WEBVTT - Ricky Gervais 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:10.200 I I'm Rick Devised. You probably know me from the 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:14.240 UK version of the Office, or the Office as we 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:25.040 call it in the UK. Hello, and welcome back to 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:29.480 the Office deep Dive. I am your host Brian Baumgartner. 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.360 Today you will get to listen to my conversation with 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:38.800 the one and only one of my comedy heroes, Ricky Gervais. 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.839 Ricky was the co creator of the British version of 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:46.239 the Office along with Stephen Merchant, who we spoke to 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.480 last week, and Ricky, in addition to creating the show, 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:55.360 also played David Brent, the British counterpart and the inspiration 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:01.360 for Michael Scott, who was somehow possibly even more cringe 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.000 e than Michael was. I didn't think it was possible either, 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:09.920 but only Ricky himself could pull that off. Now, obviously, 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.280 Ricky is a very, very busy man, and when I 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.880 interviewed him, he was doing a ton of press for 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:22.679 another show he created called Afterlife, which I am obsessed 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.559 with that show. I absolutely love it. Everyone. You should 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:30.039 go and watch it if you haven't um. But Ricky 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:34.040 was doing so many TV appearances at the time that 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.080 when I spoke to him, he thought that this was 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:41.440 another video interview, which it was not. So here I am, 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.560 I'm lounging in I'm in my sweatpants, and Ricky is 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:50.400 looking sharp, he's looking camera ready, he's looking Gervais sexy, 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.760 is how I like to call it. Um, So just 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.880 keep that image in your head as you listen. Um. Anyway, 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.640 I am totally psyched that I got a chance to 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.120 talk to him, and I so appreciate him making the 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:08.720 time for us. So sit back, relax and enjoy the 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:20.040 incomparable Ricky Gervais. Bubble and Squeak. I love it. Bubble 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:26.480 and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cookie every month, left 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:39.680 over from the night before. Um, do you know what 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.640 we're doing here? Isn't a podcast about the history of 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.919 the Yeah? So, like the ten second version is basically 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:53.639 the Office American version since two thousand seventeen, it's the 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.760 number one streaming show in the world. It has over 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:02.960 a hundred and thirty five billion minutes that have been 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:08.440 stre stream in essentially two years. And so what we're 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.000 doing is going back and trying to figure out why 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.640 this has happened. Um. Yeah, Well, I mean it's a 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.840 testament to all the hard work, hard work that went 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.680 into it, and the rioting and the acting, the fact 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:28.399 that it's about everyday people and about everything exactly. All right, 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.320 I'm just going to start at the beginning and I'll 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.000 ask you questions. So what were the what were the 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.240 influences that had you and you know, Stephen talked to 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.480 me a little bit about you know, how you guys 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.560 got to know each other and you hired him as 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.880 as your assistant the radio station. Well, what were some 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.560 of the influences that you guys had. Well, it goes 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.720 back before that, It goes back before that. I had 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.119 David Frient as a character. Um, you know a few 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.560 years before that. In fact, I worked in an office 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:02.080 for like ten years, and obviously that's the biggest influence 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.040 real life, being part of it of a working office, 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.960 and you know, you start noticing that the fact that 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.520 you're thrown together with random people and you have to 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.560 get along. So you know, that was one theme. Um. 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.240 Coupled with that. Throughout the nineties, I watched a lot 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:22.160 of those docu soaps that were happening here where ordinary 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.880 people got their fifteen minutes of fame. Um. There was 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:30.240 one called Airline and Airport, and you know, all that, 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.520 you know, the hotel, and sort of they'd make celebrities 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.839 out of these normal people because they were just ordinary people. 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.240 But they were funny and at work and and of 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.760 course now fames a different beasts. Now they'd get an 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:42.760 agent and they try and get their own game show 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.279 and make the most of it, and you know, but 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.120 then it was sort of it was they were quite quaint. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:53.880 But I did notice that people started to be obsessed 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.400 with fame in the nineties, and of course that's just 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.719 got worse and worse, worse, and and it sort of 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.280 eats itself. So those are the those are the sort 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.480 of big things, an ordinary person getting his one shot 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:09.960 of fame, wanting to be famous. You know, if you 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.679 take away that it was a fake documentary, it doesn't 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.599 make much sense because you say, well, why is David 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.880 Brent acting like that? Oh, he wants to be famous, 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:19.960 he wants to be discovered, he wants to be loved, 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.080 he needs to hug you know. So so it was 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.560 a bit it was a we weren't spoofing the genre, 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.640 but the fact that it was meant to be a documentary. 