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Speaker 1: Quest Love Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Yo Yo, what's up, y'all? Welcome back to Part two

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Speaker 2: of the Quest Love Show. I'm Questlove in case you're lost,

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Speaker 2: and right now we're talking to the legendary James Alexander

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Speaker 2: of the legendary Barcas and James flew in from Memphis

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Speaker 2: specifically to sit down with us at iHeart Studios. And

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Speaker 2: if you haven't started with Part one, make sure you do.

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Speaker 2: In that episode, we cover all the early days of Memphis,

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Speaker 2: the birth of Soul Finger and playing behind Otis Redding

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Speaker 2: and surviving one of the most tragic moments in music history.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of music history here, so let's get started.

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Speaker 2: This is James Alexander of the Barcas celebrating.

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Speaker 3: Black History Month American History Month.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you honor this living legend of black by

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Speaker 2: listening to part two.

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Speaker 3: It makes sure you like it to subscribe us. Also,

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Speaker 3: all right, thank you for starters.

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Speaker 2: When did you even start with the idea of okay,

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Speaker 2: let's rebuild a new band? Like how long did you

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Speaker 2: take off before you was like okay, let's get to it.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: This happened in December nineteen sixty seven. By April of

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Speaker 1: sixty eight had already reformed.

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Speaker 3: A new band. How did you find these guys?

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Speaker 1: I've tried to find a guy like each and every

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Speaker 1: guy that was already that was in the group before.

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Speaker 3: Found a white guy.

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Speaker 1: They played the organ, you know, the same make the

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Speaker 1: band up of the same landups, you know, the same instrumentation,

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Speaker 1: a trumpet into tenor right in a rhythm section.

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Speaker 2: So of course there's one main jarring friends between this

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Speaker 2: band and the previous band, which is I feel one

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Speaker 2: of the most unsung frontmen in all of soul music,

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Speaker 2: really music period. First of all, how did you nab

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Speaker 2: Larry Dotson away from the Timprez, a group that themselves

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Speaker 2: were established and I believe stacks.

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Speaker 1: So they weren't established then they were trying to come

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Speaker 1: into their own. What happened was they were playing at

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Speaker 1: a nightclub, and so by this point, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, you know, came with the idea. I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's time for us to do something a

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Speaker 1: little different rather than being a totally you know, instrumental group.

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Speaker 1: So I went to this club one night. Somebody had

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Speaker 1: told me about this group called the Timprees, and I

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Speaker 1: went and heard him, and to be quite honest with us,

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Speaker 1: they alright, alright, okay, but this guy, Larry, I said, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: I just came to check y'all out because you know,

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Speaker 1: we thinking about getting you know, getting you know, getting

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Speaker 1: the vocalists.

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Speaker 3: In our group.

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Speaker 1: He said, I'm down, I said, when I said, said, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait wait wait hold up, dude, you're

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Speaker 1: moving a little too fast, I said, first, because i've

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Speaker 1: been you probably didn't know this, but see the TEMPERRIESE

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Speaker 1: was his group. Yeah, So I said, man, you know

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Speaker 1: we can meet, you know, a day or two later

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Speaker 1: and talk about this thing. No, you can talk to

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Speaker 1: me now, I said, dude. You know, you know I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to be respectful. I ain't trying to talk to

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Speaker 1: you on your gig. I'm trying to let you finish

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Speaker 1: your gig. And I talked to you tomorrow or the

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Speaker 1: next day or something like that, and I just had

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Speaker 1: to say, I'm not I'm not talking to you now.

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Speaker 3: Did that wear you that?

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Speaker 2: In an instant he was just ready to leave us

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Speaker 2: established because that could have happened to you too.

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Speaker 3: He could be in the barcades and then I'm here

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Speaker 3: I mean, I went, man, you have to understand, we're

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Speaker 3: eighteen and nineteen.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about nothing like that. Man, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think about all of that now. Got back then,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about nothing. But you know, so you know,

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Speaker 1: we finally talked and we ended up getting him in

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Speaker 1: the group. I think this is around seventy one somewhere.

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Speaker 1: I can't I can't even remote it. Anyway, I was

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Speaker 1: working with a guy that ended up being my producer

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Speaker 1: and manager, and we had started rehearsing with him.

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Speaker 2: This is Alan Jones Jones. Yeah, okay, I have a

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Speaker 2: lot of Alan Jones questions. Yeah, Jimmy jam And I

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Speaker 2: had Alan Jones questions.

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Speaker 1: I told Alan Jones, I said, man, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this guy's gonna make it, because I

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Speaker 1: know he probably would hate me for saying this, but

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Speaker 1: he really wasn't ship.

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Speaker 3: He wasn't they good v Larry Dotson. He was not

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Speaker 3: that good. Okay, No, he wouldn't that good. But it

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Speaker 3: sounds like someone I know had to learn you had

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Speaker 3: to learn the ropes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I learned the roses. I wouldn't say, you know,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I went and talk to Alan. I said, man,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Man, I don't know if this guy

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Speaker 1: gonna make it or not. Because, man, you because Alan

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Speaker 1: before the plane Chris, you know, he had just got

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Speaker 1: out of the army and he's the bass player by

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Speaker 1: the way, too, and he was trying to get in,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to get in stacks, trying to get

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Speaker 1: in something, trying to get into the barcades, trying to

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Speaker 1: get in somebody's past.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: We trying to just get in, okay, but he tried

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Speaker 1: to get involved with the original barcades. We said, you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't you know, you know, you know, because I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna tell you after we got our first hind, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I ain't gonna lie to you. We had the fucking

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Speaker 1: big head, right because you know, hey, we came we

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Speaker 1: were a square from nowhere. We came up and after

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Speaker 1: we went there all that incident, now we don't go

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Speaker 1: from that. We got a record out, we got tailor

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Speaker 1: made suits, and we got you know, five or six,

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Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars in our pocket. So we thought we

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Speaker 1: were couldn't tell you nothing, couldn't.

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Speaker 3: There me nothing.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, we came up in the era where you

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Speaker 1: your rehearse, you rehearse, you rehearse, you rehearsed, and you rehearsed,

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Speaker 1: and you rehearse some more because of the repetitiveness. You know,

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Speaker 1: I tell guys this all the time. You know, I

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Speaker 1: have some guys. We call them gig daddies. And the

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Speaker 1: gig daddy is well in this case. You know, I

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Speaker 1: hate when a guy come to rehearsal, and when you

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Speaker 1: get to the rehearsal and he comes to your rehearsal

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Speaker 1: on his way somewhere else. Man, I'm coming here, but

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Speaker 1: I need to leave. If you can't come and stay

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Speaker 1: to my rehearsals.

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Speaker 3: Though, don't come, got you right?

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Speaker 1: So but anyway, we rehearsingharse and Larry kept getting better.

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Speaker 1: He got so good until one incident. We were playing

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Speaker 1: the La Sports Arena, and this is prior to the

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Speaker 1: essential of Rick James. Man there and there were those

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Speaker 1: cell phones, but Rick James had a big I don't

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Speaker 1: even know it was a nikon or a counting camera

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Speaker 1: with a lot of lens on it. So I've been

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Speaker 1: knowing to us. Rick James was in the audience taking

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Speaker 1: pictures of Larry Dotson's every move because by this time

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Speaker 1: you know, Alan was I was gonna say gay, but no,

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Speaker 1: I think I used a better word. Eccentric. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a better word to fitting. There's a spectrum, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: masculine special, Yeah right. Anyway, I tell people all the time,

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Speaker 1: I say Rick James is a Larry Dotson on steroids.

