WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Did Elizabeth 1 have a child? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.480 Thinking Sideways is not supported by a desert native in 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:07.040 hip waders. Instead, it's supported by the generous donations of 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:10.320 our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash thinking 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:18.759 sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't understand. 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:28.680 You never know stories of things we simply don't know 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:35.000 the answer to. Hie there, Welcome to another episode of 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:39.000 Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always by Steve. This 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.240 week we're gonna be talking about the disappearance of Devon. 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.159 What happened to Devon from Thinking Sideways. She was supposed 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.360 to be at the recording studios at seven pm. It's 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.440 seven oh five and she's not here, alright? Theories she 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:57.200 ran away and starting new life. Can you get that? Yeah? Sorry, guys, Sorry, 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:04.120 I'm sorry, Okay, sorry, okay, okay. Hey, Well, time to 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:06.320 find a new mystery. Hang on a second while you 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:10.520 go to the Google. Uh, please enjoy this really RESTful 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:25.760 elevator music. Hi there, Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:31.240 I'm Joe, joined as always by and Yeah. This week 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.080 we're gonna talk about a few mysteries surrounding Queen Elizabeth, 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.039 the First of England. Some of you guys may have 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:38.800 heard of her once or twice. Yeah, I guess. And 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.640 these are a couple of different mysteries that have been 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:43.840 suggested to us by so many people that I'm not 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:45.360 going to give you guys a shout out. It's to 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.920 say thanks for the suggestions. Well, there's a lot of 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.040 mysteries around her. There are some mysteries around here. One 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.640 of the first mysteries that she was involved in was 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.279 the misplaced colony of Roanoke. Also that as a colony, 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:58.840 we can't seem to put our hands on it. The 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:03.480 moment calling me of nothing to see here, yeah, exactly, 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:07.000 please move along, yeah yeah, don't mind the alien burn 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.760 marks stuff. Yeah, but she was involved in that because 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.880 she wanted to get England a tohede in the New World. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.280 All the Europeans were doing that. It was it was 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.640 all the rage back in those days. Yeah, she granted 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.040 a charter to Sir Walter Rawleigh. So you found a 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.280 settlement in what would become Virginia, which is named after 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.920 Elizabeth because she was the Virgin Queen. Yeah yeah, nick yeah, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.560 good Queen Bass. And next she had one or two 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.200 other nicknames, a lot of them. Yeah, she did and 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.560 here's but another mystery about her is people have been 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.520 wondering for a long long time they still are today, 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:43.360 is did she ever have a child? And it is 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.399 one of them. That's a that's a big one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.200 And I'm just gonna jump in here real quick and 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.600 say that historic mysteries like this it will probably not 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.239 surprise any of our listeners bother me a little bit. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.560 I am not super stoked in the idea of the 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:03.359 public fascination of was this woman of virgin Was she not? 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.520 Did she have a child? Did she not? Though I 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.080 understand in this one circumstance that it is of historic 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.560 significance and totally worth an episode. So if I seem 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.960 a little cranky, that's why. Sorry God, Yeah, well the 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:23.120 is it so box away? Yeah? By yeah, I expect 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.280 a little crankiness there, um, but you know it is. 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.480 It is kind of something to ponder because she said 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.040 she was she said she was going to remain unmarried 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.600 in Virgin and YadA, YadA, YadA. But you may big 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:35.240 deal out of it. Yeah. The royal courts back in 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.200 those days were kind of libidinous places. Yeah, oh yeah, 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:39.960 a lot. There's a lot of hanky packing going on. 