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Speaker 1: Baseball is a unique sport where size does not matter.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter do you one D, two D three

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Speaker 1: shook in. If you have the tools, if you have

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Speaker 1: the ability, they will find you. That understanding is what

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Speaker 1: it really takes to be a competitor to win. It's

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Speaker 1: not any sometimes thing. It's not a show once in

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Speaker 1: a while. It's a I come every day. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter if you think I'm the best player or not

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Speaker 1: the best player. This is the Reformed Sports Project, a

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Speaker 1: podcast about restoring healthy balance and perspective in all areas

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Speaker 1: of sports through education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick

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Speaker 1: Bonacourt from the Reformed Sports Project podcast. Joining me today

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Speaker 1: is former Major League Baseball pitcher Billy Wagner from two ten.

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Speaker 1: Billy the Kid pitched for the Astros, Phillies, Mets, Red

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Speaker 1: Sox in the Braves. Man, I am freaking pumped. I

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Speaker 1: have just an awesome guest. He's one of the goats.

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Speaker 1: Here's an absolute stud, Billy Wagner, Billy the Kid, man

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Speaker 1: so pumped to have you. It's also to be on

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Speaker 1: this and have an opportunity to be on a podium.

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Speaker 1: That's great. You know we're the lucky ones and congrats.

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Speaker 1: I know you last year were inducted into the College

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Speaker 1: Baseball Hall of Fame. And I'm sure Cooper's Town will

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Speaker 1: be coming next man. So you're on the ballot again,

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Speaker 1: you know, for another several years, and I'm pretty certain

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Speaker 1: that's gonna happen there very soon. You know. It's just

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Speaker 1: it's an honor to be on that that list. So

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Speaker 1: you know, hopefully I get that call someday. Before we

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Speaker 1: start talking about Cooper's Town, we're gonna start back and

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Speaker 1: where it all started, and we're talking about youth sports.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about athletic development, and uh, we don't want

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Speaker 1: to ask you you're a coach or a parent as well.

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Speaker 1: And today, in this day and age, there's this whole

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Speaker 1: idea that there's this big race, this chase, and and

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Speaker 1: it's no longer let's just take our kids to sign

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Speaker 1: them up at seasonal sports. It's almost like everything we

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Speaker 1: do is done with a purpose of reaching either the

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Speaker 1: college ranks or scholarship. And what are your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: early sports specialization? Right like ten thousand hours one sport

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Speaker 1: year round at seven years old versus kids sampling and

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Speaker 1: playing multiple sports to have fun and be athletes. Well,

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Speaker 1: I believe that there comes a point that you will

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Speaker 1: have to specialize just because how the world has changed.

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Speaker 1: But when you're starting out, the biggest thing that I

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Speaker 1: see as a coach is the kids that are able

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Speaker 1: to go out there and be coachable. We have to

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Speaker 1: been coached by a lot of people. You can't have

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Speaker 1: mommy and Daddy always coaching and grant, I've coached my

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Speaker 1: kids quite often. But what you find is the kids

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Speaker 1: that go out there find a little bit more grit

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Speaker 1: when they play different sports. There's a different way they

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Speaker 1: have to move. Their body becomes more athletic when you

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Speaker 1: play different sports. You know, I played football, pick up basketball,

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Speaker 1: and of course baseball, but you know, my love is football,

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Speaker 1: and uh that's that's what I wanted to do. I

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Speaker 1: thought football was going to be the greatest thing that

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that everybody was bigger than five foot

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Speaker 1: seven and they could just crush you. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: my dream's got damn crushed when I got to college.

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Speaker 1: But I think being able to play multiple sports and

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Speaker 1: trained differently helped uh to to get me to where

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Speaker 1: I was. It taught me how to handle my body,

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Speaker 1: to use my body you know, we didn't have as

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Speaker 1: many weird injuries. I mean, I've never even heard of

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Speaker 1: these issues with growth plates and and things like that.

