WEBVTT - Can you treat mental illness with psychedelics? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:17.600 from houseff works dot com? Whoa, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:23.720 I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles Cheek Bryant Chee. Yeah, man, yeah, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:25.680 I wanted to start this one out like a twelve 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:27.520 year old, So that's what I'm going with, a twelve 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:31.280 year old on acid. Maybe maybe it just happened before 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.920 in France actually really thanks to our old friends at 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:39.159 c I A. Oh, they just kids. They just a 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.280 whole town to see what would happen. And one kid 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.400 came at his grandmother and tried to strangle her. Really yeah, 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.839 I can't remember the name of the town. Funny, but well, no, 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.879 people were like showing up at the hospital. There a 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.000 lot of it was funny in that, like, you know, 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.520 all these nineteen fifties French chees are losing their stuff 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.640 for no apparent reason, right, right, but you know the 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.280 suicides that resulted from that not very funny. Before we 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.160 get started, I think we should do like an official 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:13.320 c o A for this one. I think that is 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.520 a very good idea because what Josh and I are 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.760 about to talk about are illegal drugs, and we are 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.720 not endorsing the use of these and they are illegal 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.399 after all. We'll probably say this later on too, but 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.280 we just find it fascinating that they used to be 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.520 used for certain things and they're starting to be used 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.840 again in certain scientific research labs for these things. It 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.319 is extremely fascinating, which is what we're talking about exactly. 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:38.119 I guess this could be a follow up to our 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.320 our mk Ultra cast. It's a follow up and uh, 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.000 it's an epilogue and a prologue. Yes, yeah, very nice 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.000 because we kind of came into the the c I 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.480 A l s D MK Ultra podcast like right in 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:57.360 the middle of the history of LSD much well towards 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:01.240 the beginning. But um, one of the things after nineteen 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:06.840 forty three when Albert Hoffman, right, the chemist who created 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:13.120 LSD tried it. Yeah it was attempt uh and tried 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:17.679 it on himself intravenously. As I understand it, he injected it. 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.280 It says, first he took it by mistake, yeah, because 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.000 it was a blood thinner. And then he took it 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.919 for real. Yeah. After that first bike ride home he 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.040 was like, I gotta do some more and then I 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.520 read uote I became aware of the wonder of creation, 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.520 the magnificence of nature. Yes, to create Dr Hoffman. Yeah, 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.399 and he was just some Swiss guy, Sam chemist. Um. 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.960 He was at the first person to come up with 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:45.480 a synthetic hallucin Jim Back in nineteen fourteen, a German 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:49.040 chemist who worked for Merk the pharmaceutical company, came up 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:53.160 with M D m A, better known as ecstasy. Yeah. 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:57.400 And here's a tip for you, chuckers. Um, anytime, according 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:01.160 to the Associated Press, you write about a designer drug 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.080 and used it by its designer name, capitalize it. So 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:09.239 ecstasy is always capitalized the word ecstasy when you're talking 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.079 about the drug, guest, and not just the euphoric feeling 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.160 you get from life. That's different. That's lower case, okay, 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.000 but it should be all caps. Yeah. Sure, So it 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:25.880 was m d m A was created. Yeah, and it was. Um. 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.440 I guess it served as a it's not a catalyst, 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:31.480 because I think it's changed, but it was to be 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:35.400 used in the synthesis of other chemicals, and it kind 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.240 of sat on the shelves for a little while until 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.560 somebody along the way, and then I wonder what happens 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:46.160 if I take this stuff? And they did, and the 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.720 CIA again looked at it. I wanted to see what 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.560 it could do. Passed it up. UM, and a guy 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:58.520 by the name of Alexander Shulgin, right, yes, he's a 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.320 dow chemist and a night seen seventy eight. At the 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.520 age of seventy four, he published a study on the 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.320 Ufork effects of M D M A. It was the 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:10.280 first time anyone had ever published a study here. But 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.120 he was seventy four and he first noticed the Ufork 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.520 effects because he liked to take it and go to 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.760 cocktail parties of yeah. UM. So he's like, hey, man, 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:23.839 this stuff is the bomb, and here's my study on it. 