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Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

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Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know

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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is

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Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier,

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Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a Breaking Points Premium

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Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money

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Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and

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Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage

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Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. So

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Speaker 1: we've been covering the way that the dab's decision overturning

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Speaker 1: row versus weight has shifted the types of voters who

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Speaker 1: were registering to vote, and apparently based on special elections,

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Speaker 1: who are then going ahead and actually voting in these elections.

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Speaker 1: It's not just though, that women are registering more than men.

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Speaker 1: There's some new data that indicates young people, who tend

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Speaker 1: to be more democratic, are also registering in larger numbers.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: This analysis from the Houston Chronicle says young Democrats are

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Speaker 1: flocking to register to vote in Texas after abortion ruling.

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Speaker 1: Data shows they point to in particular, this is data

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Speaker 1: from that company Target Smart again, which I want to

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Speaker 1: fully disclose, the Democratic aligned firm, but one that they

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Speaker 1: really rely on in terms of accurate data for their

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Speaker 1: own voter or drive efforts. They say that of eighty

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Speaker 1: thousand new voters added through the end of July, Democrats

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Speaker 1: now have a ten percentage point advantage, making up forty

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Speaker 1: two percent to Republicans thirty two before the ruling Republicans

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Speaker 1: had a five point advantage. So it went from Republicans

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Speaker 1: having a five point advantage to Democrats having a ten

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Speaker 1: point advantage in terms of voter registration. And they are

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Speaker 1: finding that it's not just women that new voter registrants

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Speaker 1: tend to be younger, and obviously that's one of the

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Speaker 1: trickiest parts of the Democratic base to turn out. So

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Speaker 1: interesting news here, yeah, it is. I mean, look, no,

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Speaker 1: this note this very carefully. Are we saying Texas will

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Speaker 1: go blue? No? Are we saying anything always going to win?

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Speaker 1: A pointing only to young Democrat registration, which is a

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Speaker 1: verifiable fact. That's it, and it has gone up after

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Speaker 1: the abortion ruling. Will it sway Texas politics, probably not.

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Speaker 1: Will Beto win probably not. Will this possibly change things

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Speaker 1: on the city and the gubernatorial level or sorry, on

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Speaker 1: the local level. Yeah, maybe maybe. And I think that

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Speaker 1: in trends then you could say, well that's interesting because

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Speaker 1: it could boost voter turnout maybe in other blue states,

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Speaker 1: possibly red states, which would then have downstream effects on

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Speaker 1: you know, midterm races and others. It's just a data

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Speaker 1: point that we're trying to point to and look at,

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Speaker 1: especially given what's going on with polling right now. I

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Speaker 1: think it's an important caveatity. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is just you know, we're trying to read the

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Speaker 1: tea leaves. It's very difficult to know when the polling

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Speaker 1: is accurate. But the voter registration data is what it is,

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Speaker 1: and we have seen. You know, the interesting thing about

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Speaker 1: the data related to women is that is very tied

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Speaker 1: to whether or not they saw abortion access as being

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Speaker 1: on the ballot. So in Kansas, where you had that

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Speaker 1: direct ballot initiative, you had the largest swing in terms

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Speaker 1: of new women registering to vote in other states, I

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Speaker 1: think it was Michigan was another one where they felt like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the governor's race is on the ballot there. I think

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Speaker 1: there's going to be also a direct abortion access ballot

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Speaker 1: initiative there as well. You saw significant swings in other

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Speaker 1: states like New York, where they didn't feel abortion access

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Speaker 1: was as threatened. You didn't see that same shift in

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Speaker 1: voter registration data. So it's a pretty compelling case that

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Speaker 1: it is very much directly tied to Row and what

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Speaker 1: happened there. So what is this all going to mean

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Speaker 1: for the fall Hard to say, but obviously it's harder

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Speaker 1: to get young people to turn out. When you see

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Speaker 1: young people registering that vodes well generally for the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party and is a good indicator for them. Isn't enough

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Speaker 1: to overcome in Texas, No, but you could extrapolate that

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Speaker 1: this is likely happening in other states as well, where

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Speaker 1: it could ultimately matter exactly. So, look, if there is

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Speaker 1: ground for surprise, it will possibly come from these things

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Speaker 1: that very notoriously don't show up in polls. It's one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons Obama was such a stunner back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight young people. Obviously, you know, if

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Speaker 1: the turnout actually changes even a little bit from their

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Speaker 1: end can change and impact the election. We'll see how

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Speaker 1: it goes. But interesting stuff really happening all around the

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Speaker 1: country as a result of dobbs, which is really just thrown.

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Speaker 1: It's really just thrown things in a different direction than

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Speaker 1: where things they were already headed. The death of the

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Speaker 1: queen last week sparked a million Twitter takes, probably way

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Speaker 1: more than that, actually more than good, bad and ugly,

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Speaker 1: and also some censorship of those Twitter takes. Let's go

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Speaker 1: ahead and put this up on the screen here. Twitter

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Speaker 1: says it censored a tweet wishing that Queen Elizabeth would

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Speaker 1: suffer on her death ped because it might quote harass, intimidate,

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Speaker 1: or silence her. Okay, but is it possible for literally

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Speaker 1: anyone to do that to a monarch with a single tweet.

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Speaker 1: It is a fascinating case to me. The Intercept has

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Speaker 1: the report here. They say the policy that Twitter invoked

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Speaker 1: to justify taking this tweet down, this was from a professor,

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Speaker 1: was intended to protect the world's longest reigning monarch, who

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Speaker 1: died that day from being silence. Hard to see how

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Speaker 1: that really justifies let me read you the tweet. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not like, this is not how I would have

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Speaker 1: phrased things, even as I have a critique of the

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Speaker 1: monarchy and of course imperialism. But what this professor said

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Speaker 1: was I heard the chief monarch of a thieving, raping,

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Speaker 1: genocidal empire is finally dying. May her pain be excruciating.

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Speaker 1: One of the points that I saw made Sager is

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Speaker 1: that if this was said about, you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the leaders of an official like bad guy state, there's

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Speaker 1: no way they would take It's also it's so foolish.

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Speaker 1: The queen is a public figure, by the way. I

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Speaker 1: think that's ignorant, a stupid tweet, but it doesn't doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that it should have been taken down. It's just

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Speaker 1: ludicrous that they would take it down for quote unquote

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Speaker 1: abusive purposes. By the way, she was getting raked, dunked on,

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Speaker 1: and everybody was calling her a fool, which is punishment enough.