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Speaker 3: I mean, because this whole persona.

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Speaker 2: I've always felt that Larry Dotson crawled so that Prince

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Speaker 2: could run.

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Speaker 3: Larry Dotson just had a presence.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is is that I know that before

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Speaker 2: the eighties there was kind of the spectrum that you

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Speaker 2: could lie in between. Was like your softness was your

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Speaker 2: falsetto smokey Ron Eisley soft voice, soft voice, or you're

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Speaker 2: a Growland preacher, Teddy Pendergrass or Marvin Jr. Of the Dells,

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Speaker 2: like your dad yelling at you. Yes, exactly. But I

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Speaker 2: always felt that Larry Dotson had If Hendrick sang, I

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Speaker 2: felt like that would be Larry Dotson. But even then, like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you an example. Let's take Don't Stop

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Speaker 2: Dancing to the music. That's a very unusual song. Number

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Speaker 2: one I've never heard crash Cymbals and ride cymbals use

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Speaker 2: that much. Usually the high hat, which is supposed to

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Speaker 2: be the metronome, is always silent, bleeds off the snare mic.

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Speaker 3: We have two drums on there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, if that explains it. I was about to say

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Speaker 2: it sounds like a herd of elephants, and and Larry

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Speaker 2: Dunson wouln't know that, by the way. But even what

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to do is figure out how you guys

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Speaker 2: went from your gup bucket Memphis discipline sound and the

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Speaker 2: second that you start releasing like your records like anything

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Speaker 2: before Cold Blooded.

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Speaker 3: There was an aggressive rock feel to it.

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Speaker 2: Now, most people I interviewed from the time period, it's

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Speaker 2: like it's okay, Slide was.

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Speaker 3: In this influence.

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Speaker 2: Hendrix was an influence, but you guys like, it's one

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Speaker 2: thing when your guitarist is loud. I e Ernie Eisley

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Speaker 2: like Osley Brothers a soul, but Ernie's loud right, Funkadelic's funky.

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Speaker 2: But you guys as a unit were more aggressive, more

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Speaker 2: louder than anything.

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Speaker 3: And I was trying to figure out what it was.

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Speaker 2: At first I thought, Okay, was it the fact that

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Speaker 2: the engineer didn't know better than use compression like everything's loud.

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Speaker 2: Never heard drums that loud. It sounds like I heard

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Speaker 2: of elephants? Like what was just the modus operandi in

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Speaker 2: terms of.

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Speaker 3: Of how we should sound? Were you trying to break

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Speaker 3: out of the We trying to break out of the pack.

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Speaker 3: We tried to break out of the pack.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know way what pack that was, because

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Speaker 1: God riscis so Me and Maurice Slide have had just

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Speaker 1: as countless ours conversations about I missed that guess so

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Speaker 1: much because it was kind of like we had a

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Speaker 1: lot of one bad leader to the other conversations.

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Speaker 2: Your directions are very similar, both from Memphis, both had

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Speaker 2: original bands, both lost the original bands, and both had

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Speaker 2: to rebuild the band. Basically go into the right define

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Speaker 2: the seventies. Are you age wise? Were you slightly older

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Speaker 2: than the cats that you hired.

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Speaker 3: Didn't you? Guys? Yes? No, we were still all around

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Speaker 3: the same age.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Mars was like ten years older than the

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Speaker 2: rest of Earth Wind and Fire.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, And but now you know the guys I

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Speaker 1: have now of course younger.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and I'm kind of like the og.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I got to tell you this a little

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Speaker 1: funny story. I said, because I got two or three

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Speaker 1: bass players in mind, I'm gonna get this big king's chair.

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Speaker 1: I would sit up on the throne with a grobo

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Speaker 1: and a crown and with a magic wand to say.

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Speaker 3: And just leave the band.

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Speaker 1: That's some bull, but I mean, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about it anyway. As old people say, as lone,

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Speaker 1: as the blood is running warm in my veins and

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Speaker 1: I don't get off the riders of her fingers or

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Speaker 1: something like that, I will still trying to do it.

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Speaker 2: What was the first session that the new version of

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Speaker 2: the Barcades did outside of the Barcades, Like, because of

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Speaker 2: course Isaac is also in the sidelines, like he talking

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Speaker 2: about the hot buttered soul sessions, and.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, you know, Don Davis came around, you know,

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Speaker 1: Al Bell started using us. Sometimes we played on some

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Speaker 1: like I can't even think of the song right now,

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Speaker 1: when we played on some some B sides of staples singers.

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Speaker 3: But most of the staple singer stuff were done in

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Speaker 3: most of the shows. Let's see. Uh, we played on some

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Speaker 3: Eddie Floyd records.

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Speaker 1: But the person that used us a lot in the

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Speaker 1: studio initially as a rhythm section was Rufus Thomas.

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Speaker 3: So it's that you guys on.

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Speaker 1: That's that's our rhythm sex ah and okay, the two,

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Speaker 1: the two, the breakdown, no breakdown, believe it or not.

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Speaker 3: The breakdown was the Isaacca's movement. That was his rhythm section.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the Funky Chicken and push and pull, and then

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Speaker 1: I can't even remember the land up on the Memphis train.

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Speaker 1: You know, train number one is gone, Yes, train number

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Speaker 1: two is being I played based on that.

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Speaker 3: But I can't remember who else was on that session.

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Speaker 1: You know, by this time, you know, I started getting high,

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Speaker 1: so I started to.

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Speaker 2: Say, you're young and it's the psychedelic sixties. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: So how are you guys adjusting to that part of

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Speaker 2: rock star life?

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Speaker 3: To be quite honest with you, we were a hot mess.

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Speaker 1: I remember back during the time we were working on

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Speaker 1: Black Rock was also during the time when it was

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Speaker 1: drafting people. And I got a letter from the draft board,

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Speaker 1: so I had to go down to the draft board.

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Speaker 1: So I put on one of my outfits that I

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Speaker 1: were on stage, and I smoked I half a joint

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Speaker 1: of angel Thus.

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Speaker 3: And I went down to stare them. No.

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Speaker 1: I you know, when the physician came in to, you know,

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Speaker 1: do the examination.

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Speaker 3: I said, what are you doing to me?

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Speaker 1: And I had this cape on and I had like

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Speaker 1: a zoro head on the you know, a mask, and

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Speaker 1: they fell for that, like okay. No. After they called on,

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Speaker 1: they said, you know, call the police. And when they

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Speaker 1: did that, I ran up out of there. And all

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Speaker 1: I can remember is I ran around the corner and

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Speaker 1: went into a phone boot and I think I called

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Speaker 1: I called my girlfriend or something like that. I said,

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Speaker 1: I man, this phone boove around here, come pick me up.

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Speaker 1: And I got picked up. Now, madam, I'm hound angel

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Speaker 1: Us got you. And also I had this guy told

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Speaker 1: me that some man get you some lunum for and

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Speaker 1: take you know, maybe you know seven eight little small

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Speaker 1: pieces take it and drinking and swallowing. So when they

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Speaker 1: do an examination you, they look at your stone, they

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Speaker 1: see this a luna four and there's something's wrong with

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Speaker 1: this guy.