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:27.960 Here that my findings, and let's everybody start taking this. 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.160 So he starts giving it to his friends, um, including 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.839 some psychiatrists. Did he give out passifiers? Not yet that 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.440 that's coming though, that's very very close. PASSI fires came 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:45.360 about night um. So Shilgin gives some to a friend 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.640 who's a psychiatrist. Psychiatrist some of the more avant garde 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.960 psychiatrists UM start giving it to their patients, and then 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.040 it gets called adam for a little while. For a. 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.919 While this is going on, it's being used by established psychiatrists. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:05.000 A mysterious financier in Dallas, Texas finds out about this 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.760 stuff and starts taking it, hires an underground chemist and 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.160 has it made himself, and then start selling it at 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:17.520 clubs all over Dallas. And so this, this illicit use 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:22.400 of this substance, simultaneous to its emergence on the club 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.840 scene and about the mid eighties, led to the outlaw 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.279 of M D M A. We'll get into it more, 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.119 but the point is to this very long and rambling intro, 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.520 both of these drugs and others were legal at one time, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:44.040 were put to good use, beneficial use, and then outlawed, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:49.800 possibly unfairly, and then now we're starting to see them 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.920 come back into use, hallucinogens being used to treat mental 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:59.160 illness and mental harm in legitimate circles, very legitimate. Quick 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.160 question was that Dallas person was at Cowboys owner Jerry Jones. 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.280 I don't know. I don't think anybody knows who it is. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:12.760 Still gotta start maybe, I think to begin with, so, Josh, 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:14.200 you mentioned the c I A. I do want to 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:18.279 point out it wasn't just the Americans. Uh, the Canadian 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:23.400 government and British's British is it works. Britain's m I 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:28.919 six also experimented with LSD and between nineteen fifty and 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.599 sixty five, forty thou people all over the world had 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:39.480 been treated with LSD and and treatments. Yeah, um, Carrie Grant, Yeah, 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.480 can we go back to Hollywood in in the nineteen yours, 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.719 So a couple of guys set up shop Arthur Chandler. 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:54.520 What was the other guy's name, Oh, Hartman Hartman, Mortimer Hartman, 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.840 who was a radiologist too acid Harman and said, you know, 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.600 I'm gonna get into psychiatry. These guy set up a 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:06.040 shop called the Psychiatric Institute of Beverly Hills right in 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.359 the middle of Beverly Hills. And this is back in 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.440 the day when things were it was clean living going on, 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:17.280 aside from the rampant alcoholism and cigarettes being smoked, adultery. 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.720 Probably some marijuana us going on here there, but that 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.520 was among the hop heads. Yeah exactly. So he sets 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.760 up a couple of rooms with a couch and uh 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:32.480 starts booking patients at a rate of like six or 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.040 eight hours of session, depending on what was going on 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:36.840 with the person, and five days a week. There were 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.480 books solid hundred bucks of pop hunter, which is a 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:41.880 lot of money back then. And I guess that included 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.120 the drugs. The drugs and the time that you were there, right, 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:47.080 So they would sit with you, they will give you 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.000 some blinders to block out distractions, and then you would 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.360 go into sort of like the more meditative sort of 0:07:54.480 --> 0:08:00.040 acid trip. Essentially you were hard, they would because you 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.960 were on pharmaceutical grade l s D produced by the 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:09.720 Sandoz company. We're talking about Alice Huxley, novelist, and actually 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.760 he died tripping. Did you know that? Really? Yeah, he was. 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.840 He had m throat cancer, I think, and uh, the 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:17.840 last thing he ever wrote was a note to his 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:23.040 wife requesting UM such and such milligrams of LSD or 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:29.560 micrograms of LSD injected intramuscular intramuscularly. And that was about 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.840 six hours before he died. So he died and a 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.840 grateful dead record. That was his last request before the 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:44.800 grateful dea. Uh. Screenwriter screenwriter Charles Brackett took it. Director 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.800 Sydney laments it. Lay or lament I think, okay, I 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:50.839 always sad may, but I think I'm wrong. He took 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.120 it a few times, went through sessions, called it wonderful. 