Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.
Speaker 2: This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
Speaker 2: episode is going to be a longer one part of
Speaker 2: the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
Speaker 2: take their days from great to awesome and any advice
Speaker 2: they have for the rest of us. So today I
Speaker 2: am delighted to welcome Chris Bailey back to Before Breakfast.
Speaker 2: Chris is a productivity expert and the author of the
Speaker 2: brand new book Intentional How to Finish What You Start.
Speaker 2: So Chris, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Laura, how you doing.
Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm glad to have you back.
Speaker 2: Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about
Speaker 2: yourself For anyone who's a new listener and wasn't here
Speaker 2: a year and a half ago.
Speaker 3: Well, I have a beard, live in Canada, and I
Speaker 3: like productivity like some people have normal interests. But I
Speaker 3: think people like us, Laura, were just weird in the
Speaker 3: way that we try to opt demise the different components
Speaker 3: of our day. And so that's what I'm obsessed by.
Speaker 3: And so it's that curiosity that drives me into writing
Speaker 3: books on the topic, giving talks on the topic. So
Speaker 3: I guess in a nutshell, I'm an author on productivity.
Speaker 3: I've written three books now this is number four them.
Speaker 3: I'm so excited to get out into the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what drew you to the topic of finishing?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yes, well, it's really the fascination that I have
Speaker 3: with becoming more intentional. And so we all know this, right,
Speaker 3: The intention is a beautiful idea, But we don't always
Speaker 3: finish what we start. But there are the times that
Speaker 3: we do then, and so what separates the times that
Speaker 3: we do finish what we begin from the times that
Speaker 3: we don't. And so this idea of it, like when
Speaker 3: we finish what we start, there was always an intention
Speaker 3: behind what we're doing. But just because we set an
Speaker 3: intention to do something thing doesn't mean that we'll actually
Speaker 3: follow through with that thing. So is this idea of
Speaker 3: follow through and that idea of intentionality it really like,
Speaker 3: for the last ten years or so, I've really fundamentally
Speaker 3: believed that it's intentionality that lives at the core of productivity.
Speaker 3: But then again, the idea of that is quite beautiful,
Speaker 3: But when the rubber meets the road on a daily basis,
Speaker 3: we have to actually be able to follow through with
Speaker 3: those things, and so it was almost the disconnect between
Speaker 3: why do we not always follow through with the intentions
Speaker 3: that we set observing that that really got me curious
Speaker 3: about the research and what strings we can pull on
Speaker 3: behind the scenes in order to overcome the mental resistance.
Speaker 3: We have, the procrastination, we have the fact that some
Speaker 3: things feel meaningless, all that good stuff that's in the book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I was to say, I mean, it seems
Speaker 2: like it's probably a mix between sort of these mental factors,
Speaker 2: like how motivated we are by our various intentions, and
Speaker 2: then just the sheer practical matters of time management, the
Speaker 2: sort of things I talk about that people you know,
Speaker 2: believe they're going to have five hours a day to
Speaker 2: do something and they just aren't in their current lives,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, whatever they're going to do, they're not
Speaker 2: going to finish it because they haven't allocated the time
Speaker 2: in their lives to do so. So I'm curious how
Speaker 2: they what are the factors that lead to somebody finishing
Speaker 2: or not finishing on an intention.
Speaker 3: Ooh, I like that you touched on motivation off the
Speaker 3: start of the question, because motivation is something that has
Speaker 3: always felt nebulous to me, And values are another tangential
Speaker 3: topic to that that's always felt nebulous to me. When
Speaker 3: I think of defining our values, I think of those
Speaker 3: cheesy corporate exercises that I've had to do in the
Speaker 3: working corporate jobs, where some person comes in and says, oh,
Speaker 3: let circle a bunch of words on a page that
Speaker 3: describe who you are. And there's where it's like humor
Speaker 3: and grace and things like that. But there's not really
Speaker 3: any research behind that when you actually dig into that
Speaker 3: kind of stuff, but there is. It turns out on
Speaker 3: human values and values. They're essentially the motivational core of
Speaker 3: who we are, and it's this whole, essentially gold mine
Speaker 3: of scientific research on what motivates us on a deep
Speaker 3: and fundamental level. So from a broad perspective, there's twelve
Speaker 3: main values. We all share them, but in different amounts.
