Speaker 1: Cool Zone media.
Speaker 2: This is it could happen here. I am not going
Speaker 2: to El Salvador. It's not gonna happen, no way, No,
Speaker 2: thank you, mister President. I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by
Speaker 2: James Stout.
Speaker 3: Hi.
Speaker 4: Garrison.
Speaker 2: We're here to talk about possibly the most upsetting thing
Speaker 2: I've seen in American politics in like the past six
Speaker 2: months to maybe even I don't know viscerally had hit
Speaker 2: me for like the past few years. Like yet what
Speaker 2: happened on Monday in the Oval Office was is kind
Speaker 2: of the most black pilt I've ever been, which is
Speaker 2: not a great way to start an episode.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it like it made me feel like I found
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three very hard, like going out and seeing
Speaker 4: people freezing in the desert and then coming home and
Speaker 4: some by knee ice cream on the on the timeline,
Speaker 4: but like this was different. This was so like blatant.
Speaker 2: There's like a level of like intentional depravity that you're
Speaker 2: reminded of or more blatantly so and.
Speaker 4: Like Bukes trolling of yes everyone.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna be talking about an Oval Office meeting
Speaker 2: between President Trump and El Salvador President Bukelea. I guess
Speaker 2: I could learn his first name, Naive Buke. There you go.
Speaker 4: You know he's Palestinian Salvadorre.
Speaker 2: Are you fucking serious?
Speaker 4: No, that's an emam.
Speaker 2: I don't even have time for that.
Speaker 4: It's just just fucking I'm sorry. If anyone's driving it
Speaker 4: has had an accident upon hearing that.
Speaker 2: So, as you probably know, recently, the United States government
Speaker 2: has sent upwards of three hundred people immigrants to the
Speaker 2: L Salvador Terrorism Confinement Center, This prison black site that
Speaker 2: people never return from. I guess I could point to
Speaker 2: for a pop culture reference, which feels a little bit
Speaker 2: in bad taste, but you can point to like the
Speaker 2: prison in the TV show and Or as being a
Speaker 2: very comparable facility, frankly, except they turn off the lights
Speaker 2: in and Or they do not turn off the lights
Speaker 2: in Seacott lights around all the time. They put ten
Speaker 2: to twenty people per sell. It's pretty bad. Jameson has
Speaker 2: done episodes on Seacott in the past, will probably keep
Speaker 2: doing more.
Speaker 4: The lights thing, by the way, was a specific policy
Speaker 4: change by Bouquele. There was a particularly violent weekend in
Speaker 4: El Salvador, and as a result, he stopped letting people
Speaker 4: who were detained for gang crimes go outside and stopped
Speaker 4: building windows into the prison and just put the lights
Speaker 4: on because a way of punishing, I guess the gangs
Speaker 4: by punishing the people who are detained there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can't go outside. They stay in their cell
Speaker 2: for almost twenty four hours a day. They might occasionally
Speaker 2: get thirty minutes outside, but that's not even confirmed because
Speaker 2: no one's even allowed inside to see what's going on
Speaker 2: in there. And we've sent upwards of three hundred immigrants there,
Speaker 2: the majority, vast majority of which have no criminal record.
Speaker 2: Even if you do have a criminal record, being renditioned
Speaker 2: to a foreign a foreign prison camp is still bad.
Speaker 2: But this is something that Trump hopes to expand on greatly,
Speaker 2: and they are currently defending their ability to do so
Speaker 2: in the court since it has been learned that a
Speaker 2: few people sent there may have been partially sent by accident,
Speaker 2: but the Trump administration is refusing to return these people
Speaker 2: and is instead still trying to convince the public that
Speaker 2: these are dangerous terrorists that deserve to be disappeared. So
Speaker 2: let's kind of start with that main case. The case
Speaker 2: that's receiving the most public attention right now is of
Speaker 2: a Maryland man named Kilmayor Abrego Garcia, who's a subject
Speaker 2: of a district court case that has been sent up
Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court and then sent back to the
Speaker 2: district court on whether this man can be returned home
Speaker 2: to his US citizen wife and child. And then on
Speaker 2: Monday April fourteenth, the Oval Office, meeting President Boukela said
Speaker 2: that he will not return this Maryland immigrant with protected
Speaker 2: legal status back to the United States, who Ice admits
Speaker 2: was sent to Seacot based on a quote unquote administrative error, said, quote,
Speaker 2: how can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States?
Speaker 2: Of course I'm not going to do it. The question
Speaker 2: is preposterous unquote. The Al Salvador president also balked at
Speaker 2: the idea of releasing Garcia from Seacott since he can't
Speaker 2: have a quote unquote terrorist free in his country, lying
Speaker 2: about Garcia being a criminal. I am going to play
Speaker 2: a few clips in this episode because I think it
Speaker 2: is necessary to listen to these people actually say the
Speaker 2: words that they are saying, in the tone that they're
Speaker 2: saying them, and the exact phrasing on these I think
Speaker 2: is actually pretty important right now. So unfortunately, you are
Speaker 2: gonna have to hear the voices of a few people
Speaker 2: who you might not rather hear from, including the president
Speaker 2: of El Salvador. So I'll play this first.
Speaker 5: Clips can President big on this?
Speaker 2: Do you plan to return him?
Speaker 6: Well? Yeah, I'm suppose you're suggested that a smuggle terrorist
Speaker 6: in today United States?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 6: How can I smuggle How can I return him to
Speaker 6: the latter It's like I smuggle him into the United
Speaker 6: States or whether you do, of course.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna do it. It's like, let mean that
Speaker 3: the question is preposterous. How can I smuggle the terrorist
Speaker 3: in today United States?
