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Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.

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Speaker 1: And we continue now with part three of our conversation

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Speaker 1: with rche Cooper. Right after these brief messages from our

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Speaker 1: general sponsors, let's now return to Archa on one of

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Speaker 1: his crew members.

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Speaker 2: There was this kid named Alvin. He was in the

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Speaker 2: biggest gang.

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Speaker 1: Which was what was the biggest game?

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Speaker 2: It was Travel Vice Lord. They call the set Sla

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Speaker 2: straight off all money.

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Speaker 1: Tell our listeners what the nickname is for the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: because of all the lords.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a gang called vice Lord and vice

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Speaker 2: Lord broke broke into many lords. The neighborhood is called

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Speaker 2: Holy City because all the games were vice lords. You

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Speaker 2: had conservative vice law travel and vice lad insane vice.

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Speaker 1: Lord committing courvitive vice lords. What are they like Trump?

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Speaker 1: Vice Lords? They vote for Trump.

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Speaker 2: No, they were more like you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: like I guess they would say, they're more organized than

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Speaker 2: the other games. We're not just going to beat you.

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Speaker 1: Down, but because wait, we have this document you need

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Speaker 1: to sign before you're beat down, because as you know,

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Speaker 1: you broke rules fourteen B. Now sign this and get

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Speaker 1: your APPO. And so they were all divisions of lords,

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Speaker 1: and everybody was something lord something Lord something Lord Lord,

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Speaker 1: and people actually referred to each other as vice lord.

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Speaker 1: But did they call each other lord lord, Like what's up? Lord? No?

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Speaker 2: The lord was going on Lord. No, man, you know

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Speaker 2: it was lord.

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Speaker 1: And then it became, ironically enough, the most unholy of

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Speaker 1: holy situations became nicknamed holy shit.

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Speaker 2: Holy city, Holy City. And I think this is an

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Speaker 2: important piece in the story to help people understand this

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Speaker 2: gang life. I told coach and came up. You know,

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Speaker 2: I can probably talk about this. I said, Alvin shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be in the gang because he's I mean, he shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be on the team because he's fighting people, beating up people.

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Speaker 2: He was like, no, he's strong, he's good. He's strong.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, it's toxic, you know. But he's

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Speaker 2: been coming to practice and he's been training with us.

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Speaker 2: In the first trip to at we real talk. Were

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Speaker 2: you afraid of him a little bit?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely afraid of him.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: You know, me see this dude beat people down with

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Speaker 2: his crew. And I remember we go to Philly and

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Speaker 2: I sit next to him on the bus. I've seen

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Speaker 2: he's like this guy, this guy even showing up every day.

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Speaker 2: And I said, Alvin, you know why you why you?

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Speaker 1: Why?

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Speaker 2: What's up at all? The fighting? Like beating up people,

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Speaker 2: you know? And and we wrote, I wrote, he actually

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Speaker 2: wrote right behind me. So we started to build a

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Speaker 2: little connection. He's having the seat behind me, and so

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Speaker 2: we rode in pairs, so he was We started to

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Speaker 2: build a little connection and we started talking a little bit,

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Speaker 2: but just like basic stuff, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: And and I sat next to him on the bus

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Speaker 2: and I said, hey, man, like, why are you fighting?

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Speaker 2: And he said, man, listen, I have never had a

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Speaker 2: fight because of me. I've never started a fight. When

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Speaker 2: I first moved here, me and my brother would jump

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Speaker 2: by ten people and I just told my brother to

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Speaker 2: run to get dad. Run. I take it. I take it,

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Speaker 2: I take it. And he said when they when they

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Speaker 2: finished jumping him, a guy from across the street walked

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Speaker 2: up to him and said, listen, this is always gonna

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Speaker 2: happen when you go out of town. When you leave,

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Speaker 2: it's gonna happen to your little brother. Unless you help us,

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Speaker 2: you will never have the help. And Alice said, I

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Speaker 2: had to make it. Not a bad choice, but a

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Speaker 2: challenging choice. For myself and my brothers, And so every

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Speaker 2: fight he had he had to help someone else who

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Speaker 2: would getting into fights just so he can so he

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Speaker 2: can always have the protection. His little brother can have

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Speaker 2: the protection when he's gone.

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Speaker 1: All right, here we go breaking down stereotype number seventeen.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, there is a belief that these kids

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Speaker 1: get into gangs because quote, they just need a sense

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Speaker 1: of belonging. There may be some truth to that in

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Speaker 1: some respects, but that has not been my experience. My experiences,

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Speaker 1: they join the gangs because they're scared to death getting

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Speaker 1: their asked.

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Speaker 2: It's very not that.

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Speaker 1: They want to be part of that. They would much

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Speaker 1: rather be part of a team or school or nurturing

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Speaker 1: situation or grass or green or something. But it's all

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Speaker 1: that's available to them, and if they don't, they often

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Speaker 1: become the victim of the very gang that they subscribe

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Speaker 1: allegiance to.

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Speaker 2: It is dangerous being in a gang, but it's even

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Speaker 2: more dangerous not being in a gang.

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Speaker 1: So it's just a reality. It's a survival mechanism.

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Speaker 2: I say in the film, the big question is not

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Speaker 2: what college you're going to go to, but what gag

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Speaker 2: you're going to join? For protection. That's the big question.

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Speaker 1: People listening to this need to just let that marinate

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Speaker 1: a little. When your dream is to eat it's paulty,

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Speaker 1: or go five miles from your neighborhood just to see

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Speaker 1: a series tower, and that your reality is not where

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Speaker 1: you're going to college, what kind of job you're going

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Speaker 1: to have, but which gang you're going to join. And

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Speaker 1: then you don't understand after hearing that, and you and

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Speaker 1: you can't get your arms around that there are people

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Speaker 1: in our country that simply don't have the same privilege

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Speaker 1: of freedom to grow as other people in our country.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't speak badly about anybody else. It just speaks to

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Speaker 1: the reality of situation of guys like you and where

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Speaker 1: you grew up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, second, desperate, Yeah, secretary education are one Duncan white man.

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Speaker 2: He said it. It spoke to me, he said, if

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Speaker 2: more people look like me, if more people live downtown,

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't be tolerated.

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Speaker 1: Wow, And I guess that's strict. Do you find that truth?

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Speaker 2: I find it true, you know. But what I did

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Speaker 2: say to Alvin was, if you notice, for two months

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Speaker 2: you haven't been hanging out with those guys. You've been

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Speaker 2: in practice every day and That just shows that talent

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Speaker 2: is everywhere, but access and opportunity is not. Alvin Brother

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Speaker 2: said in the film when they tore down to YMCA,

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Speaker 2: and that happened often because of funding, he said, I

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Speaker 2: ran to the streets. I don't care if you white, black, Hispanic, Asian.

