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Speaker 1: Interstate Batteries has been a proud supporter of the Sportsman's

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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into

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Speaker 1: the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness. There,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about tactics, gear conservation, but will also bring

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Speaker 1: you into some of the wildest country on the planet

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Speaker 1: chasing battery. On this episode, we're in Cody, Wyoming at

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Speaker 1: the office of Joe condellas the founder of the Western

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Speaker 1: Bear Foundation. We have a intriguing conversation about why bears

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Speaker 1: are amazing critters, the history of bears in the West. Also,

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Speaker 1: we talk a lot about grizzly bear conflict and mitigation

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Speaker 1: that's going on right now in the very complex issues

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Speaker 1: of the grizzly bear world in the West. And Hey,

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Speaker 1: you check out the Western Bear Foundation. These guys are

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Speaker 1: doing a lot out West, and Hey, if somebody doesn't

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Speaker 1: stand up and say that, as big predator managers and

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Speaker 1: hunters and people that utilize the wildlife related commodities of

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Speaker 1: big predators, if somebody doesn't speak up for us, then

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Speaker 1: nobody's going to in the anti hunting community is going

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Speaker 1: to have the first rights to the narrative of big

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Speaker 1: game hunting and specifically large predator hunting. People like Joe

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Speaker 1: Condeles in the Western Bear Foundation are putting action into

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Speaker 1: our narrative of why we're the of guys, why we

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Speaker 1: care about wildlife, and why that we want to continue

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Speaker 1: on with the ancient and honorable tradition of hunting large

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Speaker 1: creditors and managing the landscape for the betterment of all wildlife.

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Speaker 1: All at the same time of us enjoying hunting and

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Speaker 1: loving the challenge of it and taking some satisfaction and

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Speaker 1: getting to hunt big predators. You're gonna enjoy this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. We are again

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Speaker 1: in Cody, Wyoming. Colby and I are heading back from

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Speaker 1: our Montana hunt and I just met a guy for

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Speaker 1: the first time that I feel like I've known for

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Speaker 1: a long time because we have Yes, it is bizarre

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Speaker 1: that we've never met face to face. I feel like

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Speaker 1: you can develop relationships over phone and email that are

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Speaker 1: almost like you've known each other for exactly. So that's

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Speaker 1: that's what's happening today. I've got Joe Condellas with me.

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Speaker 1: We're in his office here, yeah, Cody, yeah, yeah, And

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Speaker 1: so let me I'll give a introduction to you just

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Speaker 1: a little bit, but then I'm gonna hand over to

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Speaker 1: you to give a better introduction. But Joe is uh,

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Speaker 1: Joe is the founder with Western Bear Foundation. Is that statement.

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Speaker 1: So that's part of what this podcast is gonna be.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna hear about the Western Bear Foundation. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: I want to I want Joe to go into detail

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Speaker 1: of the of the the grizzly situation. I mean, we're

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Speaker 1: at we are at the heartthrow place for all this

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Speaker 1: controversy about grizzly bears. You're sitting about well, you know,

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Speaker 1: fifty miles from the park right here. Everything that's grizzly

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Speaker 1: bear related that is basically stemmed out of this range

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Speaker 1: right here. It's just you're you're in the I mean

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Speaker 1: the hub. Yeah. So this is like the hot topic

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Speaker 1: of our time right now for large predator management and

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Speaker 1: there it's such a complex issue and uh, so I

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Speaker 1: want to hear from you because your foundation is doing

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Speaker 1: so much inside of that. Um. But before we do that,

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Speaker 1: tell me, So, I met you years ago when I

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Speaker 1: had started the Arkansas Blackbarrasis. That's when I contact time ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like probably two thousand eleven or something. Now, when did

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Speaker 1: when did the Western Bear Foundation officially we got our

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Speaker 1: five oh one C three status and like, oh, well

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Speaker 1: it's in, but we got we kind of were loosely

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Speaker 1: trying to build this thing up to where we were

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Speaker 1: federally in like oh seven seven, so, but in in

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Speaker 1: ten and eleven, that's what I remember messaging you on

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Speaker 1: Facebook because I saw, Hey, this guy's starting bear association

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Speaker 1: out west and I was doing a similar kind of

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Speaker 1: thing in Arkansas at the time, and so I remember

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Speaker 1: reaching out to you, and it probably wasn't It was.

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Speaker 1: It was sometime later that we really connected more when

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Speaker 1: I got into Bear Hunting magazine. Um. But uh, but

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Speaker 1: just for information sake, members of the Western Bear Foundation

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Speaker 1: receive a copy of Bear Hunting Magazine. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: been that's a huge part of our membership. Like people

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Speaker 1: want something you know they want to cause, but they

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Speaker 1: also want something to return. And I mean, we're a

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Speaker 1: bear hunting organization, conservation and hunting, but what a better

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Speaker 1: thing to offer him? Like, we can't afford to put

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Speaker 1: out a publication. We don't know what we're doing when

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Speaker 1: it comes to that. So it was just like reached

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Speaker 1: out to Clay right away and it was like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: would you guys be interested in doing this? And so

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Speaker 1: basically Bear Hunting Magazine is our subscription that our members get,

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Speaker 1: you know, so it's a it's a huge value for them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: right on. Well it's been a great relationship for us

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Speaker 1: and uh so to get into well, let me and

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Speaker 1: take it a further further step back. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: your I mean, you're a you're a businessman here, you're

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Speaker 1: you're a hunter. Yeah, what was your intrigue with bears

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Speaker 1: that hooked you into this? Yeah, it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: crazy story, but you know, I grew up hunting in

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Speaker 1: southwest Montana, grew up in Butte. Uh family of hunters.

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Speaker 1: My grandpa came over from he was in Minnesota and

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Speaker 1: moved his whole family grew up there and they moved

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Speaker 1: out to Montana and and you know, my dad grew

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Speaker 1: up hunting, and everyone grew up hunting, but no one

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Speaker 1: in our family was really bear hunters. They were strictly

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Speaker 1: at that time, my grandpa was subsistence hunting, you know,

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Speaker 1: they needed the meet yep, just for food on the table.

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Speaker 1: And and my dad, you know kind of really I

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Speaker 1: grew up, you know, at a young age being out

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Speaker 1: with my dad, but we never really bear hunted much.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I just kind of went through the motions

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Speaker 1: through you know, junior high in high school, going out

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Speaker 1: deer hunting, hil hunting, and I just always thought, man,

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Speaker 1: it'd be really cool to get a bear one day.

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Speaker 1: Well at that time time, you know, and the early

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Speaker 1: nineties in southwest Montana, at least, I would say bear

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Speaker 1: hunting hadn't really taken on the space that it is

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Speaker 1: now it's a lot more popular. Um So, there was

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Speaker 1: very few people that did it well. And um so

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Speaker 1: it was just kind of an unknown thing. And we're

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Speaker 1: in high school and me and my the guy that

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Speaker 1: I actually co founded this organization with, uh, Joe Cambick. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we always wanted to kill a bear. We all we

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Speaker 1: wanted to figure it out, and we didn't know what

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Speaker 1: we're doing. We could drive now, so we would puts

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Speaker 1: around the hills and in the spring and the sun,

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Speaker 1: you know, early summer, because it ended June fifteenth, where

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Speaker 1: we grew up trying to find bears and didn't have

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Speaker 1: a clue, you know, just hunting bears like we we

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Speaker 1: would all kind of you know, park on a ridge

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Speaker 1: and go and um, yeah, it didn't work, Like I,

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Speaker 1: I can't find We couldn't find bears to save our life.

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Speaker 1: And uh just didn't really know anyone to show us around.

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Speaker 1: And this is a long story short, but we were

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Speaker 1: we were together and he got his first bear, and

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Speaker 1: oh nineties, I can't remember. We were just out of

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Speaker 1: high school and I was just like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: this is amazing. And so it kind of became a quest.

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Speaker 1: He's a little bit older than me, so he got

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Speaker 1: to get first shot. So then it became a quest

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Speaker 1: for me to get one. And we're still pretty new

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Speaker 1: and I finally got one, and in that day ninety seven,

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Speaker 1: maybe I think maybe maybe later gosh, I have to

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Speaker 1: look um that that changed me as far as like

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Speaker 1: actually shot one then never found it. I shot two

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Speaker 1: bears before I and didn't recover him, and it was

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Speaker 1: just devastating to me, you know, like I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to figure this out. And then when I ended up

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Speaker 1: finally harvesting one, it was actually in the in early

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Speaker 1: two thousand, I ended up harvesting one beautiful chocolate bear

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Speaker 1: uh in a place where I grew up in southwest

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Speaker 1: Montana hunting deer and elk, and and it was just

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Speaker 1: a pristine high mountain meadow. Hiked in there, and that

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Speaker 1: thing was just out in the middle chowing down on

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Speaker 1: these white flowers, and it was just like that was

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Speaker 1: meant to be in the color that I always wanted.

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Speaker 1: And from that day on, I just have been fascinated

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Speaker 1: by not hunting them. It's the knowledge of bears that

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Speaker 1: I feel like it has driven me to the point

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Speaker 1: where I'm at now. It's like no one, you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people really don't understand a lot about bears.

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Speaker 1: So I started just diving into it. And and the

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Speaker 1: more I started looking and trying to teach myself about bears, habits, biology,

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Speaker 1: you know, just the total ecology of everything surrounding bears,

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Speaker 1: I kind of was like, man, there's just really not

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Speaker 1: a lot of information out there, aside from other hunters,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of bear hunters are not in this

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Speaker 1: part of the country. I don't know about where you

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Speaker 1: guys are at, but they're not very good at sharing

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Speaker 1: information because their bear spots are like, you know, that's gold,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's sacred. So I thought, man, we kind

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Speaker 1: of would be nice if there was a group out

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Speaker 1: there to help people out that was in my same shoes,

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Speaker 1: not having a clue. And then also there just wasn't

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Speaker 1: a group out there really focused on bears, and we

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Speaker 1: had talked about it for years. Joe and I joke

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Speaker 1: and got it, wouldn't that be cool if there was

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Speaker 1: a bear founded, you know, something for bears and bear

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Speaker 1: hunters out west. Did some research, I'm like, gosh, Michigan's

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Speaker 1: got a strong one, Wisconsin, they're strong West Virginia. And

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Speaker 1: we're like, we could do something like that, but man,

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Speaker 1: I'm a business student and he's a game warden, so

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Speaker 1: we're like, I don't know how to put something like

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Speaker 1: this together. And it just ate away at me. I

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Speaker 1: moved down here in oh five, down into Cody for

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Speaker 1: for work, and it was just still driving me crazy.

