WEBVTT - What is Partition...and Why Do People Need to Know About It 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:10.399 Warning. The following episode contains stories of extreme violence. I 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:12.639 didn't know it that I would go anywhere or not. 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:18.520 I was just enjoying the independent state, saying all the 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:22.080 final about and they were we were dunking on the 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.160 on the road. I don't know. I didn't know what 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:31.520 to be left for our next day. That is my 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.800 grandfather or my daughter John speaking. I called him recently 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:39.240 over what'sapp to ask about something that happened many years ago. 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.120 He's eighty nine years old and he lives in Karagi. 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:46.720 Even though the connection wasn't very good, what he told 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.200 me brought me back with him to his teenage years. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:54.680 It was June three and he was fourteen years old 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:56.800 when he found out that the country he called home 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.800 was going to be severed into pieces. He heard the 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.560 used from his father, the newspapers and on the airwaves, 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.080 but had no idea what this meant for him or 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:10.280 his family. What was this news? Britain was finally going 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.880 to grant India independence and in the process a new country, 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.000 Pakistan would be formed. With this information, a difficult choice 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.560 was rapidly approaching. Were they going to stay in India 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.520 or would they make the trip to Pakistan, so many 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.920 factors were still at play, the official boundary lines were 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.640 still unknown. There remained that way until a few days 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:34.560 after the official independence days of each country August fourteenth 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:39.080 for Pakistan and August fift for India. Imagine the gravity 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.640 of this situation. Most of us on any given day 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:45.280 can't decide on a place to grab food when we're hungry. 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.720 But this decision is one that would not only impact 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:53.000 my grandfather, but future generations of our family. For many, 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.000 this was not a leisurely choice, but one made on 0:01:56.040 --> 0:02:00.080 the basis of survival. If you have no idea know 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:04.360 what I'm talking about, you aren't alone. From I Heart Radio, 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.440 This is Partition, a podcast that will take a closer 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:14.600 look into this often forgotten part of history. Seven Partition 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:18.399 of India is a story of panic, chaos, and violence. 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.520 The partition created two independent nations, the Muslim majority Pakistan 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.560 and the Hindu Sikh majority India. When the British left India, 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:32.079 they made these divisions along religious lines, even though Muslims, Hindus, 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.760 and people of other faiths all had lived together in 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:39.600 the same communities for generations. Over fourty million people were displaced, 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.720 making it the biggest mass migration in history. It's estimated 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.200 between a half a million to two million died in 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:50.080 the ensuing violence seventy five years to the day, and 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.359 we still don't know the exact number of lives lost, 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:57.760 and it's safe to say we never will. My name 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:02.280 is Najazi's a writer, podcaster, and film programmer living in Austin, Texas. 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:04.840 I was one in Karachi, Pakistan, and came to the 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.000 US with my parents, my sister, and eight suitcases when 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.600 I was just eight months old. I'm going to be 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.600 real with y'all. As an immigrant and Muslim growing up 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.000 in the South, especially when eleven happened, I very much 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.800 shied away from these parts of my identity. I didn't 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.280 have any interest in learning about my culture or where 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.040 I came from. It wasn't until my first semester at 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.720 the University of Texas at Austin where I truly found 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:30.760 a space where I was able to embrace these parts 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.040 of me and take the time to discover myself more 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.800 as a person. I didn't get the opportunity to go 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.160 back to Pakistan until I was twenty seven years old. 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.080 Both my parents had been back on separate occasions, seen 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:43.760 was the year we were all going to be together. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:59.800 It was like a homecoming of sorts. I was so 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.160 excited that not even the combined seventeen hour flight was 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.720 enough to get me down. When we landed, it was 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.120 about four am. I had barely slept, but it didn't matter. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.920 I was wide awake and taking everything in. During this trip, 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.960 I got to see where my parents went to school, museums, 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.600 and markets. I would be in a car and look 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.040 at the window and there'd be a camel next to us. 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:23.800 I didn't write a camel then, but I did on 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.400 my second trip, and let's just say I don't think 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.839 I would do it again. I saw relatives that I 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.000 haven't even seen since I was a baby, and didn't 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.840 even have any recollection of They would tell me little 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.120 antidotes of what I was like in those first few months. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.320 Apparently I smiled a lot, which I find very easy 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.279 to believe based on the handful of photos I have 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.000 from that time. This trip was everything I could have 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.279 wanted my first trip back to my home country to be. 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.000 From exploring the Arabian Sea down south to the mountains 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.440 and snow up north, but I also found out something 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.719 dark and sinister. It was something that had changed the 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:04.040 lives of every single one of my family members, including Line. 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:07.840 The malls in Pokistan are a lot different than the 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.280 malls in the United States. They kind of act as 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.440 a nightlife for the cities, since many Asian countries are dry. 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.520 The handful of nightclubs that do exist or mostly for 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.960 the extremely wealthy or for tourists. The malls are open 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.440 super late, usually until about eleven PM, with the food 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.440 courts closing around one AM. So when I stumbled upon 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.760 an exhibit that was being hosted at the Dolman Mall, 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.080 where I was now a frequent visitor, by filmmaker Charmin 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.680 obeyed Chnoi, a two time Academy Award winner, I knew 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.000 I had to take a look. This is where the 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:43.440 story really starts. I'm not really sure what I expected 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:45.960 when I walked in, but I certainly didn't expect to 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:50.080 be so shocked. The exhibit in question was called Home 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.440 and it's about the partition of India. I had been 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.560 aware that Pokistan used to be a part of India, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.880 but I didn't know the stories, or more accurately, the 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:04.720 horrors that surrounded this event. I just remember getting more upset, agitated, 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.680 and confused. As I walked from room to room, I 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.480 kept looking back at my parents. They seemed immersed in 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.960 what they were looking at, but I couldn't really gather 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:17.839 much beyond that. Toni's exhibit featured oral histories, objects, and 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.839 so many different stories. I was sitting next to my 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.839 parents watching a video about a survivor giving their account 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.480 of how they had to flee their village, and another 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.160 being separated from her loved ones. Afterwards, we made our 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.799 way to the food court for lunch, and I distinctly 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:37.640 remember freaking out in every possible way. I am someone 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.040 who wears their heart on their sleeve, so my emotions 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.279 were very much on display. I never knew this, not 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.120 even a little bit. I'm sure whenever I read this 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.200 exhibit was happening and mentioned some of the awful statistics 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.000 about partition, but I guess I must have really skimmed 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.200 the section. We were eating our food, and it was 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.800 just this insane picture of us having this intense conversation 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:03.320 over KFC and ME repeating over and over, why didn't 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.480 I know about this? Why didn't anybody tell me this? 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:12.280 While waving a chicken strip in my hand. How could 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.560 I be twenty seven years old and consider myself proud 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.200 to be South Asian and not even have the slightest 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.680 idea of how a major event in our history truly unfolded. 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.760 I felt like a fraud. How would I even begin 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:29.400 to come to terms with this information? We saw this 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.360 exhibit towards the tail end of our trip. We obviously 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:34.360 still had a lot of fun in our remaining days, 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:36.680 but I did feel like there was a dark looming 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.520 cloud over me until I returned back home, and to 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.120 be honest, it still feels that way sometimes. After our 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.680 simultaneous out of body experience and a hard dose of reality, 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:50.160 I began to look into partition. What else didn't I know? 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.560 The first thing that became abundantly clear that it was 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.560 a ridiculously hasty decision. Britain was broke after the war 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.520 and they could no longer afford to rule India. They 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.440 exhausted all the resources they could and wanted out. In fact, 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.600 India was a world's richestination from one to d But 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:14.000 when the British left, India's GDP plommeted Lord Mountbatten, the Viceroy, 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.280 a representative of the monarch was tasked to oversee the 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.000 severance of India. I don't think anyone could have summed 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.360 up this event quite as well as British historian Yasmin Khan. 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:29.080 She noted in her book The Great Partition was the 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:34.360 perfect storm of hope, disaster, leadership, and blunder. Prior to 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.360 the announcement on June third, there have been numerous meetings 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:41.000 between the Muslim League, Indian leaders and the British to 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.240 come up with the plan to disillusion the British Raj. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.160 There was never going to be a perfect solution. Each 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.920 party involved had their own desires and motives and were 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:56.640 unwavering in their fight. Key players included Mohammad Ali Jinna, 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.800 the founder of Pakistan, and jal Wal Herlala Route, prime 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:05.240 Minister of India after independence. These two men, along with others, 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.920 were one complicit in this decision. However, their roles I 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.480 don't think can compare to the British. That being said, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.079 I'm not really here to discuss men and their soul 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.720 called accomplishments or feelings. That is a story that gets 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.880 touted around far too much. When I set out to 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.440 do this podcast, I wanted to tell just the facts 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.320 that quickly became an impossible task. How can you be 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.720 impartial to a story that is your own? Those are 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:35.600 the people I want to hear from, ordinary people, the 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:39.520 ones who have been ignored and silenced for decades. The 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.720 more I found out about partition, the more questions I had, 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.720 especially in relation to my identity. It's super wild to 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.760 think about how divergent my life could have been if 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.640 my great grandparents didn't decide to move. Our culture and 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.840 religion could be completely different. This notion is even more 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.400 fueled by the fact that these two countries still have 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.320 an incredibly tumultuous relationship with each other, especially in regards 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.080 to their borders. I will take a deeper dive into 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:13.400 this topic in another episode. Another big question that came 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:15.600 to mind was where was this history when I was 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.880 in school. I don't know about y'all, but the formation 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.480 of a new country is a big deal and probably 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.320 warrants a discussion of some sort. As far as my 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.959 memory serves, we learned about Gandhi and how he was 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.080 a pacifist and stood up to the crown, and that's 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.520 about it. I wanted to confirm this information, but when 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:35.560 I reached out to the higher ups from my school 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.760 district in Arlington, Texas. My queries went unanswered for the 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.320 most part, and when I did receive an answer, the 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.360 only information I was given was where the subject could 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.040 potentially pop up in a standardized test. We learned about 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:52.120 so many outrageous injustices like the Holocaust, but for whatever reason, 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.640 Partition has been continually erased from the narrative. While it 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.120 is true that history holds more catastrophes and we could 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.920 possibly count, Partition is unique because we have no memorials 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:07.480 in either country recognizing this traumatic event. In A Partition 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.400 museum was created, but it's in India, making it essentially 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.319 impossible for any Pakistanis to visit. There is no easily 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.240 accessible communal place to reflect on this grief. Partition isn't 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.319 something that just happened in the past, but in actuality 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.280 is more of a living, breathing thing that comes to 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:31.000 haunt our daily lives. I am a grandchild of Partition. 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.880 The hardships of those who suffered before me are always 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.520 on my mind. In return, I believe it is our 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.520 duty and our legacy to ensure the world knows what 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:44.559 happened in I don't want unsavory facts swept under the rug, 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.040 or to sugarcoat atrocities to make them seem not that bad. 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.720 Ignorance is not bliss. Early on, I conducted a Twitter 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.800 poll just to gauge where people were at. I asked, 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.920 without looking it up, does anyone know what the party 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:04.480 Shan is? One? People voted, with thirty one nine percent 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.280 saying yes. Well, sixty eight point one percent, so they 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.200 had never heard of it before. I want people to 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.080 know this history and to learn the notion that just 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.240 because it didn't happen to you or anyone you know personally, 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.280 doesn't mean it's not important. I ask everyone to read 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.840 the paper, watch the news, open an app on your phone, 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.679 and look at the countless immigrant and refugee crises around us. 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.640 It isn't just a matter of countries not having it together, 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.400 but the years and years of colonialism and imperialism that 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.840 took place to make them that way. I was in 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.160 the dark for so long, and I don't want that 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.920 to be the case for anyone else. My grandparents on 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:42.800 my dad's side lived with us for a few years 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.280 in Texas, and not once did I ever ask or 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.800 think to ask what their lives were like back then. 