WEBVTT - A New Narrative: Western Bear Foundation 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.200 Interstate Batteries has been a proud supporter of the Sportsman's 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.000 Nation since day one, with over two hundred thousand locations 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:11.040 throughout the US and offering twelve thousand different types of batteries. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.400 Stop into your local Interstate Battery store today and let 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:21.599 them help you find the right batteries for your everyday life. 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.279 My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.680 Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:34.680 the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness. There, 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:39.360 we'll talk about tactics, gear conservation, but will also bring 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.400 you into some of the wildest country on the planet 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:54.959 chasing battery. On this episode, we're in Cody, Wyoming at 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.160 the office of Joe condellas the founder of the Western 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:03.880 Bear Foundation. We have a intriguing conversation about why bears 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.720 are amazing critters, the history of bears in the West. Also, 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:12.039 we talk a lot about grizzly bear conflict and mitigation 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.440 that's going on right now in the very complex issues 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.679 of the grizzly bear world in the West. And Hey, 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.520 you check out the Western Bear Foundation. These guys are 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.640 doing a lot out West, and Hey, if somebody doesn't 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:30.000 stand up and say that, as big predator managers and 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:34.280 hunters and people that utilize the wildlife related commodities of 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.920 big predators, if somebody doesn't speak up for us, then 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.880 nobody's going to in the anti hunting community is going 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:47.680 to have the first rights to the narrative of big 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:52.320 game hunting and specifically large predator hunting. People like Joe 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:57.280 Condeles in the Western Bear Foundation are putting action into 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.120 our narrative of why we're the of guys, why we 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:05.080 care about wildlife, and why that we want to continue 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:10.120 on with the ancient and honorable tradition of hunting large 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:14.519 creditors and managing the landscape for the betterment of all wildlife. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:19.320 All at the same time of us enjoying hunting and 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:24.480 loving the challenge of it and taking some satisfaction and 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.520 getting to hunt big predators. You're gonna enjoy this podcast. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:40.280 Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. We are again 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:44.200 in Cody, Wyoming. Colby and I are heading back from 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:49.440 our Montana hunt and I just met a guy for 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:51.480 the first time that I feel like I've known for 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.280 a long time because we have Yes, it is bizarre 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.560 that we've never met face to face. I feel like 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.079 you can develop relationships over phone and email that are 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:07.399 almost like you've known each other for exactly. So that's 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.560 that's what's happening today. I've got Joe Condellas with me. 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.880 We're in his office here, yeah, Cody, yeah, yeah, And 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:19.000 so let me I'll give a introduction to you just 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:20.840 a little bit, but then I'm gonna hand over to 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.480 you to give a better introduction. But Joe is uh, 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.120 Joe is the founder with Western Bear Foundation. Is that statement. 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.799 So that's part of what this podcast is gonna be. 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.720 We're gonna hear about the Western Bear Foundation. We're gonna 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.920 I want to I want Joe to go into detail 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.880 of the of the the grizzly situation. I mean, we're 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:47.680 at we are at the heartthrow place for all this 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:52.080 controversy about grizzly bears. You're sitting about well, you know, 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.320 fifty miles from the park right here. Everything that's grizzly 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.040 bear related that is basically stemmed out of this range 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.720 right here. It's just you're you're in the I mean 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.080 the hub. Yeah. So this is like the hot topic 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:09.160 of our time right now for large predator management and 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.640 there it's such a complex issue and uh, so I 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:16.240 want to hear from you because your foundation is doing 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.880 so much inside of that. Um. But before we do that, 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:27.200 tell me, So, I met you years ago when I 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.640 had started the Arkansas Blackbarrasis. That's when I contact time ago. Yeah, 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.200 like probably two thousand eleven or something. Now, when did 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:38.000 when did the Western Bear Foundation officially we got our 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.320 five oh one C three status and like, oh, well 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.080 it's in, but we got we kind of were loosely 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.280 trying to build this thing up to where we were 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:50.440 federally in like oh seven seven, so, but in in 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.200 ten and eleven, that's what I remember messaging you on 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:58.039 Facebook because I saw, Hey, this guy's starting bear association 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.880 out west and I was doing a similar kind of 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.120 thing in Arkansas at the time, and so I remember 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.919 reaching out to you, and it probably wasn't It was. 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.640 It was sometime later that we really connected more when 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:12.760 I got into Bear Hunting magazine. Um. But uh, but 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:18.520 just for information sake, members of the Western Bear Foundation 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.000 receive a copy of Bear Hunting Magazine. Yeah, and it's 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.680 been that's a huge part of our membership. Like people 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.320 want something you know they want to cause, but they 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.479 also want something to return. And I mean, we're a 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:35.000 bear hunting organization, conservation and hunting, but what a better 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:36.840 thing to offer him? Like, we can't afford to put 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:38.680 out a publication. We don't know what we're doing when 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:40.480 it comes to that. So it was just like reached 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.080 out to Clay right away and it was like, Hey, 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.560 would you guys be interested in doing this? And so 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:49.960 basically Bear Hunting Magazine is our subscription that our members get, 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.840 you know, so it's a it's a huge value for them. Yeah, 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.720 right on. Well it's been a great relationship for us 0:05:55.839 --> 0:06:00.040 and uh so to get into well, let me and 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.600 take it a further further step back. Tell me about 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.240 your I mean, you're a you're a businessman here, you're 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:12.760 you're a hunter. Yeah, what was your intrigue with bears 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.960 that hooked you into this? Yeah, it's kind of a 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.960 crazy story, but you know, I grew up hunting in 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.960 southwest Montana, grew up in Butte. Uh family of hunters. 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.880 My grandpa came over from he was in Minnesota and 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.240 moved his whole family grew up there and they moved 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.360 out to Montana and and you know, my dad grew 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.400 up hunting, and everyone grew up hunting, but no one 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.440 in our family was really bear hunters. They were strictly 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.080 at that time, my grandpa was subsistence hunting, you know, 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:42.400 they needed the meet yep, just for food on the table. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.440 And and my dad, you know kind of really I 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.440 grew up, you know, at a young age being out 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:48.360 with my dad, but we never really bear hunted much. 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.000 And uh, I just kind of went through the motions 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.360 through you know, junior high in high school, going out 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.680 deer hunting, hil hunting, and I just always thought, man, 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:59.280 it'd be really cool to get a bear one day. 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.279 Well at that time time, you know, and the early 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:06.120 nineties in southwest Montana, at least, I would say bear 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:10.440 hunting hadn't really taken on the space that it is 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.680 now it's a lot more popular. Um So, there was 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.600 very few people that did it well. And um so 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:18.760 it was just kind of an unknown thing. And we're 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.000 in high school and me and my the guy that 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:25.440 I actually co founded this organization with, uh, Joe Cambick. Uh, 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:27.720 we always wanted to kill a bear. We all we 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:29.520 wanted to figure it out, and we didn't know what 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.040 we're doing. We could drive now, so we would puts 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.120 around the hills and in the spring and the sun, 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.600 you know, early summer, because it ended June fifteenth, where 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.120 we grew up trying to find bears and didn't have 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.760 a clue, you know, just hunting bears like we we 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:43.520 would all kind of you know, park on a ridge 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:48.600 and go and um, yeah, it didn't work, Like I, 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:50.840 I can't find We couldn't find bears to save our life. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.400 And uh just didn't really know anyone to show us around. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.360 And this is a long story short, but we were 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.760 we were together and he got his first bear, and 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.200 oh nineties, I can't remember. We were just out of 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.960 high school and I was just like, oh my gosh, 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.320 this is amazing. And so it kind of became a quest. 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:08.960 He's a little bit older than me, so he got 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.560 to get first shot. So then it became a quest 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:13.160 for me to get one. And we're still pretty new 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:19.720 and I finally got one, and in that day ninety seven, 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:25.600 maybe I think maybe maybe later gosh, I have to 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.800 look um that that changed me as far as like 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.520 actually shot one then never found it. I shot two 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.160 bears before I and didn't recover him, and it was 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.960 just devastating to me, you know, like I'm not going 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:41.760 to figure this out. And then when I ended up 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.360 finally harvesting one, it was actually in the in early 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.680 two thousand, I ended up harvesting one beautiful chocolate bear 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:50.200 uh in a place where I grew up in southwest 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.320 Montana hunting deer and elk, and and it was just 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.600 a pristine high mountain meadow. Hiked in there, and that 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:57.880 thing was just out in the middle chowing down on 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.280 these white flowers, and it was just like that was 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.360 meant to be in the color that I always wanted. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.199 And from that day on, I just have been fascinated 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:09.040 by not hunting them. It's the knowledge of bears that 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.240 I feel like it has driven me to the point 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.559 where I'm at now. It's like no one, you know, 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.040 a lot of people really don't understand a lot about bears. 