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.599 You know, it's fifty of the show before you start 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.880 writing the sitcom and um, so how much how much 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:41.720 of the comedy comes from it being a documentary. Well, 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.960 you've got to believe this is a real person who 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.560 wants to be famous. So you've got to really believe that. 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:53.599 Um your eavesdropping almost you're you're looking on someone's life. 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:58.000 Because if you start thinking about you know it's it's written, 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.279 anything can happen. So you have to try and make 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:05.159 the ordinary extraordinary. And once you realize that David Brent 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.960 just wants to be discovered and become famous and needs 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:12.200 to hug it all seems to make sense really, and 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.080 from a personal point of view, I wanted it to 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:20.359 be a more about body language, not just acting and 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.359 saying the lines. I wanted it to be you know, 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:28.000 people notice things like I hated it in the drama 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.640 or comedy where someone would hang up the phone and 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.400 then talk to themselves, you know, like go mm hm, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.200 he doesn't usually call on a Tuesday. They had to 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.360 find a way of showing someone was worried or lying, 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.960 and you know you do that by the guy sort 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:43.920 of not looking at you and then flicking his eyes 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:48.640 at the camera, or you know, you had to somehow 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.599 act like you would if you were being filmed and 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.880 being caught out, and so there was there was lots 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.839 of reminders that this was a fake documentary because otherwise 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.919 it just wasn't that special or interesting. It's that there'd 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.960 be no reason to be making, you know, a sitcom 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.520 where these people were acting like that, unless it was 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.840 because one of them sort of wanting to be discovered 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.040 and famous. So it really was about you know, TV 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.520 in itself. It was about people, the beginning of this 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:25.280 new narcisism, this beginning of people doing anything, you know, 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.120 living their life like an open wound, just doing anything, 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.040 and and that was the beginning of bad behavior being rewarded. 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.080 You know, as soon as we people thought, well I 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.080 made it. I made an absolute proud of myself on television. 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.400 But they've invited me on a new program to talk 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.080 about it. You know, it's okay. And then people start, 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.360 you know with people that would break the law and 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.480 then write a book, you know. So that was the 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.640 ninth is. I saw that a lot. But apart from that, 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.640 it was it was still about people. It was still 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:01.120 about people being randomly thrown together and getting along, you know, 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.640 and and conflict. But that the fact that it was 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.800 a fag documentary, and one person in particular wanted to 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.040 come out of this famous because he was looking for something. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.520 He was searching for something, you know. That was a 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.840 very very big part of it. Yeah, it's interesting you 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.360 talk about behavior, right, and that so much of the 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.160 comedy comes from that. Greg Daniels shared with me that 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.360 he would send his writers down to the set to 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:34.520 just observe the actors because you can't write people's behavior, 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.800 you can't write their body posture, you can't write that stuff. 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.200 And so to really observe, for the writers on the 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.960 American Office, to actually observe the actors and the characters 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.640 in their setting, because so much of the humor came 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.760 from that. Yeah, and that's because obviously, in realize, so 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.920 much communication is non verbal. You know, just someone being, 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.240 as I said, someone lying, they don't look at you, 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.520 They touched their face. They when they're nervous, they touched 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.559 their own head. You know. Brent kept fiddling with his tie. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.319 He wasn't quite comfortable being in charge. The way he 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.920 convulsed and giggled to show that he wanted to be 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:17.440 one of the gangs. And you know, you're you're right 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:22.520 that if we hadn't shot a little pilot showing the character. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:24.520 It was like a couple of years before we did 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.880 the actual thing. I went back to the office I 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.440 used to work in, and I had like friends who 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.240 still worked there, but I we used as extras, so 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.160 it looked very hyper real. But they also like to 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.480 see what I meant if I have said, oh, this 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.160 is a character. He's quite boring, really and quite desperate 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.680 to be loved. He doesn't say anything funny, he screws 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.040 up jokes in and when he makes a joke, no 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.760 one laughs. And then he touched his tie and looked 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.360 at the camera. They think, what is this? You know, 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.600 it just doesn't jump off the page. It was it 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.520 was a performance piece. Initially it was it was about 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:08.319 behavior and about a man who was doing stuff to 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:12.040 be loved and famous, and deep down he wanted to 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:18.200 be popular and he thought being famous would that would 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.280 be a short cut to it. And you know, he 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.760 he threw everything. You know, he wanted to be a 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.880 philosopher and a teacher. He wanted to be cool, he 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.000 wanted to be sexy, he wanted to be funny, he 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.079 wanted to be all those things that he wasn't quite 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.360 And that is comedy. It's most basic, particularly in sitcom. 