WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: William Vick Part 2

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<v Speaker 1>School of Humans.

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<v Speaker 2>On January seventeenth, twenty twenty three, at eleven twenty two pm,

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<v Speaker 2>the Johnson County Deputy Coroner arrived at nineteen fifty four

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<v Speaker 2>County Road in Clarksville, Arkansas, and found the body of

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<v Speaker 2>fifty three year old William Vick. Both of William's children,

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<v Speaker 2>his daughter Ashley and his son will said that their

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<v Speaker 2>dad had been in very good general health, but they

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<v Speaker 2>had noticed that William had been choking on his food

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<v Speaker 2>over the last year of his life. It was an

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<v Speaker 2>issue that had been getting worse and worse, and this

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<v Speaker 2>apparently led to him going in for a routine ton

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<v Speaker 2>selectomy a week before his death. Tonsils surgery often happens

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<v Speaker 2>in children. Sometimes it's an emergency, but it can also

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<v Speaker 2>be an elective surgery for adults. It's sometimes recommended if

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<v Speaker 2>a person's tonsils are enlarged, or if there are airway obstructions,

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<v Speaker 2>or if the patient is experiencing frequent throat infections or

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<v Speaker 2>chronic sore throat, and in some other situations. But after

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<v Speaker 2>William was sent home to recover from his operation, he

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<v Speaker 2>began to experience some strange complications. Ashley got a text

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<v Speaker 2>from her father that was concerning. Her dad was texting

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<v Speaker 2>her to say that he was throwing up blood. Then

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<v Speaker 2>he texted her a picture of a sink full of blood.

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<v Speaker 2>Ashley told us that she reached out to her stepmother, Laurinda,

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<v Speaker 2>who had worked as an ear nurse. She said that

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<v Speaker 2>she asked Laurinda to take her father to the hospital,

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<v Speaker 2>but that Lorenda told her that William was stubborn and

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<v Speaker 2>that there was no need for alarm. Later on social media,

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<v Speaker 2>Lorenda posted that this was what she believed at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>and that as a nurse, she knew that rest was

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<v Speaker 2>the best medicine for patients in William's condition, but William

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<v Speaker 2>didn't get better. A few days after that text message,

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<v Speaker 2>William Vick was dead and his death was not an accident.

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<v Speaker 2>The cause of death on William's autopsy was listed as

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<v Speaker 2>a combined mixed prescription and illicit drug toxicity, basically a

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<v Speaker 2>drug overdose. The manner of death was homicide. William's family

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<v Speaker 2>was suspicious of Larenda, but the confession came from someone else.

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<v Speaker 2>It was from Lrenda's mother, Martha MacLean. Martha was seventy

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<v Speaker 2>two years old, apparently terminally ill with throw cancer. And

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<v Speaker 2>lived in a separate structure on William and Lrenda's property,

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<v Speaker 2>and she had written a letter confessing to the murder.

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<v Speaker 2>So why would Lrenda's mother want to hurt William? And

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<v Speaker 2>with her supposedly being frail and ill, would she even

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<v Speaker 2>be physically capable of something like that. I'm Catherine Townsend.

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<v Speaker 2>Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>Helling Gone, I've learned that there's no such thing as

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<v Speaker 2>a small town where murder never happens. I have received

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<v Speaker 2>hundreds of messages from people all around the country asking

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<v Speaker 2>for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families,

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<v Speaker 2>and their communities. If you have a case you'd like

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<v Speaker 2>me and my team to look into, you can reach

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<v Speaker 2>out to us at our Helen Gone Murder line on

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<v Speaker 2>six seven eight seven four four six one four five.

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<v Speaker 2>That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five,

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<v Speaker 2>Or you can send us a message on Instagram at

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<v Speaker 2>Helen gonepot This is Helen Gone Murder Line. According to

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<v Speaker 2>the medical examiner's report, there was no sign of heart

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<v Speaker 2>disease or any other obvious health concern that could have

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<v Speaker 2>caused William's death. The coroner also noted there was no

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<v Speaker 2>blood on the bedroom floor, which they had looked for

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<v Speaker 2>because he had been vomiting up blood days earlier. They

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<v Speaker 2>were looking for whatever could have caused his death, and

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<v Speaker 2>after William's body was sent in for an autopsy and

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<v Speaker 2>the toxicology report came back, they found it. Post mortem

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<v Speaker 2>blood testing showed positive for tramadol, the prescription medication, but

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<v Speaker 2>also lethal levels of laurazapam and massive quantities of morphine

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<v Speaker 2>and codine. William's body was cremated and Lorenda and her

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<v Speaker 2>sons read his ashes without William's daughter, Ashley and his

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<v Speaker 2>son will will had been living with William and Lorenda.

