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Speaker 1: If you understood how much of your stuff is tracked

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Speaker 1: right now inside this system, and you think it isn't.

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Speaker 1: All of these connected systems are all part of that

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Speaker 1: centralized control you are inside of that. Where are you

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Speaker 1: safe in a centralized system that takes all of its

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Speaker 1: control you through manipulated money? What is safe? Good luck?

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Speaker 2: Over the last five years, the dollar has crashed to

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Speaker 2: a point that it buys you fifty percent of those groups.

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Speaker 2: So what you're afraid of has already happened. Are you

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Speaker 2: thinking this is something more drastic coming that is going

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Speaker 2: to happen sooner than later.

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Speaker 1: We know for sure money is being debased. We know

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Speaker 1: for sure you have a decentralized, secure protocol founded by

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Speaker 1: energy that can't be changed. Bitcoin is repricing the world

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Speaker 1: through the free market. It's the first global free market

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Speaker 1: that's ever existed. Bitcoin would be the only thing remaining

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Speaker 1: of value if we've never lived in a free market

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Speaker 1: and our actions inside the other system are trying to

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Speaker 1: get rich in a zero sum game where somebody has

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Speaker 1: to lose because we won every single asset we're trading,

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Speaker 1: than that system is really just a bet on how

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Speaker 1: much is somebody else is going to lose because I'm

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Speaker 1: going to win all on a centralized system and there's

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Speaker 1: no way to fix them. The rate of improvement of AI,

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Speaker 1: it will never be this slow again. It will never

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Speaker 1: be this dumb again. If you don't use it, other

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Speaker 1: businesses are going to use it to provide more value

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Speaker 1: and it's going to remove labor at a staggering rate.

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Speaker 2: All right, jeff Man, we had such a fun time

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Speaker 2: hanging out in Abu Dhabi back in December. It seems

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Speaker 2: like a world away at this point, and we had

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Speaker 2: this conversation where we went outside and hung out for

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Speaker 2: a little bit and I had a video guy there

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Speaker 2: and we tried to capture the conversation and it just

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Speaker 2: didn't come out. The audio just wasn't good enough. And

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Speaker 2: since that time, it's been not even ninety days yet,

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Speaker 2: so much of the world has changed. We were talking

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Speaker 2: about bitcoin AI and AI agents, and since that time

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Speaker 2: we've seen just the rise of this takeoff, and we've

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Speaker 2: seen now multiple at least I've seen sure you have

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Speaker 2: as well, multiple instances of AI agents going out and

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Speaker 2: completing tasks autonomously and using bitcoin lightning to do transactions.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you've seen.

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Speaker 1: This, Yeah, yeah, I have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. At that conference, I made the case that I

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Speaker 2: think maybe one of the big use cases of a

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Speaker 2: medium exchange might come from the machines, because they need

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Speaker 2: a money that we that they don't have a they

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Speaker 2: don't have a solution for at this point, and bitcoin

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Speaker 2: seems to maybe solve that problem. Being personalists for example,

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Speaker 2: high frequency transactions things like that, what do you think

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Speaker 2: about how fast that space is growing and maybe it's

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Speaker 2: necessity or you know, needing bitcoin or something like that

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Speaker 2: to work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was our conversation. Was fantastic, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's a part of it. But but I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's a key part of that medium of exchange.

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Speaker 1: I think ultimately, ultimately built bitcoin is repricing the world

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Speaker 1: through the free market. It's the first global free market

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Speaker 1: that's ever existed. And like, if you want to talk

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Speaker 1: about prices falling now or what, like, really what it's

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Speaker 1: doing is it's lagging the It's the canary in the

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Speaker 1: coal mine to a deflationary spiral of it out of

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Speaker 1: a credit system that would would reset everything. And so

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Speaker 1: in that event, bitcoin would be the only thing remaining

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Speaker 1: of value. And you know that I know that, and

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Speaker 1: so then when when that, Because that that credit system

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Speaker 1: that we live in cannot be allowed to deflate without

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Speaker 1: a complete collapse, you're going to see a massive liquidity

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Speaker 1: or as that big print or the big distribute, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: or anything that we want to talk about it or

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Speaker 1: lynn Alden that nothing stopped sys train. All of this

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Speaker 1: is the same thing, right that the existing credit based

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Speaker 1: system requires manipulation at exponential rates to offset the productivity

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Speaker 1: that should flow to us in the form of lower

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Speaker 1: prices through through AI and everything and everything else that

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Speaker 1: we're building. So so taken, yes, I do think there

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Speaker 1: is there is a case that some of these agents

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Speaker 1: will use kind of lightning, and this is a medium

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Speaker 1: of exchange. But the bigger, I think, the bigger change,

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Speaker 1: the far greater change, is all prices are falling relative

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Speaker 1: to bitcoin and and so essentially the energy backed system

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Speaker 1: that's that can't be broken is repricing the world, and

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Speaker 1: most people are pricing that energy backed system from a

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Speaker 1: piece of paper that's being manipulated.

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Speaker 2: That's happening, We're witnessing it. I think I remember, man,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't that a few months ago one of my

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Speaker 2: friends called me at night kind of panicking and he

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Speaker 2: saw something on the news, and what is this, like,

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Speaker 2: the Dollar's going to crash? Am I going to wake

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Speaker 2: up one day and the money in my bank's going to

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Speaker 2: buy me, you know, fifty percent half as much goods

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Speaker 2: as it does right now. And I said, well, that's

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Speaker 2: already happened over the last five years. The dollar has

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Speaker 2: crashed to a point that it buys you fifty percent

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Speaker 2: of those goods. So what you're afraid of has already happened.

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Speaker 2: Whereas people think it's like this imminent thing though, where

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Speaker 2: it's going to happen, I think it's happening. It's like

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Speaker 2: a process more than an event, maybe unless it's like

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Speaker 2: the gradually and then suddenly part which at some point

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Speaker 2: diminishing returns I guess fall off of a cliff. But

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Speaker 2: I mean, are you seeing this? I mean, obviously it

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Speaker 2: seems to be accelerating, especially based off of where we're

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Speaker 2: at right now at the time of this recording March tenth,

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Speaker 2: But are you thinking this is something more drastic coming

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Speaker 2: that is going to happen sooner than later.

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Speaker 1: I think it's exactly what you just described. This has been,

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting to watch people talk about bitcoin and

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Speaker 1: everything and the existing financial system through a light switch

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Speaker 1: moment rather than what's happening all of the time. We

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Speaker 1: know for sure money is being debased. We know for

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Speaker 1: sure you have a decentralized, a secure protocol bounded by

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Speaker 1: energy that can't be changed. So both of those things

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Speaker 1: are depending on your reality is what you're actually seeing.

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Speaker 1: And so if you've been in bitcoin for five years,

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Speaker 1: you know what's happened over the last five years. If

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Speaker 1: you've been in bitcoin for ten years, you know what's

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Speaker 1: happened over the last ten years. If you're in bitcoin

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Speaker 1: five years from now, you know it's going to happen,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to happen in a faster rate until like, yes,

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Speaker 1: depending on what country you're in, there's going to be

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Speaker 1: some missed, some massive dislocations and repricing events that could

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Speaker 1: happen a lot faster. Right, that's just a failure of

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Speaker 1: a currency that could I suspect the US currency is

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Speaker 1: not going to fail anytime soon. So it's going but

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Speaker 1: but it might print a lot more right and get

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Speaker 1: away with it, and which would lead to a significant

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Speaker 1: rise in at least in that currency's point of view.

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Speaker 1: To Bitcoin. It just it fasts andates me watching people

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Speaker 1: grapple with the one thing, like every day there's a

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Speaker 1: new thing that they're saying. This is the reason when

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Speaker 1: fundamentally nothing has changed for the last fifteen years. You

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Speaker 1: knew one system was insolvent, it couldn't resolve resolve this problem.

