1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to blow your mind. Production of my 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: heart radio. Hey you, welcome to stuff to blow your mind. 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick and 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: we're about to venture into, I think, a couple of 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: episodes on the topic of incense and I was looking 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: around for some fun quotes related to incense and we're 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: gonna get to some fun quotes and some mystical quotes 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: related to incense, but I was really enraptured by a 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: particular quote from Shaquille O'Neal uh, Shack himself, uh, that 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: I read without any initial context. The quote is incense books. 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: Just weird, which which raises so many questions, especially since 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: I really don't know a whole lot about about sports 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: and the life of shack and so forth. I I 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: played shack Fou the the old video game back in 15 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: the day, the first one, but outside of just shacks 16 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: General Um ever present media power and his appearance all 17 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: throughout media, I don't know much about him. Uh. So 18 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: I had to research this one a little bit and 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: not certain, but I think this is a quote from 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,919 Speaker 1: shack talking about his former coach Phil Jackson. I believe 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: the situation is that during the early two thousand's, Jackson 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: would have the Lakers meditate before their games, and I 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: think he also assigned various texts for his players to read. 24 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: So maybe our basketball fan listeners out there can chime 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: in on this topic. Oki Doki, I have absolutely nothing 26 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: to offer here. I know I have almost zero shack knowledge. 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: So we've discussed the human mastery of Fire Multiple Times 28 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: on the podcast. How it enabled us to externalize our 29 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: digestion and master cooking, how it enabled us to illuminate 30 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: the dark and somewhat free ourselves from the shackles of night, 31 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: how it enabled us to master the use of minerals 32 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: and ultimately venture into the world of Alchymy and chemistry. Now, 33 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: on the subject of smoke itself. We have discussed the 34 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: use of smoke in long distance communication, but the use 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: of incense, the burning of specific biotic materials to produce 36 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: pleasing and or masking fragrances, as well as the visual 37 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: splendor of smoke, this is an area I don't think 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: we've really considered before. So what? What? What got you 39 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: going on, incense man? I think interestingly enough, I was 40 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: on the front porch. It had gotten cool enough to 41 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: work outside, have my laptop out there, but I had 42 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: some Anti Mosquito UH incense burning. Not not the spiral 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: kind that will reference in a bit, but one of 44 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: these more modern situations where you have a little gas 45 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 1: pod that's put in the bottom of the machine and 46 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: then you have a little cab that has a certain 47 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: chemicals on it that you slide in and then that 48 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: Burns and it creates uh, some nice, pleasant looking whiffs 49 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: of of Grace Molk that also keep the mosquitoes at 50 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: bay at least a little bit. So one thing I 51 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: gotta Start With an addressing incense uh is that I 52 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: mistakenly used to think that incense was one unique substance, 53 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: like it was the product of one plant or something, 54 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: but apparently that's not true and it's also not a 55 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: consistent recipe for a combination of products that that applies 56 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: to all incense around the world. Instead, I think we 57 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: should say incense is a class of substances right. It's 58 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: like any organic material or combination of organic materials that 59 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: you burn in order to release a fragrant smoke. So 60 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: what goes in your incense and one culture might be 61 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: totally different than what goes in in another and and 62 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: even within a culture you might use different substances. That's right. Yeah, 63 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: various traditions will have different blends, different materials and yeah, 64 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: sometimes you're talking about, uh, some sort of dried substances, 65 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: other times it's formed into an incense stick. Certainly we 66 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: have cones. Uh, they're also oiled. I mean there's a 67 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: a wide spectrum of substances, though I would say generally 68 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: we're taught not talking about things that are intended to 69 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: be directly inhaled. Generally we're talking more about an ambiance 70 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: in a room, though they of course, are gonna end 71 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: up inhaling some of that, but it is contributing to 72 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: the atmosphere. It is not, uh, something that one is 73 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: necessarily consuming, right. So the English word incense traces back 74 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: through the French to the late Latin Word Incense Um, 75 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: just meaning that which is burned. It's a thing that 76 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: you burn, and this is related to the Latin verb incendiary, 77 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: which means to set something on fire, to light on fire. 78 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: So it's something that you burn to produce an aromatic smoke, 79 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: especially a sweet smoke, according to a lot of early sources. 