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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Luigi Mangioni, the alleged killer

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Speaker 1: of the United Healthcare boss, reportedly gunning him down, shooting

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Speaker 1: him in the back in cold blood. The heir to

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Speaker 1: a multimillion dollar fortune, back in the news again over

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Speaker 1: two unlikely issues, a sex tape and snacks. I'm Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Sex tapes and snacks. First of all, let's start with

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Speaker 1: the sex tapes. What's really in the Luigi Mangioni sex tape?

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Speaker 1: Is it real? Much has been made regarding the existence

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Speaker 1: of a Luigi Mangioni sex tape or tapes. Now, the

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Speaker 1: reported CEO killer lawyer swears all the X rated footage

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Speaker 1: featuring her special client is all fake. But apparently, whether

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Speaker 1: that's true or not, there is still one X rated

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Speaker 1: video still for sale. Is it Mangioni? This is what

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Speaker 1: we have been told. There is a solo video of

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Speaker 1: a man who resembles Luigi Mangioni in a sex tape,

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Speaker 1: and it's being offered to a gay porn site for

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Speaker 1: at least a six figured sum. Hmm. Now, the movie

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Speaker 1: in question is a personal video, probably not recorded for

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Speaker 1: public eyes, So whoever shares it will be opening themselves

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Speaker 1: up to potential prosecution. Now, what would that be like

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Speaker 1: to be prosecuted for releasing a private sex video starring

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Speaker 1: Luigi Mangioni that was meant for the videographer's eyes only?

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? Now? We know plenty of porn

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Speaker 1: companies would love to get their mits on a Luigi

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Speaker 1: sex tape, but legally it could backfire to whoever sells

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Speaker 1: it because there is a big legal hurdle, possible criminal prosecution.

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Speaker 2: So I think we're going to have to wait.

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Speaker 1: Will I ever look at Luigimanngoni's alleged sex tape? No,

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Speaker 1: I will not. I never even looked at Miss America

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Speaker 1: sex tape. For Pete's sake, I'm not going to look

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Speaker 1: at Luigi Mangioni sex tape. But there's more. There's more

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Speaker 1: regarding Luigi Mangioni. But in case your curiosity is piqued

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Speaker 1: by an alleged luigiman Gioni sex tape, have a little

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Speaker 1: reality check what this case is all about. A person

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Speaker 1: of interest identified in the United Healthcare CEO shooting a

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Speaker 1: man taken into custody in Pennsylvania straight out to Chief

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Speaker 1: of Detectives NYPD, Joe Kinney.

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Speaker 3: A man was taking it to custody today at Altoona,

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Speaker 3: Pennsylvania this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.

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Speaker 3: He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born

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Speaker 3: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to

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Speaker 3: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.

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Speaker 2: He has no prior arrest history in New York.

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Speaker 3: This case was brought to a successful conclusion based on

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Speaker 3: the co ordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including the

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Speaker 3: Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners at the FBI,

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Speaker 3: the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course, members of

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Speaker 3: the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: Repeat for those of you just joining us bombs, An

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Speaker 1: arrest has been made in the so called health Boss

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Speaker 1: murder of all People, an IVY League grad turn assassin

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Speaker 1: born with a silver spoon in his mouth right now

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Speaker 1: in isolation and a Pennsylvania CI Correctional Institute at Huntingdon.

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Speaker 1: What happened? How did a guy with everything turn into

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Speaker 1: a cold blooded assassin? Joining me in all star panels

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Speaker 1: straight out to Harmonia Rodriguez, joining US chief US reporter

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Speaker 1: with dailymail dot Com and star of the podcast The

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Speaker 1: Trial of Didi Hermania.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the.

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Speaker 1: Arrest, right.

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Speaker 4: So, finally, after a five day menhunt, police found the suspect,

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Speaker 4: Luigi Mandiano adam McDonald's in Pennsylvania. Actually, police now say

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Speaker 4: that he had been in state, moving back and forth

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Speaker 4: between Pittsburgh and other places for days. It appears that

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Speaker 4: an employee at McDonald's called police after someone recognized him

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Speaker 4: and said he was acting suspicious.

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Speaker 2: Police said yesterday.

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Speaker 4: That when they approached him, he gave the same fake

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Speaker 4: ID from New Jersey that he had given to check

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Speaker 4: into the hostel in New York. Now, when police asked

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Speaker 4: him if he had recently been to New York, that's

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Speaker 4: when he started shaking and became very nervous, and that's

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Speaker 4: when he was arrested. And now he's been now charged

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Speaker 4: with the murder of Brian Thompson.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Tyler Fry.

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Speaker 1: Now, this is a rookie police officer, was formerly with

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's department. Listen, whatever we got.

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Speaker 5: On seeing there, we were able to pretty much find

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Speaker 5: where he was at in the restaurant. As soon as

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Speaker 5: he pulled he was wearing a blue medical mask. As

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Speaker 5: soon as we pulled that down, we asked him to

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Speaker 5: pull it down. Me and my partner and I recognized

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Speaker 5: him immediately. He didn't even think twenty spot it. We

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Speaker 5: knew that was our guy. But he was very he

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Speaker 5: was very cooperative with us, didn't really give us too

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Speaker 5: many issues once we found out whose identity we took

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Speaker 5: it from there.

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Speaker 1: Time or Fry being lauded today in making the arrest.

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Speaker 1: That's our friends at eleven Alive two. Dave Matt Crime

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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter who's been on the case

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Dave Matt, there big conflicting reports

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Speaker 1: and to McDonald's employee, I d him or was in

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Speaker 1: an elderly patron who identified Maggioni Luigi Mangioni, and that

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Speaker 1: patron then alerted an employee.

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Speaker 2: And the employee called nine to one one.

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Speaker 1: How did it go down? Mack?

