Speaker 1: This show contains mature content and adult themes.
Speaker 2: It may not be suitable for young audiences.
Speaker 1: From Variety and iHeart Podcasts, this is season two of
Speaker 1: Variety Confidential.
Speaker 3: He Was.
Speaker 4: Supporters St. Paulish one three.
Speaker 3: Library Bokay.
Speaker 1: This season on Variety Confidential, we peel back the layers
Speaker 1: of actor River Phoenix's meteoric rise to fame, from his
Speaker 1: unconventional childhood to becoming the alternative poster boy of a generation.
Speaker 1: We'll explore his powerful performances in classics like stand By
Speaker 1: Me and My Own Private Idaho, You're.
Speaker 3: Never going to get out of this town now, my boy.
Speaker 1: Examining how his raw talent and undeniable charisma left an
Speaker 1: indelible mark on the film industry.
Speaker 5: You guys were ussia dead body. A find a normal
Speaker 5: family and a good upbringing, and I would have been
Speaker 5: so well adjusted person.
Speaker 1: Depends on what you call normal. I'm Tachiana Siegel, Executive
Speaker 1: editor of Film and Media at Variety, and I'm here
Speaker 1: to take you through the extraordinary life of one of
Speaker 1: Hollywood's most celebrated stars, River Phoenix. His is a name
Speaker 1: that still resonates with cinophiles and casual moviegoers alike. Nearly
Speaker 1: three decades after his untimely passing. But River's story isn't
Speaker 1: just about the bright lights of Hollywood. It's a tale
Speaker 1: of youthful ambition, artistic integrity, and the dark side of fame.
Speaker 1: Exclusive interviews with Rivers co stars and friends, including Corey
Speaker 1: Feldman and Samantha Mathis, will shed light on who River
Speaker 1: really was off camera. Whether you're a longtime fan or
Speaker 1: just discovering his war, join us as we speak with
Speaker 1: industry insiders and Varieties experts to explore the brilliance and
Speaker 1: complexity of River Phoenix. Let's dive into the life, legacy,
Speaker 1: and lasting impact of an actor who burned bright and
Speaker 1: left us far too soon. This is Variety Confidential, the
Speaker 1: life and legend of River Phoenix.
Speaker 5: In fact, I would rather quit while I was ahead. Yeah,
Speaker 5: there's no need overstanding. You're welcome.
Speaker 1: River Phoenix was born on August twenty third, nineteen seventy,
Speaker 1: into a family that embraced an unconventional lifestyle. His parents,
Speaker 1: Arlen and John Bottom, were deeply ameshed in counterculture of
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties and lived mostly on the road with
Speaker 1: their five children, River the eldest, followed by Rain, Joaquin
Speaker 1: Liberty and Summer. When he was a young boy, River's
Speaker 1: parents became missionaries for the religious cult Children of God,
Speaker 1: also known as the Family. John and Arland's work took
Speaker 1: them to South America, but they eventually became disillusioned with
Speaker 1: the group and relocated the family to Florida. There, they
Speaker 1: adopted a new surname, Phoenix, a symbol of rebirth. By
Speaker 1: all accounts, it was a nurturing, if unusual environment. River
Speaker 1: and his siblings never had a formal education, but their parents'
Speaker 1: bohemian lifestyle allowed the children to explore any creativity or
Speaker 1: self expression to its fullest extent. They showed an aptitude
Speaker 1: for acting in music, and at times busk to help
Speaker 1: bring in money for the family.
Speaker 5: Well, in my family, throughout the years, we've been moving frequently,
Speaker 5: whether it be for financial reasons or for different movies
Speaker 5: that we were working on. So I've been very used
Speaker 5: to that spontaneous, must pick it up and move on
Speaker 5: kind of thing.
Speaker 1: River's brother, actor Joaquin Phoenix, recently detailed their upbringing and
Speaker 1: sibling dynamic on comedian Theo Vaughn's podcast this past weekend
Speaker 1: with Theo Vaughn, Why was.
Speaker 6: The second son uh? And uh, and my brother was
Speaker 6: like quite a force and was definitely like I don't know,
Speaker 6: almost like mythical or Shakespearean or you know, maybe it's
Speaker 6: because he he died or something, but he's like, you know,
Speaker 6: he was like the first son and he was and
Speaker 6: he was he was incredible, and he was such a
Speaker 6: force within our family. It was kind of like the
Speaker 6: the the the guiding light in some ways. He's one
Speaker 6: of the acted first and we used to sing on
Speaker 6: the streets and he played guitar and kind of like
Speaker 6: over singer. He was the lead singer and he was
Speaker 6: the guitarist and kind of oversaw everybody. And he was
Speaker 6: such a like a strong but gentle force within the family.
Speaker 1: This upbringing not only shaped rivers worldview, but also ignited
Speaker 1: his artistic passions early on, laying the groundwork for his
Speaker 1: future career in Hollywood. His breakthrough came in nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: five with the TV movie Surviving a Family and Crisis,
Speaker 1: which showcased his talent to a broader audience, but it
Speaker 1: was nineteen eighty six's Stand By Me that catapulted him
Speaker 1: into the spotlight, establishing him as a household name in
Speaker 1: Variety's Oral history of the movie. Director Rob Reiner says
Speaker 1: it was Phoenix's star power that helped the movie find distribution.
