Speaker 1: I could not be more excited about this new addition
Speaker 1: to the Forever Dog podcast Network. They are our sisters,
Speaker 1: they are are judies. It's Sydney Washington and Marie Houston
Speaker 1: and the Unofficial Expert is now on Forever Dog Podcast Network.
Speaker 1: And you are gags. We're so so so thrilled, and
Speaker 1: you are gags. You are you are a listener? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you driving your car, you on the subway,
Speaker 1: you washing your goddamn dish. Oh god, you're really coming
Speaker 1: for the dishwashers, aren't you. Sydney and Marie are truly
Speaker 1: like two of the most charismatic, charming, funny people you can.
Speaker 1: I could listen to them talk all day. If you
Speaker 1: love sex and dating podcasts, comedy podcast or Forever Dog
Speaker 1: podcasts like Glass Culture is does an seek Treatment, You're
Speaker 1: going to love the Unofficial Expert. So basically what happens
Speaker 1: on the Unofficial Expert is Sydney and Marie will sit
Speaker 1: down with comedians and you know, people have notes who
Speaker 1: claimed to be experts in very specific fields like flirting, porn,
Speaker 1: daddy issues, online dating, cookouts, stalking. I went on and
Speaker 1: I was the Hollywood Expert and it's just they just
Speaker 1: shoot the ship about these things that they're experts in.
Speaker 1: I went on, I was the travel expert. It was
Speaker 1: a completely aimless conversation that still managed to be compelling.
Speaker 1: We love aimless, We love aimless. Sidney and Marie are unapologetic, exciting,
Speaker 1: incredibly funny and you need to get to know them
Speaker 1: and they're hilarious, honest comedy asap. Yeah, you probably heard
Speaker 1: their episode on Lost Culture Recess. It was so fun,
Speaker 1: so fun, and I think maybe we should even do
Speaker 1: some crossover episodes with that, maybe trade up. So subscribe
Speaker 1: to the Unofficial Expert right now at Apple podcast or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Oh hi, it's Bowen here
Speaker 1: and I have to have to have to tell you
Speaker 1: about our next I don't think so many live show
Speaker 1: here in New York as part of the Brooklyn Comedy
Speaker 1: Festival on September two at seven pm at Brooklyn Bazaar,
Speaker 1: one Green Point Avenue in Brooklyn. It's gonna be so fun. Uh.
Speaker 1: The unofficial theme of this one is legends all we're
Speaker 1: doing some of we're doing all vet's basically people who
Speaker 1: have done it before, who have really defined the form
Speaker 1: for what it is it's gonna be so fun. We're
Speaker 1: so excited. Fifty comedians and here's a first look at
Speaker 1: the lineup. We've got your allegiends, We've got your Larry Owen's,
Speaker 1: your na Fit Brigas. You're Catherine Cohen's, Aaron Jackson's, Julio Torres,
Speaker 1: is Metro Jahres, Peter Smith, Francesca Ramsey her first time
Speaker 1: doing it live. You cannot miss this, oh and Cola Scola,
Speaker 1: Dwayne Perk and Sarah Toolemas Pat Regan daw It's gonna
Speaker 1: be so so so fun again. That's September twenty two
Speaker 1: at seven pm at Brooklyn Bazaar as part of the
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Comedy Festival. Can't wait, see you there forever? Look
Speaker 1: may Oh, I see you? Why why? And look over there?
Speaker 1: How is that nulture? Yeah? Goodness? Wells ding don lost
Speaker 1: culturestas calling and look at us recording on on Day
Speaker 1: the Lord's Day, I asked HPJ Hot producer jam I said,
Speaker 1: do you normally come in on sandcy Goes? Yeah, basically
Speaker 1: you come in every day, don't you. We gotta we
Speaker 1: gotta do like a little I don't know, lifestyle clinic
Speaker 1: with with Joe because he's got to like claim the
Speaker 1: time for himself and not Maybe this work a holic.
Speaker 1: Maybe we need to do a whole Patreon series which
Speaker 1: is the life of Joe HPJ and just really so
Speaker 1: the listeners can really get to see the glimpse behind
Speaker 1: the man. Yes, behind the hot facade. And I want
Speaker 1: to say, your desk looks fucking incredible. It's a Marie
Speaker 1: Condo dream. You clean to that desk You got in
Speaker 1: your hands and knees, didn't you? Is that a f
Speaker 1: I haven't even seen that for just been there for
Speaker 1: just been there all along, but you couldn't see with
Speaker 1: all the clutter. Well, um, but first of all, Terrible
Speaker 1: of New York magazine loves hot producer content. This is
Speaker 1: hot producer content right here. Nothing but he's saying nothing.
Speaker 1: It's okay, but just everyone, if you want to give
Speaker 1: Joe a little bit of Um, I don't know advice
Speaker 1: on on how to sort of like just just just
Speaker 1: self care. Maybe I don't know. We're in this moment now,
Speaker 1: what does it need advice? He's got a thing in
Speaker 1: front of him that separates papers. What is that? It's
Speaker 1: it's a it's a letter separator. Well, that's incredible. I've
Speaker 1: never said anything like this letter separator separates one letter
Speaker 1: from all the other ones. Unbelievable. Joe is the function, Well,
Speaker 1: you're a maniac. We have them. We have like a
Speaker 1: really really really honorable it's a big day, and it's
Speaker 1: a day. He's laughing, he's chuckling, chuckling along and it's
Speaker 1: like you have you sounds just like I'm the next
Speaker 1: Prime Minister, kung Fu master, but or you know, horrifics.
Speaker 1: And here's the thing. I was gonna say two things.
Speaker 1: It's a big day, first ever. Reasons why we have
Speaker 1: this guest yes to We're gonna go see this guest
Speaker 1: show later on. Yes, now say the title because I'm
Speaker 1: stupid and can't. Oh, bitch after you please say it.
Speaker 1: She got it pretty close. It's pretty even myself before.
Speaker 1: How many times did I get it wrong before I
Speaker 1: got it right? Eighteen eighteen? Number about d sweet? You
Speaker 1: just want to say one thing. I want a break
Speaker 1: and eyebust friend. Yeah, yeah, my best friend is doing
Speaker 1: the monologues at askat tonight and wonderful and then we're
Speaker 1: gonna do that and then we're gonna go say deluge
Speaker 1: the Buddy Cole Monologs at Joe's Pub. He just finished
Speaker 1: a great run of shows there this summer. Hopefully it
Speaker 1: comes back. Um, but he's he's an old Joe's Pub
Speaker 1: Rez Joe's Pub, Hope, Old jud Pub Joe Jo He's God,
Speaker 1: he's just really kind of stood on. He's he's an
Speaker 1: honorable sketch comedy legend. Let's just go ahead and say
Speaker 1: that from the kids in the hall, from kids in
Speaker 1: the hall. Um, and uh, you know I would say,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about this. We you and I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: doing any of what we would be we would be
Speaker 1: doing without him, I truly know, without this honorable one,
Speaker 1: Without this honorable one. And he's also celebrating the rerelease
Speaker 1: of his book, Buddy Babylon, Yes, Buddy Babylon, the Autobiography.
Speaker 1: You know, the release release, there's a release date. I
Speaker 1: think they did it at stone Wall. That's actually rule
Speaker 1: of culture number six, you know, release when there's a
Speaker 1: re release. Absolutely and a please check out his album.
Speaker 1: Not a fan. Uh, it is our honor to welcome
Speaker 1: the honorable Scott Thompson very much. Well, it's an honor
Speaker 1: to be here. Now here's the thing, so look, growing up,
Speaker 1: I had like Saturday Night Live in mad TV. I
Speaker 1: didn't really have kids in the hall, and in America,
Speaker 1: that wasn't really part of like my my like I
Speaker 1: guess media diet. But I've become familiar with it recently,
Speaker 1: and I have to say I'm kind of happy I
Speaker 1: didn't grow up with it because I think I'd be
Speaker 1: overwhelmed right now. Really, yeah, I think I would. I
Speaker 1: think I really would. I think you're definitely honorable. Scott Is.
Speaker 1: I mean, Scott is just is. I don't know, just
Speaker 1: accept this is I is when you is, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's just just just being able to just I don't know,
Speaker 1: see Buddy Cole sort of unfold and sort of develop
Speaker 1: over time during a time of your Andrew Dice Clays
Speaker 1: and you already Murphy's just saying like horrendous things during
Speaker 1: the specter of Aid's like, I don't know, it's it's
Speaker 1: a it is it is a significant sort of little
Speaker 1: locus in queer comedy. I think, So, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it is an honor to have you. You're
Speaker 1: so so you're in town and then are you going
Speaker 1: back to l A after this? I am or do
Speaker 1: you split your time between what l A and No Toronto?
Speaker 1: In Toronto for years and then I went moved back
Speaker 1: to about a year and a half ago, just before
Speaker 1: Trump was elected. I went, oh, it's gonna get a
Speaker 1: hot down there. This is gonna be fun. I think
Speaker 1: I'm needed so like like the Batman's sigle, and went
Speaker 1: out the BC was the BC Buddy called like a
Speaker 1: Martini glass, it's the silver dollar, like yes, yes, So
Speaker 1: now do you think that Buddy has kind of stayed
Speaker 1: the same, Yeah, I mean the whole, the whole one
Speaker 1: of the premises of the show, it's twenty five years,
Speaker 1: it's all about it's twenty three years. It's monologue's written
Speaker 1: from the end of the Kids in the Hall they
Speaker 1: lose refers to the kids in the Hall, which means flood,
Speaker 1: so it's the flood. And then it's afterwards when Buddy
Speaker 1: was like tossed into the wilderness. And so I kept writing,
Speaker 1: and I've always performed. But you know, so they're like
Speaker 1: monologues from nothing's ever been on television. And but the
Speaker 1: whole premises the world changes drastically all the way around him,
Speaker 1: but he doesn't budget inch, you know, and people say,
Speaker 1: how does Buddy change? I got none? Why would have
Speaker 1: perfect character change? That he was actual from the DA
Speaker 1: and even like and also in terms of comedy, like
Speaker 1: it's almost like a hard and fast ruling comedy that
Speaker 1: comic characters don't really change, they don't really learn, and
Speaker 1: that's part of what makes them so joyful to watch,
Speaker 1: because human beings love to see people make the same
Speaker 1: mistakes over and over again. Or with Buddy, they just
Speaker 1: love to see Buddy make the right choice over and
Speaker 1: over again. Yeah, but no, he hasn't. I looked, he
Speaker 1: I look different, but the clothes of the same. You know,
Speaker 1: he still wears the you know he has he found
Speaker 1: a timeless fashion and he's stuck to it. Does smoke
Speaker 1: still know, But there's a point in the show when
Speaker 1: in ninet when Buddy, when Buddy gets by, gets a bar.
Speaker 1: Yeah he stops, but that was back before. But there
Speaker 1: is a period in the show when Buddy takes up
Speaker 1: in Buddy tests negative for AIDS and he decides, well,
Speaker 1: then I'm let's start smoking again. So so I do
Speaker 1: start smoking again the show. Then I then I take
Speaker 1: and then I quit a gain on on stage. Were
Speaker 1: you involved heavily in the Buddy fashions came from you,
Speaker 1: all right, every every single monologue had to have an
Speaker 1: outfit that was kind of a visual equivalent of what
Speaker 1: he was speaking about. So they were always signifiers in
Speaker 1: the outfits. I mean, you know, I tried to basically say,
Speaker 1: you know, the basic shape of Buddy is, you know,
Speaker 1: the pants and the shot no socks, you can't wear socks,
Speaker 1: you know, and and the jacket that's smoking jacket. But
Speaker 1: we we went really far, and maybe in a way
Speaker 1: we kind of went too far in some some of
Speaker 1: the outfits, Like I mean, there was one modeled on
Speaker 1: the girl in the back of export a cigarettes that
Speaker 1: was a great look. And then there was one where
Speaker 1: he had his nipples, kind of the nipples. Nipples. I
Speaker 1: was always looking for an excuse to showcase Buddies. Nipple
Speaker 1: was something I worked very, very careful closely with Hillary Corbett,
Speaker 1: who was our costume designer, and I think the best
Speaker 1: thing we ever made together, what she ever made, was
Speaker 1: the Buddy Cole outfit UM Girls of Summer when he
Speaker 1: when he becomes the coach of the Lesbians UM Softball.