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Speaker 6: That is exactly how it happened. Nancy, an elderly couple

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Speaker 6: looking over, noticed him. He was sitting in the very

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Speaker 6: back of the restaurant. He's got his little blue mask up.

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Speaker 6: He's sitting there eating breakfast, looking at his laptop, and

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Speaker 6: an elderly man scribes him there and goes to an

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Speaker 6: employee says, I think that's the guy. So the employee

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Speaker 6: calls and the police were right there.

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Speaker 1: Now I've heard that he was acting suspiciously. To Cheryl

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Speaker 1: mccollumy's joining me, forensic expert and director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, star of hit podcast Zone seven. Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: you have to have a reason to detain, Okay, not arrest,

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Speaker 1: but to detain. It's an age old simil case us

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Speaker 1: versus Terry. Okay, to stop someone just to ask for ID,

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Speaker 1: so to say he was acting suspiciously. The guys in

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Speaker 1: the back booth out of McDonald's on his laptop. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what is suspicious about that. I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: what I think, Cheryl. I think they identified him. The

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Speaker 1: patron identified him and goes, hey, that's the guy i'm

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Speaker 1: seeing on TV that's shot down. The CEO and the

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Speaker 1: employee call nine one one. I don't know what's suspicious

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Speaker 1: about that, but a police officer has the right, based

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Speaker 1: on intuition, to ask you for ID. That is okay.

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Speaker 7: They were called there because two people, not one thought, hey,

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Speaker 7: that looks like the guy, and if he's eating breakfast,

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Speaker 7: he's having to move that mask a little bit to

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Speaker 7: take a bite. Once they approach him, law enforcement says, hey,

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Speaker 7: we were called here. Let me just go ahead and

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Speaker 7: see your ID. The ID that he gives them is

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Speaker 7: the same Sake New Jersey ID then he gave to

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Speaker 7: the hostel. At that point, they're like, this is the guy.

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Speaker 7: We also recognize him from the photograph that NYPD put out,

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Speaker 7: And I just want to say that is absolutely fantastic

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Speaker 7: police fork that they put his face out so fast

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Speaker 7: that somebody in Pennsylvania is going to recognize him.

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Speaker 1: Joining you right now. High profile lawyer, defense attorney Jason

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Speaker 1: Oceans who practices in this jurisdiction, Jason Oceans, don't you

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Speaker 1: just hate it as a defense attorney when the cops

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Speaker 1: do it the book, there's really nothing for you to

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Speaker 1: complain about it.

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Speaker 2: And can't you just see it.

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Speaker 1: After my dad retired from the railroad, a group of

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Speaker 1: his friends he would occasionally go, very rarely, but they

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Speaker 1: would get together at McDonald's. Okay, they're not paying five

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Speaker 1: dollars for a cup of coffee at Starbucks and they

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Speaker 1: would be there every day, many of them military vets

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Speaker 1: like my father. And can't you just see people that

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Speaker 1: go to McDonald's every day and they're sitting in one.

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Speaker 1: Oh my stars, that's him. And the police did not

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Speaker 1: screw it up. This rookie formally a sheriff, however, comes in,

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Speaker 1: he's got a suspicion and he does a terry good

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Speaker 1: terry stop.

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Speaker 8: I think you highlighted that well.

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Speaker 9: And know as a defense attorney, listen, you're presented the

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Speaker 9: evidence and the facts as they are.

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Speaker 8: Nancy, you know, we don't make that up. We might

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Speaker 8: highlight things or focus on different.

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Speaker 9: Aspects to ensure justice, if you will. But it was

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Speaker 9: a great stop, and you quite properly note that he

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Speaker 9: was experienced as a sheriff, so he might have been

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Speaker 9: a rookie to the Altuona PD, but certainly his instincts

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Speaker 9: kicked in, moved the mass, secured the scene, made sure

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Speaker 9: that he was safe and his partner, and you know,

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Speaker 9: kudos to DENYPD and getting the information out the picture

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Speaker 9: as it's been noted, that was widespread national news and

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Speaker 9: really just good old police detective work.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Tom Smith is joining me. Former NYPD detective thirty

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Speaker 1: years in the city. Now star of the gold Shield Show.

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Speaker 1: It's a podcast, Tom Smith, thank you for being with me. Tom.

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Speaker 1: You know how wrong this could have gone, how sideways

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Speaker 1: it could have all turned. You know, he had the

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Speaker 1: ghost gun with him and one of the gun charges

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Speaker 1: against him, he's got multiple gun charges is a he's

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Speaker 1: got a suppressor aka silencer. But also he had a

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Speaker 1: loaded illegal gun. There wasn't just some amo in his backpack.

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Speaker 1: That gun was loaded. Know how wrong this takedown could

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Speaker 1: have gone. They could have.

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Speaker 8: Gone terribly wrong.

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Speaker 10: The good thing was they got him kind of by surprise.

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Speaker 10: They got him in a confined area, and the deputies

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Speaker 10: who showed up did a masterful job at doing this.

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Speaker 8: They got on top of him quick before he could

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Speaker 8: do anything or think about anything.

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Speaker 10: And like I said, being in that corner helped them

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Speaker 10: a lot, and they took advantage of that.

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Speaker 1: You mean him sitting in a back booth in the corner. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was nowhere for him to go.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're talking about?

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Speaker 8: Yes, ma'am. You know that's what Smith.

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Speaker 2: This is when I asked you what could have gone wrong?

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Speaker 1: I was a rookie ADA assistant district attorney in inter

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Speaker 1: city Atlanta, and had befriended a cop, a rookie cop

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Speaker 1: that had testified in a lot of what I was

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Speaker 1: putting up to the grand jury, Randy Schapani. And he

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Speaker 1: made a routine traffic stop, routine traffic stop. That was it.