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<v Speaker 2>He had just moved out few days before his father's death.

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<v Speaker 2>Both Ashley and will were left struggling to comprehend exactly

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<v Speaker 2>what happened to their father and how he deteriorated so quickly. Then,

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<v Speaker 2>on January twenty third, twenty twenty three, six days after

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<v Speaker 2>William was found dead on the bedroom floor, their worlds

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<v Speaker 2>got completely rocked again when they found out that Lorenda's mother,

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<v Speaker 2>Martha MacLean, had apparently confessed to their father's murder. I

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<v Speaker 2>need to back up for a minute, because there's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a strange series of events that led to this.

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<v Speaker 2>We said last week that officers rushed to the home

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<v Speaker 2>where William and Larnda lived. As I said, Martha lived

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<v Speaker 2>in a separate structure on the property behind their house.

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<v Speaker 2>William's family members said William and Martha had apparently never

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<v Speaker 2>really gotten along, but they weren't sure why William built

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<v Speaker 2>Martha's house behind where he and Lrenda lived, But apparently

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<v Speaker 2>there was always tension between William and Martha. A police

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<v Speaker 2>officer was doing a wellness check on Martha when they

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<v Speaker 2>found her. She was in distress us She was struggling

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<v Speaker 2>to breathe, with morphine and lauriazapam bottle scattered around her,

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<v Speaker 2>and with a handwritten note next to the bed. But

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<v Speaker 2>the strange series of events actually started earlier than that.

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<v Speaker 2>What happened first was that earlier that same day, on

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<v Speaker 2>January twenty third, Lrenda and a friend of hers named

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<v Speaker 2>Linda went into the prosecuting attorney's office in Clarksville. They

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<v Speaker 2>said they had been trying to contact Martha and that

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<v Speaker 2>she wasn't answering. According to the charging documents, Special Agent

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<v Speaker 2>Matthew Foster from the Arkansas State police was called in.

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<v Speaker 2>This was apparently happening while the police officer was performing

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<v Speaker 2>that welfare check on Martha. He went into her residence

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<v Speaker 2>and found Martha unconscious, holding a pen in one hand,

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<v Speaker 2>and apparently trying to write a note. According to the report,

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<v Speaker 2>Linda Lorenda's friend quote provided a note that stated that

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<v Speaker 2>Martha killed William Vick end quote. Agent Foster also wrote

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<v Speaker 2>in his report that he spoke to Lareenda on that

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<v Speaker 2>same day and that she she told him that her mother, Martha,

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<v Speaker 2>had told Lorinda that she killed William by putting morphine

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<v Speaker 2>and other drugs inside his liquid medicine. The officer's report

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<v Speaker 2>read quote, she was unconscious and was struggling to breathe.

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<v Speaker 2>Next to her was morphine and loizapam bottle. Her hand

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<v Speaker 2>was holding a pen and a note was being written.

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<v Speaker 2>The note stated that she didn't want to hurt anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>End quote. After that, Martha was rushed to the hospital

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<v Speaker 2>and then special Agent Foster executed a search warrant on

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<v Speaker 2>that property. That's when he found another handwritten note. This

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<v Speaker 2>note talked about how Martha had killed William. The note

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<v Speaker 2>stated that Martha had tampered with William's medication, that she

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<v Speaker 2>put morphine, louriza, PAM and other drugs inside of William's

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<v Speaker 2>liquid medicine, and that after William took the medicine and

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<v Speaker 2>while her daughter Lrenda wasn't home, Martha said she went

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<v Speaker 2>inside William's residence and injected him with suxi methonium. The

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<v Speaker 2>note stated that Martha had been planning this for a

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<v Speaker 2>long time and that she originally planned to use a gun,

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<v Speaker 2>but that another family member had taken her gun away

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<v Speaker 2>from her. How did Martha get this drug? Because sex

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<v Speaker 2>and methonium is a paralytic drug. It's a drug that's

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<v Speaker 2>normally used for intubation, so when you're in the hospital