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.080 Pull that one on. Yeah, I gotta be honest with 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:44.960 the stuff that I've read about the things that went 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.080 on in court and all of the political dealings. I 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.200 know I've probably said this before and I'll probably say 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.840 it again. I don't even understand how the royalty managed 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.480 to exist with all of the games they were. But 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.320 then again, I don't understand how the political system in 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.120 our own country, which is pretty similar, has managed to 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.440 get along as long as it has. Yeah. So luckily, 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:08.680 the mystery that we're talking about is did Elizabeth have 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.080 a kid? Not? Was she a virgin, which is one 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.920 that people have suggested and I have outright refused every 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.240 single time because I just I don't care to talk 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.599 about that. But we are going to talk about today, right, 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.040 did she have whether she had a kid? So let's 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.160 get to it. Let's solve this. Yeah, but before I 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:25.880 get into the mystery thing, I think I should give 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.640 everybody a little background on Elizabeth the first Yeah, in 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.560 case you haven't heard of her. Yeah, that's a little 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.480 history lesson here. It'll be brief. Don't worry, don't go away. Well, 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.960 I watched the Tutors, so I know all this Okay, 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:40.360 Elizabeth was born the same thrones, right yeah, real history, 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.680 the documentary with real dragons. Yeah. Well, I mean England 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.080 always had that giant ice wall, right yeah, okay, sweet, 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.120 go ahead you okay. So she was born fifty three, 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:52.680 the daughter of Henry the Eighth and Anne Bolan, who 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:57.240 was his second wife and radiate. Um. Yeah, and that's sure. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.160 You guys have all heard of Henry the eighth and 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.400 the sixth wife. But if you have, and here's a 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.800 quick rundown. Henry was a second monarch in the Tutor line, 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.200 and his first wife, Catherine of Aragon, had a daughter 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.920 who would later become Queen Mary the First. And then 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:15.280 Henry got impatient with Catherine because she had actually six children, 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.200 but only one of them survived. Three of them were 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.640 still born, and two of them died shortly after childbirth, 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.680 and so he she hadn't given him a son, and 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:28.200 he really really strangely valued it was very much of 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.360 the time. Yeah. Uh. So he decided to move on 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.600 and so you found found this new girl in boleyn 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.640 uh and married her. There's one hit. So he needed 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.560 to persuade the pope to annul his marriage to Katherine 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.880 and the boat said no, understandably that the church does 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:50.320 not condone, does not condone divorce. Yeah, they're a little 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.480 more lenient on these days, but at that time they 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:57.359 were like, nah, yeah, it was seriously, seriously, I just 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.400 I love the fact that the Church of England was 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.840 created because the king was like, you know what, I 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.919 don't really like my wife anymore. That's the whole reason 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.040 for it. I really want to bang this more attractive, 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.719 younger chick. I mean, I Steve his like laugh, He's 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.160 like about following his chair right here. But no, I mean, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.800 like that's That's basically what Henry said was I'm not 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.440 interested in my wife anymore. I'm interested in someone else. Now. 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:25.080 He created an entire new church and religion basically because 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.560 he wanted to do something else. There's been quite a 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.520 few figures in history who have done very similar things. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:36.039 You know, it's pretty interesting. Anyway, that's the story. After 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.800 marrying Anne Boleyn, she gave birth to Elizabeth, and then 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.360 two and a half years after Elizabeth was born, apparently 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.200 Henry was getting a little tired, was ready to move 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.760 on again. He wanted somebody younger. Yeah, or maybe Anne 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.839 was just too naggy or something, but yeah, that's what 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.760 it was. Yeah, Henry accuser of adultery and had her 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.440 put to death. Another character I should mention here is 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:00.600 Kat Ashley. Catherine Ashley. She was appointed as Elizabeth Governess 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.839 when she was four years old, and that's Elizabeth Elizabeth, 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.360 and that was that was a prestigious title, right, like 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:11.200 we should be clear it was not just of a princess. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.720 it's a serious thing. I mean yeah, And she was 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:23.280 well educated, Cat, that was. And she taught to Elizabeth astronomy, geography, history, mathematics, French, Italian, Spanish, Flemish. 