1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: I'll Never told you production of iHeart Radio. And as 3 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: this comes out, it is Black History Month, and usually 4 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: during Black History Months, we like to bring back a 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: good female first about a black woman who did something 6 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: really cool. And today we're talking about Mary and Mania 7 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: Lewis or our Eves is talking about. We're bringing back 8 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: an episode that Eves brings to us because she's amazing 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: who has just a great story and really fascinating, as 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: with all of these female first episodes, so please enjoy 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: this classic. 12 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 3: I'm welcome to stuff I Never told you production of 14 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 3: iHeart Radio. And it's time for another female first, which 15 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 3: means we are once again joined by the wonderful, fabulous, 16 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:16,639 Speaker 3: great friend of ours. 17 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: Eve's Hi, Hi. 18 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:28,919 Speaker 4: Hi again, it's me again, Yes, hi, yep, it's me again. 19 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 3: Well, this is our first recording of twenty twenty two. 20 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 5: Correct together? That feels right? This sounds right right? 21 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I know time is already blurring together this year. 22 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: But how is your your end of year? New Year's Eve? 23 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 4: It was good, it was pretty uneventful. I didn't really 24 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 4: do anything. I think I slept, No, I think I 25 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 4: was up at midnight and I think I went to 26 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 4: sleep right at midnight on ye, I was like, it's 27 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 4: time to go to sleep. So I was surprised I 28 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 4: even made it a midnight. But yeah, beyond the actual day, 29 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 4: I am happy it's a new year. 30 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 5: I'm trying for this to be one of those. 31 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 4: Years where, of course it's a good time to reflect 32 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 4: on the past and the future and all of those things, 33 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 4: but also trying to be less serious about that and 34 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 4: understand that it's something that can happen all year long 35 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 4: as well. So I will say things are different and 36 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 4: they're the same. 37 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 6: Yes, that feels about right for the last four years, 38 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 6: different but the same. 39 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 5: Yeah. 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny because my new Year's resolution is to 41 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 3: take better care of myself and I have like specifics 42 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 3: about it. But on New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, 43 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 3: I stayed up until five. 44 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 5: They am playing a video game. 45 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 7: I played like ten times. 46 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 5: I'm having like a fifty five percent success rate right now. 47 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 5: I think on the game you mean to atone number. 48 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 5: I don't want to say anything, but you know. 49 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 6: Nice about it, Like, oh, on the game that you 50 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 6: play four. 51 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 4: Times ten times? No, no, same, I'm terrible at games. 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 4: I'm just messing with you in terrible at video games. 53 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 4: All good, All good, Well for this one. 54 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: I know we've talked before about art and sculpture, but 55 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 3: my question to the group is what it was your favorite? 56 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: Like writing discounted, what was your favorite form of I 57 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 3: guess visual art that you've participated in. 58 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 4: You do you mean things that I've I've myself created 59 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,839 Speaker 4: or just like an observer, I was asking for what 60 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 4: you yourself has created, but now I want to know both. No, 61 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 4: it's writing. Writing is like I mean, it's not a 62 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 4: visual art technically per se. I haven't really dabbled in 63 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 4: any of the visual arts painting, sculpture, drawing, none of those. 64 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 4: But I would say that's a good question. I would 65 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 4: say probably painting. And I would say that because that 66 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 4: is the first thing that comes into my mind based 67 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 4: on the emotional, like visceral emotional reactions that I've had 68 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 4: when I'm in spaces with paintings, I think that I'm 69 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 4: I am more drawn to and have stronger emotional reactions 70 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 4: through viewing paintings. But I've also I mean, I've also 71 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 4: had pretty strong reactions to other things as well like 72 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 4: video and sculpture. 73 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, what about you? 74 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think in one of these past female first 75 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: we talked about this, but I the lowest grade I 76 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 3: ever got was an art in high school. Oh, in college, 77 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 3: I got a little grade in something else, but in 78 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 3: high school up until then, that was my lowest grade. 79 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: And everything I did the teacher hated. I was thinking 80 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 3: about this other night. She hated every single thing that 81 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: I did. But I did like in terms of creation, 82 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: I really liked. We did this project once where you 83 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 3: made a portrait of somebody out of materials that you 84 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 3: would find, and I actually really enjoyed that because it 85 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 3: was very textural and to kind of hunt down these 86 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 3: items and think about them in a different way of 87 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 3: how they could reflect because I was trying to create 88 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: somebody in a sunset, so I had to find all 89 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: those kind of swaths of colors but. 90 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 2: In these other items. So I really really enjoyed that. 91 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: And I think I'm with you with when I think 92 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 3: about the art that's moved me the most, paintings is 93 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 3: probably visually, uh, and visual arts the one that has 94 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 3: done it. But I like that you brought up video 95 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 3: because that's true, and I feel like that gets left 96 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,119 Speaker 3: out of the conversation a lot. Yet I have seen 97 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 3: some just really moving video art. Yeah, but there's space. 98 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 3: Like I'm a I love sculpture as well, and I do. 99 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: I enjoyed sculpting, and I used to make a lot 100 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: of pottery. 101 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 5: I just was never very good at it, but I 102 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 5: did enjoy it. 103 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, what about used to Anthad. 