1
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,720
Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, how do you convince the government to give

2
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 1: you ten billion dollars? Oh, you just have to promise

3
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,239
Speaker 1: an aircraft carrier or two. I think that's right. That's

4
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:18,840
Speaker 1: about the cost of one. But it's also kind of

5
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,400
Speaker 1: the cost of a big physics experiment, right, that's true.

6
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 1: Although I didn't personally get the check for ten billion

7
00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,360
Speaker 1: dollars for the large H. John collider. But you're write

8
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of world governments all chipped in and spent

9
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,400
Speaker 1: a lot of money on a physics experiment, right, And

10
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 1: and I imagined that in each of those countries there

11
00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:37,839
Speaker 1: had to be some physicists who went up to the

12
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,760
Speaker 1: government officials and said, hey, gave was this money to

13
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,360
Speaker 1: discover this thing or that thing? Right? Um? Yeah, Well,

14
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 1: they don't send me to pitch these things to the government,

15
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,320
Speaker 1: probably very good reason. I'm unusual in particle physics. I

16
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,919
Speaker 1: think most particle physicists like to make more concrete predictions

17
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: about what we might find. My view is that we

18
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 1: should just sell the exploration. But I think the one

19
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 1: you're referring to is a kind of a famous area

20
00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:08,640
Speaker 1: in particle physics about the storage for the search for supersymmetry.

21
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,160
Speaker 1: Exactly a lot of people thought we were going to

22
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,839
Speaker 1: find supersymmetry at the large a John Collider. So far nothing.

23
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,839
Speaker 1: I think I saw that movie from the eighties, wasn't

24
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 1: it called Despritley Seeking Susie. That's right, supersymmetry is short

25
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:27,320
Speaker 1: and sometimes as Susie Susie here, give me a billion dollars,

26
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,080
Speaker 1: I'll find her. Okay, Um, you start looking and I'll

27
00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 1: send you a chet. Sounds good. I'll be right back. Hi.

28
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 1: I'm Organ and I'm Daniel, and welcome to our podcast,

29
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of I

30
00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, in which we take things in the universe

31
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,800
Speaker 1: and explain them to you. Things that are super, things

32
00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,760
Speaker 1: that are not so super, things that are symmetrical, and

33
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,079
Speaker 1: things that are asymmetrical, things that are antithetical to everything

34
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,359
Speaker 1: you believe in, but actually true. That's right. Today on

35
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 1: the podcast, we're going to talk about a pretty kind

36
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,799
Speaker 1: of it's kind of a corner of particle physics, right

37
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 1: and it's it's probably not super well known, but it

38
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,040
Speaker 1: is it can have incredible implications for our entire theory

39
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,960
Speaker 1: about the universe. Right. Yeah, it's sort of like particle

40
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 1: physicists big hope. Right, it's like a beautiful idea that

41
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,640
Speaker 1: everybody really really wishes were true. It's solve a bunch

42
00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,520
Speaker 1: of problems. It would work really well, it would be gorgeous.

43
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,600
Speaker 1: Everybody wants us to find it. Yeah, that's right. Today

44
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:49,800
Speaker 1: on the program, we're going to talk about super symmetry.

45
00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 1: What is it? Not just everyday symmetry, not just good symmetry,

46
00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,520
Speaker 1: not just extra symmetry, but super not just mild mannered Tonian,

47
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:07,280
Speaker 1: superpowered flying symmetry. That's right, supersymmetry. It's supposed to be

48
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,960
Speaker 1: the next big thing in physics. You know. It's motivated

49
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,880
Speaker 1: by looking at the equations and thinking this doesn't quite

50
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,680
Speaker 1: fit together. How can we make this prettier? How can

51
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,400
Speaker 1: we find something that's simpler, that hangs together in a

52
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 1: way that that satisfies us aesthetically. You know, that's sort

53
00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:28,480
Speaker 1: of surprising how much beauty we search for sometimes in physics. Yeah,

54
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 1: that's it's kind of interesting that physicists think about beauty

55
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,040
Speaker 1: in their equations, right, Like, isn't that a subjective quality?

56
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 1: Completely subjective? Absolutely, But you know it's a very important

57
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,920
Speaker 1: guiding principle, Like it goes all the way back to

58
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,600
Speaker 1: Acam's razor. We prefer simple explanations over complex ones. Right,

59
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 1: If your theory has one moving part, it's simpler than

60
00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,000
Speaker 1: something that has two moving parts or ten moving parts. Right.

61
00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 1: Even also just in your life, right, you prefer simpler

62
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 1: explanations to answer the questions you have. Right, So is

63
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 1: it more about elegant Do you think like that's an

64
00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,680
Speaker 1: elegant solution or an elegant answer in that it's it's

65
00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 1: simple and directly to the point. Yeah, And I think

66
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,520
Speaker 1: it goes to the questions we have as humans. You know,

67
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: I want to know how was the universe put together?

68
00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,200
Speaker 1: And I'd love if that answer was short, you know,

69
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,159
Speaker 1: if it was simple. If the answer to the question

70
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,840
Speaker 1: like how is the universe organized is like a huge

71
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,159
Speaker 1: list of what every single particle in the universe is

72
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,600
Speaker 1: supposed to do, then that's not really simplification. Right. In

73
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,839
Speaker 1: some sense, the search for simplicity is inherent. It's core

74
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,960
Speaker 1: to physics, right. That's what physics is is take everything

75
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,480
Speaker 1: we observe and describe in terms of a few equations. Right. Well,

76
00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,599
Speaker 1: I mean you're you're basically looking for laws, right, I

77
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,160
Speaker 1: mean that's the idea you know, the idea of a

78
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 1: law is is something that's applicable to many situations and

79
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 1: not just specific situations, right, exactly. You want you want

80
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,360
Speaker 1: rules that generalize, Right. You want to measure something here

81
00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,560
Speaker 1: and know you can apply it later. You want to say, oh,

82
00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,120
Speaker 1: I studied this baseball's ocean, now I know how the

83
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 1: next baseball is going to move. Right. You don't want

84
00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 1: to a rule that applies a different rule applies to

85
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,919
Speaker 1: every baseball. Yeah, Like you can't have a government that

86
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 1: runs with a huge book that says, all right, if

87
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,240
Speaker 1: a guy named Whorehead does a podcast and he does

88
00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 1: this and that's not allowed, or if he does this,

89
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,920
Speaker 1: that's not allowed. But then if it's a guy named Daniel,

90
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,880
Speaker 1: then he can't do this or that of that. You

91
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,040
Speaker 1: sort of want rule that applies to a general rule

92
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,239
Speaker 1: that applies to everyone. YEA, Well, you know, I wouldn't

93
00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 1: mind having special rule just for me. Daniel doesn't have

94
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,680
Speaker 1: to pay taxes, Daniel can drive as fast as he likes.

