Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 1: Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an
Speaker 1: SFU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klink and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: We talk SVU, true crime, and run other stuff. Honestly,
Speaker 2: we have a lot to discuss us. We constantly have
Speaker 2: so much to discuss. And we're in the time machine.
Speaker 3: Baby.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're in the time machine. By the time
Speaker 1: this comes out, Lisa will have recorded a show stopping hour.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear about it. And coming up
Speaker 1: is Father Day? Are you doing anything? Are you going
Speaker 1: to see your dad or Oh?
Speaker 2: And Mike, Actually no, I'm probably leaving right before I'm going.
Speaker 3: When is it.
Speaker 2: I'm going for my mom's birthday, which is June ninth,
Speaker 2: and then I'm leaving for that weekend, so I'll probably
Speaker 2: be gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's the following weekend. It's the sixteenth.
Speaker 1: It's my mom's birthday. Actually, is Father's Day this year?
Speaker 3: Wow? How do you feel? I don't know what I'm
Speaker 3: supposed to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really do anything for my dad
Speaker 1: on Father's Day, honestly, but I do something for Jared.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll probably just get him.
Speaker 1: I just get him a membership to the movie store
Speaker 1: that it's a video store slash movie theater called Vidiots.
Speaker 1: That's an eagle rock that he loves, and I think
Speaker 1: Casey likes it too, and he.
Speaker 3: Gets is it a yearly membership?
Speaker 1: Yeah, a year long membership, and he gets like all
Speaker 1: these perks, like no late fees, and he can get
Speaker 1: like free popcorn and shit at some of the movies.
Speaker 3: And I don't know, it's like all these perks that
Speaker 3: he likes.
Speaker 1: So I'll get him that and then I don't know
Speaker 1: what else, maybe like a new piece of clothing or something.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'll probably just send them donuts like
Speaker 3: they I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think my dad really like. My dad likes
Speaker 2: sweet and so I'll probably send donuts. Because when I
Speaker 2: sent him nuts, he said never to do that again.
Speaker 2: So I never send me nuts. What was the problem?
Speaker 2: I he was just he said he doesn't want any
Speaker 2: more nuts, So okay, I said a hi, wow, Wait,
Speaker 2: did I not read you this text from my sister
Speaker 2: about my I doesn't read this too.
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: This has nothing to do with the nuts, but it
Speaker 2: does have to do with my father. So my sister's
Speaker 2: renting out her house and she gets this text from
Speaker 2: the renters. There's a shirtless older man wandering around in
Speaker 2: our backyard? Is it a family member of yours? Just
Speaker 2: making sure? And then my sister responds, Oh, my god,
Speaker 2: probably I'll call my dad.
Speaker 3: And it was my father in the yard. That is
Speaker 3: so funny. What was he doing? He was picking the tomatoes.
Speaker 3: He wanted the tomatoes.
Speaker 1: Couldn't put a shirt on, Dad, I'm renting, you gotta
Speaker 1: put a shirt on.
Speaker 2: Well he does, he just does not wear shirts. And
Speaker 2: then I got a nut. Then my mom did something
Speaker 2: fucking silly. Both my parents are just being such themselves
Speaker 2: this week, wildly so. And my sister is a photographer, like,
Speaker 2: she likes taking wild photos, and she would always put
Speaker 2: the kids in kind of wild situations. They jump off bridges,
Speaker 2: they would get close to a ledges like. She liked
Speaker 2: to do optical illusion style photos with the children, which
Speaker 2: do scare my mother.
Speaker 3: Oh, I understand that.
Speaker 2: So then my mom goes, good morning, Sasha and family,
Speaker 2: Please be very careful when you will go to the mountains.
Speaker 3: I saw the photo of you.
Speaker 2: Know, Benji and Natalie, and and in Russian, she goes,
Speaker 2: they're standing too close to the edge. That is very dangerous.
Speaker 2: Have a safety and nice day, Love you all very much.
Speaker 2: And then my sister responds, going, Mom, that was a
Speaker 2: parking lot.
Speaker 3: The photo is near the parking lot.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm looking at the parking lot and
Speaker 1: there is truly it is flat ground and there is
Speaker 1: no drop off anywhere.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. So funny.
Speaker 2: So that's what both of you have to look forward
Speaker 2: to in your elderly eight years, because I just don't
Speaker 2: think you ever start worrying and your kids get closer
Speaker 2: and closer to legends I get.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's truly by the parking lot, but so wild.
Speaker 3: That is really wild.
Speaker 1: Wait, speaking of parenting, I don't even think I fully
Speaker 1: talked to you about how I went and did career
Speaker 1: day at Rosie's school.
Speaker 3: No, that was you have to talk about it.
Speaker 1: I went and I did career day, and I didn't
Speaker 1: know what it was even going to be.
Speaker 3: I thought it was going to be tons of parents
Speaker 3: there were four of us.
Speaker 1: There was a nurse, an EMT, and then me and
Speaker 1: this commercial actress and she was like, well, we got
Speaker 1: two people that save lives and then us two clowns.
Speaker 1: Like we were like this is gonna be And of
Speaker 1: course they like loved the nurse because she brought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's important because I feel like kids know
Speaker 2: about all those other jobs and I feel like creative
Speaker 2: jobs aren't talked about yet. They're possible, yes, but it's
Speaker 2: an elementary school, so they're so young to even know
Speaker 2: what is like. You know, half of them are like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be a fireman, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like they're not really like that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: They know what nurses are totally is gonna like click
Speaker 2: for someone else's brain totally.
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is I was explaining my creative
Speaker 1: job and I think I was making it sound pretty
Speaker 1: cool and a lot of them were just looking at
Speaker 1: me like wait, what, like they don't get it?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like I was like, you know, they asked me to
Speaker 1: describe my typical day, and I don't really have a
Speaker 1: typical day. Every day is kind of different, So you
Speaker 1: got to kind of manage your own time and you
Speaker 1: can be your own boss. And they were just kind
Speaker 1: of like, you tell us a joke, Like I had
Speaker 1: to go to all different groups, So I did the
Speaker 1: littlest kids first, which is Rosie's group. So that was
Speaker 1: fine because like, I know a lot of those kids,
Speaker 1: and I just like Rosie came up and did a
Speaker 1: little joke into the microphone that I brought. I brought
Speaker 1: my podcasting equipment. I brought my little zoom recorder and
Speaker 1: a mic, and I actually have an extra like kind
Speaker 1: of zoom recorder. It's a different brand, it's Jared's, and
Speaker 1: so I brought that and I like let them I
Speaker 1: handed it around so they could like press the buttons
Speaker 1: or whatever, because they get bored, so you have to
Speaker 1: bring them something to like physically do. So, but the
Speaker 1: oldest kids, it devolved into a who have you met
Speaker 1: that's famous? And they kept asking who have you collabed
Speaker 1: with on your podcast that is the most famous, Like
Speaker 1: they kept saying collab.
Speaker 3: I was like, it's just an interviewer or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I couldn't really think of anybody that we've had
Speaker 1: on the podcast that they would think was cool, like
Speaker 1: as a current modern day fifth grader, you know, without
Speaker 1: being like, oh the voice in this animated movie, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like because we have this show's older,
Speaker 1: so like it's more it's more older people. But like
Speaker 1: I did tell them, I was like, oh, I worked
Speaker 1: on this other show where I got to meet Nicki
Speaker 1: Minaj And they went fucking nuts for that that I
Speaker 1: got to meet Nicki Minaj. They asked if I'd ever
Speaker 1: met Adam Sandler. I said no, I've been on a
Speaker 1: show with him though, and they were like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: And they all love Fluffy like their favorite comedian. I
Speaker 1: was like, do you guys know what stand up comedy is?
Speaker 1: And they were like Fluffy, like they just all love
Speaker 1: not my crowd. Yeah, I said, well I have friends
Speaker 1: who have opened for him.
Speaker 3: Do you know what that means? That's when you like.
Speaker 1: Warm up the crowds talking about you. But other I
Speaker 1: know other people that have opened form also, but like
Speaker 1: but it was really a laugh. Like I was, I
Speaker 1: do not really get nervous performing very much, and I
Speaker 1: was very nervous in front of some of these classes.
Speaker 3: I was like, these kids are gonna rip me apart.
Speaker 2: Of course, that's what's wild it's like you're an adult,
Speaker 2: but like children, teens, college kids, that's the worst. I mean,
Speaker 2: I just did a show for like young twenty year
Speaker 2: olds and I was like, I don't know, I'm wearing
Speaker 2: an ankle sock and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, oh my god, I've just read the ankle
Speaker 3: sock thing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, now, do you think the anklesock thing
Speaker 1: includes like not socks because I mostly wear those like
Speaker 1: socks that you can't see at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's oka that is.
Speaker 1: I thought they were talking about ankle socks where like
Speaker 1: the little bit of ankle comes out over the sneaker,
Speaker 1: which is that' storky you're looking?
Speaker 2: Well, no, not to them. They like a sock. They
Speaker 2: want they like to show the whull sock. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: want to pull a full sock up. Damn, damn, damn, damn.
Speaker 2: I was pop. Everything is just the cycle. So it's
Speaker 2: like a reminder to just do whatever the fuck you want.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, but that's my thing. Older people
Speaker 2: we did not care what older like. I just don't
Speaker 2: remember all this discussion and we've talked about this, like
Speaker 2: why as a thirty five year old do you care
Speaker 2: about the trends? Of a nineteen year olds like, get
Speaker 2: it together right.
Speaker 3: Now, if you're alive.
Speaker 1: The part, the middle part, the vodka sodas we've talked
Speaker 1: about right now.
Speaker 2: But I do like having a middle part now, So
Speaker 2: I guess I do have the younger generation I think
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 3: Wait, so that's the younger kids. How did the older kids?
Speaker 1: They also the cops came and they brought their motorcycles
Speaker 1: and they brought horses, so the kids were obviously like
Speaker 1: gagged over the horses, and then we had to go
Speaker 1: after that. They also brought bomb sniffing dogs, so we
Speaker 1: had to go after that like the little animal show.
Speaker 1: I was like, cool, now I'm going to talk about
Speaker 1: like how you have to have a website or no.
Speaker 3: I didn't even say that.
Speaker 1: I just showed them my website because there's like kind
Speaker 1: of a funny picture of me on it, and I
Speaker 1: was like, so do you think this sells me as
Speaker 1: a comedian? And this one girl goes, I think you
Speaker 1: should have a mustache, and I was like, honestly, that's
Speaker 1: a great idea.
Speaker 3: I was stressed, but it was good. It was funny.
Speaker 1: They were just like asking me, like can I tell
Speaker 1: you a joke? And so like after the oldest kids,
Speaker 1: it was who do you know that's famous? And the
Speaker 1: middle aged kids like the second third, second third, we're
Speaker 1: that second third, fourth, I guess we're asking me, can
Speaker 1: I tell you a joke? And then they were all
Speaker 1: getting up and telling me like, you know, knock knock
Speaker 1: jokes and stuff like that, and it was very cute.
Speaker 2: And what are the summer camp plans? Are they doing regular?
Speaker 2: Are they like doing themed ones? What did you get into?
Speaker 2: What did you get into?
Speaker 1: Well, I'm so glad you asked. I'm so glad you asked.
Speaker 1: I don't probably everywhere there's a lot of moms that
Speaker 1: listen to this podcast. I'm sure it's this is the
Speaker 1: same everywhere. But this is my first summer with Rosie
Speaker 1: in public school, so I've had to like organize her
Speaker 1: whole summer. Oscar just goes to a summer program at
Speaker 1: his school. They just keep going and it's like no
Speaker 1: big deal. And that's what Rosie did. So now you
Speaker 1: have to like jigsaw Tetris this whole week together, and
Speaker 1: there's all these deadlines and shit. So first week she's
Speaker 1: going to zoo camp, which she did one week of
Speaker 1: last year, and she loved it, so she'll be at
Speaker 1: the zoo camp.
Speaker 3: She's pumped. Then she's gonna do You should.
Speaker 2: Let her know I met a chinchilla today, actually today, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: It's only three o'clock. I can't where you are. I
Speaker 3: can't believe you've already met at chinchilla. Well I can't believe.
Speaker 2: As I've been to the stylist's studio, I would say
Speaker 2: five times, and only today I was told that there
Speaker 2: was a chinchilla named Jimmy Chow. And so obviously I
Speaker 2: was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? And
Speaker 2: so I went and got to meet her today.
Speaker 1: Never has a lead been more buried than not exposing
Speaker 1: Lisa to a chinchilla at her stylists named Jimmy Choo.
Speaker 1: Like that is these people need to be punished. H
Speaker 1: But I Then she's going to an art camp for
Speaker 1: a week, and then she's going to a little camp
Speaker 1: that's like through a rec center where they take you
Speaker 1: on field trips and one of them is to a
Speaker 1: water park and she's literally losing her mind.
Speaker 3: She's been talking about it no stop.
Speaker 1: Then she's doing a three week acting camp where they're
Speaker 1: gonna there's gonna be a play and a show and everything.
Speaker 3: And I think she'll be one of the youngest kids.
Speaker 3: So we'll see. We'll see if she.
Speaker 2: Likes it, and then wild Summer so Zoo are field
Speaker 2: trip acting, and then back to field trip for two
Speaker 2: more weeks, and then we go out of town for
Speaker 2: two weeks.
Speaker 3: She's gonna have the summer of her life. I know,
Speaker 3: she keeps. She goes, why don't I have to go
Speaker 3: to school every day?
Speaker 1: And I go, first of all, you love, this is
Speaker 1: just the most expensive summer of your life, like you.
Speaker 3: Know what some of them were.
Speaker 1: Actually, she if I could, I would just do this
Speaker 1: rec center camp every week because those are affordable.
Speaker 3: The other ones are expensive.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's what I paid for her to
Speaker 1: go to a private, fucking preschool. So I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: happy I got the year off of paying for that
Speaker 1: for two kids. But yeah, she's she's pumped. I think
Speaker 1: she's gonna be doing fun stuff. We'll see. And Oscar,
Speaker 1: we'll see. He doesn't like his school very much. I
Speaker 1: don't know if he'll like it when the summer program starts,
Speaker 1: because it's like less structured.