Speaker 6: I don't have the power to return him to the
Speaker 6: United States inside. Yeah, but I'm not releasing I mean,
Speaker 6: we're not very fond of releasing terrorists into our country.
Speaker 6: We just turned the murder capital of the world to
Speaker 6: the safest country of the Western hemisphere, and he want
Speaker 6: us to go back into the releasing criminals so we
Speaker 6: can go back to being the murder capital of the world.
Speaker 3: And that's good. That's not going to be happened. But
Speaker 3: they'd love to have a criminal, you know, with schedule.
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean there's there's a fascination. Yeah, these
Speaker 3: are chick people.
Speaker 4: It's just insane, Like the whole pretend any serious engagement
Speaker 4: with reality there, it's just gone yeah.
Speaker 2: And they're both like miming that neither of them have
Speaker 2: the ability to make any kind of deal between each
Speaker 2: other to send people back, even though they have the
Speaker 2: ability to make a deal to send people there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, as they sit in the same room.
Speaker 2: The whole time Bekayley's talking, Trump has like this, like
Speaker 2: a growing smirk on his face. As Bekayley's talking about
Speaker 2: this preposterous notion of smuggling a US immigrant back into
Speaker 2: the United States despite the Supreme Court order to facilitate
Speaker 2: the return of this immigrant back into the country. The
Speaker 2: whole smuggling framing is obviously absurd, with him saying like
Speaker 2: I don't have the power to return him to the
Speaker 2: United States. All he needs to do is release him
Speaker 2: from Seacott and the US can fly him back right
Speaker 2: just as we flew him to El Salvador. Like the
Speaker 2: two heads of state are sitting right next to each other.
Speaker 2: They could agree to do this at any time, But
Speaker 2: now everyone's pretending that that suddenly they don't have the
Speaker 2: power to undo what they seemingly had the power to
Speaker 2: do in the first place.
Speaker 4: Like Bookeley has ruled and we're going to do a
Speaker 4: whole episode of and like his rise to power and
Speaker 4: then his use of power. But like he's ruled under
Speaker 4: a state of exception for years in Elsabador, which allows
Speaker 4: him to detain people without warrants, without trials, right, and
Speaker 4: like it's that state of exception that is now the
Speaker 4: norm there. And that's kind of what he seems to
Speaker 4: be referring to, right, Like like we just get to
Speaker 4: lock people up. Why would I not do that?
Speaker 2: In effect, they are arguing that every single human being
Speaker 2: that is sent to Seacot by the United States is
Speaker 2: unable to ever leave the prison alive. Yeah, Like that's
Speaker 2: basically they're saying, because they're saying both both parties, both
Speaker 2: Trump and Bukel, are unable to have someone who's been
Speaker 2: sent there returned. So they're just they're just saying like
Speaker 2: no one's able to do anything, Like they're just stuck
Speaker 2: there until they die, and like this is part of
Speaker 2: the design of Seacot. Uh, the person who runs like
Speaker 2: the Seacot like security has said that they do not
Speaker 2: intend in any person ever being released from cat. You
Speaker 2: are not designed to get out. You are stuck there forever.
Speaker 2: No one's ever left there. Yeah, it's just where you
Speaker 2: get disappeared, and that's that's all. That's all that it is.
Speaker 2: And I think part of why they're so unwilling to
Speaker 2: send Garcia back is because then you have someone like
Speaker 2: the first person who's ever like gotten out and can
Speaker 2: talk about what it's actually like in there, when you
Speaker 2: don't have like Christinome and like propaganda cameras pointed at
Speaker 2: at the prison bars.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Bukela is very redicent to really to anyone for
Speaker 4: that reason, and like there are plenty of valigations and
Speaker 4: like I think looks like Time magazine has publicist is
Speaker 4: not huguely controversial that he made deals with gangs in
Speaker 4: the past in elsabul or right to get them to
Speaker 4: reduce the murder rate, and like he certainly wouldn't like
Speaker 4: to hear that testify to certainly not in the United
Speaker 4: States court, right, So, like he doesn't want people to
Speaker 4: be released from there either, Like you said, they don't
Speaker 4: want anyone to be able to go to any international
Speaker 4: human rights courts and testify as to what happened to
Speaker 4: them there. So it's kind of in his interest to
Speaker 4: never have anyone be released. It's not just also, I
Speaker 4: guess like in his interest, he's also being paid right
Speaker 4: twenty thousand dollars per detainee per year by the United
Speaker 4: States right now, so he also has a financial interest
Speaker 4: in keeping people in there.
Speaker 2: Even this per year deal makes now kind of makes
Speaker 2: the zero sense because both of them are arguing that
Speaker 2: there's no way to send anyone back, right, So, like
Speaker 2: it's not that it's even like, oh, they're only going
Speaker 2: to be there for one year. It's like they're just
Speaker 2: they're just there, and like who knows if they're gonna
Speaker 2: like still be alive by the time that some of
Speaker 2: these people would be able to get out, whether that's
Speaker 2: through the miraculous Donald trumpetpeachment of twenty twenty six which
Speaker 2: will never happen, or like however, like these people are
Speaker 2: just they are to stuck there because he's not going
Speaker 2: to release them into his country. We are seemingly unable
Speaker 2: to take anyone back from there, I think.
Speaker 4: I mean unwilling right, Like the US is theoretically able.
Speaker 2: It's argued that we're unable. As people get into more Yeah,
Speaker 2: after this at break.