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Speaker 1: You never had that. We just you know, if it hurts,

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Speaker 1: you didn't throw. But now you can pretty much slut

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Speaker 1: it from you know, late twelve to fifteen years old,

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Speaker 1: guys gonna have growth plates and then you know that

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Speaker 1: can last on up to eight team. But with today's

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Speaker 1: game being so structured and everybody wanting to fight to

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Speaker 1: be a Major League Baseball player, it seems like if

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Speaker 1: they're if they're not D one or in that draft discussion,

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Speaker 1: you know, they are very uh there beside yourselves. I

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Speaker 1: mean they go to a drive line at Worston State,

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Speaker 1: or they'll go to Boston, or they do all these

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Speaker 1: things that um back when we were growing up, we

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Speaker 1: were you know, we were outside of probably a little

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Speaker 1: bit more working in fields and doing that kind of labor. Nowadays,

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Speaker 1: they don't have that type of labor, or they don't

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Speaker 1: go out in playball, they don't have football, they don't

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Speaker 1: do these things as much. And I mean football is

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Speaker 1: sevennths seven. I mean it's hard to be a multi

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Speaker 1: sport athlete anymore. Just because the way you have to

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Speaker 1: train today to be the type of athlete you think

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Speaker 1: that they want. I mean the days of a Bo Jackson,

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Speaker 1: Reggie Sanders, Brian Jordan's. I don't know if that will

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Speaker 1: ever happen again, but those are the guys that were

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Speaker 1: just freaks and we're tremendous athletes. But now to be

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Speaker 1: a Bo Jackson or something like that, you have to

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Speaker 1: specialize in that one field. And it's you know, and

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Speaker 1: it starts at unfortunately a lot of times, at early age,

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Speaker 1: and that you probably going into that freshman sophomore year

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Speaker 1: high school where you gotta make up your mind and say, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna play this. And you might be a multi

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Speaker 1: sport athlete going into uh through high school, but when

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Speaker 1: you get to college, you know, now you you're forced

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Speaker 1: to become that sport of baseball. I mean, learning how

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Speaker 1: to be a baseball player is different than just showing

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Speaker 1: up in the spring and going, Okay, I'm gonna play

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Speaker 1: my eighteen twenty games, even if I'm gonna you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get ready for a summer, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get ready for football and basketball and well, you know,

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Speaker 1: all these sports it's it's uh, it's a different way

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Speaker 1: that you know, we look at it. And parents at

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Speaker 1: times that you know, aren't real listic enough to say

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Speaker 1: that it's okay for the kid to be a Division

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Speaker 1: three player. They think that their kids the best, which

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Speaker 1: as a high school coach I tell every parent when

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Speaker 1: we meet is I hope you think your kids the best.

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Speaker 1: It's my job to help you become realistic when it

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Speaker 1: when the time comes, I mean. And then there's there's

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Speaker 1: times when the kid is really he is the best,

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Speaker 1: and that's a great thing for him and and a

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Speaker 1: lot of their dreams come true. But for the most part, though,

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Speaker 1: you know they're not going to a power five school.

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Speaker 1: There's only so many schools and scholarships to go around,

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Speaker 1: and you know they feel jaded if if they're not there.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the whole goal for a real competitive

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Speaker 1: athlete is to go somewhere where you can play and compete.

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Speaker 1: And I know, being in Division three, I had one

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Speaker 1: offer coming out of high school and that was Virginia Tech.

