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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Alexis code named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly,

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Speaker 3: you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 3: want you to.

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Speaker 2: Know it is.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're getting into January as you hear this

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Speaker 3: on Monday twenty twenty four. Still nuts to say, and

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Speaker 3: there is so much strange news in the world. As

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Speaker 3: we record, we're going to explore all sorts of bizarre things.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna mention a lot of stories on the way.

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Speaker 3: But tonight, folks, we're going to talk about some secrets

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Speaker 3: in space. We're going to talk about airbnb, the value

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Speaker 3: proposition being what if you went to a hotel but

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Speaker 3: you also had to clean it.

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Speaker 4: Or at the very least pay to clean it.

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Speaker 3: And before we do any of that, we're going to

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Speaker 3: intro our first story for this segment with a lovely

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Speaker 3: little piece of music. Are you guys. Ready, I'm quite excited.

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Speaker 3: Not so ready, Matt, you're feeling good on this one.

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Speaker 2: I don't know yet.

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Speaker 4: There we go, Here we are.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna stop it there? Okay, so we could still

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Speaker 3: play it safe. I think we can all guess the

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Speaker 3: beginning just from that slight snatch of music.

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Speaker 4: I mean it made me pump my arms furiously like

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Speaker 4: a little cartoon guy. You know we pretending to be

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Speaker 4: steering a steamboat.

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Speaker 3: You're right, it is of Montreal.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, I was genuinely attempting to ascertain what I

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Speaker 2: was hearing, Like, what were those instruments? If you guys

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Speaker 2: had to say, what were they?

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Speaker 4: They're called the tooty pipes. Pipes?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, theies.

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Speaker 2: H are you guys saying actual words? Are you messing

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Speaker 2: with me? There?

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Speaker 5: So I would say some sort of I mean, you know,

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Speaker 5: this is what what are we talking about?

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Speaker 4: The twenties?

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Speaker 3: So that is a That is the intro music for

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Speaker 3: a short film that changed the world, Steamboat Willie, which

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Speaker 3: premiered in nineteen twenty eight. It features non speaking versions

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Speaker 3: of two very popular anthropomorphic rodents, Mickey and many Mouse.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 3: There's a ton of stuff to be said about Steamboat

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Speaker 3: Willie about the way it was inspired by previous works

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Speaker 3: like the A Singer and so on. But what we

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Speaker 3: need to know for now is that, according to some

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Speaker 3: of the boffins at at Duke University, January first was

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Speaker 3: celebrated as public Domain Day. We joke about Disney pretty

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Speaker 3: often on this show, all in good fun if the

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Speaker 3: lawyers are listening. But despite decades of efforts to control

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Speaker 3: this depiction of this cartoon, Mouse Steamboat Willie officially has

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Speaker 3: entered public domain. And that's one of the big stories

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Speaker 3: going around in the West. There's a lot of noise

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Speaker 3: and misinformation going around about it. So we thought what

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Speaker 3: better way to kick off this evening than to talk

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Speaker 3: about this idea of Mickey Mouse is officially free or

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Speaker 3: is he connected? A dund.

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Speaker 4: Perfect thank you for that might even be copy copyrighted. No,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, that might been in public demand. It

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Speaker 4: sounds like something that would have been like premiered to

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Speaker 4: the visual of a young Maiden tied to some train tracks.

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Speaker 4: But Matt really quickly to answer your question. Probably if

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Speaker 4: it's the twenties, that sound very much air moving through pipes,

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Speaker 4: so probably a calliope, one of those cranky circus type instruments,

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Speaker 4: you know, sort of like mechanical flutes. But wow, yeah, Ben,

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Speaker 4: So I've heard some of the scuttle. But that I've

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Speaker 4: heard is that, like, first of all, it is this

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Speaker 4: version of Mickey Mouse visually and Minny Mouse. But somehow

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Speaker 4: they've managed to stay grasping on at least intellectual property

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Speaker 4: wise to the gloves.

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Speaker 5: What's up with that they're wearing gloves in this short

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Speaker 5: So let me go.

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Speaker 3: Back to the beginning where we're going here, the Steamboat Willie,

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Speaker 3: you're right, is a early depiction of Mickey Mouse. It

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Speaker 3: is not the same thing. And one thing a lot

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Speaker 3: of people are getting mixed up with here is the

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Speaker 3: difference between what is called the trademark and what is

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Speaker 3: called a copyright. A copyright expires, a trademark does not. Also,

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Speaker 3: this only applies to United States law. Under current US law,

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Speaker 3: anything that was released between nineteen twenty four and nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy eight is copyrighted for ninety five years. This doesn't

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Speaker 3: just include things like Steamboat Willie. It includes things like

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Speaker 3: novels like DH Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's Lover, films like Charlie

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Speaker 3: Chaplin's the circus, but far and away. The Michael Jordan

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Speaker 3: of all this previously non public domain stuff is our boy,

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Speaker 3: Steamboat Willie, and you can see it now wherever you

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Speaker 3: like to watch stuff, probably YouTube. Check out our episode

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Speaker 3: on YouTube. This cartoon's pretty short. It shows Mickey Mouse

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Speaker 3: on a steamboat and he's whistling and he's getting into

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Speaker 3: high jinks with the captain of the boat, who is

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Speaker 3: a cat named Pete.

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Speaker 2: Wait then Pete the cat is also because it wasn't

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Speaker 2: Pete the cat used a lot after this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, in various iterations, but I mean, yeah, he was.

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Speaker 4: Certainly this is like a proto version of that kind

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Speaker 4: of bully cat character, sort of like the Blue Do

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Speaker 4: to Popeye. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, I mean there was also entering.

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Speaker 4: The public domain soon by the way, Popeye. That's coming

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Speaker 4: up real soon, but please sorry.

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Speaker 3: There are a ton of misconceptions about what just happened.

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Speaker 3: First off, Steamboat Willie was not the first cartoon to

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Speaker 3: use synchronize sound if you're looking at the history of

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Speaker 3: invention here. But a lot of people, including your faithful

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Speaker 3: correspondence fellow conspiracy realists, have wondered why Disney was able

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Speaker 3: to bend the rules of copyright law for so long.

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Speaker 3: It happened a couple of times, to be honest with you.

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Speaker 3: One of the more recent ones was in nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 3: when Disney extended copyright law from seventy five years to

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Speaker 3: ninety five years of exclusivity in what is now known

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Speaker 3: as the Mickey Mouse Protection Act. And it's not known

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Speaker 3: that's the street name and it's not a compliment. This also,

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Speaker 3: we should say, includes the animation what is It Playing?

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Speaker 4: Crazy?