104 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 6: So I am not good at art in general, and 105 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 6: that is not my forte. The only good thing I 106 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 6: could do, I think I've told you about this is 107 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 6: one time I got really into drawing penguins. No reason, 108 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 6: I just did it, and a good friend of mine 109 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 6: and I would make puns out of all these penguins. 110 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 2: Mmmm. 111 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 6: That was my favorite thing to do because it was 112 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 6: just like a little circle, a little pointy beak in 113 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 6: the story. And for some reason I really thought I 114 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 6: was doing something with that. Guess what I wasn't. However, 115 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 6: I do love art in itself, and yeah, I'm with you. 116 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 6: When I get to go to a good exhibit and 117 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 6: it really flows and it just like speaks to you. 118 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 5: There are moments that I'm like, oh wow. 119 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 6: And of course I love deep colors, so I'm one 120 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 6: of those that did fall into the Monet trap. I'm like, oh, yeah, 121 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 6: I'm digging these colors, and I was like I was 122 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,239 Speaker 6: looking at his stuff and like finding his history. 123 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 5: I was like, okay, yeah, I could definitely. 124 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 6: Tell he was going blind. I still love it because 125 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 6: he's still with us so much better than I could 126 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 6: ever do in it myself in any way. Like fully, 127 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 6: there so all of those things, but I do love 128 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 6: also finding the fascinating histories behind the different artists. 129 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 5: They do make me very happy. 130 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 6: I think that's just in general for like authors too, 131 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 6: which I yes, I believe that's art, but I know 132 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 6: we're not like counting that for this moment. But yeah, 133 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 6: for me, like the cheesy experiences have been happening where 134 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 6: you're really immersed in it. Everybody's kind of been like, oh, 135 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 6: what is this? But I really enjoyed that because for 136 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 6: a minute, you do really think that you're in the 137 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 6: middle of it, and it feels like you're part of 138 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 6: that art for just a second. Of course, again cheesy effects, 139 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 6: and I get why people are like, no, this is awful. 140 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 6: It's so like it's ruining art. But I love that 141 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 6: experience to be immersed in it, to that point of 142 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 6: like seeing it in depth and Philly almost like move 143 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 6: through you. 144 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 4: I will say that I also really love prints, like 145 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 4: I love works on paper. Yeah, I love works on paper. 146 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 4: And I also love book art. I like that fall 147 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 4: for book art. I think it's so wonderful. It's just 148 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 4: and then then and it just merges, you know, language, 149 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 4: visual language, in the actual form of the book, even 150 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 4: though it doesn't always have to look like a typical 151 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 4: book that we would read. 152 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 5: But yeah, I love book art as well. 153 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, now that I'm thinking about it, like I 154 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 4: love comics, comics, and I love film, like I'm a 155 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 4: huge movie person. 156 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 5: And there's definitely but also. 157 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 3: I mean there's yeah, there's just so much more we 158 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 3: could include. 159 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so much and visual art and expansive it is. 160 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh wow, my mind, my mind is just expanding 161 00:08:59,040 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 4: even more. 162 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 3: But also photography, That's what I was going to say. 163 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 3: I got a lot of photography books for Christmas actually, 164 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 3: and beautiful beautiful. Yeah all right, so we like, we 165 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 3: like art, is what I'm hearing. 166 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 5: I think he probably knows that by this point. 167 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 4: Yes, considering we're podcaster, is considering I bring artists all 168 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 4: the time, and they know that we write it and 169 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 4: are involved in the arts in so many different ways. Yes, yes, 170 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 4: but also yeah, I do miss it, so we have 171 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 4: to really and I know we talked about in a 172 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 4: past episode two I miss going to exhibits and museums 173 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 4: and stuff. Right, So with all of that, who did 174 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 4: you bring for us to talk about today? 175 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 5: Eves? 176 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 4: Today we're going to talk about Mary Atmonia Lewis. So 177 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 4: I was kind of hesitant to bring her because, you know, 178 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 4: I know that there's a lot out there on her, 179 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 4: not like that's a qualification for not bringing somebody on 180 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 4: the show, Like there is already a lot of information 181 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 4: that exists because of course, just because there's so much 182 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 4: information about her, and she's really popped back up over 183 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 4: the last. 184 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 5: Decade, like a lot of people. 185 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 4: I've been talking about her, her works that have been 186 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 4: found in her place in the legacy of artists in 187 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 4: the United States and in the world internationally as well. 188 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 4: But I think she's still a person who's so worthy 189 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 4: of talking about. And I think we've also we might 190 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 4: have brought her name up in the meta Voe Warrick 191 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 4: Fuller episode. She was a sculptor as well, So I 192 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,599 Speaker 4: feel like maybe we mentioned her in there, because I 193 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 4: feel like I remember her name coming up then. But 194 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 4: even if we didn't, just you know that she had 195 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 4: Amonia Lewis herself had a bunch of her own inspirations 196 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 4: and also inspired people later who. 197 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 5: Worked in the field. 