80 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: So while incense is a class of substances. Uh. There 81 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: are some specific plant products that are especially significant in 82 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: the history of the incense trade, and a couple that 83 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: really stand out to me because of, you know, all 84 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: my received Bible stories as a child. I think will 85 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: be familiar to many other listeners. This would be the 86 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: references to incense in the story of the birth of 87 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew. So in this story 88 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: it says that when Jesus was born, uh there were 89 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: wise men, that this is a translation of the Latin 90 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: Magi or the Greek Meg Oi, wise men bringing three 91 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: gifts to honor the birth of Jesus, that they show 92 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: up and these gifts are gold, frankincense and myrrh. Now, 93 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: first of all I want to do one of my 94 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: little patented uh Joe McCormick Bible fact drops. Did you 95 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: know that the Bible does not actually say there were 96 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: three wise men? The story of the wise men bringing 97 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: gifts uh at the birth of Jesus appears only in 98 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: the Gospel of Matthew. And here's what it says. So 99 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: this is from the N RSV quote. In the time 100 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: of King Herod, after Jesus was born in Beth him 101 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: of Judea Magi from the east came to Jerusalem, asking 102 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: where is the child who has been born the king 103 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: of the Jews, for we observed his star in the 104 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: East and have come to pay him homage. So that's it. 105 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: It's just Maji, just a plural. Nown now there has 106 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: been an ocean of ink spilled over how best to 107 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: interpret the word Magi. Who did the author have in 108 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: mind when the story was written? The theory that seems 109 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: most convincing to me is that this is probably a 110 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: reference to Ptarthian or Persian Zoroastrian priests who were thought 111 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: to be very adept at reading portents in the stars, 112 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: which is why the word Magi is sometimes translated as astrologers. 113 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: But anyway, that's all it says. Says Magi came or 114 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: MEG OI came. Uh, not how many of them there were, 115 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: but the traditional interpretation that there were three of them 116 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: is probably derived from the fact that it does say 117 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: they brought three gifts, and those gifts again are gold, 118 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: frankinsence and murder. So we know what gold is, but 119 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: what are those other two things? Well, actual relief, Frankincense 120 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: and Mr are both types of incense. They are resins 121 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: or chunks of hardened gum or sap from two different 122 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: types of related trees in the Burceray C I family 123 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: uh and the Burceray C I family uh. These are 124 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: arid or semi arid tree like plants that I think 125 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: are typically associated with growing in the Arabian Peninsula and 126 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: on the on the Horn of Africa. And so these 127 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: two incense resins, along with gold, are probably used in 128 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: the story from the Gospel of Matthew because they're supposed 129 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: to show that the Magi or the Magi recognize Jesus 130 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: as a king, as a king foretold in the stars, 131 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: because Franken sits and Mur like gold, are expensive luxury 132 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: items there. They're they're associated with with power and with 133 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: religious significance, that they were used in religious rituals all 134 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: throughout the ancient Mediterranean and also to perfume the itch such, 135 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: as you know, in a burial ritual for a king. 136 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: Now I've seen enough imagery, Christian imagery of the three 137 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: kings uh, to you know, to to know that you know, 138 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: generally they are depicted as holding some sort of special 139 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: box that contains the Frankensense and the Murr and of 140 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: course I've I've seen images of frankensense itself. But I 141 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: still have to say, like, when I think of the 142 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: three kings bringing gold, Frankensense and Murr, I hear frankensense 143 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: and I still imagine Frankenstein's monster. Um, he said, at 144 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: least back there, lurking in the back of my mind, 145 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: even as I'm putting together this major scene in my 146 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: head right there with you. I I always made that 147 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: connection when I was a kid. It's like you got Frankenstein, 148 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: frank and Berry cereal and Frankensense the gift to Jesus, 149 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: and I don't know what that is because they never 150 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: explained when I was a kid. I think one time actually, 151 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: somebody did explain that, uh, that mirror was used for uh, 152 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: it was used in its like essence form or oil 153 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: form to anoint Berry Oles of the dead, and I 154 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: was like, well, that's a morbid gift to give a baby. 155 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: It's like here's something that we will put on you 156 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: when you die. But again, I think it's supposed to 157 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: be something that is expensive and royal and and holy 158 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: and shows that, you know, they recognize that the stars 159 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: have foretold. This is going to be a king yeah, 160 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: and I think these are all things to keep in 161 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: mind as we start, as we eventually discuss how how 162 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: incense factors into different cultures and different belief systems, like 163 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: what it means to burn this sacred substance that creates 164 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: a special pleasing odor. I actually found a fascinating article 165 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: about that that I think we're going to get into 166 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: more in part two of the series. But before we 167 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: move on from frankensince and Mura, I did want to 168 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: add a few more facts descriptive about their what they're 169 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: like and how they were used in the ancient world. 170 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: And Uh, this is coming from another interesting article I 171 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: was reading. This was an eon magazine by a University 172 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: College London anthropologist named Timothy Carroll, and the article was 173 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: called Franken since Murr both holy and heretical. And so 174 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: there is a background section where where Carol here is 175 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: describing what these these smells are like. It's kind of 176 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: hard to you know, we can't make you smell it 177 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: through the Internet here, so unfortunately we can't give samples. 