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Speaker 1: Even Bezos apparently jumped in. Yeah. Well, and now it's

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Speaker 1: very convenient because this professor has also been a supporter

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Speaker 1: of the Amazon Lee reunion efforts chure with Chris Small.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think it funny that Bezos then goes

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Speaker 1: and ways in. I'm as a big critic of Bezos,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think that had anything to do with

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Speaker 1: I think it was just cringe on her part. Yeah. Look,

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, let's do a little history lesson. This

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Speaker 1: is a fun one. Here's what she actually says. She said,

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Speaker 1: I heard the chief monarch of a thieving, raping, genocidal

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Speaker 1: empire is finally dying. May her pain be excruciating. Put

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Speaker 1: your critique of the of the monarchy, the institution itself aside.

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Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth presided over rapid decolonization of the entire empire,

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Speaker 1: was the quote unquote Queen of the Commonwealth, and had

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with any colonialism whatsoever. In fact, and

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Speaker 1: this is what annoys the hell out of me, Crystal,

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Speaker 1: which is that the British government is the one responsible

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Speaker 1: for the empire. But they are the ones who, by

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Speaker 1: the way, all the jewels, all of that, they own it.

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Speaker 1: They can return it to the Indian government and should

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Speaker 1: having been to the British Museum tomorrow. It's the monarchy

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Speaker 1: has no control, okay. But if it's not like she

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Speaker 1: is an emblem of that era of colonializations, Okay, come on,

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Speaker 1: did you see the monologue that Tucker did about this.

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Speaker 1: He explicitly made the case that the reason that she

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Speaker 1: is so wonderful and so great is because she is

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Speaker 1: the symbol of that era of the British Empire, and

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Speaker 1: she is. He's right about that. I obviously totally disagree

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Speaker 1: with his take on how that should be viewed. But

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Speaker 1: she is the symbol of that. And it's not like

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Speaker 1: she was objecting to the you know, horrific things that

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Speaker 1: were going on where she's the British colonial aaria. She

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Speaker 1: wasn't even alive during that happening. She or fine, she

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Speaker 1: wasn't even conscious, Like her actual coming of age happened

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Speaker 1: during World War Two, where she served as a mechanic.

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Speaker 1: She became queen in the nineteen fifties and again presided

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Speaker 1: over peaceful decolonization, or at the very least, like the

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Speaker 1: British Empire didn't fight quote unquote while all that was

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Speaker 1: happening under her. Many countries became republics while she was queen.

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Speaker 1: She didn't do anything. In fact, she like sent and

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Speaker 1: attended ceremonies while that happened. Look again, you can put

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Speaker 1: your critique. Archy has not been in charge of British

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Speaker 1: foreign policy. Basically since like whoever the son of King

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Speaker 1: George the Third was, Queen Victoria was the last person

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Speaker 1: who had any say in the British Empire whatsoever. And

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Speaker 1: even though this look again, my family is Indian, we

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Speaker 1: were literally oppressed by the British. You know who I

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Speaker 1: blame Benjamin Disraeli, the Prime Minister of Britain. He's the

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Speaker 1: person who was in charge of the quote unquote emperire

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Speaker 1: of India and proclaimed. By the way, this is another thing.

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Speaker 1: The government is the one that proclaimed Queen Victoria the

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Speaker 1: Empress of India, not the other way around. Everybody points

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Speaker 1: to the Jewels. I agree, guests who stole them the

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Speaker 1: British Army on behalf of the British Empire. It's not

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Speaker 1: like the monarchy outside of getting pensions again from the

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Speaker 1: British government's. It just annoys me because people put their transposed,

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Speaker 1: their like woke bs onto the monarchy and not the government. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but first of all, monarchy is a disgusting system of government. Sure,

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Speaker 1: we had broke away for the reason exactly it should end.

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Speaker 1: Number two, the people who are sell rating her the

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Speaker 1: most in terms of the right wing in America are

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Speaker 1: directly tying her to that legacy and saying things like

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Speaker 1: it was better when I don't know what Tucker said,

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Speaker 1: it was better when England's ruled Rhodesia. That's what he

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Speaker 1: literally was saying, and telling her to that love that era.

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Speaker 1: So let's not pretend like she is not connected to

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Speaker 1: that or like she had a critique of it whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: So to get back to the point here, the bottom

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Speaker 1: line is people had a lot of takes and they

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Speaker 1: should be allowed to say them, and they shouldn't be censored.

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Speaker 1: And if they said it about anyone else around the world,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't be And it shows you how haphazard this

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Speaker 1: whole system of censorship is and how foolish it is

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Speaker 1: for the liberals who advocate for it to not only continue,

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Speaker 1: but to go even further in terms of censorship, even

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Speaker 1: though I think this woman is lucros and yeah and

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Speaker 1: claims oppression. By the way I looked into her background,

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Speaker 1: went to Dartmouth, child of rich immigrants. You know, when

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Speaker 1: Ivy League institutions get some fake you know, counter critical

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Speaker 1: racist linguist paid position at Carnegie Mellon. She's the opposite

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Speaker 1: of oppressed in the United States. But hey, listen, shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be censored even what Carnegie Mellon is now trashing her too,

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Speaker 1: going against have their other free speech claims when they

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Speaker 1: protect Yes, they have in terms of bezos too. Like,

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Speaker 1: I also think that he's seen sort of Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: dabbling in these like becoming a fanboy of the right,

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Speaker 1: and saw this as an opportunity for him to make

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Speaker 1: his own like moves in that you always is the

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Speaker 1: discount Elon in these regardss like discount takes discount space.

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Speaker 1: True that I can absolutely agree with. All Right, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm now a fan of the institutional monarchy. I'm just saying,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of the takes that are out there

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Speaker 1: right now are dramatically uninformed and actually just straight up stupid.

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Speaker 1: So people should read about. By the way, the history

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Speaker 1: of the Empire is very interesting in both in its decline,

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Speaker 1: the way it was ruled, well it's actual legacy, both

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Speaker 1: the horrific parts, and then really in terms of how

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Speaker 1: it all coincided, like with their eventual culmination in the

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Speaker 1: National Health Service, how they consciously chose there's a hopeful

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Speaker 1: story there too. It's interesting that's all I'm saying. All Right, everybody,

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Speaker 1: go read a book. Interesting little update from former George W.

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Speaker 1: Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer. Let's go ahead and put

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Speaker 1: this tear sheet up on the screen. From huff Post.

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Speaker 1: Ari Fleischer accused of bowing to Saudi live golf employer

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Speaker 1: after halting nine eleven tweets. Fleischer, a former press secretary

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Speaker 1: for President George W. Bush and a Fox News contributor,

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Speaker 1: said the speculation was foolish conspiracy theory. Okay, so here's

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Speaker 1: what happened. Okay, every year, I didn't actually know that

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Speaker 1: he does this, but apparently every year since nine to eleven,

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Speaker 1: Ari Fleischer has been on nine eleven sort of live

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Speaker 1: tweeting what happened. Since Twitter's it's been like ten years.

