1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: A warning. This episode contains language and depictions of violence 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: that may be disturbing to some listeners. I didn't kill 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: anybody doing the ride. Should they have convicted them based 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: upon what they had in the manner in which they 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: did it? No, that's old the judge right before I 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: was sensors dead, I said, this is not over, man, 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: this is not over. I've meant that. I have seen 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: with my own eyes. I've read the documents. It's just 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: reeks of wrongdoing. I had this recurrent dream. Then I'm 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: in this little complicated place as a crawl up to 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: least little real tight spaces. Sometimes I'm upside. I didn't 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: explain it to you, but I know my way out 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: of that. But did they help me. I'm gonna get 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: out of this. They never thought they thought I was 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: gonna kip what they thought was my back on myself. 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: Bro good back. Because we're all about me, every five 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: might be en. I believe that I get my life back. 18 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: When I set out to find a story for our 19 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: second season, I have to be honest. I struggled. Finding 20 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: a worthy follow up to Melissa and Rodney proved to 21 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: be really hard. Then I spoke with the senior producer 22 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: at Jason Flam's podcast Wrongful Conviction, and he told me 23 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: about Keith Lamar. Keith Lamar is currently sitting on death 24 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: row in Ohio for crimes that happened during the n 25 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: Lucasville Uprising, one of the longest and deadliest prison riots 26 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: in US history. Keith's execution date is set for November. 27 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: He says he's innocent. I was interested in Keith's case, 28 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: and maybe because, as it turns out, I have a 29 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: small personal connection to this story too. In April, when 30 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: the riot broke out, I was a senior at Ohio 31 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: State majoring in broadcast journalism and doing an internship at 32 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: w BNS, the CBS affiliate in Columbus. As a budding journalist, 33 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: I needed to somehow get to that prison in Lucasville, 34 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,279 Speaker 1: just so that I could witness it, any of it firsthand. 35 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: So I begged those in charge to let me go, 36 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 1: to help, to do whatever anything they needed. Eventually they 37 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: gave in. I do remember it was late that night 38 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: we arrived. The air was cool, it was strangely silent. 39 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: I was a little scared. I remember wondering what in 40 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: the world was going on behind those prison walls. I 41 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: wanted to know more so now, almost thirty years late, 42 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: or that's what I'm setting out to do in an 43 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: effort to find out why Keith Lamar was convicted and 44 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: sent to death row. I need to know what happened 45 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: during those eleven days in which ten people were brutally murdered. 46 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: And while the Uprising is only going to be a 47 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: small part of the podcast, it's crucial. It's crucial in 48 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: order to understand why the State of Ohio is about 49 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: to execute him. But what I learned is it's not 50 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: that simple, because somewhere along the way, my reinvestigation of 51 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: Keith's case evolves into something far more personal. I have 52 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: never been more frightened, angered, inspired, challenged, conflicted and consumed 53 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: than I am by Keith and his story. Maybe because 54 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: of what I uncover, or maybe because the stakes couldn't 55 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: be higher. I'm Leah Rothman. This is the Real Killer, 56 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: Episode one, The Uprising fright top story of full scale 57 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: riot at Ohio's maximum security prison name Lucasville Alliance of 58 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: Eight Guard It's April eleventh, Easter Sunday. Inmates at the 59 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: Southern Ohio Correctional Facility celebrate the Holy Day with an 60 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,239 Speaker 1: ambush at three fifteen. Convicts returning from an exercise yard 61 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: stage of fight then jump corrections officers and sees control 62 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: of Cell Block L. Cincinnati news station WCPO reports cell 63 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: Block L is under siege. It's one of two main 64 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: housing wings at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility, most called 65 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: the Maximum Security Prison Lucasville after the small rural town 66 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: where it's located. Columbus news station w s y X 67 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: is covering the breaking news from the sky. Here are 68 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: two of their reporters. We are applying above it right 69 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: now and think having way down to the scene, there 70 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: was some kind of uprising portly every three o'clock there, 71 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: and we will be throughout the easing development. Just a 72 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: few hours before, twenty three year old corrections officer Darryl Clark, 73 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: a married father of two young girls, clocks in and 74 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: starts his shift. Today something is very different. It was quiet, 75 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: very eerie quiet, and it's never that quiet. Then in 76 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: a flash, that quiet turns to chaos when trun down, 77 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: always another ulster being beaten down. About four hundred and 78 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: fifty prisoners have taken over L Block and the adjoining 79 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: gymnasium um. Daryld and his partner, armed only with nightsticks, 80 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: are in serious retreat mode. We both rand to make 81 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: it to the back stair. I will from that stairwell. 