Speaker 3: Maybe he'll be into that. Isn't the whole thing when
Speaker 3: Mom's a story, no structure.
Speaker 1: No, it's like what I think of it is, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like organized, unstructured. Like so I got to
Speaker 1: go and I had never been able to go and
Speaker 1: sit in the classroom and watch them do something. I
Speaker 1: did this like two weeks ago because Rosie was there
Speaker 1: for COVID, so like you were never allowed to go
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 3: Now they're letting people do it. So I went in.
Speaker 3: You're supposed to sit in a chair.
Speaker 1: You're really not supposed to like communicate with your kid,
Speaker 1: which of course confuses them. And all the kids are
Speaker 1: trying to talk to me and ask me in things
Speaker 1: and show me things. And they basically have all these
Speaker 1: little jobs and things around the room and they can
Speaker 1: take whatever they want, but they have to like go
Speaker 1: do their job quietly, and like a job could be
Speaker 1: like a puzzle or like looking through at a butterfly
Speaker 1: through a magnifying glass, or organizing these shapes into a tower,
Speaker 1: like you can do whichever one you want, but you
Speaker 1: just have to be doing something like that, so it
Speaker 1: doesn't have a wild There's other places that are considered
Speaker 1: more play based, where kids are just like wilding out
Speaker 1: doing whatever they want. And that's I wouldn't say that's
Speaker 1: the vibe at this place. It's like choice but more
Speaker 1: but structured.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, Yeah it was cute though. I was glad
Speaker 1: I got to see it. I was, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like a little fly on the wall. But yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's all I have from kid watch. What else is
Speaker 1: going on drag Race? Did you have any thoughts I'm
Speaker 1: watching I've watched now the first three.
Speaker 2: Well, we're in the time machine, so we're talking about
Speaker 2: tails and titties and snatch love games.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's where we're at.
Speaker 2: I think Got Mixed Dog is my number one favorite
Speaker 2: of all time.
Speaker 3: Like I loved her. I loved it. I did not
Speaker 3: know where that was going to go. I was like,
Speaker 3: you're being lassy, and then it was so good.
Speaker 1: It's just you're creative, you can make you can make
Speaker 1: a lot of things work.
Speaker 2: And the outfit was incredible, Like she was like really
Speaker 2: catapulted herself as like no, no, no, I'm the I'm the
Speaker 2: front runner. Actually yeah, and it was clear to see
Speaker 2: this episode it's.
Speaker 3: Got Mixed to lose. I think she's so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if only Plastic could be a little funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, only, and Plustique is.
Speaker 1: Gorge I mean she's otherworldly. I would say, yeah, she's
Speaker 1: so pretty.
Speaker 2: Well because I didn't really know the true depths of
Speaker 2: Plastic until the drive in Drag Race show of Pandemic,
Speaker 2: and I was blown away because I just thought she
Speaker 2: was a look queen, which is also cool, but the
Speaker 2: performance was pop star level.
Speaker 3: I was so impressed.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I have no idea, and that's
Speaker 2: why I think when the drag queens are like, your
Speaker 2: opinions actually don't matter because this is a show and
Speaker 2: all of them are good at drag yes, like, so
Speaker 2: that was eye.
Speaker 3: Opening to me. And but same with Violet.
Speaker 2: She's a quote unquote look queen, but she's doing incredible shows,
Speaker 2: the Stilace style performance, and she's about to fulfill her
Speaker 2: dream in Paris. She's performing at the maybe not Mulan Route,
Speaker 2: but she's performing. She's a residency in Paris and it's
Speaker 2: her goal.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: She talks about it on the pit stop, which for
Speaker 2: some reason, you're trying to prove something by not watching,
Speaker 2: but I am watching.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna watch it. Violet's also very funny and like cutting.
Speaker 1: You know, like the thing is is like you you know,
Speaker 1: they all have their strengths, and you're trying to find
Speaker 1: the person that's the best at all of the things,
Speaker 1: or that you know at least can do some of
Speaker 1: the things. It's like, yes, Georgius is a great dancer.
Speaker 1: You're never going to convince me that Georgious is ever
Speaker 1: going to be good at an acting challenge or a
Speaker 1: imitation challenge or anything like that. You know, Like, and
Speaker 1: she looks great. So Violet's going to be at the
Speaker 1: Crazy Horse. Ah yeah in Paris.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I guess I'm plugging Violet States June twenty
Speaker 2: fourth through the twenty eighth.
Speaker 3: That's where she'll be.
Speaker 1: All right and go see our good friend Violet CHOCHKEI
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if I could actually handle it.
Speaker 2: I don't dress good enough to be around Violet.
Speaker 3: But you know, I mean, I.
Speaker 1: Know, I gotta watch I gotta watch the goddamn pit Stop.
Speaker 1: I just don't watch anything on YouTube is my thing.
Speaker 1: I'm like fully telling you, as I'm an old person
Speaker 1: that doesn't watch YouTube. I have so much shit on
Speaker 1: my TV and my streaming and everything, and I'm just
Speaker 1: like not popping on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm watching Hacks from season one because I kind
Speaker 2: of wanna watch it. This holy to be able to
Speaker 2: watch the finale with everything all at once in the
Speaker 2: I think I'm on is so good, so impressed with
Speaker 2: everything they do.
Speaker 3: I love Hacks, I really love it. I love Hacks
Speaker 3: so much. I think I'm on.
Speaker 1: I'm only not caught up on this week, this week's
Speaker 1: two episodes or yeah.
Speaker 2: They continue to surprise me, challenge me, make me laugh,
Speaker 2: make me tear up, be impressed with the overall production everywhere,
Speaker 2: Like I just fucking love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's It's also like there are shows like thirty
Speaker 1: Rock or whatever that I consider to be one of
Speaker 1: the best sitcoms of or Veep where there's like all
Speaker 1: hard jokes, just constant joke joke, joke, joke joke. This
Speaker 1: show also has a lot of hard jokes, but then
Speaker 1: also has all this heart you know what I mean exactly? Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a real gem. If you're not watching Hacks,
Speaker 1: what the hell is wrong with you?
Speaker 2: And even like season three is so good, and then
Speaker 2: going back to season one and just remembering how I
Speaker 2: felt when I first started watching it, Like it really is,
Speaker 2: I think one of my favorite contemporary shows, if not
Speaker 2: number one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: I'm also catching up on all the old Saturday Night
Speaker 1: Lives from the rest of this season right now, like
Speaker 1: because I had like seven of them on my DVR
Speaker 1: and was like, I need to watch these, so like,
Speaker 1: I just watched the Josh Brolin Ariana last night, and
Speaker 1: the and the Well.
Speaker 2: I mean not to brag, but the woman doing my
Speaker 2: set design for my special did ariana grande set design
Speaker 2: for SNL what.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you liked it, they it was
Speaker 3: mind blowing.
Speaker 1: I literally said, Wow, her sets are like nothing I've
Speaker 1: seen on SNL before.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, her name is Amanda, and I cannot wait to
Speaker 1: see I can't believe I have not even gotten a
Speaker 1: sneak peek text of a sketch or anything. I've gotten nothing.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm also, you know, I'm trying to be as
Speaker 2: chill as possible. So unless it's like a decision that
Speaker 2: I need to make, I'm telling people to leave me alone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and letting the professionals do their job. Yeah, you
Speaker 3: go get it together.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, you're also, yeah, I'm trying to keep
Speaker 2: it chill and act like whatever, and so you guys
Speaker 2: go run around, but no, I just got was it
Speaker 2: with her?
Speaker 3: We talked.
Speaker 2: I got one photo of like a piece, and I
Speaker 2: was like, uh, you know, but this always happens when
Speaker 2: you work with really cool professionals that are good at
Speaker 2: what they do. Whatever you have in your head is
Speaker 2: it's gonna be ten times what you can imagine because
Speaker 2: you're not even a pro at what you're doing, Like
Speaker 2: you can't. Hopefully when you hire people that are really
Speaker 2: good that they blow you away because yeah, yeah, they
Speaker 2: have the skills that you can't imagine.
Speaker 3: Do you know? I worked with.
Speaker 1: This guy on this fucking Nickelodeon show that I worked
Speaker 1: on where I was the I was like a writer's
Speaker 1: assistant and an assistant to the producer. And he has
Speaker 1: like done the set design for Taylor for all these
Speaker 1: like amazing videos Beyoncey, Like he is so fucking good
Speaker 1: and I just can't believe he worked on this little
Speaker 1: Nickelodeon show.
Speaker 2: I'm a little confused why we haven't ever asked many
Speaker 2: favors of this person.
Speaker 1: I haven't just now hearing about this, I haven't talked
Speaker 1: to him in a while, but yeah, he's like, he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he worked on the Aras tour. I guess I'm looking
Speaker 1: at his Instagram. I'll send you his instagram. Ethan toabman.
Speaker 1: He's very he's very talented, and I'm honestly on par
Speaker 1: with one of you. Brought me a full fat coke.
Speaker 1: I am in a rage at the moment, but we're
Speaker 1: not like he's not like a guy where I can
Speaker 1: be like, hey, can you give me tickets?
Speaker 3: You know, like, we're not.
Speaker 2: I hate asking for favorite because I actually had someone
Speaker 2: atline Age be like, well, what do you mean to
Speaker 2: we could have helped you, and I go, I'm not
Speaker 2: fucking like you gotta. Yeah, he did the fucking new
Speaker 2: Alien stuff. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And he was on this little Nickelodeon show with me
Speaker 1: and we're, yeah, we're he's really I talented.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, oh god, this is incredible. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: the new stuff for the TTPD is incredible. And he
Speaker 2: posted when he did anti Hero. Wait he did her
Speaker 2: for SNL I think too. Yeah, thirty Rockfeller, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: love I love it.
Speaker 1: And he did the Anti Hero video and stuff, which
Speaker 1: I thought was like visually cool and I liked. I thought,
Speaker 1: I think he's really but I honestly think he worked
Speaker 1: on like formation, like the Beyonce Like he really has
Speaker 1: been like doing so much cool shit and he's, yeah,
Speaker 1: just a killer creative.
Speaker 3: So I can't believe that he did this new set.
Speaker 3: This is everybody.
Speaker 1: He'll give Ethan Todman a follow. He's very, very talented.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sells again.
Speaker 3: Lemonage. He was part of Lemonade. Well, I think they.
Speaker 2: I think the lemon they Rolling Stone did like the
Speaker 2: top one hundred albums of all time, and uh, Lemonade
Speaker 2: is in top ten, which is or I'm making something
Speaker 2: fully up, but I mean.
Speaker 1: It should be in my opinion, I thought, let me
Speaker 1: get stop the best and is everything? Yeah, Like I
Speaker 1: love that album, and I guess the only country album
Speaker 1: to make the list is Casey Musgraves Look at that,
Speaker 1: which is what I tell people where I'm like, she
Speaker 1: transcended in a way where this is one of the
Speaker 1: greatest albums of all time.
Speaker 3: It is what it is. Golden Hour is so good.
Speaker 3: I was listening to it yesterday.
Speaker 1: All right, Casey's already given us the twenty minute, so
Speaker 1: we should probably grasp it up.
Speaker 3: Us.
Speaker 2: Really, living on opposite coasts has increased the time of
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Sorry, guys, you're gonna have to get long intros now
Speaker 1: because we don't live down the street from each other anymore.
Speaker 1: But before we get into this great episode, let's let
Speaker 1: me just remind you guys that if you go to
Speaker 1: That's mess up live dot com, you can get the
Speaker 1: new restock of do you Have Children Detective t shirts
Speaker 1: two different styles, there's the toe bag, there's other great
Speaker 1: shit to buy, and then it also has a link
Speaker 1: to our promo codes for all the stuff that we advertise.
Speaker 1: If you're in the market for anything, why not use
Speaker 1: a promo code support us get money off. It all works,
Speaker 1: and you can get the Lisa's website link takes you
Speaker 1: to all her summer dates that she's doing. So get
Speaker 1: involved and yeah, let's kick it off. This episode's wild. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this episode Possessed. It sounds like it's
Speaker 1: gonna be about, you know, spooky spirits, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's from season twelve, Season twelve, episode twelve, and the opening.
Speaker 1: The show opens with a guy who definitely flat irons
Speaker 1: his hair running up some apartment steps and pounding on
Speaker 1: an apartment door, yelling Larissa, Larissa, over and over. An
Speaker 1: older lady neighbor My favorite SVU side character, the Manhattan
Speaker 1: neighbor lady that's like, and who are you? And she goes,
Speaker 1: I'm Patrick, I'm Larissa's boyfriend. And the lady goes, prove it.
Speaker 1: She watches us for you, and he goes, I walk
Speaker 1: her home every night she didn't show up at work,
Speaker 1: and then he flashes her a picture of him and
Speaker 1: Larissa looking like cozy, and she gives it up and goes,
Speaker 1: I have a spare key for emergencies, so she gives
Speaker 1: it to him. He opens the door, but the chain
Speaker 1: is locked so he can't open the door all the way.
Speaker 1: But he can see Larissa unconscious in a chair, wearing underwear,
Speaker 1: her hair and pigtails, and a camcorder is set up,
Speaker 1: so something bad is happening, so flat iron hair.
Speaker 3: But I LIFs down the door that the old woman
Speaker 3: isn't like with the guy. She's just like, all right,
Speaker 3: proof enough here, you take the keys and have fun. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like I.
Speaker 2: Would, I would help, but I would still try to
Speaker 2: be involved.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, like my fingers on the nine one
Speaker 1: one buttons on my phone. So Patrick breaks down the
Speaker 1: door and then he sees like Lorissa's hands are bound,
Speaker 1: her ankles are tied to the chair, and there are
Speaker 1: a ton of white and blue pills all over the
Speaker 1: carpet in front of her. He's trying to wake her up.
Speaker 1: He's like, Lauris, wake up, wake up. And then suddenly
Speaker 1: a huge in tidy whities hits the boyfriend Patrick with
Speaker 1: a camera tripod. He's also wearing a terrifying clear face
Speaker 1: mask and growling getaway from Brandy. So that's a nightmare.
