1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and 2 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Thursday, February twelfth, twenty 3 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: twenty six. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am co 4 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: la He's in New York and Variety has reporters around 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode, 7 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: we'll hear from Variety's Gene Modis on SAG after his 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: contract talks with the major studios and streamers. They've been 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: at it for about two days, and we'll find out 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: what Gene is hearing about, what's going on in that room. 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: And Emily Longaretta joins us to pay tribute to actor 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: James van Derbeek. He left us far too soon at 13 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: the age of forty eight on Wednesday. Before we talk 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: about the hard stuff, here are a few headlines just 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: in this morning that you need to know. You know, 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: the Berlin Film Festival and European Film Market are goinging on. 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: When you see headlines in Variety like Chilean punk rock 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: dramedy being shopped ahead of its festival premiere, Madapunky revolves 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: around a hard living rocker who takes a mysterious drink 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: at a party and gains supernatural powers. Minerva Pictures, based 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: in Rome, is handling sales of the debut feature from 22 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: Diego Fuentes. Speaking of European festivals, the lineup for Series 23 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: Mania next month is coming into focus. The Testaments, who 24 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: lose follow up to The Handmaid's Tale, will open the 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: event in Lil France. Anne Dowd, no less than aunt 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: Lydia herself will be on hand for the event that 27 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: is billed as Europe's largest TV festival herees Mania runs 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: March twentieth through twenty seventh. There was another big passing 29 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: on Wednesday, Ud Court. He was the star of the 30 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 1: beloved nineteen seventy one movie Harold and Maud. That film 31 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: meant as much to its generation as Dawson's Creek means 32 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,279 Speaker 1: to millennials. If you know, you know, I hope somewhere Court, 33 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: Ruth Gordon and director House Lashby are enjoying a nice 34 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: cup of tea. All of these stories and so much 35 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: more can be found on vridy dot com right now 36 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: and now it's time for conversations with Friday journalists. About 37 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: news and trends in show business. Gene Mattis Vriidy's senior 38 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: media writer and our Labor Beat reporter, gives us an 39 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: update on the status of Hollywood's collective bargaining talks. It 40 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: all started on Monday, February ninth, when sag After sat 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: down with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers 42 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: in Sherman Oaks. Gene Mattis, thank you so much for 43 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: joining me. 44 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: Happy to do it. 45 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: Well, you're in that hurry up and wait position a 46 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: major union in this town. Sag After sat down on 47 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: Monday for collective bargaining negotiations for a master film and 48 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: TV contract. It doesn't get more impactful or widespread than 49 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: that contract, which is basically what most actors work under 50 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: for most movies and television shows. But of course they 51 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: have circled the wagons, have a media blackout. What are 52 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: you hearing? What vibes are you getting from the room 53 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: there in Sherman Oaks right now? 54 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: Obviously it's pretty quiet, and I think it's all going 55 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: fairly routinely in the sense of the first day you 56 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: trade proposals and then you take a few days on 57 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: each side to stud an of the other side's proposals, 58 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: So not much happens or as expected to happen, in 59 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 2: the first certainly the first week of negotiations, and they 60 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: are going to bargain through the month and actually through 61 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: I think Mark mark sixth, so they've got some time 62 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: to kind of hash this out. So I wouldn't expect 63 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: any drama really until then, and you know, they may 64 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: decide to punt honestly into June and really tackle the 65 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: serious stuff. 66 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: Then well they do have you know, there is a 67 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: ticking clock element, and there are two other big unions 68 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: in line to get their turn at the table. Is 69 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: there anything you gleaned from the SAG proposal. 