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<v Speaker 2>having a procedure and they need to make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>you don't choke on the tubes when they're put down

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<v Speaker 2>your throat. It's not a drug that would ever normally

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<v Speaker 2>be administered in a non medical setting because it paralyzes

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<v Speaker 2>your muscles and unless you are getting air from another source,

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<v Speaker 2>you literally will not be able to breathe. Now, it

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<v Speaker 2>should be noted here that even though the confession letter

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<v Speaker 2>claimed that Martha had injected William with this drug, according

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<v Speaker 2>to the autopsy report, they did not find a measurable

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<v Speaker 2>trace of sex and methonium, though the report did indicate

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<v Speaker 2>that it would have passed from William's system in a

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<v Speaker 2>short period of time. Even if she did give him

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<v Speaker 2>an injection, it would have been very difficult to come

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<v Speaker 2>because so much time had passed. So police were trying

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<v Speaker 2>to understand more about William's relationships with his wife, Larinda

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<v Speaker 2>and also with his mother in law Martha. As we

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<v Speaker 2>said last week, William was married to his first wife,

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<v Speaker 2>Jesinda for eighteen years. They had two children, Will and Ashley.

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<v Speaker 2>They split up in two thousand and nine, and then

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<v Speaker 2>in early twenty eleven, William met Larinda. William's son Will

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<v Speaker 2>said that his father and Laurinda had met on a

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<v Speaker 2>dating site. Now Ted and Ashley said that they believed

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<v Speaker 2>Larinda had been pressuring William to get will to move out,

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<v Speaker 2>but will said that the weeks before his father passed

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<v Speaker 2>away were for him fairly normal. He admitted he never

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<v Speaker 2>had a particularly close relationship with Larnda, but he said

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<v Speaker 2>that he hadn't noticed anything out of the ordinary in

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<v Speaker 2>those weeks. He did say he had seen Larinda's temper

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<v Speaker 2>flare on numerous occasions, since he was young.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, what caused you to move about?

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<v Speaker 1>But I was only there for the holidays. I stayed

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<v Speaker 1>there a little bit longer, but he was about to

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<v Speaker 1>have surgery, and I decided to come back come a

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<v Speaker 1>week before him had surgery.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so Larinda didn't kick you out. You decided to

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<v Speaker 3>leave on your own.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you feel like Lrenda put any distance between you

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<v Speaker 3>and your dad or did you feel like she encouraged

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<v Speaker 3>the relationship between you and him, or.

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<v Speaker 1>Or which she just kind of dad drul She sort

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<v Speaker 1>of had a mean personality. Wouldn't say she was like

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<v Speaker 1>abusive or anything when I would say that she was

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of a mean person generally. But I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think she's put any distance between us. I don't think it

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<v Speaker 1>was really possible distance between me and my father, but

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<v Speaker 1>from her perspectively.

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<v Speaker 2>Will talked about what he described as Lorenda anger.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll give you a story. Whenever I was younger, So

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<v Speaker 1>me and Lorenda's Unjagger, So Jagger's my stepbrother. So me

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<v Speaker 1>and Jagger when we were playing, I guess things got

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<v Speaker 1>a little rough between us. I think I hit him

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<v Speaker 1>or something, and then I realized I was probably get

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<v Speaker 1>in trouble for us. So I ran into my room

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<v Speaker 1>and lost it, but Lorenda got in and pushed me

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<v Speaker 1>to the then like hit my stomach exactly where Jagger

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<v Speaker 1>where I hit Jagger, which I think was probably not

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<v Speaker 1>something adult to due to a kid. I mean there

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<v Speaker 1>were other times where she was just very unsociable. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean she didn't do that when I got older, obviously. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>she would get really mad sometimes it was really randomly.

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<v Speaker 2>Will also said that about a year before his father's death,

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<v Speaker 2>something disturbing happened. He said that his father had said

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<v Speaker 2>to will that he believed Lorenda inchecked him with something

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<v Speaker 2>when he was sick, but William said he wasn't sure

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<v Speaker 2>what it was.

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<v Speaker 1>He doesn't know what it was because he was like

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<v Speaker 1>thick and delirious at the time, but he wasn't even

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<v Speaker 1>really sure. Yeah, if it happened, thought he was pretty

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<v Speaker 1>sure it happened. So when he told me the story

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<v Speaker 1>about her possibly injecting him with something, he told me

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<v Speaker 1>that he's tied in a weird service as it was

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<v Speaker 1>probably with Linda.

