WEBVTT - Road to the Daily Wire: Neoliberalism and the Church

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Day It Happened Here, a podcast about I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, this is coming out like Tuesday, right, maybe Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 2>You probably know what this podcast is about. If you don't,

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<v Speaker 2>it's about things falling apart putting it back together again.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm your host Mia Wong.

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<v Speaker 3>With me is James Hi Mayh and I'm very excited

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<v Speaker 3>to to lend some stuff. I'm sure to be great.

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing, well, okay, the good news that the first guy

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about died. That's that's the only good news. Great, great,

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<v Speaker 2>more good news. But we're doing some episodes about the

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<v Speaker 2>Daily Wire. You're gonna get a lot more actual stuff

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<v Speaker 2>about the Daily Wire in the next two episodes. This

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<v Speaker 2>is the this is the preliminary background information episode. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, for people who aren't familiar with the Daily Wire,

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<v Speaker 2>the Daily Wire is a very large and very powerful

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<v Speaker 2>right wing media empire. You know, Ben Shapiro's people, Matt

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<v Speaker 2>Walsh is there, and they are They've become increasingly powerful

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<v Speaker 2>because of their ability to drive the actions and sort

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<v Speaker 2>of like not even really mid level, like high mid

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<v Speaker 2>high level like Republican officials, particularly at a state level,

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<v Speaker 2>towards you know, horrific anti trans policies stuff like that. Yep,

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<v Speaker 2>they've had this incredible divorced dad power of those two guys.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it's like a yeah, it's like a Pokemon situation,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like it just it's inside, it's like shaken ball,

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<v Speaker 2>but sometimes they let it out and control their Republican

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<v Speaker 2>body with it. Yeah, and so okay, you know. But

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<v Speaker 2>in order to really sort of understand who these people

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<v Speaker 2>are and why they're able to sort of be like this,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to talk about the ways that this is new,

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<v Speaker 2>because you know, there's always been of writing, like Christian

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<v Speaker 2>media figures who do terrible stuff, but the way the

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<v Speaker 2>daily wire works is different than this stuff has worked

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<v Speaker 2>in the past. And in order to understand what is

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<v Speaker 2>different about this than these sort of like previous eras

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<v Speaker 2>of like Christian antiqueer violence, we need to talk about neoliberalism.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is this is not the normal starting place.

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<v Speaker 2>You're talking about the religious right, but if you want

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<v Speaker 2>to actually understand what's happening right now, you have to

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<v Speaker 2>go back to the origin and structure of neoliberalism so

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<v Speaker 2>you can understand how it's shaped. Right when Christian organizing

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<v Speaker 2>the last about fifty years. I want to start this

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<v Speaker 2>by talking about a guy who is not normally considered

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<v Speaker 2>part of the Christian right at all. In fact, he's

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<v Speaker 2>not even an American and his greatest influence is on

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<v Speaker 2>his home country of Germany. The man I'm talking I

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<v Speaker 2>want to talk about is Wilhelm rope Key. I've mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>him on this show before, but that was several years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Now he is not a very well known figure, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's not good because he is one of the smartest

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<v Speaker 2>and one of the most dangerous neoliberals. So in order

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<v Speaker 2>to really get a sense of who rope Key is,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to talk about the beginnings of neoliberalism.

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<v Speaker 3>So we need to.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk about Hyak and his sort of attempt to recruit

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of new liberals to oppose. While mostly to

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<v Speaker 2>oppost communism, it later becomes about also opposing fascism. But

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<v Speaker 2>the problem that Hyak has is that so in the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteenth this is happening in the nineteen twenties and really

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteen thirties. The problem is that the people who

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<v Speaker 2>Hayak have been trying to recruit from Germany a dream

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<v Speaker 2>the thirties all joined the Nazi Party. So in Many

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<v Speaker 2>such cases. Yeah, it's a real issue for them.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, once again the Libs have let us down. Shocked.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So, you know, in the in the nineteen forties

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<v Speaker 2>after the war, when Hyak is trying to do this again,

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<v Speaker 2>he turns to William rope Key instead of the original

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<v Speaker 2>guys who've been Nazis because Ropeke had been out of

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<v Speaker 2>the country for the whole Nazi things, so he kind

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<v Speaker 2>of had skipped out on it.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, smart move on his front.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know this this gets him an invite

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<v Speaker 2>to like Montpellier, and so the whole sort of the

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<v Speaker 2>origins of neoliberalism and rope Key is he's one of

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<v Speaker 2>the architects of what's called ordoliberalism. So the Order Liberals

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<v Speaker 2>are one of the factions of you know, they're one

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<v Speaker 2>of the factions of neoliberalism. What's interesting about the way

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna talk a bit about what they believe. But

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<v Speaker 2>what's interesting about the Order Liberals is that they're not

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<v Speaker 2>really economists. I mean, some of them are, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of sociologists. And this means that the way

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<v Speaker 2>that they think about the world is very different than

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<v Speaker 2>the way that like Hayek or you know, like a

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<v Speaker 2>like von Mises or like all the you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>sort of like mainline like guys who are economists in

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<v Speaker 2>the neoliberal movement think the order. Liberal roles believe that

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<v Speaker 2>there is a natural capitalist hierarchy in a society that

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<v Speaker 2>produces stability. But they also understand that capitalism in general

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<v Speaker 2>and neoliberalism, like specifically the thing they're trying to bring about,

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<v Speaker 2>adamizes people. You know, it destroys social bonds, It tears

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<v Speaker 2>the fabric of communities apart, and it destroys the notion

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<v Speaker 2>of any collective self identification, replacing them with sort of

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<v Speaker 2>market exchange and empty consumer symbols masquerading as identity. You

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<v Speaker 2>know thing for example, the rise of stand culture or

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<v Speaker 2>i mean, god like the thing we do, which is

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<v Speaker 2>like it's.

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<v Speaker 3>Going to say streamers, you know, so that's friends on

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<v Speaker 3>your phone.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So this is extremely bad, and rope Key realizes

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<v Speaker 2>this is a real issue for the success of neoliberalism,

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<v Speaker 2>because people don't actually like being completely autonomized market agents

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<v Speaker 2>with no real social relations other than wages and contracts.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, if presented with these options, they might,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, turn to communism or god forbid, anarchism, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but Rokey, you know, Rokey is on the side of

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<v Speaker 2>bad and.

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<v Speaker 3>The side of bad. Yeah, I think a great title

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<v Speaker 3>for the episode side of that me his biography God.