198 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 4: So in terms of her first she was the first 199 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 4: woman of Black American and Native American heritage to achieve 200 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 4: international fame as a sculptor. And yeah, she just had 201 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 4: this huge mythology around her that was built up, and 202 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 4: partially she built up a lot of that on her own, 203 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 4: and then there was a lot of mythologizing that happened 204 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 4: in the press and the people who wrote about her. 205 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, So we'll get into some of that later. 206 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. I feel like that's a theme in a lot 207 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 4: of these, is the kind of creating of the story 208 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 4: or the myth behind this person and how they were 209 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 4: were not involved, which I kind of appreciate. 210 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 5: Yeah. 211 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. As I was like researching her, the song Yankee 212 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 4: Doodle Dandy was going through my head like over and over. 213 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 4: The phrase born on the fourth of July was just 214 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 4: like going through and through my head because I was 215 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 4: thinking about how she said she was born on the 216 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 4: fourth of July, and that was a running theme for 217 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 4: a lot of people. If they didn't know their birthdate, 218 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 4: they would just say that they were born on the 219 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 4: fourth of July. 220 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 5: So that was just for some reason. I'm a frain 221 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 5: in my head. 222 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: I know that that's rabie. 223 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, I know it's rough, but yeah. 224 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 4: There is a bunch of conflicting information about her early life, 225 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 4: which is also a running theme. But she's said to 226 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 4: have embellished a lot of things and changed. 227 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 5: Them over time. 228 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 4: But like I said, one of those things was that 229 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 4: the date that they get July fourth, eighteen forty four. 230 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 4: So that year wasn't the only year that she ever 231 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 4: said that she was born. In other places say she 232 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 4: was born, but it is kind of the consensus year that. 233 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 5: It's going with. 234 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 4: It's the one that's on her gravestone. And that number 235 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 4: is based on her passport application, which apparently also said 236 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 4: that she was four feet tall. So when people described her, 237 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 4: they said she was short, but on her passport application 238 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 4: said she was four feet tall. But yeah, so she 239 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 4: got on her application it said that she was born 240 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 4: on or around July fourth, eighteen forty four, and she 241 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 4: was born in green Bush, New York. So there are 242 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 4: different birthdates, death dates for her mother, and other dates 243 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 4: in her personal history that you'll find. Yeah, I mean, 244 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 4: as we've spoken about before, this is digging into the past. 245 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 4: Whether the records can be murky if he were kept, 246 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 4: it all can be so so difficult and tricky. I 247 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 4: find it interesting that the passport would say on or around. 248 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 5: It could have kind of like a on or around. 249 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: Honor is somewhere in there. 250 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 5: And her heritage. 251 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 4: Her father was black and he was from the West Indies, 252 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 4: and her mother was Ojibway and born in Canada, so 253 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 4: she claimed that her mother, Catherine, was a quote unquote 254 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 4: full blooded Indian, But Catherine's father was a black man 255 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 4: and her mother had Black and Ojibway parents, so her heritage. 256 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 4: At Monia's mother's heritage was mixed as well. Her parents 257 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 4: died when she was young, but she did have a 258 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 4: brother named Samuel, and according to Edmonia, they both had 259 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 4: Native American names as well, his with Sunshine, and at 260 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 4: Monia's she said that her name was Wildfire. But after 261 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 4: she lost her parents, she went to live with her 262 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 4: aunts elsewhere in New York, and her brother soon left 263 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 4: for California, but he did send money back to her 264 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 4: for her education and would continue to support her throughout 265 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 4: her educational years, which is obviously something that helps anybody 266 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 4: a lot, and it did for her that he was 267 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 4: invested in her education. So in New York she went 268 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 4: to a Baptist Abolitionist school and then she went to 269 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 4: Oberlin College in Ohio, which she attended from eighteen fifty 270 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 4: nine to eighteen sixty three. So while she was there, 271 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 4: she board it with the rever friend John keep and 272 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 4: he was a member of the board of trustees and 273 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 4: an abolitionist. Throughout her life she was connected to a 274 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 4: lot of abolitionists. She stayed in places where a lot 275 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 4: of abolitionists were located, and she got a lot of 276 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 4: financial support from them, encouragement from them, press from abolitionists, 277 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 4: and things like that. 278 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 5: Oberlin College was known for being associated. 279 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 4: With the movement, and it was known for admitting black 280 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 4: people and women. At the same time, there was a 281 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 4: young ladies department that was split off from the rest 282 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 4: of the college in which Lewis was enrolled, and so 283 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 4: there was still this confinement to women's roles ideologically at 284 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 4: the college. It was said the training that they got 285 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 4: there would help them and teaching and quote unquote duties 286 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 4: of the sphere. So it wasn't so simple. It's just like, oh, 287 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 4: there's this college with this huge reputation of being progressive 288 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 4: and being all about abolitionism. 289 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 5: At the same time, this was still. 290 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 4: That period in the United States, and surrounding the college 291 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 4: and in the college itself were still people who didn't 292 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 4: rock with this whole idea of co education and the 293 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 4: reputation that it had. There were plenty of people in 294 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 4: the area who were still anti black, who were still 295 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 4: anti abolitionist, and who were still anti anybody starting to 296 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 4: pot essentially like really sticking to these moral codes according 297 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,239 Speaker 4: to what they view of morality. 