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Speaker 1: Let's rank every Mets manager on a tier list. We're

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Speaker 1: not doing interim guys, We're doing legitimate Mets hired managers.

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Speaker 1: Got every single one of them on here. If you

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Speaker 1: want to make a tierless for yourself, I'll leave a

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Speaker 1: link in the description so you guys can go ahead

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Speaker 1: and make your own send to us on Twitter or Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Going through this, there are not a lot of great ones,

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Speaker 1: but the way Tearless work s tier is the best.

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Speaker 1: F is the worst, and we're gonna start off with

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Speaker 1: an absolute banger here, James in Art Howe. All right,

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Speaker 1: hell man, this is like, uh, this is the first

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Speaker 1: manager I really remember, and it's convenience as the first manager,

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Speaker 1: I really hate it, just because it felt those teams

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Speaker 1: were terrible. So it's hard to blame Art coming off

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Speaker 1: those coming off those Miracle A's teams, but wow, it's

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Speaker 1: just a bad vibe for him in New York. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he won forty two percent of the games that he managed,

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Speaker 1: which is just so so bad. Three different GMS in

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Speaker 1: the two seasons that he managed the Mets, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that happened wasn't like totally his fault.

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Speaker 1: He definitely wasn't a good manager. Also kind of crazy

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Speaker 1: how bad the will Ponds were as an owner. They

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent leaked his firing to the media like

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Speaker 1: weeks before the season ended, but we're like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: We'll let him finish the season. So he was dead

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Speaker 1: man walking at one point, and they gave him so

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Speaker 1: much money at the time to be the manager four years,

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Speaker 1: nine point four million dollars. The worst thing he ever

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Speaker 1: did though, he was he was the kazmat Suie thing, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was, I mean, but that was also again kind

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Speaker 1: of the front office's fault with it seems like they

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Speaker 1: promise Kasmatsoui shortstop and then in doing so they took

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Speaker 1: their dynamic young short stop pose that race off the position. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: put him at second base. Also insanely tied to like

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Speaker 1: so many other Mets managers that we're gonna talk about here.

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Speaker 1: He technically got his first ever coaching job under Bobby

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Speaker 1: Valentine in Texas with the Rangers in nineteen eighty six,

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Speaker 1: and then when he got the Astros job, he was

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Speaker 1: fired and Terry Collins took over in nineteen ninety three.

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Speaker 1: That is really funny, look at you with the fun

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Speaker 1: facts here, but uh horrible, well just a legitimately one

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Speaker 1: of the worst managers ever. I think he has to

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Speaker 1: go in F Yeah. I guess there's the thing is

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Speaker 1: when you look at these other guys, there are so

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Speaker 1: many that much worse. Like I could I could hear

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Speaker 1: an argument for our hownd deep, but I support the

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Speaker 1: F Yeah. I mean I think also too for me,

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Speaker 1: Like I loved Bobby Valentine. We're gonna talk about next.

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Speaker 1: That was that was the first manager of our lifetime.

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Speaker 1: I loved that two thousand Mets team. I loved just

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Speaker 1: rooting for those guys and him being the guy after

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Speaker 1: Bobby Valentine was like, ugh, like what a loser this

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Speaker 1: guy was, and he was supposed to be like the

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Speaker 1: guy that saved the Mets from kind of falling off

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Speaker 1: like they did towards the end of Bobby V's time.

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Speaker 1: But now let's talk about Bobby Valentine, James, I mean,

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Speaker 1: Bobby Valentine is is kind of everything you want for

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Speaker 1: a Mets team. That those late nineties teams, they were

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Speaker 1: really good, like uber talented teams, but there was still

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Speaker 1: this like Hodgepodge adds who those rosters kind of like

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Speaker 1: the not like littlegends that could, but it was a

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Speaker 1: little bit chaotic for them to get the success they had,

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Speaker 1: and Bobby was like the Lightning Rods a rally rather

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Speaker 1: all time all time players manager. Yes, third most wins

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Speaker 1: in Mets history five hundred and thirty six, which also

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Speaker 1: is crazy that he's the third most wins and he

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Speaker 1: was there for really not that long. But yeah, the

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Speaker 1: two thousand year wasn't greble making it to the World Series.

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Speaker 1: They had the crazy playoff runs in the past. He

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Speaker 1: is one of I believe two Mets managers ever. In

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Speaker 1: the only two times a Mets history that they've made

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Speaker 1: the playoffs in back to back years, Bobby Valentine was

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Speaker 1: manager for one of those times. Absolutely insane, basically the

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Speaker 1: only real time yeah, basically well yeah, basically the only

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Speaker 1: real time. He also had the classic Valentine disguise after

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Speaker 1: he got ejected in the game, where he came back

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Speaker 1: into the dugout with the mustache and the sunglasses on,

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Speaker 1: which was crazy and did you know I got fun

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Speaker 1: facts for some of these guys too. Bobby Valentine got

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Speaker 1: promoted to Mets manager in nineteen ninety six after doing

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Speaker 1: such a great job managing the Norfolk tie down in

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Speaker 1: the Miners. They called Bobby V up at the end

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Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety six. I always kind of love that

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Speaker 1: when that happens. There was also Bobby Valentine's third most

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Speaker 1: ejections in Mets history. I'm excited to talk about the

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Speaker 1: guys who are fourth most ejections, third most, third most,

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Speaker 1: third most, which is always fun there and something else

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Speaker 1: that's going to be a similar run for a lot

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Speaker 1: of these Mets managers. A lot of these guys did

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Speaker 1: not manage in Major League Baseball after the Mets. Bobby

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Speaker 1: is one of the guys that did. It took all

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Speaker 1: long time from the get of the job, and that

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Speaker 1: went so horribly when it did happen. But the Mets

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Speaker 1: wind up being the last stop for a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of different managers. Yeah, and also I like

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Speaker 1: that Bobby V went down swinging to when he got fired.

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Speaker 1: He just went at the will Poms. He went at

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Speaker 1: Steve Phillips. He said, Steve Phillips invited him to a

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Speaker 1: father's son something going on at their church, and Steve

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Speaker 1: Phillips showed up late to something that he invited Bobby

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Speaker 1: Valentine to at his church. I loved Bobby V. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we can put him in s because again,

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Speaker 1: that's gotta be saved for the few guys that actually

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Speaker 1: ever did win anything with this team. But I think

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Speaker 1: Bobby goes an a. Yeah, Bobby also was just he

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Speaker 1: was cast with one of the worst free agent periods

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Speaker 1: ever by any team in the history I think of

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Speaker 1: sports before the two thousand and two season, when the

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Speaker 1: Mets brought inn Mo Vaughn, Roberto Wailamar Jeremy Bernitz in

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Speaker 1: one shot and those guys were combined almost negative war asrio.

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Speaker 1: Was that with Bobby V? Or was that art how No,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two, that was Bobby V's last year.

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Speaker 1: That's what got fired. Yes, yes, yes, our came the

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Speaker 1: next year and again expensive bad team that even somehow

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Speaker 1: found to why the play worse. Yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 1: tough one. But I as sad as it is. That's

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Speaker 1: one of the best Mets managers in our history. Another

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Speaker 1: fun thing about Bobby V. He had two different stints

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Speaker 1: managing the Chiblote Marines. Yeah, he went pick in Japan. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he went there right before he came back to the

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Speaker 1: Mets bench. He was there in nineteen ninety five, and

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Speaker 1: then after right after his fire from the Mets, took

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Speaker 1: a year off, two years off, and was in Japan

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Speaker 1: again two thousand and four to two thousand and nine

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Speaker 1: before somehow getting the Red Sox job and kind of

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Speaker 1: letting that clubhouse go go astray. All time guy, I

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Speaker 1: would love to have a beer with Bobby Valentine high

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Speaker 1: on the list all time guy. I love to have

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Speaker 1: a beer with probably even which says a lot the

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Speaker 1: highest on this list, and there's a lot of guys

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Speaker 1: I'd like to have a beer with on this list specifically,

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Speaker 1: But uh, he was a mayor to at one point

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Speaker 1: and the ad I think of holy Cross at one point,

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Speaker 1: like a crazy life. I know he's run for a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff in Connecticut. I don't know how many.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many of those things he's won, Okay,

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Speaker 1: but I do know that he was a big time

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Speaker 1: at a holy Cross as well. All Right, that's enough

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Speaker 1: of Bobby be Let's talk about someone that I think

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Speaker 1: we're going to have a very different take than a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. Buck Showalter, Buck Show Walter. This is

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Speaker 1: also funny for us because this is Buckshaw Walter and

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Speaker 1: Mark and James. We all worked for the Mets at

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Speaker 1: the same time. Twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: well got our checks from Steve Gohen all got checks

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Speaker 1: from Steve Cohen same maybe possibly the same bi weekly

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Speaker 1: right there, but semi weekly. It was I I really

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Speaker 1: really did not like Buck Showalter as a manager. I

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Speaker 1: thought there were so many instances where he made bad

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Speaker 1: bullpend decisions, didn't bring on the young player as well enough,

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Speaker 1: openly feuded with our general manager, which is very fun

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Speaker 1: to be a part of the on the inside, but

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Speaker 1: it was a I could not stand this guy at

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Speaker 1: the Helm. Yeah, when they hired him, didn't like it.

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Speaker 1: It felt I don't want to tone Deff's not the

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Speaker 1: right word, because that would mean he's a bad guy.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Buck's a bad guy. I think Buck's great. Another.

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Speaker 1: I would love to get beers with Buck Showalter. He's

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Speaker 1: a guy. It seems like again he's almos He doesn't

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Speaker 1: know any were saying this stuff. Yes, all time baseball guy,

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Speaker 1: but it just felt like why, like no one's hired

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Speaker 1: this guy in ten plus years or in five six years.

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Speaker 1: He went out horrendously with the Orioles, made one of

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Speaker 1: the worst managerial decisions ever in a playoff game, not

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Speaker 1: bringing in Zach Brittany and going Ubaldo Jmenez, Like it

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Speaker 1: didn't really make sense outside of that was a name

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Speaker 1: that maybe Steve Cohen knew and that's why they hired him.

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Speaker 1: This also was like the time when Steve Cohen seemed

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Speaker 1: like he was much more overtly involved of the day

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Speaker 1: to day decisions that were happening in this organization, relative

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Speaker 1: to what's happened in the last few years, especially since

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Speaker 1: David Serrenceis took over. I was cleaning out my room

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Speaker 1: recentlym getting ready to move soon, and I found that

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Speaker 1: Buck Showalter pull over they gave away in that September

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Speaker 1: game in twenty twenty three when the team was dreadful,

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Speaker 1: way too much fanfare about the manager. I want my

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Speaker 1: manager quiet, not like one of the like your manager

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Speaker 1: should be a face of the team because he like

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Speaker 1: runs it. But like they had Buck Showalter cups in

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Speaker 1: the stadium and they were doing giveaways like it kind

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Speaker 1: of kind of got crazy for a guy who again

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Speaker 1: when the Mets needed that's like, cause he did a

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Speaker 1: lot good. The Mets won a lot of games. Of course,

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Speaker 1: in that first year, but like when push came to shove,

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Speaker 1: it seemed like he could never actually get that team

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Speaker 1: back on track when they collapsed at the end of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and especially something else that was cool

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Speaker 1: at Buck Showalter. My two favorite stats I'd like to

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Speaker 1: share about him. One is that Buck Showalter was fired

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Speaker 1: from a job or either of us were born, so

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Speaker 1: after nineteen ninety five season. He also kind of wrongfully

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Speaker 1: fired from that from that year managing the Yankees. Also, shockingly,

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Speaker 1: he always talks about the facts like I'm just sitting

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Speaker 1: a home I found out I got firedraz But then

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Speaker 1: there was a run where all these teams that the

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Speaker 1: first three teams that dropped Bucks show Walter, the Yankees

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five, the Diambacks two thousand, and Texas Rangers

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and six all found instant success when

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Speaker 1: they dumped him. Right the Yankees won the World Series

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Speaker 1: began their dynasty the year after he left. The Diambacks

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Speaker 1: miraculously won a World Series the year after he left

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Speaker 1: the Texas Rangers. It took two years. Once Round Washington

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Speaker 1: got the show going there they were him back to

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Speaker 1: back World Series in nine. You could say that ten eleven,

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Speaker 1: the Mets went to the NLCS the year immediately after

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Speaker 1: Buck got fired from there, so like there's something something

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Speaker 1: happens when he leaves. I think I've got respect for Buck.

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Speaker 1: I don't like the way that he manages the game.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that he fits in modern baseball. There

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Speaker 1: were a lot of ups and downs of them. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna put him in f again because the Mets

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Speaker 1: made the playoffs, they had some good seasons. I say still,

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Speaker 1: I think he's a solid sea And like, there was

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Speaker 1: a situation twenty twenty three where it was clear the

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Speaker 1: Mets wanted to get some run for the younger players,

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Speaker 1: and Buck continuously was playing Luiskior May over either Brett

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Speaker 1: Bay or Mark Fiantros a third. There was that situation

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Speaker 1: where Francisco Alvarez stuff yeah for Cus Gulvers was losing

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Speaker 1: playing time moving around the line up every single day.

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Speaker 1: There was in twenty twenty two when the Mets season

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Speaker 1: really ended, when they had that huge series victory over

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers right the turn of the month from August September,

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Speaker 1: where the Mets apparently celebrate a regular season series a

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Speaker 1: little bit too much, and then completely flopped after that,

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Speaker 1: and Buck could not steer the ship to get them

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Speaker 1: back on track as a at the time, a what

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Speaker 1: like twenty year major league managerial veteran. And that was

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Speaker 1: the thing that I think probably made us dislike Buck

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Speaker 1: more than it was actually deserved. Was that the polarization

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Speaker 1: of the fan base of what kind of manager he was.

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Speaker 1: They gave like there's a certain fan base that's like,

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Speaker 1: they gave him all the credit, but then when things

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Speaker 1: go wrong, it was never his fault. All of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: this like steady veteran manager. It wasn't his fault. Why

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Speaker 1: the Mets couldn't figure it out for a month and

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Speaker 1: a half and crumbled at the end of the season

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Speaker 1: and also disappeared in twenty twenty three. And really good

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Speaker 1: news Mark for you, I and everybody watching this video.

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Speaker 1: We're all tied with as many victories in the Championship

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Speaker 1: Series with Buck Showalter. That's true, we all have zero.

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Speaker 1: And that was the other thing when people were like,

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Speaker 1: this is an established manager, he's a winner, Like where

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Speaker 1: has King of Manager of the Year? Though King? Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think he has two or three of them or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Also with Buck, it's fun how much

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Speaker 1: he hates the Mets, and I respect the hell out

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Speaker 1: of that. I respect the most out of that. Every

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Speaker 1: single time Buck Showalter has a chance to dump on

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Speaker 1: David Stearns the current mess regime, he goes on either

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Speaker 1: and will be network foul territory. He's doing his media

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Speaker 1: availability and he's letting everybody know he does not like

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Speaker 1: the way they're running things now. And that's why you

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Speaker 1: love Buck. Like again, I love a managing any team

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Speaker 1: that's not mine, and also I love a good vendetta

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it's just that's good hate. You don't

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Speaker 1: get that a lot of days. Sorry, talk about another

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Speaker 1: Met legender, Bud Harrelson. But Harrelson managed the Mets from

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Speaker 1: what years do I have written down? Where is it

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Speaker 1: on my notes? Good? Good job by me. Bud Harrelson

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nineteen ninety one, short stint, and I think

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Speaker 1: like he wasn't the worst based on all the stuff

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Speaker 1: that I've seen, Like they started off strong in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety one, but then collapsed towards the end, and they

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Speaker 1: kind of had a quick act to Bud. The nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety was a nineteen or ninety one where the Mets.