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<v Speaker 2>Will said at the time his father was very sick,

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<v Speaker 2>so he thought he might have possibly been delirious. Afterwards,

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<v Speaker 2>will said his father didn't mention it again.

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<v Speaker 1>At first. He wasn't even sure himself did it really happened.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't assure himself. You don't want to believe someone

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<v Speaker 1>would do something like that, especially someone you're married with,

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<v Speaker 1>and they put a bed list every night. He said

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<v Speaker 1>that he was and he can get injected twice that night.

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<v Speaker 1>Letter claim that my dad was having an allergic reaction

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<v Speaker 1>to something, even though I've never noticed that that allergies

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<v Speaker 1>to anything, and that she was giving him inject him

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<v Speaker 1>with some sort of allergy list. I don't even know what.

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<v Speaker 1>He didn't get in much detail.

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<v Speaker 2>Then Tom went by and things to go back to normal.

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<v Speaker 2>Will said that his father was in good health, but

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<v Speaker 2>like his sister Ashley, he mentioned that William would choke

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<v Speaker 2>when he was eating.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes when he was eat it would choke him. It

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<v Speaker 1>was chosing tome. He wouldn't be able to eat it,

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<v Speaker 1>but he looked like basically peeked the food back up

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<v Speaker 1>so they couldn't breathe, and it just got work and

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<v Speaker 1>was over that year.

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<v Speaker 2>Will lived with Lrenda and his father for most of

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<v Speaker 2>the year. In twenty twenty two, he then left for

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<v Speaker 2>a period of time, but he said that he came

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<v Speaker 2>back for the Thanksgiving in Christmas holidays that year. He

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<v Speaker 2>was still staying there into January of twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>Will said that he left William and Larenda's home for

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<v Speaker 2>good just a week before his father died. He said

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<v Speaker 2>that he was shocked when he learned that his father

0:13:53.405 --> 0:13:57.205
<v Speaker 2>passed away. His mother, Jacinda, had gotten the call from

0:13:57.245 --> 0:14:01.405
<v Speaker 2>Will's sister, Ashley. Ashley told us last week that even

0:14:01.445 --> 0:14:04.285
<v Speaker 2>though her parents had their issues over the years, and

0:14:04.365 --> 0:14:07.605
<v Speaker 2>that breaking up their marriage was difficult, that they were

0:14:07.725 --> 0:14:10.405
<v Speaker 2>married for a long time, they had children in history

0:14:10.885 --> 0:14:12.845
<v Speaker 2>and still had a lot of love for each other.

0:14:13.725 --> 0:14:15.885
<v Speaker 1>I love my mom. I live living in Missouri at

0:14:15.885 --> 0:14:19.805
<v Speaker 1>the time. And my mom comes home and I go

0:14:19.925 --> 0:14:22.685
<v Speaker 1>to Greeter and she's just like prus has passed me.

0:14:23.045 --> 0:14:27.765
<v Speaker 1>She's crying, and she goes into the room that her

0:14:27.805 --> 0:14:32.285
<v Speaker 1>and my stepfather there, and they come back out called

0:14:32.365 --> 0:14:34.805
<v Speaker 1>me into the living room, and that's where she breaks

0:14:34.845 --> 0:14:36.725
<v Speaker 1>the news to me. Disn't got breaks the moves that

0:14:36.845 --> 0:14:40.605
<v Speaker 1>my father had passed away that night. He was sick

0:14:40.885 --> 0:14:44.885
<v Speaker 1>before and he was like spitting out blood and stuff,

0:14:45.765 --> 0:14:47.925
<v Speaker 1>and I had tried to convince him I love with

0:14:48.005 --> 0:14:52.365
<v Speaker 1>my sister that he needed to go to the hospital

0:14:52.565 --> 0:14:55.925
<v Speaker 1>because he just had a surgery. And then immediately after

0:14:55.925 --> 0:14:58.925
<v Speaker 1>the surgery, him being a very stubborn person, he decided

0:14:58.965 --> 0:15:02.765
<v Speaker 1>to do a bunch of yard works, which was not

0:15:02.845 --> 0:15:03.405
<v Speaker 1>a good idea.