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Speaker 1: In grade wise, I couldn't handle that. I couldn't handle

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Speaker 1: the class size, I couldn't handle I knew I couldn't

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Speaker 1: handle that. Stuff. So I ended up going to farm

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Speaker 1: and it really was a suit for me because the

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Speaker 1: fact that I was able to handle class size and

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Speaker 1: the responsibility given to me at that level, plus the

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Speaker 1: development A lot of kids need to have feel that

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Speaker 1: they have to be more developed before they get to

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Speaker 1: college because the college coaches don't develop because of the

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Speaker 1: n c Double A regulations, and they cut the coaching

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Speaker 1: development down so much that the college coaches expect these

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Speaker 1: kids to be professionals by the time they get in

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Speaker 1: their freshman year. They expect them to know all the

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Speaker 1: ins and outs and you know, look the part. So

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Speaker 1: it's very it's very difficult right now for parents and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But I have luks and be being I guess more

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Speaker 1: insightful on really a path. But I mean it's very

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a broad subject because of just the

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Speaker 1: way it's you know, perceived, and what what the rules

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Speaker 1: are nowadays. There's one thing I wanted to bring up.

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Speaker 1: You said competitive athletes, and what I hear most of

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Speaker 1: all when I talked to Dan McDonald, when I talked

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Speaker 1: to Tim Corby, when I talked to Mike and any

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Speaker 1: coach doesn't matter the sport. Scott Forbes. He literally said

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Speaker 1: to me, Nick, parents and kids are looking for the

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Speaker 1: secret sauce. Well that's the word right there. Competition competitive,

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Speaker 1: Like we want kids that want to come here and compete.

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Speaker 1: You know, the problem is you look at a transfer part.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know what existed until like a year ago.

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Speaker 1: It's like a free agent waiver wire. Because what happens

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Speaker 1: is so and so is not starting on this team

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Speaker 1: when they're ten, eleven, twelve, and then dad just starts

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Speaker 1: another team. He starts his own team. It's the old idea.

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Speaker 1: Instead of preparing the child for the path, we're going

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Speaker 1: to prepare the path for the child so they're not

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Speaker 1: allowed to go through adversity. It's not the kids fault,

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Speaker 1: but it's tough to compete when you don't know how

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Speaker 1: to deal with adversity. Can you talk a little about

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Speaker 1: the employees? Absolutely, I think camping. I've got four kids myself,

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Speaker 1: and all my kids have been late bloomers, and so

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Speaker 1: they're always been undersized until you know that junior senior

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Speaker 1: year and they start to grow. So they have to

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Speaker 1: compete against bigger, better and faster and stronger people. And

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Speaker 1: there's always people coming into my school that are already

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Speaker 1: more mature. They've been more uh developed, in seasoned because

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Speaker 1: they've been into plane more. But the best thing about

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Speaker 1: a real athlete, a real athlete loves to compete, and

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Speaker 1: they don't compete to size, to compete to everybody. They

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Speaker 1: compete to the heart of the subject. So if I've

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Speaker 1: got a six ft four guy who's a super talent,

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Speaker 1: he can do a lot of things well, and I've

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Speaker 1: got this five eight guy who uh is undersized, the

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Speaker 1: five ek is gonna have to work twice as hard.

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Speaker 1: But what makes the five eek guy usually a little

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Speaker 1: bit more valuable because there's no quit in that guy.

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Speaker 1: That guy has never had a chance to take a

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Speaker 1: day off because he's never been good enough to take

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Speaker 1: the day off. And so that guy continues to have

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Speaker 1: that grit in that fight to him and so they

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Speaker 1: learned how to do that. Where the kid at six

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Speaker 1: four might have been six to when he was in

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Speaker 1: eighth grade or playing travel ball and just wearing people

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Speaker 1: out at fourteen years old, you know, they've never had

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Speaker 1: that real competition until they get into a higher level,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes they struggle with that competition. So as a coach,

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Speaker 1: you're looking for the guy who's got that intangible, that

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Speaker 1: little bulldog, the little uh grid about him that you

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Speaker 1: know they're they're in that for the long haul. There. Hey,

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Speaker 1: when when we come to the game, you better pack

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Speaker 1: your bag, you better pack your lunch, you better come

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Speaker 1: prepared for a fight. And no matter how big we are,

