WEBVTT - Paul Rappaport 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Such podcast. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.120 My guest today is full of Rapaport, who has a 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.640 new autobiography, Glider's Over Hollywood. Why that title. 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:30.680 That title came from the editor's suggestion. I was having 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:33.960 trouble coming up with a title for the book all 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.160 the years I was writing it, which was like six years. 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.800 I just couldn't grab a tight I just couldn't come 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.640 up with a title that would capture it. And he said, 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.159 you know, let's look inside the book. Maybe you have 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:51.440 something there that already is a title. And he liked 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.200 my original chapter. It was called Gliders Over Hollywood. And 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:59.440 he liked it because it connoted, you know, the fun 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:01.400 that we had, you know, back in the day, and 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:06.520 and and in some ways, you know, in an odd way, 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.320 all of us in the business were maybe sort of 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.280 like Gliders over Hollywood, like you know, dropping our little 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.480 promotion bombs or music or whatever. He said, Look, he 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:20.600 just was enamored with it, and he said, I would 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:22.720 love to make this the title of the book, and 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:24.440 then we'll give it a subtitle. So, you know, the 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.320 subtitle says Airship's Airplay and the Art of Rock promotion, 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.120 maybe you get a better idea of what the book 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.920 is about. But he said, look, I really want you 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:34.520 to think about this title. And the more I thought 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.039 about it, I really liked it because you know, if 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:39.880 you look at it, you kind of go, huh, what 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.440 is that? Like? What is that about? Right? And then 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.319 if you look at the book cover, those guys did 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.880 an amazing job at that at this company's job on press. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.360 And you know the guy that did the cover, Paul 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:56.880 Palmer Edwards, you know, put an airship coming. It looks 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.200 like it's coming over the Hollywood sign. It's perfect. Whole 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.800 thing worked out great. I'm pleased as punch, you know. 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.920 Okay, why did you write the book and why did 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:08.520 it take six years to write it? 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:17.440 I wrote the book because I I loved this time 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.760 that yeah, and you were there, Bob. I mean this 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.919 time the seventies, the eighties and the rock music business 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:32.040 was the most amazing, incredible, unbelievable, glorious time when it 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.360 was like the wild West and there were no rules 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.000 and we were making it up as we went along, 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.720 and there were all these characters, right, we were all characters. 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.240 You're a character, I'm a character. Forget the artist, the 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:47.760 fucking manager. We can we're cursing, right, that's okay, right, 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.400 the fucking man. I mean you're talking about a business. 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:56.040 This is business right where Okay? The manager of Journey 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.280 big band. Okay, Herbie Herbert. I don't know if you 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:02.359 ever met Herbert. Okay, Okry, I know them, Okay, okay, fine, okay, 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:04.920 gets on a Yiddish kick. You read about it right 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.240 in the book. You know he's not even Jewish. He 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.440 gets on a Yiddish kick, sends Yiddish for Dummies books 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.400 to the whole industry, and says, if you want to 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.520 talk to me or they had a famous road manager 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.120 still with us, pat Bubba Moro, because if you want 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.520 to talk to me or Bubba, you have to speak 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.160 a couple of lines of Yiddish. So I get the book. 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.960 It's cute, great, fine, I'll never forget this. It's a Thursday. Okay. 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.600 I get a call Herbie Herbert, Herbie, how you doing? 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.720 Voshmachs too? You know, how are you? He's talking to 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:34.920 me in Yiddish. I'm saying, Herbie, I got the book. 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.280 It's cute, it's great, it's Thursday. You and I have 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.840 to decide this new single for this Journey record. We're 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.200 selling fifty thousand albums a week, and Bob, as you 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.360 well know, it's all about momentum and your timely releases 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.160 of singles. I have to tell the rock stations one 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.440 is coming out. We have to put the single in production. 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.000 We're down to a deadline, and I'm telling him we 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.000 got to do this now. He keeps talking Yiddish. He 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.640 doesn't stop for two minutes. Finally stops and he goes 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.480 rap raps my nickname because I'm lost him to rap 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.600 aport right, so Rap, What the fuck? A nice Jewish 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.520 boy like you ken't learn a couple of lines of Yiddish. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:08.720 I'm like Hermie, I got it. I got the book. 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.040 It's cute, it's great, but this is important. We're selling 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.080 fifty thousand homes a week. We're on a deadline. I know. 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:19.240 Learn your Yiddish and call me back. Click ock, Bob. 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.479 This is rock and roll business in nineteen eighty five. 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:24.640 I have to get the YIDDI if I want a 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.359 Journey single, I have to get a Yiddish book and 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.800 learn two lines of fucking Yiddish before I can talk 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.240 to him. This is real. This is not made up shit. Okay, 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:36.919 that's just a tip of the iceberg of all this 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.040 stuff you and I experienced. And I just somebody. You know, 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.520 I'm the guy that got the call. Great. Thanks. Somebody 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.000 had to write it, somebody had to capture all of 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.200 this because it's totally unbelievable. I don't know if it 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.880 could ever happen again. It's this magic time. Uh. And 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.680 it took six years because I wanted to get it right. 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.760 And look, you're a writer, You're a natural writer. Okay, 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.560 I'm not you. I had to learn how to write. 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.680 I wrote a blog for ten years for a website. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.119 It was a promotion company that my friend Judy Lebaux owns, 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.000 which you probably know her ex Atlantic exec Rights, Yes, 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.120 Right Classics d jor So we work together for ten 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.800 years and there's a website that goes along with the 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.400 promotion we do. And I did a blog called Backstage 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.640 Access for ten years. And I learned how to write 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.279 in those ten years. And finally when I got to 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.039 the end, it was like, I think I'm good enough. 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:38.080 I found my voice. I found a writer's voice. I said, 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.479 I think I'm good enough. And the book had been 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.360 calling out to me to be written for years because 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.320 I love telling stories and I'm a natural at that. 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.080 I think I got it from my dad, but I'm 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.120 not a natural writer, so I had to learn that craft. 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.359 And then, lucky for me, there's a big time ghostwriter 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.640 in my town as a list guy, writes for presidents 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.240 and you know, movie stars. And he looked over my 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.360 shoulder and I would send him stuff and he'd say, hmm, 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.039 that's serviceable. And I'd say okay, and then you know, 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:10.880 another year, lext year, I'd send something else. He goes, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.839 this is getting better. Finally, I think by the third year, 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.520 he goes, this is actually entertaining and enlightening. He says, 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.480 I think you're good to go, but I just wanted 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:25.120 to make it great. And in order to do that 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.720 it takes time. Writing is rewriting and rewriting and reworking 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.680 and throwing stuff out and putting stuff back in. I 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:36.320 went through four editors that helped me. The last one, well, 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.880 the last one was Tom Seabrook from Jobbone, who's like 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.599 professional and he got this and he said, you know, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.840 this writing's great. He goes, But they're like producers, right, 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.640 He goes, like a producer. Hey, you got fifteen tracks, 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:51.880 let's cut it down to twelve. I'm going to re 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.520 sequence your album. And here's a better baseline, like for 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.520 this track. Right. So he's like that guy. So he 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:03.800 suggested all these things, and all I could do was say. 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.839 All I could do was listen and say thank you, yes, 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.200 thank you. Yes. This is not chapter one, this is 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.960 the prologue. This is books top heavy. I want to 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.680 move some of these chapters around. He goes, hey, look, 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:18.120 it's your book, but this is my suggestion. Okay. I 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.440 know from being a professional, I wished some of my 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.840 younger bands would have listened to me. But you know, 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.520 I'm smart enough to understand this is what this guy 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:29.680 does for a living. And it took a second because 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.360 the book was a little different, but I digested it 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.560 and I went, oh my god, this guy's made a 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:40.040 good book into a great book. I know I'm the 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:41.840 guy that wrote it, but it doesn't matter who wrote it. 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.400 This guy did this, you know, and so, but that's 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.120 why it took so long. And you know what, and 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.160 you know, Jim McKeon, right, of course, good friend, Look mack. Okay, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.920 turns out the guy's an editor who knew the guy's 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.080 been one of my best friends my whole life. I'm 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.080 writing this way. He goes, oh, you should work with me. 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.720 I'm an editor. I was like, since when he goes, no, no, 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:01.840 I was in Catholic school, I learned from he's not 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:06.680 not at it. See, this guy is an editor, he bob. 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:11.760 This guy worked with me, I mean painstakingly, paragraph by paragraph, 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.040 line by line, word by word. You know, it was 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.360 like fucking Bruce Springsteen making a record. I mean, the 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.680 guy so cerebral. Right, this is what it felt like. 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.200 It was like, crap, there's a better word. This is 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.920 not the right word. You know, this is not you know, 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.360 it's not if you walk Paul McCartney down the street, 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:28.960 it's not a it's not a dangerous crowd. It's it's 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.120 going to be a challenging crowd. That's a better word. 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.959 So then I'd go ask my wife, Sharon, Max says, challenging, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.120 What do you think? Yes, listen to Mac. You knows 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.560 what he's talking about. So it took a long time, 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:43.360 but it's I think. You know. I worked for a 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.560 lot of presidents and one of them was Don Einer. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.120 And Don had a lot of wisdom. And he used 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.240 to tell artists, new artists who wanted to get their 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.480 records out right away. He'd say, listen, I want you 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.560 to go back and work on this. I want you 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.840 to make it right. Nobody is waiting for your album, 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.000 but once it's out, that's it, and you're not going 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:05.960 to have a second chance. And he would tell all 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.480 these young artists, you know, you know, nobody's waiting for her. 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.520 I'm just wait, wait, and and that was kind of 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.760 reverberating in my head, honestly, because I knew that and 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.920 I needed it. I needed it to be great. I mean, 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.120 I just look, you read my book. I'm competitive, and 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.280 I wanted you know what I wanted. This is going 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:27.840 to sound like an ego thing, but I wanted it 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:30.079 to be the best. I wanted to be the best 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.200 fucking book you could read about our times. And then 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:39.679 some guy named Bob lefts Sets actually wrote that like, 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.160 I was scared to death when you sent me there email, 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:47.760 because you're an opinionated fellow, so you know I was. 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.640 I was, I was frightened. And so then I clicked 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.320 on it and I read this line, this is the 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:58.400 best book about how it used to be and I 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.920 read that three times in a row and then I thought, 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:07.000 I'm done. I can retire now because it's you right, 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.880 It's like, it's do people know you? 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:10.080 Like? 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.120 Do people actually know what a Bob Blust that says? 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.360 Do you think your listeners are all the people that 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.800 read the letter? Do they know who you are? Or not? 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:20.600 You know, they think they know who I am? 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:22.760 But they okay, okay, well, okay, just you know what, Bob, 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.160 You're no bullshit guy. I'm not going to play Kate. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.000 I'm not smoking. I'm not I'm not going to blow 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.520 smoking up. He's just just for anybody who doesn't know. Okay, 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.760 there's the Left Sets Letter. Okay, it's this give and 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:40.120 take you know, online thing. If there wasn't a Left 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:44.480 Sets Letter when our industry went south, as we knew it, 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:49.280 none of us that we're in this giant family would 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.800 be communicating with each other. We'd be lost. We'd be 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.839 in the fucking desert. But there's a guy, Bob Blust 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.559 that's has this Left Sets Letter, and all of a 0:10:57.600 --> 0:10:59.640 sudden we can talk to each other, and all of 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.040 a sudden, the letter gets even bigger, and now it's 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.880 about politics. And now it's about all this stuff and 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:09.800 and and now there's a podcast. You know, I'm one 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.600 of your biggest fans, but it's not it's people need 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.959 to know, Like how do I say this? I mean, 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.840 just like how important you have been for the music industry, 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.400 you know, and just in general. You know, God knows 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.439 how many people read the Left That's letter now, And 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.840 I don't know if everybody listens to this podcast reads it, 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.520 but you should read it because there's no nonsense, there's 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.760 no bullshit. You say exactly what you want to say, 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.920 and you take a lot of heat sometimes, but it's glorious. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.360 That's what you want. I don't I don't want people 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.240 pulling punches. Tell me how you feel. You know, you've 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:44.920 been able to make this yourself. 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:45.400 You know. 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.800 It's like certain artists have the ability to make any 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.959 album they want, and and and it's okay, and you've 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:55.120 made that for yourself, so you know, congratulations to you, 0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:00.320 and people just know how fucking important you are. If 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:01.440 you don't mind my saying. 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:06.720 So, well, I'm smiling. This is audio only, I can't 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.600 you know. That's as good as it gets. So I'm 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.040 not going to respond. I will just say thank you, 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:21.480 continuing with the narrative, since you had to slim things down, 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.800 anything worth mentioning that was left on the cutting room floor. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.520 You know, I don't know if it's worth mentioning or not, 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:35.480 because you don't really know. In my special in my 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:41.440 special thanks, uh, I wrote this, I should actually get 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.760 this right. Hang on, give me a second here, crab 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.160 one of these things. I still don't believe I'm holding 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:51.599 this thing. Uh. There were three people that help me 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.280 in the beginning. So one of them was Bob Wilcox, 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.920 who's a you know, one of my colleagues marketing maven 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.120 from Columbia. He was like my first Slash and Burn editor, 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.079 if you will. So in my thanks to him, I said, 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.559 if you wish you could have read about my romantic 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:13.160 world when drug induced five days text marathon with a 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:17.280 renowned La rock DJ. Blame Bob, who ditched the entire 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.680 chapter rap nobody cares So. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:22.760 I read that? 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.360 He said, So I ditched it? 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:28.840 Is that a true story? 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:29.880 Yeah? 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.679 I had a whole chapter, and he said, You've got 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.240 better things to talk about. Nobody cares about your you know, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.319 five day sex marathon with the rock DJ. So I 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:43.440 ditched it so so I don't stop. First, wait a second, 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.200 but wait, wait, But the reason the only reason I 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.760 bring it up is because I was doing a podcast 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.120 with some guy who was in sense that it wasn't 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.760 in there. He goes, well, wait a minute, you can't 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.480 leave that out. I said, I'm the guy that wants 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.280 to know about that. And then I said, well, I 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:03.160 can't tell you about that because it's bribe. But you know, 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.320 so I don't know if anybody else gives a shit 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:11.199 about that. But but you know, look, you can't shoehorn 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:16.000 all the stories you want to tell in thirty plus 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.400 years of working for Columbia Records. You can't put it 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.400 all in a book. You got to pick and choose. 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.520 There's so much, so many more stories, and they're wonderful stories, 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:29.240 but you just you can't put them all in. So yeah, 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.040 you know, yeah, you know what, you want a good one. 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.480 I'll tell you one that that that I wished I 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.000 would have put in. Okay, you know, I'll tell you 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.400 one that I wish I would have put in. I'm 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.040 pretty easy going guy. I mean, my whole way of 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.760 promotion is is just learning people, learning how they think, 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:51.280 you know, trying to to you know, make them understand, 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.400 you know, how open their minds to listening to to 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.840 new music, you know, and in a certain way. Like 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.520 you know, if you have somebody who's who loves the blues, 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.160 right and you want to get them to listen to 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.880 some music, you don't you just never send anybody like 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.200 a file or you know, play somebody a record, what 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.840 do you think, because that's you don't really want their opinion, 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.080 you know, you're trying to you want the opinion that 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.000 you're going to try to shape. So if there's you know, 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.080 somebody's into the blues or whatever, you might say, oh, look, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.760 I've got this new artist. Chris Whitley's not right down 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.800 the pike rock. But this guy is the real deal. 