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Speaker 1: You knew that the system transition was underway. And so

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Speaker 1: if you're mostly outside the system, if you're in bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: these these dips just provide opportunity to accumulate more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess just you know, not everybody has that certainty, right,

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Speaker 2: Not everybody has that level of conviction, nor does anybody

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Speaker 2: have the ability to tell the future either, And so

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Speaker 2: I think then it probably comes down to the level

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Speaker 2: of conviction and certainty that you have around that.

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Speaker 1: And so so let's let's dig a little deeper on there.

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Speaker 1: And because that's where the why this is, I think

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Speaker 1: this is why it has It doesn't actually say anything

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Speaker 1: about bitcoin. Bitcoin is just a ledger that every ten

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Speaker 1: minutes there's a new block that is bounded by energy.

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Speaker 1: You're you're grappling with something that is imposing a discipline

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Speaker 1: on a world without discipline, because it's because it's like this.

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Speaker 1: So the conviction is driven by this. I would I

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Speaker 1: would venture to say the only conviction you would have

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Speaker 1: to what you should spend all your time on is

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Speaker 1: can Bitcoin stay the centralized and secure? Because if it,

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Speaker 1: if it can or if it does, and you're waiting

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Speaker 1: your probability probabilistic waiting of whether it does or not,

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Speaker 1: it's actually the only thing that matters. And what we

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Speaker 1: just described, there is nothing else that matters. If and

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Speaker 1: you could say, I believe governments are going to attack it,

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Speaker 1: I believe quantum is going to break at I believe,

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Speaker 1: and all of those are beliefs, and you could assign

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Speaker 1: a different probability. But if it stays decentralized and secure,

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Speaker 1: it actually doesn't. It makes no difference. It is reprising

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think obviously we agree on that. I

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Speaker 2: think back to just people not developing that conviction. We're

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Speaker 2: still seeing a world where people are pushing XRP not

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Speaker 2: understand the difference between you know, XRP or Solona or

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Speaker 2: or whatever. Right, So for you to say, if it

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Speaker 2: stays decentralized and securest most people don't even know what

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Speaker 2: that means. They don't even understand what decentralization is and

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Speaker 2: why bitcoin might be different than any one of the

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Speaker 2: those other assets. And so I think you first have

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Speaker 2: to come to that realization first, right.

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Speaker 1: I think we're saying the same thing, and you've gone

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Speaker 1: really deep on this subject. I've gone really deep on

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Speaker 1: this subject. I've probably spent over ten thousand hours trying

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Speaker 1: to disprove what I just said, spending all my time

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Speaker 1: in it cannot stay decentralize and secure against natural centralization

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Speaker 1: that we've always allowed through human So we have to

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Speaker 1: be would I say to that is, if currencies have

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Speaker 1: always been centralized, whether it's gold and then repriced, then

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Speaker 1: we must be part of the thing that allows them

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Speaker 1: to be centralized, and so it could. Can Bitcoin withstand

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Speaker 1: that is really the ultimate, the ultimate question. Can it

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Speaker 1: withstand us? How many of us know, how many of

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Speaker 1: us run nodes? What does it look like? And so

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Speaker 1: I went through the same thing that everybody would go through,

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Speaker 1: and the cognitive dissonance of of there's no way this

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Speaker 1: thing could do that, And then we're then coming to

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Speaker 1: a greater appreciation of why I believed it would stay

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Speaker 1: the centralized and secure. But again, I think we're saying

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Speaker 1: the same thing. So it doesn't say anything about bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: It says the cognitive dissonance that's going on in every

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Speaker 1: single human mind in trying to understand something that's never

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Speaker 1: been in existence before, Right, that's really what's happening. Yep.

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Speaker 2: So you as a as a futurist, as a technologist,

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Speaker 2: I mean you understand. It's just like it's really hard

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Speaker 2: for people to imagine the future because typically we can

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Speaker 2: only imagine better versions of what we have today. So

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Speaker 2: when you have something completely different that we don't have,

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Speaker 2: we try to then compare it to something. Well it's

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Speaker 2: sort of like this, well it is, but it's not.

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Speaker 2: And it was like that's well, it's sort of is not.

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Speaker 2: So then it's very hard to understand, well, what is

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Speaker 2: this thing that we don't know what it is? It's

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Speaker 2: all these different things and will become something we can't

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Speaker 2: even imagine today. But I think to the point that

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Speaker 2: you were making earlier, you know, you're ten thousand hours in.

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Speaker 2: That is what separates those who have put in the work.

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Speaker 2: They can build that level of conviction, which then allows

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Speaker 2: them to I think number one take larger position sizes,

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Speaker 2: but then number two sort of have the ability to

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Speaker 2: sort of ride out these volatility waves in ease and

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Speaker 2: even dare I say, look for them opportunities opportunistically.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I remember it was this September of last year, which

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Speaker 2: is not that long ago. I had I think Big

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Speaker 2: One was in the mid sixties, sixty eight thousand. It

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Speaker 2: dropped down to like sixty three thousand, so I had

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Speaker 2: a little bit of extra cash. I moved the over

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Speaker 2: to exchange to go ahead and get a buy and

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Speaker 2: then it dropped to like fifty eight, and I was like, ah,

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Speaker 2: buy a little bit more. And I'm like, I think

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Speaker 2: it could drop to fifty. So I put a buy

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Speaker 2: order in at fifty and it never got filled, you know,

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Speaker 2: it never went down right, and it ran and then

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Speaker 2: it you know, went to a hundred and then one

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Speaker 2: o six and then one ten. I'm like, oh, man,

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Speaker 2: I should have just got out the fifty eight.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: If it drops back down, if it gets back into

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Speaker 2: that eighty range, I'm backing up the truck.

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Speaker 1: You know, and like here we are.

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Speaker 2: So it's like we can sort of look for those moments.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious what you think about just you know, obviously

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Speaker 2: there's that right if it just saysy centralized and secure.

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Speaker 2: And then there's the big print. And it's not just

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Speaker 2: the US big print. I mean right now we have

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Speaker 2: just in the last week China is now doing a

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Speaker 2: big print and Germany and the EU just announced a

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Speaker 2: big print for their security and stuff like that. So

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Speaker 2: what's happening all over the world. But at the same

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Speaker 2: time that's happening also the way technology is evolving is

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Speaker 2: changing the world, right, So like sort of bringing it

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Speaker 2: back to AI, which is sort of like the general markets,

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Speaker 2: like big Darling sort of thing is we have like

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Speaker 2: AI has been that big thing, Open AI, the way

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Speaker 2: they're raising money, things like that. Then all of a

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Speaker 2: sudden we see like deep Seat come out in China,

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Speaker 2: which I think change the way we value traditional assets

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Speaker 2: in a way. Like number one, they're able to produce

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Speaker 2: an asset know this AI model way cheaper with way

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Speaker 2: less GPUs, which then disrupted all the forecasts of Nvidia

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Speaker 2: and tech companies. But also what it did is it

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Speaker 2: disrupted the Nasdak. Well maybe some of the money will

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Speaker 2: move from the US markets over to the China markets,

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Speaker 2: So maybe the Nasdaq index is overvalued. Maybe the companies

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Speaker 2: listed on the nas Deck overvalued, maybe all these AI

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Speaker 2: companies are overvalued, Like whoa, what do we even know?

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Speaker 2: And then it sort of laid open and exposed all

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Speaker 2: these assumptions that we have because of this fiat system

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Speaker 2: that we have, and so it almost looked like all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, we do need some sort of a

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Speaker 2: new measuring or unit of account there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

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Speaker 1: This is the kind of way it. It boggles my

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Speaker 1: mind that this is still so misunderstood because it's the

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Speaker 1: same thing I wrote about six years ago. It's exactly

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Speaker 1: the same thing. You would have exponential rate of technology improvement.