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Speaker 1: you know this size will never matter. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: most parents think they they you know, they keep up

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Speaker 1: their kids. Staff or their coaches aren't coming to the

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Speaker 1: other coaches going what's this bad average? I mean a

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Speaker 1: good coach can sit there and see for theirselves. I

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Speaker 1: mean I think, God, I haven't had a pitching coache

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Speaker 1: come up to me and go, hey, what's the spin

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Speaker 1: rate for? You know, what's his lonch angle? Because you know,

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Speaker 1: it's really what you see. And so what coaches come

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Speaker 1: on masks? What kind of kid is this? You know

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Speaker 1: he got some bread? Is he a fighter? Is? Uh?

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Speaker 1: What what makes them so special? And so those are

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Speaker 1: the things that for me stand out with, uh, what

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Speaker 1: coaches really want. And I mean it doesn't hurt when

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Speaker 1: you're six four and you have that little fight, a

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Speaker 1: little chip on your shoulder, but they want guys that

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Speaker 1: are gonna go out there and find ways to win.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes you can have all the sides, but you

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Speaker 1: don't know how to play. Learning how to be a

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Speaker 1: baseball player is difficult, just like you would be learning

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Speaker 1: how to be a football player. How do I train

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Speaker 1: like a baseball player? How do I train like a

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Speaker 1: football player? And so you know, I think those are

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Speaker 1: just some of the things that as a coach we

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Speaker 1: look at those little little intangibles. That's Billy Wagoner for

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Speaker 1: a big league baseball player. When we come back, wags

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Speaker 1: that I will get into the d wonder bust mentality

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Speaker 1: and it vice for high school players and parents. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the Reform Sports Project podcast. Where Billy and

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Speaker 1: I left off. We were about to dive into the

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Speaker 1: d one or bust mentality, what it means to be competitive,

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Speaker 1: and some stories from back in our old college playing days.

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Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, when you were twelve or

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Speaker 1: thirte you didn't wake up in the morning and go, man,

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Speaker 1: I want to go to fair Room. When I want

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Speaker 1: to graduate from high school, I want to go to

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Speaker 1: fairm I went to North Carolina Wesley and when I

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Speaker 1: was a freshman in high school, I was like I

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Speaker 1: wanted to go to Miami. I wanted to go to

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Speaker 1: Georgia Tech. I want to go to cal Stave Fullerton

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Speaker 1: because I wanted to watch the College World Series. That's

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Speaker 1: who was on TV, and that's where I wanted to go.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I didn't take me to WHT to realize

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Speaker 1: I could play in college, you know, but I wasn't

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Speaker 1: gonna play that level. But I had a great experience.

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Speaker 1: I played in the same conference as you. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was Division three. It didn't feel like it. You know,

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Speaker 1: we had guys that were playing that made it to

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Speaker 1: the big leagues. You know, you're competing for a World Series.

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Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, you know this whole

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Speaker 1: d wonder bust thing. You know, what is it about

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Speaker 1: baseball that makes it unique where it doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: level you play. If you're gonna make it to the

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Speaker 1: big league, you're gonna get there. People like talent. You

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Speaker 1: got talent, they'll find you. I remember arm cars coming

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Speaker 1: driving down to Baseball City my freshman year and we

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Speaker 1: took our spring trip. When we go down we play St.

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Speaker 1: Bonaventure and we played uh Lynchburg. We play some teams

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Speaker 1: down there. Uh Well, this year my freshman year we

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Speaker 1: we get down there and we're playing the University of

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh on the on the back field of my league

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Speaker 1: field at Baseball City where the Royals train. Man, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we drive fourteen hours down to Orlando. We're all

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Speaker 1: in a cramp. You know, you've got twenty five guys

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Speaker 1: in a cramed little mini bus. Do you remember how

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Speaker 1: fair was? I mean, we didn't have half the time,

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Speaker 1: we didn't have uniforms that match a little. The pants

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Speaker 1: would be red and staying with our red clay. And

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Speaker 1: so we rolled down there and here comes the University

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Speaker 1: of Pittsburgh and this nice bus. I mean they roll

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Speaker 1: off of that looks like there's a hundred people come

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Speaker 1: off at bus. Ten coaches. I mean they're out there

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I mean, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: throwing on the Big League show. Many you would thought, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is this is how it's supposed to be. There.