Speaker 1: Once again, there was nipple, but that was a great.
Speaker 1: I mean yes, so we were very involved. And that's
Speaker 1: one of the things I like to do with this show.
Speaker 1: Once we we put it into the shop for a
Speaker 1: few months, I want to give it a bit more
Speaker 1: like I give it some visual excitement. Yeah, it has
Speaker 1: visual excitement, but I would like to I'd like it
Speaker 1: to suddenly change for each monologue, cause there's ten monologues,
Speaker 1: and maybe have little things on the outfit to kind
Speaker 1: of reflect the time around him, because looking at him,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go, what the funk year are we act
Speaker 1: It's like it's it's it's it's the year timeless, but
Speaker 1: isn't itzy? Because I was watching a bunch of them
Speaker 1: again today and I was just like, you could see
Speaker 1: guys like thinking nothing of it wearing these things. The
Speaker 1: style really does hold up. And also just like the
Speaker 1: kind of like camp of it, like the monolog that
Speaker 1: you did in the cemetery and you have to sort
Speaker 1: of vampiric, the incredible hair, incredible and you look just
Speaker 1: like an actress. And I can't any actress like I
Speaker 1: want to say Catherine Howard, that's wrong, but like, but
Speaker 1: like there's another actress that's like, let's say miss pola,
Speaker 1: but just the hair, the moment, the cape moment, like
Speaker 1: the open thing. I've lived for it. Well, when you
Speaker 1: say that Buddy is timeless, is unchanging as constant, how
Speaker 1: does that square with the way that you know you
Speaker 1: change as a human being? Like is that? I don't know?
Speaker 1: How does that negotiator? How do I have to I
Speaker 1: have to separate the two, like I I've got to
Speaker 1: make sure that I don't inject too much into him.
Speaker 1: I mean, of course it's it's it's a part of me,
Speaker 1: but you know, I don't want There's things that Buddy
Speaker 1: might say that I might go I don't really agree
Speaker 1: with that, but it's a character. I have to let
Speaker 1: the characters breathe. I have to let him say what
Speaker 1: he has to say. And I know that I write
Speaker 1: what he says. But there is a part of my
Speaker 1: brain when I'm when I'm Buddy. It's weird. He's like
Speaker 1: smarter than me, you know. So I was watching an
Speaker 1: interview that you did and and reading an interview that
Speaker 1: you did, and you said, you know, he's the smartest
Speaker 1: person in the room, and I was like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: that doesn't feel like vain at all to say this
Speaker 1: is just like an extension of you that and and
Speaker 1: it's almost like, yes, when you allow yourself to write
Speaker 1: a character, it's like these things that you don't even
Speaker 1: that wouldn't even occur to you in life, do occur
Speaker 1: to you. And it does seem like another person that
Speaker 1: is you. Yeah, like and all the roadblocks that that
Speaker 1: that I find in my life and all the ways
Speaker 1: that I, like, um, you know, trip myself up, he
Speaker 1: just doesn't worry about though. I Mean, he's a guy
Speaker 1: that was born in a very very difficult time, born
Speaker 1: into war. Basically my generation is we're like screw screw.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're just we all have PTSD, were just
Speaker 1: But Buddy was born into this kind of like cauldron
Speaker 1: and this effeminate man you know, from the from the country,
Speaker 1: from a rural area. I mean I really know his
Speaker 1: life and then to but he knew who he was
Speaker 1: from day one. He was never in the closet, you know,
Speaker 1: he just he emerged fully formed and no matter what
Speaker 1: happened to him, no matter what kind of bullshit people
Speaker 1: through at him, he was always like it just water
Speaker 1: off a duck survived. He's he's a survivor. He's absolutely
Speaker 1: resilient and there's nothing that really will stop him and
Speaker 1: he and that's that he's like the best of me.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, And he earned that and proxy earned
Speaker 1: being able to really say whatever it is. That's the
Speaker 1: thing right now, Like I was saying to Robin my direct,
Speaker 1: we're always he's always saying to me, You're gonna get
Speaker 1: in trouble, Like when is when are the s j
Speaker 1: w is gonna come after you? Because my show is
Speaker 1: a pull. I mean it, just you. I don't spare anyone,
Speaker 1: and Buddy just tramples in every taboo everything you're not
Speaker 1: supposed to say. And for a white man at my
Speaker 1: age that I'm allowed to say this. No white guys
Speaker 1: can say this anymore. But I'm a gay man, and
Speaker 1: I'm not just a gay man like like you guys.
Speaker 1: I'm an older gay man. So I'm a war survivor.
Speaker 1: Like you look at me and you might go, I
Speaker 1: don't like that, but you go, he's missing a leg.
Speaker 1: You gotta listen to grants. And so it's a kind
Speaker 1: of a for comedy today, which is so tiptoey. Everyone's tiptoey,
Speaker 1: and I just go, oh, I don't care if there's
Speaker 1: quick Sam swimming. But then so when Robin asks you that,
Speaker 1: I mean, is your answer like, well, it doesn't. That's
Speaker 1: besides the point, Like it's not even about Okay, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I kind of want to get it over with, but
Speaker 1: then I might not even have to because people and
Speaker 1: the moment and the thing is, it's a superpowering comedy
Speaker 1: today because everyone's so delicate. And I've I've earned it,
Speaker 1: and it is true. It's like it's just I'm a
Speaker 1: war van. I've earned it. So I don't care if
Speaker 1: you go. You can't say that I just did. And
Speaker 1: it's just a joke. It's just and and it just choke.
Speaker 1: So starting out, when you started out and you really
Speaker 1: were the first you know, gay sketch comedian, well comment,
Speaker 1: there was no one anywhere. So what's the response women
Speaker 1: but not men? Right right, very very different. I totally
Speaker 1: agree with you, not even I totally agree. Now, what's
Speaker 1: the response from other comics when you start to, you know,
Speaker 1: have success in the hall? And I began, yeah it's ugly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And see when I was very young, even before I
Speaker 1: met the kids in the hall, you know, I went
Speaker 1: to acting school. I wanted to be an actor. I
Speaker 1: wanted to be a serious actor and I wanted to
Speaker 1: be funny on talk shows. I never wanted to be
Speaker 1: a comedian. I didn't think it was possible. A front
Speaker 1: comedian talks about his life. I can't talk about my life.
Speaker 1: Who's gonna want to hear it? I mean, I came out.
Speaker 1: I spent my whole life fighting the urge to kill myself,
Speaker 1: basically thinking that I was the worst thing on earth.
Speaker 1: That when I finally had the courage to do it,
Speaker 1: suddenly you're hit by this this plague that tells you
Speaker 1: that everything society says about you is true. So it's
Speaker 1: just a double whammy. So I just thought, I can't.
Speaker 1: And the and the homophobia of the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 1: it was, I mean, you can't. It was breathtaking, and
Speaker 1: I really thought that, oh it's gonna and and this
Speaker 1: is what people have to know, that society can snack,
Speaker 1: can flip back thirty years on a dime. You have
Speaker 1: to be very careful, you mean, things can just switch
Speaker 1: like that. And that's what happened. So I wanted to be.
Speaker 1: I thought I'm gonna be. So I did try to
Speaker 1: do stand up comedy, and I went three times to
Speaker 1: open my um open mics, and you know, I was
Speaker 1: so terrified that I wouldn't even perform as myself. I
Speaker 1: performed as a manny coon who was I actually my
Speaker 1: first character, who's a very masculine man, like a like
Speaker 1: a like a bull, like a big alpha male artist.
Speaker 1: And I talked, you know, in a real masculine way,
Speaker 1: and I drink and I smoke. I really had to
Speaker 1: cover myself up, and even so the comedians could still
Speaker 1: tell that I was getting not went on on stage,
Speaker 1: but backstage before I put on my you know, my
Speaker 1: male mantle, and they were so evil to me. And
Speaker 1: I remember they, you know, they would this is you know,
Speaker 1: they introduced me as they said, our next comedian just
Speaker 1: gave us all a blow job backstage. I wasn't even out,
Speaker 1: so they immediately telegraphed to the audience, this is a faggot.
Speaker 1: And in those days, every comic, every comic had a
Speaker 1: faggy voice that they did. Every stand up club comedian
Speaker 1: would pick if there was a solo male, he always
Speaker 1: became Lance or Bruce, those were the two gay names,
Speaker 1: and they would single him out. And so every show
Speaker 1: is like that. The homophobia was just literally everywhere in
Speaker 1: the audience with the comedians. And then the second time
Speaker 1: I didn't do well. The second time I did a
Speaker 1: little better, and then the third time, this is what happened.
Speaker 1: I the comedian introduced me, and after uh my set,
Speaker 1: he wiped the mic and said, I'm wiping the aids,
Speaker 1: germs all Jesus Christ. And you know what what's crazy
Speaker 1: is I bet at the time you weren't even like
Speaker 1: fuck that. You were just kind of like, well, that's
Speaker 1: what they do, that's what they said. I was both
Speaker 1: because because the thing about you, Scott is that you
Speaker 1: dug your heels even exactly, and because that night that
Speaker 1: was a terrible and that was the last time I'd
Speaker 1: stand up comedy until many years later, and then the
Speaker 1: world changed. But I remember being called a faggot by
Speaker 1: the Someone said shut up, faggot, and I lost it
Speaker 1: and I jumped out off the stage and I knocked
Speaker 1: their beers off and I got into it, and I
Speaker 1: just realized, after these instants, I just can't do the energy.
Speaker 1: There's no possible way I can do this. And I
Speaker 1: just met the kids in the hall and I didn't
Speaker 1: even really know that I was capable of doing characters.
Speaker 1: I thought I was going to be a movie star.
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna do character. But I met them, and
Speaker 1: I thought it was love at first sight, and I
Speaker 1: thought this is my future. And I realized, maybe in
Speaker 1: a subconscious way, that I could bury myself in this
Speaker 1: team like a hockey line up, and I could be
Speaker 1: a great player. But I can only do this in
Speaker 1: a team right now because the world will not accept that.
Speaker 1: And so once I met them, that was it. I
Speaker 1: shut the door on the other side, lovely. Was there
Speaker 1: any sort of I've always been curious, was there any
Speaker 1: sort of thought as too, because I feel like with
Speaker 1: me and Matt, we have this fun little cattery of
Speaker 1: queer comedians now and we're so lucky to have that
Speaker 1: group in that and I'm thrilled for you, you know,
Speaker 1: thank you, but just you too, not the other I
Speaker 1: forgot their names, forgot their name, but it's best. But
Speaker 1: then we we do share space with like a straight
Speaker 1: comedian group, like there is this level of switching up
Speaker 1: our code a little bit where it's like the behaviors change.
Speaker 1: And so was there ever that level with with with
Speaker 1: the kids in the hall where it was at the
Speaker 1: even the kids in the hall, you know, everybody. We're
Speaker 1: all on a journey. People change, not like they just said, yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll bring in. It wasn't like that. It was it
Speaker 1: was a process. So then how would you pitch the
Speaker 1: things like I want to do I want to be
Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth and drag I want to do Buddy Cole,
Speaker 1: I want to be a secretary, you know, like well
Speaker 1: it was it was. It was a gradual thing. The
Speaker 1: first person that wanted me to be a member of
Speaker 1: the group was Mark McKinney. He saw me perform theater
Speaker 1: sports and I and I was like a real wild
Speaker 1: man at the time. I would wear pants suits that
Speaker 1: would be slipped down to here so I behalf naked.