298 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 5: Young ladies. I don't know. There's something about having the 299 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 5: young front of it too. 300 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 3: Yeah wow, But I mean, I know, I've told this 301 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 3: story on the show. Before I was in high school, 302 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 3: I still had to go to homech and it was 303 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 3: four girls at the high school. 304 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 5: We still had to do that. 305 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 4: And then I went to a technical school that was 306 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 4: all men until fairly recently, and some of the bathrooms 307 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 4: still just had a sign with women taped over it 308 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 4: because any women's bathrooms they hadn't bothered to like do 309 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 4: any better than that since then. Yeah, yeah, so it's weird. 310 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 4: So many things we talk about. It's weird, like how 311 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 4: far we've come, but also so much of this legacy 312 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 4: still we're still dealing with. 313 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure. That's also a running theme. 314 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 4: So when she was there, she still took classes like algebra, geometry, 315 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 4: and composition, and she took art classes, so she didn't 316 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 4: learn how to draw while she was there, but she 317 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 4: did run into troubles while she was at the college. 318 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 4: So in eighteen sixty two incidents, she served two women 319 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 4: who she was boarding with, two white women specifically who 320 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 4: she was boarding with, mulled wine and then they went out, 321 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 4: they went to, you know, go on a sleigh ride 322 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 4: or something like that, and they accused her of poisoning 323 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 4: them with Spanish fly, which was a substance that has 324 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 4: been considered an afrodisiac in the past. But they claimed 325 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 4: that she poisoned them, And after that she was attacked Atmonia, 326 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 4: was attacked and beaten. Not long after that, she was arrested, 327 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 4: but her trial was delayed, which when it did happen, 328 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 4: it lasted for about six days, from the end of 329 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 4: February to the beginning of March, so she did still 330 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 4: have supporters even though there were clearly people who didn't 331 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 4: rock with her, and Keeps, for one, was one of 332 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 4: her supporters and her attorney also John Mercer Langston, who 333 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 4: helped her win the trial. 334 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 5: But at the same time, she. 335 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 4: Was later accused of other crimes, like being accused of 336 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 4: stealing art supplies while attending the school, so they wouldn't 337 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 4: let her register for the last term. And some of 338 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 4: the publications that go back and look at her legacies 339 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 4: that some of the issues that she had, the challenges 340 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 4: that she had while she was there, and her reason 341 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 4: for leaving the school, those parts are absences and kind 342 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 4: of skipped over. So it's really interesting to think about 343 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 4: the things that she herself chose to leave out of 344 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 4: her story when she told it herself, and also the 345 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 4: things that were absent when other. 346 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 5: People were telling her story. 347 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 4: And of course that depends on a source and how 348 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 4: much room there isn't a source for a thing, But 349 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 4: you know, it's interesting. And she was forced to leave 350 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 4: Oberlin before she got her degree, and she decided to 351 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 4: move on and pursue art, so she went to Boston 352 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 4: in eighteen sixty four, Keeps wrote a letter of introduction 353 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 4: for her to William Lloyd Garrison, who was an abolitionist 354 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 4: and a journalist. 355 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 5: Who people might be familiar with. 356 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 4: It's a pretty big name, and he was able to 357 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 4: connect her with sculptors and writers, and so she began 358 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 4: working under Edward A. 359 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 5: Brackett, who was also an artist. 360 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 4: She learned modeling and casting, but they later parted ways 361 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 4: for some unknown reason. There seemed to have been some 362 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 4: sort of conflict there. But that relationship didn't last really long, 363 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 4: but she continued to create art, and in eighteen sixty 364 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 4: three she created a plaster medallion of abolitionist John Brown, 365 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 4: and the next year she also created a marble bust 366 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 4: of Colonel Robert Goldshaw. She sold photographs and plaster casts 367 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 4: of the bus, which those plaster casts she sold at 368 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 4: fifteen dollars each, and she also made busts of the 369 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 4: characters and Henry Wattsworth Longfellows epic poem The Song of Hyawatza. 370 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 4: But you know after a while, travel is a part 371 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 4: of her history. Not long after she was able to 372 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 4: apply for a passport because of all the funds that 373 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 4: she was getting from her work in take a trip 374 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 4: to Italy. 375 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 5: So she moved to Italy. 376 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 4: And as many artists did at the time, there was 377 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 4: a huge community of expat artists and sculptors who lived 378 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 4: in Italy. But in the New York Times article in 379 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 4: eighteen seventy eight, she said, quote, I was practically driven 380 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 4: to Rome in order to obtain the opportunity unities for 381 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 4: art culture and to find a social atmosphere where I 382 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 4: was not constantly reminded of my color. The land of 383 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 4: liberty had no room for a colored sculptor. There were 384 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 4: a lot of articles written about her in those abolitionist papers, 385 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 4: which she was also able to be in because of 386 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 4: the connections that she did have. She did interviews with 387 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 4: people and had articles written about her by people like 388 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 4: Elizabeth Peabody and Lydia Maria Child, all these people who 389 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 4: were involved in this press and activist circle in the area. 390 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 4: And as author Kristin pie Buick puts it in her 391 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 4: book that she wrote about Lewis called Child of the Fire, 392 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 4: she said, quote Lewis's image was reshaped largely by the 393 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 