Speaker 3: So some of us value self direction, going our own way,
Speaker 3: with creativity, productivity. I'd imagine a lot of before Breakfast
Speaker 3: listeners are in that boat. Others values. Others of us
Speaker 3: value tradition. Some people value power and face and humility
Speaker 3: and universalism, which is loving and respecting the nature and
Speaker 3: other people there's benevolence. There's stimulation, which is you know,
Speaker 3: the excitement, the novelty that we can experience in the moment.
Speaker 3: There's you know, the list goes up. There's twelve of them,
Speaker 3: and so we all have these in different amounts, and
Speaker 3: every task that we have to do is connected to
Speaker 3: one or more of these values. So if you have
Speaker 3: to write some boring thing, some handbook project or something
Speaker 3: at work, this is an example I keep coming back
Speaker 3: to because this was I have vivid memories of having
Speaker 3: to write one when I worked at Alcatel lousen To
Speaker 3: telecom company here in Ottawa, and it was so aversive
Speaker 3: because I felt like it was something that I had
Speaker 3: to do. You know, it kind of mapped with the
Speaker 3: value of conformity almost because it was just something that
Speaker 3: I needed to do and not really connect with. I
Speaker 3: didn't really connect with it. But I happen to value
Speaker 3: benevolence highly, which is helping and serving other people. And
Speaker 3: so when I reframed it to mentor new employees through
Speaker 3: the handbook project, for myself, it was the same task.
Speaker 3: It was just the way that I approached the thing
Speaker 3: was far far more motivating. So you're exactly right, that
Speaker 3: there are those multiple levels of motivation and follow through
Speaker 3: that we need to focus on. That's kind of the
Speaker 3: broad level of how what does our relationship with the
Speaker 3: things that we have to get done look like? And
Speaker 3: then there's the day to day, which is of course
Speaker 3: fun to chat about too, But I've gone on for
Speaker 3: long enough. We'll talk about that thing about.
Speaker 2: You know, how a value might affect how you Behave
Speaker 2: you tell an interesting story in the book of having
Speaker 2: trained for a marathon. I mean not just like half heartedly,
Speaker 2: like having gone through like four hour training runs and
Speaker 2: then elected not to run it, like just you know,
Speaker 2: and didn't feel like this was a disconnect, like that,
Speaker 2: you actually felt like you had done the part you
Speaker 2: cared about.
Speaker 1: So maybe you could well talk about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well this story bother you, by the way, I
Speaker 3: need to ask.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean not in a particular sense of men,
Speaker 2: you can live your own life, Chris, But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I've signed up for plenty of races that
Speaker 2: I haven't run. It's usually more than I don't want
Speaker 2: to run in the moment because it's like raining on.
Speaker 1: That day or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I know, if I personally can run
Speaker 2: that amount of you know, I've done it before. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I guess it doesn't I don't need to show
Speaker 2: anyone that I can do it.
Speaker 3: Oh, so you're you're kind of like me in this regards.
Speaker 3: So one of the values, and I didn't mention it,
Speaker 3: even though it's a pretty common value overall, and probably
Speaker 3: especially for listeners of this podcast. I know it's high
Speaker 3: for the value for the readers of my website. One
Speaker 3: of the values is achievement, accomplishing things, and so you know,
Speaker 3: and so if you love achieving things, you shouldn't feel
Speaker 3: guilty about that, by the way, you know. So that's
Speaker 3: an important thing, just as if you value tradition and
Speaker 3: you want to live a traditional life or a conformity
Speaker 3: and you want to work in that fid whatever it is,
Speaker 3: don't feel guilty your values. They're fundamental human things. And
Speaker 3: so there was a story that I shared in the
Speaker 3: book where I was training for a marathon way back when,
Speaker 3: over two decades ago, which really hurts to say it
Speaker 3: at this point in my life, Laura, but I essentially
Speaker 3: got to the point where I was running for hours
Speaker 3: on the treadmill in the basement because it was winter
Speaker 3: time at the time, and I just kind of thought, Okay,
Speaker 3: I could run the marathon now, and so I stopped
Speaker 3: training entirely. And I know, like, it's so fascinating how
Speaker 3: the way that we look at the world and interpret
Speaker 3: the world is informed through the lens of what we value.
