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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I welcome to stuff.

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Speaker 1: I've never told your production of I Heart Radios how

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Speaker 1: stuff work. So this is a fun one. Yes, this

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Speaker 1: was an interview we got to do while we were

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Speaker 1: out in l A. It was the first time we

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Speaker 1: visited the l A studios. It was really nice. It

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Speaker 1: was you got to bond with the dogey. It took

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Speaker 1: a long time. I stepped on her. She was mad

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Speaker 1: at me, and I had to gain her trust by

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Speaker 1: pretending like I didn't want her to pet. It was

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Speaker 1: a whole thing. It was. I got to see it

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Speaker 1: all play. This was on Valentine's Day. It almost it

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Speaker 1: broke my heart. Samantha literally before we walked in, had

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Speaker 1: said she needed to find dog to pet because we

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Speaker 1: were in We were in l A for several days,

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Speaker 1: so you were away from Peaches and you were feeling

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Speaker 1: the and I needed I needed a touch of a

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Speaker 1: dog and you did. Yeah, alms, I said it. I

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Speaker 1: want to leave it at that. Um. Yeah. So our

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Speaker 1: friends over in the l A studio has an office dog.

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Speaker 1: Sophie has her dog there, Anderson Andy, who is an adorable,

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Speaker 1: adorable little dog. Also, the name Confusion was there was

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Speaker 1: there was us Andy and Andie. Was a little confusioning,

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Speaker 1: but yes, we got to sit in and take a

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Speaker 1: tour of their beautiful with two very nice showers in

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Speaker 1: their office. By the yes that I was like a

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Speaker 1: day they got a waterfall shower, y'all. Yes, it was

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Speaker 1: intense as well as a nice little balcony. It's not

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Speaker 1: a little nice balcony. It was pretty decent. Was Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was nice as well as the fact that we

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Speaker 1: got to hang with our sister of our network, Samara Bay.

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Speaker 1: She is starting her podcast with us called Permission to Speak,

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Speaker 1: which is very exciting. She's doing some amazing things. She

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Speaker 1: is a dialect coach, yeah yeah, and she's worked on

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Speaker 1: like Avengers, End Game, Wonder Woman eighty four, all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things, and now she is also working with women

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Speaker 1: running profits. As we've spoken about on the show, there

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Speaker 1: was no shortage of critiques around women's voices, right, and

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Speaker 1: is really interesting what she's doing in her podcast, which

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Speaker 1: as you as you listen to this, I believe will

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Speaker 1: have dropped for a medium that is about speaking and listening, right,

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Speaker 1: there really isn't that much out there on that topic,

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Speaker 1: especially for women, other than being told you're annoying, right,

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Speaker 1: And you know, honestly, I I didn't think this was

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Speaker 1: gonna happen, but I did have like a tiny little

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Speaker 1: fear in the back of my brain that we were

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Speaker 1: going to get there and she was going to be like,

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Speaker 1: so I listened to your show, here are But I

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Speaker 1: definitely had the moment of like, she's going to be like,

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Speaker 1: these are the reasons why people think you're annoying, and

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Speaker 1: these are the things that you need to work. Gone. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And she absolutely was a dulight um actually really reaffirming

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Speaker 1: about just finding the things about you that are authentic

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Speaker 1: about you and not picking apart but building up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she helped us before our panel. Yeah, we had a panel.

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Speaker 1: I was still kind of messed it up a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but we did. The last thing she said to us

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Speaker 1: was don't apologize. The first thing I did was apologizing that.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't think I'm

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Speaker 1: wearing Oh no, yeah, but it went okay, I did.

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Speaker 1: It takes a while to learn that it wasn't It

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Speaker 1: was the way you suppoke that you were apologizing, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily apologizing, right, right. Yeah, A gradation of apologies, especially

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Speaker 1: for women which is what she speaks about. It's like,

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Speaker 1: just because you didn't say you're sorry, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you're not apologizing. So a great another piece of advice, right,

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Speaker 1: and the panel we were speaking on was about getting

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Speaker 1: angry and for women, what does that look like? And

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Speaker 1: whine do you? A lot of us, including me, struggle

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Speaker 1: with it, And it was great because she also gave

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Speaker 1: me this wonderful piece of understanding of clarity that I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen a lot of healthy examples of angry women

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Speaker 1: in my life, modeled in like my specific life, especially

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Speaker 1: when I was younger, and just normalizing that and seeing

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Speaker 1: more and more of that because then I don't know

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Speaker 1: how to express it very well. I go from zero

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Speaker 1: to fifty um, and that's because I don't there's no

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Speaker 1: examples for me. So that was not Another wonderful thing

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Speaker 1: I got in that conversation, as well as podcast voice,

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Speaker 1: which is something that I struggled with before I, before

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Speaker 1: I started, and when I first started, where I thought

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Speaker 1: I had to sound a certain way that would be

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Speaker 1: the most likable version of me. But everybody hated that version,

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Speaker 1: right because they could tell I wasn't being me and

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Speaker 1: they did not like that which, as we know with women,

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Speaker 1: if you're not authentic, get out, and even if you are,

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Speaker 1: some time to get but it is changing. Um. And

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Speaker 1: this was a really great conversation that we got to

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Speaker 1: have with Samara, and we're very excited to share it

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Speaker 1: with you. So I guess we'll let pass us and

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Speaker 1: pass Samara take it away. We have with us a

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Speaker 1: very very special friend, Samara. Can you introduce yourself for us?

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Speaker 1: My name is Samara B. I am based in l

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Speaker 1: A and I am a dialect coach for TV and

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Speaker 1: film and also sort of a speech and communication coach

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Speaker 1: for politicians, for entrepreneurs, for anybody. I like to say,

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Speaker 1: for anybody who's interested in using their voice to get

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Speaker 1: what they want. How long have you been doing this work?

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Speaker 1: I got an m f A Masters in Acting in

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Speaker 1: oh six, and I was like dead set on being

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Speaker 1: a Shakespearean actress, like regionally not even like I wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe like New York Shakespeare the Park would

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Speaker 1: have been great, but I was like, I'm gonna make

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Speaker 1: no money and make art and like never have a

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Speaker 1: family and never. I was like I really like Roman

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Speaker 1: to size the nomadic existence, um, And like honestly you know,

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Speaker 1: to all the nerds out there listening, Like having a

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Speaker 1: Shakespeare background has had a massive impact on everything else

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Speaker 1: I've done with my life. But starting in O six,

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Speaker 1: when I got out and I moved to New York

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Speaker 1: and was trying to, you know, make the acting thing happen,

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Speaker 1: I had already kind of picked up some mentors in

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Speaker 1: this dialect world. It's a pretty small world. There's like

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Speaker 1: twenty of us total on both coasts. A few there's

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Speaker 1: somebody in Atlanta, there's somebody in Chicago, but for the

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Speaker 1: most part, that's it. It's like less than two dozen.

