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Speaker 1: All right, tell you Scott cha an hour two Sean

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Speaker 1: Hannity's show toll free on numbers eight hundred nine four one, Sean,

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Speaker 1: if you want to be a part of the program,

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Speaker 1: we've been telling you. The jury has made four requests.

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Speaker 1: Jury instructions given this morning, and they have been deliberating

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Speaker 1: for a little over four hours and thirty eight minutes,

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Speaker 1: and they have requested four things. Now the judges suggesting

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Speaker 1: that they work on the Conan Pecker testimony tomorrow, which,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, makes a lot of sense considering they

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Speaker 1: were there late yesterday, and if the judge wants to

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Speaker 1: stick to the four thirty timetable that he himself set up,

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Speaker 1: it would probably would be better for them to hear

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Speaker 1: the instructions and the transcripts before they restart their deliberations.

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Speaker 1: So it looks like my guess, if the judges suggesting

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Speaker 1: that they they were now learning that they're suggesting they

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Speaker 1: work on this tomorrow, that the judge will probably dismissed

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Speaker 1: the jury for the day. The four questions that are

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Speaker 1: in testimony David Pecker's testimony about the phone conversation with

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, Pecker's testimony about the decision regarding the assignment

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Speaker 1: of playboy model Karen McDougal's life right, Pecker's testimony about

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Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen Trump Tower meeting, Michael Cohen's testimony about

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Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen Trump Tower meeting. What can you glean

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Speaker 1: from this? What does this mean? I guess it's anybody's guests.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, the jury is requested to hear these instructions

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Speaker 1: after the judge denied them a copy of the instructions.

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Speaker 1: They've now been deliberating over four hours now. Trump's attorney

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Speaker 1: Todd Blanche looked at Trump gave him a smile as

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Speaker 1: the second note was handing to the judge from the jurors.

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Speaker 1: Not sure Trump's team believes the longer it takes, the

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Speaker 1: better it is for them, because it means people are

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Speaker 1: disagreeing with each other. Probably a good analysis, but you

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Speaker 1: got to really listen to everybody that we have ever

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Speaker 1: interviewed regarding the these cases. You can't read into a

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Speaker 1: lot of it anyway. Here to help us read into

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Speaker 1: it anyway, even though it goes against what I just said,

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Speaker 1: Greg Jarrett, Fox News legal analyst, best selling author David

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Speaker 1: shooncivil writes attorney who previously represented President Trump as well. Gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the program. Greg, I start with you.

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Speaker 1: What do you make, if anything, of the request from

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Speaker 1: the jury and the judge now but the judge now

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Speaker 1: has officially dismissed the jury. Court resumes at nine point

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Speaker 1: thirty tomorrow morning.

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Speaker 2: Your analysis, I think is a good one.

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Speaker 3: I mean you could have been called wait, wait, hang on,

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Speaker 3: can you repeat that. I didn't quite hear you, er,

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Speaker 3: my friend.

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Speaker 2: But you know you chose the wicked path of journalism. Look,

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Speaker 2: you know there is a temptation to read a lot

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Speaker 2: into this, but I think you're right. You know, these

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Speaker 2: jurors seem confused. I mean they're asking to see just

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Speaker 2: about everything, including jury instructions with the judge wouldn't allow

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Speaker 2: them to take in the courtroom or in the deliberation room.

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Speaker 1: Well, I thought there were two jurors that were going

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Speaker 1: to have it on a computer.

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Speaker 3: Am I wrong on that?

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Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware of.

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Speaker 4: Matt.

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Speaker 3: Let me pull up my notes as you're talking here.

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Speaker 1: I thought juror number four and during number six, or

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Speaker 1: hang on a second, I got it right here. All

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Speaker 1: the evidence from the trial has been uploaded onto the

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Speaker 1: laptop evidence. Okay, so I stand corrected to myself. Duror

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Speaker 1: four and Juror six volunteered to operate it for the group.

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Speaker 1: All the evidence from the trial, in other words, evidence

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Speaker 1: things that have been presented in as evidence but not instructions.

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Speaker 3: You're correct.