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Speaker 1: The natural state of the free market is deflation, So

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Speaker 1: that productivity in a free market because we only use

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Speaker 1: the things that give us more value. So obviously we're

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Speaker 1: going to use the things that give us more value

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Speaker 1: and they would be coming at us so fast, which

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Speaker 1: the output of that had to be deflation. And then

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Speaker 1: and then in a free market, prices fall to the

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Speaker 1: marginal cost of production. So, what's the marginal cost of

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Speaker 1: production of a line of code that I used to

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Speaker 1: say it all the time on your calculator app zero

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Speaker 1: because it's a line of code, right, what's the marginal

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Speaker 1: cost of a line of code created by other lines

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Speaker 1: of code AI zero, what's what what does that look like?

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Speaker 1: As it moves into physical goods, as it moves into robotics,

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Speaker 1: and this AI is actually tackling all the physical goods

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Speaker 1: almost zero because because those companies are going to compete

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Speaker 1: everywhere to be able to put this, and then the

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Speaker 1: cost of all those physical goods is going to fall

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Speaker 1: at the same rate, and so that productivity means faster

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Speaker 1: and faster product and people are measuring that productivity through

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Speaker 1: the system that's stealing the productivity to try to make

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Speaker 1: GDP go up. So it has to concentrate, it has

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Speaker 1: to centralize. It's so if the natural state of the

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Speaker 1: free market is deflation, if prices fall to the marginal

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Speaker 1: cost of production, if if if this is true, which

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Speaker 1: we know is for sure true, if you can nod

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Speaker 1: your head, you can do all the research you want

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Speaker 1: on that topic, then unfortunately, what it means is you've

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Speaker 1: never lived in a global free market. All of the

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Speaker 1: things you're pointing at and giving strength through your actions.

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Speaker 1: This leader, this leader, this person's going to fix it.

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Speaker 1: They're all centralizing functions and they have to be because

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Speaker 1: it cannot let that system, that debt BAEd system, that

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Speaker 1: credit based system which we live in and price everything

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Speaker 1: from it. Won't let it collapse because you won't let

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Speaker 1: it collapse. So every single conspiracy theory, all of those

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Speaker 1: things are inside that system because they have to be

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Speaker 1: inside that system because you won't let it collapse, right

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Speaker 1: and and so so once you understand that, you you

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Speaker 1: stop giving your time to You know, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a chaotic journey from one system to another as

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Speaker 1: people have a hard time grappling with what I just described.

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Speaker 1: But you stop giving your time to the system that's

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Speaker 1: stealing your time and energy.

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Speaker 2: So you're saying the more that you participate in the system,

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Speaker 2: then you're reinforcing that system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everything within it, every single we know, you know,

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of your listeners or know, gold gets

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Speaker 1: co opted. It gets co opted by derivatives it's got

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Speaker 1: and and and if that ever got reset, then it

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Speaker 1: would say sink the system. So what they're really saying

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Speaker 1: is with with and then But because it centralizes, it

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Speaker 1: always gets repriced and and people cheat. People have always

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Speaker 1: cheated on money, and so it always allows that you

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Speaker 1: can't audit how much gold China has in the reserves.

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Speaker 1: You can't. If we said we were going to audit

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Speaker 1: Fort Knox, I don't think it'll be a true audit,

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Speaker 1: and then you can't audit what everybody else says. Whereas bitcoins,

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Speaker 1: blockchains getting audited every ten minutes, it doesn't care. So

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Speaker 1: this centralized. So what we're saying with some of these

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Speaker 1: assets within the system, is it really And I had

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Speaker 1: to deal with this myself too. The cognitive distance I

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Speaker 1: was dealing with it is if we've never lived in

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Speaker 1: a free market and our actions inside the other system

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Speaker 1: are trying to get rich in a zero sum game

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Speaker 1: where somebody has to lose because we won. Every single

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Speaker 1: asset we're trading within that system is really just a

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Speaker 1: bet on how much is somebody else is going to

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Speaker 1: lose because I'm going to win all on a centralized

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Speaker 1: system and there's no way to fix it. And so

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Speaker 1: that's what really pushed me into exploring it is a

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Speaker 1: bit going different? First is it could it remain decentralized

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Speaker 1: and secure against that power that you knew would have

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Speaker 1: to try to attack it? And then where do I

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Speaker 1: want to contribute my time? Because the free market isn't

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Speaker 1: a zero sum game? The free market is a cooperative

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Speaker 1: game where everyone wins if you and I make a trade,

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Speaker 1: Like look at what we're doing right now in this

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Speaker 1: riverside app, which costs you a fraction of what it

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Speaker 1: would have cost to reach this many users right ten

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Speaker 1: years ago, a fraction, and now you talk to this

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Speaker 1: many users, and you can build a business by yourself

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Speaker 1: effectively that by providing value to a whole bunch of people.

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Speaker 1: The output of that exchange is more value for you

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Speaker 1: and me, more value for everybody listening from the output

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Speaker 1: of the exchange that's giving value, and so it's all

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Speaker 1: around us and that is not a So the free

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Speaker 1: market is is the the only thing we've ever found

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Speaker 1: that allows us to exchange and actually in a cooperative

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Speaker 1: game where everyone wins and and and we always but

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Speaker 1: there's always people trying to cheat it, right.

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Speaker 2: That's the that's sort of the downside of human nature,

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Speaker 2: like always taking things too far. So it's like, then

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Speaker 2: mine naturally once productivity gains or deflation, I suppose, right,

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Speaker 2: so instead of carrying eight eight bricks one at a time,

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Speaker 2: I make a wheelbarrow to carry eight bricks at once.

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Speaker 2: So we want to get more output for less input.

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Speaker 2: But then we take things too far and then we

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Speaker 2: start trying to figure out, well, then how could we

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Speaker 2: cheat the system there?

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Speaker 1: We want our house to go up in value, we

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Speaker 1: want our asset to go away up in value. And

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Speaker 1: this Yeah, if you think through the logic, if we're

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Speaker 1: part of the system that is choosing more value, how

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Speaker 1: could that be true unless you lived in system distorting

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Speaker 1: currency units? And then most people turn to the same current,

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Speaker 1: the same things that have always stored value in those

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Speaker 1: cheating systems, to try to protect their value from the cheating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Hey, small business owner, are you buried in all types

379
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388
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Speaker 2: Now one thing that I see as we move from

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Speaker 2: one system to another, you know, I talk about you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm back to the Abu Dhabi talk. I talked about

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Speaker 2: sort of bitcoin's price in the future of twenty thirty

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Speaker 2: to forty fifty. I mean I looked at it from

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Speaker 2: a venture capital lens of like, what are the markets

400
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Speaker 2: that are being disrupted, how much value can be taken

401
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 2: from those markets, and how much could it grow? And

402
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Speaker 2: so then you know, I signed some values to bitcoin

403
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 2: that seem unreal and you know, astronomical unreal. And the

404
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: typical reaction to hearing that bitcoin could be worth ten

405
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Speaker 2: million or fifteen million or fifty million is like, yeah,

406
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Speaker 2: that means the dollar's worth zero. That means it's you know,

407
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Speaker 2: a million dollars for an egg or something like that,

408
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Speaker 2: which in Zimbabwe, eggs were you know, a million dollars, right,

409
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Speaker 2: a few a million dollars, But like from a venture

410
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Speaker 2: capital lens, I think that's like a like that that's

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00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: a big misunderstanding. Right, So it's like bitcoin is pulling

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Speaker 2: value from other areas and other assets, and so like

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Speaker 2: the dollar doesn't necessarily have to become worthless for bitcoin

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Speaker 2: to rise in value.

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Speaker 1: Right, So I think the best way to frame this

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Speaker 1: is or away I frame it, whether it's best or not.