4: white women who wrote her into existence, which is something 394 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 4: that I mean, I think we've spoken about before on 395 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 4: the show. When we do female first, it's just like 396 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 4: these are we have to consider the source. Lewis and 397 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 4: Lydia Marie Child, who I just mentioned were at odds. 398 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 4: A lot of the time, Child would suggest ideas to 399 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 4: Louis as to how she should run her career. Because 400 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 4: Louis she was determined and she believed clearly believed in 401 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 4: her work. She wouldn't always wait for commissions for her work. 402 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 4: She would do things like make something and then send 403 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 4: it to the person that she dedicated it to and 404 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 4: then get them to find a buyer if they didn't 405 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 4: buy it. There was a lot of back and forth 406 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 4: in the relationship between the two of them, and I've 407 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 4: found in the comments about her as well. But also 408 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 4: in this relationship there were lots of patronizing attitudes directed 409 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 4: at Atmnia that she should be uplifted just because she 410 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 4: was mixed race. And at the same time, there was 411 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 4: this idea like, oh, while look at what she's doing. 412 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 4: She a mixed race artist who is creating these sculptors, 413 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 4: So she's worthy of being talked about just because of 414 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 4: her race, And this is the thing that exoticizes her 415 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 4: as an artist without just viewing the art itself for 416 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 4: its own qualities and its own merits, But at the 417 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 4: same time that was happening, she was also demeaned and 418 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 4: infantilized because of her race. For instance, Child didn't think 419 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 4: that she was as talented as others portrayed her, and 420 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 4: she thought she was irresponsible when it came to money. 421 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 5: But like, what would somebody expect since. 422 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 4: She was black and Native American, Like, of course she 423 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 4: had those qualities of being irresponsible. She didn't learn these things, 424 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 4: she didn't grow up with this kind of civilization. So 425 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 4: it is definitely a lot of nuance in it where 426 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 4: it's like, yes, it's valid to say that she shouldn't 427 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 4: be uplifted just because of her race, you know, we 428 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 4: have to actually look at the qualities of her work. 429 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 4: But of course, wrapped up into all those things were 430 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 4: the complexities of the way that people about black people, 431 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 4: that spoke about Native American people at the time. So 432 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 4: either way, she spent a lot of time in Italy, 433 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 4: spending time in Florence and Rome, and she kept on 434 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 4: creating art. It was said that when she went to Florence, 435 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 4: when she first got there, she went to Florence and 436 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 4: she was set up to stay with an American family, 437 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 4: but they didn't let her in. 438 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 5: So immediately from her. 439 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 4: Coming from the United States and getting to Europe, you know, 440 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 4: she was already meeting brick walls essentially. Yeah, so she 441 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 4: didn't meet artists while she was there that she was 442 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 4: connected to, like High Empowers and Thomas Ball and other 443 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 4: expats who were in the country. And she would do 444 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 4: busts and sculptures in the neo classical style. She would 445 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 4: do works after famous Classical and Renaissance sculptures and then 446 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 4: sell them to tourists in Rome. And her work centered 447 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 4: around historical, coole, social, racial, religious, and literary themes. Those 448 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 4: are typically what her works would focus on, and most 449 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 4: of her work was created between eighteen sixty six and 450 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 4: seventy six, but she did quite a few pieces over 451 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 4: the course of her life, although all of those no 452 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 4: longer exists, Like, we don't have visual record of a 453 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 4: lot of those, and they don't they aren't known to 454 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 4: be anywhere in life as well. I feel like I 455 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 4: took a really roundabout way of saying that, Wait. 456 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 6: Did they get destroyed or just disappeared from record or 457 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 6: do they know what happened? 458 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 4: No, it's not known what happened with a lot of 459 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 4: her work is just gone. And we'll get to a 460 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 4: story later about one of her biggest pieces that she 461 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 4: did about Cleopatra that had this really circuitous route to 462 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 4: being refound in recent years. 463 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 5: Teaser. 464 00:25:51,720 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 7: Yeah, she carved. 465 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 4: Her own marble when she was in Italy, which wasn't 466 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 4: a thing that There were a lot of artists who 467 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 4: didn't do that. They would get Italian artists, local Italian 468 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 4: artisans to do the actual carving of the marble, and 469 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 4: what they would do is create the designs and the 470 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 4: plaster works and then the artisans in the area would 471 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:31,479 Speaker 4: carve the marble. 472 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 5: But she carved her own marble. 473 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 4: And like I said, you can go through and see 474 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 4: some of her works, but some of the notable ones. 475 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 4: For instance, one was eighteen sixty sevens Forever Free, which 476 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 4: was a sculpture of two free enslaved people who were 477 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 4: depicted like upon receiving the news of emancipation. 478 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 5: But she was Catholic. It's not clear when she became Catholic. 479 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 4: There's a good chance that she was Catholic back to childhood, 480 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 4: but a lot of her work was influenced by her Catholicism. 481 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 4: For instance, there was a black couple who commissioned her 482 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 4: to do a sculpture called Virgin at the Cross for 483 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 4: a grave. They didn't like it, and what happened was 484 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 4: they pay her a few installments of I think it 485 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 4: was the four installments that they were supposed to pay 486 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 4: her in but they paid the third one. 487 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 5: They got it. They didn't like it. 488 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 4: They didn't want to pay her the fourth part, and 489 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 4: she went to court, won the case and got some 490 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 4: of the money that she asked for in the. 491 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 5: Settlement was in Italy. 