Speaker 1: As he tells it, nearly every studio in Hollywood had
Speaker 1: passed on the Coming of Age film when they convinced
Speaker 1: New Columbia Pictures production head Guy McElwain to screen it.
Speaker 1: But the most crucial members of the audience were mcelwain's
Speaker 1: two daughters. About halfway through, they were in love with
Speaker 1: River Phoenix. Bruce A. Evans, who produced and co wrote
Speaker 1: the film, remembers in the film, fourteen year old River
Speaker 1: is a standout as spiritual leader Chris Chambers, alongside co
Speaker 1: stars Corey Feldman as hot tempered Teddy Duchamp, Will Wheaton
Speaker 1: as sensitive Gordie la Chance, and Jerry O'Connell as wisecracking
Speaker 1: Verne Tessio. It's been decades since, but Corey Feldman says
Speaker 1: he still cherishes those memories on the stand by Me
Speaker 1: set with River, whom he called one of the great
Speaker 1: iconic actors of our time.
Speaker 2: I would say River was like the James Dean of
Speaker 2: our generation. You know, he had all that prospect, he
Speaker 2: had all that potential. Everybody knew that he was going
Speaker 2: to be an Academy Award winner.
Speaker 4: Everybody knew that he was going to be.
Speaker 2: Hailed as one of the great iconic actors of our time,
Speaker 2: and we knew it at that time.
Speaker 4: We knew it.
Speaker 2: I just assumed he would always be part of my life,
Speaker 2: and I always assumed we'd have many more times to
Speaker 2: work together. I figured we'd end up doing music together.
Speaker 2: I figured we do more films together. To me, it
Speaker 2: was a very open ended relationship that had only started
Speaker 2: to bud. And that was that was the hardest gut
Speaker 2: punch of the whole thing, was knowing that my friend
Speaker 2: was gone and that wasn't going to happen again, and
Speaker 2: there was no opportunity for us to ever create together
Speaker 2: and to stand together. I mean to think about what
Speaker 2: I've stood for in my life and the things that
Speaker 2: he wanted to stand for or was standing for at
Speaker 2: the time of his loss, and to think what magic
Speaker 2: we could have stirred up together, the powerful statements, the
Speaker 2: powerful moments, the things that we could have raised awareness
Speaker 2: on if we joined forces and work together as adults,
Speaker 2: you know, And that's the tragedy to me is just
Speaker 2: you know, like, wow, We'll never have that chance to
Speaker 2: see what might have become of it.
Speaker 1: Corey, take us back to when you were cast and
Speaker 1: stand By Me. What do you remember from that time.
Speaker 1: I'm filming in the summer of nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2: Well, what I remember about being cast in stand By
Speaker 2: Me was going into the audition while I was working
Speaker 2: on the ADR for Goonies. Actually we were on the
Speaker 2: sound stages. We did about I think it was like
Speaker 2: sixty days worth of ADR on Goonies.
Speaker 4: It was a lot.
Speaker 2: We were there for like two months. We had our
Speaker 2: school trailers out in the parking line, all that stuff.
Speaker 2: So I got an audition to read for a Rob
Speaker 2: Ryanan movie called The Body, and that's what it was
Speaker 2: called when I went into audition for it, and I
Speaker 2: remember it was a pretty big call. There was a
Speaker 2: lot of kids in the room, and I remember Rob
Speaker 2: asking me to come in two or three times to
Speaker 2: try different.
Speaker 4: Things and all in the same day.
Speaker 2: But I mean like going back and forth and trying
Speaker 2: different things, working with the character a little.
Speaker 4: Bit, and that was it.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was a pretty simple process. After I
Speaker 2: think there was a callback. I think there was like
Speaker 2: two calls and that was it. And then we got
Speaker 2: the offer.
Speaker 1: So when you guys would see each other at casting
Speaker 1: or whatever, were you often going up for the same roles.
Speaker 2: But it was movies like Explorers where you know, I
Speaker 2: was promised a role. I originally was reading for River's role.
Speaker 2: River got the role. Then I ended up reading for
Speaker 2: the part that Jason Present ended up playing, which I
Speaker 2: believe I got and was going to me, and then
Speaker 2: I got Goonies and had to turn it down. So
Speaker 2: there was a lot of that kind of stuff, you know,
Speaker 2: And that was it was that way always with me
Speaker 2: and River, and it was also that way with me
Speaker 2: and Corey Haim. So a lot of people don't realize that,
Speaker 2: and I was one of those people, by the way
Speaker 2: that didn't realize it. But Corey would tell me, I
Speaker 2: actually met you before Laws Boys, and I was like, how,
Speaker 2: And he said, on the audition for Goonies, when I
Speaker 2: went into amblin, you were actually sitting in the waiting room.