178 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,599 Speaker 1: But if you've never smelled them before differentiated them. Frankensense 179 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: is known to have a kind of woody or what 180 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: he calls a warm spiced smell. So I'm imagining that 181 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: is in some way roughly similar to the warm spices like, 182 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, cloves, allspice, cinnamon and that kind of thing, 183 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: whereas Carol says that mirror is typically said to smell 184 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: like rose or maybe like Basil, but also is sometimes 185 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: said to have a kind of bitter aroma, and if 186 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: you think about the kind of bitter back note to 187 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: the smell of a rose, that makes sense to me. 188 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: An interesting thing about the origins of the word Frankensense. 189 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: Uh so you associated with Franken Stein, but actually what 190 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: what frankensense means is, uh, the refix. Frank there is 191 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: just a word that archaically means like high quality or pure. 192 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: So Frank instence basically means like pure incense or really 193 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: good incense. Another distinction is that I said both of 194 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: these were forms of incense, and they are, but frank instence, 195 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: I think, is almost always used as a as a 196 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: type of burned incense, so you would burn pellets of 197 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: it to make a smoke, whereas mirror has a lot 198 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: of different preparations. Sometimes it is burned as incense other 199 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: times people will make like an oil infusion out of 200 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: it and use that to like anoint people, to you know, 201 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: place upon their heads for religious purpose or at a 202 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: burial or something like that. But Carol talks about how 203 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: these substances were not just for the religious purposes that 204 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: we're going to get into in more detail. They were 205 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: also believed to have like practical benefits. He points out that, 206 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: as we've talked about on the show before, a lot 207 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: of in the ancient world there was a lot of 208 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: association between disease and bad smells. So aromatic substances were 209 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: used throughout the ancient Mediterranean to cleanse bad air that 210 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: was thought to somehow be associated with disease and also 211 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: to drive away vermin like rats. Okay, so, so, functionally 212 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: at the very least, amasking odor, but within the like 213 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: the crude belief systems of of the day regarding infection 214 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: and disease, they're cleansing, they're actually helping to protect you 215 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: from illness and well, I'm not sure Howard to rule 216 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: the prevention of rats creeping around. I mean I think 217 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: you could say that to various extents aromatic smokes are 218 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: effective at driving away especially insects. Yeah, I don't yeah, 219 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: but I don't know about the rats. I'd need to 220 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: see more. More data is required on that. But there 221 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: were all these alleged medical uses of these fragrant substances, 222 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: like Frankensin Sen Mur Carol points to the writings of 223 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: an ancient Greek physician named Pedanius Dioscorides, who lived from 224 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: forty to nineties Ce and speaking about Murr specifically, diascordes, says, quote, 225 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: rubbed on with the flesh of a snail, it cures 226 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: broken ears and exposed bones, as well as pus in 227 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: the ears and their inflammation, with meconium castoreum and glaucium. 228 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: It is rubbed on vericose veins with Cassia and honey. 229 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: Very good, very good. Some key substances in there, some 230 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: of which will come back up again, and he mentioned 231 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: some other uses too. It is thought to have to 232 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: be able to help regulate sleep, blood flow, menstruation, all 233 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: kinds of things. So this is the Murror is kind 234 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: of shaping up like a cure, all like it has 235 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 1: some kind of religious significance. It will, it will mask 236 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: the odors of death, it will make you seem like 237 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: a king and it will also, allegedly, like, cure all 238 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: these various diseases or regulate the processes of the body. 239 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: But to come back to the idea of incense more 240 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: generally again, we're talking about a a class of substances 241 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 1: that you would burn in order to produce an aromatic smoke. 242 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: That's right, and and certainly fragrant woods, herbs, oils other 243 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: such substances. They can be added to many different heat sources, 244 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: many different flames, including flames that are primarily used for 245 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: illumination or cooking, Um like on. On the subject of cooking, 246 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: I don't really barbecue much anymore. When I do cook something, 247 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: I use a gas grill, but I remember growing up 248 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: when you do the charcoal grill and occasionally cooking certain 249 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: cuts of meat, it was desired to get like some 250 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: hickory branches to add to the coals underneath, uh, and 251 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: so you know, there are various things like that one, 252 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: of course, can do within say, a culinary tradition. Yeah, 253 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: and smoking meat has multiple effect. I mean, on one 254 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: hand it's just pleasurable. People like the taste of of smoke, 255 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: but also it has preservative effects, yes, but it's also 256 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: a rich global tradition of creating specialized sensors or other 257 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: artifacts does signed and built exclusively for burning incense of 258 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: some sort. Now a lot of these devices are tied 259 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: into practices that involve the burning of incense for pleasure 260 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: and or religious purposes, and we'll get into many of 261 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: those in a bit. But I wanted to touch a 262 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: little bit on the idea of of of practical incense burning, 263 