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Speaker 1: There's balls flying everywhere. Man, there's the coaches. We're sitting

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Speaker 1: there in all holy count Well. I remember we come

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Speaker 1: out and we start the game, and I mean we

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Speaker 1: started a game by pounding on those guys. We had

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Speaker 1: a senior on the mountain. His name was Robert Fuller.

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Speaker 1: He came out and he threw like seven innings because

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Speaker 1: I think he's too six and we're winning like seven

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Speaker 1: nothing at that time. Maybe find that coach, be goes

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Speaker 1: hey Wax, getting the game is first. Is my first

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Speaker 1: couge game. I rolled out there. Man, I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what I take back and have no such things

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Speaker 1: are breaking ball. But I knew what I had and

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Speaker 1: so I went out there, and I think I punched

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Speaker 1: out nine guys. And you know, the undressed Pittsburgh William

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Speaker 1: shake her hands. We beat them seven and nothing. They

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Speaker 1: don't even look at us. They won't shake our hands.

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Speaker 1: They won't do anything. And that goes back to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, baseball is the unique sport where size does

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Speaker 1: not matter. It doesn't matter D one, D two, D three,

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Speaker 1: Juko in a I. If you have the tools, if

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Speaker 1: you have the ability, they will find you. My short

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Speaker 1: stopping college. He went on to play teen years in

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Speaker 1: profile as a second baseman, in field, outfield guy with

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Speaker 1: San Diego, with Cincinnati, all kinds of guys, and you

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Speaker 1: know it. You know it didn't matter where you come from,

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Speaker 1: because these guys won't they won't talent. They want winners.

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Speaker 1: And so what people don't realize is they're not going

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Speaker 1: out there looking for guys that can just hit home run,

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Speaker 1: so guys that can just do this. They want guys

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Speaker 1: that can compete and win when things aren't well. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they always asked the coaches, Hey, what kind of guy

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Speaker 1: is he when things aren't going well? And they want

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Speaker 1: to see these guys multiple times. You know, they don't

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Speaker 1: want to seem just when things are going well. They

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Speaker 1: want to see him when it's when it doesn't do well.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, and I put this into perspective, like

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Speaker 1: this my junior year, maybe it's my sophomore year. We're

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Speaker 1: twenty five and oh. We go down in North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: Wesley and I mean we're twenty five and oh, I

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Speaker 1: mean we are as good as we've ever been. We

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Speaker 1: go down there and I think we've won one game

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Speaker 1: the first game or something like that. Second game, they

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Speaker 1: bring me in in relief and man on third base

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Speaker 1: and not do the ball halfway up the backstop brunts, course,

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Speaker 1: uh from third we lose, that's first gonna be lose.

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Speaker 1: We lose. So I mean, all of a sudden, we're

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Speaker 1: twenty five and one and I mean, you know, and

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Speaker 1: that was like one of those things like, holy cow,

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Speaker 1: wasn't the very next day right back out there, go

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Speaker 1: get I'm figured out, you know, those were those learning

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Speaker 1: moments in my junior year. I roll out. There's hundreds

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Speaker 1: of scouts down in Jacksonville, Florida to watch me pitch

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Speaker 1: against St. Mint Adventure, and I am awful, terrible. I mean,

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Speaker 1: at the end of that day, I'm like, there's no

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Speaker 1: way I'm getting drafted, No way. And I don't really

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Speaker 1: didn't even know what that was. But that was the

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Speaker 1: first time I really figured out what competing was and

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Speaker 1: being selfish was because I was not thinking about winning

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Speaker 1: the game because I was so worried about what if

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Speaker 1: I'm not successful? But if I'm not good that day,

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Speaker 1: you know, now the draft was more important than my team.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm out there and don't build. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm whining about how I blew my chances and crap

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Speaker 1: like that, you know, and my coach and he was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you didn't play to win. You weren't playing to win.