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Speaker 1: The guy rolled down, the driver rolled down the window,

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Speaker 1: took a gun and shot him in the head, just

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Speaker 1: like that for nothing. So you never know when is

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Speaker 1: going to be your last day all the police force.

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Speaker 10: Tom Oh, Yeah, I lived with that for thirty years.

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Speaker 10: And that's what I mean by the great actions of

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Speaker 10: this deputy. He didn't let him get an upper hand.

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Speaker 10: He took control of the situation and had him covered,

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Speaker 10: giving him no way to get out of that area

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Speaker 10: or to any overt act towards the officers.

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Speaker 1: According to a friend of his, his vertebra were about

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Speaker 1: a quarter to a half inch disaligned. The pain was

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Speaker 1: excruciating and possibly had pinched a nerve. Dave matt Crime Online.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it true that he confided to friends and his

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Speaker 1: coshier on the fortieth floor of a Hawaii high rise

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Speaker 1: that he couldn't have sex because of back pain.

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Speaker 6: It's a constant agonizing feeling that he had all the time.

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My

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Speaker 1: Feet and host of Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott explain the intense pain, intense pain that comes

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Speaker 1: along with a back ailment like that, and how that

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Speaker 1: factors in to a young man twenty six years old

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Speaker 1: they can have sex.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, it would be horribly frustrating, Nancy over this period

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Speaker 11: of time. And you can see the horrific appearance of this.

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Speaker 11: The surgery in and of itself is something that he

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Speaker 11: would have been laid up with for a protracted period

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Speaker 11: of time. We've got four screws that are being demonstrated

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Speaker 11: here and this is a crucial pivot point in the

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Speaker 11: axis of your body. So he would have been dealing

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Speaker 11: with chronic pain, Nancy. One of the things I'm wondering about,

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Speaker 11: and I talked to Bethany about this off air, I

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Speaker 11: really wonder if he was taking medication for pain management

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Speaker 11: relative to this, because this is not some thing that

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Speaker 11: would have just you know, he would have just healed

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Speaker 11: from it very easily. We have to understand how far

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Speaker 11: post surgical he is. To try to understand this was

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Speaker 11: he under the influence of any kind of medication and

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Speaker 11: did he even have a doctor that he was following.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. While all reports of a

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Speaker 1: Luigi Mangioni, the so called healthcare assassin, having a sex

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Speaker 1: tape out on the black market. The real issue here

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Speaker 1: is not whether that's a Mangioni or not in the video.

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Speaker 1: Will it be released or not? That's not the question.

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Speaker 1: The question is did he gun down the United Healthcare boss,

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Speaker 1: leaving behind a wife and two boys in cold blood

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Speaker 1: reality check. That's what this is about, not about an

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Speaker 1: alleged six tape. For Pete's sake, Jason Ocean's defense attorney,

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Speaker 1: whether he was on payments or not does not change

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Speaker 1: intent to fire the weapon. He is currently charged with

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Speaker 1: at least three crimes one murder two in New York.

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Speaker 1: Why not murder one? Murder one in New York? Correct

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Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, Jason Oceans. Murder one is usually

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Speaker 1: reserved for a police officer, a correctional officer that has

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Speaker 1: been killed torture is used. That's when we see a

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Speaker 1: murder one charge with murder one, yeah, you can get

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Speaker 1: life without parole. Murder two Jason Police I don't mind

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Speaker 1: if you interrupt. Murder two is when you intend to

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Speaker 1: do the act. It's not an accident. It's not drunk driving,

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Speaker 1: it's not voluntary manslaughter. It's not a heat of passion.

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Speaker 1: You mean to pull the trigger. Yes, the sentence firm

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Speaker 1: two in New York is fifteen to life. There is

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Speaker 1: no life without parole for murder two. He's charged with that.

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Speaker 1: He's charged with forging and that's probably going to be

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Speaker 1: his passport and he's charged that is called forged document,

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Speaker 1: either the passport or the driver's license.

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Speaker 2: And he's yeah.

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Speaker 1: And he's charged with one count of criminal possession of

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Speaker 1: a weapon, including a suppressor, a silencer, and I believe

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Speaker 1: he's going to be charged with possession of live AMMO

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Speaker 1: and a gun. Also he had a weapon without a

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Speaker 1: serial number on it. We know it was a ghost gun.

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Speaker 1: Now And unless I'm wrong on those charges, Jason, do

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Speaker 1: I have any of that wrong? Quickly?

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Speaker 9: No great recitation. The top count would be a murder two.

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Speaker 9: You know, murder one referred as you did, reference only

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Speaker 9: to law enforcement officers.

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Speaker 1: Jo Scott Morgan is talking about is on pain medication.

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Speaker 1: You know what, save it for the jury because he

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Speaker 1: had this intense, intense period of time, an extended period

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Speaker 1: of time where he planned this, and there is no

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Speaker 1: way he's going to walk because he says, oh, I

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Speaker 1: took a xanax. He may have been on pain medication,

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Speaker 1: although we have not been told he had it with him.

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Speaker 1: We know he was exploring alternative methods of healing and

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Speaker 1: pain release, such as magic mushrooms. But he had the

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Speaker 1: wherewithal to have a gun with him and a fake passport,

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Speaker 1: according to the NYC Police Commissioner.

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Speaker 12: Tish, Responding officers questioned the suspect, who was acting suspiciously

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Speaker 12: and was carrying multiple fraudulent IDs as well as a

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Speaker 12: US passport. Upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on

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Speaker 12: his person as a suppressor, both consistent with the weapon

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Speaker 12: used in the murder. They also recovered clothing, including a

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Speaker 12: mask consistent with those worn by our wanted individual Bombshell.