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.280 A sitcom is about an average guy or gal and 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:44.160 an average person who's trying to do something they're not 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.280 equipped to do. And that's what we're laughing at the 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:52.720 blind Spot. So I just made David brent so about 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.440 the blind Spot. But it was so it was so 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.080 obvious and cringe e what we were trying to say 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.479 with this man. He was delusional, And that in itself 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:05.600 was about people who wanted to be famous. Because in 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:07.400 the nineties there were people, as I said, there were 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:09.880 these people that in you know, quaint docu soaps, just 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.560 getting on with their life and being discovered and having 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.480 their fifteen minutes and that was it. But then all 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:17.760 these talent shows started and how many times have you 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.240 seen people on the talent show crying, going, please, I 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.960 just want this, vote for me, I just want this. 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:25.680 You want to go, well, what's that got to do 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.440 with me? Why you what? What's that got to do 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.360 with us? What? What a we care? Whether you want 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.600 to be famous just because you want it, Well, what 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.360 are you going to do for it? What? What have you? Whatever? 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.880 Have you put in? You know? And then It wasn't 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:44.280 even talent shows. Then it was just people and being 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:48.199 famous for being famous and doing anything to be famous, 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:53.440 you know, or being a housewife, I said, being a housewife, right, 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.320 like suddenly being a housewife Beverly Hills or whatever, like yeah, 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:01.240 it's yeah exactly, but but just just people, you know. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.480 And then it got to be that the producers are 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.640 in on it. People would say, let me go in, 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.560 big Brother, and I promise our cause trouble, start a fight, 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.600 to take my clothes off, and the producers said, okay, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.720 you're in. It was these It was honestly, it was 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.200 these contrived things people. You know, you watch shows like 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.280 The Apprentice, and these people they say anything to get 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.080 on with the blessing of the producer that wants to 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.520 see conflict, you know, are going there, I'll put the 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.920 cat among the pigeons. I'm a man who will steamroller 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.400 anyone who gets in my way. I say what I think, 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.559 I ruck all feathers, and the producers are going, well, great, 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.719 let's do it. Yeah, let's let's and and suddenly there 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:46.880 was there was this culture of misbehavior that was being rewarded. 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.360 But I think that it was just the start of it. 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.240 When I came with David Brent, it was just you know, 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:59.960 and as I say, he was mainly before television, before docusents, 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.720 he was mainly just a Frankenstein of those guys you 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.440 meet growing up. You know, your elders who should know better, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.800 your teachers who sometimes embarrass themselves, your first boss who 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.960 was an idiot, and it's it's someone behaving when they 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.960 should know better. And that's why it was important that 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.959 he was the boss, really because if he weren't the boss, 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.520 he could be an idiot. And sometimes sitcoms made the difference, 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.800 you know, the mistake of they they got that right 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.760 and then they went on holiday, and on holiday it 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:39.400 doesn't matter to much because people can behave badly on holiday. 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.840 So you need that restriction, you need that authority that 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.400 he's undermining. You know, it has to be someone who 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.760 shouldn't be behaving like this because they should be a 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.120 role model and they should know better. So all those 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.440 things were put in the mix. And the big theme 0:13:55.880 --> 0:14:00.120 of it as well was uh, men as boys and 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:05.200 women has grown ups because there was also a PC 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.880 culture that I saw come in where people were taught 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.800 what to say and do, but they didn't really mean it. 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.920 So guys like him, they knew that they couldn't be 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:21.080 sexist upstairs because they're you know, they're get in trouble 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.680 with hr. And they talked a good talk and they 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:28.480 talked about sexism, misogyny and racism, but deep down they 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.040 hadn't changed and they could get away with that in 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.720 the warehouse. So Brent was caught between two worlds because 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.200 he wanted to be loved by everyone. He wanted to 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.040 be a lad downstairs with a warehouse, but then he 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.440 had to behave properly in front of his boss. So 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.880 it was a man who was caught. He was caught 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.800 between two worlds. He wanted to say terrible things, but 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.640 the camera was rolling. He wanted to be one of 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.320 the guys, but his boss was watching. So this was 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.680 a man who wasn't comfortable with himself because he wasn't 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.560 being honest with himself. He it wasn't being honest because 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.000 he didn't He just wanted a hand out of business 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.440 cards that said, great bloke, just laugh at my jokes. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:34.360 But life isn't that easy. Do you remember the first 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:39.560 time you met Ben Silverman, Yes I do. I was 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.040 walking down the street in London. I think I was 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:48.520 going to see my agent, and the phone rang um 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.960 and he said, Hi, it's Ben Silverman. You don't know me. 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:56.360 I wanna I want to remake the Office for America. 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.120 And I went, okay, all right, he said, can we 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.360 beat up? He said, I mean town. I went right. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.200 He said, where are you? I'll come to you. I've 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.840 jumped the cab. I went okay, and I looked up 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:10.040 and I said, right and right outside Starbucks in ward 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.240 Or Street and he went, wait there, I'll be there 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.920 in fifty minutes, and he jumped in a cab. He 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.920 got I've never met anyone like him. He came and 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.080 found me because obviously knew what he looked like because 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.920 he'd watched the Office. And he talked to me and 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.640 I said, well, listen, let me introduce you to my 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.160 agent to get the ball rolling. And I took him 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.840 in to see Duncan Hayes as my UK still is 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:38.480 my UK agent, and that's and that was the beginning 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.400 of it. And then I can't remember all the details 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.320 or all the phone calls, but I think the next 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:52.600 big step was we sort of auditions show runners and 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:57.040 we saw some amazing ones from my favorite programs of 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.080 all time. We we chose Greg, and I think we 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.280 chose Greg not just because of his body as work, 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:04.879 which was as good as anyone's, and he was a 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:09.720 nice chat but I think I think it was because 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.159 he was the only one that brought up that he thought. 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.840 It was a love story that was very important to me, 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:20.440 the love story. So you know, I didn't want to 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.960 I never thought of it was, you know, just the sitcom. 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.560 You know, you traditionally sitcoms were, as I say, an 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.200 ordinary guy getting into Caper's and then you know, back 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:33.160 at Square one, and there wasn't there wasn't really romance. 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:37.480 But you know, we stole that from America because you know, 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:39.760 and movies, because you know, there was always a love 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.840 interest in movies and a lot of Americans shows had 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.800 more romance and love interests than than ours. It was 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.040 usually about a grumpy, middle aged man, so we we 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.040 like that. And then I can't remember what all of 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.080 this this was in, but I think it was the 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.800 Golden Globes where we won to the Office and I 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:05.240 won Best Comedy Actor. I think that was the same 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:11.520 week that we went to Ben Silverman's office and I 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.760 don't know it before and after, but then Ben and 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.720 Greg came to London. At that I think that was 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:20.000 nearer the time when we were very getting very close 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:25.440 to actually start in production, and we worked out the translation, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.800 what was slow in America, you know, what was the 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.399 equivalent of this, and what was the equivalent of that? 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.120 And do we have this and what we almost did 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:43.000 like a blueprint to you know, just americanizing stuff, and 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.400 then we started. Then we started auditions and and that 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.920 was it. I do remember at one point, I think 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:54.480 before or auditions, or when we were thinking of looking 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:58.000 for you know, that David Ben and I think Ben 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.119 Silverman called me and said, why don't you playing? And 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.520 I said, well, what were the point of that? I 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.119 did my bed. Now I want to rest. Now I 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.960 want some I want some other schmuck to do a 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:15.960 two episodes. But mainly my real apart from the fact 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.200 that I was lazy and I was terrified of being 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.320 working hard for seven years, I said, no, this should 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:25.199 be this should be made by Americans for Americans. And 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.720 I was flattered that they even let us being involved 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.040 as we were. But you know, it really took off 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.119 when they started making their own show. Is. The first 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:40.880 episode was basically a remake, but then it just got 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.600 further and further away, and you know, by the end, 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:45.800 it yeah, it was. It was its own show. And 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.479 I remember that people were scared because The Office was 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:53.520 such a media darling, you know, to a few Americans, 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:58.560 even its peak. I remember the Office in America, the 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.000 our version. I remember it was the biggest show on 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.120 BBC America and it had something like one point one million, 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.719 and Ben Dield was saying, listen, there's a lot of 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.040 people that haven't seen this that won't be prejudiced. But 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:20.359 of course, I remember he was worried about the press 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.480 saying this is a you know this, we love the original, 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.880 um and he came up with a really good thing. 