82 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: Daryld and his partner radio for help, but no help 83 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: ever comes. Instead, inmates armed with weapons like white bars, dumbbells, bats, 84 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: and shovels closed in on them. It looked like a 85 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: hundred um all with their face masked up. They started 86 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: banging on door. The we're gonna show you what we did. 87 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: They went around with the white bars and they busted 88 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: all to the wall right where we sat, and they 89 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: hit four or five hits from the door. The dead 90 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: boat was folded that metal like a piece of bread. 91 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: And the door opened up and they all came in 92 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: and the certain and mate looked at us said, you're 93 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: our hostages. While all hell is breaking loose at the prison, 94 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: Lucasville's Warden, Arthur Tate, is about to sit down for 95 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: Easter dinner at a friend's home a couple of hours away. 96 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: I remember that the Master's golf tournament was on and 97 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: I was watching a little bit of that, and a 98 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: call came in from a former employee of mine at Chillicothe. 99 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: I got We didn't know cell phones back in those days. 100 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: This was in you know, before Lucasville. Arthur Tait was 101 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: first a social worker, than an FBI agent, and finally 102 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: the warden at Chillicothe Correctional Institution. And she said to me, 103 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on, but they have activated 104 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: the special response team at Chillicothe and sent them to Lucasville. 105 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: And I thought, what So I got on the phone 106 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: and called the facility. The line was busy, Line was busy, 107 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: line was busy, line was busy. So on the fifth 108 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: currents I got ahold of one of my deputies and 109 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: he was almost incoherent. I managed to get from him 110 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: that they were experiencing a major riot insurrection. He said 111 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: that the hostages had been taken, keys had been taken. 112 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: He told me that prisoners were on the roof, they 113 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: were attacking defense that I'm thinking, oh my god. So 114 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: he said, you need to get to the prison right away. 115 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: As Arthur races to Lucasville, Daryld Clark and his partner 116 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: are now under the complete control of their captors. They 117 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: tied us up and took my jacket off of me 118 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: and put it over my head and used telephone cord 119 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: and tied them off blindfold on. And some guy was 120 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: trying to take my wedding ring. He was wanting to 121 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: cut my finger off because he couldn't get off. I 122 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: convinced him gonna let me take it off. Blindfolded and terrified. 123 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: Daryld and his partner are led to the L Block 124 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: showers where the rest of the officers are being held. 125 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: Prisoners are now holding twelve hostages. When I arrived, it 126 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: was a serious situation. That's Colonel Tom Rice, the superintendent 127 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: and thirty three year veteran of the Ohio State Highway Patrol, 128 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: which has jurisdiction and authority over all the prisons in Ohio. 129 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: There were guards that had been taken hostage. We had 130 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: inmates on the inside of L Block and inmates out 131 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: in the yard. My major concern was to secure the 132 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: L Block area, unlocking all the other facility doors, and 133 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: then assigning people outside to the fence to make sure 134 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: there wasn't a mass escape. Everything in Lucasville was changing. 135 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: The number of officers would be changing almost by the 136 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: minute because they were coming in from the north, the east, 137 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: and the West. Eventually we had over three hundred officers 138 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: there and after a short time we got assistance from 139 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: the FBI. The FBI actually brought in they're negotiating teams. 140 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: What Tom and the FBI negotiators don't know is that 141 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: the prisoners broke into the offices and found the official 142 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: prison negotiating manual, the how to in dealing with these 143 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: exact kinds of situations. So actually we were negotiating against 144 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: our own manual. They knew what we were doing or 145 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: what we would be doing. Here's a reporter from w 146 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 1: c PO. It is unknown what triggered this riot, although 147 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: there have been unconfirmed reports that race may have been 148 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: a big issue in this. Although there are serious issues 149 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: of race at Lucasville, the uprising on Easter Sunday is 150 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: not about that. It's in protest, a protest started by 151 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: the Sunni Muslim population against what was secretly scheduled to 152 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: happen the next day, a forced tuberculosis testing Warden Arthur 153 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: Tate had planned a lockdown the prison on Monday for 154 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: three days to force test any prisoner who had previously 155 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: objected to it. The Sunni Muslim prisoners had refused the 156 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: test because the injection contains phenol, which they believe to 157 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: be a form of alcohol, and they say being made 158 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 1: to ingest alcohol is a violation of their religious freedoms. 