1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to step Mom Never told 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: you Home House to works dot Com. Hey, welcome to 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristen. Kristen. Let's 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: start off with an email we got from one of 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: our listeners who suggested a topic. Okay, the emails from Dianna, 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: and she requested the topic of arranged marriages, and I 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: just want to read a few lines of her email. Uh. 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: The topic came to mind because she saw a movie 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: called Arranged, and it got her to thinking about the 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: process of how parents will arrange marriages for their children. 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: She's heard statistics that say arranged marriages have a lower 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: rate of divorce than love marriages. And my initial reaction, 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: she writes, was that those couples couldn't be happy they 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: just didn't divorce because the cultures that have arranged marriages 16 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: also don't believe in divorce. But statistics aside, the more 17 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: I think about the process of an arranged marriage, the 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: more that it is starting to seem like a healthy 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: way to approach marriage. Your with screens potential partners and 20 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: has semi formal get together in which you all meet 21 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: and discuss the hard facts that many couples are too 22 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: shy or ignorant to ask about. And ma'am, you're done. 23 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: You've got the finances in line, you know, like what 24 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: the person wants. So, I mean, I think she lays 25 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: out sort of an interesting you know comparison. Is it 26 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: Is it something that people get trapped in because they 27 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: can't divorce in their culture or is it actually a 28 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: pretty decent way to get to know someone. Yeah, So 29 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: we thought that we would examine this idea of whether 30 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: you should let your parents pick your partner based on 31 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: I would say the number one country we probably think 32 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: of when we talk about arranged marriage, and that would 33 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: be India, right, um And to start off with the 34 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: idea of arranged marriage and specifically Hindu culture in India 35 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: goes way way back and it's derived from laws interpreted 36 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: in the Dharmas Shastras, which we're a collection of rules 37 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: and conducts for society dating back to four thousand BC. 38 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: And it basically maintained that mary is a duty in 39 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: a sacrament required of all human beings for the well 40 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: being of your community. And um uh, the source that 41 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: we found from Emory University says that arranged marriages really 42 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: became part of the Indian cultural fabric around the fourth century. 43 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 1: So no wonder we associate the practice with India if 44 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: it's been around that long. It serves very specific purposes 45 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: in that society, according to this Emory source. And you know, 46 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: if you think about India, you're also probably thinking about 47 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: the cast system. How there are certain social classes with 48 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: which you cannot basically mingle, uh if you're from a 49 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: different one, and so arranged marriages, you know, pretty bluntly 50 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: served to make sure that those casts don't mix because 51 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: your parents are likely going to pick someone who is 52 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: from the same cast. And then it also gives um 53 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: you a chance to preserve your ancestral line, gives you 54 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: an opportunity to strengthen kinship bonds because you know, you 55 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: make sure that India is also very much based on 56 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: this joint family system, very strong um family groups, and 57 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: also allows for consolidation and extension of family property because 58 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: way back in the day, women could not inherit any 59 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: property and so by arranging these marriages, parents could ensure 60 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: that they could pass their property along to their sons. 61 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: And it kind of protected their assets. So I think 62 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: from our modern day perspective, um, we we could see 63 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: how this might seem you know, like a like such 64 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: a backwards idea because it's basically upper class families ensuring 65 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: that other you know, that their their kids marry into 66 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: other upper class families. Um, you know, it does seem 67 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: a little bit weird. Yeah, I mean because we might 68 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: idealize this idea of finding finding someone, falling in love 69 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: then spending the rest of our lives together. But Molly, 70 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: I got to say, um, if you look at these 71 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: seven criteria that would that matchmakers, these Indian matchmakers would follow, 72 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: it kind of reminds me of some of the elements 73 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: of say online dating today, where you're able to put 74 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: in exact qualities that you want another person and hopefully 75 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: get your which love matchal true love match. And uh. 76 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: These criteria would include, of course, the cast and then 77 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: the social structure, moral value compatibility hello e harmony dot com, 78 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: academic compatibility. I'm sure there's some site like that, occupational compatibility, families, 79 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: moral history, and my favorite horoscope compatibility. So it's looking 80 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: at these things from all all different angles. They're not 81 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: just you know, just pulling pulling one girl and then 82 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: you know, pointing to a dude and saying, make it happen. 