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.400 He re experienced his own birth, which apparently a few 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:58.440 people did. I've never heard of that. I haven't either. 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:03.559 And muh Claire Booth Loose was a playwright married to 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.040 Time magazine publisher Henry Loose. She was also an ambassador 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.319 and possibly an agent um for the US government. And 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:15.000 they both took acid so much that Henry Loose and 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.640 Time Magazine said we need to write about this. This 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:19.839 is awesome. Yeah, there's a lot of good press that 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.559 Time Magazine gave LSD in the fifties um as a 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:28.319 basically a cure all um. And again Carry Grant got 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.560 into it big time. Apparently he had like at least 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.240 a hundred trips I believe. Yeah he was. Yeah, let's 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.120 talk about him for a second, because he was one 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:42.200 of these guys that carefully constructed his persona. He worked 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:46.480 very hard. Apparently he was the The line he always 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.040 gave was a lot of people want to be Carry Grant, 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.600 and I'm one of them, indicating that this suave, Mr 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.319 Cool persona was completely fabricating, created by himself so he 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.560 could get you know, the fame and everything, but deep 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:06.920 down he's suffered as a human until he started taking acid, right, 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.440 and then he had um, well, he had some pretty 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.199 interesting revelations, one of which I read one of the 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.959 somebody thought to write down the stuff that he Some 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.440 of the insights he had, um, some were kind of deep. 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.120 Others were like, if I have to look at a man, 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.360 he should be required to comb his hair and brush 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:34.160 his teeth and wear a clean shirt. Yes, it was interesting, 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.600 so it kind of ran the gamut. But yeah, he um, 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:43.439 he became a real devotee of LSD. He yeah, and um, 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.520 well she got him into right who wrote that we're 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.080 part of this we're basing this part on a Vanity 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.959 Fair article art. Yeah, um, it's called the Carrying the 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:58.480 Sky with Diamonds. But he was a huge advocate for LSD. 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.360 He wasn't the only one, um, but he lived to 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.600 see it outlawed and public sentiment turned against it. Right, 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.640 it's just like m D M A um psilocybin, magic 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.120 mushrooms and part of the well, really one of the 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:19.640 you could say that Timothy Leary almost single handedly led 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.719 to the tremendous suffering of a lot of people who 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.599 might otherwise have been helped by LSD with his his 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:29.959 naive bravado of you know, the establishment just needs to 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.200 get over its hang ups and we should all take acid. 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.000 Whether or not you agree that that's a good idea, 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:39.199 it's a stupid thing to say. Leary was originally a 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:43.439 Harvard psychiatrist, right, yes, and he started taking I think 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:47.920 mushrooms and then he eventually started taking LSD and was 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:53.000 fired from Harvard because he turned into a hippie. And um, 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.960 that was pretty much the beginning of the end of LSD. Yeah, 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:01.599 they may have continued to use LSD as treatment for 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.600 mental patients mental illness and depression if not for Timothy Leary, 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.240 who was trying to spread the word about acid. Uh. 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.200 Back to Carry Grant real quick. He was so into it, Josh. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.559 He had a couple of stories written about him in 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.560 nineteen fifty nine and Look magazine the Curious Story behind 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.560 the New Carry Grant gave a glowing account of LSD, 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.679 and then This is the Best the following year the 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.800 Good Housekeeping magazine. It got the Good Housekeeping Seal of 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.640 Approval in the nineteen sixty issue and they called it 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.559 the Secret of Grant's Second Youth. I want to get 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.560 a copy of that magazine. How awesome would that be? Yeah, 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.199 And that's kind of like the theme of this podcast 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:46.199 is so weird that these things were considered incredibly wonderful 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:51.640 and benign um and now they're they're just viewed as 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.440 just so they're evil in their outlaws simply because they 0:12:55.520 --> 0:13:00.840 were made illegal, right prohibited um. And again there's kind 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.439 of a movement toward saying, hey, you know, maybe Timothy 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.679 Leary did give this a bad name, Maybe that that 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:12.560 um underground chemist in Dallas, uh really kind of put 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:14.680 a terrible spread on this, and we should look at 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.199 these again, right. She kind of tell one more story, Yes, 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:21.400 from Hollywood of the nineteen sixties. Esther Williams, famous uh 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.480 diva actress from the MGM studio friend of Carrie Grants 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.320 called Carrie Grant up after these articles and said, hey, 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.520 can you introduce me to your doctor, Dr Hartman. He 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.520 did so. At the time, she was aging, just had 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.800 gone through a divorce, her husband left her with huge 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.800 debt with the I R S. And she was still 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.760 struggling with the death of her sixteen year old brother. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.880 She goes in the office, she takes acid, does her session, 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.280 goes home, to her parents, still on acid, has dinner 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:58.800 with them, and then goes into the bathroom mirror, says 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:00.760 good night to her parents, looks in the mirror, and 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.120 I'm gonna read this quote. I was startled by a 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.800 split image one half of my face. The right half 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.240 was me, the other half was the face of a 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.080 sixteen year old boy. The left side of my upper 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.520 body was flat and muscular. I reached up with my 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.120 boys hand to touch my right breast and felt my 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:22.960 penis stirring. It was a hermaphroditic phantasm. And I understood 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.160 perfectly in that moment. When my brother died, I took 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.960 him into my life so completely he became part of me. Yeah, 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.720 that's a pretty huge thing to understand and pretty jarring 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.200 way to come to terms with that, right. Yeah. But 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.920 that's what they're finding out now, though, is that these 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.160 people are having these breakthroughs in the throes of their 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.440 final days of let's say cancer, and they have these 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.720 epiphanies before we get to that. So LSD is outlawed. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.720 We're following a timeline here. Yes, LSD is outlawed in 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.680 I think st something like that. Um at the very 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.480 at the latest nineteen, they shut down the shop in 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.480 Beverly Hills. Yeah, then Sandoz stopped making it and it 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.040 got it was outlawed and pushed underground. M d m 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.560 A made it until and m d m A story 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.320 is linked very closely to a guy named Dr George 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:18.120 Quarte who is Johns Hopkins researcher. This floored me. So 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:23.040 in about the time, the d e A is reeling 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:28.080 from being caught totally unaware by the crack epidemic. Uh, 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:32.440 and basically a lot of people think looking for a 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:38.720 whipping post um, they they start considering outlawing m d 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.360 m A. At that moment, this guy, Dr George rocquarde 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:48.280 Um publishes a study that he says, this drug deplete 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:54.040 your serotonin levels permanently causing brain damage. Right. Yeah, well 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.320 that that didn't that. So this guy, who was unknown 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.840 at the time, publishes the study starts to get UM 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.320 National Institute of Drug Abuse funding. So basically this is 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:12.160 his job. He starts a career um creating scientific evidence 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.880 in favor of banning drugs leads to the outlaw of 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.720 m d m A. Right that wasn't quite enough, they 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.960 scheduled it. Uh. The FEDS went after m d M 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.840 A even harder, and in two dou two they came 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.600 up with this thing called the Rave Act. It's, um, 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:36.160 what does rave stand for? Reducing Americans vulnerability to ecstasy? 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.920 I wonder how long they sat around looking at the 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.720 word rave, saying we've gotta make it fit, yeah, to 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.280 make it fit yeah. So UM, the the Rave Act 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:50.080 basically said, if you are a club owner and somebody 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.720 gets caught taking ecstasy or has ecstasy at your club, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.320 we're gonna shut down your club. It was a huge, 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:00.680 huge law and it was bolstered by another UM. Another 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.359 study by Dr George roccaride UM that found that he 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.280 tested on ten monkeys is a big one. He injected 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.119 them with m d M A UM, A bunch of 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.760 them went psychotic, some of them UM showed early signs 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.159 of Parkinson's all of a sudden, and two of them 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:22.560 died almost immediately after being injected. So people started asking 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:24.960 questions about this, like, what what are you talking about? 