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Speaker 1: It was just they had like a ninety one season

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Speaker 1: missed the playoffs. It was one of them. I think

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Speaker 1: it was also nineteen ninety because he the first stint

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Speaker 1: stint with him. He took over in nineteen ninety, and

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Speaker 1: I think he went like seventy one and forty five

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Speaker 1: once he took over, and the Mets finished close to

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Speaker 1: making the playoffs. It was also a tough ask to

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Speaker 1: take over for Davy Johnson because he was such like

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Speaker 1: a larger than life figure as the Mets manager who

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Speaker 1: won a World Series but also kind of let the

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Speaker 1: players run wild and really truly underachieved while he was there.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about Davy as we get down in this list.

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Speaker 1: But the Mets also love, especially through this era, love

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Speaker 1: a former ballplayer, especially one on their team as the manager. Yes, all,

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Speaker 1: as all baseball teams did in that era. Yeah did

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Speaker 1: you know that? But Harrelson had a radio show on

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Speaker 1: WFAN while he was manager of the Mets in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: and he canceled it because Howie Rose was asking him

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Speaker 1: questions that were too negative. That's like till the plug.

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Speaker 1: As some of the Joe Tory, being a player manager

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Speaker 1: with the Mets. Yeah, so Bud Harrelson, again, it was

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Speaker 1: a short stint and he did give them that push

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Speaker 1: at the end of nineteen ninety, but then didn't really

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Speaker 1: do much in nineteen ninety one. Probably like C. D. Range,

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Speaker 1: I don't really have a feeling of someone who's that

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Speaker 1: short and was Okay, I'd like to just bump Bud

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Speaker 1: Harlelson up a leather grade because I give credit to

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Speaker 1: anybody who's punched Pete Rose in the face. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I think I think I want to make him Sea,

295
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Speaker 1: just to add that little curve on there for being

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Speaker 1: a WFN guy and punching Pete Rose in the face

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Speaker 1: even though he was the only manager for like year

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Speaker 1: and a half. Carlos Mendoza talk about a tough one,

299
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Speaker 1: talk about a tough one, and I think I know

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Speaker 1: where he's going because you would have said twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four s, you would have said twenty twenty five ff.

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Speaker 1: So that probably lands him in C And truthfully, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of where I feel like him right now. I

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Speaker 1: just I need to see more. I've seen one good

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Speaker 1: one horrendous. That being said, some of his decision making

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Speaker 1: is suspect. Yeah, definitely suspect, but at the same time,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to really complain a lot about what he's

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Speaker 1: what he was given this past year. Like we were

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Speaker 1: very critical of Carls Mendoz's bullpend decisions, which at that

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Speaker 1: time felt like some of the squarre things I've seen

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Speaker 1: in my life. But also it seemed like he was

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Speaker 1: kind of playing really carefully because of what he had

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Speaker 1: in his bullpen available to him. He kind of was

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Speaker 1: forced to be a little bit more careful than most

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Speaker 1: managers just would have to be in a more neutral setting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he seems like someone who I would love to see

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Speaker 1: him succeed again. It would be great for the Mets

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Speaker 1: next season, and I do think that he has value

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Speaker 1: to this team. Like I don't. I don't think he's

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Speaker 1: a god awful manager, but it is hard to look

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Speaker 1: past what happened in twenty twenty five and not kind

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Speaker 1: of still have a bad taste in your mouth with

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Speaker 1: Carlos despite how good twenty twenty four was. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: very young manager like Carlos. Again, he'd managed a lot

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Speaker 1: in the Venezuenta Winter League. You still want to get

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Speaker 1: more reps into it. The one thing that does kind

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Speaker 1: of still make me a little bit curious and question

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Speaker 1: was going to happen carlsmroon Dooz this year. Is the

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Speaker 1: fact that if you're supposed to be this like good,

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Speaker 1: like happy goal not almost a happy go lucky that's

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Speaker 1: the wrong term, but just like kind of this endearing

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Speaker 1: more player manager type, like he's not a hard ass.

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Speaker 1: You would like to see the players respond more when

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Speaker 1: things go poorly. Well, that's what I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: is that for a leader from the outside, it feels

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Speaker 1: like there's a lack of leadership in the two years

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Speaker 1: that he's been there, Like it took JD. Martinez coming

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Speaker 1: in and the miracle that was Jose Glacis in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four to get this team right, and then in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five it felt like there was there was

341
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Speaker 1: nothing going on in terms of leadership. So like that's

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Speaker 1: kind of where I feel like the manager's supposed to

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Speaker 1: step in. You are supposed to be the leader of

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Speaker 1: the men that you were managing, and I don't always

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Speaker 1: feel that with Mendoza. No, I definitely don't, But I

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Speaker 1: mean I still I can't go I can't go lower

347
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Speaker 1: the beer as I was, I was gonna put him

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Speaker 1: see just because I think it's it's right in the middle.

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Speaker 1: You got to prove us next year and then we

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Speaker 1: can make a decision. Yeah, one great year, one bad

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Speaker 1: year's average amount. Yep, Casey Stengele, let's talk about Casey

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Speaker 1: the original Mets manager. The original Mets manager. I mean again,

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Speaker 1: what Casey Stangle was given as a Mets manager. It's

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Speaker 1: really hard to chastise him anyway. He had like probably

355
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Speaker 1: three of the worst rosters in the history of baseball

356
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Speaker 1: is three years he managed this team, and it was

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Speaker 1: it was definitely a net positive for the Mets to

358
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Speaker 1: try and gain some instant credibility with a guy like

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Speaker 1: Casey Stangle. Knew the New York media was like kind

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Speaker 1: of at the time, like a god in New York.

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Speaker 1: That's when managers were kind of revered. This like some

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Speaker 1: important to most of the players on the team. So

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Speaker 1: the fact that he could be like Quippi the way

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Speaker 1: he was with the media and like not make some

365
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Speaker 1: of these veterans the Mets, the veterans that are unlucky

366
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Speaker 1: enough to wind up on the Mets and young players

367
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Speaker 1: like not want to just stop quit playing baseball. But

368
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Speaker 1: he did some things as this manager that really hurt

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Speaker 1: this team in the long term. Yeah, he was. I

370
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 1: mean the team was horrible. We know that. Again, you

371
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Speaker 1: mentioned probably three of the worst rosters we've seen a really,

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Speaker 1: really long time in Major League Baseball, including one of

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Speaker 1: the worst teams that's ever existed. And yeah, probably still

374
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Speaker 1: the seams ever existed. But also at the same time, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many more games you could have

376
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Speaker 1: won out, I'll almost give him credit for winning any

377
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,080
Speaker 1: games with some of the rosters that he had. Like

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Speaker 1: they we love ed Cranepool, but like they the poor

379
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Speaker 1: seventeen year old kid gets called up, They're like, all right,

380
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Speaker 1: figure it out, go play. You should be a junior

381
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Speaker 1: in high school. I do kind of a little bit

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Speaker 1: blame Casey though, for the Reggie Jackson Steve Chilcott decision, sure,

383
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Speaker 1: because when he was asked by the press about like, oh,

384
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Speaker 1: Reggie Jackson and Steve Chilcott like, why'd you go for

385
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Speaker 1: a catcher over Reggie Jackson, best college here there in

386
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Speaker 1: the country, he was like, if we don't have a catcher,

387
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Speaker 1: you know we're gonna be run around a lot of

388
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Speaker 1: the guys. The balls can go to the backstop every

389
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Speaker 1: single pitch. Yeah, no, right, guy, come on. I think

390
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 1: he also spoke about that with Hobie Lander, who at

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Speaker 1: the time I believe was a journeyman catcher and they

392
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Speaker 1: selected him in the expansion Draft over a lot of

393
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Speaker 1: like legitimate veterans, and same thing. He was like, well,

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Speaker 1: you have to have a catcher. If we don't have

395
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Speaker 1: a catcher, there's gonna be a lot of pass balls exactly.