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Speaker 1: And um, a lot of us actually have the same

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Speaker 1: agent who represents us for TV and film stuff, so like,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's sort of how the work happens. And

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Speaker 1: there was obviously a process over many years, both in

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Speaker 1: New York and here of me being like that's a

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Speaker 1: cool side hustle, but like I'm an actress there, And

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Speaker 1: then over time I was like, wow, I have a

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Speaker 1: lot more fun actually doing this and you know, supporting

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Speaker 1: actors and kind of allowing myself to be kind of

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Speaker 1: an anthropologist sociologist, like just thinking about the ways humans

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Speaker 1: communicate rather than you know, endlessly trying to fit some

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Speaker 1: type that I was never going to fit. It was

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Speaker 1: like a a many year progression. But really I've been

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Speaker 1: dialect coaching now for like almost fifteen years. Wow, and

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Speaker 1: how do you get into something like that? I was

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Speaker 1: reading some of the dialects that you you've coached before, like,

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Speaker 1: how do you even do that? I mean, it is

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Speaker 1: a bit nerdy. It's quite fun because when you're actually

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Speaker 1: coaching somebody, it's very visceral and you're in the space

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Speaker 1: with another artsy person and it's feel silly and embodied

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Speaker 1: and kind of just creative. But there is an initial

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Speaker 1: step which is not uncreative, but it is a little

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Speaker 1: header where like, if I'm being what I'm working on

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Speaker 1: right now is a nineteen fifties North Carolina African American

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Speaker 1: vernacular for a couple who are like farmhouse but aspirational educated.

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Speaker 1: That is a specific story quote unquote we are telling

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Speaker 1: with that accent. And then for me, it's like I

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Speaker 1: can either just like do a search on YouTube for

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Speaker 1: like North Carolina the end, or I can really try

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Speaker 1: to find somebody, hopefully even somebody from an earlier era.

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Speaker 1: There's like, you know, all kinds of YouTube is kind

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Speaker 1: of a time capsule, if you think of it that way.

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Speaker 1: And I found this one guy who really fits the

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Speaker 1: bill and is now in his like eighties or whatever nineties,

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Speaker 1: but would have been the right age at the time.

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Speaker 1: And he did this speech that of course made it

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Speaker 1: onto YouTube because the Internet, and it's beautiful. He's from

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Speaker 1: the right place, he has the right spirit of the character.

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Speaker 1: And um, I break down the sounds using the International

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Speaker 1: Phonetic alphabet. I know, by the way, that's called I

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Speaker 1: P A and it is not the same as the beer,

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Speaker 1: but the International Phonetic alphabet very simply is a symbol

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Speaker 1: for every sound. So instead of the letters, which if

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Speaker 1: you have the letter A in a word you don't

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Speaker 1: know it literally can be app like apple, aw, like father, all,

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Speaker 1: like a w on, how cute A or like about.

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Speaker 1: So it's five sounds with the letter A. And now

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Speaker 1: in international finitic alplem that we have five different symbols, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way up top, when people take linguistics classes

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Speaker 1: or take speech classes, that's a hard thing to learn,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're an artsy type. You're like that looks

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Speaker 1: like mass. It's a lot of literally Greek symbols and

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Speaker 1: things like that. But the initial I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: I always say that because if anybody here has ever

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Speaker 1: like experience that the initial hurdle sucks. But on the

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Speaker 1: other side of it, it's like a secret code to

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Speaker 1: decode everybody's accent and it works. Do you see that

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Speaker 1: when you talk to people, are you're trying to get

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Speaker 1: like as you're talking, You're like, I mean, I'm I

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Speaker 1: would like to think I'm kind of kinder than that,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, what I've discovered about how my brain

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Speaker 1: works is I can kind of either focus on content

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Speaker 1: or focus on sounds. So if I'm actually a woral

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Speaker 1: conversation with people, i am not just being It's like,

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Speaker 1: it's like I can tell you're a sound is a

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Speaker 1: little flat. Somebody says, like, what you know, like diagnose me,

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Speaker 1: I'll start to listen a little bit closer to that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got nervous. I was like, oh, Annie, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to we're but I'm gonna but I'm gonna make

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Speaker 1: it real here because part of the deal with my

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Speaker 1: version of doing this, and there is sometimes older guard

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Speaker 1: who doesn't treat this the same way because this is

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Speaker 1: how generations work. But for me, who's in my thirties,

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Speaker 1: who is you know, well aware of like intersectionality. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think it's part of my job to a not

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Speaker 1: judge accents at all. Every every single person sounds different

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Speaker 1: from every single other person in the entire world. So

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Speaker 1: like we should revel in the ways in which our

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Speaker 1: life has influenced our sound. It's like a thing I

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Speaker 1: should just like a street it out, but I believe it,

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Speaker 1: and you know, and so relatedly, what I want is

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Speaker 1: for people to feel as free as possible with the

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Speaker 1: way they communicate. And actually, what I think is like

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Speaker 1: the way that we hear powerful people talk should just change.

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Speaker 1: It's not that we should change, you know. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not here being like, oh my god, you guys are

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Speaker 1: not sounding standard American. Standard American is a made up accent,

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Speaker 1: by the way, Okay, now I'm switching in the standard American.

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Speaker 1: This is a made up accent that exists where it's

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Speaker 1: the most clear, open energized version of every vowel and

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Speaker 1: consonant sound. It's beautiful and also does not sound like

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Speaker 1: a human, you know. It sounds robotic. Yeah, And and

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Speaker 1: I can tell it like all of this sort of

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Speaker 1: like color and dynamics in my own voice suddenly starts

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Speaker 1: to go away and I sound really neutral, and like, okay, great,

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Speaker 1: what do you do with the neutral person? You know, well,

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Speaker 1: that's what it seems that they want women to be,

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Speaker 1: is just neutral. Well yeah, who's day, though. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've gotta exactly we've got to take charge of what

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Speaker 1: those assumptions are, right, and also honestly be better listeners

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Speaker 1: of other women right ourselves. Right? And you you did

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Speaker 1: start talking about intersectionality when it comes to how you

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Speaker 1: hear things and when you could if you critique. You

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Speaker 1: didn't say that word, but I'm assuming part of what

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Speaker 1: you have to do is critique and just kind of

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Speaker 1: break down what may be happening with a conversation even

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Speaker 1: and going as far as okay, let's say I'm asking

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Speaker 1: you please don't though, critique me and give me a

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Speaker 1: feedback on what this is. How does that look like

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the fact that I am a

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Speaker 1: a woman of color, being English is not my first language,

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Speaker 1: see I am Southern? What does that look like for

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Speaker 1: you in consideration in coaching, especially if it's not for acting,

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Speaker 1: but it's really for sort of quote unquote real life um,

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Speaker 1: it is not at all about the things you're doing

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Speaker 1: that deviate quote unquote from standard American quote unquote a

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Speaker 1: made up fact that we just talked about, right, It

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Speaker 1: is not about that at all. It is about the

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Speaker 1: ways that I can tell that you, the generic you,

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Speaker 1: one person who would be sitting obviously, the ways that

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Speaker 1: I can tell that you are uh not allowing yourself

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Speaker 1: to freely be you. I mean that suddenly sounded very seventies,

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Speaker 1: but you know, like the ways that we get in

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Speaker 1: our own way because we feel like there's only one

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Speaker 1: way to sound powerful or authoritative because of all kinds

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Speaker 1: of societal stuff. I mean, it has It's not like

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Speaker 1: what part of my interest in this podcast and in

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Speaker 1: talking more about this stuff is that this is not

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Speaker 1: about like each one of us, in our siloed little

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Speaker 1: personal you know, in our brains, has to be fighting

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Speaker 1: this alone being like God when when people take me seriously,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't sound like the other people.

