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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Ani and Samantha and welcome to stephone

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Speaker 1: never told your production of I Heart Radio. All right, An,

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Speaker 1: let's get part from all you ready? Always always at

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Speaker 1: what point, because you know I've talked about this quite

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Speaker 1: a bit, Yes, did you decide that you probably don't

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Speaker 1: want kids. I was someone who was really into the

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Speaker 1: idea of kids for a while, and I had like

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Speaker 1: names picked out, which was very selfish of me for

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Speaker 1: any future partner. But I was like, these are the

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Speaker 1: names for my three children that I'm going to have.

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Speaker 1: And then I think when I got to college, I

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Speaker 1: started being like, probably delay it because I thought I

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Speaker 1: was gonna this was all gonna happen like right after

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Speaker 1: college or something. I was like, no, I want to

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Speaker 1: travel and whatever. And then as I got older and

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Speaker 1: I did travel, and I did start looking inwards. I

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Speaker 1: won't say that it was a necessarily a healthy decision,

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Speaker 1: because at first it was very fear based, whereas like,

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Speaker 1: I can't I don't think I'd be good at raising children,

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Speaker 1: and so it was more of a I absorbed all

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Speaker 1: that messaging about being the perfect mom, I think, and like,

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Speaker 1: you're going to screw up these children forever. But no

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Speaker 1: matter what you do. So I had that on my

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Speaker 1: brain and I was like, Okay, so I don't want

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Speaker 1: to do that to a child. And then when I

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Speaker 1: started dating and I was in one of my first

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Speaker 1: long term relationships, that's when I realized. I guess it

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Speaker 1: was also kind of fear based, but I was afraid

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Speaker 1: that if I had children. While I would be someone

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Speaker 1: who would really push for like equal spreading of responsibilities,

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Speaker 1: I think I would also cave. And that's just like

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Speaker 1: a acknowledgement of who I am and how I've been raised.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, it's a child, and I want to

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Speaker 1: take care of them and I want to make them happy,

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Speaker 1: and I think that I would pick up more and

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Speaker 1: more slack and I would go more and more resentful.

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Speaker 1: So it was almost like a anti patriarchy thing where

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Speaker 1: I'm like, as long as the system is this way

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Speaker 1: and I am this way, then I don't think that

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Speaker 1: I want children. So I was probably about when I

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Speaker 1: had that realization, You're you're fairly young in this process,

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Speaker 1: not according to our eggs, but in our timeline, I guess.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, today, for our Monday many this is a

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Speaker 1: question that has been way, pretty heavily on me specifically,

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Speaker 1: coming at forty looking at future prospects, being in one

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Speaker 1: of my longest relationships ever is kind of one of

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Speaker 1: those moments of like, Okay, you really have to have

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Speaker 1: a descision, You need to make up your mind and um,

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Speaker 1: think about what all of this looks like for your

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Speaker 1: future and all of this in our respect to yeah,

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Speaker 1: the country, ourselves, our families, whatever it may be. And

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Speaker 1: for me, it's been a whole internal back and forth

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Speaker 1: conversations about whether or not I wanted to be a parent,

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Speaker 1: and if I were to be a parent, would I

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Speaker 1: be a good parent, and if I actually could be

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Speaker 1: a good parent overall, um, and whether it would be

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Speaker 1: something that having kids it's even possible for me. I know,

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Speaker 1: growing up at a younger age, I was severely abused

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Speaker 1: and there was a lot of questions for me. And

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Speaker 1: I don't have any health issues that I know of.

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Speaker 1: I definitely have had a few systs as well as

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Speaker 1: when I would go back and have to have tests

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Speaker 1: and make sure everything was okay, HPV tests, all of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that's not uncommon for a lot of

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Speaker 1: women in general, and so it was kind of like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if this is possible for me,

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Speaker 1: could I actually ap procreate for real? For real? And

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Speaker 1: for me even being a part of the dating world forever,

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's been forever. But to be honest,

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Speaker 1: I didn't actually start dating until it was about like two.

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Speaker 1: I've had a few dates every now and again, but

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Speaker 1: I was just pretty much like, Nope, can't date, can't date.

