Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people who did cool stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy. My guest today is Sophie.
Speaker 1: Who is this weird person on the zoom call. It's
Speaker 1: just they're weird. They're just Garrison. I'm very normal, very normal.
Speaker 1: Why would you think they're weird? It was the lime
Speaker 1: green ski mask? Oh is that weird? That's pretty normal
Speaker 1: for me. Our guest today is Garrison. That's what their
Speaker 1: Zoom name says. Anyway, I can't op sick failed. Damn it.
Speaker 1: I forgot to sign out of my Zoom account. Damn it.
Speaker 1: Our producer is Sophie Lichterman. Hi, Sophie, Hi Magpie. Our
Speaker 1: audio engineers Ian. Our theme music was written for us
Speaker 1: by young woman. And this is part two of a
Speaker 1: two parter. And you know the real You are not
Speaker 1: allowed to listen to this until you listen to part one.
Speaker 1: If you do, Garrison will find you and you'll see
Speaker 1: someone with a lime green ski mask and it would
Speaker 1: be the last thing you ever see. I love that.
Speaker 1: I've gotten much more mysterious since the first part, so
Speaker 1: that's good. It's true. Yeah, that was the adjective you picked,
Speaker 1: so it makes sense. Not ever joyful. God forbid? I wait,
Speaker 1: I'm kill joy? Okay? So this yeah, well, yeah, come on,
Speaker 1: what this week we are talking about Judy fucking Berry,
Speaker 1: the earth First or and labor organizer and all around badass,
Speaker 1: who has just started organizing against logging in California by
Speaker 1: organizing the loggers themselves, and we're gonna talk about how
Speaker 1: she did that. Judy, among others, they start a chapter
Speaker 1: of the Industrial Workers of the World, the anti authoritarian
Speaker 1: radical labor Union who rule, who we talked more about
Speaker 1: last September in an episode about the Spoken Free Speech Fight,
Speaker 1: when in the nineteen tens they organized loggers in the
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest so effectively that the government started shooting them.
Speaker 1: This is, unfortunately, a decent gauge of the efficacy of
Speaker 1: your movement is the degree of violence to which the
Speaker 1: state resorts in order to suppress you. This new IWW
Speaker 1: branch has two goals. First, to bring environmental consciousness to loggers, second,
Speaker 1: to bring class consciousness to environmentalists. Well and more than that,
Speaker 1: the iw's goal. IWW's goal here is to organize the
Speaker 1: loggers just like literally organize them and fight for better
Speaker 1: working conditions. But the sort of like larger metaphorical goals
Speaker 1: are these other things, and the bringing of this organizing
Speaker 1: is to do that. And they were largely effective at this.
Speaker 1: They didn't like succeed outright, but they made a lot
Speaker 1: of progress, They made a lot of allies, and they
Speaker 1: did a lot of fucking good shit despite the fact
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of factors working to keep
Speaker 1: these two camps at odds. A couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: we talked about Chico Mendes, Brazilian organizer and the Rainforest,
Speaker 1: who went the opposite route. He went from workers organizing
Speaker 1: to environmentalism and he got shot for it. And he
Speaker 1: has this quote that I didn't include last time, mostly
Speaker 1: because I couldn't source it, and I still can't source it,
Speaker 1: but it's such a good quote that I'm going to
Speaker 1: say it anyway. He has this quote, environmentalism without class
Speaker 1: consciousness is just gardening. Yeah, it's just like not actually
Speaker 1: going to get shit done unless you fucking work together
Speaker 1: with your you know, fellow working class people. And that's
Speaker 1: what Judy Barry and her friends are on about. And
Speaker 1: they did this in a lot of ways. Judy says,
Speaker 1: the main way that they did it is just by
Speaker 1: fucking talking to people. Sometimes even the people that they
Speaker 1: were busy blockading, Like they'd be like, no, you can't
Speaker 1: go log hey, tell me about your life, tell me
Speaker 1: about how this company treats you like, and just like
Speaker 1: listen to people and hear them out and hear their
Speaker 1: problems instead of these sort of condescending city kids of
Speaker 1: fancy degrees who've never stepped into the woods trying to
Speaker 1: tell them what to think and what's to do. So
Speaker 1: they don't like show up and be like have you
Speaker 1: read the Marxism or whatever? It's not an effective strategy.
Speaker 1: She also interviewed loggers on her radio show at some
Speaker 1: point around there. Around here she gets herself a weekly
Speaker 1: radio show, the based fellow fellow podcaster we love to
Speaker 1: see it right, fellow podcaster Judy Barry. And the way
Speaker 1: that she got her podcast is much like the way
Speaker 1: that you and I got our podcast. It's not actually true.
Speaker 1: The only way I found describing how she got her
Speaker 1: podcast is someone who hates her describing it. So I
Speaker 1: don't know how true any of this is. But apparently
Speaker 1: a local radio station fired the only woman who had
Speaker 1: a talk radio station, so she stormed the radio station
Speaker 1: and wouldn't leave until justice was served. And in the
Speaker 1: end of the way that they were like, all right,
Speaker 1: we'll fine, We'll just give you a weekly talk radio show.
Speaker 1: Just like fine, fine, we'll let you all the radio,
Speaker 1: just leave us alone. Yeah, exactly. And she's actually a
Speaker 1: really good podcast I mean radio host. I listened to
Speaker 1: one of the episodes that she did where she is
Speaker 1: interviewing a logger and she's interviewing this logger because this
Speaker 1: logger wrote a letter critical of earth First and a
Speaker 1: letter also critical of old growth logging all at once,
Speaker 1: and so she was like, all right, like I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you, you know. Yeah. And so a lot of loggers,
Speaker 1: even once critical of Judy and earth First, realized they
Speaker 1: were also critical of maxim and clear cutting, and like
Speaker 1: because they're not like they're not they're they're intelligent people.
Speaker 1: It kind of threatens their job security. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: know it. And sometimes they just like, well, my backs
Speaker 1: to a wall, what am I going to do? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, but like yeah, people are like, oh, this's
Speaker 1: clear cutting. That's a bad development in things. And so
Speaker 1: Judy gave a voice to these people by publishing their
Speaker 1: writing and environmentalist newspapers, by talking to them on a
Speaker 1: radio show, and loggers who don't like, who like won't
Speaker 1: cut old growth, who won't take jobs that they involve
Speaker 1: cutting old growth, become a thing and now it's time
Speaker 1: for a personal story an do do do Do Do Do
Speaker 1: Do Doo. One time, in like two thousand and three
Speaker 1: or four something, I was working with UM. I was
Speaker 1: working at blockade, this old growth timber sale in southern Oregon,
Speaker 1: and one morning, the loggers they get around our blockade
Speaker 1: and me and two other folks are like yelling at them,
Speaker 1: probably like don't log old growth, but maybe less politely
Speaker 1: than that, I'm not sure. And one of the loggers
Speaker 1: was like, well, what the hell do you do for
Speaker 1: a living? And we like all thought for half a second,
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, I'm a landscaper. And then
Speaker 1: the other two people boy with were like, we're loggers,
Speaker 1: because that's like what people don't like a fuck tone
Speaker 1: of earth firsters are foresters, loggers, whatever, like people who
Speaker 1: work in the forest for a living care about the
Speaker 1: forest quite often, you know, and like the loggers that
Speaker 1: I was working with in that particular time were people
Speaker 1: who refused to cut old growth. So the loggers they
Speaker 1: were taken aback and they were like, you're on the
Speaker 1: wrong side, and we were like, no, you're on the
Speaker 1: wrong side. It was not a very generative conversation. And
Speaker 1: then they quit their jobs they joined us. We all
Speaker 1: had beers and became friends. That part isn't true. They
Speaker 1: went up the mountain and illegally logged old growth and
Speaker 1: we failed at stopping them. And that particular timber sale
Speaker 1: was in a state like no in state logging company
Speaker 1: would touch it because everyone who lived within a fuck
Speaker 1: one hundred miles. I was like, what the fuck, We're
Speaker 1: not gonna cut that fucking forest, like fuck's wrong with you,
Speaker 1: and so they relied on bringing people from out of state.
Speaker 1: Almost done with the personal anecdote, when I went back
Speaker 1: to work a couple of weeks later as a landscaper,
Speaker 1: my boss was like, Magbie, you don't have to come
Speaker 1: into work today. We're cutting down a tree and I
Speaker 1: don't want you to be sad. And I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm a big kid. I can handle taking down a tree.
Speaker 1: I just don't want to fucking log old growth forests
Speaker 1: or clear cut at all. It was just like a
Speaker 1: pine tree that was like maybe gonna fall in someone's
Speaker 1: house in the suburbs of Portland, like whatever that is.
Speaker 1: That is an interesting perception of people's critiques of locking.
Speaker 1: You know, it was very sweet that my boss was like,
Speaker 1: you don't have to come into work if you don't want,
Speaker 1: because we're gonna kill a tree or whatever. You know.
Speaker 1: So Judy Barry is on that tip, the whatever on
Speaker 1: the like actually cares about workers tip. She organized the
Speaker 1: Industrial Workers of the World local and soon she's like
Speaker 1: meeting with mill workers and loggers and ships separately and
Speaker 1: helping them organize. And it's not just Earth First organized
Speaker 1: as loggers. As loggers organized themselves with the help of
Speaker 1: an Earth First organizer, and they fight for union type shit.
