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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and you're listening the stuff mom

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Speaker 1: never told you. And on today's show, we're dealing with

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Speaker 1: the topic you might have a little bit of firsthand

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Speaker 1: info about, and that is Bush. No, not our former president.

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Speaker 1: We're talking hubic hair. That's right, Buckle up. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: be even more interesting, I think than if we were

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Speaker 1: to do a podcast on George Bush, George H. W. Bush,

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Speaker 1: both of the Bush, any of them were talking about

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Speaker 1: a lot of different Bush to Bush in general, Sophia, George,

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Speaker 1: all of them, all the Bushes. Um, So this is

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Speaker 1: the topic that I have a lot of personal connection to. Uh,

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Speaker 1: if you've ever seen me in a tank top, you

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Speaker 1: probably already know the drill. I don't really do a

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Speaker 1: lot of body hair grooming, and I don't feel the

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Speaker 1: need to apologize for that. Was that always the case

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Speaker 1: for um? Yeah, It's interesting because a lot of people

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Speaker 1: assume that I don't do a lot of body hair

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Speaker 1: grooming because I'm a super ultra mega radical feminist. And

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Speaker 1: I actually let them think this. So when people are like, man,

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Speaker 1: you and those hairy armpits, you're such a radical feminist,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I know, I really, I really am. I

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Speaker 1: feel like this is a continuation of the question is

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Speaker 1: my hair a feminist statement? It is. This is like

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Speaker 1: a part two of that episode of Ways body Hair Edition,

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Speaker 1: Body Hair Edition. So we're talking about body hair down

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Speaker 1: there and armpits, leg hair, you name it, you name it.

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Speaker 1: And I think, for myself my body hair choices, I

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Speaker 1: actually don't think of them as like political feminist choices.

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Speaker 1: I oftentimes let people think that if it makes me

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Speaker 1: seem cooler, but in actuality, I'm pretty lazy. Um. I

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Speaker 1: have very sensitive skin. I grew up in a household

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Speaker 1: where shaving just wasn't a huge part of the culture.

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Speaker 1: Like my mom used to tell me that dark skin,

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Speaker 1: you don't need to shave your body hair, and I

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Speaker 1: just sort of took that as fact. I said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's one of those rules of life that I'm that

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Speaker 1: I will absorb and make my own stuff your black mom. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I love it. Um. And Also I went to you know,

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Speaker 1: I went to all girls high school where leg shaving

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Speaker 1: and really just general hygiene was not a huge part

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Speaker 1: of our day to day as we talked about on

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Speaker 1: the school uniform exactly exactly, So all of those things

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Speaker 1: kind of added up. And also I think I once

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Speaker 1: thought about it. My thought, Gee, if I'm not that

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Speaker 1: into shaving my arm pit, shading my legs, all of that,

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Speaker 1: If it takes maybe ten minutes to do it and

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Speaker 1: you do it every other day, that actually adds up.

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Speaker 1: It's like, what a lot of time hour a week.

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Speaker 1: I think about that every time I do my makeup,

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Speaker 1: because how much time do you spend on it? Because

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Speaker 1: like a lot of these personal grooming choices, you have

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Speaker 1: to weigh the cost of the time you spend grooming

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Speaker 1: yourself with you could be doing otherwise, how you could

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Speaker 1: be learning or growing or growing your network or something

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Speaker 1: in some other capacity, anything you could be doing with

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Speaker 1: your time. But I feel like this issue, just like makeup,

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Speaker 1: comes down to personal preference. When is it empowering versus

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Speaker 1: one is it patriarchy? Absolutely could not agree more. For me,

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Speaker 1: it was like, oh am I going to spend an

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Speaker 1: hour a week to basically give myself a rash no

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Speaker 1: thank you because my skin is very sensitive. But I

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Speaker 1: actually have a lot of friends who for them like

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Speaker 1: their makeup time in the morning. That is their favorite

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Speaker 1: part of the day when they do where they can

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Speaker 1: really express themselves. And all of that. And so if

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Speaker 1: it's worth it for you, if you're like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: personal grooming thing, this hour a day it takes me

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Speaker 1: actually makes me happy or fulfills me in some way,

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Speaker 1: I should go for it. But I do think it's

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Speaker 1: like it comes down to where you personally draw that line.

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Speaker 1: I don't think society should be the thing that tells

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Speaker 1: you know, you need to spend an hour a day

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Speaker 1: shaving your legs doing your makeup. If that doesn't drive

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Speaker 1: with what you want to actually be doing. It's sort

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Speaker 1: of like who are you performing for? Right? And I

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Speaker 1: only use makeup as an example here, knowing it's very

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Speaker 1: different than body hair. But I also sometimes feel like

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Speaker 1: if I'm feeling very sick, for instance, versus if Brad

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Speaker 1: the Booze feeling very sick and looking terrible, I can

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Speaker 1: put makeup all over my face and I can pretend

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Speaker 1: like I'm not looking and feeling terrible, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. I almost think of it as, oh, I

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Speaker 1: can I can play with this stereotype is double standard

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Speaker 1: and make it work for me. And when with body hair,

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Speaker 1: tell me there was a time when someone said something

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Speaker 1: to you like WHOA you don't shave. We're did like,

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Speaker 1: you must have gotten some shade at some point in

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Speaker 1: your life when when people pushed back on your personal choice. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have. That's that's real. Actually, in just preparing for

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Speaker 1: this episode, I was sitting in my favorite bar, red Derby,

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Speaker 1: typing away on my laptop and some chatty guy is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: what are you working on? Like doing work in a bar?

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Speaker 1: What you got there? And I said, oh, I'm researching

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Speaker 1: for a podcast. And he said what's your podcast episode

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Speaker 1: going to be about? And I said women and body hair.

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Speaker 1: And in our conversation he basically revealed, oh, this was

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Speaker 1: someone who I think was flirting with me. Just to

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Speaker 1: be like clear in this conversation, he was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: if I saw a girl who didn't shave, I would

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Speaker 1: never date her. And I was wearing like a turtle

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Speaker 1: mac and jeans, so I was like, oh, a little

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Speaker 1: does he know under this turtleneck, I'm very hair. What

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Speaker 1: do you think you were preparing to podcast about? Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, what's great, ladies, let's all shave everything all

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Speaker 1: the time. Just to align with this one dude's expectation, Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean you think you're going to keep talking about

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Speaker 1: exactly that I've at other times, particularly when I'm wearing

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Speaker 1: tank tops, where I'll lift my arms and I can

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Speaker 1: Usually people don't say anything, but I've seen people. You've

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Speaker 1: seen the I dart. Yeah, I've seen people see it.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of times when it's men, they don't

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Speaker 1: know how to respond. They're like, I saw a hair

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Speaker 1: on a nern armpit. Oh my god. Their eyes go

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Speaker 1: they get very wide eyes. He's like, don't say anything,

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Speaker 1: don't say anything, don't say I can tell they're trying

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Speaker 1: not to look and they're trying not to think about it,

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Speaker 1: but they definitely are women. Women amount of times will say,

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Speaker 1: oh cool, you don't shave your pit. I've actually been

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Speaker 1: complimented on my arm put hair by women. That's so funny.

