1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Wall Street Week. 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 2: The global push into infrastructure, breaking the IPO logjam in text. 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 2: The financial stories that sheep are work cutting inflation without 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 2: losing jobs. Do we need rate cuts and if so, 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: how many? Investing in a time of geopolitical turmoil. 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Through the eyes of the most influential voices. 7 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 2: Ten Rogueff Economists of Harvard, former FDIC had Shila Bert 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: ge CEO, Larry Kulp, San Francisco FED President Mary Daily Bloomberg. 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: Wall Street Week with David Weston from Bloomberg Radio. 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: A big win for labor in Great Britain, the Biden 11 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 2: presidency hangs in the balance, and France heads into the 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: second round of elections. This is Bloomberg Wall Street Week. 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: I'm David Weston. This week, Ken Jacobs of Lazard explains 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: why the Supreme Court decisions in this term may not 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: be as good for business as many people think. 16 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 3: We shouldn't suddenly cheer this decision as pro business and. 17 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: As the United States celebrates its Independence Day. The former 18 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: head of Young and Rubacam tells the storyory of how 19 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: he went from a boy in a labor camp in 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: communists Romania to rise to the top of the advertising business. 21 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 4: These idealistic views of America meant so much to me. 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 2: We start with US jobs numbers that came out on 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: Friday and what they tell us about the US economy 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: with Stephanie Flanders, Bloomberg Senior Executive editor for Economics and Governments. So, Stephanie, 25 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: thanks so much for being back with us. So it's 26 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 2: an interesting set of jobs numbers. On one hand, they 27 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: increased the non farm payrolls by a goodly amount, but 28 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: they also took revisions taking them back down. So on 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: net net, what did we learn? 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 5: You know, I think we learned quite a lot from this, 31 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 5: and I think one of it was that actually, something 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 5: that our chief economist, Anna Wong has been talking about 33 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 5: for a while is that there had been the rate 34 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 5: of job growth that we've seen actually for the last 35 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 5: year or so was being exaggerated by the way that 36 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 5: there of label cysics is including those business failures and 37 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 5: successes in their numbers. So she had estimated already that 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 5: relative instead of the sort of two hundred thousand jobs 39 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 5: additions every month that we've seen on average for some 40 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 5: time now, it was actually going to be revised to 41 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 5: half of that figure, more like one hundred thousand when 42 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 5: you took business failures into account. And we haven't fully 43 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 5: seen that revision yet, but I think that was one 44 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 5: thing that certainly that bond market investors were focusing on 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 5: in these numbers, that you had some big downward revisions 46 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 5: in the past numbers. So even though the headline was 47 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 5: pretty close to what we had forecast, but there was 48 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 5: a bit lower than expected by others. Even though that 49 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 5: headline looked healthy, I think we are starting to see 50 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 5: that deterioration under the surface, which was emphasized also by 51 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 5: the increase in the unemployment rate, which was again was 52 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 5: higher than expected. So I think all of that points 53 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 5: to a slightly more a more significant weakening, or a 54 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 5: more advance weakening in the labor market than perhaps many 55 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 5: had thought. 56 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that having is terribly important, as I understand it. 57 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: Economists tell us that basically to sort of replicate the 58 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: number of jobs you have now, it's around one hundred 59 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: thousand a month. So if it's two hundred thousand, that's 60 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: really a growing job market. If it's one hundred thousand, 61 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: that's a lot closer to just break even flat. 62 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, and obviously you know we have seen we haven't 63 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 5: seen the recession that the BlueBag economics had expected, and 64 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 5: that's it's definitely been a stronger economy than we expected, 65 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 5: you know, even six or six to nine months ago, 66 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 5: but the sort beneath the surface weakening, and again pointing 67 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 5: to that rising unemployment rate, I think all points to, 68 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 5: you know, points as still towards rate cuts in September 69 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 5: and then and maybe another one before the end of 70 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 5: the year. 71 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 6: I guess, you know, that's that's it. We were in 72 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 6: normal times. 73 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 5: But of course, you know, there's a few other things 74 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 5: going on in the next six months, and those are 75 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 5: things that the bond market and indeed the Federal Reserve 76 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 5: are going to have to some attention to as well. 77 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: Well. Let's talk about exactly that, Stephanie, because as you 78 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: point out, there's sort of a push and pull going 79 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: on here. On the one hand, there seems to be 80 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: a slowing job market and as you say, the unemployment 81 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: rate is ticking up slowly, which might indicate we really 82 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: have to back off on the fiscal policy. On the 83 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: other hand, we do have this little election coming up 84 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: in November, and there have been some substantial developments this week, 85 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 2: and that particularly about who the nominee is going to 86 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: be for the Democrats. As President Biden is really going 87 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: through a tough time. We've seen some reaction from the 88 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 2: bond markets to that phenomenon. 89 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, a lot of talk about the Trump trade, and 90 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 5: I think we saw that particularly in the immediate aftermath 91 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 5: of that disastrous debate performance a week ago by President Biden. 