Speaker 1: I'd wear strands of pearls. I glue cigarette butts to
Speaker 1: my ears. I was a weird combination of everything. And
Speaker 1: I was openly gay. That's when three nobody was and
Speaker 1: I just didn't give a ship and they would we
Speaker 1: would do theater sports. I was on the theater sports team,
Speaker 1: and they would always um, if you do it's something
Speaker 1: that they thought was untoward or you know, like too provocative,
Speaker 1: they would give you a zero anytime anything gay came up.
Speaker 1: That was immediately unacceptable. So I was constantly being zeroed
Speaker 1: in all the residents. But they Mark saw that and went, wow,
Speaker 1: that guy's a that's a punk and so um and
Speaker 1: he was punk, yes, and so so he brought me in.
Speaker 1: But they were not The others were not a board,
Speaker 1: and you know, there was a lot of hazing that
Speaker 1: went on. I can just let me just leave it
Speaker 1: at that, and there was some ugly things that occurred.
Speaker 1: But over time and when I basically I gave I
Speaker 1: did Buddy Cole, I did fran I did Manny, and
Speaker 1: I guess they started to realize he's got something. I
Speaker 1: did monologue at the time, but I was very out
Speaker 1: of control. I had no control and I didn't know
Speaker 1: how to be in a group. And then but I
Speaker 1: had a bag of wigs and dresses and they had
Speaker 1: already started to play women, but very differently. But once
Speaker 1: I came aboard that really that really because for me
Speaker 1: it was for them, was a huge deal for me,
Speaker 1: like it's gay man. I'm like, it's natural for me
Speaker 1: to like play a woman play a man. I don't
Speaker 1: see any I just I don't really see the big
Speaker 1: difference of course, half my characters are women. That's going,
Speaker 1: that's natural, and so that that that kind of they
Speaker 1: took that on in a way, and I in a
Speaker 1: strange way are their acceptance of homosexuality and um, cross
Speaker 1: dressing and all the rest of the things that we
Speaker 1: did became a punk thing, a punk thing, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like it became like like a fuck you.
Speaker 1: And and two guys that were so home it was
Speaker 1: like like they would kiss each other and that was
Speaker 1: a really fuck you to two men, to to basic society.
Speaker 1: And so they realized that this was a kind of
Speaker 1: a way to rebel and and so but then once
Speaker 1: I was a boar, it was about six months. One
Speaker 1: night they took me out. They they said, they said
Speaker 1: they made up a song. They sang me a song
Speaker 1: and said you're in the kids in the hall, and
Speaker 1: that was it. And that was it. And I took
Speaker 1: the key, I swallowed it, and known was ever getting
Speaker 1: back in again. And I knew that that was it.
Speaker 1: I was like I was blowing that entrance up because
Speaker 1: I was no one was getting it, and I knew
Speaker 1: this was it for life. And so and we're still
Speaker 1: together and we're still talking a reboot, and you know,
Speaker 1: so it is exciting, exciting, but just the fact that
Speaker 1: you had to be in this proving ground for a
Speaker 1: while is you know, and it it still exists, of course,
Speaker 1: And you know what, I think, there's like, who was
Speaker 1: I just I was just saying yesterday I got on
Speaker 1: the phone because someone wanted to talk to get my
Speaker 1: take on the hand a goad speak situation, and I
Speaker 1: like calling it a situation. It's better than calling it
Speaker 1: a comedy special. Well, it's become this whole thing now
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, I just feel like there's
Speaker 1: there's the special and you can have your thoughts on
Speaker 1: the special. Everyone has their thoughts on the special. But
Speaker 1: then it's so funny to me that like that there's
Speaker 1: this whole thing of like, well, you know, she shouldn't
Speaker 1: even be up there on the stage. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you don't like it, you don't like it, But for
Speaker 1: her to get up there and be able to do
Speaker 1: what she's doing, like, it's harder for her than you
Speaker 1: straight white dudes can ever conceive of it, because you've
Speaker 1: never had to have a second thought about walking into
Speaker 1: a room and taking up all the space as yourself
Speaker 1: whereas there's everyone else in the world, and it's just
Speaker 1: like it's so it's so different, like to walk in
Speaker 1: and have have to filter yourself and it takes such
Speaker 1: a long time. It's just it's such a you know,
Speaker 1: so I'm not surprised to hear that even though these
Speaker 1: guys seem so open minded, it was still a process.
Speaker 1: And because they are their man, they're straight man, their
Speaker 1: products of their time, you know, they could you know,
Speaker 1: you have to let people. Everyone's like on a journey.
Speaker 1: You can't, you know, you know, I mean, people shouldn't
Speaker 1: be judged by the way they were ten years ago.
Speaker 1: For years ago, that's society. And most people just follow
Speaker 1: the you know, what everyone's society tells them to do,
Speaker 1: and they didn't know any better. And and you know,
Speaker 1: but I have not they they we all learned together
Speaker 1: and I had things to learn as well. But I
Speaker 1: think what helped me was I come from a family
Speaker 1: of five boys, so I understood how males behave in
Speaker 1: a in a group, and I know how to I
Speaker 1: guess I'm a fighter, and that was very important. And
Speaker 1: I mean it might not be policuarly correct to say it,
Speaker 1: but I think one of the things that made them
Speaker 1: except me was they knew that if it got into
Speaker 1: a scrap, I could hurt all of them very badly.
Speaker 1: I feel that I could. Oh I think you'd be
Speaker 1: like we would you go ratchy would Yeah? I would. Oh.
Speaker 1: Gay rage once it's unleashed, I'm sorry. Oh, it's the worst.
Speaker 1: It's the worst because it's it's even because these people,
Speaker 1: these people there, they their rage is so close to
Speaker 1: the surface and they love it and they nurture it,
Speaker 1: we bury it. So when it comes roaring up, it's
Speaker 1: like a vein of lab that's come from the center
Speaker 1: of the earth. Their vein of lava is just under
Speaker 1: the surface, like right under Oh look at this piece
Speaker 1: of loan. Look there's that lava right under it, said loan.
Speaker 1: But you know, but I think gay rage is it
Speaker 1: is a terrifying thing. I actually I've been writing characters
Speaker 1: recently again, and what I'm realizing is it's easiest for
Speaker 1: me to operate in a place of anger, and it's
Speaker 1: actually like well not actually know, not any strong emotion.
Speaker 1: Like a few of the things I've been writing lately,
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I can't do these on a set
Speaker 1: together because everyone's screaming, everyone's mad and pissed, and I
Speaker 1: was just like, what is that? I think, what is
Speaker 1: that like? Sort of like I think maybe it's a
Speaker 1: couple of things. It's observing that kind of like very available,
Speaker 1: like masculinity in the world earlier. Absolutely, and I think
Speaker 1: with gay men particularly, I think one of the reasons
Speaker 1: why I've had why I've struggled with my temper and
Speaker 1: why I have such a close relationship to rage, one
Speaker 1: of the things is I made this very terrible connection
Speaker 1: as a child between rage and masculinity, and I felt
Speaker 1: so you know that, I felt so demasculineized that I thought, Wow,
Speaker 1: I can't be a complete faggot because I'm scary to fight. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: which is not a great connection. That's that's that's the MATHO.
Speaker 1: You know what's normalized. You're so insane. This is normalized.
Speaker 1: The thing of screaming at a television set because the
Speaker 1: sports team you do you like, like, that's true, normalize
Speaker 1: normal What a crazy behave? Don't you scream at the
Speaker 1: TV when the raw? Yes? I didn't always do. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you something. I don't care if she deserves
Speaker 1: it or not. If lady Gaga doesn't win this year,
Speaker 1: I'm furious. I want to burn the whole Oscars down.
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga should win Best Act. Have you seen it yet? No, No,
Speaker 1: I've seen the trailer that we're talking about. I'm saying
Speaker 1: it's because I know that she's close to the queer
Speaker 1: and you know what, this isn't another thing. And I
Speaker 1: want to get your take on this too. Did you
Speaker 1: ever find that, like it was almost harder to root
Speaker 1: for the people that were closest to you because the
Speaker 1: spaces that were the SCEs. The more I love someone
Speaker 1: the more the more difficult it is for me to
Speaker 1: tell them that or to praise them, because I was
Speaker 1: raised in a way with my parents that you know
Speaker 1: that it spoils people, that if you get too much praise,
Speaker 1: it will spoil you. And so it's hard for me.
Speaker 1: I've learned. I've tried very hard because I was going
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I think they did a great job.
Speaker 1: I don't want to tell them because I don't get soft.
Speaker 1: I'm specifically talking about gay men though, Oh gay men
Speaker 1: are the worst. I'm just gonna say that a blanket statement.
Speaker 1: We're the worst to each other, just terrible, We've had
Speaker 1: such a good experience because our our our friends in
Speaker 1: the New York queer comedy kind of we're very supportive.
Speaker 1: But then you go on to l a those games
Speaker 1: are not supportive. But I mean, this is the thing.
Speaker 1: I think there are changes happening, but you guys know,
Speaker 1: as gay comics, we still have a ceiling. There's no
Speaker 1: they're not one of us has become a star. There
Speaker 1: has never been a gay mail, openly gay mail comedy star.
Speaker 1: Absolutely ever, there are no no one on Netflix never
Speaker 1: and I and one of the reasons is us because
Speaker 1: we do not support other gay man, not unless they're
Speaker 1: in drag or they're a prostitute, a hustler or porn
Speaker 1: stark hot even whatever, because we worship dumb and hot
Speaker 1: and young. But if your talent, no, because every gay
Speaker 1: man thinks they're a star, right, I'm like, I'm funny too. No,
Speaker 1: you're not bitch, And I didn't mean to say bitch,
Speaker 1: but I just want the favorite word. But I mean,
Speaker 1: but you know, like people people assume they go you're
Speaker 1: you're shows must be filled with gay man. I go
Speaker 1: hardly a couple like I have. You know, I have
Speaker 1: a tiny gay following, but very small. It's overwhelmingly straight people.
Speaker 1: But we don't support ourselves. So how can a community
Speaker 1: that doesn't support, that isn't supported by its community ever
Speaker 1: supposed to reach that level? Like all we do is
Speaker 1: support women, like we just will not go see a
Speaker 1: male gay mail make us laugh, only a woman. And
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of tragic, is you know? It's
Speaker 1: not even a thing of like there's not enough. There's
Speaker 1: not enough support to go around, because the women deserve
Speaker 1: the support that we give them. But also they got
Speaker 1: Scott Scott right, got enough, you know what? You know what, No,
Speaker 1: don't top it up. You're filled to the brim, you
Speaker 1: know what. In fact, I see your meniscus, I see you.
Speaker 1: You know Daddy Zealand we thought she was over, No,
Speaker 1: she was bad. She's bad and good for her. I'm
Speaker 1: just kidding. I did you mentioned this? You mentioned may
Speaker 1: actually one thing before It sounds like I've completely sunk
Speaker 1: into bitterness, which the idea that I am starting to
Speaker 1: see gay man coming. There's always been a few gay men,
Speaker 1: gay men of my generation and below well who followed
Speaker 1: the kids in the hall. But now I'm starting to
Speaker 1: see young ones like you guys that are coming, and
Speaker 1: that thrills me to death because I'm like going, maybe
Speaker 1: they're going, maybe this generation might be able to not
Speaker 1: hate themselves so deeply. I want you to know that
Speaker 1: that it's changing. I I want you to know from me,
Speaker 1: from my heart that it's changing. And I and I know,
Speaker 1: and you know what I mean, Like I love like
Speaker 1: all of our friends, and I think everyone's so talented,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just and that doesn't that's not
Speaker 1: lost on us because we because we have like in
Speaker 1: years past, like come up against that thing where it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're not getting that support it from within our own community.