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Speaker 2: How long was it until they were like, no, he's

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Speaker 2: not fit for fighting.

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Speaker 3: They didn't call back no more. They didn't call me

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Speaker 3: no more.

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Speaker 2: So Verdie White told me a story that he starved

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Speaker 2: himself until he was ninety six pounds. They were trying

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Speaker 2: to draft him into the army, and he took three

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Speaker 2: weeks to starve himself to like ninety six pounds, and

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Speaker 2: they went into He's not gonna.

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Speaker 3: Let it take that much. That our Little Richard story too,

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Speaker 3: Give me all the stories. What else? Fourteen?

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Speaker 1: Now the man you just learned how to play bass

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Speaker 1: a little bit. So Little Richard is in Nashville at

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Speaker 1: a club called in you Era, a club at this

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Speaker 1: time Jimmy Hendrix's playing guitar, Billy Cox is playing bass.

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Speaker 3: So they quit and moved to London.

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Speaker 1: So Little Richard got this, you know, this residency gig

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Speaker 1: at this club in Nashville. So he found out about

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Speaker 1: this little young base player down in Memphis, and he says,

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Speaker 1: we want to try him out. So now I go

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Speaker 1: and ask my dad. I said, Dad, I got an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to play with Little Richard. Will you please drive

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Speaker 1: me to Nashville? And guess what my dad? My dad

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Speaker 1: said hell no, I.

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Speaker 3: Said, Dad, why?

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Speaker 1: I said, this is the golden opportunity And he said no.

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Speaker 1: I said why Dad? He said, because he assists it

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Speaker 1: not gay not he said, not e centric or nothing

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Speaker 1: like that, you know, older people. Then I said, Dad, please,

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Speaker 1: So I finally convinced him. So, my dad had a

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Speaker 1: forty four magnum Have you ever seen one of those?

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Speaker 3: I do long barrow.

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Speaker 1: I loaded it up, put it under the front seat

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Speaker 1: of his car and drove me to Nashville to this club.

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Speaker 1: So Nashville is about now. It's about about a three

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Speaker 1: hour drive from Nashville to Memphis. Memphis to Nashville's about

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Speaker 1: a three hour drive back then it took about four

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Speaker 1: and a half hours because it was not expressway all

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Speaker 1: the way.

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Speaker 3: Gotcha.

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Speaker 1: So he drove me to the club and walked me

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Speaker 1: to the door, and he said, I'm gonna be out

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Speaker 1: in the car sleep.

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Speaker 3: But he said, it's just like this.

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Speaker 1: He said, that's just to say anything out of the

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Speaker 1: way that you you come out here and get me.

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Speaker 3: And I killed this a little bit, and he was serious.

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Speaker 1: Well, he was here to tell you at the time

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Speaker 1: that I played with little Richard. Little Richard never said

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Speaker 1: anything out of the way to me.

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Speaker 2: You just brought up isac case and I forgot about something.

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Speaker 2: How did the idea of son and chef start.

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Speaker 3: Son a chef came from?

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Speaker 1: To be quite honest with you, we were trying to

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Speaker 1: find ourselfs okay, And we had recorded Chef with Isaac

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Speaker 1: Cays and.

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Speaker 3: Alan Jones was kind of like a visionary.

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Speaker 1: We would have these grown conversations about stuff. In fact,

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Speaker 1: most of the songs that you hear the bark as

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Speaker 1: they came out of hours sitting up in the rest rut. Well,

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Speaker 1: you may not stay in the rest rut that long.

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Speaker 1: You sitting in the restrut and the waitress. Really, we

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Speaker 1: leave so somebody else can occupy this space. When you

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Speaker 1: said that, what can.

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Speaker 3: I help you? You want something else? Yeah, can bring

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Speaker 3: me another right, right, right?

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Speaker 1: Ordered nothing to just give the cocals, right, But we

333
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Speaker 1: said in riskurants for hours and hours, that was your office.

334
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Speaker 1: Just talk back, Yeah, gotcha, go back and forth. That's

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Speaker 1: how a lot of ideas and songs came up.

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Speaker 2: I always wanted to know the inside joke with Jimmy

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Speaker 2: Jamini is the method of the bar Kays kind of

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Speaker 2: song cannon and how songs sound like other songs. But

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Speaker 2: here's the deal. So I've been on a late night

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Speaker 2: show seventeen years now.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: You know the thing is is that I'm also in

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Speaker 2: hip hop, so I don't necessarily see it with the

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Speaker 2: same scope that someone outside of hip hop would see it.

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Speaker 2: Cause again it's like you could listen to fighting Fire

346
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Speaker 2: with Fire. I clearly hear the ad libs of the

347
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 2: Ojys when the World's at Peace live version from Live

348
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:14,399
Speaker 2: to London or whatever, even with shine sound like on

349
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,560
Speaker 2: your face or you know, or shake it from to

350
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Speaker 2: the front or whatever. I do this practice a lot,

351
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Speaker 2: which is I'll put a song on for ten seconds right,

352
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 2: turned it up, then I'll stop it, and then I'll

353
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Speaker 2: let like a minute go by, and then I'll be like,

354
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Speaker 2: all right, let's start to play something. So even without

355
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Speaker 2: like something, the band would catch on what I would do,

356
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,680
Speaker 2: but I purposely would play a song loud away so

357
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Speaker 2: the influences in their head and then they start to

358
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Speaker 2: mold it into another song. Is what is the process

359
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Speaker 2: for which you guys are conducting songwriting sessions for this

360
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Speaker 2: level of barks that I will.

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Speaker 1: Tell you really what we did because we were a band,

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Speaker 1: and you know, in the clubs, we were pretty much

363
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Speaker 1: like a lot of bands, a cover band, okay, So

364
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Speaker 1: we always made it a practice or whatever the hot

365
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,439
Speaker 1: songs were, we would learn them and then sometimes to

366
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: start our writing sessions, we might play two or three

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Speaker 1: hot songs, right, and then maybe this happens with a

368
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Speaker 1: lot of bands, but we were the type band. If

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Speaker 1: you play us, you could play on your face whatever

370
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 1: the song may be, over and over again, and eventually

371
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Speaker 1: we would end up playing away from it. If it

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00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 1: makes any sense, then that But see, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: flipping it. But the flipping that you talked about and

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Speaker 1: the flipping that I'm talking about is two different things.

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Speaker 1: My flipping is because of the and I don't mean this,

376
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Speaker 1: I don't negatively or anything. But when we play stuff

377
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Speaker 1: so repetitive over and over and over again, it starts

378
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: sounding it takes song.

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Speaker 3: The life of us, if that makes sense of sense? Gotcha?

380
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 1: In other words, I could be played the same baseline

381
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 1: that Verdein plays and it's gonna sound different from the

382
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: way Verdein plays it because I'm different from Verdein, which

383
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 1: that's a whole nother story.

384
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Speaker 3: Because we have a base. I got you, I got you.

385
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 3: What year did you sign to.

386
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 1: Mercury in nineteen seventy six? Why did you choose Mercury?