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Speaker 1: And then when I moved here, it really it propelled

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Speaker 1: me even further because now I'm on the grizzly bear

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Speaker 1: scene in the right in the middle, and I'm just seeing, man,

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Speaker 1: there's no work done for black bears. Everyone knows if

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Speaker 1: a grizzly bear takes a crap anywhere from the West

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Speaker 1: coast to here, we know, well, we couldn't tell you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the state of Wyoming and Idaho hardly know,

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Speaker 1: um how many bears are in their state. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that's not right for black bears. So let me let

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Speaker 1: me stop you right there. To go back to something

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Speaker 1: you said that ties into that is that people. You

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Speaker 1: made a statement that generally people don't really know that

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Speaker 1: much about bears, and that's true. And you know, the

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Speaker 1: the outdoor media revolution of the last let's say twenty

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Speaker 1: five years since outdoor television came on, people started learning

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Speaker 1: about white tails, learning about elk. I mean, the average

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Speaker 1: white tail hunter can tell you more about the biology

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Speaker 1: and habits of a white tailed deer then probably an

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Speaker 1: expert white tail hunter could have in the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I mean, just an average

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Speaker 1: guy like my ten year old son probably knows more

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Speaker 1: like head knowledge about white tail deer than an expert

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Speaker 1: hunter in the in the nineties. I mean, just like information,

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Speaker 1: we have so much more information. And that's exactly what

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Speaker 1: I found and was the reason that we did what

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Speaker 1: we did was I was in Arkansas and it was

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Speaker 1: like nobody cared about bears, nobody knew about bears, and

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Speaker 1: they were it was and it was exactly it was.

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Speaker 1: It's funny to hear you tell your story because it's

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Speaker 1: just like mine. I was just like I killed the bear,

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Speaker 1: massively intrigued by it. And Joe when I the first

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Speaker 1: bear I killed was in two thousand one, and and

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Speaker 1: I've been a white tail hunter, and when I walked

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Speaker 1: up to that bear, I realized that I knew nothing

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Speaker 1: about it. It's crazy. I mean, you know, it is

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Speaker 1: magnificent animal, incredible animal, and and I realized that I

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Speaker 1: knew nothing about it, and and that that the hunt

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Speaker 1: to me felt hollow. That's the way I descried. Was

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Speaker 1: twenty one years old, and I was just like this,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't like I did something wrong, but

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Speaker 1: I was like, this isn't right. I need to learn

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Speaker 1: about this animal. And that set me on a quest

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Speaker 1: to learn everything I could about black bear and They're incredibly,

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Speaker 1: incredibly unique animal. The biological strategies they use are crazy,

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Speaker 1: you know, just all this stuff. But anyway, so it's true,

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Speaker 1: I'm overly biased because to me, they're the most fascinating

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Speaker 1: animal on the planet. Bears in general, um there their

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Speaker 1: willingness to adapt to any environment meant I was very

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Speaker 1: similar when I shot that bear. It it had taken

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Speaker 1: me multiple years to finally put my hands on my bear,

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Speaker 1: and I think it was like that whole struggle and

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Speaker 1: not knowing and like slowly learning that was really just like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've shot my first elk. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: that big of a struggle or deer. It's just like, wow,

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Speaker 1: this is a big deal. It is monumental for me,

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Speaker 1: and just like wanting to know so much more and

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Speaker 1: not having information because like there wasn't a lot of

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Speaker 1: that stuff out there, you know, social media and the

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Speaker 1: the hunting television was not like it is today to

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Speaker 1: where you can even learn. And then just like you said,

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Speaker 1: no one cared about bears. I mean until not that

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Speaker 1: long ago in Wyoming. You gotta bear with your oak.

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Speaker 1: You got a bear tag with your oak tag, and

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Speaker 1: they're like kill you know, they didn't have any respect

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Speaker 1: for him. They just thought they were a predator. And

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Speaker 1: to me, that's that's tragic, you know, like we do

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Speaker 1: so much and and and it's right we do so

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Speaker 1: much for ungulates in the West, and we need to,

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Speaker 1: but there's a whole another east to the equation in

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Speaker 1: black bears that just get left out. And that made

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Speaker 1: me sick to my stomach for so many years. And

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Speaker 1: I just thought one day, and I'll never forget the time,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, screw it, I'm doing it. I

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Speaker 1: was just like it ate away at me for so long,

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Speaker 1: thinking I feel like I have to do this just

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Speaker 1: to be like in ten years if it doesn't work out.

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Speaker 1: I tried, you know, like and and just for me personally,

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Speaker 1: like give it a shot. And I was sitting and

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Speaker 1: standing in the shower one day and I was just like,

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Speaker 1: the hell with it, We're doing it. And I called

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Speaker 1: him and tried to come up with the name. At

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Speaker 1: that time where the Yellowstone Country Bear Hunters Association, which

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Speaker 1: didn't really give us much UH arena other than around

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Speaker 1: Yellowstone Park, But at that time we thought that was

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Speaker 1: the right way to go. But you know, fast forward

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Speaker 1: to now or the Western Bear Foundation doing everything we

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Speaker 1: can in the West. So it was a long, a

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Speaker 1: long slog up to that. But I think being like you,

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Speaker 1: being around him and just being fascinated, you find a

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Speaker 1: passion point in life sometimes that you're just like you

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Speaker 1: never knew you were gonna have like five five years

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Speaker 1: be for doing that hunt and shooting that bear. I

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Speaker 1: I never in a million years thought I'd be here

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Speaker 1: today talking to you about a foundation and your your

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Speaker 1: magazine and what you did with the Arkansas Black Bear

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Speaker 1: found It maymes it's beyond me. But sometimes in life

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Speaker 1: things like that happened and I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we got to do something, and it's been incredibly successful.

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Speaker 1: Um slow, and I'm an impatient guy, like I want

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Speaker 1: everything to be like now, and so that's been a

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Speaker 1: struggle for me. We're all volunteers, so that's a struggle

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Speaker 1: to um a lot of work on the volunteers, and

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Speaker 1: you can only grow as fast as your You know,

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Speaker 1: money is a big thing, you know when it comes

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Speaker 1: to these foundations to tell money. So you know we're

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Speaker 1: doing the best we can. But now I know that

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Speaker 1: you have dealt with and asked questions to some of

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Speaker 1: these bigger foundations. I mean like, uh, I mean you've

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Speaker 1: tried to model this. I mean, give me the kind

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Speaker 1: of give me the architecture of the Western Bear Foundation

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Speaker 1: and kind of even just as simple as what your

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Speaker 1: mission is some of the things you're doing. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So we tried to, you know, not knowing anything about

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Speaker 1: running a foundation or an organization and nonprofit, we we

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Speaker 1: had to look at the ones that were successful, and

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Speaker 1: the biggest one to us in the West was Racking

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Speaker 1: Mount Elk Foundation. You look at what they did and

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Speaker 1: similar thing. A bunch of guys got together that are

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Speaker 1: super passionate about Elk and they created something that's a

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Speaker 1: monster now and it's done so much good for for

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Speaker 1: Elk in the country. Um, so we're like, well, let's

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Speaker 1: model it similar to that. You know, we'll be membership

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Speaker 1: driven to raise funds to do projects on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Initially when we started, Joe and I said that in

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Speaker 1: order to ensure that we're doing it for the right reasons.

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Speaker 1: No one's getting paid for this. So for for us

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Speaker 1: that was really important in the beginning because as you

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Speaker 1: and not every groups like this, but when money starts

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Speaker 1: changing hands, people start doing things sometimes for the wrong reasons,

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Speaker 1: and for us, it had to be about the bears

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Speaker 1: and bear hunters. So we always said, you know, no

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Speaker 1: one's gonna get paid for this. Now we're getting to

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Speaker 1: a point where we might have to do something like

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Speaker 1: that and change a little bit. But um, so we

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Speaker 1: tried to do it like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

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Speaker 1: where we had a board and and we don't really

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Speaker 1: have chapters, but we thought, you know, that would be

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Speaker 1: somewhere where we would want to go. And initially we

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Speaker 1: were just going to focus on Montana, Ida and Wyoming,

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Speaker 1: Idaho and Wyoming because that's where a lot of the

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Speaker 1: grizzly bear issues were and um, the largest amount of

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Speaker 1: black bears you know, in the West, in these three states,

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Speaker 1: so we thought we'd stay there. And you know, over

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Speaker 1: the years we've as we went to Western Bear Foundation.

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Speaker 1: Now we're doing work in Our actual first chapter is

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Speaker 1: going to be formed in Washington State. Believe it or not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we got a guy over there and some really passionate

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Speaker 1: hunters over there that want to start a chapter there

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Speaker 1: right and all the by laws right now, So we'll

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Speaker 1: have our first chapter in Washington State. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's just gonna make it a lot easier for us

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Speaker 1: to have a Montana chapter and Idaho chapter because right

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Speaker 1: now I kind of managed the three with people in

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Speaker 1: each state to help me out, like, hey, what can

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Speaker 1: we get to this? Can we do this? And and

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Speaker 1: you know, working closely with the state agencies that manage

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Speaker 1: our bears and manage our hunting seasons. We do a

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Speaker 1: lot of that, but a lot of that falls on

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Speaker 1: me right now. So giving these up in the chapters

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Speaker 1: will will take a lot off of me and make

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Speaker 1: it a little bit easier for me to do some

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Speaker 1: of the administrative stuff that takes up a lot of time,

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Speaker 1: you know. So that's kind of how we're set up now. UM.

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Speaker 1: We do have memberships, UM most of our money raises

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Speaker 1: through like raffles and grants. I'll write grants for for

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Speaker 1: projects on the ground, and that's what we're really probably

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Speaker 1: the most proud about right now, is the grant work

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Speaker 1: and the projects we're doing on the ground. I mean,

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Speaker 1: for being small, this year, we'll do over thirty dollars

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Speaker 1: for projects on the ground and that's all just fundraising.

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Speaker 1: What's one of what we've done in the past a

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Speaker 1: lot of is conflict mitigation, So UM, we do uh

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Speaker 1: in the state of Wyoming, We've done a lot of

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Speaker 1: bear boxes and you'll see him on the National Forest

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Speaker 1: and Wyoming and especially where we have grizzly bear use.

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Speaker 1: We have to have boxes, bear proof storage containers on

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Speaker 1: in campsites. So it keeps bears out of food. It

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Speaker 1: really you know, it mitigates habituation to human foods and

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Speaker 1: then it keeps bears out of trouble. And our model

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Speaker 1: has always been, you know, the more bears we keep

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Speaker 1: on the landscape, that's more for hunters, photographers, just anyone

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Speaker 1: to enjoy. We don't want to see bears getting taken

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Speaker 1: out management actions because they're they're habituated to food or

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Speaker 1: they're causing problems. You know, that's one less for us

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Speaker 1: to enjoy. What's the what's the what's the mission statement

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Speaker 1: of Western Bear Foundation to protect and develop bears and

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Speaker 1: bear hunting in the Western United States. Yeah, and in short,

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Speaker 1: you know, so we've kind of went from being super

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Speaker 1: focused on hunting rights. You know, like initially on we're like,

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Speaker 1: we've got to make sure we have our rights as hunters.

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Speaker 1: And we're still really focused on that, Like we're doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of work, especially in the last year with

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Speaker 1: this bear bait band. But what we've done the most

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Speaker 1: lately is conflict mitigation stuff on the ground to ensure

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Speaker 1: a future for bears in the West and keeping bears

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Speaker 1: out of trouble. Um So we do the bear boxes

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Speaker 1: up in Montana, we've been doing a lot of bear

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Speaker 1: fences on the Rocky Mountain Front. Those fences are electrical,

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Speaker 1: electrified fences that go around chicken coops, um lambing pins,

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Speaker 1: any of that that keeps the grizzly bears out. Um Man,

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Speaker 1: that's a perfect prime example of hunters truly showing their

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Speaker 1: the the intent of why we do what we do.

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Speaker 1: It's not just to go out and kill all the bears.

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Speaker 1: We want animals on the landscape. That's been so important

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Speaker 1: to us to be a hunting group doing these projects

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Speaker 1: because right now in Montana we have a few anti

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Speaker 1: hunting groups funding a lot of these projects. And to

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Speaker 1: us that was there's a hunting group now that can

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Speaker 1: do that. Now, granted we don't have the money that

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Speaker 1: some of these groups. I won't name names, but um

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Speaker 1: we're slowly breaking into that where it's like, hey, we

395
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Speaker 1: can buy the bear proof garbage cans for the Anaconda

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Speaker 1: Township in Montana, they got a lot of bears. Like,

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Speaker 1: maybe we can do that now and rather than be

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Speaker 1: an anti hunting group, now we have a pro sportsman,

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Speaker 1: a pro a hook and bullet clock and these these

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Speaker 1: dumpsters and so much of what we're doing now, Joe,

401
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: inside the outdoor industry, it seems is that we're we

402
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,439
Speaker 1: are doing a better job at showing the intent of

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Speaker 1: conservation based hunting, Like, because the narrative for the anti

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Speaker 1: hunting community is that we're just bloodthirsty guys that want

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Speaker 1: to go shoot stuff with our guns. And so I

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Speaker 1: really like, I like what you're doing because it's it's

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Speaker 1: on the ground, actually doing the work, showing people, showing

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Speaker 1: people that hey, we are, you know, trying to reduce

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Speaker 1: bear conflicts so that these bears don't have to be

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Speaker 1: euthanized when they come into this camp. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: it's exactly like but it's it's it's the it's a

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Speaker 1: philosophical position that I like, you know, it's yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think what we're trying to do too is make it

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Speaker 1: that you know, bear hunters and I don't have to

415
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Speaker 1: tell you this are very much malign. Did in the

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Speaker 1: commune in the United States. When it comes to all

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Speaker 1: hunters in general, I think predator hunters get the worst

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Speaker 1: trapping the side from trappers and they've got a really

419
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Speaker 1: bad rap which we support trapping and everything, but it's

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Speaker 1: an effort to to try and like change the way

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Speaker 1: people look at bear hunters. And if they look at

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Speaker 1: a group like the Western Bear Foundation that's out here

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Speaker 1: and it's like, well, they are a hunting based group,

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Speaker 1: but gosh, this year, we're spending twenty dollars on callers

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Speaker 1: in the state of Wyoming to put on black bears

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Speaker 1: so we can do a population study. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: not been another group that's that's anti hunting or anything

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Speaker 1: that's even approach. The Department said, we want to do this.

429
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: This is a hunting group that's doing it's hunters that

430
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: are doing this, and that's that's to benefit everyone. And

431
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, we might not agree with some anti hunters,

432
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: but we're gonna put more bears out there so you

433
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: can go take pictures or you can just walk around

434
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: and enjoy it. And and that's important to us. You know,

435
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: we gotta managed for while we were just talking with

436
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: Jim Sessions over here and uh. And he was talking

437
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: about and maybe you could add to this about how

438
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: many bears right now? He said, this morning, driving from

439
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: his house, he saw two gaming fish trucks with bear

440
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: traps and they're going to their going to somebody's house

441
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: that has a bear problem. They're gonna catch that bear.

442
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: And there's a certain point when these bears have to

443
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: be put down. And so it's like, so just in

444
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: in theory, we could say maybe that, and you may

445
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: know the exact numbers, but let's just say there's X

446
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 1: number of bears being euthanized by government officials because these

447
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: bears get in trouble. I mean, are are are we saying,

448
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: as sportsman, hey, why don't we have a managed hunt

449
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: eighteen bear quota A female quote? I mean, just something

450
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: so minuscule that it would have Basically, it would have

451
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 1: It would have zero net effect on the population. Truly,

452
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: it's true, but it would. But a hunted population of

453
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: animals acts so much differently, and you tell me they

454
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: act so much differently than an unhunted group of anyway,

455
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: what I guess what we're saying is, hey, let's sportsman,

456
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: take these twenty bears a year out that have to

457
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: be taken out. It's gonna generate funds. I mean, it's

458
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: all these positive things that to manage the resource and

459
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: and and it's been it's been a really crazy five

460
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: or six years with this grizzly bear deal, because we

461
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: went from having him d listed and I think it

462
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: was oh nine and they got the court ruling put

463
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: them back on the list. The the give it give us.

464
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 1: Just for somebody that knows nothing of this, and some

465
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 1: people back east that listen to this podcast don't. So

466
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: the grizzly bear and the lower forty eight in the

467
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: United States was on the endangered species list. If it's

468
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: on the endangered species list, it cannot be hunt it.

469
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: There's there's qualifications for what an animal, biological qualifications that

470
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, indicate whether an animals should be on that list.

471
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: When it when those qualifications, I mean like when a

472
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: certain number or recovery quote unquote is a dablished, then

473
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: that animal can be taken off of the endangered species list.

474
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: All endangered species are managed by the federal government, that's correct,

475
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: but when they're off the endangered species list, they could

476
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: be managed at a state level, which is essentially what

477
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: would happen is if the grizzly bear in the lower

478
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: forty eight were taken off the endangered species list, they

479
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: could be managed by Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and these states

480
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 1: managed through hunting basically, and so then these bears could

481
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: be hunted. That's the that's like the super condensed version

482
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: for somebody that knows nothing about this. Yeah, and it's

483
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: what we've really tried to shoot for is state management,

484
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: right because the people that have recovered the bear are

485
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: primarily state agency people. They're the biologists, and Wyoming was

486
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: tasked with managing their bears under the federal government. We

487
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: receive a very small amount of money, but up towards

488
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: to the tune of forty million that was spent on

489
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: ott of Wyoming's budget to manage these things. We we

490
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: spent the majority of the money to bring the bears

491
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: back from the brink. We've we've bought what we've got

492
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: one of the best staffs as far as conflict mitigation.

493
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: We've got a recovery team. We've got guys out there

494
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: every day that are doing grizzly bear stuff, and so

495
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: does Montana and so does Idaho. So we funded this

496
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: recovery and now the time comes to delist them and

497
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: put him into state control. And we're like, let's let

498
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: the people that know this bear the most manages bear

499
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: sustainable population. And you know, just this recent ruling by

500
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: Judge Christensen to basically he said you cannot delist a

501
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: distinct population, which we tried to delist while we being

502
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: the the Inner Agency Grizzly Bear Committee, who was super

503
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: oversees the recovery of the grizzly bear, they tried to

504
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: delist just a greater Yellowstone bear, not the Bob Marshall,

505
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: not the Northern Continental Divide ecosystem, and not the set

506
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: of that's up in Montana. So we have we have

507
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: several distinct Greater yone ecosystem would include Wyoming, parts of

508
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: southwest Montana, and parts of southeast Idaho, correct yep. And

509
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: so they tried to just delist that, and that the

510
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: judge says, amongst a few other things, he said, you

511
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: can't do that because we don't know what effect that's

512
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: going to have on the other populations. And they said, well,

513
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: they proved everything basically in their paper that said there

514
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: is no issue with genetic diversity, and and there it's

515
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a scientific thing, and he had

516
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: a couple of other things saying that you're not using

517
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: the most available science to count these things. And so

518
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: back now we're back on the list, and the states

519
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: are funding this recovery continually. Why sportsmen are paying for

520
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: that through tax dollars, through licensed dollars. But yet we

521
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: everyone else gets to enjoy the bear. You know, you

522
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 1: get to take pictures of it, sell those photos. We

523
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: can't kills which we've killed, We killed double what the

524
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: quota was gonna be, just in Manna him in actions. See, Okay,

525
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: that's that's what I want to talk about. I mean,

526
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: that's the point I was making earlier, is that, so

527
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: how many we're killing forty bears? Are you? It was

528
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: it was an they're they're uthanizing. We're paying government people

529
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: to go out and trap these bears, prouble bears, and

530
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure they're doing the absolute best they

531
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: can to not uthanize them. So I'm not saying there,

532
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: but those animals could have been I mean, a it

533
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't be those specific animals, but basically hunters would go

534
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: into wherever they can hunt kill bears. They would open

535
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: up more space for these bears that are getting in

536
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: trouble because they're leaving habitat going into more fringe habitat

537
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: coming into the city. And so it's like, if you

538
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: take out some of the bears in the core area,

539
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: it's gonna make room for these bears that are now

540
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: in the fringe. Is what what Jim told us is

541
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: he said, he said, we're seeing grizzly bears here in

542
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: habitat that they haven't been And I mean, so it's

543
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: like the core population of bears is spanding quite rapidly.

544
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: They and then and a great analogy that I heard

545
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: him saying many many times is the bucket is full.

546
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: We can only house so many grizzly bears in Yellowstone

547
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: Park and the surrounding area. And now as we're looking,

548
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: you know, as feed as ungulates is what they eat,

549
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: moves out of Yellowstone, so do the predators. And now

550
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: we have so many bears residing outside the park because

551
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: there's better habitat for them. Um, now we're starting to

552
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: see this um bucket of full buckets, full mentality. And

553
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: when the buckets full, they gotta move because you know,

554
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: dominant boars aren't gonna live in the same range you know,

555
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: they're gonna either kill each other. You know, a young

556
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: boars got to move out. Steak has claimed somewhere new.

557
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: And we see that with Salsing cubs moving out, you know,

558
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: because boars will kill cups and so they're like, hey,

559
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: we're out of here. There's a dominant boar running around.

560
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna get on the I mean we get them

561
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: right here, right outside of town. I mean there was

562
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: a could you take us, I'm not saying that we

563
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: would do this. Could you take us this afternoon? Yes,

564
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: for drive up the Northfark, I would guarantee with one

565
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's great. I love seeing them, but

566
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: like we also have to manage that resource, just like

567
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: we manage everything else. The federal government gets it, us

568
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Services on our side. A lot of

569
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: people think they're not they wanted them to list it

570
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: and we are not a group. And we get a

571
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: lot of flak for this because we have been pro

572
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: de list for a long time. But we listen to

573
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: the people that know what they're talking about. And when

574
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: the Wilming gaming fish in the Montana Fish, Wildlife and

575
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: Parks and Idaho departments say we're good. I mean, like,

576
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: we can hunt a few of these bears. We have

577
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: to listen to them because we're not scientists. They're the

578
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: ones tasked with recovering it. And what we want to

579
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: see as an organization, is this a sustainable population for

580
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: thirty years down the road. We have grizzly bears out

581
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: here in the West, a rugged wild place that people

582
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: can come see grizzly bears, but we can also you know,

583
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: we can have a little bit of both people who

584
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: go hunt them and there's a small quota and we're

585
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: shooting a few bears, but we're also managing for sustainability

586
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: and what all the hunting seasons that the states put

587
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: into place, because we had to have hunting seasons, we

588
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: had to have it all documented, and we actually had

589
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: draws and everything. Wyoming, we had draws and people drew tags.

590
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: People drew tags. They never got drew tags. It basically

591
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: the low they said they could have went over that quota,

592
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: but they really really low and they said, you know,

593
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: if we get to a level where too many bears

594
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: have died throughout the year and we don't have enough

595
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: in our threshold, we won't have a season. I'm like,

596
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,479
Speaker 1: what a better check and balance. We're good, you know,

597
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: we're not gonna over harvest this thing down to levels

598
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 1: that it was when it got put on the endangered

599
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: species list. So the states were really good about it.

600
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: I thought it was a win win um. But here

601
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: we are today with no So what what happened was

602
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: that the grizzly wear was delisted and this has actually

603
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: happened multiple times. It was officially de listed, and then

604
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: anti hunting groups sued the federal government. Uh. He was

605
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: fishing Wildlife Service. Uh. And so then it went to

606
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: a judge in Missoula, and Judge Christensen ruled in favor

607
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: of them. Let me ask you something about that, and

608
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: maybe you can say something. Maybe you can't. Do you

609
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: feel like this guy was Was it a just decision?

610
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: To me? No, And I'm I'm maybe a little biased.

611
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: The guy had the lawsuit on his desk for months. Months.

612
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: We got to this deadline where the seasons were gonna

613
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: open in Wyoming. I think it was August fifteen. These

614
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,719
Speaker 1: first guys are gonna go out and hunt him. He

615
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: didn't even like see. The trial didn't even happen in

616
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: Missoula until like that week. And then he said, I

617
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: need more time. So it was they filed an injunction

618
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: to stop the hunt for two weeks. So they filed

619
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: in junction. Said yeah, so it stopped the hunt for

620
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: two weeks, and then it took like two more weeks

621
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: former rule and you finally said no. So now the

622
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: US Fish and Wildlife Services appealing that in district court,

623
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: which the district court that it's in I heard is

624
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: not very favorable for us. So I think what we're

625
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: in now is the same situation with well, you know,

626
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: we're in litigation, which unfortunately, wildlife should never be managed

627
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: in a court of I saw a statistic the other day,

628
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: and to be honest with you, I can't save is

629
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: with wolves or with grizzlies. But it was a statistic

630
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: that told the gazillions of dollars that the US government

631
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: has paid in litigation fees fighting these anti hunting grounds.

632
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: I mean, all it takes is for somebody to follow

633
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: lawsuit and to have big money, which they do, they do,

634
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: and they can they can tie this thing up in

635
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: court for that's the end game for them decades for

636
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: or maybe forever. And plus they have that equal active justice,

637
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: which I'm sure you're familiar with where the groups if

638
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: they sue and win, they recoup percentage of their attorney

639
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: fees from the federal government. So that it's a we

640
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 1: need to repeal, we need to get that out of there.

641
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 1: But it just seems it just seems so unjust. I mean,

642
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,479
Speaker 1: even even if you if you were to just pull

643
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: out of this planet and go somewhere else where, there

644
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 1: was a fair and equal judgment system for human morals

645
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: and ethics, and we're to present this case, it would

646
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: be it's crazy. It's and you know, a big thing

647
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: that we've always said that these these organizations stay relevant

648
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: with their population base, that their constituency by lawsuits. That's

649
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: how they stay relevant. Because if they're not fighting this,

650
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: they can't raise money. That's how they raise money. Is there, Well,

651
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: grizzly bears are a hot point. Let's sue get rid

652
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: of we get that taken care of. Its almost They

653
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: really don't even they don't care about the animal. Otherwise

654
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: they'd be out here with us putting collars on bears

655
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, they'd be putting fences up. They

656
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: don't care, you know, and we're the ones with no

657
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 1: money trying to do all this stuff. And that's what's

658
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: always been frustrating to us, is when it comes time

659
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: to come to the table and do something for bears,

660
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: no one's to be found. But when it comes time

661
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: to hunting, it's like everyone in the world has got

662
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: an opinion and none of them are doing anything other

663
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: than suing. And it's just a publicity stunt for them,

664
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: because you know, it's grizzly bears. And when it's not

665
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: grizzly bears, now it's bear baiting. And it's kind of

666
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: incredibly easy sell to someone that has no context for

667
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: conservation based hunting of North America, which is the and

668
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: I mean every time I open my mouth I say this,

669
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, the reason we have big

670
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: game is because of hunters. I mean we all know that,

671
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: but but I still don't think people really understand that.

672
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: Well even hunters don't understand that, but non hunters not

673
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: at all. No, I mean, it's such an easy sell.

674
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: It's such an easy sell to put up a billboard here. Well,

675
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: I know, I've seen I've seen your social media post.

676
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: I drive by twice a day. It's just uh and

677
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: and you know a lot of it boils down to

678
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: like the as hunters were a consumptive user, and we

679
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: pay for the resource, and and part of that money

680
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 1: is back to wildlife management, whether it's to ensure hunting

681
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: seasons or just to do some habitat work on on

682
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: the landscape too, for better LK habitat, you know. But

683
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: that's all consumptive money. That's money that hunters are spending.

684
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: And we got the anti hunters that basically don't pay

685
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: a dime to manage to bring these populations to where

686
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: everyone can enjoy. And as hunters, we're supposed to feel

687
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: guilty about hunting. It's like we're the ones that are

688
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: bringing this resource back, we're managing it and and as

689
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: hunters we have to always defend ourselves. You know, I

690
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: want to stop you right there. A lot of people

691
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: would know this, uh, A lot of hunters that are

692
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: kind of in the know, especially if they listen to

693
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: the Meteor podcast, they would know what what we're saying

694
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,919
Speaker 1: when we say that hunters are paying for conservation. I've

695
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: meant reference to me your podcast just because they they've

696
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: done some in depth podcasts about the funding for conservation whatnot.

697
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 1: But what we're talking about is the Robertson Pittman Act,

698
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: which is an excise tax on hunting gear, firearms, and ammunition.

699
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: So basically in the nineteen forties under Roosevelt's or somebody, Um,

700
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: yeah it was, it was it was uh Franklin uh fdr. Yeah,

701
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: that's what he's the one that signed it in I believe.

702
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: And basically they said, we're gonna a tax more on hunting,

703
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing gear and uh and ammunition, firearms. That

704
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: money is gonna go into a big fund and the

705
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: federal government that's gonna be distributed to the states for

706
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 1: wildlife conservation, for buying land, for I mean, all this stuff.

707
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: So that's what we mean when we say now I

708
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: think it's a people have got to know that. I mean,

709
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: like the guys, the guys in the I mean, I

710
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: bet if I pulled the average Arkansas hunter that has

711
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: a hunting license, not a guy that's really into it,

712
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: just a guy that bought a tag maybe gonna go shoot,

713
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: he doesn't know that. He can't tell somebody that. No.

714
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: So we have a lot of friends that are international

715
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: that that have no context for hunting, but they know

716
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: our family and they know that I make a living

717
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: in the hunting industry, and I've had very good conversations

718
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: with the people, and that's one of the first things

719
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: I bring up is that we have paid for wildlife conservation,

720
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: and boy, that rings a bell with people. So you

721
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: guys are the only ones that you know basically basically

722
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 1: you know when you look at and Rynella has talked

723
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: about it. You know, the big mounds of buffalo skulls

724
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: back east, you know, in the bone yards, and and

725
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: there was no wildlife on this landscape in the early

726
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds. And now we've hit epic uh populations of

727
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: deer and elk, you know, and deer always in the west,

728
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: mule deer. We have more bears now than we ever

729
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:00,959
Speaker 1: have in continental wide black bear in this region, bears.

730
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: And that's all through management and and hunting dollars. And

731
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 1: we've we've managed to bring all these animals to record

732
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: levels of populations, all while hunting them, all while hunting

733
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: them so nothing if we take out hunting, there might

734
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: be a few more, but we know the consequences of that,

735
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: you know, disease and just it's wherever an animal has value.

736
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: And this is an old drum that we beat because

737
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: it's true. Wherever an animal has cultural value, it will

738
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: be protected. It'll succeed and and it gains cultural value

739
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: and has for us, and it has worked through hunting.

740
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: You know, we will value it. We want to be

741
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: able to partake of the resource, so we protect it

742
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: and just take a small little sliver the population back

743
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: so that we can have bear rugs and bear steaks.