396
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 1: That was kind of his thing. And it's like there

397
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 1: was always the like the I know Reggie accused the Mets,

398
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 1: the Mets front office of some of some racism with

399
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 1: the not picking him, but that comment. I was always like,

400
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 1: come on, guys like you, like, look who Reggie Jackson is.

401
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 1: Why are we taking them? Also, just some more fun

402
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 1: things about him. Apparently took spring training like insanely serious.

403
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,639
Speaker 1: That first Mets spring training they played against the Yankees

404
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,679
Speaker 1: in a spring training game and took it like it

405
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,680
Speaker 1: was a regular season game, while the Yankees were treating

406
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Speaker 1: it like it was spring training, like that was the

407
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,439
Speaker 1: Mets World Series. This kind of started the whole like

408
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Speaker 1: I don't want to say loll Mets because that's obviously new,

409
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 1: but like the whole idea of like the Mets winning

410
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,639
Speaker 1: the World Series in March type thing. Also, you have

411
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,160
Speaker 1: to remember that spring training in baseball until like what

412
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 1: the nineties, Like that was actually like, oh, this is

413
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Speaker 1: the first time these guys have actually getting ready in

414
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Speaker 1: four months. Like I think that was a David johnsoning

415
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 1: where used to make the Mets guys run sprints because

416
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 1: they were so hungover every single morning. They were so

417
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,880
Speaker 1: wofully out of shapes, like these baseball players like went

418
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,160
Speaker 1: didn't start lifting weights until again, probably like the eighties. Also, fun,

419
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 1: fun little story too about Casey Stegele. Mets held a

420
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 1: party at a place called Toots Shores before Old Timers

421
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,560
Speaker 1: Day when they would hold that he fell off a

422
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 1: barstool broke his hip. A little bit murky as to

423
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,800
Speaker 1: what happened as to why that was, I'm gonna go

424
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Speaker 1: out on him and say he was pissed drunk because

425
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Speaker 1: he didn't know until the next morning when he woke

426
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: up that he had broken his hip, went to the hospital,

427
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,679
Speaker 1: needed extensive rehab, never managed for the Mets again. I mean,

428
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Speaker 1: if you tell me this, especially you talked about the

429
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 1: rankings of this list of who we'd want to get

430
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,879
Speaker 1: a beer with All timer if if I can just

431
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 1: take time, if I have a time machine, Casey Stangle

432
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,679
Speaker 1: might be in my Mount rushmore guys I want to

433
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 1: have a beer with. Yeah. I mean, he's All of Famer,

434
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,479
Speaker 1: He's just one of the great characters in baseball. I

435
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,240
Speaker 1: have a hard time putting him anywhere lower than see

436
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 1: and I might just put him at B for the vibes.

437
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 1: We're just gonna keep putting every single person and say, so,

438
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 1: let's put him in BE but Casey and B. Despite

439
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 1: managing three of the worst teams possibly ever, also winning

440
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,920
Speaker 1: games with them is a is an accomplishment of itself.

441
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 1: I'm more prone to move Carls Mendoza to be the

442
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,919
Speaker 1: Casey Stangle. Case Dangle had like a thirty percent percentage

443
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 1: a r s Dallas Green. This is the famous manager

444
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 1: of the worst team money could buy, Yeah, and basically

445
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: didn't have a single second of be a good manager

446
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 1: for the Mets. I'd love to get our dad's takes

447
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 1: on Dallas Green because I feel like he's the one

448
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,919
Speaker 1: who I hear the most, like little quips and like

449
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 1: little anecdotal at the sides of like I hated that manager. Yeah,

450
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,920
Speaker 1: and there's not really too much that you can talk about,

451
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 1: Like the team acted kind of like assholes and they

452
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,920
Speaker 1: performed terribly, And in my notes I just put complete

453
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 1: ass like again, the Mets spent so much money and

454
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,680
Speaker 1: they were god got awful. Maybe that's not fully his fault,

455
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 1: but he got nothing out of his team. Yeah, Prett

456
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,880
Speaker 1: Sabrahy can filled the water guming bleach. And I believe

457
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 1: he shot out that Bob Clappish, who went because of writing,

458
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 1: because of the book that he wrote the worst team

459
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 1: money could buy, or vices whichever order that happened in

460
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: front of the program Bob Clappish. But this, I mean,

461
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 1: it does reflect poorly on the manager when your players

462
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 1: acting that way. Yeah, and I think this is a

463
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 1: clear and obvious f Yeah, for sure. David Johnson is

464
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 1: the son one. I think we can go down and

465
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,439
Speaker 1: say that this is probably the goat for Mets managers, right.

466
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 1: I think is the most wins in Mets history, got

467
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 1: the eighty six World Series. Like, I think it's blatantly

468
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 1: not the goat. You don't think so you think it's

469
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 1: gonna be uh Gil Hodges Dodges, I mean because Davey

470
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 1: he won that World Series, and like he should get

471
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 1: like a lot of the credits for like getting that

472
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: team together winning the World Series. But like the way

473
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 1: those mess teams underachieved before and after that, Like I

474
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 1: understand if there was a wild card, the Mets might

475
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,439
Speaker 1: have even snuck into another World Series because they just

476
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 1: eighty five what they have it was like ninety something wins.

477
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 1: They miss the playoffs because they lost the card. Eighty

478
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 1: seven was a bad year. Eighty eight was when they

479
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 1: lost to Mike Sosh and the Dodgers, and he kind

480
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 1: of just like sometimes you lose in the playoffs, and

481
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 1: then eight nine ninety were a bit of a mess.

482
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: Not sure against Dave again, he probably should still be

483
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:30,919
Speaker 1: an steer because we have to rain the curve of

484
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 1: the other managers here. But like the way that the

485
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: careers went for some of the guys in that room,

486
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 1: you probably would have a manager with possibly a slightly

487
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: different style could have maybe saved those young men. Like

488
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: he got the most out of the guys who were

489
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: doing cocaine and drugs and like hanging out in clubs

490
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: until five am. And that was kind of an awesome

491
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 1: period in baseball where guys were doing that and something

492
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 1: that we've even joked about a little bit with like

493
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 1: this Mets team, like we need some guys doing some

494
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: crazy shit, like they they missed. Nothing like that, nothing

495
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: like that, nothing going on. Yeah, I'm not saying cocaine,

496
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: but going down being public figures like Keith Hernandez and

497
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: Darryl Strawberry not good and being public figures kind of

498
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: don't really see that in baseball with a lot of

499
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 1: guys anymore like that. But also at the same time,

500
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: probably a big reason for their demise was that the

501
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,239
Speaker 1: Mets allowed them to keep doing this stuff. Yeah, and

502
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 1: Jeff Perman wrote the great book The Bad Guys Won

503
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,360
Speaker 1: about the eighty six Mets, and it's like the one

504
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,360
Speaker 1: of the best anecdotes I think is sports history about

505
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 1: after the Mets clinching the NLCS against the Astros and

506
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: the crazy that was like eighteen inning game where everyone

507
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: was just pins and needles the whole time, the team

508
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: trashing the flight back from Houston with their wives just

509
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 1: like getting pissed drunk. That had a big cake and

510
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: they just smeared it all over the plane, people puking everywhere.

