1
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome to the show, ridiculous Historians. Have you ever

2
00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,000
Speaker 1: heard of a barracuda also known as a bilker, a bunco,

3
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,200
Speaker 1: a hustler, a swindler, a crook, or perhaps most familiar,

4
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,159
Speaker 1: a con man barracuda? I know, isn't that cool? One

5
00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,160
Speaker 1: of those that's that is a synonym for connor. I've

6
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,400
Speaker 1: never heard this before, Ben Well, neither of I nol

7
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,519
Speaker 1: have you, super producer Casey pegram? That is not a

8
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 1: usage I'm familiar with. Let's bring it back. I think

9
00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,040
Speaker 1: we should welcome to the show. This is ridiculous history.

10
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,680
Speaker 1: And I've got to say, well, you know how, sometimes

11
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if this happens to you. Sometimes when

12
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm doing research, I'll fall into a tangential rabbit hole.

13
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,240
Speaker 1: So in our time researching this episode, I fell into

14
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole of con artist culture and synonyms clearly

15
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: and grifters, Oh, we should have said grifter that's my favorite,

16
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 1: and all the different slang terms attributed to this this

17
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:31,680
Speaker 1: subculture of this industry, and today's show does ultimately concern

18
00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 1: what I have to say is an objectively impressive grift. Yeah,

19
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,600
Speaker 1: and an objectively impressive grift from an objectively detestable human person.

20
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh, terrible garbage train of a person for sure,

21
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 1: and often described as an adventurer, which seems like a

22
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,400
Speaker 1: cool job title, but we'll find, in his case is

23
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 1: maybe a little more generous than he deserves. But no,

24
00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 1: could you introduce us to this fellow Gregor McGregor. Gregor

25
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,520
Speaker 1: McGregor sounds made up the way, do you hear his

26
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 1: his his other his other name. Um, yeah, he's sort of.

27
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,240
Speaker 1: He once was a rosy cheeked young lad from the

28
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,720
Speaker 1: Scottish Highlands. He came from fighting stock, as this fantastic

29
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 1: article from History Today by Victor Allen points out. You see,

30
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,680
Speaker 1: his grandfather, Um was a well known klansman. That's not

31
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 1: a like a ku Ku klux klansman, a klansman uh

32
00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,680
Speaker 1: in the Scottish tradition, Um whose name in Gaelic was

33
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 1: Gregor the Beautiful, And he was a member of something

34
00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:37,280
Speaker 1: called the Black Watch. And also Um kind of became

35
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:43,080
Speaker 1: an important figure in a region called Inverden in Brettelbaine,

36
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,079
Speaker 1: and he became something called a laird, which I imagine

37
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 1: to be a lord right right, And those terms are

38
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 1: also not made up. We have to point out that

39
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 1: this Gregor the beautiful thing was probably not meant uh

40
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,800
Speaker 1: sarcastically like little John or something. It wasn't a super

41
00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 1: ugly dude. No. I think he was probably a bit

42
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,920
Speaker 1: of a hunk because his grandson Gregor, uh, you know,

43
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 1: in all the portraits that we've been able to find him,

44
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,960
Speaker 1: pretty dashing figure. Real smoke show. Absolutely, well, welcome to

45
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 1: the Wow wow man, you got some feels about They

46
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 1: just wanted an excuse to use this wonderful phrase that

47
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 1: John Oliver used recently. What a smoke show or a

48
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 1: snack absolute snack described it, and I thought, wow, John Oliver,

49
00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,160
Speaker 1: that's pretty racy. Well you, and I'll tell you one

50
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 1: thing that's very snack able about him are his delicious

51
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,280
Speaker 1: mutton chops, because they are a thing of beauty. My friend.

52
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,040
Speaker 1: So he had a career in a military career, pretty

53
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: storied military career, didn't he. Yeah, yeah, he had years

54
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 1: and years of service in the British Army. And let's

55
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about how he got wrapped

56
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:59,040
Speaker 1: up in all these military shenanigans and escapades. McGregor, you see,

57
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,839
Speaker 1: joined the British Charmy at sixteen, which was that you

58
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,840
Speaker 1: have to be at least sixteen to join the army

59
00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,040
Speaker 1: at this time. He joined in April eighteen oh three.

60
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,920
Speaker 1: Oh wait, we have to go back, did we say

61
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:15,640
Speaker 1: when he was born December sevent crucial crucial dt crucialde

62
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 1: crucial d December in fact? Anyhow, fast forward, he's sixteen.

63
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,320
Speaker 1: April of eighteen o three. He signs up for the

64
00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,640
Speaker 1: British Army. His family had purchased a commission for him

65
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 1: to serve as an insign in the fifty seven West

66
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,839
Speaker 1: Middlesex Regiment of Foot. Purchased a commission for him, like

67
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,240
Speaker 1: bought his way into a cushy military job, bought his

68
00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,039
Speaker 1: way to officers status. So it cost around UH four

69
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,400
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pounds. Because his family is pretty well off,

70
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 1: you know, he's got yeah, he's got a landed grandfather, right,

71
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,880
Speaker 1: so when he enters the military. Funny story. At the

72
00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 1: same time, something called the Napoleonic Wars is occurring in Europe.

73
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 1: I feel as though we've heard of this before. I

74
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,560
Speaker 1: think so. I think so. Long time listeners may may

75
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,039
Speaker 1: have a vague image of bunnies hopping into their heads

76
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:17,520
Speaker 1: and steamy fan Fick involving are Born Napoleon and Alexander Bazaar. Yes,

77
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 1: it was bizarre, to say the least worth it. Thank you,

78
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 1: I'll be here for the rest of the show. Good.

79
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,919
Speaker 1: I need you, I need you, Ben, I need you.

80
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,919
Speaker 1: Are you gonna stay for the rest of this show too?

81
00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,480
Speaker 1: We'll see Okay, great, we'll play it by ear And

82
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:36,240
Speaker 1: that's what McGregor was doing. Nice. Thanks. So he does

83
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,520
Speaker 1: serve in the military, and at this time he is

84
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:46,320
Speaker 1: actually doing the work. Uh. In February eighteen o four,

85
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,680
Speaker 1: less than a year into his training, he is promoted

86
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,560
Speaker 1: without purchasing a commission, so he earns the rank of lieutenant.

87
00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,159
Speaker 1: And this is important because that kind of advancement usually

88
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,120
Speaker 1: takes longer, like three years. Yeah, and what was he

89
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,480
Speaker 1: like in his twenties? He would uh still not be twenty.