70 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: Well, obviously their proposals are confidential at the moment, but 71 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: what we understand they're focused on is, you know, obviously 72 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: the AI piece, you know, specifically on the synthetic performer 73 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: side of it, which is the Tilly Norwood for lack 74 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 2: of a better term, the Tilly Norwood type of character 75 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: where it doesn't look like any particular actor, it's just 76 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: a synthetic amalgamation of other performances. And there's a question 77 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: from seg over how much control can we assert over 78 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: that since it doesn't resemble any of our members directly, 79 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: so like, can we insert ourselves into that and say no, no, no, 80 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: If you're going to do that, you need to pay 81 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: pension and health or you need to pay on top 82 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: of that. And they have actually had success with something 83 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 2: like that with the commercials agreement, and the idea is 84 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: if we can drive up the cost of that, then 85 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: maybe we'll keep our members employed. Because if there's no 86 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: cost savings to be gained by doing a synthetic performer, 87 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: then why do it. So that's a major thing. Obviously. 88 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: Another huge thing is the streaming residual issue and the 89 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: question of streaming bonuses, which I think have been quite 90 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 2: disappointing to a lot of the members that that was 91 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: obviously something that was one in twenty twenty three. You 92 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 2: know this bonus for your residual if your show is 93 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 2: one of the most watched shows. I think that is 94 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: coming in under expectations and there's an attempt to boost 95 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: the figures on that. 96 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: I know you tracked this carefully. It took a bit 97 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: for those coffers to fill up. Of course, under the 98 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,679 Speaker 1: formula where if a show hit a certain predetermined viewership level, 99 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: then everybody would get a bonus, and I know you 100 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: tracked that very carefully. Actors have gotten money from that? 101 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: Or is that still be I have not heard that. 102 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: I have heard that we are in the process and 103 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: the wheels are in motion, and we've got the framework 104 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: set up and where the checks will be going out 105 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: any day now, But I have not actually heard that 106 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 2: someone actually got money from that. 107 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: If there's really been nothing going out from SAG's fund, 108 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: which had its own a different construction than the other guilds, 109 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: that is certainly going to be a discussion at the table. 110 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about the ai of it all. Obviously, 111 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: for actors, the issues with likeness are just enormous. Do 112 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: you have any sense that there is a level of 113 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: anger or concern or a galvanizing issue that actors could 114 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: really get behind and just say this is a line, 115 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: we must have this in our contract. 116 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 2: No, to be brief about it. I think the number 117 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 2: one thing, honestly is that the lack of jobs. So 118 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 2: start with that. 119 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: Now. 120 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: Sometimes you get a sense in the way they talk 121 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 2: about the negotiations going in that we're going to draw 122 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: these red lines and we're going to really fight hard there. 123 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: There has been nothing like that. It has been very 124 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: much like, you know, we think they'll be reasonable and 125 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,799 Speaker 2: will be reasonable and you know, no drama. And honestly, 126 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: they don't have the leverage they would have had three 127 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: years ago when everybody was working and the studios were 128 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: extremely focused on let's keep this thing going as much 129 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: as we can, and so that was a high leverage point. 130 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: When you talk of weakened leverage points, all three guilds, 131 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: to varying degrees, need some help. They need a capital 132 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: influx in their health plans, and it just there's no 133 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: question in the Macavelian world of who has leveraged. When 134 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: you need a significant influx from the person on the 135 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: other side of the table, you just don't have the 136 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: ability to rally as hard about around a single issue 137 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: as animating as AI can be. Let's talk about a 138 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: wrinkle in these talks that has been floated by the 139 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: AMPTP setting a contract that runs longer than three years, 140 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: like four or five years. Of course, the industry has 141 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: for many years now been on a cycle of three 142 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: year deals. Of course management would like to see those 143 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: be longer. They'd like to have a little more peace 144 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: in between contracts. But at this time, especially with all 145 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: that we've been talking about the rapid advance of technology, 146 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: I think anything longer than a three year deal would 147 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: seem like a really hard cell. 148 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: I have not heard any interest in that at all 149 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: from anybody on the union side, So everybody that I've 150 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: heard from on that side has shot it down immediately, 151 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 2: and you know, they might want to at least go 152 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: through the motions of talking about it, but I don't 153 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: see that as it feels like a DOA type proposal 154 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: at this point. 