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Speaker 2: So you know, it looks like they want to see

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Speaker 2: everything from Michael Cohen to David Pecker, even a part

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Speaker 2: of the case that really is utterly irrelevant to the charges,

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Speaker 2: and that's Karen McDougall. And so one is tempted to

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Speaker 2: draw the conclusion you did, and that is that you know,

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Speaker 2: as I predicted, this is a jumbled mess that was

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Speaker 2: presented by Alvin Bragg and his team of partisan prosecutors.

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Speaker 2: It was like, you know, let's throw spaghetti at the

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Speaker 2: wall and see what sticks. And you know, I think

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Speaker 2: they have created an enormous amount of confusion. It's up

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Speaker 2: to the jurors to try to weigh true the lunacy

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Speaker 2: in search of the truth.

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Speaker 1: Let me go to something. You are the first person

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Speaker 1: to point this out to me. I'm a long time

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Speaker 1: ago on this. Once this bizarre theory came out that

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Speaker 1: the judge telling the jurors that you know that there's

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Speaker 1: no need to agree on what has occurred, and they

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Speaker 1: can disagree on what the crime was among the three choices.

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Speaker 1: In other words, they can think Donald Trump's guilty for

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Speaker 1: separate reasons. Reason A, reason be re and C. Four

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Speaker 1: of them can support reason A but he's guilty, or

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Speaker 1: could support reason B he's guilty but for a different reason,

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Speaker 1: and option number CE an entirely different reason. Now you

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Speaker 1: pointed out, and well, the first to point out to

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Speaker 1: me that the Supreme Court has been very very clear

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Speaker 1: in this that they have held that unanimity and jury

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Speaker 1: verdicts is required under the sixth and seventh Amendments.

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Speaker 3: Do you want to expand on that.

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Speaker 2: Well, the latest case was twenty twenty Ramos versus Louisiana,

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Speaker 2: and it's a case that every lawyer who tries cases knows.

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Speaker 2: And basically what Mershan has done here is he has

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Speaker 2: ripped up Trump's due process rights. He instructed the jury

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Speaker 2: they need not agree unanimously on which of the three

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Speaker 2: mysterious secondary crimes that the defendants supposedly committed. So, in

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Speaker 2: other words, they're free to pick and choose whatever they

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Speaker 2: like without consensus. How in the world can that be,

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Speaker 2: Because Unanimous jury decisions are a that rock constitutional principle

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Speaker 2: derived from the sixth and seventh Amendment, and that requirement

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Speaker 2: extends not just to the verdict itself, but to all issues,

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Speaker 2: including every necessary element of an alleged crime. It's an

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Speaker 2: indispensable feature of jury trials. It's what makes America's system

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Speaker 2: of justice the envy of the world. But in the

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Speaker 2: case against Donald Trump, jurors can agree to disagree while

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Speaker 2: still reaching the ultimate verdict. You know, this is an

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Speaker 2: Alice in Wonderland case with a mad hatter judge in

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Speaker 2: which the principles of fairness he has turned upside down.

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Speaker 1: Well, I keep saying that he's basically drops cinder blocks

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Speaker 1: on the scales of justice. To say, the prosecution from

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Speaker 1: a case that was going down the toilet, especially after

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Speaker 1: the cross examination of Michael Kohne.

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Speaker 3: David showing great to have you back.

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Speaker 1: Let me get your take on the jury requests here,

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Speaker 1: and what do you read into it of anything?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Again, I mean your first common was right that we

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Speaker 5: can't read too much into it. We don't have crystal balls.