83 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: They really were going through and they would also make 84 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: sure that they were separated enough geographically that there wouldn't 85 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: be intersecting familial lines, so you start to a little 86 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: bit of in breeding going on. They're very careful about 87 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: all this, right. But you know, if you want to 88 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: look at it again from a Western perspective, which I'm 89 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: not saying is the way we should look at it. 90 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: But you know, I bet a lot of our listeners 91 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: who are thinking, knowing horoscope compatibility is all very well 92 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: and good, but the fact of the matter is is 93 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: that parents would often keep their children out of the loop, 94 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: and you'dn't only know that you were, you know, being 95 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: evaluated by a matchmaker in this way when you started 96 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: to get letters from your potential husband's father, which you know, 97 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: is that a good way to do it? Yeah, I mean. 98 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: And of course there are also issues that we could 99 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 1: get into, such as the age of specifically the girls 100 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: who would be arranged in these marriages. It wasn't until 101 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: the child the Marriage Restraint Act of nineteen seventy eight 102 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: that the legal age of marriage was restricted to eighteen 103 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: for females because a lot of times they would be 104 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: matched up when they were very early in puberty and 105 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: they would not necessarily consummate the marriage until a number 106 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: of years lay Eader, but they would move into their 107 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: in laws family and sort of be is groomed for 108 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: being a wife. Um, So that might be a little more. Yeah. 109 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: And the other tricky thing is tying your child to 110 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: a dowry, which is the exchange of goods, you know, money, 111 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: and it's something that the wife brings into the marriage. 112 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: And some families will negotiate a higher dowry a lower 113 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: dowry based on what they think the woman is worth. 114 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: And you know, we discussed this email or to bride's 115 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: is as feminist, it's hard to have, you know, a 116 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: great feeling about tying a woman to you know, a 117 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: certain you know, physical object. Is that being her worth? Um? 118 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: And you know the article from memory does site that 119 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: you know, it was to some extent a sign of 120 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: the family self esteem. Basically, we can afford to give 121 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: you all this land because our daughter is so worthy, right. 122 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: I mean, this whole concept is kind of predicated on 123 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: the idea of women as property and For instance, Um, 124 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: there is a paper we found called I Will Speak 125 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: out Um about there was a lot of interviews with 126 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: women who were in arranged marriages, and she points out 127 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: that um wife, the word wife was often used interchangeably 128 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: with the word household. So you know, this isn't from, yes, 129 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: the westernest feminist perspective. This isn't exactly an enlightened idea, 130 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: but I think that it's worth looking at, especially if 131 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: we go back and look at the roots of Western marriage, 132 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: which we will do later on. But now I think 133 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: Molly would be a good time to kind of fast 134 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: forward because arranged marriage has evolved a lot in India, 135 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: and because of globalization and industrialization in India, it's also 136 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: given way to arise in so called love marriages, which 137 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: would be the kind of typical falling in love, dating, meeting, 138 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: what have you, and then getting married set up that 139 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: we think of today. Right. I think that you know, 140 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: the West has had a tremendous influence on India. They 141 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: see that that's sort of the you know, for lack 142 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: of a better word, lets say, the American way of 143 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: getting married. You meet someone in very in a cute way, 144 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: and meet cute um and you have a bond that's emotional, physical, spiritual, 145 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: everything's perfect, and that person will be your spouse, and 146 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: that has undoubtedly affected Indian culture. So today I think 147 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: that that influence has led to a very interesting mix 148 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: of arranged marriages that are sometimes based on love, flat 149 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: out love marriages, as we're gonna call them, absent of 150 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: any sort of parental approval, and the remaining old system 151 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: of just arranged marriage is pure and simple. And so 152 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: to talk about this, I think a great place to 153 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: start is this Newsweek article from two thousand and eight 154 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: by Jason Overdorf that Molly and I found, which was 155 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: really great resource with a lot of your statistics that 156 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: kind of touches on a lot of these different aspects 157 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: of arranged marriage and love marriage in India today. So 158 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna refer to it a lot. So to start 159 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: off with, according to research from the University of Chicago, 160 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: love marriages now account for about ten percent of urban weddings, 161 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: and then an additional nineteen percent of those surveyed UH 162 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: first had to get their parents approval. They met on 163 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: their own, but they then had to get their parents 164 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: approval to seal the deal, and not unlike in the 165 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: United States. The Internet is playing a huge part in 166 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: this because now instead of you know someone, you know 167 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: one person's father writing a letter to another person's father, 168 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: couples can see each other on the internet. The fathers 169 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: could scream people on the internet. So internet matchmaking is 170 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: becoming a huge deal. In India, the revenue of these 171 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: online matchmakers has doubled to about thirty five million in 172 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: two thousand seven compared to just fifteen million in two 173 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: thousand six, and twelve million Indians, which is about half 174 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: the country's Internet users, according to Overdorf, are using these 175 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: matrimonial sites. Yeah, and a lot of these matrimonial sites 176 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: are also divided by cast. So you can go to 177 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: shoddy dot com if you're from that specific cast, and 178 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: you will know right then that you are going to 179 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: hopefully be meeting other men and women from that specific cast. 180 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: So there are all sorts of these online online matchmaking 181 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: sites that have become really popular. But at the same 182 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: time that we have this shift in in marriage, we 183 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: think it might be a great thing from our Western 184 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: perspective of oh, yeah, we're you know, we're letting letting 185 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: love in more just letting our hearts. Guide our decisions. 186 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: At the same time, this has been coupled with a 187 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: rise in divorce rates as well. Um demographers say that 188 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: divorce rates doubled from about seven percent in two thousand 189 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: one when the latest senses was taken, and that's still 190 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: extremely low. But like our listener pointed out um in 191 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: the email that she sent, lower divorce rates are associated 192 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: with arranged marriages. And I thought it was interesting too 193 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: that it's not necessarily emancipated women who are getting divorced 194 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: and leaving their husbands a lot of times, it's also 195 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: the men who are fed up with these these women 196 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: who don't want to sit at home and just take 197 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: care of the house and be a good wife, perform 198 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: her wifely duties, and they're just you know, they're done 199 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: with it. Shades of our mail Order Bride podcast. The 200 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: difference being that this is taking place in India, where 201 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: because arranged marriage has had such a hold on the society, 202 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: divorce is such a new phenomenon that actually divorce courts 203 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: aren't really set up that well. In the process of 204 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: getting a divorce in India can take years and years, 205 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: so it's not like just because all of a sudden 206 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: they can have a love marriage, they can have a nice, 207 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: quick and easy divorce. Yeah. According to this Newspek article, 208 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: it could take up to fifteen years to process a 209 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: divorce if one of the spouse subjects, I would just 210 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: give up the runaway probably. Speaking of running away, Kristen, 211 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: let's say that you've got some parents who have decided 212 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: that you're gonna marry a nice boy within your cast um. 213 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: You know, your horroscopes match out. But despite all these, 214 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, reasonable economic concerns being worked out for you, 215 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: and you've got your parental provle, you have fallen in 216 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: love with a bad boy from the wrong eye the 217 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:06,719 Speaker 1: tracks from another cast I think that you're referring to eloping. Eloping, 218 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: and this is becoming a huge thing in India because, 219 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: I mean, if you see how, you know, our culture 220 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: values just following your heart. What's what's to stop you 221 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: from running away with the one you love, you know, 222 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: not thinking of the consequences, just getting married for the 223 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: sake of love. Yeah, and those things. Themes are starting 224 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: to crop up in more in Indian popular culture as 225 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: well in Bollywood films, and because this cast system is 226 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: becoming a little more flexible, because they are more they're 227 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: actually quotas that have been opened up for lower casts 228 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: in education and government jobs. Women are making a lot 229 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: more money. It's shaking up this whole social structure. And 230 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: I believe the Indian courts even began offering monetary incentives 231 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: for intercast marriages as in an effort to start breaking down, um, 232 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: the social structure even more. But it can have very 233 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: violent effects. I was about to say, what have you 234 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: ever heard of a peaceful societal change taking place of 235 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: such magnitude? No, no, And that's and it's not happening 236 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: in India. It's still a very you know, there are 237 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: people who are stuck in their ways and aren't willing 238 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: to accept that their children might want to marry someone 239 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: from a different cast. So let's say Kristen does run 240 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: off with a boy from a lower cast. There's a 241 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: very troubling trend in India, particularly in one cast known 242 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: as the jot cast. Uh in newsweak it says it's 243 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: located in rural Haryana, Punjab and Uttar Pradesh, where couples 244 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: who elope that are part of different casts are murdered, 245 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: usually both of them. Yeah, there have been um a 246 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: number of pretty tragic stories. About these couples trying to 247 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: run away and they can even in some instances try 248 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: to get police protection, but at some