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.080 People have been taking this drug forever and this has 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.760 never happened. So they started kind of going after recording 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:36.240 and UM they found out that he had actually injected 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.160 him with methamphetamine. The first thing that took them off 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:42.280 as he injected him because people were like, well, you 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.679 don't inject ecstasy, so that's kind of a weird way 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.119 to do it. And then they found out it was methamphetamines, 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.640 which he blamed on a mislabeling of a drug shipment 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.320 which they traced back and they went, not the label 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.000 right here. Yeah, the drug providers like, don't blame us, 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:00.159 it's pretty clear. So this is by this time, the 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.199 Rave Act has already passed her and the Rave Act 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.440 didn't get past, but something that included that, um was 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.480 passed by that time. The study that record A produced 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.440 was pretty was published in Science, the journal Science. Like, 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.800 that's as eyebrow as you get as far as scientific journals. Um. 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.159 And finally he gets beaten up enough that he he 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:27.480 prints a full retraction. The Science runs this retraction saying, 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:31.679 the whole the whole study that I produced, just forget 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.280 it ever existed. But that doesn't happen much, No, it doesn't. 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:38.240 That's very unusual the record A, I get the impression 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.240 is kind of this, um, well, it just kind of 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.520 seems like the scientific community views him largely as a 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.800 shill for the government. Yeah. Um, there's a couple of 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.080 articles that he shows up in on a Reason and 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.639 Reason magazines were checking out. Yeah. And you know, the 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.760 other interesting thing about that whole story about the big 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.440 fake study he did with meth amphetamines as to see 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:05.280 is that the Parkinson's Foundation, the people Parkinson's researchers, said, 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.159 I don't think that that's true. That doesn't make much 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.080 sense to us either, that they would show signs of 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.720 Parkinson's right. So they looked into it. People went about 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:18.399 reproducing his study um and the people who run the 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:23.399 Parkinson's Foundation actually issued a statement saying ecstasy does not 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.320 do this, so they basically came out in favor of ecstasy. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.399 It's kind of neat to watch from the outside because 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.040 there's this guy who's again kind of viewed as a 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.359 show for the government, who's beating up on this drug 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.560 that a lot of people who are also in the 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:46.000 scientific community feel is being unfairly outlawed, and so there's 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.120 kind of beating up on him in retaliation. It's kind 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.240 of neat to see eggheads beat up on one another. 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.080 NERD fights and the n I d A. It went 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:55.719 so far that the n I d A just kind 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.240 of quietly pulled their fact sheet on ecstasy, and it 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.600 was like, um, let's just take this down the website. 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.280 After the retraction, we'll rewrite it. I'm sure it's back 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.880 up now as something else. But it doesn't include immediate 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.960 death and Parkinson's disease. I would imagine that's right. So 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:15.080 Timothy Leary dies, he gets shot into space, he's out 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:21.280 of the picture entirely. Everybody gets sick of hippies generally. Um, George, 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.840 record is that, basically the guy who's single handedly getting 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:30.600 ecstasy outlawed, his work comes into great, great question, and 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.720 people start going back and looking at m D m 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.440 A again, and they start looking at LSD again, And 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.919 that's where we find ourselves right now. Slowly but surely, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:43.000 people are starting to run studies on whether or not 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.639 you can use these hallucinogens to treat mental illness. And 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.400 the results are pretty astounding actually, And you know where 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.760 they're leading the charge in Switzerland, in Los Angeles all 0:20:54.800 --> 0:21:00.320 these years later, same place, Yes, hippie