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.920 So I started just diving into it. And and the 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:23.000 more I started looking and trying to teach myself about bears, habits, biology, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.600 you know, just the total ecology of everything surrounding bears, 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:28.840 I kind of was like, man, there's just really not 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.440 a lot of information out there, aside from other hunters, 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.520 and a lot of bear hunters are not in this 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.040 part of the country. I don't know about where you 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.400 guys are at, but they're not very good at sharing 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:43.040 information because their bear spots are like, you know, that's gold, 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.000 you know, that's sacred. So I thought, man, we kind 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:47.640 of would be nice if there was a group out 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.400 there to help people out that was in my same shoes, 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.400 not having a clue. And then also there just wasn't 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.120 a group out there really focused on bears, and we 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.320 had talked about it for years. Joe and I joke 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:00.959 and got it, wouldn't that be cool if there was 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.040 a bear founded, you know, something for bears and bear 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.479 hunters out west. Did some research, I'm like, gosh, Michigan's 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.959 got a strong one, Wisconsin, they're strong West Virginia. And 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:11.920 we're like, we could do something like that, but man, 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.360 I'm a business student and he's a game warden, so 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:15.960 we're like, I don't know how to put something like 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.720 this together. And it just ate away at me. I 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.439 moved down here in oh five, down into Cody for 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:23.960 for work, and it was just still driving me crazy. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.720 And then when I moved here, it really it propelled 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.320 me even further because now I'm on the grizzly bear 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.720 scene in the right in the middle, and I'm just seeing, man, 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.200 there's no work done for black bears. Everyone knows if 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.080 a grizzly bear takes a crap anywhere from the West 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.600 coast to here, we know, well, we couldn't tell you. 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.360 I mean, the state of Wyoming and Idaho hardly know, 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.760 um how many bears are in their state. And I'm like, 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.800 that's not right for black bears. So let me let 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:53.320 me stop you right there. To go back to something 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.880 you said that ties into that is that people. You 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.280 made a statement that generally people don't really know that 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.719 much about bears, and that's true. And you know, the 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:08.560 the outdoor media revolution of the last let's say twenty 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:13.240 five years since outdoor television came on, people started learning 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.960 about white tails, learning about elk. I mean, the average 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.479 white tail hunter can tell you more about the biology 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:24.520 and habits of a white tailed deer then probably an 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.760 expert white tail hunter could have in the nineteen sixties, 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.160 you know what I'm saying. I mean, just an average 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.320 guy like my ten year old son probably knows more 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.840 like head knowledge about white tail deer than an expert 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.040 hunter in the in the nineties. I mean, just like information, 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.760 we have so much more information. And that's exactly what 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.959 I found and was the reason that we did what 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.640 we did was I was in Arkansas and it was 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:57.160 like nobody cared about bears, nobody knew about bears, and 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.400 they were it was and it was exactly it was. 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:01.719 It's funny to hear you tell your story because it's 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.160 just like mine. I was just like I killed the bear, 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.960 massively intrigued by it. And Joe when I the first 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.520 bear I killed was in two thousand one, and and 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:12.720 I've been a white tail hunter, and when I walked 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.760 up to that bear, I realized that I knew nothing 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.400 about it. It's crazy. I mean, you know, it is 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:23.680 magnificent animal, incredible animal, and and I realized that I 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.480 knew nothing about it, and and that that the hunt 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.160 to me felt hollow. That's the way I descried. Was 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.839 twenty one years old, and I was just like this, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.600 I mean, it wasn't like I did something wrong, but 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.640 I was like, this isn't right. I need to learn 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.360 about this animal. And that set me on a quest 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.760 to learn everything I could about black bear and They're incredibly, 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:48.240 incredibly unique animal. The biological strategies they use are crazy, 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.079 you know, just all this stuff. But anyway, so it's true, 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.280 I'm overly biased because to me, they're the most fascinating 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.160 animal on the planet. Bears in general, um there their 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.719 willingness to adapt to any environment meant I was very 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.160 similar when I shot that bear. It it had taken 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:08.000 me multiple years to finally put my hands on my bear, 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.200 and I think it was like that whole struggle and 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.160 not knowing and like slowly learning that was really just like, 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.880 I mean, I've shot my first elk. It wasn't like 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.760 that big of a struggle or deer. It's just like, wow, 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.000 this is a big deal. It is monumental for me, 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.559 and just like wanting to know so much more and 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.000 not having information because like there wasn't a lot of 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.000 that stuff out there, you know, social media and the 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.040 the hunting television was not like it is today to 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.560 where you can even learn. And then just like you said, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.080 no one cared about bears. I mean until not that 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.440 long ago in Wyoming. You gotta bear with your oak. 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:43.920 You got a bear tag with your oak tag, and 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.120 they're like kill you know, they didn't have any respect 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:48.760 for him. They just thought they were a predator. And 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.160 to me, that's that's tragic, you know, like we do 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.400 so much and and and it's right we do so 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.040 much for ungulates in the West, and we need to, 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.280 but there's a whole another east to the equation in 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.080 black bears that just get left out. And that made 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.360 me sick to my stomach for so many years. And 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.360 I just thought one day, and I'll never forget the time, 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.520 and I was like, screw it, I'm doing it. I 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:13.760 was just like it ate away at me for so long, 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.199 thinking I feel like I have to do this just 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.440 to be like in ten years if it doesn't work out. 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.320 I tried, you know, like and and just for me personally, 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:25.840 like give it a shot. And I was sitting and 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:27.440 standing in the shower one day and I was just like, 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.120 the hell with it, We're doing it. And I called 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.320 him and tried to come up with the name. At 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.320 that time where the Yellowstone Country Bear Hunters Association, which 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.640 didn't really give us much UH arena other than around 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.920 Yellowstone Park, But at that time we thought that was 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:42.640 the right way to go. But you know, fast forward 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.000 to now or the Western Bear Foundation doing everything we 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.200 can in the West. So it was a long, a 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.400 long slog up to that. But I think being like you, 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.440 being around him and just being fascinated, you find a 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.720 passion point in life sometimes that you're just like you 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.840 never knew you were gonna have like five five years 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.400 be for doing that hunt and shooting that bear. I 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.920 I never in a million years thought I'd be here 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.960 today talking to you about a foundation and your your 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.320 magazine and what you did with the Arkansas Black Bear 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.120 found It maymes it's beyond me. But sometimes in life 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:15.720 things like that happened and I was like, you know, 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:20.160 we got to do something, and it's been incredibly successful. 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.480 Um slow, and I'm an impatient guy, like I want 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.840 everything to be like now, and so that's been a 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.000 struggle for me. We're all volunteers, so that's a struggle 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.600 to um a lot of work on the volunteers, and 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.160 you can only grow as fast as your You know, 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.640 money is a big thing, you know when it comes 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.120 to these foundations to tell money. So you know we're 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.080 doing the best we can. But now I know that 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.520 you have dealt with and asked questions to some of 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:50.240 these bigger foundations. I mean like, uh, I mean you've 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.160 tried to model this. I mean, give me the kind 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.480 of give me the architecture of the Western Bear Foundation 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.920 and kind of even just as simple as what your 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:03.000 mission is some of the things you're doing. Yeah. Yeah, 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.000 So we tried to, you know, not knowing anything about 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.080 running a foundation or an organization and nonprofit, we we 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.600 had to look at the ones that were successful, and 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.440 the biggest one to us in the West was Racking 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:16.520 Mount Elk Foundation. You look at what they did and 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.280 similar thing. A bunch of guys got together that are 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.720 super passionate about Elk and they created something that's a 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.000 monster now and it's done so much good for for 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.560 Elk in the country. Um, so we're like, well, let's 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.120 model it similar to that. You know, we'll be membership 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.000 driven to raise funds to do projects on the ground. 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.800 Initially when we started, Joe and I said that in 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.600 order to ensure that we're doing it for the right reasons. 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.920 No one's getting paid for this. So for for us 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.040 that was really important in the beginning because as you 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.760 and not every groups like this, but when money starts 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.680 changing hands, people start doing things sometimes for the wrong reasons, 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:55.200 and for us, it had to be about the bears 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.480 and bear hunters. So we always said, you know, no 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.520 one's gonna get paid for this. Now we're getting to 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:01.240 a point where we might have to do something like 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.280 that and change a little bit. But um, so we 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.360 tried to do it like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.520 where we had a board and and we don't really 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.520 have chapters, but we thought, you know, that would be 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.840 somewhere where we would want to go. And initially we 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.200 were just going to focus on Montana, Ida and Wyoming, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.080 Idaho and Wyoming because that's where a lot of the 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.399 grizzly bear issues were and um, the largest amount of 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.159 black bears you know, in the West, in these three states, 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.920 so we thought we'd stay there. And you know, over 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.520 the years we've as we went to Western Bear Foundation. 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.359 Now we're doing work in Our actual first chapter is 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.440 going to be formed in Washington State. Believe it or not. Yeah, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.600 we got a guy over there and some really passionate 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.480 hunters over there that want to start a chapter there 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.920 right and all the by laws right now, So we'll 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.320 have our first chapter in Washington State. And I think 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.119 it's just gonna make it a lot easier for us 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.480 to have a Montana chapter and Idaho chapter because right 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.720 now I kind of managed the three with people in 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.840 each state to help me out, like, hey, what can 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.119 we get to this? Can we do this? And and 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:02.119 you know, working closely with the state agencies that manage 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.439 our bears and manage our hunting seasons. We do a 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.479 lot of that, but a lot of that falls on 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.160 me right now. So giving these up in the chapters 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:10.800 will will take a lot off of me and make 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:12.480 it a little bit easier for me to do some 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.760 of the administrative stuff that takes up a lot of time, 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.639 you know. So that's kind of how we're set up now. UM. 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.000 We do have memberships, UM most of our money raises 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.960 through like raffles and grants. I'll write grants for for 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.760 projects on the ground, and that's what we're really probably 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.240 the most proud about right now, is the grant work 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.640 and the projects we're doing on the ground. I mean, 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.080 for being small, this year, we'll do over thirty dollars 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.119 for projects on the ground and that's all just fundraising. 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.879 What's one of what we've done in the past a 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.320 lot of is conflict mitigation, So UM, we do uh 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.080 in the state of Wyoming, We've done a lot of 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.720 bear boxes and you'll see him on the National Forest 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.320 and Wyoming and especially where we have grizzly bear use. 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.199 We have to have boxes, bear proof storage containers on 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.399 in campsites. So it keeps bears out of food. It 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:05.199 really you know, it mitigates habituation to human foods and 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.399 then it keeps bears out of trouble. And our model 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.000 has always been, you know, the more bears we keep 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:14.360 on the landscape, that's more for hunters, photographers, just anyone 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.720 to enjoy. We don't want to see bears getting taken 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.879 out management actions because they're they're habituated to food or 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:22.960 they're causing problems. You know, that's one less for us 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.800 to enjoy. What's the what's the what's the mission statement 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.879 of Western Bear Foundation to protect and develop bears and 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.639 bear hunting in the Western United States. Yeah, and in short, 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.359 you know, so we've kind of went from being super 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.800 focused on hunting rights. You know, like initially on we're like, 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:41.679 we've got to make sure we have our rights as hunters. 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.360 And we're still really focused on that, Like we're doing 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.119 a lot of work, especially in the last year with 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.200 this bear bait band. But what we've done the most 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:53.159 lately is conflict mitigation stuff on the ground to ensure 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.119 a future for bears in the West and keeping bears 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.360 out of trouble. Um So we do the bear boxes 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.520 up in Montana, we've been doing a lot of bear 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.120 fences on the Rocky Mountain Front. Those fences are electrical, 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.320 electrified fences that go around chicken coops, um lambing pins, 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.080 any of that that keeps the grizzly bears out. Um Man, 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:18.240 that's a perfect prime example of hunters truly showing their 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:20.720 the the intent of why we do what we do. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.680 It's not just to go out and kill all the bears. 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.760 We want animals on the landscape. That's been so important 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.840 to us to be a hunting group doing these projects 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.760 because right now in Montana we have a few anti 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.359 hunting groups funding a lot of these projects. And to 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.800 us that was there's a hunting group now that can 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:41.639 do that. Now, granted we don't have the money that 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.600 some of these groups. I won't name names, but um 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.840 we're slowly breaking into that where it's like, hey, we 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.120 can buy the bear proof garbage cans for the Anaconda 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.159 Township in Montana, they got a lot of bears. Like, 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:57.119 maybe we can do that now and rather than be 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.520 an anti hunting group, now we have a pro sportsman, 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.160 a pro a hook and bullet clock and these these 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:06.400 dumpsters and so much of what we're doing now, Joe, 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:10.320 inside the outdoor industry, it seems is that we're we 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:14.439 are doing a better job at showing the intent of 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.560 conservation based hunting, Like, because the narrative for the anti 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.640 hunting community is that we're just bloodthirsty guys that want 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:24.840 to go shoot stuff with our guns. And so I 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:29.480 really like, I like what you're doing because it's it's 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:34.880 on the ground, actually doing the work, showing people, showing 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.880 people that hey, we are, you know, trying to reduce 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.520 bear conflicts so that these bears don't have to be 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:43.720 euthanized when they come into this camp. You know, we're 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.879 it's exactly like but it's it's it's the it's a 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:52.399 philosophical position that I like, you know, it's yeah, I 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:54.239 think what we're trying to do too is make it 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:56.320 that you know, bear hunters and I don't have to 0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:00.280 tell you this are very much malign. Did in the 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:02.680 commune in the United States. When it comes to all 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.920 hunters in general, I think predator hunters get the worst 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.080 trapping the side from trappers and they've got a really 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:13.240 bad rap which we support trapping and everything, but it's 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.920 an effort to to try and like change the way 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:17.800 people look at bear hunters. And if they look at 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:19.879 a group like the Western Bear Foundation that's out here 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:21.560 and it's like, well, they are a hunting based group, 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:25.400 but gosh, this year, we're spending twenty dollars on callers 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:27.600 in the state of Wyoming to put on black bears 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:29.960 so we can do a population study. You know, there's 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:33.200 not been another group that's that's anti hunting or anything 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:35.480 that's even approach. The Department said, we want to do this. 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:37.560 This is a hunting group that's doing it's hunters that 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.879 are doing this, and that's that's to benefit everyone. And 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:44.080 you know, we might not agree with some anti hunters, 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:45.720 but we're gonna put more bears out there so you 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:47.800 can go take pictures or you can just walk around 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.520 and enjoy it. And and that's important to us. You know, 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.399 we gotta managed for while we were just talking with 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.480 Jim Sessions over here and uh. And he was talking 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.800 about and maybe you could add to this about how 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:02.440 many bears right now? He said, this morning, driving from 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:05.240 his house, he saw two gaming fish trucks with bear 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.359 traps and they're going to their going to somebody's house 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:11.000 that has a bear problem. They're gonna catch that bear. 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:13.320 And there's a certain point when these bears have to 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.520 be put down. And so it's like, so just in 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.520 in theory, we could say maybe that, and you may 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.159 know the exact numbers, but let's just say there's X 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:28.160 number of bears being euthanized by government officials because these 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:32.200 bears get in trouble. I mean, are are are we saying, 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.480 as sportsman, hey, why don't we have a managed hunt 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:39.760 eighteen bear quota A female quote? I mean, just something 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:44.600 so minuscule that it would have Basically, it would have 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:48.199 It would have zero net effect on the population. Truly, 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.679 it's true, but it would. But a hunted population of 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:55.879 animals acts so much differently, and you tell me they 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.160 act so much differently than an unhunted group of anyway, 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.359 what I guess what we're saying is, hey, let's sportsman, 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:07.280 take these twenty bears a year out that have to 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:10.280 be taken out. It's gonna generate funds. I mean, it's 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:14.600 all these positive things that to manage the resource and 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:18.600 and and it's been it's been a really crazy five 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:21.200 or six years with this grizzly bear deal, because we 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:24.000 went from having him d listed and I think it 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:26.520 was oh nine and they got the court ruling put 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:29.800 them back on the list. The the give it give us. 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:32.680 Just for somebody that knows nothing of this, and some 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.400 people back east that listen to this podcast don't. So 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:38.760 the grizzly bear and the lower forty eight in the 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:41.760 United States was on the endangered species list. If it's 0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:44.120 on the endangered species list, it cannot be hunt it. 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:49.680 There's there's qualifications for what an animal, biological qualifications that 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:52.680 you know, indicate whether an animals should be on that list. 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:56.000 When it when those qualifications, I mean like when a 0:24:56.040 --> 0:25:02.080 certain number or recovery quote unquote is a dablished, then 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:05.640 that animal can be taken off of the endangered species list. 0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:09.440 All endangered species are managed by the federal government, that's correct, 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:12.560 but when they're off the endangered species list, they could 0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:15.960 be managed at a state level, which is essentially what 0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:18.760 would happen is if the grizzly bear in the lower 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:21.280 forty eight were taken off the endangered species list, they 0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:25.040 could be managed by Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and these states 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:29.360 managed through hunting basically, and so then these bears could 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:31.919 be hunted. That's the that's like the super condensed version 0:25:32.119 --> 0:25:34.680 for somebody that knows nothing about this. Yeah, and it's 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.080 what we've really tried to shoot for is state management, 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:41.560 right because the people that have recovered the bear are 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:46.439 primarily state agency people. They're the biologists, and Wyoming was 0:25:46.480 --> 0:25:50.840 tasked with managing their bears under the federal government. We 0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:53.879 receive a very small amount of money, but up towards 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:55.919 to the tune of forty million that was spent on 0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:59.679 ott of Wyoming's budget to manage these things. We we 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:02.280 spent the majority of the money to bring the bears 0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:06.040 back from the brink. We've we've bought what we've got 0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:09.119 one of the best staffs as far as conflict mitigation. 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:11.800 We've got a recovery team. We've got guys out there 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:15.199 every day that are doing grizzly bear stuff, and so 0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:18.080 does Montana and so does Idaho. So we funded this 0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:22.080 recovery and now the time comes to delist them and 0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:25.000 put him into state control. And we're like, let's let 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:28.640 the people that know this bear the most manages bear 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:34.240 sustainable population. And you know, just this recent ruling by 0:26:34.320 --> 0:26:39.760 Judge Christensen to basically he said you cannot delist a 0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:44.320 distinct population, which we tried to delist while we being 0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:48.119 the the Inner Agency Grizzly Bear Committee, who was super 0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:52.240 oversees the recovery of the grizzly bear, they tried to 0:26:52.240 --> 0:26:56.680 delist just a greater Yellowstone bear, not the Bob Marshall, 0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:59.520 not the Northern Continental Divide ecosystem, and not the set 0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:02.040 of that's up in Montana. So we have we have 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:07.520 several distinct Greater yone ecosystem would include Wyoming, parts of 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:12.119 southwest Montana, and parts of southeast Idaho, correct yep. And 0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:14.480 so they tried to just delist that, and that the 0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:16.600 judge says, amongst a few other things, he said, you 0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:18.720 can't do that because we don't know what effect that's 0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:22.080 going to have on the other populations. And they said, well, 0:27:22.160 --> 0:27:24.600 they proved everything basically in their paper that said there 0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:28.080 is no issue with genetic diversity, and and there it's 0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:30.000 I mean, this is a scientific thing, and he had 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:31.920 a couple of other things saying that you're not using 0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:35.400 the most available science to count these things. And so 0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:38.520 back now we're back on the list, and the states 0:27:38.520 --> 0:27:44.359 are funding this recovery continually. Why sportsmen are paying for 0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:47.679 that through tax dollars, through licensed dollars. But yet we 0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:51.080 everyone else gets to enjoy the bear. You know, you 0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:54.439 get to take pictures of it, sell those photos. We 0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:58.359 can't kills which we've killed, We killed double what the 0:27:58.440 --> 0:28:01.359 quota was gonna be, just in Manna him in actions. See, Okay, 0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:03.840 that's that's what I want to talk about. I mean, 0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:06.560 that's the point I was making earlier, is that, so 0:28:06.600 --> 0:28:10.240 how many we're killing forty bears? Are you? It was 0:28:10.520 --> 0:28:14.640 it was an they're they're uthanizing. We're paying government people 0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.399 to go out and trap these bears, prouble bears, and 0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:19.399 I mean, I'm sure they're doing the absolute best they 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:21.840 can to not uthanize them. So I'm not saying there, 0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:26.399 but those animals could have been I mean, a it 0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:30.240 wouldn't be those specific animals, but basically hunters would go 0:28:30.280 --> 0:28:33.080 into wherever they can hunt kill bears. They would open 0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:35.680 up more space for these bears that are getting in 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:39.640 trouble because they're leaving habitat going into more fringe habitat 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:42.040 coming into the city. And so it's like, if you 0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:44.680 take out some of the bears in the core area, 0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:47.960 it's gonna make room for these bears that are now 0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:50.080 in the fringe. Is what what Jim told us is 0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:53.560 he said, he said, we're seeing grizzly bears here in 0:28:53.640 --> 0:28:56.760 habitat that they haven't been And I mean, so it's 0:28:56.800 --> 0:29:01.640 like the core population of bears is spanding quite rapidly. 0:29:02.640 --> 0:29:04.760 They and then and a great analogy that I heard 0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:07.360 him saying many many times is the bucket is full. 0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:11.120 We can only house so many grizzly bears in Yellowstone 0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:13.840 Park and the surrounding area. And now as we're looking, 0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:17.400 you know, as feed as ungulates is what they eat, 0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:20.800 moves out of Yellowstone, so do the predators. And now 0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:24.400 we have so many bears residing outside the park because 0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:28.000 there's better habitat for them. Um, now we're starting to 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:32.320 see this um bucket of full buckets, full mentality. And 0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:34.640 when the buckets full, they gotta move because you know, 0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:38.160 dominant boars aren't gonna live in the same range you know, 0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:41.000 they're gonna either kill each other. You know, a young 0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:43.959 boars got to move out. Steak has claimed somewhere new. 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:46.320 And we see that with Salsing cubs moving out, you know, 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:49.080 because boars will kill cups and so they're like, hey, 0:29:49.120 --> 0:29:51.000 we're out of here. There's a dominant boar running around. 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:52.640 We're gonna get on the I mean we get them 0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:55.160 right here, right outside of town. I mean there was 0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:56.760 a could you take us, I'm not saying that we 0:29:56.800 --> 0:29:59.560 would do this. Could you take us this afternoon? Yes, 0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:04.160 for drive up the Northfark, I would guarantee with one 0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:08.000 and it's it's it's great. I love seeing them, but 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:10.880 like we also have to manage that resource, just like 0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:13.760 we manage everything else. The federal government gets it, us 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:16.680 Fish and Wildlife Services on our side. A lot of 0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:19.240 people think they're not they wanted them to list it 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:22.440 and we are not a group. And we get a 0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:24.360 lot of flak for this because we have been pro 0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:26.360 de list for a long time. But we listen to 0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:28.680 the people that know what they're talking about. And when 0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:31.160 the Wilming gaming fish in the Montana Fish, Wildlife and 0:30:31.240 --> 0:30:34.640 Parks and Idaho departments say we're good. I mean, like, 0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:36.800 we can hunt a few of these bears. We have 0:30:36.920 --> 0:30:39.400 to listen to them because we're not scientists. They're the 0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:41.800 ones tasked with recovering it. And what we want to 0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:46.120 see as an organization, is this a sustainable population for 0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:49.000 thirty years down the road. We have grizzly bears out 0:30:49.040 --> 0:30:51.800 here in the West, a rugged wild place that people 0:30:51.800 --> 0:30:54.440 can come see grizzly bears, but we can also you know, 0:30:54.480 --> 0:30:56.240 we can have a little bit of both people who 0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:59.000 go hunt them and there's a small quota and we're 0:30:59.000 --> 0:31:02.600 shooting a few bears, but we're also managing for sustainability 0:31:03.200 --> 0:31:05.880 and what all the hunting seasons that the states put 0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:09.040 into place, because we had to have hunting seasons, we 0:31:09.080 --> 0:31:11.400 had to have it all documented, and we actually had 0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:15.080 draws and everything. Wyoming, we had draws and people drew tags. 0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:18.760 People drew tags. They never got drew tags. It basically 0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:21.440 the low they said they could have went over that quota, 0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:25.880 but they really really low and they said, you know, 0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:28.640 if we get to a level where too many bears 0:31:28.640 --> 0:31:30.840 have died throughout the year and we don't have enough 0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:33.000 in our threshold, we won't have a season. I'm like, 0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:35.479 what a better check and balance. We're good, you know, 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.000 we're not gonna over harvest this thing down to levels 0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:39.719 that it was when it got put on the endangered 0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:42.400 species list. So the states were really good about it. 0:31:42.600 --> 0:31:45.720 I thought it was a win win um. But here 0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:49.000 we are today with no So what what happened was 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:53.320 that the grizzly wear was delisted and this has actually 0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:57.600 happened multiple times. It was officially de listed, and then 0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:04.240 anti hunting groups sued the federal government. Uh. He was 0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:07.720 fishing Wildlife Service. Uh. And so then it went to 0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:11.760 a judge in Missoula, and Judge Christensen ruled in favor 0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:13.560 of them. Let me ask you something about that, and 0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:15.640 maybe you can say something. Maybe you can't. Do you 0:32:15.680 --> 0:32:20.520 feel like this guy was Was it a just decision? 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:23.880 To me? No, And I'm I'm maybe a little biased. 0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:30.160 The guy had the lawsuit on his desk for months. Months. 0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:33.240 We got to this deadline where the seasons were gonna 0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:36.400 open in Wyoming. I think it was August fifteen. These 0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:38.719 first guys are gonna go out and hunt him. He 0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:41.840 didn't even like see. The trial didn't even happen in 0:32:41.880 --> 0:32:44.840 Missoula until like that week. And then he said, I 0:32:44.920 --> 0:32:50.160 need more time. So it was they filed an injunction 0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:56.840 to stop the hunt for two weeks. So they filed 0:32:56.880 --> 0:32:59.080 in junction. Said yeah, so it stopped the hunt for 0:32:59.120 --> 0:33:00.920 two weeks, and then it took like two more weeks 0:33:01.000 --> 0:33:04.080 former rule and you finally said no. So now the 0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:07.560 US Fish and Wildlife Services appealing that in district court, 0:33:08.200 --> 0:33:11.240 which the district court that it's in I heard is 0:33:11.280 --> 0:33:14.000 not very favorable for us. So I think what we're 0:33:14.000 --> 0:33:16.120 in now is the same situation with well, you know, 0:33:16.160 --> 0:33:20.640 we're in litigation, which unfortunately, wildlife should never be managed 0:33:20.640 --> 0:33:25.280 in a court of I saw a statistic the other day, 0:33:25.680 --> 0:33:27.840 and to be honest with you, I can't save is 0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:31.920 with wolves or with grizzlies. But it was a statistic 0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:37.040 that told the gazillions of dollars that the US government 0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:41.320 has paid in litigation fees fighting these anti hunting grounds. 0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:44.240 I mean, all it takes is for somebody to follow 0:33:44.280 --> 0:33:47.160 lawsuit and to have big money, which they do, they do, 0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:50.080 and they can they can tie this thing up in 0:33:50.200 --> 0:33:54.280 court for that's the end game for them decades for 0:33:54.640 --> 0:33:58.240 or maybe forever. And plus they have that equal active justice, 0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:00.640 which I'm sure you're familiar with where the groups if 0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:03.760 they sue and win, they recoup percentage of their attorney 0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:07.840 fees from the federal government. So that it's a we 0:34:07.880 --> 0:34:09.879 need to repeal, we need to get that out of there. 0:34:09.920 --> 0:34:12.359 But it just seems it just seems so unjust. I mean, 0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:15.479 even even if you if you were to just pull 0:34:15.560 --> 0:34:19.399 out of this planet and go somewhere else where, there 0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:23.760 was a fair and equal judgment system for human morals 0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:27.080 and ethics, and we're to present this case, it would 0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:30.600 be it's crazy. It's and you know, a big thing 0:34:30.600 --> 0:34:34.840 that we've always said that these these organizations stay relevant 0:34:35.000 --> 0:34:39.319 with their population base, that their constituency by lawsuits. That's 0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:42.080 how they stay relevant. Because if they're not fighting this, 0:34:42.280 --> 0:34:45.799 they can't raise money. That's how they raise money. Is there, Well, 0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:48.799 grizzly bears are a hot point. Let's sue get rid 0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:51.120 of we get that taken care of. Its almost They 0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:54.560 really don't even they don't care about the animal. Otherwise 0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:56.800 they'd be out here with us putting collars on bears 0:34:57.160 --> 0:34:59.160 trying to figure out, they'd be putting fences up. They 0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:01.719 don't care, you know, and we're the ones with no 0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:03.919 money trying to do all this stuff. And that's what's 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:06.600 always been frustrating to us, is when it comes time 0:35:06.640 --> 0:35:08.480 to come to the table and do something for bears, 0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:10.719 no one's to be found. But when it comes time 0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:15.080 to hunting, it's like everyone in the world has got 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:18.160 an opinion and none of them are doing anything other 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:21.319 than suing. And it's just a publicity stunt for them, 0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:24.239 because you know, it's grizzly bears. And when it's not 0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:26.480 grizzly bears, now it's bear baiting. And it's kind of 0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:30.600 incredibly easy sell to someone that has no context for 0:35:30.719 --> 0:35:34.520 conservation based hunting of North America, which is the and 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:37.759 I mean every time I open my mouth I say this, 0:35:37.800 --> 0:35:40.359 but I mean, you know, the reason we have big 0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:43.160 game is because of hunters. I mean we all know that, 0:35:43.200 --> 0:35:46.719 but but I still don't think people really understand that. 0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:49.680 Well even hunters don't understand that, but non hunters not 0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:52.040 at all. No, I mean, it's such an easy sell. 0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:55.880 It's such an easy sell to put up a billboard here. Well, 0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:58.080 I know, I've seen I've seen your social media post. 