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Speaker 1: You were playing for this reason. And that was that

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Speaker 1: was that developed moment that told me, hey, when you're

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Speaker 1: when you're a real competitor. You're not competing for the

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Speaker 1: next page. You go out there and you compete to win,

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Speaker 1: and all the money, the glory that all that stuff

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Speaker 1: calms and the opportunities come when you go out and compete,

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Speaker 1: and you might it may not be the easiest way

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Speaker 1: to make that living sometimes and you may have to really,

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Speaker 1: you know, help it in the minor leagues, or you

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Speaker 1: may have to really stay you know, in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the pack for a while. But you gotta keep

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Speaker 1: pounding and working hard, and you know, the cream will

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Speaker 1: rise to the top. And they that wasn't a saying

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Speaker 1: that just got made up, that that is something that

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Speaker 1: coach sees. But the kid who goes out there as

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Speaker 1: a freshman, who's five foot eighty five pounds and he's

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Speaker 1: taking a beating every day, and he keeps coming back,

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Speaker 1: He keeps coming back, he keeps running that extra sprint,

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Speaker 1: he keeps going in that way room trying to push away.

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Speaker 1: And then by that junior year, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: he's starting to push people around. Now he's starting to

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Speaker 1: do a few things, and all of a sudden, that

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Speaker 1: growth happens. But with that growth, there's that chip on

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Speaker 1: the shore of that push, that understanding of what it

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Speaker 1: really takes to be a competitor to win. It's not

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Speaker 1: a sometimes thing. It's not a show up once in

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Speaker 1: a while. It's a I come every day. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter if you think I'm the best players or not

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Speaker 1: the best player. I am the guy who's going to

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Speaker 1: tow it up and you've got to deal with me.

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Speaker 1: And so those are the things that you know, I

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Speaker 1: think as a D one D it doesn't matter. You know,

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Speaker 1: D one has such you know, disillusion and they are

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Speaker 1: grand and they get to be on TV and they

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Speaker 1: get to do all these things, and that's wonderful, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't make you a better baseball player than the

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Speaker 1: D three guy, whether Juco or the n AI or

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Speaker 1: the Division two guy. And it's just, you know, each

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Speaker 1: person has an individual path and a place that suits them,

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Speaker 1: and that that's what they need to be thinking about

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. If they go to you one,

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Speaker 1: they sit so they don't get any playing time, they

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Speaker 1: don't get that experience, and then they're complaining about it.

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Speaker 1: And then there in the old transfer portal and winting

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Speaker 1: that the coach didn't get him a chance and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that and that goes back to if you if

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Speaker 1: you choose to go to U, n C, U v A,

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Speaker 1: you know, do these prestigious schools, then you know what,

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Speaker 1: every day, every practice is a tryout every day because

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Speaker 1: Coach Fox. I mean, I've talked to Coach Fox and

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Speaker 1: you know most of these kids. The selling point for

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Speaker 1: a school anymore or d one is they walk in

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Speaker 1: and look at the baby blue Jordan's shoes. Who doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to wear those? I'm good here? Yeah, So you

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Speaker 1: know it's the apparel. It's this this illusion where you

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Speaker 1: know what, men and Coach Fox has had some really

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Speaker 1: good discussions just about how the game has changed, you know,

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Speaker 1: from his time at NC Wesley into UNC, where you know,

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Speaker 1: he's had teams that would absolutely annihilate some of his

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Speaker 1: teams at UNC, and the grit that that those teams