Speaker 1: But well, I hope, I do hope that now it
Speaker 1: is changing and we'll be told and we'll be told
Speaker 1: things like, well, you know, we couldn't get so and
Speaker 1: so and so we asked this person and they couldn't
Speaker 1: do it, and and you know, then we asked you
Speaker 1: and of course there's only the one spot in this
Speaker 1: cast for one of you, and things like that, and
Speaker 1: people don't understand like what they're really saying, or they
Speaker 1: think that we know it and so they can they can.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's this idea of like you know
Speaker 1: when you do these things, when you set up these situations,
Speaker 1: we go back to each other and we commiserate about
Speaker 1: it and you're actually the joke and it will turn,
Speaker 1: it will it will change. I think that you're right.
Speaker 1: We still have a little bit have that disease of um,
Speaker 1: this this thing of unless unless a gay man is
Speaker 1: in drag, they cannot become a star. No man, no
Speaker 1: one is out there finger waving for I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess James Adman brand are just not. And it's like
Speaker 1: I go, if if Buddy wore a dressed I'd be
Speaker 1: a superstar. Who I mean? And wait, he has, he has,
Speaker 1: he's worn, he's worn. A big caller. Hey, y'all, it's
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Speaker 1: uh live the Bow and Yang CAREV lifestyle. I don't
Speaker 1: know what MAT's doing, Matts Matt's you know what Matt's
Speaker 1: vitamins or our chicken fingers, and he is having a
Speaker 1: blast eating chicken fingers every day. CAREV will eventually expand
Speaker 1: into the chicken finger market. I'm sure now, I okay.
Speaker 1: You mentioned this in a Village Voice interview recently, and
Speaker 1: this I think I agree with you. It's it's real. Well,
Speaker 1: let me just say this. You said, um, I never
Speaker 1: found something along the lines of I never thought that
Speaker 1: I always knew that being the first to do something
Speaker 1: was was never gonna get me the attention or the
Speaker 1: money or whatever. It's it's always the third person. Yeah, seconds,
Speaker 1: the real loser position because third gets the money and
Speaker 1: the attention and the and the and the race first
Speaker 1: is nothing like you know, you look at the Right Brothers.
Speaker 1: There was something before the Right Brothers. There was someone
Speaker 1: that did there's always the way. But at the time,
Speaker 1: maybe when I said that, I was pretending to be
Speaker 1: philosophical about it and pretending that I knew it was
Speaker 1: going to be like that, but I did not. At
Speaker 1: the time, I thought, oh my god, once people get
Speaker 1: a load of what I'm doing, and once the gay
Speaker 1: community sees what I'm doing, I'm my feet are never
Speaker 1: gonna touch the ground. I'm gonna be carried on a
Speaker 1: litter by gay man. Every gay man I want to sleep,
Speaker 1: we will just go what do you want to do
Speaker 1: to me? And they chake my arm. It just didn't happen,
Speaker 1: and it was like such a huge fall from me,
Speaker 1: and it broke my heart, Like I went, not only
Speaker 1: did it not happen, the opposite happened, and that broke
Speaker 1: my heart. In fact, not only did people not support,
Speaker 1: but there was this concerted effort I really believe to
Speaker 1: stop me and and a lot of gay men doing it.
Speaker 1: And that broke my heart. See. But then like just
Speaker 1: I read that quote and I and that that upset
Speaker 1: me in this way where I was like, I want
Speaker 1: to correct I don't have the power or whatever the
Speaker 1: influence to do this, but I want to correct that somehow.
Speaker 1: Like I like we were telling people, we were telling
Speaker 1: our close friends like, oh, you've Scott Thompson on this
Speaker 1: Sunday and they lit up there like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what a huge deal. Like they're like, at least at
Speaker 1: least you always will have I think you should be
Speaker 1: you don't have that respect? Yeah, I think I think
Speaker 1: you can like dine on on that for that. And
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the other thing. It's not like, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't. It's not like I was broke or anything,
Speaker 1: you know. And I've managed worked on television, I've worked
Speaker 1: and I've coppled together a career and I've done whatever
Speaker 1: I had to do. As I thought, why can't I
Speaker 1: go to the next level? And I and I'll be honest,
Speaker 1: there was a period in my life when I was
Speaker 1: consumed by bitterness consumed and then I got sick. Man,
Speaker 1: I went, this isn't killing me. You think it was
Speaker 1: part of it? Absolutely? Wow, I absolutely do so and
Speaker 1: so now and now it's true, like I'm going and
Speaker 1: I meant, but when I was young, and I'm with
Speaker 1: Paul Baldy, who's like, you know, when you're when you're
Speaker 1: an old man, maybe that's when people will get and
Speaker 1: I'm not old yet, but I'm you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: young anymore. But I thought, yeah, maybe I have to wait,
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to wait. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: Now here's another question. It's like, of course there's this
Speaker 1: jealousy aspect. You know, gay men, like I think a
Speaker 1: lot of like what makes us us is, you know,
Speaker 1: we duly look up to women. We look up to
Speaker 1: these actresses and prop stars and glamorous singers and divas
Speaker 1: and icons, and when we see that one of us
Speaker 1: gets close to that, I think, of course there is
Speaker 1: that thing of jealousy. But do you also think that
Speaker 1: a part of it is protection and wanting to be like, well,
Speaker 1: that he's going to tell that story and then everyone's
Speaker 1: gonna think that's all of our stories. Yes. Absolutely, It's
Speaker 1: like I think a lot of the reason many people
Speaker 1: in the gay community did not like me and continue
Speaker 1: did not like me, was that it was a sense
Speaker 1: of like, oh, he's he's spilling secrets, he's telling about
Speaker 1: the darkness, he's you know and everybody and I think that,
Speaker 1: and they're like, how dare he? He's making us look bad?
Speaker 1: And so they didn't. They didn't like that. It's hard
Speaker 1: to have a sense of humor about yourself when you've
Speaker 1: been attacked by I guess like the straight man for
Speaker 1: so long. So then they see like, uh, look, he's
Speaker 1: proving them right, and they because we can't see ourselves
Speaker 1: as these comedic creatures. And I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the reasons I think gay men love female comics so much,
Speaker 1: is because female comics feed our delusion that we're fabulous.
Speaker 1: They'll see all of our dysfunction and our ugliness and go,
Speaker 1: it's so fabulous that they're cheating on each other, How
Speaker 1: fabulous that they overdosed or whatever. And I mean they
Speaker 1: feed our delusion. It's an external validation, yes, and they're all,
Speaker 1: you're all so fabulous boys, Like when pathy my my
Speaker 1: gaze or whatever, it's like, you know what, I mean
Speaker 1: like and and and I don't do that. I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: we're it's screwed up, maybe more screwed up than anywhere.
Speaker 1: And I don't take any prisoners. And I don't spare
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like spare gay people because you know, like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want people to know how screwed up we are,
Speaker 1: because that's not what comedy does. Comedy is about approaching
Speaker 1: the darkness, bringing stuff out into the light and letting
Speaker 1: people look at it. That's the kind of comedy that
Speaker 1: I love. And God's not that scary. So but you
Speaker 1: got I mean, for a gay man in my general
Speaker 1: what the darkness was, it was definitely the nasgool We're
Speaker 1: at the door, like on the list. Look you're not
Speaker 1: on the list. Look. Uh there was this I mentioned this. Uh,
Speaker 1: I mean this might have been when we talked about
Speaker 1: crazy jations on patron But there's this article that came out,
Speaker 1: uh this this right up, this whatever think piece that
Speaker 1: said it's time to forgive the Joy Luck Club And
Speaker 1: it was all about how for twenty five years, the
Speaker 1: Joy Luck Club was the only thing that because Asian
Speaker 1: people turn their backs on it. They were like, this
Speaker 1: does not represent us. This, This is not who we are.
Speaker 1: This is such a specific experience that does not represent
Speaker 1: the entire exactly. And this is the thing about being first,
Speaker 1: or being the only thing that's representative of a community
Speaker 1: or or an experiences that you cannot be saddled with
Speaker 1: all of this expectation and this responsibility, and um, god,
Speaker 1: like it sucks that it just there always has to
Speaker 1: be I'm not saying that this was you, but there
Speaker 1: always has to be that one thing that is the
Speaker 1: pincushion for everyone else's bullshit. Like I think, I think
Speaker 1: that's what we have to sort of get past. And
Speaker 1: like I think in order to write this, like we
Speaker 1: have to just sort of like honor the like the
Speaker 1: like like those things in the past. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: and it's a conscious decision to change that way of thinking,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. This thing that represents you
Speaker 1: is not attacking your killing. It doesn't occupy one space.
Speaker 1: And I think if there's something that's good about like
Speaker 1: the way that the entertainment industry has expanded in social
Speaker 1: media and all these like different kind of spaces, is
Speaker 1: now there is so much room and so many platforms,
Speaker 1: you gotta fill it. With something and and there's only
Speaker 1: so many of these like voices that have filled the
Speaker 1: you know, previously small spaces. And now that's like if
Speaker 1: you want, if you want gay content, there are networks
Speaker 1: for that where that where that is obviously they should
Speaker 1: be on every network. But you know, like it's something
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's it's a mind funck speaking
Speaker 1: of speaking of that, sort of speaking of sort of
Speaker 1: this fox the mind, the mind speaking of content. I
Speaker 1: guess well, we we ask all of our guests this question,
Speaker 1: which is what was the culture that made you say
Speaker 1: culture is for me? Matt? Do you want to explain that?
Speaker 1: The questions? Okay, so this is um, you know, this
Speaker 1: is the It could be a movie, it could be
Speaker 1: a piece of music, could be a particular person in culture,
Speaker 1: or just like you know, just your some own things,
Speaker 1: an upbringing that culturally made you to say, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is who I am. I'm stepping into culture as me
Speaker 1: and it was this defining thing that made me that way?
Speaker 1: You mean, like, what do you mean? I like for
Speaker 1: people that have different kinds of answers to this question,
Speaker 1: For example, on any given deck, it's say growing up
Speaker 1: on Lyle and that really formed me, or I could say, um,
Speaker 1: I really got obsessed with the reality show Survivor and
Speaker 1: that made me the person I am, like whatever things like,
Speaker 1: it's it's a broad question, it's very broad. But even
Speaker 1: like were you even like a Canadian upbringing? For example,
Speaker 1: right y, yeah, yeah, what about you and your Canadian upbringing?
Speaker 1: Was there anything specifically Canadian? Specifically Canadian? It was it
Speaker 1: was Selene for me because it was it was going
Speaker 1: to Notre Dame in in Montreal and being and like
Speaker 1: going on field trips to that church and really it
Speaker 1: affected us to having a teacher well of course, but
Speaker 1: having in Quebec. It was like but on field trips,
Speaker 1: like the teacher would be like this is where Selene
Speaker 1: got married, and we'd be like wow, oh like that
Speaker 1: was that just reminded me of Ada. Seeing here you
Speaker 1: did fucking amazing interview. I had some incredible jokes about that.
Speaker 1: Twink really the first twink, first twink? Really, the first
Speaker 1: twin first? I guess River Phoenix was the first twink.
Speaker 1: Are the first twink in the contemporary man? You know what?
Speaker 1: You can go back through twinks throughout absolutely James Twink
Speaker 1: Cavagio paintings exactly. Hercules and Newt was the first centaur, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, and then David the Finer. Yeah, I guess,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess when I comedy, I would say
Speaker 1: Carol Burnett maybe Flip Wilson. Those were my two totems
Speaker 1: of common footballs made me laugh like crazy. And he
Speaker 1: played Geraldine and he played female and male character. I
Speaker 1: loved him and you connected with that just so with
Speaker 1: Geraldine and Carol Burnett, those are my too. It wasn't
Speaker 1: even stand ups really because I I wasn't. Really I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't have stand up albums or anything like that.