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Speaker 1: Is this, If you divide the nine hundred trillion dollar

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Speaker 1: balance sheet by twenty one million, you got forty three

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Speaker 1: million dollars terminal value a bitcoin today's purchasing power. Right,

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Speaker 1: and we know tomorrow there's gonna be a ton of

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Speaker 1: printing and that nine hundred trillion all the assets within

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Speaker 1: because if you if there wasn't printing, all the assets

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Speaker 1: would collapse to zero. Right. Your house isn't worth what

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00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: you think it is. Your house is only worth because

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00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: the debt underneath it is deemed solvent, and it's insolvent,

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Speaker 1: so it requires an input of massive manipulation of capital

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Speaker 1: of of money, which will increase the nine hundred trillion higher,

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Speaker 1: So your house will be worth more a relative to

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Speaker 1: those currency units. But if you did the calculation again

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Speaker 1: in two years, with more printing and the different value,

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Speaker 1: then bitcoin would appear like it'll be a higher purchasing

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Speaker 1: terminal purchasing power at that time exactly. And then the

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Speaker 1: other thing that's happening at the same time, which would

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Speaker 1: just actually probably more more powerful and hard to see,

435
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: is that forty three million dollars per coin purchasing power

436
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: is a terminal value again based on it stays decentralized

437
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: and secure. You can do your own work, whether you

438
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: think it will or not. But if it says decentralized

439
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: and secure, then every year, all of that productivity gain

440
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: the global free market is accruing to it because prices

441
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: fall against the forty three million of purchasing power right

442
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: now forever. So so it's and it's way bigger than

443
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: people believe. Because if so, people are still right now

444
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: we're talking about deep seek. Have you seen Manus? Yeah?

445
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 2: I did last night. Yeah.

446
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: So if you've played with that and everything else, you

447
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: could create a team of agents doing this work for

448
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: you to just don't do any path And these things

449
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: are coming at a rate that every I don't know

450
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: if you remember this. In my book, I said that

451
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: that we're measuring we used to measure AI improvements in

452
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: the year in decades, then years, then then months, then minutes,

453
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: then seconds. We're getting into the months, and what's coming

454
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: is the adminutes and then the seconds. That rate of

455
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: improvement is at is such a staggering pace that people

456
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: can't comprehend what it actually means. But if you just

457
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: keep on coming back to saying the natural state of

458
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: the free market is deflation, prices fall to the marginal

459
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: cost of production, period, then all of that productivity gain.

460
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: You take your forty three million dollars per coin today,

461
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: all of those productivity gains are flowing to you as well.

462
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: Because you shouldn't be measuring inflation from zero. You should

463
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: may be measuring it from global productivity. And most people

464
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: are measuring global productivity through the debt based system, and

465
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: they can't see what's really happening because it has to extract.

466
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: It cannot allow prices to fall, so it extracts that

467
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: productivity and centralizes it.

468
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: So what you're saying is rather than measuring it against

469
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: a manipulated denominator like the US dollar, then you should

470
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,959
Speaker 2: measure it against something outside of that system, like bitcoin.

471
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: And then you get a completely different answer exactly.

472
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: And then if you just said so, that's why for me,

473
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: I say, I keep on referring to Bitcoin as a decentralized,

474
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: secure protocol bounded by energy. Right, So if you understand

475
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: those words, each of those words decentral so nobody controls

476
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: it secure, it cannot be broken, so it doesn't can't change,

477
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: can't be broken, or it can change only if people

478
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: determine who are nodes to change it in their best interests.

479
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: Protocols are winner take all, so there is no need

480
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: for any other coin. There is one Internet. You choose

481
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: to be on it or off of it, and so

482
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: protocols are winner take all, and they come in layers.

483
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: They add more functionalities in layers, unlike technologies which winner

484
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: take most. So what's happening is Bitcoin is evolving in

485
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: layers and adding more functionality layers, and it's getting more decentralized,

486
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: more secure all along. And so even most of this

487
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: talk has only been on layer one, which would for

488
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: a long time if you couldn't do anything on layer one,

489
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: if it couldn't, if it couldn't scale, you would have

490
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: all of these other coins by nature saying I have

491
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: a better bitcoin, I have a better So it would

492
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: be natural that the free market would would look at

493
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: it because it would be so confusing to understand protocols.

494
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: But that protocol bounded by energy if as long as

495
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: it stays to the centralized and secure reprices.

496
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: Everything, yep. And if you look back through technology and

497
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: how it reaches you know that it reaches adoption diffusion

498
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: over different stages in a cycle. It seems to follow

499
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: the same repeatable pattern where in the beginning technology doesn't scale,

500
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: and so you try all these other different paths, and

501
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: then it does scale, and then it gets rid of

502
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: all those other pasts. And so we've seen this in

503
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: many other avenues, but in this case specifically, you know,

504
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: to the point that you're making, you have all these

505
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 2: alt coins that became faster and cheaper and more private

506
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: and smart contracts, et cetera. But then once we've achieved

507
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: been able to achieve the scaling on Bitcoin, then it

508
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: sort of makes all those other chains irrelevant.

509
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can't. I can't still think of anything

510
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: that I like where bitcoin is going that anything I

511
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: would use. Actually, what you'd say is, I'm going to

512
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: use a high cost database, right like his centralized controlled database,

513
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: because that's what a blockchain it is. I'm going to

514
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: use a high cost database to centralize. I just can't

515
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: see any single thing.

516
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: Did you see the piece that David Marcus put out

517
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: the other day, I think it was just maybe two

518
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: days ago, talking about what they're doing over at light

519
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: Spark and you know the building on layer two, on

520
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: Bitcoin layer two, and he basically said, you know, he

521
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: ran if you know who David Marcus is for writing

522
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: in the audience, I mean, he's like the payments He's

523
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: the guy, the payments guy right from PayPal. He was

524
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: the one that was behind Libra at Facebook. But he

525
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: basically went into why Libra failed and how many people

526
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: have asked him if he would launch now that they're

527
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: sort of a clear runway from regulate regulator regulation standpoint,

528
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: if they would do a Libra two point zero, and

529
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: he just said, no, the market has moved on. There's

530
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: no need for Libra two point zero. And one of

531
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: the reasons that he gave is there wasn't really the

532
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: ability to do it with bitcoin back then, but there

533
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: is today number one, so to the point of scaling

534
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: what we're talking about. But then he went on to say,

535
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: you know what the nations want is no government. Well,

536
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: each nation wants to be able to settle in their

537
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: own currency, and no nation will settle for settling on

538
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: somebody else's privatize, centralize database, and so there's only one

539
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: option that's decentralized that will give them this neutral ability

540
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: to do this on. Then they talked about how they're

541
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: building on top of bitcoin, and he's inviting everyone to

542
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: come build with them and stuff like that. But I thought,

543
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: you know, the guy who understands payments very very well,

544
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: sort of laying this out, breaking it down. I love

545
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: it when I think it's funny, I should say, when

546
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: I see all these people online and they're smarter than

547
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: Larry Fink about money, and they're smarter than David Marcus

548
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: about payments and whatever, right, And so to hear him

549
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: lay this out and and break it down, I think

550
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 2: it was pretty insightful. But it's saying exactly the things

551
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: that we're saying. It wasn't ready then it is now,

552
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: and there's just really no way forward for the world

553
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: to work globally without this decentralized layer that nobody can control.

554
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is it. It's called cheating and global conflict

555
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: in war.

556
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: Well, I'm saying there's no way to really keep moving progressing.

557
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

558
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: I know I'm agreeing with Yeah, that would be devolving, right.

559
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so, and that's actually why I get back

560
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: to all of the things inside the other system that

561
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: most people are complaining about, are ensuring that. So you

562
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: can feel the chaos, you can feel that. And I

563
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: watch I watch people to take sides within this debate

564
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: and screaming at it, and they don't know that that

565
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: side on that system they're making it stronger. Use the

566
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: example of it kind of Marches on Wall Street in

567
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, burn things down, turnover cars, go

568
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: home and sleep. Where did the money come to fix it?

569
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: All from them?

570
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah?

571
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: Right from them? And so now I ask yourself, what

572
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 1: are you doing with inside the system? And how are

573
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: you sleeping it? Like like you like all of these

574
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: things that are like it's feeding on your fear and

575
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: you think there's an enemy on the other side of

576
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: that fear inside that system, or you're a savior on

577
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: the other side of that fear inside that system. There isn't. Yeah,

578
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: it's all it's it's it has to be a different

579
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: system the only thing that can And so you can

580
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: tune out, you can just that I understand what I'm

581
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: asking to do the work on bitcoin and actually understand

582
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: how different this is. And that's a lot of people

583
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: aren't ready to and I know you've done a lot

584
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: of work to help people understand that. But as they do,

585
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: they'll just they'll understand that. Here's why, here's why I

586
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: believe the stays the centralize and secure because the people centralizing,

587
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: trusting ets, trusting all of the other central briers aren't

588
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 1: running nodes. The people, the people who know this are

589
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: never going back to a corrupt system.