492 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 4: She did it in Italy, but the couple was from 493 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 4: the United States. She would also go to Catholic fairs 494 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 4: and she would sell works to people at Catholic churches 495 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 4: and well, she would sell works to the Catholic churches 496 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 4: and also the church members. And Pope Pius the ninth 497 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 4: is said to have visited her studio in Rome, but 498 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 4: she didn't go back to the US. From time to 499 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 4: time doing some marketing for her work, and when she 500 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 4: visited Chicago in the eighteen seventies, she sat for a 501 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 4: series of pictures, and there are other photos outside of 502 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 4: that sitting as well of her. But it's really nice 503 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 4: to go look at the pictures and just stare at 504 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 4: them for a minute. I don't know if I'm weird 505 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 4: for doing things like that, but it's nice when you 506 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 4: actually have photos of people actually and also as many 507 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 4: photos as there are of her. Yeah, so I recommend 508 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 4: doing that. You can find them online. But yeah, So 509 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 4: the work that I teased earlier was the Death of Cleopatra. 510 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 4: That's another notable work of hers. She was invited to 511 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 4: participate in the eighteen seventy six Centennial Exposition in Philadelphia. 512 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 4: The event was held to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of 513 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 4: the signing of the Declaration of Independence. 514 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 5: It was all this like hurrah around the event. 515 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 4: There were exhibits for technology and art and for the event, 516 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 4: Louis made this really big sculpture, the Death of Cleopatra, 517 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 4: and in it, the Egyptian Queen Cleopatra is portrayed slumped 518 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,479 Speaker 4: like laid back in her throne, dead after letting a 519 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 4: snake bite her, as the story goes. 520 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 5: But it was. 521 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 4: Different than other neoclassical sculptures of Cleopatra at the time, 522 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 4: which more so held Cleopatra in a different light, romanticized 523 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 4: her a little bit more, put her up on a pedestal, 524 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 4: you know, versus being slumped in a chair, and the 525 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 4: sculpture was praised critically, and it was a popular piece 526 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 4: among the other sculptures that were within that exhibition. But 527 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 4: it wasn't sold at the exposition. It was exhibited in 528 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 4: Chicago not that long afterwards. Then it was put in storage, 529 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 4: Then it was displayed in a saloon. Then it was 530 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 4: acquired by John Condon, who was a racetrack owner, who 531 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 4: put it on top of the grave of his horse 532 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 4: named Cleopatra. It tracks Conden put in the properties ded 533 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 4: that it was never to be moved. But as things go, 534 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 4: development happened, and in the nineteen seventies I think it 535 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 4: went to a storage yard and then a boy scout 536 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 4: troop painted it after finding it outside. So they know 537 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 4: not what they did, I'm sure you know, but it 538 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 4: wasn't great for the sculpture itself. I had already been 539 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 4: outside for so long that you can only imagine what 540 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 4: the damage looked like before. 541 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 5: I don't know. 542 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 4: I didn't actually, I don't know if there were pictures 543 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 4: of it before it was restored or not, but those 544 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 4: would be really interesting to see. But in nineteen eighty five, 545 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 4: a member of the Historical Society of Forest Park, which 546 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 4: is a suburb outside of Chicago, acquired the sculpture. 547 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 5: Lewis was then identified as. 548 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 4: A sculptor who did it, and by nineteen ninety four 549 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 4: it was in the Smithsonian's permanent collection. So there were 550 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 4: a lot of different people who had their hands and 551 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 4: obviously this was a very fortunate event because things don't 552 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 4: always get found and attributed to the people who they 553 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 4: belonged to, especially if they've just been sitting for so long, 554 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 4: they don't. 555 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 5: They get destroyed. So this is one of those cases, Samantha. 556 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 4: You acts like those works were destroyed and we just 557 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 4: don't know what happened to them. This could have been 558 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 4: one of those things where like we didn't know what 559 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 4: happened to them, or it was destroyed. It was, you know, 560 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 4: in the whole process of it being outside in the 561 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 4: elements for so long, but it wasn't because of the 562 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 4: work of a bunch of people like art historian Marilyn Richardson, 563 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 4: bibliographer Dorothy Porter Wesley, and the curator George Kearney, like 564 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 4: helped along the way to get identified, restored and saved. 565 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 4: But this is like, this is one of the really 566 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 4: notable works in her in her history even though she 567 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 4: created a lot, but beyond her Egyptian subjects, Catholic subjects 568 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 4: and the anti slavery ones, she also did people portraits 569 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 4: and busts of people who were her patrons and notable 570 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 4: people like President Elyss's Grant who sat for her, people 571 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 4: like Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass who even met and 572 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 4: hung out with her, and then after that visit she 573 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 4: created the bust. Yeah, so it was a lively career 574 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,479 Speaker 4: where she met with so many different people who were 575 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 4: also notable in their time. So she had a lot 576 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 4: of contemporary notability and a success like also in the 577 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 4: way of selling her work, but also in the acclaim 578 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 4: popular as well as critical. But by the eighteen eighties 579 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 4: demand for her work wasn't as high as it was previously, 580 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 4: and by eighteen ninety eight she lived in France. 