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:27.880 This guy's playing resonator guitars. This guy is a real 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:29.920 job blues guy. No, So all of a sudden, you know, 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:34.320 this guy already knows you know that he's going to 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.400 maybe like this music. Or you are taking somebody to 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.920 see a band, or you're just being friends with people 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.720 and you're just you know, playing music for people. That's 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:49.240 that's the style of promotion, you know, person that I am. 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:54.280 But sometimes you have to wield a hammer. It's only 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.120 a couple of times in my career where I had 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:03.520 to get heavy, and one was during Springsteen's Nebraska record 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:10.560 because it was different and it was sparse. And I 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:18.320 remember specifically, excuse me, because I was taking three radio consultants, 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:20.960 three of the biggest radio consultants. One was in charge 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.080 of sixty stations, one was in charge of thirty, one 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.840 was in charge of twenty. I was taking them one 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.120 was a week. It was like three nights during a 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.160 week that I was taking them to Billy Joel's house 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.960 because I wanted to introduce them to Billy, because in 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.080 their minds they thought Billy was just this balladeer, lightweight guy. 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.080 And I got on, this guy's a rocker. You gotta 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.360 go see this guy's You need to meet this guy. 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.120 So Billy, Billy actually made dinner. He said, I'm going 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.440 to make dinner for these three guys. I was like, well, 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.720 that's nice of you. It was funny because Billy's part Jewish, 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.240 but Billy's all his bands are Italian. Billy likes to 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.800 think of himself as Italian, so he would tell me, rap, 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.560 I'm gonna make a the pasta like Bill, come on, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:03.840 But anyway. So he was me. So I figured, this 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:05.399 is great. I'm gonna put him in a limousine. I'm 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.439 gonna take him to Lloyd Neck where you know, Lloyd's neckwork, 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.920 where where Bill used to live at a nice house. 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.600 And you know, it's a long ride and we're in 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.639 a dark limousine. I'm going to play in Nebraska. There's like, 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.119 there's no better place you could play this music for someone. 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.879 And I played it for each of them and they 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:23.919 all said the same thing. As soon as soon they 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.199 heard it. They went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wa 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.240 wall wait a minute, wait a minute. You know, rap rap. 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:30.960 You know this is different. This is we're gonna have. 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.040 We're gonna have to like spoon feed this to our listeners. 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:35.879 You know this is not you know, this is not 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:37.520 born in the USA. This is not darkness. This is 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.800 something very different. And I and I and I and 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.360 I said the same thing to all three of them. Uh, 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.679 I said you, I said, you're kidding me, right, I mean, like, 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.440 at this point, Bruce Springsteen hasn't hasn't earned your respect 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.080 to give him the benefit of the doubt, Like, are 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.760 you kidding me? Uh? And they were like, well, well, 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.720 you know, oh it's it's very different and I'm not 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:04.440 sure about it, and I'm going to have to spoon 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.959 for this. And I said the same thing to all 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.399 three of them. I said, look, I'm not going to 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.639 make you put it in heavy rotation because I know 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.080 that's not real. I said, but you're going to give 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.040 this record a good shot, and you're going to let 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.119 the people decide. You're going to put this record in 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.800 medium rotation at least three times a day. And if 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.920 you don't, you're going to lose my phone number. And 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:29.920 that means if you lose my phone number, that means 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.200 you're using losing Bob Dylan's phone number, Big Floyd's phone number, 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.479 the wronging Stone's phone number, Elvis gos Stella, you name it, 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.199 because that's you know, I'm the guy. They need to 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:41.480 give them tickets and promotions and backstage meet and greets. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:43.960 And all three of them said the same thing. They're 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.960 going rap. This isn't like you like, are you going 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.080 to hold me up? And I and I said, for 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:55.359 Bruce Brinstein, I will not for everybody, but for this guy. 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.520 Right now, in this guy's career, this guy's becoming the 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.200 Elvis Presley of our times. He's a exploding Yeah, I'm 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:05.760 gonna hold you up for this guy. And they understood 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:11.000 it and they complied. And that's not in the book, 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.679 but it happened, and I didn't write that part of me. 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:19.760 I don't think in the book that heavy handed approach 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:24.080 to It's not I don't like it, uh, but uh, 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:26.080 you know that was a case where I had to 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:26.560 be different. 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.920 Let's go back to herby her Sure Journey is an 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:44.479 offshoot of Santana. The first albums are I don't want 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.080 to say prog rock, but they're moving in that direction. 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:51.240 Greg Rawley is the lead singer, who was the original 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:56.159 lead singer in Santana. Then they get Steve Perry and 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:00.399 it turns into a juggernaut. Tell me from the inside side, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.240 what was going on? To what degree was Herbie involved? 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:05.919 To what degree did you guys have to push to 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:07.720 make this? To what degree did you even think it 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:08.760 would be successful? 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.680 There would be no Journey without Herbie Herbert Herbie after 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.600 after the I think it was the Caravans or Eye album, 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.359 after that band broke up and Herbie was was on 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.200 tour as a as a as he was either the 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:29.160 road manager of Santana I believe he was at that time, 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.320 or he was way into that camp m m hm. 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.280 And he approached Neil and said, I want to build 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:39.040 a band around you. And Neil was like, okay. So 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.359 they got Greg Rawley, who you know from the original 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.120 Santana band, and they said, let's let's build a band. 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.119 And I'm trying to remember who the original players were. 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.560 I think I think Prairie Prince from the Tubes might 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:54.280 have been the original drummer. I think Rossvillong was the 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:58.120 original bass player. And he said, I want to build 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.040 a band around you. Now the original oh no, it 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.040 was prey print but no, it's no. When I met 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:05.840 up with him was Ainsley Dunbar. Ainsley was already the drummer. 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.120 But they, you know, and I would call them progressive. 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:11.399 They were progressed. I mean they were progressive rock, if 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:12.800 you want to call it that. I mean, you know, 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.240 long jams, and Roley was seeing the vocals like he 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.800 did for Santana, and we were doing okay. Uh And 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.560 I promoted both those records and we were doing okay, 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.280 but the label wasn't quite sure if they wanted to continue, 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.399 and Herbie told me this story over lunch before the 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.280 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Uh lunch when when 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.879 when uh? When Journey got inducted, and he said he 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:38.760 went to New York and he wanted to up the 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.880 uh they're contracting. They had two albums, they were getting 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:44.600 ready to do a third album and and he was 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.160 told they weren't sure they wanted to continue. They had 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.399 seen the band and they they I think it was 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:52.520 Bruce Lunvall at the time, was the president and a 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.119 guy named Armaanden who was the heead of marketing, and 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.879 they said something's missing and at the the and they 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:03.080 they wanted something more, and they suggested to Herbie then 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:07.159 maybe the band needed a frontman, a traditional front person, 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.119 traditional front man. And Herbie said, okay, well, let me 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:12.680 listen to what you're saying. And at the time, Arma 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.800 was working with a guy I got to come up 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:22.080 with his name, very good singer, you'd know him, and 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.440 his name escapes me at the moment, but they were 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:27.480 working with him, and Arma was working with him and suggested, 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:29.800 let's try this guy. And they did for a little 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.200 while and that didn't work out. Then they had another 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:35.520 guy and didn't work out, and somebody had given Herbie 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.960 a tape of Steve. Steve had been trying to make 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.439 it in the industry and he was having a hard time. 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.760 He just gave up, so he was he was working 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:49.160 on his I think it's I think it's a step dad. 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.840 I'm not mistaken. His dad had a turkey ranch and 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.440 Steve was literally shoving turkey shit like and the dad's ranch. 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.080 And Herbie heard this and he called and he and 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:04.240 Steve's mom was on the line, and he goes, I 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:06.920 really want to talk to your son, and she said, Nah, 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:10.639 he's done. He's his heart's broken, he's done. He's not 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.680 going to do this. Herbie had to beg his mom 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:17.640 to get Steve on the phone, you know. Finally Steve 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:19.960 gets on the phone and Herbie's like, I'm Herbie Herbert, 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:21.639 and you know I've heard your tape. I know you 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:24.280 had a rough time that just would you go with 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:26.720 me on this? Just come, you know, come out to 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:28.720 San Francisco wherever you wanted to come, He said, just, 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:31.440 you know, just just be with me, be with the 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:33.280 band for a little while. You know, you can come 0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:35.280 as a guest, you can come to help on the road. 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.200 You can come as a sound man whatever you want 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.600 and just be part of this. I think there's something here. 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.760 I just just please, please please. And so Steve did, 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:49.240 and Steve went with the band on tour. And this 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:52.639 the one lead singer who wasn't was really not getting 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:57.080 along with Herbie. And as the story goes, and again, 0:23:57.160 --> 0:23:59.439 this is a story told to me by Herbie. So 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:02.399 you know, in case anybody has any bones to pick this, 0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:06.600 you know, Herbie told me the story. The singer that 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:09.119 they had was getting a big ego and it was 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:13.560 just driving Hervey crazy. And finally he just had it 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:16.960 and he told Pat Morow. You know, I don't know 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:18.679 if you ever meet Pat Morrow, Bubba, you ever meet 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:22.480 his famous road manager, said, Bubba got to take this 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:25.920 guy somewhere. I want him to miss soundcheck. He said, 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:28.840 I just just have him miss soundcheck. So Bubba said, fine, 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:33.600 so soundcheck comes, no lead singer. Herbie's you know, looking 0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:35.040 at the band and goes, hey, well, you know, Steve 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:39.320 knows all the songs he's been he's been touring with us. Okay, 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.679 now here's a little backstory. I got to tell you this. Okay, 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:49.359 Bob left. That's exclusive so okay. Because Herbie liked the 0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:54.240 tape so much, he'd sent the cassette to Neil, Sean's 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:57.400 wife at the time. And this is a beautiful story. 0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:00.879 He said, Listen, don't play this for me. Ill just 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:03.560 put it on in the background. I just want him 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:05.200 to hear it in the background. Don't even tell him 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:06.880 who it is. Do not say this is a guy. 0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:09.919 He just play it. She'd been playing this tape for 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:14.240 Neil's just in the house, right, okay, fast forward back 0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:17.720 know the singer. Herbie talks to the band. He goes, look, 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:19.800 Steve's here. You know, he's been traveling with us. He 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:22.400 knows all the songs. Let him just do the soundcheck. 0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:28.000 Perry gets up to the sound check. Okay, boss, everybody's mine. 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:32.919 Sean knows it's vaguely familiar. He doesn't know why. He 0:25:33.000 --> 0:25:35.159 just know he loves it. He doesn't know why he 0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:37.720 loves it, but it's already in his head. You know, 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:40.359 it's like McCartney writing yesterday, Like who wrote this? I 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:43.000 don't know? Well, somebody tell me who wrote this same thing? 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:47.040 So Sean likes it. They like it. Lead singer comes back. 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:51.639 Herbie says, a lot of explatives to him and says, 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:56.520 you're fired. And that's how Steve Ferry got into Journey. 0:25:56.720 --> 0:25:56.960 And not. 0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:02.960 Too long later they you know, I can't remember. I 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:05.320 think it was at the Old Water Off in San Francisco. 0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:09.160 And shortly after that they come to La and Herbie 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:10.679 grabs me. He goes, you gotta see this new guy. 0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:13.280 You gotta see this new guy. And he goes sitting 0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:15.320 next to me, sitting next to me. So you know, 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:17.680 if you know Herbie, he's like amped twenty four to seven, right, 0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:21.920 there's thirty seconds of the song. Steve maybe has sung 0:26:22.000 --> 0:26:24.959 three notes. Herbie is a big guy, He's a big man. Right. 0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:28.520 He shoves me off my seat. Boom rap rap. What 0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:29.760 do you think? What do you think? What do you think? 0:26:30.119 --> 0:26:31.840 Is Herbie give me a fucking second? 0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:32.000 Man? 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:35.719 They've only been playing for thirty seconds, right, But I 0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:40.160 see it, you see it. It's just is it just is. 0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:42.400 It's just one of those things is meant to happen, right, 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:46.080 it just is? And uh, you know, and and the 0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:49.119 rest is history. It was the perfect voice for the 0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:55.400 perfect band, and with Greg Rawley, who here's another one 0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:59.440 that people don't know. Neil Sean used to play like 0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:02.160 a thous notes a bar. That was this thing right, 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:07.000 And Greg Raley told him, he said, Neil, nobody cares 0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:08.879 how many notes you can play in a bar in music? 0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:11.240 Do you want to be remembered as a guitar player? 0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:17.040 Play songs within songs, play melodies, playing notes that people 0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:20.520 will remember, and then you're going to be meaningful. Okay, 0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:23.240 this is Greg talking to Neil, and Neil listened to him. 0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:27.119 And that's why you can sing all the Journey solos 0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:31.560 right because Neil, you know, serves the song right that 0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:34.240 this is this is you know, first of all, Neil 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:36.119 Sean is one of the greatest guitar players on the planet. 0:27:36.280 --> 0:27:38.159 And a lot of people don't know what they should 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:40.639 but he's he's never leaves the mother ship or rarely, 0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:42.800 but he has solo records. You know, if you want 0:27:42.800 --> 0:27:45.320 to hear some great records, get Neil Sean solos. This 0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:47.800 guy's an amazing guitar player. But you listen to Greg 0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:51.760 and what do you get. You get you get people 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:56.320 that are are working for the same you know, they're 0:27:56.359 --> 0:27:59.080 working for the same goal. So now everybody's working to 0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:04.199 make great music, great records, great everything. You got the 0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:07.520 best players, the best producers, and one of the best 0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:10.000 managers in the business, Herbie Herbert, just you know, to 0:28:10.080 --> 0:28:13.480 put it all together to make this and it was 0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:15.200 it was. It was a marriage made in heaven. I mean, 0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:19.200 I mean, these songs are in everybody's head. We're still 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:22.800 singing them. It's you know, it's it's you know. They 0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:29.439 would consistently sell more catalog than anybody. It just is right. 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:31.119 It's like queen, It's like, come on. 0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:34.479 They got the earlier prog rock records. The first record 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:37.720 was Steve Has Lights and Wheel in the Sky. Those 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:41.160 are hits. You go to radio, you know, you know 0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:43.520 how radio is. They're looking for reasons not to play 0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:47.880 a record. They say, we already know this act. How 0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:52.040 did you close them? 0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:54.880 Honestly, it was the music because I didn't. You know, 0:28:54.920 --> 0:28:57.160 all you'd have to do is say, hey, it's it's 0:28:57.200 --> 0:28:59.480 it's new, it's different, it's a new band. Just listened 0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:03.520 to this. Mean that music is so good it's undeniable. 0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:09.000 So there wasn't much selling there because they were familiar 0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:11.480 with the band. And look, rock radio had played Journey. 0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:13.600 It's not like they didn't play them, it's just that 0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:17.440 they didn't have hits. You know, there's great music for 0:29:17.680 --> 0:29:20.120 music people. If you're a music person, you go listen 0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:24.200 to those first two Journey albums, right uh, and I 0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:27.280 can't remember that the titles of some of the songs, 0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:31.200 you know, you know, but it's great music. It just 0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:34.640 didn't you know, it just they weren't hit records. It 0:29:34.640 --> 0:29:37.480 wasn't going to resonate with the masses. But if you 0:29:37.480 --> 0:29:40.160 you know, go to somebody and just say, hey, this'sten 0:29:40.200 --> 0:29:42.760 a Wheel in the sky man, are you kidding? It's 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:46.160 like so, you know, that was easy peasy, and then 0:29:46.240 --> 0:29:48.840 and and you know, and and and then you know, 0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:51.760 after that is doing promotions and the things that you do. 0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:53.600 You get people to meet the band, and you know, 0:29:53.600 --> 0:29:56.160 you're you're on a different level. But it was the music. 0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:59.120 The music was just the music being so good. 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:02.320 You write a certain amount about the first Boston album. 0:30:03.120 --> 0:30:08.000 Tell us about first hearing that album and then ultimately 0:30:08.000 --> 0:30:09.080 getting it on the radio. 