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Speaker 1: Previously, on our coverage of Leonard Piltier, we talked about

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Speaker 1: the history that gave rise to Native activism like aim

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Speaker 1: the American Indian Movement in the nineteen sixties and seventies.

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Speaker 1: In addition to a focus on treaty violations, land reclamation,

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Speaker 1: and other issues, Aims supported the resistance to mining interest

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Speaker 1: in South Dakota, but they were met in force by

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Speaker 1: a federally funded paramilitary group called the Goon Squad that

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Speaker 1: perpetrated a reign of terror beginning in nineteen seventy two

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Speaker 1: on the Pine Ridge Reservation, leaving sixty unsolved murders in

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Speaker 1: its wake. So on June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five,

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Speaker 1: when two plain close agents and unmarked vehicles drove onto

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Speaker 1: an AIME stronghold and drew their weapons, they were both

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Speaker 1: killed before the conveniently stationed SWAT teams could swoop in,

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Speaker 1: leaving the FEDS to figure out how they prosecuted someone

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Speaker 1: for defending their own community. This is wrongful conviction. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to wrongful conviction. You can listen to this and

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Speaker 1: all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and

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Speaker 1: ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction, where I'm once

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Speaker 1: again thrilled to be joined by Ben Bolan from one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite podcasts, Stuff They Don't Want You to Know.

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Speaker 1: As we continue now our coverage of the wrongful conviction

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Speaker 1: of Leonard Peltier.

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Speaker 2: To help tell the story, we'll hear again from the

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Speaker 2: man himself, one of his co defendants, Dino Butler, as

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Speaker 2: well as one of his attorneys, Bruce Ellison. In addition,

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Speaker 2: we'll hear from one of his appellate attorneys, Ron Cooby.

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Speaker 1: We'll pick up Leonard's story where we left off last

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Speaker 1: time on June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five, when federal

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Speaker 1: forces had Jumping bull Ridge surrounded and it seemed like

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Speaker 1: an eagle was showing Leonard Peltier, Dino Butler, and Bob

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Speaker 1: Rogudoo to safety. They had made their way into a culvert,

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Speaker 1: one of those sometimes barely walkable drainage pipes that travel

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Speaker 1: under roadways. They had stopped there to pray, and, almost

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Speaker 1: as if by divine intervention, a surveillance plane left the area,

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Speaker 1: so they made their move, unsure of their fate or

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Speaker 1: of how many agents and goon squad members were still

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Speaker 1: up on the road.

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Speaker 3: We had some young kids with us, and my responsibility

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Speaker 3: to make sure that they got safe. I sent them

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Speaker 3: ahead of me. I told them, go, I'll take up

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Speaker 3: the rear. And when they started shooting us, turn around

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Speaker 3: and start shooting back. And I'm not trying to make

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Speaker 3: myself and the hero. I was fighting for my life.

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Speaker 4: And there were so many bullets flying around us. Man,

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Speaker 4: I just knew that somebody was going to get shot.

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Speaker 4: I could just feel the bullets buzzing around me. And

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Speaker 4: I ran and ran until I couldn't run no more,

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Speaker 4: and I just I thought, all hecky with it, and

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Speaker 4: I just lay down catch my breath. I was expecting

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Speaker 4: bullets to enter my body anytime.

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Speaker 3: They were getting closer and closer to hit some of us,

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Speaker 3: so I would turn around to them, go keep going,

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Speaker 3: and I would start shooting back at them.

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Speaker 4: I caught my breath, so I jumped up and I

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Speaker 4: started running again, and I couldn't see Leonard, I couldn't

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Speaker 4: see anybody, but I was praying that nobody was hurt.

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Speaker 4: And I ran until I couldn't run no more, and

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Speaker 4: I stopped, dropped on the ground. And I just kept

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Speaker 4: praying like that, no bullets entered my body. And I

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Speaker 4: got up again and I ran up.

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Speaker 3: There was a little flat, so I finally made it

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Speaker 3: to the top, and here they come from the back

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Speaker 3: of the hill.

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Speaker 4: So I turned around. I went back to the edge

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Speaker 4: of that platte, and there was a car coming up

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Speaker 4: the hill full of goons. I laid on the ground

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Speaker 4: and I emptied my gun out that car and it

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Speaker 4: turned around and ran back down the hill real fast.