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.680 I was I was actually really surprised when I was 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.200 reading that. I never realized that Elizabeth the First had 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:33.280 such a knack for languages. She evidently was really really 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.920 good at it, which I don't know why they caught 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.000 me so off guard. But when you start learning languages 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.920 at form, that's a very good point. That makes a 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.520 big difference. I think. Yeah, you know, I know I've 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:45.480 mentioned this before, but I have a fair number of 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.920 friends who are very fluent in multiple languages, and all 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.960 of them, even if they started learning the languages that 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.960 they're now fluent in, later in life. They all ended 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.200 they all had bilingual parents basically, so they were raised 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.440 with that knack, and I think it's something that a 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.320 lot of kids learn early on. So yeah, if she 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.760 started learning other languages at four, she was gonna be 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:09.680 good at him. Yeah, Elizabeth was pretty smart. Yeah, yes, yeah, 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:13.760 really smart. Cat was important, Yeah, was very important. Well, 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.480 the person who raises Yeah, she was essentially her mother 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.720 absolutely because as you know, Henry, well, her stepmothers came 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.800 and went. It was friendly rapidly, quite a few, it 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.760 turns out. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean but frankly, even 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.480 if you know stepmothers managed to stay for even ten 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.199 fifteen years, it doesn't really matter because the queen at 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.120 that time isn't nobility, isn't really that involved in raising 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.880 their kid. That's just how it was then, not really 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.160 that much. Yeah, so anyway, but the reason I brought 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.360 up Cat is just that she plays a role in 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:50.240 some of these stories. She does. Yeah, back to Henry 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.840 the Eighth for a little bit. His next wife, Jane Seemer, 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:57.360 finally produced a male heir, Edward, who became King Edward 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.120 the six After Henry died he was nine. He immediately 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:06.520 decreed that all candy in England belonged to him. Yeah. Yeah, 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.520 even now maybe I might be like, you know what, 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.920 English candies pretty good? Yeah, yeah, they do it pretty well. 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.960 Unfortunately for Edward, he only ruled until he was sixteen, 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:23.120 when he died diabetes. Did you know, I don't remember 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:27.160 he did not decree that all candy was no. Actually 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:31.600 he didn't know he was. He was always very sickly, 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.080 and he was very He had something with his lungs. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.319 He was like pneumonia. He seemed to take on things 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.640 like that or get that, all the time he had 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.760 breathing issues. He had a lot of fluid in his 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.839 lungs because I remember he got sick and it was 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.400 winter time, and then he started getting better, and then 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.199 he started getting ill again in the summer when it 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.520 should have been warm and his lungs should have dried out. 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.800 And I don't you know, it may be determined at 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.640 this point exactly what what it was that sunder Trump, 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.160 but I don't remember what it was, but I know 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.960 it was basically pneumonia. Probably either that or his half 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.719 sister Mary poisoned him well, because well, I guess who 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.520 got to I guess who got the throne? Next Mary, 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:16.160 Mary the First. Yeah, not not Mary Queen, well not directly, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:20.640 not immediately. Yeah, there was a little interim period of 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:22.680 nine days. Yeah, yeah, there was a little intra period. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.480 There was some contention. Uh well, first of all, there's 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:27.360 a little contention about Mary the First, whether she was 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:31.520 legitimate or not because the marriage had been annulled to 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.800 her mother and all that stuff. But it was eventually 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:35.679 it was all sorted out and Mary got the got 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:39.000 the throne in fifteen fifty three and she ruled for 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.520 five years until fifteen fifty eight what she died. And 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.960 during this time there were some plots against Mary that 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.679 Mary and I have involved Elizabeth. I know that these 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.040 plots that wanted to topple her and put Elizabeth on 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.200 the throne. But whether Elizabeth Elizabeth actually participated in these 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.360 it's kind of an open question. And thought that Mary 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.079 wasn't popular, Now, Mary wasn't that nobody seemed to have 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:02.200 really liked her. Yeah, And Elizabeth was younger and prettier, 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.320 and people just seemed to like her better. You know, 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.720 it's I mean, you know, frankly, it did seem that 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.320 people didn't like Mary's mother very much. The people seemed 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.360 to kind of like in at least in my reading. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.719 You know, I'm not I'm not British, I don't know, 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.520 but definitely not fully versed in this this time frame. Yeah, 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.080 but it seems to me that people like Anne Boleyn 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.480 was like the people's wife, people's choice, you know, people 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.800 really liked her for whatever reason or not. Yeah, kind of, 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.720 and so they liked Elizabeth more than they really liked 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.000 any of the other kids. That's what it seemed like 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.400 to me, at least that's fair. Back to the back 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.920 to the plots against Mary, Elizabeth spent some time in 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.280 the Tower of London, I think around a year, and 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.800 there was actually a question at the time of whether 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:46.120 she might get executed or not for her maybe participation 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.040 in these plots. But against I said, there really wasn't 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.520 much evidence that he was actually involved in any of them. 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.680 And I'm thinking I think Mary probably was reluctant to 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.480 execute Elizabeth because it had actually been kind of close 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.960 in childhood. You know, they were only half sisters. They 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:01.840 there was kind of a schism between and when she 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.439 went to the throne, but things they sort of got 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.679 like colder towards one another. Yeah, Well, I mean they 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.800 were sisters, and yeah, you know, half sisters or sisters. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.000 They were raised together. How old were they at that 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.720 point too? I mean Mary was quite a bit older 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.000 than she was, Like it was seven years old, at 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.360 least seven years old, okay, maybe maybe ten years. But 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:22.880 how old was Elizabeth? She wasn't not much older? Was 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:27.040 she very younger? You mean, I'm sorry then, um than Edward? Yeah, 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.520 she was. I think about the time that Mary took 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.600 the son, I think Elizabeth was nineteen or twenty yeah, okay, 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.040 and so yeah, not that much older, maybe five four 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.719 or five years at the most. Yeah, okay, okay, one 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.720 last little bit of history. Um, the one Elizabeth ascended 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.880 to the throne, many English Catholics didn't accept her as legitimate, 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:51.360 right because Henry is married to Anne, was illegitimate in 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:55.360 their eyes, and so she had been a bastard she was, Yeah, 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.760 she was a bastard and therefore was not a legitimate 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.040 heir to the throne. And this time it's believed and 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.320 Henry the eighth that actually had numerous flame was an 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.400 affairs and that he actually had he actually had male children. 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.360 He did, but they couldn't take the throne right because 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.880 they were all legitimate. Yeah, he seemed to really hold 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.080 to the standard of I can only bring into the 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.400 fold and give power to the ones who were officially 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.720 recognized by marriage. Like it was. He knew everybody knew 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:23.760 that he had these kids. It wasn't a secret, but 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.920 he was the Robert Barathian of But he did not 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.360 try to also force them in and say I have 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.319 a boy, this is my boy, this is going to 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.720 be the king. Except the boy he's a king. Like 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.880 he didn't do that at all. The tenants were in place, 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.640 even Henry. Henry pushed the rules and he redefined them 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:41.960 in a lot of ways, but he knew that was 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.640 only so far he could go yeah, yeah, and they 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.040 think it's hard to say. You know, oh, I um 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.680 slept with this woman who sleeps with a lot of 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.840 people one time. Now she suddenly has a son and 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.079 he's totally going to be the next king of England. 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.240 You're welcome, everyone. I have no way to know if 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.600 he's actually my sun or not. That's another good point. 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.640 You want to make absolutely sure he actually is your son. Yeah, 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:09.199 which although with easy at that time. Yeah, yeah, back 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:15.400 to Elizabeth, you guys totally are but uh you mentioned Mary, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.840 Queen of Scott's. Mary Queen of Scott's felt that she 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:19.720 did have a better claim to the throne in Elizabeth 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.240 because it was legitimate though distant, yeah, more distant relation 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.480 to Henry the eighth, but you know, all legitimate and everything. 