Speaker 3: Because somebody who values achievement, whose highest value is achievement,
Speaker 3: they might look at that story and think, what is
Speaker 3: wrong with this guy? Like he was so close. All
Speaker 3: he needed to do was wait until summertime and keep
Speaker 3: up like a just a basic maintenance schedule with his running.
Speaker 3: But honestly, my highest value is self direction, going my
Speaker 3: own way. And so once I could see that I
Speaker 3: had been you know that it was a meaningful experience
Speaker 3: that I could do it. I went my own way
Speaker 3: and got to the point where I could have run
Speaker 3: the marathon, I was happy. I was filled. Achievement is
Speaker 3: kind of a middling value. It's not super low for me,
Speaker 3: it's not super high for me. It's kind of in
Speaker 3: the middle. I'm not really driven to achieve things for
Speaker 3: the sake of having achieved them, And so when I
Speaker 3: looked at it, when I think back, I think, oh,
Speaker 3: like that was a really meaningful thing that I did
Speaker 3: training for that marathon, but it wouldn't be meaningful for
Speaker 3: somebody else who values something like achievement, which I find
Speaker 3: it just fascinating. So values there are motivational core, but
Speaker 3: they're also the broader, broader principles that we strive for
Speaker 3: in our lives, and so it's fascinating. They motivate us,
Speaker 3: they create meaning for us, and there's that deep, deep
Speaker 3: research behind them, which is really what you want want
Speaker 3: to see when you apply tactics for a topic like that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, well, we're going to take a quick ad break
Speaker 2: and I'll be back with more from Chris Bailey. I
Speaker 2: am back with Chris Bailey, author of the brand new
Speaker 2: book Intentional How to Finish What You Start.
Speaker 1: So what we.
Speaker 2: Mentioned earlier that sheer practicality of how much time you
Speaker 2: have available is going to play into whether you finish
Speaker 2: what you start if you've allocated.
Speaker 1: Enough time for this.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned that people generally only have about four
Speaker 2: focused hours a day. How does this affect what we
Speaker 2: can take on and reasonably finish.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well this is a great frustration of mine, how
Speaker 3: limited our capacity for daily focuses. But yeah, and we
Speaker 3: all know this to some level, to some extent where
Speaker 3: the one of the worst things that you can do
Speaker 3: for your productivity is trying to focus on things all
Speaker 3: day long, because you get to the point where you're
Speaker 3: rereading the same email for the seventh time, and it's
Speaker 3: just some simple thing that you need to respond to,
Speaker 3: and what you really need in that moment is just
Speaker 3: to go for a walk. It's kind of like what
Speaker 3: you say, Laura. I'm going to butcher this, by the way,
Speaker 3: but you say something along the lines of like, if
Speaker 3: you don't take a break yourself, your brain will take
Speaker 3: one for you. Is that close?
Speaker 1: That's pretty close? Yeah, yeah, something like that.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's a loose approximation of one of these great
Speaker 3: things that you say. And the research on our daily
Speaker 3: capacity for focus it's a bit frustrating, actually, because it
Speaker 3: does show that we have four four and a half hours,
Speaker 3: you know, give or take a little bit. It depends
Speaker 3: how naturally motivating we find our work. So if we're
Speaker 3: doing something that it feels effortless to us, you know,
Speaker 3: we won't have a problem regulating our attention to refocus
Speaker 3: on that thing continuously. But when we have to regulate
Speaker 3: our attention to focus on something. We do have that
Speaker 3: upper limit of about four hours. And so if you're
Speaker 3: mapping out your day and defining your daily intentions, for
Speaker 3: an example, really think and reflect on how much focused
Speaker 3: work you have to do that day. You know, there's
Speaker 3: some meetings that we can kind of zone off in.
Speaker 3: Sometimes there's admin work that doesn't require our full attentional capacity.