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.200 When they were saying, why would you do a remake 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.280 of this that the original was perfect, he said, well, 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.800 why I wouldn't. I wouldn't make the film of a 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:39.520 shitty novel. I'd make a film of the best novel 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.920 I could find. And I thought that was such a 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.199 clever counter. But of course we want to remake of 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:48.439 something that's really good. At what we do a remake 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:53.800 of something that was terrible, And then soon, you know, 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:58.280 people forgot that there was original. Some people don't even 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:03.000 know there's an original to most Americans that they have 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.359 no idea that this is a remake, and they don't care. 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.560 And you know, and I imagine most people who love 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.600 the American Office they prefer it to the British version. 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:17.159 So and which is a great position to be in 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:22.080 for me. I remember once it was after syndication and someone, 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:26.119 someone on Twitter sent me a tweet that said, the 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.639 American version of the Office is so much bigger and 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.560 better than yours. How does that make you feel? And 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:44.200 I sent back, fucking rich exactly. I don't think you 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.879 had any problem with the success of the American version 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.639 of the Office. No, I was, you know. But I 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:55.399 remember also early days, it was an okay start. It 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.240 was a new sitcom. I mean it was on network TV, 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.639 so it was already audacious, was pretty out there, and 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.359 the ratings were not good. It was a bit spiky 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:09.119 and different, and and I think it struggled, and I 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.480 think we got they deferred people's wages too, so it 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.000 could keep going, and and you know, people really pulled 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.320 together to try and get this going. And then I 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.000 think that there was two big breaks as I remember 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:26.199 one was they discovered that it was watched by the 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:30.159 right demographic for advertising, even though it was only getting 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:35.200 a few millions. I think it was the highest percentage 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:39.280 of people earning over a hundred thousand dollars. I think 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.040 it was second to Win and Grace, And so advertisers 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.280 loved it, and so the channel loved it. So there 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.880 was all that behind the theme things going on. And 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:53.119 then Steve Kral became a huge film star, so it 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:55.680 took off. It just and then it grew and grew 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:57.879 and grew and got bigger and bigger, and it's still 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:02.159 getting bigger and bigger. It's remarkable. Remarkable. Yeah. One of 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:04.520 my favorite Emmy moments of all time was the bit 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:06.960 you did with Steve Correll. What do you think about 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:10.639 the fact that he never won an Emmy? Didn't he 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.480 never How many did he get nothinated for? He must 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.359 he got nominated every year. He probably got six or seven, 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:23.600 but he never won. Wow. Wow, oh in your face, 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:30.960 Steve Carrell? Um? Wow? So was I up against him? Then? 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:33.359 When I won I won an Emmy for my before 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:37.840 it's an extra and I wasn't there. And that's the 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:43.320 one where John Stewart gave it to Steve. Yes, oh 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:45.280 so one of them was my fault that you didn't win. 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:49.160 Now I feel bad. Yeah, that was funny that bit. 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.359 I just I bumped into him on the red carpet 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:57.000 and said, I've got an idea if you could that. Um, 0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:58.680 I'm going to come and get my only back and 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:01.840 you've stolen it. And he just went, do whatever you want. 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:06.720 And he just played it so so deadpalent and so 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:10.200 great and it was just lovely when he bent down 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:14.280 and gave it back to me. He's great, I think. 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:18.879 I you know, I have said this many times an interview, 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.080 never to his face. I always wind him up in public, 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:25.560 obviously that's my job. But he is such a brilliant, 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:34.840 hard working, conscientious, it's just a lovely man who it's great. 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:37.600 He's so versat up And then we got to see 0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:42.240 him that he was a dramatic actor after all this 0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:47.919 was over. I mean, we really we really lucked out 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:54.440 when we got Steve Corral for being our sitcom, didn't we. Yeah, 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:58.959 he's one of the best. Yeah, because you know he 0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:03.600 can be you know, he can be snide and rude 0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:09.680 and unaware and somehow you still have that feeling where 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:13.520 you you just want to love him. I know, I 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:19.639