Speaker 1: It wasn't even like a music. It was actually books
Speaker 1: for me, books I get from me. I'm a huge reader.
Speaker 1: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe would have been
Speaker 1: another one Narnia favorite book in the series. Um, Prince
Speaker 1: Caspian okay, yeah, kind of like I think Prince Canspy
Speaker 1: was a first literary twink, Yeah, literary twink power first time,
Speaker 1: Tom Sawyer, Tom Sawyer, Prince Tasman was the first Christian
Speaker 1: allegory right right? Yeah? Who else the twink Huck Finn
Speaker 1: or Tom Sawyer, Tom Sawyer Okay, Tom Sawyer is the
Speaker 1: first piece of white trash. Hot hot white trash, hot
Speaker 1: white trash. Yeah, absolutely hot white trash, hot white trash.
Speaker 1: Didn't j T T play Tom Sawyer, Justin Taylor, Jonathan Taylor,
Speaker 1: Thomas another twink, another nineties twink and Finn. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: tried to sex up the Huckleberry Finn novel. You don't
Speaker 1: need to. It's all there. I got a revisit. I
Speaker 1: reread every couple of years. God, wait, what are your like?
Speaker 1: What are your big revisiting books? I mean, how often
Speaker 1: do you reread something? Not a lot, but that's definitely
Speaker 1: I do go back to the Narnia books, which is
Speaker 1: you know, and I've read Lord of the Rings three times. Um,
Speaker 1: I've read three times a real nerd. So then yeah,
Speaker 1: you love your fantasy, love a science and to see
Speaker 1: the chrysalids like sort of stuff. You're a star Wars queen.
Speaker 1: No see look Skywalker, that's a twink, very much a twink. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I dig aus. I don't like twinks. I found him
Speaker 1: bland for me. It was all but Harrison Ford, you know,
Speaker 1: I always like man like. I was like Liz Taylor,
Speaker 1: I like all my men forty Yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. She's always been forty. He's still forty to
Speaker 1: this day. She liked man at forty when she was twenty.
Speaker 1: She like man that were forty when she was sixty.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm Liz Taylor, but said I love
Speaker 1: that's what you said. Okay, I did say. You said
Speaker 1: say I might say, look look at me. I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't hide my violet eyes. Your oscar for Butterfield Day,
Speaker 1: you brought it with you. Yeah, it's here, it's on
Speaker 1: the table. Everyone knows. Everyone knows. This one's bullshit. It's
Speaker 1: not the one I deserved it for. Oh, you can
Speaker 1: make an argument about that. Turners out there making that argument.
Speaker 1: Interview interview, talk about like a gay icon. That's when
Speaker 1: we forgot. The children are forgotten, Kathleen. Have we need
Speaker 1: to remind them? We do? We do? We need to
Speaker 1: remind them. She reminds you she's also just a a rabbit. People,
Speaker 1: come on, have some respect. Respect. Now. That's interesting that
Speaker 1: you mentioned Philip Wilson, because I feel like, and it's
Speaker 1: interesting that you been forgotten. He's well, yes, that and
Speaker 1: even I don't I would admit that I don't have
Speaker 1: that familiarity with Flip right with Fhip Wilson. But the
Speaker 1: fact that you mentioned the drag aspect and that you
Speaker 1: and that like that goes like you compare that to you,
Speaker 1: maybe the way that the other kids in the hall
Speaker 1: conceived of drag is maybe more of like a Monty Python.
Speaker 1: Maybe you were probably the one to elevate that out
Speaker 1: of this, like, well, yeah, I didn't think if it's
Speaker 1: a caricature. And I think from the day when we
Speaker 1: were like and I don't know if it was really
Speaker 1: me that I think they all kind of when they
Speaker 1: first started doing women, they all wanted to just play
Speaker 1: women as women. And you know, I'd love to claim
Speaker 1: that for myself. And I think maybe maybe helped them
Speaker 1: deep in it, like I helped them in a way
Speaker 1: maybe like let go of that kind of like masculine.
Speaker 1: I gotta like, you know, like a movie like like
Speaker 1: Too Long Food for example, you know, like the way
Speaker 1: that Wesley Snipes telegraphs thes with his guns that remember
Speaker 1: I'm still a man, or like we we didn't want
Speaker 1: any of that telegraphs and we wanted to like completely
Speaker 1: submerge ourselves into our characters. And uh, but definitely I
Speaker 1: think we're not like Monty Python. We are very much
Speaker 1: like Monty Python. But in terms of the portrayal of women,
Speaker 1: we took it further. There were we didn't have screechy voices.
Speaker 1: I mean, they used to do some women that were
Speaker 1: pretty damn real, but most of the women were more
Speaker 1: caricature and um we were. And when we first got
Speaker 1: on television, our our first wardrobe person who did not
Speaker 1: work out all of our female costumes. She tried to
Speaker 1: make them like all like like silly, like big tips, dragging.
Speaker 1: We were like and we were fewer. We're like, no,
Speaker 1: we're not doing it. We go and then she we
Speaker 1: we'd work on something. Oh that's she goes, it's boring
Speaker 1: and looking. Yeah, it's a boring woman. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: not and this is it's a real woman, or it's
Speaker 1: the portrayal women are women aren't fabulous? A woman that
Speaker 1: you would see on the street like oh yeah. And
Speaker 1: that was a profound I mean that was one of
Speaker 1: the greatest journeys that we all took, that journey into
Speaker 1: like gender, like, wow, this is fun. Do you think
Speaker 1: that had you not been on the group, maybe they
Speaker 1: wouldn't have got there. You might not gotten as far.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't have gone as far, because with you, it's
Speaker 1: like secretary sketch. I feel like Bruce was. It was
Speaker 1: a Bruce, you and Bruce and Bruce. Bruce put on
Speaker 1: some sort of feminine affect, which is fine, Like it
Speaker 1: worked for the characters. For you, like you don't you
Speaker 1: didn't really change like Kathy anything. I used my voice.
Speaker 1: I I lightened it a little bit, barely barely, but
Speaker 1: as a secretary, not as like a woman, know what
Speaker 1: I mean. You're playing the secretary, You're not playing a woman.
Speaker 1: And Cathy's not overtly feminine. She's kind of an alpha
Speaker 1: female and she asked the questions. Yeah, but it's true.
Speaker 1: Like but with me and Bruce, the balance each one.
Speaker 1: I think he made me funnier in terms of Cathy's funny,
Speaker 1: but she's she's she's you know, she's not. Bruce's character
Speaker 1: is much more overtly funny. But I think Mike Kathy
Speaker 1: made Bruce is more realistic. And those two they were
Speaker 1: yin and yang, and they really matched each other. And
Speaker 1: but but Mike Kathy came about through him. His Kathy
Speaker 1: was first, and then my cat, I my Kathy came
Speaker 1: after and then that's when the but the secretary is
Speaker 1: actually that's the secretaries were actually kind of born all
Speaker 1: at once in a weird way, because it was in
Speaker 1: the very first piece called which was about turning over,
Speaker 1: and it was the first time all five of us
Speaker 1: were in Dragon. It was a very remarkable moment and
Speaker 1: it was about five secretaries and I don't even think
Speaker 1: and then we took on. They weren't really people yet, right,
Speaker 1: Bruce's was starting to be a person. But I found
Speaker 1: the wig and you guys know it's the Yeah, I
Speaker 1: fell in love with that wig and that and that
Speaker 1: all the character flowed from the way and it was
Speaker 1: this scene about the character. Bruce is like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what's going on? I'm about to turnover? And it was
Speaker 1: like a turnover and it was basically like a clock
Speaker 1: when it goes from like three fifty nine to four,
Speaker 1: and she had at the back of her head and
Speaker 1: then was she turned over and we all were giving
Speaker 1: her birthday party. But I mean, we all came out
Speaker 1: together and we were like seeing each other as women,
Speaker 1: all five of us, and this kind of natural we
Speaker 1: became nicer to it all changed and every all those
Speaker 1: five because there's five women in that secretarialol and those
Speaker 1: were all all the looks were pretty much settled that day.
Speaker 1: They didn't have names yet, but Dave had that red wig,
Speaker 1: and Kevin had that black wig, and Mark Gray that
Speaker 1: that Tanya wig. And I love that Tanya Tanya. She
Speaker 1: is so good the Tana Tania guy for at the
Speaker 1: party and she's trying to get you guys to the
Speaker 1: All that's good. But you know, but but we uh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but see it. But like I don't
Speaker 1: you noticed the candy. I'm not doing anything right. No,
Speaker 1: but and you know what that that's how that woman
Speaker 1: exists in the world. But it's so true because like
Speaker 1: these small shifts that happened just when you put the
Speaker 1: wig I got. I had to do it actually at
Speaker 1: the at the Duplex, no way, not the dupe. Yes,
Speaker 1: I did years ago. Lived and um she she's I
Speaker 1: would get in the full dress and I guess they
Speaker 1: were like go go boots. They weren't even heels. It
Speaker 1: couldn't find anything for me. I had the wig and
Speaker 1: she was like, wow, you really change when you put
Speaker 1: that on, and it was weird. I got very self
Speaker 1: conscious about it because I was five years younger than
Speaker 1: I am now six years younger, and it was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, like am I revealing something about myself? Or
Speaker 1: am I too good at this? Or like and it's
Speaker 1: this thing like I understand, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: where it's like you want to take yourself seriously and
Speaker 1: the world has made you think that you can't be
Speaker 1: serious doing this thing, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of like that. As
Speaker 1: a gay actor, gay performer, gay comedian, I think we
Speaker 1: all kind of like have the same dreams and goals
Speaker 1: as anyone else that's in the entertainment. And should you
Speaker 1: want to have like a mainstream career, you want to
Speaker 1: be mainstreams. So when you find like a niche or
Speaker 1: a or a success or a skill in doing something
Speaker 1: that's historically not that the fact that's drags literally outside
Speaker 1: the mainstream makes fun of the mainstream, yes, you're like,
Speaker 1: oh no, naturally, like what are my real So it
Speaker 1: was this moment of like she was trying to compliment
Speaker 1: me and be like, wow, you're really the character. That's great,
Speaker 1: But it was this thing in my head like the
Speaker 1: gay man inside of me was like, yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: remember the first time I started doing Buddy Cole, I've
Speaker 1: never done I'd never done that gay accent before me. All,
Speaker 1: I think most gay men have gay voices that I
Speaker 1: don't think that's that controversial. I think most of us. No,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I actually don't know except myself. Come on,
Speaker 1: come on, these Jesus great. But you know, when I
Speaker 1: first started doing that, it was the list because I
Speaker 1: I what I thought, Oh, if I start talking like that,
Speaker 1: it'll be the wind will change, and it'll be like
Speaker 1: that for the rest of my life. And I was
Speaker 1: terrified of doing that, like I would never ever imitate
Speaker 1: that because I always thought, well, I've spent my whole
Speaker 1: life trying to pass, and I've spent my whole life
Speaker 1: trying to present his masculine that I can't do that
Speaker 1: because then all of the defenses will fall away and
Speaker 1: I'll be revealed as a shrieking queen. What a fascinating
Speaker 1: experience to like that. We all kind of snare, which
Speaker 1: is to become, be born, grow into yourself, realize that's horrible,
Speaker 1: and then create this other person that you are existing
Speaker 1: that from seven, eight, nine, ten years, which is what
Speaker 1: how long I did, and then have to re establish
Speaker 1: and rEFInd who you are. You should both read. Have
Speaker 1: you read Covering by Kenji Yoshino. He's a yell, he's
Speaker 1: a he's um, he's I guess he's already turned off. No,
Speaker 1: he's a he's a he's a legal scholar. Yell. But
Speaker 1: he wrote this book. That's that's about the stages of
Speaker 1: coming out, of coming out, and then maybe of trying
Speaker 1: to like path of like having his phase where you
Speaker 1: sort of are trying to negotiate whether you want to
Speaker 1: pass or not. And then the final sort of freeing
Speaker 1: moment is I've never gotten to that, but maybe maybe
Speaker 1: I haven't either. I don't know if I'm capable of
Speaker 1: it any longer. Well, I think it's the final moment
Speaker 1: is just about not caring about passive. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think you're saying that you haven't gone that your masculine
Speaker 1: characters aren't quite mad. I know, I think. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've studied men my whole actor. I just I love
Speaker 1: playing those characters, and I thought that maybe society would
Speaker 1: allow me to but they did not. You know, they said, no,
Speaker 1: you're gonna play the newd fag who lives next door,
Speaker 1: who tells the main character how to live or white
Speaker 1: dress to wear, you know, and that's because that's how
Speaker 1: we know you. Yeah, and but you know in terms
Speaker 1: of like I had to because if I had to
Speaker 1: kill everything feminine in me in order to survive in
Speaker 1: a way, and I did, I wasn't very successful at it,
Speaker 1: you know, like I mean, because I just didn't want
Speaker 1: to get beat up. You know, I had four brothers,
Speaker 1: I lived in a lived in like a hockey camp,
Speaker 1: so it was very different. And anyone to be a
Speaker 1: homosexual male at that time was the worst thing that
Speaker 1: a man could be. You were disgusting. I think that's
Speaker 1: that's I think something that people don't um understand is
Speaker 1: that you know, once you realize what you are, and
Speaker 1: you not only like do you get slapped over the
Speaker 1: head with how much society hates it. It's they hate
Speaker 1: it because they're disgusted, you know. They don't hate it
Speaker 1: because it doesn't you know, it's it's not in their
Speaker 1: religious beliefs or whatever about that's a cover. They hate
Speaker 1: it because they're disgusted with the with the with the
Speaker 1: idea behind how we have sex, sodomy, all about sodomy.