95
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,560
Speaker 1: That would be nice. But you're right, it's not a

96
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,760
Speaker 1: sustainable way to do it. And and it's not just

97
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 1: not sustainable, you know, I think the whole job of

98
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,600
Speaker 1: physics is to come up with generalizable laws. And so

99
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 1: we've done this a lot of times in physics. We've said, hey,

100
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,360
Speaker 1: look at this um electricity is kind of similar to magnetism.

101
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,320
Speaker 1: Can we simplify things and describe it in terms of

102
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 1: just one idea electro magnetism. Oh look, you know this

103
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,840
Speaker 1: piece fits together with that piece. It turns out, you know,

104
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,159
Speaker 1: it's it's all part of the same thing, right, or

105
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,280
Speaker 1: like a discovering F equals m A. And you find

106
00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: that this lab applies to a whole bunch of things,

107
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,359
Speaker 1: and it helps you in many many situations, right, yeah, exactly,

108
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,160
Speaker 1: you know, and we do this a lot. We just

109
00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 1: were stumbling over stuff in physics and we don't necessarily

110
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,560
Speaker 1: know what connects to what. So, like, you know, it's

111
00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 1: like finding the front of the elephant, and then a

112
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,479
Speaker 1: hundred years later you discover, oh, elephants have butts too,

113
00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,600
Speaker 1: And then finally somebody says, wait, put them together. You

114
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,040
Speaker 1: get a whole animal. Right, it makes much more sense.

115
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,440
Speaker 1: Elephant heads and elephant butts are not separate ideas. Um,

116
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 1: I want to be the guy, the person who wins

117
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:40,760
Speaker 1: that Nobel prize the discovery of the elephant but yeah, exactly.

118
00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,640
Speaker 1: You can put that on your tombstone. Um. But that's

119
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,960
Speaker 1: the idea, is like connecting different observations that happened to

120
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,320
Speaker 1: you know, happen at different times or different places, and

121
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 1: realizing they're part of the whole. And so that's the

122
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 1: driving ideas. Let's look at what we know and look

123
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,440
Speaker 1: for patterns, look for symmetry, symmetries that we can be

124
00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 1: used to simplify things. So that's what this supersymmetry is

125
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,360
Speaker 1: all about. It it's about simplifying the equations of the universe. Right.

126
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,599
Speaker 1: It's like finding like a finding a kind of another

127
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 1: set of patterns that make it easier to understand or

128
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,200
Speaker 1: easier to um put together right exactly. And it's a

129
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,680
Speaker 1: theoretical exercise, right you say, hey, I notice these patterns

130
00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 1: in the universe, and then you can test that. You

131
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 1: can say is this pattern real? Is it true? If

132
00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,120
Speaker 1: it is, then I expect to find this new particle

133
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,040
Speaker 1: for example. The patterns usually predict something new, and amazingly

134
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,840
Speaker 1: sometimes that works, like that's exactly what happened with the

135
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 1: Higgs Boson. Higgs and other folks were like, hey, look,

136
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,080
Speaker 1: the universe doesn't quite make sense. This is weird wrinkle

137
00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 1: that wrinkled goes away if you add one more particle,

138
00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,280
Speaker 1: and then we actually found the Higgs boson. So like

139
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,600
Speaker 1: this strategy has worked. It's not just like something we

140
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 1: you know, enjoy doing that has worked, right, Well, it's

141
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,280
Speaker 1: it's a it's a pretty cool word, supersymmetry. And and

142
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,400
Speaker 1: just to be sure, it is one word. Like you

143
00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 1: you don't write superspace symmetry. You write it like Superman.

144
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,640
Speaker 1: It's like supersymmetry. Yeah, we have long meetings about punctuation

145
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 1: and particle physics, you know, whether to hyphenate where a

146
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 1: common goes. And because people come from all over the world,

147
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 1: they have different ideas about how to do this kind

148
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 1: of stuff. But yeah, we all agree supersymmetry is one word.

149
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,600
Speaker 1: And it's very commonly abbreviated as susie s U s

150
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 1: WA because supersymmetries were just way too long to say. Right. Well,

151
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people know susie or two um,

152
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,400
Speaker 1: but we were wondering how many people out there had

153
00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,120
Speaker 1: heard of this word supersymmetry. I know, it's basically one

154
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,400
Speaker 1: of the most important motivators for governments to spend billions

155
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,080
Speaker 1: of dollars on an experiment. So you think maybe there

156
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 1: was a pr campaign, Maybe people know what this is,

157
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,080
Speaker 1: maybe they have an opinion about it. And so, as usual,

158
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 1: Daniel went out there and ask people in the street

159
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 1: if they knew what the word supersymmetry means. Here's what

160
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,960
Speaker 1: people had to say. Yeah, I've heard about it, but

161
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I've heard about it

162
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,080
Speaker 1: in some lectures I was listening to from from from

163
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 1: Fineman I think, and Paul to Rock No no idea.

164
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 1: Who would you guess just from the name, I would

165
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,199
Speaker 1: have to do something symmetrical, thanks very much from Big

166
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,040
Speaker 1: Bang Theory Ya from the TV show. Just heard it,

167
00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,719
Speaker 1: but I don't really know what it means to be.

168
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 1: To guess, what do you think big supersymmetry might be?

169
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 1: Probably has to do with symmetry and how you make

170
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,640
Speaker 1: things easier in science, probably because usually like everything that

171
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,679
Speaker 1: symmetrical makes it easier because you can divide and a

172
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,560
Speaker 1: half when it's too geometry, or it's just like easier

173
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,079
Speaker 1: to apply some rules and equations on it. So I

174
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,680
Speaker 1: guess it would just be like a simplification of something

175
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,720
Speaker 1: really complicated. Okay, awesome, I don't know what that means.

176
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,840
Speaker 1: But my guess is like something about math, like thanks

177
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,319
Speaker 1: very much, assumes something is symmetrical, or like something is

178
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,480
Speaker 1: like balanced, or even maybe no, no, never, no, I

179
00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:52,800
Speaker 1: don't have to guess what it might be. What do

180
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:59,080
Speaker 1: you think it might be symmetrical? So, as usual, the

181
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 1: Big Bang Theory has educated Americans and what a word

182
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 1: is without explaining what it actually means. I bet you

183
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,640
Speaker 1: plus love and hate that show like you probably you

184
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 1: probably don't love the writing or the way that physicists

185
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,720
Speaker 1: are portrayed. But at the same time, you know, it's

186
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,800
Speaker 1: sort of educated so many people in the words and

187
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,240
Speaker 1: the kind of maybe a little bit of the concepts

188
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,600
Speaker 1: in particle physics. Right right as they're laughing and making

189
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,800
Speaker 1: fun of physicists, they accidentally learned a few pieces of vocabulary.