159 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: Here's Arthur Tate, We're going to have a team of 160 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: people essentially put you on a gurney. If he gets 161 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: to that, and you'll you'll, we'll tell you, We'll get 162 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: this test. Will effect this test one way or another. 163 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: And although this uprising may have started with the Muslim 164 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: prisoners protesting the TB testing, surprisingly to other groups, the 165 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: Black Gangster Disciples and the Arian Brotherhood joined them. They 166 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: agree to put their issues with each other aside and 167 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: come together in solidarity against one common enemy, the prison 168 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: administration and what they claim to be the poor treatment 169 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: of everyone at Lucasfilm. So the Sunni Muslims, the Arian Brotherhood, 170 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: and the Black Gangster Disciples call a truce with each other, 171 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: but for many others inside L Block, it's still a 172 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: war zone. Here's dear old blood of inmates, of the 173 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: ones that they was having beef with. They was used 174 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: hearing people screaming, yelling helped Holland for help, and that 175 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: was going through my mind thinking how how am I 176 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: gonna die, and we're gonna be beaten or cut stub 177 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be rape. What's gonna happen? Guards remain 178 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: hostage inside the Southern Ohio Correctional Institution at Lucasville after 179 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: a full scale riot broke out in one of the 180 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: inmate wings today, while Darrold Clark and eleven other officers 181 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: are fighting to stay alive inside L Block, Tokyo Morgan, 182 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: a prisoner housed in K Block, the other main housing 183 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: wing of the prison, is shocked to learn about all 184 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: the madness happening around him. We was all asleep and 185 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: when everything took his course and everybody was waking up, 186 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: like man, what's going on? Running over? There's something out. 187 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: We look up with a whole bunch of people in 188 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: the yard and that's all you've seen. Basically, it was 189 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: people running around on the yard. You know, I think 190 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: it's a few like smoke. You know, I got a 191 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: set of stuff on fire over the side. It's all 192 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: smoke coming out. Then as you know, people talk about 193 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: man as day and such as day they kill white 194 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: do I mean? People was just just dying right there, 195 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, through the late afternoon and into the evening, 196 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: two corrections officers and one prisoner, all with severe injuries, 197 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: are released. Then later that night, law enforcement spots movement 198 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: out on the yard hard The audio is a bit 199 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: difficult to make out, but what you're about to hear 200 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: are officials in real time counting as prisoners bring several 201 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: bodies outside, counts another one they're dead. Right in front 202 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: of their eyes are the bodies of five dead inmates 203 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: and two critically injured ones. Around eleven PM, prisoners let 204 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: two more officers with severe injuries go free. Eight hostages 205 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: still remain inside. Law enforcement ways whether or not to 206 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: storm the prison, but ultimately decides against it. Here's Colonel 207 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: Tom Rice again. Start out with the fact that you 208 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: really don't know where your hostages are, so if you're 209 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: storming in the wrong in place, by the time you 210 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: get to the hostage, a hostages are already dead and 211 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: you have no idea who killed them. Around two in 212 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: the morning, eleven hours into the uprising, three hundred prisoners 213 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: who have been out on the yard away from the chaos, 214 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: are rounded up by officers and brought inside K Block. 215 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: They are stripped, naked, searched, handcuffed, and locked up again, 216 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: ten prisoners per cell, cells meant to hold just one. 217 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: About six hours later, prison officials make a strategic move. 218 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: They turn off the water and electricity inside l Block. 219 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: So prisoners then make a move of their own. It 220 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: seems that the inmates are trying to get in touch 221 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: with us, the media. They're hanging sheets outside the windows. 222 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: Some of them read the state is not negotiating and 223 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: this administration is blocking the press from speaking to us. 224 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: But the press is there and they're more than ready 225 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: to talk. My name is Michael san Jacomo. I was 226 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: a reporter at the Plain Dealer for about thirty years 227 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: up until my recent retirement. Michael's about to become the 228 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: luckiest reporter at Lucasville, or so he thinks. Prison administrators 229 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: decide to allow one member of the media to speak 230 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: with an inmate by phone. After Michael's business card is 231 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: pulled out of a hat, he gets to go inside. 