1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: The better that we understand ourselves, and the better of 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: a relationship that we have with ourselves, the more able 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: we are going to be to engage in healthy relationships 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: and healthy activities and fulfilling activities in the outside world. 5 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily a body here. You are listening to 6 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: another installment of Hurdle. Moment from Hurdle. I am just 7 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: going to address this right off the bat. 8 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 3: My voice it's been in better shape before it's here. 9 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 3: It's just it's a. 10 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 2: Little struggle city from a little extra socializing. I went 11 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: down to Miami with my run club and being out 12 00:00:58,320 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: and around. 13 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 3: People for the first I'm in a long time. 14 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: Clearly spending a year plus at home alone. 15 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 3: I need to ease back into society. 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: I think this also reminds me of I recorded with 17 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: Ruth Zuckerman. She was one of the co founders of Flywheel, 18 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: and I was set to record with her. I believe 19 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: it was a day after my final class as a 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: spin instructor. This is a few years ago now, and 21 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: when I left that class, which was super emotional and 22 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: just super special, within like an hour, my voice was 23 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 2: just gone. And I was frightened because I was so 24 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: so excited to record with Ruth, and I crowdsourced my 25 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: Instagram followers for their best tips and tricks, which included 26 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: elderberry gummies and sitting in a shower and chugging water 27 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: and avoiding anything that could be dehydrating like alcohols or caffeine. 28 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: And I didn't speak. 29 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: From I want to say, noon one day through probably 30 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: noon the following day, right before I was going to 31 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: sit down with Ruth and I spoke and we were fine, 32 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: but it was super stressful. 33 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 3: So I always think. 34 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: About that when my voice is in this current state. Anyway, 35 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 2: let's talk about hurdle moment. Let's talk about what we're 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: getting into here today. Today on the show, I am 37 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: going to be chatting with doctor Amanda Fock. She is 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 2: the chief of clinical services at the Dorm, which is 39 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: a treatment community for young adults ages eighteen to thirty five. 40 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 2: I've got virtual treatment options as well as physical locations 41 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 2: in both New York and Washington, d C. We are 42 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: going to be chatting about exactly what to look for 43 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: when searching for a therapist. I know there are so 44 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: many different options out there. We address what those are, 45 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: We talk about what some of the letters at the 46 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: end of someone's name might mean how there are different 47 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: types of therapy and how to figure out which one 48 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: might be the right one for you. We talk cost 49 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 2: I mean, we really cover it all. I've had some 50 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: really special and interesting conversations on the show before about 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: therapy and what it's been like for me and opening 52 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: up about that, But I don't think I've ever dove 53 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: into the nitty gritty like this with someone to really 54 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: help someone who may have never gone to therapy before, 55 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: for someone who has done it and isn't exactly sure 56 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: what other options that may be out there, differing from 57 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: what they've already tested out. So here, I'm here to 58 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: help you out. I'm here to give you the rundown, 59 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: and I'm here to give you the resources that you 60 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: need to seek out help and take care of your 61 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: mental health because it is just so so important. 62 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 3: Make sure you're following along with Hurdle. 63 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: Over at Hurdle Podcast, I am over at Emily a 64 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: Body and with that, let's get to it. 65 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: Let's get to Hurdling. 66 00:03:53,840 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: Today. I am chatting with Amanda Fall because she is 67 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: a licensed clinical social worker. She's also chief of Clinical 68 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: Services at the Dorm. 69 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: How are you doing today. 70 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 4: I'm doing good. Thank you? How are you? 71 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: I'm so good. 72 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: I'm so excited that we're sitting down because I've been 73 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: having a lot of really awesome conversations about mental health, 74 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: the importance of mental health, how helpful it can be 75 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: to work with a therapist. But the questions that come 76 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 2: in are surrounding this topic that we're going to be 77 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 2: talking about today, which is what to look for when 78 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 2: seeking mental health treatment. So before we dive into the particulars, 79 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 2: I always love to know a little bit about the 80 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: backstory of who I am sitting down with. So talk 81 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: to me about how you got into this position with 82 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: the dorm. What is it that made you interested in 83 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 2: making this kind of work your work? 84 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: You know, My story, I think is similar to a 85 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: lot of different helping professionals or mental health professionals. We 86 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: get into the field because we want to help, because 87 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: we enjoy helping others. And typically we enjoy helping others 88 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,119 Speaker 1: because maybe we've experienced some stuff in our histories where 89 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: we have needed help and there have been significant people 90 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: in our lives who have helped and inspired us. 91 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 4: Or maybe we've had. 92 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: A family member who's needed help and through that process 93 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: have been inspired to help others. For myself, you know, 94 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: growing up being an adolescent is hard, and transitioning into 95 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: young adulthood is hard, and I'm so grateful for the 96 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: resources and the help that I had during that time 97 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: period to navigate the roller coasters and the ups and downs. 