1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: I was poisoned, I clinically died. I remember exactly what 4 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: happened during that near death experience or death experience, and 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: I spent the last ten years thinking about that. 6 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts 7 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand 9 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death. 10 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories 11 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please 12 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering 13 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: for some listener, and discretion is advised. 14 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: So this was twenty fifteen, almost ten years ago, and 15 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: I put it this way, I spent a lot of 16 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: time in my life just like not taking good care 17 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 2: of myself, doing things that were not too smart, and 18 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: in hindsight, being involved with like people and things that 19 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: you know probably should have been a lot scarier than 20 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: they would to like kind of a shocking level. Considering 21 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: that I never really looked at myself was like part 22 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: of like why don't you call it the underworld or 23 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: crime or what have you. So I was kind of 24 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: living not about to see my pants. Like I was 25 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: professionally very stable and successful. My interpersonal relationships were always good, 26 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 2: but again just putting a lot of stuff into me 27 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 2: that was not a good idea and being around people 28 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: that were like very very largely involved the very shady 29 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: things as a result of that. The way I'd put 30 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: this and how I ended up in the situation where 31 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: I had this experience was someone I knew got the 32 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 2: brilliant ideas poison me. And this guy has pleaded everyone 33 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: was out to like get him in some way, including me, 34 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: Like he thought that stuff I was doing, which I 35 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: wasn't even had me to be considered, was like costing 36 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: him large sums of money or like deterring him from 37 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 2: taking his business to. 38 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 3: The next level, if you will. 39 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: I think his goal was to make it so I 40 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: go away and it would just look like it was 41 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 2: something I did to myself or. 42 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: Something and that like I died in an overdose or 43 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 3: something like that. 44 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: I mean, I was, you know, using drugs pretty seriously, 45 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 2: and you know when I don't know specifically what went 46 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 2: into this, but somehow they were like diluted in a 47 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: way that was meant for me to just get poisoned, 48 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: to get sickamore you die specifically threw like microsis of 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: the skin if you get like from injections and stuff. 50 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 3: But it was just like you literally kill you. 51 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 2: I'll be kitchen chemic Wilson. 52 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 3: I think the consensus at the. 53 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: Time, you know, I got these drubs from him very 54 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: quickly realized like something is really really really wrong. 55 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 3: Uh, you know, like my arm was getting. 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: Very very problematically, like like just like my arm was 57 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: fucked up, and it was like this isn't normal. This 58 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: is I mean, not that there's anything normal about that 59 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: kind of stuff, but like and so yeah, very quickly 60 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: devolved into like I got to go to the emergency 61 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: room and like they basically get this thing cut out 62 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: because it was like spreading through my arm and he 63 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: was like really really serious, like he was like septic. 64 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 3: He was bad. He was really really quietly bad. 65 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: And that it's important, but just bring this up because 66 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: it plays into like how the experience affected me. But 67 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: I've never been like a depressive, depressed or like suicidal 68 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: type person at all then or now orever really, but 69 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: as far as like before and after with spirituality and 70 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: how I looked at just like I don't know the 71 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: nature of the universe or like life and death. 72 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 3: I was kind of one of these. 73 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 2: People that just like I don't know, man, I assume 74 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: just stuff ends and that's the end of it, you know, 75 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: Like I didn't put much thought into it other than 76 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: I assume that like death is bad, it's the end. 77 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 2: There's probably nothing to it, not necessarily even from like 78 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 2: a hardcore like atheism standpoint, if that makes sense. But 79 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: like just I don't know, Like maybe I've just never 80 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: been forced to really ask questions about it any like 81 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: serious way. 82 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 3: That actually caused me to think about it too much. 83 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: And the reason I brought up like the depressive thing 84 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 2: is again before this experience, again, I've never really wanted 85 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: to die. I've never been suicidal. I don't, even, to 86 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: be honest, like fully understand. 87 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 3: That type of thinking. I'm aware that people do think 88 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 3: that way. 89 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 2: But like, even at like the worst parts of life, 90 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 2: I still very much enjoy being alive. And I think 91 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: I've always appreciated life for being what it is, which 92 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: is like a cosmic miracle that on paper, and from 93 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: a statistician standpoint, it shouldn't make sense. 