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.280 Now only two of my four grandparents are still alive 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.400 and their memories are not what they once were. You 0:12:55.440 --> 0:13:07.880 could consider this my attempt at atonement. Earlier, you heard 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.320 my grandfather tell you the state of confusion he was 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.440 in when he learned about partition. He lived in Bombay, 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.439 and while this area wasn't as hostile as the others, 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.560 he still had his fears as a teenage boy. Unfortunately, 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.080 the audio for this clip is a little rough, so 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.640 my dad is going to read his words aloud. He 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.040 says the words they many times, and he's referring to 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:37.439 both Indians and Pakistani's. Bombay had very minor violence between 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:42.280 the gundas. You know, they were shouting. One was shouting 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:47.360 against Pakistan, the other one was shouting against India and 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:52.240 the leaders and everything. When a few people get together 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:57.559 Europe there they would start shouting. The other side also 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:02.320 threw stones and soda water bottles. If they saw anyone 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:08.080 alone in the Muslim or Hindu localities, they would kill them. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.839 They would step them. That happened once in a while. 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.720 This one. I used to get scared going to school 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:23.520 because a school was by the border in one of 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:27.640 our conversations, my grandpa casually mentioned that my great aunt 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.400 was born on the day of partition. I was gobsmacked. 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.280 I am still finding out so much information from my 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.280 family and about my family by accident. Even though my 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.880 great aunt Pervine would obviously have no recollection about what happened, 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.240 I did want to ask her what people told her. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.680 There were a lot of rights over there, and then 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:54.040 many hundreds and millions of people were killed at that time, 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.760 more than a million people were killed in fifteen million people. 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.840 They moved from from India to Pakistan and some from 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.440 Pakistan to India. The rights were so bad they killed everybody. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.160 Bussus a lot of people were killed. Everybody was trying 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.920 to get on train, but maybe thousands of people they 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.400 couldn't make it because they were killed between the roads. 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:22.800 Like traveling from here to day again, try to latch 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.040 onto this information. This is one of the biggest refugee 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.920 catastrophes in the world. Numerous accounts were called. People waiting 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.000 to travel on trains, desperate to leave, and when many 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.520 of the trains pulled into the stations, they were already 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:41.320 filled with passengers, but they weren't alive. Article from the 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.000 New York Times mentions just some of the scenes people 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.200 had to enter so there. Shaanna Kumari watched a mob 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.480 and pale her one year old cousin on a spear, 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.720 almost want His father held a can of fuel and 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.480 some matches, instructing her to set herself afire if friars 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.160 broke into their home, and a k and Nn saw 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.400 terrified family leeing villages by foot, in ox carts and 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.360 on horseback along roads littered with corpses, picked apart by 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:11.320 dogs and bloated from the rain. Were these harsh truths 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:15.360 detailed on screen or were they glossed over? I'll give 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:43.880 you a taste after the break. Naturally, when researching anything, 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.280 I wanted to see what film and TV depictions were 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:50.000 out there. And it's not great, so much so that 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.720 it warrants its own episode. But I will tell you 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:57.760 all these tidbits. Barely anything I watched addressed women, children, 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.040 religious minorities, or wreck fugees. Most of what I saw 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.160 were men talking, or rather complaining about everything under the sun, 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.480 except how partition would actually affect the people living in 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:13.399 the places they were eager to tear apart. Partition doesn't 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.760 have a Schindler's List, something that is widely available to 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.800 the masses to consume. Where's our epic, our, PBS miniseries 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.160 or HBO drama, whereas AMD this could be your next 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:29.240 project and I'm completely available to write interact. Of course, 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.560 there are books. Books are always great, but I'm willing 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.600 to bet the majority of us aren't going to go 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.159 that route when learning about something new. Our attention spans 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.200 are so minuscule that new information has to be doled 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.359 out and digested in tiny pieces with the hope that 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:48.800 these stories will resonate. There are so many important facts 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.560 that are either skipped or half ascidly thrown into the 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.159 media depictions just to check it off a list. What 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.480 if I told you that no one visited the communities 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.080 that would soon be separated to see whether or not 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:05.639 the proposed solution to divide India made any sense, or 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.679 that the United Nations was deliberately left out of the 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.560 conversation to avoid any delays. What if I told you 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.000 that the boundary line was to be drawn out in 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.560 five weeks by a lawyer who had never even been 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:23.240 to India before. What if I told you seventy women 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.600 are thought to have been raped and abducted. We never 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.840 get the terror, anguish or heartache. I did witness these 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.840 emotions in home, n but this was a temporary exhibit 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.480 and again not something that is incredibly accessible to everyone. 