190
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 1: There is a positive side of that. You're right, you

191
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't You wouldn't let people laugh at you too if

192
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,440
Speaker 1: they ended up learning something. Isn't that the premise of

193
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 1: this entire podcast? Listen laugh learn something? Anyway? Well, there

194
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,599
Speaker 1: you go. You're right up there with Sheldon and and

195
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,840
Speaker 1: I don't even even know the other characters. But no, no,

196
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,440
Speaker 1: I would totally humiliate myself if everybody in the world

197
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,000
Speaker 1: could learn a little bit more physics. Whatever you want,

198
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,040
Speaker 1: you want to do a dunk tank, you want me

199
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 1: to wear a silly costume, sign me up on man.

200
00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,640
Speaker 1: That should totally be our live traveling show for this podcast.

201
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,120
Speaker 1: You have a dunk tank with like if you answer

202
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,719
Speaker 1: a physics question correctly, you get the dunk Daniel with.

203
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,959
Speaker 1: You have like a short Anger's dunk tank. You know, oh,

204
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,800
Speaker 1: like is he dunked or is he not done? Behind

205
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,920
Speaker 1: a cave with like a box and people throw things

206
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: and then it's all connected to some quantum particle and

207
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,280
Speaker 1: you may or may not get wet mm hmm. So

208
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 1: I guess that will be my sacrifice for the art. Right,

209
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,880
Speaker 1: That's how I'm going to make sure that I'm suffering

210
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,320
Speaker 1: for our art. Right. That's good because my creative partner

211
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,480
Speaker 1: is a joy to worker. Good. He sounds like a

212
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:43,760
Speaker 1: nice guy. He's an amazing, amazing um anyway. But yeah,

213
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,120
Speaker 1: so not a lot of people have heard of the concept.

214
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,920
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone knows what super beans, and I imagine

215
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,240
Speaker 1: a lot of most people out there know what symmetry means.

216
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,360
Speaker 1: But when you put it together, suddenly it's a it's

217
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,800
Speaker 1: a new word, right. Yeah. You could hear people trying

218
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:57,679
Speaker 1: to figure it out on the fly, speculating what it

219
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,920
Speaker 1: might mean based on zero knowledge and just the atomology.

220
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, so nobody had an idea supersymmetry needs to

221
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,520
Speaker 1: be better sold, right right, Well, let's get into it

222
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,000
Speaker 1: all right, um, And for me, you know, I think

223
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,280
Speaker 1: we just let's talk about what symmetry means in the

224
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,680
Speaker 1: first place. I mean, I know that in the common usage,

225
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,320
Speaker 1: symmetry just means that it's kind of like a like

226
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,760
Speaker 1: a mirror image, like something symmetrically something else. If it's

227
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,560
Speaker 1: if it looks the same as if you were looking

228
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,760
Speaker 1: at it in a mirror. Right. Yeah. It's all about patterns, right,

229
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,920
Speaker 1: is can you do two things look similar? Right? And Um?

230
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,560
Speaker 1: For particles, we find a lot of these patterns among

231
00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 1: the particles. And what we do is we instead of

232
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 1: thinking about the individual particles the way you were talking

233
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,560
Speaker 1: about individual laws for each person, we try to think

234
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,560
Speaker 1: about the particles together in groups. So for example, you

235
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,600
Speaker 1: have the electron, and then you have the electrons, antiparticle,

236
00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,840
Speaker 1: the positron. Right, we don't really think about the electron

237
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,520
Speaker 1: and the positron is separate particles. We think about the

238
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 1: we think of them as two sides of a coin, right,

239
00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,760
Speaker 1: the positive and negative version of this part particle, and

240
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,880
Speaker 1: we think of it as one concept. It's kind of

241
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 1: like a it's the same except you flip a sign

242
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,680
Speaker 1: or you know. It's kind of like if you you

243
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,439
Speaker 1: put them electron in front of the mirror, one of

244
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,560
Speaker 1: them would be spinning one way, either one would be

245
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,320
Speaker 1: spinning kind of the other way. Right. Yeah, it's like

246
00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,959
Speaker 1: you don't think about the heads separately from the tails

247
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,840
Speaker 1: of a coin, right, There just different sides of the

248
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,240
Speaker 1: same coin, literally, And we think about particles the same way.

249
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 1: And because every particle seems to have an antiparticle, you know,

250
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 1: with some funny exceptions like the photon, that it's a

251
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 1: very useful strategy. We notice this relationship between positrons and electrons,

252
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,240
Speaker 1: between muans and anti muons, and so that's a really

253
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,679
Speaker 1: important symmetry and it it helps us ask questions. Right,

254
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,200
Speaker 1: We're like, well, why is there this symmetry? What does

255
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,560
Speaker 1: it mean? We think it reveals something deep about the universe.

256
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 1: We still don't know the answer to that one, right,

257
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,600
Speaker 1: Like why do particles have antiparticles. We have no idea,

258
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,440
Speaker 1: but I think it's an important clue about something fundamental

259
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,960
Speaker 1: about the universe. So we're always looking for these patterns,

260
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,960
Speaker 1: not just because it helps us simplify and right thing

261
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 1: down more quickly, but because we were hopeful that their

262
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: clues about what's going on on the deeper level. Right. So, okay,

263
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,840
Speaker 1: so that's what symmetry means. It's it's kind of like

264
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,920
Speaker 1: um an electron having a mirror image of itself called

265
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,680
Speaker 1: the anti electron. That's right. But symmetry works in lots

266
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,439
Speaker 1: of different ways, like there are other symmetries in particle physics.

267
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 1: If you remember the episode where we introduced sort of

268
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,120
Speaker 1: the standard model, the electron has the anti electron, but

269
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 1: also has symmetries in other ways, Like there's the mun

270
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,800
Speaker 1: and the taw. These particles are exactly the same as

271
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,400
Speaker 1: the electron, but they're heavier, right, So the electron has

272
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,240
Speaker 1: two kinds of symmetries. That's a symmetry as well, But

273
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 1: they're not they're not like they don't weigh the same,

274
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 1: they just sort of act the same, that's right. There

275
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 1: is a difference, right, So they're not the identical particle.

276
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,440
Speaker 1: But there's a pattern there because the electron is not

277
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,560
Speaker 1: the only one with too heavier cousins, right, The neutrino

278
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 1: is too heavier cousins. The up coork has too heavier cousins,

279
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 1: the down cork is too heavier cousins. There's something going

280
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 1: on where every particle has two heavier versions of itself.