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Speaker 2: There were one hundred and fifty kids at that YMC.

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Speaker 2: That's where the counselors, the coaches, the mentors were at.

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Speaker 2: And now it's torn down and there's one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty kids hanging in the street. So it doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: what color you are. If there's one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: kids hanging out with nothing to do, it's crazy. Stuff's

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Speaker 2: gonna happen. Yes, you know what I mean. And U

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Speaker 2: but rowing came and pood ran to the rowing team,

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Speaker 2: and so you talk about the outlet for two hours,

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Speaker 2: like what are you run into? Like why are you

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Speaker 2: showing up to practice every day? Why are you showing

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Speaker 2: up to rowing every day? You know it's yes, it's

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Speaker 2: it's an escape.

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Speaker 1: And then through the hook of the respite and escape,

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Speaker 1: little by little, you kids didn't realize what you were

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Speaker 1: actually gaining, which was experience you wouldn't have ever had

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Speaker 1: otherwise had in teamwork. And my guess is, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've rote a john bowed across the lake before, and

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Speaker 1: that will wear you out. And my guess is if

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Speaker 1: you're with other guys trying to go fast, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's core strength, it's arm strength, it's cardio, it's you know.

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Speaker 1: So there's both physical and non physical attributes to a

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Speaker 1: successful role. What are those?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean height helps being tall, But

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Speaker 2: you know, I think the it's it's a lot more

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Speaker 2: than the physical piece, right, like being along, being flexible

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Speaker 2: or being strong. But I think the most important attributes

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Speaker 2: is like for some people, understanding as a follow you

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Speaker 2: have to learn to be a leader. As a leader,

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Speaker 2: you have to learn how to.

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Speaker 1: Follow because you're all in union.

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Speaker 2: Because you're all in unison.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I learned in rowing that I cannot do the work

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Speaker 2: of eight. I have to find eight to do the

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Speaker 2: work of one. And then we get the job must

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Speaker 2: gone faster. And it's not about you. It's about the

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Speaker 2: person who's sitting in front of you and the person

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Speaker 2: who sits behind you, and the discipline show up every day.

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Speaker 2: Understanding that the chemistry that you have in the boat

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Speaker 2: doesn't just happen in the boat, but it's what you

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Speaker 2: do outside of the boat, when you're asking each other

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Speaker 2: question is like what keeps you up at night? What

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Speaker 2: keeps you going personal questions. When Alvin told me that,

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Speaker 2: I was like, from this day four, I will always

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Speaker 2: pull for you. You know, when you're willing to get personal,

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Speaker 2: when you see someone that's working hard and crying out

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Speaker 2: there and ripping apart their hands and breaking their backs

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Speaker 2: for each other man, that is something that Alvin always

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Speaker 2: wanted and was looking for later in the film, and

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Speaker 2: not to tell the whole story, I start showed up

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Speaker 2: to his house every morning before school, walking with him

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Speaker 2: every day to school. He's the best man in my wedding.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's what sports does, and and that's that's

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Speaker 2: kind of just like, honestly, what what what we needed?

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Speaker 1: You know, we'll be right back. So when you joined

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Speaker 1: when when when the white boat and the White Lady

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Speaker 1: and the everybody showed up, you were were you a

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Speaker 1: freshman or a sophomore?

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Speaker 2: Sophomore?

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Speaker 1: Your sophomore? So this led to three years of rowing.

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Speaker 1: How good did y'all get?

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Speaker 2: We got good? I mean you know I say this,

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Speaker 2: we got really good we got really fast. They came

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Speaker 2: to a point where we lost Preston, who was amazing,

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Speaker 2: but he said, man that I'm like, I was doing good,

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Speaker 2: I was learning a lot. But his mom was still

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Speaker 2: a drug dealer and he said, you know, the streets

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Speaker 2: were calling. I saw what she was making, you know.

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Speaker 2: And he was a great accents to the team, and

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Speaker 2: we lost them. It was Malcolm was the strongest guy

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Speaker 2: on our team, and his dad was like, no, he

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Speaker 2: can't be on the team, and I don't want you

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Speaker 2: doing like you know.

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Speaker 1: His dad.

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Speaker 2: Brother was hung on a tree in the South and

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Speaker 2: he just never Malcolm had to sneak to practice. That

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Speaker 2: just never agreed with him, you know, he just didn't

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Speaker 2: want him on the team. He was just like, I

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Speaker 2: don't trust the space, right, I don't trust the space.

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Speaker 2: And so we had to recruit other kids, right. So

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Speaker 2: we were always at the same time in the constant state,

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Speaker 2: me and Alvin and the constant state of rebuilding. And

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Speaker 2: then we got more competitive and we got a new

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Speaker 2: coach and we got faster, but I think at the

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Speaker 2: same time, performance wise, not only preparing to be good,

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Speaker 2: it was real hard at the same time that we

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Speaker 2: still had to go back home and we're losing friends,

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Speaker 2: and we still have to worry about stuff at school.

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Speaker 2: We had to still worry about the mental peace. And

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Speaker 2: oh my god, my cousin got shot. They oh Alvin.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, Man, my cousin just got killed. I can't

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Speaker 2: go to practice this week, guys, like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I got to help my mom work. I got to

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Speaker 2: miss practice this week. You know, I got a babysit.

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Speaker 2: My mom got to work with double. We had a

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Speaker 2: lot of that to deal with. We were act we

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Speaker 2: were strong, but we had a lot.

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Speaker 1: To deal with. Once again, not the same reality as

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Speaker 1: your competition. So what do you do after you graduate

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Speaker 1: high school?

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Speaker 2: Man, I graduated high school. I've dedicated a year in

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Speaker 2: my life to full time service with the Mara Corps.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do more. I wanted to dedicate you

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Speaker 2: in my life to my community. And I learned that

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Speaker 2: from just like there was one rule that coach Victor,

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Speaker 2: he was the black guy. He had. He said, leave

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Speaker 2: the pole house better than you found it. And he

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Speaker 2: said that when I was the captain. I became the

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Speaker 2: captain of the team.

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Speaker 1: By the way, football coaches said that about the locker room.

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Speaker 1: So leave the locker room better than you found it.

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Speaker 1: Don't believe your yes. Yes? And I used to stand

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Speaker 1: another very valuable left.

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Speaker 2: Yes. I used to step over it all the time.

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Speaker 2: I step over He said, no, you leave the bow

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Speaker 2: house better than you found it, even if you didn't

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Speaker 2: make the mess. And I would say, well, how does

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Speaker 2: that teach responsibility to the person who was here before us?