92 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 5: You know, we had perhaps been in a situation where 93 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 5: many in the markets and certainly in the betting markets, 94 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 5: thought it was more likely than not that President Trump 95 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 5: would come into office in the November elections. But we 96 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 5: sort of went from more likely than not to an 97 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 5: apparently unstoppable over the last week or so. As a 98 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 5: course of not us that just deteriorating sort of prospects 99 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 5: potentially for President Biden on the back of that performance. 100 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 5: But a lot of people, certainly a lot of people 101 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 5: sitting in congressional seats and senators thinking on the Democrats side, wow, 102 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 5: those not only is we not going to have cottails 103 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 5: coming from an incoming, you know, a re elected president, 104 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 5: we could seriously be in trouble and we could be 105 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 5: looking at a clear, clean suite for the Republicans come November. 106 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 5: If any of that it does come to pass, then 107 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 5: I think people are looking down the track and saying, Okay, 108 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 5: that's going to mean more unsustainable fiscal policies and are 109 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 5: probably maybe good for the economy sort of short term 110 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 5: in terms of growth, but it certainly points to higher 111 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 5: interest rates for longer on the long end on the 112 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 5: bond deal. 113 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 2: Then, yeah, this is a terribly important point. I'm curious 114 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 2: about your perspective, not only from your time in London. 115 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 2: Also you spent some time in Washington in the administration. 116 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: Actually you've been watching this for some time. Do the 117 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: markets basically favor a divided government in the United States, 118 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: that is to say, they don't like it when it's 119 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: all Democrats or are Republicans in both houses of Congress 120 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 2: plus the presidency, because a lot more can be done. 121 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 5: I think there is a nervousness around that. And thank 122 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 5: you for reminding me, David that actually the last time 123 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 5: when I was in the Treasury, unfortunately I only had 124 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 5: a junior job, but when I was in the US 125 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 5: Treasury was the last time we had a budget surplus 126 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 5: in the US on the federal side. It's been a 127 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 5: very long time since we had one of those. But 128 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 5: I think It's also there's a Trump specific factor here, right, 129 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 5: but he's he's talking about across the board tariffs that 130 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 5: would add to inflation at a time when yes, you 131 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 5: want to also have increased defense spending. And we're already 132 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 5: in an economy, you know, this is an economy that 133 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 5: is probably you know, potentially at the peak of the cycles, 134 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 5: certainly at full close to full capacity. That's been running 135 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 5: at six or seven percent of GDP budget deficits year 136 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 5: after year. And if that's only going to go up 137 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 5: or at least stay at that level as the cost 138 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 5: of servicing that debt goes up, that is looking very unsustainable. 139 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 5: I guess the key question is, even if you have 140 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 5: a strong equity market in that context, you're certainly going 141 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 5: to have a sort of longer term sell off on 142 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 5: bond from the bond market, and you're going to have 143 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 5: trouble for the Fed, potentially pressure on the dollar for 144 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 5: way down the road. 145 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: Okay, it's in the books now, Stephanie, I think it's 146 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 2: fair to say a landslide win for secure Starmer and 147 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: the Labor Party. What do we think that may mean 148 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: for economic policy going forward? 149 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 5: If anything, Well, we do have a pretty we have 150 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 5: a first female Chancellor of Exchequer almost certainly one called 151 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 5: Rachel Reeves, who we're going to get to know. She 152 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 5: is actually a former Bank of England economist and is 153 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 5: considered to be very by the book, quite orthodox in 154 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 5: her approach to economics. So at some level this is 155 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 5: not a This is certainly not a corbyn Er Jeremy 156 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 5: Corbyn style incoming Labor government, very more on the tradition 157 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 5: of Blair. And that's what kir Starmer has done with 158 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 5: the Labor Party. Has managed to sort of. 159 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 6: Drag it back from that fringe period under. 160 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 5: Jeremy Corbyn and make it an electable alternative to the Conservatives. 161 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 5: And boy, the voters really wanted alternative to the Conservatives. 162 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 5: They gave them an absolute kicking in this election, didn't 163 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 5: really plant a lot more votes for Labor, but had 164 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 5: a half of the votes for the Conservatives. 165 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 6: The focus is going to be on growth. 166 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 5: I think the big difference, if there is one, will 167 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 5: be potentially the approach to Europe and the rigorous focus 168 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,119 Speaker 5: on house building and investments. You know, that is something 169 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 5: where the previous government had not wanted to. You know, 170 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 5: you get a lot of arguments from people Oh, I 171 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 5: don't want to have that wind. 172 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 6: Farm on my regret, you know, near me. I don't 173 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 6: like it. 174 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 5: I don't want to have this new housing estate near me. 175 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,479 Speaker 5: They have promised that they're going to push through that opposition, 176 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 5: but I guess we'll wait and see. 177 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: Oh, when you talk about the new chance with the checker, 178 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: it's her job now to come up with the money 179 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: for that investment. Where's that money going to come from? 180 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 5: Well, so her answer to that is faster growth. But 181 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 5: of course, you know, you have a chicken and egg problem. 