281
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 1: We call the flavors. Sometimes, because we're not great in

282
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 1: particle physics about coming with new names, adopt an existing word,

283
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,120
Speaker 1: which is very confusing. Wait, so that's that's a symmetry

284
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 1: as well, these kind of heavier versions of an electron.

285
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 1: Those are absolutely really what how is that symmetric? Because

286
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,520
Speaker 1: you know it imagine symmetry means like the same or

287
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,080
Speaker 1: mirror image. Yeah, it's just you have to change your

288
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,600
Speaker 1: definition of what the mirror means. Right. So in the

289
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 1: case of positive and negative electrons, your mirror is changing

290
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 1: the charge, right, it's changing from positive to negative. But

291
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 1: that mirror can have lots of different kinds of reflections.

292
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,520
Speaker 1: Right in this case, an electron and a muon and

293
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,160
Speaker 1: a town. We think of its just different varieties of

294
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,640
Speaker 1: the same kind of particle. So sort of like a

295
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 1: three way mirror. These particles are definitely related. Right, an

296
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,960
Speaker 1: electron is much more close relationship with the muon than

297
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 1: it does with like corks. But why why do you

298
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 1: call it a symmetry? Is it in the equation? Something

299
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 1: about the equations that somehow you know what I mean?

300
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 1: You can write all those particles, all those particles have

301
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 1: the same kinds of interactions, right, they interact with the

302
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,520
Speaker 1: same forces. Uh, they interact with the forces in very

303
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,240
Speaker 1: similar ways. And so when you write down the equations,

304
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,560
Speaker 1: instead of writing down here, how here's how an electron works,

305
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 1: Here's how a mun works, Here's how a tow works.

306
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 1: Here the laws for those particles, we just write down

307
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,960
Speaker 1: one set of laws because they follow the same laws.

308
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,840
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of a difference. Each one has

309
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 1: a different mass, right, but the laws, the basic structure

310
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 1: of how it works is the same. Is it kind

311
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 1: of like different solutions to the same equation? Or Well,

312
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 1: what we don't know is why we have them, right,

313
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,920
Speaker 1: you're sort of suggesting like the reason we have three, right, Well,

314
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,640
Speaker 1: we don't know the answer to that. We don't know

315
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: why there is more than one at all, Like why

316
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 1: does this symmetry exist? And then we don't know why

317
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,120
Speaker 1: there are three in a four or seven or two. Right,

318
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,040
Speaker 1: those are deep questions. When you discover symmetry, it's helpful because,

319
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,640
Speaker 1: as we said, it gives you a clue about some

320
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,000
Speaker 1: deep questions, but doesn't always give you the answer, right,

321
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 1: sort of raises the question. So in this case, when

322
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,400
Speaker 1: when you say symmetry, you kind of mean like an

323
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 1: imperfect copy. Yeah, exactly, and the perfection there can vary, right,

324
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,399
Speaker 1: Like the positron of the electron are really exactly the

325
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 1: same except for the charge um. In the case of

326
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 1: the electron, the mu and the too, they're very similar.

327
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,040
Speaker 1: There are some differences, the most important one is the mass.

328
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,719
Speaker 1: So you can have more or less perfect symmetries. None

329
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,959
Speaker 1: of these symmetries are exact, so just sort of like

330
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 1: guiding patterns that we used to organize how how we

331
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,960
Speaker 1: write down the equations. Okay, so if you had to,

332
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,920
Speaker 1: if you had to christen this thing another name, would

333
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,160
Speaker 1: you still call it some symmetry or would you maybe

334
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,680
Speaker 1: use another word? Oh? I think symmetry is a nice word.

335
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 1: You know, symmetry shows like aesthetic purity, right, I mean,

336
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 1: when you're looking at art, you like symmetry. But when

337
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,040
Speaker 1: you look at a face. Scientists have like discovered right

338
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,879
Speaker 1: that symmetric faces are considered the most beautiful. So I

339
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,120
Speaker 1: think there's a connection between symmetry and beauty and simplicity.

340
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 1: So I like the word symmetry. Yeah, No, I think

341
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty nice. It's hard to spell for her

342
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 1: young students. I've I've seen a creatively spelled in lots

343
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 1: of different way is. But it's a nice word. Well,

344
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: hold on, I'm still stuck a little bit in symmetry.

345
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 1: So why is symmetry Plano mild manner symmetry? Why is

346
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,679
Speaker 1: that um important in the equations of physics because you

347
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 1: see it or it's it's something that helps you solve

348
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,919
Speaker 1: the equations. Well, it's for the same reason that you

349
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 1: um you said earlier about like writing laws. You wouldn't

350
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,199
Speaker 1: want to write down a different law for everybody. You'd notice, Hey,

351
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm rinning now all the same laws, except I'm just

352
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 1: substituting Jorge some places and Daniel in other places. Maybe

353
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,880
Speaker 1: I should just write one law for everybody, right, And

354
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,120
Speaker 1: so that's what we're doing with symmetries, is we're trying

355
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,120
Speaker 1: to find these patterns to simplify things. We could say, hey, look,

356
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 1: the same laws apply to the electron and the muan

357
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,520
Speaker 1: and the tow. We just need to tweak this a

358
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 1: little bit, and the same rules apply. So that's what

359
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,360
Speaker 1: we're going for. Maybe, Okay, So maybe when you when

360
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 1: you say symmetry, you actually means like same rules apply. Yeah,

361
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: Or you could think of it like a pattern, right,

362
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,880
Speaker 1: all right, So it's kind of like you might say,

363
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,119
Speaker 1: like a living in the US is very symmetric to

364
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,360
Speaker 1: living in Suitland in that blah blah blah blah blah

365
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 1: blah blah, and it's kind of like it's it's the

366
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,240
Speaker 1: magrick thing that it's sort of like the same rules apply,

367
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,200
Speaker 1: or there's some sort of pattern between living here in

368
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,160
Speaker 1: the vein in Switzerland. Yeah. I don't know if there's

369
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 1: much in common between living in Switzerland living in the US.

370
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 1: I've lived in both places. They're pretty different experiences. Um,

371
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,439
Speaker 1: I guess they both eat yogurt. Super symmetric. It's not

372
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 1: a super symmetric analogy, Daniel, Exactly right. That was not

373
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 1: a super analogy about symmetry. It's an underwhelming symmetry, yeah, exactly.

374
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,080
Speaker 1: But you know, you could look for example, what are

375
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 1: the laws of different countries, And you might say, hey, look,

376
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,399
Speaker 1: there is these underlying things everybody wants to the value

377
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: of property and everyone who wants life, and everyone wants liberty,

378
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 1: and you could say those are inherent about being human.