Speaker 1: But they got to do it all secretly. Louisiana Pacific,
Speaker 1: another logging company in the area, they had a PCB spill,
Speaker 1: some toxic chemical shit poly chlorinated by fennols. No one
Speaker 1: knew that they had any recourse, but Judy filed a
Speaker 1: complaint with cal Osha and they won compensation for the
Speaker 1: workers and this helps This helps her cred, right, But
Speaker 1: all the organizing is secret because none of these logging
Speaker 1: companies are union and so they got to keep it
Speaker 1: all under wraps, which unfortunately means that's a part of
Speaker 1: her legacy that's often overlooked. And as I read, together
Speaker 1: with some workers, she got the county to claim three
Speaker 1: hundred thousand acres from Louisiana Pacific to put into public
Speaker 1: hands and keep safe. And now let's talk about the
Speaker 1: most contentious tactic around this time. We're going to talk
Speaker 1: about tree spiking. Real quick, we're gonnae into tree spiking discourse.
Speaker 1: This discourse is still going on, Margaret, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to talk about modern discourse. I don't touch modern discourse.
Speaker 1: I'm a historian, thirty year old discourse. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: newer than I like talking about. I'm so nervous to
Speaker 1: release this because it's about people I like care about
Speaker 1: and shit, you know, like I like writing about dead people.
Speaker 1: But tree spiking, I am not going to give you instructions.
Speaker 1: It is a crime and it has complicated ethics. In
Speaker 1: the early eighties, Earth First advocated tree spiking, or some
Speaker 1: individuals amongst it it or whatever the fuck. The basic
Speaker 1: idea was that a metal or ceramic rod or spike
Speaker 1: is inserted into trees and then you put up warning
Speaker 1: signs everywhere saying these trees are spiked. If a chainsaw
Speaker 1: hits a spike, it can break the chainsaw and it
Speaker 1: can endanger the wielder. There were no known sarious injuries
Speaker 1: or deaths caused by tree spiking until suddenly one day
Speaker 1: there was. In May nineteen eighty seven, a sawmill worker
Speaker 1: named George Alexander was nearly decapitated when the blade on
Speaker 1: his mill hit a spike and the blade broke. It
Speaker 1: cut his jaw on half. This was not an Earth
Speaker 1: First related spike. It wasn't an old growth tree. It
Speaker 1: also was added after the log was cut. It was
Speaker 1: like while it was waiting in the yard at the mill.
Speaker 1: Because tree spiking has done by the environmentalist, was done
Speaker 1: on public lands with huge warning signs and announcements, because
Speaker 1: the goal was to minimize the economic viability of a
Speaker 1: public timber sale project, to bring it down below its
Speaker 1: like threshold of value. These old growth forests and these
Speaker 1: private forests, it wouldn't have made much sense because the
Speaker 1: economics of private timber is completely fucking different. Least of
Speaker 1: all to do after the logs are cut, because at
Speaker 1: that point you're not saving a tree. And it was
Speaker 1: some twelve inch diameter tree. They don't know who spiked it.
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of people guessing there was like a
Speaker 1: crank in the area who very clearly spiked the trees
Speaker 1: in his property. I say crank, but this thing that
Speaker 1: he did, like he spiked the trees in his property
Speaker 1: because it was right next to private land and they
Speaker 1: were always known for like famously cutting the trees on
Speaker 1: the other side of the fucking like cutting other people's
Speaker 1: trees illegally and just getting away with it. So he
Speaker 1: spiked all of his own trees and like put up
Speaker 1: signs and ship and so I spiked all these So
Speaker 1: it probably wasn't even him. I don't fucking know. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I can spike this tree. As soon
Speaker 1: as this happened, some North Californian and Southern Oregon Earth
Speaker 1: First chapters renowned spiking as a tactic, and Judy Berry
Speaker 1: is a big part of this renunciation and being her,
Speaker 1: She tracked down the injured worker, interviewed him, and published
Speaker 1: his words in a local newspaper and the Earth First
Speaker 1: Journal and later the Industrial Workers of the World's website.
Speaker 1: The IWW's website put it up. George Alexander was a
Speaker 1: twenty three year old. He was a second generation lumber
Speaker 1: worker and he had the most dangerous job in the mill.
Speaker 1: He was the off bearer who make the first cuts
Speaker 1: through the log. He used a giant bandsaw designed to
Speaker 1: cut through old growth redwood, and somewhat regularly, the off
Speaker 1: bearer hits metal pieces like from old fences and old
Speaker 1: nails and shit, because there are just pieces of metal
Speaker 1: and trees from people like fucking nailing as signed to
Speaker 1: a tree or whatever the fuck you know. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it's fairly regularly that the band saw blade hits these things,
Speaker 1: lose his teeth and so the workers wear like face masks.
Speaker 1: George feels quite strongly that the company and its disregard
Speaker 1: for its workers safety is to blame. He was working
Speaker 1: with a blade that had already started to wobble and
Speaker 1: had cracks, so he complained about it and his bosses
Speaker 1: were like, get the fuck back to work, We don't
Speaker 1: give a shit about you. He thought about not going
Speaker 1: back to work because it was very dangerous, but he
Speaker 1: had a pregnant wife. It was the only work he
Speaker 1: knew and he didn't have a union. So the bandsaw
Speaker 1: hit a spike and eleven inch nail and the blade broke,
Speaker 1: and it almost killed him. It cut his jugular, it
Speaker 1: ripped out twelve of his teeth as he lay on
Speaker 1: the ground dying. I'm going to quote him about what
Speaker 1: happened next. I knew I was dying, and all I
Speaker 1: could think was Dick Edwards, the boss, and all the
Speaker 1: shit he gave me when I complained about the saw.
Speaker 1: I tried to get up, but they pushed me back down.
Speaker 1: I tried to beckon Edwards so he could come close
Speaker 1: enough for me to get my hands around his throat
Speaker 1: in a death grip. If I had to die, I
Speaker 1: wanted to take that bastard with me, and so his
Speaker 1: fellow workers saved his life. Someone stopped the bleeding, literally
Speaker 1: holding his veins together for a fucking hour before the
Speaker 1: ambulance arrived, while others used to blowtorch to free him
Speaker 1: from the twelve foot section of saw that was wrapped
Speaker 1: around him. From his hospital bed, he made his position clear.
Speaker 1: I am against tree spiking, but I don't like clear
Speaker 1: cutting either, And this is the only documented injury as
Speaker 1: a result of tree spiking. It's enough from my point
Speaker 1: of view. I guess I am or any of this
Speaker 1: course it feels so clear to me that the powers
Speaker 1: that ought not be are working really hard to keep
Speaker 1: the working class from uniting. And to me, this is
Speaker 1: a very resonant story about I don't know about this
Speaker 1: fucking guy, you know. Yeah, But as hard as she
Speaker 1: and some others were working to try and unite the
Speaker 1: working class, most loggers did not really like her or
Speaker 1: earth First at all, and you get this whole fucking
Speaker 1: culture war thing. Northern California, most towns were either logging
Speaker 1: towns or hippie towns. A small handful, because of hard
Speaker 1: organizing work, managed to have sort of a piece between
Speaker 1: the two, and the owners started organizing two And this
Speaker 1: is a recurring theme on this show. The workers get
Speaker 1: a union, why doesn't the right wing management get a union?
Speaker 1: Or in this case, to save the trees and treat
Speaker 1: workers okay group as a movement. Why can't the fuck
Speaker 1: the trees, fuck the workers group have a movement, so
Speaker 1: they make themselves a movement. Nineteen eighty eight, you get
Speaker 1: what's called the wise use movement, or it gets its name,
Speaker 1: or it became more popular. I don't know. It's like
Speaker 1: fucking rid. A lot of different versions about exactly when
Speaker 1: it came into being, but we're going in nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 1: It's a pro extraction movement with a clever name. It's
Speaker 1: not about wise use, it's about fucking use up everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it was wise used to be chill. We talked
Speaker 1: on the Chico Mendes episode about how the workers in
Speaker 1: the Brazilian rainforests they fought for extractive reserves where the
Speaker 1: forest is kept intact but rubbers gathered naturally and buy
Speaker 1: in large Earth first, even with its no compromise attitude,
Speaker 1: wasn't actually entirely against logging. They put together a ten
Speaker 1: part program about how to do logging sustainably, which includes
Speaker 1: shit like no clear cutting, no old growth logging, You
Speaker 1: must leave wilderness corridors for wildlife to move through. Million
Speaker 1: jobs must be kept, local logged areas, can't be turned
Speaker 1: into non forested areas, et cetera. Super fucking chill. It
Speaker 1: sounds like an actual wise use exactly. And that's something
Speaker 1: that like it would have taken me a while to
Speaker 1: understand when I first got involved, is that that is
Speaker 1: still part of a no compromise attitude, right, because it
Speaker 1: is not a compromise to allow humans to be part
Speaker 1: of the ecosystem. Yeah, humans have been building shelters out
Speaker 1: of trees for yeah, tens of thousands of years. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The wise use movement instead was the owner of big
Speaker 1: evil companies trying to get ranchers, farmers, miners, property owners
Speaker 1: at VARs et cetera to fight against environmentalists and to
Speaker 1: say that environmental restrictions were attack on the cultural values
Speaker 1: of rural people. It's what we call AstroTurf, a fake
Speaker 1: grassroots movement, and sadly it's been very effective. Of course,
Speaker 1: every time some rich kid from the city tells a
Speaker 1: lag or some ignorant shit, the wise use movement grows
Speaker 1: some wings. I don't know whatever, Yeah, you just you
Speaker 1: just set the ecological movement back decades, you know, twenty
Speaker 1: year old from Seattle. Well, and it's like, I mean
Speaker 1: I also get why people are like, fuck you don't
Speaker 1: cut trees. I like totally get that. Yeah, but like,
Speaker 1: fuck your bosses for putting us in this situation. Is
Speaker 1: what we'll actually get us out of this ship. The
Speaker 1: wise use movement people they use yellow ribbons as their sign,
Speaker 1: which is funny because like fucking ten fifteen years later,
Speaker 1: me and my friends are ripping yellow ribbons off of
Speaker 1: cars as part of the you know, stop the invasion
Speaker 1: of Iraq and Afghanistan thing. And they tried to get
Speaker 1: the sawmill operator, the one who had been hurt almost
Speaker 1: killed by the by the spike. They tried to get
Speaker 1: him to go on tour denouncing earth First, and he refused.