Speaker 2: And when I saw that you were going in for
Speaker 2: the same character as me, I knew that I was
Speaker 2: in trouble because I knew that you already had a
Speaker 2: relationship with Steven and blah blah blah. So that was
Speaker 2: kind of one of those interesting things. So Corey was
Speaker 2: one of them. But you know, I didn't see him
Speaker 2: as much as he was from Canada, but River and
Speaker 2: I saw each other on everything. And again Explorers, you know,
Speaker 2: was another movie that he ended up getting.
Speaker 4: I ended up getting it too. We could have ended
Speaker 4: up in that together.
Speaker 2: But then because I got the opera, like I think,
Speaker 2: the same week as Goonies, I couldn't do it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 1: Okay, what was the vibe like on set?
Speaker 4: Oh, it's amazing.
Speaker 2: I mean it was. First of all, the thing that
Speaker 2: was great about that film was the fact that you had,
Speaker 2: you know, four serious actors, even though we were kids,
Speaker 2: we all took our craft seriously, and you had a
Speaker 2: very serious.
Speaker 4: Director who had something to prove. You know. This was
Speaker 4: not the Rob Reiner that we think of no of today.
Speaker 2: This was the guy who really had a chip on
Speaker 2: his shoulder because people kept calling him Meatball and he
Speaker 2: did not want to be remembered or referred to as
Speaker 2: the meatball.
Speaker 4: It was like, yeah, that was cute.
Speaker 2: That was a sitcom I did back in the seventies
Speaker 2: and you know, early eighties.
Speaker 4: But I'm done with that now. And now I'm a
Speaker 4: director and I want.
Speaker 2: To be taken and seeing, and so because of that,
Speaker 2: I think that's what kind of got me excited about
Speaker 2: the prospect when I read the stuff that I read
Speaker 2: from the body and said, Okay, this, this will be serious.
Speaker 2: This is not like you know, the other stuff that
Speaker 2: I've done before, where it's action adventure or comedy or horror.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is like really serious stuff. So we
Speaker 2: all got to put our serious faces on and go
Speaker 2: for it. And so when we got up there, the
Speaker 2: beautiful experience was that rob knowing that we were a
Speaker 2: bunch of kids who did have the intention to be serious,
Speaker 2: but at the same time probably came from a myriad
Speaker 2: of backgrounds regarding our instincts, regarding what we were used to.
Speaker 2: If you know, some of us were trained and had class,
Speaker 2: some of us did not, like myself, who never went
Speaker 2: to class, never had a coach, And so some of
Speaker 2: the things that he wanted to do was kind of
Speaker 2: broaden our horizons by introducing us to tricks and games
Speaker 2: and things that were used in acting schools, in acting
Speaker 2: classes and stuff that I personally had never experienced because
Speaker 2: I'd never been to those things. And so we did
Speaker 2: a series of things that he called traditional you know exercises,
Speaker 2: which were exercises from you know, stell Adler or whatever,
Speaker 2: where we would do things like mirroring or volume games
Speaker 2: where we would you know, mirror each other's movements or
Speaker 2: mirror each other's volume, where we would you know, somebody
Speaker 2: would say something and then we would repeat it back
Speaker 2: to them at a louder level, and then they would
Speaker 2: repeat it back at a louder level. Things like that,
Speaker 2: just working off of each other to gain each other's sensibilities,
Speaker 2: understand each other's timing and thought process. And then we'd
Speaker 2: play other games, like you know, kind of fun imagination
Speaker 2: games or improvisation games, different things, just to get our
Speaker 2: brains working and to get us communicating in a way
Speaker 2: that felt like we've known each other for a.
Speaker 4: Lot longer than we had.
Speaker 2: And with River and I, it was really easy because
Speaker 2: River and I had known each other for many years already.
Speaker 2: We'd been seeing each other in different casting offices, you know,
Speaker 2: playing football in the parking lot, link be in the
Speaker 2: parking lot. You know, that's the kind of stuff that
Speaker 2: you did if you got along with another kid in
Speaker 2: the industry, because generally you'd walk into these casting offices
Speaker 2: and they'd be I mean, I'm sure it's still like this,
Speaker 2: but you know, there was fifty kids in there, and
Speaker 2: they're all with their stage moms, and all their stage
Speaker 2: moms have told their kids not to talk to other kids.
Speaker 2: That's like a big thing. And for whatever reason, River
Speaker 2: and I were both always those kids. Like we'd see
Speaker 2: each other, hey man, how are you good? Good, what's
Speaker 2: going on? Let's go outside and talk. Okay, when we
Speaker 2: go outside and just start hanging, you know, and have
Speaker 2: fun like kids do until it was time to get called.
Speaker 2: And I guess, you know, even though we both did
Speaker 2: have stage moms, for whatever reason, I guess they didn't
Speaker 2: mind us hanging out because they knew that we were
Speaker 2: probably the best of the best, and it was probably
Speaker 2: a good idea for us to have a connection or whatever.
Speaker 2: But the point is is that, you know, it wasn't
Speaker 2: frowned upon for us to have that relationship, so we
Speaker 2: kind of built.
Speaker 4: It, you know. And I wouldn't say we were great friends.
Speaker 4: I would just say we were acquaintances.