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:03.719 I drive by twice a day. It's just uh and 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:05.440 and you know a lot of it boils down to 0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:08.560 like the as hunters were a consumptive user, and we 0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:11.880 pay for the resource, and and part of that money 0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:15.760 is back to wildlife management, whether it's to ensure hunting 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:19.560 seasons or just to do some habitat work on on 0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:22.880 the landscape too, for better LK habitat, you know. But 0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:25.800 that's all consumptive money. That's money that hunters are spending. 0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:28.680 And we got the anti hunters that basically don't pay 0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:32.640 a dime to manage to bring these populations to where 0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:35.680 everyone can enjoy. And as hunters, we're supposed to feel 0:36:35.680 --> 0:36:38.359 guilty about hunting. It's like we're the ones that are 0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:41.680 bringing this resource back, we're managing it and and as 0:36:41.800 --> 0:36:45.520 hunters we have to always defend ourselves. You know, I 0:36:45.520 --> 0:36:47.560 want to stop you right there. A lot of people 0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:50.480 would know this, uh, A lot of hunters that are 0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:52.600 kind of in the know, especially if they listen to 0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:55.600 the Meteor podcast, they would know what what we're saying 0:36:55.600 --> 0:36:58.919 when we say that hunters are paying for conservation. I've 0:36:59.000 --> 0:37:02.000 meant reference to me your podcast just because they they've 0:37:02.000 --> 0:37:06.520 done some in depth podcasts about the funding for conservation whatnot. 0:37:06.560 --> 0:37:08.720 But what we're talking about is the Robertson Pittman Act, 0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:14.360 which is an excise tax on hunting gear, firearms, and ammunition. 0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:19.839 So basically in the nineteen forties under Roosevelt's or somebody, Um, 0:37:20.680 --> 0:37:27.000 yeah it was, it was it was uh Franklin uh fdr. Yeah, 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:29.440 that's what he's the one that signed it in I believe. 0:37:29.800 --> 0:37:34.520 And basically they said, we're gonna a tax more on hunting, 0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:39.279 hunting and fishing gear and uh and ammunition, firearms. That 0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:41.120 money is gonna go into a big fund and the 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:44.200 federal government that's gonna be distributed to the states for 0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:47.720 wildlife conservation, for buying land, for I mean, all this stuff. 0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:49.920 So that's what we mean when we say now I 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:53.160 think it's a people have got to know that. I mean, 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:55.839 like the guys, the guys in the I mean, I 0:37:55.920 --> 0:38:00.799 bet if I pulled the average Arkansas hunter that has 0:38:00.800 --> 0:38:03.239 a hunting license, not a guy that's really into it, 0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:05.520 just a guy that bought a tag maybe gonna go shoot, 0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:07.880 he doesn't know that. He can't tell somebody that. No. 0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:11.279 So we have a lot of friends that are international 0:38:11.800 --> 0:38:15.120 that that have no context for hunting, but they know 0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:17.120 our family and they know that I make a living 0:38:17.120 --> 0:38:22.319 in the hunting industry, and I've had very good conversations 0:38:22.360 --> 0:38:24.600 with the people, and that's one of the first things 0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:28.239 I bring up is that we have paid for wildlife conservation, 0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:31.719 and boy, that rings a bell with people. So you 0:38:31.719 --> 0:38:34.920 guys are the only ones that you know basically basically 0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:37.359 you know when you look at and Rynella has talked 0:38:37.360 --> 0:38:40.840 about it. You know, the big mounds of buffalo skulls 0:38:40.960 --> 0:38:43.239 back east, you know, in the bone yards, and and 0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:45.839 there was no wildlife on this landscape in the early 0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:50.120 nineteen hundreds. And now we've hit epic uh populations of 0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:52.280 deer and elk, you know, and deer always in the west, 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:55.359 mule deer. We have more bears now than we ever 0:38:55.400 --> 0:39:00.959 have in continental wide black bear in this region, bears. 0:39:01.000 --> 0:39:03.480 And that's all through management and and hunting dollars. And 0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:07.240 we've we've managed to bring all these animals to record 0:39:07.320 --> 0:39:11.120 levels of populations, all while hunting them, all while hunting 0:39:11.160 --> 0:39:14.640 them so nothing if we take out hunting, there might 0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:17.040 be a few more, but we know the consequences of that, 0:39:17.160 --> 0:39:20.440 you know, disease and just it's wherever an animal has value. 0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:22.680 And this is an old drum that we beat because 0:39:22.719 --> 0:39:27.160 it's true. Wherever an animal has cultural value, it will 0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:31.160 be protected. It'll succeed and and it gains cultural value 0:39:31.640 --> 0:39:34.200 and has for us, and it has worked through hunting. 0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:36.600 You know, we will value it. We want to be 0:39:36.640 --> 0:39:39.200 able to partake of the resource, so we protect it 0:39:39.400 --> 0:39:43.080 and just take a small little sliver the population back 0:39:43.280 --> 0:39:45.400 so that we can have bear rugs and bear steaks. 0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:48.160 One of the biggest things that we've We've said for 0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:49.759 a long time and I heard this in one of 0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:54.600 a grizzly bear seminar, And you know, public perception is 0:39:54.640 --> 0:39:57.160 probably the biggest point right now when it comes to 0:39:57.200 --> 0:39:59.560 recovery of an animal and the grizzly bear, the public 0:39:59.560 --> 0:40:01.959 reception of the grizzly bears poor. And I I've said 0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:04.120 this for a long time. If you want to create 0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:07.400 advocates for grizzly bears, hunters are the best advocates. But 0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:09.000 we've gotta be able to hunt them. And if you 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:11.919 let hunters, you'll start getting guys that are like, I'm 0:40:11.960 --> 0:40:15.080 the biggest grizzly bear passionate hunter. I'm like that guy, 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:18.839 just like I was with black you know, just like 0:40:18.880 --> 0:40:20.640 I was a black bears. Pretty soon you're gonna have 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:22.719 guys out there just like wolves there like all I 0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:25.000 care about grizzly bears. And you can be damn sure 0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:27.040 that guy is gonna make sure that that grizzly bears 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:29.799 always on that landscape and he's on it. And so 0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:31.919 you got to create those passion points. And we've got 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:34.279 a hundred and fifty years of history to prove that 0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:37.040 that's true. Yep, it's not just a guess. No, No, 0:40:37.160 --> 0:40:40.400 it's since the Native Americans run this landscape. You know, 0:40:40.640 --> 0:40:43.279 they hunted them. Yeah, well, and and and specifically what 0:40:43.280 --> 0:40:45.600 I'm talking about is Roosevelt and Grinnell and the guys 0:40:45.600 --> 0:40:48.920 that started the Boone and Crockett Club that introduced fair 0:40:49.040 --> 0:40:53.360 Chase and and and later that rolled into wildlife management, 0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:57.040 the North American model of conservation. They did that because 0:40:57.040 --> 0:40:58.799 they hunted them. They didn't they didn't do that because 0:40:58.840 --> 0:41:01.719 they like to take photos. It's true, it's true. You 0:41:01.800 --> 0:41:04.759 take a photo of a bear. I mean, I get it. 0:41:04.760 --> 0:41:06.600 There are people that are truly passionate about bears that 0:41:06.640 --> 0:41:09.520 all they take this photos. But man, if you're a 0:41:09.520 --> 0:41:12.080 bear hunter, you're passionate about bears being there, you are 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:14.319 you want them there and then, and I think it 0:41:14.360 --> 0:41:16.120 all boils down to one other thing that we have 0:41:16.200 --> 0:41:18.319 a lot of tough trouble with in this state, which 0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:21.359 we're we're on the beginning stages of trying to do 0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:24.120 something about it, is you know, in Wyoming you don't 0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:28.759 have to take the carcass, which to me just makes 0:41:28.800 --> 0:41:32.480 it so much easier to to cause problems when you're 0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:36.520 talking to black bear. Yeah, and so you don't one 0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:39.320 towny you do as you know, um, because you've hunted 0:41:39.400 --> 0:41:43.080 up there. Uh, you've got to take the carcass and everything. 0:41:43.080 --> 0:41:45.840 In Wyoming you can leave the carcass. And so it 0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:49.560 really makes hunters in Wyoming, regardless if you leave it 0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:54.240 or not, black bear hunters look like trophy rug hunters exclusively. 0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:58.640 And so those are archaic laws that are not helping 0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:01.600 the image of hunter is in the general I the 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:04.600 public's eye that we have to change and there there. 0:42:04.640 --> 0:42:06.880 You know, we're not gonna get that changed done easily, 0:42:06.880 --> 0:42:08.359 and there's gonna be a lot of hunters that are 0:42:08.360 --> 0:42:09.960 going to disagree with us, but you know, at the 0:42:10.040 --> 0:42:11.560 end of the day, we have to do something that's 0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:14.399 going to sustain our ability to hunt bears and if 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:17.680 we look like a bunch of rugthirsty dudes out there hunting, 0:42:18.239 --> 0:42:20.800 that's not good for hunting in general and the sport 0:42:20.800 --> 0:42:23.719 of hunting. And and there's a there's a common misconception 0:42:23.760 --> 0:42:25.640 about bear meat out here in the West. You know, 0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:28.040 I've been I've hunted the East, I've hunted Canada bears 0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:31.080 out there, and that that's priced, you know, the fat 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:33.120 and everything, and out here it's like, what are you 0:42:33.160 --> 0:42:35.560 gonna do with that? And I'm like, well, I'm gonna 0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:37.720 eat it. You know, we butcher all our own stuff. 0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:40.440 And and and it's important to us trying to get 0:42:40.480 --> 0:42:42.239 that message out to other people, like hey, and if 0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:43.839 you don't want to bring it out, and we'll get 0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:46.080 someone that does. But that's something that I think needs 0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:47.879 to change out here. And that just lends to that 0:42:48.920 --> 0:42:55.640 hunters being this evil, you know, trophy driven species and 0:42:55.680 --> 0:42:58.920 that and that is our biggest thing. And and for 0:42:59.000 --> 0:43:02.880 what we've been trying to Barning Magazine is to change 0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:06.760 that perception, you know, to to tell a different story, 0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:11.560 to tell a story of of the bear is an 0:43:11.600 --> 0:43:16.040 incredible animal for wildlife related commodities. I mean, there's just 0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:18.799 all these uses that you can have for bear and 0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:23.520 uh and just telling the telling the news story of 0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:26.560 who the bear hunter is. You know when you guys 0:43:26.560 --> 0:43:28.680 have done a great job with that. Since you've got 0:43:28.760 --> 0:43:32.000 that and taken over, you can really see that publication 0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:36.680 is just it's taken huge leaps into that respect of 0:43:36.800 --> 0:43:39.600 not just being grip and grin articles, but you know, 0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:43.520 really explaining what bear hunting is in biology and you know, 0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:45.080 what to do with the meat and all that stuff. 0:43:45.120 --> 0:43:47.239 I mean, it's just been so good. And then the 0:43:47.360 --> 0:43:50.680 podcast and the movies that the video, the films that 0:43:50.719 --> 0:43:53.360 you're shooting is all helping that out. And we needed 0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:56.520 that as bear hunters. We needed a group or someone 0:43:56.560 --> 0:43:58.719 that had the ability to put that message out there 0:43:58.719 --> 0:44:01.000 because a lot of times is bear hunters and I've 0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:04.040 seen this, um, bear hunters tend to be a pretty quiet, 0:44:04.320 --> 0:44:07.680 like not very you know, out there group of people 0:44:07.760 --> 0:44:10.960 because I think we're always defending what we do, so 0:44:11.000 --> 0:44:12.920 we tend to just kind of sit in the back 0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:15.960 and like, don't bring it up because it's gonna be 0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:18.480 a problem. And so now to have a group out there, 0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:21.320 like you guys that are just really bringing a positive 0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:23.600 light to bear hunting and you know, One of the 0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:27.560 things that I that is that is important to me 0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:31.560 is that, you know, the reason that bears are the 0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:34.399 low hanging fruit for the anti hunting community and even 0:44:34.640 --> 0:44:38.600 misunderstood people that hunters that misunderstand bear hunting is because 0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:40.440 of some of the tactics that we have to use 0:44:40.520 --> 0:44:44.400 to manage bears, baiting bears and running hounds, those two things. 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:47.480 And and this is a sad This is a sad 0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:49.360 thing to me is I think there's a lot of 0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:53.719 hunters today that don't understand the macro picture of the 0:44:53.760 --> 0:44:57.080 goals the anti hunting community that would say we should 0:44:57.160 --> 0:44:59.880 just give that to them. They would say, it's not 0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:03.480 important to me. It's such a small little fraction of 0:45:03.520 --> 0:45:06.719 our hunting, you know, and it's kind of you know, 0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:09.719 there's not well, there are plenty of other animals that 0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:15.279 we bait that it's totally ethical, totally Oh, everybody in 0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:17.759 Arkansas bait white tail. People don't know how to quit 0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:20.880 learn like we quit deer hunting whitetail. We we quit 0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:24.240 being hunters about twenty years ago when Walmart started selling 0:45:24.280 --> 0:45:28.319 corn in Arkansas. I'm I'm joking about myself, but I 0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:33.000 mean it's true. But point being debat a bear just 0:45:33.040 --> 0:45:37.000 seems so to someone that doesn't understand. They misperceive how 0:45:37.360 --> 0:45:39.880 that it's uh, the difficulty of it. They think it's easy. 0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:43.759 They misperceived the motivation, they misperceived the amount of work, 0:45:44.000 --> 0:45:47.040 they misperceived all this crazy stuff about it. But one 0:45:47.120 --> 0:45:52.080 thing that I am intently harping on is that the 0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:55.479 methodology that we use that our game agencies who want 0:45:55.480 --> 0:45:59.080 animals to thrive have prescribed in the different regions of 0:45:59.080 --> 0:46:01.400 the country to hunt bears are there for a purpose, 0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:04.319 for conservation based reasons. In Arkansas, if all we had 0:46:04.360 --> 0:46:06.879 was spot and stock hunting, there would be twenty five 0:46:06.960 --> 0:46:09.400 bears killed in the state of Arkansas every year. The 0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:12.520 bears would I mean, we would have all kinds of problems. 0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:15.640 We gotta bait bears on private land in Arkansas to 0:46:15.840 --> 0:46:18.200 harvest the bears that we need. You got to manage 0:46:18.239 --> 0:46:22.560 that resource. And those game and fish managers use baiting 0:46:22.680 --> 0:46:24.960 and they use hound hunting as a tool in their 0:46:25.000 --> 0:46:28.040 bucket to manage That's all it is. That it's not 0:46:28.160 --> 0:46:30.600 a it's not a way to be like, let's kill 0:46:30.640 --> 0:46:33.160 all these bears. Are like, we're not harvesting enough bears. 0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:35.480 We need to figure out how. And they do it 0:46:35.560 --> 0:46:38.920 in Idaho. They do baiting is loud wyoming in certain 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:40.960 parts of the state where we don't have grizzly bears, 0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:43.719 and it's a tool and mean and if we got 0:46:43.840 --> 0:46:45.440 rid of it, we'd have a bunch of guys out 0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:47.440 there that don't know nothing about bear hunting spot in 0:46:47.480 --> 0:46:51.279 stock and we'd struggle, you know well. And and what 0:46:51.440 --> 0:46:53.960 I want to say to the wider hunting community is 0:46:54.000 --> 0:47:00.200 that the strategy of anti hunting communities is incrementalization. They 0:47:00.480 --> 0:47:03.600 want to chip at us piece by piece. So right 0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:06.520 now they're after baiting hounds all over the country in Maine, 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:10.000 in different places. All these associations are are geared towards 0:47:10.040 --> 0:47:14.120 defending bear associations Michigan, Wisconsin. And if we give that 0:47:14.160 --> 0:47:19.040 to them, then the next thing will be the next 0:47:19.600 --> 0:47:23.480 It's well, and then eventually, when my son is thirty 0:47:23.560 --> 0:47:26.200 five years old, they'll be after him for bo hunt. 0:47:26.200 --> 0:47:28.160 I mean, it's just like we can't. We we've got 0:47:28.239 --> 0:47:30.799 nothing left to give the anti hunting community and we 0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:35.360 need the wider We need anybody who cares about hunting 0:47:35.360 --> 0:47:37.880 in our way of life in North America needs to 0:47:37.960 --> 0:47:41.920 help us defend baiting in houns. That's that's what I 0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:44.759 want to say to people. Ultimately, you hit it on 0:47:44.800 --> 0:47:48.520 the head because if we give up one thing, one thing, 0:47:48.600 --> 0:47:51.040 I don't care what it is, we're gonna lose it all. 0:47:51.560 --> 0:47:55.359 And we've stressed it so much. In the bear hunting community, 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:59.120 there's decisive there. There's people that are divided, and we 0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:01.880 get spot inst guys that will trash on bait guys 0:48:02.040 --> 0:48:04.160 because they don't spot in stock hunting. They bait and 0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:06.320 not supposed to be easy. And we get bait guys 0:48:06.360 --> 0:48:08.840 mount At, matt At, Houndsman and Idaho because they're rigging 0:48:08.880 --> 0:48:12.040 off of their baits. I'm like, guys, we are all 0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:13.799 bear hunters at the end of the day, and they 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:17.200 are like loving this because we're divided in our own 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:20.480 ranks and we can't be that way. And and we've 0:48:20.520 --> 0:48:23.080 always said we'll support any hunting organization. We do a 0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:25.960 lot with non hunting organizations. We do anything we can 0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:28.839 because we know that we're gonna need people to come 0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:30.960 to bat for us one day as bear hunters, and 0:48:30.960 --> 0:48:33.600 and you know we support any you know, Rocky Mountainel 0:48:33.640 --> 0:48:35.399 called us said we need to do something with this 0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:37.279 or the sheep Wild Sheep said, you know, we're all 0:48:37.320 --> 0:48:41.560 about wildlife, and it's like we need that approach to bears, 0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:43.480 Like all hunters need to look at it and say, 0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:46.839 I don't hunt bears, but the antis are attacking that, 0:48:47.200 --> 0:48:50.360 and if we lose that then it's just gonna spiral. 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:54.080 Then I think that's the direction we're headed, Joe as 0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:56.520 a as a community. You know, just in the last 0:48:56.520 --> 0:48:59.400 ten years, we've really had social media. Just in the 0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:02.960 last really five years, podcasts have come up. In Podcasts 0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:06.040 are such an effective way to communicate, even probably more 0:49:06.120 --> 0:49:09.000 than the written word, because people can excess that, people 0:49:09.000 --> 0:49:12.120 can hear. But I feel like we're building to this 0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:16.520 point where the let's just say, well, let's just say 0:49:16.560 --> 0:49:18.959 bears in general, but specifically I'm talking about black bears 0:49:18.960 --> 0:49:21.759 because where we can hunt them, we're adding value to 0:49:21.880 --> 0:49:26.440 black bear hunting. On a national level, We're adding value 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:29.080 to black bears. People are starting to pay attention. People 0:49:29.120 --> 0:49:32.120 are starting to go on massive adventures like we've been 0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:33.680 on out West to go on to do it yourself 0:49:33.680 --> 0:49:36.759 spot and stock hunt. Guys in Arkansas and Oklahoma are 0:49:36.800 --> 0:49:40.520 becoming like serious bear hunters, like all of a sudden, 0:49:40.960 --> 0:49:45.439 the street cred the bear is elevating. People are gonna 0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:48.600 start caring about it more, and then we're gonna have 0:49:48.840 --> 0:49:52.160 more of this influx of Wow. We got to defend 0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:54.600 this if we love it, just like they did with sheep, 0:49:54.920 --> 0:49:57.600 just like they did without Now for those, for those 0:49:57.640 --> 0:50:00.040 their problems where they didn't have them, they didn't to 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:03.360 have the habitat. Our problem is not habitat. Whatever's happening 0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:07.680 in North America ecologically has been extremely beneficial to black 0:50:08.080 --> 0:50:10.160 in Iowa. Now, I mean habits that I don't think. 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:15.239 So it's like we've got this ripe resource and we 0:50:15.320 --> 0:50:18.000 need people to step up to bath And I mean 0:50:18.600 --> 0:50:21.359 we my hat right here, Joseph's bear hunter. I mean 0:50:21.440 --> 0:50:26.000 we're trying to build this thing of an identity a 0:50:26.040 --> 0:50:28.520 bear hunter. We need that I'm a bear hunter. We 0:50:28.680 --> 0:50:31.000 and it. Basically, what you're saying is we need to 0:50:31.000 --> 0:50:34.160 create advocates. We need hunter advocates out there, and there 0:50:34.160 --> 0:50:36.720 hasn't been a lot for bear hunting. As bear hunting 0:50:36.760 --> 0:50:40.120 gets more popular, it's a double edged sword. As bear 0:50:40.200 --> 0:50:42.920 hunting becomes more popular, you've got guys that don't like 0:50:43.040 --> 0:50:45.239 it because now all of a sudden, I have the 0:50:45.360 --> 0:50:48.080 same drainage I would I would bear hunt in but 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:51.640 at the same token, we now have more people that 0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:53.680 will fight to fight for us, and we need to 0:50:53.760 --> 0:50:57.360 and we're still so far behind what a lot of 0:50:57.360 --> 0:50:59.640 these groups are. We got to keep building that out. 0:50:59.680 --> 0:51:01.719 And that's why it's so important to create advocates for 0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:05.080 hunting bears. And like I said, bear huntings popularity is 0:51:05.120 --> 0:51:07.719 exploded and and we're kind of on the front of 0:51:07.760 --> 0:51:09.920 that right now, and we were like, we need to 0:51:09.960 --> 0:51:12.640 build that out because the more people that buy bear 0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:15.439 tags are advocates for bear hunting, you know, and that's 0:51:15.480 --> 0:51:18.960 what we need. That's our defense mechanism, right It really 0:51:19.000 --> 0:51:22.160 doesn't and you know, talking to you, it's like this 0:51:22.360 --> 0:51:25.360 idea has grown as even as we're talking. But it 0:51:25.400 --> 0:51:29.000 almost doesn't make sense that the icon of North American 0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:33.560 wilderness the bear has not been elevated to this high 0:51:33.680 --> 0:51:37.680 position of cultural significance in the hunting community, because the 0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:40.440 same thing that you experienced here is what I experienced 0:51:40.480 --> 0:51:44.200 in Arkansas, that we had a world class resource and 0:51:44.239 --> 0:51:48.440 people just didn't really care about it. But that's changing 0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:52.160 and it and it changes when people like us step 0:51:52.239 --> 0:51:55.560 up and say, wait a minute, this is awesome that 0:51:55.719 --> 0:51:59.800 the foundations of our North American hunting culture were built 0:51:59.840 --> 0:52:02.000 on bear hunter. I mean, you know, I used that 0:52:02.000 --> 0:52:04.040 phrase a lot, and and I didn't make it up. 0:52:04.160 --> 0:52:08.440 I've read it somewhere. Bears the icon of North American wilderness, 0:52:08.480 --> 0:52:11.400 like in in so many of our the patriarchs of 0:52:11.840 --> 0:52:15.319 the North American hunting that we know identified themselves as 0:52:15.360 --> 0:52:17.800 bear hunters. And specifically I'm talking about Teddy Roosevelt and 0:52:17.880 --> 0:52:22.200 Daniel Boone among many others. I mean, they identified themselves 0:52:22.840 --> 0:52:25.880 as bear hunters. You know, Boone, I think killed and 0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:28.799 fifty five bears one winner. And you were a bad 0:52:28.880 --> 0:52:31.960 dude if you bear hunted back in Yes, you were 0:52:32.000 --> 0:52:36.200 a man's man, that's right. I see pictures of you know, uh, 0:52:36.560 --> 0:52:39.319 Roosevelt and Buffalo Bill Cody at their hunting lodge up 0:52:39.320 --> 0:52:41.359 here at Pahaska from the old days, you know, black 0:52:41.360 --> 0:52:43.080 and white pictures and they got cheap and eak and 0:52:43.120 --> 0:52:45.919 stuff and two bears and like that. It's been going 0:52:46.000 --> 0:52:49.440 on forever, you know, the in Arkansas. I read some 0:52:49.520 --> 0:52:52.000 literature one time, and one author said that it was 0:52:52.040 --> 0:52:54.520 a status symbol back in the eighteen hundreds to have 0:52:54.560 --> 0:52:57.319 a big bear drying on your barn. I mean it 0:52:57.400 --> 0:52:59.719 was like it was like man that and it was 0:53:00.080 --> 0:53:02.359 was deeper than just you know, like Ego, he killed 0:53:02.360 --> 0:53:04.440 a big bear. But if you killed the big bear 0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:08.040 back in eighteen thirty seven, man, you had enough lard 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:10.680 for the winter, You had enough meat for the wind, 0:53:11.800 --> 0:53:13.560 had a heck of a rug that you could either 0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:16.520 sell or keep. Like it was a status symbol. It was. 0:53:16.600 --> 0:53:18.640 It was like having a Porsche park in front of 0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:24.480 your house, you know. But that's that's the And I 0:53:24.520 --> 0:53:26.960 think what I've kind of discovered, and I think it's 0:53:27.040 --> 0:53:30.880 kind of it's maybe interesting that I'm from Arkansas, a 0:53:30.920 --> 0:53:35.280 place that people hit nationally wouldn't know as a bear state. 0:53:36.040 --> 0:53:39.040 But it's kind of cool because Arkansas was once start 0:53:39.040 --> 0:53:42.160 in the as the bear state. But more importantly than that, 0:53:42.280 --> 0:53:44.480 from what we're trying to do from a media perspective, is, 0:53:44.800 --> 0:53:46.920 you know, we just came back from Montana and had 0:53:46.960 --> 0:53:52.400 an incredible world class do it yourself adventure in the 0:53:52.400 --> 0:53:56.560 back country of Montana and killed the nice bear. And like, 0:53:56.840 --> 0:53:59.719 this is like a totally new experience for me, even 0:53:59.719 --> 0:54:02.719 in I mean, I've done it several times now, but 0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:05.560 if you look at my whole life, I did not 0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:08.200 grow up doing that kind of hunt. And so it's 0:54:08.239 --> 0:54:14.680 like it's it's the bear encompasses such a massive range, 0:54:14.920 --> 0:54:17.560 all these different methods of hunting, and it's almost like 0:54:17.600 --> 0:54:20.200 I feel like, you know, a guy just coming out 0:54:20.239 --> 0:54:24.680 here and just discovering this incredible world. And that's yeah. 0:54:24.960 --> 0:54:26.680 And you know what's funny to me as we talk 0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:31.560 about all the opportunities for bear hunters in North America 0:54:31.680 --> 0:54:34.800 down to Mexico, there's bears, I mean the black bears 0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:37.560 in Old Mexico. Yep. We I look at a group 0:54:37.640 --> 0:54:40.720 like the Wild Cheap Foundation, how successful they are. They've 0:54:40.760 --> 0:54:44.719 built that organization with hunters that may never hunt a 0:54:44.760 --> 0:54:48.000 wild cheap. They spend most of their money on wild 0:54:48.280 --> 0:54:50.200 They spend a lot of money going to wild Cheap, 0:54:50.280 --> 0:54:53.640 which Wild Cheap are very Um, how do I want 0:54:53.640 --> 0:54:57.920 to say this? Uh, they're susceptible to disease, are fragile species, 0:54:58.040 --> 0:55:00.239 and we got to do a lot to protect them. 0:55:00.239 --> 0:55:02.200 And I don't discredit what they're doing. They've done an 0:55:02.200 --> 0:55:04.880 amazing job and I hope one day I can. But 0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:09.040 people will spend erroneous amounts of money. I shouldn't say erroneous. 0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:10.680 They'll spend a lot of money. I'm gonna get in 0:55:10.719 --> 0:55:13.120 trouble here. They'll spend a lot of money for a 0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:16.719 foundation for sheep, and it's a species they may never 0:55:16.760 --> 0:55:20.480 get a hunt in their life. Meanwhile, we have bears 0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:24.080 that you can buy tags for over the counter, and people, 0:55:24.120 --> 0:55:26.440 I think take that for granted. I think if bears 0:55:26.440 --> 0:55:31.919 were so obscure and so limited an opportunity, we would 0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:35.239 maybe be in a different conversation right now. We would 0:55:35.239 --> 0:55:38.759 be talking about something like the wild sheep does and 0:55:38.760 --> 0:55:40.600 they're like, we have a bunch of people that really 0:55:40.600 --> 0:55:42.640 want to hunt sheep, so they're going to spend the 0:55:42.680 --> 0:55:45.279 money to ensure that there's a future for sheep. We 0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:47.399 don't have a problem for the future of bears really, 0:55:47.960 --> 0:55:49.960 so people take for granted, like if we didn't have 0:55:50.000 --> 0:55:53.319 a lot of really good maybe people would be a 0:55:53.320 --> 0:55:55.280 little bit more in tune with bear hunting and bears 0:55:55.280 --> 0:55:57.160 and be like, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna do whatever 0:55:57.200 --> 0:56:00.120 it takes to make sure what you're describing is the 0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:04.479 good old days of bear hunting. I mean, let's flip 0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:07.480 the equation and all of a sudden, the bear becomes 0:56:07.480 --> 0:56:10.440 the desirable game species for people to hunt, advocate for, 0:56:10.560 --> 0:56:14.480 and care about. Well, guess what, there's enormous amounts of 0:56:14.520 --> 0:56:18.080 opportunity in the direction you drive. So it's like we're 0:56:18.080 --> 0:56:20.319 in the glory years. I mean, you take it back 0:56:20.360 --> 0:56:23.240 to your analogy of the sheep. Imagine if you could 0:56:23.280 --> 0:56:27.320 buy over the counter sheep tag ins wouldn't be you 0:56:27.360 --> 0:56:29.120 know they would it wouldn't be they weren't naturally in 0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:30.759 that many but but it wouldn't be that big of 0:56:30.800 --> 0:56:33.400 a deal. You know that the Wild Sheep Foundation as 0:56:33.440 --> 0:56:36.359 a foundation wouldn't probably be as successful as they are. 0:56:36.680 --> 0:56:39.120 And and it's it's it's funny to me. That's like 0:56:39.640 --> 0:56:42.799 when you have a species that's so readily available that 0:56:42.880 --> 0:56:46.160 you have such a tough time advocating for it and 0:56:46.200 --> 0:56:49.160 a tough time getting people to be passionate about it. 0:56:49.600 --> 0:56:51.520 But you take a species that you may never hunt 0:56:51.560 --> 0:56:54.000 in your life and you're the biggest fan of that 0:56:54.320 --> 0:56:56.120 because you may never get to do it, you really 0:56:56.120 --> 0:57:00.760 want to one day. It's crazy. Yeah, it is. Well, 0:57:01.560 --> 0:57:06.080 that's incredible stuff. Incredible stuff. Um, hey, tell us a 0:57:06.120 --> 0:57:12.600 bear story. Uh what what like have you you've encountered 0:57:12.920 --> 0:57:17.600 grizzlies obviously, I mean, like, what's it I've you know, 0:57:17.680 --> 0:57:20.400 hunt in Montana where we were at. There was certainly 0:57:20.480 --> 0:57:24.840 possibilities to you because there's there's surely some grizzly bears 0:57:24.840 --> 0:57:26.840 in that country where you guess, I mean we were. 0:57:27.120 --> 0:57:30.120 We were prepared. We had bear spray and good pistols. 0:57:30.920 --> 0:57:32.880 I mean, like we were totally prepared to be in 0:57:32.880 --> 0:57:37.120 like real bear country. But there's just not that many 0:57:37.240 --> 0:57:39.400 up there right where we were. We talked to people 0:57:39.400 --> 0:57:41.360 and they're like, you know, there's the odd grizz that 0:57:41.400 --> 0:57:43.600 comes through here, but it's certainly not like here, like 0:57:43.720 --> 0:57:46.240 we were hunting black bears here. I mean, you'd be 0:57:46.280 --> 0:57:49.280 in it's like over here if I go hunting, you know, 0:57:49.320 --> 0:57:52.160 spotting stock hunting, because we can't bait over here where 0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:54.320 the grizzlies are, so we spawned stock hunt over here. 0:57:54.320 --> 0:57:56.680 And I mean it's literally like if I go out, 0:57:56.760 --> 0:58:00.680 I might for every six grizz maybe see one black bear. 0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:03.840 I mean, and it's it's black bears don't want to 0:58:03.840 --> 0:58:05.960 be where the grids are. Yeah, And that's a big 0:58:05.960 --> 0:58:08.720 concern of ours has been like what is this population 0:58:08.720 --> 0:58:11.600 of grizzly bears done to our black bear population. You know, 0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:14.200 you put an apex predator on the landscape that they're 0:58:14.200 --> 0:58:16.520 fighting for the same food sources of black Beard, who's 0:58:16.560 --> 0:58:20.000 obviously not the same size and not as aggressive in nature. 0:58:20.440 --> 0:58:23.360 How well are they doing, you know? And so that's 0:58:23.360 --> 0:58:26.440 something that we've talked to. I've I've i've I've asked 0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:28.680 the department a lot about and there's just not a 0:58:28.680 --> 0:58:32.640 lot of information yet. So hopefully maybe they can't imagine 0:58:32.640 --> 0:58:36.120 that they're winning. And there's a lot of black bears 0:58:36.160 --> 0:58:39.240 over here, but you tend to see them move around 0:58:39.240 --> 0:58:42.240 more in the daytime. Why the grizzly bears are moving 0:58:42.280 --> 0:58:43.920 more in the morning and at night. So and I 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:46.120 think you have to change your tactics. But you know, 0:58:46.200 --> 0:58:49.640 the grizzly bears around here. I don't have as many 0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:52.120 stories while black bear hunting as I do just deer 0:58:52.160 --> 0:58:55.840 and elk hunting, and just some fascinating encounters as far 0:58:55.880 --> 0:58:59.360 as you know, like having to have guns drawn on 0:58:59.520 --> 0:59:01.960 bears and so close and and and I've been lucky 0:59:02.080 --> 0:59:05.840 enough not to have one charge me. Um. I've had 0:59:05.880 --> 0:59:09.120 him next to my tent in that country for hunting, 0:59:09.200 --> 0:59:11.520 and you can hear them breathe and they're trying to 0:59:11.560 --> 0:59:13.720 get your dear meat out of your cash, you know. 0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:17.360 And um, you know, there's a lot of stories of 0:59:17.400 --> 0:59:20.560 guys losing their animals to to grizzly bears, you know, 0:59:20.640 --> 0:59:22.960 after the kill, and then I've been lucky. It's never 0:59:23.000 --> 0:59:26.040 happened to me. But I know if I spend enough 0:59:26.080 --> 0:59:28.680 time over there, and it will, you know. And I've 0:59:28.680 --> 0:59:31.720 seen him up close, really close. And you know, I 0:59:31.800 --> 0:59:33.600 walk in in the dark, and I hunt on foot 0:59:33.640 --> 0:59:35.240 a lot, you know, and so it's just a matter 0:59:35.280 --> 0:59:37.320 of time. But you've got to be super vigilant. I mean, 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:42.280 like spray on your chest. I carry a gun underneath 0:59:42.320 --> 0:59:44.600 my binal harness and then I carry my bear spray 0:59:44.640 --> 0:59:47.640 on my hip on my pack belt. So I always 0:59:47.680 --> 0:59:50.000 have to and I've never known, you know, I've actually 0:59:50.000 --> 0:59:53.160 had more scary encounters with black bears than I have 0:59:53.240 --> 0:59:56.400 grizzly bears. But I've seen tons of grizzly bears, but 0:59:56.520 --> 0:59:58.680 most of them I've seen it as at a distance 0:59:58.880 --> 1:00:01.880 or I've seen him to where I'm like I have 1:00:01.960 --> 1:00:04.520 time like last year, we were deer hunting, and uh, 1:00:04.600 --> 1:00:07.160 we were in an area we'd shot a deer the 1:00:07.200 --> 1:00:11.640 week before. So okay, automatically, that's like that carcass is 1:00:11.720 --> 1:00:14.240 like gonna probably have a bear by there. And we've 1:00:14.240 --> 1:00:16.800 seen bears in that drainage a bunch. We knew an 1:00:16.800 --> 1:00:18.960 outfit or had been hunting the other drainage right next 1:00:19.000 --> 1:00:20.720 to it and shot some deer the day before. And 1:00:20.760 --> 1:00:22.960 so we were walking up and there comes why to 1:00:23.000 --> 1:00:24.680 go and which drainage and we picked the one on 1:00:24.720 --> 1:00:27.000 the right where the outfit had been and seeing a 1:00:27.000 --> 1:00:29.000 bunch of crows and stuff, and we wanted to push 1:00:29.000 --> 1:00:30.800 farther back in there. And it was just kind of like, 1:00:31.280 --> 1:00:34.440 all right, let's think about this. There's two carcasses at 1:00:34.520 --> 1:00:37.520 least up there from deer, and this is the prime 1:00:37.560 --> 1:00:40.640 time for grizzlies to be out, you know, scavenging these carcasses. 1:00:40.680 --> 1:00:42.720 Let's just be smart and turn around, you know. So 1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:47.000 you have to manage manage the risk versus reward a lot, 1:00:47.080 --> 1:00:49.040 I think in this country, you know, and like be 1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:53.600 be smart. But you know, um, they're there and they're 1:00:53.680 --> 1:00:56.560 they're they're just aggressive and they're not afraid of people, 1:00:56.680 --> 1:01:00.480 which is is a problem. I mean that they they 1:01:00.480 --> 1:01:03.360 don't run like most black bears. Would um when you 1:01:03.400 --> 1:01:05.320 see him. And I've seen little ones do it, but 1:01:05.360 --> 1:01:07.200 I've seen big ones to stare you down and just 1:01:07.240 --> 1:01:10.640 walk like, just keep doing. You're in my world and 1:01:11.040 --> 1:01:12.960 you better know that. Let me ask you a question, 1:01:13.000 --> 1:01:17.440 what does Joe Condella's pool when he sees a charging bear? 1:01:17.880 --> 1:01:22.320 That's that's a great question. I've asked myself a billion times. 1:01:22.400 --> 1:01:25.680 I wish I could do both with my rifle three handed. 1:01:26.680 --> 1:01:29.000 I've asked myself so many times. You go through the 1:01:29.000 --> 1:01:31.800 scenario in your head because I think if you don't, 1:01:31.840 --> 1:01:35.200 you're being ill prepared. You have to understand what's going 1:01:35.240 --> 1:01:37.360 to happen and what could happen, and and that's a 1:01:37.360 --> 1:01:39.440 crazy thing to think about every day when you go 1:01:39.480 --> 1:01:42.560 out hunting. It's like I could get backed. It does 1:01:42.840 --> 1:01:47.040 and makes it way more real being out there and 1:01:47.080 --> 1:01:50.080 knowing that, like at any minute, you could come around 1:01:50.080 --> 1:01:52.160 a corner in your head lamp and there'll be a 1:01:52.240 --> 1:01:55.120 sow with two cubs on that same trail and you're done. 1:01:55.240 --> 1:01:58.560 And most attacks happened under five seconds, So that's what 1:01:58.680 --> 1:02:01.400 you got, and you got to make that decision in 1:02:01.440 --> 1:02:03.240 your head, and there's no way to prepare for that. 1:02:03.360 --> 1:02:05.680 So I think going over the scenario in your head 1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:10.200 and in my mind, I've always I carry bear spray 1:02:10.280 --> 1:02:14.960 because they've proven it's they say it's successful in mitigating conflict. 1:02:15.000 --> 1:02:17.800 But like to me, it just seems like I'm grabbing 1:02:17.800 --> 1:02:22.040 my pistol. Now is that the right thing to do? 1:02:22.160 --> 1:02:25.360 And I don't know. You know, bear spray becomes ineffective 1:02:25.360 --> 1:02:27.920 in the cold, wet, really cold, if it's windy. We're 1:02:27.960 --> 1:02:30.840 in Wyoming, it's always windy. I mean, it's always windy 1:02:30.840 --> 1:02:33.320 out here. So if you gotta gust going sideways and 1:02:33.360 --> 1:02:36.280 you you deploy your bear spray and it just blows 1:02:37.160 --> 1:02:40.120 or she just gets a you're you're getting it. So 1:02:40.160 --> 1:02:42.520 I don't know. For me, like I and my pistol, 1:02:42.560 --> 1:02:44.320 I don't know why. I just think that I'll grab 1:02:44.400 --> 1:02:47.480 for that. Um. The one time up there, two years ago, 1:02:47.560 --> 1:02:49.640 we had a bear come up off a carcass and 1:02:50.080 --> 1:02:53.040 was real curious, didn't charge, but it came up to 1:02:53.160 --> 1:02:55.600 us and I had my rifle down, but I had time. 1:02:56.000 --> 1:02:59.720 You know, I don't know, I think, uh, I think 1:02:59.760 --> 1:03:03.120 I to grab my pistol. But you know what, my 1:03:03.120 --> 1:03:07.600 my philosophy has been has been carry bear spray and 1:03:07.640 --> 1:03:11.080 pistol that we did Montana, and if you have time 1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:14.200 and feel like you can mitigate the situation with a 1:03:14.200 --> 1:03:17.280 bear spray, obviously you pulled one. So if you're if 1:03:17.320 --> 1:03:19.720 you're at your camp and you see agree is eighty 1:03:19.800 --> 1:03:23.120 yards away and you're like, oh crap, you know, you 1:03:23.120 --> 1:03:25.880 pull out the bear spray and you're and you're ready. 1:03:26.080 --> 1:03:27.960 But I feel like, in the heat of the moment, 1:03:28.160 --> 1:03:31.000 you're grabbing your pistol your life, and if you come 1:03:31.000 --> 1:03:33.040 around the corner there's a bear, you're grabbing the pistol 1:03:33.520 --> 1:03:35.640 your life and death. And I think that's what I 1:03:35.760 --> 1:03:37.640 carry both. I think for that reason. You know, if 1:03:37.640 --> 1:03:39.480 you see one and you're like, okay, we might have 1:03:39.520 --> 1:03:42.160 a problem here, I'm ready. I got my bear spray off. 1:03:42.680 --> 1:03:45.560 My gun is a backup. But that the old joke 1:03:45.600 --> 1:03:49.000 around here is most guys carry both the bear spray 1:03:49.080 --> 1:03:51.400 to to prevent its charge and then the gun to 1:03:51.480 --> 1:03:53.640 end your life when you've been mauled and you're gonna die, 1:03:54.840 --> 1:03:58.160 you know, to ease your suffering. But um, i've been 1:03:58.160 --> 1:03:59.959 seeing I've been encouraged to see a lot more people 1:04:00.120 --> 1:04:01.680 that come out because there's a lot of people that 1:04:01.680 --> 1:04:04.640 will come out here hunting that have no knowledge or 1:04:04.680 --> 1:04:07.960 they just refused to think it's real. And non residents 1:04:07.960 --> 1:04:10.040 come out here deer hunting and their galvant and around, 1:04:10.040 --> 1:04:12.000 no bear spray, no pistol, and they're just like what. 1:04:12.240 --> 1:04:14.440 And I'm like, dude, you know where you're hunting. Do 1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:17.360 some research. And so I've been encouraged to see a 1:04:17.400 --> 1:04:19.560 lot more people. And we've always tell people like, get 1:04:19.640 --> 1:04:22.520 bear spray, and if you do carry a pistol, know 1:04:22.560 --> 1:04:25.320 how to use it, because you could carry a pistol 1:04:25.320 --> 1:04:27.520 all you want. If you can't shoot it, you're not 1:04:27.520 --> 1:04:29.280 gonna do any good. You just as well throw it 1:04:29.320 --> 1:04:31.080 at him and hope it hit him square in between 1:04:31.080 --> 1:04:33.200 the eyes, and then it's just gonna make more mad. So, 1:04:33.640 --> 1:04:36.640 and don't carry a pistol that I carry a tin. Um. 1:04:37.360 --> 1:04:42.320 I've just been it's a Kimberton Um. I've just been 1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:45.360 more doing a lot of research. Fort is okay, But 1:04:45.440 --> 1:04:48.360 I think you want something like a tin to for 1:04:48.400 --> 1:04:52.320 the stopping power. Yeah, And I carry it a lot 1:04:52.360 --> 1:04:54.600 of times when I'm baiting or if I'm just bear hunting. 1:04:55.240 --> 1:04:59.080 What what was your hairin situation with a black bear? Well, 1:04:59.120 --> 1:05:03.280 I've had him, um like we outside of Missoula. Uh, 1:05:03.480 --> 1:05:05.520 years and years ago, we shot a black I shot 1:05:05.520 --> 1:05:07.120 a black bear and we couldn't find it. So we 1:05:07.120 --> 1:05:09.640 were stalking it, uh, falling the blood trail and it 1:05:09.720 --> 1:05:13.040 was down in this choked draw and uh, I'll never 1:05:13.120 --> 1:05:15.640 forget this, but I was standing next to my buddy. 1:05:15.680 --> 1:05:18.520 We were about ten yards apart, and I hit that bear. 1:05:18.680 --> 1:05:21.120 It was it was I was shooting down off of 1:05:21.120 --> 1:05:23.000 this ridge and the bear was walking. I tried to 1:05:23.040 --> 1:05:24.920 hit him right here, and I hit him in the face. 1:05:25.640 --> 1:05:28.840 And so he's walking and he's bleeding all over the place, 1:05:28.920 --> 1:05:31.600 you know. And then he bedded down and we walked 1:05:31.680 --> 1:05:33.280 right up on that thing and it stood up on 1:05:33.320 --> 1:05:35.200 its hind legs and it was like gonna come at 1:05:35.200 --> 1:05:38.280 my buddy, and and he's trained pistol guy, and like 1:05:38.320 --> 1:05:40.040 he pulled it out. It was just like he couldn't 1:05:40.040 --> 1:05:43.400 even I mean, like just a black bear, like couldn't 1:05:43.400 --> 1:05:46.520 even get it to Like bear turned around, wheeled off 1:05:46.520 --> 1:05:48.000 and went round up the hill and we shot it. 1:05:48.040 --> 1:05:50.160 But it was just like that quick, you know. And 1:05:50.200 --> 1:05:53.440 so but I've had him climb tree stands and you know, 1:05:53.520 --> 1:05:55.560 I've I've had him woofing at me out of sow 1:05:55.760 --> 1:05:58.120 and uh, two cubs of South put the run on me. 1:05:58.200 --> 1:06:02.200 In the in the big hole Southwest Antana spotted this 1:06:02.360 --> 1:06:04.240 bear a long ways off and that's all we could 1:06:04.240 --> 1:06:05.840 see was that one bear. So we make a run 1:06:05.880 --> 1:06:07.120 on it and we got in the timber and we're 1:06:07.120 --> 1:06:10.640 sneaking up and I hear, you know, the claws going 1:06:10.720 --> 1:06:12.640 up a tree, and I'm like, oh, I climbed the tree. 1:06:12.680 --> 1:06:14.840 And I just turned around to my right and she's 1:06:15.480 --> 1:06:18.640 wolfing at me coming. She stops and I'm like, well, 1:06:19.240 --> 1:06:21.640 so I figured the cubs had climbed the tree, you know. 1:06:21.800 --> 1:06:24.240 So we turned around and walked back, and then she 1:06:24.360 --> 1:06:25.920 kind of came back down the hill to make sure 1:06:25.960 --> 1:06:28.240 we weren't gonna stick around, and we gotta look, and 1:06:28.280 --> 1:06:30.080 she had two cubs climb up the tree. You know, 1:06:30.080 --> 1:06:32.880 I've had stuff like that, and I haven't had him, 1:06:32.920 --> 1:06:34.840 you know, around here, I see all those videos and 1:06:35.080 --> 1:06:37.280 I've hunted Canada where you got those bears that won't 1:06:37.360 --> 1:06:40.440 leave your bait. We don't get that around here, like 1:06:40.680 --> 1:06:44.120 they won't. They're so nervous around people around here a 1:06:44.160 --> 1:06:47.200 lot of times. But I have had them, you know, 1:06:47.360 --> 1:06:50.320 like when you're in the stand, or if they're pretty 1:06:50.520 --> 1:06:54.680 pretty good with you, like sniff pretty hard or you know, 1:06:55.000 --> 1:06:57.880 chomp or wolf. I had a bear do that to 1:06:57.920 --> 1:07:00.400 me last year, but I think it's I think it 1:07:00.480 --> 1:07:03.000 was more like, dude, I know you're there, but it's 1:07:03.000 --> 1:07:07.800 still like yeah, yeah, so more like that. And and 1:07:08.120 --> 1:07:10.439 you know, but I've been very fortunate and knock on wood, 1:07:10.480 --> 1:07:12.800 I haven't had an issue with the grizzly bear, but gosh, 1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:15.760 I could tell you fifty million stories of close friends 1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:18.960 and people around here that have and it happens every year. 1:07:19.000 --> 1:07:22.200 We get guys getting mauled or and it's not just hunters, 1:07:22.200 --> 1:07:25.280 it's hikers and everything else. And it's just you can 1:07:25.320 --> 1:07:28.200 do everything right that you can think of and it 1:07:28.240 --> 1:07:30.240 can still happen to you. But we just have so 1:07:30.280 --> 1:07:34.600 many and it's just it's it's just a chance. You're 1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:37.960 you're fighting the odds, I mean, anymore. And and it's 1:07:38.040 --> 1:07:40.320 changed some of my old hunting tactics, like I can't 1:07:40.400 --> 1:07:43.800 backpack hunt. I love to backpack hunt, I can't backpack 1:07:43.880 --> 1:07:46.120 hunt ilk in some of these areas because if I 1:07:46.160 --> 1:07:48.680 get an elk down in a grizzly area, there's a 1:07:48.720 --> 1:07:51.080 good chance I can't get that ilk out by myself, 1:07:51.160 --> 1:07:53.560 you know, five six miles in one trip, so I'm 1:07:53.560 --> 1:07:56.120 gonna have to make multiple trips. And and there's just 1:07:56.160 --> 1:07:57.920 a good chance on that next trip back and I 1:07:57.960 --> 1:08:00.120 don't have horses, that there's gonna be a bear on 1:08:00.200 --> 1:08:03.160 the on the carcass. So it's like, it's it's crazy 1:08:03.200 --> 1:08:06.080 to think that one animal can change what you do, 1:08:06.200 --> 1:08:09.360 but you know, and I never thought it would, but 1:08:09.600 --> 1:08:13.040 it does, it does, it does, and then they're remarkable 1:08:13.080 --> 1:08:14.680 to see out in the wild. I had a mountain 1:08:14.680 --> 1:08:16.760 goat permit for the wilderness up here right on the 1:08:16.800 --> 1:08:19.880 edge of Yellowstone Park, and my best friend came down 1:08:19.880 --> 1:08:23.080 and hunted with me, and he's like, he's from Southwest Montown. 1:08:23.160 --> 1:08:24.840 He's like, I've never seen a grizz in the wild 1:08:24.880 --> 1:08:27.160 I was like, well, we were hunting behind this thing 1:08:27.200 --> 1:08:29.400 called the bear Gate. It's a place where they drop 1:08:29.400 --> 1:08:31.160 a lot of the bears that they have to relocate 1:08:31.200 --> 1:08:33.760 because you can bring a culvert trap in there, and 1:08:33.800 --> 1:08:36.200 then the gate closes until July, and then in July 1:08:36.320 --> 1:08:38.920 to September it's open. It's a it's a beautiful bear 1:08:38.960 --> 1:08:42.479 habitat Big Big Peaks, it's gorgeous right on the park border. 1:08:43.000 --> 1:08:45.519 And I said, well, Bud, you're gonna see some grizzly bears. 1:08:45.640 --> 1:08:48.960 And I said, if we don't have a close encounter, 1:08:49.520 --> 1:08:52.360 I'll be shocked. We hunted in there for seven days 1:08:52.360 --> 1:08:54.479 and didn't see one grizzly bear. He's like, dude, I 1:08:54.520 --> 1:08:57.320 hear all these stories, and I'm like, we were. I 1:08:57.360 --> 1:08:59.639 don't even know how happy I am and how lucky 1:08:59.680 --> 1:09:01.240 I feel. He's like, I just wanted to see one 1:09:01.280 --> 1:09:03.720 far away. And I was like, well, but we I 1:09:03.760 --> 1:09:05.559 mean I could, honestly, you could drive up the North 1:09:05.560 --> 1:09:09.600 Fork today and probably see one. Yeah, it's incredible. That 1:09:09.720 --> 1:09:15.200 is incredible. Well, hey, this has been a super good conversation. Yeah, 1:09:15.240 --> 1:09:18.680 any closing thoughts, No, just keep up the good work, man. 1:09:18.760 --> 1:09:21.040 We need what you're doing out there. And you know, 1:09:21.120 --> 1:09:23.400 if anyone's hunting in the West and and and we 1:09:23.680 --> 1:09:25.360 I feeled a lot of calls for guys trying to 1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:27.000 figure out how to bear hunt, you know, And like 1:09:27.040 --> 1:09:29.160 I said, that's what we're here for. We're not only 1:09:29.760 --> 1:09:32.519 a group out there building fences and and keeping bears 1:09:32.520 --> 1:09:34.559 out of trouble. We're there for the bear hunter. The 1:09:34.760 --> 1:09:37.680 prospective bear hunter that wants to learn or has questions 1:09:37.760 --> 1:09:40.559 and you know, um, that's what we're here for. And 1:09:40.600 --> 1:09:42.959 when you pick up the number you get on our website, 1:09:43.040 --> 1:09:45.839 you call you, you call me, or you email me personally, 1:09:45.880 --> 1:09:48.559 and and so we're really really hands on that way. 1:09:48.600 --> 1:09:51.000 And um, just love to talk. And we've met so 1:09:51.080 --> 1:09:53.000 I met so many people doing this that it's just 1:09:53.040 --> 1:09:55.679 been it's been truly a pleasure. So and finally get 1:09:55.680 --> 1:09:58.400 to meet you in person, it's been great. Yeah, yeah, 1:09:58.600 --> 1:10:02.000 I'm glad it worked out today. And uh, hey, I'm 1:10:02.000 --> 1:10:04.639 gonna say the exact same thing back to you doing 1:10:04.680 --> 1:10:06.840 what you're doing. Man, for real, I got a lot 1:10:06.840 --> 1:10:08.800 of respect, thank you for what you guys are doing it. 1:10:08.880 --> 1:10:12.480 And I think it's really just the beginning. And I 1:10:12.479 --> 1:10:16.120 I mean, you see, I just really believe that as 1:10:16.200 --> 1:10:19.639 the the status of the big game animal, the bear 1:10:19.720 --> 1:10:22.439 continues to elevate, that there's gonna be more and more 1:10:22.479 --> 1:10:26.680 emphasis put on conservation and advocacy for bear hunting. And 1:10:26.960 --> 1:10:29.519 you guys are the thing in the West right now. 1:10:29.840 --> 1:10:33.000 We're we're hoping to growing off to where we're really 1:10:33.000 --> 1:10:35.679 effective and being that voice for bears and bear hunters. 1:10:35.680 --> 1:10:37.439 In the West where it's like we're the go to 1:10:37.640 --> 1:10:39.760 and and I think in twenty years you and I 1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:41.759 are going to sit down and just be like thankful 1:10:41.800 --> 1:10:43.519 we did what we did, even though that a lot 1:10:43.560 --> 1:10:45.920 of it was a struggle. I think we're doing the 1:10:46.000 --> 1:10:49.200 right thing for future generations and that's important to me. 1:10:49.880 --> 1:10:54.040 Right on. Man, Well, well thanks boys. Great. I didn't 1:10:54.040 --> 1:11:00.880 even introduce to couldn't get a word in I driving planning. 1:11:01.320 --> 1:11:04.320 Uh now, Kobe, Kobe just keeps me on trackbe anything 1:11:04.360 --> 1:11:07.120 else we need to cover here. I mean, I guess 1:11:07.160 --> 1:11:09.760 the only thing I was thinking about is whenever you're 1:11:09.760 --> 1:11:11.760 thinking about different types of hunting, you just have to 1:11:11.840 --> 1:11:14.960 look for the challenges that that group does. So, I mean, 1:11:15.439 --> 1:11:17.200 my first bear hunt was last year and it was 1:11:17.240 --> 1:11:20.680 on a baited hunt with an outfitter. Uh And on 1:11:20.720 --> 1:11:25.040 the last by the way, yeah it was good. Um, 1:11:25.080 --> 1:11:27.960 but on the last day there wasn't uh like, I 1:11:28.000 --> 1:11:30.320 wasn't on a hunt. So I went and I actually 1:11:30.360 --> 1:11:34.160 like ran the line with the outfitter and helped baiting. Man, 1:11:34.200 --> 1:11:36.080 I was I was dying out there. It was a 1:11:36.080 --> 1:11:37.839 lot of work. Even though he had a four wheeler 1:11:37.840 --> 1:11:40.640 and could get to him there's a lot of misconceptions 1:11:40.640 --> 1:11:42.320 about bait hunting, and I don't have to tell you 1:11:42.320 --> 1:11:43.880 because you do a lot of it. And I put 1:11:43.880 --> 1:11:45.559 in a lot of work, a lot of time, and 1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:48.160 a lot of money to do it. And I was 1:11:48.200 --> 1:11:50.240 talking that we had an event down in Rock Springs, 1:11:50.240 --> 1:11:51.960 and I'll make this short. We had an event down 1:11:51.960 --> 1:11:54.160 in Rock Springs and they all bait hunt down there, 1:11:54.240 --> 1:11:56.320 you know, And and I They're like, man, i'd love 1:11:56.400 --> 1:11:58.719 to go spot stock hunt in Montana, this one couple. 1:11:58.760 --> 1:12:00.280 And I was like, well, if you do want to goal, 1:12:00.360 --> 1:12:02.960 I can point in some areas. And so I was 1:12:02.960 --> 1:12:04.559 talking around the phone the other day and she's like, 1:12:04.600 --> 1:12:06.280 I don't need to do this with bait. I don't 1:12:06.280 --> 1:12:08.920 need to do this. She's like, holy crap. Spot stock 1:12:09.000 --> 1:12:11.200 hunting sounds so much easier in bath hunging. I'm like, 1:12:11.520 --> 1:12:13.439 it's not as easy to find them. But I said, 1:12:13.520 --> 1:12:16.000 they all have their challenges. And I said, bait hunting 1:12:16.080 --> 1:12:17.760 is time consuming and it's a lot of work if 1:12:17.760 --> 1:12:20.599 you're gonna do it right. Houndsmen have other challenges. They 1:12:20.640 --> 1:12:23.679 got the amount of money they put into their dog 1:12:24.960 --> 1:12:27.519 days all year round just to hunt a few months 1:12:27.560 --> 1:12:29.040 out of the year. So every one of them has 1:12:29.080 --> 1:12:31.599 their challenges, like you said, and I think it's key 1:12:31.600 --> 1:12:34.160 to to explain that to people, like people have never 1:12:34.200 --> 1:12:36.600 bait hunted, like I would love to take you, and 1:12:36.640 --> 1:12:38.800 so you can understand what it is. You know, and 1:12:39.080 --> 1:12:40.920 just because you put bait out there doesn't mean you're 1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:42.720 gonna shoot a bear. I mean, I wish it was 1:12:42.760 --> 1:12:45.920 that easy. That's that's that's awesome that you said that. 1:12:46.160 --> 1:12:48.320 Now I have a thing that I say in private, 1:12:48.320 --> 1:12:50.360 and I'll make it public here. I had. I had 1:12:50.360 --> 1:12:53.080 a spotting stock given me a hard time about bait 1:12:53.160 --> 1:12:55.439 and bearing. I'm a friend totally. We were just ribbing 1:12:55.439 --> 1:12:57.800 each other and he was talking about how easy it 1:12:57.800 --> 1:12:59.679 would be to hunt bear of her bait, and I said, 1:12:59.680 --> 1:13:02.519 way to minute, you're telling me that you just wake 1:13:02.600 --> 1:13:04.360 up in the morning on the day you decide you're 1:13:04.360 --> 1:13:08.320 gonna hunt and strut out to some hilltop glass of 1:13:08.400 --> 1:13:10.880 bear from a long ways away that doesn't know he's 1:13:10.920 --> 1:13:14.280 being hunted, and walk over to him and shoot him 1:13:14.320 --> 1:13:17.439 from two hundred yards. And I'm like, you're telling me 1:13:17.640 --> 1:13:21.040 that that that sounds easy to me. It's a joke, 1:13:21.280 --> 1:13:23.280 a joke. It's just like you're hunting an animal that 1:13:23.320 --> 1:13:25.360 doesn't even know he's been hunted. Come on, man, that's 1:13:25.400 --> 1:13:28.240 not even fair. Chase. You know, I always say this. 1:13:28.360 --> 1:13:30.120 I have a joke too, I said, well, feeding bears 1:13:30.160 --> 1:13:32.760 is easy because they're gonna eat, but killing him on 1:13:32.840 --> 1:13:35.160 bait is a totally different story. I don't care how 1:13:35.240 --> 1:13:39.040 dialed in you are. And I I've been humbled just 1:13:39.120 --> 1:13:41.439 about the time I think I got bears figured out, 1:13:42.080 --> 1:13:45.040 I get a year, I'm just like, what am I doing? 1:13:45.200 --> 1:13:47.320 You know, they just totally will humble you. And it's like, 1:13:47.600 --> 1:13:49.680 that's why I love him so much, and their individual 1:13:49.760 --> 1:13:53.160 qualities and every body they're like people. Every bear is 1:13:53.200 --> 1:13:55.400 different and some days are in good moods and some 1:13:55.479 --> 1:13:57.840 days are in crappy moods. And a cool thing about 1:13:57.880 --> 1:14:01.160 baiting that I grew up bot stock hunting and it's 1:14:01.200 --> 1:14:03.719 my passion. I love it, um, but I never got 1:14:03.720 --> 1:14:08.080 to really observe and be around bears like I do now. Baits. 1:14:08.120 --> 1:14:11.080 There's no other hunt for North American big game that 1:14:11.120 --> 1:14:14.040 you get to interact as closely with an animal for 1:14:14.080 --> 1:14:15.960 as long a period of times as a baited black 1:14:15.960 --> 1:14:18.960 bear hunt. And it'll change your view and your respect 1:14:19.040 --> 1:14:22.360 level for bears when you get to sit there. I mean, 1:14:22.479 --> 1:14:26.240 I was in Alberta hunting and it got dark, and 1:14:26.439 --> 1:14:28.280 you know in Canada, and I did a similar thing. 1:14:28.360 --> 1:14:29.960 I brought my own four wheeler up and I ran 1:14:30.040 --> 1:14:32.160 baits and I did. I was like, you're not. And 1:14:32.200 --> 1:14:33.720 I was up there for like ten days and I 1:14:33.800 --> 1:14:36.200 hunted this one bait for this whopper bear that had 1:14:36.200 --> 1:14:39.080 on camera and I sat. I sat the last day. 1:14:39.120 --> 1:14:42.040 I sat from morning until dark and didn't leave there. 1:14:42.040 --> 1:14:44.559 And that dumb thing never came in, but that like 1:14:44.600 --> 1:14:46.599 ten other bears came in. And by the by it 1:14:46.640 --> 1:14:49.400 got dark, it was like eleven or twelve, and I 1:14:49.439 --> 1:14:51.000 was like, well, I'm gonna walk down to my fore 1:14:51.040 --> 1:14:53.759 whether it's dark, and this baits like seven yards away 1:14:53.880 --> 1:14:56.960 and there's bears. The one sole came up the dang 1:14:56.960 --> 1:14:59.280 tree and it was just western in there, and I 1:14:59.320 --> 1:15:02.240 loved every second of it. But I'll never forget as 1:15:02.240 --> 1:15:04.200 long as I live, and I get chills talking about it. 1:15:04.240 --> 1:15:06.679 And they've baited with a lot of beef and meat 1:15:06.680 --> 1:15:08.760 scraps up there, and you can hear those things down 1:15:08.760 --> 1:15:13.000 there snapping bones. And these aren't even whopper bears. You know, 1:15:13.160 --> 1:15:16.439 five footers, they're just snapping bones and crunching, and you 1:15:16.479 --> 1:15:19.120 had to crawl down the stand. The barrels here like 1:15:19.240 --> 1:15:20.920 right across from and you had to kind of go 1:15:21.000 --> 1:15:22.880 in between the stand and the barrel and like eight 1:15:22.960 --> 1:15:25.040 yards to get out of there. And I'm like, here 1:15:25.080 --> 1:15:27.920 we go, man, you know what alive? What a way 1:15:27.920 --> 1:15:31.280 to feel alive. But yeah, everything is. But baiting has 1:15:31.320 --> 1:15:34.160 made it to where I can really pay attention bears 1:15:34.200 --> 1:15:36.120 and I don't know how many years I've not shot 1:15:36.160 --> 1:15:38.880 bears and I've just sat there for nights and just 1:15:39.200 --> 1:15:42.320 watched them and took pictures and just loved being not 1:15:42.439 --> 1:15:45.560 close and just seeing them and gosh, their manners and 1:15:45.680 --> 1:15:48.880 they're amazing. I can talk about it forever. That bated 1:15:48.960 --> 1:15:52.160 hunt is what like gave me that appreciation for bearers 1:15:52.200 --> 1:15:55.120 because they just every single one had a different characteristic 1:15:55.160 --> 1:15:57.120 or mannerisms are the way that they acted. So it 1:15:57.200 --> 1:15:59.680 was just like knowing that they have a personality light 1:16:00.080 --> 1:16:04.400 the spotting stock spoiler alert, it kicked my butt. Yeah, 1:16:04.439 --> 1:16:10.719 well you went from to Montana, who different, just different. 1:16:11.400 --> 1:16:14.000 They all offer their own challenges and and not one's 1:16:14.040 --> 1:16:16.120 worse than the other, better than the other They're all 1:16:16.240 --> 1:16:19.040 awesome and I I've yet to do a hound hunt. 1:16:19.080 --> 1:16:22.080 That is my I'm going to. I was gonna try 1:16:22.080 --> 1:16:24.200 and do one this year, and I got that Grizzly tag, 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:26.840 so that one on the on the snide. So I've 1:16:26.880 --> 1:16:29.760 got to get behind hounds chasing bears one of these days. 1:16:29.840 --> 1:16:31.680 Whether I take one or not, I just want to 1:16:31.680 --> 1:16:34.400 do it. I've chased cats with dogs, but I want 1:16:34.439 --> 1:16:37.920 to do a bear one so bad, uh, because I 1:16:37.960 --> 1:16:40.000 want to experience it all. And I know that's something 1:16:40.040 --> 1:16:42.400 be easy either. I just love it. It's a whole 1:16:42.400 --> 1:16:44.800 different challenge everyone, and that's what's so cool about it, 1:16:45.040 --> 1:16:48.439 all these different challenges. Hey, we better wrap it up here. Yeah, 1:16:49.160 --> 1:16:52.000 thanks bunch, Joe, thank you guys. Good to be here. 1:16:53.000 --> 1:16:55.080 Keep you wild places wild, because that's where the bears 1:16:55.120 --> 1:17:03.640 going pretty well be