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Speaker 4: And I couldn't believe we were all safe. None of

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Speaker 4: us got shot, no wounds or nothing. Man, when we

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Speaker 4: got up to the top of that hill, two brothers

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Speaker 4: come riding down on horseback and they said, Hey, what's

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Speaker 4: going on. What's happening, brothers?

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Speaker 3: I asked him, I said, what are you guys doing here?

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Speaker 3: He said, well, this is our people, this is our

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Speaker 3: war too. We are here to help you. And so

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Speaker 3: they led us out of there. These two young kids

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Speaker 3: came through a hail of bullet to come and help us.

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Speaker 5: And that's a fact.

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Speaker 4: The last time the FBI's horse heading out of there,

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Speaker 4: following those brothers on horseback, and Noah wounded lived up there,

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Speaker 4: and these brothers knew him and everything.

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Speaker 5: He was the elder.

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Speaker 4: That's where they took us. And he opened the door

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Speaker 4: and he says, I've been expecting you come on in.

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Speaker 4: So we all walked in there and he said, I

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Speaker 4: don't have much food. He said, but you're welcome to it.

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Speaker 4: And he said, you eat what you want.

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Speaker 3: I found out later that the whole reservation was praying

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Speaker 3: for us that we would get out of there. So

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Speaker 3: I believe it great spirit helped us get out of there.

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Speaker 4: If we had done something wrong that day, we wouldn't

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Speaker 4: have got out of there. I mean that Diego helped us.

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Speaker 4: Those people help us. There was so much help.

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Speaker 2: At this point, FBI agents examined the bodies and collected

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Speaker 2: bullets and casings, and they allegedly found one two twenty

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Speaker 2: three caliber shell casing in the agent's trunk, typical AMMO

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Speaker 2: for AR fifteen's. This becomes important later since none of

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Speaker 2: the agent's guns could fire that caliber. Agent Williams had

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Speaker 2: a handgun, which he allegedly fired only twice, while Agent

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Speaker 2: Kohler fired a handgun, three Toho eight rifle, and a

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Speaker 2: twelve gage shotgun once each.

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Speaker 1: Which sounds just as strange as the fact that these

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Speaker 1: two well trained agents only fired five shots total, just

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Speaker 1: five against an estimated one hundred and twenty five bullets

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Speaker 1: that were rained down on them by forty two different

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Speaker 1: shooters from the ranch, who, by the way, let's call

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Speaker 1: it what it is. They had every right to defend themselves,

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Speaker 1: especially when unidentified intruders had driven five hundred yards onto

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Speaker 1: private property and drawn their weapons, whether they had a

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Speaker 1: warrant or not.

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Speaker 6: It was a day that should never have happened. Three

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Speaker 6: people unnecessarily died because of this government agenda.

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Speaker 3: After the shooting, they wanted to course arrest somebody, and

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Speaker 3: they couldn't get nobody to talk to them.

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Speaker 5: So the nationwide search starts.

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Speaker 6: They even included at one point every Native man who

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Speaker 6: had ever been in combat in Indo, China on.

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Speaker 5: Their suspect list. Wow, they also included a four year old.

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Speaker 1: While the FEDS tried to whittle down that suspect list,

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Speaker 1: AIM leadership, including Dennis Banks and Leonard Peltier, traveled out

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Speaker 1: west to gather financial support for whoever was about to

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Speaker 1: fight a tremendous legal battle, and one of their visits

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Speaker 1: was with the Godfather himself, Marlon fucking Brando.

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Speaker 3: He was from Omaha, Nebraska. There's a big reservation right

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Speaker 3: on the border there, so his mother had some Native

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Speaker 3: blood in there. Marlon had been involved in a Native

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Speaker 3: struggle since the fifties. Dennis and I decided to go

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Speaker 3: to California and see some of our friends there to

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Speaker 3: see if to give us some financial help, and we

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Speaker 3: were successful in that. Marlon even gave us a mobile

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Speaker 3: home to take back with us to Pine Ridge. It

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Speaker 3: was literally a war scene.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 3: You had FBI agents running around the fatigues, you had

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Speaker 3: helicopters flying all over, you had SWAT teams running around

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Speaker 3: the reservation.

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Speaker 6: It was decided that they were going to break the

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Speaker 6: American indew movement. They were going to do it one

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Speaker 6: way or another. They were going to go as for

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Speaker 6: as they could with kind of insurgency. Helicopters, armored cars,

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Speaker 6: a lot of heavy weaponry being brought into Pine Ridge

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Speaker 6: and throughout the reservation. Over over the days, searches of homes,

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Speaker 6: terrorizing the people.