Speaker 1: That's truly nightmare fuel come to life. Patrick fights with
Speaker 1: this guy while the camera goes over to Larissa slash Brandy,
Speaker 1: and we are seeing now that she is played by
Speaker 1: Taron Manning, who you probably know from Orange is the
Speaker 1: New Black, where she was Tiffany Pens a tucky Doggett
Speaker 1: or Crossroads, Hustle and Flow. She's been acting for many,
Speaker 1: many years, and she is also a singer, which I
Speaker 1: didn't know anyway. These two dudes are fighting it out
Speaker 1: and then Patrick lands on the ground, blood all over.
Speaker 3: Sorry, he has no shot. Yeah, the boy man Barry,
Speaker 3: he's the big guy.
Speaker 1: The man is very large, and then they zoom in
Speaker 1: on Larissa's underwear and they're like little girl style briefs,
Speaker 1: Like these are not adult underwear. They're little girl style
Speaker 1: briefs that have brandy like embroidered on them with flowers.
Speaker 3: It's very creepy.
Speaker 1: We cut to a hospital walk and talk where Benson
Speaker 1: and Stabler are getting the scoop from a doctor. Patrick
Speaker 1: has a scalp laceration, but he's coherent. As for the girl,
Speaker 1: her name is Larissa Welsh. She is unconscious, not beaten,
Speaker 1: but she's overdosed on rhypnom so she wasn't part of
Speaker 1: the fight.
Speaker 3: She just had a roofy overdose.
Speaker 1: He also found vaginal scarring, but no signs of sexual
Speaker 1: assault or seamen, Like I guess immediate sexual assault. And
Speaker 1: she has bandages all over her arms and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: sexual torture because she came in with a dozen fresh
Speaker 1: razor cuts and they're like, oh, is it sexual torture?
Speaker 1: And they're like, no, her attacker shaved her from the
Speaker 1: neck down, so her attacker just doesn't know how to
Speaker 1: work a razor without cutting, and so horrific.
Speaker 3: What's going on? Credits dun dum okay.
Speaker 1: So, now Benson and Stabler are talking to Patrick, who's,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to combat what Lisa just said.
Speaker 3: And he's like, I could have taken him.
Speaker 1: I have three older brothers, like or whatever, but he
Speaker 1: obviously couldn't. And he and Larissa have been dating for
Speaker 1: six months, he said, but they've known each other for
Speaker 1: two years. That's how long it took her to open
Speaker 1: herself up to a relationship. She was a foster kid.
Speaker 1: She doesn't like to talk about things that happened to her.
Speaker 1: And he's never seen that attacker before and he's like,
Speaker 1: I would have remembered a fat, sweaty creep.
Speaker 3: So he's not a fan of this guy.
Speaker 1: Benson asks him about the Brandy underwear, and he does
Speaker 1: not know who Brandy is, but he does remember Larissa
Speaker 1: telling him that she hates that name. So in the precinct,
Speaker 1: now Munch gives us an only in New York moment.
Speaker 1: He goes, only in New York can you have no
Speaker 1: witnesses to a masked man running down the street in
Speaker 1: his tidy whities Curlassic Sure coffee table book of these
Speaker 1: only in New York? Munch quotes, they said, Okay, so
Speaker 1: they've hit a dead end on all the DNA from
Speaker 1: Patrick or Larissa's exams. They also found Rufie's and viagra
Speaker 1: at the scene. Finn lets us know that this isn't
Speaker 1: this guy's first crime, because there's an MO that matches
Speaker 1: the rape of two ten year old girls in New
Speaker 1: Jersey and Connecticut. Benson's never heard of a guy who
Speaker 1: attacks women and little girls, and Stabler's like, well, maybe
Speaker 1: that's why he shaved Larissa. So both the New Jersey
Speaker 1: and the Connecticut victims had long blonde hair, and the
Speaker 1: perp put them in pigtails, and he called them both brandy.
Speaker 1: So that is a very specific am. So now we're
Speaker 1: in Montclair, New Jersey, home of Stephen Colbert and my
Speaker 1: old boss, and Finn is talking to one of the
Speaker 1: little girls and she says she doesn't know why the
Speaker 1: guy called her Brandy because her name is Kelly. And
Speaker 1: she says, you know, this is a fat phobic episode
Speaker 1: for these a lot of these characters.
Speaker 3: She goes, he was gross and.
Speaker 1: Fat, she says, and made her do her hair like
Speaker 1: the girl in the picture, a girl named Brandy. And
Speaker 1: then she pointed to her shoulder and says even here
Speaker 1: and explains that Brandy had a birthmark, so he drew
Speaker 1: one on her and then he heard her.
Speaker 3: She says, cut to.
Speaker 1: The other victim, the Connecticut victim, I'm assuming Paula, She
Speaker 1: says to Stabler, the guy hurt me very badly, but
Speaker 1: I can't say anything else. And this little girl's name
Speaker 1: is Paula and she is played by none other than
Speaker 1: Sabrina Carpenter's So sick and Taylor's era's opener catch that
Speaker 1: at all? Are but you even told me that? And
Speaker 1: I didn't catch it.
Speaker 3: But I didn't remember who she was.
Speaker 1: I was like, she's in this episode, but I forgot
Speaker 1: who she was and my face, Yeah, she's cute and
Speaker 1: she's amazing.
Speaker 3: I'm like obsessed with her.
Speaker 2: I do want to know if their relationship is real
Speaker 2: or not, because it is a great attend It's like.
Speaker 1: It's a good attention thing. He's not that attractive to me,
Speaker 1: but like maybe he's really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, who knows my thing is? I mean
Speaker 2: she's very young. But it's strange because I don't want children.
Speaker 2: So if I were to date someone with a kid,
Speaker 2: that's not for I don't want that. But then if
Speaker 2: they were down to date. Even if they a kid,
Speaker 2: I'd be grossed out that they're a bad parent, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like he has a kid with
Speaker 2: his ex and he left her. It was one of
Speaker 2: those like Oh I'm famous now, so I'm gonna piece
Speaker 2: out bye. So he and so in my head it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're at Coachell, You're in all these places.
Speaker 3: Where is your kid? Are you a bad father? Well
Speaker 3: with the mom, I'm assuming right, sure, but where is
Speaker 3: your kid? Bro?
Speaker 2: Like where you're just running around at the met Like
Speaker 2: where are you? And so to me it's like, well
Speaker 2: she is twenty five, Like who gives a shit? You're
Speaker 2: you know, you're like whatever, let's party, you're hot, you're
Speaker 2: obsessed with me.
Speaker 3: But in my head, I'm like, where's your kid? Bro?
Speaker 3: Say what Jermal?
Speaker 2: And why all these guys, all these guys that get
Speaker 2: famous they split up and then it's like your your
Speaker 2: career blew up?
Speaker 3: The SpongeBob dude, where where's your kid?
Speaker 1: Bro?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Like these girls date these dudes and it's fine.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they're getting all this attention because they're famous
Speaker 2: pop stars that are so hot and cool, but like,
Speaker 2: is she like oh yeah, fuck your wife and that
Speaker 2: kid ill?
Speaker 3: Or is she like why or are they hang out
Speaker 3: with the kid?
Speaker 2: Or is he like, I'm actually gone four days a week,
Speaker 2: I can only see you these three days, Like I
Speaker 2: just some curious.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like none of my business.
Speaker 1: Sick was like dating one of the Rena girls, or
Speaker 1: when like he is dating Sophia Richie. Are they ever
Speaker 1: like Wow, where are your three kids? Like are they
Speaker 1: like with Courtney? Like you know, I don't know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I that is something that's in the back
Speaker 2: of my mind with these guys that leave their partners
Speaker 2: and baby children to date up or whatnot, and in her.
Speaker 3: In many cases date very down wi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because in her song she goes, I'm glad your
Speaker 2: ex didn't do it for you.
Speaker 3: Too bad you X did do? I like that song
Speaker 3: a lot. I love that song. It's the song of
Speaker 3: the summer. Everyone loves it.
Speaker 2: It's finally it was it attacked me this week, Like
Speaker 2: I was actually kind of fine not being obsessed, but
Speaker 2: now I'm fully obsessed.
Speaker 3: But I just am curious, are you.
Speaker 2: I would be unattra I would be less attracted to
Speaker 2: someone who's a bad parent, But overall, I don't want
Speaker 2: a child anywhere near me in my.
Speaker 3: Life, so.
Speaker 2: So that's not an issue for me, but it's just
Speaker 2: something I think about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, interesting, interesting, Well let me know what you guys think. Yeah,
Speaker 3: weigh in the little Paula.
Speaker 1: She's like, like the first girl's obviously scared, but Paula
Speaker 1: is like very terrified, and well reminds.
Speaker 2: Me of the interrogations of like the honey.
Speaker 3: Stick episode you remember.
Speaker 2: I just sad when these little girls have to recall
Speaker 2: what happened to them. It is one of the tougher
Speaker 2: parts of SBU is like watching little kids have to
Speaker 2: explain what happened to them.
Speaker 3: I don't like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and luckily most of them are going to
Speaker 1: become huge pop stars and nothing hopefully happened to them
Speaker 1: for real. So she's like, I can't tell you anything else,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's like, well, you know, you could really help
Speaker 1: me to stop this guy from hurting other girls, and
Speaker 1: you can talk to me. And then she goes, are
Speaker 1: you testing me? And he's like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: And she goes, well, he said people would test me
Speaker 1: to try to trick me into telling, and that he
Speaker 1: would hurt me and my dad and stablers, like he
Speaker 1: only said that to scare you, and Elliott promises to
Speaker 1: protect her if she spills, and she's like, well, what
Speaker 1: about the letter? And then she goes and gets this
Speaker 1: letter and she said she found it under her pillow
Speaker 1: and she said, quote unquote they put it there. And
Speaker 1: he's like who, and she says Coventry. And in the
Speaker 1: letter in the envelope is a photograph of a hand
Speaker 1: holding up a huge coin with a heart within a
Speaker 1: heart on it that says Coventry and then in written
Speaker 1: and sharpie on the bottom of it says we're watching you, Paula.
Speaker 1: So this is very reminiscent of the Colleen stan episode
Speaker 1: where they people are using or even the abducted in
Speaker 1: plain sight, where they tell young people or victims that
Speaker 1: they're being followed by this huge organization that's watching them
Speaker 1: and is going to hurt them, and it's like this
Speaker 1: conspiracy and it's a full it's just like a full
Speaker 1: intimidation tactic. It's not true, of course, So we cut
Speaker 1: to Huang on the case analyzing the photo, explaining that
Speaker 1: the hearts have been identified by the FBI as underground
Speaker 1: pedophile trading symbols. He's seen them on coins, rings, necklaces,
Speaker 1: but he's never seen them used as an intimidation tactic.
Speaker 1: And then he pulls up a few other pedo related
Speaker 1: symbols and definitely something to check out before you get
Speaker 1: that tattoo. But I looked him up as well, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't just for this episode. It's a real thing.
Speaker 1: A triangle within a triangle is boy lovers, a heart
Speaker 1: within a heart means girl lovers. And then butterflies, Like,
Speaker 1: there's a butterfly that has kind of wings that look
Speaker 1: like hearts indicate just general child lovers that don't have
Speaker 1: a gender preference.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh no, that kind.
Speaker 1: Of looks like the symbol at Dollywood because it is butterflies.
Speaker 3: But we can move on. That's not real.
Speaker 1: So the rapist might be part of a ring, but
Speaker 1: either way, he's fixated on Larissa. But he needed viagra
Speaker 1: because she's an adult woo and not a child, So
Speaker 1: what is comed So don't do it?
Speaker 3: How about that? How about you don't know it?
Speaker 1: Then if your body's telling you no, the answer is no,
Speaker 1: why are you're.
Speaker 3: Taking viagra to fucking assault people? You sick?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Ugh?
Speaker 1: This guy really is so so sick. So what is Coventry?
Speaker 1: According to Munch, they're the boogeyman. They use the name
Speaker 1: to scare their victims, a lot of pedophiles. So then
Speaker 1: they watch this very disturbing video where a guy calls
Speaker 1: a little girl Brandy, and he has his voice disguised,
Speaker 1: and he demands that she take off her clothes or
Speaker 1: Coventry will kill her in her entire family. And Elliott
Speaker 1: pauses the video on this girl and notices that she
Speaker 1: has the same star shaped birthmark that Larissa has. So
Speaker 1: apparently Brandy was the most popular of all of these
Speaker 1: Coventry videos because of her star shaped birthmark. It like
Speaker 1: made her special or something for these pedos. So some
Speaker 1: baby CSU tech shows up and says that he was
Speaker 1: able to zoom in on the photo that Paula gave
Speaker 1: them because he's holding it like with his fingertips open
Speaker 1: and he's able to zoom in and get a print
Speaker 1: off of the photo, which is wild. And this is
Speaker 1: actually CSU technician Adrian Sung played by James Chen. He's
Speaker 1: appeared in seven episodes in seasons twelve and thirteen as
Speaker 1: a CSU tech, but I don't think they ever give
Speaker 1: him anything juicy, like they've done with some of our
Speaker 1: other CSU boys or girls. The fingerprint matches to a
Speaker 1: guy named Eldon Baylog, which is a man with unfortunate
Speaker 1: facial hair you can see from his mugshot. He did
Speaker 1: time in O six for lude and lacibus acts with
Speaker 1: a child and he lives in Park Slope. So the
Speaker 1: next thing we know, the gang is busting whoop whoop.
Speaker 1: Next thing we know, the gang is busting into this
Speaker 1: guy's apartment, weapons drawn. He doesn't seem to be there,
Speaker 1: but there is a like literally this guy was like,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna leave all the evidence lying around in
Speaker 1: case anyone pops by, Like they get there, there's a
Speaker 1: freeze frame of him like about to attack Larissa up
Speaker 1: on his cam quarder.
Speaker 3: Because I doubt he thinks he's done anything wrong. That's
Speaker 3: my thing. He's like, oh yeah, you know this is normal.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, this guy, what did I keep everything around
Speaker 2: and look at all the time. I mean, he is
Speaker 2: I fucking hate him, but he's popular act.
Speaker 3: But he also like he also wears a mask.
Speaker 1: It's like you kind of know in some way that
Speaker 1: you're not doing the right, that you're like I don't know.
Speaker 1: But this guy also seems like he has like some
Speaker 1: kind of low IQ or something like that.