155 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: I would think the only thing that might get it, 156 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: maybe four years could be if the numbers on the 157 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: health plan are even worse than we know, so that 158 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: would seem to be the only outside chance. But the 159 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: specter of technology and AI development, anything beyond three years 160 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: would seem an eternity, and I think a super hard 161 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: sell to the membership. But again, we don't know until 162 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,679 Speaker 1: we know. What do you think is the typical cadence 163 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: of this? They'll probably talk for a few more days 164 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: and then take a break. 165 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: I feel like it's sort of a slow burn, and 166 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: you know, deadline definitely concentrates everybody's minds, and so looking 167 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 2: closer to that March sixth date of like, are we 168 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: close see do we need a few more days maybe 169 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: to work it out, or are we so far apart 170 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: that we need to just put pencils down and then 171 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 2: come back after they talk to WGA, after they talk 172 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: to DJA. So somewhere around first week of March, I 173 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: think we'll have a better idea of how far apart. 174 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: They well at this point. The schedule calls for the 175 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: Writer's Guild of America to sit down on March sixteenth, 176 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: which is just under five weeks away, and it calls 177 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: for the Director's Guild of America to sit down on 178 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: May eleventh, which is three months from today. A lot 179 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: can transpire in between, and Gene, thank you so much 180 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: for being on top of all things involving collective bargaining. 181 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: It's a very complicated beat yep, happy to do it. 182 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: An actor who came to define his generation of TV 183 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: and movies died on Wednesday. James Vanderbeek left us far 184 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: too soon. His boy next Door ambition and vulnerability helped 185 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: make Dawson's Creek an instant sensation in nineteen ninety eight 186 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: when it roared onto the WB Network. In the last 187 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: twenty years, Vanderbeek managed the transition from youthful stardom to 188 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: adult roles about as well as anyone. Emily Longaretta, Variety's 189 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: director of Features, was a big fan and interviewed Vanderbeek 190 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: several times, including at his last public appearance. Longeretta explain 191 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: why the personality known as the Beak became such a 192 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: beloved figure for millennials who embraced Dawson's Creek and Varsity 193 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: Blues as their own. Emily Longeretta, thank you so much 194 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: for joining me. This is a sad and somber occasion. Yes, 195 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: it absolutely is. Thanks for having me on. James Vanderbeek 196 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: died Wednesday at the age of forty eight. This sad 197 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: headline just really hits hard. It just kind of crystallizes 198 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: what Dawson's Creek it represented an absolute moment in time, 199 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: a late nineteen nineties moment in time. It was a 200 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: big show for the WB network, really kind of helped 201 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: establish its worldview of these young adult dramas. Emily, how 202 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: did you feel when you first heard this sad news. 203 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 3: I was absolutely devastated. Dawson's Creek was the show that 204 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 3: made me fall in love with TV. So that's the 205 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 3: reason I have I have a Dawson's Creek tattoo because 206 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 3: it really did change TV for me and for the 207 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 3: WB for sure. And also I think that James Vanderbeek 208 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 3: was the perfect person to lead this. You know, Kevin 209 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 3: Williamson based a lot of the show on his own life, 210 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 3: and he had to find someone who could embody the 211 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 3: character based on himself. And I think something that James 212 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 3: did so beautifully in this was portraying this emotional young 213 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 3: man who is not afraid to not be the jock, 214 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 3: who was not afraid to cry and lean on his 215 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 3: parents and be honest about his love for love and 216 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 3: have this moral center and authenticity about him that really 217 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 3: only James could bring to the character. There wouldn't be 218 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 3: Dawson's Creek without Dawson, and there wouldn't be Dawson without James. 