Speaker 1: And I am guessing that Judy and other organizers making
Speaker 1: it clear that they were in solidarity with him is
Speaker 1: why he didn't go on tour denouncing earth First. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is the one thing I know about this tree
Speaker 1: specky incident is that the person did not turn into
Speaker 1: like an anti earth First campaign or afterwards. They actually
Speaker 1: were kind of chill, right, Yeah. And once he's healed,
Speaker 1: his bosses put him back on the night shift. They like,
Speaker 1: he wasn't on the knight shift, but they're like, fuck,
Speaker 1: you're going on the night if we don't like you.
Speaker 1: And then they laid him off when the mill closed
Speaker 1: because they clear cut everything. His quote about it was
Speaker 1: LP Louisiana Pacific is just sorry I didn't die wild. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I believe it. I believe that they were like, fuck,
Speaker 1: we almost had a mar or why do you have
Speaker 1: to fucking survive. You know. Yeah, they could have like
Speaker 1: drafted like legislation or something. Yeah, they could have. They
Speaker 1: could have tried to hold a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if they could use this person's like dead memory to
Speaker 1: continue their extraction. But fortunately, since he was able to
Speaker 1: speak for himself, he was able to be like, fucktree spikes,
Speaker 1: fuck clearcuts. You know, shit is heating up earth versus
Speaker 1: blockading the shit out of stuff. Loggers are getting angrier.
Speaker 1: Judy and some of the others are running interference, like, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe you should have better conditions. But workers at this
Speaker 1: point are like shooting shotguns into the air. They knock
Speaker 1: a fifty year old person out like out colds by
Speaker 1: punching her in the face. People are like running into
Speaker 1: the crowd with chainsaws that are running like what the fuck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're fucking mad, and they hang Judy Berry in effigy.
Speaker 1: They hit people with axe handles. It's like a rough
Speaker 1: time and it's like yeah, and they're they're on the
Speaker 1: non violence thing right as a strategic move and they
Speaker 1: hold to it, and you know, it is one way
Speaker 1: to build a movement is strategic non violence. And during
Speaker 1: all this, the FEDS are infiltrating like crazy. It's the
Speaker 1: whole co intel Pro handbook for anyone who hasn't listened
Speaker 1: to anything that's happened fifty years ago. Co intel pros
Speaker 1: the counter intelligence program the FBI, basically disrupting leftist organizations
Speaker 1: all throughout the sixties and frankly to the present day.
Speaker 1: They're like in this case, they're sending letters claiming to
Speaker 1: be one earth First organizer to another, like talking shit.
Speaker 1: They're sending in spies and provocateurs. They're using their spies
Speaker 1: to start paranoia by accusing other people of being spies
Speaker 1: and provocateurs. Which is why it's always dangerous to talk
Speaker 1: about co intel pro is because you need to make
Speaker 1: sure people know that one of the things you have
Speaker 1: to not do is talk about co intel pro so
Speaker 1: much that you then spread this. Yeah, but it isn't
Speaker 1: stopping them. Co intel pro does not stop Earth First.
Speaker 1: I like to think that their horizontal organizing structure help
Speaker 1: people like a lot in a lot of ways, Like
Speaker 1: since they're all equals, they're able to kind of more
Speaker 1: be like hey, no, I didn't send you that letter,
Speaker 1: you know. And they have a culture that despite all
Speaker 1: of these like these evolutions and arguments and people leaving
Speaker 1: managed to overall not turn into hatred and actual fighting.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's my idealized take on it from like
Speaker 1: talking to folks, but it's what I believe. And the
Speaker 1: loggers are fucking mad. They're mad that they can't get
Speaker 1: the same deals that you all can get by doing God.
Speaker 1: The ads are getting like worse, Like there's an ad break.
Speaker 1: I thought, I was like, what type of deal is
Speaker 1: Earth First half? They're not getting paid like sales on
Speaker 1: bumper sticker. Earth First mostly sells bumper stickers. I think
Speaker 1: at this point, t shirts you can, you can, you
Speaker 1: can subscribe to the journal. That's true, there's an actual ad.
Speaker 1: Go subscribe to yourth first journal. Anyway, Um there's stuff
Speaker 1: you can buy stuff if you want. I don't fucking care.
Speaker 1: This episode brought to you by Green Ballaclavas. Get yours today, yeah, otherwise,
Speaker 1: otherwise Garrison's gonna be real easy to pick out. If
Speaker 1: you don't get over what happened. If you don't get
Speaker 1: a lime green balaclava, Garrison's fucked. You don't want Garrison
Speaker 1: to get fucked. Do you get a lime green balaklava?
Speaker 1: And we're back and just like the loggers are mad.
Speaker 1: I hope that you all got everything you needed out
Speaker 1: of that. Okay. So, in nineteen eighty nine, a logging
Speaker 1: truck slammed at a Judy Barry's car and sent six
Speaker 1: people to the hospital, including four children. And it was
Speaker 1: a logging truck that Earth First had been blockading less
Speaker 1: than twenty four hours earlier. It was very clearly a
Speaker 1: targeted attack, and we have reason to believe that this
Speaker 1: was like an intentional, intentional thing. Yeah, there's like no
Speaker 1: particular reason to believe otherwise, Okay, unless you're the cops,
Speaker 1: in which case you're sure must just be a traffic accident,
Speaker 1: even though like this is literally I think I think
Speaker 1: they got like photos of being like this is the
Speaker 1: same truck. You know, the cops never investigated at all.
Speaker 1: Then in nineteen ninety what gets called the timber Wars
Speaker 1: are heating up. California was set to vote on Proposition
Speaker 1: one thirty, which is basically a bunch of restrictions on
Speaker 1: logging in California, including a bunch of money for the
Speaker 1: state to buy old growth from logging companies, and it
Speaker 1: include a compensation for loggers who would lose their work
Speaker 1: as a result, because the people who make this actually
Speaker 1: care to some degree I don't. I don't know as
Speaker 1: much the ins and outs of who wrote position thirty.
Speaker 1: It becomes a culture war issue. Yeah, culture war. The
Speaker 1: thing that is designed is set one half of the
Speaker 1: working class against the other half. A lot of it
Speaker 1: was framed around shit like save the spotted owl, right,
Speaker 1: which is you know, was not doing so well, and
Speaker 1: that lives in old growth redwoods, especially in the snags
Speaker 1: and the dead trees. So laggers started wearing shirts that
Speaker 1: were like spotted owl tastes like chicken. I could just
Speaker 1: imagine Twitter during this time. I mean, but this, this,
Speaker 1: this is such an this is such a I mean,
Speaker 1: this tactic has used all the time still, but yeah,
Speaker 1: reducing these things into little like little like like uh
Speaker 1: you know, just trying to like annoy the other person
Speaker 1: with with like distasteful jokes back and forth. And that's
Speaker 1: what this. These types of movements get like reduced to yep.
Speaker 1: And it's a very effective tactic, and it's it's fucking
Speaker 1: terrible yep. But these clear cutting companies, they're like, I
Speaker 1: don't even want to calm logging companies at this point,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh shit, we might not be able to
Speaker 1: clear cut come, so we should clear cut right the
Speaker 1: fuck now, just a lot, just clear cut the shit
Speaker 1: out of everything, anticipating this earth first and others they're like, well,
Speaker 1: we just have to hold them off until the election,
Speaker 1: you know, until we can vote for this proposition, save
Speaker 1: as much for us as we can. So they call
Speaker 1: for a summer of mass civil disobedience, non violent resistance,
Speaker 1: and they call it Redwood Summer. This is in the
Speaker 1: early nineties. This is nineteen ninety okay, Yeah, And I've
Speaker 1: had it described to me as Judy Berry's brain child.
Speaker 1: I've also read an article from someone saying that a
Speaker 1: different person came up with it. But either way, Judy
Speaker 1: Berry's one of the primary organizers. She wasn't the sole organizer,
Speaker 1: but which is a big part of it. Everyone, especially students,
Speaker 1: since you like don't have to do shit during the summer,
Speaker 1: please come here and chain yourself to shit and sit
Speaker 1: in trees and blockade roads and do all that stuff, please,
Speaker 1: or we're fucked. It's based on Mississippi sm from nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty four from the civil rights era. See our episode
Speaker 1: about the Armed Civil Rights Defense for more from that
Speaker 1: air of organizing, and it is earth first first mass action.