0:15:03.445 --> 0:15:06.885
<v Speaker 4>You have done that, but a couple of days after

0:15:06.925 --> 0:15:10.205
<v Speaker 4>he kept sitting up blood and stuff, and that's not good.

0:15:10.405 --> 0:15:13.365
<v Speaker 4>That's not you know, it's not supposed to be doing that.

0:15:14.925 --> 0:15:16.725
<v Speaker 4>So we try to convince them to go to the hospital,

0:15:16.805 --> 0:15:22.045
<v Speaker 4>but Lorenda convinced him not to go, even though her

0:15:22.125 --> 0:15:24.725
<v Speaker 4>being a nurse, she should have known better.

0:15:25.685 --> 0:15:29.205
<v Speaker 1>And I told him directly in text and on a

0:15:29.285 --> 0:15:31.805
<v Speaker 1>phone call that man, it's like she's trying to kill you.

0:15:31.925 --> 0:15:34.205
<v Speaker 1>Like she's trying to kill you right now, stop listening

0:15:34.205 --> 0:15:37.725
<v Speaker 1>to her, stopping stubborn, go go to the hospital. But

0:15:37.885 --> 0:15:39.645
<v Speaker 1>he didn't, and he ended up dead.

0:15:41.085 --> 0:15:44.845
<v Speaker 2>Even though will said he is suspicious of Lorenda, will

0:15:44.925 --> 0:15:47.365
<v Speaker 2>did have quite a bit to say about the relationship

0:15:47.485 --> 0:15:51.885
<v Speaker 2>between Martha and William. He said Martha hated his father.

0:15:52.405 --> 0:15:55.885
<v Speaker 1>There were plenty of interactions where you could just tell Martha,

0:15:56.445 --> 0:15:59.645
<v Speaker 1>you're not like my dad, and my dad felt equally

0:15:59.685 --> 0:16:01.405
<v Speaker 1>the same towards her.

0:16:02.245 --> 0:16:05.405
<v Speaker 3>Do you say in your opinion that it is talk

0:16:06.245 --> 0:16:07.645
<v Speaker 3>that Martha's.

0:16:09.085 --> 0:16:12.285
<v Speaker 1>Did they have killed your fathers and not alone. I'm

0:16:12.285 --> 0:16:14.205
<v Speaker 1>not saying that she was a part of it Bomtal,

0:16:14.245 --> 0:16:15.965
<v Speaker 1>but she didn't wall unless she worked do it.

0:16:16.645 --> 0:16:20.405
<v Speaker 3>What was her gerald stay of health at the time

0:16:21.005 --> 0:16:21.725
<v Speaker 3>that you went.

0:16:23.445 --> 0:16:25.205
<v Speaker 1>When she was an old woman and she had been

0:16:25.205 --> 0:16:30.445
<v Speaker 1>smoking since forever, I suppose apparently she had a broke

0:16:30.525 --> 0:16:32.125
<v Speaker 1>cancer as well, which I didn't even fell about.

0:16:33.685 --> 0:16:44.965
<v Speaker 2>So why would Martha Lrenda's mother want to hurt William?

0:16:45.205 --> 0:16:48.685
<v Speaker 2>Larenda and William married on December third, twenty eleven, after

0:16:48.805 --> 0:16:52.125
<v Speaker 2>dating for just a few months. Lrenda's children lived in

0:16:52.165 --> 0:16:56.045
<v Speaker 2>Ocean Springs, Mississippi, and Lareinda was an only child, so

0:16:56.165 --> 0:16:59.245
<v Speaker 2>at her home it was just her, William and Martha.

0:16:59.805 --> 0:17:03.765
<v Speaker 2>Will William's son said he observed that Martha was not

0:17:03.925 --> 0:17:09.365
<v Speaker 2>in good health, but what exactly was Martha's medical condition?

0:17:10.285 --> 0:17:12.925
<v Speaker 2>Martha had told family members that she went in for testing.