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Speaker 5: But part of it, which Greg alluded to, is it

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Speaker 5: really shows you why we have a rule a prophylactic

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Speaker 5: rule against introducing irrelevant evidence. The fact that they're interested

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Speaker 5: is that Karen McDougall story tells you that you know,

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Speaker 5: they're considering things that really should ever have been a

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Speaker 5: part of this trial. And the risk of it is

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Speaker 5: they consider it to determine whether Whetherdent Trump is guilty

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Speaker 5: or not guilty, and that's specifically prohibited with respect to

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Speaker 5: the finding of different alleged crimes. But the most fundamental

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Speaker 5: problem that we've discussed on here is the indictment is

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Speaker 5: fatally defective as a constitutional matter for not a leting

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Speaker 5: what the target crime is. It's a matter of due

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Speaker 5: process and a bunch of other fair trial rights, and

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Speaker 5: its New York and the Federal constitution. You can't put

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Speaker 5: a defendant to trial without knowing what it is the

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Speaker 5: target crime was supposed to have been. If we're a

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Speaker 5: tax crime, that's one defense, campaign finance another defense. And

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Speaker 5: I'll give you an illustration. I mean, the elements of

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Speaker 5: these alleged crimes. The government came up with a variety

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Speaker 5: of three originally four. The elements are all technical. What

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Speaker 5: intent was required for each crime? When you defended the

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Speaker 5: case all along, did you put in evidence about where

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Speaker 5: the contribution came from. In case we're really talking about

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Speaker 5: a campaign contribution crime. I'll tell you why that's irrelevant.

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Speaker 5: I was looking at a part of the jury instruction

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Speaker 5: that instructed the jury that at the time of these acts,

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Speaker 5: the campaign contribution limit was twenty seven hundred dollars. Well,

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Speaker 5: the theory of the prosecution in this case is that

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Speaker 5: Trump made a campaign contribution through by paying this money

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Speaker 5: to his own contribution. The FEC rules are clear that

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Speaker 5: twenty seven undred dollars limit doesn't apply to a candidate's

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Speaker 5: own contribution to his own campaign, some of his personal funds.

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Speaker 5: So what was that jury instruction doing in there?

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Speaker 1: It's very well, but I think it's it even goes

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Speaker 1: deeper than that. He has a lawyer who he pays

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Speaker 1: on a personal level. It was not part of his administration.

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Speaker 1: This is post the campaign. Everybody had known about the

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Speaker 1: Stormy Daniel's issue. It was not new news. I have

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Speaker 1: the letter from twenty eighteen that Stormy said. I read

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Speaker 1: it earlier in the last hour. You know, I became

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Speaker 1: aware news outlets are alleging I had a sexual end

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Speaker 1: or romantic affair with Donald Trump any many years ago.

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Speaker 1: And I am stating with complete clarity that this is

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Speaker 1: absolutely false. This is January twenty eighteen. My involvement with

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump was limited to a few public appearances and

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Speaker 1: nothing more. And when I met Donald Trump, he was

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Speaker 1: very gracious, professional, a complete gentleman to me and everyone

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Speaker 1: in my presence. And then she also talked about this allegation.

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Speaker 1: I denied it in two thousand and six, twenty eleven,

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Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, sixteen, I mean, and now denied it in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen for crying out loud. So I'm trying to understand,

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Speaker 1: and that she never received She actually says, rumors I've

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Speaker 1: received hush money from Donald Trump are completely false. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's to me, it's pretty damning in

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Speaker 1: and of itself.

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Speaker 3: So what are we talking about here?

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump paying his lawyer to go into a legal

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Speaker 1: nda or you know where is catch and kill illegal?

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Speaker 3: When you know Hillary Clinton?

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Speaker 1: I would argue it probably was involved in many leaking

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Speaker 1: of many stories all throughout this.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well the lawyer himself said that the money was

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Speaker 5: not hush money, It was a settlement all of that. Now,

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Speaker 5: that's why, you know, as you said all along and

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Speaker 5: Gregor said there was no crime here. The problem here is,

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Speaker 5: you know, the judges waited these jury instructions. Are they

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Speaker 5: going to have special verdict sheets so we know what

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Speaker 5: crime it is the jurors agreed on was committed here.

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Speaker 5: It's a farce. It's an absolutely moronic farce.

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Speaker 1: What are we to read into the length of time

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Speaker 1: that the jury deliberates before they come back with either

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Speaker 1: a note to the judge saying.

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Speaker 3: That they.

