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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, and we're back with Michelle La Balanga as

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Speaker 1: we talk about her work as a demonologist. Michelle, you're

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Speaker 1: a Catholic. I'm a Catholic. The Catholic Church has been

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Speaker 1: very active lately in the studying demons. They have opened

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Speaker 1: up their exorcism classes. They're getting more exorcists all over

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Speaker 1: the place. What can you tell us about what the

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Speaker 1: Catholic churches is doing on record about this. Well, they've

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Speaker 1: started up demonology and exorcism courses, and you know, typically

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Speaker 1: that's been exclusively for Catholics, Catholic priests, and you know,

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Speaker 1: very guarded territory. And that is not to say that

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Speaker 1: the right of exorcism isn't something that you find in

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Speaker 1: you know, other Christian traditions as well as other traditions,

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Speaker 1: other religions right across the board. But you know, our

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Speaker 1: popular portrait trail, partly because of the movie The Exorcist,

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Speaker 1: what people identify with classic exorcism is very much the

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Speaker 1: Roman ritual. They've opened their doors to not merely Catholics

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Speaker 1: at this point. They are concerned enough by a rise

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Speaker 1: in what they believe to be genuine cases of possession

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Speaker 1: across the globe that they want to arm more than

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Speaker 1: just their priests, which is unprecedented. That's huge news, isn't it. No,

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Speaker 1: absolutely huge, like not something that has ever happened before.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when I've seen the news bite about it,

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Speaker 1: I started like digging around on the internet, because of course,

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Speaker 1: we live in the world where you have to like

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Speaker 1: find five different citations for something that you've read on

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Speaker 1: any news feed to make sure that it's actually really true,

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Speaker 1: that's true. You're right. I have to look at these

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Speaker 1: things now ten times before I go on the AAR

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Speaker 1: with it, going is this real? I've got a couple

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Speaker 1: of sources that are, you know, impeccable, but you still

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Speaker 1: never know, especially on the internet. Yeah, no, and and

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Speaker 1: so like double checking and double checking and double checking. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know it's it is a weeklong Vatican course

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Speaker 1: and it's an international series on I think the title

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Speaker 1: is Exorcism and the Prayer of Liberation And it's uh,

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Speaker 1: what three hundred euros or so, so what is that?

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Speaker 1: It's probably three sixty under under four hundred dollars, not

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Speaker 1: a lot to become an exorcist. For like the level

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Speaker 1: of instruction. Well, and I guess they give you a

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Speaker 1: certificate too, right, you're certified. I would imagine something that

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Speaker 1: proves that you are who you are. Yeah. No, and

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Speaker 1: that's that's important. That's actually one of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: I resist calling myself a demonologist. You know, I've got

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Speaker 1: the scholarly background, but again, there's just so many people

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Speaker 1: who just kind of put on the demologist, Right, you've

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Speaker 1: not been authenticated basically. Well, the problem is is you know,

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Speaker 1: having set in on some things that were pretty hairy.

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Speaker 1: That is not something I would suggest anybody try to

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Speaker 1: do after reading just one book, Like that's dangerous territory,

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Speaker 1: not just for the person who they're trying to help,

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Speaker 1: but for anybody else in that room. Now, go ahead, Well,

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Speaker 1: why do you think the Catholic Church opened up these

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Speaker 1: these courses and certifications to other people who are non Catholic. Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I think we've got a pretty fantastic

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Speaker 1: pope who's progressive and open minded. And on top of that,

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Speaker 1: the demonologists with the church have been really kind of

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Speaker 1: pounding the drums of We're in a time where things

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Speaker 1: are getting intense, and I think it only makes sense

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Speaker 1: at that point to be more ecumenical about it. Well,

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Speaker 1: that could be absolutely Now, originally what created demons possessions?

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Speaker 1: Was it? Was it mainstream religion? How did it start

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Speaker 1: in the first place? And I'm talking about way back

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Speaker 1: since the beginning of time. If we go back to

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Speaker 1: simmer Babylon, their idea of a possession, which which is

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Speaker 1: almost one for one what we had identify as possession

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Speaker 1: the possessed person. First of all, the things that they

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Speaker 1: identified as demons were non human entities that were intelligent

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Speaker 1: and malevolent and expressly focused on disrupting the human sphere.

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Speaker 1: They were bringers of chaos and disease and destruction. They

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Speaker 1: were often personified as these massive forces of nature, but

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Speaker 1: you know, took particular interest in individuals. They would overshadow them,

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Speaker 1: first cause illness, but ultimately try to crawl into their skin,

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Speaker 1: like get into the person and then recarm through the person.

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Speaker 1: The methods of driving that out as fascinatingly, we see

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Speaker 1: an echo in the Jari scene demoniac in I think

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Speaker 1: it's in Luke and in Mark. Everybody knows this section

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Speaker 1: out of the Bible because it's where I am Legion

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Speaker 1: comes from and it's the fellow who Jesus comes across

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Speaker 1: him and he's got a legion of demons in him.

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Speaker 1: Jesus ultimately demands their name. They answered that their legion,

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Speaker 1: and Jesus casts them out into her swine, which then

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Speaker 1: go careening off a cliff and kill it and die,

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Speaker 1: presumably killing the demons. The time period that the culture

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Speaker 1: that that occurs in those folks would recognize that as

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Speaker 1: a very classic method of extorcism, because that's how it

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Speaker 1: was done all the way back to sumer and Babylon.

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Speaker 1: They would get the name of the possessing entity, they

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Speaker 1: would drive it out, usually into a substitute, often an animal,

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Speaker 1: sometimes as figuring, but usually something like a pig or

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Speaker 1: a goat, that would then be sacrificed thereby killing the

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Speaker 1: demon that was caught in it. Because you really didn't

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Speaker 1: want to do that to the person, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there is that possibility you could end up killing the

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Speaker 1: person trying to get the demon. Well, and that's one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons why ectorcism has been a very controversial

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Speaker 1: thing because sometimes that has happened, it has happened on record,

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Speaker 1: it has been a result in instances we're the folks

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Speaker 1: performing the extorcism felt very firm that what they were

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Speaker 1: doing was right, you know, having having watched Father Bob

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Speaker 1: battle a couple of things. The folks who are possessed

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Speaker 1: or who are manifesting all of these signs of being

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Speaker 1: possessed do not go quietly and can get violent, and

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Speaker 1: so I can understand why there are circumstances where people

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Speaker 1: are held down or occasionally bound and tied down, because

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Speaker 1: you know, frankly, they one of the signs of demonic possession.

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Speaker 1: Because the Catholic Church used to be very strict, and

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Speaker 1: I think still is. They have a checklist of things

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Speaker 1: that a person has to manifest for them to identify

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Speaker 1: it as genuine possession. You know, obviously psychological and psychiatric

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Speaker 1: issues have to be ruled out, and you know those

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Speaker 1: are psychiatrists are involved these days with assessing it. But

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Speaker 1: you know, a person will exhibit strength that is beyond

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Speaker 1: their their mortal frame, and you know that's the right

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Speaker 1: there on the checklist. Xenoglossia, which is speaking in tongues,

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Speaker 1: exhibiting languages that they never had exposure to, that they

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Speaker 1: had no opportunity to learn, exhibiting knowledge because the things

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Speaker 1: that we believe we're dealing with. They're they're smarter than

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Speaker 1: you're average there, and that's for sure. You know, they're

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Speaker 1: they're more tuned into things and will come up with

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Speaker 1: some of the darndest stuff comes out of their mouths

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Speaker 1: in the middle of stuff. That much I can attest

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Speaker 1: to what creates the possession in the first place, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what did they do to get their guard down? Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of different opinions on that. If you

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Speaker 1: go back to the roots of Western demonology in the

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Speaker 1: tradition of possession and exorcism, sometimes nothing at all, like

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Speaker 1: you just pulled the short straw um something. You caught

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Speaker 1: something's attention and maybe you were just not feeling well

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Speaker 1: enough that week. Maybe you didn't appreciate the right God.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes it's just bad things happen to good people. Now,

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Speaker 1: as we've moved forward here and now there's generally the

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Speaker 1: idea that somehow you've invited it in that there's some

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Speaker 1: lap in board. Maybe well, some of the most convincing

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Speaker 1: um letting things in UM. I'll fall back on one

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Speaker 1: of the ones that I sat in on UM and

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Speaker 1: this was this was an instance that Father Bob was

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Speaker 1: involved in and I will say that in my opinion

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Speaker 1: that there was definitely a possessing entity. The individual had

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Speaker 1: a history of drugs and alcohol, and so addiction was

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Speaker 1: a significant issue for him. And it was the opinion

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Speaker 1: not merely a father, Bob, but also of the psychologist

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Speaker 1: who was working with us, that that was the that

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Speaker 1: was the crack that let this start to get into

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Speaker 1: his life. And I find that, honestly, a much more

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Speaker 1: credible crack than just picking up, you know, a cursed

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Speaker 1: item or whatnot. All that could be. Now you also

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Speaker 1: have you still have this haunted house? Yeah, um, it's

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Speaker 1: the coziest haunting. So I train people who are what

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Speaker 1: what's our coziest haunting. So it's it's a house that

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Speaker 1: was built in eighteen sixty nine, eighteen seventy and it's

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Speaker 1: had a series of owners, many of whom lived thirty

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Speaker 1: forty years. Like they lived and they died in the

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Speaker 1: houses in the house, and they are in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: the ghosts that haunt that house are people who simply

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Speaker 1: loved it too much to want to leave. They're not violent,

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Speaker 1: they're not negative, they're intelligent. And it was the best

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Speaker 1: haunting I could find as kind of a place for

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Speaker 1: psychic training, wheels, for folks who are working with spirits,

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Speaker 1: who are learning to discern the difference between a negative

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Speaker 1: haunting and a good haunting, who are learning to assess

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Speaker 1: their own abilities. It is the safest thing I could find.

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Speaker 1: When you enjoy it, obviously, yeah, actually I am. You know,

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Speaker 1: spent some time getting to know the people who were

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Speaker 1: there is a relaxing I find it interesting. I suppose

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Speaker 1: it's not everybody's cup of tea. I was raised in

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Speaker 1: a family where where psychic abilities came down on both sides,

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Speaker 1: and so spirits weren't necessarily a weird or scary thing

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Speaker 1: growing up. You know, finding that there are certainly much

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Speaker 1: nastier things out there, and you know, just you know,

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Speaker 1: you're dead Aunt Edna who just has never left upstairs,

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Speaker 1: that's a very different thing. But you know, the house

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Speaker 1: that I picked up an Oberlin is not everything needs

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Speaker 1: to be driven out, and you know, I have a

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Speaker 1: very firm stance on that. It was actually one of

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Speaker 1: the things that Lorraine and I sometimes disagreed on professionally.

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Speaker 1: I really didn't think that everything needed to be cast

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Speaker 1: out of a house or anything like In some cases

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Speaker 1: sometimes our dead loved ones come back to watch over us,

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Speaker 1: and you know it's their choice to come back, and

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Speaker 1: they're not causing any trouble. Actually, they're there to help.

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Speaker 1: The problem being that you know your average person can't

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Speaker 1: tell the difference and isn't necessarily prepared to deal with

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Speaker 1: the manifestation of the paranormal. It's it's scary, even if

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Speaker 1: it is well intentioned. Listen to more Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: AM every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and go

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast am dot com for more