387
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: We didn't choose Mercury. Mercury chose us. Now what happened

388
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: is the whole recording situation was way different than than

389
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 1: than what it ended up being. Stax Records closed in

390
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five.

391
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Speaker 2: And there's one question I wanted to ask about that because,

392
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 2: I mean, you mentioned the hippo drum and you mentioned

393
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Speaker 2: Al Bell. How did al Bell wind up being the

394
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Speaker 2: default leader of Stack?

395
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 1: Like?

396
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 2: What was this role in Stax if Stax was already

397
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 2: being operated by someone else?

398
00:21:58,960 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 3: Like?

399
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 1: How did Al Bell Jim Steward moved Al Bell to

400
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: Memphis from Washington, d C. Al Bell was a DJ

401
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. And he had one artist. I mean,

402
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: he had aspirations of being in the record bit and

403
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: see back then, Okay, he had one artist that I

404
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: know of.

405
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 3: He may have had another one.

406
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: He had another artist, but I can't think of his name,

407
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: but he had Eddie Floyd. Eddie Floyd moved to Memphis

408
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 1: with Albell. Okay, but he had another artist.

409
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: I can't think of the artist an amis called the

410
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 3: good Thing Man. Oh Frank Lucy. Was that his name?

411
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 3: Frank Lucas? Yeah, okay, there you go. So Frank Lucas

412
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 3: was the good thing Man.

413
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, the good thing Man. So Al Bell when he

414
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 1: moved to Memphis, Jim Steward. No, he needed because he

415
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: was dealing with predominantly black music. He needed somebody black

416
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: to go in unicating smooth things out. And so the

417
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: weird part about the whole thing is when Albell moved

418
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: to Memphis. I don't know what if Sarah was, but

419
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: they only had one telephone, so Jimp stew would be

420
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: on the phone and al would need to make some

421
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: phone calls like this, so he had to wait to

422
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: jump still get other phones they could use the phone.

423
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,719
Speaker 3: Got you going back and forth one phone line operation? Yeah, right, gotcha.

424
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Speaker 1: But Albill was just a unique guy. I mean a

425
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: lot of people don't know. I mean when you get

426
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 1: people like Barry Gordy. When Barry Gordon moved to California

427
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: and Barry Gordon didn't do his way around, he called

428
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: Albill to come and help him navigate, you know, how

429
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: to operate gotch the record company.

430
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 2: So, speaking of California, there's a very important question I

431
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 2: forgot to ask you. Probably two of the films that

432
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: I'm associated with are inspired by a movie that year

433
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: in I'm talking about Dave Chapale's Block Party and of

434
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: course Summer. So can you walk me through the process

435
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: of what the Watstacks concert was for you? Was that

436
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: just a regular concert and no big.

437
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 3: Deal or no?

438
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: When they told us that we were going to be

439
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 1: involved with it, you know, even back then, we were

440
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: trying to figure out a way to upstage. As you know,

441
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: as a case was the undisputed headliner of that particular show, gotcha.

442
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: So we went to California and we went down and

443
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: where they had all the costumes and all that stuff

444
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: like that. Now, O tell you what we wanted to

445
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: do in the Los Angeles Coliseum. We wanted to rent

446
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 1: some horses and chariots and ride into the Los Angeles Coliseum,

447
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: ride up to the stage, and then jump off the

448
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: horses and carriage and run up on this stage. Because

449
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: you know, we had an all white Yeah, some of

450
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: us had cape song. And so the Los Angeles called

451
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: to see him. We're not gonna let you miss our turf,

452
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: you know, miss out grass and stuff up. And then

453
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: plus Isaac Cayes believed or not found out about it,

454
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: and he said.

455
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 3: He don't know. No, did he ever say he was

456
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 3: the headliner? Yeah, he had to say. Yeah, he had

457
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 3: to say.

458
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: Now, man, you it makes no difference what we were

459
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: the one that backed him on all the eight Isaacay's

460
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: albums and all of that.

461
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 3: That that didn't make any difference.

462
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: I mean, because now he's the superstar Isaac's which me

463
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: and him, you know, we had a big falling out

464
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: on one of his sessions.

465
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 3: He did, Oh yeah, what session.

466
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: I don't I can't remember the session, but what it

467
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: all amounted to was Isaac always like to record at night, right,

468
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: And to be quite honest, I'm a I'm a.

469
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 3: Freaking sleepy head. Okay, you know, night is the time

470
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 3: to go to bed.

471
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: But he always liked to start the session around seven

472
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: o'clock at night, right. So this one night, I mean,

473
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: we went the session, you know, and tuned up, were

474
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: getting around waiting, waiting on the Maestro to appear. Eight

475
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: o'clock comes by, still no nine o'clock, still no Isi.

476
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: Ten o'clock, still no AI. Eleven o'clock. So I gets

477
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: up and I tell the people, I said, look y'all,

478
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: the hell with this, I'm out of here.

479
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: I left and they said, man, where you going? I said,

480
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 3: ben elf Isaac. I left.

481
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: And that particular day, these guys at another studio called

482
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: Lynn Lue Recording Studio and invited me over to their studio.

483
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: They wanted me to play bass on a record by

484
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: Tony Joe White.

485
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 3: I don't know if you ever heard of him before.

486
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: You may have heard of the record Poke Salern Annie

487
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: Poke Salad, Annie Poke Salinn Annie.

488
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 3: Never heard of this. I got to look it up.

489
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: Ton Is your White recorded first, but Elvis Presley did

490
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:06,239
Speaker 1: a remake of it.

491
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 3: Got You Okay?

492
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: So we recorded that song. It was a number one

493
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: pop record, okay. So I recorded that record with ton

494
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: Joe White. So he had another song that he wanted

495
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: to record, but the rhythm section was They said, man,

496
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: I got this. I got one more song that I

497
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: need to record, but we don't have the money to

498
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: I don't have the money to pay y'all on it.

499
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: So so you know, it's like a football thing, you know,

500
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: the rhythm section. We hold, man, what we gonna do?

501
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: And somebody said, well, man, you know what we already here,

502
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: so so sof let's go record the song. And you

503
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: know what the song was, hit me Rainy Night in Georgia. Really, yo,

504
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: what happened? Tones Joe White wrote Rainy Night in Georgia.

505
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: We did the demo and then gave it. The Brook

506
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: Atlantic Records liked the demo so well they took Tony

507
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: Joe White's voice off and put put Ben's voice on

508
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: and put the strings on it. But well, that's you guys, Yeah, I.

509
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 3: Mean that's people. I mean I was the only black

510
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: gw on that.

511
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: It was the white rental section that that recorded on

512
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: Tony Joe White Scott.

513
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: They just wanted me to play basse but I never

514
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 3: was available.

515
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: So because Isaac Case didn't show up, I just took

516
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: that opportunity to to just say the hell with it.

517
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: That went over to that session. Did he eventually show

518
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: up or I don't know. I didn't never did go

519
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: back that day and that that and that was the

520
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: last time. Now whether he still used me for a

521
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: while later, but he was working on getting you know,

522
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: getting somebody else to replace my ass.

523
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 3: At that point, I didn't really care.

524
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: It didn't make any difference, you know, I didn't care,

525
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: all right, So you were told no chariots, no.

526
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: If you will again, is there any nervousness whatsoever if

527
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: you're playing an event, like if I'm playing that event,

528
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: I'm worried about if everyone knows who we are, if

529
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: everyone knows the songs or oh we were.