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Speaker 1: What are you know? What we should be able to

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Speaker 1: do and what I want to make sure that conversation

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Speaker 1: happens around is like we're all thinking that almost swore

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Speaker 1: because I feel very strongly about we all we all

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Speaker 1: feel this way. I mean, whether it's actual impostor syndrome

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Speaker 1: or just I don't feel like I belong because fill

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Speaker 1: in the blank reason I'm People have told me I'm

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Speaker 1: too big my whole life. People told me I'm too

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Speaker 1: small my whole life. People have told me I'm too loud,

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Speaker 1: to quiet, to millennial, to grown up to you know,

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Speaker 1: Like it's so much stuff that we've you know, picked

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Speaker 1: up the cues on our whole life and navigated, and

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Speaker 1: like go us for navigating um, like you know, the

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Speaker 1: things that society has told us to do to fit in.

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Speaker 1: But like when we want to stand out, when we

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Speaker 1: want to be on a stage and you know, give

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Speaker 1: a presentation in a voice that is both ours and

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Speaker 1: also like the I don't know, almost powerful version of us,

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Speaker 1: we do have to sort of face the ways that

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Speaker 1: we've maybe minimized ourselves. And so what I'm really doing

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Speaker 1: with people is calling out that stuff in a way

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Speaker 1: that's like loving enough that they can actually grow, not

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Speaker 1: not like obviously in a way that's like you're doing

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Speaker 1: it badly, so now do better, which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: doesn't work and I have a four year old also

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Speaker 1: doesn't work with exactly, But that is the thing like

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Speaker 1: massaging like good good good, like empowered versions of people

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Speaker 1: out of themselves is sort of the secret sauce. Right. Well,

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Speaker 1: it is really interesting how we have such anxieties around

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Speaker 1: our voices, especially women, and as you were saying earlier,

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Speaker 1: it's a huge anxiety when we have to listen to

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Speaker 1: our own and I know so many people who can't

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Speaker 1: stand it, like will not do it. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of listeners have written into as and said, how did

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Speaker 1: you find your voice? How did you get comfortable doing

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Speaker 1: what you do? And a lot of times I have

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Speaker 1: to say I never really did, but I just learned

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Speaker 1: that it's you. You're the thing that is making the

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Speaker 1: special whatever podcast. You're the thing. Um. And and sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's hard to accept. In some days it's easier to

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Speaker 1: do um. But what would you do? You have any

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Speaker 1: advice for finding that acceptance in yourself? Um? I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of different approaches, and it really it

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Speaker 1: is largely based on each individual person's Like what if

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Speaker 1: you if you listening are already thinking like what do

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Speaker 1: you do when you're having a bad day to make

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Speaker 1: yourself feel better? It's probably the same answer for how

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Speaker 1: to trust your voice more, you know, whether it's yoga

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Speaker 1: or meditation, or dancing to you know, your favorite song

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Speaker 1: or hanging out with friends. But my um my sort

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Speaker 1: of dream is that the version of ourselves that we

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Speaker 1: are the most comfortable with and love the most in

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Speaker 1: private context when we're surrounded by people that get us,

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Speaker 1: is the version that we can scale up into our

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Speaker 1: public spheres. And what that scaling up process looks like

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Speaker 1: is something. It's not nothing we don't I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that our private self is exactly appropriate for every public

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Speaker 1: you know, scenario, but it's probably more close than we

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Speaker 1: kind of tend to think. There's a sense of like

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Speaker 1: formality that we I'm kind of obsessed with this idea

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Speaker 1: that we all kind of think the world is more

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Speaker 1: formal than it really is, and that the most powerful

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Speaker 1: people can afford to be less formal. So what is

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Speaker 1: that to kind of play in that land of like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just me, I'm conversational, and now I'm going to

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Speaker 1: talk in front of four people instead of four, and

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Speaker 1: what is that I might have to be a little louder,

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Speaker 1: I might have to energetically like reach the back of

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Speaker 1: the room regardless of a five a mic or not,

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Speaker 1: but just sort of like energy wise heartwell, you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of like care bear stair wise, but like I'd

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Speaker 1: like to think that in almost every profession, and this

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Speaker 1: does range and I'm not you know, one size fits

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Speaker 1: alling it here because you know, corporate and legal are

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Speaker 1: different than whatever tech, like everything is different. Um but uh,

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Speaker 1: but I am kind of obsessed with this idea that, um,

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Speaker 1: we can bring our conversational storytelling real selves into public

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Speaker 1: in ways that we don't always trust. We have some

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Speaker 1: more of our conversation with tomorrow, but first we have

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Speaker 1: a quick break for world worse answer and we're back.

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Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. Obviously you have a goal, you have

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Speaker 1: a mission, and with your mission, we know you're coming

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Speaker 1: with a podcast in our network. Come big vocal hug. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're so glad you're part of it. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: to us a little bit about what your show is

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Speaker 1: based on what your show is about? Yeah, I'll actually

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll give you the origin story. So I went

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Speaker 1: to Princeton undergrad. Um, I know very but actually what

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Speaker 1: felt the fanciest was that a year and a half ago, UM,

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Speaker 1: I got a call from uh, some Princeton alumni person

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Speaker 1: saying that they were doing a women's conference back on

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Speaker 1: campus for like three thousand women and Justice Soda mayor

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Speaker 1: and just this Kegan We're going to speak at it

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Speaker 1: because they're both a lumps and would I be interested

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Speaker 1: in doing a Here's how it was pitched to me,

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Speaker 1: a fifty person workshop on the voice as like a

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Speaker 1: little breakout something something, And I was like, for not,

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Speaker 1: this is like non actors, non creatives, whatever, just whoever

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Speaker 1: shows up. And they were like exactly, And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what that would look like, but absolutely

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Speaker 1: I can figure that out. And I have to admit

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Speaker 1: that I was. When I got the call. I was

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. For a month coaching Wonder Woman

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Speaker 1: the new one is that hasn't come out yet, and

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Speaker 1: I'm in coaching gal and I was feeling like, you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty the word that I'm gonna say, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: how do I say that without swearing? I was feeling

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Speaker 1: pretty good about myself, and so I called it how

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Speaker 1: do you use your voice to get what you want?