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Speaker 1: had that some of his UNC teams didn't happen. And

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Speaker 1: you know, he has that picture of what it was

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Speaker 1: going to take to win that national championship and that

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Speaker 1: was because he'd won it. And when he put a

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Speaker 1: team together and he had all these gritty players he

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Speaker 1: didn't have you know, twenty five. You know all Americans,

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Speaker 1: you know, he might have one or two, but he

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Speaker 1: would have such unbelievable grit and stuff that made these teams.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's you know, as a coach, that's

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Speaker 1: what you're always looking for. And so when Scott and

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Speaker 1: these coaches are looking for players, you know, they're really

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Speaker 1: looking for that guy that had that full package of

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Speaker 1: a gift plus the ability to be very driven and

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Speaker 1: competitive and compete in all circumstances. What would be a

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Speaker 1: minute ninety seconds piece of advice you'd give to parents,

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Speaker 1: kids who they're not power of five kids coming out

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Speaker 1: of high school. These are kids like you know that

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Speaker 1: that can play college ball, trying to figure out what

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Speaker 1: level they should go to. Parents don't want to get

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Speaker 1: caught up in in the crazy rat race. What's a

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Speaker 1: piece of advice to help them enjoy the process and

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Speaker 1: get to where they need to be? Visits? Take visits

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Speaker 1: to oh kind of schools. Don't just go to the

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Speaker 1: big D one prestigius schools. Go go to the D three.

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Speaker 1: Here the coach, watch the practices, go and and look

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Speaker 1: at the academics. Value yourself at your academics understanding. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you go to this school and you get hurt.

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Speaker 1: Would you want to be at this school? Will you

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Speaker 1: stay at this school no matter what if there's no

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Speaker 1: baseball for you? I mean to buy in. You know

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I want to be at this school. You

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Speaker 1: have to buy in. And you want a school that

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Speaker 1: wants you to. I mean, everybody may want to go

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Speaker 1: to a power five, but they may not want you.

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Speaker 1: But you might have n Cy, Wesleyan or a fairm

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00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 1: that really want you. And all of a sudden, you're

429
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,680
Speaker 1: gonna win a couple of national championships, and all of

430
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,640
Speaker 1: a sudden you kind of see, you get to develop,

431
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 1: you get to play in great competition, all of a sudden.

432
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 1: How you get that an extra dream of being able

433
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 1: to go play profile you just doesn't matter where you go.

434
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 1: It's got to be the fit for you. You can't

435
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 1: be too fit for the name. It's not a name thing.

436
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,399
Speaker 1: It's a fit for you in athletic and academics. I

437
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 1: like to you, I can ask you one last thing.

438
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 1: Because I played for coach Fox. He recruited me and

439
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 1: I was fortunate to get to play with What a gift.

440
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 1: But when you played against him, I mean, I know

441
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,880
Speaker 1: how fired up he was. I mean this sound ago.

442
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 1: He was competitive, He he was determined, He was an

443
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,719
Speaker 1: unbelievable leader. He loved his players, and he coached everyone differently,

444
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: but he wanted to compete. He was competitive. What was

445
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: it like going to battle against some of his teams

446
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: that NC Wasn't you got any good stories? Yeah? Well

447
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 1: not none of that are favorable for Fair, But it

448
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 1: seemed like we were always behind. I mean we no

449
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,200
Speaker 1: matter what the rankings would be. You know, there was

450
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 1: really three teams that that kind of owned that conference.

451
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 1: It was Fair, Wesley or Methodist, and we were all

452
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 1: three battling each other at that point. I mean you

453
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 1: would looking in the rankings and you would see in

454
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 1: the top five US three, So we would just be

455
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 1: beating on each other. You knew that you had to

456
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,199
Speaker 1: play a good game, You had to play almost a

457
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 1: flawless game, and I mean even to come out and

458
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: beat that team two out of three. I mean, you were,

459
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 1: you were, you were with you were. You knew you

460
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,719
Speaker 1: had to play your best three games and you had

461
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,120
Speaker 1: to come out there and there were so many tough losses,

462
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 1: I mean four to three, two to one, one and nothing.