0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:14.640 Okay, well, ultimately getting it on the radio. You gonna 0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:16.640 have to do a podcast with Jim mckeeon because it 0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:19.520 was on Epic. He was he was in charge of that, 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:25.400 but we had ah, it's now a famous meeting at 0:30:25.480 --> 0:30:32.080 Caribou Ranch with the first beginnings of the regional album 0:30:32.120 --> 0:30:37.840 promotion teams. I had started as a local promotion man 0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:42.680 in Los Angeles in seventy one, I guess seventy seventy one, 0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:47.560 and I was promoting all formats. But FM radio was building, 0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:53.360 and as it built, the record label understood they were 0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:56.520 going to need people that were just going to be, 0:30:56.600 --> 0:30:59.400 you know, experts at promoting rock radio. You know, this 0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:01.720 was going to be a specialty. So I got the 0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:04.160 nod to try it, to be an experiment. So I 0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:07.840 believe I was the first FM promotion man in the 0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:15.120 country that solely promoted that format. So literally, I don't 0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:16.520 even know if it was. A year went by and 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:18.880 they went, oh my god, we need more of these people. 0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:22.400 So we need a regional you know people. We needed 0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:24.360 somebody in the East coast, somebody you know, and it 0:31:24.360 --> 0:31:27.760 grew exponentially, but it began with me on the West coast, 0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:30.960 somebody on the East coast ahead of album promotion. Mike 0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:35.000 Plott and Epic had the same thing. McKeon was working 0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:37.920 at k West Radio. He had started k West in 0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:40.320 LA and he was going toe to toe with k MET. 0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:45.840 He had made such a great rock station. Anyway, the 0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:48.800 owners were starting to give him trouble and he didn't 0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:50.880 want his art messed with. So I asked him if 0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:53.200 he wanted to join the Dark Side because I thought 0:31:53.200 --> 0:31:56.400 he'd be a great record guy. And he did, and 0:31:56.400 --> 0:32:00.000 it turned out he was. So he became my epic counterpart. Okay, 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:02.320 so now we're in La working together. So we shared 0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:05.720 an office. Actually, I have a great story to tell 0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:08.520 you about that too. Anyway, so we shared an office 0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:12.720 and so we go to the Cariboo Meetings, which is 0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:20.200 a ranch up in Colorado where James William Gercio had 0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:22.480 built a recording studio with the money he'd made from 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:26.400 producing Chicago. And everybody recorded there because there were no unions, 0:32:26.480 --> 0:32:28.480 you didn't have to worry about shutting down at a 0:32:28.520 --> 0:32:31.520 certain time. You could work twenty four to seven. The 0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:34.600 studio was state of the art and it's beautiful up 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:36.600 in Colorado. Meetre up up in the mountains and everything 0:32:36.640 --> 0:32:39.200 and everybody, I mean, you know, Michael Jackson recorded there, 0:32:39.280 --> 0:32:42.560 Joe wallaceh Edgar Winner, I mean, everybody. So we went 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:46.000 up there to have meetings and you know, look, meetings 0:32:46.480 --> 0:32:48.400 were fun, you know, in those days. What are you 0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:50.120 going to do. You're going to listen to music, talk 0:32:50.160 --> 0:32:51.719 about music, and then you're going to talk about how 0:32:51.720 --> 0:32:53.600 you're going to go out and shout about it. That's 0:32:53.640 --> 0:32:56.640 what promotion people do, right. I love this music. I 0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.040 need the world to know about it. Get ready, world, 0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:00.959 because this is coming at Okay. That's what we do. 0:33:01.000 --> 0:33:02.640 And then we have to get through the gatekeepers, which 0:33:02.680 --> 0:33:05.160 are the radio people and the press people of you know, 0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:07.080 we need to get the music to the public because 0:33:07.080 --> 0:33:10.120 the public has to decide. Right. A lot of people think, oh, 0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:13.760 the record business decides everything. We have priorities, we think 0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:16.720 we know some stuff. But your job as a promotion 0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:19.280 person is get the music on the air and let 0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:21.240 the people decide if they like it. And if they 0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:23.120 like it, then your job is to put the pedal 0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:24.960 to the metal and go make it happen. And I 0:33:24.960 --> 0:33:26.960 don't you know, you read my book. I don't hear everything. 0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:29.600 None of us hear everything. But your job is to 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:32.440 make that happen and then we'll all know. And if 0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:36.800 listeners respond, great, that's the one and they're you know, 0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:38.320 a handful of bands that I thought we're going to 0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:39.920 go all the way and Bob, I don't know why 0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:43.120 it didn't happen, just couldn't, just didn't resonate, you know, 0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:46.160 So I don't know. But anyway, so we're so we're 0:33:46.200 --> 0:33:50.600 at this famous meeting and we're having a lot of fun. 0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:53.920 I mean, you know, we're a bunch of hippies, were 0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:56.200 smoking dope. But you know, I mean, it's you know, 0:33:56.400 --> 0:33:59.680 in Colorado. What could be better? So we're all playing 0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:02.160 music because the idea was, Okay, whether you were Epic 0:34:02.240 --> 0:34:06.320 or Columbia, the idea was, let's all get together and 0:34:06.360 --> 0:34:09.040 play music for each other, and we'll cross pollinate because 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:11.880 we all were creative people, we'll have different ideas on 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:14.600 how to get this music done right. So, you know, 0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:17.359 Colombia's playing Columbia stuff, and this guy Mike Shavelson, who 0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:19.520 was the head of a promotion for Epic, was playing 0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:22.600 his stuff. So he plays us a band called Mother's 0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:26.960 Finest Great Band out out of Atlanta, Georgia. I don't 0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:29.759 know if it was Atlanta, was Georgia. And he goes, yeah, 0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.799 and I got this new thing called Boston puts it on, 0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:37.480 plays more than a feeling. Okay, A lot of us 0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:40.880 in the music business heavy ears like like we know shit, right, Like, 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:43.760 you know, we here, Okay, he plays more than a feeling. 0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:51.400 We're like stunned. We're like, we're like what why are 0:34:51.440 --> 0:34:54.080 these guys? Like, we'll play it again. So he plays 0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:58.480 it again, right, and we're like, holy fuck. So because 0:34:58.560 --> 0:35:01.160 he has to toe the line, right, he's you know, 0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:03.320 there's got to be priorities going, oh, don't get excited, 0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:05.960 don't get excited. You know, you know, the priority is 0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:08.160 mother's finest. You know, they're blowing people off the stage. 0:35:08.200 --> 0:35:11.600 The priorities mother's finest, you know, So let's not get 0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:15.239 too excited. So like I'm sitting next to McKeon, right, Well, 0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:17.040 look at that Harvey Lee's was there, you know Harvey, Right, 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:19.399 So Harvey's there, Harvey's at this meeting, right, you know, 0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:21.959 there's a whole there's a bunch of paragraphs just about 0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:24.120 Harvey Lea's in my book because people have to know 0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:26.400 these characters, like they got to know these people existed. 0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:30.080 So so Harvey's there, he's smiling near to ear And 0:35:30.239 --> 0:35:33.040 now I can't get in trouble because I'm the Columbia guy, right, 0:35:33.480 --> 0:35:37.640 So I raised my hand, right, Mike, with all due respect, Okay, 0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:41.319 and I and I'm aware of Mother's finest and I 0:35:41.360 --> 0:35:43.160 and I know they're blowing people off the stage, Mike, 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:47.360 I said, but really, Mike, we've just heard one of 0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:50.200 the greatest things we've ever heard ever. Okay, somebody has 0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:54.520 reshuffled the deck of riffs, guitar, riffs, and vocals to 0:35:54.640 --> 0:35:57.160 make this thing and we haven't even heard another track. 0:35:57.200 --> 0:35:59.919 We only heard one track. I said, when this thing 0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:03.520 gets played for radio people, Okay, Mike, it's it's going 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:07.759 to be a forest fire. It's gonna explode, and overnight, 0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:11.200 your priority is going to change. Right, It's just gonna happen. Right, 0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:13.959 It's gonna go bonkers. So you can decide now whether 0:36:13.960 --> 0:36:15.960 you wanted to make the number one priority or not. 0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:18.000 But I am just telling you, as a guy that 0:36:18.040 --> 0:36:20.600 does this for a living, watch the fuck out because 0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:22.160 this thing's gonna go nuts. 0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:22.759 Right. 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:26.040 Uh So, you know, he said, I got it, I 0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:27.520 get it, I get it. He's just you know, look, 0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:29.640 he's doing his job, right, which is what, you know, 0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:31.480 what a guy has to do. And who knows, you know, 0:36:32.080 --> 0:36:34.719 I'd like to think he knew in himself. I don't know, 0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:37.440 but you know, it's great so me and Mac go 0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:40.600 back to La Right, so he's with his music director. Well, 0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:42.880 his former music director is David Perry is still on 0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:45.840 K West, right, got, he's got an apartment on Larrabie. 0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:48.680 It's great, is the music director. Okay, this is how 0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:50.440 it used to be. Right, guy's got a small apartment. 0:36:50.719 --> 0:36:55.120 In the apartment are two giant JBL's, giant fucking jbls. Right, 0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:58.799 so you know, it overtakes the apartment. But that's how 0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:01.000 things were then, right. So we go, hey, we want 0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:03.000 you to listen to something. Sit down in a chair. Right. 0:37:04.080 --> 0:37:06.480 If there was ever a record made for JBL speakers, 0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:10.239 it's Boston. Okay, it's the perfect fucking record. We put 0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:12.399 on more than a feeling. We crank it to fucking ten. 0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.399 His hair blows back like in the Maxell commercial. Right, 0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:20.600 his brain explodes. He's like, what the fuck is this? 0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:24.279 When can I play this? Who is this? He's out 0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:27.600 of his fucking mind, right, So, and we tell him 0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:28.960 who it is, and we tell him, you know, he 0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:31.160 can play it tomorrow whenever the fuck it was, you know. 0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:34.359 And and that's what happened, I mean overnight, you know, 0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:38.640 fucking pow, you know, and then it just went on 0:37:38.719 --> 0:37:41.920 from there. You know, Bob listened to Boston. You tell 0:37:41.960 --> 0:37:44.719 me what's better the guitar, of the vocals, the Brad 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:48.560 Delt Come on, I don't even know. It's the fucking Boston. 0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:53.200 You know, it's the fucking hit machine. It's rock, it's 0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:57.080 it's it's messages. I mean, you know, it's piece of 0:37:57.120 --> 0:38:00.680 bond me and it's everything you know, you know, the 0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:03.239 people living in competition. All I want is peace of mind. 0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:05.479 What the fuck? I mean, it's everything you'd ever want. 0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:15.080 You know, let's go back. 0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:20.160 What happens when there's a priority and you don't believe 0:38:20.160 --> 0:38:21.160 in the record. 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:30.359 You promote it. I learned a lesson a long time ago, 0:38:30.360 --> 0:38:33.239 which I wrote in my book. A famous record guy 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:36.080 Steve Popovich, beautiful human being, one of the greatest promotion 0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:38.799 men that ever lived, and he and I were talking 0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:40.400 my nine. He said, Steve, you know all the records 0:38:40.400 --> 0:38:42.960 that we put out, they're all not great. You know, 0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:46.120 we're lucky, we're Columbia. Most of our stuff is really good, 0:38:47.000 --> 0:38:52.840 but sometimes there's like not how do you handle that, Steve? Like, 0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:54.799 how do you I have to have credibility, I have 0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:57.560 to go to these radio people, they have to you know, 0:38:58.120 --> 0:38:59.880 they believe in me. I have to have credibility. And 0:39:00.000 --> 0:39:03.760 he said, you know what he said, rap, he said, 0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:07.920 You'll always find one thing. It might not be the song. 0:39:08.800 --> 0:39:12.760 It might be the production, or it might be the vocal, 0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:16.239 or it might be the song. There'll always be one 0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:19.840 good thing. Just talk about that, just you know, just 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:21.239 go in and say, hey, look, you got the other 0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:23.680 production on this. You don't have to lie. You don't 0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:26.160 have to. You can't because no one's going to believe you. 0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:29.400 Said you need your credibility, he said, just talk about 0:39:29.960 --> 0:39:36.160 about one thing. Sometimes it was what we would call 0:39:36.200 --> 0:39:41.520 a fire drill, and I'll never forget one of them. Okay, okay, 0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:46.960 this is a good example. Steve O'Rourke, who is a 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:52.080 good friend of mine, managed Pink Floyd, great manager and 0:39:52.120 --> 0:39:54.560 I can't remember the name of the band, but he 0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:57.440 decided he was going to try something else and the 0:39:57.520 --> 0:40:03.640 record was terrible and uh but we knew with Steve's 0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:06.480 uh and uh, so I wanted to do it for him, 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:08.399 and and the and the and the big priority came down. 0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:12.400 It's like, you're gonna do this, and it's okay, we 0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:14.759 know how to do it. So what you do You 0:40:14.760 --> 0:40:16.239 go to all your friends or rock radio and go 0:40:16.360 --> 0:40:20.319 da da. You know this is important for us. I'm 0:40:20.360 --> 0:40:22.880 not sure I hear it. Do me a favor, have 0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:25.239 your night, guys, just spin it once or twice, like, 0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:27.160 don't don't even have to add the record, just just 0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:28.719 just put it on the edge it just so we know. 0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:31.360 I need to know because we don't know everything and 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:35.439 maybe I'm wrong and who knows. So was a fire drill, right, 0:40:35.640 --> 0:40:38.080 that's what we called it. And you'd go out to 0:40:38.160 --> 0:40:40.680 your friends because they were This is a family. We 0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:43.920 work together, you know, even though it's always this uh 0:40:44.520 --> 0:40:46.439 thing about the you know, the radio people and and 0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:48.399 you know and and you know and the record people, 0:40:48.440 --> 0:40:50.680 and we're trying to get our music played and they're 0:40:50.680 --> 0:40:52.040 trying to tell us why they don't want to play it, 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:55.919 and there's this give and take. But but there is, uh, 0:40:56.120 --> 0:41:00.279 there's a relationship there in this beautiful relationship. Uh. And 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:03.759 and people help each other, you know, someone does me 0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:07.719 a turn, and it's like, hey, listen, man, I really 0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:09.920 appreciate the times when you were there for me when 0:41:09.920 --> 0:41:12.200 I needed you. So you know, I'm gonna go borrow 0:41:12.239 --> 0:41:14.759 the Pink Floyd Pink from Pink Floyd and I'm gonna 0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:17.080 fight over your radio station. I'm gonna put two Kleig 0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:20.640 lights on it and paint your radio station pink. And 0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:22.480 it's going to stop traffic, you know, in front of 0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:25.520 your radio station as a thank you for that. That's 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:27.239 the kind of relationship it was. So that's how you 0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:29.799 did it. So you so, because we need to know. 0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:32.960 I can't know everything. You read my book, I'd love herboy. 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:34.440 I didn't get it right away. She didn't get it. 0:41:34.480 --> 0:41:36.960 I don't know why. It's a great record. I put 0:41:36.960 --> 0:41:38.319 it on, you know, I sent it out. I did 0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:39.840 what I was supposed to do, and lo and behold. 0:41:39.880 --> 0:41:42.880 You know Gloria Johnson from you know cagu And in Portland. 0:41:42.960 --> 0:41:44.600 Great just jockey calls me up. So did you have 0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:47.479 a hit on your hands? You know with turn Me Loose? 0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:51.720 You don't hear them all, but you need as a professional, 0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:56.200 it's your job to let the people decide, and that's 0:41:56.360 --> 0:41:59.560 what you do. One of my favorite stories is is 0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:03.200 it a great promotion? Man in New York guy named 0:42:03.200 --> 0:42:08.279 Maddie Matthews. Did you hear about Maddie Matthews? Maddie Matthews. 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:10.960 You know, it is completely out of his mind in 0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:14.200 the best of ways. Maddy Matthews had his own glossary. Okay, 0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:15.520 if you wanted to talk to Mattie, you had to 0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:18.920 understand how he was speaking, because it was you know, 0:42:18.960 --> 0:42:22.960 all these people, they had nicknames. You know. It was 0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:27.680 in Jiva, in Jinkeda, you know the people. You know, 0:42:27.719 --> 0:42:29.279 the weather's on a wing. I mean it was. It's 0:42:29.280 --> 0:42:34.920 a complete glossary. And everybody loved him. This guy was 0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:37.960 all the time New York guy. Uh and uh. He 0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:41.440 had an incredible, incredible relationship with Richard Near at w 0:42:41.960 --> 0:42:44.960 W and he and this is a famous story in 0:42:45.000 --> 0:42:48.919 New York. And he brought this record into Richard and 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:50.839 this you don't talk about the give and take relationship 0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:54.279 between you know, you know, record people and radio people. 0:42:55.239 --> 0:42:59.400 Gives the record Richard and he goes to leave, and 0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:02.920 Richard looks at him like Maddie, and he looks at 0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:06.560 he says, Maddie, are you kidding me? And Maddie turns 0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:09.960 around and looked at Richard and said you'll find something. 0:43:11.280 --> 0:43:15.000 And then he left. And that's all that Maddie had 0:43:15.040 --> 0:43:18.200 to say. Because Richard Near loved Maddie Matthews so much. 0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:22.560 We all did. Right that he knew that it was 0:43:23.400 --> 0:43:27.720 a fire drill, and he knew that Maddie needed it. Otherwise, 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:30.160 you know, he's going to get shipped from his bosses. 0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:32.520 And so he took care of Maddie. And you know 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:34.560 a couple of nights, you know, somebody's going to tune 0:43:34.560 --> 0:43:37.799 out at ten o'clock at night. No, So that's you know, 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:38.359 that's how you do. 0:43:38.320 --> 0:43:44.120 It, okay, Unlike today, in the pre internet era, they 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:48.400 used to shuffle the decade record companies on a regular basis. 0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:51.839 They get a new president, he would wipe out all 0:43:51.840 --> 0:43:55.479 the old people because you wanted loyalists, et cetera. How 0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:58.240 did you maintain your job so long? 0:44:03.719 --> 0:44:09.359 Because I'm malleable, you know, I'm I surprised myself because 0:44:09.360 --> 0:44:12.359 I'm a sensitive person. I mean, I took a lot 0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:16.880 of heat sometimes because I would I was a rebel. 0:44:17.000 --> 0:44:20.800 That's speak my mind. I would do it different the 0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:23.279 next time. You know. It's like, you have to learn 0:44:23.320 --> 0:44:24.280 how to work the president. 0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:24.480 Right. 0:44:24.480 --> 0:44:26.960 There's an art form to it. It's called managing upwards. 0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:28.959 You know, I finally learned it. I wish I would 0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:34.080 have learned it earlier, you know, But I think I'm 0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:39.920 pretty I'm pretty malleable, and and my only agenda. A 0:44:39.920 --> 0:44:42.759 lot of people have agendas in our business. A lot 0:44:42.760 --> 0:44:44.239 of people are trying to get a heah, a lot 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:46.279 of people trying to do this, trying to do that. 0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:50.920 My only agenda ever was just the music. I just 0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:56.840 loved the music so much that my agenda was just that. 0:44:57.680 --> 0:45:00.719 And they saw, even if they just agreed with me, 0:45:00.880 --> 0:45:04.600 or if I pissed them off, they saw my work ethic. 0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:09.000 They watched me do what I could do. I got 0:45:09.239 --> 0:45:12.279 big compliments from record company presidents, even the ones that 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:15.799 I was, you know that would be upset with me 0:45:15.840 --> 0:45:21.760 from time to time because they saw my work ethic. 0:45:22.120 --> 0:45:26.040 It's one hundred and ten percent, it's tenacious, don't stop. 0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:29.040 They saw my creativity. I think I had a different 0:45:29.160 --> 0:45:32.920 vision honestly than a lot of my peers. The way 0:45:32.960 --> 0:45:35.520 I approached things, the way I approached artists, the way 0:45:35.520 --> 0:45:42.239 I approached music, the way I approached promotion. And then 0:45:42.280 --> 0:45:45.279 there's little tricks. I had a president, I had my 0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:50.000 boss at one time was having a problem with album Network, 0:45:50.000 --> 0:45:52.080 which is a tip sheet in town of local tip 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:55.440 sheet nice people. Steve Smith telt me to ask and asked, 0:45:55.440 --> 0:45:58.600 you know, they're nice folks. For some reason, you had 0:45:58.600 --> 0:46:01.240 a bug I was asked with them or whatever. He said, Okay, 0:46:02.000 --> 0:46:04.200 we're going to do a power play. I go, what's that? 0:46:04.280 --> 0:46:08.840 He goes, you don't call them, you don't talk to them, 0:46:09.000 --> 0:46:11.600 and they're going to wonder where you are? Got it? 0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:14.719 And I said yeah. I don't want to say his name, 0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:16.080 so I don't want embarrass him. I said yeah, but 0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:18.600 I said, with they're friends of mine, they're gonna They're 0:46:18.600 --> 0:46:20.719 not gonna it's gonna be weird like they don't They're not. 0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:25.080 It's not gonna work, right. He goes, He goes, you 0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:27.759 work for me, and I'm telling you this is what 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:32.160 you're going to do. I said, okay. Uh So the 0:46:32.160 --> 0:46:35.359 first thing I do is I call Steve Smith from 0:46:35.360 --> 0:46:39.080 the Album Network and I say, Steve, it's rap. I'm 0:46:39.080 --> 0:46:41.560 not going to call you for a while because my 0:46:41.680 --> 0:46:45.360 boss just told me blah blah blah. I don't know 0:46:45.360 --> 0:46:47.839 what's going on with you two guys, but I need 0:46:47.880 --> 0:46:49.920 you to know that I'm not going to be calling 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:53.799 for a while because I've been told not to. And 0:46:53.840 --> 0:46:58.000 then you know, whenever you want, you'll call me and go, gee, rap, 0:46:58.040 --> 0:46:59.680 what's up. I haven't heard from you, And then you 0:46:59.719 --> 0:47:02.840 guys make up and they'll all get better. Right, I 0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:07.200 would get calls, you know, you have to be a 0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:10.160 good soldier, but you have to you have to work 0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:14.080 in between the lines, like I would get calls at 0:47:14.080 --> 0:47:17.200 home from the Rolling Stones. Right, they're telling us all 0:47:17.239 --> 0:47:20.640 this shit, like okay, listen, listen, listen, listen. Just they're 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:22.200 just telling you this stuff because they're telling you this 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:25.080 stuff because listen to me. Okay, they're going to tell 0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:29.040 you this. It doesn't mean anything. Okay, you say this, 0:47:29.040 --> 0:47:31.759 this and this, and then you'll get what you want 0:47:32.160 --> 0:47:35.840 and it'll all be fine. And so you Sometimes I'm 0:47:35.880 --> 0:47:40.759 a good soldier, but i'm you know, it's it's like, 0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:48.360 what do they call it, back politicsne yeah, back channeling. 