Speaker 4: Okay, we are back.
Speaker 2: One thing that we've seen across the Trump administration the
Speaker 2: past eighty days or so. Something that we saw very
Speaker 2: evident in this meeting is that whenever a single person
Speaker 2: is asked a question about the outrageous, possibly illegal, possibly not,
Speaker 2: but just immoral or evil things that are being done,
Speaker 2: the first instinct is always to pass the buck onto
Speaker 2: someone else. We saw this a lot with Signalgate, how
Speaker 2: it was always someone else's faults. No single person could
Speaker 2: get like hammered down of being like, okay, you are
Speaker 2: the person that's going to be like accountable for this.
Speaker 2: And throughout this Oval Office meeting, eventually they started taking
Speaker 2: questions from journalists and reporters and propagandists who are in
Speaker 2: the room. And you saw this trend of you know,
Speaker 2: if someone asks Trump about what's going on, he passes
Speaker 2: the buck to Stephen Miller, who passes the buck to
Speaker 2: who then passes the buck to Mark Rubio. And it's
Speaker 2: like this big circle of like everyone's just talking around
Speaker 2: each other because no one really has the authority to
Speaker 2: speak on what's going on or how to fix this
Speaker 2: problem because they don't see it as a problem. So
Speaker 2: instead they just talk in a circle. And I think
Speaker 2: Miller was one of the most effective at this and unfortunately,
Speaker 2: we're going to play the longest clip in this episode,
Speaker 2: just under two minutes from Stephen Miller, where he lays
Speaker 2: out the Trump admins thought process and strategy behind what
Speaker 2: they are doing. And I apologize for this, but it
Speaker 2: is useful to hear from Himmler two.
Speaker 4: So here here we go, with respect to you.
Speaker 5: He's a citizen of El Salvador, so it's very arrogant,
Speaker 5: even for American media to suggest that we would even
Speaker 5: tell El Salvador how to handle their own citizens as
Speaker 5: a starting point. As two immigration courts found that he
Speaker 5: was a member of Mster Tank. When President Trump declared
Speaker 5: MS thir Team to be a foreign terrorist organization, that
Speaker 5: meant that he was no longer eligible under federal law,
Speaker 5: which I'm sure you know you're very familiar with, the
Speaker 5: iona that he was no longer eligible for any form
Speaker 5: of immigration relief in the United States. So he had
Speaker 5: a deportation order that was valid, which meant that under
Speaker 5: our law he's not even allowed to be present in
Speaker 5: the United States and had to be returned because of
Speaker 5: the foreign terrorist designation. This issue was then by district
Speaker 5: court judge completely inverted and a district court judge tried
Speaker 5: to tell the administration that they had to kidnap a
Speaker 5: citizen of El.
Speaker 3: Salvador and fly back here.
Speaker 5: That issue was raised to the Supreme Court, and the
Speaker 5: Supreme Court said the District court order was unlawful and
Speaker 5: its main components were reversed nine zero, unanimously stating clearly
Speaker 5: that neither Secretary of State nor the President could be
Speaker 5: compelled by anybody to forcibly retrieve a citizen of El
Speaker 5: Salvador from Al Salvador, who again is a member of
Speaker 5: MS thirteen, which is I'm sure you understand, rapes, little girl, girls, murders,
Speaker 5: woman murder's children, is engaged in the most barbaric activities
Speaker 5: in the world. And I can promise you if he
Speaker 5: was your neighbor, you wouldn't move right away, So you
Speaker 5: don't think.
Speaker 3: And what was r and the Supreme coach safe was
Speaker 3: at nine to nothing. Yes, it was a nine zero
Speaker 3: in our favor, in our favor against.
Speaker 5: The Juici Court ruling saying that no court has the
Speaker 5: power to the telele foreign policy function of the United States.
Speaker 1: As PAM said, the rulers solely stated that if this individual.
Speaker 5: El Salvador sole distress was set back.
Speaker 3: To our country that we could deport him a set
Speaker 3: in the top.
Speaker 5: No version of this.
Speaker 3: Legally ends up with an ever living.
Speaker 5: Here because he is a citizen of Al Savador, that
Speaker 5: is the president of Al Sadidor.
Speaker 7: Your question about for the court can only.
Speaker 3: Be directed to Tennant.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot there. Yeah, I think I'm going
Speaker 2: to start with I can promise you if he was
Speaker 2: your neighbor, you would move right away. And I think
Speaker 2: that is really the heart of what the Strump administration
Speaker 2: is is doing, Like it's appealing to this most basic
Speaker 2: like suburban crime, panic, fear, racism of well, if he
Speaker 2: was your neighbor, you wouldn't want him living next to.
Speaker 4: You, Yeah, like a vagos neighborhood kind of.
Speaker 2: Well, just completely lying about like the context of this
Speaker 2: case with you Miller saying it's arrogant suggest that we,
Speaker 2: the most powerful country in the world, are used to
Speaker 2: be before the tariffs can tell El Salvador how to
Speaker 2: handle its citizens, falsely claiming that immigration courts deemed him
Speaker 2: a member of MS thirteen, which just is not true,
Speaker 2: talking about kidnapping him from Seacott to return him to
Speaker 2: the United States, as if Ice didn't just kidnap hundreds
Speaker 2: of people with no criminal records and send them to
Speaker 2: a foreign goo lug and then also lied about about
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court ruling, saying they found the district court
Speaker 2: order to return to Garcia unlawfel and grossly mischaracterizing the
Speaker 2: scope of what the Supreme Court ruling was and how
Speaker 2: it was sent back to the district court to work
Speaker 2: with the details on facilitate the return actually means. And again,
Speaker 2: I think like the one of the most telling parts
Speaker 2: is how he ends by saying, quote, no version of
Speaker 2: this ever ends up with him living here, And yeah,
Speaker 2: like they're gonna look for any any way to like
Speaker 2: make this test case to work, right and if and
Speaker 2: if they if they can do this to someone with
Speaker 2: protected legal status, who is not a who's not a terrorist,
Speaker 2: who is not an actual MS thirteen gang member, right,
Speaker 2: this is this is kind of ideal for them because
Speaker 2: that means they can paint anybody as as a foreign
Speaker 2: policy threat enough to be sent to a foreign goolag.