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: functional instance burning kind of like we're talking about earlier 264 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: to drive the rats away at the bad air UM. 265 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: And coming back to my earlier example of of of 266 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: mosquito repellent, because really the first place my mind went 267 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: when I started thinking about this, in part because I 268 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: was keeping mosquitoes away with with special smoke at the time, 269 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: is the humble mosquito coil. Everyone, I think it's probably 270 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: seen this usually green. It's a coil, it's it's essentially 271 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: an incense you start burning the the outer edge of 272 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: the coil and it slowly burns and spirals in towards 273 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: the center. Generally this is the coil itself. Contains Pyrethrum, 274 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: which is naturally occurring, and acticide. UH, there may be 275 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: some other ingredients in there and you're generally talking about 276 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: six inches length coiled up in one of these, and 277 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: it will take up to about twelve hours to burn through. 278 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of direct experience with these 279 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: that I was just looking up some general stats about them. 280 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: It's apparently a Japanese invention of the eighteen hundreds uh 281 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: that that of course, really takes off once you have 282 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: mass production capabilities in place for it. It's a design 283 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: that effectively allows you to have a super long incense 284 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: stick that will burn for a long time but also 285 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: doesn't take up a lot of space, because imagine if 286 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: you had, instead of it being in a spiral, it 287 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: was just like just a long incense stick. It could 288 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: kind of be a pain to to lay out somewhere 289 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: that if it covered the entire length of the picnic table, 290 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: for example, that wouldn't be as as cool of an experience. 291 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: Now again, I don't know exactly how dependable the idea 292 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: of up to twelve hours is. I don't know what 293 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: affects that rate of consumption, but it does bring to 294 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: mind this really and this is where I really got 295 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: interested in the topic of Incense. Is that okay? You 296 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: can look at the basics here. If it takes x 297 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: amount of time to burn through an incense stick or 298 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: an instant spiral, then perhaps that rate of change can 299 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: be used to measure time. And Uh and yeah, this 300 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: is a whole area of combustion based timekeeping and there 301 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: are a number of things you can loop under this heading. There's, 302 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: of course, the candle clock, which makes use of the 303 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: gradual rate of change in a burning candle. We see 304 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: these in the traditions and traditions of the East, West 305 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: and Middle East, with a council in Chinese writing going back, 306 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 1: I believe, as far as the sixth century CE. And 307 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: then there are also oil lamp clocks. Now I think 308 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: these only go back a couple of centuries, in part 309 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: I'm guessing, because you need a dependable way of making 310 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: the decrease in oil Um visual, you know. So that's 311 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: gonna be harder with some of the oil lamp constructions 312 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: of old. And so some of the examples that were 313 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: coming up from me when I was researching this sort 314 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: of eighteenth century designs, and they're really beautiful looking, but 315 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: of course they involve a lot of elegant metal and glass. 316 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: But the incense clock, UH, yeah, this takes us into 317 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: Chinese traditions, and before I get to the invention itself, 318 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to share some some some neat insight about 319 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: the role of incense in Chinese culture, as I think 320 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: it'll all be worth keeping in mind as we take 321 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: the additional step and considering incense as a timekeeping measure 322 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: and also generally, I think flows with some of these 323 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: larger and even global ideas about incense. I was reading 324 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: Stuart's Sergeant's two thousand and one article from the Journal 325 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,719 Speaker 1: of the American Oriental Society titled Wanting Jen's incense of awareness, 326 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: and while it largely deals with specific lines from the 327 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: poetry of this Song Dynasty calligrapher, painter and poet who 328 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: lived ten forty five through eleven oh five, it also 329 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: covers the role of incense in Chinese culture in general 330 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: at this time. and Um, I'm not going to skip 331 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: over the translated poetry either, because it's the paper points out. 332 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: He's very much leaning into the analysis of how the 333 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: ritual use of incense affects one's state of mind. So here, here's, 334 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: here's the first bit of poetry from wanting gin. A 335 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: sense of peril like wandering ten thousand fathoms, high impatient 336 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: desires engender the five weapons within. I lean on the 337 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: arm rest with a single strand of incense, the numenous ESTRADE. 