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Speaker 1: And I just started working with women running for office

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Speaker 1: and was sort of interested in what that is to

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Speaker 1: translate what I do in one industry into kind of

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Speaker 1: all industries and kind of the patterns that I had

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Speaker 1: noticed across industries from basically women who are more similar

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Speaker 1: than we think, you know. So a week before I

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Speaker 1: flew out for that, I got like automated email that

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Speaker 1: I think went out to all the people who are

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Speaker 1: presenting at that conference that just said how many people

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Speaker 1: have signed up for four hundred and sixty people day?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, so my fifty person workshop

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Speaker 1: just got like a whole different, you know. And what

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Speaker 1: I learned from that, first of all that I needed

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Speaker 1: to actually figure out I was gonna do, But second

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Speaker 1: of all that um, you know, if that was like

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Speaker 1: a market research on how people feel about needing to

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Speaker 1: use their voice to get what they want, like it

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Speaker 1: turns out a lot of people need that. And I

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Speaker 1: really was able to make my my hour fifteen that

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Speaker 1: I had up on that stage be partly me kind

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Speaker 1: of setting up what I the patterns I have noticed

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Speaker 1: and what I what I think is true, but also

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Speaker 1: the whole second half really was like a group discussion.

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Speaker 1: I made sure there were microphones in the audience and

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Speaker 1: I asked people like what made you show up? And

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Speaker 1: there were so you know, there were twenty two year

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Speaker 1: old up to seventy year olds and it was exclusively

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Speaker 1: women in that room, and the stories that came out

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Speaker 1: were exactly what you'd imagine. You know. There was a

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Speaker 1: twenty two year old who had just started a podcast

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Speaker 1: and was getting trolled for her voice not sounding like

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Speaker 1: listeners think it's supposed to sound like, you know, UM.

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Speaker 1: And then there was a middle aged woman who was

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Speaker 1: talking about her teenage daughter who was doing up speak

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Speaker 1: and she was like, you know, deathly afraid that her

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Speaker 1: daughter was gonna like quote unquote not be taken seriously,

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Speaker 1: which I feel like it's like a you know, like

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Speaker 1: a thing for all of us. UM. And then there's

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Speaker 1: this older woman who stood up in the back of

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Speaker 1: the room and she said, I'm the only female board

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Speaker 1: member of filling the blank massive financial institution, and I

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Speaker 1: can't get a word in edgewise. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: does anyone else here out of you know, the four

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Speaker 1: hundred whatever people UM incorporate and can speak to anything

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Speaker 1: that works? And people started to stand up and basically say,

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Speaker 1: here's something that worked for me. And I thought that

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Speaker 1: at is the magic of what just happened, Like it

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Speaker 1: wasn't me. I got like such lovely feedback afterwards when

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Speaker 1: people were like, he should do a TED talk, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, thank you, But actually, I mean if

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Speaker 1: you're if you're if you're Ted and you're asking me,

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Speaker 1: I'll show up. But now, I mean I really was

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Speaker 1: like the magic of what happened was that women across industries,

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Speaker 1: across ages were sharing best practices on what worked for them,

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Speaker 1: and like I sort of was like, I don't think

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Speaker 1: this exists. Yeah. Period. So it was really quite shortly

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Speaker 1: after that that I started pitching this podcast idea because

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Speaker 1: I mean, the in between the thing that happened is

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Speaker 1: that Paul Sheer, who's like a podcasting genius and and

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Speaker 1: has like four of them, asked me to be on

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Speaker 1: one of them. This is so ridiculous, but he asked

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Speaker 1: me to be on a podcast um where he was

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Speaker 1: doing like a f I Top one movies of all time,

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Speaker 1: one episode per movie, and they were breaking up the

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Speaker 1: episodes with like a quote unquote expert in the middle

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Speaker 1: to talk about something related to the movie. And the

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Speaker 1: movie for me was Sophie's choice, a real upper and

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Speaker 1: also definitely from made when I was like two. But

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Speaker 1: but you know, he wanted to talk about dialect, like

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Speaker 1: what Meryl was doing and how you tell stories with dialect.

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Speaker 1: And I've actually coached Paul, so it was fun to

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Speaker 1: be like, you know, I literally walked out of that

430
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: podcast studio and I called my mom and I was like, oh, man,

431
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 1: podcast is like my medium. And she was like, that's

432
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: what you do with what you learned from the conference.

433
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,959
Speaker 1: I love that, and so I kind of you know,

434
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: So the end of the story is that the podcast

435
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: is called Permission to Speak, and it is going to

436
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: be an interview every week with I sort of I

437
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: think of it as sort of two generally two categories.

438
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: Either people who are experts on the voice, like there

439
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: are social scientists and linguists and speech coaches who coach

440
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton who coach you know, corporate people who are

441
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: like sitting on massive amounts of tips and can come

442
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: on and really, you know, sort of throw best ideas

443
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: into the pot. And then the other massive category is

444
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: people who are who not call themselves quote unqute voice experts,

445
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,479
Speaker 1: who are just like living life in some industry where

446
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: either because of a leadership position or because of some bravery,

447
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: they have a perspective they can share. And I'm sort

448
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: of excited to bring some people who we think of

449
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: in the public eye but we don't necessarily associate with

450
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: the voice, bring them in and get to kind of

451
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: talk to them about the stuff that they haven't necessarily

452
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 1: talked about in other interviews. That is about sort of

453
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: were public persona. How do we build our public persona

454
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: in a way that feels authentic. I'm so excited. I'll

455
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm going to be subscribing immediately. It's just

456
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: me being like, this is a thing but I'm gonna

457
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: want to do in the world. But yeah, I think

458
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: you're correct. I haven't heard many things that it's geared

459
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: to how to use your voice, how to speak, how

460
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 1: to find your voice, and also here's some tips for

461
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: just in case you are a little nervous or trying

462
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: something new. I think this fantastic completely, it really is thinking.

463
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: It really is like the super literal version of the

464
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: voice in terms of like we can all think about

465
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: how up speaking, vocal fry, and these these things we

466
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: might have been told at some point mumbling whatever um

467
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: are getting in our way, if they are results of

468
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 1: the patriarch, I mean, the results of like you know,

469
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: play smaller, please, we'd like you better smaller, which sometimes,

470
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: by the way, works in our twenties and doesn't work

471
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: the older we get. And then it's like, oh, that's

472
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: interesting my old tricks that helped me quote unquote get

473
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: what I want when I was younger and cuter in

474
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: that you know, a way where society is like, ah,

475
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: aren't serving me anymore? And what that transition is. I

476
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: think all of us know that moment, whether it's like

477
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: a big thought about our life or just a little

478
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: thought in some conversation where it's like, oh, that way

479
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: that I undermine myself, Um, it helped me back then,

480
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: not helping me right now. And so there is this

481
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: thing where it's like the literal side of how we

482
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: use our voice and warm ups and whatever kind of

483
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: you know, I had a voice her in to talk

484
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: about like literally she does like surgery on people's vocal cords.