232 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: So I was walked into the prison and I was 233 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: taken into this very stark room, and I'll never forget this. 234 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: There was a guy in there who looked exactly like 235 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: Spencer Tracy. I mean, he was very intense looking. I said, 236 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: who are you? Because this guy. He just had authority 237 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: coming out of every pore. I mean, this guy wasn't 238 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: charge And he said, you don't need to know that. 239 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: And I said, well, really, I do you know. I'm 240 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: a reporter. I really need to know who you are. 241 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: And he said, I'm not telling you who I am. 242 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: He said, but just trust me. I'm the guy you 243 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: need to listen to. He said, if you fuck this up, 244 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: you will be responsible for killing people. He said, I 245 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: want you to know that if you fuck this up, 246 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: people are gonna die. And I just sat there going, 247 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: oh good. He said, just so be very careful when 248 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: you answer the questions. And he said, and when I 249 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: hang up the phone, and that means you're done. So 250 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: I said, okay, So I sat down. I picked up 251 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: the phone and there was an inmate on the other 252 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: end and all he got to say was who is 253 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: this and identified myself and he started to talk and 254 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: they hung up the phone. They being Spencer Tracy, and 255 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: I said, whoa you know, I didn't even get to 256 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: ask him a question, and he said, okay, that's it 257 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: for now. That's it. Uh, Spencer Tracy explained, he said, 258 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: this is just a tactic. We want to keep them 259 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: like off guard. We want to get something act from 260 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: them now that we let let them know that you 261 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: were available. So that was their bargaining tactic. But the 262 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: prisoners find a way around that. George Skates, a member 263 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: of the Arian Brotherhood, goes out on the yard with 264 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: a bullhorn. He'll become one of the prisoners spokespeople. I 265 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: want you people to understand that, say, don't got eight 266 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: lives the desert about let's get something here? What do 267 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 1: you want to be went at four o'clock for one 268 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: of our negotiators. How can we do for you, George? Well, 269 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: we can start out with the lights, we can start 270 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: out with MS, start out with news media and delivered. 271 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: I can't guarantee you that the new media will even 272 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: talk to you out say how you give me down? 273 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: Can Bob the latest? Jerry? I wish we had more 274 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: facts really to give you, but the facts basically they 275 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: are they have been through the day. That's Bob or 276 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: back in. He was the primary anchor at w b 277 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: n S Channel ten, that same station where I was 278 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: an intern. No electricity, no water, that cut off all utility. 279 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: They're not serving food. They're hoping and maybe that will 280 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: bring about some kind of peaceful length. A forty three 281 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: year veteran of radio and TV, Bob retired in the 282 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: last twenty three years of his career, he spent in Washington, 283 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: d C. As the lead Justice and National Security correspondent 284 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: for CBS News. So when I arrive on Monday, there 285 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: was a substantial media presence, but it was going to 286 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: get much larger. It would rival some of the largest 287 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: continues I ever saw later in my year's covering national 288 00:19:55,040 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: news in Washington. But the prison administration isn't making it 289 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: easy for the press, which is relegated to the other 290 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: side of the prison, to an area that will be 291 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: nicknamed media Hill. Nothing is more frustrating for a reporter 292 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: than to have no access to any kind of sources 293 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: that could give you any kind of objective read as 294 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: to what's going on. I felt like, this is a 295 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: huge story, it's right in front of us, and we 296 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: can't get to it. I don't see why you won't 297 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: let us meet with these from those people. You can't 298 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: trust the media, whine because they're going to broadcast this 299 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: exactly the way it is. But trusting the media does 300 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: become an issue now, very dangerous thing. Happened, and that 301 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: as rumors started to propagate. No listen. So I'm there 302 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: as a reporter, and I'm in a competitive environment where 303 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: I have my other stations in town are also there. 