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Speaker 1: Just hit a point where they are hung, that they

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Speaker 1: don't they can't find agreement, or is there a point,

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Speaker 1: you know, Greg is it?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 1: The judge at that point, I assume, will instruct them

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Speaker 1: to probably try and go back and solve the differences.

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Speaker 1: But if they can't come to an agreement in that

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Speaker 1: in that jury room, this case is over.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's true. The judge will normally introduce

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Speaker 2: an Allen charge otherwise known as the dynamite charge. Go

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Speaker 2: back in there and try harder. But you know, I've

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Speaker 2: seen deliberations stretch on for a couple of weeks. If

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Speaker 2: the judge believes that they are progressing in earnest it's

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Speaker 2: constructive that they might actually reach a unanimous decision, then

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Speaker 2: he continues to encourage them to keep at it. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I've also seen shorter deliberations in which the

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Speaker 2: jurors have made it abundantly clear we're deadlocked, we ain't changing,

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter how much time we spend in

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Speaker 2: the deliberation room. So you know, every case is different.

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Speaker 2: It tends to be a bit subjective on the part

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Speaker 2: of the judge. So you know, we'll see how this unfolds.

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Speaker 2: But I never thought this would be a quick decision

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Speaker 2: for the reason I stated initially. This is a massive,

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Speaker 2: massive confusion, jumbled stories, jumbled law, none of it well organized,

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Speaker 2: and it's you know, spaghetti against the wall.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask about how the judges handled this case.

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Speaker 1: In this the idea that the prosecution and closing arguments

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Speaker 1: was able to over and over and over and over

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Speaker 1: again claim that the payments were campaign violations, and the

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Speaker 1: judge allowing that claim to stand uncontradicted. Now, the defense

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Speaker 1: tried to object, and every objection was overruled by the judge,

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Speaker 1: and so the judge allowed that. Now that's the example

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Speaker 1: that I'm referring to when I talk about cinder blocks

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Speaker 1: on the scales of justice. I think we saw that

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Speaker 1: when the judge, for example, would not allow even the

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Speaker 1: testimony of Bradley Smith, who is an expert on FVC law,

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Speaker 1: why interviewed? Who would have said that there's no crime here?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, there are so many reversible yerrors committed

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Speaker 2: by this judge you need a calculate later to keep track.

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Speaker 2: I think that was a mistake by the judge. Equally

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Speaker 2: was a mistake when the judge said I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to allow you to discuss the law in closing arguments.

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Speaker 2: I mean that ranks high on the list of the

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Speaker 2: most outrageous rulings ever rendered. It's beyond incompetence. It's venal

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Speaker 2: because obviously what lawyers do is they talk about the

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Speaker 2: law and the evidence and for the defense how the

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Speaker 2: evidence doesn't meet the law. Prosecutors argue the exact opposite,

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Speaker 2: and they know in advance the jury instructions and they

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Speaker 2: weave it together with the evidence and the facts. In

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Speaker 2: the case, Judge Marshaun would have none of them, and

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Speaker 2: it's just evidence of his you know, I think it's incompetence.

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Speaker 1: Unbelievable times we're living in anyway, David shown Greg, thank

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Speaker 1: you both appreciate you both being with us eight hundred

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Speaker 1: ninety four to one. Shawn is on number if you

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Speaker 1: want to be a part of the program, if you're

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Speaker 1: just joining us. The jury has been dismissed for the day.

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Speaker 1: We are on Verdict Watch. Day one is in the books,

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Speaker 1: but the jury has made now four requests for testimony

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Speaker 1: former National Inquirer publisher David Pecker's testimony about the phone

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Speaker 1: conversation with Donald Trump, Pecker's testimony about the decision regarding

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Speaker 1: the assignment of playboy model Karen McDougall's life rights, Pecker's

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Speaker 1: testimony about the twenty sixteen Trump Tower meeting, and Michael

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Speaker 1: Cohne's testimony about the twenty sixteen Trump Tower meeting. Why

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Speaker 1: they would want anything from Michael Cohne, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but if you remember Pecker publisher of the National Inquirer

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Speaker 1: at the time, and he did get a deal with

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Speaker 1: the prosecution that they wouldn't prosecute him if he testified.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, he got a phone call from Trump. You're

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Speaker 1: at an investor meeting. Attorney for Karen McDougall was shot

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Speaker 1: a story of having had sex with Trump years earlier.