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Speaker 1: In the last hours, an arrest goes down of the

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Speaker 1: so called assassin wanted and the cold blooded execution of

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Speaker 1: health care boss that ran United health Care raking in

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars a year. While zany theories circulated on

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Speaker 1: social media that Thompson had actually hired someone to kill him.

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Speaker 1: There were illusions that Thomas's wife was somehow involved in it,

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Speaker 1: set up a hit. All of that is bogus, All

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Speaker 1: of that is bs. Instead, what we've got is a

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Speaker 1: twenty six year old Ivy League grad double major from

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Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania. Yet, yeah, that's him. If you look

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Speaker 1: at his social media. He and his family have traveled

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Speaker 1: all around the world. He had the best of everything.

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Speaker 1: His grandparents Italian immigrants that can be traced back straight

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Speaker 1: to Sicily work their fingers to the bone to build

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Speaker 1: a financial empire, bought country clubs, golf course, started them

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Speaker 1: home health care, living facilities for seniors. All that money,

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Speaker 1: all that education, all that privilege, and what does he do?

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Speaker 1: According to police, guns down, United.

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Speaker 2: Health Care CEO and.

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Speaker 1: Boy, according to them, did he have it all planned out,

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Speaker 1: including the use of a three D manufacturer at home,

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Speaker 1: ghost gun, no serial number, no way to identify. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, if you do your research, you

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Speaker 1: will learn that ghost guns are only trace less than

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Speaker 1: one percent of the time. He thought he had it

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Speaker 1: all figured out until an elderly patron having coffee at

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Speaker 1: McDonald's saw him and raised the alarm. What more do

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Speaker 1: we know?

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Speaker 12: Listen also recovered was a fraudulent New Jersey ID, matching

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Speaker 12: the ID our suspect used to check into his New

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Speaker 12: York City hostel before the shooting incident. Additionally, officers recovered

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Speaker 12: a handwritten document that speaks to both his motivation and mindset.

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Speaker 1: Oh my stars, another manifesto. Nothing can make me happier

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Speaker 1: than to have an accused killer write a manifesto about

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Speaker 1: their feelings. Joining me, Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, joining

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Speaker 1: us out of la, author of deal Breaker. You can

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Speaker 1: see her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. We hear veteran trial lawyer Jason Ocean's

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Speaker 1: jumping on something. Joe Scott Morgan rightly said, could this

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Speaker 1: guy have been on pain meds? But did you just

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Speaker 1: hear the New York City Police Commissioner Tish state that

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Speaker 1: he had this very well thought out manifesto? He had

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Speaker 1: fake IDs. The degree of pre planning is off the chart. Now,

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Speaker 1: why he decided to keep his beloved ghost gun with him,

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Speaker 1: which absolutely ties him to the murder, is beyond me.

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Speaker 1: I guess that IVY League grad from a graduate degree

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Speaker 1: from University Pennsylvania didn't help anything when it comes to this. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this photo of the fake ID that he appearently obtained

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Speaker 1: from New Jersey under the name Mark Rosario. That took

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Speaker 1: some thinking from our friends at CNN. So doctor Bethany,

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Speaker 1: could you help me shoot down what Joe Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: and Jason Ocean's have cocted. I took his anax, and

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Speaker 1: therefore I didn't know what I was doing.

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Speaker 13: Well. Luigi Mangioni's actions are consistent with multiple pathologies psychopathologies.

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Speaker 13: First of all, he's extraordinarily entitled to think that he

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Speaker 13: could solve the whole healthcare crisis. That's he's going to

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Speaker 13: get rid of these parasites. He's anti capitalists. He's also

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Speaker 13: very that's grandiose. It's entitled to take somebody's life. I

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Speaker 13: don't believe this whole thing about the relative who was sick.

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Speaker 13: I think that's just a rationalization for murder. I think

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Speaker 13: he's been homicidal since his youth. He wears what we

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Speaker 13: call the mask of sanity.

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Speaker 1: And on hold on, doctor Bethny, He's brought up a

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Speaker 1: really good point, and I don't want it to get

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Speaker 1: lost in the sauce. People are trying to rationalize it.

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Speaker 1: They can't believe, Oh, what's a millionaire boy like Luigi

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Speaker 1: Manngioni with his Ivy League degree, Why would he do

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Speaker 1: such a thing? You know, nobody gives it that much

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Speaker 1: thought when a street crime like hey, booking, he's guilty,

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Speaker 1: but now we're like, oh, why did he do it?

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Speaker 2: I think actually there's a clear motive.

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Speaker 13: And to me, he has this type He would be

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Speaker 13: consistent with the type of psychopathology where the person attacks

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Speaker 13: the very institutions of people who are.

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Speaker 1: Trying to help them.

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Speaker 13: Okay, so think of the person in a restaurant who

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Speaker 13: screams at the waiter who's trying to do everything for them.

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Speaker 13: They just think they can't get enough service, these babylike people.

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Speaker 13: So he's anti capitalist, but he comes from a very

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Speaker 13: wealthy family from whom he has been How.

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Speaker 1: Can you be anti capitalist when you were at the

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Speaker 1: trough of capitalism.

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Speaker 2: Exactly eating more than anybody else.

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Speaker 1: You're a pig.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, well, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. In other words,

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Speaker 13: people who want more and more and more, it never works.

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Speaker 2: Out well for them. And also, you know he has

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Speaker 2: this Ivy League education.

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Speaker 13: He's also anti men, anti insurance.

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Speaker 1: I bet he build.

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Speaker 13: I bet insurance covered for that very extensive procedure.

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Speaker 1: That he had.