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Speaker 2: He was like, in our poll house, you leave it

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Speaker 2: better than you found it, even if we didn't make

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Speaker 2: the mess, because it makes it easier for the next group.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, yo, you'll get it. And what I learned.

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Speaker 2: It's like man like, some people will say, I have

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with what those black kids were doing,

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Speaker 2: you know when the cops beat them up. Oh, I

251
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Speaker 2: had nothing to do with what happened in the South

252
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Speaker 2: two hundred years ago. You know. I have nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with kids who have mental health issues. I have

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Speaker 2: my own kids to worry about. We step over it.

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Speaker 2: But we benefit from this country, and so we can

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Speaker 2: leave it better than we found it, even if we

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Speaker 2: didn't make the mess. It makes it easier for the

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Speaker 2: next generation.

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Speaker 1: All right, that's awesome. Say it again.

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Speaker 2: If we can leave this country, our community this world

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Speaker 2: better than we found it. Even if we didn't make

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Speaker 2: the mess. It makes it easier for the next generation.

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Speaker 1: Do you love this country?

264
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Speaker 2: I love this country.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel when you watch people kneel during

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Speaker 1: the national anthem as a black man?

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Speaker 2: As a black man, I understand because this country. I

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Speaker 2: love this country.

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Speaker 1: But that's disrespectful.

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Speaker 2: It's not disrespectful to me. Here's why, because, oh.

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Speaker 1: But it is disrespectful because everybody says it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: talk to me about it. Talk talk to me about it.

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Speaker 1: I want you to explain it to me.

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Speaker 2: I want you I explained it this way. It's a

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Speaker 2: little bit of what I said earlier. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I would have thought this way if I didn't

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Speaker 2: have the interaction with the kids that became my friends,

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Speaker 2: the white private school kids. The moment that I was

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Speaker 2: walking from the boat house in the white neighborhood with

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Speaker 2: my friends and the cops came and they looked at me,

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Speaker 2: opened my book back and they emptied. I was like,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing in this neighborhood. They used to

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Speaker 2: happen to me all the time in my neighborhood, and

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Speaker 2: I would say to myself, okay, because it's a bad neighborhood,

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Speaker 2: it said, challenging, challenging neighborhood. So of course, like they're

286
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Speaker 2: going to look through my stuff because people got guns.

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Speaker 2: I didn't think about that as a kid. And then

288
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Speaker 2: when I was in this good neighborhood, what it was,

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Speaker 2: no violence, it still happened to me. And that's when

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00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 2: again I said to myself, like man, like I volunteer.

291
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 2: I'm the captain of my team. I passed the Constitution test,

292
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,960
Speaker 2: I know the Declaration of Independence, I know the Preamble.

293
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 2: I've never been since spendings for school, never got in trouble.

294
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Speaker 2: And then when I ask my friends did this happen

295
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 2: to them, the white private school kids, they said, it

296
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Speaker 2: have never happened. And I realized, I said, you know,

297
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 2: I went to a baseball game and I sung the

298
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:17,360
Speaker 2: national anthems with goosebumps in my arms. And when I

299
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 2: ask other people who don't look like me that they

300
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 2: didn't experience what I experienced with who I consider an

301
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,880
Speaker 2: American hero, it made me feel like I was living

302
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 2: in a certificant in America. And it doesn't mean that

303
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,920
Speaker 2: people who grew up like me are disrespecting it. We're

304
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 2: trying to help people don't understand.

305
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 1: So who is your American hero?

306
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 2: My American hero is it's the grandma's, it's the pastors,

307
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 2: it's the educators, it's the normal people who are trying

308
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,680
Speaker 2: to just leave the boat house better than they found.

309
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Speaker 1: It is George Washington worthy of our price?

310
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Speaker 2: I don't look at it. I don't. I don't know

311
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 2: if I like it that way.

312
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Speaker 1: I without them, we don't have a country.

313
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:07,440
Speaker 2: We don't.

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Speaker 1: He also owned slaves. Yep, it was also two hundred

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Speaker 1: and whatever sixty years ago. How do we how do

316
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 1: we balance that from a from a black dude from

317
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Speaker 1: the West side of Chicago that admittedly made friends with

318
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,359
Speaker 1: white kids from the nice part of town. You have

319
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:40,680
Speaker 1: a very unique perspective. Yeah, so I think that. I

320
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 1: will tell you so many especially in the South, but

321
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 1: so many white folks. Again it's it's it's like the

322
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 1: it's like the white privileged thing. They do want to understand,

323
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,719
Speaker 1: but they also are very off put by the degredation

324
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Speaker 1: of people that we see as founding fathers because two

325
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,520
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years ago they were slave owners. And

326
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 1: people have a hard time balancing, you know, how do

327
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:23,800
Speaker 1: I check myself and learn and be real and become

328
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,399
Speaker 1: present and cognizant with the reality of the plight of

329
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 1: a lot of black folks from inner cities, but also

330
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:41,879
Speaker 1: not not allow what I do believe a positive heritage

331
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 1: from the people who found our country left us. How

332
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:47,200
Speaker 1: do I balance it?

333
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 2: It's a hard balance, you know. And to be honest,

334
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 2: I think I'm still working on that. But Rowan and

335
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 2: people may disagree agree with me, like Rowan taught me,

336
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 2: you know, and rowing you row forward by looking in

337
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 2: the opposite direction. That is so I learned that it's

338
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 2: okay to look back as long as you keep pushing forward.

339
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 2: It's been a trouble pass, you know. And it's o

340
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:27,199
Speaker 2: Kate acknowledge that these things happen, and there are generations

341
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 2: of trauma because some of it. But you have to

342
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 2: keep pushing forward.

343
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 1: So AmeriCorps for two years. That's cool. But I read you, Uh,

344
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 1: you learned to cook a little bit somewhere. Where'd you

345
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: where'd you go? You went to culinary school or something? Wrong? Yeah?

346
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 2: I went to look corder on blue and where I

347
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 2: started off in Chicago and then raised a little bit

348
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 2: of money to take some lessons at the QUARTERA on

349
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 2: Blue England, which was amazing. And London, London, England, that's.

350
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 1: One of my favorite cities. Oh that's such a good London.

351
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: So you you you went to culinary school in London.

352
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the way you do.

353
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 1: You dreamed to see Sears Tower five blocks away and

354
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: now you're cooking.

355
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 2: Well, I have to tell you this, and I think,

356
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's awesome to have, like great like

357
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 2: those entrepreneurship classes really helped. But clonary was introduced to

358
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 2: our high school for anyone who wants allowed to cook.