Speaker 1: Maybe I already said that. I don't know Judy Barry's
Speaker 1: she's organizing it as well as her musical and at
Speaker 1: some points romantic partner, a guy named Darryl Churney. He
Speaker 1: writes songs that annoy right wing people, kind of like
Speaker 1: what you're just saying, how things get done to annoy
Speaker 1: the other side. He has songs like Jesus was a mushroom,
Speaker 1: Will the Fetus be aborted? And spike a tree for Jesus? Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, I mean, I'm sure the songs were
Speaker 1: pretty funny. That's funny. They're not friend makers, no, no,
Speaker 1: there there wants to put on with the people who
Speaker 1: are already on your side and laugh as you're liked,
Speaker 1: like an afternoon or night together. Yeah. And so they're
Speaker 1: running around the country and playing shows and recruiting people
Speaker 1: to come out. But meanwhile, Judy is getting more and
Speaker 1: more death threats. Uh, they're sending people are sending her
Speaker 1: photos of her playing a show that someone took while
Speaker 1: stalking her, like crosshairs drawn over her face. She showed
Speaker 1: all this shit to the cops and the cops were like,
Speaker 1: we don't care. Look, I'll tell you what. We'll investigate
Speaker 1: if they kill you. How about that? I mean, it's
Speaker 1: also important today like this was like this was before
Speaker 1: like internet death threats. This was like yet yet threats
Speaker 1: were like a lot there was a lot more threat
Speaker 1: implied with a death threat, I know. And you have
Speaker 1: to like be careful around like actual like it was
Speaker 1: kind of before DNA forensics, but like actual like forensic shit,
Speaker 1: because you're sending like physical things in the mail, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And on May twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, Judy and Darryl
Speaker 1: were in Oakland. They're staying at a Seeds of Peace house.
Speaker 1: This isn't the same organization as the current really cool
Speaker 1: organization called Seeds of Peace. This is an earlier Seeds
Speaker 1: of Piece, really cool organization of rad hippies. They head
Speaker 1: out in Judy's car, Suberu station Wagon because of course
Speaker 1: it's a super station wagon. They're going to drive to
Speaker 1: Santa Cruz to play a show and recruit some college kids.
Speaker 1: They get in the car, they throw a guitar in
Speaker 1: the fiddle on the back seat. They start to drive
Speaker 1: off and a bomb explodes under the driver's seat and
Speaker 1: fucks them both the hell up, real fucking bad, especially Judy.
Speaker 1: It shatters her pelvis and her tailbone. She's in paying
Speaker 1: the rest of her life and has greatly reduced the mobility.
Speaker 1: The FBI was there within twenty five minutes, because discovery
Speaker 1: shows record of them talking to Oakland PD or something
Speaker 1: within twenty five minutes after the explosion. Probably they were
Speaker 1: there way sooner, within minutes or seconds. Even though the
Speaker 1: Bay Area headquarters of the FBI is in San Francisco
Speaker 1: on the other side of the fucking Bay. It sounds
Speaker 1: like they were just feeling like the Judy says, it's
Speaker 1: almost like they were waiting around the corner with their
Speaker 1: hands over their ears. To spoiler it, we don't know
Speaker 1: who bombs you and Daryl. We might not ever find out.
Speaker 1: We do know that the FBI intentionally and maliciously bungled
Speaker 1: their investigation of the bombing. That was proven in court.
Speaker 1: It's quite probable the FBI was directly involved in the
Speaker 1: assassination attempt, and is generally accepted within the movement that
Speaker 1: the FBI was directly involved in the assassination attempt. There's
Speaker 1: a chance that it wasn't sure, but we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1: The car explodes, they go to the hospital, They get
Speaker 1: arrested in the hospital on the charge of bombing themselves. Ah. Yes,
Speaker 1: that classic Earth First caper of blowing themselves up. Specifically,
Speaker 1: they claim that they were transporting a bomb when it
Speaker 1: accidentally detonated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Immediately the press is ready
Speaker 1: to jump on this accusation, and the headlines are basically like,
Speaker 1: dumb bitch blows self up, you know, looking vultures pieces
Speaker 1: of shit. Yeah, press somehow right away has a picture
Speaker 1: of her holding an oozy. Jesus. I've read this part
Speaker 1: described a bunch of ways, but as best as I
Speaker 1: can piece together, there was a guy in the movement
Speaker 1: they probably shouldn't have trusted. One day, they're all hanging
Speaker 1: out and he's like, Hey, you know it would be funny.
Speaker 1: I got an oozy in the trunk of my car.
Speaker 1: Why don't we all take photos with it? Wow? What
Speaker 1: a great idea random dude. And I think he was, like,
Speaker 1: actually part of the movement. I'm just specifically not naming
Speaker 1: him because there's a chance that he's an infiltrator, but
Speaker 1: I don't know that, and so I don't want to
Speaker 1: name him. Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. But and
Speaker 1: it's possible that they were like, oh, that would be funny.
Speaker 1: We'll use it as an album cover photo because Darryl
Speaker 1: Churney is working on an album with the kind of
Speaker 1: sick title. They sure don't make hippies like they used to.
Speaker 1: I mean, that would be such a metal cover. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so why not have a photo of a hippie with
Speaker 1: an oozy? So they take photos lo and behold the photos,
Speaker 1: which only that one guy had. What a weird coincidence
Speaker 1: they end up mailed to the media as soon as
Speaker 1: the bomb goes off. That is m curious. And I
Speaker 1: relate this story not because I want to point fingers,
Speaker 1: but for the same reason it was related to me
Speaker 1: when I first joined the movement. If a guy gets
Speaker 1: you high and it's like, yo, let's go take pictures
Speaker 1: of my illegal gun, wouldn't that be funny? The answers no,
Speaker 1: just say no, yeah, just say no to posing with
Speaker 1: illegal firearms. My opinion about posing with firearms period is like,
Speaker 1: not incredibly positive, but I understand the like necessity of
Speaker 1: why people choose to make certain decisions or whatever, but
Speaker 1: don't pose with a fucking easy, don't take maybe don't
Speaker 1: take a picture with it. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't take
Speaker 1: a picture with an illegal firearm, and so like, and
Speaker 1: so just don't trust the person who has you take
Speaker 1: this picture. Don't like point and be like that guy's
Speaker 1: a fed, because in general we should judge actions like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're in a movement with this, and this guy wants
Speaker 1: me to take pictures of an ouzy. That's an action
Speaker 1: that isn't good, rather than that's a man who is
Speaker 1: an X you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, It's just a
Speaker 1: way to kind of minimize the way that kentto pro
Speaker 1: tears as a part through paranoia. But there's a picture
Speaker 1: of her with a Newsy and the bomb entirely fucks
Speaker 1: up the solidarity work she's been doing building a bridge
Speaker 1: between environmentalists and lumber workers. Not only she's a hippie,
Speaker 1: but she's a bomber, right, she's trying to fu kill you,
Speaker 1: you loggers. And so the culture work continues, and during
Speaker 1: the first several months, the Feds investigate zero people who
Speaker 1: aren't Judy and Darryl. That doesn't feel like a very
Speaker 1: very solid investigation. I don't know. I've done a few
Speaker 1: investigations in my lifetime, usually usually against Nazis. And uh
Speaker 1: that that doesn't sound like solid investigative practis to me. No, No, again,
Speaker 1: proven in court to be malicious. Yeah, after two months
Speaker 1: they give up because and no charges are filed because
Speaker 1: there's literally zero physical evidence that the bomb was THEIRS.
Speaker 1: There is a lot of evidence the FBI and Oakland
Speaker 1: PD directly lied about the physical facts in the case,
Speaker 1: like they claimed the bomb was on the back seat
Speaker 1: when it was under the driver's seat. That kind of shit.
Speaker 1: It's worth knowing about the bomb's construction just so you know.
Speaker 1: There really isn't any chance that it was THEIRS. Um,
Speaker 1: there's no like wink wink, nudge, nudge. They were secretly
Speaker 1: weather underground and we all don't want them to it's
Speaker 1: it was not their fucking bomb, No they yeah it was.
Speaker 1: It was a pipe bomb, and it was an anti
Speaker 1: personnel bomb. It was wrapped in finishing nails as shrapnel,
Speaker 1: and the supposed use that the Earth First would have
Speaker 1: been using it for was property destruction, right, not a
Speaker 1: personnel attack. So already fucking out window, that's not a
Speaker 1: property destruction weapon. Yeah. It also had three different switches
Speaker 1: that all had to be activated for it to go off.
Speaker 1: First was a regular switch like a I don't fucking
Speaker 1: know they made it, but you know, you switch a thing,
Speaker 1: and then that triggered a watch countdown for twelve hours.
Speaker 1: And then at the end of it was a motion
Speaker 1: sensor basically a steel ball bearing that completes the circuit.
Speaker 1: So as soon as the car moves that it blows exactly,
Speaker 1: But it doesn't blow up if the car moves when
Speaker 1: it's near the bomber, because the bomber now is twelve
Speaker 1: hours to get away. Twelve hours. Yeah, so not the kind.