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Speaker 13: So this again is where he's attacking the institutions that

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Speaker 13: are there to help him. So some people's pathology is

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Speaker 13: such that they always think things are being done to

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Speaker 13: them rather than for them. And when these people go

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Speaker 13: to the hospital, they think the doctors, the nurses, everybody's

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Speaker 13: you know, torturing them, not giving them what they need,

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Speaker 13: and they have a difficult time putting themselves in the

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Speaker 13: doctor's shoes the fact that the doctor is there to

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Speaker 13: help them. In terms of medication, Nancy, the only role

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Speaker 13: I could see is that opioids, and most surely he

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Speaker 13: has prescribed those activate the MEW receptors in the brain,

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Speaker 13: and that those are the same receptors that are activated

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Speaker 13: when our mothers hold us as children.

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Speaker 1: So given that thought about why just a moment place

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Speaker 1: we're showing photos of him on the beach at y Okay.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who can I work every day, My

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Speaker 1: husband works every day, my twins go to school every day,

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Speaker 1: and they work in the summer. Who has time to

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Speaker 1: take this much time off in Hawaii and live in

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Speaker 1: a luxury high rise. How does that happen? Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: anti capitalist. That doesn't make sense to me. Two and

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Speaker 1: two is not equally four.

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Speaker 13: No, it doesn't equal four unless you think of somebody

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Speaker 13: who is extremely disturbed and they are resentful and envious

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Speaker 13: of the people who are giving something to them.

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Speaker 2: Think of babies.

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Speaker 13: The minute the mother leaves the room, the baby screams

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Speaker 13: and cries and wants the mother even more. And that's

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Speaker 13: appropriate for infancy, But the baby doesn't really care or

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Speaker 13: is not able to grasp that the mother might be

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Speaker 13: tired or depressed or whatever, has other siblings to take

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Speaker 13: care of. And so if someone gets stuck in that

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Speaker 13: developmental phase, nothing that they're given is enough, and they

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Speaker 13: don't care about anybody around them. The scream and cry

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Speaker 13: for whatever they want.

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Speaker 1: But wait a minute. We talked about the alleged sex tape,

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Speaker 1: but what about snacks. Wait for it, Luigi Mangioni's police

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Speaker 1: stationed snack could help prosecutors link the Ivy League suspect

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Speaker 1: murder suspect to the crime scene. That's right, a snack.

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Speaker 1: The United Healthcare CEO murder suspect defense attorney Agnafello is

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Speaker 1: arguing in court that Manjioni's DNA that was obtained from

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Speaker 1: a snack given to him by the Altoona PDE after

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Speaker 1: detaining him cannot be allowed in court. Now this is

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Speaker 1: a novel claim. Of course, what you say before your

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Speaker 1: mirandize cannot come into court unless it is voluntary, a

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Speaker 1: voluntary gabfest. But what about a snack? Now? Remember, Mangoni

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Speaker 1: is charged with murder one in furtherance of an act

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Speaker 1: of terrorism, stalking, many many other state and federal charges

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Speaker 1: in both Pennsylvania and New York. This is after healthcare

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Speaker 1: boss Brian Thompson was gunned down a married father of

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Speaker 1: two on a sidewalk, left to die to bleed out

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Speaker 1: on a Manhattan sidewalk back in December. But now we

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Speaker 1: understand that the defense attorneys from Mangioni are putting up

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Speaker 1: a stink over a snack. After Mangioni was detained and

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Speaker 1: legally arrested, his DNA was collected from food the l

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Speaker 1: TUNIPD gave him at the station. He didn't have to

435
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: eat it. What was it? A Snickers bar? Cheese? It's chips.

436
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: I don't know. What I do know is that DNA

437
00:27:55,040 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: samples were taken from the snack. Now, according to certain sources,

438
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: the snack was a slice of pizza. That is such,

439
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: that is so brilliant. There have been many other cases

440
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: where pizza realay DNA. I'm speaking specifically of the Golden

441
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: State Killer, remember him, Joseph DiAngelo. He had a pizza

442
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: and police got the crust. And that's not the only

443
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: pizza DNA. But that's a good example. Before we get

444
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: too carried away. On the pizza, the snookers bar, the chips,

445
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: was it pepperoni, was it ground beef, sausage or just

446
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: playing cheese? Doesn't matter.

447
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: What matters is that a father of two was gunned

448
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: down in cold blood.

449
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 14: In high school, he is the valedictorian of the Gilman

450
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 14: School for Boys, a private school in Baltimore. As an

451
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 14: Ivy League graduate of the University of Pennsylvania. He is

452
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 14: a tech whiz. But somewhere along the way, Luigi Mangioni

453
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 14: developed a grudge against the medical community, either due to

454
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 14: how a sick relative treated or maybe his own treatment.

455
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 14: An X ray photo on his x account shows four

456
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 14: pins in a spine, and he has five books involving

457
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 14: chronic back pain. On his reading list on his Goodreads account.

458
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 15: So the class of twenty sixteen that only explored new

459
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 15: frontiers but also maintained Gilman's most important traditions. I think

460
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 15: this combination of preservation and exploration is what Gilman is

461
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 15: all about. Gilman maintains his classic core values by cultivating minds,

462
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 15: body and spirit and its students, but also champions and

463
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 15: environment with acceptance and diversity, while excelling and his technological endeavors.

464
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 15: Our imagination draws from your inspiration, and our courage largely

465
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 15: depends when your encouragement in the classroom, on the fields,

466
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 15: and on the stage. So parents and faculty, thank you

467
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 15: for all you have done for us today is as

468
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 15: much an achievement for you as it is for us.

469
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: That is from the Gilman School, which is a private

470
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: college preparatory school for boys only costs I think over

471
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: forty grand a year. I guarantee you he wasn't bussing

472
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: tables to pay that tuition bill, you know. Cheryl McCollum

473
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: joining me forensic expert and street cup Cheryl. So often

474
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: when we prosecute and investigate crimes, we see the defendant

475
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: and this is not an excuse at all. Comes from

476
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: low income, a low education or no education, no job,

477
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: and they end up committing crimes. That's not an excuse.