Speaker 1: This is what people don't say you can't take that
Speaker 1: out of the equation. And that's why I think we
Speaker 1: kind of went wrong as whole. I mean gay marriage,
Speaker 1: but you can't take sodomy out of it. And that's
Speaker 1: one of the key differences between the way women are
Speaker 1: male gay females and males. They don't engage in so
Speaker 1: oh they can because their sex isn't disgusting, disgusting word disgusting.
Speaker 1: And I think that the gay movement has tried very
Speaker 1: hard to distance ourselves from the from bayically ground zero.
Speaker 1: You cannot. We're going to have to face it the society.
Speaker 1: You have to face We fuck each other in the asshole,
Speaker 1: and you can't dress it up with love winds sodomy
Speaker 1: fucking and I my theory is that sodomy is the
Speaker 1: original sin. This is my this is my this is
Speaker 1: my ted talk. Please the It's the the reason the
Speaker 1: male homosexual is the most I think benighted. And I said,
Speaker 1: benight creature on blighted, benighted, lowest creature on the planet
Speaker 1: is because of sodomy. And it's the ultimate sin. My
Speaker 1: belief in terms of the Bible, in terms of the
Speaker 1: original sin. If you go back to Adam and Eve
Speaker 1: this is my theory about the apple. The apple is
Speaker 1: the anus that when Adam And I'm not saying this
Speaker 1: is a real thing, but in terms of these cultural
Speaker 1: myths and archetypes, here's my theory that I think of
Speaker 1: the Garden of Eden. Back then, they didn't have apples
Speaker 1: like today, they'd be little crab apples. Crab apples, and
Speaker 1: anus looks a little bit like a before before it's
Speaker 1: been trained. And I think that one day and they
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do, God was like, I got
Speaker 1: these needs to they got them in this little zoo.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna enjoy watching. They're never gonna have kids, so
Speaker 1: I can watch. And then one day Heve's bending over
Speaker 1: the water to like, I don't pick up a flower
Speaker 1: to put in her hair, and somehow her cheeks come
Speaker 1: apart and he sees that little anus there and he's
Speaker 1: like mom, and his penis goes up his snake and
Speaker 1: the snake wants that apple, and they he fox her
Speaker 1: and she's one the fuck he fuck, and they discover
Speaker 1: away to have sex without having children, and that makes
Speaker 1: God fear glorious because now he can't control them because
Speaker 1: now they have a way to have sex to give
Speaker 1: each other pleasure without procreation, and that's the original sin.
Speaker 1: So the snake is the cock, the apple is the anus,
Speaker 1: and so sodomy is in our subconscious as the ultimate
Speaker 1: original sin that God has kicked out of the garden
Speaker 1: of Eden. So naturally, the homosexual is the devil, it's
Speaker 1: the snake. Which is why this is a very cynical,
Speaker 1: pessimistic thing to say that. You have to understand that,
Speaker 1: I don't think in our lifetimes where ever, really going
Speaker 1: to get past that completely right. So I've accepted that
Speaker 1: there's always going to be this level of hatred and
Speaker 1: visceral disgust towards the homosexual male. And in order for
Speaker 1: me to have a good life, I have to accept that.
Speaker 1: There's all It's always going to be there, and in
Speaker 1: order for me to to live in this world, I
Speaker 1: have to accept that and find a way to live
Speaker 1: with that and do everything in my power to change it,
Speaker 1: but accept that I can only do so much, and
Speaker 1: that society can only change incrementally. I agree with so,
Speaker 1: and that's why when people say, oh, lesbians, there's lots
Speaker 1: of game, there's lots of lesbian stars, it's not the
Speaker 1: same pretend that gay men and lesbians have the same journey.
Speaker 1: It's not true. And you've said that, uh, for for men,
Speaker 1: for the patriarchy, they view lesbianism as this thing that
Speaker 1: is somewhat more acceptable than gay male homosexually, I think
Speaker 1: much more because because it's like, oh, well, then you're
Speaker 1: after the same thing. They mimic men. So they go
Speaker 1: well in terms of in terms of desire. Right, So
Speaker 1: they go up, they move up the ladder, but a
Speaker 1: gay male falls from his perch and a gay white
Speaker 1: male falls the furthest because suddenly you're supposed to have
Speaker 1: the world and then your your get your it's taken
Speaker 1: away from me. So you plummet, you plummet. And so
Speaker 1: I've accepted that, Like I mean, it sounds like nihilistic
Speaker 1: that I accepted, but I go, I have to live
Speaker 1: my life. I have to. And it's not like I'm not.
Speaker 1: I haven't given up, but I accept that there's going
Speaker 1: to be because also I don't live in a bubble.
Speaker 1: You leave the you leave the West, and you'll see
Speaker 1: what real homophobia. And that's when you go, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is on. This is going to take centuries. Sure, you
Speaker 1: know what's crazy. This might make me sound like a lunatic.
Speaker 1: I believe. I believeause you've been so sane and measured.
Speaker 1: And I think we'll see a lesbian president before we
Speaker 1: see a game mail. Absolutely way more. I totally agree.
Speaker 1: I actually I don't think that anyone will ever allow
Speaker 1: a game mail to love country. No. I just it's
Speaker 1: so interesting because like it's true, it's this thing of
Speaker 1: the disgust factor. And you know, whenever any whenever I'm
Speaker 1: doing Glad brought me back in Winds I will say
Speaker 1: this whenever anyone even mentions the name Eminem. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you have to understand, like the rapper Eminem for the
Speaker 1: listeners to listen when when he dictated in popular culture,
Speaker 1: and he was inescapable, and this is when I was
Speaker 1: like forming as like a so so the most popular musician.
Speaker 1: What people heard in their ears right to the brain
Speaker 1: was Eminem saying gay men are disgusting, disgusting lyrics about him,
Speaker 1: him using the word faggot. And it's the way you
Speaker 1: say faggot when you're a straight man. We can say
Speaker 1: faggot gay straight man, they say faggot and it's it's
Speaker 1: it hurts. And he would use that word and he
Speaker 1: would talk about gays and then follow it up with
Speaker 1: sound effects like and then everyone soaked that in because school.
Speaker 1: And that's honestly tremendous, tremendous amounts of you know, film
Speaker 1: and television shows everything, you know. I was also watching
Speaker 1: that interview with you, and you could you couldn't say
Speaker 1: the word tits, but you could say the word faggot,
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't. They would but beat about tits and
Speaker 1: they wouldn't beat about faggott, which just hates beach. They
Speaker 1: shouldn't to me, they shouldn't bleep out anything yet And
Speaker 1: I agree with you, but if we're going to have
Speaker 1: standards and practices, Wow, is tits hurting anyone? Is faggot
Speaker 1: potentially hurting someone? Yeah, it's different. So this it's like,
Speaker 1: who makes the decisions about this stuff? Who dictates culturally
Speaker 1: what's happening. It's like it has been hard, it's tough,
Speaker 1: and it's only in the past I think three four
Speaker 1: or five years. Three to five years that's when the
Speaker 1: penny something changed three to five years ago. I'm exactly
Speaker 1: sure what it was culture that did it. By something suddenly, Uh,
Speaker 1: we were at the tipping point and I think suddenly
Speaker 1: society went it was like over fifty. It said, you
Speaker 1: know what, that kind of virulent homophobia is not cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and something changed, right, and who knows what it is.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a particular person in pop culture.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was. But now it's like you
Speaker 1: got like this is actually kind of interesting. I'd like
Speaker 1: your take on it. Do you know Troy Savon the
Speaker 1: pop singer song Bloom that he just came out with.
Speaker 1: It's about bottoming. It's about huge pop star. It's a
Speaker 1: big pop song. I Bloom, I Bloom just for you.
Speaker 1: It's it's all about It's like the lyrics leading out
Speaker 1: into the course. She was on Saturday Live as a
Speaker 1: musical guest. He was, He's a major pop star. He's
Speaker 1: a shamellion. His name's Troy Savon. He's actually going to
Speaker 1: be in the new movie with Nicole Kidman called boy Or.
Speaker 1: He's a major star. He's a pop star Twink extraordinaire um. Yes,
Speaker 1: and he is. His his big single right now, it's
Speaker 1: called Bloom. It's about bottoming and he and everyone knows
Speaker 1: that he really He released tweeted about it hashtag bops
Speaker 1: about bottoming, it's it's it's pretty remarkable to me. That's remarkable.
Speaker 1: I mean, actually, I'm I'm gobsmacked. I can't even speak
Speaker 1: great because it's not even about being the top. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: I mean God saying gay men shame each other for body,
Speaker 1: my god, I got so much to show you, the
Speaker 1: mountains and the water, the beagon, just to know it's true. Baby,
Speaker 1: I've been saving this for you. And then the precurse
Speaker 1: is all about how he's like, please hold my hand
Speaker 1: before you for you, Like, what is it hold my
Speaker 1: hand before you go home? My hand? I funk. It's
Speaker 1: kind Now might tell you to take a second, baby,
Speaker 1: slow it down. You shouldn't know. Uh you should know.
Speaker 1: Uh boom bloom. Just so, anyway, that's making me gonna
Speaker 1: make me cry. Right, we're gonna listen to it afterwards,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna have an emotional moment. It's it's, it's,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's wonderful. It's great. And you know what,
Speaker 1: when Troy Someone first came out a few years ago,
Speaker 1: I was like, who the fuck is this guy? No,
Speaker 1: thank you? Was doing that thing of I don't want
Speaker 1: to see another game, dare. But now like I think
Speaker 1: the community at large and we celebrate him. I think
Speaker 1: where everyone's are starting to rally around this guy, like
Speaker 1: oh great, like you know what wonderful to the to
Speaker 1: the credit of some of the other pop stars that
Speaker 1: are featuring him. He's on Ariana Grande Records. He came out.