304 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: The national media is there. They think they have a 305 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: story that there might be fifty bodies stacked up in 306 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: the gymnasium. One report said maybe as many as a 307 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty bodies. What do you do with that? 308 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: When your competitors are saying this over and over and over, 309 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: you run the risk of looking like you really are 310 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: way behind or don't know what's going on, and you 311 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: don't have a story. So the only thing I can 312 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: think to do that was responsible was to say, these 313 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: things are being widely reported, we cannot verify it, we 314 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: don't even have any real reason to believe it's true, 315 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: and we're only raising this because it's out there. Even 316 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: that's not perfect. I think a purist would say, uh, 317 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: if you really held to your guns, you wouldn't have 318 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: touched it. Either way, prisoners are frustrated. They want access 319 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: to the press because they want transparency. Here's officer and 320 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: hostage Daryld Clark. I don't know what you call it, 321 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: Stockholm and center or whatever. I could feel their frustration 322 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: because I was part of the negotiations. I was talked 323 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: to negotiators. These guys are doing. Listen to me. I'm 324 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: listening every word. I'm telling you, got to listen. I'm 325 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: listening to Okay, these guys has really sumized. Do you 326 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: understand you to being a food to be given a cloth? 327 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: They been making damp short, no one comes near. We 328 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: had not been touched in no way that you're thinking that. 329 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: That's good. We appreciate that. We wanted to say news 330 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: and at that broadcast and it told Okay, I said, Park, 331 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: we're going to try to get that if you care 332 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: for any of these times the name as created. That 333 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: is our main goal and objective to get every single personality. 334 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: Here's Colonel tom Rice. Our goal was to bide for time, 335 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: and that's what we were doing. We've got the time 336 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,239 Speaker 1: and we're just gonna let this thing run. Here's dear 337 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: Old Clark. During that timeframe, it made me hate administration, 338 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: you know, but I was under a lot of trust 339 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: and pressure to I mean, I'm thinking, I know, I'm 340 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: want to die because even though Darrold is telling negotiators 341 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: his captors have been treating the hostages humanely at times. 342 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: It couldn't be further from the truth. There was one 343 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: time they was trying to write and I was being 344 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: penned another mt CAM and told him said, guys, if 345 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,479 Speaker 1: you do that, they're gonna cut your head off. So 346 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: they got mac as they could write me. So they 347 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: started beating me, and uh, I had my jaw knocked 348 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: out several times. I kept popping at me and they 349 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: would pop it out. That was beating pretty good. Day 350 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 1: four is Wednesday, and it brings new threats. Around nine am, 351 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: prisoners drape another bedsheet outside the window. This time it 352 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: says that if their demands aren't met, like more educational 353 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: opportunities in three and a half hours, one hostage will 354 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: be killed. A prison spokesperson is asked about this. It's 355 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: a standard thread. It's nothing new. We're going to kill 356 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: a hostage. Here's anchor Bob or I'll never forget this. 357 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: Spokesperson kind of downplayed the threat, kind of said, well, 358 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: the prisoners are threatened to kill one of the guards, 359 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: but they always do that kind of thing. This is 360 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: just a ploy. They're they're not going to really do that. 361 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: And I remember thinking at the time, Wow, she either 362 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: knows a lot more about the security inside that prison, 363 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: or she's taken a real chance here, because even though 364 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: power had been cut, the prisoners are monitoring broadcasts, they're 365 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: monitoring radio, so I'm pretty sure that they heard that 366 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: back inside the prison. The next morning, law enforcement radios 367 00:24:54,040 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: each other when they see prisoners back out on the yard. 368 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: Whatnot wrong my own? Please give us some respect to 369 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: coming in and getting our body. We need to come 370 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: in and get it and get it down there. Uh, 371 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: we need scaite passage. Do we have an agreement that 372 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: we can come in and get our body? Here's Warden 373 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: Arthur Tet. I was in the hostage negotiation room and 374 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: I got a call from my nurse. She said, Warden, 375 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: you'd better get down here. We think we have an 376 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: employee that's been murdered. The body of correctional Officer Robert 377 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: our Blandingham was recovered from the yard of the Southern 378 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: Ohio Correctional Facility at Wealth twenty this afternoon. His family 379 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: has been notified. The murder of four year old officer 380 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: Robert the Landingham sends ripples through law enforcement. It also 381 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: changes the entire course of the riot. Here's Colonel Tom 382 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: Rice from the Ohio State Highway Patrol. The inmates decided 383 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: that they would take a life of a corrections officer, 384 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: Bobby the Landingham, one of the nicest, calmest, gentlest guys 385 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: you'd ever want to meet. And they did, and then 386 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: they threw his body out onto the yard. Unbelievable. Sorry, 387 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: it was just unbelievable. One of the saddest days and 388 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: my whole career, the saddest day in my career, I 389 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: was dealing with that death. It was oh necessary. Here's 390 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: Arthur Tate, Lucasville's warden at the time. So not too 391 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: many people know this, but just a couple of hours 392 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: after we found out he was killed, the afternoon shift 393 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: was coming on, and they obviously had heard over the 394 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: radio through the news that one of their own had 395 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: been murdered, and I mean they were mad as hell, 396 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: and uh, they surrounded me. There probably were forty employees 397 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: maybe or more, and screaming, yelling, you know, we want 398 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: to go, we want to go into a block and 399 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: take care of business. And I'm actually thinking that this 400 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: might get physical, this could really get physical. I don't 401 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: know how I did that I somehow got them to 402 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: agree to go back and take their posts. But right 403 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: after that I end up going into a men's room 404 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,239 Speaker 1: and I just came apart. I just I did. I 405 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: lost it. I mean, I just lost it. Bob Blandingham 406 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: was a terrific correction loser. I mean that from the 407 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: bottom of my heart. And I knew him personally, played 408 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: golf with him. I don't know if it's right to 409 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: say this, but he would have been the last person 410 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: of the group that was taken hostage that I would 411 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: have thought they would have killed. Here's Officer Gerald Clark 412 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: at you, Bobby. All the inmates and all the hostages 413 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 1: all thought, well, they're gonna come in now. So I 414 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: was pretty much to the point where I'm hatting my mind. 415 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: We're dead. You know, since prisoners have now killed a hostage, 416 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: everyone inside expects law enforcement to storm the prison and 417 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: kill them all, but instead, something very different is about 418 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: to happen. In exchange for prisoner spokesperson George Skates being 419 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: allowed to give a live radio address, one hostage will 420 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: be released. Daryld learns it will be him, but he 421 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: thinks it's a setup. I said, they're wonna take me 422 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: out there and kill me. A front camera. George Skates 423 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: was escort me out and I was still blindfolded, and 424 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: that's when they couldn't find the keys to open the door. 425 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: So I'm thinking, oh my god, they're gonna change your mind. 426 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: They're gonna change your mind. They're gonna change your mind. 427 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: And then they opened the door. I walked out there 428 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: towards you where the track was. They stopped me. They 429 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: took my blindfold off, turn and look and damn, I 430 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: am being released. It was hard at that point. Yeah, 431 00:29:52,960 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: it was difficult to to leave my Oh it was 432 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:10,239 Speaker 1: hard to leave my fellow shots like that. Talked can 433 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: I'll take a break for a second. Worse, of course, 434 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: I felt guilty. Brothers were still in there, you know. 435 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: So it was hard. We have there is no more 436 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: violence we are there are no more unnecessary murders. We 437 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: are not going to bow down. We are not going 438 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: to give up. We are going to remain no matter 439 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: what they put on. If we die, we died. When 440 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: George Skates concludes his live radio address on w p A, 441 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: y Darrold is finally turned over to prison officials. I 442 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: remember walking off that yard. They had a guarney laid 443 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: out and all our rumors walking up to this collapse 444 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: on it thanking finally you know, and around him escort 445 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: me down all the corridors. They had the cortors completely 446 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: lined up, with every single staff member in the world clapping. 447 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: Here's TV anchor Bob or So. After inmate George had 448 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: air disagreemances on the radio, the inmates still wanted a 449 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: bigger presence. They wanted a live television broadcast. The state 450 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: asked me if my station w BNS could provide that. 451 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: W b n S agrees to share this live footage 452 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: with other stations and in exchange, one more hostage will 453 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: be released, Officer James Demons. To everyone's surprise, when Officer 454 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: Demons and the prisoner escorting him walk out onto the yard, 455 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: both are dressed in traditional Muslim clothing. After the Muslim 456 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: prisoner speaks, it's Officer James Steamons turn Now I knew Berlanniham. 457 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: He was a good friend of mine. The only reason 458 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: that man is dead because he's standing there so long 459 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: because they want to cut off water and turn off electricity, 460 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: which had me scared for my life in it. So 461 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: I adjusted to the nation of Islam. It's not exactly 462 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: clear why Officer Demons converted to Islam. Did he truly 463 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: end up sighting with the prisoners, or did he do 464 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: it so they let him go. Whatever the reason, he 465 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: is free. On Sunday, prison officials are ecstatic to announce 466 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: that they have new evidence the five hostage guards are 467 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: alive and well. I am pleased to announce that through negotiations, 468 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: we have an audio tape of each and every correctional officer. 469 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: This tape confirmed that all five are alive and well. 470 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: It's day eight of the uprising, and inmates tell prison 471 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: officials they want some outside legal help. My wife and 472 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: I were sitting here talking about going to the Cleveland 473 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: Indian game that afternoon when the phone rang and it 474 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: was the Chief Council from the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation 475 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: and Corrections, and he greeted me by saying, Nikki, I 476 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: never thought I'd be so glad to hear your voice. 477 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: That's Nikki Schwartz, a Cleveland lawyer with a long history 478 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: of advocating for prisoners rights and improvements in prison conditions. 479 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: Side notes. You know the prison where the Shawshank Redemption 480 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: was filmed, Well, Nikki on behalf of a human rights coalition, 481 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: was able to get that prison. The Mansfield Reformatory shut 482 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: down because it was unfit for human habitation. Okay, back 483 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: to the car, and he told me the inmates demanded 484 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: a lawyer. They decided they wanted to give him a 485 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: lawyer and would like it to be me, and therefore 486 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: what they needed in this situation where somebody both sides 487 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: would trust, and they knew from dealing with me in 488 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 1: prior cases, although I was a pain in the posterior, 489 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: I was honorable and they would trust me. Nikki has 490 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: flown down to Lucasville and immediately gets to work and 491 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 1: get to the prison and I'm taken into the warden's 492 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: office and the first thing they do they hand me 493 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: this twenty one agreement. Over the course of the last 494 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: several days, prisoners had made a list of demands which 495 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: are negotiated down to and so I read it over 496 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: and I asked them several more questions, and they then 497 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: put me on the phone with the person who at 498 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: the moment was the main prison negotiated who was Jason 499 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: rob Right now, I'm talking you want to I want 500 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: to talk to face prisoner Jason rob is asking for 501 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: a face to face meeting with Nikki, but prison officials 502 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: say before that can happen, the inmates need to release 503 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: three of the five remaining hostages. It's made clear that 504 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: isn't going to happen. However, there's something else going on 505 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: that day that may affect law enforcements. Next move. ABC 506 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: News as Nightline reports this ABC News Nightline, what began 507 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: is a fiasco on the February ended as a total 508 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: disaster today. Waco. The siege at the Branch Davidian compound 509 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: in Waco, Texas that began six weeks before Lucasville just 510 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: came to a violent and fiery end. More than seventy 511 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: members of the religious sect were killed. Here's Nikki. Monday 512 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: was the day of the Waco fire. Now, when I 513 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: heard about the Waco fire, I feared that would increase 514 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: the likelihood of a armed solution to the problem. I 515 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,959 Speaker 1: think it worked the opposite. I think it's scared them, 516 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: and I think that's why they said, Okay, let's we'll 517 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,479 Speaker 1: let the negotiations go forward. Now Tuesday brings the best 518 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 1: news yet. Word from the attorney assigned to the inmates 519 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: that they want the siege to end now, but first 520 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: Nikki's face to face meeting with the prisoners. Law enforcement 521 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,959 Speaker 1: is concerned for his safety, so instead of Nikki going 522 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: inside to meet with the prisoners, two tables are set 523 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: up outside on either side of the perimeter fence. So 524 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 1: the three prison negotiators emerged and approached the table after 525 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: introducing myself. For things I said to them was that, um, 526 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: I may not be able to tell you what you 527 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: want to hear, but I'm not going to give you 528 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: any bullshit. They later told me that was a very 529 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: significant statement on my part, that that that was meaningful 530 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: to me. The first thing that the prisoners asked was 531 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: they wanted amnesty, and I said that's not possible. A 532 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: guard has been killed. They accepted that for the time being, 533 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: so their primary concern was their safety following the surrender. 534 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: So they told me their conditions, which included that none 535 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: of the members of their three groups in the Black 536 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: Gangster Disciples or White Area and Brotherhood and the Sunaim 537 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: Whistlers would spend ten minutes in Lucasville cell after the surrector, 538 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: that they would all be bust out to another institution, 539 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: that the surrender process would be televised live, that it 540 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: would have um outside observers, including me, and that they 541 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: be permitted to control the surrender process. The prisoners tell 542 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: Nikki they will take the terms back to the rest 543 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: of the men inside and will be in touch. The 544 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: next afternoon. Anchor Bob or goes live on w B 545 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: and S with some breaking news. If you just joined us, 546 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: this is live coverage a special report from Lucasville with 547 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: the good news that the eleven day siege now has ended. 548 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: They have reeskent agreement. It sounds like Nikki Schwartz was pivotal. 549 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: At mid afternoon, the community watched what appeared to be 550 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: the beginning of a peaceful surrender. This came after inmates 551 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: and prison authorities agreed to a twenty one agreement on 552 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: the inmate demands they mostly had to do with prison 553 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: policy and procedures, and an agreement that there will be 554 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: no retaliation against the prisoners after their surrender. The surrender 555 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: continues late into the evening. Some of the last to 556 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,439 Speaker 1: emerge are the five officer hostages. Here's Colonel Tom Rice. 557 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: They were safe. It was fantastic. I've often said it 558 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: was the saddest and the happiest day of my life. 559 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,839 Speaker 1: They were going to go back to their families. Yeah, 560 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: we lost one. So it was an overwhelming feeling of 561 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:37,240 Speaker 1: joy and sadness all mixed into one. After eleven long days, 562 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: it's finally over. Although when l block is cleared, the 563 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 1: bodies of two more dead prisoners are discovered. Here's Bobb again. 564 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: In the end, ten people died, nine inmates in one guard. 565 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: A lot of pain happened there, A lot of families 566 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: were touched, guards, inmates, staff, and it's sadly, you know, 567 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: one of the darkest chapters in Ohio history. Now, one 568 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: of the largest investigations in Ohio history is about to begin, 569 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: and the search for those responsible for murdering nine prisoners 570 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: and one officer will be unprecedented. So how does Keith Lamar, 571 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,439 Speaker 1: the man whose case we're covering, fit into all of this. Well, 572 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: Keith will soon be named the leader of the death squad. 573 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: He will be accused of orchestrating and taking part in 574 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 1: the vicious murders of five men during the uprising. Question 575 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: is do they have the right guy now? Not Gilly, 576 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: I didn't kill anybody. Coming up this season on the 577 00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: Real Killer to come into a prison, and you've got 578 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: a choice. You can do it on your feet or 579 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: you could do it on your stomach. Lucasville from its 580 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: inception was a disaster waiting to happen. It puts you 581 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: through artist bullshit and you and if you get angry, 582 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: see that's proof that he's an animal. No, that's proof 583 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: that I'm human being, That this ship hurt, that the 584 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: ship you're doing to me is painful. Do you know 585 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: Keith Lamar? Did you see him inside L six? The 586 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,479 Speaker 1: investigator saying to me, if you're gonna stept this deal, 587 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you that we're gonna put your 588 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: black ass on death. Bro. They had zero physical evidence, 589 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: five brutal killings, just nothing. How did you feel about 590 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: your case? Oh? I thought he's gonna get convicted. This 591 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: man was probably the most significant prosecution witness. He lined 592 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: through his teeth to eliminate the scumbugs. Testimony against all 593 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,240 Speaker 1: the scumbugs. You would have a hard time compliction many. 594 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:07,320 Speaker 1: But you're standing there watch another human being being killed. 595 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,280 Speaker 1: What does that say about you? What you told police 596 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: which is different than what you shared with me. You 597 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: want to have a conversation that's had a conversation people 598 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: have asked over the years, you know what if he's guilty. 599 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: Even if he were guilty, which absolutely don't believe he is, 600 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: it still doesn't change the fact that the way and 601 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: the methods that were used were unconstitutional and wrong. They cheated. 602 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: If the State of Ohio executes Keith, they will absolutely 603 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: be executing. We're not barbarians, or are we? The Real 604 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: Killer is a production of A y R Media and 605 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, hosted by me Leah Rothman. Executive producers 606 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: Leah Rothman and Liza Rose for A y R Media. 607 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:08,240 Speaker 1: Written by Leah Rothman, Executive producer Paulina Williams, Senior Associate 608 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: producer Jill Pashas Nick coordinator George Fom. Editing and sound 609 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,240 Speaker 1: design by Cameron Taggy, mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. 610 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: Audio engineering by Matt Jacobsen. Studio engineering by Anna Moolshan 611 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: legal counsel for A y R Media, Gianni Douglas, Executive 612 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,800 Speaker 1: producer for iHeart Radio, Maya Howard