Speaker 2: I'm going through his IMDb because he is so familiar
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 3: I mean he's buzz.
Speaker 2: He's buzz, but I wouldn't know him from that, Like
Speaker 2: his adult face looks so familiar.
Speaker 3: But I'm looking through it and I'm like, I don't
Speaker 3: he works a lot?
Speaker 2: Like, wait, he was in Louis No, he's like in
Speaker 2: a few He's Oh he was in girls but party guest.
Speaker 3: There's no way I would remember. Yeah, how do I
Speaker 3: know him? Just? Maybe it is just from home alone?
Speaker 1: Yeah, buzz from home alone and the next home, the
Speaker 1: second home alone. The actor's name is Devin Rotree or Ratrey,
Speaker 1: and he is working, I mean he is still working,
Speaker 1: does work.
Speaker 3: He's booked and blast baby.
Speaker 1: So all this shits up, and uh, there's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: freeze frame of Larissa from like the moment before Patrick
Speaker 1: at like interrupted and what he's like about to attack her.
Speaker 1: Sabler finds a pillowcase on the couch, spills it out.
Speaker 1: It's filled with VHS tapes and photos. They hear a
Speaker 1: beeping and they see that he's left his email account
Speaker 1: open and that he's just sending himself photos and they
Speaker 1: open one and it's Larissa in her hospital bed.
Speaker 3: Fuck. This guy is at the hospital like horrific.
Speaker 1: So they call Live and now we see Live dashing
Speaker 1: into Larissa's room, but she's gone, and a nurse shows
Speaker 1: up and goes, what are you doing? And Orderly took
Speaker 1: her for testing twenty minutes ago, and the nurse IDs
Speaker 1: eld m baylog from a photo as the Orderly, So
Speaker 1: now Live has them lock this fucking hospital down Elliot's back.
Speaker 1: Now they're checking every floor looking for Larissa. Elliott finds
Speaker 1: a locked room and has to security open it. He
Speaker 1: walks in to find Larissa unconscious on a bed and
Speaker 1: this nasty psycho zipping up his fly and he goes,
Speaker 1: it's okay, I was just taking her temperature.
Speaker 3: And kill him. I want to kill him. Stabler flies
Speaker 3: at this Jude like the Stabler goes.
Speaker 1: Like forward like a bullet, slams this guy into a
Speaker 1: roll of locker, a row of lockers, and then just
Speaker 1: proceeds to beat the shit out of him. Finn has
Speaker 1: to pull him off and lives just like the son
Speaker 1: of a bitch attacked her again and then the dude
Speaker 1: is sitting there smiling like an idiot, so you can't
Speaker 1: tell whether he's like pure evil or just like not
Speaker 1: all the marbles are upstairs, So top of BC two,
Speaker 1: Larissa is finally awake, and she is not happy.
Speaker 3: She's like, how.
Speaker 1: Could this happen after everything I've been through? Like what
Speaker 1: the fuck? And she's about to walk out. She's like,
Speaker 1: this hospital, let me get raped, like a second time,
Speaker 1: and Benson begs her to stay and is like, please
Speaker 1: let the doctors keep an eye on it.
Speaker 3: I love this your notes.
Speaker 2: I love the Larissa is finally awake and she is
Speaker 2: not happy.
Speaker 3: Because it's been a.
Speaker 1: Full act and we haven't seen Taren Manning say one
Speaker 1: word yet, like and now she's up dressed.
Speaker 3: And pissed, and she's like, lives, like, let's stay here.
Speaker 1: Let the doctors keep an eye on her, on you,
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, because they're doing such a great job,
Speaker 1: like they just fucking let my attacker walk me out
Speaker 1: of here, and she wants to know what the hell
Speaker 1: Benson even wants out of all of this, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I just want to tell you that we caught him
Speaker 1: and he's never gonna hurt you again. So she calms
Speaker 1: down for a second and asks Olivia, like, did he
Speaker 1: take pictures?
Speaker 3: Right before I passed out?
Speaker 1: He told me he was going to take pictures, and
Speaker 1: I was wondering if he took pictures, and she goes, no,
Speaker 1: he took a video, and Larissa goes not again. So
Speaker 1: Live starts putting the pieces together and goes, so, this
Speaker 1: happened when you were a child, you were brandy, and
Speaker 1: she says, yeah, and I always will be, like I
Speaker 1: can feel when I'm on the street, when I'm in
Speaker 1: the subway, men are staring at me. It's because they
Speaker 1: recognize me from these movies, and they're perverts and they
Speaker 1: have a very specific look in their e and she says,
Speaker 1: they'll never leave me alone. And she's like, I wish
Speaker 1: she would have just killed me. And it's horrible. It
Speaker 1: reminds me a little bit of the Megan Faye episode.
Speaker 1: Also this whole time terrible. Yeah, So the guy who attacked.
Speaker 3: Larissa, so our good friend, Meghan Fahey, just our friend
Speaker 3: of the pod.
Speaker 2: So don't worry, we are still humble, wet. We did
Speaker 2: not get Taren Manning. So if that was something you
Speaker 2: were hoping for listening that that.
Speaker 3: Was not happening.
Speaker 2: It's not happening, but you know, we'll always have Meghan
Speaker 2: fay Hey in our hearts.
Speaker 3: Of course. Of course.
Speaker 1: So she says that the guy who attacked her is
Speaker 1: not the guy who attacked her as a child. She's like,
Speaker 1: this last guy followed me home, broke in. I screamed,
Speaker 1: he shoved pills down my throat, and as she was
Speaker 1: passing out, she remembers him saying, this is the happiest
Speaker 1: day of my life.
Speaker 3: So fucked up. So cut to him saying these words too.
Speaker 1: He's going, this is the happiest day of He's finishing
Speaker 1: the sentence and me realizing that it is buzz from
Speaker 1: home alone, like I hadn't noticed until just this moment.
Speaker 1: And he tells the detectives he's been looking for Brandy
Speaker 1: for years. He starts telling Stabler that after he shaved her,
Speaker 1: if he squinted his eyes, she looked like she was little. Again, like,
Speaker 1: it's so casey. He's making a disgusted face. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he does not like, yeah, he's grinning because he's like
Speaker 1: reliving it.
Speaker 3: And then they show him pictures of Kelly and Paula.
Speaker 1: The ten year olds and he goes aw and they're like,
Speaker 1: these are the two girls you raped and he goes,
Speaker 1: it wasn't rape.
Speaker 3: They played Brandy for me.
Speaker 1: So this is when you start to realize this guy
Speaker 1: has no concept like he is a a pedophile, but
Speaker 1: he's on like another plane of understanding how the law
Speaker 1: or society works, like he doesn't get it. And then
Speaker 1: he admits to selling to sending Paula the letter about Coventry.
Speaker 3: He says, what I did with them was natural.
Speaker 1: His love for Brandy is pure and honest, as real
Speaker 1: as the love you feel for your wife. And it's
Speaker 1: like you do not talk to Stabler about his wife
Speaker 1: and equate his love for his wife with the love
Speaker 1: of a.
Speaker 3: Pedophile on a child.
Speaker 1: And he is trying so hard not to bash this
Speaker 1: man's face in like that is what Christopher Maloney is
Speaker 1: so good at, like just showing so much rage and
Speaker 1: kind of like trying to stay calm, and Stabler tells him,
Speaker 1: you're insane, and he goes, no, no, just jealous, and
Speaker 1: he goes, I was jealous of the old man, and
Speaker 1: he goes, I never meant to murder him. Another reason,
Speaker 1: Like this guy is just off his Rocker. He's just
Speaker 1: like confessing to murder, saying rape isn't rape, Like what's
Speaker 1: happening with him?
Speaker 3: Eldon says that the old man is named Underwood.
Speaker 1: And he met him online and he knew Brandy as
Speaker 1: a child, this guy Underwood, and he just wanted him
Speaker 1: to give up Brandy's real name. So at Orville Underwood's
Speaker 1: home on Grove Street, Benson, which is in the West Village,
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler find signs of a struggle and blood,
Speaker 1: and then they find a man alive but bloody, wearing
Speaker 1: silk pajamas. I'm just like confused about the timeline because
Speaker 1: if this guy beat up this man, then he went
Speaker 1: to Larissa's house, tied her up, did all this stuff,
Speaker 1: drugged her, then her boyfriend got home.
Speaker 3: All this, she went to the hospital.
Speaker 1: Then he went back to the hospital, kidnapped her, assaulted
Speaker 1: her again. In all this time, this old man's just
Speaker 1: been sitting here bleeding and not dead.
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, so I think it's one of those
Speaker 2: like one hundred and twenty seven hours, but instead of
Speaker 2: a limb rockets, you know.
Speaker 3: An old man bleeding with a head wound.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So he goes it's always this way ever
Speaker 1: since they accused me of raping that girl.
Speaker 3: So he's trying to play like little old man.
Speaker 1: And his bed has a pillow on it that's missing
Speaker 1: a pillowcase, and the other pillowcases matched the one that
Speaker 1: Stabler dumped out at Elden's place. So Underwood said he
Speaker 1: only gave Eldon Larissa's real name because he threatened to
Speaker 1: kill him. So liv realizes that this old pervert Underwood
Speaker 1: is the one who turned Larissa into Brandy. And Underwood
Speaker 1: is played by an actor named David Patrick Kelly who
Speaker 1: has been acting for decades. He was in He's also
Speaker 1: been on Regular Order and Criminal Intent, plus Twin Peaks.
Speaker 1: He was a character, He's been on Gossip Girl. He's
Speaker 1: been in a lot of Spike Lee movies.
Speaker 3: So booked. David Patrick Kelly's also the one in The
Speaker 3: Warriors who is like Warriors come out to play a favorite?
Speaker 3: Saw that movie? Oh? I never seen that?
Speaker 1: But can we keep that in because I like you
Speaker 1: doing the imitation. Sure, okay, Casey stop coming for me.
Speaker 1: I'm the imitator on this podcast, but I've never seen
Speaker 1: that movie. So we cut to Larissa telling Live about
Speaker 1: her abduction. She when she was a child, she was like,
Speaker 1: I was playing hide and go seek with my friends.
Speaker 1: I hid behind a car. This guy grabbed me, drugged like,
Speaker 1: pushed me in his car, drugged me. And then she
Speaker 1: said Underwood drugged her every day, made her do these
Speaker 1: movies and lives like where were your foster parents? And
Speaker 1: then Finn has the scoop back at the station. Edward
Speaker 1: and Roberta Parker had seven other foster kids at their
Speaker 1: home and so they never reported Larissa missing. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's like we always say, you just don't need that
Speaker 1: many foster kids.
Speaker 3: You just don't need If.
Speaker 1: You're not going to report one of them missing when
Speaker 1: they go missing, just don't. She was ten years old.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like she ran off with a boyfriend to
Speaker 1: start a new life. You know, she's a little child.
Speaker 1: So we're cutting back and forth between lives convo with Larissa.
Speaker 1: So Larissa says, eventually Daniel saved her. He was a
Speaker 1: kid who was in captivity with her, was a little
Speaker 1: bit older and was forced to make movies with her.
Speaker 1: And then this one time Daniel distracted him. She jumped
Speaker 1: out of the window and ran and she doesn't know
Speaker 1: what happened to Daniel, So back to Finn and Stabler.
Speaker 1: Finn says no one could ever find Daniel. Larissa could
Speaker 1: only describe his smile. Six months after her escape, she
Speaker 1: ended up seeing a man in the park with a
Speaker 1: cat belt buckle, a distinctive belt buckle, and she started screaming.
Speaker 3: The cops came.
Speaker 1: It was Underwood, and they arrested him, and he was
Speaker 1: charged with kidnapping Larissa in nineteen ninety five, plus rape
Speaker 1: and creating and distributing child sex abuse images. But Larissa
Speaker 1: said that he was the one that committed all these
Speaker 1: crimes against her, but she never saw his face, and
Speaker 1: the lack of physical evidence led the jury to acquit him.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you guys didn't find any videos, you
Speaker 1: didn't find any pictures. This guy like just had everything
Speaker 1: hidden anyway, Stabler points out that he can't be charged
Speaker 1: again because of Double Jeopardy. Live asks Larissa if there
Speaker 1: were other girls, and she said, well, Daniel told me
Speaker 1: there were others, but they were targeted for termination by Coventry,
Speaker 1: So she's heard of this whole Coventry scam as well.
Speaker 1: After he was acquitted, Underwood became a lawyer fighting for
Speaker 1: the unjustly accused. He calls himself a civil rights attorney.
Speaker 1: Stabler's like, sure, Jan, but that pillowcase came from his
Speaker 1: house and the photos were in there, so they're his photos.
Speaker 1: And Munch comes in with some evidence that Underwood's DNA
Speaker 1: is all over these old photos. So now we're in
Speaker 1: the cement bars interrogation room where they tell Underwood that
Speaker 1: his DNA is like all over these pictures and he goes,
Speaker 1: my DNA and Stabler goes, correction, your dried semen, and
Speaker 1: Finn goes, you really should be more careful where you
Speaker 1: plant your seed. And this sky is gross. He's old,
Speaker 1: he's got a fucking oxygen tube under his nose, a
Speaker 1: bloody wound on his head, and he's like, I've never
Speaker 1: seen that photo before. And Stabler's like, we know you're old,
Speaker 1: but now you're blind. And he goes, it's not mine
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, then, how did your jiz.
Speaker 3: Get on it?
Speaker 1: And he goes, well, I was at Eldon's house. We
Speaker 1: were having drinks. This is literally this guy telling the
Speaker 1: story is like me telling the ra that busted me
Speaker 1: for having an ashtray full of cigarettes in college that
Speaker 1: I pick up the cigarette butts outside and bring them
Speaker 1: in and put them in the ash tray.
Speaker 3: Like just the most bizarre, like wild story.
Speaker 1: But you almost can't argue with it because I was
Speaker 1: saying it with such conviction because I lived in a
Speaker 1: non smoking dorm where I smoked a lot.
Speaker 3: So it's like, why says to think of you as
Speaker 3: a smoker? I know, isn't it?
Speaker 1: But like my friends from college will like always imitate
Speaker 1: me smoking in college.