Speaker 2: Then at the very end of the clip, he passes
Speaker 2: the buck off to to Bouquetlight to have to have
Speaker 2: him answer this question again perfectly laying out their strategy.
Speaker 4: There's a lot to break down in what military It's
Speaker 4: also just kind of interesting cambillary is like amongst the press,
Speaker 4: He's not one of the people like sat on the
Speaker 4: couch is supposed to be giving the press conference. Right,
Speaker 4: he just kind of wades in too. I guess like
Speaker 4: like offer this opinion and kind kind of like be
Speaker 4: the kind of embassy of this of their response, I
Speaker 4: guess in a sense, I think crucially, like Abergo Garcia's
Speaker 4: protection was from being returned to El Salvador, right, because
Speaker 4: he had been harassed by gang members when leaving El
Speaker 4: Salvador and when living in El Salvador.
Speaker 2: He's lived in the States since twenty eleven, and he
Speaker 2: left El Salvador to flee harassment and abuse from gang members.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the gangs that he's been accused of being a
Speaker 4: part of. But like it then follows that, like it
Speaker 4: would be legal for them to deport him to a
Speaker 4: third country, right, and that is the path that they've
Speaker 4: followed with all the Venezuelan migrants. Right, They've accused him
Speaker 4: of being members of Trend de Ragua. I have not
Speaker 4: seen a compelling case made that any of them are yet.
Speaker 4: I'm sure people from Trend de Ragua have come to
Speaker 4: this country, but they have not provided any evidence that
Speaker 4: the people they have sent to say God, are those people.
Speaker 2: No, Like we've had like fourteen people are like accused
Speaker 2: of some kind of like violent crime like murder or rape,
Speaker 2: and in the other like two hundred and seventy five
Speaker 2: do not have a criminal record whatsoever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the bulk of this is relying on some
Speaker 4: kind of idea that they have entirely created from fiction,
Speaker 4: that they are tattooing practices when one entered the raga.
Speaker 4: And for them, right, even if they can't be returned
Speaker 4: to Venezuela, they feel that they have this endraum which
Speaker 4: is okay, we'll send them to a Salvador. But for
Speaker 4: the Salbadarians, that's a different question, right, And that is
Speaker 4: what they're trying to find here, And that is worrying
Speaker 4: because the case here that is getting the most publicity,
Speaker 4: that seems to be the one that the Supreme Court
Speaker 4: has taken up is about the Salbadaran man. And I
Speaker 4: hope that doesn't mean that like the ship has sailed
Speaker 4: for the Venezuelans, right that essentially, Yeah, No, like they
Speaker 4: don't have a case because that was the vast bulk
Speaker 4: of them. I think there was only like sixty Salbadrean
Speaker 4: citizens and the rest Venezuelans, no one.
Speaker 2: Hundreds of people have been like forgotten in this After
Speaker 2: Miller's rant there, Mark Rubio jumped in to state that, quote,
Speaker 2: no court in the United States has the right to
Speaker 2: conduct the foreign policy of the United stins States unquote.
Speaker 2: And Steven Miller hopped back in to talk about this
Speaker 2: Supreme Court case that they're falsely saying they won nine
Speaker 2: to zero, which is not how that case went, and
Speaker 2: they start talking more broadly about what can be allowed
Speaker 2: if it has to do with the foreign policy of
Speaker 2: the United States, and how the courts don't have the
Speaker 2: ability to intervene in that process.
Speaker 5: No, the foreign policy of the United States is conducted
Speaker 5: by the President of the United States, not by a court,
Speaker 5: and no court in the United States has.
Speaker 3: A right to conduct the foreign policy of the United States.
Speaker 3: It's that simple end of story. And that's what mister
Speaker 3: Preme Court held.
Speaker 5: By the way, has Barbara fort the Suterpeini Court said
Speaker 5: exactly what Marco said, that no court has the authority
Speaker 5: to compel the foreign policy function the United States. We
Speaker 5: want a case nine zero, and people like CNN are
Speaker 5: portraying it as a loss as usual because they want
Speaker 5: foreign terrorists in the country who kidnap women and children.