463
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 1: I mean, guys really stepping up and competing in Fox.

464
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you just knew they were well man, so

465
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,360
Speaker 1: you knew that you you couldn't have that laps in judgment.

466
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 1: You just you had to be ready to play every moment,

467
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,639
Speaker 1: every pitch, everything had to go. And and that was

468
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 1: the fun part going down and you know, it's just

469
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: a good environment. I mean we played I mean it's

470
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: ninety one or it was one of those years we

471
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 1: played you guys in the in the playoffs and we

472
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 1: we want two out of three. We come out there,

473
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 1: we win the first game, and then the next thing

474
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 1: we know she wasn't back in the World Series. And

475
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: that seemed to be the norm. I mean, we could

476
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: we could never get passed. We could could win our

477
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 1: two games, but could never win the third game. And

478
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 1: so but it was just that that competition, and it

479
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: was I mean, you know, people didn't realize how unbelievable

480
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: the talent was at that level. There's no d ones

481
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: wanted to play any of us at that time because

482
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: you can get they can get their feelings hurt. And

483
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: that was saying Fox was tough, and he was he

484
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: was vocal and ad Naffen and uh, what the Austin

485
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: Tom Austin. They were I mean, they were fired up.

486
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: I could just see you. Now, man, those are some

487
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 1: good those are some good battles. And uh that's the

488
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 1: beautiful part about baseball is you know, you would think

489
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 1: you had the highest you know, nine innings or case

490
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 1: per nine and college baseball history. But you know, you

491
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 1: get a bunch of scrappers together that can just compete.

492
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: You can, you can beat somebody every once in a while.

493
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 1: But coach Fox only story. I think the year was

494
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 1: like after they won the national championship in eighty nine,

495
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 1: I think it was nineties. He's like, Nick, one year

496
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 1: we played eleven d ones and we went eight and three.

497
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: You know, talking about e c U. You're talking about

498
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 1: Wake four. People don't get like the teams that you

499
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: guys had back then. He goes, before the rules changed,

500
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: it didn't matter. Now there's no d ones. Can't play

501
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,479
Speaker 1: teams like that. If they lose, it like hurts them

502
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: big time. Oh yeah, I mean, and really damages baseball

503
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 1: because baseball is not I mean, for whatever reason you

504
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: decide to go to Division three or two or one

505
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: or whatever the situation is, you're a baseball player. Now

506
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: there is a difference at times, but those really top

507
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: division threes and Division twos and Division ones, they they

508
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 1: compete well against each other. Now like friends never or

509
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: n C West is never gonna go and play you

510
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: and see a three game set and you know we

511
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: might give you your run for the first game, but

512
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 1: you know you're probably gonna bet the two out of three.

513
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: But you know what our battle is that one game.

514
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: You know you can't beat the amount of talent, but

515
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 1: you also can't beat the amount of heart it takes

516
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: to play a night evening game against somebody. If you

517
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 1: if you have a hiccup or you just come out

518
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: and think it's not justify, you get your feelings hurt.

519
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: You get me fired up. Billy Waggoner, I don't want

520
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: to keep any longer. Man, this has been awesome. I

521
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: cannot thank you for enough for coming on and sharing

522
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 1: your insight, your wisdom, and this has been really fun.

523
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful for you. I appreciate you having It's

524
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: always always fun to hear three. That's Billy wagon for

525
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: a big leag baseball player. Thanks for listening to the

526
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: Reform Sports Project podcast. Dominic Boncourt and our goal is

527
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: to restore a healthy balance and perspective in all areas

528
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: of sports through education and advocacy. For updates, please follow

529
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check out our

530
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 1: website by searching for the Reform Sports Project