182 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 5: So if the UK had just grown at its long 183 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 5: term average rate after the Globi Falantocrassis after two thousand 184 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 5: and eight, the economy would be forty percent larger now 185 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 5: and there will be a lot more tax revenues to 186 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 5: fund a lot more of the demand for public services 187 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 5: that is undeniably there. 188 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 6: In the UK. Pent up demand we don't have. 189 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 5: We've had much weaker growth than that, and it's hard 190 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 5: to sort of immediately turn on the switch. But I 191 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 5: think she will be looking for ways to get credit 192 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 5: from the official, the independent fiscal watchdog for things that 193 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 5: she's doing now affecting growth over the longer term. So 194 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 5: if she does things that really convince that watchdog. Oh, 195 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 5: actually growth could be a little bit higher over the 196 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 5: next few years, while potential growth is going to go up. Well, 197 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 5: that will also actually give her a bit more room 198 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 5: on the spending side because it'll look more sustainable over time. 199 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: So when you talk about the actual growth versus the 200 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: potential growth for the British economy, some of us might 201 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: think a question about Brexit and what effect it had 202 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: on that differential. At the same time, I don't recall 203 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: a lot of discussion Brexit at all in this election. 204 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like Circuit Sharma is going to be 205 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: saying let's get back into the European Union. So how 206 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: are they going to bring back the actual growth without 207 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: addressing the Brexit issues? 208 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 5: You know, I think it's been it's been a controversial 209 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 5: question and there's been a lot of pressure. When you 210 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 5: look at polls, there is a large majority now, especially 211 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 5: of many labor voters, wanting to potentially even go back 212 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 5: in the EU, which I don't think is a practical suggestion, 213 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 5: but certainly to have a closer relationship maybe in the 214 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 5: Single Market, joined the Customs Union. He has ruled all 215 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 5: of that out and has not wanted to talk about it. 216 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 5: When we saw the results last night, we saw a 217 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 5: little bit of why because the second place party in 218 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 5: a lot of the seats that label was winning back 219 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 5: were not the Conservatives but the Reform Party, which, as 220 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 5: you'll remember, David, is a kind of an anti europe, 221 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 5: anti immigrant party. That's the sort of remainder of the 222 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 5: big campaigners for Brexit. 223 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 6: So there's a still quite a. 224 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 5: Many of the people who voted for Brexit, working class 225 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 5: voters in northern constituencies, old industrial constituencies. They are still 226 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,719 Speaker 5: feeling aggrieved about Brexit, and I don't think Labour wants 227 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 5: to go near it. They do want to unlock smaller 228 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 5: deals that will reduce some of these obstacles. The red tape, 229 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 5: which you're absolutely right, has hit growth, and I think 230 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 5: even that could have an impact if they make it 231 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 5: easier for importers and exporters who are now facing a 232 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 5: lot more red tape, even without changing anything else, that 233 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 5: could help trade at the margin and help growth. 234 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: So Stephanie, let me push you here a little bit, 235 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 2: because we have two big elections. We've just had the 236 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: UK elections, now we're about to have the second and 237 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: final round of the parliamentary elections in France, which seems 238 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: to be a quite different story where actually you have 239 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 2: one would to anticipate substantially to the right candidate in 240 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: Marine Lapen, who looks like she'll do reasonably well there. 241 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 2: The one constant seems to be anti incumbent. But is 242 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: there any through line through those two elections. 243 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 6: I think you've you've hit it, David. 244 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 2: I'm not. 245 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 5: Actually I'm on a bit of election road trip at 246 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 5: the moment because I'm going to be going off to 247 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 5: Paris and on Sunday to see those final results for myself. 248 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 5: It's been quite the week, but it does look as 249 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 5: though Marine le Penn's party Rassean Blemont Nationale is not 250 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 5: going to win a majority, in part because they've been 251 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 5: able to do the center, which is very weak. Mackerel's 252 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 5: party have been able to do some deals on the 253 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 5: sort of case by case basis with the left, who 254 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 5: are way to the left of certainly of the Labor 255 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 5: Party in the UK. 256 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: Stephanie has always such a treat to have you on 257 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 2: Wall Street Week. Thank you so much. That's Stephanie Flanders. 258 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 2: She's Bloomberg Senior Executive editor for Economics, and government coming up. 259 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: The Supreme Court thought it was helping business when an 260 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: overruled Chevron, but was it right. We talked with Kenny 261 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: Jacobs of Lazard. That's next time of Wall Street Week 262 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: on Bloomberg. 263 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Wall Street Week with David Weston from Bloomberg. 