98 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: And that inspired me to work specifically with this age 99 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: group of teenagers of young adults because I think it's 100 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: only getting harder to be a young person these days, 101 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: and it's important that they have safe and pathic, compassionate 102 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: understanding helping professionals in their lives to get through the 103 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: hard times. 104 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: So for you, when you say that you were really 105 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: grateful for the resources you had, what options did you 106 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: dive into when you were growing up? 107 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: Having people outside of your family system to talk to 108 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: so trusted adults, having people outside of your friend groups, 109 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: just objective outside opinions and people to freely talk to 110 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: was so important. 111 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 4: You didn't have to censor yourself. 112 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: You didn't have to or I didn't have to censer myself. 113 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: I didn't have to worry about what I said if 114 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: it would hurt somebody's feelings. So having those individual therapists available, 115 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: I think is important. Therapy isn't just for people who 116 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: are in crisis. Therapy can be used to just help 117 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: you learn more about yourself and to grow as a 118 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: human being. And I think that we need to as 119 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: a society get away from thinking about therapy is something 120 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: that you only. 121 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 4: Do if you're an intense crisis. 122 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: Yes, of course, when you're in crisis, doing therapy is 123 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: vital to your well being. 124 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 4: But you don't have to be in crisis to just 125 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 4: want to. 126 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: Talk to somebody and to learn more about yourself and 127 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: to evolve as a human being. 128 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: Definitely not so when you were younger you sought out 129 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: in person therapy, Yes. 130 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we didn't have the world of Zoom 131 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: and all of that back then, so that was the 132 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: only option. 133 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: And reflecting on your process, do you remember meeting with 134 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: a therapist for the first time and thinking, oh, this 135 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: is definitely the person that I want to sit down with. 136 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: And do you remember it being awkward or good? What 137 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: was that like for you? 138 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 4: No? 139 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: I actually remember it being incredibly awkward and not liking 140 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: it at all. And I think that that's why it's 141 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: so important to realize that the relationship that somebody has 142 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: with a therapist is like any relationship in your life. 143 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: Some relationships work and it's a good fit, and some 144 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: relationships don't work and it's not a good fit. And 145 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: the first time I sat down with a therapist, it 146 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: did not feel like a good fit. And it was 147 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: not that therapist's fault. It was just the way that 148 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: we were together as a diad And it took a 149 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: couple of tries of meeting different people before I found 150 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: the person that was right for me, and that I 151 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: think is a very common experience that people have. And 152 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: it's important not to get frustrated in the process and 153 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: know that finding the right fit is a process. 154 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: Here we are today to talk about what to look 155 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: for when seeking mental health treatment. Where does one even begin? 156 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: Because someone says, well, you should speak with a therapist, 157 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, but what do I need to 158 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: look for? What letters should be next to their name, 159 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: what's good, what's bad? So where do we even begin? 160 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: And there are so many options right now, and I 161 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: think it makes it even more overwhelming in some ways. 162 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: Ten fifteen years ago, when there was less options and 163 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: less technology, it probably was in some ways easier, I think. 164 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: So there's a couple of different things. Of course, it 165 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: is important that whoever that you're speaking to, just like 166 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: if you were going to a doctor, you want to 167 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: make sure that they have the proper training. That said, 168 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: there's lots of different modalities that therapists are trained in, 169 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: and one modality might be really really great for person 170 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: A and might feel very invasive or ineffective for person B. 171 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,479 Speaker 1: So I think it's important for people to educate themselves 172 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: about the different types of therapists, all the different letters 173 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: behind names and what they mean, and then start thinking 174 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: about what they think what that individual thinks might be 175 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: the right fit for them. For example, if you want 176 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: somebody who is going to be much more directive and 177 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: more like an active coach in the process give you 178 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: a lot of feedback, you might want to work with 179 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: a therapist who's trained in some of the behavioral therapies 180 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: like CBT or DBT. If you want somebody who is 181 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: going to engage in more of talk therapy and maybe they're. 182 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 4: Going to be doing a little bit more. 183 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: Listening than talking themselves, you might want to look for 184 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: somebody who's analytically trained, who's a psychotherapist. So these are 185 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: the different things that I think people can a quick 186 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: Google search can can help people to understand the different 187 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:43,359 Speaker 1: types of therapies and what the different letters behind people's 188 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: names really mean in Layman's terms. 