freaks. Yeah so yeah, Josh, 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.920 they are I think in Switzerland, uh and solo then 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:11.280 Switzerland they have been experimenting with LSD um psilocybin which 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:15.239 you might know is magic much rooms ketamine you might 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.080 know a special k That kind of surprised me that 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:20.200 that was in there. Yeah, I hadn't heard much about 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.240 that one either. And they're getting these, uh these studies 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:27.359 published in Nature Reviews, Neuroscience, and other you know, leading 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:32.080 industry peer reviewed publications. Yeah, it's not all under the 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:36.280 table back room experiments. Oh no, these are very heavily 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.920 um overseen. You have to be a very legitimate researcher 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.480 to get government approval. They're not funded though still they're 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:46.600 they say they're still having a hard time with funding 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:49.040 and they're just the sort of looking to get some 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.919 restrictions loosened. They're not saying make all this stuff legal, right, 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.320 they're not battling a legalization on the legalization front at all. 0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:58.920 But what they're one of the reason why so many 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:02.280 people are kind of starting to put their reputations on 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:07.040 the line. Um, it's because the results that they're seeing. 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.720 So we have antidepressants, right, Um, they take weeks to 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.000 kick in, they have all sorts of side effects, and 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.280 what they're what we're seeing in these studies now are 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:20.960 that the the things like ketamine uh M, d M 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.760 A l s D are having like a huge impact 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.200 right out of the gate. There's one study, UM that 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.560 came out in July, I believe, UM, and it found 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.680 it was a study of twelve people who were diagnosed 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:37.600 with PTSD post traumatic stress disorder. Yeah, that's one of 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.560 the big ones. Yeah, that's huge at UM. That's where 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.000 you well, it's what we used to call shell shock. 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:46.800 Is you go through traumatic experience and you relive it 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:51.600 over and over again. UM, and it's it's debilitating. UM. 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.120 They found that of the twelve people in this study, 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:59.680 ten of them, after going through the study, UM, after 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.600 take king M d m A no longer met the 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:06.440 criteria to be diagnosed with PTSD afterwards, ten of the twelve. Yeah. 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:08.520 And for my understanding and most of these studies is 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:11.159 it's not like you have to stay on ecstasy your 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:14.160 whole life. Like a lot of people have these epiphanies 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:16.880 and they quit taking it and they have changed their 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:19.919 outlook and that right, Yeah, that's the impression I'm getting to. UM. 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:24.120 Ketamine apparently it's good for depression in the same way. UM, 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.640 just a very tiny dose I can get you over 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:31.240 severe clinical depression. Or that's the results. The early results, 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:35.720 we should say, yeah, um, and everything from quitting smoking, 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:42.119 two suicidal thought, yeah, cluster headaches, Harvard studying. Those are 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:46.040 migraines for men, right, what they call my migraines. I 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:50.080 know they're so debilitating that you consider suicide or you 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:53.159 know not everyone does obviously, but it's just this awful, 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:54.840 awful pain. You can't leave your house, you get to 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:57.160 sit in a dark room, and so it's helping there. 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:00.960 And UM, what I thought was interesting John's Hopkins. You 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:04.040 might have heard of them, a little reputable institutions or 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:08.760 required is from was it they didn't experiment where they 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:13.440 gave psilocybin too emotionally stable individuals like this wasn't even 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:16.200 people that were mentally ill, people that had never taken 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.680 hallucinogens before, which is interesting that you would be. I 0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:21.359 think they had a sixty four year old that signed 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:25.440 up for this. Yeah, it's crazy, and they said sixty 0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:28.399 four and they said the experiment a year later they 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.280 said the experience is one of the most meaningful and 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:35.800 spiritual experiences of their entire lives, and that those were 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:40.240 mentally stable folks and this is a year on it 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:43.919 still had an impact on them. Um, they're also finding 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:49.080 that UH, O, c D and basically mood disorders are 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:54.760