1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: We differ politically, just like every other group difference politically. 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Nobody asks the same questions of the Irish nobody as 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: the same questions of the German Americans and the Jewish population. 4 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 2: Whatever. 5 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: You know, there's going to be differences. Political is not 6 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: the way to judge who we are. 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 3: From Futuro Media and PRX, it's Latino USA. I'm Maria 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 3: Josa today a conversation with author Marie Arana on her 9 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 3: latest work. It's called Latino Land, a book that helps 10 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 3: us understand the past, present and future of Latinos and 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 3: Latinas in this country. Lovely, that's journalist, editor, and author 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 3: Marie Arana. 13 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: Ah, let's see in a long time Chica. 14 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 3: She's Ruvian American Chaparta, just like me, and as a 15 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 3: fellow Latina journalist, she and I have a natural connection. 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 3: But the truth is I haven't seen her face to 17 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 3: face in real life for about a decade. 18 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: Look exactly the same. You want to feel it better 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: other than ever, it's she. 20 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 4: Didn't like that. 21 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 3: I know it's rainy outside today, but we're cozying up 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 3: in our warm Futuro Media offices right here in Harlem, 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 3: New York City. In fact, Marie traveled from her home 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 3: in Washington, d C. Just to be here with me 25 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 3: and my team. You have fans here in this room. 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: Oh thank you. So wonderful to meet you guys. Read 27 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: your America Liberator US. 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 3: Marie's work has inspired generations of readers, including myself. She's 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 3: written and edited at The Washington Post, worked at publishing 30 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 3: houses like Simon and Schuster, and she served as the 31 00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: inaugural literary director at the Library of Congress. Marie has 32 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: written two fiction books that take place in Peru. She's 33 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 3: also written a memoir called American Chica, Two Worlds, One Childhood, 34 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 3: and she's written a biography about Simon Bolivad along with 35 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 3: a history of Latin America. Now, Marie has released one 36 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 3: of her biggest projects yet. The book is called Latino Land, 37 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 3: a portrait of America's largest and least understood minority Today. 38 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: Marie joins me to dig into how complex and wide 39 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 3: ranging LATINX Latine, Latino and Latina identities really are across 40 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 3: our country. She illuminates some of our political history in 41 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 3: the US, including some things I bet you didn't know about. 42 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: So let's dive in. And first, dear listener, well, yes, 43 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 3: we're going to have to talk some politics. Welcome back 44 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 3: to do you know Usa, Marie Rana, Oh my god, 45 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: it's such a pleasure, Maria Keusta. So I'm going to 46 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 3: take you back to twenty nineteen. Yes, you wrote a 47 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 3: piece and you said that things at that time had 48 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 3: never looked bleaker in terms of anti Latino and Latina sentiment. 49 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 3: But then you wrote that you were reminded that hate 50 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 3: has always been a part of the United States right. 51 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: You wrote that ten years into the Declaration of Independence, 52 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 3: Thomas Jefferson actually expressed that the United States should snatch 53 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: up Latin America. 54 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: Piece by piece, bide piece. 55 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: John Adams called Latin Americans ignorant, superstitious people that he 56 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 3: didn't want in the United States. And then here we 57 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 3: are moving into twenty twenty five now and we're seeing 58 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: that modern version of this hate right, and obviously we're 59 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 3: also looking at many Latinos and Latinas who voted for 60 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 3: this kind of ideology, this kind of sense. How are 61 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 3: you understanding what happened and how we need to move 62 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: into twenty twenty five with this informa. This is a 63 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,839 Speaker 3: very racist country, as we all know. We come from 64 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: countries that are hierarchical. I mean, there is elitdism in Mexico, 65 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 3: there's elitism in Peru. But there is this built in 66 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 3: resentment for Latinos that is very present here. The way 67 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 3: that I see it is we're used to it. We 68 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 3: have been used to it for so long. 69 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: When the United States invaded basically Mexico, when it did 70 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: the westward whole thing, We're going to go over there, 71 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: We're going to take that land. 72 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: It was an invasion of another country. There's a question 73 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 2: about it. 74 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: Starting from there, there's always been We don't exist, We're invisible. 75 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: This land is nobody's land. 76 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: So what we have is a long history of living 77 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: with racism and living with racism and in our own 78 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 1: context wherever we are from, because there's racism throughout Latin America, 79 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: but that has been so present here that we can 80 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: look away. I mean, and we do look away. You 81 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: keep your head down and you keep on moved, and 82 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: that's the Latino way you work. You become a part 83 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: of the landscape here because you work at it, and 84 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: you tend to ignore people's views of you which belittle you. 85 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: And I think that's what's happened in this political climate, 86 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: it is an ability to sort of look the other way, 87 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: keep your head down, keep your work going. And so 88 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: it has been the decisions have been really about what 89 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: is this country doing about the economy, about making me 90 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: able to raise my children better, able to put food 91 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: on the table in a more reasonable way, in a 92 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: more affordable way. And so I think we're very pragmatic 93 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: in certain ways. 94 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 3: Latinos and Latinas did vote overwhelmingly, or they voted in 95 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: their majority for the Democrats, for a black woman, Kamala Harris, 96 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 3: but it was surprising to see what about thirty seven 97 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 3: percent of Latino voters and more Latino men than we 98 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: have ever seen before voting for Donald Trump. And specifically 99 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 3: on the question of Latino men, what do you copied 100 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: away with? 101 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: You have to say the Democrats did not do their job. 102 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: They sat on their haunches and they were just not 103 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: moving on that population until last minute. And I think 104 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: there's a perception that the Democratic Party is weak and 105 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: week on the economy, soft on giving in to a 106 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: lot of issues that may not be important. I mean, 107 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: diversity is much less important to Latinos than you think. 108 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: If you come at them and say We're the diversity party. 109 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: You know, We're the party that represents you. It's like, well, wait, 110 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: what represents b is the economy, is how far I 111 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: can get in my job, is the real questions of education, 112 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: and also and security, and also I want to be 113 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: a real American, right, I want to be a real American, 114 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: and I want to be a tough one. 115 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: We don't like the situation of the morder. 116 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: Also, when you talk about Latino men, when you're talking 117 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: about that weakness, when you're talking about this sort of 118 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: accepting behavior that isn't necessarily traditional, this is seen by 119 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: a lot of Latino men as being a weakness, and 120 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: I think that sort of machismo streak then kicks in. 121 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: You want it to be like the old way. You 122 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: want men to be men and women to be women, 123 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. But also when you see 124 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: the population moving towards Evangelicalism, for instance, and it's a 125 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: growing population, it has been tremendously forceful in creating our 126 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: political selves because the evangelical church is very very clear. 127 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: You vote your faith, and the faith is conservative, and 128 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: the faith has a man at the head of a household, 129 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: and that's the way it goes and talking to someone 130 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: like Sam Rodriguez, who is the pastor of millions of 131 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: evangelicals in this country. He said very clearly, I don't 132 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: see myself the Democratic Party. I don't see my faith 133 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: in the Democratic Party. 134 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 3: One of the things that we love about your book, right, 135 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 3: is that you are that person that goes wide. 136 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: Right. 137 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 3: So you did over two hundred interviews. You travel the country. 138 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 3: You talk to Latinos who are Asian, you talk to 139 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: Afro Latinos, you talk to those of us who have 140 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 3: indigenous roots as well as those of us who have 141 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 3: very clear roots from Spain. And speaking of Spain, you know, 142 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 3: I was interviewed on finding your Roots with Henry Lewis 143 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 3: Gates for public television, and so I learned about this 144 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,559 Speaker 3: particular ancestor of mine. 145 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 5: In fifteen ninety six, he led a small force that 146 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 5: founded the city of Monterey. In the process, he undoubtedly 147 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 5: participated in the genocide of Mexico's native population, forcing Maria 148 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 5: to confront an uncomfortable fact. You, my dear, are the 149 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 5: eleventh great granddaughter of a conquistador, and I have to. 150 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: Sit with that. 151 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 3: After being kind of flabberc asked and having to say wow, yeah, 152 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 3: part of my family did participate in ugly violence against 153 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 3: men and women of indigenous roots. 154 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: No question. 155 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 3: Then at the end, what Henry Lewis Gates told me is, well, 156 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 3: the thing, Maria is that your matrilineal line is indigenous. 157 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 3: How do you think we need to process this kind 158 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 3: of complicated history. 159 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a tremendous thing to absorb. 160 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: We are part Conquistadtis, and we are part the indigenous 161 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: victims of the Conquistallotis, and we are part of that 162 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: ancient race that was here. And this happened to me 163 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: as well, Mada, because Maiawilita have said to me, why 164 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: are you asking these questions? You are one hundred percent Grioya. Well, 165 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: you know, crioya meaning that you may not have been 166 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: born in Spain, but you might as well have been 167 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: born in Spain because you're so Spanish. Well no, I 168 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: mean I'm at least forty percent indigenous, and a lot 169 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: of other things thrown in too. 170 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: Who knows. We are a cauldron of backgrounds. 171 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 3: How do you propose that family should have these kinds 172 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 3: of complicated conversations at the dinner table where we're like, well, 173 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,479 Speaker 3: let's talk about our complicated history. 174 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: The fact that you can trace these things, the fact 175 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: that you can see it in concrete ways in your DNA, 176 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: and that you can see the very heartbreaking ways that 177 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: we have tried to avoid this history. Now is the 178 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: time to actually embrace it, because you know, the eradication 179 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: of cultures in Latin America was huge. 180 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: When you think of Argentina and Chile. 181 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: And uru Way and Baraguay with all the tremendous effort 182 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: to get rid of the indigenous population, and not just 183 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: you know, to kill them by a starvation or by 184 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: working them to death, but really to kill them period. 185 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: Is a terrible history, and I think we have to 186 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: face it, and I think that we don't need to 187 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: fool ourselves. 188 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 3: Coming up on Latino USA, we continue my conversation with 189 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 3: Marie Arana. We talk about what it was like in 190 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: the early days when Marie was one of the few 191 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 3: Latinas in literary spaces, and we talk about how history 192 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 3: may be repeating itself as threats of mass deportation take rise. 193 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 3: It's not the first time our community has gone through this. 194 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 3: Stay with us notes, Hey, we're back, and today I'm 195 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 3: talking to journalist and author Marie Arana about her latest book. 196 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 3: It's called Latino Land, a Portrait of America's largest and 197 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: least understood minority. And part of our conversation is about 198 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 3: what it's like to make your mark as a Latino 199 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: person in this country, something that Marie knows about all 200 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 3: too well. So now let's jump back into my conversation 201 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 3: with Marie. American Chicout was such an important book for me. 202 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: You were writing about being from Latin America but being 203 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 3: in the United States and very similar you bidou me Mexico. 204 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 2: It was one of the. 205 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 3: First books that really for me dealt with kind of 206 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 3: identity Latina identity. The way it was written felt very welcoming. 207 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 3: And then, of course I find out that you I think, 208 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 3: at the same time that you were writing the book, 209 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: you were at the Washington Post as a book critic, 210 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 3: and I just was like, who is this Latina who's 211 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 3: at the Washington Post as a book critic? And so 212 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 3: I'm wondering a little bit about if you can take 213 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 3: me back to those moments in the earlier part of 214 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 3: your career when you were at the Washington Post one 215 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 3: of very few latinas. You're writing this book about Latina identity. 216 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 3: What do you remember about those times? 217 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for bringing up American Chica. 218 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: It was transformative for me. By then, I had worked 219 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: in several publishing houses and I was always erasing who 220 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: I was, and I would bring projects to the publishing 221 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: house that I was working for. I remember very clearly 222 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: in the editorial meetings, I would suggest some sort of 223 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: Latino or Hispanic story and it would be, well, why 224 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: would you want to publish this. Hispanics don't read, Latinos 225 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: don't read. So there was an element of bearing who 226 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: I was when I'm just trying to prove that I 227 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: could publish a book by Dariel Patrick Wenihan just as 228 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: easily like I just I could publish anything else. 229 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: And it was I already. 230 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: Tender Daniel Patrick Voyner write who I did publish and 231 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: did edit. So I was this effort to squash any 232 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: sort of Latino on the part of the the publishing 233 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: house had a huge effect on me. It was like, 234 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: let's erase us, Let's erase me, because that's not going 235 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: to work in this context. And then I went to 236 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: the Washington Post and the first question that I was 237 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: asked on my first day in Washington post was, Oh, 238 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: you were born in Lima, Peru. Do you speak Spanish? 239 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: Would you be willing to, aside from your book critic duties, 240 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: go out and do stories a Latino population which is 241 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: burgeting in Washington, d C. The capital of this country. 242 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: Would you be willing to do that? And I said, well, yes, sure, 243 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: I'll do that. And I went out and I interviewed 244 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: side from my day job, interviewed population of tomato growers 245 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: and poultry factory workers and whatnot. And I realized that 246 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: I had buried that little ten year old girl in 247 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: order to make do in the American's corporate structure and 248 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: university structure and academic structure. And I realized going around 249 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: and speaking Spanish to these people who were just arriving 250 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: and making work their goal of their lives and transforming 251 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: themselves into Americans. I realized that I had buried and 252 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: made that little girl invisible, and I wanted to bring 253 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: her back. And that's what I decided to write American Chica, 254 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: which was basically a story about not about coming to America, 255 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: but about being a bridge, being a bridge to these 256 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: two cultures and not knowing which I belonged to at 257 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: the time, and trying to negotiate these two cultures that 258 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: were very, very different to me. 259 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 3: So Marie, you open your book Latino Man with this 260 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 3: very specific memory that you have when you and your 261 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 3: family arrived in Miami. Your dad was born in Bidu, 262 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: he was a civil engineer. Your mom from Wyoming. 263 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: Her family was in Wyoming. 264 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so you're making this journey from Miami to 265 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: Wyoming by bus, and then there's this moment that happens 266 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 3: at the public bathroom. 267 00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: Take us there. 268 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: My mother decides that the youngest one that's me needs 269 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: to take care of business, and so we go towards 270 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: the restrooms and I see these signs and one sign 271 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: says colored and one says whites only, and. 272 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: So I go for the colored. 273 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: I've never imagined such a concept as colored and white 274 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: in the world that I had come from. We were 275 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: all colors, all part of one family. And the surprisees 276 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: often come in a Latin American family, what color you are, 277 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: but here to be told to go one way or another, 278 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: And I instinctively went to the colored. My mother pulled 279 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: my arm and dragged me into the whites, and that 280 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: that was a real sort of epiphany for me. It's like, 281 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: what color am I? Where do I fit in? I'm 282 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: not her color, not my mother's color. I don't have 283 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: blue eyes, I don't have blonde hair, And where is 284 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: my dad going to go? 285 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 3: And I remember talking about this many many, many many 286 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 3: years later with my dad, who had a hard time 287 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 3: kind of expressing this. But it was almost like it 288 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 3: was then when his distrust of the United States was 289 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 3: kind of born, because it was like a sense of 290 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 3: can we trust this advanced industrial country with a great democracy, 291 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 3: but their issues on race take them backwards? 292 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? 293 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know when Mexico gave up that land 294 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: that went all the way up to Colorado and then 295 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: went west all the way from California to Kansas. When 296 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 1: finally Mexico understood that it was either there was going 297 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: to go to war for this land and it lost, 298 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: and it left a lot of Mexicans behind on the 299 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: land that the United States basically invaded. They were smart 300 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: enough to say, if these people stay on their land, 301 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: our Mexicans stay on the land that they've owned for 302 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, at that point hundreds of years, you have 303 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: to treat them as whites. 304 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, So when Mexico lost the Mexican American War in 305 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 3: eighteen forty eight. They surrendered with the condition that Mexicans 306 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 3: on land now claimed by the United States that they 307 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 3: would be offered full US citizenship as well as full 308 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 3: access to civil rights in the United States. 309 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: So Mexicans were called white on the US Census. It 310 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: was automatically white, so that you could vote, but then 311 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: treated the same as blacks. So it was a sort 312 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: of an astounding moment. 313 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 3: So part of your book you talk about this history 314 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 3: related in particular to Republican presidents. You brought up President 315 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 3: Nixon and President Reagan and how they both played historic 316 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 3: roles in reaching Latinos and Latinas. And you know, for 317 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 3: those of you who don't remember, right Nixon, as controversial 318 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 3: as he was, he was the one who kind of said, hmmm, 319 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 3: y'all who speak Spanish and kind of there's something that 320 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,239 Speaker 3: we need to do here around politics and bringing you 321 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 3: in as voters. What did President Nixon do well, he. 322 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: Was appalled by the fact that when he ran for 323 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: president the first time, he didn't really capture the vote 324 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: at that point Mexicans, and he was kind of appalled 325 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: at that because he was Californian. His father was a grocer. 326 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: Next it would go out as a boy to the 327 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: agricultural fields where the Mexicans were and help them load 328 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: their vegetables and their fruits or whatever, or onto the 329 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: trucks of his father who sold these things. And so 330 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: he said, you know, I know these people, I've worked 331 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: shoulder to shoulders. 332 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 2: Why didn't they. 333 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: Vote for me? Or I'm very attached to them? I 334 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: think he spoke a little Spanish himself. So he brought 335 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: in an advisor and he said, you know, what do 336 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: I have to do? And the advisor basically said, well, 337 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, you've got to put Latino's generals in the army. 338 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: You've got to put Latina in the White House. You've 339 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: got to put Latino's in your cabinet. And that's what 340 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: you've got to do. And Nixon did all of that. 341 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: So Nixon was very very aware of the Latino population 342 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: and very much wanted to engage them, and by golly, 343 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: he did all these things, and he increased his vote 344 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: from the Mexicans of California, in Arizona and Texas. So 345 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: that was a very strategic move on Nixon's part. He 346 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: was very passionate about it, very passionate about it. 347 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 3: It's so funny because I was a little girl and 348 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 3: in my family we did not like Richard Nixon because 349 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 3: he was supporting the war in Vietnam and I didn't 350 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 3: want any war. And I remember hearing about this term 351 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 3: Hispanic and that Nixon was the one who was behind 352 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 3: this notion of Hispanic, and I was like, why does 353 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 3: he want to take away my mexicanness? You know, the 354 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 3: things that you remember as a little kid. Now, Ronald Reagan, 355 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 3: another Republican, actually signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act 356 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 3: into law and therefore actually legalizes about three million formally 357 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 3: undocumented people. Both things that the Republicans did. Was it 358 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 3: as strategic as you say that? They really were planting 359 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 3: these seeds with the thought of and then in twenty 360 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 3: twenty four, we're going to win big with Latinos and 361 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 3: Latinos even though we're telling them that we don't really 362 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 3: like their people. 363 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: No, no, no, Latinos were once pretty uniformly Republican before 364 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: Franklin Roosevelt. It was Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal that made 365 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: all the people in the lower classes, shall we say, 366 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: or in the more modest classes suddenly switch over to 367 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party. That was not necessarily a strategic move 368 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: on Roosevelt's Roosevelt didn't necessarily want the hispatics during the 369 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: Republican Party, but it happened because of the New Deal, 370 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: and it because of the new opportunities because of what 371 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: he did, and so Republicans uniformly switched over to the 372 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: Democratic Party. But yeah, it was Ronald Reagan and Trend 373 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: Dixon who were doing these things. And no, I don't 374 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: think they had an eye to twenty twenty four. I 375 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: think actually, because of their roots in California, they were 376 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: very predisposed to helping the Latino population in some way 377 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: on the world stage. 378 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 3: So to stick with politics for a moment, And because 379 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 3: of your vast experience of Latinos and Latinas across the country, 380 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 3: it does feel like those of us like you and 381 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 3: I have been covering Latinos and Latinas not for years, 382 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 3: but for decades. Absolutely feels like there's been a shift. Ye, 383 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 3: the narrative is different. I'm wondering how you're sitting with this. 384 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: The DIGO in my worst days and I try not 385 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 3: to have any of them right, but it's like ba Quevalo, migarea. 386 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 3: What was it all worth this career dedicated to journalism 387 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 3: rit large, but specifically educating about Latinos and Latinas ba Quevalio. 388 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 3: So how do you sit with this moment and what 389 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 3: do you see as the next kind of turn for 390 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 3: Latinos and latin as large in the United States. 391 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: The answer is in the numbers. I mean, this is 392 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: a young population, of burgeoning population. It is in many 393 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: ways moving the country's economy. If we are going to 394 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: be deported by the ton, the economy is actually going 395 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: to suffer. It's going to suffer in majorly dramatic ways. 396 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: If you would take the Latino population as a nation 397 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: of this country, we have the fifth largest gross domestic 398 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: product in the world. In the world, we are supporting 399 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: the economy of this country. When you know that as 400 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: a Latino and you know that you're contributing to the country, 401 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: you're going to work for the advancement of that economy. 402 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: We are some of the most hardworking people in this country. 403 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: The largest growth of small businesses in this country is 404 00:23:54,680 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: among Latinos. We produce so much. Imagine the phenomenal work 405 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: that we do to keep corporations afloat in this country, 406 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: even though we have such little representation in the leadership. 407 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: This is the thing that kills me, is that all 408 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: of this contribution to the economy and on boardrooms of 409 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: the United States, it's bound to happen that people recognize us. 410 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 2: More and more. 411 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: This election was really interesting in a way because it 412 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: was for the first time it was what are the 413 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: Latta's going to do? This is a population that we 414 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: need to pay attention to, even if it is a 415 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: splintered population in so many ways. In other ways it 416 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,959 Speaker 1: coheres in the economic contributions that it gives to this country. 417 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: It coheres in a very big way. We differ politically, 418 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: just like every other group differents politically. Nobody asked the 419 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: same questions of the Irish. Nobody asked the same questions 420 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: of the German Americans, the Jewish population. 421 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 2: Whatever. 422 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: You know, there's going to be differences. Political is not 423 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: the way to judge who we are. 424 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: So as we wrap up, Marie, there is the specter, right, 425 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 3: the threat the Aminasca of mass deportations. 426 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 6: Well, I think you have to do it, and it's 427 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 6: a it's a very tough thing to do. It's but 428 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 6: you have to have you know you have rules, regulations, 429 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 6: law as they came in illegally. 430 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 4: Let me ask you about another group of people, the 431 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 4: estimated four million families in America who have mixed immigration status. 432 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 6: I don't want to be breaking up families. So the 433 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 6: only way you don't break up the family is you 434 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 6: keep them together, and you have to send them all back. 435 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 3: People are getting ready for what this looks like. We 436 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 3: have actually been here before. We have lived through this, 437 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 3: both in the previous Trump administration and in the Obama administration. 438 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 3: Clintonistry and the Clinton administration who actually started building the 439 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 3: first wall, right, it was Clinton who signed that. And 440 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 3: mass deportations have existed historically. One hundred years ago, there 441 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 3: was what it's called in the history books, the repatriation. 442 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 4: By some estimates, almost two million individuals were deported from 443 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 4: the United States in the nineteen thirties. Some estimate that 444 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 4: almost sixty percent of those that were deported were United 445 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,239 Speaker 4: States citizens. 446 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 3: As if repatriating to Mexico. No, it was force deportation, 447 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 3: forced exodus, and then again operation to use that slur, 448 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 3: Operation Wetback. 449 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 7: In May nineteen fifty four, the US Border Patrol announced 450 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 7: Operation Wetback, a campaign to deport Mexican workers who are 451 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 7: in the country illegally. The program succeeded in rounding up 452 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 7: over a million people, most of them men. This new 453 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 7: policy marked the beginning of modern deportation raids and the 454 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 7: militarization of the border that we're familiar with today. 455 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 3: So what are you preparing for? How do you think 456 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 3: we need to prepare for this moment and process what's happening? 457 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 3: And already Donald Trump is kind of walking some of 458 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 3: this back. Yes, so it's like he wants it both ways, right, 459 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 3: But there is a reality that we will live through 460 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 3: what is being called, right the moment of mass deportation 461 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 3: of twenty twenty five. 462 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: I don't want to borrow trouble and actually believe that 463 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: it's going to happen, because if it is true that 464 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: anybody who is not US born it's going to be 465 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: a candidate for importation that you and I admit you 466 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: and you would be very much there. 467 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 3: I mean, you've thought about the fact that they could 468 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 3: challenge your US citizenship. Obviously I've thought about it. If 469 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 3: you and I you know, people who are at the 470 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 3: highest level of our professions have thought, hmmm, well they 471 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 3: could challenge my US citizenship, right, I have to think 472 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 3: about people who don't have anywhere near our privilege and 473 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 3: the kind of panic and fear that they're experience. 474 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: It has happened, but as you say very clearly, it 475 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 1: has happened before, and it has happened in very ugly ways, 476 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: where people with bronze stars and purple hearts have been 477 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: deported and then asked to come back to serve again, 478 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, in the most ludicrous way. My hope is 479 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: that it is, as so much has been, just verbiage 480 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: that's thrown around, that's hate language that is meant to 481 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: turn us against one another and scare us. 482 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 2: I mean, really, the classic method of. 483 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: A strong man of an autocrat is to threaten and 484 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: to scare people. But you know, who knows who knows? 485 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: Uglier things have happened here before. 486 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 3: The reality is that for Latinos and Latinas in the 487 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 3: United States, starting in twenty twenty five, there is going 488 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 3: to be a kind of reckoning with who we are 489 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 3: and how we move and how we understand our privilege 490 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 3: and what we do for those who are less privileged, 491 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 3: and a moment of of resistance. As it worked, we'll 492 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 3: be forced. 493 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: To add yeah, and we should. We should act. 494 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: We should definitely act, because no, you've got to stand 495 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: up and you've got to protest when these things do happen. 496 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: I think it's very, very important that we make ourselves 497 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: know that we have a voice. 498 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 2: Don't back down. Don't back down. 499 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 3: Maria Anna, thank you so much for joining us on 500 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: Latin New USA. Thank you for all of your work 501 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 3: for all of us. 502 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Madia. Such a pleasure. 503 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 4: That was. 504 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 3: Journalist and author Marie Anna. Her latest book, Latino Lab, 505 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 3: a portrait of America's largest and least Understood minority, is 506 00:29:46,640 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 3: out now. This episode was produced by Renaldo Leanos Junior 507 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: and edited by Alejandra Salasad. 508 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 2: It was mixed by j J. Carubin Ni. 509 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 3: Latino USA team also includes Roxanna Guire, Julia Caruso, Bernanda Chavari, 510 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 3: Jessica Ellis, Victoria Estrada, Dominique Estrosa, Stefree Lebau, Andrea Lopez Cruzado, 511 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 3: Luis Luna Marta Martinez, Tasha Sandoval, Nor Saudi and Nancy Trujillo. 512 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 3: Nile Ramirez, Marlon Bishop, Maria Garcia and myself are your 513 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 3: co executive producers and I'm your host, Marie no Josa. 514 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 3: Join us again on our next. 515 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 2: Episode, Dear listener. 516 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 3: In the meantime, remember to find us on all of 517 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 3: your social media. 518 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 2: I'll see you on Instagram. Diacuerda de no. 519 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 8: Devayes Latino USA is made possible in part by the 520 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 8: Ford Foundation, working with visionary on the front lines of 521 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 8: social change worldwide, the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, 522 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 8: and the Heising Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. 523 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 8: More at hsfoundation dot org.