744
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: One of the biggest things that we've We've said for

745
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: a long time and I heard this in one of

746
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: a grizzly bear seminar, And you know, public perception is

747
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: probably the biggest point right now when it comes to

748
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: recovery of an animal and the grizzly bear, the public

749
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,959
Speaker 1: reception of the grizzly bears poor. And I I've said

750
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: this for a long time. If you want to create

751
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: advocates for grizzly bears, hunters are the best advocates. But

752
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: we've gotta be able to hunt them. And if you

753
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,919
Speaker 1: let hunters, you'll start getting guys that are like, I'm

754
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: the biggest grizzly bear passionate hunter. I'm like that guy,

755
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: just like I was with black you know, just like

756
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: I was a black bears. Pretty soon you're gonna have

757
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: guys out there just like wolves there like all I

758
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: care about grizzly bears. And you can be damn sure

759
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: that guy is gonna make sure that that grizzly bears

760
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: always on that landscape and he's on it. And so

761
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,919
Speaker 1: you got to create those passion points. And we've got

762
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty years of history to prove that

763
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: that's true. Yep, it's not just a guess. No, No,

764
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: it's since the Native Americans run this landscape. You know,

765
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: they hunted them. Yeah, well, and and and specifically what

766
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: I'm talking about is Roosevelt and Grinnell and the guys

767
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: that started the Boone and Crockett Club that introduced fair

768
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: Chase and and and later that rolled into wildlife management,

769
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: the North American model of conservation. They did that because

770
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: they hunted them. They didn't they didn't do that because

771
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: they like to take photos. It's true, it's true. You

772
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: take a photo of a bear. I mean, I get it.

773
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: There are people that are truly passionate about bears that

774
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: all they take this photos. But man, if you're a

775
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: bear hunter, you're passionate about bears being there, you are

776
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: you want them there and then, and I think it

777
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: all boils down to one other thing that we have

778
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: a lot of tough trouble with in this state, which

779
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: we're we're on the beginning stages of trying to do

780
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: something about it, is you know, in Wyoming you don't

781
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: have to take the carcass, which to me just makes

782
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: it so much easier to to cause problems when you're

783
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: talking to black bear. Yeah, and so you don't one

784
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: towny you do as you know, um, because you've hunted

785
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: up there. Uh, you've got to take the carcass and everything.

786
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: In Wyoming you can leave the carcass. And so it

787
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: really makes hunters in Wyoming, regardless if you leave it

788
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: or not, black bear hunters look like trophy rug hunters exclusively.

789
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: And so those are archaic laws that are not helping

790
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: the image of hunter is in the general I the

791
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: public's eye that we have to change and there there.

792
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: You know, we're not gonna get that changed done easily,

793
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a lot of hunters that are

794
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: going to disagree with us, but you know, at the

795
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: end of the day, we have to do something that's

796
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 1: going to sustain our ability to hunt bears and if

797
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: we look like a bunch of rugthirsty dudes out there hunting,

798
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 1: that's not good for hunting in general and the sport

799
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: of hunting. And and there's a there's a common misconception

800
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: about bear meat out here in the West. You know,

801
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: I've been I've hunted the East, I've hunted Canada bears

802
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: out there, and that that's priced, you know, the fat

803
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: and everything, and out here it's like, what are you

804
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: gonna do with that? And I'm like, well, I'm gonna

805
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 1: eat it. You know, we butcher all our own stuff.

806
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: And and and it's important to us trying to get

807
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: that message out to other people, like hey, and if

808
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: you don't want to bring it out, and we'll get

809
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: someone that does. But that's something that I think needs

810
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 1: to change out here. And that just lends to that

811
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: hunters being this evil, you know, trophy driven species and

812
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: that and that is our biggest thing. And and for

813
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: what we've been trying to Barning Magazine is to change

814
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: that perception, you know, to to tell a different story,

815
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: to tell a story of of the bear is an

816
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: incredible animal for wildlife related commodities. I mean, there's just

817
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: all these uses that you can have for bear and

818
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: uh and just telling the telling the news story of

819
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: who the bear hunter is. You know when you guys

820
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: have done a great job with that. Since you've got

821
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: that and taken over, you can really see that publication

822
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: is just it's taken huge leaps into that respect of

823
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: not just being grip and grin articles, but you know,

824
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: really explaining what bear hunting is in biology and you know,

825
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: what to do with the meat and all that stuff.

826
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just been so good. And then the

827
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: podcast and the movies that the video, the films that

828
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: you're shooting is all helping that out. And we needed

829
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: that as bear hunters. We needed a group or someone

830
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: that had the ability to put that message out there

831
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: because a lot of times is bear hunters and I've

832
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: seen this, um, bear hunters tend to be a pretty quiet,

833
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: like not very you know, out there group of people

834
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: because I think we're always defending what we do, so

835
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: we tend to just kind of sit in the back

836
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: and like, don't bring it up because it's gonna be

837
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: a problem. And so now to have a group out there,

838
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: like you guys that are just really bringing a positive

839
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: light to bear hunting and you know, One of the

840
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: things that I that is that is important to me

841
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: is that, you know, the reason that bears are the

842
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 1: low hanging fruit for the anti hunting community and even

843
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: misunderstood people that hunters that misunderstand bear hunting is because

844
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: of some of the tactics that we have to use

845
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: to manage bears, baiting bears and running hounds, those two things.

846
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: And and this is a sad This is a sad

847
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: thing to me is I think there's a lot of

848
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: hunters today that don't understand the macro picture of the

849
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: goals the anti hunting community that would say we should

850
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: just give that to them. They would say, it's not

851
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: important to me. It's such a small little fraction of

852
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: our hunting, you know, and it's kind of you know,

853
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: there's not well, there are plenty of other animals that

854
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: we bait that it's totally ethical, totally Oh, everybody in

855
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: Arkansas bait white tail. People don't know how to quit

856
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: learn like we quit deer hunting whitetail. We we quit

857
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 1: being hunters about twenty years ago when Walmart started selling

858
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: corn in Arkansas. I'm I'm joking about myself, but I

859
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: mean it's true. But point being debat a bear just

860
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: seems so to someone that doesn't understand. They misperceive how

861
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: that it's uh, the difficulty of it. They think it's easy.

862
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: They misperceived the motivation, they misperceived the amount of work,

863
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: they misperceived all this crazy stuff about it. But one

864
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: thing that I am intently harping on is that the

865
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,479
Speaker 1: methodology that we use that our game agencies who want

866
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: animals to thrive have prescribed in the different regions of

867
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: the country to hunt bears are there for a purpose,

868
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: for conservation based reasons. In Arkansas, if all we had

869
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: was spot and stock hunting, there would be twenty five

870
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: bears killed in the state of Arkansas every year. The

871
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: bears would I mean, we would have all kinds of problems.

872
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: We gotta bait bears on private land in Arkansas to

873
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: harvest the bears that we need. You got to manage

874
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: that resource. And those game and fish managers use baiting

875
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: and they use hound hunting as a tool in their

876
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: bucket to manage That's all it is. That it's not

877
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: a it's not a way to be like, let's kill

878
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: all these bears. Are like, we're not harvesting enough bears.

879
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: We need to figure out how. And they do it

880
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: in Idaho. They do baiting is loud wyoming in certain

881
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: parts of the state where we don't have grizzly bears,

882
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: and it's a tool and mean and if we got

883
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: rid of it, we'd have a bunch of guys out

884
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: there that don't know nothing about bear hunting spot in

885
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: stock and we'd struggle, you know well. And and what

886
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: I want to say to the wider hunting community is

887
00:46:54,000 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: that the strategy of anti hunting communities is incrementalization. They

888
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: want to chip at us piece by piece. So right

889
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: now they're after baiting hounds all over the country in Maine,

890
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: in different places. All these associations are are geared towards

891
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: defending bear associations Michigan, Wisconsin. And if we give that

892
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: to them, then the next thing will be the next

893
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: It's well, and then eventually, when my son is thirty

894
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: five years old, they'll be after him for bo hunt.

895
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like we can't. We we've got

896
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: nothing left to give the anti hunting community and we

897
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: need the wider We need anybody who cares about hunting

898
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: in our way of life in North America needs to

899
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: help us defend baiting in houns. That's that's what I

900
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: want to say to people. Ultimately, you hit it on

901
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: the head because if we give up one thing, one thing,

902
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: I don't care what it is, we're gonna lose it all.

903
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: And we've stressed it so much. In the bear hunting community,

904
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: there's decisive there. There's people that are divided, and we

905
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: get spot inst guys that will trash on bait guys

906
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: because they don't spot in stock hunting. They bait and

907
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: not supposed to be easy. And we get bait guys

908
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: mount At, matt At, Houndsman and Idaho because they're rigging

909
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: off of their baits. I'm like, guys, we are all

910
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: bear hunters at the end of the day, and they

911
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: are like loving this because we're divided in our own

912
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: ranks and we can't be that way. And and we've

913
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: always said we'll support any hunting organization. We do a

914
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: lot with non hunting organizations. We do anything we can

915
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: because we know that we're gonna need people to come

916
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: to bat for us one day as bear hunters, and

917
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: and you know we support any you know, Rocky Mountainel

918
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 1: called us said we need to do something with this

919
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: or the sheep Wild Sheep said, you know, we're all

920
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: about wildlife, and it's like we need that approach to bears,

921
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: Like all hunters need to look at it and say,

922
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: I don't hunt bears, but the antis are attacking that,

923
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 1: and if we lose that then it's just gonna spiral.

924
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: Then I think that's the direction we're headed, Joe as

925
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: a as a community. You know, just in the last

926
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: ten years, we've really had social media. Just in the

927
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: last really five years, podcasts have come up. In Podcasts

928
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: are such an effective way to communicate, even probably more

929
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: than the written word, because people can excess that, people

930
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: can hear. But I feel like we're building to this

931
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: point where the let's just say, well, let's just say

932
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,959
Speaker 1: bears in general, but specifically I'm talking about black bears

933
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: because where we can hunt them, we're adding value to

934
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: black bear hunting. On a national level, We're adding value

935
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: to black bears. People are starting to pay attention. People

936
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: are starting to go on massive adventures like we've been

937
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: on out West to go on to do it yourself

938
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: spot and stock hunt. Guys in Arkansas and Oklahoma are

939
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: becoming like serious bear hunters, like all of a sudden,

940
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,439
Speaker 1: the street cred the bear is elevating. People are gonna

941
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: start caring about it more, and then we're gonna have

942
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: more of this influx of Wow. We got to defend

943
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: this if we love it, just like they did with sheep,

944
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: just like they did without Now for those, for those

945
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: their problems where they didn't have them, they didn't to

946
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: have the habitat. Our problem is not habitat. Whatever's happening

947
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: in North America ecologically has been extremely beneficial to black

948
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: in Iowa. Now, I mean habits that I don't think.