264 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: Great, this is Wall Street Week. I'm David Weston. Everyone 265 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: is talking about the Supreme Court decision this week on 266 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 2: presidential immunity. But for the business community, the more important 267 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 2: ruling may have been the one a week ago that 268 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: overturned the Chevron doctrine. To take us through what that 269 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: may mean, we welcome back now, Ken Jacobs. He is 270 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: executive chairman of Lazard, so Kent, welcome back. Almost two 271 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: years exactly since we talked about this subject. You are 272 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: ahead of your time on Chevron. Take us through exactly 273 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 2: what the risks of overturning Chevron really are. 274 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 3: Sure the potential exists contrary to conventional wisdom that Chevron 275 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 3: turns out to be anti business. I think the knee 276 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 3: jerk reaction, the immediate reaction is is that Chevron is 277 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 3: a pro business decision. 278 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,719 Speaker 2: Because courts can overturn more than that. 279 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 7: If you step back and you think about it. 280 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 3: If the US has three competitive advantages that have endured 281 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: for the last one hundred and fifty two hundred years. 282 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 3: It has rule of law, it has actually favorable demographics, 283 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 3: and it has one unified market. The risk in Chevron 284 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 3: is twofold. First around unified market. Unified market means that 285 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 3: when you have a product and you want to go 286 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 3: to market, you've got a market of three hundred and 287 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: thirty million people, second only to China, with one set 288 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 3: of effectively one set of rules, with the exception of 289 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 3: two or three industries financial. 290 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 7: Services, utilities, healthcare services. 291 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 3: With the exception of those industries, you essentially have one market, 292 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 3: three hundred and thirty million people, one set of rules. 293 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 3: As a startup company and an innovator, that's phenomenal. That's 294 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 3: why this company attracts entrepreneurs innovators like no other country 295 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 3: does in the world. The risk on Chevron is really twofold. 296 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 3: One is that you end up with uncertainty related to 297 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 3: the fact that there's just going to be a lot 298 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: more litigation. This opens up the possibility of being much 299 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 3: more litigation, so it creates unpredictability and uncertainty about what 300 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: the rules really are and what they will really be. 301 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 3: The second risk is around the fact that there just 302 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 3: may not be as much rulemaking at the federal level 303 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 3: for good reason. It's going to be more likely it'll 304 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 3: be overturned or litigated in court. But what that means 305 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 3: is there's a vacuum, and nature it abhors vacuums, and 306 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 3: that tends to then end up being regulated at state level. 307 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 3: And the risk of all this is you end up 308 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: with a market that was unified fragmenting into ideological, partisan 309 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 3: and procli interests. Now, I'm not suggesting that's taking place 310 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 3: over overnight, and I think there are also some protections 311 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 3: in place where that may not happen. But we shouldn't 312 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: suddenly cheer this decision as pro business. 313 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 7: It has a real risk of being the opposite. 314 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: So can you've spent a distinguished career advising clients, thinking 315 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 2: about doing M and A and things like that, What 316 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 2: does it do to you as an advisor when a 317 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: company comes to you and says, do I buy it? 318 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: Do I not buy it? Do I do this deal? 319 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: Not do this deal? What does it do if you're 320 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: not exactly sure what the rules? 321 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 7: Well, let's use real practical examples. You have a choice. 322 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: You can buy a company in Europe that is primarily 323 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 3: a European company, young company going to start up in 324 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 3: Europe it's operations, or you can plant yourself or buy 325 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: a company in the United States buying. If you think 326 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: about a young company in the United States, you've got 327 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 3: a market of three hundred and thirty million people. Accessing 328 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 3: the market is easy in Europe. You know, the EU 329 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 3: is better than the what existed before, but it's much 330 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 3: more complex. You have rulemaking at the top level, but 331 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: you still have enormous authority in the role of countries, 332 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 3: so that market isn't as unified as the US. And 333 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: as an innovator, you would always choose to be in 334 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 3: the US. And as a company if you're buying an innovator, 335 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 3: the same thing. 336 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: Also, let's talk about the litigation costs, because, as you said, 337 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: it looks like right now there'll be a big incentive 338 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: for a lot of people to challenge rules, a lot 339 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: of lawyer's money being generated. I'm not against that. I'm 340 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 2: a lawyer. You know it's all fine, But what are 341 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: the litigation costs, the friction costs they're being generated for this. 342 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 3: Well, First, it just creates some predictability when you have 343 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 3: decisions made by experts, which is, for better or worse, 344 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: what we're dealing with. 345 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 7: A lot of the time in agencies. 346 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 3: I don't mean for worse, but you know, most of 347 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 3: the agencies are people by civil servants who are really 348 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 3: expert in their field. And when you have experts, you 349 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 3: usually can predict what experts are going to do. I mean, yes, 350 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,239 Speaker 3: there's a lot of regulation that is imperfect, but you 351 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 3: can generally guess what they're going to do. When it 352 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 3: comes to courts, it's very different. You have ideology that 353 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 3: gets involved. We can see that in some of the 354 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 3: decisions coming out of Texas on abortion rights. We have 355 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 3: deep social beliefs in the same way you have people's 356 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 3: different views of the economy. Many of these trials could 357 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 3: end up in the hands of juries, which become less predictable. 