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Speaker 1: I used to follow it too, so he would do

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Speaker 1: this every year. So this year something has changed. Ari

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Speaker 1: Fleischer's communications firm has now been hired by Saudi backed

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Speaker 1: live golf tournament, so apparently making some money from the Saudis.

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Speaker 1: And then lo and behold. He sends out this tweet

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Speaker 1: just before the twenty first anniversary of that tear first attack.

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Speaker 1: He says, quote, I have decided that my story has

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Speaker 1: been told and I will not live tweet what took

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Speaker 1: place on nine to eleven. Again, It's time to let

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Speaker 1: it rest. There is nothing new to say or reveal.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for reading and for caring about our nation's sister.

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Speaker 1: Why did it Jiff? Why did it change from nineteen

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Speaker 1: years to twenty years twenty one years? The only thing

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Speaker 1: that's changed is that now you take Saudi money. And

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Speaker 1: this just is exactly highlights the issue with these people.

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Speaker 1: Ari Fleischer was with President Bush on nine to eleven.

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Speaker 1: He was an Iraq war defender, he's a Fox News stalwart,

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Speaker 1: and now he works for Saudi Arabia straight up literally

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Speaker 1: taking Saudi cash is completely disgusting. I mean nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven is this whole guy, this skuy full identity thing,

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Speaker 1: and then for a big enough paycheck, he's the one

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Speaker 1: to be like, nah, we're good. I think we've said

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Speaker 1: enough here. And one of the most popular things Lisa

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Speaker 1: also blames his travel schedule. Bro, you obviously didn't write

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Speaker 1: those yourself, like you clearly just have interns who repost

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Speaker 1: them and schedule. You can schedule them in a day.

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Speaker 1: It's not that way. Keep it going. I mean, at

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Speaker 1: the very least like, wait, a couple of years to

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Speaker 1: your Saudi contract is you know, not freshly inked. There

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Speaker 1: were a lot of people online, of course, who noted

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Speaker 1: this strange connection between Ari Fleischer changing his long standing

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Speaker 1: tradition and getting a bunch of cash from the Saudis.

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Speaker 1: A Hill reporter said, cannot get over Ari Fleischer getting

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Speaker 1: a pr job with the Saudis and then announcing that

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Speaker 1: actually his nine to eleven play by play tweets have

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Speaker 1: run their course. Yeah, it's too too perfect, and you're right,

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Speaker 1: they're absolutely solas. This was the core of his whole identity.

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Speaker 1: But for the right price, goodbye. We'll move on enough

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Speaker 1: to say about nine to eleven, enough to say I've

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Speaker 1: said my piece. It's like again, you've said it for

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Speaker 1: years and years and years, and now you just decided

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Speaker 1: not to with the completely fake excuse. Only one variable

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Speaker 1: has changed in this. And there's a lot of this

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Speaker 1: stuff going on with liv golf. Remember who was It

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Speaker 1: was like Phil Mickelson who was talking about side and

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Speaker 1: he's like, I didn't meet it or like retracted his

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Speaker 1: his like covering up. I mean, it's got Trump's taken

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Speaker 1: millions and millions. We don't even know how much to

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Speaker 1: host their tournaments. He's talking it up and it's a

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Speaker 1: great thing. And this is a guy who you know,

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Speaker 1: was in the White House and may well be in

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Speaker 1: the White House again with this kind of very direct

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Speaker 1: financial interest in Saudi government. It's disgraceful. And that's to

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Speaker 1: say nothing of Kushner and his cash that he's taken

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Speaker 1: from them. Very true. Something we've been covering for a

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Speaker 1: while here is the distance between the rhetoric from Democrats

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Speaker 1: about what an existential threat certain Republicans are to democracy

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Speaker 1: and their practice of propping some of the most fringe

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Speaker 1: extremist Republicans up in Republican primary institute of millions of

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Speaker 1: dollars with the expectation that maybe you know, these ones

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Speaker 1: who are the furthest on the fringe will be easiest

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Speaker 1: to defeat in November. So Vice President Kamala Harris was

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Speaker 1: actually grilled about exactly this price this practice by Chuck Todd,

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Speaker 1: and she did not have allowed to say about it.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a lism when you see the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: in some parts of the party funding ads to promote

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Speaker 1: some of these election deniers in primaries, whether it's Michigan,

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Speaker 1: the high profile race there Illinois, Colorado, New Hampshire. It

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Speaker 1: looks like a cynical you know, a little bit cynical.

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Speaker 1: And the President went out of his way to say,

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Speaker 1: there are good Republicans here. Should you leave the good

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Speaker 1: Republicans alone in a primary? Should is a Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: making a mistake here? By by? You know, those people

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Speaker 1: could win if you're not careful. I mean, listen, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to tell people how to run their campaigns.

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Speaker 1: You know, I ran in terms of state wide office.

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Speaker 1: Would you have ran? Would you have done this? Is

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Speaker 1: this in your I'm not going to tell people how

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Speaker 1: to run their campaigns. Chuck, I ran for a statewide

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Speaker 1: for attorney general re election, won both times for Senate,

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Speaker 1: won that race, and I know that it is best

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Speaker 1: to to to let a candidate along with their their advisors,

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Speaker 1: let them make the decision based on what they believe

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Speaker 1: is in the best interest of their state. It means

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Speaker 1: nothing as usual, It means absolutely nothing. I mean no defense.

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Speaker 1: There is no defense. There is no defense of it.

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Speaker 1: Either it's an existential threat and we have to do

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Speaker 1: everything we can to stop it, or it's not. And

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Speaker 1: very clearly like based on what not just these Democratic

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Speaker 1: candid's a lot of outside Democratic aligned groups that have

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Speaker 1: been spending money to prop up these candidates. Like okay,

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Speaker 1: so and it wasn't I think there was even d

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Speaker 1: triple C like direct Democratic Party money that was going

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Speaker 1: into some of these primaries as well, because I seem

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Speaker 1: to remember Sean Patrick Coloni having to defend exactly that.

