WEBVTT - Being intentional, with Chris Bailey 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:11.680 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:17.680 This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.360 episode is going to be a longer one part of 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.079 the series where I interview fascinating people about how they 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.040 take their days from great to awesome and any advice 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.600 they have for the rest of us. So today I 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.000 am delighted to welcome Chris Bailey back to Before Breakfast. 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.720 Chris is a productivity expert and the author of the 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.520 brand new book Intentional How to Finish What You Start. 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:39.880 So Chris, welcome to the show. 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:41.840 Laura, how you doing. 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:43.680 I'm good. I'm glad to have you back. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:45.400 Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:47.879 yourself For anyone who's a new listener and wasn't here 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:48.760 a year and a half ago. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.040 Well, I have a beard, live in Canada, and I 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:56.600 like productivity like some people have normal interests. But I 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:58.920 think people like us, Laura, were just weird in the 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:03.200 way that we try to opt demise the different components 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.120 of our day. And so that's what I'm obsessed by. 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.880 And so it's that curiosity that drives me into writing 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.080 books on the topic, giving talks on the topic. So 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.479 I guess in a nutshell, I'm an author on productivity. 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.399 I've written three books now this is number four them. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.399 I'm so excited to get out into the world. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.120 Yeah, well, what drew you to the topic of finishing? 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:32.080 Oh? Yes, well, it's really the fascination that I have 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:36.679 with becoming more intentional. And so we all know this, right, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.839 The intention is a beautiful idea, But we don't always 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.760 finish what we start. But there are the times that 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.360 we do then, and so what separates the times that 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.120 we do finish what we begin from the times that 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.240 we don't. And so this idea of it, like when 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.920 we finish what we start, there was always an intention 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.000 behind what we're doing. But just because we set an 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.720 intention to do something thing doesn't mean that we'll actually 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.280 follow through with that thing. So is this idea of 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.160 follow through and that idea of intentionality it really like, 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.320 for the last ten years or so, I've really fundamentally 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.800 believed that it's intentionality that lives at the core of productivity. 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.200 But then again, the idea of that is quite beautiful, 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.600 But when the rubber meets the road on a daily basis, 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.480 we have to actually be able to follow through with 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:27.120 those things, and so it was almost the disconnect between 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.240 why do we not always follow through with the intentions 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:35.680 that we set observing that that really got me curious 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:39.800 about the research and what strings we can pull on 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.560 behind the scenes in order to overcome the mental resistance. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.440 We have, the procrastination, we have the fact that some 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:50.680 things feel meaningless, all that good stuff that's in the book. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:52.600 Yeah, well, I was to say, I mean, it seems 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:57.040 like it's probably a mix between sort of these mental factors, 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.440 like how motivated we are by our various intentions, and 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.320 then just the sheer practical matters of time management, the 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.960 sort of things I talk about that people you know, 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.280 believe they're going to have five hours a day to 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.919 do something and they just aren't in their current lives, 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.000 and so yeah, whatever they're going to do, they're not 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.320 going to finish it because they haven't allocated the time 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.120 in their lives to do so. So I'm curious how 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.440 they what are the factors that lead to somebody finishing 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.000 or not finishing on an intention. 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.800 Ooh, I like that you touched on motivation off the 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.200 start of the question, because motivation is something that has 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:40.520 always felt nebulous to me, And values are another tangential 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.840 topic to that that's always felt nebulous to me. When 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.360 I think of defining our values, I think of those 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:51.200 cheesy corporate exercises that I've had to do in the 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.720 working corporate jobs, where some person comes in and says, oh, 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.480 let circle a bunch of words on a page that 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.640 describe who you are. And there's where it's like humor 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.800 and grace and things like that. But there's not really 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.920 any research behind that when you actually dig into that 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.280 kind of stuff, but there is. It turns out on 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:20.360 human values and values. They're essentially the motivational core of 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.559 who we are, and it's this whole, essentially gold mine 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.880 of scientific research on what motivates us on a deep 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:33.520 and fundamental level. So from a broad perspective, there's twelve 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.960 main values. We all share them, but in different amounts. 