189 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's just so much to navigate in that regard. 190 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 2: So for someone who is looking to find a therapist, 191 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: aside from a googling and checking into what their specialties 192 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: may be, what's the I don't know if classic is 193 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 2: the right word, but what's the traditional amount of schooling 194 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: that someone should expect they're a therapist to have under 195 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: their belt. 196 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,599 Speaker 1: So you need to be licensed to be a therapist, 197 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: So that means that you either have had to have 198 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: gone through a master's program if you're a social worker 199 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: or a mental health practitioner or a marriage and family therapist. 200 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: If you're a psychologist, you are doing a PhD program 201 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: in order to get a license. 202 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 4: And if you are. 203 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: A psychiatrist, meaning a medical doctor, somebody who prescribes medication, 204 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: a psychologist cannot prescribe medication, a licensed clinical social worker cannot, 205 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: then you need to go through med school. So yeah, 206 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: it's complicated. The other thing that I think overly complicates 207 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: this is insurance because insurance companies might pay for one 208 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: type of therapist, but not another type of therapist. So 209 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: calling that number on the back of your insurance card 210 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: and asking for a list of providers who are in 211 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: network if you need to see somebody in network, if 212 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: you don't want to pay money out of pocket. It 213 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: gives you also a good starting point for who they 214 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: will cover. 215 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: And that's also just such I'm like sitting here shaking 216 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 2: my head, which doesn't help someone who's listening to this, 217 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: But it's so frustrating to think about the importance of 218 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: mental health and mental health care and know, especially firsthand 219 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: for me at least, that money can be such a 220 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: barrier to entry for so many and that many insurance 221 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 2: companies and policies don't even offer coverage for this type 222 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 2: of personal care and important care. 223 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: You know, it's criminal. Mental health needs are just as 224 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: important as physical health needs. And until we can begin 225 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: to look at mental illness and the same way that 226 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: we look at physical illnesses and diseases, there's going to 227 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: be a lot of people who are suffering in this 228 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: world unnecessarily. And I think it's something that a lot 229 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: of people in the mental health field are advocating for 230 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: their pending litigations against various different insurance companies about their 231 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: lack of coverage for people who truly, I mean they 232 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: need this mental health treatment. 233 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 4: It is for many life and death. 234 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: Someone decides they want to go see a therapist, they 235 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 2: have done the work and they know what type of 236 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: therapists that they think they want to see or get 237 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: to know what happens next. Where would you suggest someone 238 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 2: to go online to even seek out a professional to 239 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: start working with or is it maybe not online where 240 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: they should start. 241 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: I think we need to use all available resources just 242 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: to get names and numbers and information. Like I said, 243 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: I think calling the insurance company and finding out you know, 244 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: who's in network is an important step to take, especially 245 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: if finances are something that somebody needs that coverage to 246 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: be in network. Also going on to different websites like 247 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: Psychology Today and looking up by zip code a list 248 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: of providers if they're in network with your insurance, they 249 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: have bios that you can read about them as well. 250 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: There's also different places online that you can look to. 251 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: You know, social media is such a blessing and a curse. 252 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: The positive sides of social media is that there are 253 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: resources on there that you can join different groups and 254 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: get recommendations from people about therapists in your neighborhood or 255 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: in your community that have been you know, come highly recommended. 256 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: And then personal networks, word of mouth recommendations are really wonderful. 257 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 4: And if you. 258 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: Have friends or family members who talk openly about their 259 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: struggles with mental health or their therapeutic experiences, and you 260 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: feel comfortable trusting them with the fact that you want 261 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: to be engaging in a therapeutic relationship reaching out to 262 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: those people, they can supply sometimes some of the best recommendations. 