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.840 But she never got any traction on that claim, and 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.520 eventually she was overthrown in Scotland and wind up taking 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:37.000 refuge in England through yourself on Elizabeth Elizabeth's mercy, and 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.960 but I couldn't refrain from mucking around in a few 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:44.680 little plots against Elizabeth, and so in February seven, Elizabeth 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.040 had her beheaded. Yeah, yeah, although she said at the 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:55.280 time that she didn't really mean for her to be beheaded. Yeah. OK, 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.560 explain how did this go to? She had signed Mary's 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.600 death warrant, but she told her se Terry not to 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.400 send it off. But apparently certain other important persons uh 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:07.560 either misunderstood the meeting at least one were in it 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.520 or or I think actually what happened is that it 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.560 was like the Privy Council was called, you know, without 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.520 Elizabeth knowing about it, and they decided to well, we've 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.280 got the death warrant, let's carry it out, and they did. Yeah, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.320 Elizabeth was upset about that, or at least she pretended 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.320 to be. There's some thought some people think that perhaps 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.640 she wasn't upset about it at all, that she actually 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.880 was the reason that had happened, and that she just 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.640 wanted a little plausible deniability. Yeah. Well, I mean Mary 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.320 would have been a serious threat to have fun, and 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.720 Mary was quite popular with a lot of some people. 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.360 She was. But at the same time, I think Elizabeth 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.400 did not want even though she wanted Mary out of 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.800 the way permanently, she didn't like the idea of killing royalties. 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.960 She wasn't. I think she just wasn't. Really, she wasn't 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.720 a killer at her I mean, though, well, she had 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.400 a number of people put to death, she did, but 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.760 she was not afraid. I don't have the sense that 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.800 she necessarily was in cold blood, you know, thinking, Wow, 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:05.960 this person might vaguely want to kill me, so I'm 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.440 going to have it thout. You know. That doesn't seem 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.400 like that, not at all. Briefly, this is like one 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:18.680 of my favorite little period bubbles periods of time, this 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.840 whole you know, nobility in this era, the Elizabeth not 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.520 the Elizabethan area as a whole. I mean, yes, that 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.080 is very interesting to me from a costume designer perspective 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.160 because it's interesting clothes, but just like the whole little 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.080 bubble of nobility in this time is like very fascinating 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.160 to me. So I'm sorry because I know I'm the 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:42.560 person who keeps taking a soft track. So we're not 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.240 even close to getting into the mystery. But maybe Joe 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.520 will be able to do that now that I've apologized 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.200 for being the person. I'm sorry. Guys, Scheming and all 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:53.840 that stuff is kind of it is kind of fascinating. 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.080 It's just so interesting. I don't know. I have a 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.960 hard time keeping everyone because there's always a bazillion player 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:01.920 is in these stories and it's always confusing to me, 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.760 and they always have the same names. Thank you, right. 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:06.919 But the other thing that I always cracks me up 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:12.200 about this period is everybody romanticizes it and goes on 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.000 and on and how wonderful it must have been, and 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.320 I'm always like, are you kidding me? They painted their 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.760 faces with lead paint. I don't want to look in 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:21.600 the streets. I don't want to live Yeah, I don't 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.800 want to live there. We live in a gilded age now, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.040 And I'm sorry. When you're in a castle where there's 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.439 you know, all kinds of vermin running around and the 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:31.439 only reason you don't see it is because the maids 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.800 are sweeping up their droppings every morning, which, by the way, 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.760 spread a bunch of diseases. It's not a time to 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.760 just be hanging out life then, even yeah, I mean 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.720 just even for nobility. You know, really poor people in 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.360 America today there are just so much better off materially 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.119 speaking than royalty was back in those days. Yeah, well, 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.920 I mean nobility almost you know, had it almost works 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.119 off again because you know, it was that whole we 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.960 got to paint our faces white and it was lead paint, 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.239 and we've got to do all these things to make 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.760 ourselves look rich, and they're just poisoning their bodies and horrible. 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.320 But it's still very fascinating to me. Again, I'm sorry, 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.760 we're super off track again. We are, let keep going, okay, 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.400 speaking about the scheming and everything like that. I mean, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.280 this is just the British royal family. But imagine what 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:17.480 it would be like to be a member of the 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:26.520 Saudi Royal family. Yeah, my god, insane? Right, what about 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.960 what about like, um, what about getting his calling even. 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.160 I mean, like there's like a chance that any human 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.520 being has his d n A right, anyone, let's talk 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:40.160 about that, anyone who's descended from mainland China. I think 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:46.480 it's it's insane, it's an insane amount. Yeah, he populated that. 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:53.960 Yeah he was even. Yeah, Well, now that we've just 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.320 talked about all kinds of naughty business, let's talk about 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.000 a virgin queen. Let's talk about her. The mystery is 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.080 did you have a did you have a kid? Elizabeth 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.600 was never married, and there's been a lot of speculation 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.800 about why. And I'm not so surprised personally because her 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.880 mother and her stepmother, Katherine Howard, were both be headed 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.480 by Henry the Eighth. Yeah, I did not have great 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:22.160 stereotype sterriage, did not idyllic idyllic marriage, just didn't have 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:26.600 really good prototypes for marriage. It was yeah, I mean 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:31.840 she just what she saw of marriage was just wasn't good. Yeah. 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:34.560 Her friend Robert Dudley, who will be talking about a 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:36.840 little bit, they knew each other since the age of eight, 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.879 and they were very close all throughout their lives. He 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.720 said that much later that after the execution of Katherine 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.320 Katherine Howard did is Elizabeth told him that she would 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.280 never marry, and you see what she might be a 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.120 little cynical about the whole marriage thing. But plus also 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.480 marriage meant having kids, which was dangerous back in those days. 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:57.920 As I said, Catherine of Aragon had six kids, three 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.919 of whom were still born and two who died right 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.280 after birth. And that's a lot and that was not 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.159 uncommon at all. That that's a lot of suffering to 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:08.280 go through for no results. It really is. And there's 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.440 I mean, that sounds crass. I understand what you're getting at. 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:13.119 You know, it doesn't sound I mean, it's it's a 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:15.800 reality of well, but it sounds harsh, but you're right, 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.400 it is a reality absolutely. I mean, the chances of 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.040 you dying in childbirth at that time is insane. Not 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.480 only you know, to give birth to a stillborn child 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.760 or a child who dies shortly after that, the fact 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.639 that you might die in childbirth was extremely high. I 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.960 also wonder if maybe there was a bit of um. 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.960 She was queen, she was ruling a country, but you know, 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:41.840 typically nobility was men. So I almost wonder if you know, 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:45.000 she thought if I marry someone, they will suddenly be 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.280 in charge. It's very true. So that could have been 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.480 part of it as well. And I know she didn't 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:52.240 want to share power there. I mean there's a lot 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.800 of reasons, right, yeah. And another reason was that she 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.399 had potential suitors amund the Royalty of Europe, one of 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.920 which as King Philip of Spain, which was Spain at 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.160 that time, was a lot more powerful than Britain, and 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:07.919 it was it was thought that Philip might stage at 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.359 hostile takeover, meaning like an invasion, and eventually eventually the 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:14.320 Spanish did remember the Spanish Armata, Yeah, well, yeah, they 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:18.680 were always they were all at war with each other constantly. Yeah, yeah. 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.439 And so but she kind of wanted to keep it 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.800 ambiguous with Philip, you know, like maybe she was because 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:28.920 he was interested in marrying she was keeping yeah, she was, yeah, 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:30.640