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Speaker 1: So last summer I spent just about a month up

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Speaker 1: on Brad's family farm, which is the most secluded place

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Speaker 1: I could think of going, which is internet free. They

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Speaker 1: don't even have the option of having internet. That's how

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Speaker 1: like out in the middle of nowhere. This place is

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Speaker 1: in upstate New York. Because I was writing my book,

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Speaker 1: which more news on that front later. But so I

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Speaker 1: spent about two weeks up on the farm just getting

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Speaker 1: this book out of my head, which was quite the

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Speaker 1: intellectual binge of writing. I put everything else in my

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Speaker 1: business on hold for two weeks. It was awesome. And

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Speaker 1: then I took my little sister Isabelle on her week

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Speaker 1: long backpacking trip that I had had organized for her

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Speaker 1: as her gift for high school graduation. So she and

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Speaker 1: I did a whole section of the Long Trail in Vermont.

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Speaker 1: We went Hut to Hut. We carried a tent with us,

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Speaker 1: but we never had to use is it because we

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Speaker 1: crushed all of our daily mileage goals and got to

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Speaker 1: these like shelters, these pretty rustic lodgings in the woods,

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Speaker 1: hours ahead of our schedule, and so we never had

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Speaker 1: to pitch attend. But throughout the course of that entire month,

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Speaker 1: I was just me and my dog and my little sister.

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Speaker 1: Like that was it in terms of exposure to human beings.

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Speaker 1: Um sometime with the booze parents and sometime with strangers

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Speaker 1: on the trail who did not give about what you

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Speaker 1: were shaving or not shaving. So I took that opportunity

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Speaker 1: to just not shave anything for a month. And I

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Speaker 1: have to say, only when I stopped shaving everything for

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Speaker 1: a month, did I realize, Wow, it has been well

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Speaker 1: over a decade since I've ever gone this long without shaving,

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Speaker 1: Because I had basically started shaving after one summer camp

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Speaker 1: experience when all the girls were shaving and I was

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Speaker 1: like the only girl that hadn't shaved anything. And I

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Speaker 1: came home from camp with no hair on my leg

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Speaker 1: and like, hit it. I hit it from my mom.

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Speaker 1: How old were you when? And I hit it from

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Speaker 1: my mom who would like definitely would not have approved.

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Speaker 1: And then one day she found out, like she noticed

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Speaker 1: while she was like forcing me into like slathering on

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Speaker 1: lotion after a bath or something, She's like, you have

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Speaker 1: to lotion up. You don't want dry skin, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. And I remember feeling like I've done

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Speaker 1: something really bad, and I like secretly started shaving. And

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Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh my god, I'm almost thirty years old.

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Speaker 1: I've never gone a month without shaving since I was fourteen. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that could not be more different from my own experience.

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Speaker 1: The last time I shaved my legs was literally the

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Speaker 1: White House Correspondence Center of the Obama administration. That's the

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Speaker 1: last time it's happened. Well, to be fair, there was

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Speaker 1: another time, because I remember this came up when we

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Speaker 1: were first starting to serve as co host for Stuff

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Speaker 1: I've Never Told You, which was a super exciting time.

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Speaker 1: Earlier this year, the network sent us on a little

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Speaker 1: like tour of DC with that video team and the photographers,

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Speaker 1: and you were talking about, oh my god, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe I'm not going to like not shave for a

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Speaker 1: photo shoot because it was summer and arms were going

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Speaker 1: to be out and legs are gonna be out, and

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Speaker 1: you made the call then well, I shaved my pits

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Speaker 1: not my legs, all right? Yeah? Were you feeling? Was it? Then?

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Speaker 1: Maybe there was a conversation about, like I'm feeling a

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Speaker 1: little like should I have shaved? I felt like I

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Speaker 1: was happy that I shaved my arm pits, but I

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Speaker 1: regretted not shaving my legs. Yes, that's what it was.

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Speaker 1: So why So that's the discordance that I'm curious about

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Speaker 1: because there seems like there definitely is pressure for all

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Speaker 1: women to shave, for sure, and you feel that I

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Speaker 1: feel it when it comes to my physical the way

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Speaker 1: that I physically present. I think I've just gotten to

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Speaker 1: a place where I just do what I want right,

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Speaker 1: Like I know there's pressure. I get it. It's tough

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Speaker 1: to navigate, but I think I've just sort of taken

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Speaker 1: myself out of that. And I will also say that

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Speaker 1: I have my eye when I was waxed and my chin,

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Speaker 1: basically my entire face waxed, right because I of PCOS.

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Speaker 1: And if you know what that is, it means that

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Speaker 1: you oftentimes have a hairy face. And so if I

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Speaker 1: didn't get my eyebrows wax, I would look like free

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Speaker 1: to Carlo, that's not that that's a bad thing, right,

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Speaker 1: she was pretty bomb, she was pretty great. This is

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Speaker 1: polycystical variance, right, Yeah, which where I mean Warren's an

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Speaker 1: episode of itself because so many women I know are

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Speaker 1: dealing with PCOS. I saw you tweet about this on

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Speaker 1: your hilarious twitter feed. What did you say that soliciting

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Speaker 1: When you go to s salant and you're there to

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Speaker 1: get your eyebrows done, and the woman I swear every

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Speaker 1: song they do this, they say mustache to question, like

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Speaker 1: like it's a question, and it's not a question of

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Speaker 1: do you want your upper lip wax? It's that mustache

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Speaker 1: that you have you want me to take care of that.

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Speaker 1: I swear one day, I'm gonna say no, I'd like

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Speaker 1: the mustache styled please. I mean, that's just I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you're like immediate response was like mustache, Like what mustache?