485
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: Like that's okay, we're going literal on the past. And

486
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: then there's also just the massive, much more metaphorical thing

487
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: of like how do we decide what we care about

488
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: and how do we talk about it like we care

489
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: about it? Because sounding like we care in our voice, um,

490
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: is something we have not most of us have been

491
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: conditioned away from right right and speaking of all of

492
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: those ideas, when you when you think of vocal fry,

493
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: when we think of speaking, it's definitely very very gendered.

494
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: Can you give us a social what you think is

495
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: the reasoning? Obviously patriarchal. It almost feels like, I feel

496
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: like patriarch what is your theory or not even theory,

497
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: but what are your thoughts on all of that? And

498
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: why is it so gendered? And why is it used

499
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: even more and more now as if it's almost like

500
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: a new trend to say she has vocal fry. Well,

501
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: by the way, it's so not new, like when I've

502
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: done some research on it, it's like now it's like

503
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: our entire you know, semi adult life, like I want

504
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: to say, for the last fifteen or twenty years. You

505
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:12,479
Speaker 1: can google vocal fry and find think pieces about how

506
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: women are undermining those. One of my favorite things is

507
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: I saw in an article um about such things that

508
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: a woman who was writing a really searing piece about

509
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: like how vocal fry is so gendered as you say,

510
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: found an amazing video put out by Duke's Business School

511
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 1: with a dude in the middle of the camera talking

512
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: about how research has been done the vocal fry undermines

513
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: women's job prospects when they go through like an interview process.

514
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: That guy ends almost all of his sentences with vocal fry,

515
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: of course. And what's fascinating is that, you know, like

516
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: the in this video that is sort of about shaming

517
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: vocal for I that was produced by multiple people no

518
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: one thought to even notice. And that's you know, that's

519
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: the thing, because there's a thing that linguists say, uh

520
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: that like sort of throughout time, at least in Western culture,

521
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: here's how language evolves. We've all noticed, like now we've

522
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: all been alive enough to be like, oh, we we

523
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: used to say that word that way and now we

524
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: say it this way, or that word is now out

525
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: of fashion, or there's a new word in English because internet,

526
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: you know whatever. And the the sort of general linguistic

527
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: like wisdom around that is that the most creative groups

528
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: of people when it comes to sort of changing up

529
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: the way we pronounce things, with the way we make

530
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: verb tenses happen or whatever, is often the people on

531
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: the most margins, often African American communities, gay communities, and

532
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: then it gets mainstream ified quote unquote by young white women,

533
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: and then it becomes mainstream because their parents start doing

534
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: it or whatever, and now and now it's become a

535
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: societal thing. So obviously there's a lot of like you know,

536
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: button social justice stuff and what I just said, But

537
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: the main thing is that, the main reason I bring

538
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: it up is that the way that young women communicate

539
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: is ultimately what pushes language, what evolves language. So yeah,

540
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: we can totally say, like you're that up speaking, that

541
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: vocal fry is like that really you know, embarrassing thing

542
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: girls do, or you can say it exists everywhere now

543
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: everyone is doing it in certain contexts, and you know,

544
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: sure we can totally point fingers at young girls because

545
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: what an easy target, low hanging fruit. Um. And and

546
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: then we can also say, because this is partly my

547
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,959
Speaker 1: job is, then we can also say, as those younger

548
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: women become older, we can take some inventory on ourselves.

549
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: I think we do not have to be in a

550
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: black and white world where it's either all vocal fry

551
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: all the time or not. We can say that is

552
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: a socialized thing we've picked up to make us seem

553
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: smaller than we are vocally because if we have if

554
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: we end with vocal fright, it's like I care about

555
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: this thing a lot, but like or whatever you know,

556
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: which is like serves a purpose, which is like I'm

557
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: trial ballooning this thing, but like I don't care that much,

558
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: Like I don't know whatever do you guys care? Because

559
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: if not, we could drop it. You know, it's useful. Um.

560
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: And then we can also be the same person who

561
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: gets a little older or for whatever reason, faces a

562
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: potential power position and can take inventory of the things

563
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: that we did but don't necessarily have to do. Yeah. Um,

564
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: And I guess kind of going off of that, since

565
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: you've recently you've gotten into the world of politics, and um,

566
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: is this a big year? We'll say, and I we've

567
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: done episodes before about how the media critiques women in

568
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: politics versus men, And can you speak to your your

569
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: experiences so far, what you've noticed, um, and how do

570
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: you navigate that? How do you navigate when you see

571
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 1: that Elizze's Warren's speech has been completely dismissed all that,

572
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: and you're like, where did where did she go? I mean,

573
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: I honestly feel like my answer to that question is

574
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: a lot less to do with my professional life and

575
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: more to do with just like my activism friends who

576
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: are super inspiring to me. And then it is literally

577
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: a question of, like if the media is going to

578
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: fall back on old tropes that are not serving us anymore,

579
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: uh than like what can we do to disrupt? Like

580
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: what can we what what viral things can we do

581
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: to you know? But in terms of her actual voice,

582
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I just posted an awesome quote from Washington

583
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: Post piece from a few months ago yesterday and on

584
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: my on my Instagram for the podcast which is at

585
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: Permission to Speak pod. I'm growing my audience there and

586
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: would love you to, George. But it's a quote that

587
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: I loved that I came across when Okay, these these

588
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: two older women spoke at the let's take a moment

589
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: impeachment hearings UM in like November ish, I don't know

590
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: um and one of them was named Marie Ivanovich, and

591
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: she uh did a beautiful job, and no one quite

592
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: knew what to make of her, Like was she being casual?

593
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: Was she being formal? Was she serious? Was she emotional?

594
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: We don't know what to do. And right around that

595
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: same week, some guy who actually I don't think any

596
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: must remember the name of also was on the stand,

597
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: what do you say? Whatever was? It was also part

598
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: of the hearing, and somebuddy in the press had said,

599
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: as soon as he opened his mouth, we trusted him

600
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: because he reminded us of Walter Cronkite, the most trusted

601
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: voice and news or whatever. And what this woman that

602
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: Monica has at the Washington Post had said was, you know,

603
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,719
Speaker 1: when Marie Ivanovitch opens her mouth as a sixty one

604
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: year old, polite, extremely well educated and elevated woman, we

605
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: don't have a reference. We just don't. And it's like,

606
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: you know, Klobachar said in some early debate when she

607
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 1: was like, who's your favorite female president of America? You know,

608
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: it's like, right, we just don't actually have I find,

609
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: even as somebody who's like interested in this and and

610
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,959
Speaker 1: professionally involved, I find it really hard to like even

611
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: hold in my head like who what women through time

612
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: I admire vocally, And I think it's I think it's

613
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: a I think it actually is kind of a patriarchal dissonance.