Speaker 2: Part of what I find so disturbing about this idea
Speaker 2: of you know, no habeas corpus, no due process if
Speaker 2: you aren't on foreign soil is that like this idea
Speaker 2: of the courts having no jurisdiction over foreign policy decisions
Speaker 2: means that as long as you whether you're a citizen,
Speaker 2: whether you're a permanent resident to document or undocumented immigrant,
Speaker 2: as long as you are forcedly removed from the United
Speaker 2: States soil, your rights and your due process has been forfeit,
Speaker 2: and the US has neither the obligation nor sometimes the
Speaker 2: ability to return you to US soil if that is
Speaker 2: their foreign policy interest. And this is such a troubling
Speaker 2: broad concept that the portions of the courts are kind
Speaker 2: of allowing them to claim right now, and the complete
Speaker 2: removal of due process is like slowly getting encroached upon
Speaker 2: at first with undocumented immigrants and green card holders, but
Speaker 2: as we will see in the next section, they are
Speaker 2: also absolutely going to be targeting US citizens.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think like we should just point out obviously
Speaker 4: the court is not conducting the foreign policy of the
Speaker 4: United States. It's ruling on the legality of the action
Speaker 4: taken by the press, which is exactly what it's supposed
Speaker 4: to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And as it relates to your rights for due process
Speaker 2: if you are in the United States.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Like every single US person, right, US person
Speaker 4: would be anybody who resides in the US, be they
Speaker 4: documented or done, documented, migrant, citizen, what have you like,
Speaker 4: has a stake in this.
Speaker 2: We're gonna go on break and then come back to
Speaker 2: discuss the expansion of the sea Cott detention program and
Speaker 2: the possible targeting of US citizens.
Speaker 4: Okay, we're back.
Speaker 2: So on April seventh, a few weeks ago, while on
Speaker 2: Air Force One, President Trump fild reporters that he would
Speaker 2: be quote unquote honored for the President of Al Salvador
Speaker 2: to take a US citizens quote unquote American grown and
Speaker 2: born criminals and put them in sea Cott, the Terrorism
Speaker 2: Confinement Center prison black Site, saying quote why should it
Speaker 2: stop just at people that cross the border illegally unquote.
Speaker 2: A few days later, the White House Presecretary reiterated that
Speaker 2: this is something that Trump is discussing both publicly and privately,
Speaker 2: and later during the April fourteenth Oval Office meeting, Trump
Speaker 2: said that if Salvador was to build more of these
Speaker 2: torture mega prisons, the United States would quote unquote help
Speaker 2: them out. If the Trump administration could disappear more American
Speaker 2: immigrants and US citizens to these prison black sites, well, I.
Speaker 3: Pay for those facieties to be opened a few once
Speaker 3: we're going to be built, I'd do something. We'd help
Speaker 3: them out.
Speaker 7: We help them think great facilities, very strong facilities, and.
Speaker 8: They don't play games. I'd like to go step further.
Speaker 8: I mean, I say I said it to Pam. I
Speaker 8: don't know what the laws are. We always have to
Speaker 8: obey the laws. But we also have homegrown criminals that
Speaker 8: push people into.
Speaker 7: Subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the
Speaker 7: head with a baseball bat when they're not looking.
Speaker 8: That are absolute monsters. I'd like to include them in
Speaker 8: the group of people to get them out of the country.
Speaker 8: But you'll have to be looking at the laws on
Speaker 8: that state.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So this is just the start of a long process
Speaker 2: that is going to be deeply troublesome and worrying. And
Speaker 2: again like this is something that they keep talking about.
Speaker 2: I think they're still looking for some kind of legal justification,
Speaker 2: or they're looking for something that maybe, if not allows
Speaker 2: for this, explicitly prohibits this in a way that they
Speaker 2: can't get around.
Speaker 4: Yeah, did you notice he called out Miller. He said,
Speaker 4: you have to look at the laws and the Steve
Speaker 4: obviously Miller is not the attorney general.
Speaker 2: He also did mention Attorney General Pambondi. Pambondi, Yeah, who's
Speaker 2: also looking into this option right now?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: But Miller is often credited with being the kind of
Speaker 4: mastermind between behind Title forty two, right, which was an
Speaker 4: extremely obscure piece of public health law that was them
Speaker 4: mobile by the first Trump administration to immediately return migrants
Speaker 4: to Mexico without giving them their right to it an
Speaker 4: asylum hearing, right, And like that's what I'm wondering if
Speaker 4: they're going for again, Like Steve Miller has been very
Speaker 4: good at this, at finding obscure justifications in the United
Speaker 4: States federal law for shit that they want to do.
Speaker 2: I think this is why they're definitely trying to stretch
Speaker 2: this foreign policy claim as far as they can that
Speaker 2: if it's if it's outside US soil, there's a limited
Speaker 2: way US courts can actually interfere or undo things that
Speaker 2: have already been done. And again, like the idea that
Speaker 2: we're going to like fund the construction of even more
Speaker 2: of these El Salvador mega prisons just to house American
Speaker 2: grown and born criminals as well as immigrants, like we're
Speaker 2: just funding like goolog camps on foreign soil to send
Speaker 2: the undesirables to. And no matter how much Trump talks
Speaker 2: about how we're oldly going to send quote unquote like
Speaker 2: American criminals there, as we've seen with seacots so far. Like, no,
Speaker 2: like the majority of people they are sending do not
Speaker 2: have criminal criminal histories. I don't think anyone can trust
Speaker 2: the Trump administration's definition of what isn't isn't criminal to
Speaker 2: this extent anymore. Later in the same meeting, Trump reiterated
Speaker 2: the same idea about sending you a citizens who his
Speaker 2: administration deems criminals to this foreign black site. Here's another clip.
Speaker 3: This is all question on a clarification.
Speaker 9: You mentioned that you're open to supporting individuals that aren't
Speaker 9: foreign aliens for our criminals.
Speaker 3: To Al Salvador. Does that include potentially US citizens?
Speaker 9: Fully naturalized immrated if they're criminals, and if they hit
Speaker 9: people with baseball bats over the head that happened to
Speaker 9: be ninety years old, and if if they rape eighty
Speaker 9: seven year.