Speaker 2: But we always kind of had a smile and a
Speaker 2: fondness for when we saw each other and when we
Speaker 2: realized that we were casting the movie together.
Speaker 4: We were both very excited about that.
Speaker 1: Is there an early memory from production that still stands
Speaker 1: out to you.
Speaker 2: I'll never forget the plane ride over, which was one
Speaker 2: of the scariest plane rides of my life. And I'll
Speaker 2: never forget that because River and I were sitting next
Speaker 2: to each other on a small single engine prop lane
Speaker 2: and you know, it's like a puddle jumper, and we
Speaker 2: hit some really serious turbulence on the way over, and
Speaker 2: I'll never forget River and I sitting there fearing for
Speaker 2: our lives, like scared to death, but laughing at the
Speaker 2: same time because the plane was going like this. It
Speaker 2: was rocking so hard that at one point it went
Speaker 2: all the way up on its side. So we're like, whoof,
Speaker 2: like that all the way up on its side, and
Speaker 2: I remember almost going upside down and I'm like kind
Speaker 2: of He's sitting next to me and I'm looking down
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh my god, are we going to die?
Speaker 2: And we shared that experience of like a near death
Speaker 2: experience together, and that's how we started off our journey
Speaker 2: for a Stand by Me. So I've never told that story,
Speaker 2: but it's an interest one and what.
Speaker 1: Do you remember about River as an actor?
Speaker 2: You know, most young actors, you look at them and
Speaker 2: they don't respond, or if they do respond, they're just
Speaker 2: reading words off the page, but there's no connection there.
Speaker 2: That's the testament of a great actor, and especially at
Speaker 2: a young age, is somebody that's not working off the
Speaker 2: written page, but they're working off the emotion that those
Speaker 2: words make them feel. Whether it's comedy or serious or horror,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. It's still the same value, which is
Speaker 2: being real in the moment and giving that real moment
Speaker 2: to your fellow actors to get them the opportunity to
Speaker 2: share in that real moment with you.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, that was the kinship.
Speaker 2: I believe that we had that kind of put us
Speaker 2: above the other guys, not in the sense of actors,
Speaker 2: just in the sense of we had that understanding.
Speaker 4: It was a mutual understanding.
Speaker 2: And then will you know, I think it was kind
Speaker 2: of more from the other side of the training, which
Speaker 2: was very kind of stick to the words on the page.
Speaker 4: You know, do what's in front of you. You know,
Speaker 4: don't kind of do anything.
Speaker 2: Outside of the box unless you're told where River and
Speaker 2: I were much more like go on the feeling go
Speaker 2: on the feeling and then Jerry being so young, he
Speaker 2: was just kind of like, you know, this was his
Speaker 2: first project where him it was like the opposite side
Speaker 2: of the spectrum where he was just like you know,
Speaker 2: a bird being let out of the cage for the
Speaker 2: first time and just kind of like.
Speaker 4: Hey, this is great, this is fun. Let's go everywhere,
Speaker 4: you know, let's do anything. Let's yeah, this is awesome.
Speaker 4: And he was. He brought that to his character, and
Speaker 4: he brought that to the scenes, and all that innocence
Speaker 4: and that sweetness that's in his character I think was
Speaker 4: very genuine to Jerry and who he was.
Speaker 1: What was like the vibe like when cameras aren't rolling,
Speaker 1: he seems like almost like summer camp, like you guys
Speaker 1: are all the same age or were not the same
Speaker 1: age and.
Speaker 4: Had to do a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: It was amazing until River had his family upheaved him
Speaker 2: from the hotel and moved them all to a house
Speaker 2: outside of town. So when we were all staying in
Speaker 2: the same hotel, it was a blast. We were having
Speaker 2: an amazing time. It was maybe a little bit too
Speaker 2: much fun. But when his family, his Mam Marlene, decided
Speaker 2: that they wanted to rent a little, you know, family
Speaker 2: ranch home outside in the suburbs, which was about forty
Speaker 2: minutes away from city.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Obviously I would go out there and stay with them sometimes,
Speaker 2: or River would come stay in my hotel room with
Speaker 2: me sometimes. But for the most part, it created the
Speaker 2: separation between us, which was kind of depressing because we
Speaker 2: were really excited and enjoying that camaraderie and enjoying that
Speaker 2: kind of summer camp vibe, which of course you still
Speaker 2: got on the set, but it was a little bit
Speaker 2: different because you're working.
Speaker 4: So but we had some great times.
Speaker 2: I mean, that was the first nightclub I ever went
Speaker 2: to in my life, was with River, and it was
Speaker 2: an under eighteen, like an age fifteen to eighteen type nightclub.
Speaker 2: And I don't even know how. I guess it was
Speaker 2: all ages because we were not that old. We were
Speaker 2: only thirteen. I don't know how we got into that place,
Speaker 2: but they were letting us in. So we went to
Speaker 2: our first night club for kids, and it was all,
Speaker 2: you know, like I said, thirteen to eighteen year olds,
Speaker 2: you know, dancing to depeche Mode and all the goth
Speaker 2: type eighties music that was out there, and I'd come
Speaker 2: in and River and I would have little Michael Jackson
Speaker 2: dance offs. People don't realize this, but River could also
Speaker 2: dance and he liked to dance like Michael also, although
Speaker 2: it was never seen on camera, but he would do it.
