WEBVTT - I Choose...To Choose Me with Tina Knowles 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:09.680 You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Hi, everyone, 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:12.959 welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.200 the choices we make and where they lead us. My 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.759 guest today grew up in Galveston, Texas, where she was 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:25.600 the youngest of seven children. She became a salon owner, 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:31.920 a fashion designer, and the mother of two female musical powerhouses, 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.159 and in recent years she launched the hair care brand 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:41.760 Sacred with one of her daughters. Her incredible memoir, Matriarch, 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.120 is out now and it is so interesting to hear 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:50.560 her story. Through this book, she weaves not only the 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.600 history of her own family, but historical moments that shaped 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.960 the woman she became. I cannot wait to talk with 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.840 her all about it. Please welcome Ms. Tina Knowles to 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:07.720 the podcast. Well hello, Beyaure, it is such an honor 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:12.280 to have you here. Your book is so beautifully written. 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:13.600 Well, thank you. 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.840 I mean the way you intertwined your own history and 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.680 your life journey with the experiences you had growing up 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.920 during the civil rights movement, as well as sharing the 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:26.920 racism you and your family are endured and all the 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.360 hardships that you all overcame. You painted such a vivid 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.360 picture for me as a reader, and it was truly 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:34.759 an honor to read it. 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.120 Thank you so much. 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:39.720 I mean it. One of the things that I loved 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.440 about your memoir was being able to take a look 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.440 into your past, your parents' past, your aunts, and your 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:53.360 uncle's really sharing so much about the family that made 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:57.400 you who you are. It was very interesting to me. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.440 I have to be honest, being the youngest child, I 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.920 feel like you learned so much by observing your older 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:08.639 sisters and your brother's life choices. But you were kind 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.880 of your own thing. You were a tenacious little girl 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.120 and so beautifully curious. You had a strength in you 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:22.600 from the very beginning, which I identified with. You describe a 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:27.359 defining moment with the mean nuns at your school when 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.760 you stood up for yourself and you said, I belong 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:32.320 wherever I want to be. 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:33.919 That. 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:36.760 Yeah, that made me get the goosies. To have that 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:38.880 kind of confidence in that voice at such a young 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.760 age like that. Do you think that you got that 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.880 from your mom and the women before her in your life, 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:46.639 or do you really feel like you learned so much 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:48.280 of that from your siblings. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.560 I think that for me, honestly, my mother was not 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:58.600 the most outspoken person. But but I know that I 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:03.960 have that lineage because of both of my great grandmothers 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.720 were slaves, but they managed to keep their family together 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.399 and a time when you know, families were totally separated. 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.760 And so although I never got to meet them or 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.919 talk to them or whatever, I would imagine that that 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:23.119 fighting spirit was there, just passed down from generation to generation. 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:28.079 And that the other thing that I've often thought, because sometimes, 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.960 you know, I talked to people about my history with 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.000 the nuns and how I stood up to them as 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.080 much as I could be in a five year old 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:40.280 and not really being greatly protected by my mother because 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.119 she was I just felt like she was a little 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.920 brainwashed by the Catholic religion. And I also was born 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.680 to forty four year old parents, and talking to my siblings, 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.160 They're like, you got away with murder. I think that 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.720 was tired. They were trying my mama. 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.120 That's so true with the baby of a family. They 0:03:58.160 --> 0:03:59.200 get away with so much. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.200 I would talk back all the time, and you know, 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.680 I was like, that's how I got the name badass 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.240 teen to b because older people. I was having a 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.840 conversation with my friend Holly pet and she was saying, 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.040 you know, when I was a kid, no adults like me. 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.680 I was like, that's an understatement for me. They would 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.360 be like that little teeny has got the smartest mouth. 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.560 But thank God for that because it gave me the 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.800 ability to fight these nuns and for them not to 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.440 kill my spirit, because they told me constantly, you have 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.800 an evil spirit, and we're going to take that spirit down. 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.679 We're gonna you know, like they were helping me because 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.280 I was like, you know, evil or whatever, and I 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.400 was only five years old. I didn't even know what 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.279 they were talking about. But I did know that when 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.520 they told me these other things about me, that I 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.520 had to fight them. And it's prepared me for my 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.200 whole life because I've been fighting my whole life fighting. 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.159 I'm seventy one years old and I still have to 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.680 fight all the time for respect sometimes, you know. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.000 Yep, yep. I can definitely relate. While you were writing 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.960 this book, did you let your daughters read anything early 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.599 on so you could get their feedback? Well? 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.920 I didn't, But what I did do is I gathered 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.479 together all of their parts and I sent them to 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:18.479 them to listen to on voice and actually the guy 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.680 Kevin O'Leary, who became like family to me, who helped 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.880 me write the book. He did all the fact checking 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:29.280 and you know the things that good writers do. He 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:32.920 did it in his voice, and I sent it to 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.799 them and they were able to tell me if they approved, 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:37.599 and if they didn't approve. I wouldn't have put it 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.600 in a book because I verified, like always terrified to 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:45.200 write a book and to tell somebody else's story. I 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.000 don't want to do that, you know, have their story 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:51.240 to tell themselves, especially when my kids, because there's been 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:56.440 so many crazy mrs and craziness that's been out there, 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.440 you know, really wanted them to approve. 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.840 Yeah, I can imagine. I'm a mother of three daughters too, 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:08.560 and I value my position as a mother more than 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.360 any accomplishment I think I've ever had or will have. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:12.640 Absolutely. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:16.479 Yeah, what do you think the biggest blessing is when 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:18.160 it comes to having daughters? 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.080 Oh? God, it's the best. I mean, you get to 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:27.560 watch them grow and learn, and they teach you things 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.159 every day. I'm sure you're teaching you things every day, 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.719 and you get to kind of get a you know, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.520 just all the things that you know as a kid 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:42.880 and growing up that affected you. Adversely, you get to 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.760 not do those things to your daughters. How amazing is that? 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:46.960 So? 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:52.720 I think, you know, they teach me things every day. 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.440 I'm learning things from my daughters, always has as they 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.600 were kids. They taught me so much too, So I 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.200 just think it's the best if in the world. Too. 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.440 I thought I wanted a boy, but I'm just so 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.760 happy that God blessed me with those girls. 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:07.919 You know what, I thought I was going to have 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.480 three boys really from when I was a little girl, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:16.480 and I turned out having three girls, and I'm so grateful. 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:18.400 I don't know what I would do with a boy. 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:19.960 I know same, you. 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.160 Have grandsons, sons more than grandsons. 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:30.760 I had grandsons and one of them is twenty and 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.160 he is a joy to have around. He actually I 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.440 got the pleasure of he's been living with me for 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.280 the last couple of years. Nice, and you know, it's 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.680 been new for me because, like you said, I don't 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:46.120 really I haven't been around boys that much. And even 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.240 from when he was a little kid, I kept him 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:52.000 a lot, and it was totally different with a boy. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:57.320 I didn't know what I was doing. I imagine it's 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:02.720 joyful as well. But I'm glad I gave me girls didoh. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.640 I loved in your book how you acknowledge that you 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.160 didn't want the lounge to be overshadowed by Beyonce's music 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.680 career when it was first starting out. And I think 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.360 that that feeling is universal for moms, and I can 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.720 really relate to that, not only as a mom, but 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:24.160 also as a daughter who broke into fame and had 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:29.040 my own feelings about overshadowing my sisters. How did you 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.800 manage that and how do you make all of your 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.800 kids feel equally loved and equally supported. 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:38.760 I think the first thing is that you have to 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:42.520 see the differences in them. My kids are so you know, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.240 I claim Kelly Rowland as my daughter as well, and 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.640 you know, all three of them couldn't have been more different. 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:55.000 And I think looking at each kid as an individual 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.680 and not just lumping them because you know, I'm the 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.680 youngest of seven. Sister had eight children. So I remember 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.600 my sister spending group time with her kids. You know, 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:11.480 she used to call them Lena, Denise, Tommy, Rnney she 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:13.439 you know, she had so many kids she would call 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:18.000 them all the names. Oh you know who I mean. 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.080 And my mom used to get so upset about that, 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.640 and she would say, you can't do that. Your kids 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.360 are individuals and you have to look at them as 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.120 different kids. Don't ever do that. And she was like, yeah, 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.960 that's because you don't have all these kids fair steps. 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.520 But I learned that very early to look at my 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:40.199 kids as individuals and not to you know, Beyonce was 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.360 like this little superstar and by the time she was 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.240 eight or nine years old performing everywhere, and Solange was 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.520 came along and was just as talented, but she didn't 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.840 have that experience, and so I didn't want that. I 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:58.640 started seeing Beyonce being irritated by her and not being 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.440 so nice to her little sister her because she had 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.040 this group around her and other friends and they would 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.280 all say be quiet Solange, and Solange would be trying 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.480 to boss everybody around and teach them the choreography and 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:12.520 make up steps, and they were like, you are sick, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.319 sit down and be quiet, and Beyonce was not all 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.080 of a sudden, not defending her. So it scared me. 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.920 So I got them in therapy really early on so 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.120 that they could learn. Beyonce could be learned to be 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.160 sensitive to what her sister was going through and for 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:32.040 Solange to be respectful of her big sister, and you know, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.840 they've been close every since. I was terrified of there 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.880 being a divide with them close. Yeah definitely. 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.560 I mean you said you put the girls in therapy 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.680 at one point. I'm a huge advocate for mental health 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.760 and therapy, so I commend you for that, especially back 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.800 then during a time when it wasn't that widely accepted. 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:57.200 No, and my family was not very happy about it. 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.520 They kept saying, you are crazy, you know, so weird 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.720 and why are you doing this? And even my husband 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:08.360 didn't complain about it, but he didn't really I don't 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.320 think he really believed in it. So I just said, 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.160 I'm going to do it myself. I don't need a 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.400 team of people to do this. I'm going to find 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.680 a therapist and I'm gonna get my kids in therapy. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.319 And it was the best move I could have ever made. 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.200 Yeah, definitely, because what's so important to me is that 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.480 when I'm gone, that they have each other and they're 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:27.240 not just sisters, but they're friends. 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.439 You know, how old are your girls? 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.320 My oldest is twenty seven. I have a twenty two 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:32.839 year old and. 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:34.720 A twenty year old oven yourself girl. 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.880 Hah good, I love that. Thank you. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:42.640 How old is the youngest? Eighteen eighteen? Why you got 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:43.439 grown girls? 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:48.360 I do? I'm almost free. How did you see though, 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.560 your girl's benefit from having therapy at such a young age, 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.719 because I definitely had some times when my girls were 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:56.400 in therapy too. 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:01.880 Yeah. I saw the benefit immediately. With all of a sudden, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:06.480 Beyonce understood her that her little sister, what she was 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:11.760 going through. She just became so much more protective and 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.120 sensitive because that's how they were. She was so happy 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.400 to have a little sister, and she was such a 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.440 great big sister. And then around ten, when she got 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.800 in the singing group, it was like, you know, a 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.960 five year old taking your stuff and coming in and 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:30.600 butting in and tagging along, and it made her more sensitive. 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:35.120 And as she became more sensitive to Solange, Solange felt 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.360 like she didn't have to do so much to get 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.920 her attention, and they just got to be close and 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.080 protective of each other and they still are today. So 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:46.200 it worked. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:57.280 I'm so happy that you did that. Honestly, before reading 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.240 your book, I knew that you had had a successful 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:03.640 career in fashion industry. You were known for making such beautiful, 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:08.120 gorgeous outfits for Destiny's Child and then your fashion line, 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.199 House of Darien. But I didn't know that being a 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.520 seamstress ran so deeply in your family. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.280 Yeah, from generations after generations. You know, everyone in my family, 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:23.240 both my sisters sewed that could really sew, and it's 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.680 it's our legacy and it's the thing that I think 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.880 kept us from you know, I grew up really poor, 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.120 but when you have a skill like sewing or doing 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.600 hair or something like that, you never broke. That's what 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.400 my mama's philosophy was, and it was very true, because 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:41.880 you can always make money. 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.440 So true. And I think sewing is sort of a 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.640 dying art. I know, my mom taught me how to 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.840 make pies, and I taught my daughters how to make pies, 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.400 and I feel like nobody knows how to make pies anymore. 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.120 And it's kind of the same. I know how to sew, 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:57.760 and I've taught my daughters how to sew, but I 0:13:57.760 --> 0:13:59.640 don't feel like other people know how to sew anymore. 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.760 And you know, it's funny because even with stylist, I 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.079 was a stylist, but I also was a seamstress, so 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.719 I know the construction of clothes. I know how they're 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:13.440 supposed to fit. And I was always surprised that I 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:15.599 would get stylist and they wouldn't even know how to 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:16.320 put him in. 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.440 No, they pin it. They barely know how to pin things. Sometimes. 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.880 Yeah, I like double stick, but it's only there for 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:25.440 so long. 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.640 No, it doesn't work forever. Choosing to share your life 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:34.720 with the world is a very brave decision. I'm curious 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:39.280 as you were going back through the moments of your life, 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.400 what were the things that were harder for you to 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:45.200 relive than others. 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:54.160 The pain of losing my mom, my dad, my best 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:59.080 friend Johnny. Those are hard, you know. I just finished 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.320 I did that the audio book. Yeah, and I tell 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.840 you that there was so many tears. I'm like, Tina, 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.440 you've read this book, I don't know how many times, 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.200 and you're still crying. You know. Those were the hardest 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:17.359 things to talk about and to talk about that experience 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:22.640 and not feel so sad and so empty. When it 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.440 came to just losing the people that I love, it 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.080 definitely was the hardest part. 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.680 I know that reading the audio version of the book 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:36.360 can bring up so much. How many days did you 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:37.680 take to do your recording. 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.520 I think it took me like three weeks, but not 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.480 every day all day. Some days were long, some was shorter, 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.280 and some days got so emotional for me that I 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.880 had to stop, you know, because I'm like, they don't 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.520 want you to have the emotion in the book. They're like, Okay, 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.080 blow your nose and you know, clear your throat and 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.280 drink something. So they don't really want you to have 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:05.200 that voice of emotion. But I actually wanted my book 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.840 to have that would have been okay with me. 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.240 Yeah, I would think so. I mean, because I feel 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.000 you mentioned the loss of your mom and your dad 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.720 and Johnny. I feel like I know them because you 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:18.160 wrote about them so vividly. 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.320 That's a that's a that's a real compliment. 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.480 Yeah, I do. Were there was there ever a point 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.840 when you were writing the book that you thought, oh, 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.120 this is too much. I'm not I'm not sure that 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.280 being this open with the world is a good idea. 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.480 All the time. And another thing is this book had 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.880 a thousand pages, and they were like, Lucina, you gotta 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.320 make this book five. Nobody's gonna read a thousand page book, 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.000 And so I had to go in and take a lot. 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.160 And it's so much that I had to take out 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:52.520 that I thought was so great, But a lot of 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:57.240 things I was I was relieved to take them out 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:00.440 because this is scary. This is like a baby, you know, 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:05.720 I know that, you know some people are you know 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:10.080 they're going to use things to try to tear you apart. 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.800 You know, it's just the nature of the beast. And 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.359 it's very scary for me. And I'm being such a 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.879 private person and from a private family. This is a lot. 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:22.919 A lot is a lot. It is a lot. I mean, 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.000 you were really open in the book. You talk about 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.479 the ups and the downs of your first marriage and 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:35.000 how you chose to not be dependent on him. I 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:38.760 think Beyonce was already born and you were pregnant with Solange, 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.159 and you had that moment when you said to yourself, 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:44.520 You'll have to be your own boss. 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:53.679 Yeah. Yeah, because I knew that I was not cut out. Two. 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.280 I don't know how to say this without sounding ob noxious, 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:03.320 but like I knew I couldn't go and worked for 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.320 somebody at that time in my life. It was too 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.879 much going on and I had to be in charge 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.679 of my life. I was so out of charge with 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.399 everything else that I had to be in charge of 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:19.320 my destiny, you know, in my job, and I knew 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.560 I wanted to have a hair salon, but I couldn't 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.080 go work for somebody else first, and I didn't. I 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.120 went straight into my own salon, which I wouldn't suggest 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.879 to anybody else. But it worked for me. It worked 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.040 for me because when I was in beauty school, I 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.480 already built my clientele. I had been planning and planning, 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.080 and I had a great plan and it worked. But 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.120 it doesn't work for everybody. 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.639 Right, Do you feel like you got lucky in some respects? 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:54.280 I was blessed that God opened up a door for 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.200 me and he made it all work smooth, because when 0:18:58.240 --> 0:18:59.879 I told the story in the book, I was like, 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.280 you had a lot of nerves, Like you had a 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.679 lot of nerve to go open the salon and you 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.520 didn't have like you didn't have enough clientele. You didn't 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.840 have you had never worked for another salon, and you 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.800 had the audacity to say, I'm not going to work 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.080 for anybody else. I'm gonna open my own business. And 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:19.800 it worked. 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.200 It did work, Missina. This is crazy because my mom 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.480 when I was younger, a little girl growing up in Illinois. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:33.000 She had a very similar sounding path to you in 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.760 the respect that she knew she needed to take control 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:38.360 of her life and she opened up a hair salon 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.240 just like you. 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:42.040 You're kidding me. 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.159 No, it's just all coming back to me as a 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.200 little girl. I would go to work with her in 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.359 her salon. It was called Cobets that was in a 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.040 very small town in rural Illinois, and I would go 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.520 and just play with all the brushes and paint my 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:58.600 nails all the way up to my wrists, you know, 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.960 and play with every thing in there. It was such 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:03.280 a cool way to grow up. 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.760 Yeah, it is. I mean, my kids have great memories 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.479 of that. Not only you know that part of it, 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:14.520 but like I'm sure you remember the camaraderie that was 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.360 the salon, because that's been such a you know, anytime 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.639 they interview my kids, they'll talk about that time in 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.520 that salon and how empowering it was to them to 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.200 see these professional women from all walks of life and 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.400 just them getting along. And it took away all of 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:40.199 that competitiveness that some girls have that they can't trust 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:45.719 other women, and you can trust the most if you 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:51.920 you know, but they didn't. They don't experience competing. My girls, 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:56.720 they compete with themselves, and that's because they saw that 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.879 camaraderie in that salon. So I wouldn't trade it for 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:01.960 anything in the world. I think it's a great way 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:03.600 for kids to grow up seeing that. 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.119 Yes, you talked also about that in your book. It 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.360 just reminded me you talked about when they I think 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.760 it was Beyonce if I'm not mistaken. She was doing 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:18.560 a pageant and you told her to not be competitive 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.440 with other girls, to only compete with herself. 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.359 Because I mean, you're going to waste all your energy 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:29.919 on someone else and being jealous to them or trying 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.240 to be them, and not spend that time focusing on 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.280 getting better at what you do. It's the truth. I 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.199 mean I live by that every day, like I just 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.840 want everybody to win. It just helps me to win, 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:44.040 absolutely absolute. 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:47.879 Back to what we were talking about before about in 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.240 your marriage, knowing that you needed to take control. I 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:54.640 just that is such a powerful message to women listening 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.800 to this today, knowing your worth when you're not being 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.040 valued in a relationship. Why do you think it's so 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:06.840 important for women to retain independence in a relationship or 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:07.960 in a marriage. 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.760 Well, I think it's important because in those five years 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:16.359 that I was not putting down being a housewife of 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:21.159 being you know, a mother, but I lost touch with 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:25.040 so much of myself. Like when you have a kid 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:28.399 and that's your life and that's your best friend, you know, 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:34.440 your vocabulary shrinks you. You know, your life is different. 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.000 I wouldn't go a lot of places because I didn't 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:40.640 want to leave my daughter with anyone, and b'sed out 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:44.720 on so much of the outside world. That's a part 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:48.560 of it. But also just for me, which is a 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:53.720 tricky situation because even though I got myself together financially, 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.320 and I never have been in a position since that 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:59.119 day to depend on a man to take care of me. 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.760