Speaker 3: Old women in Coney Island, Brooklyn, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was.
Speaker 7: Why do you think there's a special category of person.
Speaker 7: They're as bad as anybody that comes in. We have
Speaker 7: bad ones too, and I'm all for it. We have
Speaker 7: others sort of negotiating with two. But no, it's if
Speaker 7: it's if it's a home grown criminal, I have no problem.
Speaker 2: He's really obsessed with baseball bats thing. I don't quite
Speaker 2: know what that's about.
Speaker 4: It seems like a specific case that he's referring to.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's something he remembers like thirty years ago that
Speaker 2: it really got stuck in his head. Right, But also
Speaker 2: later he says that they're negotiating with other countries to
Speaker 2: send US citizens to not just El Salvador.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean they've sent migrants, third country migrant to
Speaker 4: Panama before, right, and detain them there. Honduras I believe
Speaker 4: is building like a prison that's not dissimilar to Secord.
Speaker 4: Like I'm be guessing this will be their sort of
Speaker 4: way of courting allies in the hemisphere because they'll sort
Speaker 4: of pay them a relatively large amount in order to
Speaker 4: attempt to offshore people they don't like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, like as we've seen the past few
Speaker 2: years and increasingly so now, the effort to label like
Speaker 2: activists or people who are vocally opposed to the United
Speaker 2: States foreign policy, the United States and the State of
Speaker 2: Israel deeming them terrorists and then by extension, if you
Speaker 2: charge them with the crime, then criminals. The idea that
Speaker 2: they can be housed in a place like Sea cot
Speaker 2: now with very very limited to no due process. The
Speaker 2: whole due process question is still very up in the
Speaker 2: air for how they're going to handle that aspect. But
Speaker 2: you can't just take this as like, oh, you know
Speaker 2: that that's just Trump talking, like, no, this is this
Speaker 2: is something they really want to do. And it's like
Speaker 2: one of the freakiest things that I've seen in like
Speaker 2: domestic US politics in a long time. Earlier, Trump was
Speaker 2: recorded half whispering to Makayla telling him that El Salvador
Speaker 2: needs to build five more Sea Cought style torture prisons
Speaker 2: to house US citizens, as Trump says homegrown criminals. Bukeley
Speaker 2: replies that they will have enough room, and then the
Speaker 2: entire Oval office laughs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they said homegrowns.
Speaker 8: Next, the home growns, you get a build about five
Speaker 8: more places.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all right.
Speaker 2: It's the bleakest clip I've ever seen before. Yeah, talking
Speaker 2: about homegrowns. Their next got to build five more places. Oh,
Speaker 2: we have enough space. Everyone laughs. And then Trump shows
Speaker 2: off the new gold frames for the portraits in the
Speaker 2: Oval Office.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like a dinner party joke for them. It
Speaker 4: might just be worth noting that, like every totalitarian regime
Speaker 4: has housed its dissidents outside of the imperial core. Right,
Speaker 4: like like Germany totally did this in the East, right,
Speaker 4: Russia sent people to Siberia for Russia, so sobet Union.
Speaker 2: Creating creating these like stateless zones where like the regular
Speaker 2: laws of your of your like fatherland state do not apply, right.
Speaker 4: And where the horrors are so far from the populace
Speaker 4: that the populist can't really grasp them. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, this is like elementary school stuff. It says like
Speaker 2: like the first thing you learn about is concentration camps
Speaker 2: and gulags, and how that's like this symbol of evil
Speaker 2: and now it's something you laugh about in the Oval
Speaker 2: Office to send home growns to five disappearing torture camps.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like, just to be like even clear, I
Speaker 4: guess what distinguishes a concentration camp from a prison is
Speaker 4: that there is no due process right. People are sent
Speaker 4: there because of who they are, not because of what
Speaker 4: they did.
Speaker 2: Like if you're a Venezuelan man who may or may
Speaker 2: not have a tattoo.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like the way are I don't know what it
Speaker 4: will take for some people to realize what's happening here.
Speaker 2: And like the president of El Salvador is so on
Speaker 2: board for this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he doesn't hide from that reputation, right,
Speaker 4: he embraces it. His Twitter for a while had world's
Speaker 4: Coolest dictator in the bio. I don't know if it
Speaker 4: still does, like.
Speaker 2: And like both him and Trump have openly aligned themselves
Speaker 2: with quote unquote nationalism and nationalists. They're openly saying this.
Speaker 2: Trump said dictator on day one. That wasn't just a
Speaker 2: rhetorical device, that was literal. This is what he's doing.
Speaker 2: The Alabita president told Trump, you have three hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty million people to liberate, but to liberate three hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty million people, you have to imprison some. And
Speaker 2: you follow that up by saying that he is eager
Speaker 2: to help with that, And I fat.
Speaker 10: Mister President, you have three hundred and fifty million people
Speaker 10: to liberate it. But to liberate three hundred and fifty
Speaker 10: million people, you have to prison some.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: That's the way it works, right. You cannot just you know,
Speaker 3: free the.
Speaker 10: Criminals and think.
Speaker 3: Crimes are going to go down magically. Have to imprisoned them.
Speaker 10: So you can liberate three hundred and fifty million Americans
Speaker 10: that are asking for the end of crime and the
Speaker 10: end of terrorists.
Speaker 3: Many can be done, I mean, if you're doing it already.
Speaker 6: So I'm really happy to be here, honored any anger
Speaker 6: to help this whole.
Speaker 2: Like liberation through imprisonment thing is elementary school stuff here.
