Speaker 1: My colleagues. We'll stop commenting on everything I get my
Speaker 1: assistantes at people and meeting? Why does my coworker keep
Speaker 1: taking credit for all my idea? Have any wisdom for me?
Speaker 1: Hi'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager podcast, where
Speaker 1: I answer questions from listeners about life at work. Everything
Speaker 1: from what to say if you're allergic to your coworkers
Speaker 1: perfume to what to do if you drink too much
Speaker 1: at the company party. Let's get started. I have to
Speaker 1: confess I really love awkwardness. That might sound like a
Speaker 1: weird thing to say, but I find awkward situations, including
Speaker 1: my own, really funny and entertaining and in some way
Speaker 1: kind of heartwarming. My favorite letters at the Aska Manager
Speaker 1: website are the ones that involve awkwardness, like I once
Speaker 1: published a letter from a woman who had accidentally hugged
Speaker 1: her CEO on the elevator one morning. He was leaning
Speaker 1: past her to hold the door open, and she thought
Speaker 1: he was going in for a hug, so she just
Speaker 1: went with it and embraced him. There was another letter
Speaker 1: from a person who found out that her mom had
Speaker 1: been emailing her boss to remind him that the daughter's
Speaker 1: birthday was coming up soon. I love those stories, and really,
Speaker 1: so much of Aska Manager is about here's this uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: potentially awkward situation. How do I handle it? And that
Speaker 1: is probably what has kept me happily doing the column
Speaker 1: for what eleven years at this point. Awkward situations are
Speaker 1: just really interesting and entertaining, and they're so universal. We
Speaker 1: all do things that make us cringe. Even the most
Speaker 1: confident among us have those moments that still make our
Speaker 1: faces turn red when we think about them weeks later.
Speaker 1: It happens to everyone, and it definitely happens at work. Today,
Speaker 1: we have a special guest here to talk about awkwardness.
Speaker 1: Melissa Doll is the author of the amazing book cringe Worthy,
Speaker 1: A Theory of Awkwardness, and I think she loves awkwardness
Speaker 1: as much as I do. Melissa, Welcome to the show. Hi, Hi,
Speaker 1: Thanks Alison, Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: have you here. You and I have talked about awkwardness before,
Speaker 1: and I just absolutely love cringe Worthy. Can we talk
Speaker 1: a bit about the book itself and then we'll just
Speaker 1: talk all things awkward? Yeah that sounds great. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: do you want to know? Well? I mean this is
Speaker 1: basically the greatest idea for a book ever for people
Speaker 1: who don't know it. Will you just describe it and
Speaker 1: what made you want to write it? Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: talk about awkward Actually, I feel like I don't know
Speaker 1: if you are this way with your book. But sometimes,
Speaker 1: like when people ask me to describe my book, it's
Speaker 1: like it's like all words lead me and I'm like, um, um,
Speaker 1: I don't remember, but but I will do my best. Um.
Speaker 1: So it is. I am a writer for New York
Speaker 1: magazine for The Cut, and I cover psychology primarily um
Speaker 1: for The Cut, And I've written about psychology for the
Speaker 1: last more than ten years. And one of the things
Speaker 1: I've always really liked about the job is, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll have some kind of question about human nature why
Speaker 1: do we do the things we do? And I get
Speaker 1: to you, you know, call up somebody who has been
Speaker 1: studying this for you know, for the last decade of
Speaker 1: their life or so, and who can explain it to
Speaker 1: me in a thoughtful way. But I kind of couldn't
Speaker 1: find anything that explained the feeling of of cringing, the
Speaker 1: feeling of awkwardness, you know, that that like just that
Speaker 1: tension that kind of like permeates the room when someone's
Speaker 1: like makes a joke and it doesn't go over well,
Speaker 1: or the thing where someone assumes someone else's expecting and
Speaker 1: they're not. You know, I was just curious what could
Speaker 1: explain the psychology behind that feeling. So this book is
Speaker 1: kind of my attempt to do that. And let's actually
Speaker 1: define awkwardness. How do you define it? I define it
Speaker 1: as it's so it's embarrassment. It's it's like the self
Speaker 1: conscious aspect of embarrassment. But I think what's different about
Speaker 1: it and what sets it apart? Because it is it
Speaker 1: is different, Like an awkward situation is not necessarily an
Speaker 1: embarrassing situation. So I think it's the conscious aspect of embarrassment,
Speaker 1: but with this stronger undercurrent of uncertainty, you know, like
Speaker 1: there's this element of what do I say next? What
Speaker 1: do I do next? Like the social norms are not
Speaker 1: here to guide me. So that's how I defined it
Speaker 1: for the book. You came up with an overall theory
Speaker 1: of awkwardness, which you have called cringe theory. Will you
Speaker 1: talk about what cringe theory is? Yeah? So I really
Speaker 1: have come to believe that cringing kind of causes us
Speaker 1: to to ask some pretty surprisingly profound questions about ourselves.