511
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: The wives are on the flight and they all got

512
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 1: trash too. And then was that Frank cashing his jam

513
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: in the Mets in eighty six. Yeah, my das Can

514
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: yelling me for you believe to show that one, basically

515
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: telling Davy like this is on you, guys, you have

516
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: to pay this Bill, and Davy going in front of

517
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 1: the team and ripping it up saying we're not paying

518
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: that shit. Let's go win. Let's go win the series

519
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 1: like yeah, right, rah and guiding the team back because

520
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 1: they were down big in that series against the Red Sox.

521
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 1: Even after that, Bill Buckner play had to go win

522
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: a game seven and comfort behind in a game seven

523
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: to beat the Red Sox. But there's always that, there's

524
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 1: always that twinge of why was there not more consistent

525
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 1: success for a team with a corps that was like

526
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,919
Speaker 1: the best in the whole. I think I have a reason.

527
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: I think it was ramping. Sure, an alcohol abuse, Sure,

528
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: where's the manager, where's the adult in the room? Then

529
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: wasn't there? Definitely wasn't there. But yeah, he's in terms

530
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: of that's history, one of the best, if not the

531
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: best manager. All right, Next up, James George Bamberger. Uh,

532
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: this guy unfortunate, just kind of a forgotten Mets manager

533
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: didn't manage very long. The teams that he managed stunk,

534
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: and probably one of my favorite things after he resigned

535
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: from being the Mets manager after another bad season quote

536
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: to the media, probably suffered long enough. Yeah, right, And

537
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 1: this another one he just kind of gets kind of

538
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: swept away in the annals of history because this is

539
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: like forgettably bad team between Yoki bart and Davy Johnson.

540
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: There was not a lot going on with these Mets managers. Yeah,

541
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna put Bamberger, I think in f right there,

542
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: quick and easy. Sadly, that's kind of it. Gil Hodges

543
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: died as the Mets manager. That's how much he loved

544
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: this team. Miracle Mets nineteen sixty nine. Love Gil Hodges.

545
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: This is my goat. Gil Hodges is the one who

546
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,719
Speaker 1: I think is the best. Gil Hodges kind of guiding

547
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: that team that was still objectively a mess we took

548
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: over in nineteen sixty eight to becoming again winning World Series,

549
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 1: being the best in baseball. Kil Hodges basically in real

550
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 1: time inventing the platoon. Yep, just like having a deep

551
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: bench and being like we're gonna mix and match. I

552
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: left these and righties Art Chansky, Ron Swoboda, who else

553
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: a part of those nineteen sixty nine platoons I haven't

554
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: written down here, Cranepool, Clindennen, like al Weiss, like this

555
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: was it was. It was fascinating to look back and

556
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: see how he managed that team and how it took

557
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: people a very long time to even adopt any of

558
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: the theories that he had of how a team should

559
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: be playing. Like he got the talk about a guy

560
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: got the most out of his players. He put them

561
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: in the best situations, got the most out of him.

562
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: And that's how the Miracle Mets were even born. Because

563
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: you're like, this team won the World Series how and

564
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: we're eventually going to get to Yogi Bart at the

565
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: end of this. But I think if we still had

566
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: Gil Hodges, you might have found a way to win

567
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: that seventy three World Series as well with that floor. Yeah. No,

568
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: he's He's one of the goats for sure. Mount Rushmore

569
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: Met's managers. He's without a doubt s tier and again

570
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: died in spring training managing this team. Shout out Don Leagrec.

571
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: They killed Gil Hodges. He also had a heart attack

572
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: during the nineteen sixty eight season in a game versus Braves.

573
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: This guy was bout as unhealthy as could be. And

574
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: that's what I loved about these old school managers. Chain

575
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: smoked Dragon won baseball games, I mean, sensational managerial career,

576
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: everything he did. Like also, it was referred to as

577
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: a mild heart attack, so give Gil Hodges some credit.

578
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: He called it heart attack there, Like I don't even

579
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: care about that. Like this is this is a guy

580
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: who's just I mean quite literally a baseball wife and

581
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: he died still being a part of the game. But

582
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: he's a he's an absolute legend. Yep, he goes an

583
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: s here. That was another easy one, all right. He

584
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: also he also got who was it? It was like

585
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: one of the Orioles stars. My uncle told me the story,

586
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: like if you thanksgiving his Christmas a go like they

587
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: basically Gil Hodges noticed there was a shoe polish on

588
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: a ball and he got picture ejected from one of

589
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: those World Series games on the Orioles like big swing

590
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: in that World Series. I trust he's the man, all right.

591
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 1: I let's talk about someone that's close to us. Weirdly,

592
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: were a little connection between the Mets up boys and

593
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: Jeff Torborg. Fun fact, me and James and Jeff Torborg,

594
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: all alumni of Westfield High School in New Jersey. It's

595
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: arguably one of the best athletes to ever walked through

596
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: those halls. Kind of crazy to think about. Also, I

597
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: think caught three no hitters. He caught a perfect game

598
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: from Sandy Kofax, caught a no hitter from Nolan Ryan,

599
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: and then I can't remember the third guy, but caught

600
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: another no hitter. One of the few players in history

601
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: to ever do that. I think Jason Varitek has the

602
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: record with four Caughton no hitters. I feel like it's Prisinski.

603
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: I think Prasinski's up there too, and I think Maltonado

604
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: was as well. But those are those are elague catches

605
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: in terms of catching a no hitter. Yeah. That being said,

606
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: Torborg was not a great Mets manager. He took over

607
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: for Dallas Green in the nineteen ninety three season. Mets

608
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: gave him a contract afterwards four years, one point seven

609
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: million dollars, which was again one of the no he

610
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: was before Dallas Green. Was he was before Dallas Green?

611
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: He was right? Yeah, it was Green right to Bobby Valence.

612
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: I bad, my bad, apologies about that, But he came

613
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: in after the Bud Harrilson. That's it. That's it. Set

614
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: seven games by Mike Cubbage at the end of ninety four. Yes,

615
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: and then it was Torburg got his shot there it is,

616
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: I got those guys mixed up. But yeah, still wasn't

617
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: good either though bad, not good at all. Yeah. Again,

618
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: like this era of the Mets is not is not

619
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: really a lot to write home about the Generation K,

620
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: which we gave that one a shot. Yeah, they they tried.

621
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: But Jeff Torborg, I think also broad goes into the

622
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: what F D tier? Maybe Yeah, I guess. I mean,

623
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: let's play in the DTER for Westfield because we don't

624
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: have any guys in the d T yet, can I

625
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: spin it? I mean, he he has one of the

626
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: worst win percentages in Mets manager's history, but it's not

627
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: the worst. I'm trying to think was nineteen ninety two?

628
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: Ninety three? Was that when the arms started to blow

629
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: out for Generation K? Is that ninety one? Not quite sure.

630
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna make a comment on that one because

631
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: I did I think I didn't write that down in

632
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: my notes. I think this was also one of actually

633
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: the worst seasons in Mets history. I mean he was

634
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: eighty five and one fifteen in his time as the

635
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: Mets manager. Like third, I mean he also I think

636
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: he got fired like in May of ninety three, like

637
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: he he was thirteen twenty five and team that wo

638
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: end up winning fifty nine games. He got fired and

639
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: probably goes to f tier. So Howard Johnson was still

640
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: in that team somehow. Chee's crazy, Yeah, all right, let's

641
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: just crazy. Dwyke Gooden was still on that team. Torborg

642
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: goes into f Sorry, Dwight Goodin pitched two hundred and

643
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: eight and two thursd innings nineteen ninety three Mets. That's incomprehensible.