Speaker 2: And we would go to this nightclub called the Met
Speaker 2: that was the name of the club. Actually just ran
Speaker 2: into somebody at the comic con that I did last
Speaker 2: weekend who was like, Oh, I remember you from Eugene, Oregon.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this, but I went
Speaker 2: to that nightclub with you. I said, what was it called.
Speaker 2: They said it was the Met. I was like, that's right,
Speaker 2: so that's what I have that information fresh on me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, So we would go to that nightclub together.
Speaker 2: You know, we famously got drunk together. I think it
Speaker 2: was my first time being drunk, I'm not sure about his.
Speaker 2: And then we also famously smoked weed together for the
Speaker 2: first time, which is really weird, but that was on
Speaker 2: set offset of the movie. We didn't do it on
Speaker 2: set obviously while we were working, but it was through
Speaker 2: people that were associated with the set, and that's how
Speaker 2: we ended up getting the weed in the first place.
Speaker 2: So basically one of the crew members brought us to
Speaker 2: his room and smoked us out, And of course that
Speaker 2: was not you know, that's typely right. We shouldn't be
Speaker 2: doing that, but they did anyway. So but you know,
Speaker 2: it was all in good fun. I mean, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say that they were trying to, you know, taint the
Speaker 2: clean perception of a young adolescent. But we came to him.
Speaker 2: It's not like he was pushing it on us. We
Speaker 2: were saying, you know, all these kids are smoking weed
Speaker 2: in town and they keep talking to us about it,
Speaker 2: and we don't want to just you know, run off
Speaker 2: with some kids. We'd rather do it with an adult
Speaker 2: who knows what they're doing. And you know, maybe we
Speaker 2: saw that you have a bong in your room. You know,
Speaker 2: we were like hanging out with this guy on the
Speaker 2: crew and we saw a bong in his room in
Speaker 2: River said, you know, look he's got I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: he's like, well, maybe we can ask him. So that's
Speaker 2: what it was about. But anyway, we did it. Rivers
Speaker 2: said he never felt it that day, by the way,
Speaker 2: so I got stoned out of my mind.
Speaker 4: He never felt anything.
Speaker 2: And then I think we tried again another time, and
Speaker 2: that time he did feel it. But and then I
Speaker 2: remember cut to like New York when we were doing
Speaker 2: the press tour and I was there with my dad.
Speaker 4: And I remember going over the River's room.
Speaker 2: And like I could smell weed coming all the way
Speaker 2: down the hallway. I was like, well, I guess he
Speaker 2: figured it out. But anyway, so.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was there, you go. That was it, at the.
Speaker 2: End of innocence in the truest form, and that moment
Speaker 2: of crossing from you know, puberty, you know, being kids,
Speaker 2: being rambunctious, trying to understand the world and everything around us,
Speaker 2: and then experimenting with these things that we, you know,
Speaker 2: probably shouldn't have been. But I think it was pretty
Speaker 2: much on par with what every other kid our age.
Speaker 4: Was doing at the time.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think we were really doing anything
Speaker 2: that crazier out of control, and certainly we never did
Speaker 2: hard drugs together or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Did he stay in touch after the film wrapped or
Speaker 1: after the press tour.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we did.
Speaker 2: We stayed friends for many years, you know, and then
Speaker 2: we kind of then we kind of stopped talking.
Speaker 4: I think probably around sixteen to eighteen.
Speaker 2: We didn't talk for a while, and then I saw
Speaker 2: him when I turned eighteen at the Academy Awards, and
Speaker 2: I remember it had been about two years and he
Speaker 2: was there with Martha Plimpton. I was there with Drew Barrymore.
Speaker 2: I was performing that year. He was nominated for Running
Speaker 2: on Empty and so I remember going and visiting him,
Speaker 2: like we would go to each other's sets, so like
Speaker 2: we'd both be working on the Warner Brothers lot. I
Speaker 2: think he was working on First No, No, No, before
Speaker 2: before Running on Empty.
Speaker 4: There was that movie that he did, Jimmy Ruden. Was
Speaker 4: it Jimmy Ruden?
Speaker 2: Yeah, might have been, But anyway, he was working on
Speaker 2: a movie on the lot on the Warner Brothers lot.
Speaker 2: I was working on I think Lost Boys, And we
Speaker 2: kind of hooked up there and out on each other's
Speaker 2: sets a little bit. And then the next time I
Speaker 2: saw him after that was the Academy Awards, and it
Speaker 2: was like, wow, look here we are. Now you're nominated.
Speaker 2: I'm performing, Like this is kind of a big deal.
Speaker 2: We've done well for ourselves.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to that night at the Shrine
Speaker 1: Auditorium in nineteen eighty nine for the Oscar Ceremony.
Speaker 7: The nominates for the best actor in the supporting role.