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Speaker 1: What are you talking about? But that's like purposefully I

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Speaker 1: think they do it. I think it's good marketing. Really

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Speaker 1: make you think that you have a mustache, whether you

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Speaker 1: do or don't, to see how okay you want me

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Speaker 1: to take care of that mustache for you. For the record,

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Speaker 1: I might have a little bit of a mustache. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's the thing. If there's one thing

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Speaker 1: that I want this episode to underscore is that bodies

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Speaker 1: are hairy, and body hair is okay. Why do we

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Speaker 1: live in a society where even an advertisement for razors

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Speaker 1: for women, they shave an already shaved leg. They don't

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Speaker 1: shave a hairy leg, even an advertisement for razors. Think

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Speaker 1: about horror movies where the scenario is that it's the

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Speaker 1: end of the world. They're being you know, tailed by,

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Speaker 1: zombies are living out in the woods. Whatever, Where are

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Speaker 1: these women finding time to shave their bits? You just

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Speaker 1: think about my mind. We live in a world that

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Speaker 1: doesn't even illustrate that body hair for feminine identified folks

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Speaker 1: is a thing, and that's wild bonkers. It's really it

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Speaker 1: really is. It's when you start seeing it. It's rewear.

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Speaker 1: You just blew my mind with the shaving commercial about it.

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Speaker 1: They shave already shaven leg. And that's how unusual it

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Speaker 1: is to see body hair in society that they shave

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Speaker 1: already shaved leg. You can't even show a hairy leg

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Speaker 1: and a goddamn razor. Well, it just goes to show

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Speaker 1: you how uncomfortable the world is with hairy women. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's hard out there for us, Harry ladies. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: like so unpalatable. It's like they can't this isn't something

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Speaker 1: that can be seen. Really deal with it, body hair,

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Speaker 1: body hair, deal with it. But you'd actually be surprised,

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Speaker 1: I mean, particularly when it comes to pubic hair. That

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Speaker 1: attitude is a little bit of an anomaly saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna just have my hair the way I wanted

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Speaker 1: and people can just deal with it. We'll dive it

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Speaker 1: more into the statistics on why that is after a

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Speaker 1: quick break and we're back and we were just talking

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Speaker 1: a little bit about how body hair is so unpalable

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Speaker 1: in our culture. We really don't even really see it.

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Speaker 1: So how did we get here? Well, as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: bridget body hair removal wasn't really that big of a

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Speaker 1: deal until the nineteen forties, at which time bathing suits

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Speaker 1: started to get a little smaller instead of a complete coverage,

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Speaker 1: as we know in the Nipples episode. Really men and

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Speaker 1: women's bathing suit trends came up there too, As more

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Speaker 1: of our bodies were on public display, hair removal not

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Speaker 1: only on legs but along the bikini line became more

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Speaker 1: of a concern, And we promised y'all at the top

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Speaker 1: of this episode we're gonna be talking about bush Embrace

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Speaker 1: yourselves because here it comes. That's when having no body

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Speaker 1: hair on your bikini line became associated with femininity and

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Speaker 1: being presentable in public on beaches. So that's when people

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Speaker 1: really started to be concerned with the appearance of their

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Speaker 1: bikini line. But really, not much was going on underneath

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Speaker 1: a bikini in terms of hair removal until later on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: women tended to still have pretty full hair despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that they trimmed their bikini lines to get into

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Speaker 1: these much smaller bathing suits. Lady Escaping, Lady Escaping a

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Speaker 1: little bit of that what's going on. And in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, if you've ever picked up and dusted off

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Speaker 1: an old Playboy, you know that full Bush was king

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Speaker 1: for a long queen, I should say, fuld Bush reigned strongly,

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Speaker 1: especially in the seventies. By the time that ninety two

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Speaker 1: iconic porno Deep Throat came out, women still tended to

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Speaker 1: be as harry as men between their legs, which as

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Speaker 1: someone who has seen that movie, I can't confirm, there

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Speaker 1: is a lot of hair. There's also like mustaches and

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Speaker 1: like curly froze, a lot of hair, a hair, and

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Speaker 1: there's a very chest hair time. Like I feel like

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Speaker 1: the seventies were all about, you know, hippie sheek. I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about the musical hair right like, this was

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Speaker 1: a time when hair was celebrated, when oh natural makes

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Speaker 1: Day's organic movement look really uptight exactly. It wasn't until

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four that things changed a little bit. That

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Speaker 1: years when you had Hustler magazine publishing their first quote

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Speaker 1: unquote pink shop. Weird name. Never heard that term until

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Speaker 1: this epode, I had never heard it either, But it's

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Speaker 1: one of those terms that as soon as you hear

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Speaker 1: it I knew exactly what they meant. Without even finishing

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Speaker 1: the sentence, I said, pink shop, all right, get it.

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Speaker 1: I get what they're insinuating there um. And in case

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Speaker 1: you have not picked up on that, that was the

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Speaker 1: first entirely pubic hair free woman in Hustler. Still today,

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Speaker 1: pubic hair grooming is very much in in the United States,

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Speaker 1: according to a study published by researchers from you See

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Speaker 1: San Francisco's Department on Obstetrics and Ecology and Reproductive Sciences

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Speaker 1: and Department of Urology. Women here in the United States

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Speaker 1: increasingly are grooming their pubic hair for cosmetic purposes. But

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Speaker 1: this trend seems to appear amongst specific demographics of women,

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Speaker 1: in particular young white women. Yeah, so my mom was

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Speaker 1: kind of right on this one way to go stuff.

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Speaker 1: Your black mom ever told you right on the money.

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Speaker 1: White women are more likely to remove their pubic hair,

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Speaker 1: so are younger women and more educated women, and they're

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Speaker 1: more likely to report that they were grooming if they

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Speaker 1: feel that this is what their partner wants. What is

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Speaker 1: your theory behind this, because I'm sure you have one

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Speaker 1: like I have my own, But what do you think

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Speaker 1: is the reason behind, younger, whiter, more educated. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question. I do think it has something

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Speaker 1: to do with how we're raised. I think back to

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Speaker 1: my mom just sort of casually saying, if you have

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Speaker 1: dark skinned you don't need to shave anything. People really

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Speaker 1: can't even see the hair. I think that's part of it.

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Speaker 1: I also think that it has to do with peer groups.

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Speaker 1: Like it didn't surprise me when you said that you

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Speaker 1: first started shaving your legs when you went to summer

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Speaker 1: camp being in a you know, a bunk or what

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Speaker 1: happ you with a bunch of girls you're same age,

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Speaker 1: and sort of picking up on the fact that, oh,

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old girls shaved their legs. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: sort of is rite of passage. But instead of me

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Speaker 1: having that moment with my mom, I was the weird girl,

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Speaker 1: like in sixth grade who didn't have a sports bra

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Speaker 1: on when you want to change the gym. You know,

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Speaker 1: my mom was so latey fair, she was a total

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Speaker 1: hippie about everything. But I never got the memo and

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Speaker 1: I always felt like kind of left out, you know.