0:17:14.285 --> 0:17:17.605
<v Speaker 2>Was she actually terminally ill? She seemed to have told

0:17:17.645 --> 0:17:21.085
<v Speaker 2>some people that she was, but she also apparently told

0:17:21.085 --> 0:17:24.205
<v Speaker 2>some family members that the doctors weren't able to finish

0:17:24.285 --> 0:17:26.725
<v Speaker 2>the test because she had blood in her throat. The

0:17:26.765 --> 0:17:30.005
<v Speaker 2>family had a talk with the prosecutor, Jeff Phillips, in

0:17:30.045 --> 0:17:33.405
<v Speaker 2>which he indicated that he believed Lrenda played a role

0:17:33.445 --> 0:17:36.605
<v Speaker 2>in William's death, but he said he planned to only

0:17:36.725 --> 0:17:40.965
<v Speaker 2>charge Martha with murder. According to the family, this was

0:17:41.085 --> 0:17:45.045
<v Speaker 2>because the prosecutor apparently believed that if he charged Martha

0:17:45.085 --> 0:17:48.765
<v Speaker 2>before she died, Lrenda would be under suspicion as well,

0:17:49.365 --> 0:17:51.645
<v Speaker 2>and that that would kind of hang over her and

0:17:51.765 --> 0:17:56.525
<v Speaker 2>possibly affect Larenda's ability to collect on life insurance. Remember

0:17:56.645 --> 0:17:59.765
<v Speaker 2>we said last week that before he died, William had

0:17:59.765 --> 0:18:02.325
<v Speaker 2>two life insurance policies out on him for a total

0:18:02.325 --> 0:18:04.765
<v Speaker 2>of eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and his family

0:18:04.805 --> 0:18:09.365
<v Speaker 2>was asking questions about those policies. During the talk that

0:18:09.525 --> 0:18:11.925
<v Speaker 2>Ted and Ashley and some other family members had with

0:18:11.965 --> 0:18:16.245
<v Speaker 2>the prosecutor, Ted said that Jeff Phillips, the prosecutor, had

0:18:16.285 --> 0:18:20.805
<v Speaker 2>referred to Lrenda as the black widow. Let's take a

0:18:20.805 --> 0:18:24.645
<v Speaker 2>closer look at this confession letter, because if Martha's story

0:18:24.725 --> 0:18:26.845
<v Speaker 2>is true, that she was the one who murdered William

0:18:26.845 --> 0:18:29.005
<v Speaker 2>and that she acted alone, how did she get access

0:18:29.045 --> 0:18:33.125
<v Speaker 2>to William's medicines in the first place. Lrenda told investigators

0:18:33.165 --> 0:18:36.485
<v Speaker 2>after she got home while William was recovering, she tried

0:18:36.485 --> 0:18:38.805
<v Speaker 2>to give William his steroids and that he refused to

0:18:38.805 --> 0:18:42.845
<v Speaker 2>take them. After that, Larenda claimed she gave William's drugs

0:18:42.885 --> 0:18:46.045
<v Speaker 2>to her mother. Then Martha claimed in her confession that,

0:18:46.165 --> 0:18:50.205
<v Speaker 2>unbeknownst to Larnda or anyone else, she swapped William's steroid

0:18:50.285 --> 0:18:53.565
<v Speaker 2>medication out with morphine, and that she administered that morphine

0:18:53.645 --> 0:18:57.085
<v Speaker 2>in order to kill William. We're also unclear, by the way,

0:18:57.165 --> 0:19:00.565
<v Speaker 2>exactly where the morphine came from. As we said last week,

0:19:00.605 --> 0:19:04.165
<v Speaker 2>we don't have access to William's prescriptions. But even if

0:19:04.205 --> 0:19:06.645
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't prescribed these drugs rugs, they may have been

0:19:06.685 --> 0:19:09.005
<v Speaker 2>drugs that were kept in the home. The issue is

0:19:09.085 --> 0:19:13.645
<v Speaker 2>also complicated because Martha was supposedly terminally ill. Apparently she

0:19:13.685 --> 0:19:16.685
<v Speaker 2>was on hospice care, so the drugs could have been

0:19:16.765 --> 0:19:20.485
<v Speaker 2>drugs she was prescribed. We just don't know. And there's

0:19:20.525 --> 0:19:24.805
<v Speaker 2>still the question of motive again, why would Martha want

0:19:24.805 --> 0:19:29.165
<v Speaker 2>to hurt William. William's family believes that Lrenda may have

0:19:29.245 --> 0:19:32.445
<v Speaker 2>convinced Martha that William was abusive. We talked about that

0:19:32.565 --> 0:19:36.325
<v Speaker 2>last week that Ashley said her father had zero history