478
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: There is no justification for a violent crime, period. But

479
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: rarely do you see an IVY league grad with multimillionaire

480
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: family members commit a crime like this.

481
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: And even more rare is.

482
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: When the first crime now true, he had a Hawaii

483
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: violation of going into some part of a public park

484
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: that was closed off to the public. That's it. You

485
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: rarely see someone go from zero to one twenty mph

486
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: a premeditated murder. So you got the silver spoon and

487
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: you got the zero to one twenty mph going on here.

488
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 7: Well, let's talk about Wales. You got you got intelligence

489
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 7: versus streets march, which he doesn't have any which is

490
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 7: the reason he was caught. If you look and you

491
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 7: think of back pain, imagine severe back pain. But you're

492
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 7: hunched over, right in a manifesto. You're hunched over building

493
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 7: a ghost done, You're hunched over writing on bullets. You

494
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 7: decide to take a bus which is going to take

495
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 7: you four times as long as you if you drove yourself,

496
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 7: and then you're gonna hop on a freaking bicycle. It

497
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 7: doesn't look like back pain. To me, it looks like

498
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 7: his motive is clearly in his mind only in my opinion.

499
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: Well true, he may have been driven to distraction by

500
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: the back pain.

501
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: We know that, but murder is not. Murder is not

502
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: the answer.

503
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: We were listening to Luigi Mangioni as the valedictorian at

504
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: the Gilman School, speaking about all the values that the

505
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: Gilman School maintains. This guy came from so much privileged. Listen.

506
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 16: The suspected killer of United Health CEO Brian Thompson comes

507
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 16: from a wealthy, educated, connected Maryland family. His grandfather grew

508
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 16: up poor as a first generation American who built a

509
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 16: real estate business that includes country clubs and media investments.

510
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 16: Mangoni is the cousin of Republican Maryland House of Delegates

511
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 16: member Nino Mangoni. His mother, Kathleen Zanino Mangoni, owns a

512
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 16: travel company, and his sister, Maria Santamanngoni, is a respected doctor,

513
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 16: a medical resident at ut Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas

514
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 16: after graduating from Vanderbilt Medical School.

515
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 7: Right.

516
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 13: Not.

517
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 3: The information we're getting from Altuna is that the gun

518
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 3: appears to be a ghost gun may have been made

519
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: on a three D printer. The capability of file firing

520
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 3: a nine millimeters round. Obviously that will come out during

521
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: all ballistics testing.

522
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel, but now straight out

523
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: to Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now co

524
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: host of the gold Shields podcast.

525
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 2: Tom, I want to talk about the ghost gun.

526
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: What's your experience with ghost guns and guns made from

527
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,479
Speaker 1: three D printers? You can make one at home, you

528
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: get the parts, you can even get them online. Hey,

529
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: here are some photos from our friends at CNN.

530
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 10: What do you know, Tom, Yeah, they're extremely dangerous and

531
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 10: kind of taking over a comminality today. And the way

532
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 10: it's done, it's really simple. You can buy a three

533
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 10: D printer for anywhere from three hundred to three thousand

534
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 10: dollars and literally create this is what I'm holding in

535
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 10: front of you, the frame of a nine millimeter You

536
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 10: can create this. It's calling mayor it's plastic, and this

537
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 10: is what's created in these three D printers. Then you

538
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 10: go and just separately buy all the metal parts that

539
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 10: you need to make the gun functional. Those are done

540
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 10: and bought in kits or separately. And the problem with

541
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 10: the ghost gun is there's no identifying markings on it.

542
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 8: There's no serial numbers, there's nothing. They are clean. And

543
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 8: then when you go.

544
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 10: And buy the parts or the kits, those also have

545
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 10: no identifying numbers on them or serial numbers. So that

546
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 10: creates a very very dangerous weapon that police cannot trace

547
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 10: when a crime is committed.

548
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: Now, generally speaking, firearms are manufactured by licensed companies and

549
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: they all have serial numbers displayed on the frame of

550
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: the gun. That allows cops like you to trace the

551
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: gun back to the manufacturer, the firearms dealer, and the

552
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: original purchaser. Not true with the ghost gun, Tom, No.

553
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 8: They're absolutely untraceable.

554
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 10: There are no identifying markings on them whatsoever. So even

555
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 10: if you commit the crime with it scarted, it's still

556
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 10: not going to come back to anything if it's recovered,

557
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 10: much less in this instance catching him with it. There's

558
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 10: no traceable evidence too it to where it came from,

559
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 10: who manufactured it, or anything. It's going to be strictly

560
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 10: on his statements of having that gun on him.

561
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: You know, Thomas Smith, I don't know about you, but

562
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: not out loud to a jury, of course, But sometimes

563
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: I wonder who is going about their day and they

564
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: suddenly think, Hey, I'm going to go online and I'm

565
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: going to get the parts to three D build a

566
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: ghost gun with a silencer aka suppressor.

567
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: Who a has time to think about building.

568
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: Their own gun with a three D printer thinks about

569
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: a suppressor aka silencer? Who does that? Why not just

570
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: you have to have a gun? Why don't you just

571
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: go down to the gun shop and buy one? I mean,

572
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: I think I know the answer, but let me hear

573
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: you tell it.

574
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's just it's another aspect of criminality, and it's

575
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 10: dangerous and it's a horrible heartbreak for what's going on

576
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 10: in this country with untraceable weapons.

577
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 8: It's just constant.

578
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 10: And the thing that you just said, Nancy, you can

579
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 10: make this gun and put it together in a couple

580
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 10: hours by the time is dried.

581
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 8: And you're able to break it apart in a couple

582
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 8: of hours.

583
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 10: If you have the mechanical parts to it already in

584
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 10: your possession.

585
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: You can get these online and put them together at home.