590
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: So the people that are seemingly participating with bitcoin, but

591
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: through these centralized mechanisms like ETFs, they're not helping the

592
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: network statey centralized insecure.

593
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of people that are worried

594
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: that this is centrally controlled because government's for it and

595
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: everything else. They don't realize how powerful the kind of

596
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: voices and I'm not saying mine, but you know these people,

597
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: you know these people all around the world, and they're

598
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: running nodes, globally distributed nodes, and they are not going

599
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: to allow this thing to be centralized. Right, So when

600
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: that when that day comes that that that system says

601
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: you're going to do this because we want you to

602
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: do this. That might be a really bad day for

603
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: the centralized system. That might be hypergrap picization.

604
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: And in that event, and to your point, I mean,

605
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 2: we've we've gained plan this out so many nights, late nights,

606
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: maybe over over some drinks, maybe maybe not at many events,

607
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 2: were sitting around game planning this out, like what are

608
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: the ways that we can think of attacks here? But

609
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 2: it seems like almost any one of those events leads

610
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 2: to just a fork.

611
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah, that's which is like great.

612
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: Then you take your centralized coin over here, you take

613
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: your new raised cap limit to forty one, but you

614
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: take whatever it is that you want over here, and

615
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 2: we'll just stick with old bitcoin over here. And that's

616
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: why it doesn't work.

617
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Just like so if you were if you were

618
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: planning that attack, if you were trying to if you like,

619
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: if you were deep deep state trying to plan that attack,

620
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: you probably wouldn't try to attack it for another five

621
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: six years. You would you would you would love bitcoin

622
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: to go way up in price to resolve your underlying

623
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 1: debt problem because it would it wouldn't resolve the debt,

624
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: but it would result it would you would have an

625
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: asset that would be worth a lot more so that

626
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: the balance sheet would look better. And then you would

627
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: and then all of the that you'd hope that a

628
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: whole bunch of the bitcoiners had sold into your centralized

629
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: thing because they were they were actually the entire time

630
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: pricing in the US currency, right, and they were Now

631
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: they got rich, and now they were part of this,

632
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: and now they didn't care they weren't running nodes, and

633
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: then and then and they got you didn't have the

634
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: same kind of cipher punk ethic that is that is

635
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: driving this thing that more and more people understand that

636
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: these are structural changes in the world. One is a

637
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: centralized system where every everybody's kind of in a control system.

638
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: One is decentralized, where where where we we have freedom.

639
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: And once you understand that, which I there's a whole

640
00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: bunch of people that don't, right, but more or learning

641
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: each day, and as they learn, as they go from okay,

642
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: I'm just going to accept a little I'm going to

643
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: take a little bit of bitcoin. I'm going to and

644
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 1: as you learn that path and then you become part

645
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: of the network, You become one of the nodes in

646
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: the network. Right, You're never going to change.

647
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: Now what about you know what we see what we

648
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: just saw this last week with President Trump and finally

649
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: we got clarity. We got the executive order, the US

650
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. You know, there's a plan to add

651
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: more you know, balance neutral, whatever, cost neutral, whatever, it is,

652
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 2: all these different things. And there's plenty of people that

653
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: are out there, more so probably some of the crypto

654
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: people that are like, oh yeah, you bitcoiners, you're like

655
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 2: everybody else, you're you know, begging for the government to

656
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: buy it.

657
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 3: You know.

658
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: My take is that, well, I mean it was always

659
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: coming for everything, so it's gonna work its way. But

660
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 2: but back to the point of staying decentralized and secure,

661
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: and now you have, you know, the biggest government to

662
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: get the central know, the US dollar coming into it.

663
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: So how do you think that affects things?

664
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: So so, just like it affects when you make a

665
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: choice you personally to move into this network. You can't

666
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: be debased anymore. And you're participating in the first global

667
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: free market ever. So what does that look like to you?

668
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: And I know what it looks like to you because

669
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: we've had these talks many late nights too. Your life

670
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: gets better and better and better and better, and you

671
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: worry less about all of the chaos everywhere else. Right,

672
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: And that's true for every single person. You have a

673
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: globally distributed open network that any single person, whether you're

674
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: in Africa, whether you're any anywhere, you can make that

675
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: same decision and your life starts to get better through that.

676
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: As long as you're holding. For if you're trading, that

677
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. But if you're if you're holding, then that's

678
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: then that's what happens. And you start to learn more

679
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: about why this is just such a better choice for

680
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: you now in your business. If it was the same,

681
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: if a choice for you in your business, and then

682
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: you'd make the business choice. You do the same thing,

683
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: and you'd start converting your balance sheet. Over time. In

684
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: a city or a state or a country, the same

685
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: choice is happening. I can either I can either tax

686
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: my citizens in this and then by the time I

687
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: go to pay their's taxes on their services, I can't

688
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: deliver the services because the money is broken underneath. Or

689
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: I can deliver more services forever. I can make my

690
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: country richer. Not only that, I can send a signal

691
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 1: that to the world that we're open for a business

692
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: on a free market, we're not freedom matters. And so

693
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: if it's true, if freedom does matter, free markets are

694
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: far more productive than centralized markets because there's more ideas competing,

695
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: and there's more ideas competing for our value. So the

696
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: thing that built the US in the beginning is and

697
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: what created the constitution and the wars that they fought for,

698
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: was every that equal you could move from Europe be free,

699
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: and that's what created the productivity boom that was the

700
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: US before money got captured. So that's just happening on

701
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: bitcoin right now. And so of course governments that understand it,

702
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: I would say it does the US government understand it.

703
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: There's people within it that do. There's people that win

704
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: within it that are trying to capture it, But just

705
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: like there's people within bitcoin that understand it and people

706
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: that were pricing it through the US dollar. So there's

707
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 1: just such a complicated topic that I think each person

708
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: is kind of understanding it from their own thing, and

709
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: so I don't pay any attention to of course they're

710
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: going to do it. I suspect at some point they

711
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: will decide whether they want to try to cont sure

712
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: it or if they are a free market, right, and

713
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: we'll see in the nodes will decide right. Right.

714
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 2: The one thing in the game theory that I love

715
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: to kind of always throw out to people who are

716
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 2: doubting this is just that by capturing it, by changing

717
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 2: the hard cap, by doing any of those things, you

718
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: basically make it worthless. And so anybody who was able

719
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: to capture a large percentage of this would at least

720
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 2: at this point be doing it to acquire more US

721
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: dollars to build wealth, whether you're a micro strategy or

722
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: even if you were the US sovereign wealth fun hoping

723
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: to pay off your debt one at one point, right,

724
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 2: And so by making these changes, you're essentially making it worthless.

725
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 2: So really that'll only be done by like a hostile actor.

726
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 1: It's it's even but and you know this how antifragile

727
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: it is. Imagine how many attacks like if you really

728
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: think through it. Because obviously the NSSAY is known about

729
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: pitcoin for a long time. They all of the major

730
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: governments all over the China's tried to stop at US

731
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: has tried to stop at all Operation Chokepoint. Imagine how

732
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: much this is in the highest levels trying to stop

733
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: this thing. That brings freedom back to the world every individual,

734
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: and you have no say so. Yes, there's going to

735
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: be a ton of attacks. There still will be a

736
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: ton of attacks. But every single person who's attacked it

737
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: has not just attacked it. They could have done better

738
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 1: themselves and for their entire thing, the ftx Celsius, every

739
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: single person coinbase, if they just owned it, that owned

740
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: the bitcoin instead of sold all the shit coins, they

741
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 1: would have way more bitcoin attacking attacking it. The cheaters

742
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: always lose against this, right, every single and that's what's

743
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: so fascinating. A cooperative network benefits the honest.