358 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 3: So I think that's the real risk is you go 359 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 3: from something that is not perfect really is not perfect. 360 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 3: I'm a regulatory regime is not perfect at the federal level, 361 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,239 Speaker 3: but generally speaking, it's the same everywhere, and it's more 362 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 3: predictable than it's likely to be under this new regime. 363 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 2: So you have the Chevron decision, which is one of them, 364 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 2: which really overturned the rule that regulatory agencies we defer 365 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 2: to in the courts. Is this a pro business court? 366 00:17:59,200 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: Supreme Court? 367 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 7: I think this is a pro court court. 368 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 3: That's how I describe it, because I'm not sure these 369 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 3: decisions turn out to be pro business if you go 370 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 3: from predictable to unpredictable, and I think the key to 371 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 3: business is predictability. That is, uncertainty is the curse of 372 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 3: business and the curse of markets. And you only really 373 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 3: know that when things are really uncertain. That's when you 374 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 3: crave the predictability. So I don't think we're going to 375 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 3: see this overnight. But no, I don't think this is 376 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 3: necessarily pro business. It may in the beginning feel like 377 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 3: it is, but I think the real risk is the 378 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 3: predictability issue. 379 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 7: I think this is very pro courts. 380 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 3: I think we're going to see a lot more litigation, 381 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 3: a lot more intervention by courts and decisions which in 382 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 3: the past sort of happened. 383 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 2: As a business leader, how confident are you the Supreme 384 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: Court understands the ramifications in the real world of what 385 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: they're deciding. 386 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 3: Look, I have huge respect for the people that are 387 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 3: on the Supreme Court. I mean, these are all enormously 388 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 3: accomplished people, and when you actually sit down and you 389 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 3: read these decisions. I'm not a lawyer, they're impressive writing 390 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 3: and they're very well argued and such. I think the 391 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: risk at the Supreme Court, and I think generally if 392 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 3: more power is going to the judiciary, is that I 393 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 3: don't think any of these any of these judges have 394 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 3: really ever managed a company. They've nearly They've never had 395 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 3: to deal with a budget, They've never had to deal 396 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 3: with a workforce, They've never had to deal with the 397 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 3: board of directors or with shareholders, and so I think 398 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 3: there's a little bit of ideology naivete at work here 399 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 3: about not being in the real world. Now, maybe that's 400 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 3: a curse of our system, that is it's next to impossible. 401 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 3: I think something you and I talked about before, where 402 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 3: it's next to impossible to get confirmed by a Congress 403 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 3: if you have a record. But I think that's the 404 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 3: real risk here. 405 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 2: Ken, it's always great to have you this, Thank you 406 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 2: so very much. That is Ken Jacobs of Blizard. This week, 407 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 2: the United States celebrated its Independence Day, and Wall Street 408 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 2: Week traveled across town to talk with one of the 409 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 2: many who immigrated to America and helped Wall Street and 410 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: the country become what it is today. We're here at 411 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 2: the Museum of the City, New York, where a lot 412 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: of the history of New York City is portrayed, and 413 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 2: we are joined by Peter Georgescu, former head of Young 414 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 2: In Rupham, who himself is part of that history. 415 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 4: So Peter, it's great to be with you. David, what 416 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 4: a thrill. Delighted to be with you. 417 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 2: So it take us back to when you came to 418 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 2: New York and made some history in nineteen fifty four war. 419 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 4: Oh my goodness. Well, my story starts thousands of miles 420 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 4: from here in Romania, born of Romanian parents, just at 421 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 4: the eve of the Second World War. So my parents 422 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 4: smelled that it was going to be trouble in the capital, 423 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 4: so they shipped my brother five years old and I 424 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 4: to Transylvania with my mother's parents, aging grandparents, wonderful people, 425 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 4: and so the Second World War was with my grandparents 426 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 4: in Romania, and we survived the war and it wasn't pleasant, 427 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 4: but it wasn't horrific. And so my father, unfortunately was 428 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 4: put in prison by the Germans because he worked for 429 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 4: an American company exile and uh in the oil fields 430 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 4: and uh Germans of course took an ally guy and 431 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 4: threw him into prison. They almost killed him. But then 432 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 4: the president of Romania decided that he better get some 433 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 4: friends on the other side. What if the Germans don't 434 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 4: win the war. So he literally faced the firing squad 435 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 4: and they gave him a last minute reprieve close. But anyway, 436 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 4: he worked for they. He they didn't know that he 437 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 4: worked for the oss from prison. That's another story. So 438 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 4: we reunited as a family in forty six in Romania, 439 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 4: my brother, my m you know, the organic family. I 440 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 4: learned how to bite from my father and that was 441 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 4: the actually the longest time a year that I've ever 442 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 4: spent with my parents. What happened was, uh, the beginning 443 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 4: of forty nine. In January, my mother and father came 444 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 4: to New York for a general manager's meeting at thirty 445 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 4: Rock here in New York City for excellent for the 446 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 4: exile worldwide Manager's meeting. He was at a time that 447 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 4: the Communists took over Romania. The Aaron Curtain comes down, 448 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 4: and little O me alright, uh, at that time was 449 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 4: just over seven years old. Was there, Ah, the birth 450 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 4: of communists, one of most powerful autocracy that the world 451 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 4: has ever seen, and Romania was another one. It has 452 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 4: a reputation that it was not so bad. 453 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 2: It was the worst. 