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Speaker 1: I am not worthy of dating. I've been to trauma

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Speaker 1: tiest for dating. So I didn't really start dating until

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Speaker 1: mid twenties. And as of the last ten years of dating,

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Speaker 1: I've made sure how to have conversations if anybody comes

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Speaker 1: into any kind of seriousness, and even more so in

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Speaker 1: the last five years when I've had any relationship at all,

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Speaker 1: that's been a key point and be like, hey, I

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Speaker 1: know we're just getting to know each other, but do

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Speaker 1: you want children? Because I don't know if I do.

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Speaker 1: And I think I've seen so many relationships and marriages

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Speaker 1: fall apart because it's not something they have discussed or

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Speaker 1: taken seriously. Like I've seen so many couples who will

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Speaker 1: be like, ah, they'll change their mind, they don't, and

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Speaker 1: then that kind of comes apart when they're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: Are you serious, you really don't want to have kids?

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Speaker 1: And they're like, no, I really don't. The conversation of adoption.

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Speaker 1: For me, I've always said I would most likely adopt

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Speaker 1: over having my own child. Then again, of course I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing these issues of adoptions in general, like kind of

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Speaker 1: the sad you know, implications for that child in general,

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Speaker 1: what is happening, who is being adopted, who's not being adopted,

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Speaker 1: who's being sold, who's being taken from families? Like that's

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Speaker 1: a whole big other conversation to that. So that's kind

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Speaker 1: of changed my views on that as well. And so

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Speaker 1: that's again that's one of my first things, like, all right,

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Speaker 1: you sure, because I promise you right now definitely not

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Speaker 1: want to have kids. And I don't know if I'll

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Speaker 1: ever change my mind, but you need to know not

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Speaker 1: now I might not, so I don't want you to

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Speaker 1: be discouraged. Again. I still go back and forth on

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Speaker 1: all of it. And like I said, one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest reasons that I've been really thinking about it and

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Speaker 1: trying to process, like, am I going to regret not

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Speaker 1: having children? And since quote high risk and Jerry atric

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Speaker 1: pregnancies are considered for women who are over thirty five,

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Speaker 1: We're just like what what Because there is this whole

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Speaker 1: idea of the expiration date for us, for most people

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Speaker 1: with uterus is and I have to ask why his

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Speaker 1: nature got to be so ag just right, I mean

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Speaker 1: why why? Of course, and sexiest too because of men's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have babies all all the time, any times.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there are other avenues and I'm not necessarily

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Speaker 1: opposed to any of that, but of course there's also

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Speaker 1: this bit of internal misogyny of seeing my worth and

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Speaker 1: being able to actually birth a baby, a human. Um.

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Speaker 1: And according to my high school best friend's grandmother when

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Speaker 1: I showed up to show off our prom dresses, have

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Speaker 1: really good birthing hips. So I feel like I'm wasting

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Speaker 1: some things, you know what I'm saying. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: and again it's not just me and I know this,

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Speaker 1: and there's so many articles, but the term voluntary childlessness

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Speaker 1: has been around since the seventies, and just in case

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Speaker 1: you were wondering of the term childlessness, and voluntary childlessness

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Speaker 1: is the accomplishing the goal of remaining child free, whether

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Speaker 1: through a process of going through surgery to prevent having

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Speaker 1: a child, whether having I U D. Plug you up,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much, I U D s. And the

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Speaker 1: factors are vast um and they could include age, income,

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Speaker 1: marriage or unmarried status, and higher education. And there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of conversations on why or who or when for

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Speaker 1: the lack of like all of the questions of why

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Speaker 1: someone may choose. And as in fact, there have been,

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Speaker 1: like I said, a lot of articles giving advice op

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Speaker 1: eds about people deciding and why they decided to not

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Speaker 1: have children. And then, as in fact, one study and

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Speaker 1: conducted in eighteen, some of the reasons that they talked

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Speaker 1: about that we will continue to talk about. Of nearly

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Speaker 1: two thousand people that were surveyed from ages twenty to forty,

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Speaker 1: five of survey respondents said they didn't want children or

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Speaker 1: we're not sure about becoming parents because they wanted more

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Speaker 1: leisure time. And I think the pandemic has been a

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Speaker 1: bright spotlight on and obvious to who has children and

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Speaker 1: who doesn't like it's it's very like, oh, the struggles

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Speaker 1: are here and here and here, and the things that

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Speaker 1: have been elevated to that conversation said they haven't found

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Speaker 1: a partner to raise children with. And then thirty one

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Speaker 1: talked about the fact that they cannot afford childcare. So

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Speaker 1: there's definitely a lot of reasons why we might not

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Speaker 1: be one children right now. Yeah, And that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that makes me really angry when and this

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Speaker 1: happens in any generation. I Am not saying that it's

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Speaker 1: just millennials getting attacked, but when people are like millennials

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Speaker 1: aren't having children, they're so selfish why and it's like

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Speaker 1: we can't afford it. We're thinking about the child that

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Speaker 1: we're like, well, we can't afford to raise a kid.