Speaker 3: Now like Dennis and Little Dog, Gentlemen, Kevin Klein in
Speaker 3: a Fish called wand Martin Landau in Tucker the Man
Speaker 3: and His Dreams, River Phoenix and running on empty.
Speaker 7: Dean Stockworld in Marriage with them All and the Oscar
Speaker 7: goes to Kevin Klein and a Fish called wand Corey.
Speaker 1: What happened next?
Speaker 2: And then the very next contact was when I had
Speaker 2: gotten through rehab and I was nineteen, and I had
Speaker 2: just come out of rehab, and I was working on
Speaker 2: a movie that I'm not hugely proud of, but it
Speaker 2: was called Happy Campers, which was a broad kind of comedy,
Speaker 2: camp comedy whatever.
Speaker 4: But anyway, point being that.
Speaker 2: The first a d saw how serious I was trying
Speaker 2: to help people get sober, and she brought up to
Speaker 2: me that River was going through some of his own
Speaker 2: personal demons. And I don't want to get too into
Speaker 2: the details of that, but I'll say that when I
Speaker 2: heard that he was struggling with some of the same
Speaker 2: things that I had just recovered from, I obviously wanted
Speaker 2: to help in any way I could. So I reached
Speaker 2: out to him a few times and we did speak,
Speaker 2: we did connect, and The plan was that when I
Speaker 2: got back from filming, we were going to get together.
Speaker 2: And my plan was that I was going to get
Speaker 2: him into twelve step recovery. And I was actually making
Speaker 2: a plan to do that, to do like an intervention.
Speaker 2: And then when I got back, I contacted him, never
Speaker 2: reached him. His guy, his name was Sky, who was
Speaker 2: with him actually the whole time of the filming of
Speaker 2: the Standpy. I mean, he was his guardian, his onset guardian,
Speaker 2: his name was. They called him Sky Phoenix, and Sky
Speaker 2: and I are still very close friends today.
Speaker 4: But Sky was the one that entered the phone that
Speaker 4: day and he.
Speaker 2: Said, oh, Rivers not available, he's sleeping or whatever, and
Speaker 2: he never put him on the phone with me, and
Speaker 2: we never reconnected. And because we never reconnected, I never
Speaker 2: had the chance to get him into that twelve step recovery.
Speaker 2: And it was only about maybe a couple months after
Speaker 2: that that he that he oded. So it's a terrible
Speaker 2: piece of my history, and it's very sad.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It's one of those things that you know, you ask
Speaker 2: yourself over and over, could I have done more? You know,
Speaker 2: I wish, I wish I would have thought more. I
Speaker 2: wish I would have realized how serious it was and
Speaker 2: made more of an aggressive plan to you know, make
Speaker 2: myself present, to go, you know, pound on his door,
Speaker 2: drag him out. Whatever I had to do, I should
Speaker 2: have I should have done more, and I don't know
Speaker 2: if I'll ever really completely forgive myself for that.
Speaker 7: Hmm.
Speaker 1: It sounds like my own private Idaho was the film
Speaker 1: that really pushed him over the edge.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's what he had. That's that's what the lady,
Speaker 2: her name was Chris Kringle. She had just worked with
Speaker 2: him on that film, and that's why I was getting
Speaker 2: the feedback what had happened on that set, and you
Speaker 2: know what kind of condition he was in, and that's
Speaker 2: why I was like, oh my god, I gotta do something.
Speaker 2: So I did emphatically try to reach him. Several times.
Speaker 2: We did connect, but briefly, and then by the time
Speaker 2: I got home, you know, people get distracted. I got,
Speaker 2: you know, right into a next movie. He goes into
Speaker 2: his next you know how it is. It's just, you know,
Speaker 2: you go your different paths and then by the time
Speaker 2: you circle back sometimes it's too late.
Speaker 4: And that's what happened.
Speaker 1: What do you recall was your reaction when you heard
Speaker 1: the news that he had passed away.
Speaker 2: Oh just awful, what loss. What a beautiful soul. I mean,
Speaker 2: we had so much in common. That's why I respected him.
Speaker 2: I mean not to sound self indulgent, but like, he
Speaker 2: was a vegetarian, he loved animals, he loved humans, he
Speaker 2: loved giving. He was a musician, he was, you know,
Speaker 2: an artist. He liked to dance, he liked to sing,
Speaker 2: he liked to quick. We made a music video together.
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't know this, but him and
Speaker 2: his sister Rain did some very early recordings of some
Speaker 2: family songs, kind of like Partridge Family type stuff, and
Speaker 2: they asked me to star in the video because he
Speaker 2: liked the way I danced, and you know, he knew
Speaker 2: that I was trying to get into music. He was
Speaker 2: further advanced than I was, because I didn't start writing
Speaker 2: until probably after that. I think around stand by Me
Speaker 2: is when I started first putting pen to paper and
Speaker 2: trying to write music.
Speaker 4: And it wasn't until really around Lost Boys that I.
Speaker 2: Put together my first single in my first video, which
Speaker 2: was Rotten Away, which I never released even but I
Speaker 2: was kind of working on music at that time, so
Speaker 2: He had me probably by about a year or two,
Speaker 2: and when he was already working on his music and
Speaker 2: he would play it for me.