338 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: This is a spiritual platform, or Dais Dallas de Terminology 339 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: for the mind. Um, the numinous estrade is clear, empty 340 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: and bright. Okay, so it sounds like he's describing an 341 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: association between burning a strand of incense and having a 342 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: kind of clear or elevated state of mind. Yeah, yeah, 343 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: overcoming the fears and anxieties within by being able to 344 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: clear mind, focusing on this, on this smoke, and in 345 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: this it's interesting because this this seems to be focusing 346 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: as much or more on the visual of the smoke, 347 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: which I think is is easy to overlook, but I 348 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: mean not if you guess, if you're really into incense, 349 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: but like watching the smoke from incense rise and curl 350 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: through a room. I mean it's it's it's instantly captivating. Well, yeah, 351 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: a lot of the writings about incense really emphasized the 352 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: smell and that does seem to be, you know, the 353 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: primary sense that's engaged by it. But when you watch 354 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: the smoke, I think that also brings in a lot 355 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: of the ideas of I don't know the kind of 356 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: ideas about religion or consciousness that are associated with it. 357 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: It has to do with watching the smoke rise up 358 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: into the sky and dissipate, which, on one hand, I 359 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: think is a reason why the burning of incense or 360 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: the burning of things in general, was often assumed to 361 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: be a way of communicating with the Gods, you know, 362 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: if the Gods live up above and the skies. I mean, 363 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: not every belief about God's is like that, but many 364 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: people believe the gods are up in the sky and 365 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: the smoke rises up to them. So it's a way 366 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: of reaching them with something you do. But then the 367 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: other thing is like the it's it's an act that 368 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: that you can kind of like watch have a consequence 369 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: that then eventually disappears, like the way that the thing 370 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: burns and then the smoke dissipates in front of your 371 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: eyes is, uh, I don't know, some kind of significant 372 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: transformation or symbol of ephemerality. Yeah, I I saw the 373 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: line drawn in different sources between, uh, the the original 374 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: archaic burning of sacrifices, burnt offerings, and the use, even 375 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: the modern use, of incense, so as whereas one in 376 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: ancient times may have burnt them, you know, the carcass 377 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: of a bull or other sacrificial animal, uh, the the 378 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: this would be a version of that. Instead of burning 379 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: the animal, burning the remains of the animal, burning this sacred, 380 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: sweet smelling substance. Oh, that's not even a connection that 381 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: you have to like hypothesize, like, thinking back on it, 382 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: the connection was made by by some ancient really jens themselves. Like, 383 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: for example, if you look at the Hebrew Bible, there's 384 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: like the first chapter of the book of Leviticus. Uh, 385 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: the Lord is giving instructions to Moses on how to 386 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: perform sacrifices of livestock, and this involves, you know, they'll say, 387 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: you bring in the bull and you do this and 388 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: you do that, and then a few verses later, at 389 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: the beginning of chapter two, it says if somebody's making 390 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: a grain offering instead of an offering of livestock, you 391 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: need to burn incense with the grain. I'M gonna come 392 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: back to that in part two when we discuss the 393 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: idea that God or the Gods do enjoy smells. All right, well, 394 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: let's let's go back into the poetry of lunch Gen here. UH, 395 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: here's another one. That's that's really good. Midday Meal Birds 396 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: Peer at the dais, sitting in peace. The Sun passes 397 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: the steps. Vulgar atmosphere has no way to come near. 398 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: The smoke drifts up and forms a massed defense. Now 399 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: the vulgar atmosphere is not just like the stink here. 400 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: This is apparently, according to the author, this is referring 401 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: to like the vulgar world itself. Um, the in the 402 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: vulgar atmosphere of this world, again setting aside one space, 403 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: one sacred space, from the rest of reality. Now here's 404 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: another one. This one comes back to snails as well 405 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: as honey. Stone honey transforms snails armor. In quint's juice 406 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: is boiled aloes wood from the potion sensor. A lone 407 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: smoke rises. Facing this scene, I shiver with awe. Okay, 408 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: that may sound a little cryptic. So in the paper 409 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: sergeant explains this. That the first line here talking about 410 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: stone honey transforming the snails armor. Uh, it sounds cryptic, 411 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: but this is a reference to the manufacture of a 412 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: particular incense of the day. Then included the operculum of 413 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: a snail's Shell. This is like the like the LID. 414 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: Uh that I think that's sometimes described as looking like 415 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: a like a shriveled black ear, human ear. Um. It's 416 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: treated with wine or honey before it's used in this process. 417 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: And then the potion, he explains, is a vessel for 418 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: burning incense that was introduced in the Hon Dynasty. That 419 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: has a top shaped like the sacred mountain of Mount 420 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: Po Rising out of the sea. And these, these are 421 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: quite beautiful. Definitely look these up. Uh. They're sometimes referred 422 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: to in English as hill sensors and, uh yeah, they're 423 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: just absolutely beautiful, because the mountains are often depicted. The 424 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: peaks of the mountains are are kind of flame like, 425 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: kind of water like. It has this very, you know, 426 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: it mystical appearance to it. It's because this is not 427 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: just a this is not a mundane mountain, this is 428 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: a celestial mountain. This is the place where the Gods live. 429 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: And and also there's kind of like an egg like 430 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: quality to it, especially towards the bottom. Uh, it's it's 431 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: they're they're quite beautiful. Right. Here's another bit of poetry 432 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: twisting and turning. The business of the incense is over 433 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: thick and the it sticks to the books and paintings, 434 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: who can come into my room take off your worldly shackles. 