Speaker 1: It is a bomb that is meant to blow up
Speaker 1: in a car, not a bomb that is meant to
Speaker 1: blow up at a sawmill or whatever the fuck that
Speaker 1: they claim. You're not throwing the bomb like like a grenade.
Speaker 1: It's not yet. Yeah, So since they couldn't charge Judy
Speaker 1: for blowing herself up, the Fed's brought in their investigation. Finally,
Speaker 1: you're excited. Are they gonna do good? You think they're
Speaker 1: gonna take edge of my seat? They use it as
Speaker 1: a fishing expedition for more information better at first activists,
Speaker 1: I bet they do. Around this time, a newspaper gets
Speaker 1: a letter taking or sponsibility for the action. It's almost
Speaker 1: certainly fake. Yeah, it was probably sent by the bomber
Speaker 1: bombers to throw people off the scent. Or it was
Speaker 1: a random crank who wanted to take responsibility for something
Speaker 1: they didn't do. And the letter was like I wanted
Speaker 1: to kill her because God told me too, because she
Speaker 1: supports abortion or whatever. But it's actually worth quoting because
Speaker 1: it's kind of a funny letter. I saw Satan's flame
Speaker 1: shoot forth from her mouth, her eyes, my ears, proving forever, Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: come on, Satan's flame shooting from her mouth, Yeah, her
Speaker 1: ears and her eyes, yeah, proving forever that this was
Speaker 1: no godly woman, no ruth full of obedience to procreate
Speaker 1: and multiply the children of Adams throughout the world, as
Speaker 1: is God's will. There's a lot of capital letters in here.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be shocked to know how I bet let
Speaker 1: the woman learn in silence, with all subjugation, all subjection.
Speaker 1: But I suffered not a woman to teach, nor to
Speaker 1: use surp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Speaker 1: Timothy to one great incredible Yeah, is that is that
Speaker 1: a first or second? Timothy too. I don't know, two
Speaker 1: coal and one that's what I got. Well, that's well, yes,
Speaker 1: that is all right. I don't know. I'll look it
Speaker 1: up later, just just so I have the personal assurance
Speaker 1: of which book of tidy I know. I really appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, later.
Speaker 1: DNA evidence from the envelope reveals that it had two
Speaker 1: people's DNA on it, Like I think one person licked
Speaker 1: the stamp and another person licked the envelope. That's wow,
Speaker 1: what a horrible decision. You know. Well, okay, to be fair,
Speaker 1: I think DNA forensics wasn't a thing when this happened.
Speaker 1: It got DNA in like twenty ten. I'm making twelve
Speaker 1: or something it was. Yeah, it was probably the two thousands,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, and it only happened once Daryl
Speaker 1: Cherney and some other people like insisted on trying to
Speaker 1: actually figure out who the fuck it bombed them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So FEDS show up in northern California and they go
Speaker 1: to the newspapers and they're like, all right, give us
Speaker 1: the letters to your editor, because you know they're trying
Speaker 1: to do an investigation. Give us all the letters to
Speaker 1: the editor in support of Earth First so we can
Speaker 1: match typewriters or whatever the fuck forensics they do. It's
Speaker 1: really transparent. They're not looking at the letters the editor
Speaker 1: against the person who got bombed, even though a letter
Speaker 1: of the editor taking fucking credit had just fucking come through.
Speaker 1: This is the same thing with like I don't know this.
Speaker 1: This is something that that was definitely talked about a
Speaker 1: lot in Atlanta with how people are trying for how
Speaker 1: the state's trying to use like domestic terrorism charges and
Speaker 1: like any like credence or extra extra ability you give
Speaker 1: the state to like get cracked down against like like
Speaker 1: right wing errors or like like like you know, like
Speaker 1: the Capitol rioters whatever, Like any anything you give them,
Speaker 1: it's gonna get used so much more against any any
Speaker 1: type of like left of ye like environmental social justice,
Speaker 1: like like racial justice movement. It's all every sing every
Speaker 1: single time, all of the domestic terrorism gun laws. Great example,
Speaker 1: the domestic terrorism charges being used in Atlanta stem from
Speaker 1: a law created in part response to Dylan Roof. It's
Speaker 1: every every every every time you give them like a
Speaker 1: little a little bit, it's always it's always gonna get
Speaker 1: used so much so much worse. Yeah, against people who
Speaker 1: actually like threaten the status quo of how the state
Speaker 1: wants things to run yep, which in general in general
Speaker 1: isn't the right wing. So the FBI never actually investigates
Speaker 1: the bombing. They just don't. And besides, it would be
Speaker 1: a spider Man pointing itself mean moment if they investigated
Speaker 1: the bombing. Because here's my favorite part, my favorite, I mean,
Speaker 1: I hate everything about this. A month or so before
Speaker 1: or the bombing, the FBI ran a bomb school locally
Speaker 1: on car bombing, on specifically how to respond to car bombs.
Speaker 1: They had it on Louisiana Pacific property, the company that
Speaker 1: hates Earth First. They practice blowing up cars with car bombs,
Speaker 1: and the security personnel from Louisiana Pacific or invited to
Speaker 1: attend the event quote as security since it was their property.
Speaker 1: So were the FBI trying to teach them how to
Speaker 1: blow up cars? Like? Is that? Man? I am not.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's no way to yeah, Like, theoretically
Speaker 1: it is to teach FEDS how to respond to car bombing. Sure,
Speaker 1: what you all should respond to is the subliminal programming
Speaker 1: of advertising. Sure, fuck it and we're back. I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed the hypnotode I'm older everyone, God damn it. I yeah,
Speaker 1: you are much much older. It's an advertising thing from
Speaker 1: I think future rama where there's just a fucking wrong
Speaker 1: Trump is a is A is a TV shark fuck upon,
Speaker 1: I was like, how long does it take for them
Speaker 1: to remind us that we're old? Like you did? You
Speaker 1: did so well over ninety minutes. This is a record.
Speaker 1: This is a gear record. I'm proud of you. You
Speaker 1: didn't even fall for the bait. When I started off
Speaker 1: by saying how old I was in nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 1: I know, I refused once you said what I was
Speaker 1: getting get involved in two thousand and four, I refused
Speaker 1: saying how old I was. Yeah, which is funny because
Speaker 1: the people liked talk to you about this or I'm
Speaker 1: I'm the gear to anyway, Yeah, because they're all much
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So so the FBI has
Speaker 1: bomb school and bomb school the security of the Love
Speaker 1: for Company just watching the whole time. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: there's even like some oddly specific things like during bomb school,
Speaker 1: they're like and most car bombs are actually not inside
Speaker 1: the passenger cabin, they're under the car or in the hood.
Speaker 1: But then two of the three cars that they blew up,
Speaker 1: they put them in the past in the passenger compartment,
Speaker 1: and that is where the bomb was in Judy Barry's case.
Speaker 1: Also the passenger compartment like underneath the driver. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well passenger compartment means like not outside the car, but
Speaker 1: inside the car, you know. Okay, And the guy who
Speaker 1: ran the bomb school and four guests who showed up
Speaker 1: to respond immediately after their car blew up in Oakland,
Speaker 1: why it was the guy who ran the car bomb
Speaker 1: school and four of his students, at which he said
Speaker 1: he told his students, this is your final exam on
Speaker 1: the scene. Okay, this is so weird. This is so weird.
Speaker 1: This is like, this is so weird. It's so fucking transparent.
Speaker 1: And Judy described it once, well, you're either a conspiracy
Speaker 1: believer or a coincidence believer. I mean, that's what I'd
Speaker 1: tell myself every time I look at a mountain. But
Speaker 1: this is this, this, this is a lot this is
Speaker 1: a lot more intense. Yeah. The chief investigator Okay, And
Speaker 1: I've read actually two different descriptions to who the chief
Speaker 1: investigator was, but I'm going with one of them. I
Speaker 1: think there's different types of investigators at different points. I
Speaker 1: don't know. A man named Richard held who headed Cointel
Speaker 1: proma great already off to a great start. Yeah he
Speaker 1: was personally responded, this is the guy who I think
Speaker 1: was personally responsible for the arrest of Geronimo Pratt and
Speaker 1: Leonard Peltier. Um, yeah, let's let's let's get him on
Speaker 1: the case. He'll start that one on the case. So
Speaker 1: that's bad. After the bombing, with her unable to do
Speaker 1: as much organizing, more women stepped up to take her place.
Speaker 1: Just an astounding number of women showed up to organize
Speaker 1: from all over the West Coast to make sure that
Speaker 1: Redwood Summer happened. And they're stepping up into roles as
Speaker 1: needed because not only is Judy busy, but so we're
Speaker 1: basically like mostly existing organizers are busy because they're busy
Speaker 1: now supporting Darryl and her on medical and legal fronts,
Speaker 1: because you know, they're and like all the press shit
Speaker 1: about like Earth First is mad bombers or like like,
Speaker 1: from now, it's so obvious it wasn't Judy Berry blowing
Speaker 1: herself up, right, But at the time, they don't have
Speaker 1: any of that information. They don't have any of the
Speaker 1: publicly accessible documents they don't have. Yeah, it's right, story,
Speaker 1: completely unfamiliar to the modern audience. In the end, and
Speaker 1: Redwood Summer was organized ab about three quarters women, of
Speaker 1: which Judy Barry was too hospitalized and arrested to be
Speaker 1: one of. And Redwood Summer was a success, but not
Speaker 1: what the activists had hoped. But the fact that they
Speaker 1: pulled it off is a huge fucking win for decentralization,
Speaker 1: for creating a leah full movement. Right and past actions
Speaker 1: had had upwards of one hundred and fifty people at
Speaker 1: you know, Redwood blockades and things. Redwood Summer actions drew
Speaker 1: like three thousand people, but it was fewer people than
Speaker 1: they hoped for and more devastating still because of all
Speaker 1: the culture warship and the framing of Judy Berry for
Speaker 1: own bombing. Proposition one thirty failed. Fifty two percent of
Speaker 1: people voted against it, forty eight percent for it. Oh man.