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.560 So some of us value self direction, going our own way, 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:44.360 with creativity, productivity. I'd imagine a lot of before Breakfast 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:48.520 listeners are in that boat. Others values. Others of us 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.760 value tradition. Some people value power and face and humility 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:59.200 and universalism, which is loving and respecting the nature and 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.640 other people there's benevolence. There's stimulation, which is you know, 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:07.000 the excitement, the novelty that we can experience in the moment. 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.760 There's you know, the list goes up. There's twelve of them, 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.720 and so we all have these in different amounts, and 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:17.320 every task that we have to do is connected to 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.560 one or more of these values. So if you have 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:23.640 to write some boring thing, some handbook project or something 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.480 at work, this is an example I keep coming back 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.200 to because this was I have vivid memories of having 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.160 to write one when I worked at Alcatel lousen To 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.320 telecom company here in Ottawa, and it was so aversive 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.159 because I felt like it was something that I had 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.320 to do. You know, it kind of mapped with the 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.240 value of conformity almost because it was just something that 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.159 I needed to do and not really connect with. I 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.040 didn't really connect with it. But I happen to value 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:53.479 benevolence highly, which is helping and serving other people. And 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.640 so when I reframed it to mentor new employees through 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:00.440 the handbook project, for myself, it was the same task. 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.760 It was just the way that I approached the thing 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:09.120 was far far more motivating. So you're exactly right, that 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.400 there are those multiple levels of motivation and follow through 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.200 that we need to focus on. That's kind of the 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:22.040 broad level of how what does our relationship with the 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.320 things that we have to get done look like? And 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.599 then there's the day to day, which is of course 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.240 fun to chat about too, But I've gone on for 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:33.320 long enough. We'll talk about that thing about. 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.440 You know, how a value might affect how you Behave 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.799 you tell an interesting story in the book of having 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.080 trained for a marathon. I mean not just like half heartedly, 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.880 like having gone through like four hour training runs and 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.520 then elected not to run it, like just you know, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:53.880 and didn't feel like this was a disconnect, like that, 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:55.440 you actually felt like you had done the part you 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:56.080 cared about. 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:57.880 So maybe you could well talk about that. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.640 Yeah, well this story bother you, by the way, I 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:02.240 need to ask. 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.520 Well, I mean not in a particular sense of men, 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.400 you can live your own life, Chris, But yeah, yeah, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:10.720 I mean I've signed up for plenty of races that 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.120 I haven't run. It's usually more than I don't want 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.280 to run in the moment because it's like raining on. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:16.440 That day or something like that. 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.840 Yeah, I mean, I know, if I personally can run 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.160 that amount of you know, I've done it before. Yeah, 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.480 so I guess it doesn't I don't need to show 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:25.440 anyone that I can do it. 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:27.920 Oh, so you're you're kind of like me in this regards. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.200 So one of the values, and I didn't mention it, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.960 even though it's a pretty common value overall, and probably 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.520 especially for listeners of this podcast. I know it's high 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.720 for the value for the readers of my website. One 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:45.200 of the values is achievement, accomplishing things, and so you know, 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.680 and so if you love achieving things, you shouldn't feel 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.400 guilty about that, by the way, you know. So that's 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.080 an important thing, just as if you value tradition and 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.640 you want to live a traditional life or a conformity 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:58.840 and you want to work in that fid whatever it is, 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:03.040 don't feel guilty your values. They're fundamental human things. And 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.080 so there was a story that I shared in the 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.080 book where I was training for a marathon way back when, 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.720 over two decades ago, which really hurts to say it 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:15.280 at this point in my life, Laura, but I essentially 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.960 got to the point where I was running for hours 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.040 on the treadmill in the basement because it was winter 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.960 time at the time, and I just kind of thought, Okay, 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.880 I could run the marathon now, and so I stopped 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:32.160 training entirely. And I know, like, it's so fascinating how 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.240 the way that we look at the world and interpret 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.559 the world is informed through the lens of what we value. 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.640 Because somebody who values achievement, whose highest value is achievement, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.080 they might look at that story and think, what is 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.079 wrong with this guy? Like he was so close. All 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.760 he needed to do was wait until summertime and keep 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.640 up like a just a basic maintenance schedule with his running. 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:00.120 But honestly, my highest value is self direction, going my 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:04.320 own way. And so once I could see that I 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.880 had been you know that it was a meaningful experience 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:09.679 that I could do it. I went my own way 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:11.160 and got to the point where I could have run 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:15.760 the marathon, I was happy. I was filled. Achievement is 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.280 kind of a middling value. It's not super low for me, 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.000 it's not super high for me. It's kind of in 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.160 the middle. I'm not really driven to achieve things for 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:27.400 the sake of having achieved them, And so when I 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:29.760 looked at it, when I think back, I think, oh, 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.040 like that was a really meaningful thing that I did 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.040 training for that marathon, but it wouldn't be meaningful for 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:42.120 somebody else who values something like achievement, which I find 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.720 it just fascinating. So values there are motivational core, but 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.160 they're also the broader, broader principles that we strive for 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.480 in our lives, and so it's fascinating. They motivate us, 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:57.120 they create meaning for us, and there's that deep, deep 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.160 research behind them, which is really what you want want 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:04.679 to see when you apply tactics for a topic like that. 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.320 Absolutely, well, we're going to take a quick ad break 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:16.640 and I'll be back with more from Chris Bailey. I 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.360 am back with Chris Bailey, author of the brand new 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.280 book Intentional How to Finish What You Start. 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:23.600 So what we. 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.480 Mentioned earlier that sheer practicality of how much time you 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.319 have available is going to play into whether you finish 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.079 what you start if you've allocated. 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:32.319 Enough time for this. 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.720 And you mentioned that people generally only have about four 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.600 focused hours a day. How does this affect what we 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.520 can take on and reasonably finish. 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.480 Yeah, well this is a great frustration of mine, how 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:52.520 limited our capacity for daily focuses. But yeah, and we 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.440 all know this to some level, to some extent where 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:58.920 the one of the worst things that you can do 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.400 for your productivity is trying to focus on things all 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:03.920 day long, because you get to the point where you're 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.000 rereading the same email for the seventh time, and it's 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.120 just some simple thing that you need to respond to, 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.240 and what you really need in that moment is just 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.679 to go for a walk. It's kind of like what 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.880 you say, Laura. I'm going to butcher this, by the way, 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.560 but you say something along the lines of like, if 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.680 you don't take a break yourself, your brain will take 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:26.280 one for you. Is that close? 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.280 That's pretty close? Yeah, yeah, something like that. 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:32.720 Yes, it's a loose approximation of one of these great 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:37.160 things that you say. And the research on our daily 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.920 capacity for focus it's a bit frustrating, actually, because it 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.360 does show that we have four four and a half hours, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.040 you know, give or take a little bit. It depends 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.560 how naturally motivating we find our work. So if we're 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:54.240 doing something that it feels effortless to us, you know, 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.320 we won't have a problem regulating our attention to refocus 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.880 on that thing continuously. But when we have to regulate 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.800 our attention to focus on something. We do have that 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.760 upper limit of about four hours. And so if you're 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.440 mapping out your day and defining your daily intentions, for 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:19.120 an example, really think and reflect on how much focused 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.480 work you have to do that day. You know, there's 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.320 some meetings that we can kind of zone off in. 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:31.280 Sometimes there's admin work that doesn't require our full attentional capacity. 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.600 But when it comes to the real focus work, we 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.320 do have that natural limit. And so this is I 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.079 think something else that's critical to keep in mind that 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.600 we have a natural capacity for being able to follow 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:51.400 through on the things that requires some mental energy and attention, 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.800 and so really work within those limits or else you'll 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.240 be fighting against them. And so there are these ways 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.280 make your work more naturally motivating by a line it 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.439 with your values. When you don't have autonomy, there are 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.320 you know, take on projects that fire you up because 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:08.760 you'll be able to be productive on them for longer 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.000 when work. And this is you know, the pithy old 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.560 saying find a job you love and you'll never have 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.040 to work a day in your life is true though 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.440 in the research, because you have to regulate your attention 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.760 to focus on caring about it less often, and so 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:24.880 you actually go further with the things that you love, 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:30.200 and so there's a lot of tangential strategies in there too. 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:31.960 Yeah. I think a lot of it comes down to 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.960 how you plan out your goals. And I know you 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.040 mentioned that achieving goals is eighty percent action and twenty 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:40.600 percent planning. I don't know. I might even put the 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.280 planning higher because I think that is why a lot 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.560 of people don't achieve what they're going to do, is 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.920 they haven't thought through the constituent steps. They haven't thought 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.400 through how long those steps will take, and they also 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:57.280 haven't thought through how you know, doable those goals feel 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.360 to them in terms of me. I think you have 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.199 a quote that the less you want to do something, 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:06.080 the shorter your process goals duration should be, so that 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.000 you know, if you keep something to five minutes a day, 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.439 it feels like nothing, but you do five minutes a 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.400 day over and over again, it does add up. 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.240 Yeah. Yeah, And that's the thing that I think people 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.680 get really wrong with goal attainment is you know, they 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.440 get the ratio of planning to action wrong, like you're 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.920 getting at people. I think have this idea where a 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.160 goal is ninety five percent acting towards it. And it 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.480 makes sense that bias, right, because I think, how else 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.000 am I going to achieve a goal but to just 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:36.960 put one foot in front of the other. But if 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.400 you're not even walking in the right direction, it doesn't 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.480 matter how many feet you put after one another. And 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.920 this is another thing that I find fascinating about, this 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:51.240 idea of becoming more intentional, where like you're saying, you know, 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.680 we have these these shorter term goals, we have these 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.680 longer term goals. We have these values which are essentially 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.440 our ultimate intentions in our life there or what we 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.040 strive to get out of a life. And it's fascinating, 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:05.640 you know. One of the things when you look at 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:11.000 the research, there's a lot of different disparate parts of intentionality. Right. 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:15.760 We have our momentary intentions right right now listening to 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.400 this podcast for us chatting on the podcast. We have 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.200 the plans that this are a part of. We have 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.160 the goals that are broader than that. We have the 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.000 priorities that are broader than that. We have the values 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.440 that are broader than that too, each taking place over 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.720 an increasingly long time span. And so in the book, 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.240 I introduced this idea that I've come to really rely 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.320 on in my own life in planning out my goals 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.360 and planning out my plans and stuff called the intention stack, 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:50.760 where it's essentially all those layers of intentionality stacked on 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.800 top of one another right present moment, to the plans, 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.320 to the goals, to the priorities, to the values that 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.800 we all have. These are all just different words, different 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:04.920 containers for this idea of becoming intentional. The difference is 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:09.840 the time frame and how these different layers of intentionality 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.880 in our life can work together. It's quite beautiful in 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:13.280 a way. 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.800 So, Chris, with all those do you have any intentions 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.680 or goals for the new year? I mean this is 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.400 airing at the beginning of a new year, so it's 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:24.320 a topic that's on many people's mind. 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:30.240 Yes, I really want something I find and you might 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.240 find this too, is you know, I look back on 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.320 the other books that I've put out and I think 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:40.720 about the publicity cycle and stuff for them, and one 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.320 thing that bugs me a little bit looking back is 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.560 I wasn't really present enough to enjoy it a lot 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.600 of the time. So you know, you have like in 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.800 the past, what I've done is like I've made a 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:55.240 list of like, oh, okay, I want to get these 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.040 points across, you know, I want to get these points 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:01.560 across talking points in other words. But looking at this book, 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:03.840 I really just want to be present in the conversation. 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.000 There's no notes in front of me, Laura, there's no 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:07.560 notes in front of me. I don't even have the 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.280 list of values, but I probably should. I probably should 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.640 have that one, so I don't drop like a big one, 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:18.320 but really just being present in what I'm doing in 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.159 the new year, especially when things get hectic, you know, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.199 when speaking picks up with the book, when the media 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.520 picks up with the book, I really want to be 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.959 there to enjoy it because I personally this one feels 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.360 special to me in a way where you know, it's 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.480 kind of been incubating these things for ten years or so, 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.400 and so it just feels like almost therapeutic to get 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.679 this book out there into the world. So yeah, just 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:45.760 being present in all that. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.880 I think, all right, well, we're going to take one 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:49.640 more quick ad break and I'll be back with more 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:59.520 from Chris Bailey. I am back talking with Chris Bailey, 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.639 author of the brand new book Intentional How to Finish 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.760 What You Start. So Chris, one of the intentions many 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.679 people set is to develop a good morning routine. 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:11.680 We are here before breakfast. 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.760 However, you've mentioned that your attempts to develop sort of 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.280 an elaborate morning routine over the years have not really 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:20.720 worked because you're not a morning person. 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:21.080 I mean. 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:25.080 So it's sort of coming to grips with our intentions 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.119 and goals need to fit with reality. 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.640 Yeah. Yeah, And that's the thing you know. In the book, 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:35.600 I call it Cpatne goals, because there's some goals we love. 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.400 The idea of waking up early is a really good 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.640 one for me, a good example for me, because I 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.359 love the idea of being a morning person, Laura. I 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:49.400 love the idea of waking up at five or whatever 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:54.359 and getting the morning paper off the doorstep and getting 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.080 a nice coffee or a cup of tea, going and 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.159 meditating and going for a But when an next it 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.920 comes time to implement a change like this into my life, 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.679 I realize that I hate rituals like this. I'd much 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.040 rather sleep in and you know, slumber out of bed 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:16.480 and then grab the paper off the doorstep. So it's 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.400 this idea of CPA tone goals that I've really come 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.280 to think of these as where often we love the 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:27.359 idea of a change, but we really don't want the 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:33.399 practical implications of that change. So this is there's a 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:35.720 great quote I think it's from and Lamont where she 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.480 wrote that how we spend our days is how we 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.080 spend our lives. I think I have the person right 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.680 there and Lamont or Mary Oliver one of the two 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:48.360 flip a coin. But the idea is we have these 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.840 ideas of a lot of these grand changes that we 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.080 want to make to our life, but we don't think 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.000 about the day to day. You know, we want to 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.480 write a book, but what does that actually look like 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.359 on a daily or a weekly basis? To write that? 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:00.960 But we want to run a marathon? Well what does 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.840 that actually look like on a daily and weekly basis? 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.760 And so it goes back to that idea of the 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:11.760 intention stack, where a goal it should be connected with 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.040 what we value because that'll be the motivational propellant that 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.280 we need. And similarly, it should be connected with the 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.159 broader priorities in our life that we can observe. But 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.720 it also needs to connect with the plans that we 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:28.160 have in the daily actions that we take, because if 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.600 it's not God help us in achieving the goal. We 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.399 need to think through all of the different layers of 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:40.080 intentionality so that something isn't just some idea fantasy, cp 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:44.280 a tone bontage that we wish to have and make 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.760 in our life. It becomes this tangible A goal should 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:52.400 really be a tangible representation of a change, of a journey, 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.679 of a story that we're going to go on with 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.520 our life. And so I think that's so critical to 0:20:58.640 --> 0:20:59.280 keep in mind. 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.879 All right, well, Chris, I always ask my guests on 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.040 this show, and I've asked you this before, so then 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:06.959 you'll have to come up with anyone. You may not 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.760 remember what we said last time, but what is something 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.680 you have done recently to take a day from great 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:13.440 to awesome? 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:20.439 Ooh, I have one that's more recent. So my daily 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:24.960 not daily dailies being generous, but you have that great rule. 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.119 Three times a week is a habit. That's what I 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:28.720 do with the gym three times a week. I have 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:32.480 a gym habit. And one thing that I've done recently 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:38.000 is I switched gyms. Because you know, one of the values, 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.159 one of the twelve values, is called hedonism, and you 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.000 know some people have sultry connotations, but it's just pleasure. 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:47.480 It's just sense pleasure. So one thing I've started to do, 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.280 because I, you know, I wasn't enjoying the gym to 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.399 the extent that I could have or should have, is 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.600 I started to treat the gym like a spa. And 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:58.680 so I go there and I make sure I have 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.320