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Speaker 3: They were threatening them, especially the kids. Somebody's going to

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Speaker 3: end up killing them because they were there. Something was

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Speaker 3: going to happen to their families. And they still couldn't

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Speaker 3: get nobody to talk to them because nobody knew nothing.

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Speaker 3: I dies, but nobody's going to talk to them anyway.

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Speaker 6: The local people felt tremendous love and support towards the resistance.

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Speaker 6: But to counter that, you want to terrorize people so

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Speaker 6: that they don't help, or maybe they inform as an

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Speaker 6: attorney with the who they need Offense Committee. I was

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Speaker 6: on the ground right after the firefight Oglala. I was

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Speaker 6: still studying for the bar at that time, and if

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Speaker 6: Offense Comittee had a little hut where some of us

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Speaker 6: stayed overnight, and we got a call that there had

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Speaker 6: been a goon attack and we went probably equivalent about

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Speaker 6: three city blocks over to this house and you could

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Speaker 6: still see the dust in the air, and you could

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Speaker 6: smell courtite, You could see the terror and the fear.

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Speaker 6: That was a woman and a couple of kids, And

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Speaker 6: these are kind of unique experiences for a young Jewish

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Speaker 6: kid out of New York.

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Speaker 2: But Bruce quickly got acquainted with the situation and he

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Speaker 2: told us about an AIM member named Byron Deserso. Deserts's

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Speaker 2: father read an underground newspaper that was critical of the

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Speaker 2: tribal chairman Dick Wilson and his federally funded pairamilitary group,

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Speaker 2: the Goon Squad, which had attacked Byron's friends.

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Speaker 6: They started shooting at a young couple as they got

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Speaker 6: out of their car. The person who defended himself with

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Speaker 6: a single shot twenty two against semioma and automatic weapons

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Speaker 6: was arrested in his home for disorderly conduct. So Byron

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Speaker 6: was going there to see how he can help out.

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Speaker 6: And Byron was on his way home in Womblee and

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Speaker 6: a caravan of goons passed by and they riddled the

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Speaker 6: car with bullets and they killed Byron Breccacy. The other

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Speaker 6: three people in the car were not hurt and as

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Speaker 6: a winning defense cann't remember. We were asked to go

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Speaker 6: down and to investigate. And the first thing that we

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Speaker 6: were met with in the streets of Wombli, we were

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Speaker 6: surrounded by a SWAT team which questioned us at gunpoint.

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Speaker 6: But it was part of that fear there. They had

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Speaker 6: already destroyed two homes by fire bombing them. They had

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Speaker 6: shot up about a half a dozen homes.

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Speaker 3: Well, we started to protect the people again because of

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Speaker 3: all the chaos and terrorism they were committing against the

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Speaker 3: local citizens.

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Speaker 6: There, and you know, staying overnight in that community and

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Speaker 6: watching the elders get together and give a warning to

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Speaker 6: the goons. You get out the next day by noon,

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Speaker 6: or we're going to come and take you out. Because

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Speaker 6: the government wasn't taking them out.

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Speaker 2: It appears that Leonard's participation in resisting this continued reign

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Speaker 2: of terror put a target on his back.

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Speaker 5: Cornypi documents.

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Speaker 6: They decided that Leonard had shot the agents two and

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Speaker 6: a half weeks after the firefight. And they made this

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Speaker 6: conclusion because they say they found some of his fingerprints

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Speaker 6: on some items that were in the camp area about

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Speaker 6: quarter from mile away from the scene.

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Speaker 1: Which says exactly nothing.

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Speaker 6: But that was where they started from. And then they

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Speaker 6: went and they targeted four people Leonard, Dino Butler, Bob

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Speaker 6: Robberdew and Jimmy Eagle.

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Speaker 3: Jimmy Eagle, I wasn't even in the state. It was

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Speaker 3: on a Wyoming reservation. We didn't understand why we were indicted,

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Speaker 3: why we were being accused, because we don't know who

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Speaker 3: the real shooters are.

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Speaker 2: They caught up with Dino Butler first.

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Speaker 4: I was arrested in Rosebud and I was taking to Pierce,

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Speaker 4: South Dakota. I was put in jail there, Dad two

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Speaker 4: holding tanks, one tank where they put all the goons

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Speaker 4: and the other tank of where they put all the

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Speaker 4: AIM members.