530
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 3: Kind of you.

531
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: No, we didn't think about all that. But I have

532
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: to tell you they're playing washtacks. At the beginning, I

533
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: was beyond butterflies.

534
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: I was scared of shit. What were you nervous about?

535
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I ain't never played in front of that

536
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: many people before. I mean it was one hundred thousand

537
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: people over there.

538
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: What was the feeling like seeing the final product on

539
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: the screen, the movie?

540
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was one of the most

541
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: clever things that had ever happened. Which incidentally, Concord Records

542
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: their headquarters was in Beverley Hills. Gotcha, FYI Concorders moved

543
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: their headquarters from Beverly Hills to Nashville.

544
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, with Fantasy Records. Yeah. So one of my label

545
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: people Collin right there.

546
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: So in the lobby of Concord workers in Nashville, Like

547
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: the lobby may be big as this room.

548
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 3: The whole wall.

549
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: Is a picture of the barks what stacks. So my

550
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:22,959
Speaker 1: attorney's in Nashville too, Okay, so he's cooking up something

551
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: to use.

552
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 3: That to our advantage.

553
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: Oh, got you, because y'all must think something of us,

554
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: even though it's of old enough to put our picture

555
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: of the let's do something or something'll see what happens.

556
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So I have a question about the last

557
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: Stacks album. Now, usually what labels will do, there's two

558
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: ways to go about it. One of course is if

559
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: an artist dies, they'll release a posthumous record like whatever

560
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: was left over in the vaults, will cook something together,

561
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: will sweeten it, new album by Otis Redding, you know

562
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: what I mean, They'll have a posthumous record. But then

563
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: on the other side of that coin is what I

564
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: call cash in records. So Motown was notorious for this

565
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: because look, I'm a young Jackson five fan. We all

566
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: know the story that in nineteen seventy five they left

567
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: the label. Of course, Michael Jackson becomes God six seven

568
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: years later, but on the route to that, Motown is

569
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: still releasing what I call cash in records. What they're

570
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 2: contractually allowed to do. Whatever's in the vaults, just keep releasing.

571
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 3: Now.

572
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: You know again, I'm made nine, ten years old, so

573
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh, the Jacksons must be recording for Epic

574
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: and Motown at the same time. My dad explains, no,

575
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: Motown's just trying to cash in. Now that Michael's more

576
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: popular now like Let's cash In. So I always saw

577
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: the Money Talks album, as you know, it's nothing new.

578
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: When Ohio Players went to Mercury, west Bound was still

579
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: releasing Ohio Players records. When Funkadelic went to Warner Brothers.

580
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: West Bound is still releasing Funkadelic records that they're contractually obligated.

581
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: But the difference in nineteen seventy eight, and I believe

582
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: this is either when Enjoy or Shine comes out, is

583
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: Money Talks gets released at the same time, and which,

584
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: in my opinion, contains my all time favorite song, which

585
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: I consider your best song, which is Holy Ghost. You

586
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: guys do something different that no other band does with

587
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: their cash in record, which is you went out and

588
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: actually promoted it as if normally. Again, it's like they're

589
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: trying to cash in on us. Warner Brothers did it

590
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: the earth Wind and Fire they blew up Warner Brothers

591
00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 2: re releasing that, you know catalog if Money Talks was

592
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: essentially a whatever's left in the vaults compilation long after

593
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: you guys went to Mercury. First of all, how do

594
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: Mercury feel about you guys doing this? And why wasn't

595
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: Holy Ghosts just on a Mercury record.

596
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: First of all, Holy Ghost was not on a Mercury

597
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: record because it was still owned by Fantasy Gotcha. And

598
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,239
Speaker 1: you know, if you know anything about record covers back

599
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: in those days, they weren't having it.

600
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 3: They kind of like this owned it.

601
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 2: So Stax gave all their vault to Fantasy once they no.

602
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: The any give its I mean just Fantasy inherited the ketalogue,

603
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: gotcha and bought it or whatever.

604
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: Whatever happened. So you were told this is coming out.

605
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't know about it until after they said, Man,

606
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: have you heard this? They just did a couple of

607
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: two or three overdose on it.

608
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, But what I'm asking is, did they present it

609
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: to you or was it like, let's fix it up

610
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: a little bit and then you put it out.

611
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 3: No, it was already fixed and they told us about it.

612
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: So you're telling me that Holy Ghost when did y'all

613
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: record that? It came out in seventy eight? But what

614
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: year did y'all really record that?

615
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: Probably seventy three or seventy three or seventy four somewhere

616
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: we recorded them before stacks closed, and y'all.

617
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: Were just like and whatever, Yeah, what the hell.

618
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I seriously, I mean, see, you have to understand

619
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: that because we were just in the studio all the time.

620
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: We didn't really know I mean still at that point,

621
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: we didn't know what we were doing. We were just doing something, man.

622
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: We just get in the studio and do something, I

623
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: mean skipping around.

624
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 3: You know. I talked to Marcus Miller all the time,

625
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 3: and he told me that.

626
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: Man, he said, me and Luther used to sit up

627
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: and listen to Isaac Hay's records. He said, the idea

628
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: of Luther doing a cover song on every album came

629
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: from every time I see him. I mean, man, we

630
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: sit down and talk for hours and hours.

631
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 3: Man.

632
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 1: In fact, we've done a couple of bass clinics together

633
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: that was officiated by Kirk Whale. A guy asked him

634
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: and which it really made me feel kind of good

635
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: because we had a bass players workshop and we had

636
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: about forty bass players there. The music stores donated some

637
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: practice amps. He told the bass players that could bring

638
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: their acts with him. Got you and this one guy,

639
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: you know, young dude, he's playing a six string bas

640
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: I said, dude's planning a six string. I'm still trying

641
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: to learn how to play four strings. But anyway, he

642
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: asked Marcus Milly said, man, who were some of the

643
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: people that you used to listen to when you was

644
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: growing up? And he said, man, you know what. One

645
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: of them was right here in the building and said

646
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: who is that? He said, change all that, man, I

647
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: almost fell out the chair.

648
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: Have you heard yourself play on the Holy Ghost? I

649
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 3: don't pay no attention to that stuff. Man.

650
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 2: When my parents would go on the road, I would

651
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: say at my grandmother's house, and I lived next door

652
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: to a DJ, and we had thin walls in southwest Philadelphia,

653
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 2: so whenever he's practicing, I could hear it clearly in

654
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: my bedroom and he would extend that drum break for

655
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 2: hours practicing on Holy Ghost. I mean, well, you know,

656
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: and for you that's just a shrug, like is that

657
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 2: song even in the repertoire today, Like.

658
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: Oh yo, this is it's just it's a muss play.

659
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 3: Okay. I'm glad you reas acknowledged that it's it's a

660
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: musplay song in the repertoire.

661
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: In fact, I was somewhere Jimmy jam was there and

662
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: he said, man, And then I had this whole hour

663
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: and a half conversation with him about that song because

664
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: he said, man, when I was a DJ, and you know,

665
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: he went to that hole spield and all of that.

666
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: So and then then we were talking back and forth

667
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: because a flight time we played Minneapolis one time and

668
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: they opened for us.