94 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 3: It really should. 95 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 2: So yeah, I basically ended up like in an er, 96 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 2: having to get like emergency surgery to sort of like 97 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: clear up this like septic infection, and like a part 98 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: of my arm that was just bumped up beyond believe 99 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,119 Speaker 2: that it would have spread even worse. At the time, 100 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: I was kind of living in a way where like 101 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 2: I didn't want anything bad to happen or to die 102 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: or whatever. 103 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 3: But if it did happen, it like for me, obviously, 104 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: it wouldn't have surprised me. 105 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: It was kind of just like I haven't put fought 106 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: into like long term life, if that makes sense, or 107 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 2: like what happens after all this. It was just kind 108 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: of like, well, I go to work, I make money, 109 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 2: I do this, and that's that until whatever. It's pretty groom, 110 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: pretty groom shit, to be honest. 111 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 3: You know, some. 112 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 2: Very young surgeon comes in. 113 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: You'll forget that. 114 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: The guest surfer almost and he's like takes a look 115 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: at it and he's like, I mean that will reminds 116 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: you of like wreck we you very grieve or something. 117 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 3: He looks at it, he's like, this is a fucking problem. 118 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 2: And it was kind of just like, you know, it's 119 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: happening very quickly. They're like running my insurance. It's like, hey, 120 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: we got to do this now. You know. It's not 121 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: like even very consultative. 122 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 3: It's just like this is serious. 123 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: There's literally no time to waste, Like we have to 124 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: cut this thing out, and I'm still trying to like 125 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: process the gravity of all of it. It's kind of 126 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: just like you're going to be operated on tonight. You know, 127 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: probably within an hour or two, we're going to be 128 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: cutting a part of your arm off and then like 129 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 2: grafting another part of your arm to your arm, Like. 130 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 3: You have to do this. 131 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: You know, if you've waited even a couple more days, 132 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 2: he probably would be dead before I know it. I'm 133 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: like sitting in one of those gowns they make you 134 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: where you know, it's like I'm waiting to go into 135 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: some i don't know what you call those, like oars 136 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: or where there's like six or seven people and they're 137 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: gonna knock you out under anesthesia. 138 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 3: And so yeah, I knew I was gonna be put under. 139 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: Anesthesia, and it was kind of just sitting there spinning, 140 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: if you will, about how crazy this is, and they 141 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 2: do the thing they kind of top you through like 142 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: you're going to go in. 143 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 3: They're they're telling you it's going to happen. 144 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: Nurse of an anesthesiologist is like, Okay, you're gonna count down 145 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: from ten. Before you get to one, you're already just 146 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: like completely on another plane of existence, if you will. 147 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 2: So I remember like being wheeled in specifically, and then 148 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: like I got to like three. Yeah, so I remember 149 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: being put under. And the next thing I remember is 150 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 2: that I'm like sitting out on like a small hill 151 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: and like the Arizona Desert. I'm kind of like staring 152 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 2: at the stars. 153 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 3: I'm very big into. 154 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 2: Like outer space and everything that goes with that. And again, 155 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: you're not perceptually aware that you're whatever under anesthesia. It 156 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: just feels like you're awake, but I think like a 157 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 2: really vivid dream that makes sense. The next thing I 158 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: remember is that, you know, someone comes up and starts 159 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: talking to me in a way that really starts it 160 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: makes sense, and like the tone of voice in the 161 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: language you seem like oddly familiar. It's like someone you 162 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: can't really put a face on per se but it 163 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: sort of looks like an amalgamation of various people that 164 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: you've either like looked up to or respect. Is like 165 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: authority figures throughout your life. 166 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 3: It's how I put it. 167 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: And it starts off and it's just like, oh, it's 168 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: a really nice night out. I don't know, like this 169 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 2: is really beautiful part of the country or something like that. 170 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: It starts with like. 171 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 2: Small talk, and then after a certain amount of time, 172 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: it's sort of hits me that like, hey, this is 173 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 2: like where am I and what is this? Because I've 174 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 2: suddenly started losing that sense of like I can they 175 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: call ego death? 176 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 3: Like who you are? You know, you become very. 177 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 2: Disoriented because you suddenly sort of realize the context of 178 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: your surroundings, but you're not sure who you are or 179 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 2: why you're there. So this again, like I can't opt 180 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: to paraphrase because I don't. 181 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 3: Remember specifically, like a ton of a dialogue. 