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Speaker 3: P L a n E. You can now use all

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Speaker 3: of these depictions without permission from Disney proper, but there

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Speaker 3: are a ton of caveats, and you have to be

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Speaker 3: careful with those. You can't You can't, for instance, use

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Speaker 3: the more modern depictions of Mickey Mouse because those are

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Speaker 3: still trademarked. You can't use the Disney logo with the

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Speaker 3: Mouseketeer ears because Disney's rights to those never expire. And

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of stuff going on here that I

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Speaker 3: think it's fair to say this is some stuff that

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Speaker 3: Disney doesn't want you to know. Definitely, the lawyers don't

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Speaker 3: want people to know until they get their fees. And

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Speaker 3: lawyers are about to make a ton of money off

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Speaker 3: of this, Like here's here's one question for the group.

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Speaker 3: Is Disney not being a tad hypocritical about public domain?

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Speaker 3: Did Disney not make literal billions of dollars off of

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Speaker 3: public domain stories such as Cinderella insert pretty much any

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Speaker 3: Western fairy tale here, snow White and the Seven Dwarves,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. Like where do they get off? Is a

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Speaker 3: question the public is asking, what do you guys think

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Speaker 3: about that?

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Speaker 4: I'll tell you where they get off the bank. That's

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Speaker 4: where cash all those mouse checks. I don't know. To me,

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Speaker 4: it's more it's less about making money and more about

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Speaker 4: protecting their brand because there's such a target, you know,

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Speaker 4: for parody and for outright mockery, that it's kind of

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Speaker 4: easy for people to take something like this and use

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Speaker 4: it as an excuse to drag the Disney brand through

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Speaker 4: the mud. And whether or not it's like the current

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Speaker 4: Mickey Mouse version or not that's available to do that with.

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Speaker 4: I do think they are going to still try to

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Speaker 4: be pretty litigious with this stuff and have been in

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Speaker 4: the past. There's this guy in Athens, Georgia who's a

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Speaker 4: screen printer who used to do these weirdo kind of

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Speaker 4: twisted Mickey Mouse prints and put them on T shirts,

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Speaker 4: and the Mouse lawyers found him, this little hipster niche

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Speaker 4: screen printer guy in Athens, Georgia. I'd send him multiple

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Speaker 4: season assists letters, so, you know, and they were sort

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Speaker 4: of like it would be like his head would be

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Speaker 4: on his butt and I, you know, the weird things

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Speaker 4: zis would be mixed up in the wrong order or

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Speaker 4: something like that, or parts would be reversed. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: he had to stop doing that for fear of, you know,

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Speaker 4: being sued out of existence. This guy could couldn't afford

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Speaker 4: to fight the mouse lawyers.

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Speaker 3: There's also just an interject here, there's also the very

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Speaker 3: very real observation that the lawyers have to justify their employment.

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Speaker 3: Bill blowers are a big deal, so they are incentivized

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Speaker 3: to send c and ds.

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Speaker 5: For sure.

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Speaker 2: I want to get back to the question you post

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Speaker 2: been thank you just about using using stuff that has

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Speaker 2: entered the public domain to create new things that are

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Speaker 2: not necessarily an update. Like in the case of Disney,

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Speaker 2: they're updating those old tales, right, putting their own spin

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Speaker 2: on it and inserting their own characters which were copyrightable. Right,

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Speaker 2: So now it is a Mickey and Donald adventure and

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Speaker 2: not you know, the original characters that went on whatever

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Speaker 2: whatever adventure. So that is a in a way, a

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Speaker 2: money grab to create a marketable, copyrightable thing that can

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Speaker 2: then become a film, it can become a TV show,

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Speaker 2: it can become a comic book. It's that makes sense

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Speaker 2: to use then their characters that they've created. I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's I don't think humans are meant to be

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Speaker 2: alive long enough and have institutions that last long enough

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Speaker 2: to where that ninety five years is an issue. Does

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Speaker 2: that make sense?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it does.

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Speaker 3: There's also it may sound like we are splitting hairs.

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Speaker 3: That's what people do in these sorts of legal arguments.

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Speaker 3: You don't just split hairs. You talk about small nuances

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Speaker 3: like the design of an eye, right, whether or not

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Speaker 3: color is applied. The post nineteen twenty eight Mickey Mouse

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Speaker 3: is still very much Disney's the pre nineteen twenty eight

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Speaker 3: or nineteen twenty eight, and before Mickey Mouse, that is

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Speaker 3: fair game. Another big exception, another big big asterisk, which

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Speaker 3: is probably gonna trip some people up. One cannot use

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Speaker 3: steamboat Willie or Mini or what's the other guy, peg

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Speaker 3: Leg Pete the captain one cannot use them in a

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Speaker 3: way that appears to imply that Disney has co signed

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Speaker 3: whatever you're doing. And that part, actually, I hate to

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Speaker 3: sound like the bad cop here, that part is a

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Speaker 3: pretty good argument because copyright trademark this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: These laws exist for a reason. If you used, for example,

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Speaker 3: a depiction of Mickey Mouse to appear as though it

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Speaker 3: were endorsing evil, evil things. You know, if it was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: the Kick Puppies campaign twenty twenty four or Project twenty

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Speaker 3: to twenty five and the Big Old Picture Mickey Mouse

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Speaker 3: co signing evil stuff, then Disney would be within their

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Speaker 3: rights to say, hey, don't associate us with your weird

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Speaker 3: puppy kicking endeavors.

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Speaker 4: But what about this like kind of fly by Night

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Speaker 4: like horror video game that is already you know, making

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Speaker 4: the rounds and similar to the one of the Yeah,

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Speaker 4: very simply when the Poo was a film was a

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Speaker 4: really really bad slasher film. It was called like Blood

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Speaker 4: and Honey. There are apparently already no less than two

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Speaker 4: early Mickey Mouse depictions that are going to be featured

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Speaker 4: in horror films. And then there was this very clearly

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Speaker 4: slapped together shoot them up kind of Resident Evil type

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Speaker 4: video game. I mean, I guess my question is where

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Speaker 4: is the line drawn, Like if you're showing a beloved

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Speaker 4: spokes mouse, you know, for a company like that murdering teenagers,

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Speaker 4: is that that different than having him saying it's okay

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Speaker 4: to kick puppies? Like, at what point is it satire

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Speaker 4: or entertainment? And what point is it actually telling co

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Speaker 4: signing these kind of actions.

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Speaker 2: We'll have to let the courts figure it out.

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Speaker 3: You're exactly right, Matt. That is where the stuff they

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Speaker 3: don't want you to know naturally leads in this situation.

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Speaker 3: I want to shout out a great write up by

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Speaker 3: Jess weatherbed Over at The Verge. I also want to

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Speaker 3: shout out for anybody who really wants to get in

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Speaker 3: the weeds. Reason dot com by Joe Lancaster has a

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Speaker 3: great is a great article on this which says Mickey

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Speaker 3: Mouse is now in the public domain dot dot dot,

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Speaker 3: well sort of, and this The issues here are myriad.