Speaker 1: It's opponents mostly used, don't give in to the evil
Speaker 1: eco terrorists like Judy Berry who hate our rural way
Speaker 1: of life and are trying to blow everything up or whatever.
Speaker 1: I wonder, I wonder, I wonder where we've seen this
Speaker 1: narrative since then, hah, that's nowhere. That's odd. Yeah, curious,
Speaker 1: jurious stuff. Go ahead, what's the one that I mean,
Speaker 1: we're just even we're just even seeing like ripples of
Speaker 1: this style of propaganda in Atlanta, like this you know, framing,
Speaker 1: framing like lethal force encounters um and using that to
Speaker 1: try to, like with the state controlling all of the
Speaker 1: narrative around that, to try to make it seem like, oh,
Speaker 1: everyone involved in this campaign is a terrorist from out
Speaker 1: of state and trying to like trying to drum up
Speaker 1: people who live in the area to turn against what
Speaker 1: what what is a very popular movement. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: actually I mean, that's that's why I wanted to you know,
Speaker 1: I always knew I was going to be talking about
Speaker 1: Judy Barry. But the reason I was like, I'm doing
Speaker 1: this now is because of all this shit happening in Atlanta,
Speaker 1: and like, I feel like there's a lot It's not
Speaker 1: just like, oh, I think people should learn from this,
Speaker 1: although I think that's true, right, but there's also a
Speaker 1: lot to be like proud of and to see where
Speaker 1: we come from as a movement, you know, and to
Speaker 1: see that we come from strong fucking people, and we
Speaker 1: are strong, sucking people and looking looking looking at the
Speaker 1: past is like, yeah, the level of resiliency that we've
Speaker 1: seen in the past and the way that continues now,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's it's good to know your own history. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And within a year, Judy and Darryl bring suit against
Speaker 1: the FBI, claiming that they'd maliciously fucked up the investigation
Speaker 1: and unlawfully arrested them. Especially because of this lawsuit, they
Speaker 1: avoided speculating too hard about who bombed them, right because
Speaker 1: of the lawsuit in progress, and they don't want to
Speaker 1: suck it up by running around and mean like it
Speaker 1: was whatever if if you if you say like it
Speaker 1: was the FBI, as you're trying to see the FBI
Speaker 1: that can be used against Yeah, yeah, that is That
Speaker 1: is the smart way tiggle about things. Yeah, the way
Speaker 1: I understand it. The most plausible thing. I am not
Speaker 1: making an accusation here. The most plausible thing is that
Speaker 1: the FBI planted the bomb or convinced an informant too.
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm not going to make a guess
Speaker 1: about who among who might have been the informant or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's also possible that it was a random crank. And
Speaker 1: that's the really fucking weird coincidence that it's right after
Speaker 1: all of her political enemies how to how to blow
Speaker 1: up a car with someone in at training. And there's
Speaker 1: some conspiracy theorists too, because of course there are the
Speaker 1: evidence for the conspiracy theories. Seems to boil down to
Speaker 1: that meme. That's like source, I made it up, I've
Speaker 1: made it up. Yeah. Judy doesn't think it's a coincidence
Speaker 1: that the bombers targeted a woman. Here's a quote from
Speaker 1: her about that. I believe that the reason I was
Speaker 1: subjected to such excessive violence was not just that what
Speaker 1: I was saying, but the fact that a woman was
Speaker 1: saying it. I recently attended a workshop in Tennessee on
Speaker 1: violence and harassment and the environmental movement. There were thirty
Speaker 1: two people in the circle, drawn from all over the country.
Speaker 1: As we each told our tale, I was struck by
Speaker 1: the fact that the most serious acts of violence had
Speaker 1: all been done to women. But whoever bombed her, Judy survived.
Speaker 1: She got back to organizing. She moved away from Frontline's
Speaker 1: work a lot because of her injuries, and moved to
Speaker 1: a remote cabin with her daughters, but all the attention
Speaker 1: helped her network and organize. Soon the demos became massive
Speaker 1: civil disobedience. This is like celebrities and shit. John Biez,
Speaker 1: Bonnie Rate, Woody Harrelson, who's an anarchist, climbed the Golden
Speaker 1: Gate Bridge with a with North Coast Earth First to
Speaker 1: drop a banner that said her wits aren't ancient, redwoods
Speaker 1: more precious than gold. I did not know this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's wild. Yeah, there's footage of it too. There's footage
Speaker 1: of the banner and the footage of him getting interested.
Speaker 1: Judy Barry kept up her radio show and speaking and organizing.
Speaker 1: I don't know at what point she stopped being a
Speaker 1: construction worker, but I've read somewhere that it was around
Speaker 1: this time that she wasn't able to be a construction
Speaker 1: worker and that would have been hard, hard to do
Speaker 1: with injuries. Yeah, so she becomes a paralegal. And I
Speaker 1: have seen several people who are targeted by the state
Speaker 1: for violence and unlawful arrest and all that shit become
Speaker 1: legal workers, whether like go to law school or become paralegals.
Speaker 1: It's a very yeah, common career path and it fucking
Speaker 1: rules as noble as hell, you know, being like I
Speaker 1: went through some shit, I'm going to fucking help people. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: She was involved in a fight for what in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven became the Headwaters Forest Reserve, another three thousand
Speaker 1: or so acres of old growth forest, with another three
Speaker 1: thousand or so acres buffer zone around that old growth forest.
Speaker 1: I listened to a speech from after this point where
Speaker 1: she talks about she's really excited about this tactic that
Speaker 1: people started doing where they start wrapping all the trees
Speaker 1: in yarn, in acrylic yarn because it gums up chainsaws. Huh.
Speaker 1: I have never I've never heard of this. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: would never advocate anyone do anything. But you know, there's
Speaker 1: a if you listen to the album Who Bomb Judy Berry,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of her speeches on it. It's like,
Speaker 1: if you want to really quick, I just want to
Speaker 1: listen to some Judy Berry. I don't want to read
Speaker 1: a whole last book or whatever. Just listened to Who
Speaker 1: Bomb Judy Berry. There's a couple like clever songs where
Speaker 1: she's like, the FBI won't give me my fiddleback. But
Speaker 1: it also has a lot of her speeches and shit,
Speaker 1: and she's a fucking good she's good at what she does.
Speaker 1: But in nineteen ninety six, she was diagnosed with inoperable
Speaker 1: breast cancer. In her case, chemo would extend her would
Speaker 1: have extended her life only a matter of months, so
Speaker 1: she refused it. It wasn't a like it wasn't like
Speaker 1: a hippie thing, you know. Yeah. Yeah. She kept up
Speaker 1: her paralegal work and her radio show, but she dropped
Speaker 1: everything else. As she was dying of cancer. She got
Speaker 1: letters of well wishing and support, even from her opponents,
Speaker 1: such as like the county's district attorney and some other
Speaker 1: state officials who had lost their family who had also
Speaker 1: lost family to breast cancer, and Judy said this about it.
Speaker 1: I was totally cynical, But then I realized their acts
Speaker 1: were reaching down to a deeper level of humanity, and
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. One of her last quotes was, I
Speaker 1: have no regrets at all except getting into that car
Speaker 1: in Oakland. Just I don't know. I think it's funny. Yeah.
Speaker 1: On March second, nineteen ninety seven, she died at home.