614
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: So part of what I'm interested in with the podcast,

615
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: but also what you're talking about is each of us

616
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: like getting better at noticing whose voices are really cutting through,

617
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: and if it's a woman, like it doesn't. It's not

618
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: that the voice has to be perfect. We don't even

619
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: know what that is. That's not a thing and it's

620
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: certainly not a thing we expect of men. But is

621
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: that voice sounding like it's connected to a heart and

622
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: to a brain into a person, and you know, whatever

623
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: our definitions of authentic, but that's probably you know, something

624
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: like that, And then can we like try to try

625
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: to admire it rather than judge it? Love that? Yeah,

626
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: I do too. I definitely feel like a lot of

627
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: us go through periods where we're very judgmental of other

628
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: women as women. But then when you start to get

629
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: the breakda too. You you you do mature and you

630
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: realize what you're doing. And I when I hear people

631
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: say things I was researching recently, Um, how radio frequencies

632
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: you have to just be better? God for like lowers

633
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: literally made for men, exactly exactly, but when women sounded

634
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: quote unquote tinny, and it's like or our technology was

635
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: not made for us. Yes, and and just that whole

636
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: idea of we're still getting advice based on that technology

637
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: of how to sound bring up exactly, because I feel

638
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: like there are moments when I'm like, why me, I'm

639
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: not like the most you know, I I don't have

640
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: like eighty billion certifications in the voice. There are people

641
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: who are like link later certified, and you know, there's

642
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of like sort of modalities of

643
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: vocal work and breath work and stuff. But I've always

644
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: been more interested in, like when our voice hits the air,

645
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: the real the real stuff of like what happens when

646
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 1: we've been socialized in one way and then we start

647
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: to become aware of it, and you know, part of

648
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: being this sort of young guard and that is being

649
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: like that's a lot of a hundred years of assumptions

650
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: no one questioned, and here we are being like, oh,

651
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: maybe we should just like we write the rules on

652
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: that because somebody who we don't respect made the rules right.

653
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: And it's like technology has changed, the world has changed.

654
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: But it bothers me when we hear she doesn't sound authentic.

655
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: I don't trust her, But it's because we're also being

656
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: told you have to sound this way to be authoritative. Totally.

657
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: I mean, something I'm really interested in, and that is

658
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: the other side. If I'm being totally honest. Is the

659
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: other side of being like the new guard is that

660
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 1: I'm always going to um like air a little bit

661
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: on the side of like, you know, like burn it

662
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: all down. But there are there are absolutely less safe

663
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: environments to experiment. And so for me to just you know,

664
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: especially I mean, here's an example for black women who

665
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: have been told that they're angry, you know, for me

666
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: to come in and be like there authentic self just

667
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: be like out and like like that is irresponsible. We

668
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: have to take into account what feels authentic for us

669
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: and also what is going to get us the type

670
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: of pushback in a space that is going to not

671
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: get us what we want, and then we have to also,

672
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: as collectively as a society, like change those spaces. And

673
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: that's you know whatever, a three pronged thing. That's a

674
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: that's a thing, and I got but but to say,

675
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: you know, there's this whole thing of me people where

676
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: they are when it comes to like inclusion stuff. I

677
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: want the world to be a place where people can

678
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: be the loudest, best, most, you know, beloved of themselves

679
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: version of themselves in every context. And since that isn't

680
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: the world we're currently in, we we there is a

681
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: navigating that has to happen, right, and you know, part

682
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: of sort of owning our own ways is pushing the

683
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: boundaries a little bit more, a little bit more, a

684
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: little bit more, having sisterhood doing the same thing, and

685
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: then like seeing what boundaries over time can get eroded.

686
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: And this is a conversation about balancing the platform that

687
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: not everyone has the same opportunity, like you were saying,

688
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: that not everyone has that ability to just come up

689
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: and say something and hope yeah. Oh but I love

690
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: what you're saying too, because I've always thought, I mean,

691
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: I think about this as somebody who has a kid

692
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: in um, the entertainment industry, not not in the entertainment

693
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: industry and as a whole, but on set because actually

694
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: it's quite rare to have a you know, he's not

695
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: a toddler anymore. But you know, for while he was

696
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: that's how that's how growing up works, um and uh.

697
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: And for a while I was like, wow, I am

698
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: the only person on these sets, only woman, I should say,

699
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: on these sets who have who as a kid. And

700
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: there would be women who would be like in the

701
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: hair and makeup trailer who had like sixteen year olds

702
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: who had taken a lot of time off from that

703
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: kind of like twelve hour day work and then got back.

704
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: But my point is that I have I find a

705
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: real I relish those opportunities when I'm in a slightly

706
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: power position to sort of model and normalize. And that's

707
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: the same for anybody in any industry. If you are

708
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: in a power position and you have what I like

709
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: to call a non patriarchal sound of power, you just

710
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: don't sound like those old, you know, grumpy white guys

711
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: that we grew up hearing as as authority use it

712
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: and people who are are inspiring all of us. I mean,

713
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: there's there's all kinds of reasons that Lizzo inspires us,

714
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: but that is one of them. And you know, run

715
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: with run with the platform you have. I love it.

716
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit more about being on

717
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: set as that person and what's that like, because I know,

718
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: I mean it's changing, but a lot of a lot

719
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: of men and you running out in between, like with

720
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: hair and makeup and having that confidence to do it,

721
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 1: and just what's your experience. I mean, I will say

722
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: that my actors um always end up calling me some

723
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: version of like a dialect Ninja, which is quite a

724
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: compliment because, as you can probably tell, my personality is

725
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: pretty big in a space, but on set, I really

726
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: do minimize it. I really am trying to just be

727
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: of use to the production. But yeah, it's uh, not

728
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: the red carpet side of Hollywood, but the production side,

729
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: which i is the word that we all use to mean,

730
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 1: like all those people who show up for twelve hour days,

731
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 1: fourteen hour days and our union and are mostly it's

732
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: like teamsters and a lot of like skilled laborers in

733
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: like who do who are brilliant at holding a microphone

734
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,439
Speaker 1: called a boom over people's heads at just the right

735
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: height that like they pick up the sound but not

736
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 1: the right height that the boom gets in the shot

737
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 1: like that. You know, it's a skill. But by and large,

738
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: and I'm working on a show right now that is

739
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: the show content itself is all about racial tension, and

740
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: yet the crew is almost exclusively white, almost exclusively male,

741
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: and the few of us who aren't like our serious

742
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: solidarity allegiances, and like the allegiance is not just like hey,

743
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: I'm taking care of you, the allegiances. Also, we've had

744
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: quiet conversations about how weird it is when like you're

745
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: in a context like that where the power structure so

746
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: totally obvious and like, so yeah, I mean and the

747
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: and the problem is and I'm not really just like

748
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: painting like white men as the problem in general. I'm

749
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: actually saying specifically that I'm really I've noticed myself surrounded.

750
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: Hope none of them are going to listen to this,

751
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: but I'm kind of just assuming they're not. I've noticed

752
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: a huge amount of like nobody in in these guys

753
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: lives has ever shown them their privilege or or pushed

754
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: them to be better. And there are little ways in

755
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: which I do because I'm like, I mean, I guess

756
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: I have the obligation because I'm here, and I call

757
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: them on stuff, which makes it real fun um but um,

758
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: and I've gotten a lot of like can't take a

759
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: joke's because of God, yeah, funny ones um, but you know,

760
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: it is also just demormalizing. I mean, sometimes I'm not

761
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: up for calling people and stuff. I'm more just like

762
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: listening to people saying things that are depressing and not

763
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: and like micro their micro So it's not like you know,

764
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: fire able offenses, it's just like, wow, you have no

765
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: idea that every woman who you know is directing or

766
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: who's in a power position you don't like for some

767
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: weird reason. It's odd, huh, what could it be? So? Yeah,

768
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: I mean that's the part of Hollywood that doesn't get

769
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: discussed that much because we often are talking about power people,

770
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: and the like sort of slubby white dude archetypes that

771
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: I'm talking about would not consider themselves power people. They

772
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: are only powerful in so much as they are taking

773
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: jobs from people who might be a her influence on

774
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 1: a set. Right, I don't know who the women are

775
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: who do a lot of those jobs because I haven't

776
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: met them, right actually, um any and now we're talking

777
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: about that because I'm that old woman in Atlanta, because

778
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, we have a lot of coming through. Yes,

779
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: I've done some of I've coached some marvel stuff from far,

780
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: but no one has ever flown me. I don't know what.

781
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: I've never been to Atlanta to come on time all

782
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: the good times. But yeah. One of the things that

783
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 1: I had met was a woman who was a part

784
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: of the construction and sets and stuts as she was

785
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: a painter, and I asked her, I was like, wait, so,

786
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: how many women do you work with and we were

787
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: talking about this is because it's just so hard sometimes

788
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: to get out of that trope of the idea of

789
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: misogyny and the patriarch really teaching you about coming together

790
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: support women as opposed to competing with women. So when

791
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: I was talking with her and I asked her how

792
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: many women are a part of this, She's like, I'm

793
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: one of three of this giant, massive crew. But she's like,

794
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: but you know, it's cool as cool they like me.

795
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: I'm not one of those girls type of situations. Like

796
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: kind of just stared at it, and I was trying

797
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: not to make a phase because I was really interested,

798
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: because I was hoping maybe we could make this an episode.

799
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: And then she talked about the fact that the main

800
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 1: crew or the main hot person who hires, never hired

801
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,959
Speaker 1: women until the last two years, and she was so

802
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: proud that she was one of the few women, and

803
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: that kind of chokes you, don't she didn't think of

804
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: that outside of that because she made it in um

805
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: as opposed to I think I also think of men

806
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: who just recognized this is normal, lay normal. I can

807
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: complain about I'm not as good as this, but I'm here,

808
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,959
Speaker 1: so yeah, it makes me think about how like every

809
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: industry has its own like evolution around right. I mean,

810
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: the word parody came to mind. Obviously I'm talking about

811
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: so far from parody, but yeah, um, but you know,

812
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: like because because we think about some of the professions

813
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: like law as being also like super strong in the

814
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: on the man's side in like the seventies, and there

815
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: was like reckonings in that, you know, but now we're

816
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: talking out you know whatever forty years later, fifty years later,

817
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: and and that's it's happening in other industries as though

818
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: it's you know, new, and it is, I guess in

819
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 1: that industry. And so then that I mean, I feel

820
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: like what happened in stuff like law. And I'm mostly

821
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: basing this on my mom's experience having gone to law

822
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: school and been like one of three women out of

823
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: a class of five or something. But you know, is

824
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: that all those stories we hear about the older women

825
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: who sort of like slammed the door shut on the

826
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: next generation coming up, and how that doesn't feel is

827
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: true for our generation And then it sounds like you

828
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: know from your story that like, but in every industry

829
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: they have to go through that phase where the first

830
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: phase is like I made it in screw you right

831
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: in the second phase is like, oh we what if

832
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: we were like a lot of women like how would

833
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: even make like that would make work life better? Right? Right?

834
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: It is? I think it. I think it's really interesting

835
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: to see dynamic shift. And we're talking about what it

836
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 1: looks like to again given even platform, allow someone brings

837
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: someone up with you who have not had the same opportunities,

838
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: same exposures, and what that looks like in our generation

839
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: today we're going to do our presentation about getting angry.

840
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: And when you were talking about there's there's this whole

841
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: idea of yes, let's use anger, but you're correct when

842
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: it comes to the trope of angry black women, that's

843
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: not necessarily a tool. It is more of a weapon

844
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: against them, and it definitely is marked against them. And

845
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: so that conversation of what does it look like when

846
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: we can take all of these different things that we

847
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: see as negatives and or all these different blockages in

848
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: our way, whether it's our again, our voices are the

849
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: way we speak, our accents, even though you know any

850
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: of those things, as well as our feelings, our emotions,

851
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: our daily battles in our career, whatever what not what

852
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: does it look like when we actually can come forward

853
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: and use that as a power tool for us to

854
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: speak on behalf of whatever needs to be spoken about.

855
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: And when we when we're in positions where we feel scared,

856
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: like literally our nervous system is just like I don't

857
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: feel safe. Um, we men, women, everybody turns into the

858
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: most generic version of ourselves. And vocally, what that means

859
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: as we use as little pitch as possible. So so

860
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I like to joke that this is like

861
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: obviously super gender stereotype and if doesn't fit you, I'm thrilled.

862
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: But the sort of massive, you know, parity version of

863
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,439
Speaker 1: it is that in uncomfortable situations, women go to nice

864
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: and men go to cool. And what that means vocally

865
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: is that women go up and stay in a very

866
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: narrow pitch range. So it's like it's I mean, I

867
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: call it our Starbucks voice where it's like, oh my god, no,

868
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: it's totally okay, or you know, I'm so sorry that

869
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: the swim milk is out, you know, I mean, no

870
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: one uses swimuk anymore. Now, it's oat milk all the time.

871
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: Whereas men traditionally will sense an uncomfortable situation where they aren't,

872
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, able to sort of be as revealing and vulnerable,

873
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: and we'll go down and pitch and also have as

874
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: men am more as a pitch range as possible. And

875
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: then it's like, oh no, dude, that's really cool. Yeah,

876
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 1: oh totally yeah, broy know what's up right, And we

877
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: laugh because we this is like so recognizable. I just

878
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: love your accident. But but you know, the point of

879
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 1: it is that the opposite is the opposite, right, So

880
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: when both men and women have more of a sense

881
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: of freedom of going up high when it's like oh

882
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: my god, and then we're going down low when it's

883
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: like but anyway, you know whatever, Like we I don't

884
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: mean like outside of the range of normal. We're not

885
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: talking about like so extreme that we feel like we're clowns.