949
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: So it's like we've got this ripe resource and we

950
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: need people to step up to bath And I mean

951
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 1: we my hat right here, Joseph's bear hunter. I mean

952
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: we're trying to build this thing of an identity a

953
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: bear hunter. We need that I'm a bear hunter. We

954
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: and it. Basically, what you're saying is we need to

955
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: create advocates. We need hunter advocates out there, and there

956
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: hasn't been a lot for bear hunting. As bear hunting

957
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: gets more popular, it's a double edged sword. As bear

958
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: hunting becomes more popular, you've got guys that don't like

959
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: it because now all of a sudden, I have the

960
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: same drainage I would I would bear hunt in but

961
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: at the same token, we now have more people that

962
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: will fight to fight for us, and we need to

963
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 1: and we're still so far behind what a lot of

964
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: these groups are. We got to keep building that out.

965
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: And that's why it's so important to create advocates for

966
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: hunting bears. And like I said, bear huntings popularity is

967
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: exploded and and we're kind of on the front of

968
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: that right now, and we were like, we need to

969
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: build that out because the more people that buy bear

970
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,439
Speaker 1: tags are advocates for bear hunting, you know, and that's

971
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: what we need. That's our defense mechanism, right It really

972
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: doesn't and you know, talking to you, it's like this

973
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: idea has grown as even as we're talking. But it

974
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: almost doesn't make sense that the icon of North American

975
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: wilderness the bear has not been elevated to this high

976
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: position of cultural significance in the hunting community, because the

977
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: same thing that you experienced here is what I experienced

978
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: in Arkansas, that we had a world class resource and

979
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: people just didn't really care about it. But that's changing

980
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: and it and it changes when people like us step

981
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: up and say, wait a minute, this is awesome that

982
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: the foundations of our North American hunting culture were built

983
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: on bear hunter. I mean, you know, I used that

984
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: phrase a lot, and and I didn't make it up.

985
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: I've read it somewhere. Bears the icon of North American wilderness,

986
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: like in in so many of our the patriarchs of

987
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: the North American hunting that we know identified themselves as

988
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 1: bear hunters. And specifically I'm talking about Teddy Roosevelt and

989
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone among many others. I mean, they identified themselves

990
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: as bear hunters. You know, Boone, I think killed and

991
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: fifty five bears one winner. And you were a bad

992
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: dude if you bear hunted back in Yes, you were

993
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: a man's man, that's right. I see pictures of you know, uh,

994
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 1: Roosevelt and Buffalo Bill Cody at their hunting lodge up

995
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 1: here at Pahaska from the old days, you know, black

996
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: and white pictures and they got cheap and eak and

997
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 1: stuff and two bears and like that. It's been going

998
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: on forever, you know, the in Arkansas. I read some

999
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: literature one time, and one author said that it was

1000
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: a status symbol back in the eighteen hundreds to have

1001
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 1: a big bear drying on your barn. I mean it

1002
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: was like it was like man that and it was

1003
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 1: was deeper than just you know, like Ego, he killed

1004
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: a big bear. But if you killed the big bear

1005
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: back in eighteen thirty seven, man, you had enough lard

1006
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: for the winter, You had enough meat for the wind,

1007
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: had a heck of a rug that you could either

1008
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: sell or keep. Like it was a status symbol. It was.

1009
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: It was like having a Porsche park in front of

1010
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 1: your house, you know. But that's that's the And I

1011
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: think what I've kind of discovered, and I think it's

1012
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: kind of it's maybe interesting that I'm from Arkansas, a

1013
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:35,280
Speaker 1: place that people hit nationally wouldn't know as a bear state.

1014
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: But it's kind of cool because Arkansas was once start

1015
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: in the as the bear state. But more importantly than that,

1016
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: from what we're trying to do from a media perspective, is,

1017
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, we just came back from Montana and had

1018
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: an incredible world class do it yourself adventure in the

1019
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: back country of Montana and killed the nice bear. And like,

1020
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: this is like a totally new experience for me, even

1021
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: in I mean, I've done it several times now, but

1022
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: if you look at my whole life, I did not

1023
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: grow up doing that kind of hunt. And so it's

1024
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: like it's it's the bear encompasses such a massive range,

1025
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: all these different methods of hunting, and it's almost like

1026
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, a guy just coming out

1027
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: here and just discovering this incredible world. And that's yeah.

1028
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: And you know what's funny to me as we talk

1029
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: about all the opportunities for bear hunters in North America

1030
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 1: down to Mexico, there's bears, I mean the black bears

1031
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 1: in Old Mexico. Yep. We I look at a group

1032
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,720
Speaker 1: like the Wild Cheap Foundation, how successful they are. They've

1033
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: built that organization with hunters that may never hunt a

1034
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: wild cheap. They spend most of their money on wild

1035
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: They spend a lot of money going to wild Cheap,

1036
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: which Wild Cheap are very Um, how do I want

1037
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 1: to say this? Uh, they're susceptible to disease, are fragile species,

1038
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: and we got to do a lot to protect them.

1039
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: And I don't discredit what they're doing. They've done an

1040
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: amazing job and I hope one day I can. But

1041
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: people will spend erroneous amounts of money. I shouldn't say erroneous.

1042
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: They'll spend a lot of money. I'm gonna get in

1043
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: trouble here. They'll spend a lot of money for a

1044
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: foundation for sheep, and it's a species they may never

1045
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: get a hunt in their life. Meanwhile, we have bears

1046
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: that you can buy tags for over the counter, and people,

1047
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: I think take that for granted. I think if bears

1048
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 1: were so obscure and so limited an opportunity, we would

1049
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: maybe be in a different conversation right now. We would

1050
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: be talking about something like the wild sheep does and

1051
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: they're like, we have a bunch of people that really

1052
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: want to hunt sheep, so they're going to spend the

1053
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: money to ensure that there's a future for sheep. We

1054
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 1: don't have a problem for the future of bears really,

1055
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: so people take for granted, like if we didn't have

1056
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: a lot of really good maybe people would be a

1057
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 1: little bit more in tune with bear hunting and bears

1058
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: and be like, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna do whatever

1059
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: it takes to make sure what you're describing is the

1060
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,479
Speaker 1: good old days of bear hunting. I mean, let's flip

1061
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: the equation and all of a sudden, the bear becomes

1062
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: the desirable game species for people to hunt, advocate for,

1063
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: and care about. Well, guess what, there's enormous amounts of

1064
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: opportunity in the direction you drive. So it's like we're

1065
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 1: in the glory years. I mean, you take it back

1066
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 1: to your analogy of the sheep. Imagine if you could

1067
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 1: buy over the counter sheep tag ins wouldn't be you

1068
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: know they would it wouldn't be they weren't naturally in

1069
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: that many but but it wouldn't be that big of

1070
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: a deal. You know that the Wild Sheep Foundation as

1071
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 1: a foundation wouldn't probably be as successful as they are.

1072
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: And and it's it's it's funny to me. That's like

1073
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: when you have a species that's so readily available that

1074
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: you have such a tough time advocating for it and

1075
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: a tough time getting people to be passionate about it.

1076
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: But you take a species that you may never hunt

1077
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: in your life and you're the biggest fan of that

1078
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: because you may never get to do it, you really

1079
00:56:56,120 --> 00:57:00,760
Speaker 1: want to one day. It's crazy. Yeah, it is. Well,

1080
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: that's incredible stuff. Incredible stuff. Um, hey, tell us a

1081
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: bear story. Uh what what like have you you've encountered

1082
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: grizzlies obviously, I mean, like, what's it I've you know,

1083
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: hunt in Montana where we were at. There was certainly

1084
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: possibilities to you because there's there's surely some grizzly bears

1085
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: in that country where you guess, I mean we were.

1086
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: We were prepared. We had bear spray and good pistols.

1087
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: I mean, like we were totally prepared to be in

1088
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: like real bear country. But there's just not that many

1089
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: up there right where we were. We talked to people

1090
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: and they're like, you know, there's the odd grizz that

1091
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: comes through here, but it's certainly not like here, like

1092
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: we were hunting black bears here. I mean, you'd be

1093
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: in it's like over here if I go hunting, you know,

1094
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: spotting stock hunting, because we can't bait over here where

1095
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: the grizzlies are, so we spawned stock hunt over here.

1096
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: And I mean it's literally like if I go out,

1097
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: I might for every six grizz maybe see one black bear.

1098
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's it's black bears don't want to

1099
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: be where the grids are. Yeah, And that's a big

1100
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: concern of ours has been like what is this population

1101
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: of grizzly bears done to our black bear population. You know,

1102
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: you put an apex predator on the landscape that they're

1103
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: fighting for the same food sources of black Beard, who's

1104
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: obviously not the same size and not as aggressive in nature.

1105
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: How well are they doing, you know? And so that's

1106
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: something that we've talked to. I've I've i've I've asked

1107
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: the department a lot about and there's just not a

1108
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: lot of information yet. So hopefully maybe they can't imagine

1109
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: that they're winning. And there's a lot of black bears

1110
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: over here, but you tend to see them move around

1111
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: more in the daytime. Why the grizzly bears are moving

1112
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: more in the morning and at night. So and I

1113
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: think you have to change your tactics. But you know,

1114
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: the grizzly bears around here. I don't have as many

1115
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: stories while black bear hunting as I do just deer

1116
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: and elk hunting, and just some fascinating encounters as far

1117
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: as you know, like having to have guns drawn on

1118
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: bears and so close and and and I've been lucky

1119
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: enough not to have one charge me. Um. I've had

1120
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 1: him next to my tent in that country for hunting,

1121
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: and you can hear them breathe and they're trying to

1122
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: get your dear meat out of your cash, you know.

1123
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: And um, you know, there's a lot of stories of

1124
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: guys losing their animals to to grizzly bears, you know,

1125
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: after the kill, and then I've been lucky. It's never

1126
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: happened to me. But I know if I spend enough

1127
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: time over there, and it will, you know. And I've

1128
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: seen him up close, really close. And you know, I

1129
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: walk in in the dark, and I hunt on foot

1130
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, and so it's just a matter

1131
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 1: of time. But you've got to be super vigilant. I mean,

1132
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: like spray on your chest. I carry a gun underneath

1133
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: my binal harness and then I carry my bear spray

1134
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: on my hip on my pack belt. So I always

1135
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: have to and I've never known, you know, I've actually

1136
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: had more scary encounters with black bears than I have

1137
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: grizzly bears. But I've seen tons of grizzly bears, but

1138
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 1: most of them I've seen it as at a distance

1139
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: or I've seen him to where I'm like I have

1140
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: time like last year, we were deer hunting, and uh,

1141
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: we were in an area we'd shot a deer the

1142
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: week before. So okay, automatically, that's like that carcass is

1143
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: like gonna probably have a bear by there. And we've

1144
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: seen bears in that drainage a bunch. We knew an

1145
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: outfit or had been hunting the other drainage right next

1146
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: to it and shot some deer the day before. And

1147
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: so we were walking up and there comes why to

1148
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: go and which drainage and we picked the one on

1149
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: the right where the outfit had been and seeing a

1150
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 1: bunch of crows and stuff, and we wanted to push

1151
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: farther back in there. And it was just kind of like,

1152
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: all right, let's think about this. There's two carcasses at

1153
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: least up there from deer, and this is the prime

1154
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: time for grizzlies to be out, you know, scavenging these carcasses.

1155
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: Let's just be smart and turn around, you know. So

1156
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: you have to manage manage the risk versus reward a lot,

1157
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: I think in this country, you know, and like be

1158
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: be smart. But you know, um, they're there and they're

1159
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: they're they're just aggressive and they're not afraid of people,

1160
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: which is is a problem. I mean that they they

1161
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: don't run like most black bears. Would um when you

1162
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: see him. And I've seen little ones do it, but

1163
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: I've seen big ones to stare you down and just

1164
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: walk like, just keep doing. You're in my world and

1165
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: you better know that. Let me ask you a question,

1166
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: what does Joe Condella's pool when he sees a charging bear?

1167
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: That's that's a great question. I've asked myself a billion times.

1168
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: I wish I could do both with my rifle three handed.

1169
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: I've asked myself so many times. You go through the

1170
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: scenario in your head because I think if you don't,

1171
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: you're being ill prepared. You have to understand what's going

1172
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: to happen and what could happen, and and that's a

1173
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: crazy thing to think about every day when you go

1174
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: out hunting. It's like I could get backed. It does

1175
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: and makes it way more real being out there and

1176
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: knowing that, like at any minute, you could come around

1177
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: a corner in your head lamp and there'll be a

1178
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: sow with two cubs on that same trail and you're done.

1179
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: And most attacks happened under five seconds, So that's what

1180
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: you got, and you got to make that decision in

1181
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: your head, and there's no way to prepare for that.

1182
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: So I think going over the scenario in your head

1183
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: and in my mind, I've always I carry bear spray

1184
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: because they've proven it's they say it's successful in mitigating conflict.

1185
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: But like to me, it just seems like I'm grabbing

1186
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: my pistol. Now is that the right thing to do?

1187
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: And I don't know. You know, bear spray becomes ineffective

1188
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: in the cold, wet, really cold, if it's windy. We're

1189
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 1: in Wyoming, it's always windy. I mean, it's always windy

1190
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: out here. So if you gotta gust going sideways and

1191
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 1: you you deploy your bear spray and it just blows

1192
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: or she just gets a you're you're getting it. So

1193
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. For me, like I and my pistol,

1194
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I just think that I'll grab

1195
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: for that. Um. The one time up there, two years ago,

1196
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: we had a bear come up off a carcass and

1197
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: was real curious, didn't charge, but it came up to

1198
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 1: us and I had my rifle down, but I had time.

1199
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, I think, uh, I think

1200
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: I to grab my pistol. But you know what, my

1201
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: my philosophy has been has been carry bear spray and

1202
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: pistol that we did Montana, and if you have time

1203
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: and feel like you can mitigate the situation with a

1204
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: bear spray, obviously you pulled one. So if you're if

1205
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: you're at your camp and you see agree is eighty

1206
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 1: yards away and you're like, oh crap, you know, you

1207
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 1: pull out the bear spray and you're and you're ready.

1208
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: But I feel like, in the heat of the moment,

1209
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: you're grabbing your pistol your life, and if you come

1210
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: around the corner there's a bear, you're grabbing the pistol

1211
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: your life and death. And I think that's what I

1212
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: carry both. I think for that reason. You know, if

1213
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: you see one and you're like, okay, we might have

1214
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 1: a problem here, I'm ready. I got my bear spray off.

1215
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: My gun is a backup. But that the old joke

1216
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: around here is most guys carry both the bear spray

1217
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: to to prevent its charge and then the gun to

1218
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: end your life when you've been mauled and you're gonna die,

1219
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, to ease your suffering. But um, i've been

1220
01:03:58,160 --> 01:03:59,959
Speaker 1: seeing I've been encouraged to see a lot more people

1221
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: that come out because there's a lot of people that

1222
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: will come out here hunting that have no knowledge or

1223
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: they just refused to think it's real. And non residents

1224
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: come out here deer hunting and their galvant and around,

1225
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: no bear spray, no pistol, and they're just like what.

1226
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: And I'm like, dude, you know where you're hunting. Do

1227
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: some research. And so I've been encouraged to see a

1228
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: lot more people. And we've always tell people like, get

1229
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: bear spray, and if you do carry a pistol, know

1230
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: how to use it, because you could carry a pistol

1231
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: all you want. If you can't shoot it, you're not

1232
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: gonna do any good. You just as well throw it

1233
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: at him and hope it hit him square in between

1234
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: the eyes, and then it's just gonna make more mad. So,

1235
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 1: and don't carry a pistol that I carry a tin. Um.

1236
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: I've just been it's a Kimberton Um. I've just been

1237
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 1: more doing a lot of research. Fort is okay, But

1238
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: I think you want something like a tin to for

1239
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: the stopping power. Yeah, And I carry it a lot

1240
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: of times when I'm baiting or if I'm just bear hunting.

1241
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: What what was your hairin situation with a black bear? Well,

1242
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 1: I've had him, um like we outside of Missoula. Uh,

1243
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: years and years ago, we shot a black I shot

1244
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: a black bear and we couldn't find it. So we

1245
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 1: were stalking it, uh, falling the blood trail and it

1246
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: was down in this choked draw and uh, I'll never

1247
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 1: forget this, but I was standing next to my buddy.

1248
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: We were about ten yards apart, and I hit that bear.

1249
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 1: It was it was I was shooting down off of

1250
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 1: this ridge and the bear was walking. I tried to

1251
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 1: hit him right here, and I hit him in the face.

1252
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 1: And so he's walking and he's bleeding all over the place,

1253
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 1: you know. And then he bedded down and we walked

1254
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: right up on that thing and it stood up on

1255
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: its hind legs and it was like gonna come at

1256
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: my buddy, and and he's trained pistol guy, and like

1257
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: he pulled it out. It was just like he couldn't

1258
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: even I mean, like just a black bear, like couldn't

1259
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: even get it to Like bear turned around, wheeled off

1260
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 1: and went round up the hill and we shot it.

1261
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: But it was just like that quick, you know. And

1262
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: so but I've had him climb tree stands and you know,

1263
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: I've I've had him woofing at me out of sow

1264
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: and uh, two cubs of South put the run on me.

1265
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 1: In the in the big hole Southwest Antana spotted this

1266
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 1: bear a long ways off and that's all we could

1267
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: see was that one bear. So we make a run

1268
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: on it and we got in the timber and we're

1269
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 1: sneaking up and I hear, you know, the claws going

1270
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 1: up a tree, and I'm like, oh, I climbed the tree.

1271
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: And I just turned around to my right and she's

1272
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: wolfing at me coming. She stops and I'm like, well,

1273
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: so I figured the cubs had climbed the tree, you know.

1274
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: So we turned around and walked back, and then she

1275
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 1: kind of came back down the hill to make sure

1276
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: we weren't gonna stick around, and we gotta look, and

1277
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: she had two cubs climb up the tree. You know,

1278
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: I've had stuff like that, and I haven't had him,

1279
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, around here, I see all those videos and

1280
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 1: I've hunted Canada where you got those bears that won't

1281
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 1: leave your bait. We don't get that around here, like

1282
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: they won't. They're so nervous around people around here a

1283
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 1: lot of times. But I have had them, you know,

1284
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 1: like when you're in the stand, or if they're pretty

1285
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: pretty good with you, like sniff pretty hard or you know,

1286
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: chomp or wolf. I had a bear do that to

1287
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: me last year, but I think it's I think it

1288
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: was more like, dude, I know you're there, but it's

1289
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 1: still like yeah, yeah, so more like that. And and

1290
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,439
Speaker 1: you know, but I've been very fortunate and knock on wood,

1291
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: I haven't had an issue with the grizzly bear, but gosh,

1292
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: I could tell you fifty million stories of close friends

1293
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: and people around here that have and it happens every year.

1294
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 1: We get guys getting mauled or and it's not just hunters,

1295
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: it's hikers and everything else. And it's just you can

1296
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 1: do everything right that you can think of and it

1297
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: can still happen to you. But we just have so

1298
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: many and it's just it's it's just a chance. You're

1299
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: you're fighting the odds, I mean, anymore. And and it's

1300
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: changed some of my old hunting tactics, like I can't

1301
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: backpack hunt. I love to backpack hunt, I can't backpack

1302
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: hunt ilk in some of these areas because if I

1303
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: get an elk down in a grizzly area, there's a

1304
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 1: good chance I can't get that ilk out by myself,

1305
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 1: you know, five six miles in one trip, so I'm

1306
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 1: gonna have to make multiple trips. And and there's just

1307
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 1: a good chance on that next trip back and I

1308
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: don't have horses, that there's gonna be a bear on

1309
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 1: the on the carcass. So it's like, it's it's crazy

1310
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: to think that one animal can change what you do,

1311
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: but you know, and I never thought it would, but

1312
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: it does, it does, it does, and then they're remarkable

1313
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: to see out in the wild. I had a mountain

1314
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 1: goat permit for the wilderness up here right on the

1315
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 1: edge of Yellowstone Park, and my best friend came down

1316
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 1: and hunted with me, and he's like, he's from Southwest Montown.

1317
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: He's like, I've never seen a grizz in the wild

1318
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: I was like, well, we were hunting behind this thing

1319
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: called the bear Gate. It's a place where they drop

1320
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 1: a lot of the bears that they have to relocate

1321
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 1: because you can bring a culvert trap in there, and

1322
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 1: then the gate closes until July, and then in July

1323
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 1: to September it's open. It's a it's a beautiful bear

1324
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: habitat Big Big Peaks, it's gorgeous right on the park border.

1325
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 1: And I said, well, Bud, you're gonna see some grizzly bears.

1326
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: And I said, if we don't have a close encounter,

1327
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 1: I'll be shocked. We hunted in there for seven days

1328
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: and didn't see one grizzly bear. He's like, dude, I

1329
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: hear all these stories, and I'm like, we were. I

1330
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: don't even know how happy I am and how lucky

1331
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 1: I feel. He's like, I just wanted to see one

1332
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 1: far away. And I was like, well, but we I

1333
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: mean I could, honestly, you could drive up the North

1334
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:09,600
Speaker 1: Fork today and probably see one. Yeah, it's incredible. That

1335
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 1: is incredible. Well, hey, this has been a super good conversation. Yeah,

1336
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 1: any closing thoughts, No, just keep up the good work, man.

1337
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: We need what you're doing out there. And you know,

1338
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: if anyone's hunting in the West and and and we

1339
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: I feeled a lot of calls for guys trying to

1340
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: figure out how to bear hunt, you know, And like

1341
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 1: I said, that's what we're here for. We're not only

1342
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 1: a group out there building fences and and keeping bears

1343
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 1: out of trouble. We're there for the bear hunter. The

1344
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 1: prospective bear hunter that wants to learn or has questions

1345
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 1: and you know, um, that's what we're here for. And

1346
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:42,959
Speaker 1: when you pick up the number you get on our website,

1347
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:45,839
Speaker 1: you call you, you call me, or you email me personally,

1348
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 1: and and so we're really really hands on that way.

1349
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 1: And um, just love to talk. And we've met so

1350
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 1: I met so many people doing this that it's just

1351
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,679
Speaker 1: been it's been truly a pleasure. So and finally get

1352
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: to meet you in person, it's been great. Yeah, yeah,

1353
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: I'm glad it worked out today. And uh, hey, I'm

1354
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,639
Speaker 1: gonna say the exact same thing back to you doing

1355
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: what you're doing. Man, for real, I got a lot

1356
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 1: of respect, thank you for what you guys are doing it.

1357
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,480
Speaker 1: And I think it's really just the beginning. And I

1358
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you see, I just really believe that as

1359
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 1: the the status of the big game animal, the bear

1360
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 1: continues to elevate, that there's gonna be more and more

1361
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 1: emphasis put on conservation and advocacy for bear hunting. And

1362
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 1: you guys are the thing in the West right now.

1363
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 1: We're we're hoping to growing off to where we're really

1364
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,679
Speaker 1: effective and being that voice for bears and bear hunters.

1365
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: In the West where it's like we're the go to

1366
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: and and I think in twenty years you and I

1367
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:41,759
Speaker 1: are going to sit down and just be like thankful

1368
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: we did what we did, even though that a lot

1369
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 1: of it was a struggle. I think we're doing the

1370
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: right thing for future generations and that's important to me.

1371
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 1: Right on. Man, Well, well thanks boys. Great. I didn't

1372
01:10:54,040 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: even introduce to couldn't get a word in I driving planning.

1373
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: Uh now, Kobe, Kobe just keeps me on trackbe anything

1374
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 1: else we need to cover here. I mean, I guess

1375
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 1: the only thing I was thinking about is whenever you're

1376
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:11,760
Speaker 1: thinking about different types of hunting, you just have to

1377
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: look for the challenges that that group does. So, I mean,

1378
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 1: my first bear hunt was last year and it was

1379
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:20,680
Speaker 1: on a baited hunt with an outfitter. Uh And on

1380
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: the last by the way, yeah it was good. Um,

1381
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 1: but on the last day there wasn't uh like, I

1382
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: wasn't on a hunt. So I went and I actually

1383
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: like ran the line with the outfitter and helped baiting. Man,

1384
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 1: I was I was dying out there. It was a

1385
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:37,839
Speaker 1: lot of work. Even though he had a four wheeler

1386
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 1: and could get to him there's a lot of misconceptions

1387
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: about bait hunting, and I don't have to tell you

1388
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 1: because you do a lot of it. And I put

1389
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:45,559
Speaker 1: in a lot of work, a lot of time, and

1390
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 1: a lot of money to do it. And I was

1391
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 1: talking that we had an event down in Rock Springs,

1392
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 1: and I'll make this short. We had an event down

1393
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 1: in Rock Springs and they all bait hunt down there,

1394
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, And and I They're like, man, i'd love

1395
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,719
Speaker 1: to go spot stock hunt in Montana, this one couple.

1396
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, if you do want to goal,

1397
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: I can point in some areas. And so I was

1398
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 1: talking around the phone the other day and she's like,

1399
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 1: I don't need to do this with bait. I don't

1400
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 1: need to do this. She's like, holy crap. Spot stock

1401
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: hunting sounds so much easier in bath hunging. I'm like,

1402
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 1: it's not as easy to find them. But I said,

1403
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: they all have their challenges. And I said, bait hunting

1404
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: is time consuming and it's a lot of work if

1405
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:20,599
Speaker 1: you're gonna do it right. Houndsmen have other challenges. They

1406
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,679
Speaker 1: got the amount of money they put into their dog

1407
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 1: days all year round just to hunt a few months

1408
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: out of the year. So every one of them has

1409
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 1: their challenges, like you said, and I think it's key

1410
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 1: to to explain that to people, like people have never

1411
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:36,600
Speaker 1: bait hunted, like I would love to take you, and

1412
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:38,800
Speaker 1: so you can understand what it is. You know, and

1413
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: just because you put bait out there doesn't mean you're

1414
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 1: gonna shoot a bear. I mean, I wish it was

1415
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 1: that easy. That's that's that's awesome that you said that.

1416
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 1: Now I have a thing that I say in private,

1417
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 1: and I'll make it public here. I had. I had

1418
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 1: a spotting stock given me a hard time about bait

1419
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 1: and bearing. I'm a friend totally. We were just ribbing

1420
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 1: each other and he was talking about how easy it

1421
01:12:57,800 --> 01:12:59,679
Speaker 1: would be to hunt bear of her bait, and I said,

1422
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 1: way to minute, you're telling me that you just wake

1423
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 1: up in the morning on the day you decide you're

1424
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 1: gonna hunt and strut out to some hilltop glass of

1425
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 1: bear from a long ways away that doesn't know he's

1426
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: being hunted, and walk over to him and shoot him

1427
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: from two hundred yards. And I'm like, you're telling me

1428
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 1: that that that sounds easy to me. It's a joke,

1429
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: a joke. It's just like you're hunting an animal that

1430
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 1: doesn't even know he's been hunted. Come on, man, that's

1431
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 1: not even fair. Chase. You know, I always say this.

1432
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: I have a joke too, I said, well, feeding bears

1433
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: is easy because they're gonna eat, but killing him on

1434
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 1: bait is a totally different story. I don't care how

1435
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 1: dialed in you are. And I I've been humbled just

1436
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: about the time I think I got bears figured out,

1437
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: I get a year, I'm just like, what am I doing?

1438
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: You know, they just totally will humble you. And it's like,

1439
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 1: that's why I love him so much, and their individual

1440
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: qualities and every body they're like people. Every bear is

1441
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 1: different and some days are in good moods and some

1442
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 1: days are in crappy moods. And a cool thing about

1443
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: baiting that I grew up bot stock hunting and it's

1444
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,719
Speaker 1: my passion. I love it, um, but I never got

1445
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: to really observe and be around bears like I do now. Baits.

1446
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: There's no other hunt for North American big game that

1447
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 1: you get to interact as closely with an animal for

1448
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 1: as long a period of times as a baited black

1449
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 1: bear hunt. And it'll change your view and your respect

1450
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 1: level for bears when you get to sit there. I mean,

1451
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 1: I was in Alberta hunting and it got dark, and

1452
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: you know in Canada, and I did a similar thing.

1453
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 1: I brought my own four wheeler up and I ran

1454
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 1: baits and I did. I was like, you're not. And

1455
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 1: I was up there for like ten days and I

1456
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 1: hunted this one bait for this whopper bear that had

1457
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 1: on camera and I sat. I sat the last day.

1458
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 1: I sat from morning until dark and didn't leave there.

1459
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: And that dumb thing never came in, but that like

1460
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 1: ten other bears came in. And by the by it

1461
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 1: got dark, it was like eleven or twelve, and I

1462
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm gonna walk down to my fore

1463
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,759
Speaker 1: whether it's dark, and this baits like seven yards away

1464
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 1: and there's bears. The one sole came up the dang

1465
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: tree and it was just western in there, and I

1466
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 1: loved every second of it. But I'll never forget as

1467
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:04,200
Speaker 1: long as I live, and I get chills talking about it.

1468
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:06,679
Speaker 1: And they've baited with a lot of beef and meat

1469
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: scraps up there, and you can hear those things down

1470
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: there snapping bones. And these aren't even whopper bears. You know,

1471
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 1: five footers, they're just snapping bones and crunching, and you

1472
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: had to crawl down the stand. The barrels here like

1473
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 1: right across from and you had to kind of go

1474
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 1: in between the stand and the barrel and like eight

1475
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 1: yards to get out of there. And I'm like, here

1476
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 1: we go, man, you know what alive? What a way

1477
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 1: to feel alive. But yeah, everything is. But baiting has

1478
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: made it to where I can really pay attention bears

1479
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 1: and I don't know how many years I've not shot

1480
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 1: bears and I've just sat there for nights and just

1481
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 1: watched them and took pictures and just loved being not

1482
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:45,560
Speaker 1: close and just seeing them and gosh, their manners and

1483
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 1: they're amazing. I can talk about it forever. That bated

1484
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 1: hunt is what like gave me that appreciation for bearers

1485
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: because they just every single one had a different characteristic

1486
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 1: or mannerisms are the way that they acted. So it

1487
01:15:57,200 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 1: was just like knowing that they have a personality light

1488
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 1: the spotting stock spoiler alert, it kicked my butt. Yeah,

1489
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:10,719
Speaker 1: well you went from to Montana, who different, just different.

1490
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 1: They all offer their own challenges and and not one's

1491
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 1: worse than the other, better than the other They're all

1492
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 1: awesome and I I've yet to do a hound hunt.

1493
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 1: That is my I'm going to. I was gonna try

1494
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: and do one this year, and I got that Grizzly tag,

1495
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 1: so that one on the on the snide. So I've

1496
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:29,760
Speaker 1: got to get behind hounds chasing bears one of these days.

1497
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:31,680
Speaker 1: Whether I take one or not, I just want to

1498
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 1: do it. I've chased cats with dogs, but I want

1499
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:37,920
Speaker 1: to do a bear one so bad, uh, because I

1500
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 1: want to experience it all. And I know that's something

1501
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 1: be easy either. I just love it. It's a whole

1502
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 1: different challenge everyone, and that's what's so cool about it,

1503
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: all these different challenges. Hey, we better wrap it up here. Yeah,

1504
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: thanks bunch, Joe, thank you guys. Good to be here.

1505
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,080
Speaker 1: Keep you wild places wild, because that's where the bears

1506
01:16:55,120 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 1: going pretty well be