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of reasons why that is right

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Speaker 1: until we fix those things then, yeah, and that was

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Speaker 1: something I definitely take into account to of like the

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Speaker 1: stress of financially providing for a child. And the CDC

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Speaker 1: has just reported as of the u S birth and

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Speaker 1: fertility rates have made a record breaking low since nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy nine. It's been declining for the last six years

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Speaker 1: and as the decline of the birth rate doubled from

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Speaker 1: the year before. And here are some specific stats according

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Speaker 1: to the survey. Directly from the report, teen birth rates

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Speaker 1: that dropped considerably, with birth to fifteen to seventeen year

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Speaker 1: olds following by six percent. And to eighteen and nineteen

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Speaker 1: year olds following by seven percent, both hitting record blows.

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Speaker 1: Birth rates among women ages twenty to twenty four and

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Speaker 1: twenty to twenty nine by six percent and four percent, respectively,

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Speaker 1: both to record blows. Birth Rates fell by four percent

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Speaker 1: and two percent respectively among women ages thirty to thirty

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Speaker 1: four and thirty five to thirty nine, but did not

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Speaker 1: reach record lows according to CDC data. Right, and so

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Speaker 1: some of this bigger conversation about why aren't teens having

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Speaker 1: more babies or having less babies? Maybe they have access

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Speaker 1: to birth control now, and maybe they have access to

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Speaker 1: abortion if need be, better sex education, maybe more openness.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. If social media has helped a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because now you can find a lot

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Speaker 1: more information online as where when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: maybe not. You know, and I was like fifteen years old.

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Speaker 1: We had the internet, but we didn't go there often

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Speaker 1: and we shared it with our parents and therefore we

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Speaker 1: definitely they didn't look at it. Didn't really have any

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Speaker 1: access to cell phones because you know, we had car phones.

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Speaker 1: Then girlfriend had a car phone. And I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: that giant bag people carried out that plugged into the

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Speaker 1: cigarette lighter, still my favorite thing. We had those, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a little computers essentially in our hands. So

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Speaker 1: that says a lot, and I'm really sad that people

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Speaker 1: are trying to go backwards. Hello. Birth rates from women

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Speaker 1: ages forty to forty four my age range, fell by

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Speaker 1: two from twenty nineteen, but birth rates for women forty

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Speaker 1: five and up remain unchanged. And again it maybe partially

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Speaker 1: because it's harder to get printed, less likely to get

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Speaker 1: printed at that time, I don't know. And also the

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Speaker 1: number of births declined three for Hispanic when men and

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Speaker 1: four percent for white and black women from tween nineteen twenty. Again,

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Speaker 1: these are directly from the report by the CDC. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: things are changing. Things have changed, yes, yes, And there

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Speaker 1: are many reasons for the declines. Some speculate that it's

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Speaker 1: due to the pandemic, though not much data has been

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Speaker 1: collected to support that. Other experts say that it's the

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Speaker 1: lack of vital resources like housing and food among those

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Speaker 1: demographics with correlations between their eyes and unemployment rates and

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Speaker 1: the decline in birth rates. I will say recently there's

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Speaker 1: been another survey and I haven't looked into it enough

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Speaker 1: to like judge how authentic or scientifically accurate it is,

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Speaker 1: but that millennials are having less sex and uh, I

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Speaker 1: have a friend who said, until like I can access

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Speaker 1: abortion easily, the gates are closed. Like, so I do

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Speaker 1: think that's a part of it too, is um as

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Speaker 1: we're seeing this rolling back or real pushback against abortion,

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Speaker 1: women are thinking, well, then I guess I won't be

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Speaker 1: engaging sex. That's just my theory. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of it is also calling out the

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Speaker 1: misogyny and see the nastiness of the power play that's

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Speaker 1: been happening when it comes to toxic masculinity, and I

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Speaker 1: think that has something to do with it as well.