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Speaker 1: So it was definitely a peer pressure situation when it

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Speaker 1: came to shaving. But I think This has a lot

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Speaker 1: to do with privilege, because a pubic hair maintenance is

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Speaker 1: expensive as hell. Brazilian bikini waxing expensive as hell, right,

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Speaker 1: and on top of that, like we know, we all know,

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Speaker 1: shaving down there is not the best it's not the

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Speaker 1: most advised situation with ingrown hairs and whatnot. So I

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Speaker 1: just think that I don't know when I when I

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Speaker 1: read younger, whiter, and more educated, it was like, those

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Speaker 1: are the times in your life, like young, white, more

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Speaker 1: educated women are the ones who are going to justify

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Speaker 1: that kind of an expense, you know what I mean, Like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm young, I haven't thought about budgeting for my retirement yet.

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Speaker 1: I'm more educated, so I might have more privilege going

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Speaker 1: for me in terms of income. And I'm white, So

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Speaker 1: all of the above times a bunch, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. I just feel like there's a bit of

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Speaker 1: performative privilege that goes into maintaining your pubic care as

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Speaker 1: being an important thing. Yeah, I think that's probably right.

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Speaker 1: And I think that even this buying a razor if

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Speaker 1: you're a woman can be more expensive than it is

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Speaker 1: if you're a man, because it's pinks w has to

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Speaker 1: costs x amount more. Um, I think there's something to that.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's one of those things where from

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Speaker 1: an early age I was not socialized that body hair

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Speaker 1: grooming was an important thing to worry about in the

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Speaker 1: scheme of things. And I think that it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: a lot of my classmates, because we were all girls

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Speaker 1: and an all girls school, also didn't shade. But I

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Speaker 1: wonder if I had been in a public school, a

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Speaker 1: co ed school, things would have been different. I distinctly

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Speaker 1: remember in my public high school there was this like

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Speaker 1: weird rumor that I don't know why any of us

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Speaker 1: were talking about this, but somehow had gotten around. This

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Speaker 1: is like back in the day when every sex act

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Speaker 1: was so new to us, as like this was probably

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Speaker 1: middle school actually not even high school, that like anytime

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Speaker 1: anyone hooked up in any capacity, it like became the

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Speaker 1: gossip fodder of the next Monday morning. And I remember

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Speaker 1: hearing this story of this guy who was dating this

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Speaker 1: girl in our public school asking her if she would

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Speaker 1: take care of the hair because they were hooking up

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Speaker 1: and he wasn't into like her bush. And that's something

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Speaker 1: became like public knowledge in my high school that she

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Speaker 1: had to clean it up. Down there, you know, for

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Speaker 1: the sake of his preference. If that's you, when you're listening,

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Speaker 1: please call into the show. I have so many questions.

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Speaker 1: Don't don't. Don't so embarrassed that I ever heard that

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Speaker 1: about you. But yes, I mean, that really does jive

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Speaker 1: with the research that men are much more likely than

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Speaker 1: women to ask their partner or expect their partner to

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Speaker 1: do that kind of grooming. So her experience, as mortifying

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Speaker 1: as that sounds, actually jives with some of the things

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Speaker 1: that we've seen the research around this issue. According to

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Speaker 1: the study from the Journal of Sexual Medicine, both men

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Speaker 1: and women prefer a partner who does a little maintenance

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Speaker 1: down there, but men are much more likely to prefer

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Speaker 1: a partner who removes all body hair. Sixty percent of

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Speaker 1: men prefer a partner that is hair free compared to

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Speaker 1: women who prefer a hair free dude. Wow. And it's

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Speaker 1: important for us to point out that this was a

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Speaker 1: survey of a thousand people who were mostly heterosexual and

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Speaker 1: mostly white, so you know, they're not really taking into

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Speaker 1: considerations same sex couples experiences. But it's interesting that, first

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Speaker 1: of all, of women prefer a dude that's fully shaved.

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Speaker 1: Interesting all I have that I almost don't want to

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Speaker 1: say this because I know that the all right, I

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Speaker 1: almost don't want to say this because the person that

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about listens to the show, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that you will recognize himself in this anecdote. So sorry

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Speaker 1: that I'm telling a bunch of people. But he told

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Speaker 1: me that he grooms completely down there because he thinks

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Speaker 1: it makes him look bigger. That's definitely a thing you think. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I think that's definitely assumption. Right. It's like a way

404
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Speaker 1: to play um like visual tricks, like an optical illusion.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's no hair. It's huge, enormous exactly

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Speaker 1: works every time I can really get the scope of

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Speaker 1: how big it is about the hair. And you know what,

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Speaker 1: I think this is a to do with porn. So basically,

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Speaker 1: the authors of the study found that the prevalence of

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Speaker 1: fully waxed women in pornography are linked to the prevalence

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Speaker 1: of waxing amongst younger, white, or more educated women. In fact,

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Speaker 1: they found that women younger than the age of twenty

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Speaker 1: four were significantly more likely to have opted for a

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Speaker 1: Brazilian or a full shave, particularly if they were white

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Speaker 1: in college educated. That doesn't surprise me at all. And

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Speaker 1: I've often wondered about the ways that porn is really

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Speaker 1: influenced how we see how men and women are supposed

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Speaker 1: to look down there. Yeah, I wonder if you think

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Speaker 1: do you think it has anything to do with the

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Speaker 1: recency of your pubic hair, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Like when you're younger, the majority of your life was

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Speaker 1: spent without hair down there, and now you're, like in

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Speaker 1: your early twenties just getting used to it. Still are

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Speaker 1: like later in your teens, are just getting used to

425
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: it and haven't fully gotten to the point. Like you

426
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: said at the top of this episode, I've just taken

427
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: myself out of that, you know, public expectation. It's almost

428
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: like you've gotten to know your own body better, right,

429
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,479
Speaker 1: You respect how your own body wants to show up

430
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: in this world, you know, and you're not going to

431
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 1: hold yourself up to a standard of what you see

432
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: in porn for starters or some weird warped version of

433
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: a youthful girl who doesn't have any hair down there.