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Speaker 1: Trump denied it, and this was all part of catch

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Speaker 1: and kill, which is not illegal. And then Pecker saying

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Speaker 1: what should I do? I said, I think you should

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Speaker 1: buy the story and take it off the market. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Pecker said, and they had a friendship going back many

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Speaker 1: years prior. But anyway, Pecker said, Trump described McDougall as

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Speaker 1: a nice person and said Comb would soon call him.

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Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Months later, Pecker reached an agreement to transfer McDougall's life

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Speaker 1: rights to Comb, but the deal fell through after their

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Speaker 1: general counsel advice against going forward with the transfer. And anyway,

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Speaker 1: Pecker said to Comb, the assignment deal is off. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to forward it. It's a bad idea. I

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Speaker 1: want you to rip up the agreement, and Coin apparently

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Speaker 1: had a meltdown. Pecker and Comb both testified about it,

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Speaker 1: meeting at Trump Tower in twenty fifteen. Pecker said he

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Speaker 1: was meeting where he agreed to be the eyes and ears,

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Speaker 1: you know, looking out for any negative stories about Trump.

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Speaker 1: By the way, not illegal. Anyway, Let's bring in former

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Speaker 1: Attorney General the Great State of Arizona, Mark Bernovich is

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Speaker 1: with us, sir, how are you?

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Speaker 4: I'm very good, Sean. Thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of the jury's questions and what

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Speaker 1: I just read back to you about what took place

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Speaker 1: in that testimony.

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Speaker 4: Well, I first and foremost what you said, assuming that

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Speaker 4: all of that is true, it is not a crime.

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Speaker 4: And literally there was not one single piece of direct

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Speaker 4: evidence saying that somehow the former president wanted to falsify

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Speaker 4: business records, which technically, even though the statuteal limitations has

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Speaker 4: expired on that, that's supposedly the quomer. Looking at second

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Speaker 4: thing is I learned a long time ago not to

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Speaker 4: read too much into jury questions. I mean, there was

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Speaker 4: a lot of stuff the prosecutors threw against the wall,

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Speaker 4: and frankly, Sean, I look, I prosecute a gang cases.

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Speaker 4: I was a federal prosecutor, and great prosecutors, even good prosecutors,

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Speaker 4: recognize that you want to save and preserve your case

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Speaker 4: on appeal. But there has been so many errors in

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Speaker 4: this case from the very beginning with not only the

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Speaker 4: judge and what the prosecutors themselves argued, and even some

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Speaker 4: of the testimony they allowed him from story meet Daniels

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Speaker 4: that really there is no way, no way, even with

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Speaker 4: an entirely democratic appellate court, this case will withstand any

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Speaker 4: sort of scrutiny. And to me, as I was listening

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Speaker 4: today and even these questions, I kept thinking to myself,

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Speaker 4: this case really is more ridiculous every day. It is

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Speaker 4: the theater absurd. Think about it.

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Speaker 1: As you just said this, By the way, there's no

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Speaker 1: charge on the McDougall side of this none.

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Speaker 4: There was fake news before we even knew it, that event.

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Speaker 4: And then you had an adult film star who literally

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Speaker 4: has dedicated her adult life to doing anything for money,

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Speaker 4: you know, testify and here testimony men may have been

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Speaker 4: the worst performance of her entire career. And then you

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Speaker 4: had Robert de Niro get up and do a rant

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Speaker 4: outside of the courtroom. I literally was expecting today when

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Speaker 4: those jury questions came in for the judge to bang

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Speaker 4: the gabble and say live from New York, it's Saturday night,

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Speaker 4: because I mean, this is really it's like, it's so ridiculous. Objectively,

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Speaker 4: it frankly is unconscidable, unprecedented, and unconstitutional. And that's what

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Speaker 4: people need to take away from even those questions today.