263 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: And that's how I first found The first therapist that 264 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: I ever worked with was putting out feelers to a 265 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 2: bunch of women that I trusted and respected, and I felt, 266 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: at least this way that I knew someone I was 267 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: friendly with had had a positive experience with this person, 268 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: and it made me feel a little bit more comfortable 269 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: to get into something that maybe otherwise wouldn't have felt 270 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 2: necessarily the most comfortable. Not that I mean to your 271 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: point earlier talking about your first experience with therapy, Like 272 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: I think, no matter how you slice or dice it, it 273 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: would be a little abnormal if you walked into that 274 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: room and you were like, man, this is the most 275 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 2: This is the best I've ever felt like right off 276 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 2: the bat. 277 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: Right Yeah, also too, though, what's great about if you 278 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: feel comfortable asking friends or family members, even if you 279 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: don't want to see the therapist that your friend is 280 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: seeing because you feel like that would be a little 281 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: weird and uncomfortable, you could still call that therapist and say, 282 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: who would you recommend for me to see because they 283 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: might have good recommendations. Because oftentimes, and we do this 284 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: all the time, if we feel like a client isn't 285 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: the right fit, or if there's a conflict of interest, 286 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: maybe we're treating a family member, maybe I'm treating a friend, 287 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: I'll say, you know, this probably isn't right for me 288 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: to take on. 289 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 4: But call these five people. 290 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: They're amazing, and that's a way to then get referrals 291 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: to people who are potentially a. 292 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 4: Good fit for you. 293 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: So for someone who then goes into their first therapy session, 294 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: talk to me a little bit about what they can 295 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: expect there. 296 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: You know, I think it's going to be a little 297 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: bit different depending on on the therapist that you're seeing. 298 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: Some therapists you walk into their offices in it feels 299 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: comfortable and almost like a living room, setting with couches 300 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: and coffee tables and very peaceful and zen, or you 301 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: might be walking into more of an office space type setting, 302 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: which feels a little bit more even like you would 303 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: if you were walking into a medical appointment, more like 304 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: an institution versus a private office. 305 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 4: So in terms of the surroundings and what. 306 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: They physically feel like, that can vary very much therapist 307 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: to therapists. I think the common denominator between therapists is 308 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: that I haven't met a therapist to date who doesn't 309 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: genuinely want somebody to feel comfortable or to try to 310 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: make them feel as comfortable as is possible on that 311 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: first encounter. I think it's important to remember, though, that 312 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: it is a first encounter. So anything that you do 313 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: for the first time, like you were saying, feels weird. 314 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: Whether that's going to your first day at school, entering 315 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: a new grade, whether that's starting college and your first 316 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: day at college, whether that's taking a new exercise class 317 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: at your gym and walking into a studio where you've 318 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: never done that exercise class before. First times are always uncomfortable, 319 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: So we can expect, and somebody should expect for that 320 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: to be there, and that that's okay and that that's normal. 321 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: And I think when we normalize that and we're prepared 322 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: for that feeling, it's less overwhelming. 323 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to talk to you 324 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 2: about my sponsor at Tracksmith. Tracksmith is a Boston based 325 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 2: performance a running brand that is dedicated to the community, 326 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 2: style and culture of running, and their gear really does 327 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 2: make me feel my best. 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And that's because 357 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 2: taking Athleticgreens every single morning makes me feel like my 358 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:25,719 Speaker 2: best self. 359 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 3: It helps me feel good. 360 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: Athletic Greens is an all in one daily supplement. It's 361 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 2: got seventy five whole food sourced ingredients as well as prebiotics, probiotics, adapagens, 362 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 2: and superfoods. 363 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 3: Until I integrated this into my routine within the last. 364 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 2: Three years, I had such a haphazard vitamin routine. Nevertheless, 365 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 2: all the great stuff that you get in this all 366 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 2: in one daily scoop, I cannot recommend it enough and 367 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: that's why you've got to get in on the action. 