435 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: Now this one I particularly love because it's basically the 436 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: shock quote from the beginning of the episode. Incense books 437 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: just weird. It brings to mind like detachment in the 438 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: learned man's study, like this is where my books are, 439 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: my paintings, and the smell of incense, like this is 440 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: my space. So this is just weird in a positive way. Yeah, yeah, 441 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: that's the way I'm I'm uh interpreting or applying the 442 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: shock quote like, and I guess I'm thinking back to 443 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: some of the various Chinese poets and writers that we've 444 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: discussed in the past who are known even during the 445 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: day for their weirdness, like their elongated finger nails and 446 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: and so forth, their fascination with with the strange and 447 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: the bizarre, like you know, those are the those are 448 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: the souls I really connect with. So I'm like, Yeah, 449 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: incense books and weirdness. For instance, Lee, who comes to mind, 450 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: a Tang poet who lived seven ninety through sixteen. Uh, 451 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: we we've covered some of his writings on the show before. 452 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: He had this wonderful line that goes owls that have 453 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: lived a hundred years turned forest demons laugh wildly as 454 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: an emerald fire leaps from their nests. This is a 455 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: stupid comparison. I don't know why that always makes me 456 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: think of like strawberry alarm clock. Oh, I didn't even 457 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: make the connection incense and peppermints. Than all right. Now. 458 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: The next bit of poetry that Sergeant Brings Up, that 459 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: that I thought was worth mentioning here, goes as follows. 460 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: Pheasant tail fans cover the sound of whips. A golden 461 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: censor brushes against the great purity. Your ranks are near, 462 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: you smell the incense sooner and by the time you 463 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: returned you had mastered it. Okay, so this quote is 464 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: referring to smelling the special incense Um all the emperor 465 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: in the imperial capital Um, which of course, the imperial capital. 466 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: This also has celestial associations because of course the the 467 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: emperor himself, has a has a divine connection in these traditions. 468 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: And the whips that are mentioned here, that's those are 469 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: the whips clearing the way for the emperor's procession. So 470 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: I love how this it paints a nice picture, or well, 471 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: maybe not a nice picture. It paints a distinct picture of, yeah, 472 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: here's the sound of whips giving way to the pheasant 473 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: tail fans, and then here's the burning of this very 474 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: special incense. And Uh and and then there's this idea that, yeah, 475 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: you can smell it and then you can potentially master it. 476 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: And Uh, and this is something that sergeant brings to 477 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: mind here as well. Quote Huangting Jin, close enough to 478 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: the imperial entourage or the high officials to get a 479 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: whiff of the court incense, is expert enough to be 480 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: able to go home and duplicate it on the basis 481 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: of what his nose has analyzed. Oh, he's like the 482 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: guy in that book perfume. Yeah, they're. There are other 483 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: like bits of poetry from this guy where he talks 484 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: about like the craving of Incense. Like this is a 485 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: guy who liked his incense. But, but, but, all these 486 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: various examples. Um, sergeant breaks down the uses of of 487 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: incense that are highlighted in his poetry and he he 488 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: singles out ten of them. Some of them are kind 489 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: of closely related, but I'm going to roll through them 490 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: real quick. Number One, to aid in meditation, blocking external disruptions, 491 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: to a barrier against the vulgar world and an outdoor scene. 492 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: Uh number three, the composite of its ingredients and an 493 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: awe inspiring phenomenon for a baffler against the vulgar world 494 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: and an indoor scene, a kind of connects to two. Five, 495 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: a token of an interpersonal relationship, interesting for the straddled 496 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: social barrier. Number six, the product of another person's skill. 497 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: Uh number seven, an agent to defeat the power of 498 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: sense objects in another person's life. ATE, an object in 499 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: a scene that has a mood but no apparent message. Nine, 500 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: a sign of political status as well as the other 501 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: person's technical skill, again, being able to duplicate that Special 502 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: Imperial Incense that you've caught a whiff of. And then 503 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: also as an attribute of enlightenment. Uh So, I like 504 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: these are all interesting to keep in mind as we 505 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: move move forward with this, with this upcoming example from 506 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: Chinese culture, but also I think some of these can 507 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: be applied, if not all of these can to be 508 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: applied to varying degrees, with other cultural traditions of incense 509 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: as well. I mean, it seems like a number of 510 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: these are oriented around creating a kind of separation or 511 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: spirit of difference, whether that is uh, sort of putting 512 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: yourself in a in a mind space of peace and 513 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: disconnection from the profane world, or in the idea of 514 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: even just like straight up class like you, you are 515 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: a rich and powerful ruler. Thus you are surrounded by 516 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: incense and that sort of marks you as special and different. Yeah, yeah, 517 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,719 Speaker 1: you create a different atmosphere around you. And a lot 518 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: of this also applies to just every day uses of incense. Today, 519 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: like some people when they're writing, they like to burn 520 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: a little incident. Certainly if someone is exercising or or 521 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: practicing yoga or meditation, they may burn some incense as well. 522 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: And Uh, you know, that can also have practical uh 523 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: purposes as well, especially like an exercise class. Exercise, especially 524 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: group exercise, can can have a certain effect on odors 525 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: in the room and you can mask those odors with incense. 