359
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 2: But I only went because you know, we didn't have

360
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 2: a ton of food. So I was like, yeah, yeah,

361
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 2: you get to eat what you cook. So and I

362
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 2: realized I was really good at it. And I was

363
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 2: like volunteering on the weekends and not only volunteering on

364
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 2: on the weekends, like the Hilton O'Hare, Like our teacher

365
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 2: really hooked use with some really great internships and so

366
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,959
Speaker 2: I was rolling and doing some internships and racing too

367
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 2: and doing a lot. And then when I went to

368
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: the Quarter and Blue, I was like, man, I got

369
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 2: how do I pay for this? And I was like,

370
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 2: can I need a plan? You know? And and what

371
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 2: I decided to do is I got a job at

372
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 2: the Starbucks in Little Italy, which is one of the

373
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 2: wealthiest neighborhoods in Chicago. And that's what all the men

374
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: goes into, you know, lawyers, doctors, everyone. And so I'm

375
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 2: there and I'm meeting all these folks and I'm like, hey,

376
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 2: my name is Roche. Every now and then, my coffee's

377
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: on you. And they said, oh, if you ever need

378
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 2: a dentist.

379
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: I got you.

380
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: If you need a doctor, I got you. If you

381
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 2: need a lawyer, I got you. And I was like, yeah, yeah,

382
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 2: how's your family doing? And so I went up. I

383
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 2: went to this restaurant called Blackbird. It's a French restaurant.

384
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 2: I talk about it in my book, and I said,

385
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,439
Speaker 2: can I work? You know, chef Paul Kahn just won

386
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 2: the James Spirit Award and I worked for free. Can

387
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 2: actually got me hooked there and he was like yeah.

388
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm just cutting mushrooms, I'm cutting carrots,

389
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 2: simple stuff. Best French restaurant in Chicago. I go to

390
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 2: my school and I asked them to help me make

391
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 2: some business cards and I found five good guys from

392
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 2: my class. I go to Starbucks every day. I make

393
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 2: these cards. I start putting in sleeves of the starbus comings.

394
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 2: That's hilarious and CATERI families, couples and everyone else. And

395
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 2: they say. Everyone was like, you want to cook? You

396
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 2: a good chef. I was like, yeah, I go to

397
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 2: the Quarter Blue and I work at Blackbird. You work

398
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 2: at Blackbird. I didn't tell I was cutting onions for free.

399
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I work at Blackbird. And I started

400
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: getting a lot of business and I was making money

401
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 2: and I was paying these guys at school ten dollars

402
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 2: an hour and I was making some dough and so

403
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 2: that's how I was able to pay for that trip.

404
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 2: And so from there I got a job. And I

405
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 2: say that to say that after the Quarter on Blue,

406
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 2: this guy named Bobby, this guy named Jeff linked me

407
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 2: up with this guy named Bobby. Bobby was head of

408
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 2: hospitality and cooking for the World Wrestling Entertainment WWE with

409
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 2: John Cena, the Rock, all these guys. And he was like,

410
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 2: and I go for a job. I tell him my

411
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: story about intern for free at a sport where there

412
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 2: are no cheerleaders, they're no busload of fans, but it's

413
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 2: rowing the Starbucks story, the BlackBerry story, and he said,

414
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 2: because of what you've done as a sixteen, seventeen, eighteen

415
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 2: eighty year old kid is the reason why you have

416
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 2: the dream job today. And that's what I always tell

417
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 2: young kids. What you do today, what you do now,

418
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 2: matters for your future.

419
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 1: Man, that is a long way from a boiling water

420
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: fot pull of chitlings laying as a long way away.

421
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: So then then you like her cooking? It did where else?

422
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 2: Oh Wanner broa WB So I was doing like cooking

423
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 2: on food sets. Yeah, we're wrestling entertainment the whole thing. Yeah,

424
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 2: I'm doing catering.

425
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: And like, so, I mean, you reaching a dream and

426
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: then you say, you know what, I love this, This

427
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: is great. But I'm called.

428
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 2: That happened during that Chipotle story. When they asked me,

429
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: you got to tell these kids your story you're here,

430
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: I was like no. When I went home that night

431
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: after thinking about that kid, I am not Everyone faces

432
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 2: Goliath in their youth. I didn't deal with my trauma.

433
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 2: I just buried it and I talked about it. Is

434
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: you buried it alive. It's always there when you don't

435
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 2: deal with it. My mom being a drug addict, not

436
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: saying the word dat to day in my life, teacher

437
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 2: telling me I was gonna die before I was eighteen,

438
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: fell in the eighth grade. All that stuff came back

439
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 2: when I went home that night in my swinking New

440
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: York apartment, and I had a moment like when hope

441
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: and the ability to change the world, Like that feeling

442
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 2: that comes upon you is not always present, but when

443
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 2: it's there, how do you take that moment and go

444
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: with it? It was almost like when you was a

445
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: kid at night and you watch a commercial at like

446
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: three o'clock in the morning and it says feet these

447
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: starving kids in Africa, or or be the abused dogs. Yah, yeah, yeah,

448
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 2: and then the numbers in the bottom. He's like, oh

449
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: my god, I gotta do something and do something, and

450
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: then your show comes back on. You start laughing, you

451
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: fall asleep, you wake up, you gotta go to work,

452
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: and you forget about everything that you just saw the

453
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 2: night before, right, And I had those moments every time

454
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: I went to church. So I went to a gallap

455
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 2: I went to an event where I was say, I

456
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 2: gotta do something, and then I got distracted by the

457
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 2: need and I fell asleep on the knee. I forgot

458
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: about it, and I didn't want that to happen, because

459
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: that's your pole. A story just stuck with me, and

460
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: that's when I started writing my first sentence. It didn't

461
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: it didn't start off that way. First sentence of my

462
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 2: mom was a drug addict, and I was like, gosh.

463
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: And that's when I wrote the story of the fan Wow.

464
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: And that's when I started writing my book no On.

465
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: And I get your you know, starting to write the book,

466
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: but you don't have anything. Nobody really knows your story.

467
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: And you start working yourself out of your cooking career

468
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: and into your current I don't know what you would

469
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: call it. I guess nonprofit profit career. I guess, yeah.

470
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: So you know what was? How did you how? And why?

471
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: What precipitated you walking away?

472
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: I call it, like you know, I returned home to

473
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: the place that gave to me. I didn't move back

474
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 2: to Chicago first. I actually started going back, which is

475
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: important to the story. I decided I can. I would

476
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: volunteer with that group at the school it's a charter school,

477
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: and start working with them and giving them the same

478
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: answers that was given to me. And then I went

479
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: to another school called Eastside Community High School, and I

480
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 2: was like, man, these kids need rowing, you know. And

481
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 2: so that's when I was like, I called up up

482
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 2: to and I was like, hey, I want I need

483
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 2: rowing machines. I need to get keep as called up.