744
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 2: And then we have it playing out on a global,

745
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: global scale. I mean, just today, the last couple of days,

746
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: we've seen the EU announced they're going to finally roll

747
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 2: out their central bank digital currency, and then they're coming

748
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 2: out and bashing Trump directly saying that by doing these cryptocurrencies,

749
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 2: like you're threatening their sovereignty somehow.

750
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and this is it. That's actually why I

751
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: can't even listen to all of this because you you know,

752
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: you we're listening to people like Laguard and all all

753
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: these people that their only wealth, their only value to

754
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: society is being at the top of a control system

755
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: that's sucking value from society. Why am I paying any

756
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: attention to that? Why am I? Why would I feed

757
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: that anything? Right? The just the more you do in bitcoin,

758
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: you realize, Okay, yeah, a lot of people are going

759
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: to get caught in it, a lot of people are

760
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: going to The chaos that it's going to ensue is

761
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: is staggering. But yes, because that system must it must

762
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: it must have you locked into it, yep, to to

763
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: retain its power over you. Yeah.

764
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I remember years ago seeing a quote

765
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: from the Guard saying, you know how any basically any

766
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 2: new technology was a threat to financial their financial stability,

767
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 2: which it is because it, you know, creative destruction creates

768
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: those new ways. I want to jump into another topic,

769
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 2: and maybe the last topic here there. You know, there's

770
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: a lot of talk with you know, Michael Saylor and

771
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 2: is now strategy acquiring all these bitcoin and what are

772
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: they going to do with it at some point? And

773
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 2: there's just talk of like maybe a bitcoin bank, which

774
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: he never really confirmed or denied. But I saw this

775
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: post surface the other day of holf Finny, one of

776
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 2: the original developers on on bitcoin, and it was in

777
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 2: one of the old message boards, and he talked about,

778
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: you know, this future with bitcoin banks and how you

779
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 2: know you would have holders of large amounts of bitcoin

780
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: and they could launch their own banks and then launch

781
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 2: their own currencies on top of bitcoin, and almost painted

782
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: this sort of like free banking two point zero sort

783
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: of narrative. I'm curious how you view the future in

784
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 2: regard to banking. I mean, banking sort of seems to

785
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: have mainly three functions, right, storing, you know, transmitting, and

786
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: then lending. But how do you think of maybe what

787
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 2: he had talked about, this future of bitcoin banks, you know,

788
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: having bitcoin on the balance sheet, creating cash on top

789
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: of it and things like that.

790
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 1: So complicated topic, but it's this is the layering approach

791
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: to bitcoin. So Bitcoin layer one, open, decentralized protocol, boundary

792
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: by energy, but slow transactions. Right, the reason that's decentralized

793
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: and secure is the slow transactions.

794
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: So it slows a relative term.

795
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's say five to seven transactions per second,

796
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,439
Speaker 1: so it can handle global banking for eight billion people.

797
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: So then Lightning network Liquid are a whole bunch of

798
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: different kind of layer twos emerge at first Lightning on

799
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: the layer two looks like kind of a back like

800
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: because it's a project, it's just on top of bit,

801
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: why you don't need another coin. But in the first going,

802
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't work very well, like forty percent payments failure

803
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 1: fail You need your own liquidity channels and everything else,

804
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: because you just look like it is almost a garage network,

805
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: right because it's just emerging. And today where you have

806
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: probably ninety six percent of payments work each time every time,

807
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: and it'll be ninety nine point ninety ninety nine and

808
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 1: there's six hundred and fifty million people right now using

809
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: Lightning liquid it's a staggering it's growing faster than the

810
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: Internet it did in the nineties, and people still look

811
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 1: at it like they looked at it five years ago.

812
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: So what David Marcus was really saying is this is

813
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: matured to a place that now you have a layered approach.

814
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: That you have this layered approach. The next next thing privacy. Privacy.

815
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: Lightning gives some privacy, but in a world where everyone

816
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: came after this, it's not sufficient. It's not sufficient because

817
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: they would attack tack those nodes at some point they're centralized.

818
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: You can only use this bitcoin rather than this Bitcoin

819
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: and they would attack it. So you had to develop

820
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 1: massive privacy within within the technology, but in a layered

821
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: approach that you don't have to have another coin, so

822
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: you can extend the decentralized, secured nature and it can't

823
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: be centralized and changed. That's that's why we invested in

824
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: Fetti and Fetiment protocol. It's built on top of these

825
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: intraoperable with it's complete privacy, and it gives you essentially

826
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: a free banking error on top of bitcoin that that

827
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: is completely private. So you and I, you and I

828
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: two other people could run a run essentially nodes on

829
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: top of this, in and out of in and out

830
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: of lightning. We could have a circular economy ourselves. Right

831
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: this is being used right now in Venezuela because of

832
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: the dictatorship in Venezuela, and it can't be found. There's

833
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: all of the communication is completely private, all of the

834
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: all of the transactions are completely private, and it's growing

835
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: really fast. It's being used and has some of the

836
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: most scary places, and we can feel this authoritarianism, the

837
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: centralizing of the system accelerate all over the world because

838
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 1: the money is broken where where where This technology has

839
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: already anticipated that problem a long time ago, built the

840
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: built the like they it completely withstands anything here and

841
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: is growing the other way, providing freedom to the world.

842
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: Now it's early because and why is it early because

843
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: most people don't know it even exists yet. But it's

844
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: all integrated.

845
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 2: Then, I mean you would put your bitcoin in and

846
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,919
Speaker 2: then you would get back, so that like the Bitcoin bank,

847
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: you put your money in this bank and then you

848
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: get back a representative token that you can spend that's

849
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: faster and cheaper and more private.

850
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, so e cash is built into bitcoin in this way.

851
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: That and then and then now, what would you have

852
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: to worry about. You'd have to worry about if let's

853
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,959
Speaker 1: say you, me, two other people were the nodes. Could

854
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: we cheat? Could we cheat? And say, we're going to

855
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: fractionalize the e cash, so somebody thinks they have the cash,

856
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: but it's not backed by bitcoin, and so there's a

857
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: whole bunch of ways to be able to protect against that.

858
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 2: But well, maybe I want it to be fractionalized.

859
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and but yes, and maybe you do, and some

860
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: people will try to cheat that.

861
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: And then then well I don't know if it's necessarily

862
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 2: even cheating, right, so it's like think of it as

863
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: earning yield. I mean typically with the bank, you'd give

864
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: your money to the bank, the bank would loan it

865
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: out and they would give you some backup a yield

866
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 2: on that for for you know, taking some risk with

867
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 2: your money, so to speak.

868
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: Right, I think here's what's what's happening. We have that

869
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: that entire fractional system is failing, right because it requires

870
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: more fractionalize. It's Ponzi scheme all the way down, right,

871
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: and it needs more and more. Their yield comes from

872
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: comes from that and the entire because because if it

873
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: didn't have more fractional line, if it didn't have more

874
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: monetary units, it fails. So so you're which, here's a

875
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: simple way to say this, all of the money that exists.

876
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: So if everybody paid back their debt, there would be

877
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:54,399
Speaker 1: no money, right, So so you know, and the money

878
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: is loaned into existence. So when you take a loan

879
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: for your house, you're adding money, right, and you're paying

880
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: You're you're paying a fee to somebody that made it

881
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: up from nothing to be to be able to be indentured.

882
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: And then you're paying taxes on that as and more

883
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: as as more and more money is lent into existence.

884
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: This other system won't look like that, now, will people try?

885
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be it doesn't doesn't have to

886
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 2: be fractionalized, right, like misis would break down, you know,

887
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 2: circulating credit versus you know commodity credit. Right, So it's

888
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 2: like if I grew ten bushels of wheat, but I

889
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 2: only needed to consume seven, I could loan you those

890
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 2: three bushel of weet and you give me back three

891
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 2: bushel a week next year, right for sure?