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Speaker 3: They extend in so many directions, just like a slime

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Speaker 3: mold mapping out the Tokyo railway system. To your earlier question,

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Speaker 3: there artistic merit parody versus propaganda horror movies or you know,

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Speaker 3: one off flash games, et cetera. It's not a flash game,

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Speaker 3: but you know what I mean, the indie games. Then

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Speaker 3: what we have to look at is the original intent

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Speaker 3: of copyright law. To your previous excellent point, Matt, copyright

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Speaker 3: law was intended to contribute to the public domain. It

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Speaker 3: was intended ultimately to give a creator a window of

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Speaker 3: time to get their bag essentially, and then for that

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Speaker 3: to enter into the zeitgey such that it could be

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Speaker 3: used to inspire to create more works of unique cultural

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Speaker 3: import And the argument goes by kicking the can down

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Speaker 3: the road not once but twice. By the way, the

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Speaker 3: mouse proper was able to stymy this creativity. And I

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Speaker 3: want to give again a big shout out. I don't

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Speaker 3: think I named it earlier. Jennifer Jenkins, who is the

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Speaker 3: director of the Duke Center for the Study of the

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Speaker 3: Public Domain, wrote an excellent article that you can read

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Speaker 3: at a web dot law dot Duke dot edu right now.

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Speaker 3: And Jenkins in this part doesn't just list off all

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Speaker 3: the stuff that entered the public domain on January first,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, but also pays special attention to the

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Speaker 3: importance of public domain in the world of creativity. We

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Speaker 3: talk about it occasionally on this show. You know, what

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Speaker 3: makes something an homage, what makes something plagiarism? You know,

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Speaker 3: And that's to your earlier question. That's one of those things.

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Speaker 3: Like the judge who decided whether or not Ulysses was pornographic.

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Speaker 3: The ruling was, well, I know it when I see it,

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Speaker 3: and legally that doesn't hold water.

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Speaker 4: I sort of maybe jumped the gun when I asked

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Speaker 4: earlier about like the gloves, Like what about some of

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Speaker 4: the features of Mickey Mouse as we kind of know

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Speaker 4: him today. I found an article referencing a twenty twelve

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Speaker 4: Reuters piece that cited a poster touting Mickey Mouse as

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Speaker 4: the quote World's funniest cartoon, which, how I think Mickey

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Speaker 4: Mouse is really cute. I've never really thought of him

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Speaker 4: as being particularly funny, but I guess it was a

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Speaker 4: different time. But that dates back to nineteen twenty eight

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Speaker 4: and the poster. While the film you know then was

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Speaker 4: black and white, the posters in color, and Mickey is

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Speaker 4: wearing his signature red short with the two little dots

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Speaker 4: on the front and yellow gloves, which I know became

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Speaker 4: white if I'm not mistaken. Later down the Road.

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Speaker 5: So do you know if that is lumped in with

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Speaker 5: this or is that also.

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Speaker 4: Something in the court You're gonna have to decide, like,

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Speaker 4: is the color version also up for grabs or is

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Speaker 4: it just the black and white version as featured in

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Speaker 4: Steamboat Willie or do we not quite it.

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Speaker 3: Is conclusively simply the black and white version as depicted

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Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty eight and earlier, which again includes more

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Speaker 3: than just Steamboat Willie. It includes playing Crazy, and I

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Speaker 3: believe right in fellow conspiracy realist conspiracy di iHeartRadio dot Com,

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Speaker 3: I believe it also includes a third piece that was

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Speaker 3: not distributed or was not widely distributed, which I learned

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Speaker 3: about or is reading history of the Disney dynasty or empire.

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Speaker 2: But then now we're on a rolling yearly Disney property

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Speaker 2: you like release of copyright, right, I mean every year.

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Speaker 2: Now it's like we hit that threshold and now more

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Speaker 2: and more characters are going to be in the public domain.

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Speaker 3: And to the earlier question, the differences, which may seem

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Speaker 3: small to the average consumer, are huge in the courtroom

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Speaker 3: colorization mentioned earlier, Uh, the design of eyes like Disney

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Speaker 3: has gotten in front of this because Disney has for

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Speaker 3: quite some time been proactively sort of revitalizing or reimagining

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Speaker 3: Mickey and it's you could argue the conspiracy here is

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Speaker 3: to further distance the modern Mickey from the steamboat Willie

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Speaker 3: origin such that they become two distinct legal entities.

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Speaker 4: Well it's funny too. Outside of branding, Mickey Mouse hasn't

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Speaker 4: exactly been like a hot character, you know, for a

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Speaker 4: long time, hasn't really been featured in any movies, you know,

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Speaker 4: really or any of the like big tentpole things. He's

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Speaker 4: in a couple of the rides at Disney, but they're

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Speaker 4: even those are sort of throwback, kind of like vintage feeling.

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Speaker 4: And if anyone's been to Disney World or Land recently,

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Speaker 4: you'll notice that they've really pivoted away from Mickey Mouse

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Speaker 4: as being the kind of spokes perst creature and now

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Speaker 4: it's this dragon called Figment. And that was very calculated,

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Speaker 4: you know, knowing that all of these changes were coming.

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Speaker 4: They didn't want to, you know, have their branded kind

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Speaker 4: of spokes character be something that could even remotely be

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Speaker 4: you know, lampooned in the public domain. And to my

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Speaker 4: previous thing about the color poster, some sources put it

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Speaker 4: in nineteen twenty eight, but a lot of others put

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Speaker 4: it in nineteen twenty nine to nineteen thirty, so I

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Speaker 4: do think that that might come up. But it does

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Speaker 4: appear that if it was even a year later, then

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Speaker 4: what you're talking about ben that the call the color

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Speaker 4: stuff is off the table.

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Speaker 3: And there's a lot of stuff on the docket again

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Speaker 3: in court law and order. The mouseum, what we're going

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Speaker 3: to see here is somewhat precedented or predicated by the

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Speaker 3: case that we the public saw with Wennie the Pooh,

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Speaker 3: which entered the domain in the public domain in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two. This is overall a win for creativity. We

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Speaker 3: could argue this is very much not a David versus

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Speaker 3: Goliath situation. If anything, it's one mouse versus another mouse.

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Speaker 3: To be very clear, the later versions of Mickey Mouse

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Speaker 3: that we're released after nineteen twenty eight are still tightly

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Speaker 3: controlled by the Disney Corporation. With that being said, we

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Speaker 3: can't wait to see what happens next. We're going to

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Speaker 3: keep an eye on this, and we would love your

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Speaker 3: opinion too. We've got a lot of fellow conspiracy realists

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Speaker 3: who are in the field of art, in the field

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Speaker 3: of creative expression of music and of litigation. So let

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Speaker 3: us know directly, folks, we can't wait to hear from you.

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Speaker 3: We're going to pause for a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back with more strange.

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Speaker 4: News, and we're back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, I've got mouse on the brain. That's gonna be

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Speaker 4: a fun one to follow, especially as we see people

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Speaker 4: test it right testing it with their parodies and memes.

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Speaker 4: The explosion of memes has already been delightful thing to behold.