484
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: Can I need some rowing machines. I want to teach

485
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: kids how to row. And so I started rowing program

486
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: while still slowly cooking, working my way out of this job.

487
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: And I'm still writing and.

488
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: They started rowing team. You're writing, You're still cooking, so

489
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: you're really transition transition.

490
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: And eventually I stopped cooking because more people was like,

491
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: our Shay come to my school and he's getting paid

492
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 2: like one hundred dollars to speak out of school, one

493
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty dollars. But that was a lot for

494
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: me to just to tell you the story, you know,

495
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 2: and people start hearing. And then someone said, hey, I

496
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 2: want you to speak at the US Rowing Convention, and

497
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 2: that's when I exploded. People are like, oh my god,

498
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: this dude got a story, like you got to come

499
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 2: to my bow house and help me, help me bring

500
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 2: people together. We are a programm in a white community,

501
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: but we need to we want to engage the black community.

502
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: How do we do?

503
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: How do we do? How do we go in there?

504
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: What do we do?

505
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: You know? And and so I started helping in that area,

506
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: and then I'm writing my book at the same time.

507
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: And it's good because I forgot a lot of the

508
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: water terms and so being around that it helped me

509
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: to write.

510
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: Again. That's interesting because probably as you're writing, you're reliving.

511
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: You're reliving, and as you're teaching, it's helping your writing. Yes,

512
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the whole thing is kind of organically marinating.

513
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: Yep, marinating. And I finished the book. I shop it

514
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 2: to eight editors and publishers. They all said, no, you

515
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: didn't win gold, didn't win a championship, You're not a writer,

516
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: and that a lot of no's, And so I was like,

517
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to self publish it. I'm going to hustle.

518
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: I was a hustlers, a self.

519
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: Published Yeah, it's the same guy that was putting business

520
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: cards inside the I have no doubt that you were

521
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: going to hustle it up.

522
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: And so I'm dropping books off everywhere, Meilon books to everyone,

523
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: books in the Olympics, like sending the books to schools.

524
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah, and I'm getting all these calls we

525
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: love your story, we love your story, we love your story.

526
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: And they got into the hands of Mary Mazio, filmmaker

527
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: Olympic Rower, who said, I want to turn this book

528
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: into a documentary. My friend Gret Hill, I want to

529
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: bring them in as a producer, and Gret Hill got

530
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: Dwayne Wade and they got calm and involved, and the

531
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: buzz was picking up. Or Shade not only wrote this

532
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: self published book and during this film, but he's doing

533
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: work with kids who grew up just like he did.

534
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: And the kids are going to college and they'll come speak.

535
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: That's when the big publishing house, Macmillan, was like, we

536
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: read your story, we want to do it. We want

537
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: your book, and we want to get it out to

538
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: a broader audience. And they did, and I started seeing

539
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: the people the books are winning awards, and I saw

540
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: the people who I pitched the book for retweeting. And

541
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: so from there the film got out and people loved it.

542
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,959
Speaker 2: It was amazing, It changed lives. He brought in more

543
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: money to help the foundation, which gave.

544
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: You now the platform, gave you actually work.

545
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: The found nine cities later and good news this year

546
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: our Shae Cooper will be going to South Africa and

547
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: the Bahamas to help launch a new Prime program.

548
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: That is so cool, that is fantastic. We'll be right back. Incredibly.

549
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: Archey's book, A Most Beautiful Thing was then turned into

550
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: a great documentary by Dwayne Wade, Grant Hill, and Common,

551
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: and he and his high school crew members did something

552
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: pretty unusual during the filming. You guys have a uh

553
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: have a reunion road and uh and if I get

554
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: this right up, will let you tell, but I'll just

555
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: lead it in. I think one of your teammates had

556
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: an ankle monitor or the other jail and the cops

557
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: were not part of their reality. And then you and

558
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: your brilliant bright by decided, Yeah, let's row with cops.

559
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: Talk about it. It's so cool.

560
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, while we was filming, there was two

561
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: things that stuck out to me. First was the mom said,

562
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: there's two fears they have. My black sun interaction in

563
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: a different neighborhood in our community, my son interaction with

564
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: white police. And I was like me, being a person

565
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: who loved to preach, hope and go after things, I said,

566
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 2: what can I do to reduce the fears of my moms.

567
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: I know I'm helping with these communities, but I gotta

568
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: do something about the other fear. And I know that

569
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: there's some things in this world. I learned from Rowing.

570
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: There's some things in this world you won't see unless

571
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: you do it. And I said, I I talked about

572
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: that that quote that Rowin taught me that I can't

573
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: do the work of eight, but I need eight people

574
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: to do the work of one, and we get that

575
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: much faster. In our community, there are black activists working

576
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: with educators, preachers, business owners and grandmothers and politicians. But

577
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: why not the cops because they have to work there

578
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: every single day, seven people pulling the eight. You'll move,

579
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: but you won't. It won't move effectively unless the eight

580
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: is moving. And so and the Costs is one of

581
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: the eight, and they're in our community. And and so

582
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: I told the guys, I was like, listen, I think

583
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: I'm uh want to get cops to Row. And they

584
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: were like, yeah, yeah, we can roll against them. The

585
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: boys can be over here and our people can be

586
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: over there.

587
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: I was like no, no, no, no, no no no.

588
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 2: I said, you know, as a teacher, you will always

589
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: forget some of your students but as a student, you'll

590
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: never forget your teacher, and we have our opportunity to

591
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 2: be a teacher, to teach them something about us, about

592
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: this sport and bring them to the same water where

593
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: we didn't get along at first, where we literally hate

594
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: each other, and somehow it became a place of healing.

595
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: And to be real with you, I made that decision

596
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: based on building the bridge. They made the decision based

597
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: on survival. If we interact with them and they get

598
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: to learn our teenage, known about our teenagers who where

599
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: they hook and sag their pants, but great kids, that

600
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: maybe it will change something for them. And I found

601
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: four white cops and man, it wasn't It was awkward

602
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: at first, it was very awkward. But in order to

603
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: have alignment, you have to readjust the lands. You have

604
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: to be able to talk to each other, and to

605
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: move anywhere in the boat, you have to be moving

606
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: to each other. To move anywhere in this world, you

607
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: have to be moving together. And I told my story

608
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 2: and I wanted to hear their story. But I have

609
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: to say this because it's not in the film, it's

610
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: not in the book, it's not it's not anywhere. There's

611
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 2: a scene where the guys were rolling with their kids.