Speaker 1: A thousand people came to her memorial service, and Darryl
Speaker 1: Cherney continued their lawsuit against the FEDS and made gain
Speaker 1: after gain, improving their bias. Like the FEDS kept trying
Speaker 1: to squash it on like random things, and then just
Speaker 1: like it it was so fucking obvious the FBI was
Speaker 1: lying and being terrible that the judge just kept throwing
Speaker 1: out all the FBI's motions. But it took a long
Speaker 1: time and a fuck ton of work. It finally went
Speaker 1: to trial in two thousand and two and they won,
Speaker 1: and they won a four point four million dollars settlement
Speaker 1: to Darryl and to Judy's estate. By the end, the
Speaker 1: Feds in Oakland, PD were both trying to blame each other,
Speaker 1: like as like the whole ship is sinking, you know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because divide and conquered goes both ways, and we tend
Speaker 1: to think of the state as this monolithic thing and
Speaker 1: it is not. It's it's these little, these little cliques
Speaker 1: and kind of in some ways similar to how like
Speaker 1: edicacyment's operating, Yeah, it's it's these it's these little cliques
Speaker 1: that are always vying for more control and more power,
Speaker 1: like even in Atlanta, it's it's funny to listen to
Speaker 1: scanner audio of like Atlanta police into Cab County Police
Speaker 1: arguing about who can do what when they're trying to
Speaker 1: do a raid, and it's like it's it's it's these
Speaker 1: it's these little it is these little people trying to
Speaker 1: trying to exert as much control as they personally can. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and man, you know what's so funny is it it
Speaker 1: was really effective against our movements to sow division. But anyway,
Speaker 1: one juror came out of the court and told the
Speaker 1: press a bit later after the gag order lifted, and
Speaker 1: basically it was like it was so fucking obvious the
Speaker 1: cops were lying. Just was like going on about being like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, none of us believed them. They are
Speaker 1: so obviously lying because they kept up the same lies
Speaker 1: to the end. Like they it was like twelve years later,
Speaker 1: and they were like they knew the bomb was in
Speaker 1: their car because it was on the back seat and
Speaker 1: they put their instruments on top of it, even though
Speaker 1: all material evidence had disproven this twelve years earlier. It's
Speaker 1: like they just they just you know, we know what,
Speaker 1: like you know what, even like caught in the lives
Speaker 1: that you're like still trying to like get out of
Speaker 1: it and be like with like little tidy weasel ways,
Speaker 1: but you're like you could feel the walls closing it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Stick to your story, kids, I guess yeah, because they
Speaker 1: had testified that you can't you know, they had like said, no,
Speaker 1: this is true, so they can't, like it, perjure themselves
Speaker 1: or admit they perjured themselves. Yeah. Yeah, they absolutely could
Speaker 1: perjure themselves. They did so, And on May twentieth, two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, the Oakland City Council declared May twenty
Speaker 1: fourth to be Judy Berry Day in the city. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I know that some people still go and go
Speaker 1: to the spot where it happened every every May twenty four.
Speaker 1: Her work can be remembered in a thousand ways, but
Speaker 1: one of the most important was the class consciousness that
Speaker 1: she brought to earth First, and people kept and keep
Speaker 1: fighting for the Redwoods. In nineteen ninety eight, I mentioned
Speaker 1: this in the Chico Menda's episode Unfortunately two an earth First,
Speaker 1: Her named David Chain was killed by a logger who
Speaker 1: more or less intentionally dropped a tree on him. YEP.
Speaker 1: Between nineteen ninety seven and nineteen ninety nine, the most
Speaker 1: famous tree sitter. This person doesn't die. The most famous
Speaker 1: tree sitter, Julia Butterfly Hill, lived in a two hundred
Speaker 1: foot thousand year old redwood for seven hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: eight days until they finally were like, all right, fine,
Speaker 1: we won't fucking cut it and we'll create a two
Speaker 1: hundred foot buffer around it. Will you please come down
Speaker 1: and stop making hippies love your cause? And that's fucking cool.
Speaker 1: And the campaign against Judy Barry, the campaign against her,
Speaker 1: did not stop with her death. So fucking great, so gross.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, a biography came out about
Speaker 1: her and was published by Encounter Books. Encounter Books is
Speaker 1: a right wing nonprofit publishing house that is based on
Speaker 1: a maggot that the CIA funded in the Cold War?
Speaker 1: What what the fuck? And this is not conspiracy talk.
Speaker 1: That's from their about page. No, yeah, yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 1: Well I'm sure, I'm sure. I'm sure this biography was
Speaker 1: heavily vetted, full of full of reliable sources. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: didn't interview like a single person who was friends with
Speaker 1: Judy Barry. They only interviewed all the people who hate
Speaker 1: They're just like interviewed her enemies, just gonna be like, hey,
Speaker 1: here's a biography. It's like a smiling picture of her
Speaker 1: on the front. It's like presented as if it's a
Speaker 1: regular biography. It's not like the evil Marxist terrorists, who
Speaker 1: I don't think she's a Marxist, but the evil eco
Speaker 1: terrorists who tried to you know whatever. Um. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: same house publishes attack biographies of like Anita Hill and
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. One of their current bestsellers is BLM The
Speaker 1: Making of a New Marxist Revolution. But they mean it
Speaker 1: in a bad way. Yes, yes, so they paid an
Speaker 1: author named Kate Coleman. This is what I was read.
Speaker 1: People say as true. Sue Happy Publishing House. They probably
Speaker 1: paid an author named Kate Coleman about ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: to write the biography. Apparently she admitted this when people
Speaker 1: came to her talk, because she tried to give a
Speaker 1: fucking talk in the Bay and people were like, fuck
Speaker 1: in the Bay. Great, yeah, great, great choice. Yeah. Judy's
Speaker 1: friends were in the crowd with like signs that said
Speaker 1: lie and they would just hold up the sign this
Speaker 1: is lie. Anytime she would tell a lie, that's great,
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's see that, that is like that.
Speaker 1: That is extremely effective non violent practice, No totally. And
Speaker 1: then you know, when I was talking to when people
Speaker 1: did it, and she was like, yeah, we did it
Speaker 1: because like that way, we weren't being loud and disruptive,
Speaker 1: you know. But apparently wal confronted at one of these talks,
Speaker 1: she admitted to being paid to write this biography. That
Speaker 1: that is where I'm drawing that from. Okay, other than
Speaker 1: this book, she's written dozens of books. They're all I
Speaker 1: bet they're They're all pegg they are all I don't
Speaker 1: know if you'll see this one coming poorly reviewed romance
Speaker 1: novels with photoshop covers. I mean, yeah, that's that kind
Speaker 1: of touch track. It's like the grocery store romance cover
Speaker 1: with the with the ripped guy with the shirt list
Speaker 1: and a woman with like loose clothing like grasping his
Speaker 1: leg or so. It's then a knockoff version of that.
Speaker 1: It is the it is the like, look at Kate
Speaker 1: Coleman's good Reads. You're not even gonna find it on Amazon,
Speaker 1: but she has dozens on good Reads and they're all
Speaker 1: like The Last Duchess, The Duchess Cometh. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the fucking books. Sophie
Speaker 1: has clearly found it as giggling. Kate Coleman seven deadly
Speaker 1: Sins of Women in Leadership intended us is that the
Speaker 1: same Kate Coleman I chased seven years for a duchess
Speaker 1: dance for the duchess, A lot of irving duchess wager
Speaker 1: for a duchess. Luisa's Lessons, the Scholars Duchess, the Duchess,
Speaker 1: Duchess Chronicles, the Duchess Right Duchess, Duchess Duchess, and ruins
Speaker 1: and they all have like duchess turtles, the Fugion of
Speaker 1: Duchess two point five star dus in Ruins Gere. I'm
Speaker 1: looking at all of the there's like this. There's gotta
Speaker 1: be like over thirty thirty duchess books here, hate Coleman. All.
Speaker 1: If there's two of you and you're not the one
Speaker 1: who wrote the Attack biography, I am so sorry. But
Speaker 1: I did check, and it is like a good Reads
Speaker 1: verified thing. It's just that the one book is so
Speaker 1: out of line with all the rest that that's why
Speaker 1: I double checked. Yeah, that is but yeah, and the
Speaker 1: bad reviews the better of the Secret Wars of of
Speaker 1: Judy Barry. The bad reviews aren't for I hate this
Speaker 1: person's politics. The bad reviews are like this wasn't really
Speaker 1: a book, has read like an outline instead of a book. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately, the Attack biography seems to be one of
Speaker 1: the main sources for Judy's Wikipedia page, which focuses on
Speaker 1: her as like a contentious person that everyone was afraid
Speaker 1: of and all this shit. It's not the only attack
Speaker 1: book that someone was hired to write about Earth First.
Speaker 1: It's one of these movements that has had an incredible
Speaker 1: impact on society that's hard to get objective writing on
Speaker 1: because of how many people have been paid to fucking
Speaker 1: slander it. But I'm going to leave you with one
Speaker 1: last Judy Barry quote. History will remember people who destroy
Speaker 1: bulldozers as heroes. You win a lawsuit to stop a
Speaker 1: logging plan, then the timber company files an identical plan
Speaker 1: the very next season. Besides sabotage, what else is left
Speaker 1: that is not an accurate summation of the whole of
Speaker 1: her work or whatever? But I think it's all is
Speaker 1: worth understanding that well, one of earth First strengths. I
Speaker 1: was talking to my friend about this earlier. One of
Speaker 1: Earth's first strengths is they are not a sabotage organization,
Speaker 1: and they do a lot of stuff that like super
Speaker 1: cool radicals would consider like boring and liberal. They do
Speaker 1: a lot of lawsuits, they do a lot of like
Speaker 1: gathering where there are nests of different animals in the
Speaker 1: forest in order to save timber or lands. But the
Speaker 1: thing that makes them, I think resilient is exactly this
Speaker 1: celebration of a diversity of tactics, because you can't draw
Speaker 1: a line between people if everyone recognizes that all the
Speaker 1: tools in the toolbox are valid. And obviously some people
Speaker 1: do draw lines at like some people draw the lines
Speaker 1: at actions that hurt working class people, you know, But
Speaker 1: that's not sabotage, no, no, I mean, yeah, that diversity
Speaker 1: of tactics is the it's when consistently employed you do
Speaker 1: see like measurable winds. There's been very good work done
Speaker 1: by a Cascadia Forest Defense, which is a decentralized collective people.
Speaker 1: We've interviewed them a few times on it could happen here,
Speaker 1: but they've done fairy good work getting getting using a
Speaker 1: combination of direct action and the court system to shut
Speaker 1: down logging in the Pacific Northwest. In Atlanta, we're seeing
Speaker 1: people employ tactics, tactics of sabotage. There are there are
Speaker 1: like construction equipment that does spontaneously burst into flames, shotting manufacturing,
Speaker 1: so true, but there's there's also like people like yeah,
Speaker 1: organizing neighborhood groups. There's people trying to pressure the construction
Speaker 1: companies and the contracting companies to drop out of the project.