Speaker 4: You don't have to have a pH in the history
Speaker 4: of the nineteen thirties to have someone tell you that,
Speaker 4: like liberation of the chosen nation by purging of the
Speaker 4: undesirables is fascist shit. But like I'm here with one
Speaker 4: to tell you if that's what you need, you know,
Speaker 4: like this is textbook stuff, like Garrison's saying, like this
Speaker 4: is not debatable, Like I know, we spent the last
Speaker 4: four years debating is Trump a fascist or not? I
Speaker 4: don't think that matters hugely, right, like this is a
Speaker 4: fascist thing.
Speaker 2: It's so much more disturbing that now, according to like polls,
Speaker 2: like half around half the population maybe a little bit
Speaker 2: less just agree with the current way that deportations are
Speaker 2: happening and Trump's immigration policy like on a completely like
Speaker 2: flat basis. And if you spend any time on on
Speaker 2: X the everything app, watching videos of of these press conferences,
Speaker 2: it's full of people just like cheering this on completely,
Speaker 2: like completely blankly.
Speaker 4: I think that's a very skewed sample of people who
Speaker 4: totally paid for Elon Musk.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course, but like the number.
Speaker 4: Of people, Yeah, it's real humans saying like these are.
Speaker 2: Real people who just just completely completely blankly think this
Speaker 2: is a this is this is a net good and
Speaker 2: like this is those people are unreachable. You cannot come
Speaker 2: back from that, like you is, there is no coming
Speaker 2: back from that if you believe that the way depretations
Speaker 2: are currently happening is fair, just and right, Like I
Speaker 2: cannot understand you as a human anymore. That is so
Speaker 2: like divorced and like alien.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've gone past the point of no return, right like.
Speaker 2: Liberals who like shield the who like shield their eyes
Speaker 2: from like the horrors at the border. Like, I don't
Speaker 2: agree with that, but in some ways I can understand it.
Speaker 2: The open like cheering on of this right is like
Speaker 2: a whole it's a whole other level.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not like I can't bear to see it.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna ignore it so it will cause me to
Speaker 4: confront the no the contradictions. It's I'm seeing it and
Speaker 4: watch again, and I think it's fucking great.
Speaker 2: The last thing I'm gonna I'm gonna play here a
Speaker 2: scene and reporter asked Trump if he would obey a
Speaker 2: Supreme Court order to return someone to the United States.
Speaker 2: Instead of answering this question, Trump attacked the reporter and
Speaker 2: complained about how she wasn't praising him for deporting criminals.
Speaker 5: You said that if the Supreme Court said someone needed
Speaker 5: to be returned, that you would abide by that. You
Speaker 5: said that on Air Force one just a few days ago,
Speaker 5: and they said that it must facilitating.
Speaker 8: Why didn't you just say, isn't it wonderful that we're
Speaker 8: keeping criminals out of our country?
Speaker 3: Why can't you just say that, why do you.
Speaker 8: Go over and over and that's why nobody watches you anymore?
Speaker 3: You know you have no credibility.
Speaker 2: Please go ahead, Yeah, mad, very textbook authoritarian like blanket
Speaker 2: stuff like there's there's nothing to like commentate about that.
Speaker 2: It just is what it is. I guess we do
Speaker 2: have some breaking news because we're recordings on Tuesday. James
Speaker 2: wanna want to, impossibly five minutes or less, fill us
Speaker 2: in about the the update from the from the District
Speaker 2: Court on Garcia's case since it was sent back to
Speaker 2: the to the District Court from the Supreme Court last
Speaker 2: week regarding his possible facilitated return to the United States.
Speaker 4: Right, so much of this has hinged over what facies means. Right, Like,
Speaker 4: they found the legal concept that they can argue ad
Speaker 4: nauseum and in this case it's the word facilitate. The
Speaker 4: DOJ didn't present a new information today, but we see
Speaker 4: that there's some hopeful things on a district court judge
Speaker 4: and then it kind of all goes up in flames.
Speaker 4: But I think genius is x I and I S
Speaker 4: is how the name is spelled. I believe it's genius
Speaker 4: said that every day that he's there is a day
Speaker 4: of further irreparable harm. And she talks about the process
Speaker 4: being at the roots of the constitution. Right, She's ordered
Speaker 4: for like two weeks more of discovery, which is going
Speaker 4: to mean that both sides have more time to repair
Speaker 4: their cases. Right. She wants people to testify in front
Speaker 4: of the court. She is so the administration has argued
Speaker 4: that facilitating his return would consist of them allowing him
Speaker 4: to enter the United States if Buke released him, and
Speaker 4: possibly providing a flight for that to happen, but not
Speaker 4: crucially ensuring his release from SECOD. Right, and so anything
Speaker 4: else going to that doesn't matter. Ginis said that like
Speaker 4: their interpretation of the word flies in the face of
Speaker 4: the plain meaning of the word. Quote, when a wrong
Speaker 4: fear removed individual is uh. And then I'm adding to
Speaker 4: the quote here I guess or context. She means, when
Speaker 4: a wrong fe remove individual is taken outside the US,
Speaker 4: it's not so cut and dried that all you have
Speaker 4: to do is remove obstacles domestically. She also said, quote
Speaker 4: to the Department of Justice here, you made your jurisdictional arguments,
Speaker 4: you made your venue arguments, you made your arguments on
Speaker 4: the merits you lost This is now about the scope
Speaker 4: of the remedy. Right, this is a case that Miller
Speaker 4: is claiming they want that's pretty unequivocal for a justice. However,
Speaker 4: she does not seem to think that it is within
Speaker 4: her power to request his return from El Salvador. So
Speaker 4: she's calling for things to move quickly. Right, they want
Speaker 4: to conduct depositions about twenty third of April, she said,
Speaker 4: quote council vacations, council over appointments. I'm usually pretty good
Speaker 4: about it. Not this time. I'm going to be available
Speaker 4: if you need to do it odd hours or weekends.