612
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: Did you know kids how to row? Before that scene?

613
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: After that scene, we was going to do the scene

614
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: with the cops, but the cops came with some of

615
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 2: their kids. And what broke the awkwardness is that when

616
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: the cops kids and the guys kids all got in

617
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: the tanks and they were pulling and they were having

618
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: fun and they were talking and it wasn't a care

619
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: or disconnect in the world, and it was a learning

620
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 2: opportunity for all the adults who have in their heads

621
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: this is the way it's supposed to be. Oh, this

622
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 2: is our brotherhood and NAI's debro. There was none of that.

623
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 3: No, Actually, the kids in the boat is the way

624
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 3: it's supposed to be. Yes, Yes, when the kids in

625
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 3: the boat was the way it's supposed to be, and

626
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: everyone was like, dang, like this is the way it's

627
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 3: supposed to be. Like they taught us, they didn't even know.

628
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 3: And that's when we all got in the boat and

629
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 3: I was coaching. We invited the Olympic coach out and

630
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 3: we started moving together and we had conversations that were

631
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 3: uncomfortable but was amazing, And the most powerful part was

632
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: Alvin who was my best man at the Why and

633
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 3: who was fighting? Who searched four our four years in

634
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 3: jail later on in life because he shot at someone

635
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 3: who beat up his sister, officer Lou. Also, you didn't

636
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 3: even know how to swim. We didn't even know it.

637
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: And he's scared.

638
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 1: And why didn't know how to swim?

639
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 2: He didn't know how to swim?

640
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: You mean you mean you mean that happened? That happened. Well,

641
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: there's another stereotype just destroyed by you.

642
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: Up and I heard Alvin say sits Hall, like I

643
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: got you. Here's this guy who's done four years. There's

644
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 2: this copy in front of him that has a lot

645
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: of fear, and Al's like, dude, I've been here, I

646
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: got you. And ever since that day, the way both

647
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: of them gravitated towards each other was something I have

648
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 2: never seen. This unlikely lifeboat changed these guys life.

649
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: There's a guy in Las Vegas named John Ponder, twenty

650
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: year criminal from Brooklyn who ended up finally going to

651
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: the federal PENITENTIARYA because he robbed a bunch of banks

652
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: and through a long series of circumstances and what he

653
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: would tell you or blessings, he's come out, and he

654
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: started a re entry program. And the recidivism rate that

655
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: his organization experiences is like ten percent against a national

656
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: average of somewhere around eighty percent. Those numbers are close,

657
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: but the point is unbelievable successful. And you know what

658
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: his success he attributes to is that the returning citizens

659
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: from jail that are paroles are, like lots of these organizations,

660
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: work life skills, learn how to do internet and email,

661
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: and learn how to get a job and go on

662
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: an interview. The difference with his is each one of

663
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: those guys are matched with a Las Vegas Police Department

664
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 1: man or woman at THEI whatever. And what John said

665
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: that I've never forgotten to me is what happens is

666
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: the cop starts seeing the convicts without the orange jumpsuit on,

667
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: and the convict start seeing the cops without the badge on.

668
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: And when the jumpsuit and the badge is erased, all

669
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: you have are two people. And I gotta believe when

670
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: Alvin and the cops and the whole mixed up crew

671
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: was going on, the cops weren't didn't have a gun

672
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 1: or badge on, right, and through rowing, they got to

673
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: just see each other's human beings.

674
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: And that's what Macco said in the film. He said,

675
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: once they got on those uniforms, you know it was cool.

676
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: They go back home to families and wives and kids,

677
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 2: and they human beings and they saw us the same.

678
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: And I would say the most powerful moment they have

679
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: volunteered with me. They helped me bring growing back to

680
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: the high school. I was in California and they showed

681
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: up to help. I was just at Northwestern University and

682
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: the other showed up to help like they've been there.

683
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: But the most powerful moment is that we filmed this

684
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen twenty when George Floyd was murdered. We

685
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: have this group chat because we all chatted all the time.

686
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: You mean the road, your rogue guy and the cops, because.

687
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: We raced together, because we won team We have one

688
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 2: eight we raced together goes to the neighborhood. And the

689
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 2: beauty of that when we raced together in July to

690
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 2: have a tent of like their colleagues and their kids

691
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: and all boys from the neighborhood and and and all

692
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: together and cheering us on. And then you hear the

693
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 2: guys from neighborhood tell the cause, say this is my son,

694
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 2: like he's so good man. Sometimes you have bad days,

695
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: but he's great, like, you know, the it was just

696
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: just cool.

697
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: It was cool.

698
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: And he was making jokes like, hey, the cops get

699
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: one the guys, Hey, where does why?

700
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: I know you always wear white?

701
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: Started. It was all these jokes, right, and.

702
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: Like, but that's when race doesn't matten, when you can

703
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: joke about it with it really doesn't.

704
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was It was awesome. The powerful moment was

705
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: George Floyd was murdered and I started messaging with the guys,

706
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 2: and right George Froy's murdered, we did a top a

707
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 2: a segment on the Today Show and with those guys,

708
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 2: and one of the cops said, he said, when George

709
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 2: Floyd was murdered, I was working downtown on the protest

710
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: and had a ton of bricks thrown at me. And

711
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: he said, I realized that day, through our relationship, that

712
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: I can go home and take my uniform off, but

713
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: you can never take your black skin off. And I said,

714
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 2: thank you for saying that. How do you have that

715
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: conversation with your colleagues? And that opened the door for

716
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 2: some really courageous conversations with us, and that was always

717
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: a turning point in a good way, because we always

718
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: had a mission. One mission of mine is to keep

719
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 2: kids safe, both of us, both groups. And there was

720
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: times of like, well you need to see this is

721
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 2: the way I see. You don't understand when the grandma

722
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: calls and say he has a blue sweater. You see

723
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: your kid's a blue sweater, and grandma got robbed and

724
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: grandma got hurt. We have to make a decision to

725
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 2: take all three, you know what I mean, Like you're

726
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 2: helping us to understand, but also telling them, hey man,

727
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: Alvin joined the game because he had to help others,

728
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 2: and they were like, oh my god. He didn't make

729
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: bad choices. He made tough choices, Like the conversations were

730
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: conversations that I can't have at a protest. But once

731
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: I invited him to my boat, my barbecue because they

732
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: work in our neighborhood eight hours a day and they

733
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: need to learn our names, and I want them to

734
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: hear my story and I want to hear their story.

735
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 2: That's when we started to connect. So the way you

736
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 2: mean when you're just human beings, we just human beings.

737
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 2: And so the mistake we make in our country is

738
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: that we do too much calling out and no calling in.

739
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: And you yeah, you you.