892
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: For sure? And then in that case and in fetti right,

893
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 1: So the money that e cash on top of this,

894
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: it can be moved around at lightning speed, completely private,

895
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: so you and I can trade and there's tiny, tiny

896
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: fees on it and as global privacy. And so now

897
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: question when would you take a loan, you know, in

898
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: a in a in how much loan would you take

899
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 1: in an environment an entire global system that the more

900
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: value is coming each year? Right, So if you take

901
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: huge loans when more value is coming each year, then

902
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: the loan gets more expensive in real terms.

903
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 2: Which is exactly why our debt based monetary system likes

904
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: inflation totally. Yeah, yeah, I was just curious, like I said,

905
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 2: I saw that that that that post from hal Finny,

906
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: and I was just kind of thinking thinking that through

907
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 2: a little bit. If you go back in however far back,

908
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I would imagine even before there was a

909
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: currency system, medium, before a ledger, sit, before any of that,

910
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 2: the first form of money had to have been credit, right, Like,

911
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 2: you're my neighbor in the village, go ahead and borrow

912
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 2: my whatever and bring me back a little bit extra, right.

913
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 2: So I think credit would probably have been the first

914
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 2: form of money before anything, all through the gold.

915
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: Standard era, probably barter and then barter and then credit.

916
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 2: Barter and then credit. Yeah, probably barter and then credit,

917
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: and then all through the gold Standard era, I mean

918
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 2: for thousands of years. You know, some people just make

919
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 2: more money and store money, and they're well on to

920
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 2: loan it the people who need.

921
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: It, you know.

922
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 2: So I just don't I don't see how that changes

923
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 2: it's human nature. To the point that you're making, which

924
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 2: is a very good point. It certainly changes the hurdle

925
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 2: rate when you're gonna have to pay a higher amount

926
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 2: back than what you borrowed. Until everything is priced on

927
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 2: that system, I suppose.

928
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: So, so that's the interesting thing. If you think through this,

929
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: and this is where I completely agree with you, it's

930
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: human nature because we were both the map and the

931
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 1: territory and we don't know, we've never known another system.

932
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: So it would be human nature. It would be all

933
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: of our history books to talk about that system. And

934
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: the system has changed, it's already changed. So what does

935
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: does that mean? What it means is because of that

936
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: human nature, there's going to be mispricing and opera and

937
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people wiped out by what we

938
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: just talked about over and over and over again, because

939
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 1: they're going to try to operate the playbook that we've

940
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: lived in in the last three thousand years on top

941
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: of a system that doesn't care. Right. That's exactly so

942
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: I think we're saying the same thing that human nation

943
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: and what will change that as they get wiped out

944
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: over and as they get whipsawed by the system that

945
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: is every ten minutes, there's a new block and it

946
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: doesn't care.

947
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just saying that even in a new system,

948
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 2: I think there's always a need for that.

949
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 3: Right.

950
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 2: So I've been a good steward of my wealth. I've

951
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: built up more than I need. I've grown ten bushels

952
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 2: a week, but I only need seven. Unfortunately for you,

953
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: lightning came down and struck your wheatfield and burned up

954
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 2: your wheat. But I know you're a great farmer. So

955
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: how about I get you three bushels a week because

956
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 2: you're going to I know you're going to grow it back,

957
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 2: and next year you get me four bushels back. Like,

958
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: there's always that need for credit, there's always hardships. It's

959
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 2: just life, and somebody does better with it than somebody else.

960
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 2: And so I just don't think that part changes.

961
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: No, I just mean the what we're talking about is

962
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: the amount on a system based on credit, then what

963
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: people think of about So let's use the house as

964
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: an example. A house is falling to it. We use

965
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: credit for houses, and everybody thinks it's normal right now

966
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: to have a million dollar mortgage, right right. It's only

967
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: normal because of the system of underlying credit that has

968
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: pushed up prices of houses to a monetary premium to

969
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: support that. And if it fails, and so the prices

970
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 1: will still rise in houses from that system. But if

971
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: you measure that house and bitcoin, like my house and

972
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: bitcoin in last five years has dropped from three hundred

973
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: bitcoin to say twenty six bitcoin.

974
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so what is that saying.

975
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: It's it's saying a house is falling back to its

976
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: utility value right in the money that's valuable. Could I

977
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 1: still take a loan for that? Yes, I could take

978
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 1: a loan on to pay for the house today and bitcoin,

979
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: but I know in four or five years that house

980
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: is going to be one bitcoin. Yeah, right, So that

981
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,959
Speaker 1: means my loan gets more expensive. So or I lose

982
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of purchasing power to buy the house

983
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: today rather than tomorrow because the house is falling to

984
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 1: its utility value and that credit destruction or that is

985
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: going to not be understood by very many people.

986
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 2: Right, And yeah, that that is going to shift for sure.

987
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 2: And I think the entire sort of almost retirement industry,

988
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 2: if you will, will change, right where like you have

989
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 2: all these people that are saving for twenty thirty, forty

990
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 2: years and they're hoping they can live off four percent

991
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 2: a year or something like that, But you won't need

992
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: that yield when your money buys you more in the

993
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 2: future instead of less. And so that that incessant need

994
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 2: for you know, desire to earn yield to retire on

995
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: or whatever. I think that part goes away. So, but

996
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: but the need there's always going to be a need

997
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 2: to borrow for some reason or another.

998
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. And what makes these conversations so fascinating is is

999
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: is the change in something that is totally changed the rules. Yeah,

1000
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: and us grappling with the rule change and trying to

1001
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: predict kind of when how what that looks like. But

1002
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: if you step back and just say, Okay, which system

1003
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: would I want to be in? Yep? Right, as this

1004
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 1: is going to be chaotic because on the way through.

1005
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 2: That's one thing I like about is this force functioning

1006
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 2: where really you know, if you if you really study

1007
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: like the difference of a poor middle class or a

1008
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 2: wealthy person, and really, I should say the mindset of

1009
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 2: that person, you sort of have the poor mindset mentality

1010
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 2: or even in a middle class they basically work to live,

1011
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 2: work to pay their bills, so they earn to spend

1012
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 2: money on their house, in their car, and their lifestyle.

1013
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 2: They'll typically use credit to buy things they can't afford

1014
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 2: or to increase their lifestyle, whereas like a wealthy person

1015
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 2: is earning money not to live, they earn money to

1016
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 2: buy assets. Then the assets pay for them to live,

1017
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 2: and they don't use credit because they can't afford things.

1018
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 2: They use credit because it'scheaper to use somebody else's money

1019
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 2: than their own. And so bitcoin would almost force that function.

1020
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 2: Whereas to the point you were making about borrowing and

1021
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 2: bitcoin to pay for the house, but hard and hard

1022
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 2: to pay back the loan it but almost like you'd

1023
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 2: earn and put it into bitcoin and then borrow against

1024
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 2: the bitcoin to buy the house. Yeah, so it forces

1025
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 2: you into the correct form, which is buy to earn

1026
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 2: the assets and have the assets pay for the life.

1027
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: And think about that asset being repriced. So what we're

1028
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: talking about, so all of the people that are pricing

1029
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,919
Speaker 1: those assets way too high and fia it terms because

1030
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: it's worked for the last forty to fifty years, are

1031
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: they they believe that their house is the house and

1032
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: the real estate asset and all of them, even though

1033
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: the taxes are going up and up on them because

1034
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: other people are paying those rents, they believe it's a

1035
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: safe store of value, and that safe store of and

1036
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: they keep on doing it, levering more and more to it.

1037
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: When we just described for the person that the person

1038
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: working for wages and moving those wages into bitcoin is

1039
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: repricing them right, right, That's it, That's what's happening. So

1040
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: it's really interesting and that that repricing can happen in Africa, Argentina, Peru,

1041
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: it can happen anywhere for anybody who wants to to

1042
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: do that. So what's happening today is you and I've

1043
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: talked a lot about this, the risk free rate of

1044
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 1: return is like forty three percent, right, if you're self

1045
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: custoding and if you're making seven or eight and real estate,

1046
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: you're losing thirty five percent a year to bitcoin. But

1047
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: you think you're winning because other people are losing faster

1048
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: than yeah.