581 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 5: In nineteen oh one she was in London, and. 582 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 4: While she was in Europe people did support her financially 583 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 4: and by connecting her with other people and sending people 584 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 4: to her studio. 585 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 5: But she died in London. 586 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 4: In nineteen oh seven and in her will she called 587 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 4: herself a spinster and a sculptor. But yeah, she was 588 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 4: buried in an un marked grave at Saint Mary's Roman 589 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 4: Catholic Cemetery. So after this long life, with this legacy 590 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 4: that was marked in its own time, she was still 591 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 4: buried in unmarked grave. But a historian in town where 592 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 4: she was born did set up a fundraiser to create 593 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 4: a marker for her for her grave, which she only 594 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 4: got about five years ago, so not long ago at all. 595 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 4: But fortunately people are still invested in making sure that 596 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 4: her history is known and finding out more about her. 597 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 4: So a lot of her work is still on view 598 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 4: in places like Boston, d C. And Alabama. But then 599 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 4: there's a lot that we don't have anymore, but you know, 600 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 4: you can still go see it in person, so that 601 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 4: is that is a good thing, you know that there 602 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 4: is so accessible in person and also online. Yes, yes, 603 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 4: there's some really really amazing pictures online, and that. 604 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 5: Is quite quite the same story. 605 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 4: Very well traveled person and kind of yeah, connecting to 606 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 4: all these people from the time, and to call yourself 607 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 4: a spinster and you will to call yourself a spinster. 608 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 4: That sounds like a story, it does, doesn't it. And 609 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 4: I'm glad that. I mean, it's a shame that there 610 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 4: was an unmarked grave in the first place. 611 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 2: But I'm glad that. 612 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 4: People were dedicated and determined to change that even though 613 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 4: it was so recent. 614 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 6: So I'm guessing someone was able to keep up with 615 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 6: her grave knowing where she was the entire time, because 616 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 6: that's a long space of time to have an unmarked grave, 617 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 6: to be like, hey, and this is her headstone. 618 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, for sure. 619 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 4: It had to be tracked down, which I think is 620 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 4: some of the work that the historian I mentioned earlier, 621 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 4: Marilyn Richardson did. 622 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's one of. 623 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 4: Those things that clearly has to have a lot of 624 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 4: work put into it because it's not that easy to find, 625 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 4: especially it being in London, right. 626 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, right, like the level of the travel in itself. 627 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 6: But in my head, so that Cleopatra marble statue was 628 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 6: over three thousand pounds, and I guess she did it 629 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 6: there in Philadelphia, is what I'm imagining. 630 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 5: Is that correct? That's a good question. 631 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 4: I don't know if it was transported from Europe to 632 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 4: the United States, because I know that it stayed in 633 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 4: the United States because they didn't want to transport it 634 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 4: back to Europe. 635 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 5: Right. Yeah. 636 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 6: That's like all of these works because when we were 637 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 6: talking about even the piece that they did that they 638 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 6: didn't like, that the couple didn't like. In the US, 639 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 6: all of this back and forth travel, she was noted 640 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 6: to be that good that people were willing to commission 641 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 6: from overseas during a time where exporting things was not an. 642 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 5: Easy feet True. Yeah, a lot of her stuff she 643 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 5: did send back overseas, right. 644 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 6: Her popularity, her talent, and that traveled in such a way. 645 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 6: And yeah, it feels like a slap in the face 646 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 6: to have her place in an un marred grave when 647 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 6: she was so well liked and so well known that 648 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 6: they were willing to do this for her work. But 649 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 6: yet and still because I'm like, like, I'm just trying 650 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 6: to imagine the practicality. Maybe I'm just too literal. Well, 651 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 6: I'm like, wow, who has the money to do this? 652 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 6: Who has some money to go back and forth oversea 653 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 6: for marbled sculpture, which I'm sure took her a lot 654 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 6: of time, But yet she still has a lot of pieces. 655 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 6: Once again, because we know so much has been destroyed, 656 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 6: but yeah, there's still evidence of other work out there. 657 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I desperately want to see as tragic as it is, 658 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 3: the boy Scouts paint chob of this statue. I'm glad 659 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 3: it was restored, but I've got to admit there's a 660 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 3: I want to see this. 661 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 6: Surely there's a picture of that. 662 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 4: I wonder if the job that they did was like 663 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 4: trying to be conservationists, like if they were if they 664 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 4: were patent or if they were trying to be more 665 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 4: reportive and painted colors. 666 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, and now that I think about the statuar subject 667 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 3: in general, I'm like, this is interesting. 668 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to figure out this conversation of 669 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 8: like this makes sense instead of just cleaning it off 670 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 8: or washing it off, which I've seen them do like 671 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 8: keeping headstones, cleans historical sites cleaned, to actually paint it, 672 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 8: Like who gave them permission to do this? 673 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 6: And I understand this for a horse, but obviously this 674 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 6: person whoever did this really loved this horse enough to 675 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 6: get this again three thousand pounds statue to be its headstone. Like, 676 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 6: I'm very shocked, and I have a lot of questions. 