740
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 2: But it reminds me of Valvin. If I would have

741
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 2: saw him the first time it was like, hey, you

742
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 2: don't need to be on this team, he would have

743
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: socked me in a jaw. But I called him in.

744
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 2: I set next him on the boat. I sat next

745
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: to him on the machine, and I said in my book,

746
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 2: what I loved about Ken, our coached is Jewish guy,

747
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 2: University of Pennsylvania. What he done differently is that my

748
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 2: relationship in school with security guards or teachers that I

749
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: only heard from them when I was doing wrong, talking

750
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 2: at me, and then when I had a bad day,

751
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 2: they was like, tell me, what's the problem, what's going

752
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 2: on at home? I'm not telling you right. But Ken

753
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: made deposits. When you go to a bank and make

754
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: a deposit, you can't get it. You know, you get

755
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: a withdrawal, but you can't get a withdraw if you

756
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 2: don't make deposits. And so when you have coaches and

757
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 2: people making deposits in your life, and when you ask

758
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 2: what's the problem, you will always get a withdrawal. And

759
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: so I learned to call in. I learned to make

760
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: deposits in cops light. So when I say, hey, man,

761
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: tell me about George Floyd, I always get withdrawal because

762
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 2: I'm making deposits.

763
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: We'll be right back if we're ever going to ail.

764
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: So much of what divides us as a country, which

765
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: is not just racial, it's racial, it's political, it's faith based,

766
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: it's abortion, it's all of it, right, But what scares

767
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: me so much is that wokeness cancel culture and political correctness.

768
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: It makes us really afraid to be willing to talk

769
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: because I might say something that is a talking point

770
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: for one group or another, and then you automatically sum

771
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: me up and assume you know exactly who I am,

772
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: what I think, where I'm from, and I what's you know?

773
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 1: And in tool we break down those barriers and talk

774
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: like white cops and black row people? What a what

775
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 1: a row people called oxman or something?

776
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

777
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: There it is row people, right. But what I'm saying

778
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: is is that is that I'm so I am so

779
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: anti cancel culture, woke this political that not because I

780
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: don't think there's a need for us to watch our

781
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: tongues and how we approach one another, because we do,

782
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: but because I think with the pendulum has swung so

783
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 1: far in our culture now that it is prohibiting people

784
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: that aren't just like each other from simple having simply

785
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: having real civil conversations about stuff that matters. And without that,

786
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: we're never going to be able to learn the humanity

787
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: about one another and grow. And your story illustrates that

788
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: when those barriers are removed, the phenomenal growth that can

789
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: take place. So what are you doing now? Man?

790
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:33,439
Speaker 2: I have a national foundation what's it called a Most

791
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: Beautiful Thing inclusion fun In the last year and a half,

792
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: we introduced two thousand kids of colors of this what

793
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 2: if rowing in what cities and Baltimore, DC, Chicago, Newburgh,

794
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 2: New York, Waco, Texas, Stockton, California, Philadelphia, Newark, New Jersey.

795
00:45:53,719 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 1: Y'all going to screw up Rowland. Y'all go into y'all

796
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: gonna end up making rowing look a whole lot different.

797
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was it's good. You know, someone

798
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 2: told me in the interview, they say, so our share,

799
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 2: it's amazing, you're changing the face of rowing, And I

800
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: was like, you know what. I what I told them

801
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 2: is like, you know what, though I don't want to

802
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: change the face of rowing, I want to add new

803
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 2: faces to rowing and beautiful. It's a beautiful thing because

804
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: the history of sports have told us.

805
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: That you're the Serena Williams of rowing. Man Man, and

806
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, I A.

807
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 2: I don't want to do so much more when I

808
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: roll in my neighborhood Bill, just like when people watch

809
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: your yeah you know, or where I grew up. I

810
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 2: don't want people to say that's the author, that's the chef,

811
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: or that's the rower.

812
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: You also don't want to be the black rower. Yeah, no,

813
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: you don't want to do that.

814
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I want people to say, you know what,

815
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 2: that dude, that's the hope for my community, that's the

816
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 2: hope for our kids. When I think of some of

817
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 2: the greatest leaders like MLK, I don't think about his

818
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: career as an educated preacher, but I think about the

819
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 2: hope that he runs in his country. And I think

820
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: about Harriet Tubman. I don't think about a career as

821
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 2: a union spy, but the freedom that she brung to

822
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: so many people who look like me or even Gandhi.

823
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: I don't say, oh, the attorney, but the piece that

824
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 2: he brought to so many villages.

825
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question, I hear what you're

826
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: what you're saying, and I think it's cool and you

827
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: and you evoked Harriet Tubman and MLK and Gandhi all

828
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: people that are black and brown. Can you evoke a

829
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: would you, in just natural conversation evoke a white hero?

830
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say about the Teresa. I was

831
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 2: gonna say about the Teresa next.

832
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 1: All right, what about it? What about a white male? Yeah?

833
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely, man. I mean I think that you hit the

834
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 2: are in white savior, right. I think that we all

835
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 2: have the ability to be heroes. And I think that

836
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: Ken was a hero and can now part that's the

837
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 2: guy who team Bob Mouseikowski who started a baseball team program.

838
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: They were heroes. I think that sometimes where it gets

839
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 2: people should never take away the work that the work

840
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: and the love that a white man had brung to

841
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: a neighborhood of folks who don't look like him. I

842
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: think what people, well the right people will say, well,

843
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: I've been doing this in this neighborhood and I don't

844
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 2: get the media attention that that person got because it's different,

845
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: and it's ways to address that. But we should also

846
00:48:54,760 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: take away the work that Can and other men like

847
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: you have done and at at the moments, I lost

848
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: sight of that. But it changed when I spoke to

849
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 2: Seattle scholars and this white dude said, I have this

850
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: was recent. I have sixty white men on my team,

851
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: and I'm working to change that. But forty of these

852
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,720
Speaker 2: guys said they're here because of r Sha Cooper.

853
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: Okay, what that is perfect, And what I'm getting to

854
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: is you naturally evoked heroes. And you said m O.

855
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: King and U Joundee and yeah, all right, And I

856
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: think if I'm sitting asking a white guy, he's gonna say,

857
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: fix some white people. It's just natural, right, I mean,

858
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: if a white dude, yeah, I mean maybe it's I

859
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: don't know. If it's baseball, it's Babe Ruth. Yeah. Who

860
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: would be your hero in baseball?

861
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jackie Robinson?

862
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: Right, Okay. If it's football, maybe Joe Montana. Who's yours?

863
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Well you know that's for me. It's a

864
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 2: Chicago guys.

865
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: I was going to say, I was thinking's Walter.