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift brought him out at her concert. They performed
Speaker 1: my My Mind Together, his other song like you know,
Speaker 1: whatever you think about this popstar, you think about them
Speaker 1: there still it's a fucking bottom pop star. Y'all bottom
Speaker 1: pop star coming out singing about his asshole. I see
Speaker 1: this really shock you shocks me. That's great. Well, actually
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say. Yeah, yeah, I feel like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's I didn't even maybe it won't take two d years,
Speaker 1: right because maybe maybe one one seven days? Well for president,
Speaker 1: I don't know that pop star. But the thing is too,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know what they've always done is this,
Speaker 1: like straight man have always done? What do you mean
Speaker 1: there's no gay? What about Elton John? It's like okay,
Speaker 1: but like he wasn't singing. John was closeted when I
Speaker 1: I was young. No, he got married, he didn't come
Speaker 1: up to he was an old man, not an old man,
Speaker 1: but he didn't know he No. I mean if Freddie
Speaker 1: Mercury was in the closet and then about he wasn't gay,
Speaker 1: But I just played with gay Mick Jagger wasn't gay.
Speaker 1: They might have sucked one cock, deal e two pussies.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make me straight. No, oh yeah, at least yesterday. No,
Speaker 1: I did know what. I had sex with women, but
Speaker 1: when I was no, the woman never accused me of
Speaker 1: being straight. The furthest I ever went with a woman
Speaker 1: is with two girls who actually knew that I was gay,
Speaker 1: and then at the same time, at the same time,
Speaker 1: good for you know, bick work. But the thing is
Speaker 1: we you know, would you do touch titties? Bleep that out?
Speaker 1: You can't say test us um oh mean, Sarah Jessica Parker,
Speaker 1: you just dropped the j. We're done with the JAP
Speaker 1: said she was now Sarah Parker. I would rise to
Speaker 1: my favor. I would say, yes, honey, honey. If she
Speaker 1: announced that at a Cynthia Nixon event, I was, oh god,
Speaker 1: she might win, might win. That's what she needs to do.
Speaker 1: You have to come out and say, my name is
Speaker 1: Sarah Parker. What everyone's gonna be like, what, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: will come out. She's like, I'm Kim Jessica rall, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, that's where the j went. She took it.
Speaker 1: Kim found it, she took it, she absorbed it. I
Speaker 1: knit her pussy all the easy. There you go, Sarah
Speaker 1: a bitch, Sarah's jay. Where's Sara's j? You know? What's
Speaker 1: her face? Kristen David was like, I'm here. Two guys,
Speaker 1: They're like, what was that? The wind was that woman
Speaker 1: with two names get lost too, named loser, Kristen with
Speaker 1: a sibilant's heavy name, very unsung hero of the films.
Speaker 1: I do have to say, I will I will hate
Speaker 1: myself if they don't tell you this to your face.
Speaker 1: I feel like, if they don't, if you are not
Speaker 1: approached by the Crown to portray Elizabeth in her later years,
Speaker 1: that is absolutely my dream, my delusional dream, that I
Speaker 1: will play the Queen from like six, because you do
Speaker 1: you give me Claire Floyd out of anybody else, any
Speaker 1: other act I wouldn't do it. I look just just
Speaker 1: like her. I mean it's the boat structure is yes,
Speaker 1: like I mean, it's and I wouldn't do it. Campy,
Speaker 1: and I've been preparing for this moment. I've actually been
Speaker 1: preparing a queen for the Crown that is a little
Speaker 1: that is more realistic than my queen, which I've been
Speaker 1: watching that show. Well it's great, it's wonderful, and I
Speaker 1: be I mean, I'm upset and I watched I'm actually
Speaker 1: this embarrassing. But I've been watching a lot of old
Speaker 1: footage of Elizabeth, which I would do anyway, just because
Speaker 1: I want because I when I am approached by the
Speaker 1: people of the Crown, we're going to play the older queen.
Speaker 1: I want them to know that I'm going to do
Speaker 1: her honor. And of course we might have to wear
Speaker 1: a lot of like turtle things, you might have to,
Speaker 1: but you know what, I I'll probably make you forget
Speaker 1: Claire Foy. I bet you bet, you bet. You have
Speaker 1: a feeling it might be Miami. You know who we met,
Speaker 1: Um Matthews. He's very good and also very sexual. Energy
Speaker 1: you can do, you can tell, but like which for us,
Speaker 1: we were like, are you he literally one of those
Speaker 1: one of those one of those straight men that is
Speaker 1: so secure that they can flirt with He wants Mickelson
Speaker 1: from Pannibals like that, Yeah, just like he didn't care
Speaker 1: who wants to fund him. It's like, if you want
Speaker 1: to fuck him, that's good, sort of infuriating. I think
Speaker 1: I was wearing something and he goes to me like
Speaker 1: it suits you, and I was like flooded bedroom eyes
Speaker 1: at both of us. Well, you know, he's he's got
Speaker 1: like he's got sexual energies. And I think it's interesting because,
Speaker 1: I mean, I really love the way their relationship is portrayed,
Speaker 1: because they really get to the cardinal center of Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: And I've always actually almost all my characters are pretty carnal,
Speaker 1: but she's You always knew that woman was getting Roger regularly,
Speaker 1: you know, I think so. And she made it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think she made it very clear from her hat
Speaker 1: selection and her clothing choices that she liked a little
Speaker 1: it a little rough. I think she made it very
Speaker 1: clear by a yellow hat she wore an ascot in
Speaker 1: nineteen that told us she liked it, and she liked
Speaker 1: it when he pulled her hair. That was a one
Speaker 1: in Westminster Abbey. And I remember going that brooch says
Speaker 1: you like your you like nipple clam But I and
Speaker 1: I don't know how kinky they got but to sustain
Speaker 1: and married that he was screwing around, but she could
Speaker 1: not screw around. But I think she knew what she
Speaker 1: was getting. She got a big Greek stud and she
Speaker 1: you could tell she wanted them, and he made it
Speaker 1: and he she said, you just got to give it
Speaker 1: to me regularly and I'll be fine. And um, and
Speaker 1: I like the way they portray their love affair. They
Speaker 1: portrayed that whole you knew, you know that Philip, he
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly be Why would could He wouldn't be loyal? Ever, No,
Speaker 1: of course not. But I think she knew. But I
Speaker 1: think you know, now I'm thinking about who is going
Speaker 1: to be my Philip when I play. I think they're
Speaker 1: gonna get Um, this is a difficult question someone with
Speaker 1: a sharp No, who's playing Philip? Now? Who's playing Philip
Speaker 1: in Olivia Coleman. I don't know if they that they
Speaker 1: probably have. I just you know, miss Helena is playing
Speaker 1: Helena is playing Margaret. Yeah, he is playing Margaret. That's
Speaker 1: a good choice. It is good, whacky, but I think
Speaker 1: Helena resembles Claire Foy more. Yeah, the facial structure, I
Speaker 1: think she might have to have her her jawline smashed
Speaker 1: and rearrange. We might have to get fancial reconstruction surgery.
Speaker 1: I think that Helena can't play Elizabeth because her instincts
Speaker 1: are too quirky and wacky. Totally she can't play. But
Speaker 1: I'm just saying in terms of resemblance. And then Olivia
Speaker 1: looks like, uh, what's her face? Um? Uh, Kirby, would
Speaker 1: it be wrong for Liam Needson to be my Philip? No?
Speaker 1: I would Leah would? That would be amazing, That wouldn't
Speaker 1: be against the law. I'm trying to think of someone
Speaker 1: with a gone to face, gone to face right right,
Speaker 1: someone like that's a good Oh god her maybe like
Speaker 1: a not like a column. First I was going to say,
Speaker 1: like a Pierce Brosnan, but he's not gone. What am
Speaker 1: I saying? Also? Okay, no, let's go with Liam. Liam
Speaker 1: is a great Philip to you. I think he'd be good.
Speaker 1: I think we good to go. But it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: as long as you're as long as you're Elizabeth. As
Speaker 1: long as you're Elizabeth, that is all I want. You
Speaker 1: have the windsor face. I remember, It's true like I
Speaker 1: grew up in a you know, I grew up in
Speaker 1: a large family I grew up in. My mother was
Speaker 1: a very big monarchist, and you know in Canada, you
Speaker 1: know what it's like. I mean, she literally is. She's
Speaker 1: the rule of cat, She's on our money, she's our monarch,
Speaker 1: she's queen. And I can't help but I feel love
Speaker 1: for and I know when she died, I'm not working
Speaker 1: that day. That's it. Oh the whole economy of the
Speaker 1: UK is going to shut down for a sweet It's
Speaker 1: just really, it's just not gonna happen. It will take
Speaker 1: me a while to get over. You care about the weddings. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's miss Markle. She's acceptable. She's still breath of fresh air,
Speaker 1: yes exactly. But I don't know what we're talking about
Speaker 1: with Queen. I'm just saying that you you must play.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And it's funny because I and so I
Speaker 1: grew up in this family where my mother would have
Speaker 1: a picture of her family, had a family in the
Speaker 1: foyer like our was small, and then a huge picture
Speaker 1: of the royal family. And and this whole time, people
Speaker 1: would the kids in the hall Mark particularly would say
Speaker 1: you look like the Queen. I don't know. And so
Speaker 1: Mark wrote this piece called It's a fact, which was
Speaker 1: about this little red haired girl that runs into the camera. Boo,
Speaker 1: it's a fact. And they would do these crazy little
Speaker 1: fact things and Mark said, it's the fact. The first
Speaker 1: one was it's a fact the Queen doesn't know her
Speaker 1: A b c's so a b C d X seven
Speaker 1: eleven Chesterfield coat and it would be all like and
Speaker 1: so they said. So they made me as the Queen
Speaker 1: was a one off, and I went into the makeup
Speaker 1: with Judy and Jerry are are are makeup and hair
Speaker 1: wizards and they Judy Jerry was making me up and
Speaker 1: she was like, what's happening. She was she didn't have
Speaker 1: to do and she said, I don't have to do
Speaker 1: that much. And then Judy came over with the wig
Speaker 1: and they put it on and and and then you know,
Speaker 1: Jerry and Judy like look in the mirror and I
Speaker 1: was like, this is weird. And I mean and Marcos,
Speaker 1: I knew it. I knew it. And I walked out
Speaker 1: of the trail. I'm even getting chills thinking about it
Speaker 1: because it was such I remember the moment so clearly,
Speaker 1: and everybody looked and we went and I remember the
Speaker 1: crew looking and going it's too much and I never
Speaker 1: even practiced my voice. I never has a lot of
Speaker 1: the kids in the hall. It came about as we
Speaker 1: were getting made up. We didn't we wouldn't even know
Speaker 1: how we were going to play anything. And I remember
Speaker 1: the voice came instantly and I went hello, and I
Speaker 1: just started waving to people and I instantly became her,
Speaker 1: and it was it was a trans immaculate conception. It
Speaker 1: was a transformative moment. And I went, I have her
Speaker 1: bone structure. Yeah, I looked like the Lost Windsor. And
Speaker 1: I remember we had did a little piece and then
Speaker 1: we had some extra time. This net almost never happened.