Speaker 2: I guess I can see it. Yeah, I guess I
Speaker 2: can't see it, but I also can't see you. Like
Speaker 2: leaving a party to go smoke.
Speaker 1: I know, but I you know, I would mostly leave
Speaker 1: when other people were going. I'd be like, do we
Speaker 1: all go want to go smoke? Like it was like
Speaker 1: a fun social thing. So many people smoked. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: every don't do it everyone, Easy way to quit smoking.
Speaker 3: I'm always plugging that book. It's the best. It's a
Speaker 3: great book. I actually had. I felt really bad.
Speaker 2: Someone was talking to me and I ended up saying
Speaker 2: something about cigarettes, and they're like, why did you say that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I could tell you smoked, and he's like,
Speaker 2: you can smell the cigarettes on me, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I can. I'm sorry I forgot that was good, but
Speaker 2: I do feel yeah, you just can.
Speaker 3: And it hurts my throat so much. I can't.
Speaker 2: I am not even tempted, even on full drugs and booze.
Speaker 2: Like I obviously I had my high school Newport phase.
Speaker 2: I obviously had my Marlboro light like clubbing things. I
Speaker 2: had my I do comedy camel light parliament, but I
Speaker 2: was never that.
Speaker 3: I just parliaments for mine.
Speaker 2: I just it's like sick to me. It's like I
Speaker 2: try to get addicted and put it not a.
Speaker 1: Breath and if I'm if I'm wasted, I'll be like,
Speaker 1: let me have a dress and I'll take one drag
Speaker 1: and be like why why did I think this was
Speaker 1: going to be good?
Speaker 3: Again? Like I hate it, Like but I loved it
Speaker 3: a lot of time.
Speaker 2: I know it's hard to imagine, but I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: my throat hurts now too, and I just keep it, yeah,
Speaker 2: plugging along.
Speaker 3: We all just keep moving.
Speaker 1: So this guy is truly weaving the most bizarre story.
Speaker 1: He says he's hanging out with this guy who attacked him.
Speaker 1: Is there any proof that you guys knew each other.
Speaker 1: Prior to the attack, he says, they were having a
Speaker 1: drink and then Elden got a phone call and Underwood
Speaker 1: got hit with a sudden urge to jerk off, and
Speaker 1: Stabler goes, so, you're just sitting there in another guy's
Speaker 1: house and suddenly you decide that it's time to peel
Speaker 1: the banana, which is not a phrase for jerking off.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I do not think that is a phrase
Speaker 1: for jerking off. I think that's actually kind of horrific
Speaker 1: if you have a penis to think about calling it that.
Speaker 1: And Underwood says, well, I went into the bathroom and
Speaker 1: there magazines and maybe that photo was in there, and
Speaker 1: my stuff landed on it.
Speaker 3: And it's like, what the fuck is this story?
Speaker 1: Sabler and Finn are obviously not buying this bullshit.
Speaker 3: Not to mention, there's kind of like an age thing.
Speaker 1: The photo is like an old photo of Brandy from
Speaker 1: when she was ten, and I bet you that guy
Speaker 1: Elden was like also ten like when that picture was taken,
Speaker 1: So where did he get that picture? You know? Like
Speaker 1: it's just if you were to present that to a jury,
Speaker 1: I feel like they would understand that it was this
Speaker 1: s guy's fucking picture and that this is a full lie.
Speaker 3: Sable and Finn.
Speaker 2: Also so many things that you're kind of like asking
Speaker 2: and hinting at.
Speaker 3: Do you have to do with the crime? Oh?
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, now, Like there are just certain things that
Speaker 1: you're saying where I'm like, yeah, okay, good because I
Speaker 1: don't even know these crimes, and I'm I'm you know,
Speaker 1: so Stable and Finn are not buying this guy's bullshit,
Speaker 1: and he goes, prove me wrong. You got twenty four
Speaker 1: hours from the moment of my rest to arraign me.
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh yeah, we forgot the pervert as
Speaker 1: a lawyer now, and Finn goes from kitty diddler to
Speaker 1: hump hustler.
Speaker 3: That's not much of an improvement.
Speaker 1: And I don't like either of those words, but I
Speaker 1: do like Finn trying to sock it to this guy.
Speaker 1: Underwood's like, well, you two can keep talking about my jizz,
Speaker 1: or you can go find that probable cause to hold me,
Speaker 1: because you've got twenty two hours and thirty eight minutes
Speaker 1: before I walk a freeman. And this guy is nasty,
Speaker 1: like there's something worse than these criminals that kind of
Speaker 1: like know the law a little bit and use it
Speaker 1: to like get around their crimes. So then the most
Speaker 1: forgettable da in s FE history, Jillian Hardwick opens the
Speaker 1: door to ask the detectives for a word. I don't
Speaker 1: know if we've ever talked about this before. Her name
Speaker 1: is Melissa Sage Miller. She appears to have quit acting
Speaker 1: a decade ago. Her last credit is from twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: but she did come out as one of Harvey Weinstein's accusers. Wow,
Speaker 1: she said that Harvey Weinstein, you know, groped her, tried
Speaker 1: to kiss her, that whole thing. So she if you
Speaker 1: google her, there are a lot of articles of her
Speaker 1: explaining her experience with that.
Speaker 3: So I don't know what she's doing now.
Speaker 1: She's married to another actor and seems on Instagram they've
Speaker 1: got a happy life, but no more acting for her.
Speaker 1: So she tells them to cut the old pervert loose
Speaker 1: and that they don't have enough to hold him on.
Speaker 1: And he's a lawyer and he knows how to spin this,
Speaker 1: and Finn and Stabler just cannot believe that the Jiz
Speaker 1: photo is not enough, and she's like, she's like. Possession
Speaker 1: is defined as dominion and control. She says a fingerprint
Speaker 1: would prove it was in his hand. Finding it in
Speaker 1: his house would show it was under his control. Anything
Speaker 1: less than that is circumstantial. So Stabler goes, well, let's
Speaker 1: get Elden to testify that he found the pictures in
Speaker 1: the guy's home. And it's like, uh oh, Elden was
Speaker 1: beaten to death last night after bragging about raping Brandy
Speaker 1: and these two young girls. And it's like woof rip buzz.
Speaker 1: So they have to let Underwood go and everybody's pissed
Speaker 1: about it. So as he's walking out, he's trying to
Speaker 1: pull the old I told you so shit on Elliot,
Speaker 1: who threatens to strangle him with his own oxygen line
Speaker 1: and tells him he hopes he dies a slow, painful death.
Speaker 1: And as he goes to get into a cab, of
Speaker 1: course classic SVU coincidences, Larissa is getting out of the
Speaker 1: cab that he's hailing and he's like, oh wow, Brandy,
Speaker 1: how have you been. You're still a very beautiful girl,
Speaker 1: Like he's really sing.
Speaker 2: But you know, they do a lot of meetings by
Speaker 2: the elevators or entering and exiting the confession rooms.
Speaker 3: This is a nice spin, you know.
Speaker 1: A little spin, Yeah, with the cab yep, yep, yep,
Speaker 1: and she feels sick, like she's traumatized, so visually like
Speaker 1: her trying I.
Speaker 3: Can't help the media finger what the fuck?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Benson and stabl are like run up to
Speaker 1: him to get her away from, like shoe him away,
Speaker 1: and she vomits all over.
Speaker 3: Stabler and that's the end of act two. Top of
Speaker 3: act three.
Speaker 1: She's like, sorry for barfing on you, and he's like,
Speaker 1: I needed to get my suit cleaned anyway, And she
Speaker 1: says she hadn't seen underwear. It would since the trial
Speaker 1: sixteen years ago, so you know, just getting out of
Speaker 1: a cab and seeing this man who did to you
Speaker 1: and you haven't seen him in a decade and a half.
Speaker 1: And they tell her that Elden was murdered in jail
Speaker 1: and can't hurt her anymore, and she's like, but what
Speaker 1: about Underwood, Like he's still out there, and they tell her, well,
Speaker 1: we're going to get him to We've got a warrant
Speaker 1: to search his place.
Speaker 3: They ask, but if you could help us.
Speaker 1: Track down Daniel, if we find him, he'd be a
Speaker 1: new accuser because they can't charge him again for Larissa
Speaker 1: without new evidence. I'm always confused by double jeopardy because
Speaker 1: sometimes you can do a new thing if it's new evidence.
Speaker 3: But I don't know. I guess that he'd be a
Speaker 3: new accuser.
Speaker 1: So Larissa is like, dude, do you realize I've spent
Speaker 1: my entire life trying to forget about this and now
Speaker 1: you want me to relive it.
Speaker 3: And they're like, not relive.
Speaker 1: Just remember It's like, okay, semantics, h something about Daniel,
Speaker 1: like anything, like where he came from in his life,
Speaker 1: like where he was, like before his abduction, like anything.
Speaker 3: She goes All I can remember is his smile the
Speaker 3: day that I got away. And so now.
Speaker 1: Huang is telling live about how everyone deals with in
Speaker 1: different ways, and she's built cognitive walls between her present
Speaker 1: and her painful past and lives like, okay, how do
Speaker 1: we break through those walls? Huang is like, well, hypnosis
Speaker 1: could work, but it gets pulled apart on the stand
Speaker 1: and she's like, well, we really only needed to find Daniel.
Speaker 3: It doesn't need to go on the stand.
Speaker 1: But then Huang has this realization where he's like, so
Speaker 1: these movies were made in the nineties, but they didn't
Speaker 1: hit the internet until two thousand and five, So at
Speaker 1: the trial in ninety six, the videos weren't even available
Speaker 1: yet he hadn't put them online, meaning it's possible that
Speaker 1: she's never seen these movies that she was forced to make.
Speaker 1: So this motherfucker does this videotapes it somehow gets acquitted
Speaker 1: and still cannot help but put the videos online in
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, ten years after he's acquitted.
Speaker 3: So disgusting. Anyway, Huang's like.
Speaker 1: It's possible that she's never seen these movies that she
Speaker 1: was forced to make, and that maybe showing them could
Speaker 1: trigger some memories and lips like if it doesn't destroy her,
Speaker 1: and Huang's like, it's as bad I like to take it.
Speaker 1: It's a terrible idea. Can you imagine, Like I wouldn't
Speaker 1: even want to watch a video of myself as a
Speaker 1: kid crying over a skinned knee that feels just like ugh,
Speaker 1: I don't want to go back and like relive pain
Speaker 1: from being a kid, and like ugh, just the videos
Speaker 1: are probably horrific in themselves.
Speaker 3: Obviously, yes, Olivia will.
Speaker 1: Stop at nothing for justice, so it is worth it
Speaker 1: to her and she is going to take the risk.
Speaker 1: And the next scene is Larissa watching the movies. She
Speaker 1: says she's willing to do it if it will get Underwood.
Speaker 1: So she points out Daniel in the video, and she
Speaker 1: doesn't remember this day specifically. She remembers a dress that
Speaker 1: she's wearing and that she hated it and stuff, and
Speaker 1: that he made her wear it. But she says that
Speaker 1: Underwood drugged her for that video the same way he
Speaker 1: did before any time they made a movie. And she
Speaker 1: remembers that there were these jars. He fed them like
Speaker 1: peanut butter, like nothing but peanut butter, and then Daniel
Speaker 1: would bury the jars in the backyard with notes to
Speaker 1: his parents in them, which is so sad. He called
Speaker 1: wishing jars and said, like, you know, if we prayed
Speaker 1: and made these wishing jars, maybe we'd be found. So
Speaker 1: she says that the bracelet they freeze frame on him,
Speaker 1: and the bracelet he's wearing in the video, it's like
Speaker 1: this little leather kind of like fisherman's bracelet that I
Speaker 1: feel like I used to have, like.
Speaker 3: One made out of rope.
Speaker 1: She goes, I was wearing that the day it escaped,
Speaker 1: and I buried it in a jar in the backyard
Speaker 1: of my Foster home. And she said I buried it,
Speaker 1: and I made a wish that Daniel would find me someday.
Speaker 3: So cut to a.
Speaker 1: Bunch of texts and Finn digging up a backyard while
Speaker 1: Munch complains about the cold, and they find something. Boom,
Speaker 1: it's a jar with the bracelet in it. So now
Speaker 1: at the lab, Adrian Sung is back and he's telling
Speaker 1: us how he found some partial DNA from the degraded
Speaker 1: bracelet and he's matched it to a kid named Daniel Brooks,
Speaker 1: missing since nineteen ninety five when he.
Speaker 3: Was twelve years old.
Speaker 1: Lucky that they had DNA on Daniel Brooks, because I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say ninety five. We were collecting DNA from every
Speaker 1: missing kid, which they probably got off like a toothbrush
Speaker 1: or a hair brush anyway. So they're like, well, if
Speaker 1: he didn't escape Underwood, Underwood probably killed him. But turns
Speaker 1: out he is alive, That DNA has popped for prostitution
Speaker 1: and shoplifting in the two thousands, and they say, now
Speaker 1: he owns an abandoned factory in Lower Manhattan. Curious, cut
Speaker 1: to the factory on thirteenth Street. Excuse me, a very
Speaker 1: expensive street to have an abandoned factory on. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine a single cross street where thirteenth Street is not nice,
Speaker 1: like you know, Elliott wants to know too. He's like,
Speaker 1: she's like, sure, this place is a dump, but like,
Speaker 1: how does a street can afford like a huge abandoned factory,
Speaker 1: Like you still have to pay for it. So then
Speaker 1: they notice a big covertry logo spray painted on one
Speaker 1: of the walls. Uh oh, looks like Daniel never left
Speaker 1: the business.
Speaker 3: So we see Daniel. We don't always.
Speaker 1: We don't always get this point of view in the
Speaker 1: show where like now we see Daniel watching the detectives
Speaker 1: on security cameras and he's like, let's go, and he
Speaker 1: grabs a little boy and heads upstairs and leaves this
Speaker 1: little girl like sitting on the bed. Like normally we
Speaker 1: get to the detectives finding the person, but this is
Speaker 1: like we're seeing this guy watch himself almost get caught
Speaker 1: and we've not met him yet really, So in Benson
Speaker 1: and Stabler get to the room, the little girl tells
Speaker 1: them Daniel took Michael away, so Stabler's in hot pursuit.