1049
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and put it to numbers. I mean the media

1050
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 2: and US home price in twenty sixteen was like two

1051
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand. Today it's about four hundred and

1052
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 2: sixty thousand, so it's almost doubled in that time period.

1053
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 2: But it's gone from you know, a roughly twenty bitcoin

1054
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 2: down to about four bitcoin yep in the same time period.

1055
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: So it's describing that process. You've said it before. It's

1056
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: describing that process that is happening when people are asking

1057
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: when is this going to happen?

1058
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: It's happening.

1059
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's happening. It keeps happening, it will continue to happen.

1060
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:36,919
Speaker 2: One thing I will just throw out there, just because

1061
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 2: I'm an old real estate guy. I can't let it go.

1062
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 2: In America, it's a little bit different thirty year fixed mortgages.

1063
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 2: But more importantly, it's the tax treatment that we get.

1064
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 2: So Trump in his first term and now it just

1065
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: got reinstated, gives us like bonus depreciation, and we get

1066
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 2: like short term rental exclusions and things like that. So

1067
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,919
Speaker 2: somebody with a W two income with earned income could

1068
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 2: get up to one hundred percent right off of an asset.

1069
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 2: So I could put ten percent down on a I

1070
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 2: could put ten thousand down one hundred thousand dollar home

1071
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 2: and write off one hundred thousand dollars of my income

1072
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 2: and have an extra ninety thousand dollars to buy bitcoin with.

1073
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 2: So and then I could have somebody I could have

1074
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,439
Speaker 2: inflacent inflace in debt destruction. I could have tenants paying down.

1075
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 2: So that's a little bit more of an advanced strategy.

1076
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: But I think that's actually really important to call out too,

1077
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: because in all of these things, there's going to be

1078
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: tax strategies that you can take and play a system differently.

1079
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: And I think that's important too, mind you, and which

1080
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: plays into what I think will happen in bitcoin. Governments

1081
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: and states and are going to lower capital gains taxes

1082
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: and try to make this because they're going to try

1083
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: to attract the capital that.

1084
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 3: Is in this.

1085
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 2: So like you get better tax treatment if you keep

1086
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 2: it in then etf than if your custody yourself or

1087
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 2: something like that.

1088
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I hope that's not the but they might

1089
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: try to do that and the but but just if

1090
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: you like it what else Salvador did, And you've been

1091
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: a number of times. I've been a number of times.

1092
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: The change is dramatic from opening up a free market

1093
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: and being bitcoin positive, the tourism. The change is so dramatic,

1094
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: and so that's going to be repeated and other countries

1095
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 1: are going to compete against that.

1096
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, what would you say for the average person who

1097
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 2: hasn't put the time in that you have and doesn't

1098
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,919
Speaker 2: understand the decentralized and secure theme, For the average person

1099
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 2: who's just came into bitcoin now with Trump and the

1100
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 2: Strategic Bitcoin Reserve and all of that talk, what would

1101
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 2: you say the biggest thing they'll probably be shocked about

1102
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 2: over the coming year would be how.

1103
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: Fast the world that they thought they lived in is disintegrating,

1104
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: and how that chaos is going to expand and ripple

1105
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: across It's just going to be if you're not expecting,

1106
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: if you don't realize how much which data is underlying,

1107
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 1: and how insolvent it is, and and and if you

1108
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: think Elon is going to save you because he's ripping

1109
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: out wasted bureaucracy, That wasted bureaucracy today is also they

1110
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: all have jobs, they all spend, they all buy houses,

1111
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: they all buy food, they all they all spend in

1112
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: the economy is part of the GDP. When you rip

1113
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: it out, you cause it deflationary collapse faster. So this

1114
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: is so there's so many people right now that cheering

1115
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: for one side or the other without the realization that

1116
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: underneath the whole thing, underneath the entire thing means to

1117
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: me so much printing that is just centralizing more because

1118
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: it's and so so I'm fascinated by how many people

1119
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 1: are taking a side within this and not understanding the

1120
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: implications of their side within this. So they and then

1121
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: talk about Europe or talking about Iran or talking about Israel.

1122
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: They're talking about. Of course, the entire system looks like

1123
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 1: it's based on corruptions. Of course it does, because it's

1124
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: based on manipulation of your time and energy and the

1125
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: things you're doing in that or going to the things

1126
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: you're going to do that is going to give away

1127
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: your power into the centralization, and it has to center

1128
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: go back to AI. The rate of improvement of AI.

1129
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: It's just it will never be this slow again. It

1130
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: will never say that again and again and again. It

1131
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: will never be this dumb again. It will never be

1132
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: this slow again. Never. It is going to go at

1133
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 1: a rate that your brain cannot comprehend, and you will.

1134
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: And if you don't use it, other businesses are going

1135
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: to use it to provide more value, and it's going

1136
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 1: to remove labor at a staggering rate.

1137
01:03:55,720 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 2: So either move to something that cannot be replaced, physical services,

1138
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 2: or get this, get with the program.

1139
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: And it's even physical services inside that. So if you

1140
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: lived in a control structure, if all of your stuff

1141
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 1: was inside that control structure, and you had cameras everywhere

1142
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: and monitor and you were driving an electric car that

1143
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: was going to they could turn off and you were

1144
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: in a bank, in a bank account, and you had gold,

1145
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 1: but you were in a bank account that could be

1146
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: turned off anytime. If you understood how much of your

1147
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 1: stuff is tracked right now inside this system, and you

1148
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: think it isn't. All of these connected systems are all

1149
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 1: part of that centralized control. You are inside of that.

1150
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: You're in the matrix centralizing with everything you're doing. There

1151
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: isn't There isn't a thing that is safe within that

1152
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: system you have. It's a different it's a system change,

1153
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: and bitcoin is repricing that it's outside because because you

1154
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: can self custody this, you can take this off and

1155
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 1: you can store the words in your head. You don't

1156
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 1: have to trust that system. It's it's immune from everything

1157
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: I just said. So so now just ask yourself, where

1158
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 1: am I spending my time? And what does that look like?

1159
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: There is no safety. There's what you people say, I

1160
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: got guns, I have a I have a ranch land.

1161
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: Think about think of what I'm saying, Think about think

1162
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: about robotic dogs, drones, drone swarms, all ai IE things.

1163
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 1: Where are you safe in a centralized system that takes

1164
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 1: all of its control through you through manipulated money? What

1165
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 1: is safe? Good? Luck, right, help build the other system,

1166
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 1: because that's what it frees you.

1167
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 2: There, you go, I think that's a perfect place to

1168
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 2: end it. Go build the other system. I say, build

1169
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 2: the world that you want.

1170
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: So bingo.

1171
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 2: I do get a little pet peeved by a lot

1172
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 2: of these bitcoiners who think they can just go disappear

1173
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 2: on a hill and with their six point two five

1174
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 2: bitcoin or whatever in emerge like like punk satani and

1175
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 2: like the whole world's changed for them. It's like, if

1176
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 2: you're not going to go build the world, who's going

1177
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 2: to do it?

1178
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that's That's it. This is what bitcoin, when

1179
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: you really realize it is it connects all of us

1180
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: on a global free market that can't be cheated. It's

1181
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: cooperative system. So so then then what you It's not

1182
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: saying anything about bitcoin, it's saying something about your choices.

1183
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 2: Mhm. Powerful. All right, Jeff Booth, we're gonna end it

1184
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 2: with that. You wrote a great book. You've referenced the

1185
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 2: multiple times. The Price of Tomorrow will link to that below.

1186
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: Anything new coming out of the pipe that people should

1187
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 2: be paying attention to.

1188
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: I'm towayhing around with a new new book, but I

1189
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: haven't completely committed to it yet, so we'll see.

1190
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 2: All right, Thanks so much, Jeff.

1191
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're great. See anybody