point, UM, they 249 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: will be lynched or just murdered in the middle of 250 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: the night. And they think a lot of this has 251 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: to do with these village rulers because a lot of 252 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: these these aren't in large urban areas Caesar and smaller 253 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: remote villages um that are oftentimes ruled by groups of 254 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: village elders called the cop panchayat. I hope I'm saying 255 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: that correctly, um, And they're basically the village patriarchs who 256 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: do not want to see intercast marriages at all, and 257 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: they don't necessarily order the killings outright, but at the 258 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: same time they kind of sound like the mob. They 259 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: just sort of make things happen. That's why it sounds like. 260 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: And it goes back to that thing you talked about 261 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: earlier when the matchmaker's criteria is that they wouldn't be 262 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: from nearby locations and so basically two people who answer 263 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: to that same group are not allowed to marry, and 264 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: if they do marry, then you know, like like Kristen said, 265 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: these stories are tragic. There was one that we're reading 266 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: about where you know, basically a love sick boy just 267 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: wrote the girlly liked a letter, and because she was 268 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: from the different cast and you know, lived in the 269 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: wrong town, he was killed. It's it's very troubling um 270 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: to see how this sort of clash of the culture 271 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: is just causing so much violence and a lot of 272 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: times too, if a girl runs away with a boy 273 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: and they are eventually stopped, you know, and separated, they 274 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: will force the girl into saying that she was kidnapped 275 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: or raped by the boy, and then the boy will 276 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: then be then be punished somehow. So they're kind of 277 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: doing everything in their power to stop these matches. And 278 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: I think in one of these small villages, one of 279 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: the articles we found reported that there had been five 280 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: of these types of murders just in one month. It 281 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: had become so widespread. And this isn't just limited as 282 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: small villages in India. It's also happened some in the 283 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: United States as well. I think it was somewhere in Chicago. 284 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: I want to say, a father ended up murdering his 285 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: daughter after she had married a guy who was outside 286 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: of their cast. So Newsweek makes the argument that because uh, 287 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: society still puts so many stackles on marriages that aren't arranged. 288 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: Many young people still go the arranged marriage route, but 289 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: they do get to play a greater role in the process. 290 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: Uh Newsweek estimates that probably about of the online profiles 291 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: are written by the actual person who is being considered marriageable. 292 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about this is that there might 293 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: be an economic incentive to allowing a little more leeway 294 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: with the actual boys and girls, men and women choosing 295 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: their partner, not necessarily, you know, eliminating all sorts of 296 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: parental approval, but um, just consider this. The Atlantic magazine 297 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: reported on a study from the University of Chicago that 298 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: found that when upper class middle Indian parents helped selected 299 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: a wife for their son, he's eleven percent less likely 300 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: to marry a college educated woman and nearly twenty less 301 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: likely to marry a working woman than is a comparable 302 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: man who enters into a quote love marriage, and that's 303 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: also independent of his parents wishes. And furthermore, these this 304 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: can also have benefits for the woman, not surprisingly because 305 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: studies also shared the more education and earning power a 306 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: woman enjoys and the more control she exercises in the family. 307 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: Because a lot of times with these traditional arranged marriages 308 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: in India because of their joint family system, the woman 309 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: will be brought into the family and is sort of, 310 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: um supervised I guess by the mother in law, and 311 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: that can cause a lot of conflicts, and she's very 312 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: much tied to the household while the guy will go 313 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: out and be the breadwinner. So there is evidence that, 314 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, things are changing in India as their society 315 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: changes a little bit. But let's come to our country. Um. 316 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: We found a really interesting New York magazine article that 317 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: featured a young woman who lived in New York City 318 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: who was writing about the fact that she would might 319 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: end up in an arranged marriage. You know, she started 320 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: off by a resistance to the idea, but she's met 321 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,239 Speaker 1: some of the people that her parents that are up with, 322 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: and the article just sort of went over her responses 323 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: to each person. Yeah, and the thing is reading about 324 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: her sort of arranged marriage. For rays, it wasn't that 325 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: much different than I imagine a lot of online dating 326 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: and just dating in general, to be It wasn't She 327 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: wasn't just set up, you know, with one guy who 328 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: she was supposed to go out with. She kind of 329 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: bounced around from guy to guy and went on a 330 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: number of different dates with a lot of different men 331 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: who had all of the specific qualifications that her father 332 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: in particular was looking for. Um and it kind of 333 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: just seemed a lot similar to just basic dating, but 334 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: just with a little more intention behind it, because at 335 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: one point, she says, you know, it does take some 336 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: pressure off the whole dating scenario because at least both 337 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: me and the Indian guy I'm sitting across from know 338 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: that we want something to end up in marriage. You know, 339 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: we don't have to like beat around the bush as 340 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: a lot of westernized dating today does. Right. Yeah, I 341 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: mean she kept calling it dating for dating sake. You know, 342 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: you wouldn't just, you know how one of those weird 343 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: amorphous git togethers. That's kind of a date but kind 344 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: of non and you really don't know if you're on 345 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: a date. You know, you know you're on a date. 346 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 1: You know that the guy eventually wants to get married. Uh. I'mlike, 347 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: you know, you might meet a guy in in this 348 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: country and be like, yeah, I want to get married 349 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: and he doesn't tell you it's in you know, thirty years. Yeah, 350 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: it was funny, Uh, She says, when I go out 351 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: on a first date with an Indian man, I find 352 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: myself saying things I would never utter to an American, 353 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: like I would expect my husband to fully share domestic chores. Undeniably, 354 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: there's a lack of mystery to Indian style dating because 355 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: both parties are fully aware of what the endgame should be. 356 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: But with that also comes a certain relief. So I 357 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: thought that that was a pretty interesting perspective because, like 358 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: one UH research paper that Molly and I were looking 359 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: at points out, it's really easy from our very westernized 360 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: perspective to immediately look at arranged marriages and cast of 361 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: value judgment on it as something that is completely um 362 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: anti feminist and wrong and should be abolished because what 363 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: greater thing in life is there than love? But as 364 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: that research paper pointing out, the idea of marrying for 365 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: love such a new concept in the United States, and 366 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: I think it's worth You know, Kristen's gotten a lot 367 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: of flak for in one podcast saying that we should 368 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: totally abolish marriage. I think that you should say saying 369 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: by joking, Christian wants to make clear that she was actually, 370 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, not completely serious, that she wants to get 371 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: rid of marriage. Um. But I think that she were 372 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: trying to get to an argument that we put too 373 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: much emphasis on it and expect too much of it. 374 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: And this this subject kind of gets the same thing, 375 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: as you know, by trying to find someone your one 376 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: compatible with, as opposed to someone who just thinks the 377 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: same way you do wants to raise a family too, 378 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: you know, is there a compromise to be struck between 379 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: the two. Well, the interesting thing is, and this is 380 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: referring to a paper call Arranging Love by Mina Condel Wall. 381 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: And the interesting thing is if you look at the 382 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: history of Western love marriage and then you look at 383 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: Eastern marriage, Basically in the West, uh quote unquote, love 384 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: marriage did not really come about into regular practice until 385 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds with the rise of wage labor. It 386 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: really took broad industrialization and capitalization and the Enlightenment ideals 387 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: um to uh to actually like get couples out of parents, 388 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: away from parents purviews and mating on their own. And really, 389 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: if you think about it, that's kind of the exact 390 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: same thing in a very more modern sense that's going 391 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: on in India. You have rapid industrialization, you have globalization, 392 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: you have women and men from all societal um levels 393 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: making more money than ever before. And what do you know, 394 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: now you're having a rise in love marriage as well. 395 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,959 Speaker 1: So do you think that of eventually India will look 396 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: a little bit more like America with with a greater 397 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: number of love marriages or do you think that the 398 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: violence and other obstacles with you know, the difficulty of 399 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: tying a dimores the control that parents still exercise over 400 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: their children. I mean, I was wondering if arranged marriages 401 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: would would be going extinct as the country continues to develop. Well, 402 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: I don't think that arranged marriage would necessarily go extinct 403 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: in terms of the emphasis on parental approval for who 404 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: you marry, because that's one thing I think that we 405 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: saw over and over again in a lot of these 406 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: um stories about men and women who would meet who 407 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: might not be from the same cast, but they would 408 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: still want to get parental approval because that family structure 409 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: is so important in Indian culture, I would say even 410 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: more so than in the United States. And I mean 411 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: a Conda Wall makes a really interesting point that uh, 412 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: Indians and Americans simply discuss the idea of love in 413 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: very different terms as well, because in Indian terms, it's 414 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: approach from more of a societal's stance of what's good 415 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: for the community, whereas in the United States we think 416 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: if it as more of what's good for me, how 417 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: can I follow my own heart? Right? These two people 418 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: whereas you know, we were talking a little bit before 419 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: the podcast, where if you do kind of make that 420 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: decision to marry another family, this joint family agreement, you 421 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: have so much more support, Like let's say you do. Actually, 422 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: you've got all these extra people to help you with it. 423 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: You have a whole community built in for for your family. Yeah. 424 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: So I think in some ways there is something to 425 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: be said for both a little bit of arrangement, a 426 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: little bit of love. Maybe we could meet in the middle. 427 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: I like it. But we don't want to say one 428 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: way or the other what we think. And Kristin certainly 429 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: doesn't want to suggest that we abolish love marriage again 430 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: because the emails just keep coming. Yeah, so we want 431 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: to know what you guys think, um about arranged marriages, 432 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: uh pro con experiences with them. We'd love to hear them, um, 433 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: So write us. Our email address is mom Stuff at 434 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. And we will now go 435 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: into some people who have written us at that address. 436 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: And first off, we're not gonna name you all by name. 437 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: We want to thank all the people who know their 438 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: geography better than Kristen I do, yes. And it is 439 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: incorrect to say the Ukraine as we did in our 440 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: mail Order Bride podcast. Evidently we said the Ukraine over 441 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: and over and over again, driving some listeners quite insane. 442 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: And for that we apologize because if we had been 443 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: talking about the Canada, UH be feeling real, real stupid 444 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: right now, so embarrassed. So yeah, listen for us all, 445 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: no need to say the Ukraine any more. People drop 446 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: the v It's just Ukraine. Let's use it in a sentence. Hi, Molly, 447 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: I think next week I'm going to go to Ukraine. 448 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: That sounds like a pleasant trip bringing back a souvenir 449 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: from Ukraine. Okay, all right, so let's do another one. 450 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: Do you want to read this one, Christo? I'm sure 451 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: all right. We've got one here from Hannah from California. 452 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: She says, I'm writing you a your episode on Miss 453 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 1: America and how that title was viewed by feminists as 454 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: the opposite of the ideal woman. I counter this by 455 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: saying that being beautiful and having physical talent doesn't make 456 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: someone less of a woman than one that is politically 457 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: involved in advocating civil rights. Also, who are feminists to 458 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: decide what is or isn't an ideal woman? That statement 459 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: alone seems sexist. I believe that we all have a 460 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: purpose and something to give to this world, and many 461 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: girls feel that showing their beauty, talents and ability to 462 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: have a great public image. If a girl wants to 463 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: dance on stage in bikini, that's her prerogative, and whether 464 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: someone agrees with her actions or doesn't is really none 465 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: of their concern. A quote feminist woman doesn't have any 466 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: more right to judge what makes a real woman than 467 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: a man. And may I just say why is words 468 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: from a sixteen year old Yes, thank you, Hannah. I 469 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: have an email from a Lease on the same podcast, 470 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: she writes that I think perspective Miss America should have 471 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: to write an essay, give a speech, or do something 472 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: to express their personal stories, beliefs and thoughts. But be 473 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: nice for these girls to be able to vocalize what 474 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: they believe in who they are as people speaking, we 475 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: showed the intelligent side of some of the girls or 476 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,239 Speaker 1: the really dumb ones would be ruled out. Or does 477 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: that mean, she questioned, they we have to show more 478 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: of themselves than just skin. The only promise that whenever 479 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,719 Speaker 1: someone has an opinion, someone else will have another opinion 480 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: that will not agree with the other person's opinion. And 481 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: like we saw at the Miss California incident, we have 482 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: problems accepting those who believe in ways that we don't. 483 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: Freedom of speech is only as free as we let 484 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: it be, and unfortunately, letting a woman express her opinions 485 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: may offend someone and we just can't have that. Can 486 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: we know? The sarcasm and my voice, she writes, which 487 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if I did a great job with 488 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: the sarcasm. That was probably in her voice, but I tried. 489 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: So that's the email police. Thanks guys, Yeah, thanks for 490 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: running in again. Our emails Mom stuff at how stuff 491 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: works dot com and during the week you can head 492 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: over to our blog It's how to stuff and you 493 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: can find a number of articles at Molly and I 494 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: have written as well at the address how stuff works 495 00:26:53,200 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Want more house staff works, check out our 496 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page. 497 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the Reinvented two thousand, twelve Camray 498 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you