Speaker 1: They've gone, they've started heading upstairs. Daniel is telling this
Speaker 1: terrified little boy who asks it like is it Coventry
Speaker 1: And he's like yes, and they're gonna kill you if
Speaker 1: you don't do everything I say. So Stabler catches up
Speaker 1: to them, and Daniel now has Michael positioned over a
Speaker 1: railing that if he falls would send him multiple stories
Speaker 1: to his death or severe injury.
Speaker 3: Michael Jackson style.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's like holding him blanket style from Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: exactly and threatening to push him off if Stabler doesn't
Speaker 1: back off.
Speaker 3: Michael.
Speaker 1: The little boy is very scared. He's like oh, And
Speaker 1: then Stabler says, Daniel, I'm sorry. Nobody was there to
Speaker 1: save you, but now you have a choice. He's like,
Speaker 1: I've never had a choice. And Stabler's like, that boy's innocent,
Speaker 1: just like you were. You can take care of him,
Speaker 1: you can save him. And so Stabler finally gets through
Speaker 1: to him. Daniel puts the kid down. So now we're
Speaker 1: in interrogation and Daniel is sitting in very low light
Speaker 1: across from Olivia Benson and her beautiful hair, and he's like,
Speaker 1: what do you want from me? And she's like, well, sir,
Speaker 1: we have a lot of things we're gonna need to
Speaker 1: know from you. You did have two children in an
Speaker 1: abandoned warehouse with a fake pedophile ring symbol on it.
Speaker 1: So she goes, well, I want justice for the girl
Speaker 1: who played Brandy and he's playing dumb. He's like, I
Speaker 1: don't know what you're talking about. I don't know who
Speaker 1: Underwood is. YadA, YadA, YadA. They show him a picture
Speaker 1: of himself at age twelve, and he's like, I'm not
Speaker 1: that kid anymore. And they're explaining to him that he's
Speaker 1: obviously blocked out his trauma and he's like, I'm nothing
Speaker 1: now and you know, very very missy from why am
Speaker 1: I blanking damaged? Damaged? Yeah, Like you can't kill me.
Speaker 1: I'm already dead. They tell him he's a victim and
Speaker 1: he says I was a victim, but I'm not anymore.
Speaker 3: So done done. End of Act three.
Speaker 1: Now, Benson and Stabler are watching through the fish bowl
Speaker 1: glass and lives like, look, he adapted to survive after
Speaker 1: his abduction, and Stabler's like, I don't know. He made
Speaker 1: his own cho after he got away, and Huang's like, well,
Speaker 1: he's essentially been brainwashed. His whole worldview was altered after
Speaker 1: Underwood took him, and we've seen this before. Wang says
Speaker 1: his evolution from victim to victimizer could be his way
Speaker 1: of taking control of his fucked up life.
Speaker 3: And we see the little girl from the.
Speaker 1: Warehouse, Heather and Michael being walked into the precinct with
Speaker 1: some you know, loose adults, and Live says they're going
Speaker 1: to need a lot of help, and Huang's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: with a lot of therapy, they have a chance. And
Speaker 1: so they're worried that without Daniel they can't get Underwood,
Speaker 1: but Finn arrives with some good news. During a search
Speaker 1: of Underwood's house, they found a panel in a wall
Speaker 1: leading to a whole bunch of stuff that they think
Speaker 1: will incriminate him. But they aren't videos, they're books. One
Speaker 1: is called The Beauty of a Child's Love by O
Speaker 1: You which Orville Underwood. Another is called Chasing Brandy colon
Speaker 1: How I Found Brandy and how you Can too.
Speaker 2: Ooh after the trial, I always hate when the books
Speaker 2: go to trial. You know, it's never going to be
Speaker 2: a good case. Yes, when you're going for the books,
Speaker 2: you got no evidence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really fucked so yeah, because what was the
Speaker 1: other one where there was like a brochure of like
Speaker 1: how we covered this one?
Speaker 3: But It's like there's a brochure of exactly how.
Speaker 1: To get this, and they keep emailing it to the guy,
Speaker 1: even though he keeps unsubscribing, unsubscribing.
Speaker 3: Oh, I remember that one.
Speaker 2: But also in the the titty cut Off and he
Speaker 2: becomes famous with uh Katie Perry's best friend. Yes, Shannon
Speaker 2: Woodward that one, I feel like his comic books. But
Speaker 2: which one kept sending the pedophile stuff, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I can't remember. We covered it.
Speaker 1: We covered it because he's like working at an ad
Speaker 1: agency and we were like, how did he get this?
Speaker 1: Like you know, But after the trial, they say Underwood
Speaker 1: put these videos online, but since he couldn't risk making
Speaker 1: any more movies, he started writing quote unquote kitty porn novels.
Speaker 3: That's what they're calling it. Another one of.
Speaker 1: These books, Live says, is how to for pedophiles, basically
Speaker 1: just like writing instruction manuals. And Finn says, this is
Speaker 1: the one moment where I disagree with the First Amendment.
Speaker 1: This stuff should be banned, and Stabler says it's perverts
Speaker 1: hiding behind free speech and calling it literature. Without pictures,
Speaker 1: there's nothing they can get this guy on. So Olivia
Speaker 1: reads from the How to Get a Brandy book, and
Speaker 1: it's basically instructions that Elden followed exactly to attack Larissa.
Speaker 1: She thinks Hardwick can use this to get Underwood. So
Speaker 1: we cut to court where Underwood is arguing that, you know,
Speaker 1: he's obviously representing himself, he's a civil rights attorney. He's like,
Speaker 1: this is all fiction. There's nary a picture or a drawing,
Speaker 1: and it's all covered in the First Amendment. Hardwick argues
Speaker 1: that this is a how to manual and they found
Speaker 1: a copy of it downloaded at Elden's home, and unfortunately
Speaker 1: he can't testify on account of being murdered. And it's
Speaker 1: like it shows how you should dress her, how you
Speaker 1: should drug her. And he's arguing, nothing in the book
Speaker 1: tells this man to do anything specifically.
Speaker 3: He's like, is his name written in the book?
Speaker 1: And also the girl name is Brandy and this girl's
Speaker 1: name is Larissa, so your theory falls apart. It's like,
Speaker 1: what a psycho. It's like, you know, you renamed her,
Speaker 1: like you're disgusting. Hardwick thinks a jury will make the connection.
Speaker 1: Underwood argues that conspiracy has to involve two people agreeing
Speaker 1: to commit a crime unless she's a mind reader.
Speaker 3: She's talking out of her ass.
Speaker 1: That's what he says in court, and the judge doesn't
Speaker 1: like that, and Hardwick goes, whatever, I can hate handle
Speaker 1: anything this toad throws at me. And then the judge
Speaker 1: tells them both to shut up. He's like, I want
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes to examine the facts, and Larissa is in
Speaker 1: the courtroom when they come back from the recess. The
Speaker 1: judge unfortunately says that even though this kind of case
Speaker 1: makes him want to retire and he finds this writing
Speaker 1: to be disgusting, he has to dismiss the case because
Speaker 1: the argument for conspiracy does not hold up. And the
Speaker 1: pedophile looks very smug. He says goodbye, ladies, as always,
Speaker 1: to Larissa and to Hardwick as he walks out. Larissa
Speaker 1: begs Hardwick to figure this out. We have to get
Speaker 1: Daniel to testify. Hardwick's like, he won't. He's not the
Speaker 1: same person you knew, and she goes, let me talk
Speaker 1: to him. I can get through to him. So now
Speaker 1: at Riker's, Larissa and Hardwick are waiting for Daniel. As
Speaker 1: he's led into the room, she says, Hi, Hi, Daniel.
Speaker 1: He doesn't respond. She asks him what happened, like, how
Speaker 1: could you grow up to be like them? You were
Speaker 1: my savior and he's like, you never came back for me.
Speaker 1: She's like, I tried, and he's like, not hard enough.
Speaker 1: I find it hard to believe that the cops wouldn't
Speaker 1: have like gone looking for a guy named Daniel after
Speaker 1: she got out of after she went to trial. But
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's a little hole that maybe whatever.
Speaker 1: So she goes, so you want to hurt more children,
Speaker 1: like for payback, and he goes, no, I love all
Speaker 1: my kids. She goes, you're forcing them to make movies,
Speaker 1: and he argues it's better than the lives they had
Speaker 1: their throwaways. And we've seen that many many times with
Speaker 1: like girls that were victims that become the groomers for
Speaker 1: like male pedophiles or people that are like I'm helping them.
Speaker 3: It was worse off where they came from.
Speaker 1: Even like when we talked to like Laura Gomez's character
Speaker 1: is like gathering all these girls and is like, whatever,
Speaker 1: they're throwaways.
Speaker 3: No one cares about them.
Speaker 1: In my movies, he says, they get to feel my
Speaker 1: love and the love of our family, and she says,
Speaker 1: you had a family and Underwood stole you from them,
Speaker 1: and he did it to me too, and she's like, please,
Speaker 1: we need your help. We have to put them away.
Speaker 1: And he's like, what will punishing him even change? And
Speaker 1: Daniel says we're broken. Nothing can fix us. And Larissa's like,
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. And he's like, it's been fifteen years.
Speaker 1: Are you fixed yet? And then he reaches out to
Speaker 1: touch her arm and he gets up and he whispers
Speaker 1: something in her ear, and then he walks out of
Speaker 1: the room. So now Benson and Stabler are walking with Hardwick,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's like, Stabler's putting up a cognitive emotional wall too.
Speaker 1: He's like, okay, it's over. Let's move on. What other
Speaker 1: choice do we have? And Hardwick is bummed. She's like,
Speaker 1: you guys are better at this than I am, Like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe. We just have to like drop this now.
Speaker 1: It's like so horrific, and now we just to move
Speaker 1: on to the next thing. And they're like, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: lucky for us, there's always a new victim. And the
Speaker 1: phone rings and Stabler's like, what huh, We'll be right there.
Speaker 1: So just as Hardwick is trying to leave for the evening. No,
Speaker 1: they just got a nine one one call from Underwood
Speaker 1: and he said a girl named Brandy barged into his
Speaker 1: house with a gun, and then the line went dead.
Speaker 1: I love how nine one one calls SVU and it's like,
Speaker 1: do you guys want to get involved?
Speaker 2: But also that he would say a girl named Brandy,
Speaker 2: It's like, we all know who Brandy is. Yeah, you're
Speaker 2: using so many extra words for this emergency that you're in.
Speaker 3: Yes, so they skit Snicket. He does. He has like classic,
Speaker 3: like mean, old like man energy.
Speaker 2: I feel like more pervert than me. And even is
Speaker 2: Lemony Snicket a pervert? No, physically Lemony Snicket.
Speaker 3: Maybe Lemony Snicket is a pervert.
Speaker 1: I don't know who knows way in in the commons.
Speaker 1: So they rush to Underwood's house and the bedroom is
Speaker 1: locked with Underwood in it, and you can hear him saying,
Speaker 1: but I loved you, Brandy, I never meant to hurt you,
Speaker 1: and she's like shut the fuck up, like and we
Speaker 1: hear pop pop, two gunshots. They bust into the room
Speaker 1: and he has a bullet through his chest and one
Speaker 1: through his forehead, and hell, yes, this fucker is dead,
Speaker 1: like deader than a door nail, and I love it.
Speaker 1: Larissa drops the gun and she's like, I had to,
Speaker 1: I had to, And then we hear a kid crying.
Speaker 1: Live goes into the bathroom and finds a little blonde
Speaker 1: girl with pigtails crouched in the bathtub, looking terrified. Larissa
Speaker 1: says that at Rikers Daniel told me that Underwood was
Speaker 1: still doing it, so that's what like set her off, like,
Speaker 1: and he you know, that's what he whispered to her.
Speaker 1: So Hardwick shows up and sees the dead Peto and
Speaker 1: the girl and it's this looks like a mess. So
Speaker 1: they are somehow allowing Larissa to just walk the little
Speaker 1: girl on a stretcher to the ambulance. And then Stabler
Speaker 1: asks Hardwick, like, how are we going to handle this?
Speaker 1: And she says, well, Larissa used deadly forced to stop
Speaker 1: Underwood from raping Christina, the little girl, so that's defense
Speaker 1: of a third person. She walks Stablers like works for me, babe.
Speaker 1: They tell Lorissa she saved Christina. It's over and Larissa goes,
Speaker 1: maybe and that's dick wolf baby.
Speaker 3: The maybe at the end is like kind.
Speaker 1: Of sad like because it's like, yeah, it's maybe over
Speaker 1: in this moment, but his videos are up. People have
Speaker 1: disseminated these books and these how to manuals like this,
Speaker 1: like fight against Pedophiles is kind of like never over.
Speaker 3: It feels like no and it never will be no.
Speaker 2: Also, she probably needs more therapy too, Yeah, so fucked.
Speaker 2: And also we never saw the boyfriend again? Did he
Speaker 2: ditch her in this trying time?
Speaker 3: I know where Patrick?
Speaker 2: He seemed to really care about her, Like why wasn't
Speaker 2: he at court? Like why wasn't he help?
Speaker 3: I know he wasn't at court. Maybe he's maybe he's
Speaker 3: in the house.
Speaker 1: They don't want to pay that guy day rate. He
Speaker 1: only had a scalp laceration and I don't think he
Speaker 1: was still in the hospital. And the time it takes
Speaker 1: for her to get to court.
Speaker 3: I don't know. But but that's that and a wild episode.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 1: It is wild because the name of the episode. They
Speaker 1: are sort of like clever even with the one named episodes,
Speaker 1: because like it's called Possessed, which you think of as
Speaker 1: like the Exorcist or some shit, but like it's about
Speaker 1: like these guys like possess this girl, like they think
Speaker 1: they own her because they've fallen in love with her
Speaker 1: on these videos and like she can't break free from
Speaker 1: all these people thinking that she's theirs. And that's like
Speaker 1: the Megan Baky episode two.