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<v Speaker 2>Rokey's conclusion from this is that you can't just rely

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<v Speaker 2>on the market passively coming into existence, because if markets

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<v Speaker 2>were supposed to passively come into existence, or if they

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<v Speaker 2>were you know, like the sort of like spontaneous order

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<v Speaker 2>thing that talks about when he's lying, like, if that

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<v Speaker 2>was actually true, they would just have there would be

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<v Speaker 2>everything would be market economies already. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like no, like we would have had the exact

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<v Speaker 2>same economic and political system for the last thirty thousand years,

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<v Speaker 2>but we haven't. So in order to do this, you

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<v Speaker 2>have to make people into good neoliberal market subjects, and

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<v Speaker 2>this requires the intervention of the state. The product of

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<v Speaker 2>this is that Roki is one of the architects of

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<v Speaker 2>what's called structural policy. These are specific state policy things

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<v Speaker 2>that are used to create markets by you know, sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's there's a whole variety of ways that this happens,

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<v Speaker 2>but by acting on and transforming like physically people right

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<v Speaker 2>like what they do, what they believe, how they congregates,

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<v Speaker 2>like what things they're allowed not allowed to do, what

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<v Speaker 2>things are incentivized. This, this is structural policy. This is

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<v Speaker 2>the origin of what's later going to be called structural

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<v Speaker 2>or reform, which is the kind of stuff that the

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<v Speaker 2>IMF does to an economy to create markets by taking

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<v Speaker 2>food from the mouths of babies and making the babies

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<v Speaker 2>work to get the food.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's great to see any way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that part of neoliberalism broadly, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>that comes from order liberalism, and it comes from people

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<v Speaker 2>like Roki. But rope Key realizes that, you know, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a problem of structural policy as an abstract concept, right,

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<v Speaker 2>which is that in order for it to work, you

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<v Speaker 2>need to a take control of the state, because again

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<v Speaker 2>this is a state, but there is a top down

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<v Speaker 2>state reform project, right, and be there has to be

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<v Speaker 2>something beyond the state to create the kind of subjectivity

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<v Speaker 2>you need to instill, you know, to instill in people

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<v Speaker 2>to make them behave quote unquote as market agents. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>you can't just use the state in the market to

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<v Speaker 2>make people behave in the way that they're supposed to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, to be good sort of like workers for

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<v Speaker 2>the workers for the Great market. You need something else

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<v Speaker 2>is specifically, neoliberalism needs its own form of collectivity. It

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<v Speaker 2>needs its own thing that creates social bonds between people.

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<v Speaker 2>It needs its own kind of sort of identification to

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<v Speaker 2>combat the sort of collective society of the left. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of Ropekey's plan, and this is something you share

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<v Speaker 2>us with the other order liberals is that they want

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<v Speaker 2>to do this with you know, they want to use

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<v Speaker 2>the patriarchal family and small businesses as like the sort

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<v Speaker 2>of social basis of all of their sort of routing politics.

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<v Speaker 2>This is very endurable routing politics stuff they also have. Weirdly,

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<v Speaker 2>this is one of the things. It's in the fifties

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<v Speaker 2>and sixties. There's a lot of sort of on every

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<v Speaker 2>side of the political aisle, like kind of romantic utopianism

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<v Speaker 2>ish about like the countryside. You know, this can swing

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<v Speaker 2>wildly between like Mao or like the Japanese fascists or

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<v Speaker 2>the neoliberals. They have this dream of sort of turning

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<v Speaker 2>rural areas into these like bastions of like reaction against

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<v Speaker 2>the left, and that did kind of happen in the US,

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<v Speaker 2>but it didn't happen like it happened because the rural

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<v Speaker 2>economy was completely annihilated and replaced with like a series

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<v Speaker 2>of meth labs, not because I guess technically was a

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<v Speaker 2>dowddream result. It's just that it didn't it. It wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of idyllic like good like farmer family things

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<v Speaker 2>that these people wanted.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, yeah, they got there in an interesting way. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>with like massive agribusiness and meth labs are your two

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<v Speaker 3>choices in life?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and like and you know, so like like yes,

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<v Speaker 2>they this is one of these things where instead of

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<v Speaker 2>achieving their goals through cultural means, they achieve their goals

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<v Speaker 2>through like the massive uh like unbelievable economic violence. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, okay, so that's that's the other thing that

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<v Speaker 2>that and that's all sort of standard neoliberal theory, right.

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<v Speaker 2>But what makes rope Key kind of unique is that

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<v Speaker 2>he's really one of the first of these people to

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<v Speaker 2>realize that you need another force, and that force is

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<v Speaker 2>the church. And this is something that people don't talk

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<v Speaker 2>about a lot when they talk about neoliberalism, but a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of these people are very very deeply Christian. Here's

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<v Speaker 2>Ropeke talking about his ideal society, quote rendering to the king,

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<v Speaker 2>what is owed to the king, but also giving to

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<v Speaker 2>God what belongs to God?

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<v Speaker 3>So what belongs to God?

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<v Speaker 2>And now one now I'm concerned. I mean he's it's

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<v Speaker 2>funny because like he's taken the Bible verse like that

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<v Speaker 2>you're taking to the render under Caesar, like what belongs

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<v Speaker 2>to Caesar, render under blah blah blah blah blah. But

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<v Speaker 2>like it's he's made it enormously more alarming. Yeah, yeah, deeply,

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<v Speaker 2>like because like the thing about the render under Caesar

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<v Speaker 2>is that that's a statement about about like living under

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<v Speaker 2>the Roman Empire, right, right, Like this is just he

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<v Speaker 2>just wants you to fucking have a king. Yeah, give

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<v Speaker 2>shit to everyone needs to a God who is also

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<v Speaker 2>the king.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, It's not even like like the necessity of the

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<v Speaker 3>state thing, like you just dump dumped in like a point,

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<v Speaker 3>let's hereditary, inbred person to give money to.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean she's not like I So, okay, I

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<v Speaker 2>I should I should probably not slander him as thoroughly

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<v Speaker 2>as I'm doing here because I don't actually quite think

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<v Speaker 2>he literally becomes a monarchist. But she does believe that

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<v Speaker 2>there should be like I don't know, you describe it

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<v Speaker 2>like there should be democratic parties, but that like actual

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<v Speaker 2>economic policy shouldn't be like managed by them, Like you

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<v Speaker 2>need like a super a thing above the democracy, which

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<v Speaker 2>is the IMF, to make sure that there's the little

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<v Speaker 2>the little democratic people don't like start getting any ideas

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<v Speaker 2>about the economy.

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<v Speaker 3>Like technocracy like a.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, but you don't put but like the thing

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<v Speaker 2>with the technocracy and this is this is genuinely kind

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<v Speaker 2>of what has been happening in Europe is that like

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<v Speaker 2>living under a technocracy really sucks. Yes, like it sucks

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<v Speaker 2>like politically, it sucks materially, and it sucks like emotionally.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, the right has been able to make

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<v Speaker 2>a lot out of sort of like this opposition to

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<v Speaker 2>like the global bureaucracies or whatever, which is like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>like you guys made these things in the first place,

0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Like I, I, you know, you don't get a fucking

0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.880
<v Speaker 2>complain about the bureaucracies that you set up and ran,

0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.959
<v Speaker 2>but you know I haven't stomped him. Yeah, but but

0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:20.400
<v Speaker 2>rope key, rope key.

0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:20.560
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.199
<v Speaker 2>So a lot of the other order liberals become really

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.600
<v Speaker 2>sort of like you know, are become obsessed with taking

0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.360
<v Speaker 2>over the IMF, which they do and they take over

0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.640
<v Speaker 2>the World Bank and they become you know, they do

0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:35.360
<v Speaker 2>that stuff. Rope Key is obsessed with using the using

0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.680
<v Speaker 2>religion as like another kind of social force that he

0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.680
<v Speaker 2>can bind the othererberal sort of movement together with. And

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:45.600
<v Speaker 2>so he sets out to form like like a kind

0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:49.280
<v Speaker 2>of like reactionary Catholic international to bring neoliberalism to the world.