368 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: Of course, they have an awesome offer for you. Head 369 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: on over to Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle and get 370 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 2: a three year's supply of Vitamin D as well as 371 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 2: five free travel packs with your first purchase. Again, that 372 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 2: is Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle to get your freebies, 373 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 2: no code necessary. The next question I have is something 374 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 2: in retrospect when I think about my therapy experience. My 375 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: therapist told me that she used the lay on the 376 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 2: couch method and the first time I went in to 377 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 2: speak with her and get to know her, in that 378 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 2: first session, we did not execute that. And the next 379 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 2: time I showed up again, let me just like make 380 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: this all about me, she said that to me, and 381 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 2: I mean, I did it, and I proceeded to do 382 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 2: it for the next you know, year, change that we 383 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 2: work together. But in retrospect, like I don't know if 384 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 2: that's something that's my style. So if that's if something 385 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 2: like that like that example, if that happens and that's 386 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: not your style. Is that something that could be a 387 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 2: negotiable with you and your therapist, or is that something 388 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 2: that you're like, Oh, shoot, I guess they need to 389 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 2: find a new therapist. 390 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: As a therapist, I wish that I had a crystal 391 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: ball and that I could be a mind reader like 392 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: I am not, and I it would make my job 393 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: so much easier if I could read the mind of 394 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: the person sitting. 395 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 4: Across from me. 396 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: I only know how they're feeling if they tell me 397 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: how they're feeling. I can try to ask all the 398 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: right questions, but I can't force somebody to tell me 399 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: what is going on in their mind. And we of 400 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: course want to know if you're feeling uncomfortable or if 401 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel. 402 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 4: Like the right fit. 403 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: And I think, of course that's a negotiable. Everything is negotiable. 404 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: It's a relationship like any other relationship. Now, might there 405 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: be some things that are non starters for both parties, Sure, 406 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: that's a possibility, but you don't know what is and 407 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: isn't unless you bring it up. So in the example 408 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: that you gave my dream, if I was your therapist, 409 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: would be for you to say, hey, Amanda, I don't 410 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: really feel comfortable lying down on the couch. I would 411 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: rather sit up like we did that first session. That 412 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: feels more natural to me and less intimidating. And I 413 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: think I'll be able to engage better in this process 414 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: if we do it that way. And then I would say, hmm, okay, 415 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: tell me more about that. What makes you feel uncomfortable 416 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: about lying down? And that is right material for exploration, 417 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: and we, through exploring that together could probably deepen our relationship, 418 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: which would in turn lead to deeper work. 419 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: I already feel like I'm sitting here and I'm in 420 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 2: there because it's like, well, why don't you why do 421 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 2: you want to look at me when you talk to me? 422 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 2: Like when was the last time that you were not 423 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 2: looking at someone and having a really important conversation? 424 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:53,239 Speaker 3: You know? 425 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 2: But I mean this is all relative to the conversation 426 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 2: and in the nature of the topic and finding that 427 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 2: quote unquote goldilocks to your perfect experience, so to speak. 428 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: So something we haven't covered yet that could be really helpful. 429 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: So we're talking a lot about in person therapy, but 430 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 2: as many of us have dabbled in over the last year, 431 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 2: our options now go so much further beyond that, So 432 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 2: let's dive into some of the things that's someone to 433 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 2: know if they're seeking out virtual therapy, whether that be 434 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: via a zoom or a video conversation, a phone conversation, 435 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 2: or now rising in popularity, the text based options as well. 436 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: Right, And again, the beauty and the curse of technology 437 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: is having all of these these options and recognizing that 438 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 1: maybe not all of them are the best options. They 439 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: might feel like the easier options, or the more convenient options, 440 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: or the safer options, but sometimes what's more convenient and 441 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: what feels safer isn't actually going to lead you to 442 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: be doing the deeper work. 443 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 4: So we have to look at that. 444 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: You know, we just went through clearly a unprecedented time 445 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: where we had no choice in many instances but to 446 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: engage in therapy on a virtual platform, and it was hard. 447 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: It was an adjustment for many people. I think it 448 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: was probably quite honestly the biggest adjustment for the therapists, 449 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: because we're used to being able to base our assessments 450 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: and our interventions and everything we do not just on 451 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: what people are saying from here up and not just 452 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: the way that their face is appearing on a screen. 453 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: But there's body language, there's micro communications. There's so many 454 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: things that you can't pick up online that said in 455 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: person when people are wearing masks, there's also a lot 456 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: that was hard for us to pick up on. So 457 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: we've had to, I think as therapists challenge ourselves in 458 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: a good way, because we should always be challenging ourselves 459 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: and trying to grow. But for some people, they are 460 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: still not comfortable coming and doing in person therapy. Maybe 461 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: they're immunocompromise, maybe they can't get vaccinated, or uncomfortable for 462 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: medical or religious reasons, and therapy needs to take place 463 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: in a virtual world. The same principles of looking for 464 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: a therapist still apply. You still want to be looking 465 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: at making sure that they're licensed, making sure that they 466 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 1: have the qualifications or the training that is congruent with 467 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: what you're looking for in a therapist. And there's still 468 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: that first session, and there's still that assessment period where 469 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: they're not just assessing you and what your needs are, 470 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: you're assessing the therapist and making sure that the therapist 471 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: is somebody who you think you can actually do good 472 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: work with. And we do that the same way in 473 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: a virtual platform as we do in person. 