379
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,200
Speaker 1: Is something about forming a human society that makes people

380
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: want these things, and so we should encode those as

381
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,640
Speaker 1: the bedrock principles of humanity. Right, so we call those

382
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 1: human rights. You so and and and you've learned something

383
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 1: about humanity that way by identifying in these core principles. Right.

384
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,479
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a perspective. It's like when

385
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 1: you say you want the laws of physics to be symmetric,

386
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 1: you're saying you want them to be kind of a universal,

387
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 1: and you want them to be applicable to many different things,

388
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 1: and you want them to not very on a Willie

389
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 1: Neely basis, wanted to be kind of rock solid. Yeah, exactly.

390
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 1: Symmetries allow us to write these things more compactly, write

391
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: to write down fewer laws because we identify patterns and

392
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 1: so the same laws can apply to different kinds of phenomena. Right, Okay,

393
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 1: So that's kind of regular mild manner. Clark Kent glasses wearing.

394
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 1: Symmetry is some sort of like a perspective on the

395
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,360
Speaker 1: laws of physics that say that it's, um, it's sort

396
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 1: of applicable everywhere. So then um, but now they're supersymmetry.

397
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 1: Are you ready to put spandex on the look like

398
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: the clothes off and see what he's wearing underneath? When

399
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: making a family friendly podcast, Well, he's taking his clothes up,

400
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: but he's got an outfit on underneath. Folks. Okay, well

401
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: it's get into supersymmetry, but first let's take a quick break. Okay,

402
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 1: so that's a that's a pretty good breakdown of symmetry,

403
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: which is, um, it's kind of like the perspective that

404
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: things should, um, they have a pattern in nature and

405
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: things should have fundamental laws that don't change. Is because

406
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: you move from one place to the other or from

407
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: one particle to the other. Right, Yeah, it's yeah exactly.

408
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 1: It's like if you notice, hey, there's sort of two

409
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: different kinds of things. What can we find that relates them?

410
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: How can we think of them the same way? Right?

411
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: Do we have to have two different totally separate categories

412
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 1: or can we say there's a relationship between them and

413
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 1: understand them and sort of in the context of a

414
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 1: larger idea. Right, it's like, why do we have Democrats

415
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: and Republicans? Oh, they're both just political parties, right, that's

416
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: sort of the symmetry between that. Okay, so then now

417
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 1: let's get into the topic of the podcast. Um supersymmetry.

418
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: So that's like the regular symmetry, but more so or

419
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: I guess the question is like, what are an all

420
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: symmetries super? Like? What's special about supersymmetries? Supersymmetry is called

421
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 1: super because the folks that named it were like grandiose

422
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: in their ideas. Um, it's called super because it sort

423
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,959
Speaker 1: of encompasses the whole set of particles. Here's the idea.

424
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: The idea is that we noticed that there are kind

425
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 1: of two kinds of particles out there that we've discovered.

426
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: There's the particles that make up stuff, right, the matter particles,

427
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: electrons and corks and all that kind of stuff. Those

428
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: particles have a technical name called fermions. Then there's a

429
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 1: different kind of particle. These are These are particles that

430
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: describe the forces. So the ones that like are responsible

431
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: for electromagnetism, the photon or the weak nuclear force the

432
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: W and Z boson or the strong force the glue on.

433
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: These particles are different. We call them bosons, and the

434
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 1: difference between them is technical and we don't need to

435
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: get deeply into it. We have these two different kinds

436
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: of particles, the fermions which are matter particles, and the bosons,

437
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: which are the force particles, and I always get them confused.

438
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: So maybe for this podcast, let's just call the matter

439
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,959
Speaker 1: particles and force particles. About that? Sure that sounds good,

440
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: a matter particles and force particles, And that's odd to

441
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: people who are like, that's weird that we have two

442
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: different kinds, And they thought, what if what if there's

443
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: sort of a symmetry, right, what if there's a connection,

444
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 1: Like what if every force particle had some sort of

445
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: matter particle that was like its reflection, right, imagine like

446
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: this is the mirror now, force versus matter. What if

447
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: every matter particle had a corresponding force particle and every

448
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 1: forest particle had a corresponding matter particle. Wouldn't that be

449
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: pretty right? Wouldn't that be a nice connection between these two?

450
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,959
Speaker 1: Otherwise just disparate groups of particles, These just two lists

451
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: that we have. Yeah, well that's weird, isn't it, because

452
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: force and matter are so different. But you're saying that

453
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: in particle physics. In quantum physics, you just treat them

454
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 1: all a particles. We do treat them as particles. Yeah,

455
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: and forced particles and matter particles we treat them a

456
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: little bit different in quantum field theory. Um. But we'd

457
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: like to see the connection between them, right. We have

458
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 1: like this one group of matter particles and this other

459
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 1: group of force particles, and we're wondering, like, why do

460
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: we have two different kinds, and why is there this

461
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: one list longer than that other list? Is there a

462
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: way we can sort of fit them all together into

463
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: one grand symmetry that I dare say a super symmetry? Right? Oh,

464
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: I see, So, like the matter particles are maybe symmetric

465
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: among themselves, and the forced particles are maybe symmetric among themselves.

466
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: And so you've always had these two groups, and so

467
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: you're wondering, are they maybe just reflections of each other

468
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: across board? Yeah? Exactly the problem is that there isn't

469
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: really an easy way to make them correspond to each other.

470
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: Like there's no forced particle that corresponds to the electron

471
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: and there's no like matter particle that corresponds to the

472
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: photon for example. So if this is gonna work, you

473
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: have to invent a reflection particle for each one. Right,

474
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: so the every matter particle have to invent a new

475
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: force particle that we haven't yet found, and for every

476
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: force particle you have to invent a new matter particle

477
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 1: that we haven't yet seen. Wait, so like, um, if

478
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: I have a matter particle like the electron or like

479
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: a cork, you're saying that if there if there are supersymmetry,

480
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: then that means that there's a forced particle that is

481
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: just like the cork or the electron, but it's a

482
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: forced particle and something about a change that makes it

483
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: a forced particle and not a matter particle. Exactly, if

484
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: you have that symmetry, there should be a reflection for

485
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: every particle, just like well, we know there are particles

486
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: and antiparticles. So if there's some particle out there, you say, well,

487
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: it should have an antiparticle, right in the same way

488
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: we say, well the electron, there should be some forced

489
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: particle that corresponds to it, and there should be some

490
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 1: matter correspond particle that corresponds to the photon. Why couldn't

491
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: you have what couldn't the photon be the supersymmetric version

492
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: of the electron? Do you know what I mean? Like,

493
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: why can't we just match them up? Well, we want

494
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: them to have the same mass, right, because that would

495
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: be the nicest symmetry. And so the photon of the

496
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: electron have nothing like the same mass, and then what

497
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: would match up with the muan right, and what we

498
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: match up with the tow So we want sort of

499
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: all the symmetries in the matter particles to be reflected

500
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 1: in the symmetries and the force particles, um. And then

501
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of other technical reasons why that just

502
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: can't work. Well, the important thing is that they have

503
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: really silly names, right, That's the away from this exactly.