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Speaker 4: Apparently they've been just really quickly. The steamboat Willie is

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Speaker 4: still in the blacklist. I guess whatever algorithm for YouTube

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Speaker 4: because like a YouTube show that I was watching, the

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Speaker 4: covers it said they tried it or they had read

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Speaker 4: somebody had tried it and they still got got knocked

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Speaker 4: for it.

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Speaker 3: So if I saw a video as well where somebody

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Speaker 3: did the whistle and got a CND, but those are

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Speaker 3: often automated.

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Speaker 4: They got to update the system or whatever.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, really quickly, before we move on, I was

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Speaker 2: playing this game Cuphead with my son and my mother

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Speaker 2: early super hard, very cool looking literally today, and she

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Speaker 2: she mentioned, why does that look so familiar? When we

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Speaker 2: were fighting one of the bosses in the game, and

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Speaker 2: then she began recalling the nineteen thirties, like early nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirties cartoons that were the inspirations for a lot of

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Speaker 2: this game, the Cupheads animation and characters.

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Speaker 4: Tune Heads from the ink Well type stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she matched up like everyone, and it was specific

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Speaker 2: like motions that some of the characters were doing. She's like, wait,

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Speaker 2: I I know that she was having basically flashbacks from

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Speaker 2: her childhood and it was very wiggly emotions, very.

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Speaker 3: Like whoo, that's very powerful, right the flower that yeah,

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Speaker 3: flower that kind of like hot and it doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Hands down in a very specific way.

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Speaker 6: In the medical Carrot, you know, yeah, chet out, Saint

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Speaker 6: James Infirmary, check out all of the early twenties and

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Speaker 6: thirties cartoons before you know, big censorship stepped in.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's like character named Bimbo that she like,

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Speaker 2: Tilver reminds me of Bimbo.

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Speaker 3: We got anyway, this is all way before Airbnb, But

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Speaker 3: I imagine you're allowed to watch some of these cartoons there.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, one would hope you can. Yeah. Also, we

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Speaker 4: haven't really talked about this, but there is apparently a

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Speaker 4: conspiracy afoot that a lot of airbnbs have cameras in them,

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Speaker 4: and they're watching you the whole time and potentially even

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Speaker 4: streaming you in places you know, I mean one would

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Speaker 4: hope not, but there is I did find that you'll

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Speaker 4: appreciate this, Ben. There is a hotel I want to say,

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Speaker 4: either in Japan or in South Korea where it's got

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Speaker 4: absurdly low cost per night if you agree to be

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Speaker 4: streamed the entire time you were there, and the only

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Speaker 4: room that is off limits for streaming is the literal toilet.

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Speaker 4: So there's that.

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Speaker 5: We're not talking about that, right, We're not talking about that.

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Speaker 4: Kind of airbnb scam, though I don't doubt that that's

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Speaker 4: the case of the benefit. It was you that kind

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Speaker 4: of woke me from my complacency and that, yeah, there

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Speaker 4: probably are cameras. They're either at the very least emotion

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Speaker 4: sensitive to make sure you're not like vandalizing or stealing

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Speaker 4: their stuff. But it could be up to way worse

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Speaker 4: shenanigans than that. But today we were talking about one

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Speaker 4: particularly egregious case of Airbnb fraud perpetrated by a gentleman

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Speaker 4: by the name of Shrey Goel, who is being charged

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Speaker 4: for running a Airbnb scam across one hundred properties that

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Speaker 4: he owned in the United States, racking up profits of

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Speaker 4: in the neighborhood of eight point five million dollars. If

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Speaker 4: anyone has seen the frankly incredible movie Barbarian that came out,

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Speaker 4: I believe it was last year, really really cool movie.

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Speaker 4: The sort of I guess, what's the word, the kind

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Speaker 4: of initiating action I guess of the film has to

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Speaker 4: do with an airbnb that is double booked. One of

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Speaker 4: the main characters shows up at the airbnb, there's already

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Speaker 4: someone in there. It's in a really rough neighborhood. They

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Speaker 4: come to an agreement and they agree to kind of

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Speaker 4: bunk there together, and you kind of think the inciting incident,

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Speaker 4: that's the word I'm looking for. You kind of think

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Speaker 4: this is going to be what the movie's about, but

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Speaker 4: it actually ends up being about something completely different. But

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Speaker 4: it did get me thinking, like, I wonder how often

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Speaker 4: this happens. You know, people are double booked in an airbnb. Well,

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Speaker 4: apparently that is what Shrey Goell, who is a self

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Speaker 4: described visionary real estate tycoon I guess, or a visionary

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Speaker 4: in real estate. This is exactly what this person was

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Speaker 4: banking on a that people would think it was much

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Speaker 4: more common than it actually was, and b that they

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Speaker 4: wouldn't necessarily report it. Apparently he's being indicted, by the way.

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Speaker 4: On December twenty eighth, Goel was indicted on wirefraud, aggravated

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Speaker 4: identity theft, and criminal forfeiture by a grand jury and

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Speaker 4: the Central Dish of California. Accused of running this scam

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Speaker 4: since twenty eighteen, and the root of the grift is

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Speaker 4: that he would intentionally double book guests at these you know,

436
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 4: more than one hundred properties that he operates across the country,

437
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 4: creating various excuses for why they were double booked, canceling

438
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 4: reservations of the last minute, shifting people to other less desirable,

439
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 4: desirable properties because as you know, a lot of times

440
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: the last minute, you're gonna take whatever you can get.

441
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 4: You know, you've made arrangements to have a place to stay,

442
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 4: or much like in Barbarian, you got nowhere else to go.

443
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 4: Maybe there's a convention in town. Your chances are you're

444
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 4: not gonna die on that hill. And you might even

445
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 4: not look askance at the situation if it doesn't if

446
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 4: it's only happened to you once you know, and you're

447
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 4: not identifying it as a pattern, you know, because I

448
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 4: don't know about you guys, but I don't think I've

449
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 4: ever rented an Airbnb from the same per sin more

450
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 4: than once, except in the case of like a cabin

451
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 4: in the mountains where there was a particularly neat one

452
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 4: that I have bookmarked, you know.

453
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 3: I have primarily because a known entity is going to

454
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 3: be more predictable, better the devil one knows or the

455
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: landlord one knows. And and also shout out to Zach Cregor.

456
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 3: You know, Why does Know? Was a fantastic sketch comedy.

457
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: And Zach Gregor is really in my opinion, he's the

458
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 3: director and writer of Barbaria, and he really came into

459
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: his own here. He I think he clearly got some

460
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: uh is writing from a place of first hand experience,

461
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 3: a bit with with the idea of airbnbs.

462
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 4: Well yeah, and he's also another great example of how

463
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 4: comedy and horror are kind of kindred spirits.

464
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 3: And when he said there's the difference between horror and

465
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: comedy is the music you nick.

466
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 4: Could well, yeah, I disagree.

467
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 5: So Joe Goel Joel, It's g o e L. He

468
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 5: would do all kinds of clever little things, set up

469
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 5: separate listings for the same properties at different prices, using

470
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 5: different photographs, and then he'd cancel the lower priced booking,

471
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 5: making some excuse that.