Speaker 4: That's what I'm talking about. Like anything short of a
Speaker 4: judge saying you have to go to SECOT, remove him
Speaker 4: from the cell, put him on the plane, and bring
Speaker 4: him back to America is going to be interpreted by
Speaker 4: the Trump administration to mean that they don't have to
Speaker 4: do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're going to weasel their way around it, the
Speaker 2: same way you heard Steven Miller weasel his way around
Speaker 2: every question, and with with truth being used as a
Speaker 2: as a flexible medium. Yeah, to shape a sculpture of
Speaker 2: their choosing. And like they've done that, right, the word facilitate.
Speaker 2: I think most people who are first language English speakers
Speaker 2: have a fairly good grasp with what that means, and
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean like remove barriers domestically, that's what they've
Speaker 2: gone for. The only way that he is getting out
Speaker 2: it's a majority Supreme Court decision that is extremely explicit
Speaker 2: that directs the Trump administration to go to El Salvadore
Speaker 2: and remove him from that prison. I haven't seen anything
Speaker 2: to indicate that we're getting that anytime soon. And as
Speaker 2: the judge said, right every day he's there, he's a
Speaker 2: reparable harm is done to him. And that's where we're
Speaker 2: at right now, right with people arguing over the definition
Speaker 2: of a word, as hundreds of people are locked up
Speaker 2: having done nothing wrong in a giant torture prison. And
Speaker 2: this is not the only person who we believe was
Speaker 2: quote unquote mistakenly sent other supporting today coming out of
Speaker 2: documented New York.
Speaker 4: Yeah, good outlet.
Speaker 2: By the way, a father of a nineteen year old
Speaker 2: legal legal immigrant from Brooklyn. This nineteen year old with
Speaker 2: no tattoos, was kidnapped off the streets of New York.
Speaker 2: The quote from his father reads, quote the officers grabbed
Speaker 2: him and two other boys right at the entrance to
Speaker 2: our building. One said, no, he's not the one, like
Speaker 2: they were looking for someone else.
Speaker 4: One officer to be clear, correct, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2: The other officer said take him anyway, unquote. And now
Speaker 2: this father, exactly a month later, is still looking for
Speaker 2: his miss son, who is disappeared into a Nel Salvador
Speaker 2: torture prison.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jesus. Like I've said before on this show, like
Speaker 4: one of the things that I learned in the Darien
Speaker 4: Gap was how much people can care about their kids,
Speaker 4: and like this shit that I saw people do to
Speaker 4: ensure that kids had a better life, like broke my
Speaker 4: heart in a way. That war hasn't that like anything
Speaker 4: else I've seen in my life hasn't. And it's like
Speaker 4: honestly really hard for me to hear stuff like that
Speaker 4: and and like not react just being really sad or
Speaker 4: really angry, like it's fucking brutal.
Speaker 2: Things are looking a lot more grim in my mind
Speaker 2: than they were when we recorded that Should You Leave
Speaker 2: the United States episode. I still think the things I
Speaker 2: said there I stand by, and I stand by the
Speaker 2: only recommendation I have is to create options for yourself,
Speaker 2: and I think those options should be created as soon
Speaker 2: as possible, especially if you're sittingship is a topic of
Speaker 2: debate according to the United States government, But even that
Speaker 2: will not keep you safe, as we've as we've talked
Speaker 2: about it today.
Speaker 4: And your options include creating networks to take care of
Speaker 4: one another. Right, Like, the things that will probably affect
Speaker 4: more of you than direct state violence are economic downturns,
Speaker 4: are recessions, right, things like this, like those are things
Speaker 4: that you can take care of one another through, and
Speaker 4: like you should plan to do that too. You should
Speaker 4: you should think about how you're going to pay your bills,
Speaker 4: how you're going to feed each other, how you're going
Speaker 4: to take care of your medical needs. Because I don't
Speaker 4: think that the world is going to want to keep
Speaker 4: doing business with the country that acts like this, and
Speaker 4: both economically and in terms of its conduct towards migrants.
Speaker 4: So like, your plans don't have to be to leave,
Speaker 4: like your plans should also include what to do if
Speaker 4: things get really bad, like in an economic sense. I'm
Speaker 4: not going to tell you what that means, but it's
Speaker 4: all we've already talked about, raids, mutual aid, It's all
Speaker 4: the basic preparedness stuff that is not as big and
Speaker 4: scary as leaving the country, but is nonetheless like vital.
Speaker 2: We will continue to report on the Garcia case other
Speaker 2: court cases regarding these three hundred people renditioned to El
Speaker 2: Salvador and Seacat in the next few weeks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just to finish up. As things continue to get worse,
Speaker 4: people keep reaching out to us, which we appreciate. If
Speaker 4: you would like to, you can email us cool Zone
Speaker 4: Tips at proton dot me. We will read it. We
Speaker 4: might not get back to you. Your email is not
Speaker 4: end to end encrypted unless the email that you're sending
Speaker 4: from is also encrypted that you can reach out to
Speaker 4: us there.
Speaker 2: See you on the other side.
Speaker 1: It can happen here is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1: You can now find sources for it could happen here
Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.