586
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: How hard is it, Tom, It's not hard at all.

587
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 10: I mean, look at the internet today. You can build

588
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 10: anything step by step. All you got to do is

589
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 10: watch a video.

590
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 14: You know.

591
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: The first one was fired back around I think around

592
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, and look how they have taken over Tom Smith.

593
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, you now, it's not even handguns, it's long

594
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:48,479
Speaker 10: guns as well.

595
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 8: You can get the receivers to.

596
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 10: This made and then buy the other parts to a

597
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 10: long gun now in ar or anything like that. It's

598
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 10: taken on a world of its own, which is really dangerous.

599
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In addition to the sex

600
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: tape brew haha, excuse me, alleged sex tape, the snack

601
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: tempest in a teacup that will be coming in by

602
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: the way. That evidence on the pizza or the snickers

603
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: or the chip or whatever it was, we also learned

604
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: Luigi Mangioni has accepted three hundred thousand dollars from freaky

605
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 1: donors who cheer the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

606
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: Three hundred thousand dollars. According to one of his defense attorneys,

607
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: Karen Freeman Agnafello quote, Luigi is aware of the fund

608
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: and very much appreciates the outpouring of support. My client

609
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: plans on utilizing it to fight all three of the

610
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 1: unprecedented cases against him. Really like he's the first person

611
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: that's ever going to be tried with murder that's not unprecedented.

612
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: By the way, it's about three hundred thousand dollars from

613
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: more than ten thousand individual donations, according to a press release. Okay, well,

614
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 1: he's counting his money and eating his pizza and watching

615
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: his porn tape allegedly. Can we talk about the facts

616
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: of this case, Harmonia? With all the pre planning, the

617
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: meticulous visiting the scene, going to a hostel under a

618
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: fake name, getting a fake jersey ID, getting a fake passport,

619
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: wearing a mask everywhere, his getaway on the bike, going

620
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: through Central Park, changing clothes. It's almost out of a

621
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: James Bond movie. Except he kept the ghost gun. He

622
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: kept the passport, he kept the fake ID, he kept

623
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: about ten thousand dollars which he can tests cast with

624
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: him and foreign currency. Is it true he still had

625
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: the ghost gun on him? Correct?

626
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 4: That's one of the interesting things about these cases. He

627
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 4: did go through so much preparation, yet he made several

628
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 4: mistakes that got him caught. The first one, of course,

629
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 4: being when he pulled down his mask to flirt with

630
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 4: an employee.

631
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: At the hostel.

632
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 4: That's how police were able to get his image, which

633
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 4: eventually led to his arrest and as you mentioned he

634
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 4: had on him at the time of his arrest. All

635
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 4: these clues that then, aside from his face of course,

636
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 4: made it clear to police that this was their guy.

637
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 4: I mean, he kept the same ID that police already

638
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 4: had issued a picture of because the hostel had a

639
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 4: picture of that fake ID from New Jersey. He also

640
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 4: had this same exact weapon as well as the silencer, Nancy.

641
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 4: So yeah, a lot of preparation, but there were several

642
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 4: things that he overlooked which eventually led to his demid.

643
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it, Cheryl McColl explain, it's not

644
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: hard to break down a oh the photos of the

645
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: gun are from our friends at seen in Cheryl. If

646
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: he could put the gun together, he couldn't think to

647
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: break it down and leave various parts of it and

648
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 1: bodies of water or different trash cans along his bus route.

649
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 7: He was proud of this gun, Nancy. He made it.

650
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 7: He took the time to get the plans, to get

651
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 7: the equipment, to get all the material. He was never

652
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 7: going to throw that gun away. This is something that

653
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 7: means more to him than the average person could understand.

654
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 7: It is also associated with the biggest thing he's ever

655
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 7: going to do in his life. He's proud of that moment.

656
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 7: If you look at again what he did the time

657
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 7: that he took stay in for the ten days, building

658
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 7: the guns, taking a bus ride, getting the monopoly money

659
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 7: right in the manifesto, waiting on the victims. This was

660
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 7: not something he planned in a day or week. This

661
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 7: is something that meant a lot to him, you.

662
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: Know, Jason Oshans, we are now looking toward extradition. Extradition.

663
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: I've handled one hundred of them. They take about ten minutes.

664
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: It's not about finding guilt or innocence. Extradition it can

665
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 1: be from another state, like from Pennsylvania in this case,

666
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: to New York. It can be from Mexico or Paris

667
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: to the US if we've got an extradition treaty. But

668
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: nobody's saying did you do this?

669
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 2: There's no jury trial. It's just very simple.

670
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: It's a are you Luigi Mangioni and tie are you

671
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: the Luigi Mangioni named?

672
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: And this warrant for your arrest? That's all it is.

673
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 9: Right, you have some speedy trial issue issues that come

674
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 9: into play in terms of extradition, and from the time

675
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 9: that you have a suspect in custody, and so that's

676
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 9: exactly as you said.

677
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 8: That's in play now.

678
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 9: Simple extradition and YPD detectives will take them.

679
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 8: I don't know that he'll object. It doesn't make any.

680
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 9: Sense to it just prolongs the process and they bring

681
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 9: to New York.

682
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: Here's a technical legal term. I don't know if they

683
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: taught you this at your law school, but a lot

684
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: of times in extradition hearings, you went into a world

685
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: class a whole and they just won't agree to extradition.

686
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: Then rather languish in the in this case Pennsylvania CI

687
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: in Huntington, as opposed to facing the music in New York,

688
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: it's going to happen. All you have to do is

689
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: get a fingerprint and go. He is not telling us,

690
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: but this is Luigi Mangioni, and he is the Luigi

691
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: Mangioni in this warrant.

692
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 2: That's that's all.

693
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: It is, two questions. But sometimes because the defendant is

694
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: an a whole technical legal term, they won't agree.