Speaker 1: We were it was on a film shoot, one of
Speaker 1: our our film shoots, and then we improvised this whole
Speaker 1: piece that came out of nowhere, which is where the
Speaker 1: Queen walks the little red haired girl off the end
Speaker 1: of a dock, gives her a bunch of stones, says
Speaker 1: jump out, there's guild at the bottom. And I was
Speaker 1: trying to drown her because the Queen always drowned redheads
Speaker 1: because they were bad luck. Oh my god, I didn't know,
Speaker 1: and it was all improvised. It it became the credit,
Speaker 1: the closing credit sequence, and then from then on I
Speaker 1: was off and running. So you know, it's and it's
Speaker 1: the only celebrity imperson impression. It's the only one. Here's
Speaker 1: something I pulled from, Like the Edward thing. Was that
Speaker 1: a real rumor that he was gay? Oh? God, yes, yes, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with the scandal that would erupt if
Speaker 1: one of the royal family was gay, Like what that
Speaker 1: must feel like? Well, it couldn't have happened, you know, um, oh,
Speaker 1: there was lots of room. He worked for Andrew Lloyd
Speaker 1: Weber or was it? Or who was not? Was I
Speaker 1: don't know this someone like that? No, he wasn't gay,
Speaker 1: some mus cool guy that I have been sometimes someone
Speaker 1: I don't remember because it must have been there. But
Speaker 1: you know, no, they couldn't. He could not have been Gettan,
Speaker 1: but I who knows what he is? I don't know.
Speaker 1: But that was absolutely Yeah. Yeah, that that reality If
Speaker 1: that's true, though, that reality of any royal family ever
Speaker 1: realizing that about them, that's going to happen, of course. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean once we as soon as we get a
Speaker 1: lesbian president, we are going to get a gay member
Speaker 1: of the family. Yeah, I mean they're already there. But
Speaker 1: they'll be they are already there. Oh yeah, I can't
Speaker 1: even think about that anyway. Should we move on? We
Speaker 1: should move on to I don't think so, honey. This
Speaker 1: is our segment where we take one minute to rail
Speaker 1: against something in pop culture that's just we hate it.
Speaker 1: We hate it, we need to talk about it passionately.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna see us do it, okay, and then
Speaker 1: we'll ask you to do one as well on on
Speaker 1: the topic of your of your tuesding OKAYT Thompson's gonna
Speaker 1: do it. I don't think so. Now, do you have
Speaker 1: one that you want to do or should I go?
Speaker 1: You should go? You should go? Um, this is Matt Rodgers.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't know where this one's
Speaker 1: gonna go. I'm just gonna leave with my heart. His
Speaker 1: time starts now. I don't think so, honey. People at
Speaker 1: the bar who get their drink and still stand at
Speaker 1: the bar so that no one else can get there.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you something. It's it's you straight because
Speaker 1: it doesn't really happen at the gay bar, because we
Speaker 1: have some sense. And also you want to go off
Speaker 1: and talk to people. Straight people are so boring. You
Speaker 1: have nothing more to do than create drama by standing
Speaker 1: at the bar. I'm at Northern Territory yesterday in green
Speaker 1: Point it was a zoo. It was just and not
Speaker 1: because it was crowded. It was a zoo because it
Speaker 1: was animal behavior. And it's animal like behavior. It's not
Speaker 1: dignified to get your cocktail and stay there, move out
Speaker 1: of the way. Terence says, I need to name picked
Speaker 1: because I need to order a drink and I can't
Speaker 1: do it from back here. And you guess who else
Speaker 1: you're pissing off? The fun bartender who's busting their ass,
Speaker 1: who also wants to get a new piece of client
Speaker 1: ass right there up at the bar so she can
Speaker 1: have a new drink roll through. This is a system, honey,
Speaker 1: And if you're not ready to operate in the system,
Speaker 1: you're not ready to be in this establishment. I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey. And that's one minute. Wow, you are
Speaker 1: raising your fist. A new piece of client robbin is down,
Speaker 1: well done. You gotta cycle out, okay, yeah yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah yeah. Neither you can say nothing because
Speaker 1: you know him right. Uh what does cycle cycle out? Like?
Speaker 1: Just like? Hi, can I get a gennic I get it.
Speaker 1: We do the transaction. I cycle out, honey, I turn around,
Speaker 1: and I walk my ask to another part of the bar.
Speaker 1: That's how that works. So the to the homo behind me,
Speaker 1: A me can go up there in order a drink.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do one. I'm gonna doing that might be
Speaker 1: a little liptal controversial, but it's about the John McCaine
Speaker 1: related All right, here we go. This is Bellen yangs.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey, And as time starts now,
Speaker 1: I don't so, honey. People distributing this fucking clip of
Speaker 1: John McCain shooting down that crazy old lady at his
Speaker 1: rally for colling Obama an Arab, and his whole rebuttal
Speaker 1: is no, he's a decent man who we just happened
Speaker 1: to disagree. I mean, yes, that was an okay response.
Speaker 1: But people are lionizing this in this way that is
Speaker 1: that is just trying to like, uh, lion eyes the
Speaker 1: bare fucking minimum. First of all, the implication I remember
Speaker 1: so clearly this day in two thousand and eight, I
Speaker 1: watched Matter that night. She made a joke about how
Speaker 1: while an Arab, an Arabic person and a decent family
Speaker 1: man would never intersecting the same person, right, like yeah,
Speaker 1: Like that's the implication. It's shitty, Like John McCain is whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm not one of these people who's dancing on his grave.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, let's go through different things in the
Speaker 1: highlight reel and say this is like he in terms
Speaker 1: of policy, he pushed this through. Why go why focus
Speaker 1: on this interaction that really just would be the norm
Speaker 1: instead of like heralding it as this gorgeous manner from
Speaker 1: the political gods. And that's one minute. I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think the whole thing is getting blown out of proportion,
Speaker 1: literally on both sides, because because it's like a people
Speaker 1: are I mean, we're a day out. He passed away
Speaker 1: yesterday recording this on the like he like people. Every
Speaker 1: new side is like wow, remember when John McCain did this,
Speaker 1: And I'm like yo. But on the opposite side, I
Speaker 1: think that to insinuate that he's saying no, it's not
Speaker 1: an Arab, he's a good person is also going too far.
Speaker 1: I think that I think it's doing too far. And
Speaker 1: I get that people, you know, come for me or whatever,
Speaker 1: But the thing is he in a moment of this
Speaker 1: woman saying this person is a bad person. There an Arab.
Speaker 1: He in a political moment where everyone was watching, said
Speaker 1: to her, No, this is not he's not a person.
Speaker 1: It's that's the energy. So people acting like him saying
Speaker 1: he's not an Arab, he's a good person. That is
Speaker 1: not what he's saying. And I think on both sides
Speaker 1: we need to cool it. Sure, I'm I'm just saying
Speaker 1: like there's like I'm trying to pull attention backwards, like
Speaker 1: everyone's building this thing up. I think that there's I
Speaker 1: think it's so unfortunate that we're fixating on this clip
Speaker 1: as his lifelong life was, like you see, when there's
Speaker 1: other things. That's what I'm saying, sexation on the clip,
Speaker 1: and I'm saying it's not that remarkable. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: good that he shot her down, but I'm saying, like,
Speaker 1: like fine gold McCain, like talk about the things that
Speaker 1: he did in his political life and not just this
Speaker 1: interaction that he had with a crazy I think they
Speaker 1: should have focused on how gorgeous he was when he
Speaker 1: was when he was folks. Truly, I mean, let's bring
Speaker 1: it back to what's really important. Looks. I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think it's this whole thing of like assuming we
Speaker 1: can have a smarter, intelligent about this one. We're not
Speaker 1: dealing with smart people. We're dealing with Americans. Oh sorry, bitch,
Speaker 1: we kept quiet, We kept quiet, continue to keep quiet. Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: this is Scott Thompson's I don't think so, honey. No,
Speaker 1: I mean no, because I don't really, because god, this
Speaker 1: is this is okay, you know what, Well, I just
Speaker 1: say a few things that I wanted. I've had such
Speaker 1: a good time and I feel like this might derail
Speaker 1: me because I mean, I know what I want to
Speaker 1: talk about. I know it's going to be controversial. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: you'd rather save it for tonight when you're going to say, so,
Speaker 1: this is historical. We've never had a guest decline which
Speaker 1: we're which no, no, no, no, it's honorable. It's honorable.
Speaker 1: You think that the only exactly it's an honorable thing
Speaker 1: for me to not do that. I think you respect
Speaker 1: for Scott my rules. Who the hell am I some
Speaker 1: stupid queer? I think I think I said no, no,
Speaker 1: Scott Thompson. I think that's punk rock is what a trailblazer? Truly,
Speaker 1: I'm not even I'm not even being facetious like this is.
Speaker 1: We will honor this like, but I will say, any
Speaker 1: other guests would be like, no, you have to know
Speaker 1: any other guest that comes on here and said they
Speaker 1: don't want to do one yourself yourself, you're not you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, of course I railed about other things, and
Speaker 1: and this is, this is a thing where the first
Speaker 1: person gets all the attention, you know, not the second,
Speaker 1: not the third. There will never be a second or
Speaker 1: a third. It's only Scott Thompson. You know what, what
Speaker 1: what is it you say? I don't think, honey. You
Speaker 1: know what, honey, I don't think. Here's what I hate.
Speaker 1: Is you going a podcast and the host ask you, well,
Speaker 1: they do a bit that they always do all the
Speaker 1: time and it really works, and everybody that comes on
Speaker 1: our show does it, so you're going to do it.
Speaker 1: I hate that, you know what. I don't want to
Speaker 1: do your stupid bit. Honey. Okay, it might work for you,
Speaker 1: but it ain't working from me. Okay. You know what,
Speaker 1: here's the thing for you. One hour, twenty three minutes
Speaker 1: and two seconds, and now you're asking me to do
Speaker 1: something that you guys have been working on for months
Speaker 1: and months and months You've worked all the bugs out
Speaker 1: and now you're gonna throw me under the bus with
Speaker 1: your bit. I don't think so. I guess what, bitch,
Speaker 1: you just fell on the trap because you just did
Speaker 1: it and it was and that's the new generation coming
Speaker 1: up throughout some moneing you and out of winning you
Speaker 1: damn spark up. I do not count that as and
Speaker 1: I don't think so many because I want this to
Speaker 1: be canon. Scott Thompson did not want to do one,
Speaker 1: and we we honored that times up, times up, our time,
Speaker 1: our our time is up. I mean no, I'm just
Speaker 1: saying times up because it's a good thing, because it's
Speaker 1: a good thing to say. Wow. I mean this was
Speaker 1: very meaning. This it was greatable, truly tally wonderful. M's
Speaker 1: more fun than I thought I would have likely when
Speaker 1: you get that well, when you're called I mean, I
Speaker 1: knew you were fun, but I did when you called
Speaker 1: me honorable, like, oh it's going to be an honorable.
Speaker 1: That was a bad choice of words on my part
Speaker 1: that yeah, you fucking suck, sucked, I hate you, Bowen,
Speaker 1: You're bad. That was bad words. So it's just our
Speaker 1: way of of just blowing snoke up all of our asset. Okay, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1: The first two minutes of this part us really was that.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I'm happy I didn't have
Speaker 1: to grow up with you, because I would have been
Speaker 1: really overwhelmed. It's like a stupid twink, so disingenuous. I
Speaker 1: got aging twink the other day and I was like,
Speaker 1: you go, yeah, that's no no, but wait, that's the
Speaker 1: best kind of twink. Aging twink. Okay, yeah, I gotta
Speaker 1: love myself right, you'd suck me right? Thank you gorgeous.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. If you have advice for if you have
Speaker 1: tips for Joe to to love his best life, let
Speaker 1: us know you that letter separator is it's something, it's
Speaker 1: working for someone, it's working for much. Check out Joyott's
Speaker 1: album Not a Fan, the release of the book Buddy Babylon,
Speaker 1: and uh, next time he's in New York, please check
Speaker 1: him out if he's doing a deluge Againe Scott, thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Thank you very much. Here we go.
Speaker 1: What good was one of us Sunday just as Love
Speaker 1: Love Snob. I think in Austin Powers it was slabs
Speaker 1: like Whatever's by Dog. This has been a Forever Dog production.
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Brett Boham, Joe Cilio, and Alex Ramsey.
Speaker 1: For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot
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