669
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 3: This was back when the time opened up for the

670
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 3: bar case. No, a flight time, Oh, flight time opened

671
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: up for it.

672
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 1: Okay, this is when Alexander O'Niel was the lead, say gotcha,

673
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: And I was in the dressing room.

674
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 3: I was always intrigged by Terry Lewis.

675
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: And in fact, three of my I mean, believe it

676
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: or not, I mean Larry Graham, you know, like him,

677
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: but three of my favorite bass players it's Terry Lewis,

678
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: Robert Wilson. Okay, and cool there you go. Okay, they

679
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: don't do much, but what they do, they don't have

680
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: to do much. It's so tasty. So I mean Robert Wilson,

681
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: I mean that. I mean God rest is soul. It's

682
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: just something special.

683
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 2: I want to know what the touring circuit was like

684
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: in the seventies, all right, you told me the cameo story.

685
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: At this time when like p Funk is using afrofuturists motifs,

686
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: and spaceships and characters and freaky aliens and stuff like that,

687
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 2: and earth wind and fire is using magic tricks and

688
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 2: all those things.

689
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: What are you guys thinking.

690
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 2: On the sidelines, Like, how are you figuring out what

691
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: your plan of attack is? I mean, besides an occasional

692
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: appearance on either rock concert or soul train or something

693
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 2: like that, I've not seen a good representation of like

694
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: your live show in the mid seventies.

695
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 3: And when I look at the back cover of Too

696
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 3: How To Stop, and you see the smoke and.

697
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, the girl on the floor and

698
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: all that stuff. I always wanted to know what your

699
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: live show was like in the seventies.

700
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: You know, we would you know, we would have powro

701
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: and and you know they didn't you know, back in

702
00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 1: those days, they didn't have fog machines. So I'll tell

703
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: you we got the idea of using smoking all that

704
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: stuff like that. We got that idea from believe it

705
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: or not, I continue the turner, okay, because let me

706
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: tell you something. Even though I continue the turner, back

707
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: in those days, they didn't have the repertoire for the

708
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: you know, recorded music.

709
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 3: They will act that you didn't want to go on behind?

710
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: Really they were act that you didn't want to go behind,

711
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: and Lord knows in the DC area you did not

712
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: want to go on behind Chuck Brown?

713
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 2: Is it cheating if Chuck Brown gets added to the lineup?

714
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 3: Is it fair because he owns the DMV, he owns DC.

715
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 2: So for you though, like, are you guys fully aware

716
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 2: that a man like they're coming on?

717
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: Like we gotta okay? You said, DC? What is the

718
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: best city for the bar case as far as shows

719
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 1: are concerned, Probably DC Chocolate City. What's the hardest city

720
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: to penetrate? What's the hardest? I would say in New York.

721
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 3: We're too cool for that. I mean, this is cold.

722
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: But our strongest overall is the West Coast. Even to

723
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: this day we have a huge uh Latino following. In fact,

724
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: in the course of a year, we'll probably go to

725
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: the West Coast, somewhere on the West coast, be it

726
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: La Oakland, Services, Gold, San Diego, somewhere on the West coast,

727
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: seven or eight times a year.

728
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 3: Somewhere got you because they.

729
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: Just I mean, hey, So, the one thing that I

730
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: noticed about this band that most bands don't do is

731
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 2: evolve and pivot. Now, I've seen every iteration of this band.

732
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 2: I've seen the bar Kayes as a new jack swing

733
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 2: trio in the nineties. I've seen the adjustment to the eighties.

734
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 2: I thought was you know, like in Philly, sex Omatic

735
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: got played every hour on black radio in Philly.

736
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 3: Because the thing is, if you.

737
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: Get a winning formula, sometimes that's your comfort zone. You

738
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 2: want to stick with it, and then sometimes you gotta

739
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 2: let go and wipe the slate clean and do something else.

740
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 2: So you know, when you guys are leaving the era

741
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 2: in which you know, the idea of fourteen member bands

742
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 2: and all these things like the eighties are coming.

743
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 3: Technology is coming into place.

744
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: Like can you talk about like the making of like

745
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 2: the Contagious Record, and like in in that that early

746
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 2: eighties period when you guys are adjusting to drummer scenes,

747
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: to synthesizers and to all those things, Like how easy

748
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: or hard is it to adjust not doing what was

749
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: killing two years ago at the LA Forum.

750
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, it was not that hard because

751
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: my thing has always been about, let's try to do

752
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 1: whatever works. I mean, you know, I learned a lot

753
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: coming up in the beginning being around jazz musicians, A

754
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 1: pure jazz musician. The stuff that we ended up doing.

755
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you had these die hard jazz musicians,

756
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: and man, I wouldn't do that. I don't give a

757
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: damn how much money you make, you know, you know

758
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: those musicians like that, I'm a jazz I'm gonna do

759
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: jazz until I die. Well with me, bullshit, I'm gonna

760
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: do something big, you know, make some money. So it

761
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: wasn't all that hard to adjust. It's just because you

762
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: have to understand that. For instance, are you for me

763
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: with art recording studios. No, it's in Memphis, Tennessee. It's

764
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 1: owned by John Fry, It's probably Yeah, it's the well

765
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: Audit Recording Studio probably is the most technolog.

766
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: Well now technically advanced studio in town.

767
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: In fact, now I stand to be corrected, but I

768
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: think it ranked rates number two in the world, behind

769
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: Abbey Road.

770
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 3: Got You.

771
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 1: We hold the record for being at Audit Recording.

772
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 3: Studio the most.

773
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: In other words, it would be nothing for us to

774
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: go in the studio and block book the studio for

775
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: three months or four months.

776
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 3: To all the records would be recorded there.

777
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: All the records after Stacks closed, all the records after

778
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: that was recorded at Audums now.

779
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 3: Privor to stacks closing.

780
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: We talked Jim Stewart and Albail into letting us go

781
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: for a period and record in La at the record plant,

782
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: a little bit in uh La, but mostly in San Francisco.

783
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 1: It's you know sarce Alito. Yeah, okay, because with sarce Alito,

784
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: when you booked the studio a Sarcelito, you get the

785
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: house and the boat.

786
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 3: So James talked about this.

787
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 2: I know Prince recorded his first two records in the

788
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 2: salce Alito record plant.

789
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 3: So you get the house in the boat.

790
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: So we recorded a lot there and I'm gonna tell

791
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: you why.

792
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 3: You show y'all, I don't want I don't know what

793
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 3: it called it done or what.

794
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: We looked at the back of the album covers and

795
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: we said, if Stevie Wonder recorded uh his ship at

796
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: the at at at the record plant, and if the

797
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: Eyes of Rose recorded this stuff it uh and they

798
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: and they used these guys that that were doing all

799
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: this programming, you know, CIVI sized programming. More that if

800
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: we recorded if Sly records at the record plant, this

801
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: is where we need to be recorded.

802
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 3: You should go there.

803
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: But but little did we know that it wasn't the studio,

804
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: it was the cats in the study udio. We I mean,

805
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: you know we had we had wrapped our brain around

806
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: that part of it, right, But yeah, but the art.

807
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: And studios, Okay, it was fun in this situation. And

808
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 2: you mentioned about the idea of a democracy for this period.

809
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 2: Are you the alpha member of the band that makes

810
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: the our decisions or is it like, all right, all

811
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: of us get to say, all eight of us or

812
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: nine of us get to say you mean.

813
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no no now no.

814
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: But back then, back then, yeah, I mean it was

815
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: kind of like the majority of rules. I mean, if

816
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: it was nine people, you had to have five votes.

817
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 2: And are these things for like small things like uh,

818
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 2: sequence of the album or yeah, all of.

819
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: That, all of that this single should be first? Or

820
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: I had a little bore saying that because I just

821
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 1: had the instinct about that song myself and Alan Jones,

822
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: But even I gave him a lot of instinct because

823
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: I have to tell you this for the story you

824
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: heard the song called Attitudes by Yeah, is this attitude

825
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: describes you?

826
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 3: What else you want to be might not be what

827
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: the people see.

828
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: It's up to your adage attitude to describe the real you.

829
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 3: But anyway, we got to fight.

830
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: We got into we got into a fistfight on that

831
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: song because the producer was in this studio. He was

832
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: in the control room and we were out on the

833
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: floor and the song is like about about two minutes

834
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: and twenty seconds long. He wanted us to keep going

835
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: right and half of us we got the signals all this,

836
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 1: so half of the people stopped and half people got going.

837
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 3: And so it came into men, man, where'd you stop? Man?

838
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 3: We didn't know?

839
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: Oh man, yeah, you fucked us all up? Man, and

840
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: all that we get we get out of my face,

841
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it turned into a brawl.

842
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: Ready in the middle, you guys together or the group

843
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: so we were all out on the floor. Turned into

844
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: a problem we had. We we ended the session that day.

845
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: We couldn't do nothing else.

846
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: This is on Flying High on your Love album.

847
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 3: Yeah after two I have to stop. Yeah okay, So

848
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 3: when when.

849
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 2: A conflict happens, how does it get resolved the next day?

850
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 1: Uh, we come to the studio and we just listen,

851
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:42,720
Speaker 1: listen to stuff.

852
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's almost like nothing happened. The day before.

853
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, hey, man, we ain't and everybody

854
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: sail you know, we ain't nobody holding no blast like

855
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 1: that you covered a hickey on your head or bloody

856
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: nose or whatever. I mean, we come back and try

857
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: to do it again, you know what I mean.

858
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: Of the albums and in that period, like what is

859
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 2: your what is your favorite? And I know you're gonna

860
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: be like, once I make them, then it's behind me.

861
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: Well, I think it would have to be Night Cruising,

862
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: and uh, because that album we did something that we

863
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 1: don't normally do. Night Cruising was one of those albums

864
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: that we rehearsed on it for about a couple of weeks.

865
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: We rehearsed every song then and uh and and demoed it.

866
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: So we went to the studio. I mean we I

867
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,720
Speaker 1: think we record that whole album in uh, a little

868
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: under two weeks.

869
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 3: His run is on Night Cruising, correct, I think?

870
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: So okay, we called the whole album and almost in

871
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: less than two weeks. Because see here's his name. He

872
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: was on tour and back then the record company. You know,

873
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: actually you get penalized if your turning date is a

874
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: certain day. I mean, we were so notorious until if

875
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: we didn't turn the record in on a particular day

876
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: that we supposed.

877
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 3: To turn it in while we were good. Find like

878
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 3: they would hold back money. Yeah, they hold back money

879
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 3: from our recording fund.

880
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: Say we was getting one hundred and fifty thousand for

881
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: the recording fun they hold back ten thousand and that.

882
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: And so you know, a couple of times we ended

883
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: up being upsid down. I mean, we owed more money

884
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: than we had to finish paying with.

885
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 2: As I said earlier, the eighties proved to be kind

886
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 2: of a hard time for some bands and some acts

887
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: to hang on unless they went totally crossover. I mean,

888
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of the Black seventies funk acts,

889
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: sole acts adjusted, porn and Sisters adjusted, Corner Gang adjusted.

890
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: A lot of people went solo in the seventies. Michael

891
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: went solo, Lino, Richie went solo. Was there any point

892
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 2: where Larry felt like I could do this on my

893
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: own or like you guys stayed together.

894
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 3: Though, And that's the thing, Like we stayed together over

895
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 3: forty years. What's the key to that? We just had

896
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 3: We just had a.

897
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: Mutual respect for each other up until you know, maybe

898
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, when he retired several years ago in twenty seventeen,

899
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: and then he decided to come back out as Larry Dowson.

900
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 3: Well, he wanted to come back out as the bar

901
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 3: Case featuring Larry Dawson.

902
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 2: To me, this is almost like movie worthy, scripted movie worthy. Now,

903
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 2: I know with your album history, you're like this songs

904
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 2: that doesn't matter. It was a Tuesday we made the

905
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 2: Holy Ghosts and then forgot about it. How are you

906
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 2: now with as far as like your archives are concerned,

907
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 2: or your just memories.

908
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 3: Like are you sentimental? Do you collect things? Do you?

909
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 2: And how do you plan on telling the story of

910
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 2: the barcas well?

911
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: I'm in the process now of finish my book, and

912
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: I must add my wife is probably gonna get me

913
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 1: about this procrastinating about it, but my plan is to

914
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: have it finished sometimes, I mean forty years out.

915
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 3: I had hoped that.

916
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: Having finished should be finished by now, but I'm a

917
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: little behind. But I have a story to tell. I

918
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: got a story to tell, I mean, and a mirror.

919
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 3: We hadn't even.

920
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: Scratched the service. There's a whole slash story. There's a

921
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: Don Corneil's story, and you know there's I got a

922
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 1: lot of stories. I mean, Slash saved us. Michael Jackson,

923
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 1: there's a Jackson five story.

924
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: What do you want us to know about the barcades

925
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: that we don't know? And man, I'm gonna have you

926
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 2: closed on the Slash story.

927
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 3: Okay, okay.

928
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: What you should know about the barcades is that, first

929
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: of all, number one, the first thing you should know, AMIRR,

930
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: I don't know what. I'm a bass player posing as

931
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: a promotion man, or a promotion man posing as a

932
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: bass player. I don't know what because I did a

933
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: lot of independent promotion work. I never worked for a company.

934
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I did that for for minute. I worked

935
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: with for Selecto hits. I'm the one that introduced three

936
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 1: six Mathia eight balling them JG.

937
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 3: Timet, I totally forgot.

938
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 2: We talk about how your son, the legendary Jazzy Fay

939
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 2: sort of revived Memphis hip hop, which as if.

940
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 1: Fay, how he did that is well, First of all,

941
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: number one, he tried.

942
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 3: To be an artist.

943
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: First, he was an artist. He was on Electra uh

944
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: in the day's uh. Doug Daniels at Electoral Bob Krastno

945
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 1: was the president. Doug Daniels over promotions and then they

946
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: decided to bring in Ruben Rodriguez, okay, his Pendulum Records,

947
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: and so Ruben fired everybody at at Electra.

948
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 3: And brought in Pen Recause. And that was kind of

949
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 3: like the black part of Electra.

950
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 2: We almost signed the pen shout out Togable Planet Jazz.

951
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: It put out one album rising to the top, and

952
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: he said, Daddy, I don't want to be no artist

953
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: no more.

954
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 3: I want to start producing. So he still was in Memphis, right,

955
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 3: and uh, I know he didn't want me to tell

956
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 3: this story.

957
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: I went by some apartment one day, right, opened the

958
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: door to his apartment, and this big puff of smoke

959
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: hit me in the face.

960
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 3: I got a contact high. There you go.

961
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: I went ballistic. So he didn't have that many dishes

962
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 1: in his in his cabinet. I went in his I

963
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: went in this in the kitchen, and every dish in

964
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: the kitchen I broke it. I just I went I

965
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: went berserk. And then they and then everybody looking at

966
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: me like you know, they thought of you know, I

967
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 1: thought him as smoking crack or something. But that was

968
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I just went off. And then so I

969
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: told him, I said, you're gonna have to make a

970
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: decision in twenty four hours of what you're gonna do

971
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: with your life.

972
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 3: So he came back and he said, Dad, I don't know.

973
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do. I don't know where

974
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 3: to go or nothing like that. I gave him a

975
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 3: little more time, and he came back to me. He

976
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 3: said he's gonna move to Atlanta.

977
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: So he didn't have nothing, I mean nothing but what

978
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: I gave him every now and then he called me

979
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: and said, Dad, can you you know it was no

980
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: cash out or nothing like that.

981
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 3: Then say can you put me some on the wire.

982
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:30,439
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

983
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: I'm thinking maybe you know, like hey, one hundred bucks

984
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: or something like that that I need five hundred bucks

985
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: short on my rent.

986
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 3: I said, you know what, you need to get a job.

987
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: So that went on for one or two times, and

988
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden he started happening and I

989
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: asked around. I asked faced in particular, and ain't no

990
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:56,439
Speaker 1: future in your front?

991
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 3: Who's the mc bre Yeah, cause he stayed with him.

992
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:01,399
Speaker 3: She read when he first got to.

993
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 1: Atlanta, facing that were on a BMI panel in Nashville.

994
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 3: And you mean scarface, no baby face, oh baby Okay.

995
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 3: So he kept saying that.

996
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 1: Somebody was asking the question and he was talking about

997
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: writer's block, face having writer's block come on, so even

998
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: facing so he said, man, I had to writers block

999
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: on this song. And uh, I founded that. This kid

1000
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, they said he called himself Jazzy Faye. He

1001
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: said he said it in the track and he said

1002
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: it in amount of hours he had to set the

1003
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: track back. It was a Tony Braxton song, but I

1004
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: don't know which one it was that he had. He

1005
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: kind of like finished it in like a couple of hours,

1006
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 1: and he and he just, you know, he just thought

1007
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: he was amazing. He went on and on and on

1008
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: and on about him. So he started, you know, he

1009
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: just he started doing this thing. I had a problem

1010
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: with it because I was in the studio. I was

1011
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 1: in patchwork one day and j D was in there,

1012
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: Sean Garrett, Jazz, all of them. You know, they were

1013
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: smoking a little few blunts and they passed around to

1014
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: me and I wouldn't partake in it. So, you know,

1015
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: I have a tendency for going off. I got up

1016
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: and I said, you know what, I don't want your

1017
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: damn dope. I said, but y'all ain't gonna be shit

1018
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: until y'all bring an old ass person like me back

1019
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: from the day they make a hit for me. And

1020
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: then I left. Okay, I left the studio, and so

1021
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: I guess Jess felt bad. So about nine years ago

1022
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: he called me and said, damn, you need to come

1023
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 1: to the studio and he wrote a song for us

1024
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 1: called grown Folks. You don't need permission to do what

1025
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: grown folks do. You don't have to ask nobody, because

1026
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: guess what has grown there?

1027
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 3: It is. Yeah.

1028
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 2: I always wanted to have this conversation with you, and

1029
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 2: I thank you anytime. Thank you brother, now, even though

1030
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 2: I'm saying goodbye. If this is the encore, give me

1031
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 2: the Slidestone story. Slat Stone was.

1032
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: We was opening the show for slash Stone at the

1033
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: Cobo Arena in Detroit.

1034
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 3: Wait year this was.

1035
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: He just said, danced to the music out. Oh Jesus

1036
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: Christ is sixty eight era. Okay good. And he had

1037
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: an endorsement with Fender. Okay, uh, Fender gave it an endorsements.

1038
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: They had all Fender, Fender everything, Fender amps, get to

1039
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,919
Speaker 1: us everything. We won our way to Detroit, we would

1040
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: have opened in that So whatever vehicle we were traveling

1041
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: broke down. So if we got to the venue, we

1042
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: weren't gonna have time to set our equipment up, because

1043
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: the promoter goes, whatever time we took the setup, you

1044
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: go deduct that from out whatever time we spoke performed.

1045
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: So SLID's dad and slide I came out said, man,

1046
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: don't y'all worry about techingyogy equipment out. Man, let's use

1047
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: some of this shit up on stage. And he let

1048
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: us use all this equipment. We didn't have to sit

1049
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: the equipment up. He saved us because otherwise we wouldn't

1050
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: have been able to do our set.

1051
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 3: And so you know, we became friends ever since.

1052
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: And I can't tell the Don Coneian story, but when

1053
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: Don Conneius moved from Chicago to La when he got

1054
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 1: his you know, because Soul Train was a local show,

1055
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: he got picked up by Tribune and then went national,

1056
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: Don called me and saim I know absolutely nobody in La.

1057
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 3: So I was in La.

1058
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: So I said, just meet me at the Record plant.

1059
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: So on his first night in La, I introduced him

1060
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: to slide Stone, Bobby Womack and Billy Preston and I

1061
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 1: and so see, so can you said, man for that,

1062
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: anytime you come to La you can do Soul Train.

1063
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: So I don't know what is official or unofficial, but

1064
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: we may hold the records.

1065
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 2: You guys are third behind the whispers. I can't tell

1066
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 2: you how I knew this, but I knew this.

1067
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know too much. No, no, no, you're good.

1068
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: We probably hold the record for doing Soul Training, cause

1069
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: eventually we do. We had to do Soul Train at

1070
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 1: least ten or fifteen times.

1071
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 3: You guys are third. Uh.

1072
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 2: The whispers are first, O Jay's or second. You guys

1073
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 2: are third. Right in terms of solid appearances, yes that is.

1074
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Dub we became friends in fact. Next week

1075
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: we leave to go on to sould Train crew Soul

1076
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 1: Train crews. Brother Alexander, thank you very much.

1077
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1078
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 2: This is the Quest Love Show, so I gotta say

1079
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 2: see yall next week. The Quest Loup Show is hosted

1080
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: by me a Mere Quest Love Thompson. The executive producers are.

1081
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: Sean g Brian Calhoun and Me. Produced by Britney Benjamin

1082
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 3: and Jake Paine.

1083
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown, edited by Alex Conroy.

1084
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: iHeart video support by Mark Canton, Logos graphics and animation

1085
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:27,439
Speaker 1: by Nick Helloe. Additional support by Lance Colbert Special thanks

1086
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: to Kathy Wrong Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe,

1087
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: break review, and share The Quest Love Show wherever you

1088
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: stream your podcast, make sure you follow us on socials

1089
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 1: that's at q LS. Check out hundreds and hundreds of

1090
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Speaker 1: QLs episodes, including the West Love Supreme Shows, and our

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Speaker 1: podcast archives. The Quest Love Show is the production of iHeartRadio.