472
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 4: There was flooding or there was some kind of issue

473
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 4: with the electrical or the plumbing or whatever it might be.

474
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 4: And then again, like I said before, would offer to

475
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 4: switch them to another property. Often, and this is according

476
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 4: to a really great article in Vice by Rashawn Abraham,

477
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 4: often the properties that he would switch them to would

478
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 4: be in various states of disrepair. You know, have kind

479
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 4: of decaying furniture, cobwebs, sounds like some real gray gardens

480
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 4: type stuff. Very interesting, but again you're kind of an

481
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 4: over abearl. But that's at that point and you're kind

482
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 4: of gonna take what you can get. But you know,

483
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 4: if anyone's messed around much with Airbnb, will be places

484
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 4: with cute names like Alex and Britney's Honeymoon Bungalow, you know,

485
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 4: things like that the egg and honey Helm one hundred percent,

486
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 4: and the idea being is to sell it as like

487
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 4: this is a lived in, you know, home full of love,

488
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 4: you know, and uh, it's it's you're literally staying in

489
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 4: somebody's home. As we often find if we've, if we

490
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 4: or you have have done much airbnbing, is.

491
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 5: That people will exclusively.

492
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 4: Airbnb certain properties and fill them up with like remember

493
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 4: those the model homes and arrested development. They're filled with

494
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 4: I think the joke who they were called like home

495
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 4: fill or something like that, where it was just like

496
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 4: kind of set decorating stuff like live, laugh, love kind

497
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 4: of things you get. You know, some of them are

498
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 4: like that man, some like you've never lived in this place.

499
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 4: Super hosts.

500
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 3: It's the stock images, you know, that's the landscapes, uh,

501
00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 3: the ornamental fake fruit and plants and so on. There's

502
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: also a big podcast. I don't want Olive Garden to

503
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 3: sue us, but the sentiment is there. Airbnb's value proposition

504
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 3: was something like when you're here, your family right, you're

505
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 3: at home. And the issue there is just set up

506
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: real quick. Like. The issue is that people are being

507
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: increasingly built, swindled, bamboozled in terms of surveillance, in terms

508
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 3: of what is promised versus what is delivered, and in

509
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: terms of what is expected from them as tenants. And

510
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 3: I know we're going to get to it. But Noel,

511
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 3: isn't this the result of a twenty nineteen like in

512
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: depth investigation on this one guy.

513
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 4: Precisely, and to your point, Ben, You're absolutely right, Like,

514
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 4: I've certainly rented an Airbnb that I felt underdelivered on

515
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 4: the promise of the description and the pictures, but it

516
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 4: wasn't like gross, and it was a place to sleep

517
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 4: and I was able to get in, so I wasn't

518
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 4: gonna make a fuss.

519
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 5: There's nothing that was fine.

520
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 4: I've literally never had what I would consider like a

521
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 4: hellish or like, you know, negative Airbnb experience, and even

522
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 4: if I did find a place to be lacking, I

523
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 4: would certainly never leave a bad review. I'm just not

524
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 4: that kind of person, and I know there are people

525
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 4: that are that kind of person. But my point is,

526
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 4: I think Joel is coasting on that expectation that people

527
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 4: who are now kind of used to somewhat of a

528
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 4: lowered expectation concerning these airbnb experiences, because the value is

529
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 4: the fact that you can get one at all, and

530
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 4: that they're cheaper than a hotel, and that they're more

531
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 4: accessible than a hotel, and in a lot of ways

532
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 4: it's a better experience because you've got your own place

533
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 4: to park, you don't have to worry about. I don't know,

534
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 4: results may vary, but I do find that a lot

535
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 4: of times depending on the city, and Airbnb is a

536
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 4: great alternative to a hotel. And so I'm not gonna complain,

537
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 4: but absolutely right, Ben, There was an in depth investigation

538
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 4: by Ali Kanti in twenty nineteen that, yeah, like exposed this.

539
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 4: I accidentally uncovered a nationwide scam on Airbnb for the

540
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 4: Vice Money section. While searching for the person who grifted

541
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 4: me in Chicago, I discovered just how easy it is

542
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 4: for users of the short term.

543
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 5: Rental platform to get exploited.

544
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 4: So that's its own piece to definitely dig into, and

545
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 4: I highly recommend that you can find that online as well.

546
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,239
Speaker 4: But yeah, it led to exactly this. This person is

547
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 4: in big trouble. And just to give you a little

548
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 4: bit more of a background on the investigative piece, Ali

549
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 4: CONTI had been a victim of this double booking scam

550
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 4: at one of this guy's properties in Chicago, got that

551
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 4: suspicious last minute cancellation, but then was contacted by the FBI.

552
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 4: Eventually after publishing this experience hadn't really gotten to the

553
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 4: bottom of it, per se, but published the article that

554
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 4: they identified as the pattern, and then we're like, we

555
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 4: want to find out more mere days after the article

556
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 4: was published. So this, yeah, I fit in with a

557
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 4: much larger pattern of fraud with Airbnb. According to another report, Airbnb,

558
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 4: Rising rent and the Housing Crisis in Los Angeles from

559
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 4: twenty fifteen that sort of pointed out some of these

560
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 4: problems they're sort of becoming, I guess, endemic of this

561
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 4: system of temporary rentals.

562
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 3: There's another thing if we want to be proactive and

563
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 3: prepared for this. Obviously we're not accusing everybody who runs

564
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 3: an Airbnb of doing these sorts of grifts, but there

565
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 3: are a couple of things you can do to protect yourselves.

566
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: Treat it like a rental car. Take photos when you

567
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: get there. That's going to be huge because people have

568
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 3: been both in the world of rental cars and in

569
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: the world of hiring houses and rooms, people have been

570
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: accused of damage that is not their responsibility. I would

571
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 3: say also, the reviews are important, but as we see

572
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: in this case, the reviews can be spoofed by dummy accounts.

573
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 3: I'm not an agent a big hotel promise you that,

574
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 3: but I do think it is very very important for

575
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 3: us to realize that a lot of times people are

576
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 3: going to leverage your trust, or they're going to leverage

577
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 3: your expectations that everybody else will be a good faith actor,

578
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 3: and that's simply not the case. The real big problem

579
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 3: I would argue with airbnbs is that they're absolutely screwing

580
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 3: out first time home buyers across the United States.

581
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 4: Now, that's a really important thing to bring up. Ben.

582
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 4: I know it's not related, but I feel like those

583
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 4: I mean, well, especially the pattern, you know, it is related,

584
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 4: and it's like a grift within a grift because as

585
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 4: we know, you know, people are maybe more likely to

586
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 4: hold on to properties if they have a way of

587
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 4: just squeezing every last dime out of them, you know,

588
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 4: and this is a good way of doing that. There

589
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 4: are some districts that it has been outlawed entirely because

590
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 4: it is technically running. It's like, what's the word sub leasing?

591
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 4: I think subleasing is technically against the law in some places.