454 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 4: Three hundred thousand people were killed and so then shortly 455 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 4: thereafter they arrested my brother, myself and my grandmother were 456 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 4: thrown close to the Russian border in a small town 457 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 4: called Boshan. And Uh, that's always see the beginnings of 458 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 4: what do you do people are funcible? Do you use 459 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 4: people to do things? 460 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 2: Uh? 461 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 4: And I I I was a witness to what I 462 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 4: learned and later learned to understand was totalitarianism, autocracy. And 463 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 4: we were pawns. I never knew why they kept us alive, 464 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 4: but we became pawns, as I mentioned in a minute. 465 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 4: But anyway, in in this little town, we got up 466 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 4: at six o'clock in the morning, We went to work 467 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 4: six days a week, ten hours a day. Sundays you slept. 468 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 2: And you were howled. 469 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 4: And I was ten years old. No books, no learning, 470 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 4: no nothing. You go into work six days a week, 471 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 4: you slept on Sundays. 472 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 2: That was life. 473 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 4: And there was no hope. There was no discussion between us, 474 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 4: my brother and I. But hey, how is it gonna 475 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 4: be when we grow old or when we grow up 476 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 4: or we're nothing? And then in New York they tried 477 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 4: to give my father to spy for them, and that's 478 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 4: why they had kept us alive to be debate. Wanted 479 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 4: to see your children alive again, you're gonna spy for us. 480 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 4: My father went home from the office where he met 481 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 4: with this guy and my mother and he talked. The 482 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 4: next morning he went to the FBI and said, this 483 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 4: is what happened. Whether I do they say, become a 484 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 4: double agent? My father said, uh, I've seen that play. 485 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 4: It doesn't work well. Sooner or later they will kill 486 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 4: the kids. Anyway, what do we do? Eventually they said, 487 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 4: go public. The Russians wanted the world to think of 488 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 4: Communism is friendly and nice and warm and fuzzy, and 489 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 4: so maybe they'll tell the Romanians they can kill the kids. 490 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 4: So that's what they did. Every little town in America 491 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 4: had a story of the blackmail of uh parents about 492 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 4: their kids. 493 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 2: In Romania. 494 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 4: A wonderful woman from Ohio, Francis Payne Bolton, she took 495 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 4: over her husband's seat. She was in want to be 496 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 4: a woman in Congress. Not only that she was head 497 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 4: of the Congressional Foreign Relations committing in Congress, she had 498 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 4: met Style and she knew this story close up. My 499 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 4: father said, I get you boys out of Romania. Not 500 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 4: a long story. But at the end of the day 501 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 4: she calls her friend Eisenhower, whom she helped elect as president. 502 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 4: So she had some chits on Ike. We got traded 503 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 4: for a bunch of Russian spies. 504 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 2: So the President United States intervened on your behalf to 505 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 2: get you out of Romania, and so he did. When 506 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: we come back, we continue our conversation with Peter georg 507 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 2: Escu about his rise to the top of Young and Rubecamp, 508 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 2: the opportunities he had, and whether he sees the same 509 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: opportunities for those starting out today. That's next on Wall 510 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 2: Street Week on Bloomberg. 511 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Wall Street Week with David Weston from 512 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. 513 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: This is Wall Street Week. I'm David Weston. Peter george 514 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: Escu fled Communist Romania and climbed to the top of 515 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 2: the average industry in New York. We talked with him 516 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 2: about the opportunities he enjoyed, the strengths of the capitalist 517 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 2: system he helped drive and what has changed over the 518 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 2: course of his career. 519 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 4: Right apprenticed in the research department at Yander Rubikam and 520 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 4: I ended up running the company. It says, I was 521 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 4: your first non American around the CEO to do that, 522 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 4: to be CEO in America, they were not. The immigrants 523 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 4: never got to run things in those days. 524 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 2: The contrast between the system in Romania you came from 525 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 2: and the one you found in nineteen fifty four, and 526 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 2: it says, could not have been more overwhelming. 527 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 4: It was a stunner. That was the biggest difference. Freedom, 528 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 4: kindness of people who reached out. Even there in Romania, 529 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 4: everybody was afraid of everything, because this is what totality 530 00:26:53,600 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 4: Terranism is an insidious disease, you know, it's s uh, 531 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 4: really strong people, cruel, inhumane who protect the interests of 532 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 4: one minorities against the vast majority of the population. And 533 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 4: that's what communists really was. It was not an ideology 534 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 4: that was nonsense. There was just the people in power 535 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 4: who took it all, who lived well, we got the 536 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 4: money and they were determined and committed to just carry 537 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 4: on for the next generation of communists, and so forth 538 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 4: and so on, and there was no freedom, there was 539 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 4: no there was no public good. And here there was democracy, 540 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 4: this thing, as I learned way back. 541 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 2: The Greeks played around with that. 542 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 4: But democracy was about people. That's what it means. It's 543 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 4: of the people, by the people, for the people. And 544 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 4: we in America have been blessed by Gene our forefathers, 545 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 4: who believed in a few critical principles that I so embraced. 