Speaker 2: Well, and then also reminds me of Avatar now that
Speaker 2: we're talking about it, the pigtail girl there, it's like
Speaker 2: she just wanted her forever. And my thing is, even
Speaker 2: if this wasn't pedophiles normal like of aged people, this
Speaker 2: is Bonker's behavior. You can't do that, Like, you can't
Speaker 2: just become obsessed with you know what I mean. It's
Speaker 2: like the pedophile shit is sick. But even if it
Speaker 2: wasn't pedophile, these are looney to These are yeah, wild wild,
Speaker 2: it's wild, yes, obsession, you can't just be I'm obsessed
Speaker 2: with a person.
Speaker 3: I hate them so much.
Speaker 2: I am glad Buzz died in jail, and I'm glad
Speaker 2: this guy got shot in the head. I mean, at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, they're both dead, but there's
Speaker 2: pedophiles alive everywhere, closer than you think.
Speaker 3: But right these.
Speaker 1: Two we got to see at least be dead, and
Speaker 1: that was satisfying. I liked seeing Lemony Snicket get the
Speaker 1: old pop through the forehead.
Speaker 3: And I must felt so good for her.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the therapy she needed, just fucking popping in
Speaker 2: the mass.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh I'm so hungry.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited just to see what I'm gonna eat,
Speaker 2: Like who knows, but.
Speaker 3: It was your oyster. But first the crimes. First the crime.
Speaker 2: So we've covered the Coventry before with Colleen stant and
Speaker 2: another crime, and it's you know, we do it all
Speaker 2: the time or do we always say we'll talk about
Speaker 2: it later and then we never talk about it.
Speaker 1: I don't know the Coventry in Colleen stand they were
Speaker 1: called the company, right, isn't that what he called them?
Speaker 3: The company?
Speaker 1: And then I forgot what they were called in the
Speaker 1: abducted in plain Sight where the guy was having sex
Speaker 1: with the mom and dad just so he could get
Speaker 1: to the girl. But he kept telling her that there
Speaker 1: was like this alien this thing was like alien involved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, these guys are they should get into
Speaker 2: fiction writing instead of molestation. How about that? Like they
Speaker 2: really have some imaginations. Okay, So well I didn't cover it. Okay,
Speaker 2: so this is I'm not covering these pedophile lies. So
Speaker 2: this is Alex Cabarga case. But also Tara Burke. That
Speaker 2: might be a name that is familiar to you. That
Speaker 2: was like a big kidnapping, and we'll get into it.
Speaker 2: It's a twisted tail. So background on Alex. When he
Speaker 2: was five years old, his parents moved him from New
Speaker 2: Jersey into an experimental community named Project two in a
Speaker 2: vacant warehouse in San Francisco. So really great in terms
Speaker 2: of parenting decisions. And after several weeks of the family's arrival,
Speaker 2: a man named Lewis tree Frog Johnson joined the group.
Speaker 3: Okay, so listen.
Speaker 2: He is a piece of shit, but you know his
Speaker 2: name is. I'll call him tree Frog.
Speaker 3: We'll see.
Speaker 2: But I like I like frogs. They are my friend's
Speaker 2: biggest fear. Yes, I try to respect her. I didn't
Speaker 2: last time I was at the zoo, I didn't go
Speaker 2: into the frog area or in. I was like, you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm gonna stick with her.
Speaker 3: That's really nice.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for you to hear her and
Speaker 1: hold her, hold space for her phobia.
Speaker 3: What do you think it's even called fear of frogs?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: I bet it's something great. Hold on. It's got a
Speaker 3: little name, fear of frogs. Rana daphobia, Rana da phobia,
Speaker 3: Rana daphobia, okay, cool, all right.
Speaker 2: So he was a third three year old transient tree Frog,
Speaker 2: and he shared the group's goals of throwing off old taboos.
Speaker 3: He believed in complete freedom for children.
Speaker 2: Oh look at that, and quickly befriended the five year
Speaker 2: old Alex and his two older brothers, and they all
Speaker 2: started hanging out a lot, and the parents, the Camargo parents,
Speaker 2: didn't love tree Frog, but allowed him full access to
Speaker 2: their children and adopted the open mindedness that this new
Speaker 2: lifestyle called for. So then two years later, Alex's parents
Speaker 2: divorced and she took custody of the boys and moved
Speaker 2: to a trailer near the warehouse. And then Treefrog lived
Speaker 2: in an old school bus on the same property and
Speaker 2: continued his relationship with the boys. He basically started courting Alex,
Speaker 2: you know, like a like like he was a sexual
Speaker 2: partner like. It was pretty sick, and the older siblings
Speaker 2: left and lost contact with him, but he kept hanging
Speaker 2: out with Alex, and the mom says expected he was
Speaker 2: having sex with her son, but she decided not to
Speaker 2: do anything about it, and then when he was nine
Speaker 2: years old, she relinquished all parental control and let tree
Speaker 2: Frog adopt and take full custody of her son.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And later the mom is quoted saying she was just
Speaker 2: tired of being a parent.
Speaker 3: So that's that.
Speaker 2: So then he was living in a van with Lewis
Speaker 2: Treefrog Johnson after getting custody, and obviously a lot of
Speaker 2: physical and sexual abuse became Alex's regular life, and he
Speaker 2: was denied food if he did not partake in sex.
Speaker 2: So and then for money, Johnson would sell the videos
Speaker 2: of him raping Alex. And then and he had like,
Speaker 2: it's not radical. I don't like the way I was
Speaker 2: reading about it. I guess it's like we have to
Speaker 2: stop their their philosophy in the cult.
Speaker 3: It's like fucking predators whatever.
Speaker 2: But it's at his radical dogma of free love between
Speaker 2: adults and children, a pedophile. And so he then decided
Speaker 2: that he wants to kidnap a young girl and he
Speaker 2: would raise her according to his radical tenants, and then
Speaker 2: he would like have his own child that he could
Speaker 2: raise under his beliefs. So for nearly ten years, Alex
Speaker 2: was Johnson's sex slave in this van. He was denied
Speaker 2: access to outside information or social connections.
Speaker 3: He did not go to.
Speaker 2: School and was repeatedly told that that their way of
Speaker 2: life was morally superior, and he was taught to fear
Speaker 2: the outside world and distrust everyone except for tree Frog,
Speaker 2: so that even if he was presented with opportunity to escape,
Speaker 2: Cabargo was too afraid to attempt that. He didn't have
Speaker 2: a sense of self before being indoctrinated, so he had
Speaker 2: no point of reference to the outside world from which
Speaker 2: to understand what was happening to him. And that's because
Speaker 2: he was five, right, Yeah, So this is from an
Speaker 2: academic journal from Missoo Law. I've found a bunch of
Speaker 2: people using this case for all of their law schools
Speaker 2: because it is he eventually is going to commit crime.
Speaker 2: But like how much of it was I'll talk about
Speaker 2: it later, but like, yeah, he because they were comparing
Speaker 2: him in this story a lot to like prisoners of war,
Speaker 2: people that are brainwashed but something has a tether to
Speaker 2: the old world in some way. But when you're this
Speaker 2: young and your mom fucking suck too, it's like he
Speaker 2: just had no concept of what was outside of.
Speaker 3: His life, like this is life for him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when he turned seventeen, Johnson decided, like I'm
Speaker 2: kidnapping a girl and Alex Yeah, seventeen, he helped tree Frog
Speaker 2: kidnap a young girl.
Speaker 3: So Tara Burke.
Speaker 2: She was kidnapped February sixth, nineteen eighty two, a few
Speaker 2: months shy of her third birthday.
Speaker 3: Oh, I know, and that's so much younger than I
Speaker 3: thought it was going to be. Should I have done
Speaker 3: a warning? It's bad? Oh, it's okay.
Speaker 2: So she was taken from her well, because he wants
Speaker 2: someone with no understanding of the world right now. So
Speaker 2: she was taken from her parents' car in a shopping
Speaker 2: center in Concord, California. And her parents drove into Concord
Speaker 2: from Pittsburgh, California to exchange a part at an auto
Speaker 2: supply store. It was a quick errand so I left
Speaker 2: her in the car with her nine year old brother
Speaker 2: and dashed inside. I mean, I don't want to be judgmental,
Speaker 2: but it's like, couldn't one parent have gone in?
Speaker 1: I know, two of you need to do the auto part. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's weird, or you would take one of the kids.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's just like their math is weird to me. But
Speaker 2: that's rude. I feel rude, But that is what I thought, moments,
Speaker 2: but also like, how do you plan this or do
Speaker 2: you just sit in a shopping center waiting for this
Speaker 2: moment and you dash? But like basically, moments later, a
Speaker 2: young man knocked on the window said, oh, your mom
Speaker 2: wants you Jeremy. The older brother opened the door, and
Speaker 2: the kidnapper snatched Tara, flung her over his shoulder, and
Speaker 2: raced to a nearby apartment complex, where he jumped into
Speaker 2: a waiting car. And the girl was like still in
Speaker 2: diapers when she was taken. And so that's my thing
Speaker 2: where it's like, how did this happen? Yeah, they were
Speaker 2: just ready to do that. Like I just am having
Speaker 2: a hard time getting it, Like in this one second,
Speaker 2: you do an Errand were they waiting?
Speaker 3: Do they drive around?
Speaker 2: Like I just don't get how the universe collapsed in
Speaker 2: this wild way or are they just always ready? But
Speaker 2: how was the car in the apartment complex?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Did they stalk this family? Like I just have so
Speaker 2: many questions about just the snatching, right, No, that's good,
Speaker 2: those are good questions. And she's so little, so it's
Speaker 2: like it's not like she could test. I mean the brother,
Speaker 2: I guess okay. Anyways, So then thirty four year old
Speaker 2: Dick Gordy was a sergeant in the Concord Police Juvenile
Speaker 2: Bureau and he would take the lead on the case,
Speaker 2: and he carried a photo of her with him during
Speaker 2: the whole investigation. This case obviously shook him to his
Speaker 2: core and his goal in life was like, I need
Speaker 2: to find this fucking girl. Meanwhile, the criminals dyed her
Speaker 2: hair brown and cut it really really short from blonde,
Speaker 2: and then they convinced brainwashed her into thinking she was
Speaker 2: a boy and that was like and then they kept
Speaker 2: her naked so she wouldn't run away, and then they
Speaker 2: withheld food from her as well if she did not
Speaker 2: perform sexual acts. So you know, kind of the same
Speaker 2: thing that happened with Alex. He took pictures movies of
Speaker 2: Alex and Tara together and Tara was not allowed to
Speaker 2: wash and was kept naked. From the way, it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's fucked up. And so they're forced to perform together.
Speaker 2: He's doing me, and they're living and the whole time
Speaker 2: they're in one van, Like I can't even imagine how
Speaker 2: gross it is in there, Like not that all of
Speaker 2: it's horrific, no matter what.
Speaker 3: The van element is just like so fucked.
Speaker 2: So then another boy was kidnapped, unfortunately, but because of him,
Speaker 2: he ended up escaping and he led police to the van.
Speaker 3: So it's really fucked up.
Speaker 2: And he also had bad parents, like he willingly was
Speaker 2: able to go like a lot of they have bad
Speaker 2: parents and criminals know who to take. Okay, So this
Speaker 2: boy was Vietnamese. His name was Mac Lynn. He was
Speaker 2: an eleven year old boy and obviously a hero. So
Speaker 2: what happened was tree Frog offered him two hundred dollars
Speaker 2: to babysit the little girl, and like that's how he
Speaker 2: was lured. And then he became a victim too again
Speaker 2: you know, sexually abused be in with a rubber hose
Speaker 2: like the worst. And the van kept going from like
Speaker 2: industrial part to industrial part and factory under you know,
Speaker 2: like c D parts. But eventually it was parked in
Speaker 2: an industrial district of San Francisco, and finally after his escape,
Speaker 2: it put this very highly publicized nationwide search. This was
Speaker 2: on America's Most Wanted and everything or like Missing Children whatever.
Speaker 3: But that guy, what's his name, you know, oh John Walsh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Mack climbed from the van's roof ventilator and
Speaker 2: asked him man he knew. Well, I found conflicting reports.
Speaker 2: Someone said a man that he knew, and then someone
Speaker 2: said he ran to two women that he knew. So
Speaker 2: I'm not sure who he ran to, but like he
Speaker 2: ran to people that he trusted knew because, like I said,
Speaker 2: his parents were kind of bad too. And he was
Speaker 2: eventually awarded eleven thousand dollars and he would have gotten
Speaker 2: at eighteen with interest. And he was placed into a
Speaker 2: foster family after his escape because like I said, his
Speaker 2: parents weren't.
Speaker 3: Caring in any capacity.
Speaker 2: And I hope he has lived a good life with
Speaker 2: his foster family. It was hard to find his whereabouts,
Speaker 2: which I think is good. So then when the cops
Speaker 2: busted in, Cabargo was in bed with Tara, both naked
Speaker 2: from the waist down, and when they searched the van,
Speaker 2: they found two home movies and hundreds of pictures of
Speaker 2: Tara participating in you know things she was to do.
Speaker 2: So then Gordy got this call from the San Francisco
Speaker 2: authorities that they're like, hey, it might be this missing
Speaker 2: girl from Concord, and he was like he didn't want
Speaker 2: to tell the parents yet, he didn't want to get
Speaker 2: their hopes up. So even though Tara was too young
Speaker 2: to provide details, Mac, since he was eleven, he was
Speaker 2: able to lay out the whole story. So we had
Speaker 2: Mac is a cridible witness. There's also just a lot
Speaker 2: of evidence in the van photos film and then like
Speaker 2: very high piles of trash. But Gordie was taken to
Speaker 2: the girl. They matched the fingerprints and according to the
Speaker 2: San Francisco Gate, he said, I had the picture I
Speaker 2: carried with me and I pulled it out and said
Speaker 2: who is that? And he says that she said that's
Speaker 2: me and I want my long hair back. So we knew,
Speaker 2: you know, they knew it was her. So she was
Speaker 2: reunited with her parents, Stephen and Elizabeth Burke of Concord,
Speaker 2: at the San Francisco Children's Center, and she got to
Speaker 2: spend Christmas with her family. But I mean, she was
Speaker 2: fucked like she had a new extensive vocabulary like vulgar words.