0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:52.120 So I'm I'm working for everybody. I'm working for the artist, 0:47:52.160 --> 0:47:54.080 I'm working for the manager, I'm working for the label. 0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:56.440 But I need to make sure it all comes together, 0:47:57.000 --> 0:48:00.560 like I'm in charge of making sure everyone understands each other. 0:48:04.880 --> 0:48:07.640 At the end of the day, if someone tells you 0:48:07.680 --> 0:48:11.279 to do something, you I mean and you know you 0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:13.120 want to keep your job. Yeah, I mean you have 0:48:13.160 --> 0:48:15.560 to do it. But there's like so I explained, there's 0:48:15.600 --> 0:48:20.440 one way that you can do that, but I some 0:48:20.480 --> 0:48:25.320 people couldn't handle the heat. Some people left, certain presidents, 0:48:25.360 --> 0:48:28.920 people are people that you know, big time record business is. 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:30.839 I'm not staying. I can't take this. I'm out of here, 0:48:31.800 --> 0:48:35.640 and I'm more resilient I think than I knew. I 0:48:35.719 --> 0:48:37.480 have mental scars because of it. 0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:42.200 Honestly, Okay, two things people who are not in this world. 0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:44.680 And it was a different era in the pre Spotify era, 0:48:46.480 --> 0:48:51.320 the radio promotion people had so much pressure to deliver 0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:55.719 on Tuesday. What was it like living with that pressure? 0:49:00.000 --> 0:49:03.160 Difficult? If you're you know, I mean, if you have 0:49:03.200 --> 0:49:08.399 any feelings at all, things have to happen. It's a 0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:12.600 timely business. Not only do records have to get added 0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:16.480 in a timely way. If you're working rock promotion like me, 0:49:17.239 --> 0:49:19.560 you could be working eight or ten albums at a time. 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:22.839 They all have to go up the charts. That all 0:49:22.920 --> 0:49:26.000 depends on airplay. How many new additions that you get 0:49:26.040 --> 0:49:28.279 each week at each station? How many upward movements do 0:49:28.320 --> 0:49:32.280 you get? You're in charge of these people's careers, Okay, 0:49:32.520 --> 0:49:35.840 that's you. And you have to make sure that this 0:49:36.040 --> 0:49:38.280 music stays on the air and goes up the charts, 0:49:39.719 --> 0:49:42.880 and that in any given week you need x amount 0:49:42.960 --> 0:49:47.600 of new stations, you know, adding a record, and there's 0:49:47.680 --> 0:49:51.279 lots of unknowns, and at most promotion people will tell 0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:53.680 you if they're telling you of the truth, have a 0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:58.040 lot of Sunday night, sleepless nights, because Monday's is your 0:49:58.120 --> 0:49:59.920 last day to get done what you need to do, 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:04.000 get done, you know, whether you're prepared or not. And 0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:07.240 it's like taking the hill. I mean, it's like the Marines. 0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:11.359 I mean, at Columbia Records, there's no number two. There's 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:14.120 only number one. Okay, just tell me how you get 0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:17.680 into number one because number two isn't good enough here. Okay. 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:24.760 I never told anybody this, well, I have told some people. 0:50:25.760 --> 0:50:28.359 I didn't write it in my book because I didn't 0:50:28.480 --> 0:50:30.680 want to dwell on this part of it. I just 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:41.799 wanted to celebrate the shit that nobody will believe. I mean, 0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:50.680 for a good easily eight years after I left Columbia, 0:50:51.400 --> 0:50:53.880 I could wake up in the middle of the night 0:50:53.920 --> 0:50:57.040 with a nightmare, like freaked out of my mind that 0:50:57.160 --> 0:51:01.480 I wasn't prepared, or I just wasn't Eddie, or you know, 0:51:02.040 --> 0:51:05.000 a record I needed to go to one wasn't getting there, 0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:08.840 and I'd have nightmares. If you want to know honestly, 0:51:09.120 --> 0:51:14.800 how the pressure was I withstood it. I didn't. Some 0:51:14.800 --> 0:51:21.560 some people turned to alcohol and other things. I didn't. 0:51:21.920 --> 0:51:26.400 Thankfully lucky to have a good life's partner, my wife Sharon. 0:51:26.680 --> 0:51:29.759 I could talk things out too what you read about 0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:38.120 in the book. But but but you know the man 0:51:39.040 --> 0:51:41.560 you're talking about. You're in charge of the Rolling Stones, 0:51:41.640 --> 0:51:45.719 Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Pink Floyd and on and on 0:51:45.760 --> 0:51:48.120 and on. It's a lot of pressure. 0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:53.920 What would you say? You know? Sposes have different styles 0:51:53.960 --> 0:51:59.160 summer screamers, some are not, but you can't always deliver 0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:02.640 what they want. What would you say? And how would 0:52:02.640 --> 0:52:03.640 it play out? 0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:15.520 It would play out different in different ways. I'll tell 0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:17.160 you a funny one. Then I'll tell you a heavy one, 0:52:17.760 --> 0:52:20.160 which I did not write in my book because I 0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:25.279 just didn't want to go there. Probably shouldn't even go 0:52:25.280 --> 0:52:31.799 there on a podcast. But it's you, so so if 0:52:31.800 --> 0:52:34.560 you here's gonna if you work for Donnie einor Okay, 0:52:34.680 --> 0:52:40.480 here's how it works. Got into a record. Okay, I 0:52:40.560 --> 0:52:44.359 know that you know exactly what you're doing. Okay, you're 0:52:44.400 --> 0:52:47.799 the Babe Ruth of rock promotion. Man, you're my guy. 0:52:48.560 --> 0:52:51.200 I know that you know how to do this, But 0:52:51.320 --> 0:52:54.160 if I were you, I would do it this way. 0:52:55.640 --> 0:52:58.200 Meaning there's two ways to promote a record. You can 0:52:58.239 --> 0:53:01.319 get everybody on board and blow it out, or you 0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:05.080 can build a record little by little by little with credibility. Right, 0:53:05.200 --> 0:53:07.440 you can blow it out if you've got the goods, 0:53:08.120 --> 0:53:14.319 especially you know, you know, obviously a band that's already established. 0:53:16.239 --> 0:53:18.480 You can try to get everybody in one week. But 0:53:18.520 --> 0:53:22.200 it's a mistake if you do that trying to build something, 0:53:22.400 --> 0:53:25.560 because say you get sixty stations the first week, and 0:53:25.640 --> 0:53:28.000 the next week people are still trying to figure outf 0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:30.440 they want it, and now you've only got five and 0:53:30.480 --> 0:53:32.719 then the next week you only got five more and 0:53:32.760 --> 0:53:35.200 it doesn't look good, right, you don't want to do 0:53:35.239 --> 0:53:41.920 it that way, So and I'll you know, And so 0:53:41.960 --> 0:53:43.719 if you work for Donnie as it looks like that. 0:53:44.680 --> 0:53:47.759 If you do it your way because you know how 0:53:47.760 --> 0:53:52.399 to do it, and you get the record top five, right, 0:53:52.640 --> 0:53:56.279 top five, number three, whatever, but it doesn't go to 0:53:56.360 --> 0:53:59.960 number one, Donnie will call you into the office and go, see, 0:54:00.239 --> 0:54:02.799 I told you should have done it my way. Now 0:54:02.920 --> 0:54:06.640 if you do it Donnie's way. And this is true story, guys. 0:54:06.680 --> 0:54:08.040 I had a record that you know, I don't need 0:54:08.040 --> 0:54:09.760 to say the name of the band. And it stops 0:54:09.760 --> 0:54:12.200 at twenty two. Donnie will call you in news office 0:54:12.239 --> 0:54:15.440 and go, s rap, how did you fuck this thing? 0:54:18.840 --> 0:54:20.640 And you can't tell him I did it your way, right, 0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:23.960 you know, it's like you can't you can't win. But 0:54:24.000 --> 0:54:33.799 I will tell you. I'll tell you one very heavy 0:54:33.840 --> 0:54:36.120 story and it's and it's also a Don Einer story. 0:54:38.080 --> 0:54:39.799 And you don't need to know the president's name. But 0:54:41.920 --> 0:54:44.879 I became known. I wanted to be the best, Okay. 0:54:44.880 --> 0:54:46.720 I wanted to be the Michael Jordan of rock promotion. 0:54:47.200 --> 0:54:48.879 You know, I need it to be. That's just that's 0:54:48.880 --> 0:54:51.040 how I am. I just wanted to be it, and 0:54:51.120 --> 0:54:52.440 I tried to be it. And as you read in 0:54:52.480 --> 0:54:53.759 the book, there's a lot of things I do that 0:54:53.840 --> 0:54:56.960 no one ever did because I wanted to make headlines. 0:54:57.000 --> 0:55:00.520 I wanted, I wanted that's just me. I just you know, 0:55:00.560 --> 0:55:02.120 I don't know if it's an ego thing or probably think. 0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:04.880 Whatever it is, it's just how I am. So So 0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:07.239 I was known in the business as this guy. I 0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:12.000 was known by managers and my peers and uh, you know, 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:15.319 I got voted that once by my peers. It was 0:55:15.480 --> 0:55:22.319 very heartwarming. This but this particular president and I were 0:55:23.080 --> 0:55:25.279 just it was like oil and water. And I did 0:55:25.320 --> 0:55:29.719 not quite understand how to just just manage upwards with 0:55:29.760 --> 0:55:32.759 this particular guy. And I was doing great things that 0:55:33.160 --> 0:55:35.640 he was more of a numbers guys, not a music guy. 0:55:35.800 --> 0:55:38.560 And he was signing a lot of acts that just 0:55:38.719 --> 0:55:40.239 you know, you could put him on rock radio, but 0:55:40.280 --> 0:55:42.560 they just they wouldn't stay. It's they're not they're not 0:55:42.680 --> 0:55:44.759 made for you, you know. And he signed some acts 0:55:44.760 --> 0:55:46.600 that he thought were cool and they were just posers 0:55:46.600 --> 0:55:52.320 and whatnot. But you know, for the acts that were working, 0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:57.560 it was fantastic. So, but I would be in meetings 0:55:57.600 --> 0:55:59.320 with him and I'd say the wrong thing because I 0:55:59.360 --> 0:56:02.279 you know, I was as a rebel and I didn't 0:56:02.320 --> 0:56:05.320 know there were two truths. Okay, there's the real truth, 0:56:05.480 --> 0:56:07.000 because he'd always say, no, tell me the truth. I 0:56:07.000 --> 0:56:09.400 want to know the truth. What I finally learned was 0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:12.520 there's two truths. There's the real truth and the truth 0:56:12.760 --> 0:56:14.920 that he'd like to hear. There's a way of telling 0:56:15.000 --> 0:56:17.520 a truth. But you can be artful, and you know, well, 0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:19.120 at that time, I wasn't artful, so I would just 0:56:19.160 --> 0:56:21.800 tell him the truth and it could be painful. Sometimes 0:56:21.840 --> 0:56:23.040 he didn't want to hear the truth, so then he 0:56:23.040 --> 0:56:25.160 would explode and then you know, I could feel this 0:56:25.280 --> 0:56:28.640 pressure and you know, you don't give me a hard time. 0:56:28.680 --> 0:56:33.080 So one day things weren't kind of going his way 0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:34.719 and he goes, come here. He goes, I need to 0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:37.879 talk to you in the head of promotion, and I'm 0:56:37.880 --> 0:56:39.880 not going to mention names because it doesn't move the 0:56:39.920 --> 0:56:42.680 story forward. It's just I don't need to embarrass people's families. 0:56:43.800 --> 0:56:48.560 Head of promotion walks in, Just me down, he goes, listen. 0:56:50.080 --> 0:56:52.440 He goes, I just want you know some of these 0:56:52.480 --> 0:56:54.839 records aren't happening, and I just I want you to 0:56:54.840 --> 0:56:59.480 know something. And he also used the babe ruth analogy. Okay, 0:56:59.640 --> 0:57:02.520 I know you're the bab ruth of rock promotion. You know, 0:57:02.520 --> 0:57:05.200 I know that you're the greatest blah blah blah. He said, well, 0:57:05.239 --> 0:57:10.400 you know what, rap, sometimes the greats have to be traded, like, 0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:13.640 Babe Ruth, they had a trade, Babe Ruth, I didn't 0:57:13.640 --> 0:57:16.240 want you to think about that. And I'd had it 0:57:16.240 --> 0:57:19.320 with this guy, right, And I'm telling you, Bob, I'm not. 0:57:19.480 --> 0:57:22.240 I'm not. I'm not. If I get well, if I 0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:23.600 get mad, you don't want to see it. I mean, 0:57:23.840 --> 0:57:26.120 but it takes a lot right to get me excited. 0:57:27.200 --> 0:57:30.000 And I finally had it with this guy and I 0:57:30.240 --> 0:57:33.400 just exploded in his fucking face. It's just me and 0:57:33.520 --> 0:57:36.720 him and had a promotion sitting across the table, and 0:57:36.760 --> 0:57:40.440 I'm like, what the fuck you like, are you fucking 0:57:40.560 --> 0:57:43.320 kidding me? I go, I do this and I do that, 0:57:43.400 --> 0:57:45.800 and okay, so you signed this partner's effront. Could it 0:57:45.920 --> 0:57:49.040 be the fucking records? Is it possible? It could be 0:57:49.160 --> 0:57:53.120 the fucking record? And I'm screaming at him. I mean like, 0:57:53.240 --> 0:57:55.640 I'm in his face. Right, I'm done, I'm gonna quit. 0:57:55.720 --> 0:57:59.439 I don't care. I had it, Okay, nobody's ever seen 0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:01.240 the head of motion was freaking out. He was. I'm 0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:03.440 looking at him. He's turning green purple. He's like he's 0:58:03.520 --> 0:58:06.160 never seen anything like it. And I'm in this guy's face, 0:58:06.200 --> 0:58:09.440 I'm like, fuck you you have no fucking idea. Is 0:58:09.480 --> 0:58:12.800 it possible? Is it possible? And and it's more animated 0:58:12.960 --> 0:58:14.760 than I'm telling you now. I don't want to get 0:58:14.760 --> 0:58:17.240 there because it's it's it's you would think you would 0:58:17.240 --> 0:58:19.880 put me in a rubber room. Okay, I've exploded at 0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:24.280 this guy. It's insane. Okay. And the guy I just 0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:26.880 had it and he looks at me, he goes, oh, whoa, 0:58:26.880 --> 0:58:28.280 come down. I think he thought I was gonna have 0:58:28.280 --> 0:58:30.960 a heart attack. I was that that was that fucking 0:58:31.040 --> 0:58:34.040 nuts and he and and he said, who whoa whoa 0:58:34.040 --> 0:58:36.800 whoa wrap rap rap whoa whoa whoa whoa. Just hang on. 0:58:37.120 --> 0:58:39.240 I got to think about what you're saying. Just just 0:58:39.280 --> 0:58:41.280 hang on, like I gotta think about what you're saying. 0:58:41.880 --> 0:58:43.680 And he and he and he looked at me, wrap, 0:58:43.720 --> 0:58:45.760 please just take it easy and let me think about 0:58:45.800 --> 0:58:49.640 what you're saying. He left, and the head of promotion said, 0:58:50.640 --> 0:58:53.720 I want to shake your hand, and I go why 0:58:53.840 --> 0:58:56.640 And he says, because I never seen anybody go at 0:58:56.760 --> 0:58:59.959 that guy like that, and I've never seen that guy 0:59:00.120 --> 0:59:03.200 back down. So he said, I want to shake your hand, 0:59:03.600 --> 0:59:05.360 and I was like, fuck shaking my hand. I'm out 0:59:05.360 --> 0:59:08.720 of here. Fuck you, fuck him. I quit. He's chasing 0:59:08.720 --> 0:59:11.040 me down holiday. You can't quit rap, listen to me, 0:59:11.120 --> 0:59:14.000 he goes, you can't quit. He goes, it's three o'clock. 0:59:14.440 --> 0:59:16.160 Go home. Trust me, there's what you need to do. 0:59:16.640 --> 0:59:20.520 Go home, talk to Sharon, have a drink, report back 0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:23.880 the next thing in the morning. And this guy was 0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:25.760 a really good guy. Wasn't the great promotion met of 0:59:25.760 --> 0:59:29.240 all time? And he said, look, just just just do 0:59:29.360 --> 0:59:31.000 me a favor, like calm down, go home. And he 0:59:31.080 --> 0:59:34.480 was right. I went home, talked to Sharon, had a drink, 0:59:35.080 --> 0:59:38.840 came back and it was fine, and the president was 0:59:38.920 --> 0:59:42.600 better towards me. And in a million years, I never 0:59:42.600 --> 0:59:45.720 thought I'd go off at anybody like that, especially a 0:59:45.720 --> 0:59:48.600 record company president. So he could get to I mean, 0:59:48.600 --> 0:59:50.600 so if you asked me, did it ever get to me? Okay, 0:59:50.600 --> 0:59:53.760 that's the that's the one time where you know, God, 0:59:53.840 --> 0:59:56.120 he could get to you in a different way it 0:59:56.440 --> 0:59:59.800 would frustrate you. But I but I never was that 1:00:00.400 --> 1:00:06.600 so upset. Was like I've had it, you know, and 1:00:07.040 --> 1:00:08.600 you know, I don't know, like you said, how did 1:00:08.640 --> 1:00:10.000 I survive? I don't know, By the grace of God, 1:00:10.000 --> 1:00:11.520 because that guy could have left right away and wrote 1:00:11.520 --> 1:00:13.640 me off. You could have. He could have. He could 1:00:13.680 --> 1:00:15.600 have went back and said, you know what, just just 1:00:15.640 --> 1:00:18.320 give wrap his papers. But he didn't. And I think 1:00:18.320 --> 1:00:22.880 he didn't because he knew I was a winner. And 1:00:22.920 --> 1:00:25.600 here's something else. My wife asked me, why do you 1:00:25.640 --> 1:00:29.200 want to stay there? And I said, because even though 1:00:29.400 --> 1:00:33.880 this guy is breaking my balls daily, he is a winner, 1:00:34.560 --> 1:00:37.840 and I have to be with a winner and I 1:00:37.880 --> 1:00:40.360 and that's why I didn't leave. I said, I'll take it, 1:00:40.600 --> 1:00:43.280 I'll take the heat. I'll have this leapless night. I 1:00:43.400 --> 1:00:46.400 need to be with a winner. I would tell her, Sharon, 1:00:46.880 --> 1:00:49.680 he's that, So I'm going to stay, and I didn't. 1:00:49.680 --> 1:00:51.880 He left, you know, so not gone to the next president. 1:00:59.480 --> 1:01:03.600 Okay, you were going to quit at that time? Were 1:01:03.640 --> 1:01:04.800 you fearful? Oh? 1:01:04.880 --> 1:01:06.040 Not really. I was just sorry. 1:01:06.800 --> 1:01:10.160 I'm going in the opposite direction. Were you ever fearful 1:01:10.200 --> 1:01:11.480 you were going to get fired? 1:01:14.600 --> 1:01:16.840 No? 1:01:16.840 --> 1:01:18.920 No, not really. 1:01:19.040 --> 1:01:20.960 Okay, then let me give it one other thing. You 1:01:21.200 --> 1:01:27.920 literally start, as you say at the beginning of rock promotion, seventies, 1:01:28.400 --> 1:01:32.840 great era you have, you know, CBS records crashes seventy 1:01:32.920 --> 1:01:37.040 nine eighty. But let's move past that. MTV comes along. 1:01:38.440 --> 1:01:41.200 Seventy nine. Herbie Herbert came into my office. Okay, you're 1:01:41.200 --> 1:01:44.760 gonna love this. He was bummed out because Journey had 1:01:44.760 --> 1:01:50.480 only sold two million records. He was trestphoning. I was not, Herbie, 1:01:50.520 --> 1:01:52.680 you know how fucking lucky you are? You so too million. 1:01:52.680 --> 1:01:54.439 But we still formally and I go, I know we're 1:01:54.440 --> 1:01:57.560 in trouble. It's gonna pass. It's a fucking phase. Herbie 1:01:57.560 --> 1:01:59.680 Herbert's upset because he's to only so too much. 1:01:59.760 --> 1:02:02.160 I just remember Breakfast in America was number one for 1:02:02.240 --> 1:02:06.080 some amazing number of weeks and sold like less than 1:02:06.120 --> 1:02:10.560 fifty percent of what records normally had. But we get 1:02:10.600 --> 1:02:15.240 to the MTV era, and concomminantly with the MTV era, 1:02:15.400 --> 1:02:19.840 we have the CD. The CD they tell all the 1:02:19.880 --> 1:02:24.040 acts take a half rate. I know the people who 1:02:24.120 --> 1:02:27.400 ran those labels they made not only did the labels 1:02:27.440 --> 1:02:31.080 make so much money, the executives you know, I know, 1:02:31.360 --> 1:02:33.640 they're friends of mine. I know be personal stories. So 1:02:33.720 --> 1:02:38.600 my question is, as this is going on, and once 1:02:38.640 --> 1:02:43.200 you hit the eighties and especially the nineties, promotion people 1:02:43.320 --> 1:02:48.280 everybody at the record company has a lawyer. To what 1:02:48.440 --> 1:02:52.280 degree did you negotiate your salary and what were those 1:02:52.360 --> 1:02:53.480 experiences like. 1:02:56.440 --> 1:02:59.600 Well, you know, I had an attorney and he saw 1:02:59.640 --> 1:03:04.200 what I did for the label and he was This 1:03:04.280 --> 1:03:09.400 guy is known's Gary B. Baker. He was very amped guy. 1:03:09.560 --> 1:03:11.040 When I first met him. He said, look, there's two 1:03:11.080 --> 1:03:14.000 kinds of lawyers. There's nice lawyers and there's really, you know, 1:03:14.080 --> 1:03:15.840 rough and tough lawyers. You got to decide which one 1:03:15.880 --> 1:03:17.680 you want. Him the rough and tough lawyer. I said, well, 1:03:17.680 --> 1:03:19.480 I'll just moved to New York. Gary, I think I'm 1:03:19.480 --> 1:03:23.000 going to take the rough and tough lawyer. The guy 1:03:23.040 --> 1:03:24.640 was amazing. He beat the Bank of New York for 1:03:24.680 --> 1:03:26.080 sharing in me. I mean, the guy beat the Bank 1:03:26.120 --> 1:03:29.040 of New York on the situation we had. So so 1:03:29.080 --> 1:03:32.360 he would negotiate for me, and it got so amped 1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:35.680 that the people in business affairs would call me and 1:03:35.720 --> 1:03:39.080 they say, look, rap, we got the message. You got 1:03:39.080 --> 1:03:41.920 to ask Gary to back off, you know, just because 1:03:41.960 --> 1:03:43.840 he knew what I did and he wanted me to 1:03:43.840 --> 1:03:46.200 make more money. He said, rather, they're not paying you 1:03:46.200 --> 1:03:48.400 what you're what you're you know what you deserve that 1:03:49.200 --> 1:03:50.760 I know what you do, I see what you're doing. 1:03:50.920 --> 1:03:53.800 You know for all these acts you know, and I said, Gary, great, 1:03:54.160 --> 1:03:57.320 you know, And then what would happen is then you'd 1:03:57.320 --> 1:04:00.240 walk in and then you would see Donnie okay, you know, 1:04:02.040 --> 1:04:05.200 and Donnie would and Donnie would say, look, Rap, it's 1:04:05.200 --> 1:04:08.360 a corporation. It's a it's a it's you know, it's 1:04:08.400 --> 1:04:11.640 a grid. You're not the head of promotion. You're ahead 1:04:11.640 --> 1:04:14.120 of rock promotion, you know, which is even one step 1:04:14.120 --> 1:04:15.880 down from the head of top forty promotion. Because, as 1:04:15.920 --> 1:04:18.400 you know, most of the music, most of the money 1:04:18.520 --> 1:04:20.440 is made with you know, big hit records. Even though 1:04:20.440 --> 1:04:23.480 we're making a shitload of money on rock radio. I 1:04:23.560 --> 1:04:27.960 can't give you what Gary is asking. I can't, but 1:04:28.000 --> 1:04:31.919 I'll give you this. If I give you this, will 1:04:31.960 --> 1:04:34.520 you be okay? Or are we going to have a problem? 1:04:35.280 --> 1:04:38.000 And then I'd look at at you know, you know, 1:04:38.120 --> 1:04:41.720 at Donnie, and I'd say, Donnie, thanks very much. That'd 1:04:41.760 --> 1:04:43.440 be great. I appreciate it, thanks, and we don't have 1:04:43.480 --> 1:04:48.040 a problem. I was always about longevity when I would 1:04:48.080 --> 1:04:50.920 be asked every once in a while to leave, you know, 1:04:51.240 --> 1:04:53.760 for another company or some new company that wanted to 1:04:54.640 --> 1:04:58.640 sort of poached me from the label for a lot 1:04:58.640 --> 1:05:00.120 of more money, because that's how it was like, if 1:05:00.320 --> 1:05:01.840 they wanted to get you, they'd have to give you 1:05:01.960 --> 1:05:04.880 tons of more money. And I got offered tons of money. 1:05:06.000 --> 1:05:08.600 But I never wanted to leave, because how do you 1:05:08.680 --> 1:05:12.520 leave this roster? Right? They're all there. I became friends 1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:13.280 with all these people. 1:05:14.000 --> 1:05:14.120 You know. 1:05:14.160 --> 1:05:15.880 It's like, yeah, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go work 1:05:15.880 --> 1:05:17.240 for a new company and I'm going to make a 1:05:17.240 --> 1:05:20.200 lot of money. But it's just money, right, I'm going 1:05:20.280 --> 1:05:22.240 to be working Jake the Snake in the midgets when 1:05:22.240 --> 1:05:24.840 I could be talking to Bob Dylan like, well, there's 1:05:25.160 --> 1:05:28.000 no brainer. Like I just I just wanted to stay 1:05:28.000 --> 1:05:29.760 there as long as I could. And I stayed there 1:05:29.760 --> 1:05:32.160 as long as I stayed there till they just started 1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:34.840 downsizing as the business change, and you know they were 1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:40.680 giving you know, early retirement packages. You know, I just 1:05:40.800 --> 1:05:43.560 stayed there as long as I could. You know, in fact, 1:05:43.600 --> 1:05:46.080 I told him, I said, you guys are nuts. I said, 1:05:46.200 --> 1:05:49.040 right now, in my life, if you want to, they didn't. 1:05:49.040 --> 1:05:50.880 They just couldn't pay us the salaries that we were 1:05:50.920 --> 1:05:53.640 making anymore. I said, you should go to people like 1:05:53.720 --> 1:05:57.520 me and Don de Vito, who was Springsteen's and Bob 1:05:57.600 --> 1:05:59.960 Dylan's and really Joel's A and R got famous an R. 1:06:00.640 --> 1:06:02.720 I said, you should go to people like Don and 1:06:02.760 --> 1:06:04.800 me and say, look, we can't pay you this money anymore, 1:06:05.000 --> 1:06:07.120 but you know what, we'll give you a contract expansion, 1:06:07.560 --> 1:06:12.000 a contract, you know, extension. We'll pay you this but 1:06:12.120 --> 1:06:14.439 for longer, just because we want you guys to stay here. 1:06:14.960 --> 1:06:17.120 I said, you guys are making a mistake. I said, 1:06:17.200 --> 1:06:20.160 I've had the right of my life. I'm ready to go. 1:06:20.560 --> 1:06:23.240 It's okay, I said, but you're making a mistake because 1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:25.440 what's going to happen is all these bands that come in, 1:06:25.560 --> 1:06:27.520 because every band that ever came in, they wanted to 1:06:27.520 --> 1:06:30.600 hang out with me and Don because they wanted to 1:06:30.600 --> 1:06:32.440 talk to the guys who worked with Bob Dylan and 1:06:32.440 --> 1:06:36.200 Bruce Springsteen and Pink Floyd. You're going to be left 1:06:36.200 --> 1:06:38.400 with kids and you're gonna have an imprint, it's gonna 1:06:38.400 --> 1:06:40.720 be a red label, but your heart's going to be gone, Like, 1:06:40.760 --> 1:06:43.800 don't you get it? And they told me they My 1:06:43.880 --> 1:06:46.560 boss at the time said, you know what, we even 1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:50.280 know it and you know Midst the corporation and we 1:06:50.360 --> 1:06:54.040 work for them. And I said, fine, you know, you 1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:55.400 know it's up to you. I said, I've had the 1:06:55.480 --> 1:06:58.080 right of my life. I said, but you know it's 1:06:58.160 --> 1:07:00.120 I wouldn't do it this way. 1:07:00.760 --> 1:07:03.600 So you meet your wife Sharon at summer camp. There 1:07:03.640 --> 1:07:07.200 are a couple of bumps. Ultimately you get married. This 1:07:07.280 --> 1:07:12.120 is a twenty four to seven business, like Jeffrey Katzenberg 1:07:12.680 --> 1:07:15.800 said it Disney when he was there. If you're not 1:07:15.920 --> 1:07:18.920 coming in on Saturday, don't even think about coming in 1:07:18.960 --> 1:07:23.680 on Sunday. So how did that work? Is she just 1:07:23.720 --> 1:07:26.760 a special person who could deal with the fact that 1:07:26.800 --> 1:07:29.640 you were gone and working or your mind was elsewhere 1:07:29.680 --> 1:07:30.280 all the time. 1:07:34.920 --> 1:07:37.640 I will say she's a special person and that she's 1:07:37.800 --> 1:07:46.280 very strong. I tried to walk a fine line because 1:07:46.280 --> 1:07:50.480 I didn't I saw some of the pitfalls that people 1:07:50.680 --> 1:07:53.200 you know, that were around me, that were falling into 1:07:53.240 --> 1:07:56.640 and marriages were falling apart. And because it is a 1:07:56.640 --> 1:07:58.480 twenty four to seven business, you could be out every 1:07:58.600 --> 1:08:00.720 night of the week. If not for your own act, 1:08:01.000 --> 1:08:03.240 somebody else calls and goes, hey, man, I've got the 1:08:03.280 --> 1:08:04.640 next big thing. You got to come down and see 1:08:04.640 --> 1:08:08.880 it a lot of hours. And it's a lifestyle. There 1:08:08.920 --> 1:08:12.760 is no Saturday Sunday. It's just it never ends. They're 1:08:12.760 --> 1:08:16.160 all the same, you know, except for obviously Tuesday's air 1:08:16.200 --> 1:08:19.280 play Day and you know the business week. But you're 1:08:19.320 --> 1:08:25.400 without people. You're out with people all the time. So 1:08:25.560 --> 1:08:29.400 I am. I tried to walk a fine line, and 1:08:29.439 --> 1:08:33.760 we made a deal. I said, look, there are certain 1:08:33.800 --> 1:08:35.920 nights I have to be out. There's certain nights that 1:08:36.080 --> 1:08:39.280 I'm going to want to be out, and I'm going 1:08:39.320 --> 1:08:42.559 to have to because I remember when someone had called 1:08:42.600 --> 1:08:44.840 me to the Troubadour to say, hey, there's this new 1:08:44.880 --> 1:08:46.800 guy out in John, I have a seat for you. 1:08:46.800 --> 1:08:48.680 You need to see this. You know, those kinds of 1:08:48.680 --> 1:08:51.360 things you'd want to be at. So I said, look, 1:08:52.680 --> 1:08:55.679 it was easier before we had kids, of course, because 1:08:55.760 --> 1:08:58.200 she could go everywhere with me. So we went to 1:08:58.280 --> 1:09:01.040 all the parties together, we went to all the shows together. 