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.639 I can't remember if photography was allowed Either way, I 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.880 don't think I would have brought myself to take any photos, 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.400 but I did end up taking one of my mom. 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.600 When we were leaving. By the exit, there was a 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.480 question posed on a wall with hundreds of sticky notes 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:57.480 littered with answers underneath. Some of the answers traditionally would 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.840 be considered mundane, but not in as context. My dad 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:03.920 and I were heading out and I was shocked to 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.440 see my mom write something down. I didn't know if 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.560 she would remember this moment, but I decided to call 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:21.520 her and ask her about it. Hi now, h Hi Mom, 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.520 thanks for coming on the podcast. Um, So, do you 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.040 remember when we went to Pakistan for the first time 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.560 and we want to that exhibit at the mall and 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:33.159 it was about partition and I was very shocked by 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.400 everything that I saw. But it's obviously a story that 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.199 you and Dad know very well. Can you tell me 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.960 how you felt when you saw what you saw um. 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:47.200 I felt really sad. Although I was not a part 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:53.040 of that partition, but my parents and grandparents and many 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:59.400 other families got rooted out of their homes, and unfortunately, 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:06.040 memories of what my parents and grandparents told me hazy 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:10.640 or they are no longer there. And although we've read 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:16.240 about them in school and colleges about the history of seven, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:22.320 but looking at these brought back a lot of emotions 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:29.280 and sadness to see that how people survived, how people 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:35.560 moved on, and what they must have faced during that time. Uh. 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:38.639 Usually you don't really participate in a lot of things. 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.919 But when you saw a question that was posed on 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.720 the wall when we were leaving, that said, what would 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:45.520 you take with you if you had to leave your 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:50.400 home in seven? I was really surprised that you actually 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.720 wrote something down. Can you talk about that? I felt 0:20:55.520 --> 0:21:00.159 compelled to write something on that wall, and what I 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.240 wrote on it was that I would take my family 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.399 pictures with me because they would remind me of the 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.960 times that we had spent in our that home. It 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:16.880 would remind me what we were left off was memories. 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:23.399 Everything else can be replaced, everything can be bought, but 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.360 the memories that we've shared the memories that we have. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.240 The pictures would tell a story, and that I think 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.840 is the most important thing that I would ever take 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.359 if I ever were to leave a home. Thank you 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.679 for talking to me, Thank you Nihah for inviting me 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.200 to be a part of your podcast, and I'm anxiously 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:51.240 waiting to listen to it. This season on Partition, I 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.840 navigated a whole lot of material which really tested my 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:59.720 limits as a person. The sheer brutality of what I heard, read, 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.159 and saw was more than enough sadness to last me 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:09.480 a lifetime. You'll hear from survivors we just escaped because 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.359 you know, all those headless bodies and all the people 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:15.800 who were massacred were there around us. We just had 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:21.120 to hide in the train. Historians there is also really 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.840 feel that these stories will get lost if their not know. 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:27.080 I really felt that that I didn't want these wants 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:32.639 is to be released. Filmmakers, I think as children of 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:36.960 parents who went through partition and who won't talk about 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:40.919 it so much, a part of our healing is to 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:44.399 understand what happened on a micro level and a macro level. 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.760 How did this affect our family in ways that we 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.280 have to investigate when they won't talk about it, and 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.320 many more people who are also trying to shed light 0:22:55.440 --> 0:23:00.440 on the truth about what happened in until now nex Week, 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:08.240 I'm ness and this is Partition. Partition was developed as 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.440 a part of the Next Up initiative created by Anna Hosnier, 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:17.359 Joel Monique and Sina Median. Partition is produced by Anna Hosnier, 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:22.479 Tricia Mukerjee and Becca Ramos. It is edited by Rory Gagan, 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:43.800 with the original score composed by Mark Hadley.