1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:13,800
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Oorenthal James Simpson dead aka

2
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:21,279
Speaker 1: oj aka the Jews, so many other names, former Heisman

3
00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:29,160
Speaker 1: Trophy winner, but he may be best known for this.

4
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,480
Speaker 2: Listen in a matter of the People of the State

5
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 2: of California versus Orenthal James Simpson, case number b A

6
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,280
Speaker 2: zero ninety seven two one one, we the jury and

7
00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,559
Speaker 2: the Ambulveden Title Action find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson,

8
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,199
Speaker 2: not guilty of a crime of murder in violation of

9
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,640
Speaker 2: penal cult Section one eighty seven a A felony upon

10
00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 2: Nicole Brown Simpson. I.

11
00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,360
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories O. J. Simpson on

12
00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,200
Speaker 1: his way to hell right now. But I play that

13
00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:04,960
Speaker 1: not guilty verdict because seemingly that has overshadowed everything else

14
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,399
Speaker 1: he has ever done in his life. You know, it's

15
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,480
Speaker 1: often said that the Lord loves a sinner, that's a

16
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 1: ciner that repents. But how did Simpson live his life

17
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:23,560
Speaker 1: after that moment when he snatched the Golden Ring, when

18
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,679
Speaker 1: he won the lottery with that not guilty verdict? The

19
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:34,600
Speaker 1: same as he did before. No change, no apology, no repentance,

20
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:40,120
Speaker 1: no reformation, no doing good works. As a matter of fact,

21
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 1: he continued to live his life boozing, drugging, sex, assaulting women,

22
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:54,720
Speaker 1: beating them, stealing, mooching, and trying to live off his

23
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 1: past glory as a football star. And somehow it seemed

24
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,240
Speaker 1: to worry. He got standing ovations every time he entered

25
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:09,160
Speaker 1: a restaurant or a bar, free court, side seats, you

26
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:15,239
Speaker 1: name it, special treatment. Wherever he went, women throwing themselves

27
00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 1: at Simpson. Why. I don't know. I'm just a trial lawyer,

28
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,840
Speaker 1: not a shrink, but I know this. He murdered you people,

29
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,360
Speaker 1: and there's something else.

30
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,160
Speaker 3: Listen, this is OJ Simpson's one day in court.

31
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,560
Speaker 4: By your decision, you control of his very life in

32
00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 4: your hands. Treated carefully, treated fairly, be fair, don't be

33
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,440
Speaker 4: part of this, continue and cover up, do the right thing,

34
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,519
Speaker 4: remembering that if it doesn't fit, you must have quit.

35
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,679
Speaker 1: Okay, you know not many phrases can actually make me

36
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,200
Speaker 1: feel nauseous, but that's one of them. Joining me an

37
00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,800
Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of what we know

38
00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 1: right now. But first I want to go to a

39
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:05,360
Speaker 1: special guest, a long time and dear friend of Nicole Brown's,

40
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,799
Speaker 1: Keith Zlamsowitch. You can find him at Keith z k

41
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 1: at aol dot com. Keith, thank you for being with us.

42
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:19,600
Speaker 1: You and Nicole were romantically linked for a long time,

43
00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:25,359
Speaker 1: and you remained friends throughout her life. She told you

44
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 1: a lot about OJ Simpson before she was murdered. What

45
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,760
Speaker 1: sticks out in your mind?

46
00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 5: She told me about all the violence that predicated us meeting.

47
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,520
Speaker 5: We actually had numerous instances of confrontation with OJ, face

48
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 5: to face threats, stalking. But when I first met Nicole,

49
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 5: she she clued me in on a lot of stuff

50
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,280
Speaker 5: that happened in there Trier that she never really told people.

51
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 5: I think partially embarrassed that she allowed it to happen.

52
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,920
Speaker 5: I'm her hardest to get out of the situation, so

53
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,840
Speaker 5: I unfortunately knew a lot of the horrible details about

54
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,640
Speaker 5: her situation and then lived it for several years up

55
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 5: until her murder.

56
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 1: When you say, Keith Zlovsowitch, that you had numerous confrontations

57
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 1: with Simpson, what do you mean by that, Well, it started.

58
00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,920
Speaker 5: I met Nicole in the winter of ninety two in Aspen,

59
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 5: and I didn't know who she was when I first

60
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,920
Speaker 5: met her. Really care told me that she was divorcing

61
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,159
Speaker 5: her husband. He was abusive, so she started to fill

62
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,200
Speaker 5: me in on that kind of thing. She knew I

63
00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,760
Speaker 5: had the restaurants in Los Angeles, so I'd be visiting

64
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,039
Speaker 5: out there soon after the initial weekend that we met.