474 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 4: The texting and the snapchat. 475 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: You're seeing a lot about therapy on snapchat and visb texting. 476 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 4: I wouldn't classify that as therapy. 477 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: I think that it can provide an entree and a 478 00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: bridge into therapy. But texting or watching a Snapchat video 479 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: of a therapist is more psycho education. It's not diagnostic, 480 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 1: it's not assessment, it's not psychotherapy. 481 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 4: And I think we just need. 482 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: To be careful of what we're using those sort of 483 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: outlets for and the benefits and where the benefits sort 484 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: of cap off. 485 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 2: I think for me, I mean I recently did a 486 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: trial of talk Space, and I could see where some 487 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 2: of the benefits could be. For sure. I do think 488 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 2: that I learned so much about myself in my first 489 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 2: go about with therapy, which was in person and understanding 490 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 2: the real kinds of conversations and work that gets done 491 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 2: in that setting. It just didn't compare at all the 492 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 2: two different experiences. That's not to say that someone else 493 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 2: could use to talk Space and find it to be 494 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 2: the best thing for them, but to each their own, 495 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 2: and just like you need to do your research and 496 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 2: perhaps try out different therapists in real life, you can 497 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: also have to do that when it comes to the 498 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 2: platform that you choose to seek out your assistance with. 499 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 500 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: And the thing is, for some people, the thought of 501 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: engaging in a conventional therapeutic relationship it's too much. 502 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 4: It's not something. 503 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: That they're ready for, especially our younger population. I've noticed, 504 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: like teenagers and some young adults and snapchat or talk 505 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: space or texting, whatever it is, it is a means 506 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: to an end. They start there, start to get more 507 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: comfortable with the idea of talking to somebody or listening 508 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: to somebody, and then they think to themselves, Wow, if 509 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: I can do this, maybe I maybe I can do 510 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: therapy in a face to face setting or in a 511 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: different environment than this. And in that way, it's wonderful 512 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: because you always want to start where the client is. 513 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: You can't push the client faster than they're able to go. 514 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: And if that's where they're at, that's where they're that's 515 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: where they're at, and that's that's okay. 516 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean not too also discredit that. 517 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 2: I'm just talking about the conventional side of talk Space, 518 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 2: which would be text opportunities in text communication. I know 519 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 2: the app does offer more one on one and phone 520 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 2: consolisations and whatnot. But I'm just talking about that app 521 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: and the text only sense. So for someone now they've 522 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 2: tried this, they ask the ever lovely question, which is 523 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: how long should I be in therapy? Like and you 524 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 2: said this so well before, you don't need to be 525 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 2: in crisis to be in therapy. But for someone that 526 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 2: is newer to therapy, they've been going for a little while, 527 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 2: is there a way to know maybe, Okay, you've done this, 528 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 2: you could be good for now. 529 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 3: Should you move on? Should you just keep going? What's 530 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 3: the Is there a right or a wrong way? 531 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 4: No? 532 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,719 Speaker 1: And I wish that there was a clear answer to that, 533 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: and there's not. And I think that's frustrating to people 534 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: because when you go to the doctor and you broke 535 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: your leg, they put an X ray up on the screen, 536 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,239 Speaker 1: they show you the break, and they say you need 537 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: to wear the cast for eight weeks and then you 538 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: will be better and you no longer need the cast. 539 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: That is not the way that therapy works. And there's 540 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: no magical number prescription for some types of therapies, like 541 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: some of the behavioral therapies like DBTCBT, there's certain curriculums 542 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: and there's you know modules that last a certain number 543 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: of week, but even in those cases, you can continue 544 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: and repeat modules. Listen, I think that generally speaking, people 545 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: who are going to therapy because they are in pain, 546 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: they're in emotional pain, they are in some type of crisis. 547 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: You certainly don't want to end the process before you're 548 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: not only feeling better, but having a period of sustained 549 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: feeling better. Just because you feel better for two days, 550 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you can say, Okay, I'm done, 551 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: no more therapy. 