434
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if I wonder if that's length as well. Well. Actually,

435
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: that's a perfect segue into something that I found really

436
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: fascinating from this topic, which is shame. According to the research,

437
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: shane can sometimes have a lot to do with why

438
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 1: a woman chooses to groom down there or not. According

439
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: to something called the Female Genital Self Image Scale or

440
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: the f g S I S, which is a scale

441
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: put together by researchers from the University of Indiana and

442
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: the University of Texas, the drive to groom once the

443
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: pubic area can be linked to shame for women. According

444
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: to one of the researchers from the University of Indiana,

445
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: she writes, there's this very real sense of shame if

446
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: you don't have your genitals prepared. I get that. I

447
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: totally get that. Would I'm on the road for a

448
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: week at a time, I don't shave at all, and

449
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: then the night before I come home, I'll shave my body,

450
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's definitely performative still, so

451
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: I just want to make it clear that I don't

452
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: think that makes me a bad feminist. But there's also

453
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: an angle to this, which is like fully aware that

454
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: there's a performative component to body hair. As women, I

455
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 1: think that we are taught to be ashamed about a

456
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: lot of our body to smells, hairs, moles, freckles, like

457
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: all kinds, all kinds of things we are taught to

458
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: be ashamed of, and so I almost wonder if it's

459
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: this internal thing where when you don't when you aren't groomed,

460
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: it's just internalized that there has to be some sort

461
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: of shame linked with that. Yeah, definitely, I mean to

462
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 1: be fair, I kind of was amazed with my own

463
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: body after that month on the farm. I was like, whoa,

464
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: check this out, Brad and I met up with him

465
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,959
Speaker 1: after really being apart for like four weeks, and I

466
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: was like, dude, look at the hair under my arm

467
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: fits right now, Like, look at my legs. I was

468
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: sort of like fascinated, which I'm sure is not the

469
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: intent if that's like your default, So I hope that

470
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: doesn't sound I'm knowing. I was just amazed at my

471
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: own body, and I was like, check this out, dude. Yeah,

472
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: when you let stuff grow, it's kind of surprising how

473
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: how my how your garden grows exactly exactly. Something I

474
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: found really sad from the research that they did at

475
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 1: the University of Indiana on what they call the Genital

476
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 1: Self Image Scale. One of the researchers were called that

477
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: she was talking about body hair with a group of

478
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: students and during one of her class discussions, a male

479
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: students said he had never seen a pubic hair on

480
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: a woman in real life and that if he ever

481
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: came across it, he would walk out the door. So again,

482
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: I think this idea of what we see in porn,

483
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: what you see in media shame, it all kind of

484
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: gets into one kind of untanglable ball that leads to

485
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: having people not even sort of recognized body hair as

486
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: a thing that grows on our bodies. Yea for women,

487
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: for women, and it's so gendered. Yeah, that sucks. The

488
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: other thing that was really sad about that scale is

489
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: the link that researchers found between women's feelings about their

490
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: own genitals, that sort of self image in that region

491
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: of our bodies being directly linked to their enjoyment of sex.

492
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: So if you're not feeling good about how you're presenting

493
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: down there based on all of these unrealistic expectations in

494
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: porn or wherever, then you're going to enjoy sex less.

495
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 1: And that's because even when I don't feel like the

496
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: sexiest version of myself, you don't want that to get

497
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: in the way of your enjoyment of the act itself.

498
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: But I feel like it definitely does. Yeah, And I

499
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: guess that's to be expected, because even as someone who

500
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: doesn't really do a lot of body hair grooming, if

501
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling my best in other ways, I can

502
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 1: see that getting in the way. So how did you

503
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: shake off the hair expectations? I'm so curious like that.

504
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: Never I think beef free. Yeah, it never really was

505
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: a beef for me. I think I think a big

506
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: part of it is that the kinds of people who

507
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 1: end up being near my body in an intimate way

508
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: have never brought it up. So I honestly this sounds

509
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: I've told people, listen, it sounds wild. I don't think,

510
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: particularly with my legs, I don't think anyone's even ever

511
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: really noticed that I don't shave my legs. I don't

512
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: think it's ever even come up in that way. And

513
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: so I think one, I think my mom is kind

514
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: of right that I do have dark skin and I

515
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: have dark hair. You really you have to get very

516
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: up close and personal to see, oh, that person has

517
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: hairy legs. My arm pits is a little clearer, but um, yeah,

518
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: I think I just, really, that's such a good question.

519
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: That's such a good question. I just think it's pretty

520
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: inspiring that you are like, I don't care the deal.

521
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: I think at a certain point I realized I have

522
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: a actually I know exactly what it is. If you

523
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: go back. I bring her up on the podcast Act.

524
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: She's one of my idols. But Solange Knowles has this

525
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: great thing that she did when she shaved her head

526
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: and people were like, you had such beautiful hair, why

527
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: did you shave it? Blah blah blah, And she just said,

528
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, I have so much stuff that I care

529
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: about in my life, and I have a finite amount

530
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: of energy that I can devote to things, and I

531
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: want to devote that energy to things that are not

532
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: my hair. And that's just the way it is. And

533
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: I think that for me, that thing was body hair.

534
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: You know, I already cared so little about it, and

535
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: I already knew that the act of shaving is physically

536
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: uncomfortable for me, like I get a ash, My skin

537
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,479
Speaker 1: is already very sensitive, and I just thought, you know,

538
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to dedicate my finite energy into giving

539
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: a fit. When anybody thinks about this and the kind

540
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: of people who would be touching my legs and touching

541
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 1: my body in an intimate way. Those are the kind

542
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: of people who probably wouldn't give a shit either. So

543
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: it just sort of worked out that the kind of

544
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: people who I would want to present my body in

545
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: a particular kind of way that we tend to be

546
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: on the same page about. It's kind of a prerequisite. Yeah,

547
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: Like if you're like, if you're, if you're. The guy

548
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: who I met at red Derby was actually I told

549
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: him to listen to the podcast. You gonna listen and

550
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: be like, what the hell you were never going to

551
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: get there, dude, you were not eligible. He was like

552
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,959
Speaker 1: barking up the wrong tree in so many different ways,

553
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: Like a total waste of time. But thanks for the drink, though,

554
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: this is making me sound so awful. Um, it was

555
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: for research. It was for researchers, for research. So yeah,

556
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: I just think it was one of those things where

557
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: I said, it just isn't worth investing the energy in.

558
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: And I already have so many things that I want

559
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: to be investing my energy into, and whether or not

560
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: my legs or shaped is not one of them. I

561
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: honestly think that's why The research points out that younger

562
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: women who have a little bit more privileged in some

563
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: ways are more likely to be removing all hair because

564
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: in that conclusion alone is something that takes a little

565
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: while to come to. So I haven't always been a

566
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: hairy feminist. In college, I would shave from time to time.

567
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: Even in college, I think I was more likely to

568
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: sort of feel like I needed a shave in order

569
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: to compete with the girls who were my age who

570
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: were shaving. Like that was the first time that I

571
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: was around a lot of white women who were my

572
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: same age. That was the first time that I realized

573
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: it was unusual to not shave. This is also my

574
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: first year of college wasn't awakening for me in a

575
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: lot of ways, and that I had mostly been around

576
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: women the entire time, and so I didn't realize that

577
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: people wore things other than pajamas in public. I didn't

578
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: realize that, you know, you're supposed to shave your legs.

579
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: I and realize, and I didn't realize that that was

580
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: I just all of this was new to me, and

581
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: so I was for the first time kind of grappling

582
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: with how you presented as a woman or how you

583
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: were expected to present as a feminine person, and so

584
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: college I did feel a little bit weird about it.

585
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: And I also think it was more associated with being like, oh,

586
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: I'm a feminist, I'm like a radical person, and in

587
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: college I was very radical and just in college I've

588
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: always you know, you know, but I think in college

589
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: it was much more part of my identity. I think

590
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: these days for me, like, if you're not a little

591
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: bit radical, I'm like, oh, like past. Yeah. In college

592
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: it was much more like I was like the radical

593
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: girl on campus, whereas these days, like everybody I think

594
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: is like the radical person, whether you look it or not. Well,

595
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: I feel like you live in that bubble. Correct. Yeah,

596
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: that's that's thank you. That's that's what I'm trying to

597
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: radical bubble dweller. I feel like I'm babbling, but you

598
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: get what I'm saying. Right at the time, I was

599
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: the radical feminist and so the fact that I didn't

600
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: shave a ton was like part of my identity in

601
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: a way that is not now. And again because it's

602
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: because I am in a little bit of a lefty

603
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: feminist bubble. It just means less, Yes, it's less salient,

604
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: that's exactly. Yeah, that's interesting. And actually, now that you

605
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: mentioned it, thinking about it, another reason why I probably

606
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: didn't shave that much in college and it felt different.

607
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: It is because I grew up hearing that not shaving

608
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: and having a pubic hair was good for your sexual health.

609
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: And this was a message that I internalized very early on,

610
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: that you had pubic hair for a reason. My mom

611
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: used to always say, you have hair for a reason,

612
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: and you don't want to get rid of it if

613
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: it's put there, you know, by nature, by God. Right,

614
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: So I'm like, wait a minute, what is mama to

615
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: actually saying, I think there's a god. The Biblical verse

616
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: for this, my mom is, I'm telling you, it doesn't

617
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: matter the situation. My mom is a Bible versu that fits.

618
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're made up, but I swear heard her quotes

619
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: byer Man, and I'm like, that's not scripture, that's bier Man.

620
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. But yeah, so I grew up thinking

621
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: that not shaving was good for your sexual health. And

622
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: actually there's some debate on whether or not that's true. Right,

623
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: So what's interesting is Emily Gibson, a family physician who

624
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: blogs at Barnstorming, says that removing pubic hair can come

625
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: with sexual health risks because hair quote protects against friction

626
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: that can cause skin abrasion and injury, protecting from bacteria

627
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: and other unwanted pathogens. So that's exactly what I grew

628
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: up thinking. I grew up thinking that your pubic hair

629
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: was like the last line of defense from nasty is

630
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: getting into your bage, right, the lack of a better friend.

631
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: That's the medical term, if you look at a medical

632
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: is the accepted medical non enclature. Not to mention. She

633
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: goes on to say that like removing pubic hair irritates

634
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: and inflames the hair falcon, which we all know when

635
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: it comes to removing pubic hair. Even though a lot

636
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: of people, according to the research, do opt to shave

637
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: as opposed to waxing shaving, at least for me, it

638
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: is not a very pleasant experience. It's not and I

639
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: think that's where the whole waxing world gets its revenue stream. Frankly,

640
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: but that's not pleasant either. Nothing about hair removal down

641
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: there is pleasant. But you've got to know, you're like,

642
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: you've got to keep your razors rotating. I'm a disposable

643
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: razor person now. I used to have fancy razors, But

644
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: now I'm like, I don't want any razor touching my body.

645
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: That is not pretty new, because otherwise it's just gonna

646
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: gather bacteria. You're going to get more grown hair, is

647
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: more likelihood of infection, and all of that is just

648
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: the worst. So the one time that I tried professional waxing,

649
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: I had a group on and it was one of

650
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: those things where I hemmed in. I was like, do

651
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: I do it? It's half off, man, will try it?

652
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: Why not budget wax I know, first of all, if

653
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: you ever want to of all the things to not

654
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: get cheap on, waxing is probably hot on the list.

655
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: Probably waxing and like lace six eye surgery, two things

656
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: you don't want to cheap out on. Pay the pay

657
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: what it costs. I go to the salons my first time.

658
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 1: Keep in mind I barely even ever shaved my first

659
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: time doing it. Everyone is like, oh, it's not that bad,

660
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: not that bad. This was when the trend was I'm

661
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: dating myself a little bit. This is when the trend

662
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: was those super low rise jeans. I've seen photos on

663
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 1: you like throwback Thursday. I was oh, so sad, so sad.

664
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: It's like why why did we think those jeans were good?

665
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: There was like so much back showing. I was like,

666
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: coming from you had to be out. Basically, your our

667
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: vulvas were out in the early two houses go back

668
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: in the look. It was the trend. And so I

669
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: had a Christine Agulara, Yes, yeah it is. So I

670
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: had a coupon for a spa salon to get waxed,

671
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: and I've never done it before. I go in. I'm like,

672
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: is this gonna hurt? She says, Oh, It's gonna feel

673
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: like a quick pinch. I say, fine, live. She does

674
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: the one side, I'm on fire? Did you like pass out?

675
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: I like I have. It was a pain, a searing,

676
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: red hot pain of a thousand sons, the likes of

677
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: which I have never experienced ever in my life, and

678
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: I hope never to experience again. Here's the kicker. She

679
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: did one side. I was like done, I can't do this,

680
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: and she was like, You're gonna be very hairy on

681
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: one side and not harry on the other. And I

682
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: said fine. So I was I left half done. I

683
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: just couldn't. I couldn't go through with it. Oh I

684
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: wanted to. I just realized something in the middle of

685
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: the story. This is the second very specific story I've

686
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: told him about my own body parts. So I'm sorry

687
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: it's coming back back. It seems to come up a lot. Um.