644
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: Think I'll talk about the time of this team. How

645
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: crazy is it that there's been at least three people

646
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: from Westfield High School that I have been employed by

647
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: the New York Mets. That's saying that's insane. Yeah, right,

648
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: at least three men, at least three. I don't know

649
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: about the rest of the positions in the front office

650
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: in the organization, but Mets manager and podcasters, you got

651
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: three right there. It breaks my brain that like Bobby Jones,

652
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: Sid Fernandez, Brett Saberhick and Dwight Goodin all the same team.

653
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: I'll pitch on the nineteen ninety three Mets. That is

654
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. That's nuts. Jerry Manual, this is one

655
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: of my personal least favorite managers ever. He snaked Willy

656
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: Randolph so hard, which with the Will Ponds snake to

657
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: get that job. I don't think it's enough credit for

658
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,479
Speaker 1: also collapsing when he was manager and having some of

659
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: the worst unwatchable Mets teams ever and bad friend to

660
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: Willie Randolph. Bad friend. And I'll say this though, like

661
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: that two thousand and eight Mets team was nowhere close

662
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: to the caliber of six and seven. They did still collapse,

663
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: but that team wasn't It wasn't anywhere near as disappointing

664
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: as what happened after. And I'll give Willie Randoff some

665
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: credit that the team it got much worse after him

666
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: for a short period of time, like those early Terry

667
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: Collins teams were way worse than those late Jerry Manuel teams. Yes,

668
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: and for Jered not these those guys fault. But yeah,

669
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 1: Jerry Manil was just the king of like a five

670
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: hundred team loved loved being not good, not bad. And

671
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: that's also probably a combination two of the Mets front office.

672
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: But I did not like Jerry Manuel, twelve year old

673
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: Mets with Mark was like this guy, can this guy

674
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: do anything right? It seemed like he couldn't make any

675
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: right decisions. I mean, we also had a pretty bad

676
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: taste their mouth with Jerry Manuel after the Waite things

677
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: went down. Also, again he's continuing on this trend of

678
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: the Mets managers not getting other managerial jobs. Ever, again

679
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: does he go an effort d though, because relatively speaking,

680
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable indeed, because that's what I think the teams

681
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: fought under him, Like even the twenty ten Mets, devoid

682
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: of talent, almost draggings, falls to a five hundred record. Yes,

683
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: like they weren't the worst, but like you look at

684
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: the guys in f those were some of the worst

685
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: Mets teams ever except Casey Stengle. Never never doubt Casey Stangle,

686
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: But those were some of the worst teams ever. Probably

687
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 1: this has gotta be I think the most forgettable Mets

688
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: manager ever. Joe Frasier. I mean, good name, great name,

689
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: not nearly as prolific as the boxer, but Joe Frasier,

690
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: the Mets manager. They brought him up for the miners.

691
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: He was one of like the great minor league minds

692
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: that the Mets had at the time when they brought

693
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: him in. He was brought into, he was replaced by

694
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: Joe Torre. They just they gave him zero time. They

695
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: were like, Joe Frasier, the job's yours, and then quickly said,

696
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: never mind, We'd actually rather have our player manage the team. Yeah,

697
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: which I think is kind of him getting a bad

698
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: rap because he was like, it was just a man.

699
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: It was a bad start to a season, like the

700
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: Mets were so bad after the kind of seventy three

701
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: sixty nine corps fell apart basically until Davey Johnson in

702
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: the early eighties, and the fact that he led five

703
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: hundred records. But I think back then it was just

704
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: there was so few playoffs pots if you weren't close

705
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: to those. I guess they took any chance they could

706
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: to get rid of him. But it was again a

707
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: guy that did not again imagerial job ever again after

708
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: this though, and the Mets gave him little opportunity to

709
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: even prove if he was worse, Like he managed two

710
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: hundred games, it's a season and a half and being

711
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: near five hundred it's kind of crazy. We probably lacked

712
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: the context of what was going on with the team,

713
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: just again because it was so long ago, but probably

714
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: d for him as well. So here's he's a funny

715
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: fun fact about Joe Fraser as well. It took him

716
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: five years after this to get him another managerial drops

717
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: in baseball. He was a manager of the Louisville Redbirds,

718
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: the Triple A team for the Cardinals. And you know

719
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: who managed that team after him, Joe Tory Jim Fergozi. Ooh, okay,

720
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: there was a little fun fact. Yeah, piece was Jim.

721
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: Was he Toms for trade? Now? Who's Nolan Ryan trade? Yes?

722
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: Nolan Ryan Trade. So I guess I get Joe Fraser.

723
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: Why not give Hi? Why did not give Joe Frasier

724
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: a See? He was over five hundred for two full seasons? No,

725
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: he wasn't over five hundred for two full seasons. He

726
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: was he too. He only managed from seventy six to

727
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: seventy seven. I have him seventy six and I have

728
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: oh yes, yeah, my eighty six to seventy six is

729
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: in his one full season. Then fifteen games under in

730
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: to May's next season. Yeah, I mean it's I think

731
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: it's hard to be see if you got fired after

732
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: two hundred games, I guess not wrong. Joe Torri woof Wolf.

733
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: I mean weird scenario again because as a player manager

734
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: but also genuinely one of the worst managers ever. Yeah,

735
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny he was a player manager, al right,

736
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: Oh it's I think that's like one of the cool

737
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: things that sports used to do, but also at the

738
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: same time absolutely insane to have your player also be

739
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: the managers. Nuts, Yes, psychotic from a standpoint of like

740
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: why would you do this? And again, like those teams

741
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: that he managed with were horrific future thing. Took over

742
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: a team on over five hundred the year before, so

743
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: like what were you gonna say about that? And just

744
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: I only he's he kind of was terrible four hundred

745
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: win percentage, just dreadfully bad, and they gave him so

746
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: many opportunities. He was the manager forever with this team.

747
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 1: I think he's a hard f Joe Torry. I mean

748
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: he was a player for most of the time. Yeah,

749
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: but I think he's an F. Yeahs is a blatant F.

750
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: Here Luis Rojas my product son. I think this guy's

751
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: still gonna get a chance to be a great manager

752
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: one day, but boy did he stink with the Mets.

753
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: I mean, what'll we say about Luis Rojas. It was

754
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: strange timing. It was strange to Sua. He wasn't even

755
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: supposed to be the manager. He became the manager. Kind

756
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: of the sound I can't beieve it. Miss Carls Beltron

757
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: on here. Why don't we have Carls Beltron zero and

758
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: zero Carls Beltron s tire. But it's just I don't know.

759
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: It seemed like at the time Rojas was a bit

760
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: over his head. He was allauded for being a good

761
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: manager in the system, but it's just it was, well

762
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: he was. He got the classic job now that we've

763
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: known is like control. Yeah, is the manager in waiting

764
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: a guy that's just not ready yet, which is quality control.

765
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: And that was supposed to be his role under Beltron.

766
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: And then when Beltron got fired because he was involved

767
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: in the Houston astros cheing scandal, which also I still

768
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: don't he shouldn't have been fired for that. Who gives

769
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 1: a shit? Well we still we don't know that he

770
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: was involved. It's come out that he might have been

771
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: like the architect of it, who cares whatever, that's it.

772
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: You know what, that's what I want my manager. I

773
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: want my manager thinking about ways that they can cheat

774
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: to win, because the Mets don't win enough. And if

775
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: we had to do it that way, I would have

776
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: been fine. But Luis Rojas, it was like the peak

777
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: when it started was great because remember he was very

778
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: active with defensive changes and using platoons and getting relievers

779
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: in at the right time. But then it slowed down.

780
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: Its slowed down, and as soon as there was any

781
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: amount of pressure, it just seemed like Louis Rojas crumbled,

782
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: and it seemed like a guy like Louis Rojas might

783
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: have gotten another shot. If you know, Steve Cohen wasn't

784
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: getting more involved and wanted to get a guy established,

785
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: guy like they said Buck Showalter in the fold. But

786
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: he's also like Yankee fans don't really love him for

787
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: the decisions he makes, says that they're base coach either. Now.