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Speaker 1: One of the most egregious examples was they had a

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Speaker 1: dude who literally voted for Trump's impeachment over January sixth

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Speaker 1: in what was in Michigan, right, and they spent money

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Speaker 1: to defeat him with this guy who's a total election

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Speaker 1: denial And I mean, so you can't defend it. You

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Speaker 1: can't defend it, defend it based on sort of the

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Speaker 1: rhetoric that they have been using. Now, what I've seen

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Speaker 1: Sean Patrick Maloney saying is basically like listen, they're all

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Speaker 1: bad and so we got to win and that's the

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Speaker 1: most important thing. Okay, like make that case. But she

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Speaker 1: just completely dodges here. Yeah, no, it's exactly at least

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Speaker 1: do what Pelosi did. She's like, no, we did it,

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Speaker 1: and it's because we want to win and we think

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Speaker 1: that will or I think James Carville did that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, that's what to do. It's called politics.

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Speaker 1: It's like she doesn't even have the cynical nature enough

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Speaker 1: where she clearly believes she's like no, I stand by it,

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Speaker 1: and just spouts like literal gobbledegook, which is why she

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Speaker 1: is just so awful at this truly. So we've got

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Speaker 1: an update for you on Starbucks corporate and how they

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Speaker 1: have really become some of the worst union busters in

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Speaker 1: the entire country. They're supposedly progressive rhetoric and ethos, notwithstanding

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Speaker 1: here apparently not a barrier to them trying to crush

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Speaker 1: their workers in every way possible. The latest development is

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Speaker 1: that one of the originalists put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: One of the original Buffalo union organizers, those Buffalo stores,

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Speaker 1: the very first to unionize, Jazz Brisak. She says she

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Speaker 1: has been forced out by the company. Now, the company

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Speaker 1: disputes this. She's been pushing for a different schedule. They

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Speaker 1: say that, hey, we're treating you like everybody else and sorry,

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Speaker 1: we can't accommodate you. So I guess you're just going

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Speaker 1: to have to leave. She says, no, You've accommodated all

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Speaker 1: kinds of other people, but for some reason, when it

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Speaker 1: came to me, you've been doing everything you can to

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Speaker 1: push me out the door. This comes on the heels.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Starbucks is under fire for firing a number

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Speaker 1: of top union organizers across the country. The NLRB is

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Speaker 1: already taking action against them in a number of those instances.

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Speaker 1: So this would be far from the first case where

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Speaker 1: Starbucks has been caught pushing out or outright firing labor

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Speaker 1: union organizers. The other piece of this is equally sort

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Speaker 1: of brazen and really astonishing. Let's go ahead and put

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Speaker 1: this next piece up on the screen. Ken Klippenstein tweeting

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Speaker 1: out of Reuter's article here that says Starbucks announces new

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Speaker 1: student loan repayment tools and a savings account program for

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Speaker 1: all US employees who are not union members. Now, Starbucks

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Speaker 1: has been at this for a while now. This was

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Speaker 1: the first thing Howard Schultz did, the former CEO when

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Speaker 1: they brought him back, as he said, Hey, we're going

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Speaker 1: to give new benefits to everyone except union members. The

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Speaker 1: National Abor Relations Board has already said you can't do this.

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Speaker 1: This is brazenly illegal, and yet they're still doing the

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Speaker 1: same thing. Just completely define what the NLRB has said

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Speaker 1: is a legal union busting tactic. Yeah, it's totally crazy.

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Speaker 1: I think with the crazy part really is not just

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Speaker 1: what happened to her, which you know obviously is. It's

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Speaker 1: clearly a retaliation move. As we said, she's been on

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Speaker 1: the show before too, so people should go back. Maybe

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Speaker 1: we'll put links James in the description of this video

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Speaker 1: so people can go and watch those. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean they have been escalating their tactics from the beginning

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Speaker 1: that a legal move on benefits for some but not

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Speaker 1: for others, clearly to try and influence future votes. But

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Speaker 1: to their credit, they're not falling for it every time

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Speaker 1: a vote comes around for unionization. Yeah. Win. So it's

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Speaker 1: not like the companies employees itself are actually listening and

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Speaker 1: are bowing to the intimidation tactics. That doesn't that doesn't

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Speaker 1: stop them from being illegal and terrible at the same time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: in all of that, all of that, yeah, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of the union busting tactics at Starbucks and

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Speaker 1: at Amazon and some of these other companies as well

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Speaker 1: seem to actually be backfiring because it just shows it

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Speaker 1: shows the workers, I think, especially at a company like Starbucks,

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Speaker 1: how full of it they were when they were spouting

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Speaker 1: all this like oh, we're a progressive workplace and our partners,

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Speaker 1: our baristas blah blah blah. No, it really shows exactly

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Speaker 1: what they're all about, and it's just about control and

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Speaker 1: profits ultimately. I do think that. I mean, the Starbucks

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Speaker 1: example is one we keep coming back to because it

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Speaker 1: is the place where the sort of national grassroots union

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Speaker 1: movement has been the fastest paced. It's really has spread

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Speaker 1: like wildfire. You now have I think like two hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty four Starbucks stores nationwide that have unionized. Previously

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Speaker 1: there wasn't even a single one, so that's crazy. In

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Speaker 1: the same respect, it also shows you just what an

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Speaker 1: uphill slog it is, both through the company tactics but

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Speaker 1: also the fact, I think they have like nine thousand stores.

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Speaker 1: So even with this huge movement, wildly successful, historic biggest

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Speaker 1: in history effort within fast food industry, it still doesn't

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Speaker 1: even come close to impacting all Starbucks workers or all

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Speaker 1: Starbucks stores. So it really shows you how our like

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Speaker 1: shot by shop model is very very difficult, makes it

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Speaker 1: very difficult for workers ultimately to succeed, and opens up

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Speaker 1: the door to these types of you know, extreme and

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Speaker 1: illegal pressure tactics from corporations, and of course the NLRB,

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Speaker 1: which has been much better under Joe Biden, is still

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Speaker 1: not perfect. Their hands are tied in terms of really

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Speaker 1: having effective methods of making companies pay for engaging these

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Speaker 1: sort of illegal tactics, which is why they just continue

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Speaker 1: to do it. Sounds like a good argument for sectoral

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Speaker 1: bargaining indeed at all right, guys, more for real. Lator,

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Speaker 1: All right, we're joined next by Congress and Rocana. He's

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Speaker 1: a Democrat from California who represents Silicon Valley and we're

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Speaker 1: glad to have him here on the first inaugural episode

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Speaker 1: of Counterpoints. Congressman, thank you for joining us. Congratulations, I'm

428
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: excited about the show. Yeah, And so, actually, I'm curious

429
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: what what kind of media consumption goes on among your

430
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 1: among your colleagues and Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, Like,

431
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 1: where are they Where are they getting their information? Is

432
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 1: it curated for them by staff and that that, and

433
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: if it's their names in it, they're seeing it. What

434
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: are they personally scrolling? Well, certainly most members get anything

435
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: that's written or said about them from from staff. But

436
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 1: then I think it's generational. I mean, there are some

437
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: of the members who've been here a while who still

438
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 1: read the New York Times, the Washington Post, may read

439
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: their hometown paper every day. Then there are others of

440
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: us who may scroll through our Twitter feed, scroll through

441
00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: social media, go to different websites to get us sense

442
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: of what's going on, and of course check independent media

443
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: as well. It's a good question. I'm always curious about

444
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: that because the idea of Donald Trump sitting in the

445
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: Oval office scrolling through his Twitter mentions, it was just

446
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 1: such a remarkable image, but almost certainly a real one. Congressman,

447
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: do you find yourself looking at what people are saying

448
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: in your Twitter mentions? Too? Sure? I mean, not like

449
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, not. But you know, the reason is because

450
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: it gives you a sense of criticism. It gives you

451
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: a sense of perspectives of those who disagree. And I

452
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: find it helpful and sometimes I'll engage to the consternation

453
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: of people on my team. But I do look at it,

454
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: you know, maybe in the morning or in the at

455
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 1: night before before sleeping, and I doesn't help you sleep.

456
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: I want to I want to talk in a minute

457
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: about the big issue on Capitol Hill right now, which

458
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: is the fight over or a pipeline reform. That's the

459
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: kind of the side deal that went along with Manchiscin.

460
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: But first I want to talk about something that's lighting up,

461
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: probably your mentions a little bit. This morning. We did

462
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: an earlier segment on the New York Times investigation into

463
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: congressional stock trading. You were mentioned in that report as

464
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: not somebody who had done any stock trading yourself, but

465
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 1: as somebody whose wife had traded some stocks that were

466
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 1: under the jurisdiction of a committee that you served on.

467
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: I think one of the companies was under investigation or

468
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: potential investigation at the time. Give us give us your

469
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: response to that. To the New York Times article well

470
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: as a New York Times reporter said, my wife has

471
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: assets apart from before we were married, and it's almost

472
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: like an index fund. It's a trust that's highly diversified.

473
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,719
Speaker 1: And I think the New York Times reporter said it

474
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: is like an index fund. So in mind you she

475
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: doesn't make those trades and she doesn't know about the trade.

476
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: It's an independent trust that's invested broadly. And I think

477
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: that's why there's no conflict now. I support the Bannings

478
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: Stop Act and will vote for whatever comes to the House.

479
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: But I think my case is very different. I'm just

480
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead. Is it a blind trust? I mean,

481
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: why not? Why not make it a blind trust? And

482
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: is that what the best law would do? Or where

483
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: the best law you know, require particular just indexes that

484
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: members of Congress. What is the solution here? I think

485
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: there should be a prohibition on members trading. I think

486
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: when you have a case like a spouse is coming

487
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: in with independent wealth whose family is tied up with

488
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: all of this, so it doesn't just affect her, it

489
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: affects her family, her sisters, others. I think that having

490
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: a an ethics requirement that the person isn't trading themselves,

491
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: that it is highly diversified, bans any any conflicts. But

492
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: I will vote for whatever. You know, I don't get

493
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: to write the Law'll vote for whatever comes that comes there.

494
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: But I do think that in our case there is

495
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: no complaint. I think, you know, I can't be saying

496
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: beyond that there should be conflicts. I don't think I

497
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: should be telling my wife's family how to restructure their

498
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: finances other than to make sure that there is no conflict. Yeah,

499
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, it's really night and day between

500
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: your case study and the example of someone like Paul Pelosi.

501
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: There's a very clear distinction there, and I wanted to

502
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: get into that a little bit. Just one more question

503
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: on this topic, because Ryan and I were discussing earlier

504
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: how the New York Times investigation kind of carved out

505
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: the Ways and Means committee by sort of throwing its

506
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: hands up in the air and saying, well, there's no

507
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: realistic way to really look into this because the information

508
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: is so general and so broad that it's very difficult

509
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: to separate and to disentangle the variables. You know, who

510
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: would have known what and how would that have influenced this,

511
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: this and that. As you mentioned, you think a blanket

512
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: prohibition on members trade is important, and safeguards for spouses

513
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: are important, and what should diversification one thing, of course,

514
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: and blind trusts something to that extent. What is the

515
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: risk so that people understand somebody who's sitting on ways

516
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: and means? For example, you've been in Congress, you kind

517
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: of know the sort of information that comes your way,

518
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: even if there is no investigation, even if you're not

519
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: on a committee, you'll probably get information. What is the risk,

520
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: you know, in other words, why do you support these

521
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: the blanket prohibition in the first place. Well, I think

522
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: there's a risk to trust and in terms of our

523
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: people sitting on committees with jurisdiction and then taking into

524
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: consideration their own stock portfolio. Of course, in my case,

525
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: I have literally been one of the only voices voting

526
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: against over spending on defense. Have taken on big farm,

527
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: I have taken on big oil, and so the idea

528
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: that a highly diversified index fond of my wife, which

529
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: he had before marriage, would have any influence on me

530
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: is refuted by actually my record, and I think there's

531
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: no conflict. I will say this though, and I say

532
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: this supporting a stock band. The big influence in Congress,

533
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: in my view, is much more campaign finance. What's actually

534
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: motivating people's policies is the fear of super pac funding,

535
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: is the fear of campaign contributions. Is the money coming

536
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: in from defense contractors, for insurance companies, from big pharma,

537
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: from special in trist lobbies. So I support this. I

538
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: think it's better to have a stock treating band than not.

539
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: But we are kidding ourselves of that is really the

540
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: issue that's going to solve Congress to care about things

541
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: like Medicare for all, a Green New Deal, pre public college,

542
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: increasing minimum wage. That is the issue of dark money

543
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: in politics. Yeah, it just scratches the surface of that problem.

544
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: And what I've heard from some members of Congress, and

545
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you've heard this as well, well, is

546
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: that there's sort of an unspoken arrangement on Capitol Hill

547
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: now that says that where leadership says, look, we cannot

548
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: politically vote for an increase in salaries. You will we

549
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: will get crushed at the at the ballot box if

550
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: we you know, the thirty second ad rights itself. This

551
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: person went and gave voted themselves a raise. But look,

552
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: and the unspoken deal is, look, you're gonna make You're

553
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: going to outperform the market because of the access that

554
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: you have to information. Is that a is that unspoken

555
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: arrangement kind of widely understood to be the thing that's

556
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: in place, and is what's causing the resistance because now

557
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, we're not gonna get a raise and

558
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: also we're going to lose out on this. No, because

559
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: I don't think most people beat the market. I haven't

560
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: looked at my Actually, I think usually being in an

561
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: index fun way out performs the people picking individual stock.

562
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,239
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't don't think that's what it is.

563
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: I think we should have a vote. I mean I've

564
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: been I was an early uh CO sponsor on the bill.

565
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: I think there are different cases of complex cases, I

566
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: mean in terms of spouses and how that should be handled,

567
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: or people who have independent careers. Let's say you could

568
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: say someone is a spouse has an independent career, but

569
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: we can resolve those and there should be a bill.

570
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 1: And no bill is going to be perfect, I mean

571
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: it's not, but overall we should we should pass something.

572
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: But I really don't think honestly that it is sort

573
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: of greed that is holding this back. It may just

574
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: be that people don't see the urgency of how much

575
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: of an issue this is with the public. So on

576
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: the question of NEPA reform of pipeline reform, uh where

577
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: where where do you stand on on this kind of

578
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: game of chicken that's going on between progressives and mansion

579
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: and House leadership. Should should this be broken into a

580
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: separate bill? And if it's not, would you would you

581
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: vote down the the the c are the continuing resolution

582
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: in order to opt this pipeline reform from going forward.

583
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: I would vote it down. And it's not just pipeline

584
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: perform it's a gutting of ANPA. I mean you are

585
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: basically saying you can't have any community have more claims

586
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: after one hundred and fifty days. Well, a lot of

587
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: times it takes far more than one hundred and fifty

588
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: days for a community to figure out the negative impact.

589
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: You're going to allow the President and the executive branch

590
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: to permit and help create fossil fuel infrastructure where communities,

591
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: frontline communities had already won. We're winning ninety percent, and

592
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: now the executive branch is going to get to overrule

593
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: judicial ruling. So this is not the permitting where we need.

594
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: We can have a thoughtful conversation about how we build

595
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: more clean energy battery plans, solar and wind in this country,

596
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: and that may be challenges in terms of the impact

597
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: on that on endangered species, and then we can discuss

598
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: what the trade off is between building green and negative

599
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: impacts of doing that. And I am fordable looking at

600
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: a healthy permitting reform to be able to build green,

601
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: but I'm not for a permitting reform that's going to

602
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: allow us to build more fossil fuel infrastructure. This is

603
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: not the permitting reform we need. What is your sense

604
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: of where, like many people on the House side might

605
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: stand when it comes to voting against the CR in

606
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: this case, do you think that there would be a

607
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: threat to the point where people have to come to

608
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,239
Speaker 1: the table. Do you get the sense that others are

609
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: willing to vote against it? Well, I know that Bernie

610
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: Sanders has said he would vote against it. I said

611
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: I would vote against it. I think other people have

612
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: said they prefer a clean CR. I don't know how

613
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: many people have come on record to say, no, we

614
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: won't vote for this, but they should because the challenge

615
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: is not those who are not going to vote for

616
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: a CR with which is going to gut environmental laws.

617
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: The challenges Why aren't we getting a clean CR. That's

618
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: the problem of shutting down government. So I think we

619
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: should be very clear that we will vote for a

620
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: clean CR to keep government open. But if they don't

621
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: send us a clean SAR, that's where the blame lies

622
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: for shutting down government. And I think we would then

623
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: get a clean CR. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I

624
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: don't think that Democrat Democratic leadership would shut down the

625
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: government over this heading into the midterms. Is that your sense,

626
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine them doing it. I can, and

627
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: I think this is a case where the person who

628
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: links first is the person who is not going to

629
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: get their way. And look and Ron, you know this.

630
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: I've been pretty reasonable in the Progressive Caucus. I'm the

631
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: the one who's worked with Senator Manchuld to try to

632
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: get a deal. I've been the person who said let's

633
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: get something done for infrastructure. I've been with chips, I

634
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: worked with Republicans and Democrats on that. So I'm not

635
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: one of the a bomb thrower, even though I'm very

636
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: strongly progressive on medicure for all and free college and

637
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: fifteen dollars wage. And I'm saying this is the time

638
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: that we have the leverage that we should be very

639
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: clear and bold and say we're not going to vote

640
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,479
Speaker 1: for it. And if thirty forty members said that, I

641
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: just don't think it's going to be part of the deal.

642
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: And we could say we're open to a thoughtful approach

643
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: next Congress, but we're not going to be rushed into

644
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: doing something that isn't going to end up increasing battery production,

645
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: solar production, wind production, but it is going to be

646
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: increasing fossil fuel infrastructure. This is not the conversation that

647
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: we need on permitting reform. I'm really interested to see

648
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: what happens with us, because I think it is true

649
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: that progressives have the leverage not to blink, and we'll

650
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: see if they do it well, we'll see Kyres and Conna.

651
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: Really appreciate you joining us on this first one. I

652
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: appreciate it always. I'm looking forward to your show, and

653
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: I really appreciate your voice. Thank you so much, sir.

654
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: Thank you. Hi. I'm Matt Stoler, author of monopoly focused

655
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: newsletter Big and an Answer, Trust policy analyst. Now I

656
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: have a great segment for you today on this Big Breakdown.

657
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about credit cards and the payment

658
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: system in the US, how we pay for things, which

659
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: when you compare it to almost everywhere else in the

660
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: world pretty much sucks. And I'm going to explain how

661
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: part of it has to do with those nifty reward

662
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: points for credit card and why they're a little bit

663
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: of a scam. There are means for credit card companies

664
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: and banks to maintain market power and overcharge us, even

665
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: though they look kind of cool when you're a consumer. Okay,

666
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: so let's start with how you pay for things in

667
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: other countries. I'm going to pick a country that is

668
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: not typically known for its high tech sector, for good government,

669
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: for its ease of use in paying for things. I'm

670
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: going to pick the country of Brazil, tropical paradise, but

671
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: tends to be considered corrupt. However, in twenty twenty, the

672
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 1: Brazilian Central Bank did something remarkable. They introduced something called

673
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: an app called Peaks, which lets anyone pay for things

674
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: using a phone, basically for free. Now, it was a

675
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: tremendous success, and today Peaks is not only more heavily

676
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: used by than credit cards and debit cards in Brazil,

677
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: but it's so popular that the President of Brazil, Balsonaro,

678
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 1: is running ads for his re election campaign showcasing the app.

679
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: Imagine that it's a political success story, so powerful that

680
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: the resident of Brazil is saying, I got you a

681
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: payments app, and that's why you should re elect me.

682
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: Beggars in the street actually are getting more money from

683
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: Peaks than cash. It's that convenient and that cheap. Now,

684
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 1: I picked Brazil. But it's not just Brazil. Kenya, for example,

685
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: has had a mobile payment system that is better than

686
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: the US system called Impasia for almost ten years. India

687
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,479
Speaker 1: has a real time payment system that is as good

688
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: or better than that. In Brazil and across Europe, the

689
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: idea of writing a check or using a credit card

690
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: with a signature is just plain weird. It's anachronistic. It's

691
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: like living in the nineteen seventies. But in the US

692
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: our system is slow, it's expensive. If you're a merchant,

693
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: you have to buy you a payment processing machine. So

694
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: it's bulky. It's just bad. Okay, So this begs a question.

695
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: You know, we have high technology in this country. Why

696
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: haven't we moved to a better system. Well, the reason

697
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: there's a number of reasons for it. One is we're

698
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: just used to credit cards. We built that high tech

699
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: system which was high time in the sixties. But more importantly,

700
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 1: credit cards. This whole system in the US is insanely

701
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: profitable for banks and credit card issuers, roughly four and

702
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: a half times more lucrative for the lender than any

703
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: other form of credit. And if you add up the

704
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 1: two main streams of revenue of credit cards. The industry

705
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: generates about two hundred and fifty seven billion dollars in

706
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: revenue every single year. That's seven hundred and eighty dollars

707
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: for each person in America, I mean, man, woman, and

708
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: child every year, and that is a lot of revenue

709
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: to protect. Now, of course, it's not like they're just

710
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: generating this revenue. They're getting this revenue from us, So

711
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: it's not like, oh, this is a job creating thing. No,

712
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: it's just kind of there get a lot of revenue,

713
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: whereas in other countries people don't have to pay for

714
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: this because it's kind of done more efficiently by the

715
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: government in many cases. Okay, so who protects this revenue

716
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: stream and how does the American payment system work. Let's

717
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: start with the basics. Credit cards are two products combined

718
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: into one. The first is access to a global payments

719
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: network that lets a customer and a merchant transact. You

720
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: know these networks. The payment network is super useful is

721
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: MasterCard and Visa. You can pay it millions of establishment

722
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: around the world. You buy a line, you often don't

723
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: have to convert to local currency. If you're a merchant,

724
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: you can get paid by hundreds of millions of people,

725
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: and for consumers it seems mostly free. All you need

726
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: is to carry around a piece of plastic. But it's

727
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 1: not free. In America, merchants have to pay between one

728
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: and a half to three and a half percent to

729
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: middleman on every single transaction, sometimes more actually, and that

730
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: amounts to between sixty one billion dollars to one hundred

731
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: and thirty seven billion dollars a year, and that amount

732
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: of money makes everything that you buy a little bit

733
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: more expensive. These swipe fees, which go not only to Visa, MasterCard,

734
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: or American Express that's the third one, but also to

735
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: issuing banks and processors, are essentially a private sales tax.

736
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: Now Visa and MasterCard controls seventy percent of the market.

737
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: Last year, credit card networks raise their swipe fee prices

738
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: to merchants by twenty four percent. And I say that

739
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: and at that amount, and that's important because it shows

740
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: that they have immense market power. You can raise prices

741
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: massively even though you're already making money. It means that

742
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: your customers really don't have other options. So where does

743
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: this market power come from. Well, merchants, even big ones,

744
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: cannot afford to not accept Visa and MasterCard so they

745
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: have to in turn accept whatever terms they are given

746
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 1: by Visa and MasterCard to accept their cards. Now, one

747
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: key to this market power are credit card rewards, which

748
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: are the points you get when you spend money through

749
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: a certain card. And I'll get back to why that

750
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 1: makes it so that merchants have to accept these cards

751
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: in a second. Okay, these rewards recycle about twenty billion

752
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: dollars a year, mostly going to high income customers and

753
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: coming from the poor. So what's happening here is that

754
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: these swipe fees that merchants pay, some of that money,

755
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: not the majority of it, but some of that money

756
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: is returned to customers in the form of reward fees.

757
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 1: But actually it's a recycling mechanism that taxes the poor

758
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: and rewards the wealthy. This is from a quote from

759
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: the Boston Fed, which says that the lowest income households

760
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 1: pay about twenty one dollars a year in the highest

761
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: income households receive about seven hundred and fifty billion dollars

762
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: a year from the system. It's a wealth inequality generating machine. Now, naturally,

763
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: the credit card networks in banks, they keep a lot

764
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: of the swipe fee money, but they pass enough of

765
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: it back to US card holders to make cardholders more

766
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: loyal to our credit cards. Now, almost everyone would be

767
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: better off if swipe fees were lower than they are,

768
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, if this whole transfer mechanism didn't happen. But

769
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,479
Speaker 1: that's not obvious to users of credit cards, who see

770
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: a direct cash benefit reward benefit, and so that ensures

771
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: that they will continue to use their card and therefore

772
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: that merchants will have to accept their cards. Merchants are

773
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: largely powerless in this arrangement. If you don't accept Visa

774
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: or MasterCard, then a lot of customers just won't be

775
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: able to pay for things at your store or your establishment.

776
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: So Visa, American Express, and MasterCard even prevent competition between

777
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: the three networks. They have what are called anti steering

778
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: provisions in their contracts with merchants, so merchants are not

779
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: even allowed to distinguish between different cards to their customers.

780
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: It's why you don't see signs that say use Visa

781
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: and get a discount in local stores, or you don't

782
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: see the credit card fee broken out separately. This is

783
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: even though Visa's swipe fees are actually cheaper than American

784
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: Express they're not allowed to say that. Now, such a practice,

785
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: these anti steering provisions should be illegal as anti trust violations,

786
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: but they are not. In fact, there was a big

787
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: anti trust case, a very important case, and after years

788
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: of wrangling, in twenty eighteen, the Supreme Court basically got

789
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: it anti trust law and legalized this particular practice. Now.

790
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: The second revenue stream for credit cards comes from credit

791
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: products that allows a consumer to take out a short

792
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: term loan by carrying a monthly balance. There's value here.

793
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: Sometimes you do need a short loan. It's convenient, but

794
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: Americans overpay dramatically for the privilege, roughly one hundred and

795
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars a year in total. Some of these

796
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: this overpayment is in the form of fees like annual fees,

797
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: fees for cash advances and balance transfers, rebates, minimum finance charges,

798
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: over the limit fees, late payment charges, and so on

799
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: and so forth. In this part of the industry, as

800
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: with swipe fees, there is also a market power at work.

801
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: That's what happens when people are overpaying. It's because there's

802
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: a lack of competition. There's something wrong with the market. Now.

803
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 1: Since two thousand and five, there have been six firms

804
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: who control roughly two thirds of total balances. JP Morgan

805
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: City Bank, Bank of America, Capital One, Discover an American Express.

806
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to show you a sort of complicated chart,

807
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: but it's basically the profit margin for credit cards. And

808
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 1: you see it has gone way up since twenty eleven.

809
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: According to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which is one

810
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: of our bank regulators, from twenty fifteen to nineteen, the

811
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: average assessed interest rate on credit cards increased by more

812
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: than twenty percent. So that's from thirteen point seven percent

813
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: to sixteen point nine percent. And this was when the

814
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 1: prime rate, which is linked to what the Federal Reserve

815
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: gives to Wall Street in terms of their what Wall

816
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: Street can borrow up, went up by just two point

817
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: twenty five percent. So that's what happens when there's no

818
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: competition for borrowing, just the the interest rate and fees

819
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: go up. Now how does this work, Well, there are

820
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: a number of mechanism mechanisms that credit card banks use

821
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: to block competition and get away with such a high margin.

822
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: So first, some banks withhold information to credit bureaus about

823
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 1: borrow repayments, which makes it hard for competitors to try

824
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: to lure those customers away with better offers. So second,

825
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: it's actually hard to get the price of credit card

826
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 1: interest rates. You often have to apply to get that price,

827
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: and that means when you apply for a credit card,

828
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: you get a credit check which reduces your credit score.

829
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: So shopping across offers just doesn't make sense. What happens

830
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: is consumers look at reward and annual fees, which is

831
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: what credit card banks want them to look at, instead

832
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: of interest rates, which is what matters. So it's just

833
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: hard to get the price. Now. Third, it's hard to

834
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: refine finance a credit card balance and switch cards. And fourth,

835
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: credit card banks use sort of a lot of hidden

836
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: fees that are called junk fees. So for example, fourteen

837
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: billion dollars in late fee penalties alone in twenty nineteen,

838
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: especially on people with worse credit. Now, I could go

839
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: on and on about the problems here, the problems with

840
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: credit cards and payments. There's all sorts of surveillance issues

841
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: and issues with who needs be some MasterCard decide to

842
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: kick out of the payment system, do process questions. But

843
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: there are even monetary policy consequences. So for instance, when

844
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: we hear in the news that the Federal Reserve is

845
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: cutting or lowering interest rates. What they don't say is

846
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: that it is interest rates for Wall Street. You and

847
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: I with credit cards do not actually get charged less

848
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: money when interest rates go down. If there were competition,

849
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: we would because there's a market for money. But there

850
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 1: isn't competition, so the credit card banks can just sort

851
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: of keep the prices high. Now, when interest rates go up,

852
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: of course they raise their interest rates, but they have

853
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: market power. Now, the good news here is that none

854
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: of this is inevitable. It's all fixable, and there is

855
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: actually policy movement. So Senator Dick Durbin, who's a Democrat,

856
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 1: along with Republican Senator Roger Marshall, just released a bill

857
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: to foster more competition among credit card networks. So that's

858
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: on the merchant side, and the politics here is not

859
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: unstoppable either. Every merchant in the country, from firms like

860
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: Walmart and Amazon to the small merchants, are angry about

861
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: excess fees that they must pay. So the politics here

862
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: are not actually insurmountable. Also, bank regulators at the Consumer

863
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 1: Financial Protection Bureau are investigating these practices, and they're asking

864
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: the six big credit card banks for information about potentially

865
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 1: unfair practices. They're also using their authority to block junk

866
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: fees by banks and considering ways to make it easier

867
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: to switch credit cards. This is having good, good consequences.

868
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: I found a story from bank Rate sort of showing that,

869
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: and it's asking will your credit card late fees go

870
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: down despite inflation? And that's good and that is actually

871
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: the power of regulators when they work on our behalf.

872
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: But most importantly, the best news is that the Federal

873
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: Reserve itself and I'm not a huge FED fan, but

874
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: this is very good are actually trying to build a

875
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: real time payments network called fed now, and fed now

876
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: is as close as the US has gotten to something

877
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: like Brazil's Peaks network. It is supposed to launch next year.

878
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: It will enable cash transfers and bill pay that settles instantly. Now,

879
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: how doing the government do fed now makes a lot

880
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: of sense because payments are a public service. If I

881
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: hand you a twenty dollars bill or write a check

882
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: for twenty dollars, you get all twenty dollars, no special

883
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 1: equipment needed. The government takes care of all the counterfeiting risk.

884
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: That is a public system. So our payment system is

885
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: in part a public system. One of the original purposes

886
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: of the Federal Reserve was that it would actually do this.

887
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: The Central Bank would actually do this. For the high

888
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: tech payment technology of the time of nineteen fourteen, which

889
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 1: was checks, and it worked. After the FED was created,

890
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: checks cleared at what's called par which means that if

891
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: you wrote a twenty dollars check, you'd get twenty dollars.

892
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: And before the FED actually started check clearing, banks would

893
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: take a fee for cashing a check from a different bank,

894
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: very similar to a credit card network. Now, the fact

895
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: that credit card companies and banks charge each of US

896
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: seven hundred and eighty dollars a year is a relic

897
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixties technology, lax competition, policy making over the

898
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: last forty years on political corruption. Even now, big banks

899
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: are lobbying to destroy bank regulators who are trying to

900
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: stop them, and systems like FED now. And this brings

901
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: me finally to something that I think a lot of

902
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: you are going to have questions about, which is the

903
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: role of crypto now. A lot of the people in

904
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: the crypto or fintech world look at the inefficiency of

905
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: payments and say we need to disrupt it with new

906
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 1: technologies and business model business models. But if that were so,

907
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: we would see the same efficiency all over the world

908
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 1: and you would need technology to address it. But in reality,

909
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: this inefficiency is increasingly just an American problem, not a

910
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: worldwide one, and it doesn't have to do with the

911
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: technology problem. It has to do with dominant firms maintaining

912
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: their power using political influence and monopolization. Where there are functional,

913
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: effective governments, payment systems are quick and efficient, and where

914
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: there aren't, payment systems are bad and clunky. So like

915
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: it or not, this is a problem we actually have

916
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: to fix through politics and government. Everyone else has and

917
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: there's no reason that America can't. So thanks for watching

918
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: this Big Breakdown on the Breaking Points channel, and if

919
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: you'd like to know more about big business and how

920
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: our economy really works, you can sign up below for

921
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: my market power focused newsletter Big in the description. Thanks

922
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: and have a good one.