Speaker 2: And a therapist said she was scarred for life, and
Speaker 2: it's like dubbitch. We really didn't need that quote. This
Speaker 2: is a quote from the mom. Tara was a sweet,
Speaker 2: loving trusting little girl, bursting with joy and laughter. What
Speaker 2: we got back in December nineteen eighty two was a
Speaker 2: monster somebody who thought she was a boy, knew all
Speaker 2: the worst forms of sexuality imaginable, all forms of profanity.
Speaker 3: And brainwashed beyond belief.
Speaker 2: Jesus, it's really fucked and the possessed comes out more here.
Speaker 2: But it is like she's so fucking young, like to
Speaker 2: have like this little kid knowing all this fucked up shit, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's And so when she got home, she started therapy
Speaker 2: right away, and it was funded by the Victims of
Speaker 2: Violent Crime program, but the maximount was ten grand and
Speaker 2: it ran out really quick, and their family was poor,
Speaker 2: and she regressed and it was a lot of issues.
Speaker 3: And then new legislation passed.
Speaker 2: And they were given new money, more money, and she
Speaker 2: resumed counseling.
Speaker 3: But yeah, fucked.
Speaker 2: Eventually she enrolled in school under her mother's maiden names,
Speaker 2: so her classmates and like their parents would know who
Speaker 2: she was. But from fifth grade on she went back
Speaker 2: to using her own name, and she did not want
Speaker 2: to hide. And the men were taken into custody right away.
Speaker 2: So Louis Johnson thirty three and Alex Cabarga eighteen. Cabargo's
Speaker 2: defense was that his actions were committed under Johnson's influence.
Speaker 2: And so then this is where everything gets like, you know, sticky,
Speaker 2: or I guess it has been terrible.
Speaker 3: This whole time. Okay, So Tara.
Speaker 1: Took the stand and had an emotionally charged testimony, and
Speaker 1: the judge, Robert Doce, issued his sentence right after the
Speaker 1: two days of testimony in a hushed courtroom.
Speaker 3: So put the little girl on the stand. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't even think about that while I was
Speaker 1: writing and reading that. I just feel like most of
Speaker 1: the time in this show, at least they'll be like, well,
Speaker 1: we can't put the little girl in the stand. She's
Speaker 1: too young, you know, like they don't really put super
Speaker 1: little kids on the stand.
Speaker 3: Damn ugh. Anyway.
Speaker 2: July fourth, nineteen eighty four, it's reported that the nineteen
Speaker 2: year old Caberga was convicted of kidnapping and sexual abuse.
Speaker 2: He got life despite a California Youth Authority evaluation that
Speaker 2: said he is capable of rehabilitation. Robert dose did sentence
Speaker 2: Cabarga to two hundred and eight years for ninety three
Speaker 2: counts involving abduction, and sex crimes. The judge believed he
Speaker 2: would be a danger to other children in the California
Speaker 2: Youth Authority because he had been diagnosed to pedophile, so
Speaker 2: you can't go hang out with kids. And he continues,
Speaker 2: according to the United Press International, that in quotes, I
Speaker 2: can't recall a case that's demonstrated such degrading and sadistic conduct.
Speaker 2: I hope the effect of the sentence is to prevent
Speaker 2: mister Cabarga from ever hurting a child again. And this
Speaker 2: is like a kind of a fuck you. But he
Speaker 2: was eligible for parole at one hundred and four years,
Speaker 2: but then later an appellate corp ruled that it was
Speaker 2: a cruel and unusual punishment since he was a victim
Speaker 2: as well, so they did change his sentence to twenty
Speaker 2: five years. But yeah, the court basically found that he
Speaker 2: had been dominated and abused by tree Frog, who taught
Speaker 2: him that child molesting was normal, and also struck him
Speaker 2: when he disobeyed orders.
Speaker 3: Appellate Justice Jerome A.
Speaker 2: Smith wrote, according to the La Times, a sentence of
Speaker 2: life imprisonment for Cabarga, who the evidence overwhelmingly discloses was
Speaker 2: Johnson's third victim, is constitutionally excessive.
Speaker 3: So the court held.
Speaker 2: Up the charges but changed the sentence, and he was
Speaker 2: paroled in nineteen ninety five. And he lives in the
Speaker 2: Bay Area and you can find his address on the
Speaker 2: sexual Registry.
Speaker 1: And I even know how somebody like him could be
Speaker 1: reintroduced into society when he's been abused since like no schooling,
Speaker 1: like five years old. This is what he thinks, Like
Speaker 1: reality is like, I don't know, how do you like
Speaker 1: deprogram someone who's that deeply brainwashed? He wasn't I guess
Speaker 1: he was only in prison for ten years. Fuck, maybe
Speaker 1: he got mental health services in prison. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Burke at age nine, says she wanted him jailed forever
Speaker 2: and she still fears him. But it's just tough because
Speaker 2: it makes me mad that he's out.
Speaker 3: He did commit but he is a victim, Like I
Speaker 3: don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I found more academic journals. So this one is
Speaker 2: from the University of Alabama's School of Law. So it's
Speaker 2: entitled Are We Responsible for Who We Are? The Challenge
Speaker 2: for Criminal Law Theory and the Defenses of course of
Speaker 2: indoctrination and in quotes Rotten social background, and like, did
Speaker 2: Alex stand a chance to fight against this depraved life
Speaker 2: with lack of anchor problem? Like I mentioned earlier, he
Speaker 2: didn't have an internal normative conflict over what he was doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, how does he know the difference between right
Speaker 3: and wrong? He was ever taught him.
Speaker 2: That from five, Like we are cult that's why not
Speaker 2: everyone should be parents. Okay, it's the classic abused people
Speaker 2: will abuse people. But he didn't know what was wrong
Speaker 2: because he hated it and he knew what it was like.
Speaker 2: But he did not have enough worldly influences and built
Speaker 2: up understanding of right and wrong, especially you know with
Speaker 2: the Culton parents and stuff. But also where do we
Speaker 2: draw the line with our sympathy and sentencing in crimes,
Speaker 2: because it seems like most criminals we cover have been
Speaker 2: abuse and so like for this case we feel for him,
Speaker 2: but so many other cases we really are like, go
Speaker 2: to jail forever. He was a victim, he's both and
Speaker 2: he is labeled a sex vendors who's in on the
Speaker 2: registry at least so Lewis tree Frog Johnson was sentenced
Speaker 2: to five hundred and twenty seven years in the same case,
Speaker 2: and so it was one hundred separate counts of kidnapping, assault,
Speaker 2: and sex charges and no one was trying to get
Speaker 2: him less years, so do not worry. He is still
Speaker 2: incarcerated at Mule Creek State Prison. And the last I
Speaker 2: saw was Tara went to college at San Jose State University,
Speaker 2: and she credits the help of Dick Gordy from the
Speaker 2: Concord Police Department. He adopted eighteen year old Tara, raised
Speaker 2: money to finance her schooling and acted as a second
Speaker 2: father to her, and yeah, really helped her. And I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: I couldn't find her as well, So that's good. I
Speaker 2: found there's a there's a real turr in that area
Speaker 2: with that name.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say she's selling houses and doing Okay,
Speaker 1: oh boy, god, that is fucking brutal.
Speaker 2: It's about That's why when you said that the initial
Speaker 2: guy like didn't he seemed kind of like he didn't
Speaker 2: even understand what was happening, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like, that's why I thought of all of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it leads back to these parents giving up
Speaker 2: their kid to this guy that was molesting them and like.
Speaker 3: That there's no.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that there's kind of no checks and balances for
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. If you're just like a parent
Speaker 1: that gives your kid away no one and they don't
Speaker 1: go to school, there's really like no way to track
Speaker 1: anything happening to them in any way.
Speaker 2: You know, I've talked about this other one before, but
Speaker 2: if this is a case that interested in anyway, the
Speaker 2: girl in the picture on Netflix is like that, like
Speaker 2: really bad, it'll make you really.
Speaker 1: Upset if you want to all ready to get devastated.
Speaker 3: I'm no guessed, so.
Speaker 1: No guests, so nothing to nothing to clear the air
Speaker 1: here except for me and Lisa try to talk it over.
Speaker 3: Yeah post more time.
Speaker 2: Ugh, cults are bad, pedophiles are bad, the laws are bad.
Speaker 3: Everyone's bad. Don't leave your kids in a car.
Speaker 2: I mean this was the eighties though, and you know
Speaker 2: in the sixties seventies eighty is way more well I
Speaker 2: don't know if way moore, but yeah, you would leave
Speaker 2: your kids in the car. I doubt people were even
Speaker 2: leaving a little hole for in the hot weather. Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're seatbelts even around who knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really I was not wearing a seatbelt all the
Speaker 1: time in the eighties.
Speaker 2: I'm still so anti seat I've gotten messages I wear
Speaker 2: my seatbelt relax, but it.
Speaker 1: Really I like crazy, I like have to have one
Speaker 1: or I feel weird in a car.
Speaker 3: But but I my dad's fault.
Speaker 2: He told me in the backseat you don't have to,
Speaker 2: and obviously that's bad advice.
Speaker 1: So all right, give us a second. We're gonna hop
Speaker 1: into our post mortem. So that was a wild one.
Speaker 1: I Terren Manning is very good in it. Uh, and
Speaker 1: so is a baby Sabrina Carpenter with her tiny little
Speaker 1: her tiny little cameo.
Speaker 2: It must be really hard to be good at playing
Speaker 2: these highly emotional damaged characters, because I'm sure it gets exhausting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I bet, I guy, it's exhausting playing like victims of
Speaker 2: rape over and over again.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, Yeah, it's a lot because her character,
Speaker 1: her character in Orange is the new Black, Like it's
Speaker 1: like one. It's a masterclass and a character growing on you,
Speaker 1: you know, because like at the beginning, she's very villainous,
Speaker 1: like you hate you want to hate her like, and
Speaker 1: then she just has so many twists and turns and
Speaker 1: I think her kind stucky's a one to watch. I
Speaker 1: don't know what this episode was going for in terms
Speaker 1: of this pedophile they made, like truly, they made this man,
Speaker 1: the guy who played Buzz in home alone is just
Speaker 1: like a super pedophile, Like he has no idea he's
Speaker 1: doing anything wrong, and he's just kind of like this,
Speaker 1: like like a full screwless and also violent and creepy
Speaker 1: and the mask horrible.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I think they would just sit down with the writers
Speaker 1: and be like, everybody, just write a couple things down
Speaker 1: from your nightmares, and then we're going to turn it
Speaker 1: into a character.
Speaker 2: Uh No, I would say that this is the worst,
Speaker 2: one of the worst things I've ever researched, and it's bothered.
Speaker 3: Me ever since.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it'll probably continue to never leave my brain
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life and probably the people listening, like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it is just bad.
Speaker 1: Yes, I have literally thought of your research multiple times
Speaker 1: since we recorded this episode, Like I it's I mean,
Speaker 1: that's like and dig what happened to these kids and
Speaker 1: that like this this boy was taken so young and
Speaker 1: basically just like turned into a monster. Like it's it's
Speaker 1: oh my god crazy. We don't have to relive it,
Speaker 1: but we don't.
Speaker 2: But now and even though white vans are obviously always
Speaker 2: connected to molesters and creeps. Now there's a nether level.
Speaker 2: I peek in, I get a new fear of white vans.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if there's a tiny little window or any sliver,
Speaker 1: I'm peeking in. I'm like, anyone in there, bang twice
Speaker 1: if you need help, Like I, vans are who they're tough.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I told you know, because
Speaker 2: I'm addicted to my phone. So I was just like
Speaker 2: on my phone, just like sucked into whatever I was doing.
Speaker 2: And then I looked to the left of me and
Speaker 2: I was truly standing in front of a white van
Speaker 2: that was open, fully wide with tools, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I could be pushed in it, Like why am I
Speaker 2: standing here?
Speaker 1: Like I oh god?
Speaker 3: You know what's like crazy too?
Speaker 2: Is that?
Speaker 1: Like since we've recorded this episode, we've recorded another episode
Speaker 1: about somebody getting grabbed into a white van Like so
Speaker 1: oh yes, literally it's that common. But anyway, I don't
Speaker 1: know what the post mortem takeaway lesson is here.
Speaker 3: It's just you don't have kids.
Speaker 2: If you don't want to have kids, do not have children,
Speaker 2: do not sign parental rights, like, do not have kids
Speaker 2: if you are not fully equipped to have children. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the number one lesson here.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, some states are forcing you to do that. So
Speaker 1: I guess if you're being forced to have a child
Speaker 1: and you don't want it, please try to get to
Speaker 1: another state and not have the child.
Speaker 2: All right, That was insensitive depending on where you live,
Speaker 2: so that.
Speaker 1: But yes, so in general, don't have kids to put
Speaker 1: a band aid on your relationship. Don't have kids because
Speaker 1: your mom told you to. Don't have kids because you
Speaker 1: think someone will take care of you when you're older.
Speaker 3: Don't do that.
Speaker 1: But let's get into our what would Sister Peg do
Speaker 1: for the week. This is our weekly segment where we
Speaker 1: direct you towards an organization, an article, a doc, something
Speaker 1: to give you more info about what we talked about today.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to point you guys this week to
Speaker 1: an organization called Helping Survivors. Their group's mission is to
Speaker 1: quote help, heal, educate, and empower people who have been
Speaker 1: impacted by sexual assault and abuse. Specifically, the organization helps
Speaker 1: victims of uber and lift sexual assault, workplace sexual harassment,
Speaker 1: and institutional based sexual assault. They provide victims with quote
Speaker 1: unquote accurate, trustworthy, and up to date information regarding their legal,
Speaker 1: financial and healthcare options. So I also know this organization
Speaker 1: just started in twenty twenty two, so they are you know,
Speaker 1: out there and hungry to make a difference. So for
Speaker 1: more info head over to Helping Survivors dot org.
Speaker 3: That will, as usual.
Speaker 1: Be saved in our WWSPD highlight which is on our
Speaker 1: Instagram page which is Thats Messed Up Pod.
Speaker 3: Come follow us, guys. We're posting fun shit over there.
Speaker 3: We're posting games, we're posting videos, we're posting homework. You
Speaker 3: know we're fun.
Speaker 2: And next week we'll be covering the episode's Spring Awakening
Speaker 2: from season fifteen, episode twenty four.
Speaker 3: We'll see you then, everyone, enjoy your lives. Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer, Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer, Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner. And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media that the time