Speaker 1: And that that has that has produced like measurable successes.
Speaker 1: Um is a large a large diversity of tactics is
Speaker 1: almost like a cliche saying at this point, but it's
Speaker 1: like it's true, like it is it It is something
Speaker 1: that is that is shown shown to have successes. It's
Speaker 1: how especially in ecological movements. Yeah, and it and and
Speaker 1: I think that it really does go both ways. It
Speaker 1: involves respecting the people who do things that you find boring,
Speaker 1: and it involves respecting people who do things that you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's going to alienate everyone. Well, like historically sometimes but
Speaker 1: more often than that, diverse tactics make strong movements, and
Speaker 1: strong movements are harder to disrupt with co intel protype tactics.
Speaker 1: And the fact that Earth first is still around forty
Speaker 1: three years in after decades of attempts to destroy it.
Speaker 1: It is fucking saying something that's my earnest earnest summation. No,
Speaker 1: and like not not every campaign they're involved with is
Speaker 1: going to be successful by any means. But that's that's
Speaker 1: not how you measure that's not how you measure like success.
Speaker 1: When you're trying to, you know, save the planet from
Speaker 1: ecological collapse on a global level. Well, listener, if you
Speaker 1: want to save that's my plug. Get involved in some shit,
Speaker 1: Like if you're trying to figure out what to do
Speaker 1: with your life, go get involved. Don't. I'm not telling
Speaker 1: you go do crime. Specifically, do not go do crime
Speaker 1: at anyone you hear in your fucking earphones telling you
Speaker 1: to go to crime. But movements, social movements could probably
Speaker 1: use you and is and there's ways if movements that
Speaker 1: believe in diversity of tactics also have a lot of
Speaker 1: different ways to get involved. No, yeah, the onboarding process
Speaker 1: for diversity of tactics movements is a lot more manageable
Speaker 1: than something that's like we explicitly only do crimes and
Speaker 1: we only allow people who want to do big crime,
Speaker 1: which in general is a little bit less sustainable. And
Speaker 1: they cry down against it can be a little a
Speaker 1: little a little more targeted, I suppose, because there's still
Speaker 1: is crackdowns against large, diverse movements. But the more people involved,
Speaker 1: in some ways, the safer everybody is. Well and I crackdown,
Speaker 1: I mean, and I know that's probably not the etymology
Speaker 1: of crackdown, but like literally they try and create cracks.
Speaker 1: And the way they do it is they take the like, well,
Speaker 1: we know you're a good protester and you would never
Speaker 1: support people who throw a water bottle at a cop,
Speaker 1: you know, and like the more that you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a good protester, I'm here on the sign whatever,
Speaker 1: that's like my thing. I don't do all the dangerous
Speaker 1: shit because I'm fucking it's not my thing. But those
Speaker 1: people are also like on my side too, Like if
Speaker 1: someone breaks a bank window and you're like, well, I
Speaker 1: wish that they hadn't broken a bank window, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but which person do you care more about? The person
Speaker 1: who is fighting against capitalism or the CEO of the
Speaker 1: or the window of the bank. Yeah, like exactly sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And the more people holding signs, the safer it is
Speaker 1: for the for the person who decides that hey, I'm
Speaker 1: angry that the cops killed somebody. I'm going to smash
Speaker 1: his bank window. And so the more people who are
Speaker 1: who are willing to stand there holding up banners, holding
Speaker 1: up signs, it's it creates, It creates a scenario that
Speaker 1: allows people to employ a diversity of tactics in a
Speaker 1: much more broad way. And yeah, no action is too
Speaker 1: big or too small. You don't know what the ripple
Speaker 1: effects of any individual thing is gonna it's gonna turn
Speaker 1: out to be. I do think it is. It is
Speaker 1: a little upsetting that I knew that there was like
Speaker 1: a car bombing incident against an Earth First activist in
Speaker 1: the nineties. But it is a little upsetting how little
Speaker 1: I knew about this story and this person. Yeah, honestly,
Speaker 1: I was because Judy Barry's story was such a big
Speaker 1: part of when I first got involved in Earth First. Um.
Speaker 1: But I also, like you know, I got involved, like
Speaker 1: I was at a celebration for when the lawsuit won. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: But it's so it's something that we need to we
Speaker 1: need to keep aware of, you know, and we can
Speaker 1: we can learn from history. We shouldn't get mired in history, um,
Speaker 1: but we can learn from it, well, any other plugs,
Speaker 1: huh well, nothing besides I guess like the fight continuous,
Speaker 1: like this type of stuff that people are doing in
Speaker 1: the eighties. You you see you see ripples of that
Speaker 1: of that same fight. Now, Um, when we were talking
Speaker 1: about like old growth forests in the first episode, I
Speaker 1: think this is this is one kind of one narrative
Speaker 1: we've seen try to try to get used against people
Speaker 1: doing forest defense in in uh in Atlanta. Is that
Speaker 1: the forest slated. It's not. It isn't an old growth forest,
Speaker 1: So it's fine, it's it's it's it's fine to chop
Speaker 1: it down. Yeah, where do they think exactly. It's like
Speaker 1: like the East Coast has already been like completely decimated
Speaker 1: by all of its old growth forest and you think
Speaker 1: it's just you just it just isn't gonna like grow
Speaker 1: back itself. You know one day in old old forest
Speaker 1: will just pop into existence. Yeah, uh no, like it's
Speaker 1: it needs to survive. And the fact that like young
Speaker 1: forests are so different than than old growth forests, but
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they're worse, they're just different. Like it is,
Speaker 1: it is, it is a different type of beautiful Walking
Speaker 1: through the Wilannie Forest versus walking through then walking through
Speaker 1: a forest in the middle of the Pacific Northwest. It's
Speaker 1: it's it has a different atmosphere, it has a different vibe.
Speaker 1: The forest in Atlanta is like this weird, resilient punk forest.
Speaker 1: You like trees like desperately trying to crawl out of
Speaker 1: the clay for life, and it's cool and they should
Speaker 1: be able to continue growing. So just as we're talking
Speaker 1: about a lot of like old growth stuff today, I
Speaker 1: think it's it's important important to mention that, you know
Speaker 1: that shouldn't be the single barometer of if if a
Speaker 1: forest should be protected is old growth yes or no?
Speaker 1: It's like no, it's a fucking it's it's one of
Speaker 1: the it's it's the biggest remaining forest in the city
Speaker 1: of Atlanta. Like no, totally old growth, like absolutely no,
Speaker 1: don't fucking cut old growth? And then like what you
Speaker 1: do cut? Yeah, shouldn't be in the middle of the
Speaker 1: city so that you can build a place for cops
Speaker 1: to practice murdering people. Like anyway, probably everyone who's listening
Speaker 1: knows that, but well, hope hopefully a few a few
Speaker 1: more might um and the stuff will continue even if
Speaker 1: you can't make it to the Week of Action, there's stuff.
Speaker 1: Stuff will continue and the type of repression we're seeing now,
Speaker 1: the repression is a sign that the movement is winning,
Speaker 1: as you can see with some of a lot of
Speaker 1: the stuff in the in the eighties. In the eighties
Speaker 1: and nineties, repression starts intensifying the moment that people in
Speaker 1: power realize oh oh no, yeah, they might actually win
Speaker 1: this one. Yeah, so stuff is going to continue past
Speaker 1: the Week of Action. There will probably be future weeks
Speaker 1: of action. There's this summer will be a very important
Speaker 1: turning point as as land disturbance permits are kind of
Speaker 1: like we are, we are waiting to see like the
Speaker 1: final final ones get issued. And yeah, the more people
Speaker 1: that comes down, the safer everybody is. It's the It's
Speaker 1: the only way to beat the panopticon is that everyone
Speaker 1: all goes at once. And if you're not going, yeah,
Speaker 1: support the people who are. And but this is just
Speaker 1: a history podcast. I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: We just talk objective, objective facts about some stuff from
Speaker 1: back in the day that have no relevance to the present.
Speaker 1: This is this is one of the weird things that
Speaker 1: I was thinking about as as I was in it
Speaker 1: as I was in Atlanta last time. Is that people
Speaker 1: don't sometimes realize that like they're living through history, Like yeah, totally,
Speaker 1: they are living They are living through the things that
Speaker 1: will be talked about in this way in thirty years,
Speaker 1: and that is a weird thing to go through and realize,
Speaker 1: like the actions you take have impacts beyond the here
Speaker 1: and now that you can't even imagine. How do you
Speaker 1: want to sound when you're on Cool People Who Did
Speaker 1: Cool Stuff as a subject, and everyone needs to think,
Speaker 1: what would Margaret Killjoy making me? No, don't do that.
Speaker 1: Never mind, before before you throw that ball top, think
Speaker 1: formal Margaret kill Joy say about this in twenty years?
Speaker 1: Will she? Will she critique my arc on this? Should
Speaker 1: I do forty five degrees or thirty degrees? Which vota
Speaker 1: will she prefer? I'm so optimistic that will all be
Speaker 1: here and anyway, but we will be here next week
Speaker 1: with more Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. Cool People
Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,