90
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: He would be around like maybe just about to turn eighteen.

91
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:13,280
Speaker 1: This is an eighteen four or four And as he

92
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:20,880
Speaker 1: is serving the British Army, he is still networking with people.

93
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: He meets the daughter of a Royal Navy admiral named

94
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:30,760
Speaker 1: Maria bow Watter and she had a pretty hefty dowry,

95
00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 1: didn't he didn't he wife her up. He did, he did,

96
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,960
Speaker 1: he wiped her up. Uh. He also bought the rank

97
00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,040
Speaker 1: of captain for about nine hundred pounds, and he could

98
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,760
Speaker 1: have waited to get the promotion to earn it, but

99
00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,880
Speaker 1: that would have taken seven years. And he was a

100
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,919
Speaker 1: man on a mission. The palms being greased in this situation,

101
00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 1: aren't there, Ben, And I think we're already seeing some

102
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:59,479
Speaker 1: foreshadowing of our boy h Gregor McGregor's slippery nature. That's right, Noal,

103
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 1: And we see his extroverted nature go international pretty soon

104
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,600
Speaker 1: when he is in his twenties. He doesn't just stay

105
00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: in Europe, you see. Uh. He is interested, intrigued by

106
00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:21,280
Speaker 1: the colonial revolts against Spanish rule in Latin America, particularly Venezuela, Venezuela,

107
00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,080
Speaker 1: and he kind of joins forces or offers his services

108
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:30,400
Speaker 1: to I guess, um, this guy Simon Bolivar Bolivar, right,

109
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,760
Speaker 1: he is like the head or the leader of the

110
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 1: this kind of rebellion. His nickname was the Liberator. In

111
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 1: fact earned that nickname by liberating um what is now

112
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:48,000
Speaker 1: the republics of Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Panama, uh and Bolivia.

113
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,320
Speaker 1: UM made them sovereign states and freed them from Spanish rule.

114
00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 1: And this is all in the midst of that hubub

115
00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,720
Speaker 1: there right, yes, yeah, absolutely, So how does a how

116
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 1: does a young scotsman throw his hat in the ring

117
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,160
Speaker 1: to to a revolt like this? I guess they needed

118
00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,760
Speaker 1: all the help they can get, or what they need

119
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,920
Speaker 1: all the help we could get. Also, we should point

120
00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,800
Speaker 1: out that in December of eighteen eleven, Maria McGregor had

121
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 1: passed away, so he is now no longer a married man.

122
00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,760
Speaker 1: When he arrives in Venezuela, it's not long after an

123
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,760
Speaker 1: earthquake has destroyed a lot of the city. This is

124
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,439
Speaker 1: in April of eighteen twelve. Uh, some of the country

125
00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,440
Speaker 1: was under control of advancing Royalist armies. The revolutionary government

126
00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:42,599
Speaker 1: was starting to collapse on itself and break into different factions.

127
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 1: McGregor didn't want to talk about his titles, and you know,

128
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,839
Speaker 1: in in his European life, he wanted to seem pretty

129
00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 1: legit to the Republicans, so he kept calling himself Sir Gregor,

130
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: and then he started claiming he was a Knight of

131
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 1: the Portuguese Order of Christ. And then he offered his

132
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:13,240
Speaker 1: services to Venezuelan revolutionaries. The first one he offered his

133
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,200
Speaker 1: service to was a guy named Francisco de Miranda, and

134
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,439
Speaker 1: Francisco ended up being a pretty good person for McGregor

135
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 1: to know. We'll see throughout this that McGregor uses people

136
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,199
Speaker 1: and throws them away. He had promoted McGregor eventually to

137
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 1: brigadier general in twelve but he also this guy Miranda.

138
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 1: Um was really fascinated by the idea of kind of

139
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,160
Speaker 1: having a new Incan empire in South America, like where

140
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,880
Speaker 1: the streets would be paved with gold and the trees

141
00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 1: would be overflowing with ripe fruit, and it would be

142
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,000
Speaker 1: just this like kind of Shangra law or Eten type paradise, right,

143
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,480
Speaker 1: And this is a notion that I think he started

144
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 1: implanting in McGregor's head that will kind of come out

145
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 1: in the story. Very very yeah. Yeah, good call, good call.

146
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:09,760
Speaker 1: So eventually things go wrong for Francisco de Miranda, who

147
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 1: apparently it also just a side note here been uh

148
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 1: knocking boots with Catherine the Great? Did you see that?

149
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,080
Speaker 1: Just occasionally? I think just occasionally. They didn't want to

150
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 1: put a label on it, you know what I mean,

151
00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,760
Speaker 1: very forward thinking, it was complicated. It was a time

152
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 1: of revolution, so unfortunately, Francisco de Miranda had been captured

153
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,680
Speaker 1: by Spanish forces and he had been shipped off to

154
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:40,680
Speaker 1: prison where he spent four years chained to a wall. McGregor. However,

155
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,480
Speaker 1: despite losing his patron at this point or his main

156
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,120
Speaker 1: connection with the military structure, he continues on his journey

157
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,160
Speaker 1: and he makes a name for himself. People say, hey,

158
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 1: have you guys seen a brave that guy is? Have

159
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,560
Speaker 1: you seen what a great leader he is? Or more

160
00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,480
Speaker 1: likely I held my hand in front of the mic

161
00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,240
Speaker 1: like I'm whispering. I want I want everyone to know

162
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,000
Speaker 1: that I did that. Even though you can't see still

163
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 1: doing it, I'm still doing and feeling feeling this moment. No,

164
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 1: because yeah, they said he was courageous, and they said

165
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 1: he was a great leader. Look at those chops, look

166
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 1: at those beautiful, gorgeous mutton shops. Or did he just

167
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,200
Speaker 1: make up stories wherein he looked courageous and looked like

168
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 1: a good leader. Yeah. But that's the thing though in

169
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,560
Speaker 1: and around this time, and it will become even more

170
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 1: apparent once our boy kind of makes the trip back

171
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,839
Speaker 1: to his home country. In London, things were not so good.

172
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 1: People wanted heroes. They wanted to believe these kinds of stories.