886
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,439
Speaker 1: But I am saying that all of us have so

887
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: much more vocal range to share the you know, the

888
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: actual thought that we're sharing. Then we sometimes use in

889
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: uncomfortable situations. And part of my work is like sort

890
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 1: of helping people take that leap into acting like they're

891
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: in a more comfortable situation than right they are. An

892
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: anger is totally one of those things that can be

893
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: I mean weaponized was the word I was about to use.

894
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: That's definitely violent, but you know it can be. It

895
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: can be weaponized if it's if we're using it as like,

896
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: not something that shuts us down because we feel shamy

897
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: about it, but rather something that you know, opens us up.

898
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: And often the solution, regardless of what we look like,

899
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 1: is about connecting that anger to a group injustice rather

900
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: than something that I haven't processed yet that's making me mad.

901
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: That's the kind of anger that will almost never serve

902
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: any of us publicly. It's a place we can go through.

903
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: And you know, women I don't know. I mean I

904
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: read Good and Mad by Rebecca tray Star, which is

905
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: amazing book. Um and uh and also um, Rage Becomes

906
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: Her by Siroya Shmale who I'm going to have my um.

907
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I mean obviously like unprocessed anger fine,

908
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: but also god, women are never taught how to be

909
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: angry in a healthy thing. So part of the process,

910
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: whether we're actually weaponizing a quote unquote for a public

911
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: talk or just like having the feelings, is to just

912
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: actually let ourselves like, what is it to have healthy

913
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:18,720
Speaker 1: anchor question mark dot dot doesn't break some dishes to go. Yeah,

914
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: we have a little bit more in this conversation, but

915
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: first we have one more cup break for a word

916
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. There's

917
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: this common thread coming out through all of this is

918
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: that we just need to see more women in doing things.

919
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: O god, it's so true. It's so true. And also

920
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: we need to acknowledge the ones that are doing it

921
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 1: right right, so you know, like I've definitely, I've definitely

922
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: been guilty of saying like, but there's no women in power.

923
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: Then it's like, wait a second, I am just not

924
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: actually taking the second to point out the one, you know.

925
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot we can learn both from

926
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: the older generation women who we don't necessarily see ourselves

927
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: in the Nancy Pelosi's and the Maxine Waters of the world,

928
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,879
Speaker 1: who we can revere but we aren't necessarily like let

929
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: me borrow their tricks because that would feel super artificial

930
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: on me. But then there's also obviously, like you know,

931
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: the lovingly called the squad in Congress, And then there's

932
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: also people in all kinds of other industries, whether it's

933
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: an entertainment or in business, who don't necessarily get like

934
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,280
Speaker 1: as much of a public eye. But obviously part of

935
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: my dream with this podcast as I can you know,

936
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: shine that light. Yeah, and part of actually what I've

937
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: what I'm doing now is that the final chunk of

938
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: all of my episodes, I'm asking my guests to bring

939
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 1: in a woman whose voice they admire. So we listened

940
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: to a little bit and we talk about it in

941
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: a way where we're really pointing out what's working, because

942
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 1: it's just a muscle we need to flex. True. I

943
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, that's awesome, such a great idea. Yeah,

944
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: let's let's take that competition immediately. That's what we do. Worst.

945
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: The first episode I did was called bad Feminist. Oh yeah, yeah,

946
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 1: yeah no, And I love this. I don't know if

947
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: if your listeners know this, but the British podcast called

948
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: Guilty Feminist. Oh my god, so glorious because it's true.

949
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 1: I mean, like, our values are feminist values also hit

950
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: our you know thoughts, and our thoughts are sometimes like

951
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: oh man, I didn't shave my legs and I feel ugly,

952
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, well, how do I square those

953
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: two things? Was battle? It's like when we talk about

954
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: oh no, you look beautiful, naturally be like, oh no,

955
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: I gotta get that foundation a little over here. Yeah. Yeah,

956
00:51:54,680 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: but we're in it together. Yeah we are. So for listeners,

957
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: where can they find you? My podcast Permission to Speak,

958
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: which I've you know, obviously been talking here like aggressively. No,

959
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm just such a nerd. I can't not talk about

960
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: this stuff. UM anyway is uh weekly on Wednesdays, and

961
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: then it's so important to me that um listeners don't

962
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: feel like they're just listeners, but that they're really part

963
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: of the community and that they are you, I should say,

964
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: are really grappling with your own voice in a way

965
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: where you feel like you can be heard. So if

966
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: you want to go to the uh my instagram of

967
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 1: at Permission to Speak pod or a forthcoming website, I'm

968
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: mean to have all kinds of ways to engage because, um,

969
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: I'm here, we're here. Well let's do this together, Yes,

970
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: let's do it. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, this

971
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: is such a wonderful conversation. Thank you very much. I

972
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: love what you're doing. This is a fantastic, fantastic idea.

973
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: Thanks you, guys. We hope that you enjoyed that interview.

974
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: It really is fascinating him any anxieties we have around

975
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: our own voices and around other people's voices, and how

976
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: these structures of power for so long silence people's voices,

977
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: because I do think there's just so many layers of

978
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: our voices that we have denied or we are just

979
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: anxious about. I don't know. So it was fascinating to

980
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: me to hear from her, somebody who specializes in that

981
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: of all of these avenues of voice, of dialect and

982
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 1: accent and picking that apart and then finding the thing

983
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: that is that is you, right, And I think she

984
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: did an amazing job and giving great advice do not

985
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: just us, but too many people who are trying to

986
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: find their voice. Um, and what she's doing and what

987
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: she's talking about, even when it comes to the clinical

988
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: level of voice and speaking. I think it was really

989
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: fascinating to have a better understanding at the background and

990
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: the technology even that may affect what people here are,

991
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: how people hear us as we speak, right. That was

992
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: one of the things I didn't know that our technology

993
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 1: was essentially I should have essentially just made for men,

994
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: and they made women's voices Altenny And anyway, the times

995
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: have changed, but we I one of the things she

996
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: said that I loved the most was we need to

997
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: change the way we think and judge other people's voices

998
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: and specifically women's voices. Right. So go check out her podcast,

999
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: Permission to Speak, and if you would like to email us,

1000
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: you can. Our email is SEF Media mom Stuff at

1001
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com. You can also find us on

1002
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,760
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at stuff

1003
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: I'm Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super

1004
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: producer Andrew Howard and guest superproducer Dan. I don't know

1005
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: your last name, Dan, but you were a delight. You

1006
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: were a delight, and you gave was wonderful food advice

1007
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 1: that we took. We took up. It was very delicious.

1008
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: It was very delicious. Thank you, and thanks to you

1009
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: listeners for listening. Stuff I Never Told You's a production

1010
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: of ir Radios how Stuff Works. For more podcasts from

1011
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: her radio, visit the ihar radio app, Apple podcast, or

1012
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.