0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:52.360
<v Speaker 3>That is a troubling concept.

0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it doesn't work, which is the good news. Well,

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.720
<v Speaker 2>and the problem is it doesn't work. It's not that

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't work because it's a bad idea. The reason

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 2>that it doesn't work is that he's trying this in

0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 2>like the fifties and sixties, and it is too early

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.440
<v Speaker 2>for that shit. Yea, Like you know, I mean, and

0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 2>this is something I feel like I should at some

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.320
<v Speaker 2>point I should actually do a deep dive into this

0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 2>on the show. But I've talked about this a couple

0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.520
<v Speaker 2>of times. There is a very powerful form of kind

0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.000
<v Speaker 2>of like conservative Christian politics in Europe at this time.

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.120
<v Speaker 2>It's like the Christian democracy movements. There's like if every

0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 2>single country if you look at it like this, from

0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.880
<v Speaker 2>like the fifties through like the nineties, I mean, and

0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.000
<v Speaker 2>even to this day. In Germany, for example, like there

0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 2>was a party called the Christian Democrats yea, and they

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 2>win like at least sixty percent of all elections, like

0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 2>in Italy, they're in power for like forty years. But

0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 2>the problem with Christian democracy from the perspective of someone

0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:48.920
<v Speaker 2>like Roki is that like if you sort of if

0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:54.360
<v Speaker 2>you take like these parties, right, these parties are you know,

0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.400
<v Speaker 2>these are these are the Christian Conservatives of this era.

0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 2>They are way way too far left for uh, for Roki.

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.720
<v Speaker 2>And that's not just a sort of like Rope, Look

0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.520
<v Speaker 2>got how far right Rope he is, although he is

0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.320
<v Speaker 2>so like if if you took Elder Moro, who's like

0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.240
<v Speaker 2>the great Italian Christian democratic statesman, multiple time Prime Minister

0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 2>of Italy, killed in an insane web of conspiracies, like

0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:23.120
<v Speaker 2>if you, yeah, look i'd labor. Like if you took

0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Elder Morrow and you dropped him into the modern American Congress,

0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:28.560
<v Speaker 2>he would be to the He is again the leader,

0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 2>he's like the leader of Italian Well he's technically from

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.440
<v Speaker 2>the central left faction of the Christian Democrats, but he's

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:37.360
<v Speaker 2>like the guy who's not a socialist or a communist,

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.840
<v Speaker 2>like in terms of Italian politicians, who's not also a fascist?

0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.800
<v Speaker 2>And if you took him from like the seventies and

0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 2>you plopped him into the American Congress, he would be

0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.760
<v Speaker 2>to the left of AOC, Like AOC is pro ceasefire

0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.560
<v Speaker 2>in Gaza, right, like she's she's pro ceasefire in Palestine.

0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 2>Alder Morrow allowed the Popular Threat for the Liberation of Palestine,

0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:01.320
<v Speaker 2>which is the Palestinian Communist per mill terry, to operate

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.920
<v Speaker 2>out of and carry out attacks like from Italy. Right,

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.920
<v Speaker 2>like this guy you would like she is.

0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.680
<v Speaker 3>Well, if you go far enough right, you might get

0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:11.360
<v Speaker 3>that as well.

0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.280
<v Speaker 2>To be fair, no, but but it wouldn't be the PFLP,

0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.920
<v Speaker 2>though I guess I guess some of the German neo

0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Nazis kind of liked them. But right, yeah, like like

0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.320
<v Speaker 2>imagine in the US any politician being like, yeah, the

0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.160
<v Speaker 2>PFLP could operate out of the US or only our

0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.680
<v Speaker 2>only our only condition is that we like we're gonna

0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.080
<v Speaker 2>let you operate, but we're not gonna like protect you

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:37.800
<v Speaker 2>from uh like shim Bette or whatever, like the Masad. Yeah,

0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 2>like racontact you from the Masade like that. But you

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.720
<v Speaker 2>know you can you can do your stuff here? Could

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.640
<v Speaker 2>you imagine that shit happening? This guy was a this

0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:50.680
<v Speaker 2>guy is a conservative in Europe right in like you know,

0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 2>so this is what Rope he's responding to, like the

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.280
<v Speaker 2>the existing Christian you know, and and and you know,

0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.320
<v Speaker 2>to some extent, like the Christian the Christian Democrats are

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:04.359
<v Speaker 2>very very successful stopping communism, right, They're really good at it.

0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.119
<v Speaker 2>They stop communism from taking hold anywhere in Europe. But

0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:15.720
<v Speaker 2>they're not like capitalist enough for ROKEI. So when we

0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.560
<v Speaker 2>come back from this thing ROKEI would have loved, which

0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 2>is ad transitions, we're going to talk about more of

0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:28.000
<v Speaker 2>what Rochi was doing and how it shaped neoliberalism and

0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:44.560
<v Speaker 2>the Christian right. Woo yay, we're back. Roki is having

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.200
<v Speaker 2>a great time in his grave. We're gonna get the

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:47.720
<v Speaker 2>thing that makes him spin at his grave, which I'm

0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:48.600
<v Speaker 2>very excited about.

0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:49.199
<v Speaker 3>Accident.

0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:54.639
<v Speaker 2>But okay, so you know, like as we've sort of

0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.600
<v Speaker 2>been talking about, the Christian Democrats are not the Christian

0:17:57.600 --> 0:17:59.679
<v Speaker 2>The Christian Democrats in a lot of countries are Catholic.

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Some of them, like I think like there are Protestant

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:08.800
<v Speaker 2>like Christian, but like yeah, but like a lot of

0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:10.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of them are Catholic, So I mean, it's

0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.280
<v Speaker 2>it's it's a really interesting kind of like predecessor to

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.080
<v Speaker 2>like modern fire right politics, where you get these like

0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.600
<v Speaker 2>both of the US and Latin America, where you get

0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.720
<v Speaker 2>these sort of like these Catholic Protestant alliances like this

0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:23.920
<v Speaker 2>is this is like Matt Walsh. You know, we're gonna

0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:25.359
<v Speaker 2>be talking about more in the next two days, Like

0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.560
<v Speaker 2>is a Catholic theocrat, right, but a lot of his

0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.639
<v Speaker 2>base are like you know, are like Baptists and like

0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:38.119
<v Speaker 2>the more even more feral charismatic Christians and like you know,

0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:40.120
<v Speaker 2>but but you know, but these these groups are able

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.120
<v Speaker 2>to sort of work together, but they're not able. They're

0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:46.080
<v Speaker 2>not working together way that Rokey wants. So and this

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.560
<v Speaker 2>is the thing that I think is very very scary

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.760
<v Speaker 2>about rop Key, and and especially about the people who

0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:57.040
<v Speaker 2>took this model right, whether explicitly or implicitly, people who

0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.040
<v Speaker 2>people who figure out the same because a lot of people,

0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 2>some people like kind of directly to go for Roki,

0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:08.520
<v Speaker 2>some people discover it through like I very weird readings

0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.120
<v Speaker 2>right wing readings of gramscy Uh, it's a whole thing.