Speaker 4: I was like, this is great, this is great. He's like,
Speaker 4: why do you start one of the videos. We want
Speaker 4: to make a video and I want you to start.
Speaker 4: I was like okay.
Speaker 2: So he directed the video and it was me taking
Speaker 2: his little sister out on a date or something like that.
Speaker 2: It was really sweet and really cute. But you know,
Speaker 2: I show up with flowers and I knock on the
Speaker 2: door and the little girl comes to the door and
Speaker 2: we go up on this date holding hands.
Speaker 4: And it was just the sweetest, was innocent little thing.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I go back to those dimes, and I
Speaker 2: go back to those memories of why we were so
Speaker 2: connected and why we were so linked together spiritually because
Speaker 2: we were like the same we were cut from the
Speaker 2: same cloth, and I just had so much love and
Speaker 2: respect and admiration for him. So when I you know,
Speaker 2: when I turned on the news that night, and it
Speaker 2: was Halloween night, so I think i'd.
Speaker 4: Been out as well, you know, and I came home and.
Speaker 2: I just saw it and it was just it. I
Speaker 2: couldn't even believe it was real. You know, it was
Speaker 2: just it was horrifying, and yeah, it's just a huge laws.
Speaker 1: To further discuss the cultural phenomenon that would stand By
Speaker 1: Me were turned to Variety is chief film critic Owen Gleiberman.
Speaker 8: I think the movie that really put him on the
Speaker 8: map for me was stand By Me. You know, he
Speaker 8: had that kind of wolf cub look about him, and
Speaker 8: he already, you know, in hindsight, had the quality that
Speaker 8: would define him as an actor, which is that under
Speaker 8: this cool facade, there was this very tender and sincere quality.
Speaker 8: It's kind of effortless gravitas that he had. And in
Speaker 8: that sense, you know, he was a prototype in a
Speaker 8: way for a new generation of stars, a new paradigm
Speaker 8: of Hollywood startup. You know, he'd started out as a
Speaker 8: teen star doing after school specials and things like that,
Speaker 8: and in a way that felt very ahead of the curve.
Speaker 8: He was sort of like Harry Styles or Robert Pattinson
Speaker 8: in that when he crossed over into an adult persona,
Speaker 8: he had to sort of fight for his credibility. But
Speaker 8: I think, you know, from stand by Me on you
Speaker 8: really saw that he just had this quality that stood out,
Speaker 8: this stillness about him that made you want to watch him,
Speaker 8: where he could just effortlessly own a scene. Just about
Speaker 8: the highest compliment you can give a young actor is
Speaker 8: to say that he's a James Dean. Now, a million
Speaker 8: young actors have been compared to James Dean, and ninety
Speaker 8: nine percent of them do not live up to that.
Speaker 8: But River Phoenix really was a James Dean. And you
Speaker 8: start with that look. I mean, he was just very
Speaker 8: handsome with that dark blonde hair, but there was a
Speaker 8: soul to him. He looked like a wolf, very wild
Speaker 8: and mysterious, and he had this quality of melancholy about
Speaker 8: him that always came through very glamorous but also vulnerable, haunted.
Speaker 8: But that gave him this intoxicating quality where he could
Speaker 8: be doing absolutely nothing and you wanted to watch me.
Speaker 8: And part of what was so James Dean like about
Speaker 8: River Phoenix is that he did seem to be nursing
Speaker 8: some buried, kind of far off ache, some kind of wound,
Speaker 8: and you wanted to get in touch with that. You
Speaker 8: wanted to know what it was. You kind of wanted
Speaker 8: to take.
Speaker 4: Care of him.
Speaker 8: I think River Phoenix stood out in that movie by
Speaker 8: seeming more like a seventies actor. I think those kids
Speaker 8: were all pretty good in the movie, but you know,
Speaker 8: they were kind of punchy and a little bit sticky
Speaker 8: son of them, and he was. He was willing to
Speaker 8: kind of be laid back and not say anything and
Speaker 8: just you know, kind of command a scene through his presence.
Speaker 8: And I think that's the quality he carried through all
Speaker 8: his roles. He often played these kind of quiet, introspective
Speaker 8: characters where he wasn't ruling a scene through dialogue, although
Speaker 8: he could do that too, and there was something it
Speaker 8: was more like just his presence. There was this quality
Speaker 8: he had that drew you to it. It was very
Speaker 8: nonverbal in a way, and I think that comes across
Speaker 8: and stand by me, that's what makes him the most
Speaker 8: magnetic of those four is that he's the one. He's
Speaker 8: the one of these boys who has kind of a
Speaker 8: quality of mystery about him.
Speaker 1: With his new phone fame, River took on ambitious roles
Speaker 1: that further highlighted his talent. Films like The Mosquito Coast
Speaker 1: and Running on Empty earned him critical acclaim and solidified
Speaker 1: his status as a rise in star Let's Listen to
Speaker 1: this nineteen eighty eight interview from Toronto's CFTO News.