552 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 4: You really want to see it. You want to see. 553 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: Those gains maintained over a period of time, because life 554 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: will always throw curve balls, and it's nice to have 555 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: that support when the curve balls are being thrown at you. 556 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: That said, I am a therapist. Clearly, I love therapy. Clearly, 557 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: I think therapy works. That's why I do this. I 558 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: think that people can benefit from and be engaged in therapy. 559 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: And definitely there's nothing wrong with having somebody to talk 560 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: to who is objective, who is not one of your 561 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: best friends, who is not your mother or your father, 562 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: your sister or your brother, who you can just in 563 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: an uncensored way, be yourself and learn about yourself because 564 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: life is a journey of self reflection and self awareness, 565 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: and the better that we understand ourselves and the better 566 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: of a relationship that we have with ourselves, the more 567 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: able we are going to be to engage in healthy 568 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: relationships and healthy activities and fulfilling activities in the outside world. 569 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: I don't think there needs to be an end date 570 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: to it. I think you do it if you're getting 571 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: something out of it and you're working, and you know 572 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: you can play around with different things, like maybe you 573 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: do talk therapy with a therapist for a couple of 574 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: years and you feel like you've sort of reached the 575 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: max benefit that you can with that person, and then 576 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: you want to try maybe engaging in a group like 577 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: a group therapeutic process, because that's a whole different experience. 578 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: But this idea that you know therapy has a start 579 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: point and an endpoint is to me kind of silly 580 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: because you're always looking to personally grow and be more 581 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: self aware. 582 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 2: And I like what you said about as long as 583 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 2: you really feel like you're getting something out of it. 584 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that you may not realize always 585 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: what you're getting out of it. However, I felt personally 586 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: that I got to a point with the last therapist 587 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 2: that I worked with that I was just showing up 588 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: every week and we weren't getting anywhere. 589 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 3: There wasn't much new. I mean it was over COVID. 590 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 2: We were kind of just living this groundhog's day lifestyle. 591 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: And I chose after trying to pursue that further from 592 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: pre COVID through COVID for a few months, I was like, 593 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: you know what, at this point, I'm going to hold 594 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 2: off until I feel like it's the right time to 595 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: go back to therapy. Now, when I returned to therapy, 596 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 2: something that I'm really excited to do is seek out 597 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 2: behavioral therapists, someone that is going to challenge me a 598 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 2: little bit more, that's going to perhaps flex different muscles, 599 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: so to speak, mental muscles that maybe I wasn't trying 600 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 2: to flex the first time. And in this process, I'll 601 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 2: have the opportunity just to learn more, to learn more 602 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 2: about myself, to learn what works, and then be able 603 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 2: to say, Okay, I've tried it. Either I want to 604 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 2: stick with this or maybe it's time to go back 605 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 2: to the other thing. But the best thing that I 606 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,919 Speaker 2: can say, and I'm sure that you would co sign 607 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 2: this as well, is getting over that initial hurdle of 608 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 2: just putting yourself in the room, putting yourself out there, 609 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 2: asking questions, getting a referral, making yourself a priority, which 610 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 2: is something that so many of us struggle with, and 611 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 2: understanding that, just like we said at the top of 612 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 2: this episode, mental health is just as important to learn about, 613 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 2: to dive into to take care of as it is 614 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 2: that annual doctor's visit. 615 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and also mental health and physical health are connected. 616 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: So when we take care of ourselves mentally, we are 617 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 1: going to feel better physically too, And I think that 618 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: not enough people stress that, and our medical doctors don't 619 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: necessarily stress that as much. One quick thing too that 620 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: I have to say is that there are going to 621 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: be times in the therapeutic process where things feel icky 622 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: or it feels like you're maybe not progressing in the 623 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: way that you want. 624 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 4: To or that you should. 625 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: That is also a natural part of the process and 626 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: important to talk about with your therapist. Sometimes it's because 627 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: the process has reached its natural end with that specific 628 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: person and it's time to move on to something different. 629 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 4: Sometimes it's because of something. 630 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: That's going on in the dynamic that needs to be 631 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 1: worked through and it's an opportunity to learn and to grow. 632 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: Maybe it's you're repeating a pattern that happens in all 633 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: your relationships. Once you get this close to a person, 634 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: it's time to shut down and back off, and that's 635 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: what you're doing with your therapist. But working through that 636 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: with your therapist will be a corrective emotional experience for you, 637 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: and then maybe you won't do it in your outside 638 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: relationships anymore. So just because therapy gets hard or doesn't 639 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,959 Speaker 1: feel like it's working and always mean that it's time 640 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: to end the process. So these are just the tricky 641 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: things that you work through with the therapist. 