504
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: So what they did was they saying, well, we can't

505
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: just invent a bunch of crazy new names for all

506
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: these particles, right, we need a name for the particle

507
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: that's the force version of the electron, and the particle

508
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: that's the force version of the cork, and the particle

509
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: that's the matter version of the photon. So they came

510
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: up with a rule for how to name the reflection particles.

511
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: And the rule is if you take a matter particle

512
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: and you want to name its force reflection, right, the

513
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: particle the force particle. That's it's sort of supersymmetric partner's hypothetical. Hypothetically,

514
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: we haven't discovered them. Like if there's a Swiss version

515
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: of korhe, it would be named this. That's right. And

516
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: what you do is you put an S in front

517
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: of the name, right, so you have a particle. The

518
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: super symmetric version is a sparticle. And so for example,

519
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: the electron, it's super symmetric version. The fourth version of

520
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: it is the selectron. Why is it one s and

521
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: not two s? Is? You know, like supersymmetry should be

522
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: like this selectron. And that's why because we don't want

523
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: to be sounding like all the time in our meetings.

524
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: It gets pretty silly, like we have the top cork

525
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: and it's super symmetric version is the stop cork, right,

526
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,479
Speaker 1: or the bottom cork and it's verse. It's super symmetric

527
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: version is the spottom cork. Right. Wow, that sounds like

528
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 1: like an invitation for funny meetings exactly. Um, everybody who

529
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: learns these rules has a good giggle over it. For

530
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: a few weeks and then it just becomes a part

531
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: of your day. Um and and and then in the

532
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: other direction, if you have a force particle like the photon,

533
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: and you need a name for the matter version of it,

534
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: you add eno to the end. So, for example, a

535
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: photon is a force particle, it's a matter version would

536
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: be a photino. So if there's a Daniel in Switzerland

537
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: and you're wondering, what would the Daniel be named in

538
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: the US, it would be Daniel Leno. Daniel Leno, Yeah, exactly,

539
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: Daniel Leno and sorehe that's the super symmetric version of

540
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: this podcast Daniel universe. But can you can you just

541
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: do that? Can you just post the existence of a

542
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: force particle you've never seen? Wouldn't that? Isn't that weird?

543
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: Isn't that like making up a whole new force in

544
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: the universe? Exactly it is. But that's what you want

545
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: to do, right when you make a when you observe

546
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: a pattern, the next thing to do is to say, well,

547
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: if this pattern holes, if it really is true, what

548
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: can I predict that hasn't been seen before. That's how

549
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: you test it, right, That's how they That's how the

550
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: Higgs boson was verified, they saw this pattern. The pattern

551
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: is complete. Only of the Higgs boson exists, and they

552
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: looked for it found it. Boom pattern probably correct. In

553
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: the case of supersymmetry. You say, well, what if every

554
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: particle has this supersymmetric reflection. If so, that all these

555
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: other particles should exist. And it's crazy because what you're

556
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: doing is doubling the number of particles. Right, you say, Okay,

557
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: we have twelve matter particles and five for particles. Now

558
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to say we have twenty four particles and

559
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: ten particles. Right, So it's um, it's a big prediction. Yeah,

560
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: it's It's kind of like saying, hey, I have a theory.

561
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: I think that for every person in the US, there's

562
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: an there's a Swiss version in Switzerland of that person.

563
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: Everyone in in Switzerland has a as version in the

564
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: US and n't seen any of them yet. Yeah, they're

565
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 1: all hidden somewhere underneath, underneath, and exactly. And when you

566
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: make a theory of physics, you have to explain all

567
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: of that. You have to say, here's something you could

568
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: do to prove my theory is correct. Here's a prediction

569
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: I can make. You will go and find this particle,

570
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: and you also have to explain why we haven't seen

571
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: it yet, right, because if they're all these other particles

572
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: out there in the universe that the universe can make,

573
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: you have to explain why we didn't see them yet.

574
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: And the standard answer was, until very recently, the standard

575
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: answer was why they were a little too heavy. That those,

576
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: for some reason, the supersymmetric version of our particles, were

577
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: all too heavy to just like hang out in the universe.

578
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: They didn't last for very long because they were so heavy.

579
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: So you have to give me ten billion dollars to

580
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: build a particle collider so I can create the energy

581
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: density needed to make these particles that would then prove

582
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: my crazy theory, right, which would then prove my crazy

583
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: theory if we had found it. Yeah, you're like, it's

584
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: not my fault that you can't see them. They they're

585
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: just kind of a little overweight. Yeah, exactly, they're a

586
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: little overweight. And that was the key that, right there

587
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: is the crux of it. We had to say, all right,

588
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: if you give us ten billion dollars, will build a

589
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: collider that's such and such big that can search for

590
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: particles up to a certain energy, because remember, the bigger

591
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: the collider, the more energy you're pouring into it, right,

592
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: because you can push the particles faster and faster, which

593
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: means the heavier new particles you can make. It's directly correlation,

594
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: like the more money you spend, the bigger the collider,

595
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: the heavier particles you can make. Than The question was,

596
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: is this collider big enough to find supersymmetry? Is supersymmetry

597
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: sort of in the next chunk of unexplored territory that

598
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: can be searched by this collider. Okay, so that that's

599
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: what supersymmetry is. It's the theory that all the particles

600
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: have these crazy twins hidden out there in the universe,

601
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: and so if you give me ten billion dollars, I'm

602
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: pretty I'm pretty sure I'm gonna find them. That's right.

603
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: And it was a fun idea, and it was invented

604
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: in the seventies and eighties and played with and um

605
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: people thought, hey, this is kind of cool. It's cute mathematically,

606
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: but it's kind of a big prediction, you know. But

607
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: then people notice that not only was acute mathematically, but

608
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: it actually solved a different problem we have in there

609
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: in physics. And so if it was true, it would

610
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: be like really nice. It would like tie up a

611
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: bunch of different loose ends all at the same time. Oh,

612
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: I see it's Um, it's a crazy theory, but it's

613
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: the answer to more than one puzzle in physics. Yeah.

614
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: For example, one puzzle we have in physics is like,

615
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: why does the Higgs boson have the mass that it does.