688
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, so the second time you've made me basically

689
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: cry on air laughing about your vagina. It's like the

690
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: third the third co host of this podcast, like third

691
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: character who comes up sometimes. Um, Okay, let's take a

692
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: quick break, but when we come back, behalf to finish

693
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: talking to this medical research and whether or not shaving

694
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: is actually good for your sexual health. And we're back.

695
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: We were just getting into some of the medical research

696
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: on whether or not shaving's good for you bad for you,

697
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: talking about why waxing is the most painful thing I've

698
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: ever experienced and why it should be avoided because it

699
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: hurts like a mother. Um. Yeah, So, but here's the thing.

700
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: The medical community is a little bit divided on the

701
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: health benefits or lack thereof, when it comes to hair removal.

702
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: And I wonder what you think about this, bridget because

703
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: other medical professionals say that pubes can be a breeding

704
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: ground for bacteria themselves. I've heard that before. Um, I

705
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: don't know. It's a good question because I've heard it

706
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: both ways, right, that you need pubes because it creates

707
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: a barrier for things that could get into your vagina

708
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: and making sick. I've heard that it can be a

709
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: breeding ground for those very same things. Yeah. So Dr

710
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: Wendy Eskew, who's quoted in the Women's Health piece on

711
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: this as there's no question that being hair free in

712
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: that area is cleaner simply because of the fact that

713
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: hair does provide bacteria. But does cleaner mean better necessarily?

714
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think fear of pubic lice or

715
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: crabs is a good reason to shave all your body hair,

716
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like real protection is better, right,

717
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: Like actual protection, like wrap it up and use barriers.

718
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: Your pubic hair does not count as a barrier that

719
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: they're trying to talk about insects. Said so, I guess

720
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: if we're if we're talking about if we're talking to

721
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,479
Speaker 1: the women who are you in high school right now,

722
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: let's just go on the record, is saying there are

723
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: real ways to protect yourselves, and that is condoms and

724
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: dental damns and all of those things. But to me,

725
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: it feels like there are risks to shaving. There are

726
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: unpleasant trees associated with waxing and other ways of removing

727
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: body Here we didn't even talk about nair and the

728
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: toxic chemicals that people are basically putting on their body

729
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: to remove body hair. But you know there are clear

730
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 1: serious medical risks with those options that I think outweigh

731
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: keeping your body hair. You think so, I think so? Yeah.

732
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: And again I think I've said this earlier on the show.

733
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: If this episode does anything, I hope that it underscores

734
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 1: that it really should be a personal weighing of what

735
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: you think is important versus what's not. And I think

736
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 1: if you think that you know, well, what's what's what's

737
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: comfortable exactly exactly, And it has to do with your

738
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: own what is that scale, your self vaginal experience scale

739
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, right like your own self image

740
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: of your body in terms of hair, like do you

741
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: feel good having body hair, then great, keep it around.

742
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: Do you feel better with some grooming or a whole

743
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: lot of grooming, then that's on you too. Just make

744
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: sure you're not performing for somebody else all the time.

745
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: I think, no fun. Yeah, And I think for me

746
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: as a as a Harry feminist, I think it's okay.

747
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: It's okay, to be Harry. Choosing to not shave doesn't

748
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: have to be some heavy choice. It certainly isn't for me. Um,

749
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: And that's okay. I mean I think women to just

750
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: own their grooming choices. I was going to say that

751
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be making your personal grooming choices because of

752
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 1: your partner, but I guess if that's how you get down,

753
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: maybe that's okay. Yeah, I mean it kind of reminds

754
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: me of the shoot we did together, Like you didn't

755
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: want to deal with being the one with Harry Pitts

756
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: on our photo shoot, right, and you you made that choice.

757
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: You decided based on the audience and your own, you know,

758
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: goals for that shoot to not have Harry Pitts. And

759
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: I think that a this audience, and I would love

760
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: you with Harry Pitts all the same digitally add hair

761
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: those images region we'll get right on that. No, but

762
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: I think it is it's a tricky one. And I

763
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: think what you're saying, which I wholeheartedly agree with, is

764
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: that nobody should feel feminist shame or like a bad

765
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: feminist for you know, not keeping their body hair around. Yeah. Obviously,

766
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: we live in a society where the choice to groom

767
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: or not to groom has been made very hairy by

768
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: this whole thing called the patriarchy, and so I just

769
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge even though for me, I don't think

770
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: you think of it as like a feminist choice or

771
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: a political choice. I think it's very clearly still an

772
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: issue that is so gendered and so hot button. I mean,

773
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: you had a Swedish model earlier this year who posed

774
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: for Adidas with hairy legs, and she got rape and

775
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: death threats on Instagram just for having hairy legs. She

776
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: actually went on Instagram to address the firestorm that her

777
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: bear hairy legs got from being in this image, and

778
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: she writes me, being such an able old white cis body,

779
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: but it's only non conforming feature being a little leg hair. Literally,

780
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: I've been getting rape threats in my damn box. I

781
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: can't even begin to imagine what it's like to not

782
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: possess all these privileges and still try to exist in

783
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: the world. And I think she's so right that even

784
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: a little thing like a little bit of leg hair

785
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,479
Speaker 1: on someone who otherwise is totally genderal conformant is gets

786
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: you rape and death threats. That should just go to

787
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: show that this issue is as much as I tend

788
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: to think of it as just a personal preference that

789
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: I've made for myself, that isn't really this heavy political thing.

790
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: It's still very clearly is politicized. Well, it sounds like

791
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: it's an issue men have with harry women. Yeah, it

792
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: sounds like something that men need to figure out, because

793
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: I I think you and I have talked a lot

794
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,439
Speaker 1: on this episode about the other women in our lives

795
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: who have influenced our shaving or not shaving, And I

796
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,959
Speaker 1: think really the pressure is on not just from the

797
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: actresses in pornos, but from the guys in our lives

798
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: who would walk out the door when you know they

799
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 1: were confronted with a little pubic hair or leg hair

800
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, And honestly, reading her response on Instagram

801
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: reminds me earlier this year, I took a car trip

802
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: down to North Carolina to go to Okracoke, this island

803
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: off the coast of eastern North Carolina. It wasn't a vacation,

804
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 1: was for one day. I drove eight hours to spend

805
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: one day, and then I drove it a vacation of sorts.

806
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I got a day on the beach. I

807
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: got it there on the beach and when I drove

808
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: when I drove down there, I was wearing my like basically,

809
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: I was looking my most kind of like myself. I

810
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: would say I had my hair was curly. I was

811
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 1: wearing an oversized men's baseball hat that's a power on it.