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Speaker 1: Am I wrong in believing that the judge realized that

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Speaker 1: the prosecution didn't make their case that Michael Cone was

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Speaker 1: so gutted on cross that he went in for the

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Speaker 1: save and sent lifeline after lifeline, and we saw that

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Speaker 1: when he will, you know, severely limited any testimony as

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Speaker 1: it relates to the law in this case. Bradley Smith,

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Speaker 1: the former FEC chair who I've interviewed, said there was

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Speaker 1: no crime committed. The whole meltdown with Bob Costello, who

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Speaker 1: would have, if it was allowed, would have impeached all

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Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's test I'm sorry, Michael Cohne's testimony, and

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Speaker 1: he would have added that he's spent an hour and

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Speaker 1: a half on the phone with Alvin Bragg and his

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Speaker 1: team discussing all the evidence that existed that was go

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Speaker 1: operatory that they would then have an obligation to bring

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Speaker 1: before the grand jury, and they did not bring before

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Speaker 1: the grand jury indicting in this case, that is certainly

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Speaker 1: going to be an avenue of appeal. I think that

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Speaker 1: they will win. That's my personal point of view. And

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Speaker 1: then of course leading into jury instructions today which I

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Speaker 1: found absurd, which is that the jury don't need to

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Speaker 1: agree on what has occurred. They can disagree. They can

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Speaker 1: think of crime committed and four people can think it's A,

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Speaker 1: four can think it's B, and four can think it's C,

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Speaker 1: and the judge would still treat it as a unanimous

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Speaker 1: guilty verdict, which I think is outrageous. Now, we just

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Speaker 1: had Greg jareded on and he pointed out to the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty Ramos versus Louisiana case and the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: case that has held unanimity in jury verdicts is required

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Speaker 1: under the six and seventh Amendments. The requirement extends to

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Speaker 1: all issues, and to find someone guilty, jurors must always

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Speaker 1: agree without descent, on every necessary element of a purported crime.

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Speaker 1: That is not the instructions. This judge, who I believe

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Speaker 1: again is putting cinderblocks on the scales of justice. And

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Speaker 1: you can correct me if you disagree with me, as

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Speaker 1: has done in this case. I think sending a lifeline

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Speaker 1: and a possible you know, if there's a guilty verdict,

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Speaker 1: I would put the burden on him.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, even on who wants to be a millionaire,

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Speaker 4: you only get three lifelines, right, But I agree with

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Speaker 4: your analysis Sean, that time after time the judge kept

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Speaker 4: throwing the prosecutor's lifelines. And to me, as I said,

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Speaker 4: good prosecutors recognize and realize that you don't want to

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Speaker 4: get a conviction at any cost your jobs, you justice,

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Speaker 4: You want to make sure the conviction's upheld on appeal.

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Speaker 4: But what has happened systematically, even from the very beginning

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Speaker 4: of some of the testimony, like the testimony from Stormy Daniels,

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Speaker 4: completely irrelevant, Some of the information that Michael Cohen or

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Speaker 4: that the prosecutors using closing argument about his conviction completely irrelevant,

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Speaker 4: highly prejudicial, shouldn't have been allowed. And you can go

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Speaker 4: through the litany almost every single witness that either testified

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Speaker 4: or wasn't allowed to testify. As you noted, the former

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Speaker 4: president's expert really was putting the cinder blocks, the finger,

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Speaker 4: the fists, whatever you want to call it, on the

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Speaker 4: scale of justice. And to me, it's just really sad

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Speaker 4: as someone that's I mean, I've handled thousands, probably thousands

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Speaker 4: personally criminal cases are in the course of my career,

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Speaker 4: and I couldn't help but think of the old Stalin

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Speaker 4: line about you find me a man, and I will

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Speaker 4: find you to crime. And in the Soviet Union, what

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Speaker 4: that meant was is that the political establishment, the intelligentsia,

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Speaker 4: the deep state, whatever you want to call it, that

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Speaker 4: if you did not agree with them or cow tact

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Speaker 4: or what they wanted, they literally would enter her career

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Speaker 4: and you'd find yourself in prison. And to me, I

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Speaker 4: just keep saying to all my friends that are left

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Speaker 4: of center or the people that don't like Trump, that

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Speaker 4: this isn't about Donald Trump. I mean, at the end

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Speaker 4: when the prosecutors made their closing argument yesterday, they started

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Speaker 4: talking about if you find that he tried made this

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Speaker 4: payment to try to influence the election, he is guilty.