546 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 4: When I learned about them, I said, my God, old 547 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 4: men are created equal. These idealistic viewers of America meant 548 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 4: so much to me, and I believe I learned to 549 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 4: believe and have faith that I'll be okay in this country. 550 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 2: It does strike me coming to the United States in 551 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 2: nineteen the fifties, there was a time of almost unlimited opportunity, at. 552 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 4: Least for some. As you say, the equality question had 553 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 4: a lot. 554 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 2: Of work to be done on it, but unlimited opportunity 555 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 2: and equality of opportunity at least was the goal. That 556 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 2: always the goal people saw it. Do we have that 557 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 2: same level of opportunity and equality of opportunity today the 558 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 2: United States? As you saw in nineteen fifty four, You. 559 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 4: Know, David, the magical thing is that, as you said, 560 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 4: I got to the American dream importantly because of the 561 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 4: time America during right after the war was probably for 562 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 4: the next forty years, was the best of America. Was 563 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 4: the most selfless that America or a country could be, 564 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 4: that ever was. 565 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 2: In the world. 566 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 4: And then things began to change slowly in the eighties 567 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 4: or so. Business became something else. Business was uh caring 568 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 4: about workers and s shareholders and communities and the customer a 569 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 4: lot four or five stakeholders. And then it all changed. 570 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,479 Speaker 4: It changed in the early nineteen eighties and the mantra 571 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 4: became the the leaders of business and government. The Reagan 572 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 4: administration decided, we're paying workers too much money, why do 573 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 4: we need that. Let's kill the unions, which they did. 574 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 4: Now unions had some problems, they'd be fixed. It became 575 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 4: criminalized and so forth. So they're not angels. But the 576 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 4: idea was listic advantage of everything that we can and 577 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 4: maximize short term share of the values, and let's make 578 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 4: the few of us again where it was moving towards we, 579 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 4: the rich people who were going to take We'll have 580 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 4: our kids well educated and all the rest of it. 581 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 4: The hell of the rest of the people. And forty 582 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 4: years of that and America became the most unequal nation 583 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 4: in the world economically financial well being. Today, sixty percent 584 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 4: of American people say I'm financially secure, I'm worried about 585 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 4: my existence. In fact, sixty percent of American families can't 586 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 4: put food on the table, so pay their rent most months, 587 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 4: and they have to borrow money sometimes. And it's not 588 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 4: the bank, it's private people. It's very expensive. It's tough 589 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 4: out there. We have become the most socially inept the 590 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 4: ability to move from one strato society the next compared 591 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 4: to anybody else in the developed world. And even our education. 592 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 4: We invented public education, and yet our kids today are 593 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,479 Speaker 4: the bottom of the developed world. So that's what happened 594 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 4: in forty years, driven by business, and the government did 595 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 4: not do enough to fix the. 596 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 2: Problem well, and in some instances the government may have 597 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 2: exacerbated some of that for its own reasons. And we've 598 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 2: had a couple of major crises in this century, with 599 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 2: the Great Financial Crisis in two thousand and eight two 600 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 2: thousand and nine, for the government felt they had to 601 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 2: come in and give support to the economy, and then 602 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 2: we had the pandemic. Again, the government feld had to 603 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 2: come in, and again there are reasons for that. At 604 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 2: the same time, it did tend to enhance the wealthy 605 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 2: and the people particularly owned capital, to the disadvantage the 606 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 2: people who did not have capital. 607 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 4: It's exactly right, because there's a fix here. And that's 608 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 4: why I'm saying people don't understand that it was the 609 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 4: business community that really helped drive this level of inequality 610 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 4: in America, and it is business and capitalism that has 611 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 4: to fix it. Capitalism is the right engine. Capitalism doesn't 612 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 4: care who the beneficiary is, whether it's twenty or thirty 613 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 4: percent of America or the vast majority of America. Capitalist 614 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 4: works in China, and it's a machine. It's having access 615 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 4: to access to resources, risk taking ability. That's what capitalism. 616 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 4: It's not an ethical machine. The only thing he knows 617 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 4: is produces wealth and well being. Now, who benefits from 618 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 4: that is the governance. That's it, and we had the 619 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 4: wrong version of it. Everything went to the shareholders by design, 620 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 4: and it was kept that way. And now it's beginning 621 00:32:58,840 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 4: to change because it has to. 622 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 2: Well what about that beginning to change? Is it changing 623 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 2: and what is causing him to change? 