65
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 5: So we connected immediately upon me arriving to town, and

66
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,560
Speaker 5: the first night or two she came to visit one

67
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 5: of my restaurants, Mets Luna and Beverly Hills. We had

68
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,200
Speaker 5: a big Tuesday night event that we did every week,

69
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,039
Speaker 5: so she brought some friends and it started instantly. The

70
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 5: first night I ived him down, I went to visit

71
00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 5: her at her house and we got thirty forty NonStop

72
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,640
Speaker 5: phone calls hang ups, so we were convinced we were

73
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,039
Speaker 5: being watched immediately from that point. A night or two later,

74
00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 5: when she joined me at Metsalouna and Beverly Hills with

75
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:21,000
Speaker 5: some of her girlfriends, OJ showed up almost instantly, you know,

76
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,960
Speaker 5: came pulling up in his Bentley and squealed the tires

77
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,719
Speaker 5: in front of the restaurant and slammed the door. Came

78
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 5: barging in right up to our table and slammed his

79
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 5: fist down on the table and proclaimed that he was

80
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,120
Speaker 5: OJ Simpson and she was still his wife. So that

81
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,720
Speaker 5: was the first instance, and then it was followed by

82
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,880
Speaker 5: numerous other ones. Every time we went out he would

83
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,040
Speaker 5: show up at whatever restaurant or bar. And then there's

84
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 5: the famous night that he followed us home from Roxbury.

85
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,599
Speaker 5: We were at one night and watched us engaging in

86
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,600
Speaker 5: an activity through the window of her house. We both

87
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,919
Speaker 5: know that he tried to get in, but the house

88
00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 5: was locked and alarms were set, and he approached the

89
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 5: next day.

90
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 1: Okay, white white, white, kath kaith I assume that this

91
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:13,440
Speaker 1: is the now famous incident or Simpson comes up to

92
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 1: Nichole's house and this is after they've broken up, and

93
00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,000
Speaker 1: is looking in the window and sees you guys making

94
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,480
Speaker 1: out kissing and does the backflip.

95
00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,360
Speaker 5: Essentially, we were unaware that he was outside the house,

96
00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,720
Speaker 5: but we knew that he had followed us that evening.

97
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 5: We were at several different places and he showed up

98
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 5: at them all. So Nicole just looked at me at

99
00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,000
Speaker 5: one point and said, let's just go home.

100
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,080
Speaker 3: So we went home.

101
00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,040
Speaker 5: We engaged in some activity in the downstairs living room,

102
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,200
Speaker 5: unawares outside watching us. We found out the next day

103
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,760
Speaker 5: when he showed up the house and her and I

104
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,000
Speaker 5: were in one of the back rooms and he burst

105
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 5: in the door, got in my face, started threatening and

106
00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,000
Speaker 5: screaming and yelling, and you know, tried to get her along,

107
00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,800
Speaker 5: which she was standing behind me. I was in between

108
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,560
Speaker 5: the two of them, so she was holding my hand

109
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 5: and I could feel her trembling. It was just it

110
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,400
Speaker 5: was a volatile situation and it could have gone either way.

111
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 5: He wanted to be left alone with her, and I wasn't.

112
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 5: I wasn't having any of that at that point. I

113
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,760
Speaker 5: was aware of what had happened in the past, so

114
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 5: I was scared for her safety and obviously my own.

115
00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 5: So we argued for several minutes until she convinced me

116
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 5: to wait outside the door, but stay close. She made

117
00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,679
Speaker 5: a very clear stay with an earshot so he could

118
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,480
Speaker 5: you know, read her the riot act as he used

119
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,360
Speaker 5: to doing. So that was the day after he watched

120
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,200
Speaker 5: us through the house and I could hear him screaming,

121
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 5: you know how he watched us through the window and he.

122
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 6: Followed us home.

123
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,840
Speaker 5: So it's a bad scene too.

124
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,800
Speaker 1: Then on trial lawyer with her own unique connection to A. J.

125
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:57,720
Speaker 1: Simpson and A. C. Collings defense attorney in the Atlanta jurisdiction,

126
00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,520
Speaker 1: Rene Rockwell you and I both tried a lot of cases,

127
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 1: and could you just take off your defense hat for

128
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,840
Speaker 1: just one moment and speak the truth? And what universe

129
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,320
Speaker 1: is Nicole Brown's killer? Not the same man that is

130
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 1: stalking her and following her and attacking her even after

131
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 1: they've broken up.

132
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,840
Speaker 7: Well, Nancy as not a defense attorney. Of course, he's

133
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 7: the usual and likely suspect. But here's a case where

134
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,040
Speaker 7: the jury has punished the state for the actions of

135
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:33,840
Speaker 7: the police.

136
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,080
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, I know what you're doing. Bobby Chaconne

137
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 1: joining me from a special agent with the FBI screenwriter

138
00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 1: Criminal Minds. You can find him at Bobby Chcne dot com. Bobby,

139
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,560
Speaker 1: you hear what she just did, right? She processed what

140
00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 1: I said, admitted it to be true that Simpson is

141
00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,800
Speaker 1: the killer, because who else would it be other than

142
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,160
Speaker 1: the man, other than the man that is stalking her

143
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,320
Speaker 1: and beating her and busting into the room with another

144
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:08,200
Speaker 1: guy there after they've broken up. But she said, instead,

145
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,320
Speaker 1: don't look at that, look at this. Look what the

146
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,680
Speaker 1: police did. What did the police do? They did nothing?