677 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 5: I have a lot of questions. Yeah, what did the 678 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 5: transport job from wherever else it was look like that? 679 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 4: Because I think that was still in the Chicago area, 680 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 4: so it didn't have to move far to get from 681 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 4: the place it was before to the place where the 682 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 4: horse was the horse's grave was, but it still had 683 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 4: to be transported in some ways. So it's like, you 684 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,760 Speaker 4: gotta it did a lot, but it was saying something 685 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,359 Speaker 4: how drawn he was to to it to the Clopatrick. 686 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 4: But wow, I mean, what a horse it had to have, 687 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 4: an amazing horse. 688 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 5: I love it right now. 689 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,839 Speaker 4: I think we should all get busts of ourselves. 690 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 5: Oh, I totally want I would. I would love that 691 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 5: one day when I can afford it. Let's look at 692 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 5: our budget. 693 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 3: I'm both scared and excited. Kind of my general view 694 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 3: on life anyway. 695 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 6: So wow, right, but yeah, going back to her accomplishments, 696 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 6: it is amazing. Like I said, like I'm really racking 697 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 6: my brain and processing just what she went through, how 698 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 6: much she went through, the continued fight that she had 699 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 6: to have, that she had to leave a whole country 700 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 6: in order to find peace to work rather than anything else, 701 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 6: and it still took so long to get there, and 702 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 6: then being able to do it and then still get 703 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 6: notoriety from the place she wasn't welcomed essentially, and then 704 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,720 Speaker 6: to this. But it is an amazing life and honestly 705 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 6: I didn't know too much about her, Like I heard 706 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 6: the name in the story, and yeah, I don't know 707 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,720 Speaker 6: why my brain has just latched onto everything being a movie. 708 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 5: But yeah, this feels like I'm sure there is one 709 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 5: is there one I don't know about her? 710 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 6: I feel like it should be epic, Like just her 711 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 6: doing these creations is probably a good at least a 712 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 6: fifteen minute YouTube of like a yeah, you know pace 713 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 6: together of what she's doing. 714 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 5: There's definitely no biopic. 715 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 4: We got the ideas, well, you got the ideas, and 716 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 4: we're here for support right. 717 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 6: Now. 718 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 5: I think that'd be great. 719 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 3: I'm imagining like you'll see s Grant, like just the 720 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 3: image of him sitting there and getting the bust made. 721 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 2: There's a lot very visually interesting. 722 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 4: I think also a lot to play with if we're 723 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 4: thinking about this in dramatization, for because of how much 724 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 4: she embellished, and because you already kind of have license 725 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 4: to do a lot of creation within her story. If 726 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 4: you were doing something more dramatized and fictionalized because of 727 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 4: the own embellishment that she did of her own story, 728 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 4: I feel like, well, let me not put any projecting 729 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 4: anything onto her. But it's already a part of her story. 730 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,799 Speaker 6: Fictionalization is I mean her trial alone from the college, 731 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,280 Speaker 6: that would be like a tense moment, all right, I'm 732 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 6: gonna stop, but like a moment of like seeing her 733 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 6: go fighting through these cases. 734 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 5: Mm hmm. Yeah. 735 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 4: And there is a lot more context, for instance, in 736 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,839 Speaker 4: the book that I mentioned by Kristin pie Buick about 737 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,800 Speaker 4: her role in her the significance of her being black 738 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 4: and Native American and the Haitian history that all of 739 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,919 Speaker 4: that wrapped up into her story and how she dealt 740 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 4: with that as an artist and how ripe that was 741 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 4: for people contemporary people, So how ripe that exoticization, the 742 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 4: draw of that and being able to talk about that 743 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 4: in their commentary on her, but also in scholarship about 744 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 4: her as well, just being able to look back at 745 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,879 Speaker 4: her story and say, oh, this is this is part 746 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 4: of her story, so this identity is this why she 747 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 4: did this? So there's a lot of a lot more 748 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 4: context and you can definitely go deeper into that part 749 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 4: of her story as well. 750 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And we always appreciate you bringing these stories 751 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 3: to us, Eves and doing it with such grace and 752 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 3: nuance because they are very complex. 753 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 6: Thank you. 754 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we love, We love having you and seeing 755 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 4: you in this digital way. At least once a month 756 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 4: we both get our spinty budget on some bust. 757 00:41:58,920 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 5: Commissioned. 758 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,720 Speaker 2: In the meantime, where can the listeners find you? Eves? 759 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 4: You can find me on many more episodes on this 760 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 4: very here podcast I'm talking about other female first. Also, 761 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 4: you can find me online at Evejeffcoat dot com or 762 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 4: on Instagram at not Apologizing, on Twitter at Eve's Jeffcoat 763 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,359 Speaker 4: and other podcasts as well. 764 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 3: Yes, she's out and about online and you should definitely 765 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 3: check out all the stuff Eves is doing if you 766 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 3: haven't already, And thank you once again Eve's for joining us. 767 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 3: If you would like to contact us, listeners, you can 768 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 3: or emails Stepfandia mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You 769 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 3: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or 770 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 3: on Instagram a stuff I've never told you. Thanks as 771 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 3: always to our super producer Christina, Thank you and thanks 772 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,800 Speaker 3: to you for listening stuffhe ever told you. 773 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:51,800 Speaker 2: Protection of iHeartRadio. 774 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 3: For more podcasts on my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 775 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 3: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 776 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:56,280 Speaker 3: favorite shows. 777 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 6: Ye