0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.680
<v Speaker 2>I'll talk yeah one day I'm gonna get Eve on

0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.440
<v Speaker 2>the show and we're going to talk about that, because

0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:19.040
<v Speaker 2>it's fucking wild.

0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.080
<v Speaker 3>What the Yeah wow, I think that Gramscy is not

0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.679
<v Speaker 3>the most like inaccessible you know, like it. You know,

0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.159
<v Speaker 3>there there are some like left theorists who just just

0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.879
<v Speaker 3>vomit words so much so you can just project a

0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:36.560
<v Speaker 3>meaning on z them, But I have not.

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they're thing their thing. This is This is

0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Eve Avenger's like thesis is that these people saw that

0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.520
<v Speaker 2>like leftist are reading Gramsey read Gramsey, and we're like,

0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.399
<v Speaker 2>we're going to do the right wing version of this. Okay,

0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.400
<v Speaker 2>yeah so now it's yeah, but you know, so so

0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:53.399
<v Speaker 2>so man, these people are rediscovering the same things that

0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:56.439
<v Speaker 2>Roki has figured out in like the fifties. But the

0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.000
<v Speaker 2>thing that Roki is doing is she's figured out all

0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.399
<v Speaker 2>the essential elements of the modern Christian right. You promote

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:05.040
<v Speaker 2>neoliberalism with one hand, and then you sell the solution

0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.720
<v Speaker 2>to the atomization that your neoliberalism causes on the other

0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:12.520
<v Speaker 2>hand with the church and the church, yes, we will

0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.400
<v Speaker 2>serve as the basis of your political organization.

0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that is that is a there's a way of

0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 3>doing it.

0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean this. It's an interesting there's a lot

0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.240
<v Speaker 2>of people who do this same thing. Like, at some

0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 2>point I'm going to finish my I'm going to write

0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.119
<v Speaker 2>the thing about like this is actually what libertarianism is

0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.879
<v Speaker 2>to a broad extent, is that libertarians are the people

0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:39.119
<v Speaker 2>who like take the problems that the market produces and

0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.400
<v Speaker 2>then try to sell you a solution which is more

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:43.480
<v Speaker 2>of those same problems but worded differently.

0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:48.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so with people that weed now, so it's fine.

0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but but you know so, but this is this

0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.520
<v Speaker 2>is the Christian version of it. But again, rope Key

0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.800
<v Speaker 2>to a large extent is smarter than the people who

0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:03.360
<v Speaker 2>come after him because he understands that this project, this

0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.040
<v Speaker 2>this this sort of Christian deliberal project is a constant

0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.480
<v Speaker 2>struggle against atimization that and and this adamization has to

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.040
<v Speaker 2>be actively politically combated by the church, like both politically

0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:19.160
<v Speaker 2>and socially. And if it's not like actively combatd by

0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.520
<v Speaker 2>the Church, this whole project is going to start to

0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:26.359
<v Speaker 2>come apart. Now rope Key is not the man who's

0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.199
<v Speaker 2>going to lead the mob of Christian fanatics into the

0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:30.119
<v Speaker 2>Promised Land. And part of this is also because he

0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:36.880
<v Speaker 2>is like too racist for like the sixties, which again

0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.800
<v Speaker 2>like so like in the parts of the sixties when

0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.720
<v Speaker 2>he's saying the really racist stuff like segregation is legal

0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 2>in the US, right, like yeah, like that, this is

0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:48.480
<v Speaker 2>this is this is where we're at with this off.

0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.360
<v Speaker 2>He's too racist for that. And the thing that he's

0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:58.480
<v Speaker 2>really really racist about is Rhodesia. Oh fucking hell like apearance, Yeah, yeah,

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.359
<v Speaker 2>this is this is the Rhodesia pivot, which is that. Okay,

0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 2>So the orthodox neoliberals, people like Hayak are pro Rodesia, right,

0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.960
<v Speaker 2>and this is Milton Friedman. These people are pro Rhodesia,

0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:12.080
<v Speaker 2>but they're smart enough to use dog whistles and talk

0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.679
<v Speaker 2>about it in terms of like economic terms and like

0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:16.880
<v Speaker 2>stability of gard and blah blah blah blah blah blah.

0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Rooke is just openly saying race war shit like I'm

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.399
<v Speaker 2>not gonna read it, but he is effectively like the

0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:25.960
<v Speaker 2>spiritual forefadder of like the four chan mass shooter like that,

0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:28.920
<v Speaker 2>that's how racist he is. And you know, it turns

0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:32.120
<v Speaker 2>out that just again openly like open race war shit

0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.000
<v Speaker 2>is like too much for Hyak and he gets kicked

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:40.159
<v Speaker 2>out of the mainsream neoliberal organizations, and tragically, tragically for

0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:42.320
<v Speaker 2>all of us. Rokey dies before you can see his

0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.040
<v Speaker 2>beloved Rhodesia reduced to a pulp by a series of

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:49.280
<v Speaker 2>anti imperialist insurgencies. He dies before he dies, before all

0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 2>of the Rhodesion or like society's fucking fuel supplies stored

0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 2>in one spot blown out.

0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.960
<v Speaker 3>I can say, see, if they had a more distributed

0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.879
<v Speaker 3>market economy, man, they wouldn't have had just just that

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:03.840
<v Speaker 3>all their fuel in one giant bottle which they burned.

0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.440
<v Speaker 3>Spoiler for anyone who hasn't been following the history of Rhodesia,

0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:08.440
<v Speaker 3>not the country anymore.

0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank Christ. I actually don't think Christ. Fuck Christ.

0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Christ didn't do shit.

0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:16.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank all those people who went out there and analyst,

0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:19.920
<v Speaker 3>et cetera. Yeah, and of course all the American people

0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:22.320
<v Speaker 3>who went out to join the Rhodesian military and killed

0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.560
<v Speaker 3>other white Rhodesians by accident, by shooting at people who

0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:28.920
<v Speaker 3>are theoretically on their side. Yeah, shout out to them.

0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:31.879
<v Speaker 2>We're not going to get into North Korea backing another

0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:36.400
<v Speaker 2>genocide in Zimbabwe here. That's also a fucking thing. I've

0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:39.640
<v Speaker 2>not doing. Apologies for that, because actually fucking sucked yeah,

0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:43.119
<v Speaker 2>but you know, okay, but he he dies before he

0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:47.480
<v Speaker 2>can see his beloved Rhodesia fucking eat shit die. But

0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:52.000
<v Speaker 2>what ROKEI had is a very clear version of the

0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:55.880
<v Speaker 2>the hierarchical, neolerbal society that he wanted to create. Right,

0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:00.000
<v Speaker 2>and he is very especially by the end of his life,

0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:04.040
<v Speaker 2>if he is very explicit about what this is. It

0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:08.040
<v Speaker 2>is a Christian, white supremacist, patriarchal world. And to build it,

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:10.200
<v Speaker 2>the right is going to have to use the church

0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:24.119
<v Speaker 2>to stave off the alienization and adamization of capitalism. And

0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:28.119
<v Speaker 2>we're back now. In order to build this new world,

0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:30.800
<v Speaker 2>the world that Ropekey sort of imagines, the religious right,

0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:33.000
<v Speaker 2>the actual religious right that's going to bring this up

0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:36.760
<v Speaker 2>into fuition, sets off from a number of angles. I

0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:38.919
<v Speaker 2>think the most famous part of this is probably the

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 2>sort of moral majority infrastructure, which is this network of

0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:46.040
<v Speaker 2>like Think Tank's political advocacy Organization's TV Network's mailing lists,

0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:53.160
<v Speaker 2>like their own insane right wing colleges, god terrifying places.