147
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,280
Speaker 1: You actually think there's some big conspiracy that they all

148
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 1: got together and said, hey, let's frame our favorite football star,

149
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, the Heisman Trophy winner, that guy. Yeah, let's

150
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,959
Speaker 1: frame him. That was all BS. I asked Johnny Cockr,

151
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 1: My former co anchor, one million times. Simpson did it?

152
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,760
Speaker 1: He did it? Didn't he? Cochrane would never say no.

153
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,800
Speaker 1: He always said, and Johnny Coffry, and God rest his soul.

154
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,280
Speaker 1: You know I'm telling the truth. He always said, Bobby

155
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,199
Speaker 1: Jerry acquitted him.

156
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:46,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

157
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,240
Speaker 8: Well, there's an old axiom that we just saw in

158
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,240
Speaker 8: play that says, if you can't attack the facts, you

159
00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,920
Speaker 8: attack the police. It's very popular in the defense bark

160
00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,480
Speaker 8: and obviously you gave a bunch of facts stalking, beating, three, threatening,

161
00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,599
Speaker 8: and then the defense attorney attacks the police. That's a

162
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,080
Speaker 8: very common axiom of the defense bar And what you

163
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 8: saw in the Johnny Cochrane clip that you ran, he

164
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 8: first started his closing argument saying this is OJ Simpson,

165
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,800
Speaker 8: and then he says I want him treated fairly. And

166
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,640
Speaker 8: then you heard Keith say OJ walked into a restaurant,

167
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 8: banged his hand on a table and said I'm OJ Simpson.

168
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 8: Johnny Conchrane didn't want him treated fairly. He wanted him

169
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,559
Speaker 8: treated as O. J. Simpson, the endeared athlete and celebrity

170
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,440
Speaker 8: that he was. So this ridiculous assertion that I want

171
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 8: him treated like anybody else. That wasn't the defense position.

172
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 8: The defense started the closing argument saying, this is OJ Simpson.

173
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,280
Speaker 8: Treat him like the beloved athlete and celebrity that you

174
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,800
Speaker 8: know him to be. And so fairness went out the

175
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:44,720
Speaker 8: window this.

176
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,160
Speaker 1: Day, the day that OJ Simpson is on his way

177
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,280
Speaker 1: to hell. He is still being lauded as a football icon,

178
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,160
Speaker 1: a star. But this is how I remember him.

179
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:03,320
Speaker 9: Listen, my house, what's the problem or my ex husband

180
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 9: or my husband just broke into my house and he's

181
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:07,160
Speaker 9: ranting and raving.

182
00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 10: Now he's just walked out in the front yard and

183
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,079
Speaker 10: he didn't drinking or anything. No, but he's crazy is

184
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,040
Speaker 10: he's not going to black?

185
00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:16,560
Speaker 1: What's your wearing right now?

186
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,040
Speaker 10: My pants and a golf shirt.

187
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:20,800
Speaker 1: And he said he hasn't been drinking.

188
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 10: Get you, No, he haven't send her against No, what's

189
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 10: your name? Nicole Simpsons marriages three two five gretton a

190
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,000
Speaker 10: green Way that has an apartment as a house.

191
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,200
Speaker 11: Please thank you.

192
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,199
Speaker 1: Oh and that's not all.

193
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 9: Listen someone over here now three two five grett and

194
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 9: a green He's back he's okay, what.

195
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,720
Speaker 10: Okay, Jimson? I think you know his record?

196
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 9: If you over here? What is he doing there? Over

197
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,160
Speaker 9: he's in a white frocks. Look for that to or

198
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:04,080
Speaker 9: I'll give in Wait a minute, what's your name? Either

199
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:21,240
Speaker 9: sports counter or whatever? Yeah, wait a minute.

200
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:34,040
Speaker 10: Something about some DIA and it's and joining me right now.

201
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,679
Speaker 1: Special guest Shannon Henry, President, founder of sass S a

202
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,720
Speaker 1: s s S Surviving Assault Standing Strong Shannon Henry Did

203
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 1: you hear there? At the end, she says, this is

204
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,040
Speaker 1: all my fault. She's got Simpson breaking down the door.

205
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 1: We've seen so many shots of Nicole Brown beaten up

206
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 1: to a pulp, and she says, it's all it's my fault.

207
00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,640
Speaker 1: I'm the reason this is happening.

208
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,400
Speaker 6: To me, right And it's true so many survivors try

209
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 6: to navigate the way that these abusers are abusing them.

210
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,200
Speaker 6: It's you know, they're making sure that they're not sleeping,

211
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 6: they're controlling finances, they're physically abusing them, mentally abusing them.

212
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 6: There's so many different things. You can't wear this, you

213
00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,120
Speaker 6: can't go out with this person. And so what you

214
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,920
Speaker 6: see there is her going gosh, I've tried so hard

215
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,839
Speaker 6: to manage the way that he treated me, but inevitably

216
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,760
Speaker 6: it's always out of control because he's Oj Simpson and

217
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:34,720
Speaker 6: this is what he does.

218
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,360
Speaker 1: Shannon Henry, I was trying to get it out of

219
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,360
Speaker 1: Renee Rockwell, who has tried so many many cases, including

220
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 1: cases where there are there's domestic violence. But Shannon, is

221
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:52,320
Speaker 1: there any universe where the man that repeatedly stalks, beats

222
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,560
Speaker 1: the victim is not the man that kills her? That

223
00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,320
Speaker 1: is crazy talk.

224
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:00,600
Speaker 9: It is talk.

225
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,920
Speaker 6: And we know that people like this in general do

226
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,720
Speaker 6: not change. They're going to keep this pattern of behavior

227
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,880
Speaker 6: which always increases with intensity and frequency over time. And

228
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 6: then you see that, you know, those wires in his

229
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,800
Speaker 6: mind are crossed so far back. His feelings, his safety,

230
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:24,760
Speaker 6: his emotions are first and foremost his priority, not hers,

231
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,160
Speaker 6: and it never will be. And you can say, well,

232
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 6: can we get therapy, can we do all the things

233
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,720
Speaker 6: to try to make this better, But again, those wires

234
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 6: across so far back, and it's kind of like, if

235
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,680
Speaker 6: she were to stay with him, it's like putting an

236
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 6: alcoholic in a bar and saying, don't drink. He is

237
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,680
Speaker 6: more in love. She may have been in love with him,

238
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,480
Speaker 6: but he is more in love with controlling her than

239
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 6: he ever was with her herself, and so they had

240
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,560
Speaker 6: two different definitions of love. She truly wanted to love him.

241
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 6: She tried to stay from the age of eighteen until

242
00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 6: he murdered her at thirty five.

243
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 9: And my emergency, someone over here now for three two five? Gretton,

244
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 9: agree he's back?

245
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 12: Please? Okay?

246
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 9: What does he look like?

247
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 10: Okay Simpson? I think you know his record.

248
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,320
Speaker 9: I'll be over here. Okay, what is he doing there?

249
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,160
Speaker 9: Throw him over? Wait a minute? What kind of cry?

250
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,280
Speaker 9: He's in a white broncle for that. Wait a minute?

251
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 9: What's your name?

252
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 10: Okay?

253
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 9: Is he's the sports canter or whatever?

254
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:27,320
Speaker 6: Yeah?

255
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 9: Okay, wait a minute, what's what is he doing?

256
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:51,560
Speaker 12: You? O? J?

257
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:56,720
Speaker 1: Simpson dead? But his legacy and for those of you

258
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 1: that can't see me, can only hear me. I'm definitely

259
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 1: using air quote. His legacy lives on. What legacy is that? No,

260
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,720
Speaker 1: not of a gridiron great, a Heisman Trophy winner, a

261
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 1: loving father and husband. His legacy is getting away with

262
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:23,320
Speaker 1: murder and then seemingly living the high life for the

263
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,520
Speaker 1: rest of his life after kicking Lady Justice in the teeth.

264
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 1: A lot is being made of his football career and

265
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 1: what a quote legend he is. But I want to

266
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,600
Speaker 1: show you something. This is the reality of OJ Simpson.

267
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,000
Speaker 1: I want to warn you. This is graphic content. Prime

268
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 1: scene photos from the night of a double murder. Nicole

269
00:16:51,920 --> 00:17:00,080
Speaker 1: Brown left lying outside her home covered in blood, and

270
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,520
Speaker 1: from what we've learned from the autopsy report, her head

271
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 1: was barely still on her body. Ron Goldman horribly, horribly

272
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 1: sliced and stabbed. This is what Oj Simpson is, murder

273
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 1: and desecration. And the suggestion that the police somehow formed

274
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:37,440
Speaker 1: a conspiracy to frame a football star is just more

275
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 1: crazy talk. Somehow my old co anchor, Johnny Cochran managed

276
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,840
Speaker 1: to pull it off. Did you see the look on

277
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 1: all the lawyers faces when they not guilty was announced?

278
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,919
Speaker 1: You're like, what did you hear? That? Joining you right now?

279
00:17:54,560 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: In addition to Nicole's longtime friend Keith zlamswitch Fornee Rockwell,

280
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:06,439
Speaker 1: Bobby Chaconne, Shennon Henry, doctor Jory Crafsen, Art Harris with me,

281
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 1: former CNN national investigative correspondent who was on the Simpson

282
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,560
Speaker 1: case as it unfolded. You know the problem now, Art

283
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 1: is that I don't think the victims have anywhere to

284
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,440
Speaker 1: put their anger and their grief. You know, at first

285
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 1: there was the trial. They got through the trial. Then

286
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 1: there was the civil trial, which they won after Sebstance

287
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,720
Speaker 1: scored what a negative forty on its light detector, caught

288
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,600
Speaker 1: in one lie after the next after the next, including

289
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 1: those Bruno molly shoes. The bloody footprints clearly were Bruno o' molly's.

290
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 1: He said he didn't own any and then they were

291
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,400
Speaker 1: found in a photo from the Inquirer. I mean, there's

292
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,120
Speaker 1: just so many lies about that night. So they get

293
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,439
Speaker 1: through the civil trial, they win, they go on a

294
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:04,959
Speaker 1: crusade for justice. Simpson is dead. There's nothing to fight anymore.

295
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 1: It's over. And to me that that really takes wind

296
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 1: out of their sails. And it's just another reminder that

297
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 1: Ron Goleman and Nicole Brown are never coming back.

298
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 3: So O J.

299
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:28,400
Speaker 13: Simpson was was a jock obsessed with with someone he

300
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 13: believed he owned, and that was Nicole he was. He

301
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,199
Speaker 13: was enraged that she was driving a white Ferrari he

302
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 13: bought around Beverly Hills, around Matsalona and going to visit

303
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 13: you know, Ron Goldman. He was following them everywhere and

304
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 13: so you know, the night that they had they were visiting,

305
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 13: and and she put candles out and made it try

306
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 13: to make it special for someone she found very special,

307
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 13: who later would try to come between her and a

308
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 13: knife and O. J. Simpson, you know this is this

309
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 13: is a crazy totally. I mean the guy was obviously associopath,

310
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 13: but also a psychopath. I mean he had no he know,

311
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 13: no compassion. I mean, if you can do this to

312
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,400
Speaker 13: the mother of your children, what what can't you do?

313
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 3: Hey?

314
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,159
Speaker 1: Aright, Harris, I got a question for you. You did a

315
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: lot of investigative reporting, You did a lot of digging

316
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: during the trial. Okay, Simpson is dead. How about the truth.

317
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 1: Isn't it true that that night, the Knight of the murders,

318
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: he was high as a kite on drugs, possibly met.

319
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 3: Well and he did a lot of cocaine.

320
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 13: And Nancy I interviewed his limousine driver who said that

321
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 13: if you were a friend of OJ's, he would share

322
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,239
Speaker 13: his cocaine with you. His cousin, her cousin, Ralph Mauer, Uh,

323
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,120
Speaker 13: did a lot of cocaine with OJ. And that was

324
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 13: a stumbling block in the marriage because he was you know,

325
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 13: he was out of it a lot, and uh and

326
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 13: and and you know that that drug can make you

327
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 13: especially enraged and if he's doing other things too. And

328
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 13: Nicole was not totally innocent in the party partying, but

329
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 13: that was something that came between them. And this is

330
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 13: something that yeah, he was fueled with rage and and.

331
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 3: And often high on cocaine.

332
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 13: So but if you look at the also if you

333
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 13: look at the bloody footprints and the walkway, police analyze

334
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 13: that and they they were able to to say that

335
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 13: this is he moved between the two people, uh, you know,

336
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 13: slicing and slashing and then he cut himself. All the

337
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 13: evidence is there, and you know, the mare never get

338
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 13: a Fletely Bailey. The DNA did not matter because uh,

339
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 13: a flee Bailey had. They had a plan to pick

340
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 13: jurors who who did not believe in DNA. There was

341
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 13: a very very callous in terms of how to pick

342
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 13: the right jury. That picking people who did not have

343
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 13: had never taken like high school science and math, and

344
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 13: they bored them to death. And then they used Ojay's

345
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 13: celebrity to to you know, to reach the verdict. He

346
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 13: reached out to people he'd left behind long ago. Nancy

347
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 13: the black community he pretended to care about, but look

348
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 13: at how he was living, and this was he did

349
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 13: not have.

350
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 3: You know, he was not tried by a jury of

351
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 3: his peers.

352
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 13: If he had been, he would be in It would

353
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 13: have been in Santa Monica because his peers were country

354
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 13: club golfers, and so here he was. They found the gloves.

355
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 13: They were his size, extra large. Nicole had gotten them

356
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 13: for Christmas, and you know, all the evidence was there.

357
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 3: It's just how do you, how do you? How do you?

358
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 3: How do you get over that?

359
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: State of California versus Orenthal James Simpson case number b

360
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: A zero ninety seven two one one, We, the jury

361
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 2: and the ambulved in title action find the defendant or

362
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 2: Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of a crime of murder

363
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 2: in violation of Pinal Coult Section one eighty seven a

364
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: A felony upon Nicole Brown Simpson.

365
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just looking at Johnny Cocker when that happened.

366
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 1: He's like, what nobody can believe it, including me? Uh.

367
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: You know to you Renee Rockwell, high profile defense attorney

368
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: in the Atlanta jurisdiction. You call me early early this

369
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: morning to remind me about a bet, and I'm not

370
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: a person much less on a case, so I wouldn't

371
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: put any money on it. But we did do a handshake.

372
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 7: And Nancy, what was the bet? I bet you just

373
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 7: liking Michael Jackson that he was not going to get convicted.

374
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 7: And where does it start from the venue where the

375
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 7: trial was held, Nancy, Just like the relationship that was

376
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 7: doomed from the start, so was the trial. There was

377
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 7: not going to be a conviction.

378
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: Nancy. Those are two bets that I lost. And again

379
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: I'd like to reiterate, I did not put money on it.

380
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: It was a handshake in a courthouse hallway. I swore

381
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 1: there was no way Simpson was going to walk on

382
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: this because the evidence was so strong, and somehow, by

383
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: the time f Lee Belly and Johnny Cochran got through

384
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 1: with the case, everybody believed the police had taken part

385
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: in some big conspiracy. The police got put on trial

386
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 1: and Simpson walked. Okay, you know I heard Art Harris

387
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: talking about the crime scene and aren't Harry there have

388
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: been a lot of theories, And again, didn't you tell

389
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: me that just before the murders, Simpson was with his

390
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: dealer at a Burger King, and yes, you're right, it

391
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: was cocaine, not meth. Isn't that true? He was with

392
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: his dealer getting jacked up at a Burger King.

393
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 3: I believe so.

394
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 13: So however he got it, Nancy, he had. He had

395
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 13: a lot of cocaine and he would often share it

396
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 13: with his friends. Limousine driver told me that, and a

397
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 13: lot of people who were friends of his.

398
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 3: He was, he was. He loved a party and that's

399
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 3: what he did.

400
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: Well, I guess you call it partying art Harris, I

401
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 1: call it a felony. But that said something else you

402
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: said about the footprints. There have been a lot of

403
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: theories that's been out over the years, such as his

404
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: son was responsible, not true, that there were two attackers

405
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: not true. And you said something very critical that was

406
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: never really emphasized at trial. The footprints then went back

407
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: and forth between Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were from

408
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: the same person. There was one pair of Bruno Mali

409
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: shughes going back and forth. There were there were no

410
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: other footprints except for one person. Isn't that true?

411
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: That's right?

412
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 13: And Oj cut himself in between cutting cutting the two victims.

413
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 13: So uh, you know they got that DNA off the

414
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 13: off the crime scene too, Nancy, And it was a

415
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 13: it was a horrific scene. And I don't know how

416
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 13: you get over that, but but they.

417
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 3: Were able to see the way that the.

418
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 13: Footprints moved, that that he was just going back and

419
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 13: forth until they bled out.

420
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 3: So this was.

421
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: He was high as a kite on cocaine and angry.

422
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: He was angry before he got jacked up. And when

423
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: you've got a football player of his notoriety and his

424
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: skill and his agility, as I was saying, he had

425
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: hands the size of two Virginia Ham's and then he's

426
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: already angry about Nicole Brown seeing someone else. Then he

427
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: gets cranked up on coke. What do you think is

428
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: going to happen? But if that's not enough, he apparently

429
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: is clairvoyant as well. Listen, I remember I grabbed a knife.

430
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: I do remember that portion, taking the knife from Charlie.

431
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: And to be honest, after that, I'll remember what in

432
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: the h E Double L that is from his book

433
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: if I did it. I remember I grabbed a knife.

434
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: I do remember that portion taking the knife from Charlie's Charlie,

435
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: And to be honest, after that, I don't remember joining

436
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: me right now, doctor Jory Crasing, psychologist's former law enforcement

437
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 1: and faculty at Saint Leo University. Doctor Jory, thank you

438
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: for being with us. Why is it that so many

439
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: stone cold killers are clairvoyant? Remember Scott Paterson said to

440
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: his girlfriend, Yeah, it's going to be the first Christmas

441
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,959
Speaker 1: I have without my wife. She died and then boom,

442
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: it became true. And here you have Simpson having a

443
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: dream of sorts about killing Nicole and it matched up

444
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: exactly with the facts. Wow, some of those are like delusions, definitely.

445
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 14: And but can I address the thing about the cocaine,

446
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 14: cause I find that very interesting. Even back in that

447
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 14: period of time, there was a lot of cocaine in

448
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 14: use in this country, and here in Florida we experienced

449
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 14: several cases of what's called cocaine toxicity, that's like an overdose,

450
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 14: but then the cocaine actually becomes toxic in the system

451
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 14: and it starts to create this hypervigilance and psychologically moves

452
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 14: them into psychosis. And when you look at this attack,

453
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 14: how aggressive and violent was you know, that's outside the

454
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 14: realm of normal human behavior. That's something I would expect

455
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 14: to see as a psychologist, as a homicide investigator when

456
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 14: I worked at some substance to add to that aggression,

457
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 14: and that could be like cocaine definitely would fit. Methanphetamine,

458
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 14: phoenix cyclodine PCP would be another one.

459
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 15: With the jury in above entitle case. Find the defendant

460
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 15: Orenthal James Simpson as follows. Count one conspiracy committed crime guilty.

461
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 15: Count two conspiracy commit kidnapping guilty. Count three, conspiracy commit

462
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 15: robbery guilty. Count four Burglary while in possession of a

463
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 15: deadly weapon guilty. Count twelve coorsion with use of a

464
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 15: deadly weapon Alfred Beardsley alternative count six guilty of porsion

465
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 15: with use of the deadly weapon, dated this third day

466
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 15: of October two thousand and eight. You're number three four person,

467
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 15: Ladies and gentlemen, the jury are those your ritics is read?

468
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 15: So say you one, So say you all. As to

469
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 15: defendant Orenthal James Simpson.

470
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, mister Simpson.

471
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 7: Home suit.

472
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: So this guy wins the jackpot, right, he gets a

473
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: not guilty on a double murder when he so clearly

474
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: did it. His blood at the crime scene when he

475
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: cut himself. As Art Harris just reminded us, he has

476
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: the bloody shoes, the Bruno Molli shoes, that the footprints

477
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: were at the scene. The victim's blood was on his

478
00:30:53,800 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: socks found in his home. He did it. So what

479
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: does he do after that? Does he reform? Does he say, oh,

480
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: thank you God in heaven. I'm going to lead a

481
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: life to honor you, or to make up to the victims,

482
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: to make up to crime victims, to make up to

483
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: batter women. No, he keeps on boozing, drugging, chasing every

484
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: Nicole Brown look like he can find, sex assaulting them.

485
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: There are reports that he would walk up to Nicole

486
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: Brown in public, in public at restaurants and bars and

487
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: grab her by her crotch in front of people. The

488
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: beatings go on and on with different women. I'm sure

489
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 1: you're all familiar with that. Instead of changing his life,

490
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: accepting responsibility, maybe even apologizing. Hey, he could have even

491
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: blamed his drug habit. A lot of people would have

492
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: bought into that, but no, he did none of that. Instead,

493
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: Art Harris, he teams up with a former co defendant.

494
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: I believe you're familiar with Charles Arlick aka Charlie Tuna

495
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: that I tried in Inner City Atlanta and put away

496
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: for cocaine for twenty years for trafficking in cocaine. He

497
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: was a rich playboy at the time that lived in

498
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: a high rise on Peachtree Street right across from Lindburgh,

499
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: and a big hunk of uncut cocaine was delivered to

500
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: his place and I got him. He gets out of

501
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: jail early art and somehow, out of all the places

502
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: in the world, he makes his way to OJ Simpson

503
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: and what do they do? Come in an armed robbery

504
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: in Vegas, amazing Nathy.

505
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 13: He was there to reclaim, he said, memorabilia that had

506
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 13: been you know, sold out from under him and that

507
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 13: he felt entitled to so.

508
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: Uh.

509
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 13: He was told that it was in this room. Do

510
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 13: you want to get into this? It was in the

511
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 13: room at this hotel. And he shows up with a

512
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 13: friend who has a gun, and suddenly, uh, he's back

513
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 13: in play for the for for law enforcement.

514
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: Uh.

515
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 13: He's arrested and charged with armed robbery and gets nine years.

516
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 13: And often people wonder, uh, you know, was this you know,

517
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 13: may you know make up a makeup sentence for what

518
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 13: he avoided? Your your friend, your colleague, Judge Glass.

519
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 3: Threw the book at.

520
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 13: Him and uh, uh you know, he was never contrite.

521
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: He was never.

522
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 13: You know, he always blamed the cole and as as

523
00:33:54,600 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 13: often happens in domestic abuse and murders. Uh, you know,

524
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 13: he blamed her and she it was her fault because

525
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 13: she was the one who made quote him mad and

526
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 13: she deserved it. And that's the only way he could,

527
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 13: you know, go on living with himself, I suppose, because

528
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 13: she was the woman behind his rage and you know,

529
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 13: was cavorting and having a normal life.

530
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: Here to Keith Zlamzowitch, Nicole Brown's boyfriend, Keith, have you

531
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: noticed how even now people steal gloss over, they airbrush

532
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: the truth about Simpson's felonies, his crimes. For instance, he

533
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: was roped in to the armed robbery in Vegas. He

534
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: was quote back in play with law enforcement. He took

535
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: things that he thought were his. That's all a lie.

536
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: He that up with a guy I put in jail

537
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: for twenty years on trafficking cocaine, and they commit an

538
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 1: armed robbery in Vegas on unarmed people. That's what happened.

539
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: But to hear it told, oh, he was just taking

540
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: back some pictures and memorabilia footballs that were really his

541
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: to start with, that's bs. He was still doing the

542
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: same thing.

543
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 5: It's a pattern that never changed from early on. And

544
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 5: just to clarify, Nicole and I were not dating when

545
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,479
Speaker 5: she was murdered. He had forbid us to have any

546
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 5: contact and he threatened her pretty violently. The nine one

547
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 5: one teape that you played earlier in the program where

548
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 5: she says my name sparked an incident where he he

549
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 5: absolutely went ballistic over us and refused to allow her

550
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 5: any contact with me whatsoever for the last several months

551
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 5: of her life. Sadly, we had no intact because of that,

552
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 5: and she had tried the ill fated reconciliation with him,

553
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 5: but part of that deal was she was absolutely forbidden

554
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 5: any contact with me whatsoever.

555
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 3: So we had a.

556
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 5: Last conversation after that nine one one call she informed

557
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 5: me what had happened. I was out of town at

558
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 5: the time, so just to clarify that. But as far

559
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 5: as his other crimes, you know, and Charlie, there's a

560
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 5: school of thought out there that was proposed to me

561
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 5: by someone in La that Charlie from Las Vegas was

562
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 5: actually the Charlie mentioned in if I did it at

563
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 5: the scene of the crime. I mean, I know there's

564
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 5: no evidence to show a second person there, but there's

565
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 5: a theory out there that he was involved.

566
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: OJ.

567
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 11: Simpson was convinced the former close friend stole some personal

568
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 11: effects from him and was selling them through his sports

569
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 11: memorabilia business. So Simpson put together a group of five

570
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 11: men and on the night of September thirteenth, two thousand

571
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 11: and seven, they stormed twelve O three at the Palace

572
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,959
Speaker 11: Station hotel in Las Vegas and took the items back.

573
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 11: Two of the five men OJ led into the hotel

574
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 11: room that night were carrying weapons. Within three days, all

575
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 11: the men were arrested. OJ was initially held without bail.

576
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 11: Simpson faced twelve charges in all, including kidnapping and armed robbery.

577
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 11: He was convicted on October third, two thousand and eight

578
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 11: on all charges and was sentenced to thirty three years

579
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 11: in prison with possible parole after nine years.

580
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: To Renee Rockwell, high profile defense lawyer joining US out

581
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: of Atlanta, I remember the chase, the Bronco chase where

582
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: I guess AJ Simpson held himself hostage. That was a

583
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: Bronco commercial with a gun to his own head. That

584
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: was a Bronco I mean, as if there were ever

585
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: any doubt of rational minds at Simpson committed double murder.

586
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: Why would you go on the run holding a gun

587
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: to your head after already threatened suicide, after the murder

588
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: of your ex wife. I mean, it's such clear evidence

589
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: of guilt. And in that car was Ac Collings.

590
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 7: That's true, Nancy. And let me remind you about the

591
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 7: thousands of people that were on the roadway with signs

592
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 7: we love you OJ, you know free OJ. Do you

593
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 7: recall that, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, thousands that were lining

594
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 7: the roadway.

595
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: I remember very well. They were on bridges by the road.

596
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: They even had posters already, right.

597
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 7: And Nancy, why would you say that people just glossed

598
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 7: over the armed robbery He went to prison for that.

599
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 7: That was not a gloss over. It was a party

600
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 7: to a cross.

601
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: I said it because to hear it told now. And arn't.

602
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: Harris was at the trial. He knows exactly what happened.

603
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: He said. Asstead of saying he committed an armed robbery

604
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: and stole things from unarmed people, he said, Simpson's back

605
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: in play. It sounds like a football term. You're back

606
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 1: in play. He committed armed robbery. That's a gloss over.

607
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: He was heisee kite on coke. He murdered two people

608
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: and nearly cut off Nicole Brown's head and it's glossed over.

609
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: Did you know yesterday on the Heisman Trophy Twitter account

610
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: he was being mourned. All those posters along the highway

611
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: of the Bronco chase should have been about Nicole Brown

612
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: and Ron Goldman. Instead there were gojes.

613
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 10: How he should have taken note.

614
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 7: Somebody should have taken note of that and said, we're

615
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 7: not trying him where he's gonna get acquitted. We need

616
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 7: to try him downtown where he's gonna get convicted. I

617
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 7: blame that on the state.

618
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: What were you saying, Art Well, I was.

619
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 3: I was going to say that.

620
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 13: You know, in the Bronco he didn't just have the

621
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 13: gun nancy, which led everyone to believe always going to

622
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 13: go kill himself. Uh, you know, but he had a wig,

623
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 13: he had money, he you know, he had an instant

624
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 13: escape kit for a vacation in Mexico possibly, So you know,

625
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 13: this was not uh you know, this was not someone

626
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 13: who purely uh you know, he didn't have the courage

627
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 13: to She could kill himself probably, but the main thing

628
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 13: was this was not this was not something that was

629
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 13: cut and dried.

630
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 3: Uh.

631
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 13: And so if you look, if you look at all

632
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 13: the details, Uh, this was someone who was you know,

633
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 13: was running running from his own shadow, in his own soul.

634
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: This is what I know. He got the golden key.

635
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,919
Speaker 1: He had his whole life in front of him once

636
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: he had that not guilty verdict, which's totally wrong. And

637
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: what did he do. He squandered the rest of his life.

638
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: He never made good with the victims' families and spent

639
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: out his days denying, denying, denying. O. J. Simpson, you

640
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: never got justice here on earth, but you're getting it

641
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 1: tonight with Satan. Let's stop and remember American Hero Officer

642
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: Twin Lee just thirty six, shot in the line of

643
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: duty serving residents of Oakland, California. He leaves behind his wife,

644
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: his mother, and his family. American Hero Officer Twin Lee.

645
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: I want to thank all of our guests for being

646
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: with us, but especially to you for being with us

647
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 1: tonight and every night. Nancy Gray signing off, good night friend.

648
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: It's it's sad to give it