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Speaker 4: That's not true, that's not the legal standard. But putting

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Speaker 4: that aside by their own theory, and I've heard people

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Speaker 4: talk about this, it's like, well, then Hillary Clinton was

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Speaker 4: guilty for the Steele dossier, which you paid on legal fees.

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Speaker 4: Clearly that's true. But do people in the media realize

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Speaker 4: under that very theory, by them suppressing stories by them,

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Speaker 4: you know, whether it's the mainstream media or whether it's

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Speaker 4: social media, by suppressing the Hunter Biden's story, they literally

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Speaker 4: could be charged by a prosecutor out there somewhere because

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Speaker 4: by doing that, if they had more sales or somehow

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Speaker 4: they profited from it, and they were doing it to

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Speaker 4: influence the election. They're guilty of the crime according to

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Speaker 4: Alvin Bragg's theory. So that has a cheering effect. And

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Speaker 4: where are all the folks in the ACLU or the

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Speaker 4: liberal media saying, wait a minute, this theory one day

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Speaker 4: could come back to buy us. As Ronald Reagan used to.

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Speaker 1: Say, they're sighted to say. What did Reagan saying?

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Speaker 3: What did he say?

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Speaker 4: It's like seating an alligator to hope to eat you last, Well,

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Speaker 4: that's a great way to put it.

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Speaker 1: What did you make of the fact? And again, I

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Speaker 1: believe the judges put cinder blocks on the scales of

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Speaker 1: justice in favor of the prosecution. And you know, all

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Speaker 1: throughout closing arguments, the jurors had been told dozens of

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Speaker 1: times that, you know, any of these payments were campaign violations,

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Speaker 1: and the judge allowed all of it to stand uncontradicted.

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Speaker 1: And as much as the defense gave up even objecting

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Speaker 1: because they were overruled almost every time.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, and that obviously creates issues for the defense

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Speaker 4: because you want to see issues preserve them on appeal.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time, if you keep objecting and

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Speaker 4: you know the judge is going to favor the prosecution,

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Speaker 4: you know, it makes no sense to you because it makes

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Speaker 4: it look like you're trying to hide something or conceal something,

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Speaker 4: or you know that you're wasting with your time. I

434
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 4: honestly kept thinking when I kept hearing about these wings,

435
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 4: that's like, my goodness, where were these judges when I

436
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 4: was prosecuting gang bangers and you know, tough cases. I mean,

437
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 4: I've had judges restrict how much I could say in

438
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 4: a closing argument versus they got all carte blanche. Even

439
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 4: going back to the very beginning of this, I think

440
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 4: you and I have talked about spoken about this is

441
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 4: that I've never in my life heard of a judge

442
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 4: requiring a criminal defendant or someone accused of the crime,

443
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 4: to sit in the courtroom every single day for emotions,

444
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 4: for juries, for everything, because remember, it's the right of

445
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 4: the accused, it's the person on trials rights that we're

446
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 4: trying to preserve. We're not trying to get a conviction

447
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 4: at any cost. And frankfully, I think the defense should

448
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 4: have kept this argument simple. And you just basically ask

449
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 4: was there any direct evidence that it was done to

450
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 4: influence the election? Well? No, was there any possible explanation

451
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: for why he made these payments. Well, yes, maybe to

452
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 4: preserve embarrassment. He's made payments in the past. That in

453
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 4: and of itself shows the prosecution theory is going out

454
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 4: of the water. And then, maybe more importantly, remember that

455
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 4: there was no evidence that he ever intended to conceal

456
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 4: these payments. In fact, the prosecutors themselves said, oh, he

457
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 4: signed him in sharpie and look at his signature. So

458
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 4: if someone's trying to conceal her high payments, why would

459
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 4: they be so bold about it? And ultimately the prosecution

460
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 4: has to prove to all that's beyond a reasonable now

461
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 4: that Trump, the former president, intended to do this to

462
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 4: conceal an illegal campaign contribution. So it's just absolutely asinine.