0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:58.120
<v Speaker 2>But the fundamental social basis right, the fundamental collective space

0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.720
<v Speaker 2>around which the right is organized eyes was the church.

0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:04.840
<v Speaker 2>There's been a lot of sociological talk in the last

0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:08.480
<v Speaker 2>few years about like quote unquote third spaces. So the

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:10.280
<v Speaker 2>third space is supposed to be this place that's like

0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:13.000
<v Speaker 2>not the home or not the workplace that people can

0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:16.760
<v Speaker 2>exist in and form bonds in. And you know, people

0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:19.960
<v Speaker 2>talk about like bridge clubs blah blah blah blah blah.

0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:24.080
<v Speaker 2>But the thing about the US is that, like the

0:25:24.080 --> 0:25:26.440
<v Speaker 2>fucking YMCA, like all of these things that people talk

0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:28.720
<v Speaker 2>about as the third space are just the church in

0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:33.560
<v Speaker 2>different forms, yea literally church or a bunch of church

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:34.280
<v Speaker 2>run events.

0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:39.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, especially like the more like a rural you get

0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:42.399
<v Speaker 3>like it is this and this and this is one

0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:44.080
<v Speaker 3>of these things like that this was actually like one

0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:46.359
<v Speaker 3>of the sort of rear flanks of the workers movement, right,

0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:49.200
<v Speaker 3>which is that like in large parts of Appalachia, right,

0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:51.840
<v Speaker 3>you have a bunch of really really militant like miners

0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:52.800
<v Speaker 3>unions for example.

0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:55.720
<v Speaker 2>But then you know, but all of them are also

0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:58.679
<v Speaker 2>like are also are also Baptists. And that is fine

0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:01.240
<v Speaker 2>as long as you know you're you're you're dealing with

0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:03.399
<v Speaker 2>Baptists who are doing well. I mean, I say fine,

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:07.080
<v Speaker 2>but like it's not an existential threat to the workers

0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:10.399
<v Speaker 2>movement when you're dealing with like like you know, like

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:13.160
<v Speaker 2>it's easier for an arrow to like, sorry, it's easier

0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:14.439
<v Speaker 2>for a camel to walk through the head of a

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:16.399
<v Speaker 2>pin than it is for a rich mandy go to

0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:20.000
<v Speaker 2>have in Baptists. But the moment that still starts flipping,

0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:22.119
<v Speaker 2>that's a very very dangerous sort of rear guard. You

0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:25.280
<v Speaker 2>see this Naian American communities where like you know, Asian

0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Americans generally, like the last two generations like Millennials and

0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:33.480
<v Speaker 2>gen Z are tacking really really hard left, except the

0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:38.119
<v Speaker 2>fucking Christians who are like forming this this insane rearguard.

0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:40.919
<v Speaker 2>Because I've complained about this before around fucking I'm doing this.

0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:42.520
<v Speaker 2>This is this is this is a Christianity episode. I

0:26:42.520 --> 0:26:45.200
<v Speaker 2>could talk about this that the thing the thing about

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Asian Christians is that they're all they're almost all like

0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:51.880
<v Speaker 2>first Schenk converts, so they all have convert brain, which

0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:55.919
<v Speaker 2>means completely fucking bat shit. Yeah. So you know, and

0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:57.679
<v Speaker 2>this is one of the things that we're talking about here, right,

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:00.680
<v Speaker 2>is that the physically the church serves this very very

0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 2>important engine kind of kind of revolution. There's this engine

0:27:03.280 --> 0:27:06.119
<v Speaker 2>of sort of spreading reactionary politics even among groups of

0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.440
<v Speaker 2>people who you normally wouldn't get that kind of sort

0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:12.840
<v Speaker 2>of right wing politics from. And this is where, you know,

0:27:13.080 --> 0:27:16.000
<v Speaker 2>face with the sort of leftward shifts in the US

0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:18.560
<v Speaker 2>and the sixties and seventies globally too, face with you know,

0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:21.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean literally the specter of revolutions and not even

0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.320
<v Speaker 2>like sometimes not even specters like you know, this is

0:27:24.440 --> 0:27:28.080
<v Speaker 2>post sixty eight, right, there's been a bunch of actual uprisings. Yeah,

0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:31.679
<v Speaker 2>and they're the place that they make their move is

0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:34.640
<v Speaker 2>by trying to seize control of various pieces of church infrastructure.

0:27:35.040 --> 0:27:37.600
<v Speaker 2>We're going to take a Catholic example and a Protestant example,

0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:40.080
<v Speaker 2>and we're not going to do the obvious Orthodox example

0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:44.720
<v Speaker 2>because we'd be here for a century. So let's start

0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:49.359
<v Speaker 2>with Roki's beloved Catholic church. I think I don't know

0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:51.520
<v Speaker 2>if I'm gonna do a little bit of left inside baseball.

0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:53.280
<v Speaker 2>I think people on the left tend to be really

0:27:53.320 --> 0:27:59.280
<v Speaker 2>obsessed with the like liberation theology people. But the problem

0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:03.960
<v Speaker 2>with liberation theology people is that they were around for

0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:07.200
<v Speaker 2>maybe like thirty years, right, But by the time you

0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:09.199
<v Speaker 2>get to the end of the eighties, these people are

0:28:09.240 --> 0:28:12.720
<v Speaker 2>all dead, right, Like they're either dead or they're like

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Ortega and they've become these like literally they start calling

0:28:16.560 --> 0:28:20.320
<v Speaker 2>themselves the Third Way and are like cutting all these

0:28:20.320 --> 0:28:26.600
<v Speaker 2>deals with like really right wing social groups. But so

0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:29.600
<v Speaker 2>and so this means that the dominant politics of like

0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:36.439
<v Speaker 2>the capital, like t Capital c. The Catholic Church is

0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:42.000
<v Speaker 2>very gets very very right wing. Well it's not even

0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:43.640
<v Speaker 2>that as much as it gets right wing, but it

0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:45.920
<v Speaker 2>is very right wing. And the stuff that they're doing

0:28:46.040 --> 0:28:48.520
<v Speaker 2>is very, very scary. One of the things that I

0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:51.680
<v Speaker 2>don't think people really realize is that so that probably

0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 2>you've heard the term gender ideology. Yeah, yes, yeah, do

0:28:56.880 --> 0:28:57.880
<v Speaker 2>you know where that's from?

0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:02.160
<v Speaker 3>Is it from I've fucking forgotten the place where Harry

0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:03.000
<v Speaker 3>Potter goes.

0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 2>Hogwarts. Yeah. JFK is a fucking Johnny come late bastard.

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:12.880
<v Speaker 2>Like she she she got into this game after that

0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:17.479
<v Speaker 2>ship had already started. Gender ideology is a term k rowling.

0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:23.760
<v Speaker 3>Jfk rowling is powerful speaking like this.