Speaker 1: If you if you kind of pay attention to it,
Speaker 1: I think it kind of makes us ask ourselves, who
Speaker 1: are you? How how do other people perceive you? And
Speaker 1: and who do you want to be? I think that
Speaker 1: cringing are it's the moments that make us cringe. Are
Speaker 1: these moments when we realize that the you that you
Speaker 1: kind of carry in your own head, this perception of yourself,
Speaker 1: is maybe not necessarily the way the world is seeing.
Speaker 1: It's kind of the moment we realize there's a disconnect
Speaker 1: between the person you're trying to present to the world
Speaker 1: and what you actually look like to the people around you.
Speaker 1: So the idea is awkwardness is what happens when this
Speaker 1: polished version of ourselves that we hope we're showing to
Speaker 1: the world slips and we're exposed, and we worry that
Speaker 1: people are seeing maybe who we really are, but the
Speaker 1: parts that we prefer to hide. Yeah, exactly, exactly, So
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, yeah, I'll just leave it there, exactly.
Speaker 1: You talk in the book about the spotlight effect that
Speaker 1: we assume that other people are paying more attention to
Speaker 1: us than they really are. This is I would imagine,
Speaker 1: probably at its peak when we're teenagers, but it stays
Speaker 1: with us, right it does. Yeah, I mean actually interestingly,
Speaker 1: they do say that self consciousness kind of fades later
Speaker 1: in adulthood, but certainly it's more of a human nature thing,
Speaker 1: it's not just a teenage thing. Uh. The spotlight effect
Speaker 1: is this idea that we think more people are paying
Speaker 1: attention to us than actually are. And there's this classic
Speaker 1: experiment where they tested this. They had somebody show up
Speaker 1: to an experiment late. They kind of told them the
Speaker 1: wrong time on purpose, and before they went in the room,
Speaker 1: they they gave him this really silly T shirt with
Speaker 1: Barry Manilow's face on it. And so the person is
Speaker 1: already late and they show up and they're wearing this
Speaker 1: really silly T shirt. It's kind of this embarrassing moment.
Speaker 1: And then afterwards the experimenters interviewed, uh, all these folks
Speaker 1: and they one of the things they asked them was
Speaker 1: how many people do you think remembered your shirt? And
Speaker 1: basically they thought, you know, maybe they thought ten people
Speaker 1: would remember, um, but really only five people remembered. So
Speaker 1: the kind of the moral of it is, it's interesting
Speaker 1: a lot of times when people write and talk about
Speaker 1: the spotlight effect, it's like the message that gets across
Speaker 1: is like, oh, no one's paying attention to you, you know,
Speaker 1: do whatever you want. It's it's not quite that. It's
Speaker 1: it's just not as many people as we think are
Speaker 1: are paying attention to our ridiculous mistakes. Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like I see that and a lot of letters at
Speaker 1: asking Manager that people are just really seized with worry
Speaker 1: that everyone saw this relatively small, silly thing that they did.
Speaker 1: That You're right, the message can't be or don't worry
Speaker 1: no one is ever paying attention because certainly quite often
Speaker 1: people are. We just really overestimate I think how often
Speaker 1: that's the case we do. It's just kind of you know,
Speaker 1: humans are kind of egocentric by nature, and all of
Speaker 1: us have have that tendency to one degree or another.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting, it's so interesting to me the kind
Speaker 1: of like link between awkwardness and kind of feeling uncomfortable
Speaker 1: in social situations and egocentrism, because it's like it's it's like,
Speaker 1: you're worried what people think about you, but you know,
Speaker 1: of course no one is thinking about you as much
Speaker 1: as as much as you are, so, and I think
Speaker 1: that's particularly can be true at work. Like you think,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I made such an idiot out of
Speaker 1: myself in that meeting. But no one's remembering what you said.
Speaker 1: They're remembering what what they said and whether it went
Speaker 1: well or not. So yes, unless it was really egregious,
Speaker 1: I think that's usually the case. Yeah, right, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can't just make a blakant statement and say no one
Speaker 1: ever remembers. But yeah, but people definitely think it's happening
Speaker 1: more than it is. Let's take a quick break here,
Speaker 1: and when we come back, we're going to hear about
Speaker 1: some real life awkward situations that Melissa put herself into
Speaker 1: when she was writing the book, including a visit she
Speaker 1: paid to a professional cuddler. One thing that is great
Speaker 1: about the book is that not only do you really
Speaker 1: delve into the science of awkwardness, but you also intentionally
Speaker 1: went out and put yourself in really awkward situations so
Speaker 1: that you could write about them. You did improv so
Speaker 1: that you could write about it for the book, which
Speaker 1: just makes you my hero. And you even set up
Speaker 1: a session with a professional cuddler so that you could
Speaker 1: write about it. I was laughing out loud when I
Speaker 1: read that part of the book will you tell Us
Speaker 1: about the Professional Cuddler? Because I just cringe thinking about it.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. So that that part of the book
Speaker 1: I had. I was almost done. I was almost done
Speaker 1: writing the book, and I had like, as you say,
Speaker 1: I had put myself into all these weird situations, and
Speaker 1: it kind of did that just as an aside. That
Speaker 1: was a later injection into the book. That's kind of
Speaker 1: something people ask about a lot, like, oh, like, you know,
Speaker 1: you did all these things, But the first draft of
Speaker 1: the book wasn't like that at all. The first draft
Speaker 1: was more, um sharing other people's stories. And I kind
Speaker 1: of like pulled it all together and looked at what
Speaker 1: I had and I was like, oh, this just feels
Speaker 1: kind of cruel to like be writing about like this
Speaker 1: uncomfortable feeling from a distance, you know, like just to
Speaker 1: tell other people's embarrassing stories. It's just it's sort of
Speaker 1: weirdly didn't feel fair. And also it didn't feel as
Speaker 1: emotional reading it. Um, I think like having some distance
Speaker 1: between that that discomfort. So I decided to dive right in.
Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, that the cuddler part came. I realized,
Speaker 1: like the reason I wrote the book was, you know,
Speaker 1: in part because this feeling has driven me nuts for
Speaker 1: most of my life. You know, I just feel like
Speaker 1: I'm I'm often I'm just really sensitive to moments of awkwardness.
Speaker 1: But by the end of writing this book, and you know,
Speaker 1: taking improv classes and doing all these crazy things, it's
Speaker 1: like I just didn't feel it anymore. Like I would
Speaker 1: I would just do things that people would be kind
Speaker 1: of amazed at. You know, you talk a lot about
Speaker 1: having uncomfortable conversations like work or or the kind of
Speaker 1: wisdom of being direct at work, and that was something
Speaker 1: I was always afraid of doing. But by the end
Speaker 1: of writing this book, I just kind of would dive
Speaker 1: right in. Sorry, I'm kind of I'm kind of digressing
Speaker 1: away from the cuddler. But basically that was sort of
Speaker 1: trying to get the feeling back in a way to
Speaker 1: be like, you know, like, uh, what will work, Like
Speaker 1: will anything make me feel awkward again? And that was
Speaker 1: the thing that broke me. It was so weird. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, it was just like, oh my god, it
Speaker 1: was so weird. And now I'm embarrassed that, like I
Speaker 1: wrote about it, in a book, it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what was It was the greatest moment in the book.
Speaker 1: I loved it. So for people listening who are like,
Speaker 1: what on earth as a professional cuddler? What on earth
Speaker 1: is a professional cuddler? Well, so basically I think that
Speaker 1: they say, you know, they are all about the power
Speaker 1: of touch as kind of a you know, soothing, you know,
Speaker 1: healing mechanism thing. So people go to them who are
Speaker 1: maybe like feeling lonely or I don't know who, who
Speaker 1: have maybe gone through a breakup or something like that.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like like the using the power
Speaker 1: of human touch is kind of what they what they say.
Speaker 1: But I came across some story where some journalists had
Speaker 1: had done it, and you know, she talked a lot
Speaker 1: about how awkward it was. I was like, oh, great,
Speaker 1: that's great for my purposes, um, but yeah, it was
Speaker 1: just it was just seriously weird. Like I just I
Speaker 1: just like froze up and just like couldn't I couldn't
Speaker 1: even go through with it. I had to like run
Speaker 1: out of there. I was too uncomfortable. So that's my
Speaker 1: favorite part is that you literally ran out and you
Speaker 1: did it before any cuddling had happened, right, No, we
Speaker 1: should she did not. We did not even touch each other.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I'm sorry, I have to go
Speaker 1: after it's too weird. So how is this supposed to work?
Speaker 1: You go and is it like an office or is
Speaker 1: it their home? Well, I think it's like their home
Speaker 1: or um or they can come to you, and I
Speaker 1: guess it's supposed to just be you kind of just
Speaker 1: like hugged for a while or something. I don't know
Speaker 1: because I only lasted like ten minutes before I had
Speaker 1: to get out of there because I thought it was
Speaker 1: too uncomfortable. But I don't want to like dismiss I
Speaker 1: think that it can be an important thing for, you know,
Speaker 1: for people who are lonely or something. So I don't
Speaker 1: want to dismiss the profession of professional cuddling. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't for me for you, that makes sense. I want
Speaker 1: to go back to something you or saying before that
Speaker 1: as you started to do these things, you became sort
Speaker 1: of immune to feeling awkwardness. Has that worn off or
Speaker 1: are you still there? It's funny, it's like it wears
Speaker 1: off when when I'm not thinking. It's like the power
Speaker 1: of the book. It like when I'm immersed in it,
Speaker 1: and when I'm doing lots of interviews for the book,
Speaker 1: and when I'm thinking a lot about kind of what
Speaker 1: I truly believe to be like the magic of awkwardness,
Speaker 1: which is kind of like uncomfortable self awareness, but that
Speaker 1: can be really useful when I'm immersed in that, when
Speaker 1: I'm thinking a lot about it, I'm not afraid of
Speaker 1: it anymore. Um. But there was a period where i
Speaker 1: wasn't doing a lot of press for the book, and
Speaker 1: it's like the feeling like came right back, and and
Speaker 1: so I think it's like it like works temporarily. So um.
Speaker 1: So anyone listening to this probably should read my book
Speaker 1: again and again, um to give the effect that makes
Speaker 1: sense definitely. Um. It almost seems like if you have
Speaker 1: steeped yourself in the messages of the book, which are
Speaker 1: this is so normal everyone experiences that, there's actually something
Speaker 1: really useful and healthy about it. Like when you're really
Speaker 1: steeped in that message, that is going to really raise
Speaker 1: your immunity to feeling awkward. But yeah, I could see
Speaker 1: how when that's not right in the forefront of your mind,
Speaker 1: it would come right back. Yeah, because it's a I mean,
Speaker 1: it's unpleasant, you know, it's tense, it's not fun um.
Speaker 1: But when yeah, when I'm remembering the message of the book,
Speaker 1: which is kind of just that these moments can the
Speaker 1: moments that make you cringe can kind of show you
Speaker 1: who you are and who you're who you expect yourself
Speaker 1: to be. And then I get some use out of
Speaker 1: the feeling. So we're gonna do one final break care
Speaker 1: and come right back, and we're back. You know. As
Speaker 1: funny as I find awkward situations, especially the ones that
Speaker 1: you put yourself into in the book, I think the
Speaker 1: book's overarching theme is a really beautiful one. And I
Speaker 1: want to read a short paragraph from the introduction that
Speaker 1: I think sums up the whole message of the book.
Speaker 1: You can tell me if you dispute that after after
Speaker 1: so here it is, Melissa wrote, the things that make
Speaker 1: you cringe are usually the things worth sharing because they
Speaker 1: can help others feel less alone. It's an understandable reaction
Speaker 1: to flee the situation that makes you cringe, But what
Speaker 1: if you could teach yourself to tolerate it. You could
Speaker 1: maybe learn to use the empathy as a portal to
Speaker 1: compassion for other people, and for yourself. Looked at in
Speaker 1: a certain light, cringing becomes a worthwhile feeling in emotion,
Speaker 1: worth exploring, not avoiding. Little humiliations can bring people together
Speaker 1: if we let them. The ridiculous in me honors the
Speaker 1: ridiculous in you. I love that. I love that way
Speaker 1: of looking at it, and I think it's part of
Speaker 1: why I love awkwardness, because it's not about making fun
Speaker 1: of anyone. It's about seeing our common humanity. Yeah. I agree.
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting to get this kind of common humanity
Speaker 1: vibe out of something as as silly as awkwardness, but
Speaker 1: I truly, truly did. Um. It's just like it's something
Speaker 1: we all experience. It's something that can bring us together
Speaker 1: if if you, if you look at it in the
Speaker 1: right light. So now you have a whole chapter in
Speaker 1: the book about awkwardness at work, which of course I loved.
Speaker 1: And you opened that chapter by talking about an Ask
Speaker 1: a Manager letter where someone had been working from home
Speaker 1: because of a snowstorm and they're on a conference call
Speaker 1: with their coworkers and suddenly their roommate, who was also
Speaker 1: at home due to the weather, started having sex with
Speaker 1: his girlfriend. In the next room loud sex and the
Speaker 1: people on the work conference call could hear it. And
Speaker 1: then after my letter writer got back to the office,
Speaker 1: some coworkers were even avoiding them because they figured that
Speaker 1: they had been openly watching porn on the call and
Speaker 1: felt really uncomfortable. It doesn't get much more awkward than that.
Speaker 1: So I love that you opened the work chapter with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, especially there's so much awkwardness in
Speaker 1: remote working situations. Um. Yeah, that that letter was so good.
Speaker 1: It was so bad because it was like, what were
Speaker 1: you supposed to tell that person? The letter writer like,
Speaker 1: it's like if you usually the answer is to be direct,
Speaker 1: but in this situation, like, would that have made it worse? Maybe? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you have to be direct and sort of introduced
Speaker 1: sex into the conversation, which were so trained to not
Speaker 1: most of us are trained to not do at work. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My advice to the person ultimately was, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: if if they were assuming that you were watching porn,
Speaker 1: it's better to to speak up and correct that than
Speaker 1: to let them go on thinking that. And actually the
Speaker 1: person set in an update later took the advice, did
Speaker 1: tell people what was going on, and everyone had a
Speaker 1: good laugh about it, admitted that yes, indeed, they had
Speaker 1: thought the person was watching porn openly on a work
Speaker 1: conference call. I felt much better once they knew it
Speaker 1: was really going on, and then it just turned into
Speaker 1: an office joke. Yeah, that was such a good one.
Speaker 1: But it's so funny how many of people who write
Speaker 1: into Ask a Manager are are dealing with some kind
Speaker 1: of like fear of awkwardness, some kind of like it's
Speaker 1: such a running theme, and I think that's why I
Speaker 1: love your side so much. That's why I love doing it.
Speaker 1: I think work is especially prone to awkwardness in some ways.
Speaker 1: And part of it goes back to what you're saying
Speaker 1: about awkwardness being what happens when the face that you
Speaker 1: want to show to the world slips. Because work is
Speaker 1: generally a place where we're really trying to have a
Speaker 1: professional persona on, so there's a lot of room for
Speaker 1: it to slip, Like there's further to fall then there
Speaker 1: might be in a non work situation, if that makes sense, right.
Speaker 1: And it's like there are rules, like there are rules
Speaker 1: that govern how you behave but there's not, but in
Speaker 1: some situations there aren't, and so there are these gray areas.
Speaker 1: But then it's a place that like, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I think the workplace is particularly prone to awkwardness. And
Speaker 1: I think you're right. There's all these unwritten rules about
Speaker 1: how to conduct yourself, and it's people don't always know
Speaker 1: exactly what they are or exactly what the nuance of
Speaker 1: those rules are, and it's so easy to run a
Speaker 1: foul of them if you even know what they are
Speaker 1: in the first place, which not everyone does. And you're
Speaker 1: thrown together with people you might not be the most
Speaker 1: comfortable social fit with, which is another element I think
Speaker 1: that ups the chances of awkward encounters. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Work is really awkward in so many different ways. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a weird place. And it does really
Speaker 1: matter in this situation what people think of you and
Speaker 1: what people's opinion of you is. So it's like you
Speaker 1: can tell yourself in other situations like, oh, like it
Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't matter what what are the people think
Speaker 1: of me? But it does matter at work and a
Speaker 1: lot of situations. So yeah, this mistakes are really high. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't just decide oh well, maybe my co workers
Speaker 1: did think I was openly listening to watching or watching
Speaker 1: porn on the conference call, so be it. I mean
Speaker 1: that you have to address it. But then how no
Speaker 1: one teaches you how to address something like that. What
Speaker 1: do you think, like, because it's one thing to just say,
Speaker 1: you know, just just have the awkward conversation. But do
Speaker 1: you do you think that like there are ways people
Speaker 1: can learn how to get better at it, or can
Speaker 1: can learn how to address uncomfortable things, or do you
Speaker 1: think it's just a matter of just doing it. This
Speaker 1: is just the perfect setup for me to pitch my book,
Speaker 1: which is all about how to have uncomfortable conversations at work.
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of it is finding a
Speaker 1: way to be really matter of fact, like one of
Speaker 1: the things that feels so uncomfortable. But the prospect of
Speaker 1: these conversations is they feel so emotionally fraught. And the
Speaker 1: more you can talk about it, whatever it is, in
Speaker 1: a very matter of fact way, using the same tone
Speaker 1: that you would use to say, hey, I can't get
Speaker 1: this printer cartridge to work, the closer you can get
Speaker 1: to that, probably the less awkward it's going to be.
Speaker 1: Not always, I mean, some things are just going to
Speaker 1: be awkward and there's no way around that. And all
Speaker 1: you can do is just plunge in and get through it.
Speaker 1: But a lot you can minimize a lot of awkwardness,
Speaker 1: I think by being a matter of fact, and people
Speaker 1: will take their cues from you. If you approach a
Speaker 1: conversation and you seem really tense and really worried, you know,
Speaker 1: you've been up for two nights dreading this conversation, and
Speaker 1: it shows people are going to feel really awkward because
Speaker 1: you're signaling to them that this is worthy of a
Speaker 1: lot of stress intention But if you're pretty calm about it,
Speaker 1: it will usually go better. Not always, um, But I
Speaker 1: also think there's real value I think in accepting you
Speaker 1: know what, Sometimes it's just going to be awkward, and
Speaker 1: that's not a reason to not have the conversation. That's
Speaker 1: a reason to maybe feel weird about it and to
Speaker 1: feel you might feel a little anxious about it, but
Speaker 1: it's not a reason to not do it. And I
Speaker 1: think so often and people interpret that feeling as awkwardness
Speaker 1: as being a flag that they shouldn't even be in
Speaker 1: that conversation. And sometimes that's true, but not always. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just to me, it's it's a signal that this is
Speaker 1: something we probably need need to pay more attention to,
Speaker 1: not less attention. Too often, not always been, but often yes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean times when I think that wouldn't be true
Speaker 1: would be like if you were overstepping your boundaries and
Speaker 1: having an awkward conversation with someone about like their reproductive
Speaker 1: plans and another doctor. But but in a lot of cases,
Speaker 1: I think you're right. The fact that you are having
Speaker 1: these emotions about it means there's something there that you've
Speaker 1: got to dig into and sort out exactly exactly, And
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's kind of like a it's like
Speaker 1: a painful self consciousness or self awareness. I think the
Speaker 1: feeling of awkwardness is. But it's it's yeah to me,
Speaker 1: I really, I really think it's so important to you
Speaker 1: have to dig into it and listen to it and
Speaker 1: what is it trying to tell? You? Yeah. I always
Speaker 1: feel like one of the best things that people can
Speaker 1: do for their quality of life at work but also
Speaker 1: just in life in general, is to just make a
Speaker 1: conscious decision to embrace the awkward. Because we all have
Speaker 1: horribly awkward moments that we then cringe over later on,
Speaker 1: and I don't think that's going to stop. But there
Speaker 1: is real joy and real liberation and just embracing how
Speaker 1: awkward we all are and and finding it funny. And
Speaker 1: I it can be hard to do that, but I
Speaker 1: think when you find your way there, it's such a relief. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's another thing I read about in the book.
Speaker 1: I really believe that too, Like if you can kind
Speaker 1: of I mean, I feel like I'm a lesson I'm
Speaker 1: having to learn over and over again in life, is
Speaker 1: to just lighten up and nothing take things so seriously,
Speaker 1: including myself. But um, but that really is part of
Speaker 1: the key to dealing with self consciousness and awkward moments
Speaker 1: is just to somehow lighten up and try to try
Speaker 1: to just like take some joy in just the absurdity
Speaker 1: of being human. Yeah, that was something I kind of
Speaker 1: ended up learning through writing the book for sure. I
Speaker 1: love that. Well, that is the show. Thank you for
Speaker 1: coming on and talking with us. Yeah, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for having me. Melissa's book is called Cringe Worthy,
Speaker 1: A Theory of Awkwardness, and you can order it on
Speaker 1: Amazon or wherever books are sold, and you can read
Speaker 1: more of her work at New York Magazine, where she
Speaker 1: writes the Science of Us column. For The Cut, it
Speaker 1: was such a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to the
Speaker 1: Ask a Manager Podcast. If you'd like to come on
Speaker 1: the show to talk through your own question, email it
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Speaker 1: How to Navigate clueless colleagues, lunch stealing bosses, and the
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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Google Play. I'm Alison Green
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Speaker 1: your questions. M