788
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: I think I'm not willing to put him in f

789
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: but I would put him in D I'd be happy

790
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: to put him into He didn't didn't reach the playoffs, No,

791
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: but definitely I don't think was again like these other

792
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: guys here, No this next person. Is there anything below

793
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: f I mean it would be jail or garbage, I think,

794
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, Mickey Callaway is obviously going in fer as

795
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: a person, not great, bad guy, very bad, very very

796
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: bad guy, or now secret in baseball. I'm just gonna

797
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: talk about him as a manager. It's crazy how every

798
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: single year it felt like the Mets started off incredible

799
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: and then fell off a cliff about as fast as

800
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: they got good. And never forget when Mickey Callaway batted

801
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: the Mets out of order, that's like, that's like top

802
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: five dumbest moments of manager could ever have. I mean,

803
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: is it dumber than trying to fight a reporter? Yeah?

804
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: Shout out our friend Tim Healy, friend of the podcast

805
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 1: We Miss You, Tim covering the Mets was ready to

806
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: start swinging on him, and also to get all this

807
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: underscored by the fact that it seemingly every single woman

808
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: the guy ever interact with was creeped onto a level

809
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: of illegality on it by him. Never forget to all

810
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: the national reporters when he first got signed, you know,

811
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: praise the best for signing with Mickey Callaway, And then

812
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I was like, this is the

813
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: worst kept secret was interesting how that got spun. But yeah,

814
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 1: I mean this guy flips very fast. Yeah, this guy sucked.

815
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: And boy, boy did I hate Mickey Calloway. I was smug.

816
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: He was just a jerk. He it was so it

817
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: was so hard to root for him. What was the

818
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: thing that he would say after every game? Okay, I

819
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: blocked every single thing to happen with Mickey Calloway directly

820
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: out of my brain. I just I Also, I don't

821
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: want a manager that seems to be like very well manicured,

822
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: and it seemed like he cared about his his his

823
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: look more so than actually managing the game. Yeah, I

824
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: want a manager who looks so ridiculous in the baseball

825
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: uniform that like it brings me joy. Also, I want

826
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: my manager looking tired. I don't want them looking like

827
00:34:58,520 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: they just came out of like pumping in the g

828
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: him and got a clean shave every game. I also

829
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: don't know if this is coming out before or after

830
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: the video we just recorded about the ranking grading every

831
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: single Mets, all teams is twenty ten, but those twenty

832
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: nineteen Mets, like if Mickey Calloway was a bit quicker

833
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: on his trigger to stop going to Edwin Diaz and

834
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: your's familiar, and I'll continue to get more saved and

835
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: set up opportunities to set Lugo and Justin Wilson. That

836
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: team likely reaches the playoffs and they have all the

837
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: tools to go on to run in that situation. Literally,

838
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: yeah they that could have been a parrible, ridiculously good team.

839
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, f for Mickey Callaway. All right, Terry Collins,

840
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: I think this is gonna be one that we disagree with.

841
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: I I fucking love Terry like he is I think

842
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: maybe my favorite Mets manager, Like I love Buy Valentine

843
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: because that's when I started being a Mets fan, but

844
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: TC like, he managed some of the worst Mets teams ever.

845
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: But that twenty fifteen run was magical, and he does

846
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: something that we just don't see for managers Nowaday and

847
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 1: it probably won't happen very rarely ever again in baseball,

848
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: which was just very very frank with the media, said

849
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: whatever he wanted, called out his players, but also was

850
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: a player manager. He was someone who lived and died

851
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: every single game, definitely, and I think that I mean,

852
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: I think also just based on lack of choices, He's

853
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: also my favorite Mets manager in my lifetime for sure

854
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: by far. But I do think that you fall into

855
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: this like revisionous history situation with Terry Collins. Well, he

856
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: made bad decisions. He was objectively not I think it

857
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: was a bad manager. But there were just so many

858
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: times where it was like, oh God, Terry Collins is

859
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: going this reliever again. He's like how many times he

860
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: grown out? Henry me out there, try and get one

861
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: more shot raffil Montera when he came back in a

862
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: tiny stint. But like there were so many times even

863
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: through fifteen and sixteen where I was like, oh, I

864
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: can't believe he's doing this again. And where our favorite

865
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: bit that we do in season the messed up socials

866
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: is run to Terry Collins speech. Yes from that was

867
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. He gave that one, yeah sixteen, and then

868
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: they turned that season around like asap where he was

869
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,919
Speaker 1: like basically, if you're not ready to not a sap. Well,

870
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,479
Speaker 1: they turned it around. I think like the twenty games

871
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 1: after that, the team it was like nine to eleven

872
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: or something, which is fun, and then they brought up

873
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: the guys that were ready to go. I got a

874
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: little logo and Geselman action, but like, yeah, calling out

875
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: the players that if you're not ready to play every

876
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: single day, we'll find new guys who are. And I

877
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: I kind of love that about managers. At the same time,

878
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: you probably can't do that anymore. No, definitely not. And again,

879
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: like he was tons of fun and I think he

880
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: was exact with that team needed That was again the

881
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen it was a scrappy underdog, gotta prove ourselves team.

882
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: They rode for Terry. It's cool when the team and

883
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: the players match the personality of their manager. I think

884
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: that always goes to show a team that's like really

885
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: Coalesson come together, and they did that for him, and

886
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 1: we get all the credit in the world for getting

887
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 1: guys that play just hard as fuck for a manager.

888
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: I want to fight for Terry and a I have

889
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: a feeling you're gonna fight back on that. I was

890
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: very happy with Terry. Okay, cool, all right, Terry, and

891
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: I love the World Series. Yeah, recal World Series. And

892
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: also that's just in terms of like just all time

893
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: guys that we like. Another guy I would kill to

894
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: have a beer with. Oh, all time killed. I have

895
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: a beer with Terry Collins specially I'd love to get

896
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: the podcast. Yeah. Also, we could probably pull that one

897
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: off as well. Yeah, we're gonna have to maybe pull

898
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: some shrinks there, see if DC will come on. I'm

899
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: not sure how familiar he is with Riverside, but we'll

900
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 1: find out. No, I don't know he has his OW podcast.

901
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure he knows a little bit. Maybe I don't know.

902
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: He's quite old. Yeah, guys, Wes Westrom, is this the

903
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: name that you knew before we did this, James? Because

904
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: I did not, uh no, but I did like some

905
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: light research on it. He was probably the nineteen nineteen

906
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: fifty one Giants. Pennant and Willie Mays loved him. Apparently.

907
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: In Willie Mays's book he described Westrom as built like

908
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: a block of granite. That's kind of a sick description

909
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: and praise. Hi was one of the best defensive catchers

910
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: of that era. Similarly, though he was the mana drafter

911
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: case he Sangle took over for him. Fun fact about him.

912
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: First manager to ever manage Mets team that didn't finish

913
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: in last place, Wes Westrom. They finished in a night

914
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: that year, and again another tie where the Mets were

915
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: trying to gain legitimacy for their new expansion team, and

916
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: they were like, let's bring in New York guys. Do

917
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:50,919
Speaker 1: you know the name of the person who took over

918
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: for Wes Westrom when he got a fire for sixties

919
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: and sixty seven? Don't know what was his name? Salty Parker?

920
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: Salty Parker. That's crazy. Salty Parker managed a handful of

921
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: games for the Mets, and yeah, that was a that

922
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 1: was the guy who took over. Salty Parker went four

923
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 1: and seven in the last two weeks of the ninety

924
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: six they fired him for a week. Is crazy, that's nuts.

925
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 1: Can I He resigned? He resigned? He was sorry, sorry, sorry,

926
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: can I? Which is almost funnier. Can I interest you

927
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: in and be for west Westrom for being the first

928
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: manager ever to not finish in last place? Oh yeah,

929
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: I'm for sure with that. He helped, you know, bring

930
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: up Tom sever like he was there and Tom tup

931
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: arrived to the show. Like I give him credit for that. Yeah.

932
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: They on Wikipedia when they talk about him, they're like,

933
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: it's just crazy bad timing, Like all the good players

934
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: that the Mets had in the late sixties and early

935
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: seventies just missed West Western by like a year, when's

936
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: the first time the Mets hired the manager that had

937
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: no no connection to New York. Was it Roy McMillan.

938
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: I know he's not on this list because he wasn't interim,

939
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: but we gotta do some research on Roy McMillan. Or

940
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: was it Joe Fraser? Like, well, Joe Fraser was in

941
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: the Mets farm system, so he okay, so that's true. Yeah,

942
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: and again like Salty Park, I'm shore was on the

943
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: staff of course, promoted for eleven games and he got

944
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: he got signed. But like in terms of full time managers,

945
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: Casey Stangle former Yankee West Western, former Giant, Gidge's, former Dodger,

946
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,959
Speaker 1: yog Bear of Chorus, Joe Tory and then Frank Howard

947
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: get another interim manager. So like the Mets just and

948
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: even even you get the nineteen ninety one Bud Harrelson.

949
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: The Mets said about thirty years of history of almost

950
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: only hiring managers that were previously connected at the organization.

951
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely insane. All right, final two guys here, Willy Randolf Poor,

952
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: Will is gonna be tough. I mean Willi's it's so

953
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: hard to analyze Willy fairly because he sat the helm

954
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: of two of the worst collapses in the history of

955
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: the sport. Yep, and he never got another job, which

956
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: is fucking crazy. But also he sat at the helm

957
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 1: for the worst two collapses the history of the sport,

958
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: and at the same time, like two thousand and six

959
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 1: was was pretty awesome. I mean, I know it ended poorly,

960
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: but like that team was so so, so good, and

961
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: it was it was nice to see a guy like

962
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: Willie just really let the young players on his team

963
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: have a lot of personality and kind of run with

964
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: that personality. Like it's it's not that that was more

965
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: rare in that era of baseball. We kind of forget

966
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: how long ago twenty years was in terms of what

967
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: young baseball players are flack of better term, allowed to

968
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 1: do in this day and age. Yeah, like the fact

969
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: that Ray and Right were able to slowly become leaders.

970
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: They were on magazine covers, they were crazy public appearances.

971
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: Rays was dancing and people were singing his name, and

972
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: he was stealing and rounding second base on triples, Like

973
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: it was it was cool that a manager like will

974
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: He let a young dynamic player do that when some

975
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: managers in league still at that time would not have

976
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: kind of let that shit fly, and funny enough, I

977
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: think revision of history again, two of the worst collapses ever.

978
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: That's that's tough. But like overall, he wasn't he just

979
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: he just happened to have two of the worst collapses ever.

980
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: Those Mets teams still want a tone of games, and

981
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: I believe in terms of like win percentage for Mets managers,

982
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: he's like I think he's second all time. He's throw

983
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: and two fifty three with a five forty four, but

984
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: also just one of one of the worst when when

985
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: there was pressure, Boy did he absolutely collapse. I'll also

986
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 1: say this too, for a lot of those two thousand

987
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: and seven games, I know sometimes it bounced back and forth.

988
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: It was it was the way the era was. I

989
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: get that two thousand and six. Why was David Right

990
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: hitting fifth? Of course, that was one of the best

991
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: players in baseball, He's hitting fifth, Like I understand, it

992
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: was a lot more about veterans shiping seniority at that time,

993
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: like a papoula duca a second is how much contact

994
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: he made? If David Rice hitting second in Game seven,

995
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: you might be that game. You probably would that game,

996
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: and that that that part will always kind of pissed

997
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: me off. But again, I can't blame Willing. That was

998
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: just that was still what the Times were saying. I

999
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, like probably like D right, just because

1000
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: of those collapses. I thought I thought you were gonna

1001
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: say see your B and I was gonna argue for D.

1002
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: So that's fine. Yeah, I think it's gotta be D

1003
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: like you just you can't have those ends to the

1004
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: season and ever be something better than a bad manager. No,

1005
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: and never got hired again, says a lot. No, does it?

1006
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was weirdly he never got hired again.

1007
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: I almost thought he got the raw into the stick

1008
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: for not getting hired again. I mean probably because again,

1009
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: those teams still won like eighty seven games a year,

1010
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: and I think especially with the playoff expand format expanding,

1011
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: they would have made the playoffs a lot of times.

1012
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure. Yogi Barra last gaoke, shout out Yogi. Now,

1013
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: this this is the all time baseball guy, Yogi Barra. Yes,

1014
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 1: I mean as a guy is an all time dude.

1015
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: Yogi Barra is one of the cools of all time

1016
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: without a deb like coming over immigrant family gunner in

1017
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: World War two what eleven rings, Yeah, can put him

1018
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: on all his fingers in one toe. One of the

1019
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: best catchers in the history of the game, like one

1020
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 1: for days, yeah, close for days, one of the most

1021
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: decorated players in the history of the game. At the

1022
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: same time he he managed, he does he made some

1023
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: really bad decisions down the stretch of seventy three. This

1024
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: is Hilaire probably hilarious to hear me, a twenty nine

1025
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: year old say something like that. But the fact that

1026
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: he ran forty two year old Willie Mays wasn't hitting

1027
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: out in centerfield every single game was crazy. And then

1028
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: a lot of people will chastise him historically for rolling

1029
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: with Tom sever in short rest in game six. Yeah,

1030
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: he definitely did a lot bad. But at the same time,

1031
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: again like not even close to one of the worst

1032
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: managers ever in Met's history, just because there are so

1033
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 1: many bad ones. It's just it seems like Yogi, maybe

1034
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: maybe he shouldn't have been managing the team for as

1035
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: long as he did. Sure, but also he helped oversee that.

1036
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: But Harrelson Pete Rose fight in the nineteen seventy three

1037
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: NLCS I've talked about before. It was just yeah, just

1038
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,479
Speaker 1: it's weird that he made I don't know, like again

1039
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: part of the chorus, not gonna chastise pit players bad

1040
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: managers for making decisions with the time dictated. But that

1041
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 1: was a couple of those things were really rough looking back, Yeah,

1042
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: super rough times for Yogi. Uh. Ultimately probably what C. B.

1043
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 1: Range I think, wasn't he also the manager when there

1044
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: was that situation with Kleon Jones. Oh we got called

1045
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: with a woman in his car. I want to say, like,

1046
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if that was just before just after Yogi.

1047
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly, so I'm not going to reference

1048
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: that one. But it's just you know, it's yes, your

1049
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: b ah b so reach the World Series, all right,

1050
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: we'll put Yogi in B. As you guys can tell

1051
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: from looking at this tier list, a lot more bad

1052
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: Mets managers than good ones. And again, there have only

1053
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: been two managers in Mets history that have ever made

1054
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: the playoffs, and back to back years only really one,

1055
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: Bobby Valentine and Terry Collins. One of those, Terry Collins

1056
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: was a one game playoff. Yeah, so uh, bad history

1057
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: of managers, bad history as a franchise. Love to know

1058
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: what you guys think, about the tearless down the comment

1059
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: section blow who do we rank wrong? Who did we

1060
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: not give enough credit to? I'd love to hear what

1061
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: you have to think. Subscribe to mets up on YouTube

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00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: if you're listening to US Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google drops

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Speaker 1: a rating, drops review, download, and subscribe. You can follow

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Speaker 1: James on social media at Jameshan and I'm draftnick Mark.

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Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening, Thank you for watching. We'll

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Speaker 1: catch on the next one. Peace Out, peace out, guys.

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Speaker 1: Go mets