0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:28.000
<v Speaker 2>The term gender ideology comes from the Catholic Church, and

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:34.000
<v Speaker 2>it's developed in reactions specifically to feminism, and very specifically

0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:39.800
<v Speaker 2>it's developed in reaction to to arguments from feminists that

0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:42.440
<v Speaker 2>that you know that gender is socially constructed, you know,

0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:44.520
<v Speaker 2>because in the Catholic Church's position is like, well, no,

0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:48.400
<v Speaker 2>that's heretical because obviously gender was assigned by God. And

0:29:48.440 --> 0:29:51.560
<v Speaker 2>because gender is asigned by God, like women are like

0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:54.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, women are like like submissive blah blah blah

0:29:54.400 --> 0:29:56.640
<v Speaker 2>blah blah. Yeah, like natural this is this is this

0:29:56.720 --> 0:29:59.360
<v Speaker 2>is the natural order. This isn't like a sociologically constructor thing.

0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:02.400
<v Speaker 2>This is the natural It's been in tusays Billy b

0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:06.160
<v Speaker 2>because they're like like unfathomably sexist.

0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:10.120
<v Speaker 3>Is this like around there, like Elaine Pagel's beef with

0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:13.120
<v Speaker 3>the church, I'm not sure of Blaine Pagel's if with

0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 3>Elaine Pagel's God the Father Got the Mother.

0:30:17.600 --> 0:30:19.680
<v Speaker 2>I think this is a bit before my time.

0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:24.160
<v Speaker 3>Okay, yeah, yeah, this is for World History stands at

0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:26.120
<v Speaker 3>the University of California in common topic.

0:30:26.520 --> 0:30:29.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think I think this is actually in the same.

0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:33.640
<v Speaker 3>I've played videos of her to my students, and definitely

0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:36.760
<v Speaker 3>in the eighties, like the vibe is powerfully eighties.

0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I guess that's a bit late because so

0:30:38.880 --> 0:30:40.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the generality, all this stuff comes out

0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:43.840
<v Speaker 2>of the early night. Well, I guess it's like early nineties. Okay,

0:30:44.440 --> 0:30:47.680
<v Speaker 2>So one of the things that happens is that a

0:30:47.720 --> 0:30:50.240
<v Speaker 2>lot of you know, in the nineties, the Catholic Church,

0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:52.680
<v Speaker 2>and they have a bunch of like rad fam allies here,

0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:56.240
<v Speaker 2>by the way, do you have this massive fight in

0:30:56.360 --> 0:31:01.000
<v Speaker 2>the un about like recognizing the right abortions and other

0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:05.680
<v Speaker 2>like sexual reproductive rights. And the Red Fems are pissed

0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:09.480
<v Speaker 2>off because I mean, there's a whole so they're they've

0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:11.120
<v Speaker 2>been they're aligned with the Catholic Church is like an

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:13.960
<v Speaker 2>anti sex work thing and like an anti porn thing.

0:31:14.880 --> 0:31:17.480
<v Speaker 2>And then also like a lot of the Red Fems, well,

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 2>I gat, I got in so much trouble for saying this,

0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:22.479
<v Speaker 2>but like, holy shit, there's somebody those people are insanely

0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:26.520
<v Speaker 2>trenchs phobic. Yeah damn wow. But you know, but like this,

0:31:27.040 --> 0:31:29.280
<v Speaker 2>this is this, there's this massive battle inside the United

0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Nations between a bunch of feminists and or like feminists

0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:36.520
<v Speaker 2>who are like normal, and then like there's the shitty

0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:39.240
<v Speaker 2>radvm factions and the Catholic Church on the other side.

0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:43.360
<v Speaker 2>And Pope Benedict in particular goes like all out on

0:31:43.400 --> 0:31:45.320
<v Speaker 2>this stuff, both on the international level and in terms

0:31:45.360 --> 0:31:47.680
<v Speaker 2>of like local churches like goes on the offensive against

0:31:47.680 --> 0:31:51.520
<v Speaker 2>abortion and queer liberation, and meanwhile the Protestant Church is

0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:55.640
<v Speaker 2>doing like exactly the same thing. They're like pro except

0:31:55.760 --> 0:31:59.880
<v Speaker 2>like I think, I think, like even more fascist, which

0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:02.680
<v Speaker 2>is really really and I say, this is someone who

0:32:02.720 --> 0:32:04.920
<v Speaker 2>has raised Lutheran like that that is really the core

0:32:04.960 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 2>of Protestantism is like what if we did Catholicism but

0:32:07.680 --> 0:32:12.760
<v Speaker 2>like somehow shittier, like like Martin Luther. One day, I'm

0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:14.360
<v Speaker 2>going to do my thing on the world's greatest kind

0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:16.400
<v Speaker 2>of revolutionaries and then one of them is Martin Luther,

0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:19.280
<v Speaker 2>because oh yeah, very clear, because like like I might.

0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:20.840
<v Speaker 2>My argument for this is that the greatest kind of

0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:23.840
<v Speaker 2>revolutionary is the person who starts out at on on

0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:26.200
<v Speaker 2>the side of the revolution and then turns against it.

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:28.160
<v Speaker 2>And so Martin Luther's thing was he was trying to

0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:33.760
<v Speaker 2>outflank the Catholic Church in the sixteen hundreds from the

0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:38.360
<v Speaker 2>right on anti Semitism. Sorry, I meant a sixteen sixteenth

0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:41.200
<v Speaker 2>century fififteen hundred and fifty hundreds, which is even worse,

0:32:41.200 --> 0:32:44.560
<v Speaker 2>fifty hundreds Catholic Church they have expelled they have like

0:32:44.920 --> 0:32:46.520
<v Speaker 2>just they have there. This is this is in the

0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:48.560
<v Speaker 2>period where they were like expelling all of the Jews

0:32:48.560 --> 0:32:52.320
<v Speaker 2>from Spain right, and Martin Luther's trying to like flank them,

0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:55.520
<v Speaker 2>and this is the kind of shit that's happening like

0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 2>in the US at this point, which is you know,

0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:00.200
<v Speaker 2>this is this is this is the this is the

0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Protestant sort of following the Catholic like why and in

0:33:03.640 --> 0:33:07.360
<v Speaker 2>some ways blazing their own trail of going really hard right.

0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:10.720
<v Speaker 2>So probably the most famous and I think definitely one

0:33:10.760 --> 0:33:15.160
<v Speaker 2>of the most important examples of this is the right

0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:18.360
<v Speaker 2>wing seizure of the Southern Baptist Convention in nineteen seventy nine.

0:33:18.400 --> 0:33:21.160
<v Speaker 2>So for people who don't know about the Southern Baptist Convention,

0:33:21.240 --> 0:33:26.280
<v Speaker 2>they are a very very large and influential like group

0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:29.760
<v Speaker 2>of Baptist churches, and they've been kind of like they'd

0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:33.720
<v Speaker 2>been anti segregation, they've been sort of like trending left,

0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:37.040
<v Speaker 2>and there's this is one of the things. This is

0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:40.800
<v Speaker 2>a very very famous thing in the history like if

0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:43.000
<v Speaker 2>if you're you know, it's sort of like the history

0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:45.000
<v Speaker 2>and mythos of the right wing is like in nineteen

0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:47.440
<v Speaker 2>seventy nine, at this convention, these like there's like these

0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:50.160
<v Speaker 2>group of pastors who are like, ah, the church is

0:33:50.160 --> 0:33:53.360
<v Speaker 2>getting too woke or getting too left. They scrolled out

0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:56.560
<v Speaker 2>this plan like on a fucking napkin to like how

0:33:56.560 --> 0:33:57.920
<v Speaker 2>they were going to take over the church. And they

0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:01.320
<v Speaker 2>do it. They see they seek control Baptist Convention, and

0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:06.200
<v Speaker 2>they purge all of their enemies and it is very

0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:09.040
<v Speaker 2>very quickly, within a matter of like a couple of years,

0:34:09.080 --> 0:34:13.319
<v Speaker 2>it's converted into this factory for right wing violence. Yeah,

0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:16.800
<v Speaker 2>they they are. They ruthlessly Purgectingo sent in the churches.

0:34:16.800 --> 0:34:19.359
<v Speaker 2>A bunch of churches leave because they're like, what, who

0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:21.880
<v Speaker 2>the fuck are these people? Like just these absolutely right

0:34:21.880 --> 0:34:23.840
<v Speaker 2>wing fanatics. Is like I've taken controls. A bunch of

0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:27.480
<v Speaker 2>churches leave, but a lot of them stay. And you

0:34:27.520 --> 0:34:30.000
<v Speaker 2>know what they're what their project is is that they

0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:34.120
<v Speaker 2>start creating these sort of totalitarian micro states, like in

0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:35.920
<v Speaker 2>like this is this what they turn churches into, and

0:34:35.920 --> 0:34:38.880
<v Speaker 2>this is what they turn households into, because these households

0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:43.800
<v Speaker 2>become enormous centers of abuse, like just unfathomable amounts of

0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:46.399
<v Speaker 2>violence can sort of get get sort of spread out

0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:50.040
<v Speaker 2>of this stuff. And you know the way that these

0:34:50.080 --> 0:34:53.839
<v Speaker 2>things work, right is is is you may have seen

0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:57.200
<v Speaker 2>have you seen those like fucking deranged umbrella memes that

0:34:57.239 --> 0:35:00.920
<v Speaker 2>the Christian right makes on Twitter. No, so, okay, they're

0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:03.480
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be like these like umbrellas, and there's like's

0:35:03.480 --> 0:35:05.839
<v Speaker 2>some familiarly or the umbrella like protect you from the things.

0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:07.920
<v Speaker 2>So there's like the family and is had the family.

0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 2>They're like protected by the authority of the husband. You're

0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:13.080
<v Speaker 2>protected by the authority of the church, protected by the

0:35:13.120 --> 0:35:15.120
<v Speaker 2>authority of like the theocratic state.

0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:19.080
<v Speaker 3>Okay, no, this is like the most cursed Russian doll.

0:35:19.320 --> 0:35:22.759
<v Speaker 2>It's awful, And this is just what these people believe, right,

0:35:23.080 --> 0:35:26.480
<v Speaker 2>and they enforce this through psychological and physical violence. These

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:29.719
<v Speaker 2>people are they're sending out instruction manuals about how to

0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:33.279
<v Speaker 2>beat your children right and how to do it in

0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:35.800
<v Speaker 2>ways that you won't get caught, you know. And like

0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:38.399
<v Speaker 2>what I'm saying, these are like totalitarian micro states. That's

0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:41.040
<v Speaker 2>not an exaggeration that that is what these households are. Like,

0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:44.160
<v Speaker 2>they're unbelievably violent. You as a child or is under

0:35:44.160 --> 0:35:48.120
<v Speaker 2>constant surveillance. You are literally forced to through physical violence

0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:51.520
<v Speaker 2>to maintain their gender norms. And this is the base

0:35:51.840 --> 0:35:54.760
<v Speaker 2>of the Christian of the homophobic Christian right. These churches

0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:58.120
<v Speaker 2>are pumping out shocktroopers. And these are the shock troopers

0:35:58.200 --> 0:36:02.560
<v Speaker 2>both of neoliberalism and homophobic con transphobic violence. And when

0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I say shockstroppers, I do mean this literally. Because an

0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.080
<v Speaker 2>enormous number of these people, and this is part of

0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:09.920
<v Speaker 2>the reason's politics, it starts to fall apart. Like I

0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:11.800
<v Speaker 2>grew up around these people. A lot of these people

0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:14.759
<v Speaker 2>went to fucking a rock and got the absolute shit

0:36:14.800 --> 0:36:20.960
<v Speaker 2>blown out of them. But you know, these people, like

0:36:21.040 --> 0:36:25.080
<v Speaker 2>these these churches, this is you know, you can look

0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:27.719
<v Speaker 2>at the sort of panopoly of the people who do

0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:30.680
<v Speaker 2>right wing like homophobic violence. Right the queer basher, the

0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:33.040
<v Speaker 2>peronew kicks their kid out of their homes for being gay,

0:36:33.520 --> 0:36:36.279
<v Speaker 2>the homophobic boss who fires and abuses queer workers, the

0:36:36.320 --> 0:36:38.439
<v Speaker 2>doctor who assaults us and then denies his medical care.

0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:42.279
<v Speaker 2>These people are pumped up by the church. And what

0:36:42.320 --> 0:36:44.239
<v Speaker 2>the church is doing here is they're serving as the

0:36:44.280 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 2>equivalent of sort of of unions in the left right.

0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:48.719
<v Speaker 2>And when I say unions, I'm talking more like the

0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:51.239
<v Speaker 2>nineteen oh seven IWW of in like the twenty twenty

0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:55.280
<v Speaker 2>three AFLCIO. These churches are the social and organizational space

0:36:55.400 --> 0:36:58.480
<v Speaker 2>in which the right constructions its world right, it's the

0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:01.680
<v Speaker 2>sort of nexus of homophobic organizing from the beginnings of

0:37:01.719 --> 0:37:03.359
<v Speaker 2>the Hope of Home, like right through like their fight

0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:09.920
<v Speaker 2>against gay marriage. But Kaba, something happened that rope well,

0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:14.200
<v Speaker 2>I think rope Key might have suspected this, but something

0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:18.320
<v Speaker 2>happens that his inheritors did not expect. And that's something

0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:21.759
<v Speaker 2>is the only thing I failed to consider is what

0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:26.920
<v Speaker 2>if neoliberalism came for the church. So one of the

0:37:26.920 --> 0:37:29.399
<v Speaker 2>things that has happened in the last and I mean

0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:34.759
<v Speaker 2>literally we are talking the last ten years or ten

0:37:34.800 --> 0:37:37.879
<v Speaker 2>to fifteen years, really the last like ten years, church

0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:40.520
<v Speaker 2>attendants and this is also actually true well of synagogual

0:37:40.560 --> 0:37:43.000
<v Speaker 2>mosco attendants with the church tendants has been declining way more.

0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:45.640
<v Speaker 2>It used to be like you know, if if if

0:37:45.680 --> 0:37:48.239
<v Speaker 2>you're are you a member of a church? Moster synagogurea

0:37:48.360 --> 0:37:50.320
<v Speaker 2>like Gallup has been pulling this since the fucking forties.

0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:53.600
<v Speaker 2>It used to be the rate of it of being

0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:56.799
<v Speaker 2>a member of a church st Agaga mosque was it

0:37:56.840 --> 0:38:02.640
<v Speaker 2>was for like basically until like two thousand, it was

0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:10.160
<v Speaker 2>hovering around seventy percent. It's now forty seven. That is

0:38:10.200 --> 0:38:15.920
<v Speaker 2>a catastrophic drop. That is a rewriting of like fundamentally

0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:18.680
<v Speaker 2>what the US is. The US has been a like

0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 2>Christian health state, like since it was created, right, Like

0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:26.560
<v Speaker 2>the US is founded by like religious extremists whose problem

0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:29.200
<v Speaker 2>is that they weren't allowed to pursue Catholics enough. So

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:32.160
<v Speaker 2>this has been this has been a church country more

0:38:32.200 --> 0:38:34.560
<v Speaker 2>so than like most of the European countries. You did

0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:40.480
<v Speaker 2>the settling up until literally the last twenty years, and

0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:44.840
<v Speaker 2>the drop between twenty ten and now is like fourteen percent.

0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:50.160
<v Speaker 2>And this is this is and it's not just that

0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:54.120
<v Speaker 2>the membership rates are going down, like the actual church

0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:57.680
<v Speaker 2>attendance is going down. And so in this context where

0:38:57.719 --> 0:38:59.560
<v Speaker 2>less people are going to a church, less people belong

0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:04.600
<v Speaker 2>to a church, the political strategies that have been based

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:08.480
<v Speaker 2>on using the church as like your default social network. Uh,

0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:13.360
<v Speaker 2>they don't have the kind of reach that they used to. Yeah,

0:39:13.400 --> 0:39:17.400
<v Speaker 2>and if that's your political strategy, this is a catastrophe

0:39:17.400 --> 0:39:19.880
<v Speaker 2>for you. Now, you know, we could talk that there

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:21.920
<v Speaker 2>are like, there are lots of reasons this is happening,

0:39:22.000 --> 0:39:23.960
<v Speaker 2>part of which is sort of like the secularization of

0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:27.200
<v Speaker 2>the US. Part of this is that there's been so

0:39:27.360 --> 0:39:30.479
<v Speaker 2>many fucking atrocious abuse scandals in these churches that people

0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:33.080
<v Speaker 2>are just fucking leaving because that's what happens. Yeah, you know,

0:39:33.440 --> 0:39:36.520
<v Speaker 2>and one day, one day, the thing I really will

0:39:36.520 --> 0:39:38.640
<v Speaker 2>get canceled for is when I would the episode I

0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:40.759
<v Speaker 2>do about how this happened in the DSA and how

0:39:40.800 --> 0:39:43.080
<v Speaker 2>it just haulowed out the membership because you know, it

0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:45.359
<v Speaker 2>turns out wh people get abused, they just fucking leave.

0:39:45.680 --> 0:39:48.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, not just the DSA, like unfortuately.

0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:51.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, this happens in so many organizing like this is yeah,

0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:58.040
<v Speaker 2>stuff being fucking creeps. Yeah, but like you know, yeah,

0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:01.320
<v Speaker 2>the Christian right has a particularly bad because they don't

0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:04.319
<v Speaker 2>they did there or address it, right, this is part

0:40:04.320 --> 0:40:06.120
<v Speaker 2>of their ideologies that this is good.

0:40:06.719 --> 0:40:08.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's the problem, like at least in the left,

0:40:09.000 --> 0:40:12.439
<v Speaker 3>Like it keeps fucking happening, and we do recognize it's bad.

0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:15.480
<v Speaker 3>We sometimes just seemingly people on the lefts are prepaired

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:17.000
<v Speaker 3>to allow it to happen because I think it's not

0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:20.239
<v Speaker 3>as bad as the alternative, but which is bullshit. But yeah,

0:40:20.360 --> 0:40:26.400
<v Speaker 3>when you have a church which actively kind of encourages it, yes, actually.

0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:27.799
<v Speaker 2>And and and part of and the other the other

0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:29.480
<v Speaker 2>thing that's happening here, right, is that, like the other

0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:31.719
<v Speaker 2>thing that's generating this is just there is just the

0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:34.719
<v Speaker 2>neoliberal adimisation of society, like it's it's tearing apart, sort

0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:37.200
<v Speaker 2>of like social bound you know. And and I mean

0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:38.279
<v Speaker 2>one of the things I think you have to be

0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:40.600
<v Speaker 2>careful of when you talk about neoliberalism tearing about social

0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:43.040
<v Speaker 2>bonds is that not all a lot of those bonds sucked,

0:40:43.960 --> 0:40:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Like it was not good that everyone with seventy percent

0:40:47.360 --> 0:40:50.799
<v Speaker 2>of Americans were going to church, right, Like, not good

0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:54.680
<v Speaker 2>at all. That sucked. It was deeply evil. But you know,

0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:58.520
<v Speaker 2>it tears apart like it tears, it tears apart bonds,

0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:03.040
<v Speaker 2>not entirely without regard to ideology, but it still does

0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:08.680
<v Speaker 2>do it. And this means this context has completely reshaped

0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:11.799
<v Speaker 2>what right wing like anti career and anti transorganizing looks like.

0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:16.080
<v Speaker 2>And the right right now, the right solution to that

0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:21.040
<v Speaker 2>is the Daily Wire. And we will get explained that

0:41:21.160 --> 0:41:24.120
<v Speaker 2>in very great length tomorrow and the day after that,

0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:25.160
<v Speaker 2>So stay tuned.

0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:31.920
<v Speaker 3>Does and three of the bad Guy, Well, we already

0:41:31.920 --> 0:41:33.200
<v Speaker 3>had a bad guy. I guess he's dead.

0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:38.200
<v Speaker 2>These ones, Yeah, this is the bad guy number two, yeah, three, four,

0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:41.200
<v Speaker 2>maybe after the Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist Convention.

0:41:42.000 --> 0:41:44.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, they're right up there there. They've still got

0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:47.360
<v Speaker 3>time too. You know, they're already only in their ascendancy,

0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:49.480
<v Speaker 3>so we shouldn't judge him too, Eddie.

0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Yep, but yeah, this has Beennike, it happened here. Go

0:41:53.640 --> 0:41:55.160
<v Speaker 2>make these people's lives miserable.

0:41:56.800 --> 0:42:00.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, Bench Perry is miserable because I write a

0:42:00.400 --> 0:42:03.080
<v Speaker 3>peace of pop mechanics about how to tear down the

0:42:03.120 --> 0:42:06.960
<v Speaker 3>statue and he is still mad about it because he

0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:09.160
<v Speaker 3>said I can't wait for their piece about mods of

0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:11.040
<v Speaker 3>cocktails and I never wrote that as well, So Ben

0:42:11.080 --> 0:42:14.560
<v Speaker 3>Shapiro can suck it. Thank you for the career help

0:42:14.600 --> 0:42:15.360
<v Speaker 3>of Ben Shapiro.

0:42:21.239 --> 0:42:23.640
<v Speaker 1>It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

0:42:23.840 --> 0:42:26.520
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0:42:26.560 --> 0:42:28.799
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0:42:28.840 --> 0:42:32.279
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