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Speaker 6: So first they captured Dino Butler in Rosebud and then

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Speaker 6: Bob Robberdy down in Kansas.

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Speaker 1: In September nineteen seventy five, Bob Robadu and two other

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Speaker 1: AM members, Michael Anderson and Norman Charles, were traveling through Wichita,

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Speaker 1: Kansas in Leonards station wagon when either ammunition or an

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Speaker 1: explosive went off in the back of the vehicle, and

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Speaker 1: authorities found an AR fifteen inside the burning wreck, which

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Speaker 1: was then taken for comparison to the two twenty three

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Speaker 1: shellcasing allegedly found an Asian Kohler's trunk, and we'll hear

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Speaker 1: more about that later. But meanwhile they put pressure on Bob, Mike,

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Speaker 1: Norman as well as the people back on Pine Ridge

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Speaker 1: and continued to pursue both Jimmy Eagle and Leonard Peltier.

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Speaker 3: They offered people money, cattle, They offered people land on

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Speaker 3: our own reservation. How the hell do you got a

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Speaker 3: right to offer us land on our own reservation to

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Speaker 3: become an informant, But the people said, no, we're not

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Speaker 3: going to do this to Leonard, you can kiss our ass.

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Speaker 5: We're not going to do it.

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Speaker 3: We're not going to get up there and make false

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Speaker 3: statements against him. So I was protected by the people,

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Speaker 3: but they were still continuing to do this for.

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Speaker 5: Quite a while.

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Speaker 3: And there is a treaty among the United States and

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Speaker 3: Canada that people can cross that border anytime they want.

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Speaker 3: So that's when the elders are telling me that I

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Speaker 3: should go to Canada and we could find out what

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Speaker 3: kind of evidence they got.

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Speaker 2: According to the extradition agreement between the United States and Canada,

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Speaker 2: the authorities must produce convincing evidence of guilt for Canada

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Speaker 2: to extradite. So Leonard left for Canada in Marlon Brando's

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Speaker 2: motor home with Dennis Banks as well as with two

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Speaker 2: other individuals, and they made it to Oregon. Then they

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Speaker 2: were pulled over on November fourteenth, nineteen seventy five.

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Speaker 3: We were traveling down the highway and this cop pulls

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Speaker 3: us over, and I think you jumped the gun because

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Speaker 3: right down the road they had a whole road blocks

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Speaker 3: and everything else set up, but just cop pulled us over.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I think it was premature. He started

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Speaker 3: shooting and I tried to draw them shooting away from

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Speaker 3: camouting her kids. They were all laying on the ground

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Speaker 3: and there was cop screaming and yelling and all.

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Speaker 5: This other shit.

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Speaker 3: It so we've split up and we've shaped I did

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Speaker 3: get shot there still to this day have laded my body.

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Speaker 5: Where were you shot Leonard in the back? That's a miracle.

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Speaker 5: If you weren't killed or paralyzed. You can't go to

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Speaker 5: a hospital.

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Speaker 3: You can't go to hospital. And I'm wounded. Some of

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Speaker 3: the supporters that opened their homes for me, and so

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Speaker 3: I had a doctor comment, we're trying to get the

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Speaker 3: bullet out of my shoulder. And from there I went

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Speaker 3: in a state with various people. I think it was

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Speaker 3: at least six months.

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Speaker 1: During which time Leonard's name went to the top of

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Speaker 1: the FBI's most wanted list before he went to Canada,

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Speaker 1: where he was picked up by the Royal Canadian Mounted

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Speaker 1: Police in Hinton, Alberta in February nineteen seventy six, and

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Speaker 1: then he was transported to the much less Native friendly

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Speaker 1: province of British Columbia.

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Speaker 3: I went before a very conservative judge who was not

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Speaker 3: my friend, not Indians, native people's friends. It was quite

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Speaker 3: obvious even he said it was not going to turn

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Speaker 3: me back to the United States. He said, there is

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Speaker 3: no evidence. I can't just turn this man over. They

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Speaker 3: continued to develop false evidence. They created a false witness.

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Speaker 3: I never met her in my life, but she was

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Speaker 3: claiming she was my girlfriend and she was an eyewitness.

284
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Speaker 7: And the FBI used what they knew to be a

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Speaker 7: perjured affidavit in order to obtain his extradition from Canada.