526 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: So I mean it's it's kind of UH double per 527 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: dual purpose there. Oh, it's the it's the environmental equivalent 528 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: of don't have time for a shower, better spray the armpits. 529 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, that sounds more like the vulgar world 530 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: to me, but I guess it depends on the incanse. 531 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: I'm not advocating that by the way. I mean, though, 532 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: it does bring up an interesting point. Is something maybe 533 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: we'll have to explore in another episode. But yeah, when 534 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: you get into the whole world of incenses and perfumes, 535 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean perfumes, we could do a whole 536 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: episode on that. There's a rich global history of perfume use. 537 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: Like there are, of course, so many things to take 538 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: into account personal taste even today, but you get into 539 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: historical taste as well, like what constituted a good masking 540 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: body perfume in various cultures and distinct points in time, 541 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: you know, based on available materials. Yeah, totally. Now getting 542 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: back into the into questions of okay, different sensors. Already 543 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: mentioned the the Mount Po Sensor. There's another type of 544 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: sensor that this particular paper mentions, and I had to 545 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: look up examples of it. A Golden Duck was apparently 546 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: a popular sensor for incense during this time and you 547 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: can still see examples of this today. It is exactly 548 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: what it sounds like, a golden or golden looking duck 549 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: um where you can take the top off of the Duck, 550 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: put the incense in there, get the incense burning, put 551 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: the top half of the duck back on and smoke 552 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: will rise out of the duck's mouth. Yeah, that's interesting. 553 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: It almost looks like, uh, I don't know, it symbolize. 554 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: Says that the duck is making a sound or something. Yeah, 555 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: but I think the most for me anyway, the most 556 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: amazing example of of a sensor for incense is that 557 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: of the incense clock, as it's often referred to in English, 558 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: and I was reading a very good summary and article 559 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: about these in J store daily by Amelia Soft titled 560 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: Keeping Time With Incense clocks, citing a few different scholars work, 561 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,959 Speaker 1: but I think one in particular is Andrew B Lou 562 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: and it goes the article goes into detail about these, 563 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: the splendid artifacts that date back at least to the 564 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: sixth century, when a poet by the name of of you, 565 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: John Wu, wrote quote. By Burning Incense we know the o' 566 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: clock of the night. With graduated candle we confirm the 567 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: tally of the watch. That's an English translation, of course, 568 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: but I like the this kind of a novel translation. 569 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: I like by you talking about knowing the o' clock 570 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: of the night. Uh Huh, but again referencing the idea 571 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: that you could create a contraption for burning incense in 572 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: such a way that it had a pretty dependable rate 573 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: of consumption and by that you could tell time right right. 574 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: So that Second Line mentions a candle, and this is, 575 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: I think, a reference to candle as a combustion based 576 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: timekeeping device. But then by burning incense. This is where 577 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: it's really interesting, because this is not it's not it's 578 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: not a case of just having, okay, a super long 579 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: incense stick it will take all night to burn, or 580 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: even a night long spiral of incense. These incense clocks, 581 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: and you'll definitely have to look up an image of these. 582 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: These were ornate metal boxes with lids and compartments that 583 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: contain specialized parts for their use, such as a UH, 584 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: they just the author here describes a little shovel, a 585 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: little damper and also various stencils for the laying out 586 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: of an incense labyrinth within the box. AH, so you're 587 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: making the smoldering and snake around in a maze, that's 588 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: right now winding path of incense, and you have the 589 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: different stencils, not just because you want different shapes but because, 590 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: of course the length of the night changes with the seasons, 591 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,959 Speaker 1: and so different seasons will require a different Stencil, because 592 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: the idea here is again the incense clock burns all night, 593 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: it burns throughout the span of darkness and and you know, 594 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: marks the passage of time via the scent of incense. 595 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: You know. This actually reminds me of a technique I 596 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: have used in a when trying to cook something for 597 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: a long time over low heat and a charcoal grill 598 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: before uh, and the method is essentially the snake. You 599 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: create a kind of winding snake of charcoal and then 600 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: you you put a lit coal on one end, and 601 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: so the idea is that it's not all gonna like, 602 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: catch on fire too fast and make the grill too hot. Instead, 603 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: it will slowly burn into the next coal along the 604 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: way and keep a low temperature as it creeps around 605 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: the snake. Oh Wow, I don't think I've heard of 606 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: that technique before. What, what sorts of things would you 607 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: be cooking over a fire like that? Oh, like, you know, barbecue, basically, 608 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: if you're trying to do something, you know, for a 609 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: long time without it getting too hot. Interesting. Okay, so 610 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: these incense UH clocks, as as they're sometimes referred these 611 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: would these would again burn all night and there were noted. 