866
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna yeah, Yeah, it's somebody O waltsa

867
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 2: Paytony why not?

868
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: Why not man? Why not buckets? Yeah?

869
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: He loved the film, by the way.

870
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: Okay, but you see my point.

871
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 2: I see your point.

872
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: You know where we got to get where white people

873
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: and black people don't even consider race when they think

874
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: about their heroes. But we don't get there until we

875
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: can have the conversations. And we don't get there until

876
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 1: people are not surprised when they see black kids rowing.

877
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah wow wow.

878
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: And you're part of that solution. Your life is part

879
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: of that solution. I mean what Baltimore, DC, all that stuff.

880
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that is just so cool. But we can't

881
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: get there unless we can talk and figure out each

882
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 1: other's humanity.

883
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 2: Right right, I have to say this last thing. I mean,

884
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 2: if whatever, I won't know how much time we have.

885
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 2: I got a call from a library and he said,

886
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 2: we bought three hundred books we donated to a school

887
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: and the school has just seen your movie Ourshae Cooper.

888
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 2: You need to come here, beautiful. I said, okay, okay,

889
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,479
Speaker 2: this was going six months ago. I said okay, okay,

890
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 2: and they said, no, we need you to come. I said, okay,

891
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: where where do I need to come? They said, Alliance, Ohio.

892
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 2: Where Alliance, Ohio.

893
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: I was like, that's got to be in the middle

894
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: of note.

895
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 2: I was like, where is that? And they said, you

896
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: got to fly to Pittsburgh and drive an hour and

897
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: a half into Alliance, Ohio. Fly to Pittsburgh, pick up

898
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: my buddy Matt. From Pittsburgh. We drive to Alliance Ohigh

899
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: five minutes left in the GPS, and it's Confederate flex everywhere.

900
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,959
Speaker 2: I'm like where, man, I go to a U turn,

901
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 2: you know, and so you know, I go into the

902
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: school and I'm thinking.

903
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: Of my head driving school, thinking do these folks look

904
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: like I know, you know what?

905
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: When he said I need you, they need you, I

906
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: was thinking in my head that they were kids who

907
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 2: looked like me. Because he's like, oh, they.

908
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: Got to you know, they got to meet I know

909
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 1: where you're going. Yeah.

910
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I walk into the school, don't see a

911
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: kid that looks like me, but they would cheer me

912
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 2: on like I was Lebron James.

913
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: Man. Was it as white as your high school was black?

914
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 2: Yes?

915
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 1: That white? Yes? Like white white white?

916
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: I mean like white kids have never heard of rowing

917
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 2: white And they were.

918
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: Like white kids never heard about country.

919
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 2: Country man and the first kid. I have these kids

920
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 2: messages on my phone from Instagram because they have the

921
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: best messages I've ever seend. I've received so many amazing messages.

922
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: The first kid stood up and said, Bill, thank you

923
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 2: for your story because I have unlearned everything that my

924
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: parents taught me about people who look like you. I

925
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 2: couldn't even finish the rest. Man, I was like, the

926
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: teachers will tell you. I stood back, like I couldn't

927
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: even answer other questions because I couldn't get past that.

928
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 2: That's when I knew I was making an impact when

929
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 2: I see kids who look like me and said, Hey,

930
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 2: you spoke at my school three years ago. Now I'm

931
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 2: ruining at cal Berkeley.

932
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: You know.

933
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 2: Now I'm ruining at this college. Like I knew, but

934
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 2: I didn't really understand it until like this kid who

935
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 2: walked into the boat house was like, I mean there's launcher.

936
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 2: Was like, I'm not doing that's no one looked like me, Like.

937
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 2: I just didn't understand until that day that man, like, Wow,

938
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: when you act being on yourself your career, man, like,

939
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 2: true change happens, you know what I mean? And man,

940
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 2: it's I realize at the same time that the hope

941
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,720
Speaker 2: I was given because we all have kept I've received

942
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 2: hope at some point in our lives. The problem is

943
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 2: that we keep it. It was never minded to keep,

944
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: but to also give. And I realized it's all about

945
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 2: the hope you give.

946
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 1: From stepping over pools of blood running from gunshots that

947
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: was so monotonous that it was no more noticeable than

948
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: the clicking of a fan in his apartment all the

949
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: way to Rule, Ohio, where a white kid thanks you

950
00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: for changing his perspective of people that look like you

951
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 1: income from places like you learned all from the bottom

952
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: of a boat. What a story, bro, And you're still involved, Yeah,

953
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: not quitting. Let me ask something. Somebody wants to start

954
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 1: a row team in their city. Can they call on you?

955
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 2: They can call on me. We're ready to find you. Hey,

956
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 2: they can find me rsha Cooper dot com. My email

957
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 2: is there, our work, our articles on what we've done,

958
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: and we'll come with our team. We'll check it out

959
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 2: and then we'll introduce them to wellness.

960
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: What if somebody wants you to come speak to their

961
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: organization and tell them about that same.

962
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 2: Thing, same thing? Hit me up. My email is there.

963
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 2: I always respond and I love to come speak.

964
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: My brother. I can't thank you enough for joining me

965
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: today and sharing your story and your wisdom. And you

966
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: know there's some questions I asked with specific intent, and

967
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 1: some things I said that I really just trying to

968
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: get the listeners to to think a little deeper and

969
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: maybe a little different about some of the realities of

970
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: our world. But you're a hero man, and you are

971
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: just a normal guy who's done extraordinary things. And I

972
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: know you're an inspiration to a lot of people, but

973
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: you're an inspiration to me because if there's more normal

974
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,479
Speaker 1: folks like you in this world, just filling the needs

975
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: in our communities, we can fix a lot of what

976
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: else is an army of you would change everything. And

977
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 1: I just I can't thank you enough, and I can't

978
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: tell you out how much I've enjoyed being with you.

979
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 2: Thank you too. And I have to say that I

980
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 2: didn't know many years ago, when I was sitting in

981
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 2: my couch watching the trailer to Undefeated, that I'll be

982
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:55,240
Speaker 2: sitting here across from you well dreams of still being eliminated.

983
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: We're both dudes and never expected to be here. Through

984
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 1: God's grace, we are and hopefully some people got some

985
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: inspiration from conversation. Thank you, thank you, and thank you

986
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: for joining us this week. If our Shay or another

987
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: guest has inspired you in general or better yet to

988
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: take action. Please let us know how I'd love to

989
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: hear about it. You can write me anytime at Bill

990
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: at normalfolks dot us. And if you enjoyed this episode,

991
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast, rate it and review it, share

992
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: it with friends and on social The things that will

993
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: help grow an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.

994
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week.