Speaker 8: Phoenix has met with considerable success in his brief career,
Speaker 8: but doesn't consider himself an actor as much as a comedian.
Speaker 5: To me, an actor is like a Shakespearean actor, and
Speaker 5: I just feel like I can blend well and can
Speaker 5: take on a character and somehow make it feel somewhat
Speaker 5: organic and spontaneous.
Speaker 1: Yet with success came personal challenges. River struggled with the
Speaker 1: pressures of his newfound fame, the financial responsibility of being
Speaker 1: a breadwinner for his family, his tendency to throw his
Speaker 1: entire self into a role, and a complex personal life
Speaker 1: that included an on again, off again relationship with his
Speaker 1: Mosquito Coast and running on Empty coastar Martha Plumpton. He
Speaker 1: also began experimenting with drugs and alcohol during this time.
Speaker 1: Martha recently spoke about River and their four year romance
Speaker 1: on her friend Jesse Tyler Ferguson's Dinners on Me podcast.
Speaker 9: River was certainly more famous than I ever was. I mean,
Speaker 9: he got an Oscar nomination, obviously, but I think we
Speaker 9: were both really good at knowing that we didn't really
Speaker 9: want that attention anyway, and so we really weren't exposed
Speaker 9: really that much in that way, and neither of us
Speaker 9: was terribly comfortable with that sort of thing, And it
Speaker 9: was before we were even like understood really like what
Speaker 9: that meant, you know.
Speaker 4: I think it.
Speaker 9: Got harder as we got older and River became more famous.
Speaker 9: It got harder for him. I think, well, I know
Speaker 9: it was harder for him, and he was not as
Speaker 9: equipped I think as maybe some other people might be
Speaker 9: to handle that stuff because he was a very at heart,
Speaker 9: very innocent and and like a driven by love human being,
Speaker 9: so that the contradictions of Hollywood and show business were
Speaker 9: much more difficult for him. Yeah, and you know when
Speaker 9: we did break up eventually, we were together for about
Speaker 9: four years, and then when we did break up, we
Speaker 9: did remain friends, and we were each other's first love.
Speaker 9: That relationship never really goes away. You can't ever let
Speaker 9: something like that go. It's just too important and too
Speaker 9: like altering. I mean, it's part of it's made you
Speaker 9: who you are, you know, especially in those really formative years.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a huge part of who I am.
Speaker 9: So yeah, so, and of course we stayed friends, but
Speaker 9: I think fame was really hard on River. I think
Speaker 9: he really just didn't know what to do with all
Speaker 9: of that kind and he wanted to do good, but
Speaker 9: it was really it's just the contradictions of it were
Speaker 9: too difficult.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like he was really lucky.
Speaker 3: To have you.
Speaker 9: Well, I think he was lucky to have me and
Speaker 9: his family, his brothers and sisters. I think, you know,
Speaker 9: his personality or his affliction, his illness was incredibly difficult
Speaker 9: for him to manage on his own, and he never
Speaker 9: really got the help that I think he would have
Speaker 9: done amazingly well with If he had gotten that help,
Speaker 9: I think he would have been an incredible advocate for
Speaker 9: sobriety and for people struggling with addiction. And unfortunately it
Speaker 9: just got him before he had a chance to do that.
Speaker 9: But yeah, I mean I miss him every single day,
Speaker 9: every single day.
Speaker 1: It all came to a head on October thirty first,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, at the Viper Room in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: when Phoenix died of an overdose. He was twenty three
Speaker 1: years old. That Halloween night, his girlfriend, Samantha Mathis, was
Speaker 1: right by riverside.
Speaker 10: I think he was an iconic person for our generation,
Speaker 10: just like my parents talk about they knew where they
Speaker 10: were when John F.
Speaker 4: Kennedy was killed.
Speaker 10: Pretty Much everyone I know knows exactly where they were
Speaker 10: when River died, and what a loss of hope that
Speaker 10: was for our generation.
Speaker 1: We've only just begun to uncover the remarkable life of
Speaker 1: River Phoenix, from his unorthodox upbringing to his rapid rise
Speaker 1: as a Hollywood icon. In the next episode, we'll delve
Speaker 1: deeper into the pressures that came with fame and the
Speaker 1: artistic choices that defined his legacy, including his films Dogfight
Speaker 1: and My Own Private Idaho. Join us next time for
Speaker 1: more on Variety Confidential, the life and legend of River Phoenix.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Variety
Speaker 1: Confidential is created by Dea Lawrence and Stephen Gados. Season
Speaker 1: two is hosted by Tatiana Siegal, produced by Karen Misagucci
Speaker 1: and Sydney Kramer. Executive produced by da Lawrence and Tatiana Siegal.
Speaker 1: Written by Anna Moslin, Karen Mazagucci and Tatiana Siegal, Variety's
Speaker 1: co editor in Chief Cynthia Littleton, and Ramin Sechuda. Variety
Speaker 1: Content Studio Executive produced by Alex Hughes, Edited and mixed
Speaker 1: by Aaron Greenawald. Please refer to sources and citations on
Speaker 1: variety dot com