612 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 1: There were noted use in Beijing's tall drum tower during 613 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: the Qing Dynasty, h four through nineteen, eleven soft sites. 614 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: Another author, a historian of scientific instruments by the name 615 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: of Silvio Bedini, who indicates that one could lay out 616 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: a path of of not just one type of incense 617 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: in one of these clocks, but alternating varieties of incense, 618 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 1: or you could have scented wood chips placed at different 619 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 1: points along the path and this would change the scent 620 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: or have punctuated moments of scent that would be part 621 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: of the olfactory experience of being in the vicinity of 622 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: one of these clocks, so that you could you could 623 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: essentially know what the hour is, know where you are 624 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: in the journey through night based on the scent of 625 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: the air. That's really interesting. So you wouldn't have to 626 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: go look at it and check. Instead, there would be 627 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: a an ambient difference, just like there is in the daytime. 628 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: You can roughly tell what time of day it is by, 629 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: you know, the position of the Sun, what the sky 630 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: feels like in the light and all that, but this 631 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: would allow you to do the same thing at night, 632 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: except through your sense of smell. You just kind of 633 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: have a vibe that it's as roughly, you know, four 634 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: to five am. It's. It's fascinating because we have, you know, 635 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 1: we're such visual creatures. Were certainly more visual than uh, 636 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: than than smell base, but uh, and especially today, like 637 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 1: if you want to know what hour of the night 638 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: it is when you wake up in the night, of 639 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,479 Speaker 1: course we reach for our various timekeeping devices and find out. 640 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: But you know that there's this this, this other approach 641 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: of simply sort of observing the world. And granted, a 642 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,400 Speaker 1: lot of that observation would be visual, but but this 643 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: is tying into a far more, far less visual route, 644 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: though of course you could, I guess, just look at 645 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: the incense clock as well and see where you are 646 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 1: in the journey. So if also references a dragon shaped 647 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: fire clock, they also involved the use of incense and 648 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: this is a different design. It would look like a dragon, 649 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: it would be kind of long and it would have 650 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: a like a trough of incense running through the center 651 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: and as this burned down again, kind of kind of 652 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: like the snaking coals that you described, you know it's 653 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: gonna Start on one end and burn towards the other, 654 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 1: almost like a fuse, but slow, like a slow fuse 655 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: of incense. But along the way they're going to be 656 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: these little threads with metal balls hanging, and so it 657 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 1: will regular intervals burn through those those those little bits 658 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: of thread and make a ball drop into a metal pan, 659 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: producing a sound, and that will mark the passing of 660 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: the hours. Okay, but I like all of this too 661 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: because it also brings to mind this idea of like 662 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: the night is. It's like it's something to keep vigil through. 663 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,800 Speaker 1: You know, you need this sort of sacred time keeping 664 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: in place to get you from from dust to dawn. Yeah, 665 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: so I found all that just super interesting. I was 666 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: not familiar with with incense clocks and I don't think 667 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: I'd really given much thought to combustion based time keeping 668 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: as well, aside from just sort of the the obvious 669 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: environmental factors, and I guess this was probably something as well. 670 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: I mean you go back into into really ancient prehistoric practices. 671 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: You had the camp fire burning and maybe you keep 672 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: that burning all night. Maybe it's a situation where it's 673 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: kept burning Um for much longer, but there is that 674 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: reality of the campfire burning down as time passes after 675 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: you've stopped feeding the fire and then by morning it's 676 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: reduced to nothing, or very little at all. Speaking of which, 677 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: it looks like our incense for this episode has burnt 678 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: all the way through, so we're gonna have to call 679 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: it here. But we'll be back on Thursday with another 680 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: episode dealing with Incense, UH, some of the technology involved 681 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: historically withincense and also other practices of pertaining to incense. 682 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: So be sure to check out part two. I think 683 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 1: it'll be a fun ride. Those are our core episodes, 684 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Monday's we do listener mail, on 685 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: Wednesday we do a short form artifact or monster fact, 686 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: and on Fridays we do weird how cinema. That's our 687 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: time to set aside most serious concerns and just talk 688 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: about a strange film. Huge thanks, as always, to our 689 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: excellent audio producer, Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like 690 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us with feedback on this 691 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the 692 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: future or just to say hello, you can email us 693 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 1: at contact at stuff to blow your mind dot com. 694 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,919 Speaker 1: Stuff to blow your mind. It's production of I heart 695 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: radio for more podcasts for my heart radio at the 696 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: I heart radio APP, APP podcasts, or wherever you listening 697 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows