1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 2: Relations between the US and South Africa remain at the 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 2: lowest point in years after a dramatic Oval Office meeting 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: between President Trump and the South African President, Cyril Ramoposa. 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 3: I want you to look good. I don't want you 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 3: to look bad. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 4: But we have hundreds of people, thousands of people trying 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 4: to come into our country because they feel they're. 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 5: Going to be killed. 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: With President Trump continuing to push a white genocide conspiracy theory, 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: President Ramoposa has sought to try to reset the relationship 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: with the United States. 13 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: The United States continuing to play such a big role 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: in the life of our economy, it was necessary and 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: important for us to go and engage with them because 16 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: many of our people's jobs are dependent on our economic 17 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: dealings with the United States. 18 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: On today's podcast, we're discussing the fallout from that Oval 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: Office meeting, how the South African government is trying to 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: handle the Trump administration, and what the future might be 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: for US South African relations. I'm Jennifer Zaba Sadjob, and 22 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story 23 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: each week from the continent driving the future of global growth. 24 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: With the context only Bloomberg can provide to properly dissect 25 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: this dramatic week for Africa. I'm joined by Bloomberg government 26 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: reporter Sembile Stele, who traveled with Ramaposa and was in 27 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: the Oval office during that meeting. Thank you so much, 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: Simbulate for joining us. So let's just get right to it. 29 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: You were in the room when all of this unfolded. 30 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: You traveled with the delegation. Can you talk us through 31 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: what exactly happened? 32 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 5: So I think we got a test of what some 33 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 5: of the White House based reporters have been going through 34 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 5: over the past couple of months, which is just really 35 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 5: somewhat of a roller coaster. 36 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: We were first outside of. 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 5: The gates of the White House waiting for what seemed 38 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 5: like I was doing security checks, and then finally when 39 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 5: we were laid into the lawns, we waited for an 40 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 5: extended period of time for President sil Rama Porsa of 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 5: South Africa to arrive. When he did, suddenly everything was 42 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 5: all happening at the same time. The program, and this 43 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 5: was one of the things that kind of shocked the 44 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 5: South African delegation changed completely on the spot. If I 45 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 5: remember correctly, they were supposed to start with kind of 46 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 5: an informal luncheon. They thought that that would be the 47 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 5: ideal time to kind of thow tensions get a sense 48 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 5: for how things go before we had that very public 49 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 5: facing engagement in the Oval office. But the minute that 50 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 5: the president arrived, there was a few minutes in between. 51 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 5: We were ushered into the press room and then all 52 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 5: of a sudden, it was like, go, go, go, everyone, 53 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 5: We're going somewhere. And at that point, I think most 54 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 5: of us weren't even clear that we were now moving 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 5: into the office. 56 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 3: There was just this rush, and suddenly we were inside. 57 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 5: There, Mike's all over the place, cameras, President Silver my posta, 58 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 5: looking a little bit flustered but kind of trying to 59 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,839 Speaker 5: keep his calm. I think maybe I've got a sense 60 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 5: that he was trying to not let his face portray him, 61 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 5: that he was a little bit shocked and maybe slightly 62 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 5: annoyed that there was this slot min change in the program. 63 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 5: And I think that that last minute change also gave 64 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 5: a sense that things were not going to go as 65 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 5: well as what they had hoped in the way that 66 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 5: they had planned out as a South African delegation, and 67 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 5: of course that's when we saw, you know, initially very 68 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 5: cordial kind of an environment. They were speaking about golf, 69 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 5: which has always been kind of President Silver my Pasta's approach. 70 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 5: He'd always had this manner of, you know what, he's 71 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 5: just a guy. He's just a businessman, like myself and 72 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 5: my previous post. 73 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 3: We're now both heads of states. 74 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 5: We can kind of make this work if we solve 75 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 5: it on the greens basically, and so I think coming 76 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 5: into that that was his approach. He tried not to 77 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 5: be very antagonistic about things. And it seems to be 78 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 5: going well. And certainly from the first I think more 79 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 5: honest account that we heard from him yesterday, he said, 80 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 5: I thought things are going good. And then all of 81 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 5: a sudden, you hear President Trump saying, I think her 82 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 5: name was Natalie, show us that video. 83 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 4: Is Natalie here, somebody here to turn that? Let me 84 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 4: see the articles place of what you would and turn 85 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 4: excuse me, turn the lights. 86 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 5: Down, and then boom there It was this kind of 87 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 5: cinematic demonstration. I suppose Donald Trump was then using these videos, 88 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 5: these images to try and support the case that has 89 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 5: been falsely made that there is this white genocide that 90 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 5: is happening where white farmers are being targeted because based 91 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 5: on their race. 92 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: In South Africa, you're. 93 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 4: Taking people's land. 94 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 3: We have. 95 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 4: And those people in medicses are being executed. 96 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 3: They're being executed, and. 97 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 4: They happened to be white, and most of them happened 98 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 4: to be farmers. And that's a tough situation. I don't 99 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 4: know how you explained that. How do you explain that 100 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 4: they're taking people's land away, and in many cases those 101 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 4: people are being executed, and in many cases it's not 102 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 4: the government that's soon, it's people that kill them and 103 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 4: then take their land and nothing happens to. 104 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 5: Them as opposed to what the situation actually is. And 105 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 5: that is just a crime situation that really has gotten 106 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 5: out of. 107 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 3: Control stim be late. 108 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 2: We've talked before on the podcast about some of these 109 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 2: conspiracy theories about a genocide of white farmers. Can you 110 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: talk about how the South African officials are now countering 111 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 2: those claims. What is it they're saying, especially when you 112 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: think about what it is that Trump was showing them, 113 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: How are they pushing back on this? 114 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: So? 115 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 5: I think it's difficult because there's two approaches. The one 116 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 5: is that it doesn't really matter how much evidence you 117 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,559 Speaker 5: put before the Trump administrations to say this is not true. 118 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 5: These are effects and effects at our disposals. Africa has 119 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 5: really reliable crime statistics. They come out on a quarterly basis, 120 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 5: and as it pertains to far murders of white farmers 121 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 5: in particular, because there are many black farmers as well. 122 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 3: Over the last period of. 123 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 5: The last four years, the crime stats tell us that 124 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 5: fifty three white farmers have been killed. And I think 125 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 5: it's one of the things that came up in the 126 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 5: Oval Office that I think was I think an embarrassing 127 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 5: kind of concession to have to make from the part 128 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 5: of the South African government to say that what we're actually. 129 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 3: Dealing with is a really. 130 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 5: Hectic crime situation that has kind of gotten out of hand, 131 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 5: and it's not targeted at any one person in. 132 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 3: Particular or one race group. 133 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 5: Brother, It's just an issue that we are struggling to 134 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 5: deal with as a government. But I think to the 135 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 5: extent that some felt that let us try and make 136 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,239 Speaker 5: a case, there is still room to try and change 137 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 5: President Trump's mind. 138 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: These are the stats, these are the figures. 139 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 5: They're credible, they're reliable, and they don't support what we're seeing, 140 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 5: and certainly in terms of what we're shown in the 141 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 5: Oval office those videos, a lot of that has now 142 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 5: been exposed, right to say that these are scenes from 143 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 5: the Congo and elsewhere, they didn't actually happen in South Africa. 144 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 5: So there is this back and forth around the statistics, 145 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 5: but there's also a feeling that it doesn't matter how many, 146 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 5: you know, credible figures you put out there, people seem 147 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 5: to have made their minds about the so called white 148 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 5: genocide in South Africa exactly. 149 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: And especially when you think about, you know, President Ramaposa 150 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: trying to at least bring the meeting back to the 151 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: G twenty and some of the goals for him for 152 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: later this year. I wonder Stanbile, given again that you 153 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: were in the room, you traveled with the delegation, did 154 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: they ultimately walk away with what they had hoped to achieve? 155 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: Of course there are some curveballs thrown in there, But 156 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: what would you say? 157 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 5: I think it's kind of mixed reactions depending on who 158 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 5: you speak with. I think it's overall optimistic. But to 159 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 5: the point that you're making, we're president drama Pasa. I 160 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 5: was trying to bring the other issues along because it's 161 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 5: kind of there's a sense that this issue around the 162 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 5: white pharmas has become a little bit of a side 163 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 5: show when there are bigger issues that play. Of course, 164 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 5: South Africa and the US have a longstanding diplomatic and 165 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 5: trade relations. At the US of South Africa's second largest 166 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 5: trading partner after China, and so those are the issues 167 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 5: of substance that i'm a post administration really wants to 168 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 5: put on the table. There's the matter of the G 169 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 5: twenty presidency, which will ultimately be handed over to the 170 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 5: US come the end of the year, and that's a 171 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 5: big point, right. There's also the matter of the preferential 172 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 5: free trade Agreement, the GROWER, which is up for renewal 173 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 5: later this year. There seems to be a sense that 174 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 5: that is dead and buried even before the Trump administration, 175 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 5: to be honest, there's been a sense that South Africa 176 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 5: is too developed for a GOA as a framework, and 177 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 5: so the discussion really has been to how do we 178 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 5: then take this forward, How do we formalize other trade 179 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 5: arrangements that we can have so that you kind of 180 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 5: keep the benefits that you've had going or reconceptualize them 181 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 5: so that we can keep these trade relations going, and 182 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 5: we're possible also ramp up things like alan g gas 183 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 5: imports from the US and those kinds of things. So 184 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 5: I think in behind the closed doors, obviously we don't 185 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 5: have the perspective of the Trumpe administration if they were 186 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 5: open to any of the proposals that were put down, 187 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 5: but certainly there was a discussion around trade, how to 188 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 5: formalize it, how to normalize relationships so that the actual 189 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 5: work does continue, particularly on the trade side. 190 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: And Stambulay stick with us. When we come back, we'll 191 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 2: dig into more of the fallout from this meeting and 192 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,479 Speaker 2: really what happens now for South Africa and US relations. 193 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 3: We'll be right back. Welcome back. 194 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 2: Today we are looking at the fractious relationship between South 195 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: Africa and the US. As President Rama Posa returned from 196 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: a difficult trip to Washington. Stembu Lay Stele is still 197 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 2: with me. Stembu Lay, I want to ask you about 198 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: the reaction to that press conference. It has been the 199 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: talk of town, if you could say, across South Africa, 200 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: but maybe from your vantage point, how would you assess 201 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: the reaction. 202 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 5: There's been a mixed response, right, it depends on which 203 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 5: side of the fence that you're on. 204 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 3: But I wouldn't say that on the whole. 205 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 5: It seems to have not just domestically, but I think 206 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 5: abroad as well, because let's be honest, dealing with the 207 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 5: Trump administration is not just a South African problem. Everyone 208 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 5: is kind of grappling with what it means given the 209 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 5: status of the US, right the world's biggest economy, how 210 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 5: you deal with the president that acts in the manner 211 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 5: that he does, and how you move things going forward. 212 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 5: And so there's people that are saying, you know what, 213 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 5: this guy doesn't respect South Africans, he doesn't have any 214 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 5: good things to say about us. Why are we even 215 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 5: bothering to have this conversation with him at all? You 216 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 5: have economic players like Johanna Rupert, who was in the 217 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 5: room at the time in the Oval Office, trying to 218 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 5: make the point that, you know what, at a trade level, 219 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 5: this relationship is really important. 220 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 3: It's important that we get things right. 221 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 5: It's important that we clarify what is misinformation and what 222 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 5: is the accurate picture of what's happening at home and 223 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 5: where there are shortcomings where we are dealing with things 224 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 5: like crime. Will come out and say this is what 225 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 5: it is. And try to clarify what it isn't And 226 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 5: so I think, yeah, it just depends on which side 227 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 5: of the political divide that you're on. But I think 228 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 5: for the most part, people are concerned about Britain, but 229 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 5: the issues and that is the economy and to the 230 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 5: extent that having normalized relations with the US can assist 231 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 5: in stabilizing the economy and growing the economy. As South 232 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 5: Africa's second largest trading partner, there is that realization that 233 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 5: we need to try and make things work. 234 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 3: If it doesn't work out in the end, that's another story. 235 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 5: But from the side of the South African government that 236 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 5: are putting their best foot forward as it were, to 237 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 5: try and normalize relations. 238 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 2: Especially when you think about, as you were mentioning a GOA, 239 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 2: that preferential trade agreement which expires at the end of 240 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 2: this year, what does trade look like As you were 241 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: just alluding to, you mentioned there were some productive discussions 242 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: that we had in the US. When we think about 243 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 2: the bilateral relationship between these two countries, how significant is 244 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: this for South Africa really to write the ship? 245 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 5: I mean, I think it is just if you look 246 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 5: at market movements, when you just get even a sense 247 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 5: and again, this is not just a South African story, 248 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 5: it's everywhere else. You know, at President Trump treats something 249 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 5: about you know, OECD countries, you see something about the 250 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 5: oil market, and you just see everything comes to a 251 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 5: grinding holes and so everyone is just and that's trying 252 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 5: to navigate. But certainly from South African side, given i 253 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 5: mean one of the highest recorded unemployment rates in the world, 254 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 5: you have the economy slowing. You know, there's just a 255 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 5: lot of socioeconomic issues that the nation is trying to 256 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 5: grapple with. And you know, even being Africa's most industrialized economy, 257 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 5: there's just still so many issues that are at play. 258 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 5: And so I think that was the thinking or the 259 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 5: hope going into that meeting at the Oval Office, right 260 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 5: that there's this side show, let's deal with it, Let's 261 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 5: bite the bullets, and let's try and deal with these 262 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 5: very substantive matters. You know, there are six hundred Americans 263 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 5: newest companies that operate in South Africa. They create hundreds 264 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 5: and thousands of much needed jobs. So they must kind 265 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 5: of be a compromise and middle ground that is to 266 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 5: be found here. South Africa was one of those that 267 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 5: was slept with thirty one percent of. 268 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 3: The tariffs that have now been suspended. 269 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 5: The conversation was, how do we bring down that figure 270 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 5: so that it is a mutually beneficial relationship, because those 271 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 5: tariffs will hurt, for instance, your auto motive sector. Massive 272 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 5: companies like Ford that are operational in South Africa, they're 273 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 5: going to take a hit in as much as South 274 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 5: Africa will as well. 275 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 3: And so these are the proposals. 276 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 5: I think the thinking was to say, these are some 277 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 5: of the ideas that we have, and try and get 278 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 5: a feel from the Trumpet administration where they're willing to 279 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 5: bite on those issues, and then take the discussion forward 280 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 5: and see in terms of a more comprehensive proposal or 281 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 5: what they're calling a new trade deal, what it would 282 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 5: look like to put something together that would be mutually 283 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 5: beneficial for both administrations. 284 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: So then what happens now? Stimbile and I realized it's 285 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: not totally fair to add ask you because as you 286 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: were mentioning, the President of the United States could tweet 287 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 2: and everything changes. But when we think about G twenty 288 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: coming up later this year and the priorities for the 289 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: South African government, what are you focused on? 290 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 3: So I think there's a lot of moving parts, so fluent. 291 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 5: A few inflection points that are coming up, and I 292 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 5: would say that the first one would be the G 293 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 5: seven meeting that's going to take place in Canada next month. 294 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 5: And I think that's important because initially this bilateral between 295 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 5: the two presidents was actually supposed to take place on 296 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 5: the sidelines of the G seven. 297 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: And even when the meeting was kind. 298 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 5: Of fast trapped by Washington people that were trying to 299 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 5: convince President druma course and not to say, they were saying, 300 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 5: give us enough time to prepare, you can meet him 301 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 5: at the G seven, And I think from the President's side, 302 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 5: one of the considerations he was making was that let's 303 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 5: just deal with this once and for all, get it 304 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 5: out of the way, so that when we do meet again, 305 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 5: inevatively at the G seven, for instance, you know there 306 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 5: will be some sort of a normalization or. 307 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 3: We'll both know where we stand. We'll know if we 308 00:14:58,920 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 3: have a chance or not. 309 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 5: Similarly, as you mentioned, the G twenty leaders summed in 310 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 5: South Africa in November later this year, and the big question, 311 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 5: I suppose is whether or not President Trump will be 312 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 5: attending that, and it would be really awkward for him 313 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 5: not to given as you mentioned before, that the US 314 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 5: will take over presidency of that block of nations, which 315 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 5: is the world's most powerful economies, right the biggest economies 316 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 5: in the world, and it's something that started on American soil, 317 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 5: and so I think that's the big moment that everyone 318 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 5: is looking at for whether or not things will have 319 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 5: normalized sufficiently by then in such a way that President 320 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 5: Trump will be seen maybe on South Africa's greens playing 321 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 5: some golf leading up to that all important summits. 322 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: And Stambulay, thanks again so much for joining us this week, 323 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 2: and you can read all of stambu Lay's reporting across 324 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: Bloomberg platforms now and here are some of the other 325 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: stories from the region we've been following this week. Nigeria's 326 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: President Bullat Tenebu has requested approval from lawmakers to raise 327 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: almost twenty four billion dollars in external borrowing in the 328 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: next two years to fund projects that will spur economic growth. 329 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: And as the African Development Bank elects a new leader, 330 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 2: they will face a formidable task pivoting the continent's biggest 331 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 2: multilateral lender away from its reliance on the US and 332 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: Europe and securing billions of dollars of funding from other sources. 333 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: You can find these stories on Bloomberg platforms now, including 334 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 2: in the Next African newsletter. Will put a link to 335 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: that in the show notes. This program was produced by 336 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: Adrian Bradley and Tiwa Adubio. Don't forget to follow and 337 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 2: review the show wherever you usually get your podcasts, But 338 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: for now I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. 339 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 3: Thanks as always for listening.