173
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,760
Speaker 1: They wanted to look up to someone like this guy

174
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 1: and be able to say, Hey, look at that shining

175
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,520
Speaker 1: example of a man with those delightful mutton shops. I

176
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,440
Speaker 1: want to follow that guy. That's really good context to

177
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 1: put on this. And I think you're absolutely correct. People

178
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,280
Speaker 1: need a hero, right, And whether he is a real

179
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,880
Speaker 1: hero or not, Uh, it's debatable. We'll we'll leave that

180
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,800
Speaker 1: decision to you folks. Regardless. He rose from the position

181
00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 1: of staff colonel to the general of Division in the

182
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,960
Speaker 1: Army of Venezuela and New Granada when he was only

183
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,720
Speaker 1: thirty years old, and he was kicking keysters and taking names.

184
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,120
Speaker 1: He fought in a ton of battles and still leagued

185
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:28,679
Speaker 1: up with this venezuelan Um revolutionary right, right, And he

186
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 1: became known for these epic campaigns and his role in

187
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:40,080
Speaker 1: these pivotal, decisive battles attracts national attention. And and Simon Bolivar,

188
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,280
Speaker 1: who we mentioned just a second ago, also comes in

189
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:50,000
Speaker 1: person to award McGregor these various accolades for his actions

190
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 1: of wartime. Yeah, like serious accolades he was awarded, Uh,

191
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,959
Speaker 1: the insignia of the Order of the Libertatores, which was

192
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 1: the name of the militaristic group that Boulivard headed up.

193
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,920
Speaker 1: And McGregor was more than ready and willing to capitalize

194
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,040
Speaker 1: on these accolades, um, you know, in in in order

195
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 1: to earn some serious coin. Yes. Yeah, he got married

196
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 1: again to a relative of the Supreme Commander Boulevard. And

197
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:30,840
Speaker 1: he also found that peace was sort of a letdown

198
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 1: to him, you know. Yeah, I mean not only that,

199
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 1: it's just like in peace, there's there's no money to

200
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,000
Speaker 1: be made, and that's what he was after. Where's the

201
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,640
Speaker 1: next Griffin? Yeah exactly, I mean because I don't know,

202
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,280
Speaker 1: it's weird he's he's up to now? He does. He

203
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,240
Speaker 1: certainly is part of some some conflicts that make him

204
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,360
Speaker 1: seem like you could view him as some kind of

205
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,400
Speaker 1: like military genius or you know, some kind of like

206
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 1: war hero. But it does feel like he was rising

207
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 1: in the ranks all the while, sometimes using payoffs and

208
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,200
Speaker 1: sometimes um you know, throwing people out of the bus

209
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,600
Speaker 1: and using people for their influence. But it all seemed

210
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,520
Speaker 1: pretty self serving. But I don't know, maybe that's just politics. Yeah, yeah,

211
00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 1: maybe it is, because he continued fighting his own kind

212
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,320
Speaker 1: of private war, and so after his time in Venezuela,

213
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,240
Speaker 1: where he finds peace, anti climactic and let's be honest,

214
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,520
Speaker 1: not all that profitable, he leads a series of independent

215
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 1: military campaigns in the Caribbean, and History dot Com has

216
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 1: a great as a great article on this by Evan Andrews,

217
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 1: but I won't want to read the title yet because

218
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 1: we don't want to spoil the story. He did something

219
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:44,400
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. He just arbitrarily would promote the people who

220
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,680
Speaker 1: worked for him, the different freebooters that he was hiring

221
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,040
Speaker 1: and mercenaries and like, oh, I like the cut of

222
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 1: your jib. You're you're a lieutenant. Now my crew, right.

223
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 1: And his big tent campaign in this period of his

224
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,520
Speaker 1: life was the brief capture of Florida's Amelia Island from

225
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:10,800
Speaker 1: the Spanish. He also was not the most impressive military commander,

226
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,880
Speaker 1: at least by this point. He was known to immediately

227
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 1: desert his army. There you go, here's some chinks in

228
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 1: the armor been given. He was because he cultivated his

229
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 1: image of himself and then clearly that was more important

230
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 1: than actually being you know, a good guy or an

231
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,160
Speaker 1: effective leader. Yeah, yeah, that's that's the truth. That's what

232
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,000
Speaker 1: we're alluding to earlier when we talked about his courage

233
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,480
Speaker 1: and his leadership. It turns out that he as long

234
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,240
Speaker 1: as everything was going fine for his army, he was

235
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 1: completely on board and down for the cause. However, if

236
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,880
Speaker 1: things appeared to go south, sideways or pear shaped, as

237
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,600
Speaker 1: they say in the UK, he would ghost. But he

238
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:56,280
Speaker 1: still kept his knack for self promotion and deception. So

239
00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 1: the accounts he would tell of various military conflicts differed

240
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 1: from the accounts everybody else would tell, and he became known,

241
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 1: at least in this area of the world. It's very

242
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:14,760
Speaker 1: important detail as a bit of a blustering braggart but

243
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,960
Speaker 1: still still a charmer, just very self aggrandizing and a

244
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,040
Speaker 1: guy who thought he was the smartest person in the

245
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:29,239
Speaker 1: room and was convinced that he could sell anyone on anything. Yeah,

246
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 1: and as we're gonna find out, he kind of could. Yes,

247
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:40,600
Speaker 1: should we just jump there? Oh, we definitely should we

248
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,000
Speaker 1: can jump there? In the form of a slight lead

249
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,400
Speaker 1: up in that he kind of waged what the History

250
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,800
Speaker 1: Today article very ustuely describes as a private war where

251
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,440
Speaker 1: he um Included in that was that capture of that

252
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 1: fortress that you mentioned. But most importantly him and his associates,

253
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 1: these this band of brigging. I guess that he's sort

254
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,400
Speaker 1: of a masked landed on the mainland of Nicaragua, um

255
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 1: where there is a stretch of coast, a region called

256
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:16,080
Speaker 1: the Mosquito Coast, yes, also known as the Mosquito Kingdom. Yeah,

257
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,359
Speaker 1: this is this is an important part here. Nowadays it's

258
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,399
Speaker 1: the eastern coast of Nicaragua and Honduras. Just a little

259
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,359
Speaker 1: bit of southern Honduras shares this area, but the Mosquito

260
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 1: Coast was generally thought of as the domain of the

261
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 1: Mosquito or Mosquito Kingdom, and they had an interesting tension

262
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:47,040
Speaker 1: in this area between the British, the US and the

263
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:52,359
Speaker 1: countries of Nicaragua and Honduras, not to mention the Native America,

264
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,880
Speaker 1: the native people Indians, right, yeah, And we had a

265
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 1: strange situation here because the Mosquito people had their own

266
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:07,720
Speaker 1: rulers or kings, and they had a specific name, right Yeah,

267
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 1: that's right, man. They had something of a king who

268
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 1: was called the Casque series of kings, Yes, series of kings.