Speaker 3: But when it comes to the real focus work, we
Speaker 3: do have that natural limit. And so this is I
Speaker 3: think something else that's critical to keep in mind that
Speaker 3: we have a natural capacity for being able to follow
Speaker 3: through on the things that requires some mental energy and attention,
Speaker 3: and so really work within those limits or else you'll
Speaker 3: be fighting against them. And so there are these ways
Speaker 3: make your work more naturally motivating by a line it
Speaker 3: with your values. When you don't have autonomy, there are
Speaker 3: you know, take on projects that fire you up because
Speaker 3: you'll be able to be productive on them for longer
Speaker 3: when work. And this is you know, the pithy old
Speaker 3: saying find a job you love and you'll never have
Speaker 3: to work a day in your life is true though
Speaker 3: in the research, because you have to regulate your attention
Speaker 3: to focus on caring about it less often, and so
Speaker 3: you actually go further with the things that you love,
Speaker 3: and so there's a lot of tangential strategies in there too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think a lot of it comes down to
Speaker 2: how you plan out your goals. And I know you
Speaker 2: mentioned that achieving goals is eighty percent action and twenty
Speaker 2: percent planning. I don't know. I might even put the
Speaker 2: planning higher because I think that is why a lot
Speaker 2: of people don't achieve what they're going to do, is
Speaker 2: they haven't thought through the constituent steps. They haven't thought
Speaker 2: through how long those steps will take, and they also
Speaker 2: haven't thought through how you know, doable those goals feel
Speaker 2: to them in terms of me. I think you have
Speaker 2: a quote that the less you want to do something,
Speaker 2: the shorter your process goals duration should be, so that
Speaker 2: you know, if you keep something to five minutes a day,
Speaker 2: it feels like nothing, but you do five minutes a
Speaker 2: day over and over again, it does add up.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And that's the thing that I think people
Speaker 3: get really wrong with goal attainment is you know, they
Speaker 3: get the ratio of planning to action wrong, like you're
Speaker 3: getting at people. I think have this idea where a
Speaker 3: goal is ninety five percent acting towards it. And it
Speaker 3: makes sense that bias, right, because I think, how else
Speaker 3: am I going to achieve a goal but to just
Speaker 3: put one foot in front of the other. But if
Speaker 3: you're not even walking in the right direction, it doesn't
Speaker 3: matter how many feet you put after one another. And
Speaker 3: this is another thing that I find fascinating about, this
Speaker 3: idea of becoming more intentional, where like you're saying, you know,
Speaker 3: we have these these shorter term goals, we have these
Speaker 3: longer term goals. We have these values which are essentially
Speaker 3: our ultimate intentions in our life there or what we
Speaker 3: strive to get out of a life. And it's fascinating,
Speaker 3: you know. One of the things when you look at
Speaker 3: the research, there's a lot of different disparate parts of intentionality. Right.
Speaker 3: We have our momentary intentions right right now listening to
Speaker 3: this podcast for us chatting on the podcast. We have
Speaker 3: the plans that this are a part of. We have
Speaker 3: the goals that are broader than that. We have the
Speaker 3: priorities that are broader than that. We have the values
Speaker 3: that are broader than that too, each taking place over
Speaker 3: an increasingly long time span. And so in the book,
Speaker 3: I introduced this idea that I've come to really rely
Speaker 3: on in my own life in planning out my goals
Speaker 3: and planning out my plans and stuff called the intention stack,
Speaker 3: where it's essentially all those layers of intentionality stacked on
Speaker 3: top of one another right present moment, to the plans,
Speaker 3: to the goals, to the priorities, to the values that
Speaker 3: we all have. These are all just different words, different
Speaker 3: containers for this idea of becoming intentional. The difference is
Speaker 3: the time frame and how these different layers of intentionality
Speaker 3: in our life can work together. It's quite beautiful in
Speaker 3: a way.
Speaker 2: So, Chris, with all those do you have any intentions
Speaker 2: or goals for the new year? I mean this is
Speaker 2: airing at the beginning of a new year, so it's
Speaker 2: a topic that's on many people's mind.
Speaker 3: Yes, I really want something I find and you might
Speaker 3: find this too, is you know, I look back on
Speaker 3: the other books that I've put out and I think
Speaker 3: about the publicity cycle and stuff for them, and one
Speaker 3: thing that bugs me a little bit looking back is
Speaker 3: I wasn't really present enough to enjoy it a lot
Speaker 3: of the time. So you know, you have like in
Speaker 3: the past, what I've done is like I've made a
Speaker 3: list of like, oh, okay, I want to get these
Speaker 3: points across, you know, I want to get these points
Speaker 3: across talking points in other words. But looking at this book,
Speaker 3: I really just want to be present in the conversation.
Speaker 3: There's no notes in front of me, Laura, there's no
Speaker 3: notes in front of me. I don't even have the
Speaker 3: list of values, but I probably should. I probably should
Speaker 3: have that one, so I don't drop like a big one,
Speaker 3: but really just being present in what I'm doing in
Speaker 3: the new year, especially when things get hectic, you know,
Speaker 3: when speaking picks up with the book, when the media
Speaker 3: picks up with the book, I really want to be
Speaker 3: there to enjoy it because I personally this one feels
Speaker 3: special to me in a way where you know, it's
Speaker 3: kind of been incubating these things for ten years or so,
Speaker 3: and so it just feels like almost therapeutic to get
Speaker 3: this book out there into the world. So yeah, just
Speaker 3: being present in all that.
Speaker 2: I think, all right, well, we're going to take one
Speaker 2: more quick ad break and I'll be back with more
Speaker 2: from Chris Bailey. I am back talking with Chris Bailey,
Speaker 2: author of the brand new book Intentional How to Finish
Speaker 2: What You Start. So Chris, one of the intentions many
Speaker 2: people set is to develop a good morning routine.
Speaker 1: We are here before breakfast.
Speaker 2: However, you've mentioned that your attempts to develop sort of
Speaker 2: an elaborate morning routine over the years have not really
Speaker 2: worked because you're not a morning person.
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: So it's sort of coming to grips with our intentions
Speaker 2: and goals need to fit with reality.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And that's the thing you know. In the book,
Speaker 3: I call it Cpatne goals, because there's some goals we love.
Speaker 3: The idea of waking up early is a really good
Speaker 3: one for me, a good example for me, because I
Speaker 3: love the idea of being a morning person, Laura. I
Speaker 3: love the idea of waking up at five or whatever
Speaker 3: and getting the morning paper off the doorstep and getting
Speaker 3: a nice coffee or a cup of tea, going and
Speaker 3: meditating and going for a But when an next it
Speaker 3: comes time to implement a change like this into my life,
Speaker 3: I realize that I hate rituals like this. I'd much
Speaker 3: rather sleep in and you know, slumber out of bed
Speaker 3: and then grab the paper off the doorstep. So it's
Speaker 3: this idea of CPA tone goals that I've really come
Speaker 3: to think of these as where often we love the
Speaker 3: idea of a change, but we really don't want the
Speaker 3: practical implications of that change. So this is there's a
Speaker 3: great quote I think it's from and Lamont where she
Speaker 3: wrote that how we spend our days is how we
Speaker 3: spend our lives. I think I have the person right
Speaker 3: there and Lamont or Mary Oliver one of the two
Speaker 3: flip a coin. But the idea is we have these
Speaker 3: ideas of a lot of these grand changes that we
Speaker 3: want to make to our life, but we don't think
Speaker 3: about the day to day. You know, we want to
Speaker 3: write a book, but what does that actually look like
Speaker 3: on a daily or a weekly basis? To write that?
Speaker 3: But we want to run a marathon? Well what does
Speaker 3: that actually look like on a daily and weekly basis?
Speaker 3: And so it goes back to that idea of the
Speaker 3: intention stack, where a goal it should be connected with
Speaker 3: what we value because that'll be the motivational propellant that
Speaker 3: we need. And similarly, it should be connected with the
Speaker 3: broader priorities in our life that we can observe. But
Speaker 3: it also needs to connect with the plans that we
Speaker 3: have in the daily actions that we take, because if
Speaker 3: it's not God help us in achieving the goal. We
Speaker 3: need to think through all of the different layers of
Speaker 3: intentionality so that something isn't just some idea fantasy, cp
Speaker 3: a tone bontage that we wish to have and make
Speaker 3: in our life. It becomes this tangible A goal should
Speaker 3: really be a tangible representation of a change, of a journey,
Speaker 3: of a story that we're going to go on with
Speaker 3: our life. And so I think that's so critical to
Speaker 3: keep in mind.
Speaker 2: All right, well, Chris, I always ask my guests on
Speaker 2: this show, and I've asked you this before, so then
Speaker 2: you'll have to come up with anyone. You may not
Speaker 2: remember what we said last time, but what is something
Speaker 2: you have done recently to take a day from great
Speaker 2: to awesome?
Speaker 3: Ooh, I have one that's more recent. So my daily
Speaker 3: not daily dailies being generous, but you have that great rule.
Speaker 3: Three times a week is a habit. That's what I
Speaker 3: do with the gym three times a week. I have
Speaker 3: a gym habit. And one thing that I've done recently
Speaker 3: is I switched gyms. Because you know, one of the values,
Speaker 3: one of the twelve values, is called hedonism, and you
Speaker 3: know some people have sultry connotations, but it's just pleasure.
Speaker 3: It's just sense pleasure. So one thing I've started to do,
Speaker 3: because I, you know, I wasn't enjoying the gym to
Speaker 3: the extent that I could have or should have, is
Speaker 3: I started to treat the gym like a spa. And
Speaker 3: so I go there and I make sure I have
Speaker 3: a bit more time. I'll, you know, make sure I
Speaker 3: have a time for the shower. After I switched gym,
Speaker 3: so they have like fancy, fancy or shampoo and stuff.
Speaker 3: It's more luxurious. It's only twenty dollars more a month,
Speaker 3: and I go more. I go more often because it's
Speaker 3: so pleasurable. It's so luxurious. It's eighty dollars Canadian a month,
Speaker 3: which is probably like fifty five US. So it's not
Speaker 3: crazy either, but it's very nice. So treating the things
Speaker 3: that I'm struggling with kind of like a spa is
Speaker 3: a weird tactic, But that frame for me where it
Speaker 3: becomes more about the heaton is the heatonistic side of
Speaker 3: of the experience. It negates a lot of the aversion
Speaker 3: that I have around so the gym. Treating the gym
Speaker 3: like a spa, if you're struggling with a gym routine.
Speaker 3: Treat it like a spa. By God, you're gonna love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, especially if you're only going three times a week.
Speaker 2: I mean that could be the other thing too, because
Speaker 2: not aiming for more than that might be the key
Speaker 2: to making it still enjoyable or at least something you
Speaker 2: can talk in your life.
Speaker 1: So exactly, what what are you looking forward to right now?
Speaker 3: Oh? The well, besides the book coming out, I feel
Speaker 3: I've plugged it enough, though, I'm actually really looking forward
Speaker 3: to to to releasing this book out into the world.
Speaker 3: We're filming a little bit before. I hate that I'm
Speaker 3: ending this on a plug. I'm I'm I don't love
Speaker 3: plugging stuff actually, but as a as a Canadian, you know,
Speaker 3: But I'm so excited to share these ideas with the
Speaker 3: world and to see that people connect with these values,
Speaker 3: especially because they're they're like what motivate us at at
Speaker 3: Even if you don't buy the book, think about how
Speaker 3: the values that that we've been chatting about today, how
Speaker 3: they influence your goals, your level of motivation, your level
Speaker 3: of meaning in your day. I'm so excited to to
Speaker 3: just shout from the mountaintop about these twelve values because
Speaker 3: I think they're they're going to help a lot of
Speaker 3: people out and see their motivations and the motivations of
Speaker 3: other people actually differently as well. So that's what I'm
Speaker 3: hoping for.
Speaker 1: Excellent. Where can people find you?
Speaker 3: Oh? Here in my office and can Chris Bailey dot.
Speaker 1: Com can't co visit your office?
Speaker 3: There? Well, if you're in Autawa, come on by. You
Speaker 3: got to find the place. I guess yeah, Chris Bailey
Speaker 3: dot com for my newsletter, and the book is called
Speaker 3: Intentional How to Finish what You Start?
Speaker 1: Excellent.
Speaker 2: Well, everyone, Chris, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback
Speaker 2: on this or any other episode, you can always reach
Speaker 2: me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and
Speaker 1: here's to making the most of our time. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback,
Speaker 1: you can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Speaker 1: Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts
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