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Speaker 1: And we talked a little bit about the fact that

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Speaker 1: people weren't meeting up during pandemics. Uh, they weren't just

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Speaker 1: coming out anymore and hooking up with people, which you

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Speaker 1: do what you want, but for the sake of not

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Speaker 1: spreading COVID, So that could have something to do with it.

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Speaker 1: Who knows. Of course, when people who were able to

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Speaker 1: be pregnant but who's not two were asked, some stated

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Speaker 1: that the mere fact society is not demanding or expecting

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Speaker 1: them to have children as much has kind of taken

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Speaker 1: off so of that pressure to have children. And for me, yeah,

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Speaker 1: my mother has finally stopped asking me about having kids

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Speaker 1: or getting married after seeing how bad marriages can ruin

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Speaker 1: families and can cause so much damage. So I've definitely

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Speaker 1: seen and we've all seen it, and maybe we have

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Speaker 1: been a part of this family. Let us be honest

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Speaker 1: where they're trying to save a marriage by having a child,

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Speaker 1: and oh, that's not as helpful as you think it is,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't work typically, and I think it's finally

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Speaker 1: gotten to the point that people are like, I figured out,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to be together, not gonna try to

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Speaker 1: have a baby to save anything, because it's fine, We're fine.

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Speaker 1: And for those who have gone through these messy divorces

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Speaker 1: with children, which is what I'm talking about, they're like, ah,

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Speaker 1: maybe this was not a great idea now that they

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Speaker 1: regret having children. But of course there are some reports

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Speaker 1: that they're more like people are more likely to regret

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Speaker 1: having children. I don't know. I didn't look too deeply

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Speaker 1: into that. That could be a whole other episode. But

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Speaker 1: having that being a part of that mess, it just

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Speaker 1: is so heartbreaking. In general, and I'm sure because we

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Speaker 1: have been children, uh seeing really ugly divorces as it

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Speaker 1: has become a steady incline at one point in time,

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of even doubt where it's like, uh,

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Speaker 1: but we have noticed. Yeah, maybe it's not a bad

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Speaker 1: thing to not have children because things seem less messier,

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Speaker 1: not always, And I think for my mother, who for

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Speaker 1: so long would get into a sweeping match with me

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Speaker 1: every Christmas about why I didn't have children and that

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Speaker 1: I was going to die alone and no one was

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Speaker 1: going to take care of me, made sure to tell

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Speaker 1: me that and then gave me an example of my

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Speaker 1: spinster great aunt, who she said died alone, which is

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Speaker 1: not true because her brother lived with her as well

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Speaker 1: as other family members. So I'm not really sure what

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Speaker 1: she was talking about, um, but the fact that that

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Speaker 1: has completely washed away after seeing divorces happened within my family,

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Speaker 1: and so that is one of the things, like I

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Speaker 1: agree because of that, I have not had any pressure

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Speaker 1: from anyone. Yeah, I feel like my dad kind of

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Speaker 1: pushed push drink for it, as I've talked about, But

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Speaker 1: I'm and I like a couple of weeks to go

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Speaker 1: out of a conversation where it was very clear to

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Speaker 1: me that she's not expecting anything, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is nice. It's like there's no part of her.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like a judgmental thing or it was just like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like the path you're going down, and

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Speaker 1: that's cool, cool, thank you. Okay. Some other reasons for

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Speaker 1: all of this. Women are choosing careers in higher education

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Speaker 1: over the high cost of raising children. And though the

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Speaker 1: numbers of women having children in life hasn't changed too

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Speaker 1: much percentage wise, the number of births have decreased by

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Speaker 1: at least five hundred thousand from two thousand seven to seventeen. Monetarily,

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Speaker 1: it is estimated that raising a child costs about two

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty three thousand, six hundred ten dollars, and

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Speaker 1: that's not including college tuition, because yeah, I would have

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Speaker 1: guessed way higher. I calculated this out at one point

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Speaker 1: and I was like a million something And that's where

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Speaker 1: I was very young when I was doing this, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I can't four a child. Well, also,

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Speaker 1: you've got to remember this is one child exactly. This

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Speaker 1: is based on a median line. Because we know that