182 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: But the stars sort of start falling onto the ground 183 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: and almost become these little like globe type things of 184 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: snow globe type things and you can pick up and 185 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: it kind of ticks me off that like, whatever this is, 186 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 2: it's not reality. But it's also like it's trying to 187 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: be some sort of metaphor for like what I'm about 188 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: to experience or what I'm about to get told, where 189 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: it's like, hey, you know, in the real world, you know, 190 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: the cosmos doesn't collapse on the ground. And so I 191 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 2: start talking to this person about this. 192 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 3: Like what exactly is this? Where are we? Why am 193 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 3: I here? 194 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: And in the course of this back and forth, at 195 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: some point I think I realized that, like, oh, I 196 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: think I'm dead, Like I literally think this is like, oh, 197 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: I've died, and this is some sort of transitional thing 198 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: that happens in between this. 199 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 3: Life and the next or what have you. 200 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 2: And so there's you know, this person I'm talking to again, 201 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: it's nameless, it's not faceless exactly, but sort of starts 202 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 2: telling me that like that's correct. You know, I'm not 203 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 2: technically dead yet, but I'm no longer alive, and what's 204 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 2: happening right now is more or less a transitional process 205 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 2: that happens to like every single life when you pass 206 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 2: from one to the next. And the broad strokes of sort. 207 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 4: Of what I was being told is that there really 208 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 4: is no such thing as death, like you more or 209 00:10:54,440 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 4: less infinitely reincarnate, and every time that you die there's soret. 210 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 2: Like this, and it was explained to me in like 211 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 2: mathematical terms because that's what I would understand. There was 212 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 2: a big emphasis on you're sort of using the the 213 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: language you would use on yourself to be most convincing. 214 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 2: I imagine, like, you know, it's a gun to your head, 215 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: here are the facts. You've got to explain the facts 216 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 2: to yourself in a way that you'll believe. That's kind 217 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: of how like the wag wage felt like. 218 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 3: It was like it was like my own. 219 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 2: Entity or whatever, using the exact wording that I found 220 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 2: most compelling or believable. So it's basically like, yeah, you know, 221 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 2: you're transitioning into a different life, and that happens eternally, 222 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 2: like there is no death, but what life is next 223 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 2: or like what that would look like, or what you 224 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: are or where you are or when you are is 225 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 2: more or less random, and I think some people would 226 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 2: find that terrifying, but I remember specifically finding that to 227 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: be like really reassuring what it meant to me, Like 228 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 2: at that point in life, I was like, well, if 229 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: this was it for me, you know, maybe onto the 230 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: next thing and maybe it could be better this time, 231 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 2: Like wasn't the worst outcome by your thinker of anything. 232 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: It was like really calling to know that there is more. 233 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: You know, there is more, there always will be than that. 234 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 3: Whatever it is. 235 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 2: You know, it's not just the same thing over and 236 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 2: over again. 237 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 3: You know. 238 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 2: It's kind of explains to me that like I don't 239 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: know what you want to call it, molecules or atoms, 240 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 2: Like you're sort of despawning from whatever this is into 241 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 2: the next thing, and that once you hit like the 242 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 2: greater than fifty per I mean, I do math and 243 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: like numbers for a movie, so like the greater than 244 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: are equal to fifty percent of like you're now the 245 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 2: next thing. It's irreversible. Like that's actually what death is. 246 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 2: Is that you've liked on a cosmic or you know, 247 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: existential spiritual level. You've transitioned into the next quantum life form. 248 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 2: I don't know what you want to call that, but 249 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: like the next thing, and it's like you're you're no 250 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 2: longer majority the makeup of whatever it is, your soul, 251 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: whatever you want to call that is no longer majority this, 252 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: It's now a majority that and that's like the irreversible 253 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: point from which there is no return. So so synesthesia 254 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 2: at least my understanding of it is something where the 255 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 2: you know, the traditional five senses that we define, you know, site, smell, hearing, 256 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 2: et cetera, a touch, they start to sort of blend together. 257 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 2: A common example is, you know, some people will claim 258 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: that they can they can see sounds or they can 259 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: hear colors. 