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Speaker 1: Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Affney. The program

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Speaker 1: that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country

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Speaker 1: we love against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to the

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Speaker 1: glory of God and his Kingdom. Well, we're going to

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Speaker 1: be talking about some of those enemies foreign, yes, and domestic,

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Speaker 1: with one of our great contributors to this program. His

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Speaker 1: name is Charles sam Fattis. He is a career intelligence veteran,

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Speaker 1: serving undercover for some twenty years and a lot of

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Speaker 1: very dangerous places. I it has honed his skills as

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Speaker 1: well as his mastery of the business of intelligence, and

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Speaker 1: we wanted to catch up with him as to where

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Speaker 1: we stand with respect to the US intelligence community. Sam

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Speaker 1: is the author, among other books, of Beyond Repair, the

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Speaker 1: Decline and Fall of the CIA, and that's a good

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Speaker 1: point on which to pick up I think, Sam, it's

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Speaker 1: good to have you back. Welcome, my friend.

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Speaker 2: It is great to be here. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of intel reform related stories floating around, Sam.

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Speaker 1: You've been trying to keep abreast of it all, not

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Speaker 1: least what Tulsea Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, has

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Speaker 1: been doing to identify misconduct in fact, criminal behavior she alleges,

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Speaker 1: as well as firing large numbers of personnel from her

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Speaker 1: own organization, and I think kind of weave them out

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Speaker 1: in other parts of the intelligence community. The best enterprise,

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Speaker 1: as you know that it is. Give us a take

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Speaker 1: on this, Sam as to how, first of all, how

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Speaker 1: needed are these kinds of reforms? Second of all, is

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Speaker 1: the enterprise really beyond repair? As you've written, and in

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Speaker 1: particular you wrote it your piece and magazine dot substack

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Speaker 1: dot com of a fellow by the name of mc goneghal,

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Speaker 1: career FBI counter intelligence operative who went bad. Stitch this

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Speaker 1: all together for us.

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Speaker 3: If you would, well, in terms of the broader issue

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Speaker 3: like reforming, fixing, whatever verbage you want to throw on

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Speaker 3: at the IC, the intelligence community critical because you know,

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Speaker 3: what we have here are sort of two separate issues,

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Speaker 3: but as usual they overlap and interact. We have, of course,

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Speaker 3: the issue that I'm sure many viewers of this program are,

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Speaker 3: you know, things that they are focused on, which would

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Speaker 3: be a lot of abuses of power and really unconstitutional

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Speaker 3: actions by folks at senior levels in the IC over

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Speaker 3: the course of what's pretty close to a decade. Now, Okay,

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Speaker 3: that's kind of a big deal when you've got people

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Speaker 3: at the top of the IC who think they now

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Speaker 3: get to decide who can be president and so.

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Speaker 1: Forth, including taking steps to really depose the one elected

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Speaker 1: by the American people.

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Speaker 3: The way I look at it is it's kind of

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Speaker 3: a rolling coup. It began with, you know, way back

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Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen or a little before, we got to

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Speaker 3: keep this guy Trump out of the White House, and

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Speaker 3: then it morphs into we got to get rid of him,

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Speaker 3: we got to topple him. We literally have to stay

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Speaker 3: age a coup onto interfering in the twenty twenty election

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Speaker 3: to stop him from getting I mean, this just goes

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Speaker 3: on and on and on, and it's.

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Speaker 2: Not just a big deal, right.

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Speaker 3: This is you know how much I hate the word existential,

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Speaker 3: but in terms of the Republic, it is existential.

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Speaker 2: If so, she.

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Speaker 3: Obviously is going directly to the heart of that. She's digging,

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Speaker 3: she's gabbardous, she's digging into what really happened and divulging

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Speaker 3: things and putting things out there and naming names, and

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Speaker 3: that's critical. But then there's the second issue, which is,

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Speaker 3: you know, the IC has become so bloated and so

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Speaker 3: inefficient and so filled with individuals who were not, in

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Speaker 3: fact professionals in the practicing of the trade, that it's

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Speaker 3: not doing a very good job of what it's supposed

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Speaker 3: to do. Uh, you know you've got at CIA is

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Speaker 3: no longer run by operators, by OPS officers, by spies op.

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Speaker 3: CIA is run by people who never leave Northern Virginia

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Speaker 3: and never have and you know, not just aren't OPS officers,

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Speaker 3: They aren't analysts either. They aren't professionals in the trade

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Speaker 3: in any sense. They and well, I mean, look at

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Speaker 3: the operational elements of CIA report to a chief operating

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Speaker 3: Officer that Brennan created. I think they've changed the name again,

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Speaker 3: but the position remains the same, Okay, like a corporation.

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Speaker 3: And that COUP is not a career operator. In fact,

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Speaker 3: the first one wasn't even a CIA officer, was brought

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Speaker 3: from Corporate America.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So you have every operational element in CIA answering to

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Speaker 3: a guy who's never done the job in any sense.

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Speaker 3: So she's attacking all of this and and she's you know,

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Speaker 3: she's trying to bring sunlight and tell the truth. McGonagall.

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Speaker 3: McGonagall was an FBI specially career officer He was the

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Speaker 3: head of counter intelligence in the New York Field Office.

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Speaker 3: New York Field Office and FBI is by far the

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Speaker 3: largest field office. The guy who runs counterintelligence there is

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Speaker 3: in effect, pretty close to the country's top spy hunter.

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Speaker 3: This is the guy at the very pinnacle of finding

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Speaker 3: spies in the US government. McGonagall is investigating CEFC China Energy,

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Speaker 3: which is not a real Chinese company. Wasn't It's now

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Speaker 3: out of existence. It was a intelligence front, and he's

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Speaker 3: investigating it. They're bribing, they're working for China, and they're

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Speaker 3: bribing officials all over the world, and they happen to

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Speaker 3: be bribing African officials in the United States. And mcgonagall's

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Speaker 3: guys are investigating. And what do they find. They find

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Speaker 3: that they're also bribing the bidens. In short, they find

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Speaker 3: that they're hint plural. I mean, they're handing the money

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Speaker 3: to Hunter, but Hunter is as Rudy Giuliani says, a

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Speaker 3: bag man. They are handing millions and the only reason

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Speaker 3: they're handing millions of dollars to them is because it's

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Speaker 3: going to Joe and they're buying something from Joe. In short,

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Speaker 3: mcgonagall's guys find that the Chinese are doing with the Bidens,

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Speaker 3: with Joe and Hunter and Biden's brother, exactly what they're

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Speaker 3: doing with foreign officials all over the world, and the

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Speaker 3: template is precisely the same. They know what they're looking at.

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Speaker 3: In the midst of that, McGonagall goes off and meets

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Speaker 3: with an Albanian who works for the Chinese, works for

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Speaker 3: this exact entity, and he takes a quarter of a

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Speaker 3: million dollars in cash. None of this is supposition. McGonagall

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Speaker 3: confessed to all of this and went to prison for

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Speaker 3: all of it. And what happens after he takes the

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Speaker 3: bribe from the Chinese intelligence front company that he's investigating,

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Speaker 3: they charge the Africans and everything in regard to the

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Speaker 3: Biden's going away. So the guy running the investigation into

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Speaker 3: Chinese intelligence takes a bribe from that entity and buries

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Speaker 3: the Biden investigation. But it's not just I mean, he's

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Speaker 3: not the only guy who knows this, right, there are

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Speaker 3: other people involved. The FBI as a whole buries this

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Speaker 3: to the point where when they prosecute the albeit the

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Speaker 3: Africans and they have to introduce transcripts of phone taps

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Speaker 3: and so forth. They go through and methodically redact blackout

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Speaker 3: all references to the bidens that, of course are throughout it.

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Speaker 2: So and then the society.

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Speaker 1: Let me ignores for a second, because I want to

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Speaker 1: press on a particular point here. To my knowledge, you

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Speaker 1: more than anybody who has the kind of chops that

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Speaker 1: you do, especially very clear and very vocal about what

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Speaker 1: a threat it was to our country to have in

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Speaker 1: the president of the United States what you called on

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Speaker 1: this program, among other places, I think, a quote controlled

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Speaker 1: asset of the Chinese Communist Party, namely Joe Biden president.

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Speaker 1: And you're telling me that the counterintelligence apparatus of the

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Speaker 1: United States at the highest levels was not only not

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Speaker 1: prosecuting that case, but was actively suppressing information about it.

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Speaker 3: That is precisely, precisely what I'm saying. And again McGonagall

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Speaker 3: went to prison. But you've got to have dozens and

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Speaker 3: dozens and dozens of other individuals who knew all.

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Speaker 1: Of this as yet non prosecuted conspirators. We have to

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Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be right back with more with Sampattis.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned, We're back, so is Sam Fattis. Praise the Lord.

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Speaker 1: We're delighted always to have his visits but especially well,

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Speaker 1: as the Bible says, at a time such as this, Sam,

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Speaker 1: you were sharing with us egregious problems with the US

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Speaker 1: intelligence community efforts on his part to overthrow the government

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Speaker 1: of the United States, for example, and to conceal information

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Speaker 1: that a president has been compromised by our mortal enemy,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party. I want to move from sort

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Speaker 1: of the rear view mirror to what's now before us.

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Speaker 1: And there is a chap as you know, by the

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Speaker 1: name of Zorn Mamdani who I spoke recently with Robert

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Speaker 1: Spencer about. He's written a new book about what he

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Speaker 1: calls the Intifada on the Hudson that is now coming.

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Speaker 1: If Mamdani, as is widely expected, succeeds having obtained the

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Speaker 1: Democratic nomination to be the next mayor of the City

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Speaker 1: of New York, actually becomes the next mayor of the

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Speaker 1: City of New York. And I want it. You've been

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Speaker 1: writing about it in your Wonderful End magazine outlet at

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Speaker 1: substack dot com for a time now. But Robert Spencer says,

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Speaker 1: this guy is an out and outright communist point one

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Speaker 1: and point two. He's not just a convert to Islam.

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Speaker 1: He is what is known as a twelver of the

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Speaker 1: Shia tradition, and Sam, in your last duty station, you

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Speaker 1: were responsible for trying to protect the country from weapons

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Speaker 1: of mass destruction enabled terrorism. And I asked Robert at

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Speaker 1: the end of our conversation, you know, if you have

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Speaker 1: a twelver, to say nothing of a communist twelver running

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Speaker 1: New York City, even if he's not directly involved in

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Speaker 1: a plot to destroy it, which has been an ambition

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Speaker 1: of the other twelvevers predominantly in the guy's running Iran,

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Speaker 1: might that be a problem, he seemed to think. So

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Speaker 1: how about you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's the understatement of the year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think Americans have a hard time

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Speaker 3: getting their heads around this kind of concept, Frank, because

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Speaker 3: by and large, we live in a society where I'm

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Speaker 3: a Protestant, you're a Catholic, you're a Baptist, I'm a Methodist,

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Speaker 3: and we believe what we believe, and we all get

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Speaker 3: along and we go to different churches or we go

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Speaker 3: to synagogue whatever. And of course that's not what we're

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Speaker 3: talking about here. We're talking when you talk about the

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Speaker 3: twelve verse, you're not that particular brand. If you will

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Speaker 3: of Shia Islam. This is not a go along, get

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Speaker 3: along a different kind of things. That's not at all

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Speaker 3: what we're talking about in the worldview is so alien

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Speaker 3: that I do think most Americas just have a really

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Speaker 3: hard time understanding it. No, I mean, the belief here is,

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Speaker 3: of course, these are the guys that believe in the Mahdi,

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Speaker 3: who's a I guess he's fifteen hundred years old, now

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Speaker 3: give or take a few years. At Imam, who lives

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Speaker 3: at the bottom of a well somehow in Iran and

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Speaker 3: will ride his horse up out of the well and

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Speaker 3: lead them to victory.

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Speaker 2: And as you.

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Speaker 1: May know, Sam actually created a super highway from the

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Speaker 1: well to Tehran to speed him on his way.

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Speaker 3: There are hotels where you can go and stay and

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Speaker 3: have a view of the well in the hope that

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Speaker 3: you will be there there, right out there. So I mean,

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Speaker 3: as silly as that sounds, I cite that because that's.

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Speaker 2: How real this is to these people.

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Speaker 3: This is not a comic book, it's not a fairy tale,

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Speaker 3: it's not a metaphor.

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Speaker 1: And when and that it's going to happen on their watch,

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Speaker 1: and it's going.

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Speaker 3: To happen on their watch. It's going to happen like now.

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Speaker 3: And in fact, the way this has to happen is

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Speaker 3: with to use the Christian term armageddon, the apocalypse, whatever verbage,

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Speaker 3: you know, the the the final cataclysmic battle. And in

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Speaker 3: that battle, everybody who's not on the right side i e.

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Speaker 3: Their side in terms of belief dies horribly and they

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Speaker 3: emerge victorious and rule the earth. And that's literal. So

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Speaker 3: that's the faith that this guy believes in. You know,

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Speaker 3: you can't sugarcoat that, you can't pretend it's not true.

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Speaker 3: And this is one of the issues we always have

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Speaker 3: with people when we're talking to the Iranians, right, and

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Speaker 3: you're trying to negotiate with the Iranians. Of course they

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Speaker 3: are twelver vers. I mean, the folks that are in

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Speaker 3: charge are twelvers.

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Speaker 2: Is you're assuming they.

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Speaker 3: Want to coexist and they want peace and they want

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Speaker 3: us to all do our own thing, and that's not

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Speaker 3: what they want, and.

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Speaker 1: They don't want nuclear weapons with which to bring about that.

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Speaker 3: And of course they definitely don't want nuclear weapons when

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Speaker 3: in fact, obviously nuclear weapons would be a critical element

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Speaker 3: of creating the cataclysm that they want. In fact, they

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Speaker 3: want to create the cataclysm so that's what you're you're

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Speaker 3: talking about here, and this guy is that's his faith.

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Speaker 1: That's okay. So let me just a fine point on this.

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Speaker 1: Your business at the end of your distinguished career at

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Speaker 1: the Central Intelligence Agency was preventing precisely this kind of

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Speaker 1: threat from eventuating inside our country. Would you say, as

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Speaker 1: a matter of professional opinion, that it is a mortal

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Speaker 1: peril to have an individual with these certain proclivities, shall

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Speaker 1: we say, in charge of security, for example, among other things,

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Speaker 1: in a city like that of New York.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, without without question, you're talking about somebody who believes

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Speaker 3: in bringing on the end of the world so that

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Speaker 3: his faith can then reign supreme. That's not an abstract

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Speaker 3: that's a that isn't that is the essence of the faith.

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Speaker 3: So you think this guy, if that's what he believes

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Speaker 3: and that's his.

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Speaker 2: God, if you will you think he's going to now.

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Speaker 3: Protect the city or tolerate other faiths. Why would you

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Speaker 3: think that he's telling you straight up what he believes.

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Speaker 1: Well, probably not quite as many words, but shame on

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Speaker 1: us if we don't understand that that's where he's coming from.

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Speaker 1: And what are his team?

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Speaker 3: Well, and you're deliberately ignoring it. Look, if the man

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Speaker 3: belonged to a church which believed that white people were

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Speaker 3: supreme and all other ethnic groups were subhuman and should

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Speaker 3: be exterminated.

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Speaker 2: Would you ignore that? You wouldn't ignore that.

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Speaker 3: I think it gives us a clue what he's going

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 1: We must not ignore this reality either. Thank you, as always,

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Speaker 1: my friend. I just I so appreciate your clarity on

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Speaker 1: these kinds of points, because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: there will be people, and unfortunately, it appears that includes

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Speaker 1: the senior leadership of the Democratic Party, from Barack Obama

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Speaker 1: on down, who have explicitly, in many cases, in other

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Speaker 1: cases sort of implicitly thrown in with this guy and

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Speaker 1: will be supporting his candidacy and seeking his election to

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Speaker 1: this extraordinarily sensitive position. This guy seems to me to

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Speaker 1: be a good candidate for prosecution, not for election, and

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Speaker 1: I hope that Robert Spencer's new book Intofada on the Hudson,

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Speaker 1: which will shortly be available online pre order as well

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Speaker 1: as purchase, will help prevent that from happening as well.

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Speaker 1: I hope your remarks as well. Sam. Let me pivot

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Speaker 1: to one last topic with you, my friend, he had

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Speaker 1: a wonderful piece about the orcs coming for Robert F.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy Junior, now the Secretary of the Apartment of Health

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Speaker 1: and Human Services. Talk us through what you mean by

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Speaker 1: that analogy of course to Lord of the Rings and

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Speaker 1: what's coming next quickly?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, obviously, obviously I've exposed myself as a as

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Speaker 3: a closet Tolkien fan.

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Speaker 2: And look, I mean, what's what's R. Fk Junior's crime?

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Speaker 3: His his crime is the is threatening the profits of

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Speaker 3: big Pharma and they and they're making vast, vast, vast

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Speaker 3: sums of money off this this vaccine industry and specifically

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Speaker 3: vaccines that they're justifying based on COVID and that they

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Speaker 3: managed to get the government to get them immunity on.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 3: So the politicians that are after him are the ones

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Speaker 3: that work for and are owned by Big.

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Speaker 1: Farm owned is the operative words time, pattis we have

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Speaker 1: to leave it at that. Thank you, my friend, for

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Speaker 1: your great work at End magazine, among other services you

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Speaker 1: continue to render to work. Queen coming here come back soon.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned, folks, we'll be right back with more. Welcome back,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to be talking with one of our

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Speaker 1: favorite guests about an extraordinary development in the past few days,

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Speaker 1: and I want to give you a little context for it.

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Speaker 1: Here we go. In a nomination hearing last week, Riley

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Speaker 1: Barnes cited former Senator and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, quote,

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Speaker 1: we are a nation founded on a powerful principle that

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Speaker 1: all men are created equal, because our rights come from God,

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Speaker 1: our Creator, not from our laws, not from our governments unquote.

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Speaker 1: Democratic Senator Tim Kaine, evidently unaware that this sprinds will

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Speaker 1: was explicitly enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, found that

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Speaker 1: statement extremely troubling. He declared, quote the notion that rights

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Speaker 1: don't come from laws and don't come from the government,

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Speaker 1: but come from the Creator. That's what the Iranian government

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Speaker 1: believes unquote. Yesterday, President Trump sharply repudiated Kane, saying, quote

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Speaker 1: he should be ashamed of himself. He vowed, quote under

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration, we're defending our rights and restoring our

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Speaker 1: identity as a nation under God. We are one nation

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Speaker 1: under God, and we always will be unquote. Amen. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's take stock with all of this with our friend

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Speaker 1: Rod Martin, a man of profound faith. He's been a

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Speaker 1: leader of the Southern Baptist Convention for many years. He

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Speaker 1: is also one of the great free range public intellectuals

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Speaker 1: of our time. Chairman of the board of our Institute

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Speaker 1: for the American Future, I'm proud to say, as well

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Speaker 1: as a regular contributor to this program, you can follow

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Speaker 1: his writings and great thinking on the Rod Martin Report

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Speaker 1: at Rodmartin dot org, and I strongly commend you subscribe

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Speaker 1: to it. Rod. Welcome back, my friend. It's good to

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Speaker 1: have you with us.

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Speaker 4: Great to be here, I.

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Speaker 1: Want to say, especially at a time such as this,

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Speaker 1: what do you make of this well apparent contretemps with

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Speaker 1: Tim Kin? And Donald Trump was holding forth about it

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Speaker 1: at the Museum of the Bible yesterday as we're speaking,

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Speaker 1: and he not only took Cain to task handsomely, but

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Speaker 1: he also made the pretty impressive case for the kinds

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Speaker 1: of things that he's been doing too well, do precisely

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Speaker 1: what he talked about shoring up this as a nation

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Speaker 1: under God. And I wanted to get your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: that as well.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 5: You were exactly right that Kine ought to be ashamed,

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Speaker 5: but he isn't, and he isn't going to be and

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Speaker 5: it wasn't ignorance. He knows what's in the declaration. It's

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Speaker 5: his worldview, and more precisely, it is the Marxist worldview.

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Speaker 5: The Democrats have been telling you now for quite some

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Speaker 5: time that they are socialists. Once upon a time that

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Speaker 5: was an epithet and they denied it vociferously. But as

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Speaker 5: we know, the DNC had to cheat Bernie Sanders to

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Speaker 5: keep him from getting the nomination in twenty sixteen, AOC

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Speaker 5: is a likely future presidential nominee of this party. They

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Speaker 5: fully embrace socialism. They're as plain as day. So what

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Speaker 5: does that mean. Well, in our conception of things, rights

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Speaker 5: come from the Creator, whether you believe in the Creator

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Speaker 5: or not, and I absolutely but it doesn't matter because

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Speaker 5: even if it's a theoretical abstraction, what it means is

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Speaker 5: that rights precede government, that government exists to enforce and

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Speaker 5: protect our rights, and that government does not have a

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Speaker 5: right to alter them or remove them. The socialist view

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Speaker 5: is exactly the opposite, that everything we have proceeds from government,

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Speaker 5: that the government may take anything we have away at

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Speaker 5: any time, our life, our liberty, our property. So Tim

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Speaker 5: Kaine is just saying what his party has embraced.

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Speaker 4: And that's the.

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Speaker 5: Real battle in America today. It's not ours versus D's.

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Speaker 5: It's two absolutely distinct worldviews in combat and only one

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Speaker 5: can win. So, you know, that's what we're finding. Do

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Speaker 5: you really have rights at all? Or do you only

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Speaker 5: have the rights Tim Kaine says you have so long

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Speaker 5: as he decides you may have them?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Rod, what do you say in response to

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Speaker 1: this suggestion that people who hold such views about our

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Speaker 1: rights coming from our creator and being unalienable are actually

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Speaker 1: really just well like those Iranian mullas who have a

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Speaker 1: similar view of you know, theocratic regimen for their country, Well.

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Speaker 5: The irony is rich because the Ayatollah doesn't believe we

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Speaker 5: have any of those rights. Aatula is a dictator who

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Speaker 5: just absolutely embodies Tim Kane's vision of the world, just

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Speaker 5: you know, the details differ, but the absolutism of his

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Speaker 5: theocratic state. And by theocratic we don't really mean Allah

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Speaker 5: is the king of Iran. We mean the Ayatollah is

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Speaker 5: the king of Iran. And that's exactly how all all

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Speaker 5: of these societies have worked all through history. The king

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Speaker 5: is the law rex lex and that's exactly what our

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Speaker 5: English forebears repudiated with Samuel Rutherford and others. Of course,

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Speaker 5: Rutherford wrote lex Rex, the law is king, and that's

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Speaker 5: the founding principle of America, that we are all subject

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Speaker 5: to law, and that law ultimately derives from the rights

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Speaker 5: God has given us that government may not infringe and

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Speaker 5: must enforce and protect.

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Speaker 1: And so Rod, this brings me to that litany that

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Speaker 1: the President laid out. You know, he is seriously pursuing

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Speaker 1: the restoration of you know, the protection of our First

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Speaker 1: Amendment freedoms, and particularly the first of those, the freedom

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Speaker 1: of religion. And I must say, I listening to him,

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Speaker 1: you know, deliver a litany of initiatives to that end,

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Speaker 1: I was so gratified, and you know, thankful, truly thankful

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Speaker 1: to God that he is in fact the man running

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Speaker 1: things and not the alternative, which pretty much was indistinguishable,

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Speaker 1: wasn't it from the Canian approach. I want to turn

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Speaker 1: to a different topic, though, before we run out of time.

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Speaker 1: You've written at your Rodmartin dot org site, a very

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Speaker 1: important piece about something else that the Democrats have been

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Speaker 1: up to which sounds to me like well criminal activity.

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Speaker 1: It's called Act Blue. Tell us what that is? And

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Speaker 1: what we now know about it and what might come

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Speaker 1: of the investigations into it.

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Speaker 5: Act Blue is the single most important fundraising component of

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Speaker 5: the Democrat ecosystem. They have raised over seventeen and a

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Speaker 5: half billion dollars for Democrat candidates and causes.

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Speaker 4: It's an online.

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Speaker 5: Service that has powered the Democratic cause for a very

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Speaker 5: long time.

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Speaker 4: And yes, corrupt as can be.

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Speaker 5: So we have a formal DOJ criminal investigation against them. Now,

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Speaker 5: we have multiple hearings in congressional committees, three just in

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Speaker 5: the House, and we've got nineteen state attorneys general investigating them.

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Speaker 5: And here's basically what they did. They reduced their fraud

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Speaker 5: prevention measures to such a ridiculously low level that absolutely

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Speaker 5: anybody could be sending money and they would never catch it.

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Speaker 4: Now, I mean, these are.

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Speaker 1: Free sending money even from overseas.

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Speaker 5: Right, especially from overseas, and it's just egregious. You know,

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Speaker 5: these are fraud prevention measures that are routine on Amazon,

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Speaker 5: on Substack for that matter, on Etsy or eBay.

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Speaker 4: But not on act blue. Oh goodness.

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Speaker 5: No, they don't even take a CCV code, they don't

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Speaker 5: do anything to verify. So there are specific cases that

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Speaker 5: have been found over a thousand cases in which a

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Speaker 5: single straw donor somebody frequently on a fixed income elderly

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Speaker 5: doesn't have a lot of money, and they'll have given

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Speaker 5: Act Blue two.

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Speaker 4: Hundred four hundred, five.

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Speaker 5: Hundred thousand dollars in small increments over a period of

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Speaker 5: a few weeks. Well, that's not real. That's obviously fraudulent,

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Speaker 5: and it's something that Act Blue would have caught if

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Speaker 5: they wanted to catch it. What they're getting, of course,

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Speaker 5: is Chinese money and other illegal money, and it's got

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00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 5: to stop.

434
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: And rod to the extent that this money is being

435
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: plowed into the Democratic Party's coffers effectively, if not as

436
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:06,239
Speaker 1: a then as a parallel, as you say, ecosystem, who

437
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: has been benefiting from this large esse and to what effect, Oh.

438
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 5: Goodness, the entire Democrat ecosystem has been benefiting, because, as

439
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 5: I said, this.

440
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: Is meaning candidates for elective.

441
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 5: Office, candidates, but also causes, because ActBlue is in service

442
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 5: of that entire range of things. So whatever the Democrat

443
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 5: equivalent is of the Institute for the American Future is

444
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 5: as likely to be benefiting as Tim Kaine. And we

445
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 5: don't know how high up the Democrat food chain the

446
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 5: corruption goes, but we know where the benefits go. And

447
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 5: this is just one piece among oh so many. We

448
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 5: know about the two billion dollars that the EPA granted

449
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 5: out to trace Stacy Abrams for Heaven's sake, for a

450
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 5: brand new nonprofit that has never taken in any money,

451
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 5: and it's just going to go do Democrat stuff corruptly

452
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 5: with its five oh one c three. You've got USAID

453
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 5: that is using its budget three times the size of

454
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 5: the CIA to go out and overthrow governments and sterilize

455
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 5: three hundred thousand Native women in Peru and all these

456
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 5: transgender programs they had all over the world. These are

457
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 5: slush funds, and there are so many of these slush

458
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 5: funds it's hard to wrap your brain around it. But

459
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 5: Act Blue is one piece of it that actually has

460
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 5: criminal ramifications and there could actually be major Democrats who

461
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 5: go to jail over this.

462
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: Let us hope if they deserve to, they do. Rod Martin,

463
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: I know you will be on the case helping explicates

464
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: its consequences. It's not just you know the news on it.

465
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: I look forward to talking with you about it, and

466
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: thank you for giving us this introduction to Act Blue

467
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: and criminal conduct that appears to be associated with it.

468
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: Come back to us soon, sir. In the meantime, keep

469
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: up the great work at Rodmartin dot Org. Stay two

470
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: and folks will be right back with more. Welcome back,

471
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: and what a delight to be able to say welcome

472
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: once again to one of our favorite contributors to this program.

473
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 1: His name is doctor David Wormser. He generally addresses with

474
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: US issues involving a part of the world in which

475
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: he is arguably one of the pre eminent experts in

476
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: our country, namely the Middle East. His expertise has been

477
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: sufficiently valued that he has been a senior advisor to

478
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: an under Secretary of State and National Security Advisor and

479
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: Vice President of the United States. He is also a

480
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: naval intelligence officer training, now retired as a lieutenant commander.

481
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: He has been for some time as well, the senior

482
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: analyst responsible for the MIDIS programs at the Center for

483
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: Security Policy. David, Welcome back. It's so good to have

484
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: you with us, my friend. Thanks for having me well.

485
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: As we are speaking, there is breaking news that Israel

486
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: has done it again. They have reached out and touched

487
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: some of its enemies in Cutter Safe Haven. To this

488
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: point for Hamas and other bad actors. This is a

489
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: strike that the preliminary reports are still coming in, and

490
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: I'm very anxious to get your take on both who

491
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: was hit, with what effect and what are the implications

492
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: as you see it, both perhaps for Hamas and for

493
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: this conflict with Israel.

494
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 6: Sure, so let's first what happened was Qatar is one thousand,

495
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 6: eight hundred plus miles away from Israel, so this is

496
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 6: actually a distance comparable, if not slightly larger than many

497
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 6: targets in Iran. And has to remember, the airspace of

498
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 6: Qatar is essentially extension of the Iranian airspace, So once

499
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 6: again the Israelis are operating with impunity over the airspace

500
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 6: of Iran. And how they got there would either have

501
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 6: to have been over Saudi Arabia or over Iraq and Iran,

502
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 6: so one can only imagine the strategic questions there if

503
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 6: they came over Iraq Iran. Again, it shows how with

504
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 6: impunity they navigate over that air and if it's over

505
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 6: Saudi Arabia attests to some very serious strategic coordination between

506
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 6: Israel and Saudi Arabia, which also is a major strategic event.

507
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 6: Now who has been killed, it was a meeting of

508
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 6: the top leadership, the top leadership of Ramas Abroad, which

509
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 6: is the top leadership of Ramas. The people killed were

510
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 6: Khalil al Haya, who is nominally he was the same

511
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 6: position as Yaji Sinowar, the head of Ramas Gaza. The

512
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 6: second one is Zuhar Jabarin, who is head of Hamas

513
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 6: West Bank, so he's the guy who does all these operations,

514
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 6: including yesterday's suicide attack that killed six Israelis. Then there's

515
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 6: Nizar Awadala, who's one of the top five leaders of Haramas.

516
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 6: He is one of the main figures in the polit

517
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 6: bureau of Hamas in Qatar. Then there's Razi Khaled as

518
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 6: a military commander, and then Hahaled Michal was to have

519
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 6: been at the meeting. We do not have confirmation that

520
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 6: he has been killed, although the Saudis are reporting that

521
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 6: he has been killed. The Israelis are simply not yet

522
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 6: confirming it, nor are the Kataris. But it's quite possible

523
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 6: that hahalad Micheal, the head the number one of Hamas,

524
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 6: has been killed.

525
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: So that's what happened, and Israel Is confirming that or

526
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: Cutter is the deaths of the others that you've mentioned.

527
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 6: Yes, those are confirmed.

528
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: An extraordinary thing, and it speaks to something that you

529
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: talked about in a very important webinar of our Committee

530
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: on the Present Danger of China last Friday, David, which

531
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 1: is the well, the Israeli way of war, one might

532
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: say that has been perfected in succession and well Lebanon

533
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: and Hamas quarters in Gaza, of course, in Iran, and

534
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: now in both the Huthi capital in Yemen and in Cutter,

535
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: to the extent that the action took place in Cutter.

536
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: Is there any indication how the US government has felt about.

537
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 6: It, Well, I'm not sure how they felt about it,

538
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 6: but they were told ahead of time and they approved

539
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 6: ahead of time, which they gave the green light. So

540
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 6: I would assume that this was a decision made by

541
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 6: President Trump himself, that he's lost patience with the Qatari

542
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 6: government over its behavior towards the Hamas, the hostage situation,

543
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 6: and so forth. So I think this indicates a major

544
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 6: shift by the United States, not only by Israel. And

545
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 6: by the way, if the planes came over Saudi Arabia,

546
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 6: that also would most likely involve American approval.

547
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: Well, and as you said, certainly Saudi approval. And yes,

548
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: it's you know, David, you often talk about tectonic shifts

549
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: in the region. Would seem to be, you know, a

550
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: magnitude seven or eight set shift. And I can't express

551
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: adequately my admiration for Prime Minister Natamnef who taking this step,

552
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: and for all of those who made it possible. This

553
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: is I presume going to prove to be a critical

554
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: you know, help to finishing off Hamas in Gaza as well,

555
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: and I wanted to talk with you a little bit

556
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: about that next. There is, as we're speaking, evidently a

557
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,959
Speaker 1: bit of a row going on between Prime Minister Netanyahu

558
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: and the leader of the Israel Defense Forces. That is,

559
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: as I understand it, this question of whether or not

560
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: too well finish the job in Gaza. Can you give

561
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: us a quick start on a longer conversation we'll have

562
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: after a short break here in a minute.

563
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 6: Well, it's something that matters also for the United States,

564
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 6: because I think we have the same problem here with

565
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 6: our military, which is that there's an ethos that has

566
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 6: infested the military over the last three four decades that

567
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 6: even the replacing of the chief of staff has done

568
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 6: nothing to really fix and that ethos is always to negotiate.

569
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 6: There's no military solution to anything. You always have to negotiate.

570
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 6: The military is only there for pressure and leverage. It's

571
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 6: not actually a solution to anything. Root problems, root causes

572
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 6: have to be addressed to solve root problems, and so

573
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 6: on and so forth. So the Israeli military is still

574
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 6: under the impression that a negotiated settlement with Kamas is

575
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 6: the only way to solve this not full victory and

576
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 6: occupation of Gaza, and that is a tension between the

577
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 6: political leadership and the military leadership, and it expresses itself

578
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 6: all the.

579
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: Time, and to the extent that we're let me stop,

580
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: We've got to take a break. We'll be right back

581
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: with David worms right after that station. Welcome back. David

582
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: Warmser and I are talking about very very significant developments

583
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: in the Middle East in the context of what is

584
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: next in the war against Hamas in Gaza, with a

585
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: very very important development in a strike against the Hamas

586
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: leadership that has operated with impunity from cutter waging the

587
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: war remotely and continuing it with the help of their hosts,

588
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: the Katari regime, As, by the way, have essentially all

589
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: of the other jihadists in the world, especially the terrorists

590
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: branded ones, they've all benefited from the Katari largesse that

591
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: has made Sharia supremacism a viable thing from Turkey and

592
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 1: Iran to our own shores right here in the United

593
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: States for that matter. David, So you've indicated that the

594
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: difference between Benjamin Echinahu and the Chief of Staff of

595
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: the Israel Defense Forces is fundamentally over this question of

596
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: whether or not there can be a military solution and

597
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: gaza that would entail the physical destruction of the Hamas

598
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: enterprise what's left of it, at least including its infrastructure,

599
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: underground tunnels and the like, with the possibility that hostages

600
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: that are still in the hands of Hamas, a dwindling

601
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: number of whom are still believed to be alive, maybe

602
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: twenty of them, I think, could you know, lose their

603
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: lives in the course of this final assault, but that

604
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: that's what's necessary under the circumstances. Could you walk through this,

605
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 1: you know, very very obviously wrenching issue and how it's

606
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: sorting out in Israel politically as well as strategically.

607
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 6: Sure, well, obviously there's a whole camp that is against

608
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 6: Natonal that's been using the hostage issue to bring him down.

609
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 1: So they will.

610
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 6: Take whatever position is necessary to embarrass him, whether it's

611
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 6: if he goes for a full deal only they'll say, well,

612
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 6: if you can get a partial deal, you need to

613
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 6: go for it. But the moment he goes for a

614
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 6: partial deal, why aren't you asking for everybody? So there's

615
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 6: an opposition which we can set aside for a moment

616
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 6: because that's just what they do. But there's a real

617
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 6: question here whether there's not a false dichotomy here between

618
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 6: Israel going on the aggressive offensive and the lives of

619
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 6: the hostages. It may be that an operation like this

620
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 6: in Qatar, as well as the Israeli ground defensive, will

621
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 6: lead to a hopelessness among some of the captive holders,

622
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 6: and that they may just give up or decide to

623
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 6: save themselves.

624
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 4: Now that it's certain.

625
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 6: That Israel will will go all the way, the more

626
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 6: certain they are that Israel will win and be there

627
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 6: be over their heads soon, the more likely you're going

628
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,879
Speaker 6: to see some of them cut a deal to give

629
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 6: up the hostages. So I actually think that the military

630
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 6: pressure is the most likely way to get hostages out

631
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 6: at this point. Even though it will risk some but

632
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 6: the idea that all of them will come home alive.

633
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 6: I think Hamas has no intention of doing that. It's

634
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 6: their life insurance policy. And as a result, the idea

635
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 6: that you can keep negotiating and keep negotiating, in the end,

636
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 6: you're going to negotiate for one or two living semi

637
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 6: corpses and all the rest will be dead. It's really

638
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 6: come to me.

639
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: And at the price, David, the demands that still are

640
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: reflected in the latest offering, as I understand it, are

641
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: exorbitant in terms of release of terrorists from Israeli prisons,

642
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: in terms of relinquishing the territory that has been taken

643
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: by Israel and rid of Hamas and and enabling them

644
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: to come back. If that's is it your assessment, David,

645
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,959
Speaker 1: that with this strike, that all of that is now

646
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: essentially irrelevant, that that option is simply not going to

647
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: be pursued any further, or is it going to be

648
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 1: pursued with intensified further do you think?

649
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 6: I hope it's off the table. I hope that the

650
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 6: Israelis simply have an ultimatum, which is just give them up,

651
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 6: no conditions, full surrender and full surrender like what we

652
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 6: imposed on Japan and Germany at the end of the war.

653
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 6: This is no longer should be a negotiation where Israel

654
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 6: has to give up to get This is.

655
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: Now a point now.

656
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 6: If that's what the terms are going forward, fine, But

657
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 6: my fear is that there's still too much residual hope

658
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 6: that you can negotiate with Kramas to get rid of

659
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 6: to get rid of Ramas in the end, but to

660
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 6: get the hostages back in the meantime. But you have

661
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 6: to give them something to give it up. And I

662
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 6: think every time Israel does that, it reinforces the idea

663
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 6: in Hamas that Israel's not willing to go all the way,

664
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 6: which actually decreases the ability for Israel to get all

665
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 6: the hostages or getting there.

666
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: And David, I think you've made this point here before,

667
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: but just to reiterate it, is it your view that

668
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: anything short of the decisive defeat, the unconditional surrender not

669
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: just of the hostages but of Hamas units, the dead

670
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: enders that are left, will be construed by Hamas and

671
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: others in the region as a victory.

672
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,919
Speaker 6: It will be in the a validation for the entire

673
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 6: strategy of taking hostages. So we can't just think of

674
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 6: the cost to the hostages that are currently held, what

675
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 6: about the hundreds of hostages that will be taken American, Israeli, European.

676
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: Hostages, countless others. It works, Yeah, David, I take this

677
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: point and I think it's absolutely the core of how

678
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: we have to look at this. And I understand that

679
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: the Trump administration is making known that it is reverting

680
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: to our historic policy that we don't negotiate over hostages.

681
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: Tuck more generally, if you could in a forty five

682
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: seconds here, David, about where the US government seems to

683
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: be having green lighted this striking cutter.

684
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 6: Well, Trump essentially put forth an ultimatum, but it was

685
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 6: again an ultimatum that also the Israelis would have to

686
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 6: give something in order to get the hostages. I think

687
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 6: that that ultimatum ran out, which green lighted this operation.

688
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 6: But I'm still not sure whether the administration didn't agree

689
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 6: to this operation in order to again go back and

690
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 6: see did that work. Will hamask give in And that's

691
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 6: a problem still. But overall, this is a major shift

692
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 6: in American policy toward Qatar, which is the funder of

693
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 6: Western terrorism and anti Semitism and radicalism.

694
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: It's a huge and I think very positive development. David

695
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 1: and I thank you so much for taking the time

696
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: to catch us up on it. We'll look forward to

697
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: your further reporting in the days to come. God bless

698
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: you my friend. Folks, we have to leave it at that.

699
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 1: Come back to us next time, if you would, Until

700
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: they go forth and multiply