592
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 4: You know, you're supposed to have a contract, you're supposed

593
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 4: to have you know, signed documents with the tenant, and

594
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 4: they're supposed to have certain rights. But by doing this,

595
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 4: you're kind of waiving those rights. In a lot of ways,

596
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 4: you really don't have any rights. All the rights lie

597
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 4: with the person that's making the money and that has

598
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 4: their finger on all the decisions.

599
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: And in the interest of full representation, of course, yes,

600
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: we do want to give some space to Goelle, who

601
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: talked a little bit about this on x formerly known

602
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 3: as Twitter, just a few days ago. Right, he came

603
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 3: out and publicly stated something that sort of referred to this.

604
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's kind of funny because when you look the

605
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 4: way it's cited in this Vice article, it's really easy

606
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 4: to misread his name as goal So it looks like

607
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 4: it says goal posted to X, and there's nothing that

608
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 4: This is a great example of moving goal posts. Is

609
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 4: what this whole rental scam kind of Airbnb hole inability

610
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 4: for regular people to buy a home is. It is

611
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 4: that American dream goalpost just moving around, you know, to

612
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 4: the point where you'll never be able to make a

613
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 4: touchdown anyway. So Goel posted to X on December thirty.

614
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 4: That's from the Vice article. Yesterday, it was an incredibly

615
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 4: tough day for me. Well, I can't speak publicly about

616
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 4: the circumstances I was heading to my condo feeling sorry

617
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 4: for myself. He then says that after being awake for

618
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 4: a relentless forty eight hours, he witnessed the aftermath of

619
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 4: someone having jumped to their death. He then offers his

620
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 4: support to my friends, family, and even the Twitter trolls.

621
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 4: If you need someone to talk to, I'm here. Life

622
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 4: can be tough, but it often brings on a expected

623
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 4: moments of hope and clarity.

624
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 2: Well, you know we we can talk to him right now.

625
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 2: Did you see on his website that shares his name.

626
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: You can make an appointment. You can schedule an appointment

627
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 2: appointment with this guy at any time, and he's open.

628
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: His calendar is open.

629
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 3: I think, what if if the pattern holds true, then

630
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: what what will occur is, uh, you will contact him,

631
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 3: and then that listing will change and there will be

632
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 3: someone who's named like Gray Shoals some circuit Gray Showell

633
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 3: who will talk with you. But the subsidence of that

634
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 3: tweet was this person's death put my problems into perspective,

635
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 3: which is a super narcissistic way to talk about someone dying.

636
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 4: Well, and there's those problems, by the way that he's referencing,

637
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 4: are like, you know, if you go to his social

638
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 4: media profile, he uh is pretty open about how his

639
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 4: His bio said as that he dreamed at a young

640
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 4: age of being a pirate searching for treasure, and that

641
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 4: it implies that his real estate empire took a bit

642
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 4: of a dive during the pandemic, that he was trying

643
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 4: to kind of claw his way back into prominence by

644
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 4: dipping his toes into AI and by quote building a

645
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 4: company that aimed to revolutionize memoir sharing. So let's go

646
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 4: and exploit people's life rights too while we're at it

647
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 4: about that anyway.

648
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 5: Doesn't seem like the best of dudes.

649
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 4: Don't wish ill on anybody, but I'm glad that this

650
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 4: that somebody got to the bottom of this, because you know,

651
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 4: like I said, this is the kind of grift you

652
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: wouldn't hit the same person with twice. If this happened

653
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 4: to me once, I wouldn't think anything of it. I

654
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 4: don't think I would have gone as far as our

655
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 4: intrepid vice you know, investigative reporter and even looked much

656
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 4: further into I would have just chalked it up as

657
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 4: you know, a bad experience nestled within a sea of

658
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 4: media Oker experiences and I would have moved on, but

659
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 4: some people don't move on, and that's good. We need

660
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 4: those people. What do you say we take a quick break,

661
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 4: hear a word from our sponsor, and then come back

662
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 4: with one more piece of strange news.

663
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: All right, and we've returned, and we are going to

664
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: tell a tale of two secret spacecraft. And this is

665
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: something that we talked about not that long ago. In

666
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: November of twenty twenty two, we discussed this thing called

667
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: the X thirty seven. B. Guys, Oh, I'm so excited

668
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: that this is in our world again. We've been following

669
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 2: it since really, I think it was its maiden voyage

670
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: up into space back in twenty ten, April twenty ten.

671
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 5: When a sweet, sweet little plain right, we had assessed.

672
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 2: That's when we were we were making videos for iTunes

673
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: video back in the day. And we've been we've been

674
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 2: watching this thing because even before that, in nineteen ninety nine,

675
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: it was a project that was announced as a I

676
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: guess a collab between NASA and Boeing to create a

677
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: space plane. They called it like an experimental space plane. Yeah,

678
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: that's what they called it back then. And then we

679
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: watched as DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, took

680
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 2: it over in like two thousand and four, and we're

681
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 2: just like, what's gonna happen with this thing? What's happening now?

682
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: Where is it? And you know, when DARPA takes a

683
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: hold of a project, it's so funny because often on

684
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: their website they'll put a big picture of the project

685
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 2: they're working on, or a representative picture of that project,

686
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: and it'll give you some information about it, like not

687
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 2: a ton what would you say, guys, Like a paragraph

688
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: or a couple bullet points, a blurb, you know, Yeah,

689
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 2: and it lets you know that it exists and it's happening.

690
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 2: But we will, as the public, will never know what

691
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 2: the advancements are at the Advanced Research Projects Agency.

692
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be like a series of bullet points

693
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 3: with proposed objectives, which are going to be a rewording

694
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 3: of the request for proposals exactly.

695
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: So that happens in two thousand and four. Then in

696
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 2: two thousand and six, the Air Force gets a hold

697
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: of this thing, or it looks at the X thirty

698
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: seven A and the Air Force decides, Hey, we're going

699
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: to make our own version of this thing, except you know,

700
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 2: we're aiming for the stars and we're gonna slap a

701
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: B on that thing. Which what did we say? The

702
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: X thirty seven B stands for?

703
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 3: Oh, there's so many directions we could go with this,

704
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 3: you know, I mean clearly that the lame answer is boeing.

705
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 3: But our collective theories are probably much more interesting.

706
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 4: Right, boy, Baller, Matt, you said about Chigobawa, I'm not

707
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 4: gonna lie. You got you gotta own it. Own it, Matt, about.

708
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: Chiobawa, I think it just stands for the second iteration.

709
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 5: Ah, it's so dull, but it also makes sense.

710
00:41:59,320 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 4: I know, right.

711
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: But as they developed it two thousand and six, launches

712
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 2: for the first time in twenty ten. The reason why

713
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: it's very interesting to us still on the show is

714
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 2: that it is a secretive, very very secretive, highly classified

715
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: autonomous space plane or spacecraft I guess. And when it

716
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: first launched in twenty ten, it was up in the

717
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: air for two hundred and twenty four days. Then the

718
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 2: next time it launched in twenty eleven, it was up

719
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: there for four hundred and sixty eight days, Then the

720
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 2: next time six hundred and seventy four days, then seven

721
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: hundred and eighteen days, then seven hundred and eighty days,

722
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 2: and the last time that we talked about it, it

723
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 2: had been up in space in low Earth orbit for

724
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: nine hundred and eight days without returning to Earth, which

725
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 2: is just insane. That's such a long time to have

726
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: this autonomous spacecraft just flying around in orbit doing who

727
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: knows what for classified reasons. And it's in the news

728
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: again because on December twenty eighth it went up on

729
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 2: its seventh official old mission or I guess officially acknowledged mission,

730
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: and it's going to be up there for an undisclosed

731
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: number of days. If you think about like nine hundred

732
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 2: and eight days, that's that's like well over two years,

733
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: two and a half years. This time, it could be

734
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: up there for three years, so we won't see it

735
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 2: until twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven. Who knows what

736
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: it's doing. Who knows what it took with it, because

737
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: remember last time we talked about it, the X thirty

738
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 2: seven B has a cargo load, a payload of around

739
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: the size of a Toyota Tacoma truck, right, so like

740
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: the thing of a bed of a truck. It can

741
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 2: carry things up there like small satellites, maybe even smaller

742
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 2: versions of itself. How crazy would that be? And it's

743
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 2: just going to be doing its thing and we won't

744
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: know what's happening. But there are people on the ground

745
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 2: who are not part of you know, space force, which

746
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: is the controlling body of this machine now, or the

747
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: air or DARPA or any of these. They are just citizens,

748
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 2: sometimes scientists, sometimes enthusiasts of the skies. They are tracking

749
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 2: these things, like tracking the X thirty seven B and

750
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 2: tracking the shen Long which is China's answer essentially to

751
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 2: the X thirty seven B Secret of spacecraft, which, guys,

752
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: let me just throw it to you. What have you

753
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,959
Speaker 2: heard in the news recently about China's version shen Long?

754
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's so bad that another country is

755
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 3: doing the same thing as us.

756
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yes, I guess that is like the gist

757
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 2: of a lot of the reporting.

758
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 3: I think that's there is some hypocrisy too.

759
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 4: I'm personally enraged. Yeah.

760
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 3: Well, Matt, do you want to do you want to

761
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 3: let everybody know what shen long translates to in English?

762
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: Ah? Yes, if shen Long was to X thirty seven

763
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 2: B and the B stood for badass, which is how

764
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 2: it should be. Shen Long literally translates to divine dragon,

765
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 2: which is just like oh better, or yeah, it could

766
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 2: be god dragon. Yeah, I've always seen divine for some

767
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: reason in reporting I've looked at But this thing is

768
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: on its third mission, right, It's gone up three or

769
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 2: two times previously. Now it's on its third mission and

770
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 2: it launched on December fourteenth, just you know, fourteen days

771
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 2: prior to the X thirty seven BE going up there.

772
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: And get this, the X thirty seven B was supposed

773
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 2: to go up in early December, but got delayed due

774
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: to some technical problems and weather issues. So theoretically shen

775
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: Long was going to be launched almost to match X

776
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: like literally to match X thirty seven be's launch, right.

777
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it isn't. I think shen Long first went

778
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,439
Speaker 3: public in seven, but I don't it hadn't launched by them,

779
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 3: But that's when the public found out about it.

780
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 2: That's when the agencies there in China disclosed that they

781
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: were working on a project, kind of the same way

782
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 2: that in nineteen ninety nine when Boeing and NASA, Hey

783
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 2: we've got this secret thing that we're working on.

784
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 3: But I guess SCNP selth China Morning Post.

785
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 4: I think probably, I guess it never occurred to me, guys.

786
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 4: But in reference to this article, I saw a link

787
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 4: to another article from the Space Desk. I guess of

788
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 4: the Guardian quoting in a US official saying that we

789
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 4: are definitely in a space race with China, and there

790
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 4: are apparently plenty of reports indicating that China. Well, actually

791
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 4: it was a former astronaut in Florida Senator Bill Nelson

792
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 4: who is claiming that China is trying to go after

793
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 4: the Moon and some of its resource rich areas. So

794
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 4: make no mistake, says Nelson. We are in a space race.

795
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: Yes, but with regards to these two specific craft, we

796
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,240
Speaker 2: are not talking about the Moon in any former measure,

797
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 2: which is just an important distinction because I think some

798
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: people often get the you know, mixed up. Right, We

799
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: are talking about low Earth orbit. Every time the X

800
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 2: thirty seven B has gone up into the sky or

801
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: into space, I guess let's call it really just high

802
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: up in the atmosphere.

803
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 3: Let's call it Bezos space.

804
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, when it's in Bezos space. Every time it's launched,

805
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 2: it's been in Bezos space. Low Earth orbit and the

806
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: Shenlong same thing low Earth orbit when it's flying around,

807
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 2: except for this time. The X thirty seven B was

808
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 2: launched on a Falcon Is it a nine Falcon nine rocket?

809
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 2: It's a Falcon heavy rocket that is a part of

810
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: Elon Musk's thing, and it went it can well, let's

811
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: put it this way. It can potentially reach geosynchronous orbit,

812
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 2: which is higher up, more miles outward than low Earth orbit.

813
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 2: And according to official sources, they won't say, yeah, man,

814
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 2: X thirty seven B is going way up this time

815
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 2: and it's gonna test stuff out there, but they'll say

816
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 2: things like I have a quote here from a Guardian article.

817
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,760
Speaker 2: This is what the Pentagon, via the Air Force Rapid

818
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: cap Abilities Office said, UH number Mission number seven will

819
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: involve tests of quote new orbital regimes experimenting with future

820
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: space domain awareness technologies.

821
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 4: Dude, have you guys seen the BlackBerry movie about it yet?

822
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 2: I want to see that.

823
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 4: There's a really interesting thing that happens in it where

824
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 4: BlackBerry was king and then all of a sudden, iPhone

825
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 4: came out and immediately they had this prototy that they were,

826
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 4: you know, pitching to investors, and they just slapped a

827
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 4: screen on it as quickly as they freaking could you know,

828
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 4: because so they could say, see, see we're doing the

829
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 4: thing that they're doing too. That's this reeks of that

830
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 4: kind of desperation a little bit, doesn't it.

831
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 5: Do you know what you're getting at?

832
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit. But also who knows there could

833
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 2: be really important interesting stuff going on in there, besides

834
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 2: figuring out how to kill satellites more efficiently, which we

835
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: or capture right just grab them up. I mean, I

836
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know. Just to that same Guardian

837
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 2: article on less cite it here. The Guardian on December

838
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: twenty eighth published this article with this title US Military's

839
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 2: X thirty seven B robot space plane blasts off on

840
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 2: secret mission aboard SpaceX rocket. So that's there so you

841
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: can find it. And within that article there is a

842
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: quote from the Space Force General B. Chance Saltsman.

843
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 3: What does the B stand for, Matt Badass?

844
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 2: It stands for broccoli. I don't know why, but it does,

845
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 2: James Bond Fortune. It goes back to what you're saying, Nol.

846
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: His quote is quote, it's no surprise that the Chinese

847
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 2: are extremely interested in our space plane. We are extremely

848
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 2: interested in theirs. These are two of the most watched

849
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 2: objects in orbit. While they're in orbit. It's probably no

850
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 2: coincidence that they're trying to match us in timing and

851
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: sequence of this.

852
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 3: Oh we're probably yeah, what a couinkydink. There's also you know,

853
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 3: I'm really glad you point this part out, Matt, because

854
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 3: to one of the questions you asked that, I think

855
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 3: you're getting at the way this has been reported in

856
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 3: the West, in the global West, and the anglosphere in particular,

857
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 3: it does have traces of sinophobia. Like it is a

858
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 3: lot of the news breathlessly reports perceived capabilities of shed

859
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 3: long as though they are not the same capabilities the

860
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 3: X thirty seven B is knowingly working toward. I mean,

861
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 3: think about think about the satellite shooting that happened a

862
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: few years ago. I don't talking about it as though

863
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 3: their celebrities getting gunned down, but the US shot down

864
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: a satellite and then China did so for like safety.

865
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 3: But they were both sending messages to one another. And

866
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 3: the idea of a space race is true, but perhaps

867
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 3: it is more accurate to call it a space Olympics.

868
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 3: There are many different events going on right. There are

869
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: many different medals to be won and races to be run.

870
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 2: Sure, and as we said before, these objects are being watched,

871
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 2: not just you know, as that general was stating, you know,

872
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 2: the countries are watching them. There are individual human beings

873
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 2: who watch them. And in the case of shen Long,

874
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: somebody who's been keeping track of it has been noticing

875
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 2: that the shen Long released six quote mystery objects. They

876
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 2: released them, right, So imagine seeing a UFO and now

877
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 2: instead of just one UFO, there's seven UFOs flying around

878
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: or lights that you're seeing. That's kind of the experience,

879
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: except imagine how like powerful telescopes and or whatever other

880
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: tracking you know, radar tracking, whatever they've got.

881
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 3: Maybe something with an EMP device that just happens to

882
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 3: be on a dumb orbit toward a satellite, another satellite,

883
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 3: and they could just pop a fart real quick, you know.

884
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 2: Maybe, but again, maybe there's technology that's being tested that's

885
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 2: similar to the stuff we've been reading about with the

886
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 2: wingman AI planes. Remember we were just learning about that

887
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: where jet fighters would would be able to have a

888
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,879
Speaker 2: squadron of smaller AI driven planes that they would fly with,

889
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 2: and those planes would function as basically eyes in the

890
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 2: sky as trackers and they'd have sensor technology on them

891
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 2: basically to give more awareness to that pilot. Maybe there's

892
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: something like that, but in this case, it's a robotic

893
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 2: space plane with other robots.

894
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 4: I don't know.

895
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, possibly, like like in Transformers and Decepticons. I think

896
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,919
Speaker 3: it's a Decepticon, the guy who transforms into a into

897
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 3: an old school boombox, but he's got a little robot

898
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 3: inside of him that transforms into an old school cassette

899
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 3: tape and Hay launches out. It's like it's possibly six

900
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 3: of those. It really depends upon how sophisticated their steering

901
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:57,320
Speaker 3: capabilities are. If they have those, is it purely hard

902
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 3: science research? You know, the way that the US sells

903
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: this to the US populace. I don't know. I'm really

904
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 3: glad you brought up our previous episode. What do we

905
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 3: call it? Something like space Ghost the Return of X

906
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 3: thirty seven B Like, we might need to revisit this

907
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 3: because something is happening and there's a lot of there's

908
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff at stake.

909
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: I think, oh, there most certainly is that.

910
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

911
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: Space Ghost we put out in December of twenty twenty two,

912
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 2: and we talked about it in November, I think of

913
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two in our Strange News. So you can

914
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: find both of those episodes right now. If you want

915
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 2: to learn more about this stuff, if you want to

916
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: learn more about Shen Long and these mysterious objects being

917
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: emitted from it, you can find reporting on it all

918
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 2: over the place. I would recommend space dot com as

919
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 2: your first stop. They put an article out on December eighteenth,

920
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, titled China's space plane apparently deployed six

921
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 2: mysterious wingmen in orbit, and the subtitle is some of

922
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 2: the objects appear to be transmitting signoles?

923
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 3: What what's he building in there? Shout out Tom Waits

924
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 3: if it's okay. I'd also like to mention Popular Mechanics

925
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:09,879
Speaker 3: has uh.

926
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 2: I do not want you to mention that, Ben because

927
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 2: they won't let me read their stuff.

928
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 4: And let's like listenday and Popular.

929
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 3: Popular Mechanics has a a for now a great comp

930
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 3: contrast called Battle the Space Planes. How America's X thirty

931
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 3: seven B stacks up against China's shed and Long.

932
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 2: Well, that sounds good. I wish I could read it,

933
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:38,479
Speaker 2: too bad? Sorry, Popular Mechanics. That's about it for right now.

934
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 2: There's a ton of reporting on this going out there,

935
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 2: but most of it is surface level. The stuff that

936
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 2: you'll find on sheen Long often is not English language.

937
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 2: At least the best information that I could find is

938
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 2: not English language. So use the the old translators if

939
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 2: you can, if you want to really dive deep into this.

940
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 2: All right, I guess that concludes this segment and.

941
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 4: This episode, right, but not the show.

942
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 3: No, you can't wait to hear from you, folks. Are

943
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 3: you taking Disney to court? Are you going to do

944
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 3: Law and Order steamboat style? What is your strange Airbnb experience?

945
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 3: What do you think about airbnb in general? And what

946
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 3: are the US and China doing up there in space?

947
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 3: We want to hear from you, folks. Actually, let me

948
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 3: say this because we don't say it often enough. Most importantly,

949
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,240
Speaker 3: we love hearing new ideas. We love hearing new stories

950
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 3: that you think your fellow conspiracy realists should be aware of.

951
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 3: We try to be easy to find online while we're

952
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 3: working on our own secret spacecraft.

953
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 4: That's right. You can find us at the handle Conspiracy

954
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 4: Stuff on x FKA, Twitter, YouTube, and also Facebook. You

955
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 4: can also find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff Show

956
00:55:58,040 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 4: on Instagram and TikTok.

957
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 2: Hey do you like to call people? Call us one

958
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 2: eight three three st d wytk. It's that simple. Put

959
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 2: it in your phone, give us a call. It's three

960
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,319
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961
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 2: yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we

962
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 2: can use your name.

963
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:15,879
Speaker 4: And message on the air.

964
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,640
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965
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 2: huge stories, what else, attachments, why not instead send us

966
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 2: a good old fashioned email.

967
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

968
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

969
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:53,120
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970
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,439
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.