0:19:36.325 --> 0:19:40.245
<v Speaker 2>of being physically or emotionally abusive, But she said that Lrenda,

0:19:40.325 --> 0:19:43.485
<v Speaker 2>in her opinion, was creating a narrative where her father

0:19:43.605 --> 0:19:47.085
<v Speaker 2>was being described as abusive. Now again, I have to say,

0:19:47.285 --> 0:19:50.285
<v Speaker 2>Lorenda has not been arrested or charged in connection with

0:19:50.285 --> 0:19:53.685
<v Speaker 2>William's death. She's declined to comment and referred all calls

0:19:53.685 --> 0:19:56.845
<v Speaker 2>to her attorney. Her mother, Martha, is the one who

0:19:56.845 --> 0:20:01.365
<v Speaker 2>confessed to William's murder, So in their discussions with the prosecutor,

0:20:01.805 --> 0:20:05.805
<v Speaker 2>William's family claimed that they discussed that scenario if it

0:20:05.925 --> 0:20:08.685
<v Speaker 2>was Martha, What if Lorenda had played a role. What

0:20:08.765 --> 0:20:12.085
<v Speaker 2>if Lrenda, for example, convinced her mother that she was

0:20:12.125 --> 0:20:15.205
<v Speaker 2>in some type of imminent danger from William. Would that

0:20:15.245 --> 0:20:19.285
<v Speaker 2>be enough to convince Martha to kill Could Martha, who

0:20:19.365 --> 0:20:21.965
<v Speaker 2>was very ill and only had a little bit of

0:20:22.045 --> 0:20:24.645
<v Speaker 2>time left, have taken the fall for her daughter. That

0:20:24.765 --> 0:20:28.725
<v Speaker 2>was another possibility they say they discussed. William's family said

0:20:28.845 --> 0:20:31.725
<v Speaker 2>they also discussed with the prosecutor the issue of having

0:20:31.725 --> 0:20:35.605
<v Speaker 2>two suspects. That's a scenario in complication We've talked about

0:20:35.645 --> 0:20:38.925
<v Speaker 2>many times in reporting this podcast, But they say the

0:20:38.965 --> 0:20:43.725
<v Speaker 2>prosecutor assured them that filing charges against one suspect would

0:20:43.725 --> 0:20:46.925
<v Speaker 2>not hinder their office's ability to file charges against someone

0:20:46.925 --> 0:20:50.245
<v Speaker 2>else at a later date. I want to go back

0:20:50.285 --> 0:20:54.325
<v Speaker 2>to Martha's confession letter for a minute. Martha confessed to

0:20:54.445 --> 0:20:59.245
<v Speaker 2>doctoring William's pills, but that confession letter also stated that

0:20:59.285 --> 0:21:03.965
<v Speaker 2>she gave William an injection. So if the injection was fatal,

0:21:04.685 --> 0:21:07.765
<v Speaker 2>how likely a scenario was it that William would have

0:21:07.805 --> 0:21:10.565
<v Speaker 2>allowed Lorenda's mother and not Lorenda, the one with the

0:21:10.645 --> 0:21:15.005
<v Speaker 2>nursing license, to administer him an injection. Remember, everyone said

0:21:15.045 --> 0:21:18.005
<v Speaker 2>they didn't like each other. Why in this scenario would

0:21:18.005 --> 0:21:21.485
<v Speaker 2>William allow Lorenda's mother to come in with a syringe

0:21:21.525 --> 0:21:26.805
<v Speaker 2>of something and inject him. How likely is that scenario? Also,

0:21:27.125 --> 0:21:31.005
<v Speaker 2>if Martha was terminally ill and frail, could Martha even

0:21:31.045 --> 0:21:35.085
<v Speaker 2>make it upstairs by herself? William's bedroom was upstairs. It

0:21:35.165 --> 0:21:37.605
<v Speaker 2>turns out that how frail Martha was kind of depends

0:21:37.605 --> 0:21:41.245
<v Speaker 2>on who you ask. Remember, William's family claimed that Martha

0:21:41.325 --> 0:21:44.965
<v Speaker 2>was infirmed that she needed assistance getting around, and she

0:21:45.005 --> 0:21:48.165
<v Speaker 2>apparently claimed to be terminally ill with throat cancer. But

0:21:48.405 --> 0:21:53.085
<v Speaker 2>according to Jeff Phillips, the prosecutor, the coroner's investigators told

0:21:53.165 --> 0:21:56.565
<v Speaker 2>him they witnessed Martha walk upstairs twice while they were there.