642 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 3: Just like any relationship, it's gonna take work. 643 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 2: Now. Is there anything else that you think we're leaving 644 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: out when it comes to diving into what to look 645 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 2: for when you are seeking mental health treatment, I think 646 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 2: it's just. 647 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: Really important to remember that you, as somebody who is 648 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: engaging in this courageous and brave journey, because it is 649 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: a courageous and brave journey to look itself in that 650 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: type of reflective way, can and should take the time 651 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: to really have multiple consultations, meet with a couple of 652 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: different therapists, get a sense of what it's like to 653 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: be in the room with different people, different personalities, because 654 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: that will help you to figure out who is the. 655 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 4: Right fit for you. 656 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: Now, you don't need to meet with twenty people, because 657 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: that might just be avoidance and your way of avoiding 658 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: actually starting the process. But meet with three or four 659 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: different people and have a list of questions that you 660 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: want to ask them, because it is important that you 661 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: pick the person and you're starting a relationship with somebody 662 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 1: who feels like the right fit, just like with friendships, 663 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: just like with romantic interest, you don't. 664 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:24,919 Speaker 4: Just dive in. 665 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: You actually ask questions and get to know them before 666 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: you start the process. 667 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 2: And I know earlier we did a double tap on 668 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 2: looking into your insurance to see if someone is in network. 669 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 2: But if someone is going at this out of pocket, 670 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 2: and I'm talking about like a traditional consultation, I know 671 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 2: this pricing can vary greatly depending on your geographic location 672 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 2: and what you're looking for. But is there anything of 673 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 2: any sort that we can give someone for a benchmark 674 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 2: of what this range could be. 675 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: It's such a tremendous range, especially in a place like 676 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: New York City, actually in the Northeast. The good news 677 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: is is that there's a lot of therapists in New 678 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: York City, and there's a lot of different venues like, 679 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: for instance, Postmaster's Training institutes. They have students who do 680 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: their Postmaster's training. They're already licensed, they are already able 681 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 1: to do therapy, but they're getting additional training. You can 682 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: often see one of them for free, and you're basically 683 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: seeing three therapists for the price of one because or 684 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,439 Speaker 1: for the zero price, because the student is being supervised 685 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: so heavily by some of the best in the field, 686 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: and that can be a really cost effective way to 687 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: find treatment. But the ranges, the range is large. You 688 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: can always ask about people's sliding scale fees. Oftentimes therapists 689 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: will have sliding scales based on need. Don't assume that 690 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: the most expensive therapist is the best therapist. And also 691 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: don't assume that the person who has thirty years of 692 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: experience is better than the person with five years of experience, 693 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: because that's not necessarily the case. It's important to meet 694 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 1: different people. 695 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 2: It's important to meet different people. So many helpful takeaways 696 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 2: in this episode. I wish that I had this episode 697 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 2: before I started looking for therapy. 698 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 3: Talk to us again, how do we keep up with you. 699 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 2: How do we follow along with you and the Dorm 700 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 2: give us all the details absolutely well. 701 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: We are on social media of course, Instagram and LinkedIn, 702 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: so please follow us there. We often are promoting and 703 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 1: talking about a lot of different mental health resources for 704 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: various populations, and anybody can of course always reach out 705 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: or call us on our website, you can find the 706 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: eight hundred number. Even if somebody doesn't necessarily need treatment 707 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: at the Dorm, which is a more intensive treatment facility, 708 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: we are always trying to get people connected to the 709 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: right places. So just like we talked about, even if 710 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going to use the therapist that you're 711 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: reaching out to, if it's a therapist that was recommended 712 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: to you by somebody, they can often point you in 713 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: the right direction. So if anybody ever has any questions 714 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: about where to go, who to reach out to, they 715 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: can always call us and we can point them in 716 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: the right direction. 717 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,919 Speaker 2: Doctor Falk, thank you so much, Really really appreciate your 718 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 2: input and your insight, and I know it's going to 719 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 2: help a lot of people. I'm over at Emily a 720 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 2: Body and at Hurdle Podcast Another Hurdle Conquered. 721 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:30,439 Speaker 3: Catch you guys, next time.