812
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: I was wearing a sports braw and overalls. I was

813
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: going to call that that was That's what I thought

814
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: you were going to say overalls when you said oversized,

815
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, I knew you. That's that's like,

816
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: like I feel like myself and I am dressed in

817
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: that kind of way. Were your July for Instagram pick? Yes,

818
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: that was like bridget Todd one oh one. You were

819
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: like exuding Bridget to thank you. I was, and I

820
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 1: felt like myself and my pits were Harry right that trip. Yeah,

821
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: that was the same trip. Yeah, that was like me

822
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: at my most like most, feeling like myself. I'll put

823
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: the picture in the note so folks can like, what

824
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: are you talking about? But so my like regular kind

825
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: of like uniform which is a little bit gender non specific.

826
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: Perhaps we'll say um and Harry armpits and I'll never

827
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: forget driving down to North Carolina, stopping to get gas

828
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: and things. The way that I felt when men at

829
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: gas stations and rest stops and diners would see my

830
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: hairy armpits. I almost felt unsafe. And I don't want

831
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: to I almost cringe at saying that, because there are

832
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: people whose gender presentation makes them very, very unsafe on

833
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: a regular basis, and so I don't want to conflate

834
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: the two. But the kind of responses I was getting from,

835
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, gas station owners and clerks on the road

836
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: in eastern North Carolina was making me feel noticed in

837
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: a way that I didn't like. And so I remember

838
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: before getting in the car to go back to d C,

839
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: I shaved almost because I was nervous. I didn't I

840
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: didn't want to feel like that again. I didn't want

841
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: to feel these eyes on me in this way that

842
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: felt uncomfortable, and I didn't want to as a as

843
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: a woman alone, I felt uneasy about attracting that kind

844
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: of attention for my body hair, and so I shaved,

845
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: and it was it was It felt like a totally

846
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: performative thing. You know, I don't feel like myself and

847
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: I but I shaved, and it just was a really

848
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: strange consideration. Yeah. Well, it is a reminder that we

849
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 1: can mistake what might look like a personal choice for

850
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: what is very much a constrained choice. That's exactly it.

851
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: That was when I realized, Oh, in my radical bubble,

852
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 1: I can say, oh, I don't shake my armpits because

853
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 1: if I do, I get a rash and I don't

854
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: really care about it. I'm kind of lazy and have

855
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: that be that. I'm very privileged to have that be

856
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: the case for me in my life. That was I

857
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: don't think I recognized until that trip that that being

858
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: able to feel like that's just a you know, las

859
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: a fair thing. I'm casual choice I'm making. I don't

860
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: think I realized how privileged I am that that is

861
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: the case for me, when it's not the case for everybody,

862
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: and it really shouldn't be. It's I mean, it's body

863
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: shouldn't be a privileged thing to choose. It should be

864
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: a choice. It's such a nothing thing. I thought it

865
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: here is such a it should be such a non issue.

866
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: But here we are, and here we are. Yeah, And

867
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: I think that's part of the reason why it is

868
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: often seen as radical, because you whether you realize it

869
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: or not. By not shaving, because that's how you feel

870
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: most you, you're really making it okay for other women

871
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: to do the same. Like, I think the more women

872
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: who choose not to groom body hair, even if it's

873
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: just once every now and then on a farm or

874
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, if I were to like regularly not shave,

875
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: make that a real choice that's more acceptable. And I

876
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: think things like the H and M campaign it just

877
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: came out last year, which featured models with armpit hair curves,

878
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: and we're more sort of gender fluid. I think if

879
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: we can get brands on board, how about let's start

880
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: with Razor commercials. People, if you want to sell us

881
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: on your razor show it taking off some actual body hair,

882
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 1: don't shave and already shaved leg on a commercial, which

883
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: I think is just such a mind blowing point you

884
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 1: made earlier. We need to see in mainstream media on runaways,

885
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: in magazines, and maybe if y'all could see us on

886
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: this podcast, you would see it, but in more of

887
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: a mainstream way. We need to see women with body

888
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: hair to make that a more understandable normality. It's about normalizing, Yeah,

889
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 1: I think we should be normalizing that grooming of body

890
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: hair is a choice and not It shouldn't. We shouldn't

891
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: be normalizing that grooming of body hair is a given

892
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: that if you don't groom your body you're in a

893
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: specific kind of way, then you're abnormal, when in fact,

894
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: groom it, don't groom it. It should be a choice

895
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: and we should be living in a world that reflects that. Yeah, absolutely,

896
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: even if it was just like fourteen year old me

897
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: at summer camp, shouldn't be made to feel weird and mothered.

898
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: Same thing for thirty year old me. Yeah, so you know,

899
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 1: if I feel like shaving this week, I will, Yeah,

900
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: do you? Yeah? I think as feminists it should be

901
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: about choice, and I think that I choose not to

902
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: shave that often. I do shave sometimes, So I don't

903
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: want this to be like your vegan thing where you're

904
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: mostly vegan and someone's gonna see you eating a hot

905
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: dog and be like that a vegan Like, yeah, I

906
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: saw I saw a picture of Bridge on Instagram and

907
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: her art bits were smooth. What gives? So it might happen,

908
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: but that's not new. Yeah. I'd love to hear from

909
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: our listeners how has this shown up in your life? Like,

910
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: do you feel pressure to be well shaven or groomed

911
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: in what capacity? Have you had an adventure with the

912
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: waxing salon or budget wax. I've definitely had a group

913
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: on wax myself, So I feel for you bridget um

914
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: or shaving, Like, what are the pros and cons if

915
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: you were to break it down, and how do you

916
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: feel or how do you react when you see a

917
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: hairy woman? You know, this is stuff that we're internalizing

918
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: as women too, and most importantly, let's talk to men

919
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,959
Speaker 1: in our lives. Let's talk to the men who listen

920
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: to this podcast. What is your actual reaction if you

921
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: are finding hair down there that you were not expecting

922
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: and why do you feel that way? I would want

923
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: to know that. I'm curious. Yeah, well, I'm excited to

924
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: hear from other hairy people. As a hairy person myself,

925
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: I'm particularly interested in people who choose to be hairy

926
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: for things like weddings and proms. What's that? Like? My

927
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: mom always asked, So you're gonna not shave your armpits

928
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: and you get married, And I'm like, I don't know

929
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: if I'll get married. I know this is a lot

930
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: of questions. Sypassicna it's holidays, it always goes bad. But

931
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: I'm just very curious to know for other folks what

932
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: this looks like. Yeah, so hit us up on Twitter

933
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast, Let's keep the conversation going over

934
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff mom Never Told You, And as always,

935
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: we love getting your emails at mom stuff at how

936
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com