0:21:58.005 --> 0:22:01.885
<v Speaker 2>Another issue that came up was when the prosecutor claimed

0:22:02.005 --> 0:22:04.885
<v Speaker 2>there was a problem with jurisdiction. The jurisdiction for the

0:22:04.885 --> 0:22:07.485
<v Speaker 2>case turns out to be a little bit complicated because

0:22:07.525 --> 0:22:09.885
<v Speaker 2>William lived in Johnson County and that's where his body

0:22:09.925 --> 0:22:13.005
<v Speaker 2>was found. But Jeff Phillips stated that because William had

0:22:13.045 --> 0:22:16.165
<v Speaker 2>once worked as a sheriff's deputy for Johnson County, even

0:22:16.245 --> 0:22:19.325
<v Speaker 2>though it was years earlier, that if Johnson County handled

0:22:19.325 --> 0:22:22.325
<v Speaker 2>the case there would be a conflict of interest. Because

0:22:22.325 --> 0:22:24.285
<v Speaker 2>of that, the case was turned over to the Arkansas

0:22:24.365 --> 0:22:28.605
<v Speaker 2>State Police. That's another thing that William's family has questions about.

0:22:29.965 --> 0:22:33.565
<v Speaker 2>While all this was going on, Martha was recovering, she

0:22:33.685 --> 0:22:36.165
<v Speaker 2>was getting ready to get discharged from the hospital. The

0:22:36.245 --> 0:22:40.125
<v Speaker 2>prosecutor was getting ready to file capital murder charges against

0:22:40.165 --> 0:22:44.525
<v Speaker 2>Martha MacLean. But the prosecutor had an issue because, apparently,

0:22:44.565 --> 0:22:48.445
<v Speaker 2>according to William's family, the county doesn't have hospice care

0:22:48.525 --> 0:22:52.245
<v Speaker 2>in jail, so they had to find a responsible party

0:22:52.285 --> 0:22:54.285
<v Speaker 2>to take care of Martha once she was released from

0:22:54.245 --> 0:22:59.965
<v Speaker 2>the hospital. Lorenda was her only child, so even though

0:23:00.205 --> 0:23:03.445
<v Speaker 2>murder charges were being filed against Martha and she was

0:23:03.525 --> 0:23:07.285
<v Speaker 2>at that time a prime suspect and William's murder, she

0:23:07.445 --> 0:23:10.365
<v Speaker 2>was sent home to recover, which meant that she was

0:23:10.405 --> 0:23:14.485
<v Speaker 2>sent home to Lrenda's care. Just a few hours later,

0:23:15.245 --> 0:23:19.925
<v Speaker 2>Martha McLean died of a drug overdose. I'm Katherine Townsend.

0:23:20.485 --> 0:23:24.845
<v Speaker 2>This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murderline is

0:23:24.845 --> 0:23:27.885
<v Speaker 2>a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's

0:23:27.925 --> 0:23:31.005
<v Speaker 2>written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by

0:23:31.045 --> 0:23:34.645
<v Speaker 2>Gabby Watts and Miranda Hawkins. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs

0:23:34.685 --> 0:23:38.525
<v Speaker 2>for her research assistance. Noah camer mixed and scored this episode.

0:23:38.885 --> 0:23:42.485
<v Speaker 2>Our theme song is by Ben Sale, Executive producers of

0:23:42.565 --> 0:23:46.645
<v Speaker 2>Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Else Crowley. Listen to Helen

0:23:46.685 --> 0:23:49.445
<v Speaker 2>Gone ad free by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime

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<v Speaker 2>Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you were interested in

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<v Speaker 2>seeing documents and materials from the case, you can follow

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<v Speaker 2>the show on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. If you have

0:24:00.045 --> 0:24:02.165
<v Speaker 2>a case you'd like me and my team to look into,

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<v Speaker 2>you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone

0:24:04.165 --> 0:24:06.805
<v Speaker 2>murder line at six seven eight eight seven four four

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<v Speaker 2>six one four five that six seven eight seven four

0:24:10.565 --> 0:24:12.405
<v Speaker 2>four six one four five

0:24:16.605 --> 0:24:17.525
<v Speaker 1>School of Humans