463
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 4: And frank me, Sean, what I worry about, what I'd

464
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 4: worry about if I'm the president's team is a hungary

465
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 4: because I actually think based on the rulings, what Bragg

466
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 4: has said, the prosecutor, what the judge has done, that

467
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 4: I think they're going to be like, let's retry this

468
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 4: thing in a month, and we could be going through

469
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,959
Speaker 4: this again in September and October.

470
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: So I actually think in a weird So hang on

471
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: a second, So they're going to retry this in the

472
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: middle of an election campaign, as if this hasn't been

473
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: bad enough keeping him off the campaign trail.

474
00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 3: You think they'd do it again.

475
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 4: I think they would based on everything that's happened.

476
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: I mean, look, don't but I'm going to be honest.

477
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: I don't see an acquittal option here. I don't think

478
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: a New York jury have said from day one, I

479
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: don't think you can get a fair trial. I think

480
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: I've improven right. He did not get a fair trial.

481
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: I do regardless of what the outcome is. I'll stand

482
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: by that. And just like mar A Lago is not

483
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: worth eighteen million dollars, it's just he can't get a

484
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 1: fair trial in New York DC or Fulton County, Georgia.

485
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think based on the questions there are

486
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 4: clearly and you don't know who's steering this. In a

487
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 4: jury room, it always takes on a dynamic, but it

488
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 4: could be, you know, someone saying, hey, wait a minute,

489
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 4: all we need to show is this, and maybe they're

490
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 4: trying to convince somebody else in the jury that's the

491
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 4: Pecker testimony. But I agree with you, it is it

492
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 4: is unlikely that there will be an acquittal. So the

493
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 4: next best option theoretically for the president is a hung jury.

494
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 4: But I actually think if there's a hung jury, based

495
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 4: on what Bragg has said and done, based on how

496
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 4: this judges conducted this trial, that you will see them

497
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 4: say all right, let's reload it, and let's do it

498
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 4: in September. And as a prosecutor, I've had to retry

499
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: a case a couple of times.

500
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: You know what about long standing Justice Department policy and.

501
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 4: You know what works or doesn't work after So it'll

502
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 4: actually be more disadvantaged at this advantageous to the president

503
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 4: from a trial perspective, but more importantly, as you just

504
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 4: alluded to, we could be in September and October retrying

505
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 4: this literally in the middle of the campaign season. And

506
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 4: once again, it just breaks my heart because America, historically

507
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 4: we have resolved our political differences by exercising our First

508
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 4: Amendment speech rights and the right to vote the ballot box,

509
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 4: so to speak. But unfortunately, you have liberal prosecutors who

510
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 4: want to settle political difference in a jury box, and

511
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 4: that is they have weaponized the criminal justice and that

512
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 4: should concern everyone, whether you're an independent, liberal, conservative, libertarian,

513
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 4: whether you're a Green Party wherever you follow the political spectrum,

514
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 4: this is a dangerous precedent and just because you don't

515
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 4: may not like the president as cannot justify the means.

516
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: Oh, you're echoing the comments that I read earlier from

517
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: Alan Derschwitz. We appreciate you being with us. Mark Bernovich,

518
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: former age of Arizona. Great to have you, my friend.

519
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: Thank your Does they roll along all right? The jury

520
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: has well, they're done for the day, and they are

521
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: you know, they have these four requests and so we're

522
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: gonna wage, wait, watch and see, uh what what that

523
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: ultimately means. But they want the read back on these

524
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: specific questions that they're asking for, and you know, we're

525
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: gonna you know, wait and see. They're going to do

526
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: that tomorrow. I think it's going to get pretty interesting.

527
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,719
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, asking for Pecker's testimony,

528
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: asking for his testimony on regarding phone conversations with Trump,

529
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,920
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530
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,000
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531
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,600
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