624 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 4: Well, it has, you know, in many ways, I believe 625 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 4: it really must change, because why am I saying that 626 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 4: the precursor of totality Terranism that I sold in Romania 627 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 4: is a large enough minority of people who are under educated. 628 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 4: They don't have the confidence in the society will help them, 629 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 4: They become desperate, they become anarchists. And now today we're 630 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 4: seeing lots of those folks who don't believe that the 631 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 4: current system will ever come to help them. 632 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 2: Many thanks to Peter George Escu, former head of Young 633 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 2: and Rubicam. Nearly two hundred years ago, in his epic 634 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: Democracy in America, Alexei Diktkvil wrote that the position of 635 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: Americans is quite exceptional, and it may be believed that 636 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: no democratic people will ever replaced in a similar one. 637 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 2: This week, the United States celebrated its two hundred and 638 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 2: forty eighth birthday, still trying to live up to that potential. 639 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 2: Jane Hartley, the US Ambassador to the Court of Saint James, 640 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 2: at her annual Fourth of July celebration in central London 641 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 2: this year, noted the irony in British elections being held 642 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 2: on American Independence Day. If only King George the third 643 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 2: had included the colonies and elections back in seventeen seventy six, 644 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: things might have turned out very differently. These days, we 645 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 2: have no shortage of politicians telling us that we're exceptional. 646 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 4: I've always believed that one of the greatest trands of America. 647 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 2: You've retired of hearing me say it is our diversity. 648 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 8: We're going to make America great again. We're going to 649 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 8: make it better than ever before November fifth. Remember, November 650 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 8: fifth is the most important day in the history of 651 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 8: our country. 652 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 2: But Independence Day is always a good time to take 653 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,959 Speaker 2: stock of how we're doing. Sure, there are some ways 654 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 2: that the United States is different from much or all 655 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: of the rest of the world, like, for example, and 656 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 2: the and barrage of TV ads for pricey prescription drugs 657 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 2: up to and including the latest craze of shots to 658 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 2: help us all lose weight. And America certainly has distinguished 659 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,760 Speaker 2: itself by demonstrating every Fourth of July ways to put 660 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 2: on the weight we need to take off, like by 661 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 2: holding contests to see how many hot dogs we can eat, 662 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 2: though this year the perennial Coney Island favorite Joey Chestnut 663 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 2: was disqualified by cheating on the traditional hot dog with 664 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 2: a plant based alternative. But there are other more important 665 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 2: ways in which the United States continues to lead, as 666 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 2: in its having more developed, deeper capital markets than anywhere else. 667 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 9: Most of our capital markets and the attraction globally to 668 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 9: invest in our economy is based on the rule of law, 669 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 9: and it's based on the independence and the capability of 670 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 9: our institutions, even with all of the political challenges that 671 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 9: we have to function in a way that can create certainty, 672 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 9: certainty for employer, certainty for investors. 673 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 2: And having an economy that, at least for the time being, 674 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 2: is the envy of the world, attracting investment like never before. 675 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 10: US exceptionalism or US dynamic investment is still going very, 676 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 10: very strong. That's really for no reason except we have 677 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 10: great innovation in the US, we have great technology AI 678 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 10: and then of course rule of law when it comes 679 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 10: to financial markets. 680 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 2: And there is one other way that the United States 681 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 2: continues to be exceptional, one that sometimes may seem like 682 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 2: a problem, but that actually signals a strength. Everyone wants 683 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 2: to come here, sometimes against the law, providing a constant 684 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: source of political conflict and burdens on our cities. 685 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 7: It looks like We have substantially increased immigration right. 686 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 2: Now, but much of the immigration recently has been entirely 687 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 2: legal and has helped spur our economic growth while controlling wages. 688 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 4: Immigration is good, but a rational immigration policy would be better. 689 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 2: One of those who came to the United States to 690 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 2: pursue his dreams was the late great Peter Jennings, for 691 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 2: many years anchor of ABC World News Tonight. Peter was 692 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 2: proud of being a Canadian, and some question whether so 693 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 2: much of America should be getting its news every night 694 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 2: from a foreigner. Peter and I became quite close during 695 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 2: our time working together at ABC News, including through his 696 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 2: marathon anchoring of our twenty four hour Millennium program and 697 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 2: then his NonStop nine to eleven coverage. We shared the 698 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 2: same birthday and each year would exchange gifts. One day, 699 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 2: he came to my office with my gift that year 700 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 2: and told me, with tears in his eyes, that he 701 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 2: had just become a US citizen. Peter never hesitated to 702 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 2: question and even criticize his adopted country. He saw the 703 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 2: ways in which we fell short, but he never lost 704 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 2: sight of the potential for exceptionalism that Totolkville had seen, 705 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 2: and he gave me my present that year, a pair 706 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 2: of American flag cuflinks that I wear to this day. 707 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 7: That does it. 708 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 2: For this episode of Wall Street Week, I'm David Weston. 709 00:37:54,760 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg. See you next week.