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Speaker 2: This is one of Leonard's appellot attorneys, Ron Cooby. He's

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Speaker 2: explaining how the FBI found a woman named Mirgal poor Bear,

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Speaker 2: who gave three affidavits. Her first, which was initially hidden,

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Speaker 2: said that Leonard had confessed to her after the fact,

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Speaker 2: and then poor Bear swore two more affidavits saying that

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Speaker 2: she was an eye witness.

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00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 7: Myrtle poor Bear, who was deeply psychotic, made a number

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00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,080
Speaker 7: of different affidavids till she satisfied the FBI, and she

294
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,400
Speaker 7: said she actually witnessed Leonard Pilteer shoot the agent's at

295
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 7: close range because she was there. Now everybody knew that

296
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Speaker 7: Myrtle poor Bear was nowhere near the scene of this.

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Speaker 3: The people in the community stated out right that he

298
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:31,800
Speaker 3: was the faith.

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Speaker 5: They don't know her.

300
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Speaker 3: They knew I was never a winner or not because

301
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Speaker 3: I had a girl from there. I had two kids there.

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00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 6: And by the way, when murder Poor Bear was Leonard

303
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,480
Speaker 6: Belteer's girlfriend, she was also a local aim leader's girlfriend

304
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Speaker 6: by the name of Dick Marshall, and later she claimed

305
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,040
Speaker 6: that Dick Marshall confessed to her to killing a goon.

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Speaker 7: Ancillary to that perjured Affid David was an Affid David

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Speaker 7: from firearms expert Evan Hodge that the shell case that

308
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,479
Speaker 7: was found in the agent's car had extractor marks on it.

309
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 7: Extractor mark comparisons are not an exact science, unlike say,

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Speaker 7: firing pin comparisons.

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00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,200
Speaker 2: When a semi automatic weapon is fired, the firing pin

312
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,119
Speaker 2: springs forward through the breach face behind the bullet. It

313
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,600
Speaker 2: strikes the bullet primer, a small explosive that ignites the

314
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 2: propellant gunpowder, and this creates enough high pressure gas to

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00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,879
Speaker 2: send both the projectile forward from its casing down the

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00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 2: barrel and sliding the casing back against the breach face

317
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 2: where it's grabbed by the extractor. This extractor slides the

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00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,679
Speaker 2: casing further back where it's hit by the ejector and

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Speaker 2: then flies out an opening on the right side of

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Speaker 2: the gut.

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Speaker 1: Each movement leaves striations, and each machine part leaves marks

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Speaker 1: on the casing, which can then be compared to other

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00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,959
Speaker 1: casings produced by test firing a suspect weapon, and really

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00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 1: all firearm analysis is best suited for excluding a firearm

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00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,920
Speaker 1: rather than actually making definitive matches. However, the firing pin

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Speaker 1: test provides the most accurate reading, and it improved from

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Speaker 1: two D microscopic images in nineteen seventy five to the

328
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 1: three D imaging available by twenty ten, delivering up to

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00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:27,040
Speaker 1: ninety eight point eight percent accuracy, Whereas extractor marks are

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Speaker 1: described as being able to identify class characteristics like the

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00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 1: make and model, but they have no value in identifying

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00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:39,399
Speaker 1: the individual weapon well. Extractor marks were the subject of

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Speaker 1: Evan Hodge's Affidavid, which, along with Myrtle Poor bears Affidavid

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Speaker 1: one extradition. So while Leonard's team appealed the extradition and

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Eagle hadn't even been located yet, Dino and Bob

336
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 1: went to trial in July of nineteen seventy six.

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Speaker 4: What do I went on trial and see the rapids

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Speaker 4: the FBI sent a team and they just terrorized those

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Speaker 4: people and see the rapids that they said that they

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00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 4: had two A members. I killed two fbis. No one

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00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 4: should go out alone by themselves. Don't leave your cars unlock.

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Speaker 4: They told them that there would be snipers up on

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Speaker 4: buildings and everything. There's going to be Dog soldiers terrorizing

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Speaker 4: the people and trying to set us free and all.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they really done a job on those people

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Speaker 4: before our trial.

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Speaker 2: The term Dog Soldiers refers to a militaristic band of

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Speaker 2: the Cheyenne Nation dating back to the eighteen thirties. They

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Speaker 2: served as an effective bulwark against western expansion in present

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Speaker 2: day Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, and Wyoming.

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Speaker 6: It was all about creating a climate of fear and terror.

352
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Speaker 4: When my parents, our defense team came to see the rapids,

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Speaker 4: my mother and father, my little brother, no one would

354
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Speaker 4: take them in. Finally John Tredell and his group came

355
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Speaker 4: in and they started making speeches and talking to these people,

356
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,040
Speaker 4: and the doors opened up, the church open up, and

357
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Speaker 4: they have some land to our people to set up

358
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Speaker 4: their camps there, and my mom and dad got a

359
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 4: hotel room. I mean, it was a beautiful what happened there.

360
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,400
Speaker 4: Without those people, we would have probably been convicted there.

361
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 1: So the FBI's jurypool poisoning had been neutralized for civil

362
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 1: rights attorney William Kunstler to present the self defense theory,

363
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 1: while the prosecution now had to prove their narrative.

364
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Speaker 6: The government's theory in about the Robberty trial was that

365
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 6: this was a pre planned ambush, and they argued that

366
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Speaker 6: and tried to assert it, and it kind of blew

367
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 6: up on their face in the middle of the trial.

368
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Speaker 6: It just became so ludicrous.

369
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Speaker 2: Initially, this narrative was built in part on Myrtle Poor

370
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Speaker 2: Bears affidavits, the ones which she also said that she

371
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: witnessed this group allegedly planning to lure agents into the

372
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 2: compound to be ambushed, but soon after the extradition proceedings,

373
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 2: she stopped cooperating with the FEDS. The FEDS then had

374
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 2: had to produce new testimony to assert that Bob and

375
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 2: Dino were part of some premeditated act.

376
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Speaker 6: One of the things that the FBI was very successful

377
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 6: at was going into jails and finding people who were

378
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 6: in the same jail, maybe as a person who they

379
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,679
Speaker 6: were targeting, and suddenly the targeted person would.

380
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 1: Confess them, of course, so how mus to this day,

381
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 1: that's right.

382
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,959
Speaker 6: And the FBI particularly liked to go to people who

383
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 6: are accused of breaking in homes.

384
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 5: And raping women, four children, or elders.

385
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 6: In this case, they found a man that was facing

386
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 6: extradition to Texas, where the Texas Rangers sent word that

387
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 6: if they get him back there, he's not going to

388
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 6: survive very long.

389
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Speaker 4: His name was Vern Harper. He said that I confessed

390
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,719
Speaker 4: everything to him in the jails, and the agreement that

391
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 4: he made with the government is that he would testify

392
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 4: against us if they would see that the charges in

393
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 4: Texas against him were dismissed.

394
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 6: And you saw how much do you know, talked after

395
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 6: all these years. Usually people when they made denal Butler,

396
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,360
Speaker 6: they might not hear him say a word for two weeks.

397
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 6: But nevertheless, that night those two became such good friends

398
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 6: that Dino confessed to not only being involved in killing

399
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 6: the agents, but also trying to assassinate a federal judge

400
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 6: in Rapid City.

401
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 1: But Vern Harper was exposed for what he had stood

402
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: to gain, and then another witness, Wilford Draper, admitted that

403
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: he'd changed his story upon instruction from the FBI. Nonetheless,

404
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 1: Draper put an AR fifteen in Leonard's hands, as did

405
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: Norman Brown, who received immunity and later recanted. Brown placed

406
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: Bob Dino and Leonard near the agent's car with an

407
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: AR fifteen, but at this point the AR fifteen from

408
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: the car fire in Wichitah was only tacitly linked to

409
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: the two twenty three casing bound in Asian Kohler's car.

410
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: After all, there were other AR fifteens on Jumping Bull Ranch.

411
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 6: In the public robbery trial, they presented testimony to basically

412
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 6: this weapon, this damaged AR fifteen that was found, and

413
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 6: witchta that they could not conclusively state that that weapon

414
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 6: had been used to fire at the agents because they

415
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 6: couldn't do a firing pin test on what was left

416
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 6: of this rifle, and it was a mess except for

417
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 6: what looked like a brand new bolt mechanism when we

418
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 6: saw it.

419
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: The brand new bolt mechanism is important to remember for later,

420
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: but for now, there was no known firing pin test. Therefore,

421
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 2: this was a case of self defense. It's a case

422
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 2: where the FEDS thought they were in pursuit of Jimmy

423
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 2: Eagle in a red pickup truck and drove on to

424
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: the compound. A firefight started, and Robadu and Butler arrived

425
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: after the fact, unsure who they were exchanging fire with,

426
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 2: and that scenario wasn't exactly out of ordinary for them.

427
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 2: At this time, we.

428
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 6: Were able to present members of the community, the people

429
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 6: of Pine Ridge, who came in and talked to the jury.

430
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 6: Helped them to understand what life was like during what

431
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 6: was regarded as the Reign of Terror, scores of people

432
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 6: being killed, people being kept on the floors of their

433
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 6: homes while bullets went through the walls. Clarence Kelly, the

434
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 6: FBI director at the time, we subpoened him and put

435
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 6: him on the witness stand and he admitted that everyone

436
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 6: has the right to defend themselves and it doesn't matter

437
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 6: who the aggressor is, and he even said even if

438
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 6: it's an FBI agent. And the jury became convinced that

439
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 6: Dino Butler and Bob Robert and Leonard had he been

440
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 6: on trial with them, were acting in self defense that

441
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 6: day in whoever was responsible for the killing of the

442
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 6: deaths of the agents.

443
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 3: Everybody knew that this was an American Indian Movement stronghold,

444
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,719
Speaker 3: and they came right onto where the cars were found.

445
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 3: If they did that to a white community, they would

446
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 3: have been shot too. We were protectling in our homes

447
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 3: like any other American has the right to do, and

448
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: they got acquitted. The jury to all white jury Christians,

449
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 3: conservative juries said those Indians have the same rights as

450
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 3: we do to protect their homes, to protect their families and.

451
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 5: Their children and everything else.

452
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 3: That's why they were acquitted.

453
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 6: The acquittals happened in seedar rapids. The jurors, some of

454
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 6: them in post trial interviews said by the way they

455
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 6: were treated, said they came away from the trial terrified

456
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 6: that they were going to face reprisals from the FBI

457
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 6: and the US marshalls.

458
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 4: After I got out of jail, I came back to

459
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 4: Oregon at my mother and father's house in Cutler City.

460
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 4: One night, meing Neelock decided to go up to town

461
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 4: and we met my cousin in the bar there just

462
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 4: playing pool. And while we were there, this one guy

463
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 4: and one white guy. He came over to our table

464
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 4: and he started talking about these two FBI agans that

465
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 4: were killed, and he was saying how they deserved that

466
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 4: and all this and that. My cousin said, well, what

467
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 4: the hell are you talking about? And he said, get

468
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 4: the hell out of here. I don't know if he

469
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 4: was a FBI Asian or not, but he left. And

470
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 4: I had an uncle that lived about two blocks from

471
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 4: where we were at. My mom and dad lived about

472
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 4: a mile from where we were at, and we were

473
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 4: on foot, so I told Neila, let's walk up to

474
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 4: my uncle's place and we'll stay there tonight. So we

475
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 4: did that. Next morning, my little brother came up there

476
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 4: and told us that the FBI had raised at my

477
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 4: mom and dad's house. And he said when he woke up,

478
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 4: an FBI Asian was pointing a pistol at his head

479
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 4: and says, where's your fucking brother at. And when they

480
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 4: found out we weren't there, Mom, she said, one of

481
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,239
Speaker 4: those Asians walked over to her and they told her,

482
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 4: you know, we may not have got him this time,

483
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 4: we will get him.

484
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 5: We will get him.

485
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 6: After the Butler robbery trial, the government kind of freaked

486
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 6: out and they decide that they're going to have a

487
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 6: meeting in Washington, DC at FBI headquarters. Prosecutors are their

488
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 6: the FBI's the air, and they either have to decide

489
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 6: that the agents followed Jimmy Eagle into the jumping boat compound,

490
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 6: which is what the deceased agents transmitted they were doing.

491
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 5: Or they had to say.

492
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 6: Jimmy Eagle was never there, and really it was Leonard

493
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 6: Peltier who was the killer.

494
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 7: Somebody had to pay, and that somebody was going to

495
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 7: be Leonard Peltier. He was the last one available to them.

496
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 6: So they made a decision to dismiss the charges against

497
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 6: Jimmy Eagle and in their words, put the full prosecutive

498
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 6: weight of the federal government to be directed.

499
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 5: Against Leonard Peltier.

500
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 6: So they decide that they have to if they're going

501
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 6: to win, they have to prove that Leonard did it.

502
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: Because Dino and Robert were able to prove that it

503
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: was self defense, they changed the whole story and said

504
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: that this was actually a cold blooded execution.

505
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 6: Then suddenly this damaged day R fifteen that was found

506
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 6: in Wichita, which they never attributed to Leonard in any way.

507
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 6: That weapon had to have been the one that was

508
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 6: used to kill the agents, And they found the showcase

509
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 6: and that was a couple of feet away in the

510
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 6: open trunk, and therefore Leonard Muster did it.

511
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: And by eliminating the idea that there were other ar

512
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: fifteens on the compound, which was just a lie. It

513
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: wasn't true. The extractor marked comparison in absence of a

514
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: firing pin test became enough for them to say that's

515
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: the gun, and since it was found close to the bodies,

516
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: the narrative was that he was able to walk up

517
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: to the agents, who were no longer a threat, and

518
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: execute them in cold blood, as supported by Myrtle Poor

519
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: Bears Affid Davids. But by this time Myrtle herself had

520
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: come forward.

521
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 5: It was total bs. They terrified this one.

522
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: They threatened to take her kids away, right to take

523
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: your kids away, which is also standard operating procedure, unfortunately

524
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: and police departments too often around the country.

525
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: In pre trial proceedings, Leonard's attorney tried to admit Myrtle

526
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: Poor Bear as their witness, where she would testify as

527
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: to how she was treated and forced to lie. However,

528
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: the judge barred her from testifying and he cited mental incompetence.

529
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: They got a different judge, a notoriously racist judge as

530
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: we understand it, a guy named Paul Benson.

531
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 4: They moved a child from Saya Rapids up to Fargo,

532
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 4: North Dakota.

533
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: There was an all white jury.

534
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 4: I mean the program that set up was a program

535
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 4: meant to convict Leonard.

536
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: And with the new narrative that this was a cold

537
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 1: blooded execution of two incapacitated FBI agents, self defense was

538
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: off the table and the judge would not allow any

539
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: testimony about the climate of violence and fear that led

540
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: up to June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five.

541
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: The judge would not let them make the statement. The

542
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 3: judge d a statement that Leonard Peltiers is on trial here,

543
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: not FBI, and that was a begin the type of

544
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 3: trial I was going to receive.

545
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: And that's where we'll pause for the second of three

546
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: episodes of the wrongful conviction of Leonard Peltier and stick

547
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: around because there's still so much more to come.

548
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: First, opportunity I got, I was able to escape.

549
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 7: Kunstler learned of this teletype from Agent Hodge, which had

550
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 7: been suppressed.

551
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 6: That damaged AR fifteen could produce a firing pentest.

552
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: I don't know who pulled a trigger.

553
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 6: Then how could the judge deny him the same defense

554
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 6: that Butler and Robberty.

555
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 7: You have nothing that any of the dozens of lawyers

556
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 7: did accomplished a single damned thing for Leonard.

557
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: You had on your side, Hope Francis, Archbishop to to Mother,

558
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: Teresa Nelson, Mandela Muhammad Ali, the Dali Lama Correta, Scott

559
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: King out rage against the machine, Tom Morello, Johnny Depp.

560
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 3: Regional director of the FBI. Don Edwards is the supporter

561
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,719
Speaker 3: of mine. He said, I worked there. I know what

562
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: they did to Leonard.

563
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 6: Clinton was told that South Dakota senator would lose the selection.

564
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 5: If he pardoned Peltier. My anger kept me alive.

565
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: I just made my mind up. You ain't going to

566
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 3: break me.

567
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 7: Most of us never thought we would see the day

568
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 7: that Leonard would walk out of prison alive.

569
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: The guard there said, ma'am, I've told you there's no

570
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: visitation today.

571
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 4: And I said, the President has just granted clemency to

572
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 4: Leonard Peltier, and so I'm wondering if you could let

573
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 4: him know.

574
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: It is just about Leonard Peltier. It's about the struggle.

575
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 3: It's about what they'd tried to do to us natives.

576
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 3: They tried to exterminate us.

577
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: Be sure to tune in for the final episode of

578
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: The Wrongful Conviction of Leonard Peltier. Thank you for listening

579
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all

580
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ad

581
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

582
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: I want to thank our production team, Connor Hall and

583
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler,

584
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Kleiber. The music in this production

585
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

586
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms

587
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can

588
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: also follow me on Instagram at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful

589
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and

590
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number One. We have worked hard

591
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate.

592
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in

593
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect

594
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: those of Lava for Good