695
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: So you just send him back to.

696
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: The jail till you get the fingerprint and you say,

697
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: enjoy your steel.

698
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 9: Sandwich exactly, and you sitting county not assigned a prison

699
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 9: cell in a group setting. You know, at that point,

700
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 9: take the extradition and deal with the note variety and

701
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 9: at least perhaps you'll have your own cell instead of

702
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 9: being in a group.

703
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 8: It's about all he's got. Looking forward to him.

704
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: You are hearing Jason Oshins, who has handled many, many

705
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: extradition hearings, but now listening to Chief of Detectives Joe Kenney,

706
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: We're going to.

707
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 3: Have to work that out with the Manhatan District Attorney's

708
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 3: Office in Alchuna, Pennsylvania. He's going to be facing gun

709
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 3: charges there, and at some point we'll work out through

710
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 3: extradition to bring him back to New York to face

711
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 3: charges here, working with the Manhattan District Attorney's Office.

712
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 16: Luigi Mangoni has been ordered held without bail and does

713
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 16: not enter a plea In his first court appearance in Holidaysburg, Pennsylvania.

714
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 16: Majoni is escorted to his preliminary arrayment in handcuffs, with

715
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 16: multiple police officers from different departments walking with him, as

716
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 16: he is facing five charges, including one felonycount of forgery

717
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 16: and one felony account of carrying a firearm without a license.

718
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 16: Mangoni is the lone person of interest in the brazen

719
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 16: murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Manhattan last week,

720
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 16: but he's not charged with that crime.

721
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: I'm sure defense attorney Jason Oshens doesn't want to hear this.

722
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: But jo Scott Morgan joining me, professor forensics, he stated,

723
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: very plainly, Hey, you know what, I respect the FBI.

724
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: You guys have done so much for our country. Let

725
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: me just save you some time. I acted alone. He's

726
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: perfectly coherent. So, Joe Scott, here's my question. What do

727
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: you think will be the single most important evidence in

728
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: this case? And I'm guessing it's going to be forensics.

729
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 11: Yeah, it will be, but I think maybe in a

730
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 11: different area it's going to be electronic forensics. Let's think

731
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,919
Speaker 11: about what we have. He's going to be tracked moving

732
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 11: along now that we know who this guy is, his

733
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 11: movements on the bus line. Did he have multiple phones?

734
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 11: Did he have an actual phone that had his name

735
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 11: attached to it as well as a burner phone that

736
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 11: maybe was tracked concurrently with the burner phone. Also, you know,

737
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 11: we haven't talked a lot about Brian Thompson here. What

738
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 11: did this guy do to stalk him? You know, we

739
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 11: go back to this idea that he knew he was

740
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 11: in Manhattan, that he knew he was at this meeting.

741
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 11: Is his history digital history going to have a big

742
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:11,439
Speaker 11: reveal about this relative to him following him day to day.

743
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 11: Did he ever actually make any trips to Minneapolis to

744
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 11: kind of inspect that area. That's going to be a

745
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 11: big part of this is putting all of this together.

746
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 11: I think that, yeah, the ballistics are unique, I think

747
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 11: if you can even attach it, But I think one

748
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 11: of the biggest, biggest pieces of evidence here is all

749
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 11: of this electronic data that's going to come into play.

750
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 11: And also, don't forget this, Nancy, he has a real

751
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 11: understanding and a real love for AI. We've seen this

752
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 11: throughout throughout his social media post, the life that he lived,

753
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 11: his bachelor's and master's degree in computer science. The three

754
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 11: D ghost gun, you know, he's familiar with that. That's

755
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 11: a big part of new technology and just being able

756
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 11: to generate false IDs all of that along the way

757
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 11: is going to be a big, big dagger in the

758
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 11: heart for him.

759
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, You know what, let me just give you

760
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: an example.

761
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 1: The ghost gun. Forte's sake is the most important piece

762
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: of evidence. I tie it with a fingerprint.

763
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 7: The single most important piece of evidence to me is

764
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 7: we've got him on freaking video commit murder. Everything else

765
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 7: is going to be tied to it. The gun, the clothing,

766
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 7: singer print, everything else is coming.

767
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 1: DNA sing single most important piece video and quickly to

768
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: Hermania Rodriguez dailymail dot com.

769
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 2: What happens now? We're just waiting on the extradition hearing.

770
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 4: Correct, So he's supposed to appear in court again in

771
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 4: Pennsylvania today and now the process of extradition moves along.

772
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 4: Charges have already been filed in New York, so we

773
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 4: don't have to wait for him to be physically in

774
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 4: New York for that. But now that process starts and

775
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 4: we are yet to hear what his defense is going

776
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 4: to be. Is he going to oppose extradition as you mentioned?

777
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 4: And that's what's going to start now, the legal process

778
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 4: and all this evidence is going to emerge.

779
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: Tonight we honor two American heroes. Number one, the so

780
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: called elderly patron having his or her coffee at a McDonald's,

781
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: just like every single morning, who took it upon themselves,

782
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: whether they knew it or not, to risk their lives

783
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: to catch an alleged killer. We discussed earlier how very

784
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: often arrests go sideways, much less the arrest of a

785
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:40,240
Speaker 1: violent criminal who's carrying a loaded ghost gun and also

786
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: hero Tyler fry a beat coop, a patrol officer in

787
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 1: Altoona PD. He knew he was going to apprehend the

788
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: health boss assassin, as he has been called. Did he

789
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: shrink back, No, he strode in, and he made the arrest.

790
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: By the book. If it weren't for those two individuals,

791
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: Brian Thompson's two boys may never have answers, but tonight

792
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: they do. Thank you to that patron at McDonald's and

793
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: to patrol Officer Tyler Frye. We wait for justice to unfold.

794
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,