219 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 3: So I think that he took this character that was, 220 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 3: you know, sometimes not people's favorites, yet made it still 221 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: so likable and made a full career out of it. 222 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: I mean, he wasn't just someone who was in a 223 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 3: show once and then you never saw him again. He 224 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 3: went on to do movies like Varsity, Blues and Texas 225 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: Rangers and Rules of Attraction and then appeared in a 226 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 3: ton of TV shows, and I think you know, one 227 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 3: of his other most popular one was Don't Trust the 228 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 3: Being Apartment twenty three, where he prayed a fictionalized version 229 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 3: of himself. He was able to just lean in fully 230 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 3: to the comedy of who he is and poke fun 231 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 3: in a nice way at some of the things he's done. 232 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 3: As being in a teen selp. 233 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: He absolutely did not take himself too seriously and he 234 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: often just I think many times you saw him doing 235 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: stuff for charity, kind of using his voice for the 236 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: right causes. I think this passing really hit me because 237 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: I absolutely remember when the WB network was really excited 238 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: they were introducing this fresh face cast and Columbia TriStar 239 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: was the studio they had. Dawson's had a lot of 240 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: support because you had an outside studio and WB was invested. 241 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: I think they saw this as their friends. You know, 242 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: this is a group of kids in an interesting setting, 243 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: and it was to their credit, to the credit of 244 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: Suzanne Daniels and Jordan Levinth, they saw that there was 245 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: a void in the marketplace. Let me ask you as 246 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: a viewer again, perfectly situated as you were. Can you 247 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: remember what it was about the show, what the style, 248 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: the tone, or the star. What was it that stood 249 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: out to you that made the like, WHOA, I got 250 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: to watch this show. 251 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 3: It was honestly the story. I mean, the stories between 252 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 3: in the character interactions were so incredible and so strong 253 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 3: and so relatable. I think as someone who grew up 254 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 3: in a small town, I think it's really comforting to 255 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 3: see that other people in other small towns around the 256 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 3: world are going through the same thing, and they're going through, 257 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 3: you know, the same kind of issues that might not 258 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 3: seem like these huge issues in big cities, but our 259 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 3: big issue of asking someone to prom or dealing with 260 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 3: a parent who's an addict or something like that that 261 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 3: really really hits home and hits close to home. And 262 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 3: the way that this show was able to just really 263 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 3: be relatable for people watching, I think was the reason 264 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 3: that it hooked me. And the characters were flawed, that 265 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 3: not every character was likable. There were a lot of 266 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 3: things Dawson did that weren't likable, but for some reason, 267 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 3: you really did feel this closeness to these characters and 268 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 3: felt like they were an extension of your family or 269 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 3: your friends, or who you wanted as your family or friends, 270 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: if maybe you were in a bit lonelier that made 271 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 3: you want to keep watching. I mean, I was canceling 272 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 3: plans on Wednesday night night because I wasn't going to 273 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 3: be missing that. And I know I'm not alone. I 274 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: know that's the reason why it was so successful. 275 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: This really was the show that turned the WB and 276 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: then it really went into kind of its peak years 277 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: of cultural influence. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was definitely there 278 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: first in nineteen ninety seven, no question, and then almost 279 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: a year later, Dawson's Creek came along from the guy 280 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: who had written screen Kevin Williamson had this like burgeoning 281 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: career in features. But and at that time, if you 282 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: had traction in features, the last thing you were going 283 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: to do was television for goodness sakes. But this was 284 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: a different generation and Kevin Williamson had a lot of 285 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: stories in him and one of them was Dawson's Creek. 286 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: Just week after week that first season, it put up 287 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: insane numbers in teens and young adults and it was 288 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: pretty much off to the races. Think about that cast. 289 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: Michelle Williams, Katie Holmes, James Vanderbeek, and Joshua Jackson. That's 290 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: four home runs in a. 291 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 3: Row, that's right, and none of them were known at all. 292 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 3: Joshua Jackson was the only one who had done anything 293 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: with Mighty Duck, so he came in feeling like the 294 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 3: experienced one when they just went to the small town 295 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 3: in Wilmington, North Carolina, and everything changed from then on. 296 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: Did you ever do a significant sit down interview with 297 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: James Vanderbeek? 298 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 3: I did, yes, and I actually I did two separate 299 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 3: times with him over the last ten years. But the 300 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 3: last time I saw him was actually his last panel 301 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 3: I moderated in Austin, Texas, where he was living. It 302 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 3: was a Kevin Williamson retrospective on his career, and a 303 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 3: few people from his career came, and James was a 304 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 3: last minute addition because of course it was a couple 305 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 3: of months ago, so he wasn't in the greatest health, 306 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 3: but because Kevin had given him Dawson and had really 307 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 3: helped his career, he said, I'll be there, it doesn't matter, 308 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 3: I'll be fine, And so the morning of he confirmed, 309 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 3: and he was there, his wife was there, four of 310 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 3: his six children were there and he could not have 311 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 3: more positive things to say, and he was in great spirits. 312 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 3: He's just so grateful, and I think him showing up 313 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: for Kevin to honor him as just I would assume 314 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 3: a legacy that he wants to be known for, as 315 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 3: you know, his kindness and his willingness too to be 316 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 3: grateful for other people that have helped. 317 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: Him throughout the way, even in the face of incredible hardship. 318 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: When he went public with his diagnosis with colon cancer, 319 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: which is we all know is very prevalent and so 320 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: awareness is so important, he was very open with that. 321 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: I know this is a big passing for millennials for sure. 322 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: So you know, the world works in mysterious ways, sure does. 323 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: The first mention of James Vanderbeek in Variety's pages came 324 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: on April fifteenth, nineteen ninety four. He's listed in the 325 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: cast of an out of town revival in Connecticut of 326 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: the musical Shenandoah. Three months later, Vanderbeek is mentioned listed 327 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: in the cast of the nineteen ninety five New Line 328 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: Cinema film Angus, opposite Kathy Bates, George C. Scott, Rita Moreno, 329 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: and Chris Owens. Then Vanderbeek went through about a two 330 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: and a half year draught of no mention variety until 331 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: he came charging back on January nineteenth, nineteen ninety eight 332 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: in our review of Dawson's Creek. Our critics singled him 333 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,719 Speaker 1: out high up in the review for giving a quote 334 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: terrific end quote performance. We were right. As we close 335 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: out today's episode, here's a few things we're watching for. 336 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: Don't miss my colleague William RLE's story about his correspondence 337 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: with Maga Embracing Men after he wrote a column comparing 338 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: Bad Bunnies halftime show with the performance of Kid Rock 339 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: at the Turning Point USA event. It's not what you think, 340 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: and Bill handles it with great sensitivity and empathy. Listeners 341 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: of Daily Variety should sign up for our new newsletter, 342 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: What to Hear. It covers news and trends in the 343 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: podcasting world, and it's edited by my great colleague Todd Spangler, 344 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: who is Variety's Business editor. He has covered podcasting since 345 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: its inception. What to Hear is biweekly and it's free, 346 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: so please go to Variety dot com and look for 347 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: email preferences to sign up. And finally, on Friday's strictly 348 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: business podcast, Daily Variety's companion interview show, don't miss my 349 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: colleague Jennifer Moss sit down with FUNKO CEO Josh Simon. 350 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: The interview comes just in time for the Toy Fair 351 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: Trade show to be held in New York, and in fact, 352 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: the conversation is a lot of fun before we go. 353 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: Grats to Ellie Klein, the veteran talent rep has been 354 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: promoted to partner at TFC Management. Klin joined TFC in 355 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one after years as a ten percenter with 356 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: Paradigm's literary division. Thanks for listening. This episode was written 357 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: and reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Gene 358 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: Mattis and Emily longeretta stick Snick's hick Picks. Please leave 359 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: us a review at the podcast platform of your choice. 360 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: Daily Variety will take Monday off for the President's Day holiday, 361 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: so please tune in Tuesday for another episode of Daily Variety.