269
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 1: This is the Cassique King of the Mosquito Indians. Um,

270
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 1: and this individual made a bit of a devil's bargain

271
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:27,679
Speaker 1: with our boy McGregor. Yeah. And so for context, the Cassique,

272
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,200
Speaker 1: the kings of the this area of the Mosquio people,

273
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:36,440
Speaker 1: allowed foreigners to settle in their lands so long as

274
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,160
Speaker 1: their overall sovereignty was respected. And a lot of British

275
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 1: merchants and Garifuna people from Honduras took advantage of this.

276
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 1: And one of these kings, one of these kausikuess makes

277
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 1: a deal with Gregor McGregor four. I believe it was

278
00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,360
Speaker 1: thirty thirty miles of land and it was on what's

279
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 1: known as the Poias Shore. Uh. And so with that

280
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 1: land grant, that surely was on the up and up,

281
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 1: and he made this deal right, surely, every all the

282
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 1: all the teas were crossed and the eyes were dotted. Yeah,

283
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 1: I'm convinced. Yeah. So, with this deal having been made,

284
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 1: McGregor makes his way back to England, to London in particular, uh,

285
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 1: making some pretty outrageous claims. Right. Yeah. So after he

286
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 1: makes a steal in eighteen twenty, he becomes a whole

287
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 1: new Gregor McGregor. He is the Prince of Poias. Uh.

288
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 1: He's named his newfound dominion Poias, and boy is Poios

289
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 1: a great place. This is where we see the inspiration

290
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 1: he received from Miranda's vision of a new Incoln Empire.

291
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 1: Popping back up again, he described this place in very hyperbolic, fascinating,

292
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: almost too good to be truish terms. Yeah, like stuff

293
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,159
Speaker 1: like flowing with milk and honey, you know, fruit trees

294
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 1: spilling with delicious ripe fruit water so pure that that

295
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: it would quench any thirst. I think was one of

296
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 1: them right then, and he claimed he was the Kazique

297
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 1: or the king slash prince of this area, and that

298
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,400
Speaker 1: this was an obscure but prosperous nation. And not only

299
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 1: was it a hidden gem across the sea, but it

300
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: was an act now situation because you see, Londoners, you

301
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: too can be part of the dream. The kazk of

302
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: Poyas has come on a mission to solicit investments and

303
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 1: to recruit potential settlers. Right. And there's a super cool

304
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 1: exert from a book by Maria Knakova that is on

305
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: the BBC um that talks about some of the psychological

306
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 1: principles of persuasion that con men used, in particular that

307
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 1: Gregor McGregor used, do you want to talk through some

308
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 1: of those? Sure, let's let's round robin it. There are six.

309
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: The first is reciprocity. Reciprocity, I'll scratch your back, you

310
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 1: scratch my coming from McGregor. Hey, I'm giving you this

311
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,120
Speaker 1: chance of a lifetime. All you gotta do for me

312
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 1: is give me all your money. And then consistency of behavior,

313
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: meaning that whether it is true or a lie, I

314
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: am going to believe the same thing I did yesterday,

315
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,919
Speaker 1: right right exactly. Then we have social validation, which is

316
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 1: super important because it's basically like, if I'm saying to you, Ben, Ben,

317
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: you've gotta do this. It's gonna make you a real,

318
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 1: real true scotsman, a real true man's man, Robinson Crusoe type,

319
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, going out and taming the wilds. And at

320
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 1: the same time it's gonna be awesome, so don't worry

321
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, And there's there's a clever thing there too,

322
00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 1: because the social validation there is I have typically chosen

323
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 1: you to be part of this for your merits that

324
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: are just on display, but I want you to be

325
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 1: part of my new utopia. Also, this is just between us.

326
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: I like you as a person. That's number four. You know,

327
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: we're we're friends, were buddies, were you know, your your

328
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 1: pal with the Kazique of Poia. How cool is that?

329
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: And here's a really important way and you see, it's funny.

330
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 1: You can see a mix of these being used and

331
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: everything from like offers on Facebook and things too, like

332
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: ticket sales. You notice how every time you see an

333
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: ad for like concert tickets, they always say, really going quick, quick,

334
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: get them now. You gotta get them while they're hot,

335
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: because there's just not enough to go around. Because it's

336
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: just such an amazing opportunity. Um. And if you don't

337
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: do it, somebody else will, so you better hop on it.

338
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: And then finally, what do we have? Yes, finally authority.

339
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: I know what I am talking about. And not only that,

340
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: this is my favorite part of this whole story. Actually

341
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: McGregor actually wrote a book, yes, under an assumed name,

342
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 1: um called Sketch of the Mosquito Shore including the Territory

343
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: of Poias. And it was written by a man by

344
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: the name of Thomas Strange Ways. Thomas Strange Ways, Captain

345
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: Thomas Strange Yes, Captain Thomas exactly. But yeah, I mean

346
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: everything all signs point to this was in fact McGregor,

347
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: so he was like laying the groundwork for this griff.

348
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: This is a long con man. Yeah, and people did

349
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: not have the same I guess I don't want to

350
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: say where withal, but they didn't have the same resources,

351
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: access to fact checking that we have today to verify information.

352
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: So Tom is strange Ways. Excuse me again. Captain Thomas

353
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: strange Ways just had a really interesting name, sounded like

354
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: a great well traveled adventurer, and in very idyllic bucolic terms,

355
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: described this hitherto unknown nation of poo. Yeah, and he

356
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: described it just as we described it, and just as

357
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: McGregor described it as this place, oh gold just overflowing

358
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: from the river everywhere, just everywhere, lousy with gold. And

359
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: here's the thing with that authority point of persuasion, this

360
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: makes it even better because he's saying, don't don't take

361
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: my word for it. Check out this guy, Captain strange Ways.

362
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: He's been there, He wrote a book about who would

363
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: write a book about it if it wasn't true. Yeah,

364
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: I was quite delighted to find that my tiny, beautiful

365
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: nation was the subject of a book you seem well

366
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: read you've surely heard of the sketches right here. Here's

367
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: a little little little spit from the preface uh Mosquito Show,

368
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: including the territory of Poias being impressed with a thorough

369
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: conviction of the immense benefit which not only the native

370
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: tribes of Mosquitia, but the neighboring countries in general, must

371
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,479
Speaker 1: derive from the civilization an improvement of one of the

372
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: fairest portions of the globe. Has endeavored in the following

373
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: sheets to attract the attention of enlightened Europeans to the subject,

374
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: by combining the knowledge of its history, natural productions, the

375
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: best mode of culture, and et cetera, which he acquired

376
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: during a portion of his life spent in that part

377
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: of the world. This is was that you're Matt Berry.

378
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: I don't know kind of it was. It was it

379
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: was yeah, y no. But so this is this is

380
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: so mata because this is McGregor writing a preface like

381
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: you know himself for strange for strange ways, who is

382
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: also himself And it's it's long preface. We know that

383
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: sounded like a lot thing, but that's just a exerpt.

384
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: It's just an exer But the point is it's from

385
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: the start. It reads like a treatise for how awesome

386
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: this place is. It's like like a timeshare pamphlet or

387
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: an infomercial that purports to be a documentary. Right and

388
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: at this time, now that he's reinvented himself as the Kazique,

389
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: as he Highness Gregor, he is a fixture in London's

390
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: high society. Wealthy aristocrats set him and his wife up

391
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: in a country home. The Lord Mayor holds a banquet

392
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: in his honor and people start to trust him because

393
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: he's charming, and he cites all his past military achievements,

394
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: and you know what, I've got to stop just for

395
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: a second. Strange ways is just such a terrible, terrible name.

396
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: It's like Timmy McGreal name. I mean, Gregor McGregor's not

397
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: grave either, yeah, but it's real. Yeah, but that's the

398
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: real one. That's just so weird. I'm not making fun

399
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: of Scottish names. I just think any name were like

400
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: the first name in the last name or the same

401
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: inherently absurd sounding to me. But that's just my opinion. Yeah, yeah,

402
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: there's you know, Humbert, Humbert, all that sort of stuff.

403
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: But even though he's Gregor McGregor. Excuse me, his highness,

404
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 1: the Kazique Gregor. He is really and genuinely winning people

405
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: over because he doesn't us come with great stories. He

406
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: doesn't just come with a book that he didn't write.

407
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: He also, you see, has tons and tons of official documents,

408
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: all kinds of paperwork. He has a handwritten land grant

409
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: from the Mosquito King, which is a great band name. Uh.

410
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 1: He has a national flag. He has charts and maps

411
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: showing the location and border of poy Us. Think he

412
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: even had some currency from the Bank of poi Us. Yes,

413
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: he has currency. I think they call it what one

414
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: hard note? Oh, and it says at the bottom, by

415
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: order of his Highness Gregor Kazke of Pus. Yes, and uh.

416
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: He the problem with all this stuff one hard dollar

417
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: one hard dollar, which is a weird phrase. Yeah, But

418
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: the problem with all of this documentation is that almost

419
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: all of it is entirely fabricated by him. He has

420
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: he has made up these dollars. And remember that crazy

421
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: fraudulent music festival called Firefest that happened last year with

422
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: the jaw rule. I think I think rule was involved,

423
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: that's right. But basically what it was was a total

424
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: bait and switch where they were selling these premium packages

425
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: to you know, rabid bougie concert goers to go to

426
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: this like private island where this concert was going to

427
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: be held, and everyone showed up and they were expecting

428
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: all these crazy accommodations and like there was nothing. It

429
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: was just trash. It was these like crappy tents. There

430
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: was just like you know, sand no way, just just

431
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: just totally filthy and and absolute, you know, just complete grift.

432
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: That's what the the handful of hapless settlers who abandoned

433
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: their homes for a better life under the benevolent uh

434
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: you know, hand of the Kazik of of Poias, that's

435
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: what they found. Well, yeah, it sounds crazy, but let's

436
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: let's step back a little and see how it happened.

437
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: Because he flew its two pounds sterling Poias bond in

438
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: the London money market, and then he also starts selling

439
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: land and titles. Two would be colonists and you could

440
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: get a pretty good deal. For just eleven pounds, you

441
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: could purchase one hundred acres of Poia farmland, and if

442
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: you were a little more well to do, you could

443
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: buy a post as an officer in the military the

444
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: same way the Kazeke became. Yeah, well, you know, paying forward,

445
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: paying forward, you know, in the sleaziest way possible. And

446
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: how crazy that the value of those bonds you mentioned

447
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: just balloon over time. Yeah. Yeah, And in September eighteen two,

448
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: a ship called the Honduras Packet set sail from London

449
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: with as as you said, a handful of people bound

450
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: for Poia, probably with their land deeds clutched in their hands.

451
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: And that first ship only took about what several dozen people. Yeah,

452
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: and there's a second one called the Kinnersley Castle. Um,

453
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: and I believe between the two there was two d

454
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: and fifty folks in total. And they were just expecting paradise,

455
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: you know, as as as well they should have given,

456
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: you know, the salesmanship of of our guy McGregor. Yeah.

457
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: So these people who are called powers, most of them

458
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: invested their entire life savings in this journey. As you said, Nold,

459
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: they sold their houses. Somebody even converted all their cash

460
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: to hard poised dollars. Shaking my head. I feel bad

461
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: for these hapless SAPs, but terrible you know. At the

462
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,239
Speaker 1: same time, Again, though things were not so hot in

463
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: the in the world at large, and certainly the kind

464
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: of people that maybe would look at this as an

465
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: opportunity to start again. Uh. You know, Scotland is pretty bleak,

466
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: the weather is not great. Um it felt like maybe

467
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: too some this was a way to break out of

468
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: their kind of typical humdrum routine and start a new

469
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: life for what seemed like a too good to pass

470
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: up deal. Which is another part of manipulative techniques of grifters,

471
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: is the idea if there's two notions, One is you're

472
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: spurring somebody towards making a decision that you want them

473
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: to make, and also making sure that the decision seems

474
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: like something that they would be too. It would be

475
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: a fool to to reject this offer because it's just

476
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: like a no brainer, right Yeah, And it's also very helpful.

477
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: You know you've done well when they feel as though

478
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: it is their own idea. Hey, Kazeke, you and I

479
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 1: are friends, right, you know what, Poya sounds so good

480
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: that I would like to go. Uh. Napoleon has just

481
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: been defeated, the British economy is expanding, and you know,

482
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: I'm in a good mood. I think it's a it's

483
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: a time to make a change right. And this works

484
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: very well for the Kazique at first. But for these

485
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: poor investors, the poia they were promised is not the

486
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: poia they find when they land. Now, is that firefest situation? Exactly?

487
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: They see no farmland. They see mile after mile of dense,

488
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: nigh impenetrable jungle, and they are wondering, you know, where,

489
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 1: where is all the crystal clear water, Where is all

490
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: the abundant, rich soil we were promised? Where the heck

491
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: is the civilization you told us about. Here's a fantastic

492
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: excerpt from an account of the time that was reprinted

493
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: in The Guardian recently. Yeah, this from the Guardian archive

494
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: was in print the October eight three, by the time

495
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: that a couple of settlers had made it back. So

496
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: here's here it goes. When the immigrants arrived at San Joseph,

497
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: nothing could exceed their anguish on finding where they expected

498
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: a fine, flourishing town with nearly two thousand inhabitants, only

499
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: two or three ruined huts. The party exerted themselves vigorously

500
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: clearing away some stunted mahogany trees from about six yards

501
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: of sandy ground and erecting a number of little huts

502
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: and tents with blankets to protect them from the weather.

503
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: Nearly all of their provisions, however, had been wet and landing,

504
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: as they had been compelled to roll all their barrels

505
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: for a considerable distance through salt water. The sun in

506
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: the daytime was intolerably hot, and the nights were cold

507
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: with heavy rain. Uh So what ended up happening was

508
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: a lot of people died. They got very sick, and

509
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: because the water was not that pure clean drinking you

510
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: know water that was described, it was brackish and contaminated

511
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: with animal waste as well. So in a very short

512
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: amount of time, I think twenty people died and everyone

513
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: who didn't die got sick. And along comes the real

514
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: because Eque, the of the Mosquito Indians, he visits them

515
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: to see what's going on. He are you guys right,

516
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: And we have an excerpt that explains this situation pretty well.

517
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: Try to imagine the king's utter bafflement here. He afterwards

518
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: sent a letter stating that he had made a grant

519
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: of thirty miles of land on the Poyas Shore to

520
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: Sir Gregor McGregor three years ago, but that quote unquote

521
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: Sir Gregor, having until that time neglected to take possession.

522
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: He considered the grant as void, and that had he

523
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: then known Sir Gregor as he did now, he would

524
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: never have made the grant. He would oppose the settlement

525
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: of anyone belonging to Sir Gregor within his territory, and

526
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: prescribed as the condition of their remaining in peace, that

527
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: they should abjure Sir Gregor and swear allegiance to him. So,

528
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: in other words, he became aware of what a bastard

529
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: Gregor was. Yeah, utter mustard. And so at this stage

530
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: he also threatens some of these settlers. He says, and

531
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: we'll paraphrase here, that he could call up seven thousand

532
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: natives and cut off the entire settler community at one blow.

533
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: But by this point, and by their own admission, the

534
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: settlers felt themselves past fear. Death was killing everybody off,

535
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: just as surely as the Mosquito king was threatening to do.

536
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 1: Bad times. Man, there's a really sad little account of

537
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: a man who was a shoemaker who was declared to

538
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: be the official shoemaker of the Princess of Poia, whoever

539
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: that was, and he apparently got so sick that he

540
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 1: took his own life by shooting himself while laying dying

541
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: in a hammock. Yep and six men tried to get

542
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: to Honduras in a canoe. They ended up being castaways,

543
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: but they were rescued by a guy named Mr Bennett,

544
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: who was a Mahogany merchant and an overall stand up dude.

545
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: He learned of what was happening. Thank God for Mr Bennett. Yeah,

546
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 1: and he sent a ship to take as many settlers

547
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: as he could to a hospital in Honduras and to

548
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: fetch the rest of them on the second trip. However,

549
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: at this point, the situation is still fraught with danger

550
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: because we mentioned how Durast Package. Right, that's the first

551
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: ship with about fifty people. We mentioned Kennersley Castle. That's

552
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: the second ship with about two people. There were two

553
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: other ships on the way. There was the Albion, which

554
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: was the third vessel to bring settlers. It was diverted

555
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: to Belize after they discovered that the previous settlers had abandoned.

556
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: This is so firefest dude, This is like, I mean,

557
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 1: this is literally what happened with firefests. People got trapped

558
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: on the island and they couldn't fly out a much

559
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: bougier version of this. But I wonder if if Jah

560
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: Rule or whoever the hell was responsible for that looked

561
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: at this story as like an inspiration. Yeah, And the

562
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: the other ship the scheme was sent bringing arms and

563
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: supplies also diverted to Belize, and there are also reports

564
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: that five other vessels were on the way. But in

565
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 1: a massive stroke of luck for these vessels, word reached

566
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: Britain that Poia was entirely made up by that time.

567
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: So the British Royal Navy intercepted these other five ships

568
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: and turned them back. And again this all happened because

569
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: there was such a scarcity of information, and it took

570
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: forever two contact people, especially over those long distances. All

571
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: in all, McGregor's swindle here raised two hundred thousand pounds,

572
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: but nol what happened when people found out about this,

573
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: They were they were justifiably enraged, um and they were

574
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: thirsty for McGregor's blood. But by this point he had

575
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: already high tailed it out of the country and posted

576
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: up in France, or I think he ran a few

577
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: years more of other scams on the hapless Parisians, and

578
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: by the way, if we're gonna inflation calculator, that amount

579
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: of money that he raised, it would be in the

580
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: billions of dollars. Oh yeah, if we count France. There's

581
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: a great article from the economists called The King of

582
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: Khanmen that that does the math for us here. Over

583
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: his lifetime, those bond market frauds in the in England

584
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: and in France run to the tune of one point

585
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: three million And in today's terms, how much is that

586
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: that would be three point six billion pounds That it's

587
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: crazy and yeah, and so a big part of this

588
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: I once he got to Paris too, I mean, I

589
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: don't know, it must have been part of it for

590
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: for from the start. But this idea of these gold mines, um,

591
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, selling these parcels of land with the promise

592
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: of these imaginary gold mines, um that people would just

593
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: be able to dislike, stick their hands in the water

594
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: and just get get gold, right, lousy with gold. But

595
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, um in this history to the article,

596
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: they conjecture that maybe Paris was a little too too

597
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: hot for McGregor and his crew. They came back to

598
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: London and thank god is a little come up. It's

599
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: here they were arrested on site and uh imprisoned in

600
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: a prison called the Top hill Fields. Yeah. We should

601
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: note though that when he was in France he was

602
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: doing the exact same scheme. He didn't even change the

603
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: name of the country. I think that's part of why

604
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: he was so quickly caught, you know. And I think

605
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: I mean I spoke too soon, Ben that come up

606
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: and was maybe just the humilia sation of being arrested.

607
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: But as slippery as snake as this dude was, he

608
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: was able to wriggle his way even out of this one. Yes,

609
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: that is true. He was in Hillfield's bridewell for about

610
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: a week before he was released without a charge. And

611
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: then immediately he starts a newer version of the Poia scheme,

612
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: and this time he calls himself Kauzek of the Republic

613
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: of Poias. He sets up a new office and doesn't

614
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,479
Speaker 1: claim any of the diplomatic status that he had done

615
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: with the other office, and he starts acting through proxies.

616
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: He gets another company to act as brokers. Yes, so

617
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: he basically smartened up his grift a little bit, right

618
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: and and separated himself from it someone right, and he

619
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: started selling other versions of this. By the time eighty eight,

620
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: he was selling certificates entire billing holders to land employ

621
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: as proper at five shillings per acre. Yeah. Uh. He

622
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 1: goes on publishing these various documents papers power at this time,

623
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: so he he published, it's printed, it must be true, right,

624
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: Why would you go to the trouble? H He publishes

625
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: a constitution for a smaller republic headed by himself as president.

626
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: He eventually, despite all his efforts, has a bit of

627
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: a come to Jesus moment, as they would call it

628
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: in the American South, and he understands that the Poia

629
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 1: grift is finally done. Everybody knows every course is yeah,

630
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: because he's he's burned through all his money at this point,

631
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: he's got no friends left to speak of, and so

632
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: he goes back to the last place where he felt beloved,

633
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: which was old Venezuela, where he still had some connects.

634
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: He didn't screw anybody over there, exactly right, but I

635
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: can think of. So he went back and actually petitioned

636
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: the government to give him citizenship and restore his military rank.

637
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: So he ended his life living in Venezuela um as

638
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 1: a general and got a government pension, yeah, back pay

639
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: as well, and pension. And that's primarily because the Defense

640
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: Minister had served alongside McGregor in an expedition in eighteen

641
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: sixteen and said, you know what, this guy is a

642
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: war hero and this worked. The part of today's Honduras

643
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 1: that was called Poia remains undeveloped today. There are no villages,

644
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: abundant farmland, no gold mines that anyone knows about. But

645
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: McGregor himself, Old Gregor McGregor passed away a freeman in

646
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: December four eighteen. One of the greatest grifters ever lived

647
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: at just an utter sleeps back. He got admire the

648
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: stones on this guy, though, man, I mean, good lord,

649
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: just to keep it rolling like this for so long. Yeah,

650
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: but hopefully a lesson to be learned. And we hope

651
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: that you enjoyed this episode as well. Thanks so much

652
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: forgiving us listen enjoyed. That's it's it's it's nothing, it's

653
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,919
Speaker 1: nothing one of these where yes, it's ridiculous, but god,

654
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: this guy put some people through the wringer, but I

655
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: enjoyed learning about it. Yeah, we'll tell us what you think.

656
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: And you know, really annoying. It's t gentleman Jonathan Strickland,

657
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: the Quister, speaking of time. It's been a nice little

658
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 1: stretch of time since we've had since you've darkened our

659
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: studio door operative word being a nice stretch. You know,

660
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,879
Speaker 1: I heard so many complaints about my absence that I

661
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: could not allow it to continue one breath longer. And

662
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: so the most cringe worthy segmented all of podcasting has returned.

663
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: I'm certainly cringing. You're also on a T shirt I

664
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: has just gone too far. Some nights it's a top seller.

665
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: So this is, uh, this is our non consensually recurring

666
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: segment wherein you the Quister also known as Jonathan Strickland,

667
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: just kind of materializes want right when we think we're

668
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: going to end the show to test our knowledge of

669
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 1: historical fact and fiction? How does this work? I present

670
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: you a scenario and I give you three minutes to

671
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: determine whether said scenario in fact represents fact or I

672
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 1: made it up. Seats and I could have made up

673
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: a significant fact within the story and the rest of

674
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: it be mostly true. And it's still for exies. Right,

675
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: So you asked me this every time, so I thought

676
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: I would just get in front of it. This time,

677
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: because it's like you forget how this game works every

678
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: time I come in here. So it's not for our benefit, man,

679
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 1: it's for the new listeners. You just hear this weirdo

680
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: popping up out of nowhere, and they want to know

681
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: what gets I'm just just making sure because every time

682
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: Ben says it, it's like he legitimately doesn't remember. Yeah,

683
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: I've got I'm a little concern. I've got a pretty

684
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: good acting range, or some emergent issues and like the

685
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: Memento guy. So if it's either all true or or

686
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: it's fake. So I give you the scenario, and then

687
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: I come up with some sort of arbitrary rule for

688
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: you to follow if you want to ask me a question,

689
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: which I now realize I did not think about before

690
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: I came in here today. So we're going to say,

691
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: if you wish to ask a question once the time

692
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: has started, you will preface that question with alan Zil.

693
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,479
Speaker 1: You'll understand why. In a moment. I will now read

694
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: to you the scenario, and then at the conclusion we

695
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: will start the clock. All right, here we are on

696
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 1: August twenty one, nineteen eleven, one of the greatest art

697
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: heists in history. Took place. A man who styled himself

698
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: the Marquis at Wardo di Valfierno calmly walked into the

699
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: louver in Paris, France. He waited until no one was

700
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,479
Speaker 1: paying attention. He lifted Leonardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa off

701
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: the wall, slid it under his coat, and calmly walked

702
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: out of the building. He had already sold the Mona

703
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: Lisa to an interested buyer. Actually, he had sold it

704
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: to six different interested buyers, because he had no intention

705
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: of parting with the real painting, you see, but rather

706
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: had six forgeries made. It was the perfect crime. The

707
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: people perch sing the stolen painting would surely not say

708
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: anything about it, and they'd have no way of knowing

709
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 1: about each other. An accomplice named Vincenzo Peruggia was caught

710
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: supposedly with one of the forgeries. According to this Marquis,

711
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: Peruggia would be tried for the theft and sentenced to

712
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: serve out to jail sentence. The copy the forgery, according

713
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: to Valfierno, would go to the louver where it hangs still.

714
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: Valfierno told his story to journalist Carl Decker of the

715
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 1: Saturday Evening Post years later, the whereabouts of the original

716
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa, according to Valfierno, are still unknown begin the time. Okay,

717
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: first off, there's a lot of according to going on

718
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: in here, so that guy could be lying, but the

719
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: story about the lie could be true. Yeah, it's a

720
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: good point. Then, I don't know. You think it's just

721
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: to throw us off. I don't know. In the past,

722
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: the longer ones have been false. But I messed up

723
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: on that point because I mentioned it in front of

724
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, aka the Quister, and he made a face.

725
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: Yeah he made I'll remember that face. Yeah, yeah, that's

726
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: miss r Bullin. Does uh? Does anybody else corroborate this

727
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: story told to the journalist or is it just the

728
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: one guy? Oh? No, there have been several corroborations. Okay,

729
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 1: several credible corroborations. Are you asking me to levy judgment

730
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: upon those who corroborate the story? That does seem like

731
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: a stretch pad to answer to answer your to answer

732
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: your question. The The one account of this full account

733
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: of this is in a nineteen thirty six Saturday Evening

734
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: Post article. I seem to recall the Pugio, I apologize

735
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 1: a name as being an art like a high art thief,

736
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: or to something like there was a movie or something

737
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: about it. But I'm wondering if there was some detail

738
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: that was incorrect that renders the whole thing. What is

739
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: the name of the the thief? Again, it would be

740
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: Marquis Eduardo de Valfier No Peruggio, Peruggio was an accomplice Peruggio. Okay,

741
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: that's the name that that that that rings about. You

742
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: want to you want to go for true? All right,

743
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: let's lock it in three to one true. Oh, I

744
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: feel so guilty. This one's a tricky one. But no,

745
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 1: it's false. It's actually false. You see, you're you're on

746
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 1: You're onto something, monsieur bolo. You see this story was

747
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: in fact told in the Saturday Evening Post in two.

748
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: But Cocker was an notorious fibber oh man, notorious, and

749
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: there is absolutely no proof that this ever exists. None

750
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: of these supposed six forgeries I've ever surfaced. The examination

751
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: of the Mona Lisa at the Louver has shown that

752
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: it is in fact the original Mona Lisa in nineteen eleven.

753
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: The Mona Lisa was not even a famous painting outside

754
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: of France. No one knew about it. Yeah, but Peruggia

755
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: did steal the Marugia did steal the Mona Lisa in

756
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: nineteen eleven with two Italian accomplices. They spent the night

757
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: in a janitorial broom closet, woke up in the next morning,

758
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: and then well didn't even wake up. They stayed awake

759
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: the whole time, snuck out the next morning with the

760
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa. Perugia kept it, was afraid to try it,

761
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: even fitness it for almost two years. Finally get tried

762
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: to do it in Florence, and the art dealer in Florence,

763
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: said hang On, alerted the authorities. Perugia was in fact

764
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: arrested and tried for the crime and sent it to jail.

765
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 1: You know how long the sentence was for stealing the

766
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa, one of the most famous paintings in all

767
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: the world. More than a year, eight months, eight months

768
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: months was all. The Mona Lisa was not very famous

769
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,919
Speaker 1: in nineteen And also there was another event that ended

770
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: up superseding, eclipsing you might say this story, and that

771
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 1: little event was the Great War broke out in Europe,

772
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: and that no one really cared about an art thief

773
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 1: at that point. But yes, this so the story was published.

774
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: Carl Decker did write an article that made these claims,

775
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: saying that he had met this Marquis Eduardo Valfierno back

776
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen, but there's no proof that such a

777
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: man ever existed, no proof that any forgeries were ever made,

778
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: and in fact, there are many parts of his story

779
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 1: decker story, that resemble an earlier story that was published

780
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: in nineteen ten about another self styled nobleman, Count Dolby,

781
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: who was to sell forgeries to American millionaires. You know

782
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 1: what though, Okay, first off, thank you. That is an

783
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: excellent explanation. But I am going to argue that this

784
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 1: is a draw due to the complicated and uh unexplored

785
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: territory that this question represents. It's funny because I'm the

786
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:23,879
Speaker 1: one who's in charge of the game I say I want.

787
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: Besides what you said the last time that it was

788
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: an easy one, So now on they're going to be

789
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: really hard. You knows me. Sorry, guys, you know what

790
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,959
Speaker 1: I've kind of You've worn me down to the point

791
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 1: where I just can't even get upset about this anymore. Um,

792
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: and I'm fine with just I'm a gluten for punishment.

793
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: Let's keep let's keep this rolling again. We'll make it fair.

794
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: Next time I make one up, I will make one up.

795
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 1: I will not take some other famous fraud and then

796
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: presented as if it were true. Because you may remember,

797
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:02,879
Speaker 1: Oh I hear, remember hearing that story, right, realtor, I'll

798
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: be more honest in my dishonesty. Great. Well, you're clever

799
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,439
Speaker 1: antagonist for sure, and this would usually be a great

800
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: casey on the case moment. But he will have to

801
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: accuse himself because he is actually friends with all of

802
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: us and may have a difficult time being impartial. However,

803
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 1: we do want to thank you for coming on the

804
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: show and helping us in our fellow ridiculous historians learn

805
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: a little bit more about art heist. And I hope

806
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: the share length of this one made up for the

807
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: last two shorties that we put out there, we go,

808
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: that's a good way to look at it. You're nailing

809
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: these in quantity, I make up for in quantity. So

810
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: we want to thank everybody. Of course, thank you. Jonathan Strickland,

811
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: a k a. The Quister. Thanks to Christopher hasci otis

812
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: our research associate for today's episode. Thanks to super producer

813
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme Jonathan, I

814
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 1: can take him or leave. And thanks to you, Ben,

815
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: thanks to you big, thanks to you, thank you man whatever,

816
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: and thanks to you folks listening public for for listening. Yeah.

817
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: Find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, you can join our

818
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: community page, which we're big fans of Ridiculous Historians. Jonathan

819
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: drops by there as well on occasion. If you want

820
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: to learn more about Jonathan when he is not in

821
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: his alter ego, you can find him on tech Stuff

822
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 1: and several other shows. Isn't that correct? Tech Stuff is

823
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: primary show, and I've got other ones coming up soon.

824
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: And well you're trying to drink me, we're still nemeses. Yeah,

825
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: thank you for the shout out. Oh yeah, of course.

826
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: Uh and and that's it, mold. Do you want to

827
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: go out and grift some people, like in a harmless

828
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: fun way, like steal candies from some babies or something? Yeah?

829
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: Did some Dennis the Menace type drifting victimless crimes? Yes,

830
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: sure