1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:04.439 So she was part of the life style. Even though 1:09:04.479 --> 1:09:06.439 if I had to work late some nights, she didn't 1:09:06.479 --> 1:09:10.320 want to go. When we start to have kids, it's different, okay. 1:09:10.360 --> 1:09:14.519 So I worked twelve years on the West coast for Columbia, 1:09:14.520 --> 1:09:15.920 and then we move east in eighty for me to 1:09:16.000 --> 1:09:21.880 run the rock department. So now you know, I told her, 1:09:21.920 --> 1:09:25.639 I said, look, this this obviously, this gig is more 1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:28.600 amped up, and I don't know if I'm going to 1:09:28.640 --> 1:09:30.120 be home. Well, I know I'm not going to be 1:09:30.200 --> 1:09:31.760 home in time to put the kids to bed. I'm 1:09:31.760 --> 1:09:33.040 going to see him in the morning. I said, tell 1:09:33.040 --> 1:09:35.920 you what, though, you take care of them all week, 1:09:36.400 --> 1:09:39.040 on the weekends, I'm going to take over. You do 1:09:39.120 --> 1:09:43.800 whatever you want. I will completely take over. And it 1:09:44.760 --> 1:09:49.080 would be kind of comical sometimes because you know, i'd 1:09:49.520 --> 1:09:51.559 be on the road for you know, four days, four 1:09:51.640 --> 1:09:55.360 nights without any little sleep. I'd come home, I'm totally trashed. 1:09:55.479 --> 1:09:58.160 Open the door. She's got these two little you know boys. 1:09:58.600 --> 1:10:01.120 She holds them out to me. She goes here, I've 1:10:01.120 --> 1:10:05.880 had them all week. I'm like, Ahi, guys, it's your 1:10:05.960 --> 1:10:09.000 rock and roll dad. Just I just need a cup 1:10:09.080 --> 1:10:11.760 of coffee. Just give me a second and I'll be 1:10:11.840 --> 1:10:18.120 with you. So and then they didn't understand. So on 1:10:18.160 --> 1:10:19.840 the weekends, i'd be with them. But but but then 1:10:19.880 --> 1:10:22.240 i'd take a cat nap, you know, every so often, 1:10:22.280 --> 1:10:24.400 like we'd be in the basement playing or you know, 1:10:24.439 --> 1:10:26.680 whenever in the front line. They'd see me take it. 1:10:26.800 --> 1:10:30.760 Catch cat nap Dad. And they're they're three years apart. 1:10:30.880 --> 1:10:33.679 Two boys, right, why are you? Why are you always sleeping? 1:10:34.160 --> 1:10:37.639 We don't understand why you're sleeping. I go, well, it's 1:10:37.640 --> 1:10:41.120 because I work really really hard. Well, we don't understand it. 1:10:41.160 --> 1:10:42.840 I go, like, come to work with me one day 1:10:42.840 --> 1:10:44.759 and then you'll you'll get it. Okay, Oh yeah, okay, 1:10:45.280 --> 1:10:46.960 So I take them. They're little, like Amra all they were, 1:10:47.000 --> 1:10:48.760 but they're you know, I don't know, they're like eight, 1:10:48.840 --> 1:10:50.920 and you know, they're three years apart. So they're eight 1:10:50.960 --> 1:10:52.800 and five or whatever they are, I don't know, six 1:10:52.840 --> 1:10:55.599 and nine. I take them to work, I go home. 1:10:56.080 --> 1:10:59.160 I go, okay, so do you get it? Nah? Dad, 1:10:59.160 --> 1:11:02.719 we don't get it. All you do is play listen 1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:06.040 to They said all you do is listen to records 1:11:06.080 --> 1:11:08.080 all day, and then you get on the phone and 1:11:08.160 --> 1:11:11.760 yell at people. And I go, no, no, I don't 1:11:11.840 --> 1:11:13.800 yell at people. I'm not that guy. That's our vase off. 1:11:13.880 --> 1:11:15.920 He's the yeller. I'm not the yeller. I'm not that guy. 1:11:16.120 --> 1:11:19.120 Oh no, Dade yellow people. Oh no, no, I'm telling you, 1:11:19.439 --> 1:11:21.920 I'm not that guy. Yeah. So no, we don't get it. 1:11:22.120 --> 1:11:24.439 You you you you you play records, you dance around 1:11:24.479 --> 1:11:26.200 and then you get on the phone and yellow people 1:11:26.360 --> 1:11:28.519 and so there was no you know, and then what 1:11:28.520 --> 1:11:30.280 am I gonna do? Take them to shows? Which I did? 1:11:30.439 --> 1:11:33.639 Does is that helpful? Not really? You know, Hey, look 1:11:33.720 --> 1:11:35.839 you know yeah this is Pink Floyd. Yeah, you're backstage 1:11:35.840 --> 1:11:39.360 eating the ReBs. Cool. Right, It's like you know, but 1:11:39.439 --> 1:11:45.000 it was, it's it's it is very hard. Uh and uh, 1:11:45.200 --> 1:11:49.680 I to be honest, I would say that there was 1:11:49.680 --> 1:11:52.080 a time that it took its toll on our marriage. 1:11:52.520 --> 1:11:55.080 It's just it's just it's it's it's just got so big. 1:11:55.640 --> 1:11:59.360 But if you know that, you'll sit down, like you know, 1:11:59.400 --> 1:12:01.840 if you have a really great life's partner like I do, 1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:06.000 you'll sit down and go, look, since we're messed up 1:12:06.040 --> 1:12:08.439 and we got to fix this, you know, and if 1:12:08.439 --> 1:12:10.280 we can't fix it, let's go talk to somebody that'll 1:12:10.280 --> 1:12:14.080 help us fix it. But I think if your priorities 1:12:14.400 --> 1:12:18.280 are correct, you know, and my porties were always my 1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:23.479 life and my wife and my kids, that's reality, right. 1:12:23.520 --> 1:12:26.520 This other thing is Disneyland. I'm having fun in Disneyland, 1:12:27.080 --> 1:12:30.840 but I saw too many people live in Disneyland and 1:12:30.880 --> 1:12:33.000 then when their job was over and they lost their 1:12:33.080 --> 1:12:35.920 job for whatever reason. They try to go back home, 1:12:35.920 --> 1:12:38.400 but home's ruined. They try to call their friends and 1:12:38.520 --> 1:12:42.599 nobody picks up the phone. You know, a lot of 1:12:42.840 --> 1:12:44.680 in this business, a lot of people think, you know, 1:12:44.760 --> 1:12:47.920 your colleagues are your close friends. It's not always the case. 1:12:48.600 --> 1:12:53.680 So I think from the get go, my priorities were correct, 1:12:54.000 --> 1:12:57.040 and I tried really hard, you know. And yeah, and 1:12:57.080 --> 1:12:59.400 when it came to that time where I knew it 1:12:59.439 --> 1:13:01.160 wasn't right, you know, we said on and had a 1:13:01.160 --> 1:13:01.920 long talk about it. 1:13:02.560 --> 1:13:06.400 Okay, we talked a little bit about Herbie Herbert. What 1:13:06.760 --> 1:13:11.720 makes a good manager, and let's be realistic, Okay. In there, 1:13:11.760 --> 1:13:15.160 there's some managers. They come in the building, they work 1:13:15.240 --> 1:13:20.320 the halls. Some people are nice, some people yell. In addition, 1:13:20.520 --> 1:13:25.600 some people represent more commercially successful acts than others. So 1:13:26.880 --> 1:13:30.840 in addition to that, there are people who you know, 1:13:31.360 --> 1:13:33.280 you want to get off your back and therefore you 1:13:33.320 --> 1:13:36.519 do the work for them. So tell me about managers. 1:13:38.560 --> 1:13:44.880 Everybody has their own style for me, and I would say, 1:13:45.280 --> 1:13:48.720 having worked with so many managers, that I think the 1:13:48.760 --> 1:13:54.960 ones that actually get the most out of people. And 1:13:55.000 --> 1:13:58.960 I would say that Irving Azof is the exception, because 1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:03.439 I was, you know, a notorious yeller screamer. But IRV 1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:06.280 was also You could talk to him, but it was 1:14:06.320 --> 1:14:08.840 just his style, you know. I mean, I already wound 1:14:08.920 --> 1:14:11.080 up doing some really great things for me and I 1:14:11.080 --> 1:14:12.599 have the big respect for him. But you know, early 1:14:12.680 --> 1:14:14.680 on him, he called me up. Yeah, it's in my book, right, 1:14:15.040 --> 1:14:17.360 I want klos and I want to know, right, that's 1:14:17.360 --> 1:14:20.080 all he said. That's five times lear up the fun, 1:14:21.760 --> 1:14:24.240 you know. But I understood his His MO was he's 1:14:24.240 --> 1:14:26.760 going to just get everything he can out out of you, 1:14:26.800 --> 1:14:28.080 and he can go back to his artists and say, 1:14:28.080 --> 1:14:29.880 look I got everything at him. But you don't have 1:14:29.920 --> 1:14:31.760 to be that way. But I would say that the 1:14:31.800 --> 1:14:38.880 best managers were the managers that brought you into their world, 1:14:39.240 --> 1:14:41.240 made you a part of their family, made you a 1:14:41.240 --> 1:14:45.200 part of the gang. Okay, Herbie Herbert, whenever you went 1:14:45.600 --> 1:14:47.120 me and the guys are doing this. You come here, 1:14:47.160 --> 1:14:49.240 we're in Hawaii at a convention. Come to our house. 1:14:50.200 --> 1:14:55.680 Steve Ororke, Pink Floyd made me feel like part of 1:14:55.720 --> 1:14:58.360 the family. And I got to know David Gilmour and 1:14:58.439 --> 1:15:02.080 Nick Mason and Roger Waters in intimate ways. Right. That 1:15:02.120 --> 1:15:05.920 wouldn't happen if they didn't open the door. And I'm 1:15:05.920 --> 1:15:07.519 sure he told him, this is going to be good 1:15:07.520 --> 1:15:12.719 for you to get to know this guy, right, Bruce Allen, 1:15:13.800 --> 1:15:19.280 tough guy, but but great guy, right. Great makes you 1:15:19.320 --> 1:15:22.320 a part of that, makes you a part of his team, 1:15:22.840 --> 1:15:24.800 makes you want to kill for him because he's just 1:15:24.840 --> 1:15:29.360 a great fucking guy. Right. If you're a manager that 1:15:29.360 --> 1:15:31.920 would come into my office, and I had some big 1:15:31.960 --> 1:15:36.080 time managers who didn't have the gravitas of IRV as 1:15:36.120 --> 1:15:41.720 off or the respect from me because I saw they 1:15:41.800 --> 1:15:44.479 stepped in shit or whatever that you know, you know, 1:15:44.600 --> 1:15:46.640 IRV has always had my biggest respect. So yeah, ever 1:15:46.680 --> 1:15:48.120 you want to call up and let's go at it, fine, 1:15:48.120 --> 1:15:51.519 I don't care, because you know I have respect. But 1:15:51.560 --> 1:15:53.599 these people would come into my office and we'd come 1:15:53.600 --> 1:15:55.599 out of a meeting and you know, everybody said, we're 1:15:55.640 --> 1:15:57.640 did this, this and this, and I'll never forget this. 1:15:57.680 --> 1:16:01.439 One guy in particular, big, big, big uh, you know, 1:16:01.640 --> 1:16:06.760 English man came into my office and said, so you 1:16:06.800 --> 1:16:08.679 wanted to pin me, so you're gonna do all this right? 1:16:09.320 --> 1:16:11.680 Like got it? It's like this is what you have 1:16:11.760 --> 1:16:15.000 to do. You got it right? And then he walked 1:16:15.000 --> 1:16:17.800 out of my office and literally out loud, I said 1:16:17.840 --> 1:16:19.519 to the walls because I knew he was walking by. 1:16:20.200 --> 1:16:24.040 Fuck you see you in my rearview mirror. Lose you know, 1:16:24.120 --> 1:16:26.519 I don't even want to talk to you again. And 1:16:26.560 --> 1:16:30.600 I did the minimal, minimal amount because that guy was 1:16:30.800 --> 1:16:34.240 such a fucking asshole. I was like, yeah, okay, well 1:16:34.240 --> 1:16:35.760 you're not a race off, so guess what. You don't 1:16:35.800 --> 1:16:40.439 get to talk to me like that. So h But 1:16:40.479 --> 1:16:43.000 I think that the best ones were the ones because Bob, 1:16:43.760 --> 1:16:45.639 you know, one of the reasons I wrote the book 1:16:45.800 --> 1:16:48.800 I want I wanted people to know the family. We 1:16:48.800 --> 1:16:51.439 were all a family. Oh yeah, we have fights, you know, 1:16:51.560 --> 1:16:54.640 like a family has fights. We'd all get along, but 1:16:54.720 --> 1:17:00.760 this is a family, Okay, you got I'm trying to 1:17:00.800 --> 1:17:04.559 think this is Herbie. I mean, my favorite managers are Herbie, Herbert, 1:17:04.960 --> 1:17:10.519 Bruce Allen, Steve O'Rourke. They're interchangeable in different ways, but 1:17:10.600 --> 1:17:16.400 they all made me feel like, you know, like like okay, 1:17:16.439 --> 1:17:19.400 it's this give and take right. The guys in Pink Floyd. 1:17:20.200 --> 1:17:23.519 By the time I'm working with them, they're elite. They 1:17:23.560 --> 1:17:25.599 don't need to do anything, they don't want to do anything. 1:17:25.600 --> 1:17:27.200 They don't want to do interviews, they don't have to 1:17:27.240 --> 1:17:29.400 do anything. And I'm telling them, guys, listen to me. 1:17:30.240 --> 1:17:32.320 You could be bigger. Believe it or not. You can 1:17:32.360 --> 1:17:35.160 do more, we can reach more people. I'm going to 1:17:35.200 --> 1:17:36.920 ask you to do some things. I know you're not 1:17:36.920 --> 1:17:38.479 gonna want to do them, but I'm just tell just 1:17:38.840 --> 1:17:42.240 take a step my way, you know. Go meet Jim Ladd, 1:17:42.280 --> 1:17:44.840 do an interview, Meet some radio people. They're gonna love you. 1:17:44.880 --> 1:17:48.000 They've been playing your records their whole life. I want 1:17:48.040 --> 1:17:50.479 to borrow you know, your your giant pig and flight 1:17:50.560 --> 1:17:53.160 over radio stations. I want to do these things for 1:17:53.200 --> 1:17:56.000 you because I love your music. I mean, I'm a 1:17:56.040 --> 1:17:58.400 guitar guy. I mean me and Gilmour would spend all 1:17:58.479 --> 1:18:02.519 kinds of hours just talking about guitars. It's a family, right, Okay. 1:18:02.560 --> 1:18:05.280 You tell me you get close to a band like that, 1:18:05.320 --> 1:18:10.639 they know that you're killing for them, right, they know it? Okay? Oh, 1:18:11.160 --> 1:18:14.360 well and you read about it my book. Oh we 1:18:14.439 --> 1:18:16.519 have a Christmas present for you. It's a thank you 1:18:16.560 --> 1:18:18.920 for all you did you know on Momentary Labs or 1:18:18.920 --> 1:18:20.559 a reason and frankly for all the things you've done 1:18:20.560 --> 1:18:22.680 for us over the years. We have a you know, 1:18:22.880 --> 1:18:28.240 a thank you President. You know what's that? Oh, you 1:18:28.240 --> 1:18:30.639 come and play with us one song live with Pink 1:18:30.640 --> 1:18:33.960 Floyd And I'm like, oh, a rehearsal right, that'd be great. 1:18:34.000 --> 1:18:37.960 They go, no, no, proper gig. I'm like, what in front 1:18:38.000 --> 1:18:40.160 of people? Oh yeah, I know in London, proper gig, 1:18:40.240 --> 1:18:43.360 London arena. I'm going to play a song, like you know, 1:18:43.400 --> 1:18:45.679 and I talk to the manager because you know, God, 1:18:45.680 --> 1:18:48.920 don't talking to Gilmore talking to Magic Steve, you know, Like, 1:18:48.920 --> 1:18:51.080 I'm a real guitar player, Like, I'm not going to 1:18:51.120 --> 1:18:52.280 go I'm not a poser. I don't want to go 1:18:52.320 --> 1:18:55.200 up there and pose. It's not that's not my you know, No, no, 1:18:55.240 --> 1:18:59.120 he goes rap. Don't you get it? Yes, Gilmore knows you. 1:18:59.360 --> 1:19:01.040 You guys can talk abot guitars all the time. That's 1:19:01.080 --> 1:19:03.120 the gift, don't you get it? Like, yes, you play 1:19:03.160 --> 1:19:05.200 You're in ping Floyd for seven fucking minutes, don't you 1:19:05.240 --> 1:19:12.640 get it. I'm like, holy shit, Okay, Bob, who does that? Well, 1:19:12.720 --> 1:19:15.840 how's that going to happen? Who does that? Okay, it 1:19:15.960 --> 1:19:21.479 happens because of of the band and the management and 1:19:21.960 --> 1:19:24.599 you know that whole family of people who you get 1:19:24.600 --> 1:19:27.480 to know. You get to know Storm Thorguson the Great 1:19:27.600 --> 1:19:30.439 Graphic Designer, you get to know the roadies, you get 1:19:30.479 --> 1:19:33.560 to know the guitar tech, Phil Taylor, you know everybody. 1:19:33.920 --> 1:19:37.400 You that kind of management. How do you think I 1:19:37.439 --> 1:19:41.240 promoted them after that? I just traded like so with 1:19:41.320 --> 1:19:44.720 David Gilmore in the London Arena. Are you fucking kidding me? 1:19:45.280 --> 1:19:48.960 Come on? You know that's the best kind of manager 1:19:49.160 --> 1:19:52.880 because you're taking the hill. You know, John Landell, Bruce 1:19:52.920 --> 1:19:56.320 Springsteen Okay, okay, in my top five. Okay, he's in 1:19:56.360 --> 1:19:59.599 my top five. Same thing. Now you're part of Bruce's camp. 1:20:00.400 --> 1:20:03.679 You're taking the hill together. You know, it's beyond celebrity. 1:20:03.720 --> 1:20:06.120 It's it's not about rock star. It's about it's eye 1:20:06.200 --> 1:20:09.080 to eye. It's guys, guys, we're working together, take the hill. 1:20:09.200 --> 1:20:11.519 We're all trying to do the same thing. You know. 1:20:11.680 --> 1:20:17.160 It's it's it's uh, that's that was the most fulfilling 1:20:17.400 --> 1:20:22.960 part of it, right. These people make you a part 1:20:22.960 --> 1:20:26.719 of the gang. You just you feel like you belong. 1:20:27.120 --> 1:20:29.120 So yeah, you're going to kill for those people, Bob. 1:20:37.080 --> 1:20:42.120 Okay, they do call it show business, not show friends. 1:20:42.560 --> 1:20:46.760 So there are bands that are no longer on the 1:20:46.840 --> 1:20:53.360 label for whatever reason. So then do you maintain any contact? 1:20:53.560 --> 1:20:57.280 You know, I do. It's off and on. I'm so 1:20:57.479 --> 1:21:02.800 used to contacting people, you know, when there's a when 1:21:02.800 --> 1:21:05.000 there's a project, we would see you know, we would 1:21:05.040 --> 1:21:08.080 rekindle a friendship every three years or whenever a record 1:21:08.080 --> 1:21:10.599 would come out. It's not, you know. I mean I 1:21:10.680 --> 1:21:13.840 used to be closer to Gilmore, he used to send 1:21:13.880 --> 1:21:18.599 me Christmas card every year. Elvis Costello, but over the years, 1:21:19.280 --> 1:21:21.160 I didn't want to push it. You know, it's not 1:21:21.560 --> 1:21:22.960 you know, like, if you want to be friends, great, 1:21:23.560 --> 1:21:26.320 I don't you know, I didn't like need to be friends. 1:21:26.360 --> 1:21:33.400 I enjoyed our friendships. One guy who I'm believing or not, 1:21:34.040 --> 1:21:37.120 who I'm probably the closest with right now is Bob Geldolf. 1:21:37.640 --> 1:21:40.479 We remain friends over the years. I don't know why. 1:21:40.520 --> 1:21:43.040 We just would see each other or you know, he 1:21:43.080 --> 1:21:45.200 had some legal stuff then you needed help on and 1:21:45.280 --> 1:21:49.840 we just remained buddies. Got invited to his wedding south 1:21:49.880 --> 1:21:51.519 of France, you know a few years ago. I mean, 1:21:52.840 --> 1:21:54.960 he's he's a he's a he's a he's a crack up, 1:21:55.120 --> 1:21:57.519 you know, but you know the other people. Let me 1:21:57.560 --> 1:21:59.880 just say this because I just want to say this 1:21:59.880 --> 1:22:02.439 about certain artists. Okay, Oh, the Bloyster called guys are 1:22:02.520 --> 1:22:04.200 very close friends of mine. For a year, I live 1:22:04.240 --> 1:22:07.320 in this town because of the lead singer lives here 1:22:07.320 --> 1:22:10.160 and he kept me coming out for barbecue. So I 1:22:10.200 --> 1:22:12.360 live in you know, Port Washington, New York. Okay, so, 1:22:12.680 --> 1:22:14.960 but but I just want to make one point. Okay, 1:22:15.040 --> 1:22:17.880 I write this book, you start to reach out for quotes. 1:22:18.160 --> 1:22:20.080 I don't know if you know if I'm going to 1:22:20.160 --> 1:22:24.040 get quotes. Okay, here, Hero, I'll write you, you know, 1:22:24.040 --> 1:22:25.840 if you want, I'll write you what I wrote about you, Like, 1:22:26.000 --> 1:22:29.760 what what do you need? Right? Nothing? Nick Mason two 1:22:29.840 --> 1:22:32.760 days give me the best, most beautiful quote was the 1:22:32.760 --> 1:22:35.000 first one I got. It was like if I stopped 1:22:35.080 --> 1:22:38.559 right there right Elvis Costello, Hey, do you want me 1:22:38.600 --> 1:22:40.320 to send you the book? Do you want me to 1:22:40.320 --> 1:22:42.160 to you know, to to do you need to see 1:22:42.160 --> 1:22:45.360 what I wrote about you? Nothing? Next day quote, Bloyster, 1:22:45.479 --> 1:22:51.760 call it next day quote. You know it's not even 1:22:51.760 --> 1:22:56.240 if we're not friends. There's so much. There's so much, 1:22:57.160 --> 1:23:00.719 you know, brotherhood and sisterhood in all of the stuff 1:23:00.760 --> 1:23:05.599 that we did together. They're there immediately there, you know. 1:23:05.800 --> 1:23:11.200 And for whatever reason, Bob, you know, well. 1:23:11.040 --> 1:23:12.639 I want to talk a big than I know, Bob, 1:23:12.640 --> 1:23:15.120 but that's not the point of my story. Okay, you 1:23:15.360 --> 1:23:21.080 tell the famous story of Bob dissing the radio guys 1:23:21.120 --> 1:23:25.200 when they're in the building the way the story was 1:23:25.280 --> 1:23:30.080 told to me, which was not by you. Was this 1:23:30.400 --> 1:23:35.640 permanently negatively affected the band Boomtown Rat success in America? 1:23:36.320 --> 1:23:38.280 In the book? You say, well, they ended up having 1:23:38.280 --> 1:23:41.559 a hit. Give me your take. 1:23:43.280 --> 1:23:46.080 No, I don't think I wasn't permanent at all. I mean, 1:23:46.120 --> 1:23:48.679 if it was permanent, we wouldn't have had They wouldn't 1:23:48.680 --> 1:23:50.479 nobody would have played. I don't like money. It would 1:23:50.479 --> 1:23:54.080 have never happened if it was permanent. No, it wasn't permanent. 1:23:54.120 --> 1:23:57.720 It's just Bob is full of pisson vinegar, and he 1:23:57.760 --> 1:24:00.000 has a way of shooting himself in the foot. I mean, 1:24:00.240 --> 1:24:05.080 he's very you know, he has no filter. If you 1:24:05.160 --> 1:24:10.439 know him, you know he's he's you know, hey, look, 1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:12.080 you guys are a lot alike. You have no filter, 1:24:12.360 --> 1:24:17.240 right right, right, So Bob is the same way, and 1:24:17.240 --> 1:24:19.680 and look Elvis Costello. I would have to pull out 1:24:19.800 --> 1:24:23.880 sometimes say, oh, look, you're not helping yourself if you 1:24:24.160 --> 1:24:27.360 have certain feelings about certain bands, tell me, don't say 1:24:27.439 --> 1:24:29.559 this on the radio. Is not helping your career, okay. 1:24:29.560 --> 1:24:31.479 And I would have the same conversation with Bob Geldoff. 1:24:32.160 --> 1:24:35.040 Talk to me, do not say this ship on the radio. 1:24:36.000 --> 1:24:39.559 But Bob is a rebel, right, and Bob likes to 1:24:39.600 --> 1:24:47.519 push buttons, and I think in his mind, excuse me, 1:24:48.320 --> 1:24:51.439 he was just giving them a head butt, right, Okay. 1:24:51.560 --> 1:24:55.519 So for those who don't know, there was a big 1:24:55.560 --> 1:25:00.240 consultancy run by Lee Abrams. It was called Superstars. Lee 1:25:00.280 --> 1:25:03.599 Everyone's in charge of sixty rock stations, and he had 1:25:03.600 --> 1:25:07.719 a convention, and you know, we thought, as we usually do, Hey, 1:25:08.000 --> 1:25:10.000 first of all, the Boomtown Rats are amazing band live. 1:25:10.439 --> 1:25:11.680 We said, man, all we got to do is have 1:25:11.720 --> 1:25:14.040 these guys play in front of you know, these programmers 1:25:14.040 --> 1:25:15.560 that they're going to go, holy shit, this band's a 1:25:15.600 --> 1:25:21.120 real band. Let's let's go easy peasy. It was the 1:25:21.200 --> 1:25:24.559 days of the satin jackets. Everybody had satin jackets for 1:25:24.680 --> 1:25:28.799 bands and whatever. Bob's playing a great set, and Bob's 1:25:28.800 --> 1:25:31.640 playing a great set, and he looks out and he 1:25:31.680 --> 1:25:33.400 sees he knows why he's there. He sees all the 1:25:33.520 --> 1:25:36.920 radio people. But Bob's you know, I mean, you're talking 1:25:36.960 --> 1:25:38.680 about a guy, you know, who got in a fight 1:25:38.720 --> 1:25:41.400 with fifty thousand people at you know that, you know, 1:25:41.520 --> 1:25:45.720 the World Music Festival was Like Bob, it's like you 1:25:45.760 --> 1:25:48.160 read about it, write in my books, like so he 1:25:48.439 --> 1:25:50.080 once again in my head butt, Hey, what do you 1:25:50.120 --> 1:25:53.640 think of radio today? Where he goes the audience, what 1:25:53.680 --> 1:25:55.360 do you think of rock radio today? Well, what do 1:25:55.439 --> 1:25:58.120 you when a guy like Bob Geldoff, you know, the 1:25:58.280 --> 1:26:00.320 rebel punk guy is saying, what do you think the 1:26:00.320 --> 1:26:03.080 audience is going to go? Yeah, Well, if you have 1:26:03.120 --> 1:26:05.040 a problem with that, all those guys in the back, 1:26:05.560 --> 1:26:08.000 they're the guys that are running your rock stations today. 1:26:08.040 --> 1:26:09.679 And if you want to change it, you go talk 1:26:09.720 --> 1:26:11.840 to him. Well, Bob's always trying to make the world 1:26:11.840 --> 1:26:16.040 a better place, you know, repair the world. Takun alam great, Bob. 1:26:16.120 --> 1:26:19.360 I like it, you know, But I think he just 1:26:19.439 --> 1:26:21.400 thought he was giving him a head butt. I don't 1:26:21.400 --> 1:26:23.599 think he realized what he had done, because he did 1:26:23.640 --> 1:26:26.679 do some damage that night. Because those guys have egos 1:26:26.920 --> 1:26:29.439 and they're like, oh, really, you know, we're in charge 1:26:29.439 --> 1:26:32.839 of your career. And there were guys that were grumbling 1:26:33.080 --> 1:26:37.160 as they left, you know, and Lee Abrams himself, you know, 1:26:37.280 --> 1:26:40.280 came up to me and Jonathan Caffino, who's the boomtown 1:26:40.320 --> 1:26:45.000 Rats marketing guy, and going really, and I'm like, Lee, 1:26:45.120 --> 1:26:47.960 you know, it's Bob. It's like, you know, come on, 1:26:48.479 --> 1:26:50.120 you got to expect he's just giving you guys a 1:26:50.120 --> 1:26:52.360 head butt. You know, Lee, smart guy like Lee knows 1:26:52.400 --> 1:26:54.760 what's up. So he goes, I know, but not the 1:26:54.800 --> 1:26:56.400 greatest thing you could have done. I said, I know, 1:26:57.160 --> 1:27:01.439 you know, but I said it'll be okay. And it was. 1:27:01.600 --> 1:27:05.960 And I know, Jonathan, our next stop was in Seattle. 1:27:06.080 --> 1:27:07.760 Never forget it keme to we got to do a 1:27:07.760 --> 1:27:09.600 live broadcast right now. We got to we have to 1:27:09.640 --> 1:27:11.880 counteract what just happened. I said, no, no, no, I said, John, 1:27:11.960 --> 1:27:14.800 just just leave it alone. You know, these guys, I know, 1:27:14.840 --> 1:27:17.479 these guys. Just let some space happen, just let the 1:27:17.520 --> 1:27:20.040 air out. I'll talk to these guys one by one, 1:27:20.720 --> 1:27:23.680 you know, and it'll be okay. And it was. I mean, 1:27:23.760 --> 1:27:27.160 by the time, you know, artist Surfacing came out, It's 1:27:27.240 --> 1:27:30.320 huge so it wasn't you know, it wasn't that. It 1:27:30.360 --> 1:27:33.040 was it was just more or less not having you know, 1:27:33.439 --> 1:27:36.040 the records after that or whatever else was happening with 1:27:36.080 --> 1:27:40.760 them on the road or whatever. No, no, there's no permanent. 1:27:40.479 --> 1:27:43.960 Okay, let's go back to rock stars in general, a 1:27:45.560 --> 1:27:49.960 right personal experiences. If you say how great they are 1:27:50.000 --> 1:27:52.200 and how much you love their music, they shut down. 1:27:52.880 --> 1:27:56.479 Whereas like Joe Walsh I used class example, you want 1:27:56.479 --> 1:28:00.240 to talk cam radio with him, you have a regular conversation. 1:28:00.479 --> 1:28:03.320 You have to treat these people as people. But at 1:28:03.360 --> 1:28:08.200 the end of the day, can we say this is 1:28:08.360 --> 1:28:14.120 business or would you consider some of these people real friends? 1:28:15.720 --> 1:28:19.880 Oh, real friends without a doubt. No, it's no real 1:28:19.880 --> 1:28:22.519 friends without a doubt, because the business is the business, 1:28:22.600 --> 1:28:25.080 and the celebrity is the celebrity. And as you say, 1:28:25.760 --> 1:28:28.320 you can have real conversations with people. Now, I will 1:28:28.320 --> 1:28:30.360 admit that it took me a second when it when 1:28:30.360 --> 1:28:33.320 it was bands that were ahead of me, you know, 1:28:33.439 --> 1:28:36.360 like the Floyd guys, and you know, Mick and Keith 1:28:36.439 --> 1:28:39.680 and Bob Dylan. I mean because since I'm seventeen years old, 1:28:39.720 --> 1:28:42.240 mean those guys are deep inside me. I'm you know, 1:28:42.280 --> 1:28:44.080 I will admit to being starstruck. I mean, I don't 1:28:44.080 --> 1:28:47.559 know how you couldn't be. It's you know, But once 1:28:47.560 --> 1:28:49.679 I would get used to it, then you'd have real conversation. 1:28:49.760 --> 1:28:52.080 I mean I used to have love talking to Bob Dylan. 1:28:52.120 --> 1:28:54.200 I mean we we'd have conversations about just being dads. 1:28:54.680 --> 1:28:56.160 You know, how is it being a dad? You know, 1:28:57.120 --> 1:28:58.840 I'm like Bob, and I don't know what to tell 1:28:58.840 --> 1:29:01.280 my kids, Like, you know, guy, I have this whole history, 1:29:01.320 --> 1:29:03.559 you know. And he was like, well, you know, you're lucky, 1:29:03.600 --> 1:29:06.880 you know you can, you know, just don't don't you know, 1:29:06.920 --> 1:29:09.080 you don't have to tell them everything rap, just you know, 1:29:09.240 --> 1:29:11.200 just just tell them some stuff. He goes, look at me, man, 1:29:11.240 --> 1:29:14.000 he goes, My whole life's in the press. Man, my 1:29:14.160 --> 1:29:17.040 the you know, the you know, the women, the drugs. 1:29:17.080 --> 1:29:20.200 I'm busted, you know, like but you you know, and 1:29:20.280 --> 1:29:22.760 we'd have these great conversations. I would love to have 1:29:22.840 --> 1:29:26.439 conversations with Keith Richards and David Gilmore about guitars, because 1:29:26.439 --> 1:29:30.679 these guys are guitar guys. They're rock stars. Second, okay, 1:29:30.880 --> 1:29:34.559 they are guitar players. They love the guitar. It's their friend. 1:29:34.680 --> 1:29:37.720 It's their lover used to talk to guitar guys. It's we're 1:29:37.800 --> 1:29:41.000 like this giant family of people. No, you know, Keith 1:29:41.080 --> 1:29:44.760 Richards is a really cool guy. Okay. I have a 1:29:44.760 --> 1:29:46.360 picture of my book of me and Keith, and I 1:29:46.360 --> 1:29:49.320 took out him when he was you know, however, he 1:29:49.520 --> 1:29:52.559 was eight years old or somebody to see the rolling Stones. 1:29:52.640 --> 1:29:55.160 Right backstage, we're meeting the guys who wanted them to 1:29:55.160 --> 1:29:59.080 meet Keith Richards, and I'm like, I need you to 1:29:59.120 --> 1:30:01.200 meet this guy. This is like my all time favorite. 1:30:01.280 --> 1:30:03.320 Like I learned how to play guitar. List into this guy, right, 1:30:04.240 --> 1:30:06.160 So introduce him to Keith. I'm going, this is the 1:30:06.200 --> 1:30:08.120 greatest rock and roll guitar player in the world. And 1:30:08.160 --> 1:30:10.439 he's like going, ah, don't listen, dear old man. Don't 1:30:10.479 --> 1:30:12.639 believe everything he says. So we're gonna take a picture. 1:30:13.000 --> 1:30:15.840 Keith looks over to me, he goes, hey, we should 1:30:15.880 --> 1:30:19.400 kneel down. Your son's like little right, you know, like 1:30:20.000 --> 1:30:22.760 we should kneel down. The reason we're kneeling in that 1:30:22.800 --> 1:30:25.519 picture isn't because of me. It's cause of Keith, because 1:30:25.520 --> 1:30:28.000 he's a sensitive person. Because he knew it meant a 1:30:28.040 --> 1:30:30.360 lot and he you know, we should kneel down to 1:30:30.400 --> 1:30:33.559 take a picture with your son. So you know, not 1:30:33.640 --> 1:30:37.559 everybody is the same, but these people are people, and 1:30:37.640 --> 1:30:42.400 you can have real conversations with them, you know, after 1:30:42.439 --> 1:30:49.840 you get over that starstruck part. And then yeah, because 1:30:49.840 --> 1:30:51.320 at the end of the day, you know, it's it's 1:30:51.360 --> 1:30:54.000 so it's they're overwhelmed with that stuff. You know, it's 1:30:54.080 --> 1:30:54.799 it's okay. 1:30:55.560 --> 1:30:59.599 No one likes to work with an asshole. Did you 1:30:59.680 --> 1:31:03.320 find and some of these musicians were assholes or did 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:05.960 they get the memo or did the manager keep him 1:31:06.000 --> 1:31:08.799 at the distance because they know where they were difficult people? 1:31:12.320 --> 1:31:17.200 There were I can only remember one guy that I 1:31:17.280 --> 1:31:20.800 thought was a total asshole, and then other people would 1:31:20.800 --> 1:31:23.200 be frustrating. So like, I don't need to say the 1:31:23.200 --> 1:31:26.040 guy's name, but he was a slide guitar player. Was 1:31:26.120 --> 1:31:30.120 in the mid seventies. This guy was terrible. All this 1:31:30.200 --> 1:31:32.640 guy did was give me shit everywhere we went. I 1:31:32.720 --> 1:31:35.479 was I couldn't believe it. I didn't know why I 1:31:35.520 --> 1:31:37.680 introduced him to a friend of mine. Why is this 1:31:37.720 --> 1:31:40.880 guy here? Well, because he runs San Francisco, you should 1:31:40.920 --> 1:31:44.280 know him. Yeah, blah blah blah blah, I'll never forget this. 1:31:44.360 --> 1:31:46.800 I was pouring some wine and we're all learning how to, 1:31:46.960 --> 1:31:48.840 you know, drink fine wine. Then got on an expense 1:31:48.880 --> 1:31:51.920 account and I was pouring some wine and I guess 1:31:51.920 --> 1:31:53.439 I part a little too much, you know, because you 1:31:53.439 --> 1:31:55.360 have to be careful. There's like dregs, you know, and 1:31:55.479 --> 1:31:58.240 you know, what are you doing? What are you doing? 1:31:58.640 --> 1:32:01.559 You're letting the drags out. I mean, when I was 1:32:01.560 --> 1:32:03.040 done with the promo tour with this guy, was like, 1:32:03.080 --> 1:32:05.320 I never want to talk to this guy again. You know, 1:32:05.360 --> 1:32:08.800 it's like, just get me out of his life. But 1:32:09.080 --> 1:32:12.439 most people who are trying to get somewhere, if some 1:32:12.520 --> 1:32:18.639 of them are more stubborn, you know, some are could 1:32:18.680 --> 1:32:23.840 be frustrating, but most of them would listen. They could 1:32:23.880 --> 1:32:26.960 be stubborn, but they would listen. If I was strong 1:32:26.960 --> 1:32:29.360 and said, listen, you can get away with this, but 1:32:29.439 --> 1:32:31.840 this is not going to be good for you, right, 1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:35.960 you know, just please listen to me. So I never 1:32:36.320 --> 1:32:42.600 really I worked with cerebral people that would drive you 1:32:42.640 --> 1:32:47.479 out of your fucking mind, but you it was okay 1:32:47.520 --> 1:32:51.000 because it was like you, they're not us, they think different, 1:32:51.000 --> 1:32:58.160 They're not if they wouldn't be them, right, if if 1:32:58.160 --> 1:33:00.160 they if they saw things like we see things, but 1:33:00.200 --> 1:33:03.639 they don't see things like we see things because it's 1:33:03.920 --> 1:33:07.519 imagine the universe and it's the Sun and all the planets, right, 1:33:07.520 --> 1:33:09.559 so we're the planet's going around the universe, and we 1:33:09.600 --> 1:33:11.640 see the Sun. We have great perspective. We can watch it. 1:33:11.720 --> 1:33:14.600 We can see when there's you know, you know, explosions 1:33:14.640 --> 1:33:17.360 on the Sun and everything. They can't see it because 1:33:17.360 --> 1:33:21.120 they're the Sun. They can't see it. And so if 1:33:21.160 --> 1:33:23.599 they're smart, they listen to people like me, like you, 1:33:23.680 --> 1:33:27.320 like any of us who could help them through certain parts. 1:33:27.880 --> 1:33:31.280 You know, in my book, you know, there's things. You know, 1:33:31.640 --> 1:33:34.559 there's a Roger water story where I had to just say, look, Roger, 1:33:35.200 --> 1:33:37.040 you need to listen to me on this, right, And 1:33:37.120 --> 1:33:44.280 he did. You know, Bob, don't. It's funny, Bob. He 1:33:44.320 --> 1:33:47.800 has no idea about promotion, right, it's not. He's like Percasso. 1:33:47.920 --> 1:33:50.800 He just paints and he would see me from time 1:33:50.840 --> 1:33:53.439 to time and he say, rap. When I started doing marketing. 1:33:53.439 --> 1:33:55.360 After I did the promotion thing, I was doing creative 1:33:55.400 --> 1:33:57.439 marketing stuff, had a radio series, at a TV showt 1:33:57.439 --> 1:34:00.400 all this kind of stuff. He goes man man, he goes, 1:34:00.840 --> 1:34:02.479 you have all this great stuff. Why don't you and 1:34:02.520 --> 1:34:04.640 I ever do anything? He goes, you do all this 1:34:04.680 --> 1:34:07.519 great stuff. I was like, Bob, you know I'm your 1:34:07.560 --> 1:34:10.000 biggest fan. You're this yeah, I mean, you know a guy, 1:34:10.040 --> 1:34:12.639 you're like the Shakespeare of our time. You're fucking Bob Dylan? 1:34:12.680 --> 1:34:14.840 Are you kidding me? Every time you put a record out, 1:34:14.880 --> 1:34:16.840 I tell you twenty things you don't want to do him. 1:34:17.400 --> 1:34:19.400 He doesn't like to promote himself that way. He's just 1:34:19.439 --> 1:34:21.360 not that's not him. He just you know, you can 1:34:21.400 --> 1:34:23.080 tell him twenty things and he'll say, Okay, I'll do 1:34:23.120 --> 1:34:25.880 this one, you know, and I admire it. I mean, 1:34:25.880 --> 1:34:27.840 here's a guy from the old school, right. How's this 1:34:28.000 --> 1:34:32.120 quote unquote Paul I don't like to push my music 1:34:32.280 --> 1:34:37.679 that way, Bob Dylan, Okay, big respect even for little 1:34:37.680 --> 1:34:40.720 things look unannounced. I'll just take you to Scott Muni 1:34:40.840 --> 1:34:43.799 show at night on n ADW. Just show up. Nah, 1:34:43.840 --> 1:34:48.559 I'm not doing it. How's this. Here's a great one, 1:34:50.000 --> 1:34:54.360 mid mid eighties. He's huge, early eighties right, he's on fire, right, Bob. 1:34:54.640 --> 1:34:59.440 I just got a call from CBS two hour primetime television. 1:35:00.080 --> 1:35:03.280 Oh your show? Do whatever? You want. They're not gonna 1:35:03.280 --> 1:35:05.280 tell you what to play. Which Bob had bad experiences 1:35:05.280 --> 1:35:07.400 in the past with censers and all this shit. Right 1:35:07.840 --> 1:35:11.720 sures done two hours prime time. It's your show. I 1:35:11.720 --> 1:35:15.800 ain't doing that, man, Like, what are you talking about? No? No, no, man, 1:35:15.880 --> 1:35:19.439 you know you nobody's gonna watch that. You know you 1:35:19.479 --> 1:35:21.880 need you need a hook, man, you need like live 1:35:21.960 --> 1:35:25.960 it or farm it. You know nobody nobody's gonna watch it. 1:35:26.000 --> 1:35:28.400 You need a hook. No, no, Bob Dylan, No, I 1:35:28.479 --> 1:35:31.479 go Bob. You're Bob Dylan. You know you're the event. 1:35:31.520 --> 1:35:33.640 You get it. You don't need Live It or farm It. 1:35:33.720 --> 1:35:37.280 You're fucking Bob Dylan. It's like it's not what you think. 1:35:38.000 --> 1:35:41.519 It's like you're it. No no, man, I'm not doing that. 1:35:41.640 --> 1:35:44.439 Nobody's gonna watch that. So he doesn't some things he 1:35:44.479 --> 1:35:47.200 knows some said, but you know what he has done? Great? 1:35:47.360 --> 1:35:49.360 All right? What are you gonna say, Oh, big mistake, 1:35:49.360 --> 1:35:51.760 you didn't do the television special. Come on, tell me 1:35:52.040 --> 1:35:55.840 you tell me who in their latest years could put 1:35:55.840 --> 1:35:58.320 out Time out of Mind and rough and rowdy ways 1:35:58.520 --> 1:35:59.320 and they still. 1:35:59.120 --> 1:36:02.200 Be really really really great records. Tell me name me 1:36:02.240 --> 1:36:06.360 one artist, name anybody. You can't you can think about it. 1:36:06.439 --> 1:36:10.160 We can't name anyone. And that's how many artists do 1:36:10.240 --> 1:36:11.800 we know. I don't even want to say their names 1:36:11.840 --> 1:36:14.920 because I don't want to miss them. But we can't 1:36:14.960 --> 1:36:19.120 name them. He's the one and only, but him legend dearly. 1:36:19.840 --> 1:36:24.280 He tracked sales and was aware of his business. Was 1:36:24.320 --> 1:36:28.000 he aware of what radio stations were playing his records? 1:36:28.479 --> 1:36:31.680 And even though we wouldn't do stuff. Was he completely 1:36:31.720 --> 1:36:35.879 removed or was he involved in the process? 1:36:38.640 --> 1:36:40.439 I got it. I don't know. I'd say fifty to fifty. 1:36:41.240 --> 1:36:45.439 He wanted to know. Look, he's like any artist, right, 1:36:45.439 --> 1:36:49.840 he wanted to know what was going on. I only 1:36:49.840 --> 1:36:54.280 say fifty to fifty because Bob doesn't make music for radio. Right. 1:36:54.920 --> 1:36:58.559 He once had a writing session with Michael Bolton, which 1:36:58.600 --> 1:37:01.240 I find fascinating. And anyway, they're writing a song together 1:37:01.320 --> 1:37:03.680 and Michael adds something and Bob goes, well, why are 1:37:03.680 --> 1:37:05.840 you doing that man? And Michael goes, well, that's for 1:37:05.880 --> 1:37:07.519 the radio. You know. It's just like a hook they'll 1:37:07.560 --> 1:37:10.840 keep going around. Bob goes, I'm not writing it. I'm 1:37:10.840 --> 1:37:13.800 not I'm not writing the song for the radio man, Like, 1:37:13.840 --> 1:37:15.439 what are you doing, like what you're like, what are 1:37:15.439 --> 1:37:21.040 you talking about? Bob just paints, right, Bob's Picasso. He 1:37:21.080 --> 1:37:23.519 could care less. That's why he's one of the greatest 1:37:23.560 --> 1:37:25.800 artists they'll ever be. He's just Bob, right, he just 1:37:25.880 --> 1:37:28.800 paints right. But he did ask me once, you know 1:37:28.880 --> 1:37:30.639 I wrote I wrote this in my book. He wanted 1:37:30.720 --> 1:37:33.439 to know. He goes, Look, you got to tell me something, man, 1:37:34.000 --> 1:37:37.120 Why is it no matter what I do, I can 1:37:37.160 --> 1:37:40.600 only sell a million records. Fleetwood Mac they sell like 1:37:40.640 --> 1:37:44.680 six million records, right, No matter what I do, I 1:37:44.680 --> 1:37:47.559 can't only sell a million. And at the time it 1:37:47.640 --> 1:37:49.559 was similar for Bruce Springsteen. He was like known as 1:37:49.600 --> 1:37:51.280 the biggest cult right he could sell a million of 1:37:51.320 --> 1:37:56.760 records on rock radio, but without a hit single. Not right, 1:37:56.800 --> 1:37:58.400 It's just it's it's just the way it is. So 1:38:00.439 --> 1:38:03.679 I would try to explain it to him. I'd say, Bob, look, 1:38:05.240 --> 1:38:08.479 Fleet went back. They go into the craft hit singles. 1:38:08.640 --> 1:38:13.000 They go into a studio for six months, they overdub 1:38:13.040 --> 1:38:15.880 and overdub, and they produce and they edit and their 1:38:15.920 --> 1:38:20.080 crafting hit singles. This is their craft. Okay, you go 1:38:20.160 --> 1:38:23.080 into a dentist office and you pull up you know, 1:38:23.240 --> 1:38:25.840 a remote truck and two weeks later it's roll at 1:38:25.920 --> 1:38:30.360 Bob and that's your album. It's fucking brilliant because it's 1:38:30.400 --> 1:38:35.320 Bob Dylan record. But you see the difference, right, And 1:38:35.360 --> 1:38:38.880 he looks at me and he goes, well, I must 1:38:38.880 --> 1:38:42.920 admit we're off the beaten path. I was like, Bob, 1:38:43.360 --> 1:38:46.920 off the beating fucking path. It's like, you know you're 1:38:46.920 --> 1:38:49.920 in the darkest chungles of Africa, but it's like, you 1:38:49.960 --> 1:38:52.920 know it's nine Days of a Bob. But Bob, you're 1:38:53.000 --> 1:38:56.600 Bob Dylan. It doesn't matter. Because I wanted him to 1:38:56.680 --> 1:39:00.640 understand they can no matter what they do. Don't be 1:39:00.680 --> 1:39:04.800 a numbers guy. You can You're Bob Dylan. You'll they 1:39:04.840 --> 1:39:08.160 can never be Bob Dylan. Saw all the artists I 1:39:08.200 --> 1:39:11.759 work with, they wish they could write one song like you. 1:39:11.880 --> 1:39:14.120 One blown in the Wind, one times they were changing 1:39:14.160 --> 1:39:17.720 one subterranean home, six blues, one hurricane. They all wish 1:39:17.800 --> 1:39:22.360 I could just write one, And you've written hundreds. But Bob, 1:39:23.320 --> 1:39:25.920 you know, it's like it's you're a poet. It's an 1:39:25.960 --> 1:39:30.800 acquired taste. Right, This isn't this isn't you know jingles? Right, 1:39:31.600 --> 1:39:34.960 this is poetry. Same with Springsteen. You know, he wasn't 1:39:34.960 --> 1:39:37.200 a fan of it at the time, but you know, 1:39:37.360 --> 1:39:39.760 but I said, Bob, you know, it's just how it is. 1:39:39.760 --> 1:39:41.559 But but and you know, and he walked away and 1:39:41.560 --> 1:39:44.679 he understood it. I don't think it made him really 1:39:44.720 --> 1:39:48.439 happy because he's thinking, well, if I'm Bob Dylan and 1:39:48.560 --> 1:39:52.639 I'm so great, can't I sell you know, one million, 1:39:52.720 --> 1:39:56.200 five hundred thousand, you know, you know, records at least once. 1:39:57.640 --> 1:39:59.679 But look, it's like the Velvet Underground. How many records 1:39:59.680 --> 1:40:02.719 you think the An Underground sold? Right? Not that many? 1:40:03.520 --> 1:40:07.040 Seminal lou Reed, Are you kidding me? These guys change 1:40:07.040 --> 1:40:09.719 the face of rock. Well, who are the important people? 1:40:10.640 --> 1:40:14.479 You know? People? That's part of the eighties downside was 1:40:14.520 --> 1:40:17.640 everybody became numbers people and then in the end of 1:40:17.680 --> 1:40:20.839 the day, that's what ruined our business. The music business 1:40:20.880 --> 1:40:26.160 became the money business, and that's what ruined the record business. Right. 1:40:26.880 --> 1:40:29.479 But you know, you want to talk about art and 1:40:29.560 --> 1:40:32.880 things that matter, things that move the needle. A guy 1:40:32.920 --> 1:40:35.600 that changes a generation, which I know he doesn't like 1:40:35.680 --> 1:40:38.479 that handle. Sorry Bob, but not sorry. You know Bob 1:40:38.520 --> 1:40:42.240 is and Bob Dylan, you changed my life you did 1:40:42.720 --> 1:40:44.040 because I listened to you and I was like, oh 1:40:44.040 --> 1:40:46.360 my god, this guy's telling me there's a new thing 1:40:46.400 --> 1:40:47.720 I can be this. I don't have to live in 1:40:47.720 --> 1:40:49.799 this square world that I'm growing up in the fifties 1:40:49.800 --> 1:40:51.479 because I can't relate and I don't know if I'm 1:40:51.479 --> 1:40:54.080 going to make it. But this guy's coming along and 1:40:54.080 --> 1:40:57.720 he's making it different, and he's changing my life and 1:40:57.760 --> 1:41:01.120 a whole generation's life. And it just happened, you know, 1:41:01.120 --> 1:41:03.320 because you know, the times helped make the man. But 1:41:03.920 --> 1:41:06.519 you know what are you know, civilis rights movement, you know, 1:41:06.560 --> 1:41:09.800 civil civil rights movement, and you know Vietnam and everything else. 1:41:10.080 --> 1:41:12.120 The times do help make the man, but it doesn't 1:41:12.120 --> 1:41:17.560 matter Bob Dylan, you know Bob Dylan. So you know, 1:41:17.600 --> 1:41:20.360 I mean, let's you talk about things that are important 1:41:20.400 --> 1:41:22.880 and the important things. This is what's fucked up with 1:41:22.880 --> 1:41:26.000 the music business now. The important things aren't always about 1:41:26.000 --> 1:41:29.599 the money. It's like Willie, you know, some people, somebody's 1:41:29.600 --> 1:41:33.080 got to figure this out eventually. The important things that 1:41:33.160 --> 1:41:36.679 things that move the needle aren't always about the money, 1:41:36.720 --> 1:41:38.640 and it's not always about the units, and it's not 1:41:38.640 --> 1:41:41.559 always about oh we sold you know five million, And 1:41:41.760 --> 1:41:43.840 it's not always about that. If the art's good, yeah, 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:46.439 you can sell that. But that's but the money is 1:41:46.479 --> 1:41:50.160 not where it's at. It's the messages. You know, what 1:41:50.200 --> 1:41:52.200 do you have to say to me as an artist? 1:41:52.240 --> 1:41:54.839 I got the young bands talking to me all the time. Okay, 1:41:55.200 --> 1:41:57.360 oh Paul, you did this all your life. Tell us, 1:41:57.520 --> 1:41:59.519 tell us the secrets. Well, how do you do it today? 1:41:59.720 --> 1:42:02.280 Is it TikTok? Is it schmick talk? Is it this? 1:42:02.520 --> 1:42:06.880 Is it that? No, it's you. Look at yourself. Why 1:42:06.920 --> 1:42:08.880 didn't you get an Encore? I just saw you play. 1:42:09.040 --> 1:42:09.960 Do you ever think about that? 1:42:10.720 --> 1:42:10.800 No? 1:42:11.320 --> 1:42:15.559 Well, that's your job, right, It's like it's like your 1:42:15.760 --> 1:42:18.920 job is to make sure that you have messages that 1:42:19.040 --> 1:42:22.160 talk to me, that they're so important that when you 1:42:22.200 --> 1:42:24.320 come and play again in a month, I need to 1:42:24.400 --> 1:42:26.680 come and hear you because I want to make you 1:42:26.800 --> 1:42:30.439 part of my life. If your people aren't jumping up 1:42:30.479 --> 1:42:34.880 and screaming at the end of your set and demanding 1:42:35.400 --> 1:42:40.760 another song, you've failed. Do you understand they're not here 1:42:41.680 --> 1:42:43.439 so you know it's not you. Oh I'm gonna play 1:42:43.439 --> 1:42:45.120 my songs and they're gonna listen to me. How cool 1:42:45.120 --> 1:42:49.120 I am? No? No, they're not there for you. You 1:42:49.120 --> 1:42:52.280 you have to be there for them. I'm shocked at 1:42:52.320 --> 1:42:54.680 how many people don't understand this. 1:42:54.880 --> 1:42:55.040 Right. 1:42:55.120 --> 1:42:57.960 So yeah, if you can do that and you have 1:42:58.040 --> 1:43:01.000 something real to say, people will want to hear you 1:43:01.040 --> 1:43:02.840 and they want to hear you again, and it's all right, 1:43:02.880 --> 1:43:05.200 then you'll get on TikTok and that's a big amplifier 1:43:05.240 --> 1:43:09.800 for you. But that isn't that is that's not it right, 1:43:09.880 --> 1:43:14.280 that's not the secret sauce. It's you, you know, and 1:43:14.040 --> 1:43:17.479 and it's okay. If you don't get an encore, go 1:43:17.520 --> 1:43:20.000 back and talk about it. Why didn't we get an encore? 1:43:20.280 --> 1:43:22.479 Work on it? Maybe my songs have to be better. 1:43:22.680 --> 1:43:25.719 Work on your songs, work on your material. Your job 1:43:26.160 --> 1:43:29.040 is to be great, and don't stop until you're great, 1:43:29.160 --> 1:43:30.559 otherwise you ain't gonna get there. 1:43:38.360 --> 1:43:43.599 Okay. You work literally with household names. Their music is different. 1:43:43.720 --> 1:43:49.320 Billy Joel, Pink, Floyd, The Stones, Mick Jagger solo, Paul McCartney, 1:43:49.720 --> 1:43:53.640 Bob Dylan. Is there a thread through these people? You 1:43:53.800 --> 1:43:57.639 talked about them being myopic, being the sun and can't 1:43:57.680 --> 1:44:00.800 being able to see the universe, But is there's some 1:44:01.040 --> 1:44:03.599 other thread that goes through all these people. 1:44:06.479 --> 1:44:09.120 Uh yeah, there is a thread that goes through all 1:44:09.160 --> 1:44:14.679 of them, and it's called work ethic. Gilmour was once 1:44:14.720 --> 1:44:16.360 talking to we're driving around. He goes, you know what, 1:44:17.040 --> 1:44:19.040 because people think we like to just smoke a fat 1:44:19.040 --> 1:44:22.000 one and play, because they have no idea what we do. 1:44:22.320 --> 1:44:23.960 He goes, I go to the office every day, just 1:44:23.960 --> 1:44:25.240 like rap, just like you go to the office with 1:44:25.280 --> 1:44:28.400 your briefcase. My briefcase is my guitar case. I know 1:44:28.439 --> 1:44:30.840 what Pink Floyd is. I have to be the best 1:44:30.880 --> 1:44:35.280 Pink Floyd I can be. Right. Keith Richards rehearses the 1:44:35.360 --> 1:44:36.800 hell out of Rolling Stones. How do you think they're 1:44:36.800 --> 1:44:41.760 so good? They just don't do that right? Bob Dylan's 1:44:41.800 --> 1:44:46.400 touring endlessly. They're driven. These people are driven to do this. 1:44:46.479 --> 1:44:48.800 Bruce Springsteen, you read in my book, I've never seen 1:44:48.840 --> 1:44:50.559 a guy work as hard as that guy. I have 1:44:50.640 --> 1:44:53.360 never seen anything like it. You go to a rehearsal. 1:44:54.120 --> 1:44:57.000 The guy's got a wire down the center of the arena. 1:44:57.120 --> 1:45:00.599 He's playing his guitar at the sound bowl while he's 1:45:00.640 --> 1:45:04.120 rehearsing the band for two hours and most soundchecks are 1:45:04.120 --> 1:45:06.559 twenty minutes. Does it sound good? Yeah, we're done. He's 1:45:06.600 --> 1:45:09.880 doing he's rehearsing the band endless rehearse, rehearse soundcheck. He's 1:45:09.920 --> 1:45:12.360 twisting the knobs so he gets the best sound that 1:45:12.400 --> 1:45:15.280 he can get. That he wants to know about that, Right. 1:45:16.240 --> 1:45:19.240 I once saw soundcheck that lasted three hours. Then they 1:45:19.240 --> 1:45:20.960 take a break, then they come out, they do a 1:45:20.960 --> 1:45:23.920 four hour show. Then after the four hour show, Bruce 1:45:24.000 --> 1:45:25.880 days and talks to everybody that wants to meet him. 1:45:25.880 --> 1:45:27.920 And he doesn't rush you, he'll talk to you. So 1:45:27.960 --> 1:45:29.160 if you're going to meet him, talk to him. You're 1:45:29.160 --> 1:45:30.439 going to wait in a long line because he's gonna 1:45:30.439 --> 1:45:33.519 take a second. Okay, guy goes home one o'clock, you know, 1:45:33.680 --> 1:45:37.000 not home, but back, you know, back to his hotel room, 1:45:37.400 --> 1:45:39.880 gets up the next day, does the same thing, the 1:45:39.920 --> 1:45:45.160 exact same thing, every single day. Right the work ethic. 1:45:45.439 --> 1:45:50.720 You can't get there and you can't stay there. I 1:45:50.760 --> 1:45:55.560 loved reading Keith's book. My favorite Rolling Stones record is 1:45:55.600 --> 1:45:58.400 Exile on Main Street, and he writes about rip this Joint, 1:45:58.400 --> 1:46:01.320 which is one of my all time favorite songs, and 1:46:01.360 --> 1:46:03.639 he writes about how hard it was to get it. 1:46:04.240 --> 1:46:06.760 You know, it's very fast and he had to it 1:46:06.800 --> 1:46:10.120 was really hard to just get it. But I loved 1:46:10.160 --> 1:46:13.920 it because it was like, yeah, it's not easy. If 1:46:13.920 --> 1:46:17.599 it was easy, everyone would do right. This is a 1:46:17.640 --> 1:46:21.000 work ethic, This is a love for the instrument. Right, 1:46:21.000 --> 1:46:23.720 I'm going to take this instrument to another place. So 1:46:23.840 --> 1:46:28.280 I would say that the thread is being driven and 1:46:28.360 --> 1:46:30.960 the work ethic to be great. 1:46:31.280 --> 1:46:36.839 Okay, let's talk about choosing singles. Traditionally bands are worst 1:46:37.080 --> 1:46:39.519 or act or worst at choosing the singles. Tell me, 1:46:39.560 --> 1:46:41.960 since you did it for so long about choosing singles. 1:46:43.800 --> 1:46:51.679 I think you know, after if you do this enough 1:46:51.920 --> 1:46:56.160 and you love music enough, you get a you just 1:46:56.200 --> 1:46:58.200 get a sense of it. You just no, no, not 1:46:58.240 --> 1:47:00.200 everybody knows for sure. There's singles that we put out 1:47:00.200 --> 1:47:02.000 there we thought we're going to be hits, and they weren't. 1:47:02.000 --> 1:47:03.880 There's album tracks that I picked that I thought we're 1:47:03.880 --> 1:47:05.880 gonna you know, they would they would run out there, 1:47:05.960 --> 1:47:07.360 you know, it would get airplane, they'd do great, but 1:47:07.400 --> 1:47:10.479 they wouldn't sell any records, so they don't do what 1:47:10.479 --> 1:47:13.280 they're supposed to do. But you have ears like you're 1:47:13.360 --> 1:47:16.160 used to it, right, So I mean you can tell 1:47:17.479 --> 1:47:19.840 you can tell him thirty seconds, I can put any 1:47:19.920 --> 1:47:21.880 music on right now. In thirty seconds, I can tell 1:47:21.920 --> 1:47:25.559 you, you know, and maybe maybe I have to listen to 1:47:25.560 --> 1:47:28.880 thirty seconds more, just if it's something different. But you 1:47:28.880 --> 1:47:31.439 can tell in thirty seconds. There are people who know. 1:47:31.760 --> 1:47:33.760 There are people who smart enough when they don't know 1:47:34.120 --> 1:47:36.760 tell you a great story. It's not in my book, Walter, 1:47:36.760 --> 1:47:39.360 you're getting the cough. Great president, right, he had to 1:47:39.360 --> 1:47:41.960 walk the line between being cool with the artists and 1:47:42.400 --> 1:47:47.200 talking to the CBS, you know, corporate people. Okay, get 1:47:47.240 --> 1:47:50.479 a call from him from his office, Walter, Actually I 1:47:50.479 --> 1:47:52.880 think it was him. No, he called me. He goes listen, 1:47:53.280 --> 1:47:55.280 he goes, rap, I need you. I think it was 1:47:55.360 --> 1:47:57.559 John Faggot at the time. Great promotion man. So I 1:47:57.600 --> 1:48:00.120 need you and John to come up here because Mick 1:48:00.240 --> 1:48:01.960 Jagger's up here and we have to pick a single. 1:48:02.360 --> 1:48:04.479 I'm not good at it. He's the president of a 1:48:04.479 --> 1:48:06.960 whole giant CBS. I'm not good at that stuff. But 1:48:07.000 --> 1:48:09.559 you guys are so come up right. I thought that 1:48:09.720 --> 1:48:11.360 was one of the greatest phone calls I ever got. 1:48:11.840 --> 1:48:14.880 This guy is Mega. Okay, this guy is CBS. This 1:48:14.960 --> 1:48:18.519 guy is pick anybody on CBS. He's Michael Jackson. I mean, 1:48:18.520 --> 1:48:21.040 this guy's barbarous straw just like everything. I'm not good 1:48:21.080 --> 1:48:23.120 at picking singles. He knows he's not good at that. 1:48:23.360 --> 1:48:25.840 He knows he's good at negotiating for artists and being 1:48:25.840 --> 1:48:28.160 their buddy and making it right. Fine, Me and John 1:48:28.200 --> 1:48:30.360 go up with Mick. Hey, Mick, how you doing. We 1:48:30.400 --> 1:48:33.200 listen to a few things and we go I think 1:48:33.200 --> 1:48:34.840 it's this one, and Mick goes, yeah, yeah, I think 1:48:34.880 --> 1:48:36.320 so too. I think that's the I think we have 1:48:36.360 --> 1:48:39.639 a chance with that. And notice, Mick Jagger, you want 1:48:39.640 --> 1:48:43.400 to talk about a guy who knows the business. Mick Jagger. Yes, 1:48:43.720 --> 1:48:46.759 I think we have a chance with that quote Mick Jagger, 1:48:46.760 --> 1:48:49.120 I think we have a chance with that because he knows. 1:48:49.240 --> 1:48:51.559 It's all a chance. He knows because he's been doing 1:48:51.600 --> 1:48:54.840 it his whole life. Right. Yeah, you hang around guys 1:48:54.880 --> 1:48:58.280 like that, you'll learn stuff from guys like that. Tony Bennett. 1:48:58.280 --> 1:49:01.160 I learned so much from Tony Bennett. They'll teach you 1:49:01.280 --> 1:49:03.720 things that you don't know because they're older than you, 1:49:03.760 --> 1:49:06.280 and they got there before you, and they've been around 1:49:06.280 --> 1:49:09.519 the block, you know, and you learn from listening to them. 1:49:10.280 --> 1:49:15.680 Okay, some of these acts were already stars before you 1:49:15.840 --> 1:49:19.800 got there, Like Bob Dylan, there are other acts that 1:49:19.880 --> 1:49:24.720 you live through it. Okay, Aerosmith, Billy Joel. If you 1:49:24.720 --> 1:49:28.559 look at Billy Joey, forget the album before starts off 1:49:28.600 --> 1:49:33.080 the piano man, Gigantic Kit kind of goes into the wilderness. 1:49:33.400 --> 1:49:39.759 Worked with Phil Ramone, Gigantic Okay. Bruce Springsteen second album. 1:49:39.800 --> 1:49:44.200 They get the recording right, he's working everywhere. Hasn't quite 1:49:44.240 --> 1:49:48.120 broken through from the inside. Did you just know they 1:49:48.120 --> 1:49:49.880 were going to hit a certain level or do you 1:49:49.920 --> 1:49:50.680 really never know? 1:49:53.560 --> 1:49:56.880 Some you don't know and some you have a feeling for. 1:49:57.720 --> 1:50:01.639 And I think for me, it's always when you see 1:50:01.640 --> 1:50:06.479 the band live. When you see that artist or band live, 1:50:07.439 --> 1:50:12.720 you'll know it's a knowing. I heard Bruce's first record, 1:50:13.080 --> 1:50:14.920 it was I really liked it. I went, hey, this 1:50:14.920 --> 1:50:17.160 guy's really good. He's got something to say. It's a 1:50:17.160 --> 1:50:19.599 little Dylan s but that's okay. He's you know, he's 1:50:19.640 --> 1:50:22.200 not copying Bob, He's I can just tell he's an influence. 1:50:22.720 --> 1:50:25.240 But until I saw Bruce live, I didn't know. When 1:50:25.280 --> 1:50:27.479 I saw Bruce live at the Troubadour, I was like, 1:50:27.520 --> 1:50:30.840 holy fuck, it's the next big thing. When I saw 1:50:30.840 --> 1:50:33.040 Elton John. It's not even on my act or not 1:50:33.080 --> 1:50:35.599 even on my label, right, I saw Elton John. Somebody 1:50:35.600 --> 1:50:36.960 told me this is going to be the next big thing. 1:50:36.960 --> 1:50:43.320 They were right. I went, holy shit. Psychedelic Furs got 1:50:43.360 --> 1:50:45.040 their record. I love their record, But when I saw 1:50:45.120 --> 1:50:47.960 him live, I was like, oh my god. And the 1:50:47.960 --> 1:50:50.559 biggest one was Alis in Chains. Because, as I write 1:50:50.560 --> 1:50:54.440 in the book, that music for me didn't I was discordant. 1:50:54.439 --> 1:50:56.240 I did. I didn't, you know, I'm not ashamed to 1:50:56.280 --> 1:50:58.280 say I just didn't understand it. I mean, I'm used 1:50:58.280 --> 1:51:01.040 to Van Halen, right, I'm used to you know, Eric Clapton. 1:51:01.040 --> 1:51:04.639 I'm you know, these are the records I'm promoting Rolling Stones. 1:51:04.840 --> 1:51:08.760 This is music is so different sounding. But I saw 1:51:08.840 --> 1:51:13.840 him live in New York, Bob. I saw the next 1:51:13.920 --> 1:51:17.479 led Zeppelin, the future, you know. I saw that everything 1:51:17.479 --> 1:51:19.960 that came after them, which is now called grunge. Who 1:51:20.000 --> 1:51:21.719 cares what you call it, but you know you're talking, 1:51:21.760 --> 1:51:25.160 you're talking pearl Jam. Nirvana Alice was the first one 1:51:25.240 --> 1:51:28.439 out of the gate. Not the first one out of 1:51:28.439 --> 1:51:29.880 the gate, because there was the BlimE. There's some other 1:51:29.920 --> 1:51:33.160 really great Seattle bands, but they were the first band, 1:51:33.320 --> 1:51:36.680 you know, you know, with my help to get to 1:51:36.720 --> 1:51:39.400 the main stream, Okay, to to really be to be 1:51:39.520 --> 1:51:45.320 heard by the mainstream public. Okay. I saw them, and 1:51:46.160 --> 1:51:49.680 I mean it rocked me to my core. And as 1:51:49.680 --> 1:51:51.360 you read in the book, I was having a tough 1:51:51.400 --> 1:51:53.800 time because we had some music that just wasn't made 1:51:53.800 --> 1:51:55.880 for rock radio, and I thought I was losing my touch. 1:51:56.520 --> 1:51:58.479 I was. I couldn't sleep all night. I was like, 1:51:58.479 --> 1:52:00.800 oh my god, I just saw it and it's ours, 1:52:00.840 --> 1:52:03.559 like we have Alice in chains. I'm going to go 1:52:03.600 --> 1:52:05.800 out and I'm going to do this and I'm going 1:52:05.880 --> 1:52:08.400 to make this happen, and it's going to fucking blow 1:52:08.439 --> 1:52:11.799 people's minds, you know. But from the from the record, 1:52:12.680 --> 1:52:14.960 not because it was new to me, which you read 1:52:14.960 --> 1:52:16.519 in the book, it was new to radio that nobody 1:52:16.560 --> 1:52:18.679 wanted to play it because they didn't it was odd. 1:52:19.080 --> 1:52:21.920 It's an odd sound. The Seattle sound is completely different. 1:52:21.920 --> 1:52:24.000 They didn't want to know about it. So it took 1:52:24.040 --> 1:52:27.439 some really strong effort, you know, to get that off. 1:52:27.479 --> 1:52:31.240 But I think if you see someone live, you'll know, 1:52:32.040 --> 1:52:36.559 you just know, you know, And sometimes you think you 1:52:36.600 --> 1:52:38.880 got one by the tail and it just doesn't happen, 1:52:39.000 --> 1:52:42.280 and you I don't know why. I had a I 1:52:42.280 --> 1:52:45.439 had a band called Human Radio Man. I thought they 1:52:45.439 --> 1:52:48.360 were fantastic, they made a fantastic album. I saw them live. 1:52:49.080 --> 1:52:52.839 Just didn't resonate, just just you know, just just didn't resonate. 1:52:53.439 --> 1:52:57.120 Lover boy. Okay, you're reading the book. I promoted it 1:52:57.320 --> 1:52:59.559 and then as soon as I you know, Galla calms, 1:52:59.600 --> 1:53:01.720 you got to hear it like I'm on fire, you know, 1:53:01.880 --> 1:53:05.320 to make this thing happen. I go see them live, 1:53:05.720 --> 1:53:09.559 same thing, Holy fuck. And you know, I know they're 1:53:09.600 --> 1:53:13.599 like a sort of rock pop act. Doesn't matter their 1:53:13.760 --> 1:53:17.880 rhythm section, okay, their drummer, they're bass player, like you know, 1:53:19.760 --> 1:53:21.920 they were you know, Reno's a great front man and 1:53:22.280 --> 1:53:24.759 you know, you know, and Pauldine's a great guitar players. 1:53:24.760 --> 1:53:27.000 But this was a real band. This was a band 1:53:27.000 --> 1:53:31.120 that was gonna go go long right. It was like, 1:53:31.200 --> 1:53:33.960 oh no, it's the whole band, It's Matt Fornett. It's 1:53:34.000 --> 1:53:37.439 like these guys, like, these guys are making this thing work. 1:53:37.760 --> 1:53:40.519 And then when we saw that, we were like, holy shit, 1:53:40.840 --> 1:53:42.360 we have a tiger by the tail. Okay. 1:53:42.479 --> 1:53:47.879 Historically, the Australian bands are the best live bands. Because 1:53:47.960 --> 1:53:50.880 there's a limited amount of money in the marketplace, they 1:53:50.960 --> 1:53:53.439 have to, you know, hit the same places again and again. 1:53:54.280 --> 1:53:58.280 Midnight Oil was on Columbia. What was your experience with 1:53:58.360 --> 1:53:59.080 Midnight Oil? 1:54:00.640 --> 1:54:03.360 Fantastic? Let me ask you a question, do you really 1:54:03.400 --> 1:54:05.840 think that's true? You think Australian bounds are the best 1:54:05.840 --> 1:54:06.240 life bounds? 1:54:06.240 --> 1:54:11.919 Because this is like we're talking old stories. I remember 1:54:12.000 --> 1:54:15.320 I went to the Troubadour for an underplay within Excess 1:54:16.160 --> 1:54:19.080 and Sean Coakley said that he was working at Arista. No, 1:54:19.200 --> 1:54:21.920 that was before he's working at arist or whatever, and 1:54:22.880 --> 1:54:26.599 I thought about it, ac DC, et cetera. Listen, if 1:54:26.640 --> 1:54:30.360 you've been to Australia, first and foremost, there's only so 1:54:30.400 --> 1:54:33.360 many people there, so you can't make an incredible amount 1:54:33.400 --> 1:54:36.120 of money living in Australia. And then there are people 1:54:36.280 --> 1:54:38.000 who say, well, you know, I like being a big 1:54:38.040 --> 1:54:42.280 fish in a small pond. And there are a certain 1:54:42.480 --> 1:54:45.640 number of cities there's just we could probably name them 1:54:45.680 --> 1:54:48.440 and we don't even live there. So to stay alive 1:54:49.000 --> 1:54:50.400 you have to play. 1:54:50.640 --> 1:54:54.360 No you speak. But I wonder if it's more like 1:54:54.600 --> 1:54:57.400 the working class thing, like to take Judus priest when 1:54:57.440 --> 1:55:00.280 I met them. Remember talking to Glenn Tipton. He was 1:55:01.160 --> 1:55:03.240 an okay guitar player in the beginning with they're just 1:55:03.280 --> 1:55:07.160 starting out and he got great, right. But I remember 1:55:07.240 --> 1:55:09.440 him talking to me. He said, you know, I think 1:55:09.480 --> 1:55:12.280 it was from Birmingham, so you know, I'm from this 1:55:12.360 --> 1:55:16.200 industrial how's this. I'm from this industrial part of England 1:55:16.680 --> 1:55:20.280 and I'm trying this to see if this works to 1:55:20.360 --> 1:55:23.000 get me out of there. Okay. He was in judis 1:55:23.040 --> 1:55:26.520 Priest by necessity, and I wonder if it's because it 1:55:26.640 --> 1:55:31.400 takes them a hard long time. I don't know. Maybe 1:55:31.440 --> 1:55:33.800 it's Bruce Springsteen's worth taking because he's a blue collar 1:55:33.880 --> 1:55:37.400 kid from like I don't know. I don't know. 1:55:37.600 --> 1:55:42.120 I'm Malcolm Gladwell because he's at certain things he has said. 1:55:42.520 --> 1:55:45.240 But if you go back to the ten thousand hour rule, 1:55:45.280 --> 1:55:51.040 if people don't understand, it's ten thousand hours of hard practice. 1:55:51.120 --> 1:55:53.600 I always using the example he's sky ten thousand hours 1:55:53.600 --> 1:55:55.280 on the bunny slope. You're not going to be a 1:55:55.320 --> 1:55:58.600 world class gear. But one of the examples he uses 1:55:58.680 --> 1:56:01.640 the Beatles in Hamburg. I had not discussed that with 1:56:01.640 --> 1:56:04.960 Paul McCartney, not that he's my best friend, but I 1:56:05.160 --> 1:56:10.680 did discuss Geezer, Butler playing in Switzerland, etc. There was 1:56:10.800 --> 1:56:14.040 no money. They were playing night after night. No one 1:56:14.200 --> 1:56:18.120 was listening. You really learn your chops. I mean, this 1:56:18.240 --> 1:56:22.440 is let's go somewhere else, Sam Smith, Okay, this is 1:56:22.440 --> 1:56:26.280 something we never saw in our business. You're playing arenas 1:56:26.320 --> 1:56:30.680 on the first tour. You know, used to be at 1:56:30.720 --> 1:56:34.400 the record company had a subsidized club tour. Then maybe 1:56:34.440 --> 1:56:36.959 open up for somebody in theaters. Then maybe you headlined 1:56:37.000 --> 1:56:41.240 in theaters. So everybody is so hungry. A lot of 1:56:41.280 --> 1:56:43.760 these bands, you say, they look like he came from nowhere, 1:56:43.800 --> 1:56:45.640 but you went to see him and you're, holy fuck, 1:56:45.720 --> 1:56:46.920 these guys are incredible. 1:56:48.440 --> 1:56:51.440 Yeah, well because of that work ethic, they had to 1:56:51.520 --> 1:56:55.880 play clubs and if it didn't happen, I mean, look 1:56:56.480 --> 1:56:59.040 look at the early Rolling Stones reels and you see 1:56:59.080 --> 1:57:03.120 Mick he's today he's just holding a mic like this, right, 1:57:03.160 --> 1:57:05.840 He's he's not even looking left, he's not even looking right. 1:57:06.560 --> 1:57:08.120 He had to learn how to be a front man. 1:57:09.120 --> 1:57:12.480 He studied, Bruce Springsteen studied who do you think, they 1:57:12.480 --> 1:57:16.960 studied James Brown? Right like they they realized they had 1:57:16.960 --> 1:57:21.280 to be the work to get there. Is is How 1:57:21.320 --> 1:57:23.280 do I be better at this? How can I make 1:57:23.360 --> 1:57:25.919 this happen? This is like this work ethic that I'm 1:57:26.000 --> 1:57:30.440 talking about. You know, look, you know Midnight Oil they 1:57:30.480 --> 1:57:33.960 come from that cloth. I loved min On Oil. We 1:57:33.960 --> 1:57:38.200 were great friends. I'm a surfer right there, surf you 1:57:38.240 --> 1:57:40.600 know rap combed dolls. You know you've got to come. 1:57:40.840 --> 1:57:43.280 You know, don underlon have a surf right They would 1:57:43.320 --> 1:57:46.680 send me wetsuits. I had Midnight Oil wetsuits. They were 1:57:46.760 --> 1:57:52.640 purple with shars whose green Midnight Oil. They're great people. 1:57:52.920 --> 1:57:56.200 I'll tell you about the Australian bands. There's no ego. 1:57:57.680 --> 1:58:00.000 Men at work, there's no ego. Doesn't matter how big 1:58:00.120 --> 1:58:03.200 they get. I don't know why. They just don't have 1:58:03.280 --> 1:58:08.120 an ego. They just are thankful. I you know nothing, 1:58:08.480 --> 1:58:10.960 just hey, tell me where to be. We're working hard. 1:58:12.360 --> 1:58:14.760 And the Midnight Oil guys, oh my god, one of 1:58:14.760 --> 1:58:17.440 the greatest, greatest drummers in the world. I mean, what 1:58:17.560 --> 1:58:22.760 a band, you know, and they were great. I had 1:58:22.800 --> 1:58:24.000 so much fun with those guys. 1:58:24.320 --> 1:58:27.400 Let's talk about surfing. We've talked surfing for thirty years. 1:58:28.080 --> 1:58:29.920 You want to talk about something good. 1:58:29.960 --> 1:58:32.320 A surfer? Are you and how often do you go. 1:58:36.760 --> 1:58:39.360 There is a saying and surfing and a lot of 1:58:39.360 --> 1:58:43.520 people take credit for it. And the saying is that 1:58:43.640 --> 1:58:49.360 the best surfer is the person who's having the most fun. Okay, 1:58:49.680 --> 1:58:54.600 because it is. It's a spiritual thing. But people don't 1:58:54.640 --> 1:58:58.480 understand it's not just a sport. Okay, when you ride 1:58:58.520 --> 1:59:01.040 a wave, you because I'm part of I'm just gonna 1:59:01.040 --> 1:59:03.960 sound hipie tipity, but here's it's the truth. When you 1:59:04.080 --> 1:59:08.160 ride a wave, unlike skiing, like you're a big time skier. Okay, 1:59:08.200 --> 1:59:10.920 so you're well, I'm gonna ask you a question. I'm 1:59:10.920 --> 1:59:12.320 gonna tell you what I feel, and you tell me 1:59:12.320 --> 1:59:15.040 what you feel, Okay, because I because I tried skiing 1:59:15.080 --> 1:59:19.880 once and I almost killed myself. Okay, So so okay. 1:59:20.080 --> 1:59:24.440 So when you're surfing, you are riding a wave, and 1:59:24.480 --> 1:59:27.280 so you begin to feel part of the Earth's energy. 1:59:27.440 --> 1:59:32.440 You you feel part of the planet. Every wave is different, 1:59:32.800 --> 1:59:35.680 it's a dance. You're looking at the wave. How is 1:59:35.720 --> 1:59:38.080 it gonna? Is it gonna hike up? Am I gonna 1:59:38.080 --> 1:59:39.800 have to couple take take a couple of steps on 1:59:39.840 --> 1:59:41.920 the board to gain speed? Am I gonna have to 1:59:41.920 --> 1:59:44.080 do a cutback and do a turn? Left to get around? 1:59:44.240 --> 1:59:48.800 How am I negotiating my dance partner? Okay, if you 1:59:49.040 --> 1:59:51.480 do this for an hour, an hour and a half, 1:59:51.560 --> 1:59:55.280 which is your general surf sessions an hour and a half. Right, Uh, 1:59:55.320 --> 1:59:57.760 when you come in to the beach, you are zend out. 1:59:58.400 --> 2:00:00.280 You are totally zend out. I don't don't know if 2:00:00.320 --> 2:00:02.320 it's from the swoop and glide. I don't know if 2:00:02.360 --> 2:00:05.280 it's from all the negative ions because you're in the ocean. 2:00:06.200 --> 2:00:07.160 I don't know if it's the sun. 2:00:07.200 --> 2:00:07.640 I don't know. 2:00:08.600 --> 2:00:10.840 I think a lot of it is just sitting on 2:00:10.880 --> 2:00:14.400 the board bob bobbing with the planet, like you're in 2:00:14.520 --> 2:00:19.680 tune to the planet. I was never the greatest surfer 2:00:19.680 --> 2:00:23.480 in the world. I would say, I'm good. I can 2:00:23.520 --> 2:00:25.760 do a cutback, I can walk up the board. I 2:00:25.800 --> 2:00:28.440 can do this. You know. Can I hang ten? No? 2:00:29.200 --> 2:00:31.600 I can hang five. Cheater five. You walk up and 2:00:31.640 --> 2:00:34.160 you I ride longboards. I have to tell people there's 2:00:34.160 --> 2:00:36.080 two kinds of surfboards. There's long boards, which I grew 2:00:36.160 --> 2:00:38.280 up with, and short boards, which is like a little 2:00:38.280 --> 2:00:40.920 potato chip. And those guys are doing aerials right, they're 2:00:40.960 --> 2:00:42.480 doing you shoot out of the way. If you do 2:00:42.520 --> 2:00:44.800 an aerial of three sixty you come back down. It's 2:00:44.840 --> 2:00:47.920 like circus tricks. I tried it. I didn't like it 2:00:47.960 --> 2:00:50.880 wasn't It wasn't for me. So I'm still a longboard writer. 2:00:51.000 --> 2:00:53.200 It's elegant. It's a swoop and glide. I'm a swooping 2:00:53.200 --> 2:00:56.240 glide guy. You know what. I've surfed big waves not 2:00:56.360 --> 2:00:59.120 my thing. Mickey Door one of the greatest surfers in 2:00:59.160 --> 2:01:02.560 the world. In his book, he says, I'm I can. 2:01:02.600 --> 2:01:06.120 I'm a confessed three to four foot swoop and glide guy. 2:01:06.680 --> 2:01:08.600 I surf those big waves in a way because I 2:01:08.640 --> 2:01:11.560 had to turn my stripes. I don't like it, you know. 2:01:13.480 --> 2:01:15.640 You know it's a different kind of thrill ride. You 2:01:15.680 --> 2:01:18.120 ride a twenty foot wave, twenty five foot wave. You 2:01:18.160 --> 2:01:19.880 got to get to point A to point B without 2:01:19.880 --> 2:01:23.280 getting killed. Okay, that's that's it. And it's yeah, it's 2:01:23.280 --> 2:01:27.200 exhilarating your heart's and your chest. I've done it. That's 2:01:27.240 --> 2:01:32.800 not fun for me. Swoop and glide, you know, it's 2:01:32.960 --> 2:01:34.200 it's like you're in a jam session. 2:01:34.200 --> 2:01:34.320 Man. 2:01:34.440 --> 2:01:38.680 You just think you're lost. You just lost. And I 2:01:38.800 --> 2:01:41.560 go as often as I can. I live on the 2:01:41.600 --> 2:01:42.960 East Coast, so I'm not one of these guys that 2:01:43.000 --> 2:01:44.560 serves in the winter. There are people that put on 2:01:44.640 --> 2:01:47.640 seven mil wet suits and gloves, and I'm not that guy. 2:01:47.720 --> 2:01:49.920 You know, that's not fun. You know I tried it once. 2:01:49.960 --> 2:01:52.040 It's like, why am I doing this? I can't even 2:01:52.040 --> 2:01:54.040 feel the ocean. I feel like I'm riding on ball bearings. 2:01:54.080 --> 2:01:56.960 Might as well be on a skateboard, right. But I 2:01:57.080 --> 2:02:00.160 but in the summer, I surf on Long Island, Live 2:02:00.160 --> 2:02:02.320 on Long Island. I surf in Long Beach, go to Montauk, 2:02:03.240 --> 2:02:04.880 which is a reef break, which is kind of like 2:02:04.920 --> 2:02:07.720 a California wave. And I make sure that I go 2:02:07.760 --> 2:02:10.400 to California at least once or twice a year because 2:02:10.400 --> 2:02:12.160 that's where the best surf is. And I have boards 2:02:12.200 --> 2:02:17.920 in California, so that's heaven because those surf breaks. Like 2:02:17.960 --> 2:02:20.040 people always want to talk about Hawaii in this place 2:02:20.080 --> 2:02:22.080 and that I have a friendly traveling well, I'm going 2:02:22.080 --> 2:02:24.880 to Costa Rica. Fine, go to Costa Rica. You ain't 2:02:24.880 --> 2:02:27.680 gonna find better waves than in California. It's the Disneyland 2:02:27.680 --> 2:02:30.200 of surf, and it's every kind of break you want, 2:02:30.440 --> 2:02:35.000 you know, from from up north to down south. Ventura 2:02:35.080 --> 2:02:39.520 County Line, long green, beautiful waves, glassy because there's all 2:02:39.520 --> 2:02:42.520 these culp beds. You're like riding on a mirror Malibu 2:02:42.600 --> 2:02:48.400 Point Break. Go down South Huntington. Forget Huntington, go you know, 2:02:48.480 --> 2:02:52.560 to past Lagoon to beach. I love down South Encinitas. 2:02:52.760 --> 2:02:55.840 There's a place called Swami's Pipes is my favorite break. 2:02:55.880 --> 2:03:00.440 Right below Swami's. You're sitting out in pristine, beautiful water 2:03:00.520 --> 2:03:02.600 and the waves because there's like reefs out there's like 2:03:02.680 --> 2:03:05.520 rock reefs right, so the waves are perfectly shaped so 2:03:05.560 --> 2:03:08.360 they're breaking behind you so you can ride the wave 2:03:08.400 --> 2:03:10.640 and not worry about the waves, like you know, breaking 2:03:10.720 --> 2:03:12.840 in front of you. And all the way up and 2:03:12.840 --> 2:03:16.240 down the coast of California. It's the best surf there is. 2:03:16.320 --> 2:03:20.920 So I plan every year to at least plan a 2:03:21.000 --> 2:03:25.040 surf trip in July, you know, or August. Both of 2:03:25.080 --> 2:03:28.120 my sons surf. I have a granddaughter who surfs. Now 2:03:29.040 --> 2:03:31.480 you want to talk about mind blowing, Bob, I tell 2:03:31.520 --> 2:03:36.680 my kids to surf. I surf this place Swamis when 2:03:36.680 --> 2:03:39.400 I was eighteen. I remember, I'm eighteen years old and 2:03:39.400 --> 2:03:42.040 I'm sitting out at Swami's. I'm going I wonder if 2:03:42.040 --> 2:03:44.240 I'll ever get married. I wonder if I ever get 2:03:44.240 --> 2:03:46.160 married with five kids, And I wonder if I have kids, 2:03:46.480 --> 2:03:49.840 would they ever serf? And so when my kids got 2:03:49.840 --> 2:03:51.000 older and I wanted to take them to all my 2:03:51.040 --> 2:03:54.000 favorite surf breaks, I took them to Swamis Paddle Out. 2:03:54.240 --> 2:03:57.320 I'm sitting in the exact same spot. I'm flashed back 2:03:57.320 --> 2:04:01.680 to eighteen years old. Same cliffs, same waves, same palm trees, 2:04:01.880 --> 2:04:04.280 clientele has changed, but it's all the same. And I'm 2:04:04.320 --> 2:04:07.840 thinking about, man, I was just sitting here and it 2:04:07.880 --> 2:04:11.680 wasn't that long ago, and I wondered, you know, if 2:04:11.720 --> 2:04:13.920 any of this would happen. And as I'm thinking this, 2:04:14.800 --> 2:04:17.800 my oldest son paddles by, Hey Dad, how you doing? 2:04:18.480 --> 2:04:21.160 And then my other son to my right paddles by, Hey, pops, 2:04:21.160 --> 2:04:24.520 what's going on? And I'm having one of those moments, 2:04:24.760 --> 2:04:27.080 you know, like like like like the Field of Dreams moments, 2:04:27.120 --> 2:04:28.600 like the fuck you want to have a cat Like 2:04:28.640 --> 2:04:30.760 every time I watched that movie, I tell myself, you're 2:04:30.760 --> 2:04:32.960 not gonna cry, You're not gonna cry, don't cry, And 2:04:33.000 --> 2:04:34.840 every time I see that scene, I fucking lose it. 2:04:35.440 --> 2:04:37.640 And I was having one of those moments, right, and 2:04:37.680 --> 2:04:40.200 I just looked up. I'm pretty spiritual gym me. I 2:04:40.240 --> 2:04:42.880 just looked up and said thanks, because you know how 2:04:42.920 --> 2:04:44.840 much fun is this with my kids? Okay, Now I 2:04:44.880 --> 2:04:49.040 have a fourteen year old granddaughter and last summer, I'm 2:04:49.080 --> 2:04:51.200 out at my favorite break which is just south of 2:04:51.200 --> 2:04:54.560 Swambia's with just pipes. It's a great wave and she 2:04:54.720 --> 2:04:57.440 and she calls me, well, I'm Jeep. I'm Grandpa Paul, 2:04:57.480 --> 2:05:02.480 so I'm GP, and Jeeps for short, Hey jeeves, start paddling. 2:05:02.560 --> 2:05:06.440 We're taking this one in together and im and I'm going, 2:05:07.600 --> 2:05:11.440 oh my god. Now there's a granddaughter. And she gets it, 2:05:11.480 --> 2:05:14.040 like she gets it's in her, like the surfing thing, 2:05:14.120 --> 2:05:17.040 like it's in her right, and I start paddling, and 2:05:17.080 --> 2:05:19.680 again I look up and I'm just like overwhelmed. I'm 2:05:19.760 --> 2:05:23.040 just like thanks, you know, thanks for her, and thanks 2:05:23.400 --> 2:05:27.720 for letting her understand what surfing is. So I go 2:05:27.800 --> 2:05:29.600 as often, honestly, I go as often as I can. 2:05:29.640 --> 2:05:32.440 And look, Bob, I'm getting older. Every summer I go out, 2:05:32.560 --> 2:05:35.120 I paddle out, see if I can do it, and 2:05:35.160 --> 2:05:36.720 I do it, and I step up, you know, and 2:05:36.960 --> 2:05:39.560 then when I get into the beach. I look up 2:05:39.600 --> 2:05:42.680 to the Evans and I thank the man above. Thanks, 2:05:43.160 --> 2:05:45.400 I got another year. I'm going to do this another year. 2:05:46.440 --> 2:05:50.160 My dream, well, my dream was to surf until eighty 2:05:50.760 --> 2:05:52.240 only because I met a guy who was eighty one 2:05:52.240 --> 2:05:53.560 and he was surfing and he said, you can do it. 2:05:53.600 --> 2:05:57.120 You can do it. But now I have a new grandson. 2:05:57.360 --> 2:05:59.240 He's only a year old, and I'm like, oh shit, 2:05:59.400 --> 2:06:01.800 now I got to push the Now, I gotta push 2:06:01.800 --> 2:06:03.520 the envelope. I need to be there for him, like 2:06:03.520 --> 2:06:05.520 when he's like at least five or six. I just 2:06:05.520 --> 2:06:07.800 want to paddle out with his little dude. Right, So 2:06:08.320 --> 2:06:10.360 I go as often as I can. But let me 2:06:10.440 --> 2:06:12.600 ask you a question. And this because I want to 2:06:12.640 --> 2:06:15.480 know you're an avid skier. I'm always reading about your 2:06:15.480 --> 2:06:18.720 ski trips. When you ski, is it like, okay? I 2:06:18.800 --> 2:06:20.400 just talked to you about like what surfing feels like. 2:06:20.360 --> 2:06:21.320 Okay, the same. 2:06:21.640 --> 2:06:24.160 Let's start from the beginning. You were talking about being 2:06:24.280 --> 2:06:28.120 zen'd out the water wears you out. I remember playing 2:06:28.160 --> 2:06:30.440 Little League and the guy said you can't go swimming 2:06:30.560 --> 2:06:33.520 that day. I remember just running around in like a 2:06:33.960 --> 2:06:38.400 you know, twelve inches of water and it made a difference, okay, 2:06:39.000 --> 2:06:44.320 And there is the zen aspect in terms of skiing. 2:06:44.400 --> 2:06:46.200 The way I put it is, I don't know if 2:06:46.240 --> 2:06:51.400 you know this, saw my bad company, simple man. It's 2:06:51.480 --> 2:06:54.400 running with the pack and it's great, and you know it. 2:06:55.120 --> 2:06:58.080 Freedom is the only thing that means a damn to me. 2:06:58.240 --> 2:07:01.880 It's relatively slow swall and I remember standing at when 2:07:01.880 --> 2:07:04.640 I used to live in Utah, standing in snowbird. You're 2:07:04.720 --> 2:07:08.880 there in the elements. It's just you in the elements. 2:07:09.120 --> 2:07:16.000 In addition, the terrain is always different, so I ski 2:07:16.400 --> 2:07:22.280 for the sensation. And let's be clear, I skied so 2:07:22.360 --> 2:07:24.360 much this year. I'm almost embarrassed tell you how much. 2:07:24.840 --> 2:07:27.440 There are days I don't want to go out, but 2:07:28.680 --> 2:07:31.240 because you just burnt. Yeah, I mean, how many stays 2:07:31.280 --> 2:07:32.640 in a row of ice skied? 2:07:32.720 --> 2:07:38.000 Now? Oh, I'm surprised you can. 2:07:38.600 --> 2:07:40.920 I think it's sixty eight days in a row right now, 2:07:41.560 --> 2:07:44.520 So there are days Wait wait. 2:07:44.440 --> 2:07:47.600 Wait, wait, you skied sixty eight days in a row. 2:07:48.760 --> 2:07:52.240 I'm at ninety eight days days over the year. 2:07:52.720 --> 2:07:55.600 Wait a minute, wait a minute. You got to give 2:07:55.640 --> 2:08:01.760 me a second to take that in. Okay, let's be honest, Okay, 2:08:02.080 --> 2:08:03.680 I can serve two days in a row, and then 2:08:03.720 --> 2:08:06.400 I got to take a day off. Tell me how 2:08:06.400 --> 2:08:08.520 you ski sixty eight days? I view it as a job, 2:08:09.760 --> 2:08:12.000 and I don't care if it's a job. It's sixty 2:08:12.000 --> 2:08:15.320 eight days. How do you three days row? 2:08:15.800 --> 2:08:16.920 Happen to be tired today? 2:08:16.960 --> 2:08:20.800 But let me really, let me you're tired, Bob. 2:08:21.040 --> 2:08:23.120 The list run two and a half times faster than 2:08:23.160 --> 2:08:24.880 they used to, so you get a lot of skiing 2:08:25.000 --> 2:08:29.960 in okay. But the key is to go out there 2:08:30.560 --> 2:08:34.920 till it clicks, till you're in the zone. It always happens. 2:08:35.320 --> 2:08:38.360 You don't want to leave the house. You're out there. 2:08:38.440 --> 2:08:40.400 I mean, listen, I ski so much. I'm never going 2:08:40.440 --> 2:08:43.760 to ski badly. That's not the point. The point is, 2:08:43.840 --> 2:08:46.600 all of a sudden, it clicks, you make that specific 2:08:46.800 --> 2:08:51.640 turn and goes this is the greatest sensation of all time. 2:08:51.760 --> 2:08:54.880 And you're out that. I understand. I understand that. 2:08:54.960 --> 2:08:58.880 But what I'm asking is about your stamina, like muscles ache. 2:08:58.920 --> 2:09:01.840 I mean you you you have to rest some time. 2:09:01.920 --> 2:09:02.600 I don't believe. 2:09:02.760 --> 2:09:06.000 I don't believe in it. I mean, wow, So today 2:09:06.360 --> 2:09:12.400 is wow. Today's day ninety eight. So barring anything untoward, 2:09:12.440 --> 2:09:18.840 I'll break one hundred days. Listen, you get older, everything 2:09:19.000 --> 2:09:24.800 becomes meaningless and it's only these core things that Okay. 2:09:24.840 --> 2:09:27.800 I was listening to the new Elton John Brandy Carlisle 2:09:27.840 --> 2:09:32.120 record today and the first song is about Laura and Nero, 2:09:33.040 --> 2:09:36.600 and that really set my mind going. I saw a 2:09:36.920 --> 2:09:40.760 Nero number of times, big fan, et cetera. Forgetting when 2:09:40.800 --> 2:09:42.960 she came back with Donnie. I know Donnie's story. She 2:09:42.960 --> 2:09:46.040 wouldn't be on SDL because of her weight, forget all that. 2:09:47.080 --> 2:09:52.560 But it unclicked me in that this crazy political era. 2:09:53.080 --> 2:09:56.440 All of a sudden, the door opened and I felt 2:09:56.480 --> 2:09:58.760 like myself and I could see where I'm doing. I mean, 2:09:58.760 --> 2:10:02.080 we all have obligation, so you can't always do what 2:10:02.120 --> 2:10:04.480 you want to do. I mean, listen, I could go 2:10:04.560 --> 2:10:08.000 on about this forever. So what are the important things? 2:10:08.040 --> 2:10:12.560 I don't have any children, You have children, family, whatever, Okay, 2:10:13.200 --> 2:10:18.400 eating sex, that's and reproducing that That's just about it. 2:10:18.680 --> 2:10:21.880 So anything you put on top, I mean, okay, let 2:10:21.920 --> 2:10:24.800 me switch throw it back to you. You take the 2:10:24.840 --> 2:10:29.960 buyout from Columbia, how long does it take you to 2:10:30.080 --> 2:10:35.480 emotionally adjust? 2:10:38.160 --> 2:10:46.080 Honestly, no time, because when I left, I left in 2:10:46.120 --> 2:10:49.000 two thousand and three, the business that I knew was gone, 2:10:50.160 --> 2:10:54.240 and so I wasn't leaving. People kept saying, but you're leaving, 2:10:55.280 --> 2:10:57.760 you know this great business, And I said, I'm leaving 2:10:58.320 --> 2:11:02.160 a family of people. And I've and I've got decades, 2:11:02.200 --> 2:11:04.440 like because I've I've stayed there so long. I knew 2:11:04.440 --> 2:11:07.240 people from the seventies, from the eighties, from the nineties, 2:11:07.520 --> 2:11:11.600 from the two thousands, I said. But I said, I 2:11:12.520 --> 2:11:16.280 just had the rock and roll adventure of a lifetime 2:11:16.920 --> 2:11:20.520 and it's gone. The priorities are different. I had to 2:11:20.520 --> 2:11:23.240 produce three DVDs for this TV show I had live 2:11:23.280 --> 2:11:26.840 by request. They just wanted to get them out. I said, no, 2:11:27.080 --> 2:11:30.040 they these have to be special. They have to have 2:11:30.200 --> 2:11:32.760 they have to have extras. I was tell you know, 2:11:32.760 --> 2:11:36.480 I was taking, you know, cues from watching movie DVDs. 2:11:37.200 --> 2:11:38.600 I know, we have to have extras. I want to 2:11:38.640 --> 2:11:40.760 do an interview with the band, or I want to 2:11:40.760 --> 2:11:44.640 do something special. These DVDs have to have extras. And 2:11:44.680 --> 2:11:47.320 they were like, I don't care what you do. Make 2:11:47.360 --> 2:11:49.520 sure you get them out by Christmas. That's what I 2:11:49.560 --> 2:11:52.840 need you to do. It was changing. It was like 2:11:52.960 --> 2:11:58.160 that's I can't like, so no, I I it you know, 2:11:58.240 --> 2:12:00.520 hey man, thanks for thirty three and at theirs years, 2:12:00.960 --> 2:12:04.240 you know, like I did it, I didn't miss it. 2:12:12.280 --> 2:12:15.960 All of us who were around then when you walked 2:12:15.960 --> 2:12:19.760 out the building, it was no longer fun. But let's 2:12:19.800 --> 2:12:23.000 talk about you. So you have a twenty four to 2:12:23.000 --> 2:12:26.160 seven job. How do you adjust after that? 2:12:28.680 --> 2:12:32.760 Well, I think you do. I think you just adjust 2:12:32.840 --> 2:12:39.640 as life, you know, you know, as life demands. Okay, 2:12:39.680 --> 2:12:44.200 the twenty four to seven job changed. I will say 2:12:44.200 --> 2:12:50.040 that changed dramatically in nineteen ninety because when I the 2:12:50.120 --> 2:12:54.920 last thing I did in promotion was Alice in Chains 2:12:54.960 --> 2:12:57.280 and I went to Donnie Heiner and I said, listen, 2:12:58.120 --> 2:12:59.920 I think I'm repeating myself now that I'm been doing 2:13:00.000 --> 2:13:02.720 promotion for twenty two years, I have a lot of 2:13:02.800 --> 2:13:06.800 ideas of how to help artists and promote artists and 2:13:06.960 --> 2:13:11.400 and and you know, breakthrough. Other than just getting records 2:13:11.440 --> 2:13:13.560 played on radio and doing big promotions. I have some 2:13:13.600 --> 2:13:18.640 other ideas. And he was great about it. You know, 2:13:18.640 --> 2:13:20.840 most people would just say, hey, wrap twenty two years. Great, 2:13:21.200 --> 2:13:24.320 you know, here's your out, you know, check and thank you. 2:13:25.360 --> 2:13:29.480 He was wonderful. He knew I had vision, he said. 2:13:29.760 --> 2:13:31.600 I told him about some of my ideas. He said, 2:13:31.640 --> 2:13:34.000 if you think you can do this, make up a 2:13:34.040 --> 2:13:37.560 title for yourself. How's this, Bob, make up a title 2:13:37.560 --> 2:13:40.640 for yourself. I'm going to give you three hundred thousand 2:13:40.680 --> 2:13:43.440 dollars budget, give you a year. See what you can do. 2:13:44.320 --> 2:13:46.360 Who does that, Bob? You're any record company presidents that 2:13:46.480 --> 2:13:48.360 do that? Most of them just write you off. 2:13:48.440 --> 2:13:48.640 Right. 2:13:49.000 --> 2:13:50.520 But he knew me, and he's seen what I did. 2:13:52.600 --> 2:14:01.160 I said, thanks. Then my job changed and I still 2:14:01.160 --> 2:14:04.200 had sleepless nights, but not as many because I just 2:14:04.240 --> 2:14:07.160 get amped. I do big, as you read in the book, 2:14:07.200 --> 2:14:09.840 I'm the guy that shoots laser beams off mountain sides 2:14:09.880 --> 2:14:13.560 and fucking makes airships, and you know, when it's big, 2:14:13.600 --> 2:14:15.640 it's a lot of pressure. But I would have but 2:14:15.640 --> 2:14:19.720 but it wasn't the same. It wasn't because I didn't 2:14:19.760 --> 2:14:22.280 have to go to every show then because I'm not 2:14:22.520 --> 2:14:25.480 on the front lines now. I'm doing behind the scenes 2:14:25.480 --> 2:14:29.360 of marketing. So things did change for me in nineteen 2:14:29.440 --> 2:14:32.640 ninety and I could be home to see the kids 2:14:32.800 --> 2:14:35.440 at certain times. It didn't have to be out every night, 2:14:36.000 --> 2:14:38.960 and that was a pleasant change. You know, you know, 2:14:39.000 --> 2:14:42.800 I had my fun, Believe me, but that you know, 2:14:43.040 --> 2:14:45.800 that was good and and everything I did past that 2:14:48.080 --> 2:14:52.480 is still if you're in the music business. It's still 2:14:52.680 --> 2:14:55.200 a lifestyle. Even in today's music business. I mean, it's 2:14:55.240 --> 2:14:58.360 still a lifestyle. So it never ceased to become a lifestyle. 2:14:59.240 --> 2:15:04.680 But but the idea of you know that this constant 2:15:04.720 --> 2:15:07.680 you know, Sunday night pressure, this Monday night pressure, this 2:15:07.840 --> 2:15:11.560 every week pressure. That kind of pressure was lifted and 2:15:11.600 --> 2:15:14.400 I would only have pressure like before this next radio show, 2:15:14.520 --> 2:15:16.880 before this next television show. What you know, you do 2:15:16.920 --> 2:15:19.800 a life television show. There's a lot of pressure live 2:15:19.840 --> 2:15:22.520 without a net, right, But it's different because it would 2:15:22.520 --> 2:15:24.560 only last for that project and then it would go 2:15:24.600 --> 2:15:27.480 away and then you'd have like a vacation for a 2:15:27.480 --> 2:15:28.720 few weeks. So my life did change. 2:15:28.760 --> 2:15:31.960 Let me let me put it a different way. Donnie 2:15:32.120 --> 2:15:36.120 worked at Arista. Then he was president of Columbia, had 2:15:36.120 --> 2:15:41.360 a great run. It ended then that was you know, 2:15:41.520 --> 2:15:45.320 the dot com era. He would come to Los Angeles. 2:15:45.440 --> 2:15:47.680 I would go to see some company he was involved, 2:15:47.680 --> 2:15:53.680 We sign an NDA whatever. Eventually he said I'm done. Okay. 2:15:54.440 --> 2:15:57.080 So after you walked out of the building in two 2:15:57.080 --> 2:16:00.960 thousand and three, were you saying you're done then, or 2:16:01.080 --> 2:16:04.440 did you want to have certain business enterprises? How did 2:16:04.480 --> 2:16:06.960 you segue to where you are now? Oh? 2:16:07.000 --> 2:16:09.600 No, no, no, no. I wasn't done with the music business. 2:16:09.640 --> 2:16:12.400 I was just you know, they were offering these big 2:16:12.440 --> 2:16:13.680 time retirement packages. 2:16:13.720 --> 2:16:16.600 They were yeah, yeah, we covered that. But now you 2:16:16.760 --> 2:16:18.800 get your check and you're totally free. 2:16:19.200 --> 2:16:21.200 Right. No, no, no, But the point I want to 2:16:21.240 --> 2:16:25.680 make is you need to understand this. The year before 2:16:25.720 --> 2:16:30.320 I left, they said, this is what's going to happen. 2:16:31.480 --> 2:16:36.000 We're going to pay you for the next year. You 2:16:36.000 --> 2:16:40.520 don't need to do anything. You can just retire. And 2:16:40.560 --> 2:16:43.600 a friend of mine, who was the controller in the 2:16:43.879 --> 2:16:46.040 controller at the time, said, but if I were you, 2:16:46.080 --> 2:16:49.040 because I know you and you want to start another business, 2:16:49.959 --> 2:16:52.520 you got a free ride because we're going to pay 2:16:52.560 --> 2:16:55.440 you for this entire year. And I had another friend 2:16:55.480 --> 2:17:00.120 of mine, Ron Hartenbaum, who's ran Media America and you 2:17:00.160 --> 2:17:03.720 know it's in the communications industry. He said, rap, you're 2:17:03.720 --> 2:17:06.440 an entrepreneur, somebo are you talking about because all these 2:17:06.440 --> 2:17:08.520 things you do, you're an entrepreneur. I never thought of 2:17:08.560 --> 2:17:10.680 myself as that. He goes, No, you do all these things. 2:17:11.280 --> 2:17:12.640 You come to my office I'm going to give you 2:17:12.640 --> 2:17:16.120 a free office and a telephone. See what you can do. 2:17:16.160 --> 2:17:19.000 Just I know your mind. He goes, just come over here, 2:17:19.560 --> 2:17:22.080 and I began to think, well, maybe Ron is right, 2:17:22.080 --> 2:17:24.240 and I thought, well, what can I do now? I 2:17:24.280 --> 2:17:27.879 had done a radio series for Columbia called the Columbia 2:17:27.879 --> 2:17:30.360 Records Radio Hour, which is I'm really proud of it. 2:17:30.360 --> 2:17:32.960 You go find it online. There's some great music on there. 2:17:33.840 --> 2:17:36.600 And I had created a radio series. I'm not the 2:17:36.640 --> 2:17:38.600 retiring kind. I mean, Bob, I wrote this book, but 2:17:39.160 --> 2:17:41.040 after I promote this book, I'll do something else. I'm not. 2:17:41.320 --> 2:17:44.119 I'll never retire. I can't. I need to do stuff. 2:17:44.120 --> 2:17:49.800 I'm just built that way. So so I started immediately. 2:17:49.879 --> 2:17:51.720 I didn't take a break. It was just like, I'm 2:17:51.720 --> 2:17:54.480 not doing this anymore. What can I do? Okay, well, 2:17:54.560 --> 2:17:57.080 I'm going to let's I'll do with the Columbia Records 2:17:57.120 --> 2:18:00.080 Radio Hour, but I'll just do a different name. And 2:18:00.120 --> 2:18:01.960 I called all my friends in radio and said, hey, hey, 2:18:02.480 --> 2:18:07.720 I'm going to do this, and they said, we're kind 2:18:07.720 --> 2:18:11.240 of over that thing now and we don't want it 2:18:11.280 --> 2:18:13.600 to be at an exact same time. Because I was 2:18:13.600 --> 2:18:15.400 doing live radio that was a live radio show on 2:18:15.440 --> 2:18:17.440 Sunday mornings, a singer song of radio show. You tune 2:18:17.480 --> 2:18:19.800 in live. They said, but if you want to create 2:18:19.879 --> 2:18:23.320 radio specials, we're all about that. And I went, okay, 2:18:23.680 --> 2:18:28.800 I'll create radio specials. And I I took this friend 2:18:28.800 --> 2:18:30.600 of mine who had helped me do all the stuff 2:18:30.640 --> 2:18:34.560 at Columbia, the radio show and the television shows, fabulous engineer, 2:18:34.600 --> 2:18:39.279 producer guy named Mitch Mcatanski, and another friend of mine 2:18:39.720 --> 2:18:44.200 who was a scriptwriter, and I said, we're going to 2:18:44.360 --> 2:18:46.600 We're gonna do radio shows. And I have all these connections, 2:18:46.600 --> 2:18:48.200 so I just go to the record companies and go, hey, 2:18:48.440 --> 2:18:50.600 you want a radio show for a new album coming out? 2:18:51.080 --> 2:18:56.039 And we produced radio shows for three years. The company 2:18:56.120 --> 2:18:58.640 name was Trey Sombres because I'm a big Zzy Top fan. 2:18:59.000 --> 2:19:01.080 And there were three of us and our company was 2:19:01.120 --> 2:19:05.480 Treys Onmbres and we produced radio shows god at least 2:19:05.800 --> 2:19:11.720 six years, if not longer, and it was lucrative enough 2:19:11.760 --> 2:19:15.040 for the three of us to do it. Mitch also 2:19:15.440 --> 2:19:19.920 ran a business. He's like the mobile truck guy. Now, 2:19:19.920 --> 2:19:21.480 if you want a mobile truck, you call three M 2:19:21.480 --> 2:19:23.840 that's him, and he was doing that. But that was 2:19:23.920 --> 2:19:27.200 lucrative enough. And then when that tailed out, I got 2:19:27.200 --> 2:19:30.199 a call from Judy Lebau, who you knows ex Atlantic. 2:19:30.440 --> 2:19:35.880 She wanted to do independent promotion for classic rock. Right. 2:19:36.240 --> 2:19:37.840 There was a guy, Paul Yeskell used to do it. 2:19:37.840 --> 2:19:40.400 He passed away. She bought his business. She said, do 2:19:40.440 --> 2:19:43.400 you want to do this again? I said, I don't 2:19:43.440 --> 2:19:45.480 really know because I'm kind of tapped out, like I 2:19:45.480 --> 2:19:48.080 feel like I did it right. And she says, well, 2:19:48.120 --> 2:19:50.920 just try it with me. We had a really good time. 2:19:51.040 --> 2:19:53.560 First of all, I saw re I got to work 2:19:53.560 --> 2:19:55.800 with all these characters I worked with the first time. 2:19:56.120 --> 2:19:58.000 I'd be on the phone with Journey. Have you on 2:19:58.000 --> 2:20:00.840 the phone with Neil Sean's like rap is that you? 2:20:01.480 --> 2:20:05.120 I go yeah, I go yeah. He was like holy shit, really, 2:20:05.160 --> 2:20:07.959 I go yeah, you know, And so I would, you know, 2:20:08.000 --> 2:20:09.959 and I and I so and again I would. I 2:20:09.959 --> 2:20:13.320 worked really close with David Gilmore and Nick you know, 2:20:13.400 --> 2:20:16.800 for any Pink Floyd box sets, I would go over 2:20:16.840 --> 2:20:20.240 and interview David. I mean again, you go back to 2:20:20.280 --> 2:20:23.760 the family for a second. Right, new manager Steve o'rourck 2:20:23.800 --> 2:20:26.160 passed away, sadly, new manager Apollo's but you got to 2:20:26.160 --> 2:20:29.240 come over here and interview Gilmore for this box set. 2:20:29.320 --> 2:20:33.000 I go, I'm not an interviewer, Like, that's not what 2:20:33.040 --> 2:20:35.720 I do. Like I'm behind the scenes guy. No, no, 2:20:36.320 --> 2:20:38.800 we need you. He is the only guy who wants 2:20:38.840 --> 2:20:42.920 to talk to right, He's just you know, just do it, 2:20:43.360 --> 2:20:46.000 you know, I said, okay, you know, so I did 2:20:46.000 --> 2:20:48.920 the best I could. There's interviews with me on YouTube 2:20:48.959 --> 2:20:50.680 interviewing Dave Gilmore. By the time you get to the 2:20:50.720 --> 2:20:53.280 third one, I'm actually okay, right, but it's not what 2:20:53.320 --> 2:20:57.160 I do. But so these things would happen for me 2:20:57.280 --> 2:21:02.000 just just by reputation, right, And I would do, you know, 2:21:02.520 --> 2:21:05.760 guitar things for you know, the guitars or whatever. So 2:21:05.800 --> 2:21:08.160 I did, Judy, and I did that for ten years. 2:21:08.520 --> 2:21:10.760 And I wrote a blog which I had a blast writing. 2:21:10.800 --> 2:21:13.560 I'd talk about new music. I got to be you man, 2:21:13.600 --> 2:21:17.000 I was dissing everybody. I was like, I didn't care. 2:21:17.480 --> 2:21:19.320 You know, I don't care anymore. It's like, what the 2:21:19.400 --> 2:21:21.720 fuck is this shit? Right? Are you telling me? This 2:21:21.800 --> 2:21:24.160 is you know? I mean, i'd get hate mail, right, 2:21:24.320 --> 2:21:27.160 this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Right, Wait, wait, Bob, 2:21:27.160 --> 2:21:30.400 how's this? I interviewed Gill okay, if we're on YouTube. 2:21:30.920 --> 2:21:36.320 Oh shit, people fucking comment. Right I interview Gilmore. I 2:21:36.400 --> 2:21:38.720 get one comment, Oh god, this guy rap Ward's great. 2:21:38.800 --> 2:21:41.240 He's asking him every question I ever wanted to ask him. Well, 2:21:41.280 --> 2:21:43.560 of course I'm a fan. I'm asking him those questions. Right, 2:21:43.760 --> 2:21:47.440 next comment, this guy rapping Board is a fucking idiot, Like, 2:21:47.600 --> 2:21:51.959 doesn't he know that Comfortably Numb has been played millions 2:21:51.959 --> 2:21:54.640 of times on radio. It's not three hundred and you know, 2:21:54.640 --> 2:21:57.840 fifty six thousand or whatever. I happen to research, you 2:21:57.959 --> 2:22:00.040 fucking idiot. You know, it's like, do you think I 2:22:00.360 --> 2:22:02.520 come in to interview David gilmert, I don't know what 2:22:02.600 --> 2:22:06.039 I'm talking about, you know, so you know, so you 2:22:06.080 --> 2:22:08.520 know it's you know, so I did that for ten 2:22:08.640 --> 2:22:11.640 years and then and then six years ago I told Judy, 2:22:11.680 --> 2:22:13.560 I said, you know that this book has just been 2:22:13.640 --> 2:22:16.480 it's calling out to me, Judy. It's like someone, someone 2:22:16.560 --> 2:22:22.160 has to document this, someone has to talk about these characters, 2:22:22.200 --> 2:22:26.800 the Herbie Herbert's, the fucking Sandy Pearlman's of you know, 2:22:26.879 --> 2:22:30.000 Bloyster called when the fucking flash plots go off with 2:22:30.040 --> 2:22:32.160 too much powder, and I thought we killed the fucking 2:22:32.360 --> 2:22:34.920 band and took out the first three rows of audience, 2:22:35.120 --> 2:22:39.160 and all Sandy's like fucking mister Peabody and Peabody and Sherman, 2:22:39.560 --> 2:22:45.280 and all he does is look out and go positively nuclear. Right, 2:22:45.760 --> 2:22:48.360 I'm Sandy, and we might have killed people. He's, you know, 2:22:48.440 --> 2:22:53.440 like the Bob you know you're talking about. Someone had 2:22:53.440 --> 2:22:57.640 to capture this bob you're talking about, you know, bowling 2:22:57.640 --> 2:23:00.560 in the hallways in the afternoon water gun fire. I 2:23:00.560 --> 2:23:04.000 had a fun fucking fencing duel with with Bruce Dickinson 2:23:04.080 --> 2:23:07.440 from Iron Maiden down the halls of Columbia, you know, 2:23:08.680 --> 2:23:11.360 businest meetings about how we can't set our table on 2:23:11.440 --> 2:23:15.200 fire anymore. Someone had to fucking put this down. Because 2:23:15.240 --> 2:23:17.520 you want to know something, Bob, we are getting older 2:23:17.560 --> 2:23:20.240 and when we're gone, if nobody writes it, it's gonna 2:23:20.240 --> 2:23:23.800 be gone. And you were there, Come on, man, it's 2:23:23.840 --> 2:23:26.400 guys and dolls only it's the record business and we 2:23:26.440 --> 2:23:29.000 have all we have, all these fucking characters. Somebody's got 2:23:29.000 --> 2:23:32.560 to write about these fucking people. Forget the artists. What 2:23:32.600 --> 2:23:36.760 about fucking what Johnny Baggs, right, John Babcock. All this 2:23:36.800 --> 2:23:39.760 guy ever says is get down Hey, John, will you 2:23:39.760 --> 2:23:42.600 approve this? Get down? Okay? Do you smoked a lot 2:23:42.600 --> 2:23:45.840 of dope? Needs to say quaylas, But everybody loved him. Okay, 2:23:45.840 --> 2:23:48.440 it used to be out in John's road manager. Then right, 2:23:48.800 --> 2:23:51.800 if he really wanted to make a point, get down, 2:23:52.600 --> 2:23:57.400 and then oh no, then this one. Get fucking down. 2:23:58.040 --> 2:24:01.360 Somebody asked her, this guy's real. Okay when this book. 2:24:01.400 --> 2:24:04.400 After I promote this book, I'm going to TV Bob 2:24:04.800 --> 2:24:08.840 forget Vinyl. What a horrible show. It's not a fucking documentary. 2:24:08.920 --> 2:24:11.960 This is a fucking sitcom. This book is a sitcom 2:24:12.120 --> 2:24:15.200 and all the characters are already written. They're written. It's 2:24:15.200 --> 2:24:17.880 a great jumping off point for any Hollywood writer. You 2:24:17.959 --> 2:24:21.280 couldn't make this shit up in your wildest dreams. These 2:24:21.320 --> 2:24:23.800 are real people and this is how they really were. 2:24:24.120 --> 2:24:26.240 So yeah, So six years ago I said I gotta 2:24:26.320 --> 2:24:27.920 do this and I just started. 2:24:28.000 --> 2:24:30.920 I just remember you talk about these pag We was 2:24:31.000 --> 2:24:37.760 a a Pollock convention and it was at the Century Plaza. 2:24:37.800 --> 2:24:38.720 Huh. 2:24:38.800 --> 2:24:41.400 There were a lot of crazy things. You Australians drank 2:24:41.480 --> 2:24:43.560 through the bottles into the pool. They had to drain 2:24:43.640 --> 2:24:48.480 the pool big But I was in the Atlantic suite. 2:24:49.280 --> 2:24:52.520 It's six in the morning, and who shows up at 2:24:52.520 --> 2:24:56.039 a suit and tie ricks glore. He goes, I'm on 2:24:56.120 --> 2:25:00.959 New York time. Wow. And then he died within the year, 2:25:01.720 --> 2:25:06.040 which was so weird. But there are many more stories 2:25:06.040 --> 2:25:08.680 in the book. It's a great read. But before you go, 2:25:08.920 --> 2:25:12.480 I have one more subject. I want to discuss Mogan 2:25:12.680 --> 2:25:16.960 David in the Winos. I heard from Harold just before 2:25:17.040 --> 2:25:19.160 we started it. So, okay, in case you don't know, 2:25:19.800 --> 2:25:23.680 Harold Bronson one of the Rhino Brothers, known to a 2:25:23.720 --> 2:25:29.439 great degree for musical comedy and a lot of innovative ideas. 2:25:29.760 --> 2:25:33.760 By time I became friends with Harold, Mogan David and 2:25:33.800 --> 2:25:36.160 the Winos was in the rear view, Mirriort. Not that 2:25:36.200 --> 2:25:39.320 Harold did not talk about it and talk about you. 2:25:40.520 --> 2:25:43.320 I always though it as more of a lark. I mean, 2:25:43.520 --> 2:25:46.280 Harold's got his own sense of humor. But in the 2:25:46.320 --> 2:25:51.120 book you said when the Ramones hit, we could have 2:25:51.160 --> 2:25:54.360 had that slot. So tell me about Mogen David and 2:25:54.440 --> 2:25:55.120 the Winos. 2:25:55.320 --> 2:25:59.240 Okay, Well, to be clear, that's what Harold said. Okay, 2:25:59.640 --> 2:26:02.800 Because I thought it was a lark. When I was 2:26:02.800 --> 2:26:05.400 in the band, we had a lot of fun Harold's 2:26:05.680 --> 2:26:08.480 very you know, got a big imagination. He wrote really 2:26:08.520 --> 2:26:11.680 fun songs. We made our own record. We didn't know 2:26:11.680 --> 2:26:13.320 what the hell we were doing. We went to We're 2:26:13.360 --> 2:26:15.080 snugging a recording studio in the middle of the night. 2:26:15.160 --> 2:26:19.959 Look e Q, what does that mean? Like? We didn't know. Consequently, 2:26:20.000 --> 2:26:23.200 the record sounds like it sounds I don't know if 2:26:23.200 --> 2:26:30.360 you write record, but okay, sorry, But we were creative, 2:26:32.320 --> 2:26:36.360 I'll give us that, and we were rehearsed, but we 2:26:36.400 --> 2:26:41.280 did wild shit. He wrote a song for Stan Berkowitz, 2:26:41.280 --> 2:26:43.600 who was the editor of The Daily Bruin. We were 2:26:43.640 --> 2:26:46.199 going to college together at UCLA. It's a blue song. 2:26:46.240 --> 2:26:49.640 It's called the Burkowitz Blues. So instead of me playing 2:26:49.640 --> 2:26:53.120 a pentatonic blue scale on guitar, I said, Harold, I'm 2:26:53.120 --> 2:26:56.240 going to play a typewriter. So when you hear the solo, 2:26:56.360 --> 2:27:00.840 you hear like a blues thing, like you hear click 2:27:01.120 --> 2:27:04.000 click click click click click click click, like talking with 2:27:04.040 --> 2:27:07.440 the blues guitar. But it's a typewriter, right. We had 2:27:07.520 --> 2:27:11.920 inserts because we saw our whole album cover is a 2:27:12.320 --> 2:27:15.360 takeoff on Savage Young Winos. It's a takeoff on the 2:27:15.360 --> 2:27:18.720 Savage Young Beatles. The album cover is a knockoff of 2:27:18.760 --> 2:27:22.160 their cover. We had inserts because we saw Who's Live 2:27:22.200 --> 2:27:23.880 at Leads. We loved it the fold out right, so 2:27:23.920 --> 2:27:28.040 we made we copied it full down. There's there's there's 2:27:28.280 --> 2:27:32.080 nine inserts right that you get. Okay, you get my 2:27:32.320 --> 2:27:36.240 flunked music final. I flunked music one at UCLA. Okay, 2:27:36.760 --> 2:27:38.960 because I'm not a math guy. Math and I don't 2:27:38.959 --> 2:27:42.280 get along theory is all math. I fucking flunked music one. 2:27:42.440 --> 2:27:45.000 I almost didn't graduate because I didn't realize I didn't 2:27:45.040 --> 2:27:46.960 have enough credits and they said you don't have enough 2:27:47.000 --> 2:27:49.800 credits and I said, no, I I only have one 2:27:49.879 --> 2:27:52.080 D and that was in logic, and you know, was 2:27:52.120 --> 2:27:54.480 that prepared me for the music business? But you know, 2:27:54.520 --> 2:27:56.440 I said, they said, no, you flund a class. I 2:27:56.440 --> 2:27:58.160 didn't flun the click. I said, you flucked music one. 2:27:58.200 --> 2:28:00.600 I go, no, that was a joke. Well you might 2:28:00.600 --> 2:28:02.240 think as a joke, but you need the X amount 2:28:02.280 --> 2:28:04.720 of credits, right, So you get my f one. You know, 2:28:04.920 --> 2:28:07.160 my flunk music. Finally you get a cartoon. You get 2:28:07.160 --> 2:28:10.200 all these kind of things. The liner notes are hysterical. 2:28:10.320 --> 2:28:12.280 Forget listening to the record. We the liner notes, Harold's 2:28:12.320 --> 2:28:15.920 fucking great writer. Right, So I thought it was fun 2:28:17.640 --> 2:28:19.520 and I but I didn't think we were that good. 2:28:19.560 --> 2:28:23.560 Now here's an important point. Okay, what did we not 2:28:23.879 --> 2:28:27.760 know in the early seventies, Bob, We did not know 2:28:27.920 --> 2:28:31.440 that there was something called the Wrecking Crew? And so 2:28:31.480 --> 2:28:33.600 what I would listen to records and go, Beryld, We're 2:28:33.640 --> 2:28:36.040 just not good in it. We're not good enough. We're 2:28:36.040 --> 2:28:40.440 not those people. Well guess what, Bob. Neither were they. 2:28:40.520 --> 2:28:42.080 You know, they were making it up as they went along. 2:28:42.080 --> 2:28:45.000 But we didn't know. If we would have gotten signed, 2:28:45.040 --> 2:28:47.600 we might have been something because somebody has said, hey, 2:28:47.720 --> 2:28:49.760 rap play it this way, or if you can't, I'll 2:28:49.760 --> 2:28:52.840 get somebody to play it. We didn't know. So I 2:28:52.879 --> 2:28:57.800 told Harold and I'm you know, I'm I'm an adventurer, 2:28:58.000 --> 2:28:59.840 but I like to come home at the end. I mean, 2:28:59.879 --> 2:29:01.560 I knew wouldn't I wouldn't make it on the road. 2:29:01.560 --> 2:29:03.600 I wasn't going to survive. I'd be a road casualty. 2:29:03.760 --> 2:29:05.920 I know me, I couldn't do it, couldn't live on 2:29:05.959 --> 2:29:08.039 the road. So I knew it early on. As much 2:29:08.040 --> 2:29:10.440 as I would like to be a rock star, this 2:29:10.520 --> 2:29:12.120 can't be a vocation for me. But I'm just going 2:29:12.160 --> 2:29:13.720 to keep playing guitar because I love it. But I 2:29:13.920 --> 2:29:17.600 you know, the Columbia job came up. Harold was the 2:29:17.680 --> 2:29:19.760 college rep. I'd hired him when I got the real 2:29:19.840 --> 2:29:22.520 job at Columbia to follow me, and he wanted to 2:29:22.520 --> 2:29:24.039 take the band on the road. And I said, Harold, 2:29:24.040 --> 2:29:27.760 you know, we're having fun. We made a record, we 2:29:27.800 --> 2:29:30.000 made a thousand records, we sold a thousand records. We 2:29:30.000 --> 2:29:37.360 sold records world over. I have reviews from Japan and 2:29:37.400 --> 2:29:41.320 from France. I don't know what they say because I 2:29:41.320 --> 2:29:43.280 don't know if they liked it or not. But Harold 2:29:43.320 --> 2:29:45.440 made a little folder for us. I have reviews from 2:29:45.440 --> 2:29:48.520 all over and we had friends in the press right 2:29:48.640 --> 2:29:51.000 They loved us in La. You know, I got a 2:29:51.000 --> 2:29:54.000 great compliment from you know, Harvey Kopernick about my solo 2:29:54.080 --> 2:29:56.760 and you know, communication breakdown, all this kind of stuff. 2:29:57.080 --> 2:29:59.400 So but I did not think it could go past 2:29:59.480 --> 2:30:02.800 that now did Okay? But then he said to me, well, 2:30:02.800 --> 2:30:04.800 if you're going to get a real job at Columbia, 2:30:05.120 --> 2:30:07.000 I'm going to go work with Richard Foz. He wants 2:30:07.040 --> 2:30:10.400 to start a label, which was Rhino right, which he did, 2:30:11.320 --> 2:30:15.160 and he did fine. Right, he's not complaining and I 2:30:15.200 --> 2:30:19.080 did fine, So neither of us are complaining. But then 2:30:19.120 --> 2:30:21.760 when the ramones hit, because Harold and I have been 2:30:21.800 --> 2:30:24.600 friends for years, he called me and he goes, you see, 2:30:24.840 --> 2:30:28.240 he goes, this could have been us, and Bob will 2:30:28.280 --> 2:30:31.520 never know because it could have been We will never 2:30:31.640 --> 2:30:33.760 know because it's not like we didn't have talent, and 2:30:33.800 --> 2:30:36.039 it was not like Harold wasn't writing really good songs. 2:30:36.480 --> 2:30:39.720 He wrote teenage tanks. I mean, this guy's you know, 2:30:39.800 --> 2:30:41.360 he's got it. So I don't know but that. But 2:30:41.520 --> 2:30:42.879 we had a lot of fun, and I just didn't 2:30:42.920 --> 2:30:45.200 think it was going to go that far. And so 2:30:45.240 --> 2:30:47.000 I did what I did, and he went to Rhino. 2:30:46.800 --> 2:30:50.120 And Okay, I think that we've come to the end 2:30:50.160 --> 2:30:51.880 of the feeling we've known. I could talk to you 2:30:52.040 --> 2:30:55.360 all night, you know, about all these things. 2:30:55.400 --> 2:30:58.360 But rap, well, when you stop skiing and I come 2:30:58.440 --> 2:31:00.959 to LA, I'll take you to that. It would be 2:31:01.040 --> 2:31:04.039 my pleasure. I'm one of your biggest fans. I look 2:31:04.120 --> 2:31:07.120 for it. You got to understand, left, that's they don't 2:31:07.160 --> 2:31:11.360 make guys like you anymore. Right, It's a fucking treasure. 2:31:11.680 --> 2:31:14.720 Like the Left Sad's letter is a treasure, the podcasts 2:31:14.720 --> 2:31:17.920 are a treasure. I can't thank you enough for having 2:31:17.959 --> 2:31:19.000 me on really well. 2:31:19.040 --> 2:31:22.640 Just to let it on that note. The book and 2:31:22.680 --> 2:31:25.800 I'm not blowing smoke up your ass does exactly what 2:31:25.840 --> 2:31:30.039 you set out to do. Literally captures an era. Not 2:31:30.080 --> 2:31:33.959 only does it capture an era no one else has. 2:31:34.640 --> 2:31:37.680 You know, you talk about all these movies like Almost Famous. 2:31:37.840 --> 2:31:40.959 That's a fantasy. That's not the way it worked. Because 2:31:41.000 --> 2:31:44.240 there was darkness along with the light, and you know 2:31:44.400 --> 2:31:47.800 people who burned out, and there was it was, you know, 2:31:47.920 --> 2:31:50.720 a free flowing circus. It was great. 2:31:51.680 --> 2:31:54.720 Yes, there was a free I say that five times fast. 2:31:54.760 --> 2:31:59.360 It was a free flowing circus. That's exactly what it was. 2:32:00.280 --> 2:32:03.640 Okay, by Rap's book, you're gonna love it. And I 2:32:03.680 --> 2:32:07.360 don't you know, usually boost things, but you know, this 2:32:07.480 --> 2:32:09.120 is what you're looking for. You want to know the 2:32:09.160 --> 2:32:12.800 way it was until next time. This is Bob left 2:32:12.879 --> 2:32:13.199 stets