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Speaker 1: economic status is different for everyone, and therefore those who

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Speaker 1: are doing without are just trying to make do. So

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Speaker 1: who knows if they're getting everything they need to the

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Speaker 1: amount of kids that are in the foster care system

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Speaker 1: that get very little. In fact, there's a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of things. But that is the average. And again in

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Speaker 1: the US, we know that the income statistics and income

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Speaker 1: variations are huge. The gaps are huge, and I think

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Speaker 1: we need to account for that. So we could have

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Speaker 1: people who are making literally twelve thousand and that's a

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Speaker 1: minimum wage job to people making billions, and so we're

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Speaker 1: putting those in the line. So that's really not fair calculation.

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Speaker 1: And who's spending what on what? Of course, if you're

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Speaker 1: trying to buy kids education, like buy a kids acceptance

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Speaker 1: by giving millions of dollars to a specific school because

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Speaker 1: your kids is not smart enough to get accepted whatever,

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Speaker 1: that's not accounting for you either, So we'll leave that

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Speaker 1: one alone. But yeah, for me specifically, my adoption costs

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Speaker 1: about believe, I can't quite remember. I came in at

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Speaker 1: seven everything, I bought my own car, started working at fourteen,

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Speaker 1: and I paid for my own school. I paid for

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Speaker 1: everything after school, like all of that. The only thing

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Speaker 1: I didn't pay for was car insurance until I was

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Speaker 1: twenty one, and then after that I was on my own.

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Speaker 1: So definitely a lot to consider and who's giving what.

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Speaker 1: But and again I think within the millennials, because I

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Speaker 1: need people to stop using the term geriatric because again annoying,

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Speaker 1: but technically they said I'm geriatric. Millennial whoever said that,

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Speaker 1: I don't like you because in that generation of earning

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Speaker 1: your own, like income to get yourself into school, things

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Speaker 1: like grants that help people get into school or if

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Speaker 1: you're in UK, which oh look post education is free

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Speaker 1: and it should be, but okay, stuff like that, you

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Speaker 1: start considering the different amounts of money that you have

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Speaker 1: to say for your kids. Other reasons can be as

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Speaker 1: simple slash obligated, such as mental health and past trauma.

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Speaker 1: And you just kind of talked about it, and I've

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Speaker 1: talked about it before, and we've heard from people from

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Speaker 1: our listeners specifically, like when we talked about preentification of

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Speaker 1: not wanting children or fear having children, and honestly, I'm

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Speaker 1: in that category as well as so much past trauma,

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Speaker 1: so much collective trauma, and for me, so much work trauma.

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Speaker 1: So I've seen the makeup of really bad families and

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Speaker 1: us seeing the horridness of addiction and families and being

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Speaker 1: inable to actually afford and get help. Not being able

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Speaker 1: to afford child care has been a reason to remove children,

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Speaker 1: which is absurd and makes me angry. And I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't, But it's a complicated system, and the expectations

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Speaker 1: placed on specifically women or those who have uterus is

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Speaker 1: in general, to care for their children without any assistance

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Speaker 1: or barely any assistance is absurd in itself and it

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Speaker 1: already puts them up to fail. And for me, seeing

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Speaker 1: that I know I have the support system, but the

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00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 1: overall idea of just no, no, no, I'm good, I'm good,

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Speaker 1: and growing up with my past trauma, the fear of

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Speaker 1: what I will do to my own kids, whether it's

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Speaker 1: I'm overly you know, too needy, or too you know,

351
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Speaker 1: all of these things, which is why I have a

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Speaker 1: dog that I'm too needy with. And honestly, as a nanny,

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Speaker 1: I felt like I was raising my own like I

354
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Speaker 1: was raising kids already, and I'm sure I got paid

355
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Speaker 1: for it, but I literally raised kids for four to

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Speaker 1: five years. I had one that was two to six

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Speaker 1: when I had taken care of them, and not that

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Speaker 1: the parents weren't present. The mother was absolutely present. She

359
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,239
Speaker 1: just needs a lot of help. And I ended up

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Speaker 1: being authoritarian, the disciplinarian, like the schedule keeper. It was interesting,

361
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 1: but yeah, I feel like I've already raised it. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, du I want to do that on my own? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel like for a period of time I raised

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Speaker 1: my little brother and now it's like interesting through therapy