260 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 3: That's a pretty common form of it. Like I believe Van. 261 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: Goh famously or you know, the theories that he suffered 262 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: from synesthesia to a degree. And I started noticing that, like, 263 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 2: so this world, I mean, if you think about almost 264 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 2: like a I don't know, a video game cutscene or something, 265 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 2: it's like everything's getting slightly less visually coherent, and it 266 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: starts I start feeling elements of that. We're like, I'm 267 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 2: not sure what exactly it is I'm becoming, but you know, 268 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 2: like it starts to feel like sensory inputties these cross pollinating, 269 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, I am like I am 270 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 2: seeing sounds a little bit, I'm hearing colors, what have you. 271 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 2: So it starts becoming like both more coherent in that like, 272 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: well this is the new thing, but also less coherence. 273 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: It's like not the same framework that we operate over here, 274 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: I remember getting like, so I started getting really scared 275 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: by this. And also I was like struggling to understand 276 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: the idea of like like reincarnation. I can easily preprocess, 277 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: but the idea of like nonlinear time was really. 278 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 3: Confusing to me. Like it's not just the what and. 279 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: The war might be different, but the when of whatever. 280 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: Next life is whatever you want to call that. 281 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 2: And so I can't remember at what exact point this 282 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: was done, but like as we're talking in this desert landscape, 283 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: we're walking around. 284 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 3: This almost felt like Bill and Ted to me. 285 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: There was like a payphone at the beginning of this. 286 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: I think I omitted this part where like a phone 287 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: ring and I answered it and the person on the 288 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: other line like asked me some really stupid question in 289 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 2: my mind about like I don't know Christmas as a 290 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: kid or something in like Nintendo games something. 291 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 3: Like that, where it was like do you remember this, 292 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 3: and it was like what, I don't know. And then 293 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 3: towards the end of. 294 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: This process I'm not telling you about what, we were 295 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 2: like walking in a different park that was like underground 296 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: sort of, and there was another one of these phones 297 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: and like I picked it up and it was like 298 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: I was on the other end of the same phone call, 299 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: but I also had like the ability to change how 300 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 2: the phone come went, So it was like experience and 301 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: a nonlinear out time moment to like demonstrate how that worked. 302 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: And as stupid as that sounds, like, he was very 303 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 2: again comforting, it made sense in the moment. Again, maybe 304 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: it was just I love Bill and Ted as a kid, 305 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 2: So like if I needed to explain this to myself 306 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: and would reference something I knew that to get up 307 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: that tracks the next thing I remember. So I mean, 308 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 2: that's really the broad like to put it in like 309 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 2: bullet points. It's like, okay, a loose definition of reincarnation 310 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: is how the universe works. There's an element of randomness 311 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: to it. And like if there is some sort of 312 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: thing as like permanent, like spiritual existence or like a 313 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: true soul, it's something you, I guess I would think 314 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: you'd figure out over like thousands or millions of iterations 315 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 2: of whatever this is. It's conveyed to you each time 316 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 2: you transition in a way that you yourself would write for yourself. 317 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: And as unusual as it was, like I actually wasn't 318 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: upset about it, because again, life was not necessarily in 319 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: a place that made me serially happy again. I wasn't 320 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: like looking forward to any of that, but I was 321 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: just like okay. I saw it as in a way 322 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 2: as like a fresh slate, as this is all happening, 323 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: and like the world sort of despawning and becoming this 324 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: incoherent like synesthesia or synesthesia mess. I was like painfully, 325 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 2: it felt like almost in jolting, like I remember thinking, 326 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 2: it felt like what I imagine it must feel like if 327 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: like computers could feel and they. 328 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 3: Were like powered off with powered on. And I was like. 329 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 2: Back in the waiting room of the OAR in the gown, 330 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: like face down, like drooling on myself, and like I remember, 331 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 2: I could see like that the surgery had been done. 332 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 3: You know, it's like wrapped up with bloody. It's a disaster. 333 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: But I was like extremely, extremely confused, and I couldn't 334 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 2: really move a lot in terms of like muscles, facial muscles, 335 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 2: like I was like almost frozen. And there was a 336 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 2: nurse to ask me if I was ready, and it 337 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 2: took me like a minute to be able. 338 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 3: To talk again last like ready for what? 339 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, you're going to go into this 340 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: operation now, and I was like, no, it already happened, 341 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,719 Speaker 2: because like again I could see the accurate end result 342 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 2: of it, but seatingly, I'm now sitting in the lobby 343 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,719 Speaker 2: before it happened. And then the next thing I know, 344 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 2: I'm just out. It's like a day later. So you know, 345 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 2: I wake up and I'm in one of these rooms, 346 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 2: like literally it's the next afternoon and everything's done. You know, 347 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 2: I start kind of waking up out of the whatever 348 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: you want to call that, and like kind of this 349 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 2: alone with my thoughts thinking about like what did all 350 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: that mean? That was a really interesting dream, but I'm 351 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: not sure how much more it means to me. And 352 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: again I'm now also thinking about like this life or 353 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: the practical like what am I doing now? 354 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 3: Type stuff that you would imagine what would think about. 355 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 3: And so later, you know, there's a nurse. 356 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 2: You know, different nurses would come once every like four 357 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 2: hours just to like see how stuff's doing, medication whatever. 358 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 2: One of the nurses that came by either later that 359 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 2: night or like the next morning, like I don't know what, 360 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: her vibe. 361 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 3: Was just a little bit different. She's like hey. 362 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 2: So there was a big debate about whether to tell 363 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 2: you this or not, but I feel like you have 364 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: a right to know, because like the consensus was that 365 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 2: we shouldn't tell you because you see, like you're in 366 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 2: a bad place right now. But I think it would 367 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 2: be wrong to not tell you. But like you were dead, 368 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: like you were clinically dead briefly during that surgery, and 369 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: that was like the complete. 370 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 3: Mind flocked for me. She's like, I don't know. 371 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 2: She's like, I don't have a ton of details. And again, 372 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: the doctor's opinion was that they shouldn't tell you because 373 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 2: they're not sure it would do you any good mentally. 374 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: But my opinion, I hope you're not upset, would be 375 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 2: for telling you this. 376 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 3: My opinion is that you should know. 377 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 2: And again I still don't know exactly to this day 378 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 2: what that meant, you know, like did my heart stop. 379 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: I don't know even the definition of like true clinical death, 380 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: but I'm guessing just like some conflict with like anesthesia 381 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 2: plus other stuff, that was when it. 382 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 3: Kind of hit me. 383 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: They're like, Okay, maybe this is something thing quite a 384 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: bit more than what it felt like. And that's kind 385 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 2: of what led me to look at the rest of life. 386 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, so. 387 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: Kind of a two step process, Like the actual physical 388 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 2: recovery was more or less what you would expect from 389 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 2: like a skin draft. Think it is just like it's 390 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 2: not much different than like a burn or something where 391 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 2: they think they used skin from one part of your 392 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 2: body to like effectively patch over another part and then. 393 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 3: Just wraps and heels and scars. 394 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: And yeah, the physical recovery pretty straightforward, you know, unpleasant, 395 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: but it was what you would expect for that. But 396 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: why I kind of pretty immediately started really coming out 397 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 2: of the experience and like the surgery all that, like 398 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 2: I suddenly have this certainty if you will, then even 399 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 2: if you know the exact nature of the grander scheme 400 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 2: of like whatever the cosmos in the universe wasn't fully 401 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 2: accurately conveyed to me by me or whatever you want 402 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 2: to call that, that like this new found experience of 403 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 2: just like whatever whatever it is, like, there's more than 404 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 2: just this. Again, it was deeply comforting initially, just in 405 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 2: a time when not a lot of stuff was comforting period. 406 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 2: But what I started to notice pretty much right away 407 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: was that like little things here and there that I 408 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: used to think just didn't matter or were just coincidence, 409 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 2: if you will, like you, I almost started feeling like 410 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 2: you start noticing that just like the nature of reality, 411 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 2: sometimes if you look at it just from a mathematical standpoint, 412 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: like a lot of things just don't make any fucking sense. 413 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 2: I've never been one to prescribe like any sort of 414 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: like theological meaning to this or sort of what I believe, 415 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 2: But initially it just kind of started with seeing little 416 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 2: things as like more beautiful, more interesting, or like more 417 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 2: almost as if like the universe wants you to know 418 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 2: or remember that, like there's something a lot more to 419 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 2: all this, then one could be forgiven forward seeing just 420 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: when you're going about like your typical day to day 421 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: until average experience, if you will, you know, there's a 422 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 2: lot of it's it's easy to fall into the mindset 423 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 2: of like, well, what I do doesn't really matter because 424 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,239 Speaker 2: the end of the day, there's just like nothing to it. 425 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: And like not that I was even remotely close to 426 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 2: being like. 427 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 3: A bad person or like hurting other people or whatever, 428 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 3: but like the idea that you should try to you 429 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 3: should aim to. 430 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: Leave people in places and things of the world in 431 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 2: like a better place than you found it. However, you 432 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: are capable of doing that, actually mattering or being something 433 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 2: you should do, like, wasn't really something I was compelled by. 434 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: And as time has gone on, that's become a more 435 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 2: and more like it matters to me a lot more 436 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 2: I did take away from it. Like again, even if 437 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: there's some element of randomness to the nature of reincarnation 438 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: or whatever you want to call that, I can't imagine 439 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 2: that like. 440 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 3: How you spend the life you know you have right. 441 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: Now doesn't have some sort of impact, and like this 442 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 2: eternal scheme of things that makes sense, Like maybe it 443 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 2: gets better each time if you live as a better 444 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 2: person or like try to. 445 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 3: Do good things. 446 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,479 Speaker 2: You know, if the opportunity to do something that like 447 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 2: comes at the disadvantage of someone else, that like isn't 448 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 2: really the right thing that I could get away with 449 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 2: or whatever. It's like, why wouldn't you do that? And 450 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: my answer now is just kind of like not that 451 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 2: I was doing that before, per se, It's just because 452 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I would know, like 453 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 2: if I was doing shitty things or being just a 454 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: shitty person, even if it was like no one else 455 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: would find out, that still is something I would never 456 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: want to do because it's just like at the end 457 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 2: of the day at least here and now it's just 458 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 2: you and your thoughts and like you're, you know, your 459 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: internal conversation about your behavior or whatever. Yeah, I mean, 460 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: I also wish that was a more common thing that like, 461 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 2: you know, doing the right thing always gets you the 462 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 2: best result, but it doesn't always work that way. 463 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 3: But like the. 464 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 2: Price of knowing that you did a lot of things 465 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 2: that were not the right thing on purpose versus like 466 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: whatever you're the value or the weight. 467 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 5: Of that on I guess your soul will call it, 468 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 5: it's a lot, and it's like not something I want experience, 469 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 5: like feeling guilty. 470 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 3: About the way that I went about things. 471 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: Welcome back. This is a Live again joining me for 472 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: a conversation about today's story. Are my other Alive Against 473 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 1: story producers Lauren Vogelbaum, Nicholas Dakowski, and Brent die And 474 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: I'm your host Dan Bush. 475 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 6: Hi everybody, Hi, Hi, Nick. 476 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 7: Tell us how you found this story and just give 477 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 7: us a little background on it. 478 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 6: I just found his story really fascinating. You know, of 479 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 6: all of these that I've conducted so far, i'd say 480 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 6: like maybe a quarter of them, or what you would 481 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 6: consider classic NDEs, right, you know, because we've focused a 482 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 6: lot on how these things change you and brushes with 483 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 6: death and just how the consciousness of death changes you. 484 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 6: But it's really great to find a story that is 485 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 6: so purely near death, that really is purely transformative, and 486 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 6: that is just it reads like some kind of like 487 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 6: Greek mythology. You know, he is like wandering into the 488 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 6: into the afterlife. 489 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 7: He's got such like a mechanical, mathematical perspective. 490 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 6: On the an engineer's brain. 491 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 7: Yeah, he's got an engineer's brain. And so like he was, 492 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 7: he seemed frustrated that he had to continually have have 493 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 7: the universe, the mechanics of the universe translated into a 494 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 7: language he could understand. So at one point he was 495 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 7: describing being in like a Bill and Ted phone booth, right, 496 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 7: and he was simultaneously on both ends of the call 497 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 7: in this sort of Lynchian kind of weird way, and 498 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 7: he was having to explain to himself how nonlinear time works. 499 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 7: It was just interesting to me that the whole experience 500 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 7: to him is like this metaphor that was really trite 501 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 7: or contrived to him, Like right, like he's in the desert, 502 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 7: there's there's stars, like falling and he just I don't know, 503 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 7: he's great. 504 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, he kept sighing stars again. 505 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 8: And I love that. I love that he has the 506 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 8: nerve to tell the godlike creature that how lame it 507 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 8: is to. 508 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 6: Like yeah, And I think that's kind of great too, 509 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 6: because it has this very acute self awareness to it 510 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 6: that I think that like is is very personalized to 511 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 6: the user in his sense, you know, it's like he's 512 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 6: having this dialogue with himself and there's and there's always 513 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 6: this meta narrative going on. You know, you you can't 514 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 6: just talk about life. You're talking about how you're learning 515 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 6: about life. You know, you're talking about how you're how 516 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 6: you're understanding death, and and there's the critic in sight 517 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 6: of you the whole time going does it have to 518 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 6: be so outenous? And I love that about this, you know, 519 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 6: And if you ever meet this guy, he is very 520 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 6: he is very analytical, and he is very He's always 521 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 6: i think, examining the tropes that the news is delivered 522 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 6: in to him and how he understands things. And I 523 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 6: think that like, yeah, I think that death is no 524 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 6: exception to that. I think, you know, in this sense, 525 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 6: it's like he's dealing with death the same way he's 526 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 6: dealing with life. Our brains are dealing with what we 527 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 6: can understand, and I think that if we are self 528 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 6: aware enough, our brains can kind of roll their eyes 529 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 6: at us. 530 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 7: It was almost like he was he was sort of 531 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 7: annoyed because he knows that he knows that he's I 532 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 7: don't know how about this something like he knows that 533 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 7: his soul is like hyper intelligent, beyond anything that he 534 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 7: and his human form could ever comprehend, and it's attainable, 535 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 7: but there's a wall between him and that I don't know, 536 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 7: And it was frustrating to him that that He's like, 537 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 7: I know that I'm brilliant on multiple dimensional levels, but 538 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 7: right now I'm still stuck in this one forum and 539 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 7: I'm having to have this shit translated to me like 540 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 7: a dog or something. 541 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like it's like I could just get to 542 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 6: the secrets of the universe if it weren't for this 543 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 6: gold darn meat wall of it every day though, I mean, 544 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 6: come on, the software is incredible, but the hardware is 545 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 6: like a Commodore sixty four. It's like I cannot I 546 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 6: cannot get three of the actual housing that I am 547 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 6: in in order to you know, really understand this, and 548 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 6: that that also that that thing about like the fifty percent, 549 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 6: If I go past fifty percent into this other form, 550 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 6: then there's it's irreversible. 551 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 7: His idea of reincarnations that we just slowly do from 552 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 7: one form into another entity. If you get over the 553 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 7: fifty point of the new makeup, then you can't you 554 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 7: can't go back, right. 555 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 6: But I also I also think that like he doesn't 556 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 6: state this explicitly, but I think it's kind of implicit. 557 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 6: Implicit to that is that like, you know, again, that's 558 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 6: his current form. What keeps him from crossing over is 559 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 6: like his sort of ego. It's his current form. It's 560 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 6: like it's it's the the reticence to go into the 561 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 6: unknown that we all sort of have, even though we're 562 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 6: so interested in it, you know. And I think that 563 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 6: that that that is a very universal human thing. There's 564 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 6: a draw toward the dark, there's the lapel du v, 565 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 6: the call of the void. But then there's the part 566 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 6: of you that's. 567 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 9: Like, yeah, but like I want to have a hamburger 568 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 9: for lunch. They're not done with the pleasures of the 569 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 9: flesh yet. I want to open myself to universal understanding, 570 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 9: because I've got like, the severance. 571 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 6: Isn't over you, right, you know, I still don't have 572 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 6: a c And by the time you listen to this severance, 573 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 6: season two will have ended. And I sure god if 574 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 6: any of you bastards come back with the time machine 575 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 6: or try to reach out through the void to me 576 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 6: to ruin this. But anyway, Yeah, it's just I think 577 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 6: that there's this like fantastic, fantastic push and pull between 578 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 6: this life and the next. In this story, he. 579 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: Goes from the shift of seeing life as statistically miraculous 580 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: but utterly meaningless. 581 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 7: At the beginning, he starts off with that kind of 582 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 7: it's like, Okay, statistically all of this is crazy that 583 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 7: it even exists, so we should all feel like we 584 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 7: hit the jackpot just to be alive, right, although there's 585 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 7: no inherent meaning in any of it. And he went 586 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 7: from that to this other quite different feeling of certainty 587 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 7: that there is more to reality than what meets the eye. 588 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 6: Right, sort of sort of nihilism into some foremost existentialism, 589 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 6: I guess, yeah, But he went from. 590 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: Also from skepticism into this sort of certainty, like he says, 591 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: he described it as a certainty. 592 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 3: Right, He's sure that there is. 593 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 7: More, there's more to this reality than what we are 594 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 7: currently experiencing. 595 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 6: Shit, that sounds comforting, Yeah, And it. 596 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 10: Was comforting ultimately that the greater version of himself or 597 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 10: the greater version of the connected universe was trying so 598 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 10: hard to put it into even like slightly condescending terms 599 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 10: that he would understand. I was very comforted by that. 600 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 10: I was like, Oh, that's so nice, like thank you, Like, okay, well. 601 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: I love that. 602 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 8: I love that he thinks that his experience is such 603 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 8: a cliche nde, but this are the most original near 604 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 8: death experience I've ever heard. Like, we've kind of dismissed 605 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 8: a lot of these. I passed on to the other 606 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 8: realm and I met a spiritual guide and this is 607 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 8: what happened to me just out of hand. But the 608 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 8: concept that your body dissolves to this fifty percent point, 609 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 8: or the fact that this godlike figure that is speaking 610 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 8: to you is the representation of every authority figure that 611 00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 8: you respected. 612 00:32:59,400 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 6: In your life. 613 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 8: I was like, those are some really original takes on 614 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 8: this story that we've heard many many times. 615 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 6: And but the but the but the the the spiritual 616 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 6: guide leading you through this is also you somehow like 617 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 6: I love this idea, but it also you know, in 618 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 6: a sense, it really opens it up to like, you know, 619 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 6: reincarnation being like the self resolving back into the pool, 620 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 6: you know, before before coming back. 621 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 7: But it's so striking his awareness of his own projections, 622 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 7: Like he's like he's he was so aware during this 623 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 7: vision that it was being put into terms that he 624 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 7: can understand down to, like, oh, I love Bill and 625 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 7: Ted's excellent adventure. So this is the Bill and Ted 626 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 7: phone booth, and of course I'm talking to myself, you know. 627 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 7: It's so fascinating. 628 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, like that that he plays the teacher and the 629 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 6: student in this that just opens up so many fascinating 630 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 6: other philosophical questions. You know, if you take this story 631 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 6: as as biblical truth, it just opens up so many 632 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 6: fascinating philosophical questions about you know, are we separate from 633 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 6: the universe? Are we an individual entity? Are we just 634 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 6: kind of like I don't know, trapped in these sort 635 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 6: of like meat antennas. Who are who are absorbed? You know, 636 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 6: who like pick up the spiritual like the soul is 637 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 6: really just a radio signal and our little meat radios, 638 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 6: you know, and that when that meat radio turns off, 639 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 6: it doesn't mean that the radio waves go away, They 640 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 6: just go to another meat radio. 641 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 8: But like he says, he doesn't want to do anything 642 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 8: to damage his soul. You know, like there is something 643 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 8: that persists through each of these destructive and creative acts 644 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 8: that is singular to your experience. I think is kind 645 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 8: of a fascinating thought. 646 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 7: Yeah, if before he potentially was like, I don't know 647 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 7: that any actions or consequences really matter in the grand 648 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 7: scheme of things, And in the end of this experience 649 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 7: he was kind of going, actually, yeah, it's you know, 650 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 7: you're not doing yourself any favors if you're aggressive or 651 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 7: mean to other people, like kind of hinting at some 652 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 7: sort of karmic rule, right, Yeah, I don't know. I 653 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 7: don't know how he put it, but it was like, 654 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 7: you're not doing yourself any favors by being mean to 655 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 7: people or by being an asshole. You've got to be 656 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 7: compassionate if you want to access deeper levels of yourself. 657 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 10: Eventually, even if no one else is there to see 658 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 10: you being an asshole, right, you're still seeing it, and 659 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 10: that is that is important, right. 660 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 6: And in a sense damaging to the soul. 661 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 11: Next week on a Live Again, we meet Brooke Nisley, 662 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 11: who's fall from a tree led her into sobriety, a 663 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 11: new method for organizing your life, and a hair raising 664 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 11: encounter with a man who wasn't what he seemed. 665 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 12: I don't regret falling out of the tree, and I 666 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 12: don't regret the brain damage. I wouldn't have got sober otherwise, 667 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 12: I realize now I'm not happy all the time, but 668 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 12: you're not supposed to be happy all of the time. 669 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent die 670 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakoski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett, additional 671 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick 672 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional 673 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima L. K Ali 674 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: and Noames Griffin. Today's episode was edited by Mike w Anderson, 675 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: mixing by Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host 676 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: Dan Bush. Special thanks to Robert for sharing his story. 677 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: Alive Again is a production of I Art Radio and 678 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: Psychopia Pictures. If you have a transformative near death experience 679 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: to share. We'd love to hear your story. Please email 680 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: us at Alive Again Project at gmail dot com. That's 681 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: a l i v e A g A I N 682 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: p R O j E C T at gmail dot 683 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 1: com