616
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 1: We don't know why. Um, we can calculate what massive

617
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: should have, and the calculation is kind of complicated. But

618
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: the short version of the story is that force particles

619
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: make them make it push the mass in one direction,

620
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: and matter particles push in the other direction. And so

621
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: and these and these are really big pushes right there,

622
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: push it by by huge amounts. And so the fact

623
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: that the two sort of balance out to give us

624
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: a Higgs Boson that's not like ridiculously heavy. It seems

625
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: like a big coincidence. You know. It's like, Um, you

626
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: have two different numbers that happen to almost cancel out,

627
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: and you think, oh, there's no relationship between them. It's

628
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: a coincidence. Well, if every force particle has a matter particle,

629
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: then it's very natural for them to cancel each other.

630
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: Out because there's a symmetry there, right, and everything that's

631
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: pushing one way, it gets automatically pushed the other way.

632
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: So it would sort of solve that problem, like in

633
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: a really nice, nice way. Like when I first heard

634
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: that idea of was like, Oh, that's clever, that's beautiful.

635
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: That's like a really nice natural explanation, right, because a

636
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: coincidence in the universe. You guys don't like coincidences, Yeah,

637
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: coincidences beg the question You're like, is that really a

638
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: coincidence or is there an explanation? Right? Um, It's like

639
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: if you discover, hey, this supermarket seems to sell the

640
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: same number of hot dogs and hot dog buns every year,

641
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: I wonder why. Right, Well, it turns out people buy

642
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: hot dogs and hot dog buns together for a reason, right,

643
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: They're connected. Um, And so you want to discover these

644
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: apparent coincidences because they tell you something about the universe

645
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: or about hot dogs. It's kind of like if you

646
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: if you find a if you do find an identical

647
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: Jorge in Switzerland, you'd be like, that's too much of

648
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: a coincidence. They must have there must be something going

649
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: on that somehow split them apart. And put them in

650
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: each country. Exactly. If I ever went to Switzerland and

651
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: met soorhe, then thank you, Um, yeah, exactly, I would

652
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: think that that's a clue. Right, there's something going on.

653
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: And so that's the idea of supersymmetry, and if it's

654
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: solved a bunch of problems, it might even explain dark matter, right,

655
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: And so it's a really it's a tantalizing idea because

656
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: they could they could kill a lot of birds with

657
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: one stone, kill a lot of matter and forces and

658
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: one Yeah, you can win five Nobel Prizes with one discovery. Wow.

659
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: All right, let's get into whether or not this is

660
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: actually real and if we you have found evidence for it.

661
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. All right, So

662
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: that's supersymmetry. We um, we broke it down a little bit,

663
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: and you said it might explain dark matter. What does

664
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: that mean? Well, there's a particle. A one of the

665
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: super symmetric particles is something that doesn't turn into anything else.

666
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: It just sort of hangs out because it's the lightest

667
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: one can't turn into anything else. And so if it exists,

668
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: it might be the dark matter particle. Right, So it

669
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: might be the dark matter is made of particles, and

670
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: the particles is made out of might be super symmetric particles. Wow,

671
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: is it the super symmetric version of the photon? Like

672
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: that would be cool? Yeah, exactly. The opposite of light

673
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: is dark matter. Let's that's that's beautiful. We're writing right

674
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: there there you go. See you're searching for beauty in

675
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: your answers. Right. You don't want just any answer, you

676
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: want poetry, right, and that's what this is for us.

677
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: Symmetry is the physicist version of poetry, except it doesn't rhyme. Oh,

678
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: I know it doesn't rhyme because all the particles and

679
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: with the same kenoes you write a pretty silly song

680
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: using only supersymmetric particle names. Yeah exactly. Okay, So let's

681
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: get into whether it's real or not. So is this

682
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: theory real? Have they found evidence for it? We have

683
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: exactly zero evidence that supersymmetry is really exactly we have

684
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: symmetric So in a way, you sort of confirmed the

685
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: beauty of the universe. No, the only thing supersymmetry has

686
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: going for it is its elegance. Is its beauty is

687
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: that it would solve these problems. But you know, nature

688
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 1: is not interested in the ideas that we think are beautiful.

689
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: There are lots of gorgeous theories out there that turned

690
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: out to not be true. And so we you know,

691
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people said we would find supersymmetry and

692
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: we turned on the Large Change and collider um, but

693
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: we didn't. They thought you would find like these crazy

694
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: hypothetical particles to just start popping out of the collider. Yeah,

695
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: and it's pretty exciting when you turn on a new collider,

696
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: a collider and an energy nobody has ever collided particles

697
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: that before. You could discover something in minutes, right, It

698
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: really is like landing on a new new planet that

699
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: nobody's ever been to before, nobody's ever created collisions of

700
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: this energy. So it could be the first time you

701
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: had enough energy to make these particles, and it could

702
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: be that they're just like you know, flew out of

703
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: the collider like crazy. So the first few days the

704
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: Large Hadron Collider, everybody was very excited, Right, We're like,

705
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: what's in the data, what's in the data? Did you

706
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: discover supersymmetry? Is it there? Is it there? And there

707
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: was a big community of theorists who really believed that

708
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: we would find it and that we would find it

709
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 1: very early on, but we didn't. So far. The only

710
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: thing we found that the large Hadron collider that we

711
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: didn't know about before was the Higgs boson. Huge triumph,

712
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: but um. A lot of people sold supersymmetry as a

713
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 1: potential discovery of the large hGe On collider and so

714
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: far not there. Maybe they were just hedging in case

715
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: they didentified the Higgs. They're like, Wow, we might not

716
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: find the Higgs, but we might find Susie. Yeah, it

717
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 1: could have been that we didn't see the Higgs, right.

718
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: We weren't guaranteed right, We didn't know um. And one

719
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: question is like how far away is Susie? How heavy

720
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: are these particles? Are these particles real and part of

721
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: the nature, but the large hGe On collider is just

722
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: not quite big enough to find them? Right? Or is

723
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: it that there there's like super far away and you'd

724
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: have to build a collider the size of the Solar

725
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: System to make them. We don't really have a good

726
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: answer to that question. We don't really good theoretical clues

727
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: that tell us how big the collider has to be.

728
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: The theory doesn't tell you what's the maximum, Like you

729
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: can just keep going. The theory doesn't tell you, well,

730
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: if you haven't found them by this mask, then they

731
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: probably don't exist. Right, the most beautiful version of supersymmetry

732
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: all the particles had the same mass as their super particles.

733
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: Now we know that's not true because there if the

734
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: electron had a superparticle that had the same mass, we

735
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: would have found it already. I like how you say

736
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: the most beautiful, Like you guys have beauty contest for theories, simplest,

737
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: most poetic theories, right, Um, you know, and uh, some

738
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: of these some of these series look great in the

739
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: swimsuit competition. They stumble when they asked them of geopolitics,

740
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: but you know, they do their best, and then the

741
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: judges flip a sign saying ten seven. You can have

742
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: versions of supersymmetry where the supersymmetric particles are like, way, way,

743
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: way too heavy for us to ever practically make them

744
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: in any collider we would build, So we're not guaranteed. Yeah,

745
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: so there's different flavors of supersymmetry, and some of them

746
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 1: are more super than others. Yeah, there's a huge number

747
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: of supersymmetric theories, and we've ruled out a bunch of them,

748
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: but there's a huge number left, so you can't really

749
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: kill supersymmetries. It's always got another rock for it itself

750
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: to hide under. Um. But as I was saying before,

751
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: there was a controversy because people thought maybe the theory

752
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: community was too bullish on whether the LATEC was big

753
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: enough to find supersymmetry. And now that we didn't, like,

754
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: you know, should they rethink how they made those arguments

755
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: because we're in the beginning stages of arguing for the

756
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: next collider, right, and people are wondering, what this wouldn't

757
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: be big enough to find supersymmetry. How do you know

758
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: you were wrong last time? Should we believe you this time? Right? Well,

759
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:30,919
Speaker 1: I don't know if I told you, but I once

760
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: gave the keynote address at a supersymmetry conference. Did you

761
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: give us super talk? It was you give two super talks?

762
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: It was it was super ansymmetric. Did you give it

763
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: forward and then backwards? That's right? I walked down stage

764
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: and then I walked off stage. But no, yeah, yeah,

765
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: I talked a lot of physicists that they're physicists there,

766
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: and they were, you know a lot of them were

767
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: like really convinced that supersymmetry was is true, and and

768
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: I was like, how do you what makes you so

769
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: confident or when? And it was really sort of came

770
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: down to a sense of faith or a sense of

771
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: like like you said, like the like this believe that

772
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: the universe has to be beautiful and it has to

773
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: be symmetric in this way. Yeah, a lot of people

774
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: who bought that story. Personally, me not interested. I think ridiculous.

775
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 1: I've never spent any of my professional scientific energy searching

776
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: for supersymmetry, and I have no interest in it. Really.

777
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: Why what makes you so down on it? There's a

778
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 1: few reasons. Um. One is it's a bit too complex

779
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 1: for me. I mean, you're predicting a lot of different particles, right,

780
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: and it's sort of a big it's a big thing

781
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: to predict. Um. I prefer a sort of simpler, more

782
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: compact answer. Um. And But I think more fundamentally, I'm

783
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: not into particle physics to confirm theoretical ideas. I'm not.

784
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: My job is not to say yes or no to

785
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,320
Speaker 1: the ideas some folks have in their office. My interesting

786
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: particle physics is to explore my scientific fantasy, is not

787
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: to discover something that Professor x y Z predicted, But

788
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: to discover something weird unanticipated, it's something that makes Professor

789
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: x y Z go what that can't happen? Um, That's

790
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: why I'm an experimentalist, because I think I see it

791
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: as a as an exploration, right, right, But you need

792
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: the theories to tell you if what you're seeing is

793
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 1: weird or not. Right, Like, if there weren't any theories,

794
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 1: you wouldn't know it is weird. Well, you can discover

795
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: a particle that nobody's ever seen before, right and say, oh,

796
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: what's this? How does it work? What does it do?

797
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: How heavy is it? How does it interact? Right? What

798
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: does that mean? And you know, then the theorists can

799
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: get started understanding how it fits into the other patterns.

800
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: But you can definitely have experiment be the leader. Right.

801
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: There was a period in particle physics earlier this century

802
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: where basically every time you turned on the collider you

803
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: found a new particle and nobody knew what they were

804
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: and it was a it was a huge mess, and

805
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: it was called the particles Zoo And that one must

806
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: have been really fun, you know. Um, these days I

807
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: just want to just like fuzzy little particles actually I'm

808
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: totally anti zoo. Um things, those are crazy. They're locking

809
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: up these beautiful animals and cages. Um. That's the topic

810
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: of a different podcast. So my interest in particle physics

811
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: is more about looking for something unanticipated than box checking

812
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: the ideas of other people. Um. But it's a huge area,

813
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: like some big fraction of particle physicists search for supersymmetry. Right,

814
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: But you're saying that you're telling me earlier that some

815
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: people a lot of people that are have given up.

816
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: They're like, all right, forget it, it's not real. M. Yeah. Well,

817
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people feel like if supersymmetry is going

818
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 1: to be real and it's going to be natural and

819
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: beautiful and explain all these things, it has to be

820
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: light that you can't have super duper heavy particles. They

821
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: don't like the versions of supersymmetry with the particles are

822
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: too heavy for us to have found them. Yeah. Um,

823
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: And so I think a good number of people have

824
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 1: given up on it or are thinking about other ideas well.

825
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: I certainly hope that you guys find that the universe

826
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: is beautiful and has perfect facial structure, the symmetric and

827
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: wins A lot of beauty contests. Well, I'm sure that

828
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 1: whatever we find about the universe, it will be beautiful,

829
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 1: and it will be symmetric, and it will be incredible.

830
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: It just might not be the idea of beauty that

831
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: we went out looking for. You know, when we go

832
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: out and look for things on other planets, we expect

833
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: to find incredible, mind blowing things. We just don't predict

834
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: them in advance, right, and we embrace that. We look

835
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: forward to being surprised by nature. That's the whole idea

836
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,959
Speaker 1: of science. Yeah. I think what you're saying is giving.

837
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: They should give you the billion dollars and not this theories.

838
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: My checking account is open, so people free to send

839
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: me checks for billions of dollars. Yes, that's how you agree?

840
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: All right? What's our Veno account? Daniel Venoll and Daniel

841
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: and Jorge dot com. Yeah exactly, or you know, I

842
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: accept gold blue Yon also. You know that's fine. Great.

843
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,479
Speaker 1: Do you accept menos and zenos? Exactly? Only a lot

844
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: of them, though it takes a big pile and mean

845
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: a certain arrangement. All right, thank you very much. That's

846
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: a supersymmetry. I hope you guys learned what it is

847
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: and it's so super and it's something that we might discover.

848
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: So maybe by the time this podcast comes out, we

849
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: will have a hint of supersymmetry. Or maybe it will

850
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: take another hundred years. Nobody knews until then, See you

851
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: next time. If you still have a question after listening

852
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 1: to all these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd

853
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter,

854
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge That's one Word, or

855
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: email us at Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

856
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

857
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of I Heart Radio. From

858
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: More podcast from my Heart Radio visit the I Heart

859
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

860
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 1: favorite shows.