365
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,719
Speaker 1: where now I'm like having guilt resurface of like did

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Speaker 1: I do a good job raising him? It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: where'd you? Should you have been raising him? I don't know,

368
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, that's been one of the things I

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Speaker 1: think about too, is I'm not sure I did a

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Speaker 1: good job. So I was a child, but still, so

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Speaker 1: what do we do with this regret? There are so

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Speaker 1: many articles that are out there to help and encourage

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Speaker 1: our decisions, meaning allow us to feel that the decision

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Speaker 1: we are making is okay and acceptable for us. So

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Speaker 1: one thing is trust that decision you're making its best

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Speaker 1: for you. Try to separate what you want versus what

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Speaker 1: society tells you what you want. And yeah, also it's

378
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Speaker 1: okay to change your mind and not always be sure.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I am going back and forth with it,

380
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Speaker 1: having deep conversations with people, current partner, all of that,

381
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,159
Speaker 1: just trying to figure out, Hey, it's happening. And I

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00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: would and visit a couple who are friends of mine.

383
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,239
Speaker 1: I've been friends with him very long time. They just

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Speaker 1: had their first child not too long ago. She is

385
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: a little older than myself, and I talked about it

386
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,119
Speaker 1: with her. I was like, how is your was there

387
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: any complications, how do you feel about all of this?

388
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 1: What did you think? And how do you feel? And

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00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 1: the baby is adorable by the way, And I did

390
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,679
Speaker 1: again had that moment of like, I've only got a

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00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 1: couple of more years, Oh no, what I need to do?

392
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 1: And it is it's it's a hard decision, and I

393
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: still have a back and forth. And I think again

394
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: part of that as society slowly backing off and realizing

395
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: this is not this is not up to us. We

396
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: don't we really don't have any say so on what

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00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,120
Speaker 1: a family or looks like anymore, and we really shouldn't

398
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 1: dictate that. Um And of course, yeah, we need to

399
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,879
Speaker 1: have a larger conversation about the language of pregnancy in general.

400
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm still mad about this geriatric pregnancy thing, by the way,

401
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: And again, the conversation of choice of those who choose

402
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: to have children, that's wonderful. Those who choose not to

403
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: have children, that's wonderful too. As one listener reminded us

404
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: as she talked about her own child and having to

405
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: go through all the hardships and being able to have

406
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 1: a child and then being told that, oh, you just

407
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: had a pandemic baby, and she's like, that's insulting. That's

408
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: not what happened. This was something that they've been hoping for,

409
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: wanting and they finally got and are so excited. But

410
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 1: to have it dismissed like that is really insulting. And yeah,

411
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: we need to talk about that. This is a private decision,

412
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Speaker 1: whatever it might be, and it is something private, and

413
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: it can be heartbreaking either way, whether it's they involuntarily

414
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: we're childless and they really wanted and it just didn't happen.

415
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot of heart right to that, to those

416
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 1: who are voluntarily wanting to be childless, and there's a

417
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: lot of reasons for that. There's a lot of trauma

418
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: behind that. These are private matters that need to be

419
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: allowed to be private. And also let's let's talk about

420
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: this as you don't have any questions to ask. Don't

421
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: ask when they're gonna get pregnant, don't ask when you're

422
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: having a baby. Let's just not let's just throw that

423
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: all out the window. It's not a conversation starter. If

424
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: we didn't bring it up, as in those who have utters,

425
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: then you have no business in asking. Yeah. Period. Yeah, Yeah,

426
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: there are so many avenues we could discuss here, because

427
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: definitely I think that whole perfect mother image is at play,

428
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Speaker 1: and a lot of this because I'm pretty confident in

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Speaker 1: my own decision, but I think at some time I

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Speaker 1: was the fear of living up to that was what

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Speaker 1: was the main decider, and as we've discussed, it's like

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Speaker 1: impossible to live up to that r and um. So yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's so much we could untangle here, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: we will in the future. In the meantime, Listeners, if

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00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: you'd like to contact us, you can or emails Stuffy

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00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: Da Mom Stuff That I Hurt Media dot com. You

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00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or

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Speaker 1: on Instagram and stuff I Never told to you. Thanks

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00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: as always to our superproducer Christina, thank you, Thanks to

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Speaker 1: you for listening. Stephane Never told you his production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: VI is the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcast or ready

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows