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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Such podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is full of Rapaport, who has a

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Speaker 1: new autobiography, Glider's Over Hollywood. Why that title.

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Speaker 2: That title came from the editor's suggestion. I was having

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Speaker 2: trouble coming up with a title for the book all

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Speaker 2: the years I was writing it, which was like six years.

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Speaker 2: I just couldn't grab a tight I just couldn't come

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Speaker 2: up with a title that would capture it. And he said,

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Speaker 2: you know, let's look inside the book. Maybe you have

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Speaker 2: something there that already is a title. And he liked

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Speaker 2: my original chapter. It was called Gliders Over Hollywood. And

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Speaker 2: he liked it because it connoted, you know, the fun

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Speaker 2: that we had, you know, back in the day, and

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Speaker 2: and and in some ways, you know, in an odd way,

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Speaker 2: all of us in the business were maybe sort of

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Speaker 2: like Gliders over Hollywood, like you know, dropping our little

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Speaker 2: promotion bombs or music or whatever. He said, Look, he

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Speaker 2: just was enamored with it, and he said, I would

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Speaker 2: love to make this the title of the book, and

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Speaker 2: then we'll give it a subtitle. So, you know, the

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Speaker 2: subtitle says Airship's Airplay and the Art of Rock promotion,

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Speaker 2: maybe you get a better idea of what the book

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Speaker 2: is about. But he said, look, I really want you

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Speaker 2: to think about this title. And the more I thought

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Speaker 2: about it, I really liked it because you know, if

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Speaker 2: you look at it, you kind of go, huh, what

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Speaker 2: is that? Like? What is that about? Right? And then

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Speaker 2: if you look at the book cover, those guys did

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Speaker 2: an amazing job at that at this company's job on press.

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Speaker 2: And you know the guy that did the cover, Paul

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Speaker 2: Palmer Edwards, you know, put an airship coming. It looks

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Speaker 2: like it's coming over the Hollywood sign. It's perfect. Whole

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Speaker 2: thing worked out great. I'm pleased as punch, you know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, why did you write the book and why did

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Speaker 1: it take six years to write it?

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Speaker 2: I wrote the book because I I loved this time

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Speaker 2: that yeah, and you were there, Bob. I mean this

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Speaker 2: time the seventies, the eighties and the rock music business

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Speaker 2: was the most amazing, incredible, unbelievable, glorious time when it

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Speaker 2: was like the wild West and there were no rules

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Speaker 2: and we were making it up as we went along,

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Speaker 2: and there were all these characters, right, we were all characters.

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Speaker 2: You're a character, I'm a character. Forget the artist, the

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Speaker 2: fucking manager. We can we're cursing, right, that's okay, right,

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Speaker 2: the fucking man. I mean you're talking about a business.

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Speaker 2: This is business right where Okay? The manager of Journey

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Speaker 2: big band. Okay, Herbie Herbert. I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: ever met Herbert. Okay, Okry, I know them, Okay, okay, fine, okay,

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Speaker 2: gets on a Yiddish kick. You read about it right

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Speaker 2: in the book. You know he's not even Jewish. He

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Speaker 2: gets on a Yiddish kick, sends Yiddish for Dummies books

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Speaker 2: to the whole industry, and says, if you want to

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Speaker 2: talk to me or they had a famous road manager

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Speaker 2: still with us, pat Bubba Moro, because if you want

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Speaker 2: to talk to me or Bubba, you have to speak

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Speaker 2: a couple of lines of Yiddish. So I get the book.

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Speaker 2: It's cute, great, fine, I'll never forget this. It's a Thursday. Okay.

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Speaker 2: I get a call Herbie Herbert, Herbie, how you doing?

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Speaker 2: Voshmachs too? You know, how are you? He's talking to

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Speaker 2: me in Yiddish. I'm saying, Herbie, I got the book.

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Speaker 2: It's cute, it's great, it's Thursday. You and I have

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Speaker 2: to decide this new single for this Journey record. We're

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Speaker 2: selling fifty thousand albums a week, and Bob, as you

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Speaker 2: well know, it's all about momentum and your timely releases

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Speaker 2: of singles. I have to tell the rock stations one

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Speaker 2: is coming out. We have to put the single in production.

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Speaker 2: We're down to a deadline, and I'm telling him we

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Speaker 2: got to do this now. He keeps talking Yiddish. He

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Speaker 2: doesn't stop for two minutes. Finally stops and he goes

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Speaker 2: rap raps my nickname because I'm lost him to rap

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Speaker 2: aport right, so Rap, What the fuck? A nice Jewish

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Speaker 2: boy like you ken't learn a couple of lines of Yiddish.

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Speaker 2: I'm like Hermie, I got it. I got the book.

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Speaker 2: It's cute, it's great, but this is important. We're selling

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Speaker 2: fifty thousand homes a week. We're on a deadline. I know.

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Speaker 2: Learn your Yiddish and call me back. Click ock, Bob.

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Speaker 2: This is rock and roll business in nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 2: I have to get the YIDDI if I want a

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Speaker 2: Journey single, I have to get a Yiddish book and

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Speaker 2: learn two lines of fucking Yiddish before I can talk

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Speaker 2: to him. This is real. This is not made up shit. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's just a tip of the iceberg of all this

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Speaker 2: stuff you and I experienced. And I just somebody. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm the guy that got the call. Great. Thanks. Somebody

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Speaker 2: had to write it, somebody had to capture all of

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Speaker 2: this because it's totally unbelievable. I don't know if it

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Speaker 2: could ever happen again. It's this magic time. Uh. And

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Speaker 2: it took six years because I wanted to get it right.

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Speaker 2: And look, you're a writer, You're a natural writer. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm not you. I had to learn how to write.

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Speaker 2: I wrote a blog for ten years for a website.

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Speaker 2: It was a promotion company that my friend Judy Lebaux owns,

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Speaker 2: which you probably know her ex Atlantic exec Rights, Yes,

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Speaker 2: Right Classics d jor So we work together for ten

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Speaker 2: years and there's a website that goes along with the

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Speaker 2: promotion we do. And I did a blog called Backstage

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Speaker 2: Access for ten years. And I learned how to write

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Speaker 2: in those ten years. And finally when I got to

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Speaker 2: the end, it was like, I think I'm good enough.

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Speaker 2: I found my voice. I found a writer's voice. I said,

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Speaker 2: I think I'm good enough. And the book had been

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Speaker 2: calling out to me to be written for years because

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Speaker 2: I love telling stories and I'm a natural at that.

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Speaker 2: I think I got it from my dad, but I'm

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Speaker 2: not a natural writer, so I had to learn that craft.

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Speaker 2: And then, lucky for me, there's a big time ghostwriter

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Speaker 2: in my town as a list guy, writes for presidents

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Speaker 2: and you know, movie stars. And he looked over my

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Speaker 2: shoulder and I would send him stuff and he'd say, hmm,

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Speaker 2: that's serviceable. And I'd say okay, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: another year, lext year, I'd send something else. He goes,

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Speaker 2: this is getting better. Finally, I think by the third year,

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Speaker 2: he goes, this is actually entertaining and enlightening. He says,

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Speaker 2: I think you're good to go, but I just wanted

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Speaker 2: to make it great. And in order to do that

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Speaker 2: it takes time. Writing is rewriting and rewriting and reworking

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Speaker 2: and throwing stuff out and putting stuff back in. I

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Speaker 2: went through four editors that helped me. The last one, well,

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Speaker 2: the last one was Tom Seabrook from Jobbone, who's like

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Speaker 2: professional and he got this and he said, you know,

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Speaker 2: this writing's great. He goes, But they're like producers, right,

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Speaker 2: He goes, like a producer. Hey, you got fifteen tracks,

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Speaker 2: let's cut it down to twelve. I'm going to re

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Speaker 2: sequence your album. And here's a better baseline, like for

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Speaker 2: this track. Right. So he's like that guy. So he

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Speaker 2: suggested all these things, and all I could do was say.

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Speaker 2: All I could do was listen and say thank you, yes,

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Speaker 2: thank you. Yes. This is not chapter one, this is

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Speaker 2: the prologue. This is books top heavy. I want to

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Speaker 2: move some of these chapters around. He goes, hey, look,

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Speaker 2: it's your book, but this is my suggestion. Okay. I

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Speaker 2: know from being a professional, I wished some of my

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Speaker 2: younger bands would have listened to me. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm smart enough to understand this is what this guy

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Speaker 2: does for a living. And it took a second because

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Speaker 2: the book was a little different, but I digested it

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Speaker 2: and I went, oh my god, this guy's made a

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Speaker 2: good book into a great book. I know I'm the

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Speaker 2: guy that wrote it, but it doesn't matter who wrote it.

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Speaker 2: This guy did this, you know, and so, but that's

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Speaker 2: why it took so long. And you know what, and

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Speaker 2: you know, Jim McKeon, right, of course, good friend, Look mack. Okay,

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Speaker 2: turns out the guy's an editor who knew the guy's

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Speaker 2: been one of my best friends my whole life. I'm

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Speaker 2: writing this way. He goes, oh, you should work with me.

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Speaker 2: I'm an editor. I was like, since when he goes, no, no,

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Speaker 2: I was in Catholic school, I learned from he's not

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Speaker 2: not at it. See, this guy is an editor, he bob.

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Speaker 2: This guy worked with me, I mean painstakingly, paragraph by paragraph,

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Speaker 2: line by line, word by word. You know, it was

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Speaker 2: like fucking Bruce Springsteen making a record. I mean, the

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Speaker 2: guy so cerebral. Right, this is what it felt like.

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Speaker 2: It was like, crap, there's a better word. This is

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Speaker 2: not the right word. You know, this is not you know,

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Speaker 2: it's not if you walk Paul McCartney down the street,

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Speaker 2: it's not a it's not a dangerous crowd. It's it's

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Speaker 2: going to be a challenging crowd. That's a better word.

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Speaker 2: So then I'd go ask my wife, Sharon, Max says, challenging,

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Speaker 2: What do you think? Yes, listen to Mac. You knows

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Speaker 2: what he's talking about. So it took a long time,

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Speaker 2: but it's I think. You know. I worked for a

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Speaker 2: lot of presidents and one of them was Don Einer.

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Speaker 2: And Don had a lot of wisdom. And he used

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Speaker 2: to tell artists, new artists who wanted to get their

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Speaker 2: records out right away. He'd say, listen, I want you

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Speaker 2: to go back and work on this. I want you

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Speaker 2: to make it right. Nobody is waiting for your album,

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Speaker 2: but once it's out, that's it, and you're not going

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Speaker 2: to have a second chance. And he would tell all

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Speaker 2: these young artists, you know, you know, nobody's waiting for her.

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Speaker 2: I'm just wait, wait, and and that was kind of

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Speaker 2: reverberating in my head, honestly, because I knew that and

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Speaker 2: I needed it. I needed it to be great. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I just look, you read my book. I'm competitive, and

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Speaker 2: I wanted you know what I wanted. This is going

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Speaker 2: to sound like an ego thing, but I wanted it

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Speaker 2: to be the best. I wanted to be the best

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Speaker 2: fucking book you could read about our times. And then

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Speaker 2: some guy named Bob lefts Sets actually wrote that like,

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Speaker 2: I was scared to death when you sent me there email,

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Speaker 2: because you're an opinionated fellow, so you know I was.

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Speaker 2: I was, I was frightened. And so then I clicked

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Speaker 2: on it and I read this line, this is the

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Speaker 2: best book about how it used to be and I

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Speaker 2: read that three times in a row and then I thought,

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Speaker 2: I'm done. I can retire now because it's you right,

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Speaker 2: It's like, it's do people know you?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: Do people actually know what a Bob Blust that says?

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Speaker 2: Do you think your listeners are all the people that

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Speaker 2: read the letter? Do they know who you are? Or not?

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Speaker 1: You know, they think they know who I am?

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Speaker 2: But they okay, okay, well, okay, just you know what, Bob,

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Speaker 2: You're no bullshit guy. I'm not going to play Kate.

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Speaker 2: I'm not smoking. I'm not I'm not going to blow

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Speaker 2: smoking up. He's just just for anybody who doesn't know. Okay,

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Speaker 2: there's the Left Sets Letter. Okay, it's this give and

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Speaker 2: take you know, online thing. If there wasn't a Left

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Speaker 2: Sets Letter when our industry went south, as we knew it,

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Speaker 2: none of us that we're in this giant family would

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Speaker 2: be communicating with each other. We'd be lost. We'd be

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Speaker 2: in the fucking desert. But there's a guy, Bob Blust

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Speaker 2: that's has this Left Sets Letter, and all of a

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Speaker 2: sudden we can talk to each other, and all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, the letter gets even bigger, and now it's

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Speaker 2: about politics. And now it's about all this stuff and

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Speaker 2: and and now there's a podcast. You know, I'm one

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Speaker 2: of your biggest fans, but it's not it's people need

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Speaker 2: to know, Like how do I say this? I mean,

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Speaker 2: just like how important you have been for the music industry,

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Speaker 2: you know, and just in general. You know, God knows

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Speaker 2: how many people read the Left That's letter now, And

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Speaker 2: I don't know if everybody listens to this podcast reads it,

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Speaker 2: but you should read it because there's no nonsense, there's

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Speaker 2: no bullshit. You say exactly what you want to say,

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Speaker 2: and you take a lot of heat sometimes, but it's glorious.

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Speaker 2: That's what you want. I don't I don't want people

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Speaker 2: pulling punches. Tell me how you feel. You know, you've

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Speaker 2: been able to make this yourself.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like certain artists have the ability to make any

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Speaker 2: album they want, and and and it's okay, and you've

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Speaker 2: made that for yourself, so you know, congratulations to you,

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Speaker 2: and people just know how fucking important you are. If

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Speaker 2: you don't mind my saying.

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Speaker 1: So, well, I'm smiling. This is audio only, I can't

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Speaker 1: you know. That's as good as it gets. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to respond. I will just say thank you,

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Speaker 1: continuing with the narrative, since you had to slim things down,

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Speaker 1: anything worth mentioning that was left on the cutting room floor.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if it's worth mentioning or not,

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Speaker 2: because you don't really know. In my special in my

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Speaker 2: special thanks, uh, I wrote this, I should actually get

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Speaker 2: this right. Hang on, give me a second here, crab

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Speaker 2: one of these things. I still don't believe I'm holding

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Speaker 2: this thing. Uh. There were three people that help me

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Speaker 2: in the beginning. So one of them was Bob Wilcox,

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Speaker 2: who's a you know, one of my colleagues marketing maven

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Speaker 2: from Columbia. He was like my first Slash and Burn editor,

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Speaker 2: if you will. So in my thanks to him, I said,

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Speaker 2: if you wish you could have read about my romantic

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Speaker 2: world when drug induced five days text marathon with a

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Speaker 2: renowned La rock DJ. Blame Bob, who ditched the entire

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Speaker 2: chapter rap nobody cares So.

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Speaker 1: I read that?

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Speaker 2: He said, So I ditched it?

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Speaker 1: Is that a true story?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I had a whole chapter, and he said, You've got

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Speaker 2: better things to talk about. Nobody cares about your you know,

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Speaker 2: five day sex marathon with the rock DJ. So I

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Speaker 2: ditched it so so I don't stop. First, wait a second,

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Speaker 2: but wait, wait, But the reason the only reason I

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Speaker 2: bring it up is because I was doing a podcast

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Speaker 2: with some guy who was in sense that it wasn't

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Speaker 2: in there. He goes, well, wait a minute, you can't

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Speaker 2: leave that out. I said, I'm the guy that wants

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Speaker 2: to know about that. And then I said, well, I

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Speaker 2: can't tell you about that because it's bribe. But you know,

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Speaker 2: so I don't know if anybody else gives a shit

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Speaker 2: about that. But but you know, look, you can't shoehorn

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Speaker 2: all the stories you want to tell in thirty plus

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Speaker 2: years of working for Columbia Records. You can't put it

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Speaker 2: all in a book. You got to pick and choose.

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Speaker 2: There's so much, so many more stories, and they're wonderful stories,

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Speaker 2: but you just you can't put them all in. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah, you know what, you want a good one.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you one that that that I wished I

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Speaker 2: would have put in. Okay, you know, I'll tell you

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Speaker 2: one that I wish I would have put in. I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty easy going guy. I mean, my whole way of

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Speaker 2: promotion is is just learning people, learning how they think,

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Speaker 2: you know, trying to to you know, make them understand,

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Speaker 2: you know, how open their minds to listening to to

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Speaker 2: new music, you know, and in a certain way. Like

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Speaker 2: you know, if you have somebody who's who loves the blues,

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Speaker 2: right and you want to get them to listen to

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Speaker 2: some music, you don't you just never send anybody like

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Speaker 2: a file or you know, play somebody a record, what

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Speaker 2: do you think, because that's you don't really want their opinion,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're trying to you want the opinion that

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Speaker 2: you're going to try to shape. So if there's you know,

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Speaker 2: somebody's into the blues or whatever, you might say, oh, look,

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Speaker 2: I've got this new artist. Chris Whitley's not right down

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Speaker 2: the pike rock. But this guy is the real deal.

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Speaker 2: This guy's playing resonator guitars. This guy is a real

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Speaker 2: job blues guy. No, So all of a sudden, you know,

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Speaker 2: this guy already knows you know that he's going to

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Speaker 2: maybe like this music. Or you are taking somebody to

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Speaker 2: see a band, or you're just being friends with people

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Speaker 2: and you're just you know, playing music for people. That's

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Speaker 2: that's the style of promotion, you know, person that I am.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes you have to wield a hammer. It's only

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Speaker 2: a couple of times in my career where I had

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Speaker 2: to get heavy, and one was during Springsteen's Nebraska record

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Speaker 2: because it was different and it was sparse. And I

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Speaker 2: remember specifically, excuse me, because I was taking three radio consultants,

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Speaker 2: three of the biggest radio consultants. One was in charge

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Speaker 2: of sixty stations, one was in charge of thirty, one

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Speaker 2: was in charge of twenty. I was taking them one

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Speaker 2: was a week. It was like three nights during a

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Speaker 2: week that I was taking them to Billy Joel's house

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Speaker 2: because I wanted to introduce them to Billy, because in

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Speaker 2: their minds they thought Billy was just this balladeer, lightweight guy.

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Speaker 2: And I got on, this guy's a rocker. You gotta

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Speaker 2: go see this guy's You need to meet this guy.

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Speaker 2: So Billy, Billy actually made dinner. He said, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to make dinner for these three guys. I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: that's nice of you. It was funny because Billy's part Jewish,

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Speaker 2: but Billy's all his bands are Italian. Billy likes to

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Speaker 2: think of himself as Italian, so he would tell me, rap,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna make a the pasta like Bill, come on,

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Speaker 2: But anyway. So he was me. So I figured, this

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Speaker 2: is great. I'm gonna put him in a limousine. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna take him to Lloyd Neck where you know, Lloyd's neckwork,

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Speaker 2: where where Bill used to live at a nice house.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's a long ride and we're in

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Speaker 2: a dark limousine. I'm going to play in Nebraska. There's like,

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Speaker 2: there's no better place you could play this music for someone.

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Speaker 2: And I played it for each of them and they

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Speaker 2: all said the same thing. As soon as soon they

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Speaker 2: heard it. They went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wa

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Speaker 2: wall wait a minute, wait a minute. You know, rap rap.

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Speaker 2: You know this is different. This is we're gonna have.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna have to like spoon feed this to our listeners.

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Speaker 2: You know this is not you know, this is not

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Speaker 2: born in the USA. This is not darkness. This is

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Speaker 2: something very different. And I and I and I and

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Speaker 2: I said the same thing to all three of them. Uh,

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Speaker 2: I said you, I said, you're kidding me, right, I mean, like,

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Speaker 2: at this point, Bruce Springsteen hasn't hasn't earned your respect

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Speaker 2: to give him the benefit of the doubt, Like, are

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Speaker 2: you kidding me? Uh? And they were like, well, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, oh it's it's very different and I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure about it, and I'm going to have to spoon

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Speaker 2: for this. And I said the same thing to all

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Speaker 2: three of them. I said, look, I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: make you put it in heavy rotation because I know

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Speaker 2: that's not real. I said, but you're going to give

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Speaker 2: this record a good shot, and you're going to let

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Speaker 2: the people decide. You're going to put this record in

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Speaker 2: medium rotation at least three times a day. And if

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Speaker 2: you don't, you're going to lose my phone number. And

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Speaker 2: that means if you lose my phone number, that means

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Speaker 2: you're using losing Bob Dylan's phone number, Big Floyd's phone number,

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Speaker 2: the wronging Stone's phone number, Elvis gos Stella, you name it,

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Speaker 2: because that's you know, I'm the guy. They need to

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Speaker 2: give them tickets and promotions and backstage meet and greets.

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Speaker 2: And all three of them said the same thing. They're

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Speaker 2: going rap. This isn't like you like, are you going

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Speaker 2: to hold me up? And I and I said, for

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Speaker 2: Bruce Brinstein, I will not for everybody, but for this guy.

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Speaker 2: Right now, in this guy's career, this guy's becoming the

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Speaker 2: Elvis Presley of our times. He's a exploding Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna hold you up for this guy. And they understood

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Speaker 2: it and they complied. And that's not in the book,

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Speaker 2: but it happened, and I didn't write that part of me.

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Speaker 2: I don't think in the book that heavy handed approach

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Speaker 2: to It's not I don't like it, uh, but uh,

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Speaker 2: you know that was a case where I had to

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Speaker 2: be different.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to herby her Sure Journey is an

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Speaker 1: offshoot of Santana. The first albums are I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say prog rock, but they're moving in that direction.

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Speaker 1: Greg Rawley is the lead singer, who was the original

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Speaker 1: lead singer in Santana. Then they get Steve Perry and

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Speaker 1: it turns into a juggernaut. Tell me from the inside side,

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Speaker 1: what was going on? To what degree was Herbie involved?

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Speaker 1: To what degree did you guys have to push to

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Speaker 1: make this? To what degree did you even think it

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Speaker 1: would be successful?

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Speaker 2: There would be no Journey without Herbie Herbert Herbie after

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Speaker 2: after the I think it was the Caravans or Eye album,

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Speaker 2: after that band broke up and Herbie was was on

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Speaker 2: tour as a as a as he was either the

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Speaker 2: road manager of Santana I believe he was at that time,

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Speaker 2: or he was way into that camp m m hm.

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Speaker 2: And he approached Neil and said, I want to build

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Speaker 2: a band around you. And Neil was like, okay. So

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Speaker 2: they got Greg Rawley, who you know from the original

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Speaker 2: Santana band, and they said, let's let's build a band.

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Speaker 2: And I'm trying to remember who the original players were.

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Speaker 2: I think I think Prairie Prince from the Tubes might

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Speaker 2: have been the original drummer. I think Rossvillong was the

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Speaker 2: original bass player. And he said, I want to build

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Speaker 2: a band around you. Now the original oh no, it

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Speaker 2: was prey print but no, it's no. When I met

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Speaker 2: up with him was Ainsley Dunbar. Ainsley was already the drummer.

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Speaker 2: But they, you know, and I would call them progressive.

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Speaker 2: They were progressed. I mean they were progressive rock, if

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Speaker 2: you want to call it that. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: long jams, and Roley was seeing the vocals like he

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Speaker 2: did for Santana, and we were doing okay. Uh And

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Speaker 2: I promoted both those records and we were doing okay,

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Speaker 2: but the label wasn't quite sure if they wanted to continue,

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Speaker 2: and Herbie told me this story over lunch before the

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Speaker 2: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Uh lunch when when

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Speaker 2: when uh? When Journey got inducted, and he said he

399
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Speaker 2: went to New York and he wanted to up the

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Speaker 2: uh they're contracting. They had two albums, they were getting

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Speaker 2: ready to do a third album and and he was

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Speaker 2: told they weren't sure they wanted to continue. They had

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Speaker 2: seen the band and they they I think it was

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Speaker 2: Bruce Lunvall at the time, was the president and a

405
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Speaker 2: guy named Armaanden who was the heead of marketing, and

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Speaker 2: they said something's missing and at the the and they

407
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Speaker 2: they wanted something more, and they suggested to Herbie then

408
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Speaker 2: maybe the band needed a frontman, a traditional front person,

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Speaker 2: traditional front man. And Herbie said, okay, well, let me

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Speaker 2: listen to what you're saying. And at the time, Arma

411
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Speaker 2: was working with a guy I got to come up

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Speaker 2: with his name, very good singer, you'd know him, and

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Speaker 2: his name escapes me at the moment, but they were

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Speaker 2: working with him, and Arma was working with him and suggested,

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Speaker 2: let's try this guy. And they did for a little

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Speaker 2: while and that didn't work out. Then they had another

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Speaker 2: guy and didn't work out, and somebody had given Herbie

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Speaker 2: a tape of Steve. Steve had been trying to make

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Speaker 2: it in the industry and he was having a hard time.

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Speaker 2: He just gave up, so he was he was working

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Speaker 2: on his I think it's I think it's a step dad.

422
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken. His dad had a turkey ranch and

423
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 2: Steve was literally shoving turkey shit like and the dad's ranch.

424
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: And Herbie heard this and he called and he and

425
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: Steve's mom was on the line, and he goes, I

426
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 2: really want to talk to your son, and she said, Nah,

427
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 2: he's done. He's his heart's broken, he's done. He's not

428
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 2: going to do this. Herbie had to beg his mom

429
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 2: to get Steve on the phone, you know. Finally Steve

430
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 2: gets on the phone and Herbie's like, I'm Herbie Herbert,

431
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 2: and you know I've heard your tape. I know you

432
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: had a rough time that just would you go with

433
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: me on this? Just come, you know, come out to

434
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: San Francisco wherever you wanted to come, He said, just,

435
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 2: you know, just just be with me, be with the

436
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: band for a little while. You know, you can come

437
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: as a guest, you can come to help on the road.

438
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 2: You can come as a sound man whatever you want

439
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: and just be part of this. I think there's something here.

440
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: I just just please, please please. And so Steve did,

441
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 2: and Steve went with the band on tour. And this

442
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 2: the one lead singer who wasn't was really not getting

443
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: along with Herbie. And as the story goes, and again,

444
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 2: this is a story told to me by Herbie. So

445
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: you know, in case anybody has any bones to pick this,

446
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: you know, Herbie told me the story. The singer that

447
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 2: they had was getting a big ego and it was

448
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: just driving Hervey crazy. And finally he just had it

449
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: and he told Pat Morow. You know, I don't know

450
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: if you ever meet Pat Morrow, Bubba, you ever meet

451
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: his famous road manager, said, Bubba got to take this

452
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 2: guy somewhere. I want him to miss soundcheck. He said,

453
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: I just just have him miss soundcheck. So Bubba said, fine,

454
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: so soundcheck comes, no lead singer. Herbie's you know, looking

455
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: at the band and goes, hey, well, you know, Steve

456
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: knows all the songs he's been he's been touring with us. Okay,

457
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 2: now here's a little backstory. I got to tell you this. Okay,

458
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: Bob left. That's exclusive so okay. Because Herbie liked the

459
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: tape so much, he'd sent the cassette to Neil, Sean's

460
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 2: wife at the time. And this is a beautiful story.

461
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 2: He said, Listen, don't play this for me. Ill just

462
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: put it on in the background. I just want him

463
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 2: to hear it in the background. Don't even tell him

464
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 2: who it is. Do not say this is a guy.

465
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 2: He just play it. She'd been playing this tape for

466
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: Neil's just in the house, right, okay, fast forward back

467
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: know the singer. Herbie talks to the band. He goes, look,

468
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: Steve's here. You know, he's been traveling with us. He

469
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 2: knows all the songs. Let him just do the soundcheck.

470
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 2: Perry gets up to the sound check. Okay, boss, everybody's mine.

471
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 2: Sean knows it's vaguely familiar. He doesn't know why. He

472
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 2: just know he loves it. He doesn't know why he

473
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 2: loves it, but it's already in his head. You know,

474
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: it's like McCartney writing yesterday, Like who wrote this? I

475
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: don't know? Well, somebody tell me who wrote this same thing?

476
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: So Sean likes it. They like it. Lead singer comes back.

477
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 2: Herbie says, a lot of explatives to him and says,

478
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: you're fired. And that's how Steve Ferry got into Journey.

479
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: And not.

480
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: Too long later they you know, I can't remember. I

481
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: think it was at the Old Water Off in San Francisco.

482
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 2: And shortly after that they come to La and Herbie

483
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 2: grabs me. He goes, you gotta see this new guy.

484
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: You gotta see this new guy. And he goes sitting

485
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: next to me, sitting next to me. So you know,

486
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: if you know Herbie, he's like amped twenty four to seven, right,

487
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: there's thirty seconds of the song. Steve maybe has sung

488
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 2: three notes. Herbie is a big guy, He's a big man. Right.

489
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: He shoves me off my seat. Boom rap rap. What

490
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: do you think? What do you think? What do you think?

491
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: Is Herbie give me a fucking second?

492
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: Man?

493
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,719
Speaker 2: They've only been playing for thirty seconds, right, But I

494
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 2: see it, you see it. It's just is it just is.

495
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 2: It's just one of those things is meant to happen, right,

496
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: it just is? And uh, you know, and and the

497
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: rest is history. It was the perfect voice for the

498
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 2: perfect band, and with Greg Rawley, who here's another one

499
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: that people don't know. Neil Sean used to play like

500
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 2: a thous notes a bar. That was this thing right,

501
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: And Greg Raley told him, he said, Neil, nobody cares

502
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 2: how many notes you can play in a bar in music?

503
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: Do you want to be remembered as a guitar player?

504
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: Play songs within songs, play melodies, playing notes that people

505
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: will remember, and then you're going to be meaningful. Okay,

506
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: this is Greg talking to Neil, and Neil listened to him.

507
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 2: And that's why you can sing all the Journey solos

508
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: right because Neil, you know, serves the song right that

509
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: this is this is you know, first of all, Neil

510
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: Sean is one of the greatest guitar players on the planet.

511
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: And a lot of people don't know what they should

512
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 2: but he's he's never leaves the mother ship or rarely,

513
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: but he has solo records. You know, if you want

514
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: to hear some great records, get Neil Sean solos. This

515
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: guy's an amazing guitar player. But you listen to Greg

516
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: and what do you get. You get you get people

517
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: that are are working for the same you know, they're

518
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: working for the same goal. So now everybody's working to

519
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 2: make great music, great records, great everything. You got the

520
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: best players, the best producers, and one of the best

521
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: managers in the business, Herbie Herbert, just you know, to

522
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: put it all together to make this and it was

523
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: it was. It was a marriage made in heaven. I mean,

524
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: I mean, these songs are in everybody's head. We're still

525
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: singing them. It's you know, it's it's you know. They

526
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: would consistently sell more catalog than anybody. It just is right.

527
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 2: It's like queen, It's like, come on.

528
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 1: They got the earlier prog rock records. The first record

529
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: was Steve Has Lights and Wheel in the Sky. Those

530
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: are hits. You go to radio, you know, you know

531
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: how radio is. They're looking for reasons not to play

532
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: a record. They say, we already know this act. How

533
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: did you close them?

534
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: Honestly, it was the music because I didn't. You know,

535
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: all you'd have to do is say, hey, it's it's

536
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: it's new, it's different, it's a new band. Just listened

537
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: to this. Mean that music is so good it's undeniable.

538
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: So there wasn't much selling there because they were familiar

539
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: with the band. And look, rock radio had played Journey.

540
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: It's not like they didn't play them, it's just that

541
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: they didn't have hits. You know, there's great music for

542
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: music people. If you're a music person, you go listen

543
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: to those first two Journey albums, right uh, and I

544
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: can't remember that the titles of some of the songs,

545
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: you know, you know, but it's great music. It just

546
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: didn't you know, it just they weren't hit records. It

547
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: wasn't going to resonate with the masses. But if you

548
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: you know, go to somebody and just say, hey, this'sten

549
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: a Wheel in the sky man, are you kidding? It's

550
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: like so, you know, that was easy peasy, and then

551
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: and and you know, and and and then you know,

552
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: after that is doing promotions and the things that you do.

553
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: You get people to meet the band, and you know,

554
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: you're you're on a different level. But it was the music.

555
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: The music was just the music being so good.

556
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: You write a certain amount about the first Boston album.

557
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: Tell us about first hearing that album and then ultimately

558
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: getting it on the radio.

559
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: Okay, well, ultimately getting it on the radio. You gonna

560
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: have to do a podcast with Jim mckeeon because it

561
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: was on Epic. He was he was in charge of that,

562
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: but we had ah, it's now a famous meeting at

563
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: Caribou Ranch with the first beginnings of the regional album

564
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: promotion teams. I had started as a local promotion man

565
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles in seventy one, I guess seventy seventy one,

566
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: and I was promoting all formats. But FM radio was building,

567
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: and as it built, the record label understood they were

568
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: going to need people that were just going to be,

569
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: you know, experts at promoting rock radio. You know, this

570
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: was going to be a specialty. So I got the

571
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: nod to try it, to be an experiment. So I

572
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 2: believe I was the first FM promotion man in the

573
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: country that solely promoted that format. So literally, I don't

574
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: even know if it was. A year went by and

575
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: they went, oh my god, we need more of these people.

576
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 2: So we need a regional you know people. We needed

577
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: somebody in the East coast, somebody you know, and it

578
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: grew exponentially, but it began with me on the West coast,

579
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: somebody on the East coast ahead of album promotion. Mike

580
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: Plott and Epic had the same thing. McKeon was working

581
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: at k West Radio. He had started k West in

582
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: LA and he was going toe to toe with k MET.

583
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: He had made such a great rock station. Anyway, the

584
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: owners were starting to give him trouble and he didn't

585
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: want his art messed with. So I asked him if

586
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: he wanted to join the Dark Side because I thought

587
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: he'd be a great record guy. And he did, and

588
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: it turned out he was. So he became my epic counterpart. Okay,

589
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: so now we're in La working together. So we shared

590
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: an office. Actually, I have a great story to tell

591
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: you about that too. Anyway, so we shared an office

592
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 2: and so we go to the Cariboo Meetings, which is

593
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: a ranch up in Colorado where James William Gercio had

594
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: built a recording studio with the money he'd made from

595
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: producing Chicago. And everybody recorded there because there were no unions,

596
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: you didn't have to worry about shutting down at a

597
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: certain time. You could work twenty four to seven. The

598
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: studio was state of the art and it's beautiful up

599
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: in Colorado. Meetre up up in the mountains and everything

600
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: and everybody, I mean, you know, Michael Jackson recorded there,

601
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: Joe wallaceh Edgar Winner, I mean, everybody. So we went

602
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: up there to have meetings and you know, look, meetings

603
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: were fun, you know, in those days. What are you

604
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: going to do. You're going to listen to music, talk

605
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 2: about music, and then you're going to talk about how

606
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: you're going to go out and shout about it. That's

607
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 2: what promotion people do, right. I love this music. I

608
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: need the world to know about it. Get ready, world,

609
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:00,959
Speaker 2: because this is coming at Okay. That's what we do.

610
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: And then we have to get through the gatekeepers, which

611
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: are the radio people and the press people of you know,

612
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: we need to get the music to the public because

613
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 2: the public has to decide. Right. A lot of people think, oh,

614
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 2: the record business decides everything. We have priorities, we think

615
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: we know some stuff. But your job as a promotion

616
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: person is get the music on the air and let

617
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: the people decide if they like it. And if they

618
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: like it, then your job is to put the pedal

619
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: to the metal and go make it happen. And I

620
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: don't you know, you read my book. I don't hear everything.

621
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: None of us hear everything. But your job is to

622
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: make that happen and then we'll all know. And if

623
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: listeners respond, great, that's the one and they're you know,

624
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: a handful of bands that I thought we're going to

625
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: go all the way and Bob, I don't know why

626
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: it didn't happen, just couldn't, just didn't resonate, you know,

627
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: So I don't know. But anyway, so we're so we're

628
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: at this famous meeting and we're having a lot of fun.

629
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we're a bunch of hippies, were

630
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: smoking dope. But you know, I mean, it's you know,

631
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: in Colorado. What could be better? So we're all playing

632
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: music because the idea was, Okay, whether you were Epic

633
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: or Columbia, the idea was, let's all get together and

634
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 2: play music for each other, and we'll cross pollinate because

635
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: we all were creative people, we'll have different ideas on

636
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: how to get this music done right. So, you know,

637
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 2: Colombia's playing Columbia stuff, and this guy Mike Shavelson, who

638
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: was the head of a promotion for Epic, was playing

639
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: his stuff. So he plays us a band called Mother's

640
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: Finest Great Band out out of Atlanta, Georgia. I don't

641
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: know if it was Atlanta, was Georgia. And he goes, yeah,

642
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: and I got this new thing called Boston puts it on,

643
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: plays more than a feeling. Okay, A lot of us

644
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: in the music business heavy ears like like we know shit, right, Like,

645
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 2: you know, we here, Okay, he plays more than a feeling.

646
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: We're like stunned. We're like, we're like what why are

647
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: these guys? Like, we'll play it again. So he plays

648
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: it again, right, and we're like, holy fuck. So because

649
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: he has to toe the line, right, he's you know,

650
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 2: there's got to be priorities going, oh, don't get excited,

651
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 2: don't get excited. You know, you know, the priority is

652
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: mother's finest. You know, they're blowing people off the stage.

653
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: The priorities mother's finest, you know, So let's not get

654
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 2: too excited. So like I'm sitting next to McKeon, right, Well,

655
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: look at that Harvey Lee's was there, you know Harvey, Right,

656
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 2: So Harvey's there, Harvey's at this meeting, right, you know,

657
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 2: there's a whole there's a bunch of paragraphs just about

658
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 2: Harvey Lea's in my book because people have to know

659
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: these characters, like they got to know these people existed.

660
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 2: So so Harvey's there, he's smiling near to ear And

661
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: now I can't get in trouble because I'm the Columbia guy, right,

662
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 2: So I raised my hand, right, Mike, with all due respect, Okay,

663
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 2: and I and I'm aware of Mother's finest and I

664
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: and I know they're blowing people off the stage, Mike,

665
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 2: I said, but really, Mike, we've just heard one of

666
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: the greatest things we've ever heard ever. Okay, somebody has

667
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: reshuffled the deck of riffs, guitar, riffs, and vocals to

668
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: make this thing and we haven't even heard another track.

669
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 2: We only heard one track. I said, when this thing

670
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: gets played for radio people, Okay, Mike, it's it's going

671
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: to be a forest fire. It's gonna explode, and overnight,

672
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: your priority is going to change. Right, It's just gonna happen. Right,

673
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,959
Speaker 2: It's gonna go bonkers. So you can decide now whether

674
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: you wanted to make the number one priority or not.

675
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: But I am just telling you, as a guy that

676
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: does this for a living, watch the fuck out because

677
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: this thing's gonna go nuts.

678
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: Right.

679
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: Uh So, you know, he said, I got it, I

680
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: get it, I get it. He's just you know, look,

681
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: he's doing his job, right, which is what, you know,

682
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 2: what a guy has to do. And who knows, you know,

683
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 2: I'd like to think he knew in himself. I don't know,

684
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: but you know, it's great so me and Mac go

685
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: back to La Right, so he's with his music director. Well,

686
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 2: his former music director is David Perry is still on

687
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 2: K West, right, got, he's got an apartment on Larrabie.

688
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: It's great, is the music director. Okay, this is how

689
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: it used to be. Right, guy's got a small apartment.

690
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: In the apartment are two giant JBL's, giant fucking jbls. Right,

691
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 2: so you know, it overtakes the apartment. But that's how

692
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: things were then, right. So we go, hey, we want

693
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: you to listen to something. Sit down in a chair. Right.

694
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: If there was ever a record made for JBL speakers,

695
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: it's Boston. Okay, it's the perfect fucking record. We put

696
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 2: on more than a feeling. We crank it to fucking ten.

697
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 2: His hair blows back like in the Maxell commercial. Right,

698
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: his brain explodes. He's like, what the fuck is this?

699
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 2: When can I play this? Who is this? He's out

700
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: of his fucking mind, right, So, and we tell him

701
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: who it is, and we tell him, you know, he

702
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: can play it tomorrow whenever the fuck it was, you know.

703
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 2: And and that's what happened, I mean overnight, you know,

704
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: fucking pow, you know, and then it just went on

705
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: from there. You know, Bob listened to Boston. You tell

706
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 2: me what's better the guitar, of the vocals, the Brad

707
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: Delt Come on, I don't even know. It's the fucking Boston.

708
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 2: You know, it's the fucking hit machine. It's rock, it's

709
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: it's it's messages. I mean, you know, it's piece of

710
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: bond me and it's everything you know, you know, the

711
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: people living in competition. All I want is peace of mind.

712
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 2: What the fuck? I mean, it's everything you'd ever want.

713
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: You know, let's go back.

714
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: What happens when there's a priority and you don't believe

715
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: in the record.

716
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 2: You promote it. I learned a lesson a long time ago,

717
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 2: which I wrote in my book. A famous record guy

718
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: Steve Popovich, beautiful human being, one of the greatest promotion

719
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: men that ever lived, and he and I were talking

720
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: my nine. He said, Steve, you know all the records

721
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: that we put out, they're all not great. You know,

722
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 2: we're lucky, we're Columbia. Most of our stuff is really good,

723
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: but sometimes there's like not how do you handle that, Steve? Like,

724
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 2: how do you I have to have credibility, I have

725
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: to go to these radio people, they have to you know,

726
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: they believe in me. I have to have credibility. And

727
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 2: he said, you know what he said, rap, he said,

728
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 2: You'll always find one thing. It might not be the song.

729
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 2: It might be the production, or it might be the vocal,

730
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: or it might be the song. There'll always be one

731
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 2: good thing. Just talk about that, just you know, just

732
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 2: go in and say, hey, look, you got the other

733
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: production on this. You don't have to lie. You don't

734
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: have to. You can't because no one's going to believe you.

735
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 2: Said you need your credibility, he said, just talk about

736
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: about one thing. Sometimes it was what we would call

737
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: a fire drill, and I'll never forget one of them. Okay, okay,

738
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 2: this is a good example. Steve O'Rourke, who is a

739
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: good friend of mine, managed Pink Floyd, great manager and

740
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of the band, but he

741
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: decided he was going to try something else and the

742
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: record was terrible and uh but we knew with Steve's

743
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: uh and uh, so I wanted to do it for him,

744
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 2: and and the and the and the big priority came down.

745
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 2: It's like, you're gonna do this, and it's okay, we

746
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 2: know how to do it. So what you do You

747
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 2: go to all your friends or rock radio and go

748
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 2: da da. You know this is important for us. I'm

749
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 2: not sure I hear it. Do me a favor, have

750
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: your night, guys, just spin it once or twice, like,

751
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: don't don't even have to add the record, just just

752
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 2: just put it on the edge it just so we know.

753
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: I need to know because we don't know everything and

754
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 2: maybe I'm wrong and who knows. So was a fire drill, right,

755
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: that's what we called it. And you'd go out to

756
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: your friends because they were This is a family. We

757
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 2: work together, you know, even though it's always this uh

758
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 2: thing about the you know, the radio people and and

759
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 2: you know and and you know and the record people,

760
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: and we're trying to get our music played and they're

761
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 2: trying to tell us why they don't want to play it,

762
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 2: and there's this give and take. But but there is, uh,

763
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: there's a relationship there in this beautiful relationship. Uh. And

764
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 2: and people help each other, you know, someone does me

765
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: a turn, and it's like, hey, listen, man, I really

766
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 2: appreciate the times when you were there for me when

767
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: I needed you. So you know, I'm gonna go borrow

768
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 2: the Pink Floyd Pink from Pink Floyd and I'm gonna

769
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: fight over your radio station. I'm gonna put two Kleig

770
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: lights on it and paint your radio station pink. And

771
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: it's going to stop traffic, you know, in front of

772
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 2: your radio station as a thank you for that. That's

773
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: the kind of relationship it was. So that's how you

774
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: did it. So you so, because we need to know.

775
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: I can't know everything. You read my book, I'd love herboy.

776
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: I didn't get it right away. She didn't get it.

777
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: I don't know why. It's a great record. I put

778
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: it on, you know, I sent it out. I did

779
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 2: what I was supposed to do, and lo and behold.

780
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 2: You know Gloria Johnson from you know cagu And in Portland.

781
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: Great just jockey calls me up. So did you have

782
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,479
Speaker 2: a hit on your hands? You know with turn Me Loose?

783
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 2: You don't hear them all, but you need as a professional,

784
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: it's your job to let the people decide, and that's

785
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: what you do. One of my favorite stories is is

786
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: it a great promotion? Man in New York guy named

787
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: Maddie Matthews. Did you hear about Maddie Matthews? Maddie Matthews.

788
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 2: You know, it is completely out of his mind in

789
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: the best of ways. Maddy Matthews had his own glossary. Okay,

790
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: if you wanted to talk to Mattie, you had to

791
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 2: understand how he was speaking, because it was you know,

792
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: all these people, they had nicknames. You know. It was

793
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: in Jiva, in Jinkeda, you know the people. You know,

794
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 2: the weather's on a wing. I mean it was. It's

795
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: a complete glossary. And everybody loved him. This guy was

796
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 2: all the time New York guy. Uh and uh. He

797
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 2: had an incredible, incredible relationship with Richard Near at w

798
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: W and he and this is a famous story in

799
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 2: New York. And he brought this record into Richard and

800
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 2: this you don't talk about the give and take relationship

801
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: between you know, you know, record people and radio people.

802
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 2: Gives the record Richard and he goes to leave, and

803
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: Richard looks at him like Maddie, and he looks at

804
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: he says, Maddie, are you kidding me? And Maddie turns

805
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: around and looked at Richard and said you'll find something.

806
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: And then he left. And that's all that Maddie had

807
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: to say. Because Richard Near loved Maddie Matthews so much.

808
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: We all did. Right that he knew that it was

809
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 2: a fire drill, and he knew that Maddie needed it. Otherwise,

810
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: you know, he's going to get shipped from his bosses.

811
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: And so he took care of Maddie. And you know

812
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: a couple of nights, you know, somebody's going to tune

813
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: out at ten o'clock at night. No, So that's you know,

814
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 2: that's how you do.

815
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: It, okay, Unlike today, in the pre internet era, they

816
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: used to shuffle the decade record companies on a regular basis.

817
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: They get a new president, he would wipe out all

818
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,479
Speaker 1: the old people because you wanted loyalists, et cetera. How

819
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,240
Speaker 1: did you maintain your job so long?

820
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 2: Because I'm malleable, you know, I'm I surprised myself because

821
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 2: I'm a sensitive person. I mean, I took a lot

822
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 2: of heat sometimes because I would I was a rebel.

823
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 2: That's speak my mind. I would do it different the

824
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: next time. You know. It's like, you have to learn

825
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 2: how to work the president.

826
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: Right.

827
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: There's an art form to it. It's called managing upwards.

828
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,959
Speaker 2: You know, I finally learned it. I wish I would

829
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: have learned it earlier, you know, But I think I'm

830
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 2: pretty I'm pretty malleable, and and my only agenda. A

831
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 2: lot of people have agendas in our business. A lot

832
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: of people are trying to get a heah, a lot

833
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: of people trying to do this, trying to do that.

834
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 2: My only agenda ever was just the music. I just

835
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 2: loved the music so much that my agenda was just that.

836
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: And they saw, even if they just agreed with me,

837
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 2: or if I pissed them off, they saw my work ethic.

838
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: They watched me do what I could do. I got

839
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 2: big compliments from record company presidents, even the ones that

840
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 2: I was, you know that would be upset with me

841
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:21,760
Speaker 2: from time to time because they saw my work ethic.

842
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: It's one hundred and ten percent, it's tenacious, don't stop.

843
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: They saw my creativity. I think I had a different

844
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: vision honestly than a lot of my peers. The way

845
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 2: I approached things, the way I approached artists, the way

846
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: I approached music, the way I approached promotion. And then

847
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 2: there's little tricks. I had a president, I had my

848
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: boss at one time was having a problem with album Network,

849
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 2: which is a tip sheet in town of local tip

850
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: sheet nice people. Steve Smith telt me to ask and asked,

851
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: you know, they're nice folks. For some reason, you had

852
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 2: a bug I was asked with them or whatever. He said, Okay,

853
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: we're going to do a power play. I go, what's that?

854
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: He goes, you don't call them, you don't talk to them,

855
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: and they're going to wonder where you are? Got it?

856
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 2: And I said yeah. I don't want to say his name,

857
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: so I don't want embarrass him. I said yeah, but

858
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 2: I said, with they're friends of mine, they're gonna They're

859
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 2: not gonna it's gonna be weird like they don't They're not.

860
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: It's not gonna work, right. He goes, He goes, you

861
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 2: work for me, and I'm telling you this is what

862
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: you're going to do. I said, okay. Uh So the

863
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 2: first thing I do is I call Steve Smith from

864
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 2: the Album Network and I say, Steve, it's rap. I'm

865
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: not going to call you for a while because my

866
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 2: boss just told me blah blah blah. I don't know

867
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 2: what's going on with you two guys, but I need

868
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: you to know that I'm not going to be calling

869
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 2: for a while because I've been told not to. And

870
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: then you know, whenever you want, you'll call me and go, gee, rap,

871
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: what's up. I haven't heard from you, And then you

872
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 2: guys make up and they'll all get better. Right, I

873
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: would get calls, you know, you have to be a

874
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: good soldier, but you have to you have to work

875
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: in between the lines, like I would get calls at

876
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: home from the Rolling Stones. Right, they're telling us all

877
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 2: this shit, like okay, listen, listen, listen, listen. Just they're

878
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: just telling you this stuff because they're telling you this

879
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: stuff because listen to me. Okay, they're going to tell

880
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 2: you this. It doesn't mean anything. Okay, you say this,

881
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 2: this and this, and then you'll get what you want

882
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 2: and it'll all be fine. And so you Sometimes I'm

883
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: a good soldier, but i'm you know, it's it's like,

884
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 2: what do they call it, back politicsne yeah, back channeling.

885
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 2: So I'm I'm working for everybody. I'm working for the artist,

886
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 2: I'm working for the manager, I'm working for the label.

887
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 2: But I need to make sure it all comes together,

888
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: like I'm in charge of making sure everyone understands each other.

889
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, if someone tells you

890
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: to do something, you I mean and you know you

891
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: want to keep your job. Yeah, I mean you have

892
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: to do it. But there's like so I explained, there's

893
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 2: one way that you can do that, but I some

894
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 2: people couldn't handle the heat. Some people left, certain presidents,

895
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 2: people are people that you know, big time record business is.

896
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 2: I'm not staying. I can't take this. I'm out of here,

897
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: and I'm more resilient I think than I knew. I

898
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: have mental scars because of it.

899
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: Honestly, Okay, two things people who are not in this world.

900
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: And it was a different era in the pre Spotify era,

901
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: the radio promotion people had so much pressure to deliver

902
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: on Tuesday. What was it like living with that pressure?

903
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 2: Difficult? If you're you know, I mean, if you have

904
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 2: any feelings at all, things have to happen. It's a

905
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: timely business. Not only do records have to get added

906
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 2: in a timely way. If you're working rock promotion like me,

907
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: you could be working eight or ten albums at a time.

908
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 2: They all have to go up the charts. That all

909
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 2: depends on airplay. How many new additions that you get

910
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: each week at each station? How many upward movements do

911
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 2: you get? You're in charge of these people's careers, Okay,

912
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 2: that's you. And you have to make sure that this

913
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 2: music stays on the air and goes up the charts,

914
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 2: and that in any given week you need x amount

915
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 2: of new stations, you know, adding a record, and there's

916
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 2: lots of unknowns, and at most promotion people will tell

917
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 2: you if they're telling you of the truth, have a

918
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: lot of Sunday night, sleepless nights, because Monday's is your

919
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: last day to get done what you need to do,

920
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: get done, you know, whether you're prepared or not. And

921
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 2: it's like taking the hill. I mean, it's like the Marines.

922
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 2: I mean, at Columbia Records, there's no number two. There's

923
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: only number one. Okay, just tell me how you get

924
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: into number one because number two isn't good enough here. Okay.

925
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 2: I never told anybody this, well, I have told some people.

926
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 2: I didn't write it in my book because I didn't

927
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 2: want to dwell on this part of it. I just

928
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 2: wanted to celebrate the shit that nobody will believe. I mean,

929
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 2: for a good easily eight years after I left Columbia,

930
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 2: I could wake up in the middle of the night

931
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: with a nightmare, like freaked out of my mind that

932
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: I wasn't prepared, or I just wasn't Eddie, or you know,

933
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 2: a record I needed to go to one wasn't getting there,

934
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 2: and I'd have nightmares. If you want to know honestly,

935
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 2: how the pressure was I withstood it. I didn't. Some

936
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: some people turned to alcohol and other things. I didn't.

937
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 2: Thankfully lucky to have a good life's partner, my wife Sharon.

938
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 2: I could talk things out too what you read about

939
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 2: in the book. But but but you know the man

940
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: you're talking about. You're in charge of the Rolling Stones,

941
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Pink Floyd and on and on

942
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: and on. It's a lot of pressure.

943
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: What would you say? You know? Sposes have different styles

944
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: summer screamers, some are not, but you can't always deliver

945
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: what they want. What would you say? And how would

946
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: it play out?

947
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 2: It would play out different in different ways. I'll tell

948
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 2: you a funny one. Then I'll tell you a heavy one,

949
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 2: which I did not write in my book because I

950
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 2: just didn't want to go there. Probably shouldn't even go

951
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 2: there on a podcast. But it's you, so so if

952
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 2: you here's gonna if you work for Donnie einor Okay,

953
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 2: here's how it works. Got into a record. Okay, I

954
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 2: know that you know exactly what you're doing. Okay, you're

955
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 2: the Babe Ruth of rock promotion. Man, you're my guy.

956
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: I know that you know how to do this, But

957
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 2: if I were you, I would do it this way.

958
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: Meaning there's two ways to promote a record. You can

959
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 2: get everybody on board and blow it out, or you

960
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 2: can build a record little by little by little with credibility. Right,

961
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 2: you can blow it out if you've got the goods,

962
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 2: especially you know, you know, obviously a band that's already established.

963
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 2: You can try to get everybody in one week. But

964
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: it's a mistake if you do that trying to build something,

965
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 2: because say you get sixty stations the first week, and

966
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 2: the next week people are still trying to figure outf

967
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 2: they want it, and now you've only got five and

968
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 2: then the next week you only got five more and

969
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: it doesn't look good, right, you don't want to do

970
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 2: it that way, So and I'll you know, And so

971
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 2: if you work for Donnie as it looks like that.

972
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: If you do it your way because you know how

973
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 2: to do it, and you get the record top five, right,

974
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 2: top five, number three, whatever, but it doesn't go to

975
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 2: number one, Donnie will call you into the office and go, see,

976
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 2: I told you should have done it my way. Now

977
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 2: if you do it Donnie's way. And this is true story, guys.

978
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 2: I had a record that you know, I don't need

979
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 2: to say the name of the band. And it stops

980
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 2: at twenty two. Donnie will call you in news office

981
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: and go, s rap, how did you fuck this thing?

982
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 2: And you can't tell him I did it your way, right,

983
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: you know, it's like you can't you can't win. But

984
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 2: I will tell you. I'll tell you one very heavy

985
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 2: story and it's and it's also a Don Einer story.

986
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 2: And you don't need to know the president's name. But

987
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,879
Speaker 2: I became known. I wanted to be the best, Okay.

988
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,720
Speaker 2: I wanted to be the Michael Jordan of rock promotion.

989
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 2: You know, I need it to be. That's just that's

990
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 2: how I am. I just wanted to be it, and

991
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 2: I tried to be it. And as you read in

992
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 2: the book, there's a lot of things I do that

993
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 2: no one ever did because I wanted to make headlines.

994
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 2: I wanted, I wanted that's just me. I just you know,

995
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's an ego thing or probably think.

996
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: Whatever it is, it's just how I am. So So

997
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 2: I was known in the business as this guy. I

998
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 2: was known by managers and my peers and uh, you know,

999
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 2: I got voted that once by my peers. It was

1000
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 2: very heartwarming. This but this particular president and I were

1001
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 2: just it was like oil and water. And I did

1002
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 2: not quite understand how to just just manage upwards with

1003
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 2: this particular guy. And I was doing great things that

1004
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: he was more of a numbers guys, not a music guy.

1005
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 2: And he was signing a lot of acts that just

1006
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 2: you know, you could put him on rock radio, but

1007
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 2: they just they wouldn't stay. It's they're not they're not

1008
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 2: made for you, you know. And he signed some acts

1009
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 2: that he thought were cool and they were just posers

1010
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 2: and whatnot. But you know, for the acts that were working,

1011
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 2: it was fantastic. So, but I would be in meetings

1012
00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 2: with him and I'd say the wrong thing because I

1013
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 2: you know, I was as a rebel and I didn't

1014
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 2: know there were two truths. Okay, there's the real truth,

1015
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: because he'd always say, no, tell me the truth. I

1016
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 2: want to know the truth. What I finally learned was

1017
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 2: there's two truths. There's the real truth and the truth

1018
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: that he'd like to hear. There's a way of telling

1019
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 2: a truth. But you can be artful, and you know, well,

1020
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 2: at that time, I wasn't artful, so I would just

1021
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,800
Speaker 2: tell him the truth and it could be painful. Sometimes

1022
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: he didn't want to hear the truth, so then he

1023
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: would explode and then you know, I could feel this

1024
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: pressure and you know, you don't give me a hard time.

1025
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 2: So one day things weren't kind of going his way

1026
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 2: and he goes, come here. He goes, I need to

1027
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 2: talk to you in the head of promotion, and I'm

1028
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 2: not going to mention names because it doesn't move the

1029
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: story forward. It's just I don't need to embarrass people's families.

1030
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 2: Head of promotion walks in, Just me down, he goes, listen.

1031
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 2: He goes, I just want you know some of these

1032
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 2: records aren't happening, and I just I want you to

1033
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 2: know something. And he also used the babe ruth analogy. Okay,

1034
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 2: I know you're the bab ruth of rock promotion. You know,

1035
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 2: I know that you're the greatest blah blah blah. He said, well,

1036
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 2: you know what, rap, sometimes the greats have to be traded, like,

1037
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 2: Babe Ruth, they had a trade, Babe Ruth, I didn't

1038
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: want you to think about that. And I'd had it

1039
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 2: with this guy, right, And I'm telling you, Bob, I'm not.

1040
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not. If I get well, if I

1041
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 2: get mad, you don't want to see it. I mean,

1042
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 2: but it takes a lot right to get me excited.

1043
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 2: And I finally had it with this guy and I

1044
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 2: just exploded in his fucking face. It's just me and

1045
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: him and had a promotion sitting across the table, and

1046
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 2: I'm like, what the fuck you like, are you fucking

1047
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 2: kidding me? I go, I do this and I do that,

1048
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 2: and okay, so you signed this partner's effront. Could it

1049
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 2: be the fucking records? Is it possible? It could be

1050
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: the fucking record? And I'm screaming at him. I mean like,

1051
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: I'm in his face. Right, I'm done, I'm gonna quit.

1052
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,439
Speaker 2: I don't care. I had it, Okay, nobody's ever seen

1053
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 2: the head of motion was freaking out. He was. I'm

1054
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 2: looking at him. He's turning green purple. He's like he's

1055
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 2: never seen anything like it. And I'm in this guy's face,

1056
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck you you have no fucking idea. Is

1057
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 2: it possible? Is it possible? And and it's more animated

1058
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: than I'm telling you now. I don't want to get

1059
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 2: there because it's it's it's you would think you would

1060
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: put me in a rubber room. Okay, I've exploded at

1061
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 2: this guy. It's insane. Okay. And the guy I just

1062
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 2: had it and he looks at me, he goes, oh, whoa,

1063
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 2: come down. I think he thought I was gonna have

1064
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 2: a heart attack. I was that that was that fucking

1065
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 2: nuts and he and and he said, who whoa whoa

1066
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 2: whoa wrap rap rap whoa whoa whoa whoa. Just hang on.

1067
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 2: I got to think about what you're saying. Just just

1068
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 2: hang on, like I gotta think about what you're saying.

1069
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 2: And he and he and he looked at me, wrap,

1070
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 2: please just take it easy and let me think about

1071
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 2: what you're saying. He left, and the head of promotion said,

1072
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 2: I want to shake your hand, and I go why

1073
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 2: And he says, because I never seen anybody go at

1074
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,959
Speaker 2: that guy like that, and I've never seen that guy

1075
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 2: back down. So he said, I want to shake your hand,

1076
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: and I was like, fuck shaking my hand. I'm out

1077
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 2: of here. Fuck you, fuck him. I quit. He's chasing

1078
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 2: me down holiday. You can't quit rap, listen to me,

1079
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 2: he goes, you can't quit. He goes, it's three o'clock.

1080
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: Go home. Trust me, there's what you need to do.

1081
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 2: Go home, talk to Sharon, have a drink, report back

1082
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 2: the next thing in the morning. And this guy was

1083
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 2: a really good guy. Wasn't the great promotion met of

1084
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 2: all time? And he said, look, just just just do

1085
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 2: me a favor, like calm down, go home. And he

1086
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 2: was right. I went home, talked to Sharon, had a drink,

1087
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 2: came back and it was fine, and the president was

1088
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 2: better towards me. And in a million years, I never

1089
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: thought I'd go off at anybody like that, especially a

1090
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 2: record company president. So he could get to I mean,

1091
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: so if you asked me, did it ever get to me? Okay,

1092
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: that's the that's the one time where you know, God,

1093
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 2: he could get to you in a different way it

1094
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 2: would frustrate you. But I but I never was that

1095
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 2: so upset. Was like I've had it, you know, and

1096
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, like you said, how did

1097
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 2: I survive? I don't know, By the grace of God,

1098
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 2: because that guy could have left right away and wrote

1099
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 2: me off. You could have. He could have. He could

1100
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 2: have went back and said, you know what, just just

1101
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 2: give wrap his papers. But he didn't. And I think

1102
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 2: he didn't because he knew I was a winner. And

1103
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 2: here's something else. My wife asked me, why do you

1104
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 2: want to stay there? And I said, because even though

1105
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 2: this guy is breaking my balls daily, he is a winner,

1106
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 2: and I have to be with a winner and I

1107
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 2: and that's why I didn't leave. I said, I'll take it,

1108
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 2: I'll take the heat. I'll have this leapless night. I

1109
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 2: need to be with a winner. I would tell her, Sharon,

1110
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 2: he's that, So I'm going to stay, and I didn't.

1111
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 2: He left, you know, so not gone to the next president.

1112
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: Okay, you were going to quit at that time? Were

1113
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: you fearful? Oh?

1114
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 2: Not really. I was just sorry.

1115
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: I'm going in the opposite direction. Were you ever fearful

1116
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: you were going to get fired?

1117
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 3: No?

1118
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 2: No, not really.

1119
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: Okay, then let me give it one other thing. You

1120
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: literally start, as you say at the beginning of rock promotion, seventies,

1121
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: great era you have, you know, CBS records crashes seventy

1122
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: nine eighty. But let's move past that. MTV comes along.

1123
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 2: Seventy nine. Herbie Herbert came into my office. Okay, you're

1124
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 2: gonna love this. He was bummed out because Journey had

1125
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 2: only sold two million records. He was trestphoning. I was not, Herbie,

1126
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: you know how fucking lucky you are? You so too million.

1127
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:54,439
Speaker 2: But we still formally and I go, I know we're

1128
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 2: in trouble. It's gonna pass. It's a fucking phase. Herbie

1129
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 2: Herbert's upset because he's to only so too much.

1130
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: I just remember Breakfast in America was number one for

1131
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: some amazing number of weeks and sold like less than

1132
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: fifty percent of what records normally had. But we get

1133
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: to the MTV era, and concomminantly with the MTV era,

1134
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 1: we have the CD. The CD they tell all the

1135
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: acts take a half rate. I know the people who

1136
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: ran those labels they made not only did the labels

1137
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: make so much money, the executives you know, I know,

1138
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: they're friends of mine. I know be personal stories. So

1139
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: my question is, as this is going on, and once

1140
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: you hit the eighties and especially the nineties, promotion people

1141
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: everybody at the record company has a lawyer. To what

1142
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 1: degree did you negotiate your salary and what were those

1143
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: experiences like.

1144
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I had an attorney and he saw

1145
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 2: what I did for the label and he was This

1146
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 2: guy is known's Gary B. Baker. He was very amped guy.

1147
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 2: When I first met him. He said, look, there's two

1148
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 2: kinds of lawyers. There's nice lawyers and there's really, you know,

1149
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 2: rough and tough lawyers. You got to decide which one

1150
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 2: you want. Him the rough and tough lawyer. I said, well,

1151
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 2: I'll just moved to New York. Gary, I think I'm

1152
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 2: going to take the rough and tough lawyer. The guy

1153
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 2: was amazing. He beat the Bank of New York for

1154
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 2: sharing in me. I mean, the guy beat the Bank

1155
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 2: of New York on the situation we had. So so

1156
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 2: he would negotiate for me, and it got so amped

1157
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 2: that the people in business affairs would call me and

1158
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 2: they say, look, rap, we got the message. You got

1159
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 2: to ask Gary to back off, you know, just because

1160
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 2: he knew what I did and he wanted me to

1161
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: make more money. He said, rather, they're not paying you

1162
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 2: what you're what you're you know what you deserve that

1163
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 2: I know what you do, I see what you're doing.

1164
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 2: You know for all these acts you know, and I said, Gary, great,

1165
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 2: you know, And then what would happen is then you'd

1166
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 2: walk in and then you would see Donnie okay, you know,

1167
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 2: and Donnie would and Donnie would say, look, Rap, it's

1168
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: a corporation. It's a it's a it's you know, it's

1169
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 2: a grid. You're not the head of promotion. You're ahead

1170
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 2: of rock promotion, you know, which is even one step

1171
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 2: down from the head of top forty promotion. Because, as

1172
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 2: you know, most of the music, most of the money

1173
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 2: is made with you know, big hit records. Even though

1174
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 2: we're making a shitload of money on rock radio. I

1175
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 2: can't give you what Gary is asking. I can't, but

1176
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,919
Speaker 2: I'll give you this. If I give you this, will

1177
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 2: you be okay? Or are we going to have a problem?

1178
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 2: And then I'd look at at you know, you know,

1179
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 2: at Donnie, and I'd say, Donnie, thanks very much. That'd

1180
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 2: be great. I appreciate it, thanks, and we don't have

1181
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 2: a problem. I was always about longevity when I would

1182
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 2: be asked every once in a while to leave, you know,

1183
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 2: for another company or some new company that wanted to

1184
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 2: sort of poached me from the label for a lot

1185
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:00,120
Speaker 2: of more money, because that's how it was like, if

1186
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 2: they wanted to get you, they'd have to give you

1187
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 2: tons of more money. And I got offered tons of money.

1188
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 2: But I never wanted to leave, because how do you

1189
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 2: leave this roster? Right? They're all there. I became friends

1190
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 2: with all these people.

1191
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 1: You know.

1192
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go work

1193
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 2: for a new company and I'm going to make a

1194
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 2: lot of money. But it's just money, right, I'm going

1195
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 2: to be working Jake the Snake in the midgets when

1196
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 2: I could be talking to Bob Dylan like, well, there's

1197
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 2: no brainer. Like I just I just wanted to stay

1198
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 2: there as long as I could. And I stayed there

1199
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 2: as long as I stayed there till they just started

1200
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 2: downsizing as the business change, and you know they were

1201
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 2: giving you know, early retirement packages. You know, I just

1202
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 2: stayed there as long as I could. You know, in fact,

1203
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 2: I told him, I said, you guys are nuts. I said,

1204
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 2: right now, in my life, if you want to, they didn't.

1205
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 2: They just couldn't pay us the salaries that we were

1206
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 2: making anymore. I said, you should go to people like

1207
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 2: me and Don de Vito, who was Springsteen's and Bob

1208
01:05:57,600 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 2: Dylan's and really Joel's A and R got famous an R.

1209
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 2: I said, you should go to people like Don and

1210
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 2: me and say, look, we can't pay you this money anymore,

1211
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 2: but you know what, we'll give you a contract expansion,

1212
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 2: a contract, you know, extension. We'll pay you this but

1213
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:14,439
Speaker 2: for longer, just because we want you guys to stay here.

1214
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 2: I said, you guys are making a mistake. I said,

1215
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 2: I've had the right of my life. I'm ready to go.

1216
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 2: It's okay, I said, but you're making a mistake because

1217
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 2: what's going to happen is all these bands that come in,

1218
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 2: because every band that ever came in, they wanted to

1219
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 2: hang out with me and Don because they wanted to

1220
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 2: talk to the guys who worked with Bob Dylan and

1221
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 2: Bruce Springsteen and Pink Floyd. You're going to be left

1222
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 2: with kids and you're gonna have an imprint, it's gonna

1223
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 2: be a red label, but your heart's going to be gone, Like,

1224
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 2: don't you get it? And they told me they My

1225
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 2: boss at the time said, you know what, we even

1226
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 2: know it and you know Midst the corporation and we

1227
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 2: work for them. And I said, fine, you know, you

1228
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 2: know it's up to you. I said, I've had the

1229
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 2: right of my life. I said, but you know it's

1230
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 2: I wouldn't do it this way.

1231
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: So you meet your wife Sharon at summer camp. There

1232
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: are a couple of bumps. Ultimately you get married. This

1233
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: is a twenty four to seven business, like Jeffrey Katzenberg

1234
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: said it Disney when he was there. If you're not

1235
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: coming in on Saturday, don't even think about coming in

1236
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: on Sunday. So how did that work? Is she just

1237
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: a special person who could deal with the fact that

1238
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 1: you were gone and working or your mind was elsewhere

1239
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 1: all the time.

1240
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 2: I will say she's a special person and that she's

1241
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 2: very strong. I tried to walk a fine line because

1242
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 2: I didn't I saw some of the pitfalls that people

1243
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 2: you know, that were around me, that were falling into

1244
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 2: and marriages were falling apart. And because it is a

1245
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven business, you could be out every

1246
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 2: night of the week. If not for your own act,

1247
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 2: somebody else calls and goes, hey, man, I've got the

1248
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 2: next big thing. You got to come down and see

1249
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 2: it a lot of hours. And it's a lifestyle. There

1250
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 2: is no Saturday Sunday. It's just it never ends. They're

1251
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 2: all the same, you know, except for obviously Tuesday's air

1252
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 2: play Day and you know the business week. But you're

1253
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 2: without people. You're out with people all the time. So

1254
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 2: I am. I tried to walk a fine line, and

1255
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 2: we made a deal. I said, look, there are certain

1256
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: nights I have to be out. There's certain nights that

1257
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to want to be out, and I'm going

1258
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 2: to have to because I remember when someone had called

1259
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 2: me to the Troubadour to say, hey, there's this new

1260
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 2: guy out in John, I have a seat for you.

1261
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 2: You need to see this. You know, those kinds of

1262
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 2: things you'd want to be at. So I said, look,

1263
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 2: it was easier before we had kids, of course, because

1264
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 2: she could go everywhere with me. So we went to

1265
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 2: all the parties together, we went to all the shows together.

1266
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 2: So she was part of the life style. Even though

1267
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 2: if I had to work late some nights, she didn't

1268
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 2: want to go. When we start to have kids, it's different, okay.

1269
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 2: So I worked twelve years on the West coast for Columbia,

1270
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 2: and then we move east in eighty for me to

1271
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 2: run the rock department. So now you know, I told her,

1272
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 2: I said, look, this this obviously, this gig is more

1273
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 2: amped up, and I don't know if I'm going to

1274
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 2: be home. Well, I know I'm not going to be

1275
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 2: home in time to put the kids to bed. I'm

1276
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 2: going to see him in the morning. I said, tell

1277
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 2: you what, though, you take care of them all week,

1278
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 2: on the weekends, I'm going to take over. You do

1279
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 2: whatever you want. I will completely take over. And it

1280
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 2: would be kind of comical sometimes because you know, i'd

1281
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 2: be on the road for you know, four days, four

1282
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 2: nights without any little sleep. I'd come home, I'm totally trashed.

1283
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 2: Open the door. She's got these two little you know boys.

1284
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:01,120
Speaker 2: She holds them out to me. She goes here, I've

1285
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 2: had them all week. I'm like, Ahi, guys, it's your

1286
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 2: rock and roll dad. Just I just need a cup

1287
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,760
Speaker 2: of coffee. Just give me a second and I'll be

1288
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 2: with you. So and then they didn't understand. So on

1289
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 2: the weekends, i'd be with them. But but but then

1290
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 2: i'd take a cat nap, you know, every so often,

1291
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 2: like we'd be in the basement playing or you know,

1292
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 2: whenever in the front line. They'd see me take it.

1293
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 2: Catch cat nap Dad. And they're they're three years apart.

1294
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,679
Speaker 2: Two boys, right, why are you? Why are you always sleeping?

1295
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:37,639
Speaker 2: We don't understand why you're sleeping. I go, well, it's

1296
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 2: because I work really really hard. Well, we don't understand it.

1297
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 2: I go, like, come to work with me one day

1298
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:44,759
Speaker 2: and then you'll you'll get it. Okay, Oh yeah, okay,

1299
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 2: So I take them. They're little, like Amra all they were,

1300
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 2: but they're you know, I don't know, they're like eight,

1301
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 2: and you know, they're three years apart. So they're eight

1302
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:52,800
Speaker 2: and five or whatever they are, I don't know, six

1303
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 2: and nine. I take them to work, I go home.

1304
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 2: I go, okay, so do you get it? Nah? Dad,

1305
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:02,719
Speaker 2: we don't get it. All you do is play listen

1306
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 2: to They said all you do is listen to records

1307
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 2: all day, and then you get on the phone and

1308
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,760
Speaker 2: yell at people. And I go, no, no, I don't

1309
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 2: yell at people. I'm not that guy. That's our vase off.

1310
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 2: He's the yeller. I'm not the yeller. I'm not that guy.

1311
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 2: Oh no, Dade yellow people. Oh no, no, I'm telling you,

1312
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 2: I'm not that guy. Yeah. So no, we don't get it.

1313
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 2: You you you you you play records, you dance around

1314
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 2: and then you get on the phone and yellow people

1315
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:28,519
Speaker 2: and so there was no you know, and then what

1316
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 2: am I gonna do? Take them to shows? Which I did?

1317
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 2: Does is that helpful? Not really? You know, Hey, look

1318
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:35,839
Speaker 2: you know yeah this is Pink Floyd. Yeah, you're backstage

1319
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 2: eating the ReBs. Cool. Right, It's like you know, but

1320
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: it was, it's it's it is very hard. Uh and uh,

1321
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:49,680
Speaker 2: I to be honest, I would say that there was

1322
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 2: a time that it took its toll on our marriage.

1323
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 2: It's just it's just it's it's it's just got so big.

1324
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 2: But if you know that, you'll sit down, like you know,

1325
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 2: if you have a really great life's partner like I do,

1326
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 2: you'll sit down and go, look, since we're messed up

1327
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 2: and we got to fix this, you know, and if

1328
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 2: we can't fix it, let's go talk to somebody that'll

1329
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 2: help us fix it. But I think if your priorities

1330
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 2: are correct, you know, and my porties were always my

1331
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 2: life and my wife and my kids, that's reality, right.

1332
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:26,520
Speaker 2: This other thing is Disneyland. I'm having fun in Disneyland,

1333
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 2: but I saw too many people live in Disneyland and

1334
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 2: then when their job was over and they lost their

1335
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:35,920
Speaker 2: job for whatever reason. They try to go back home,

1336
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 2: but home's ruined. They try to call their friends and

1337
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:42,599
Speaker 2: nobody picks up the phone. You know, a lot of

1338
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:44,680
Speaker 2: in this business, a lot of people think, you know,

1339
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 2: your colleagues are your close friends. It's not always the case.

1340
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:53,680
Speaker 2: So I think from the get go, my priorities were correct,

1341
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 2: and I tried really hard, you know. And yeah, and

1342
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 2: when it came to that time where I knew it

1343
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 2: wasn't right, you know, we said on and had a

1344
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 2: long talk about it.

1345
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: Okay, we talked a little bit about Herbie Herbert. What

1346
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 1: makes a good manager, and let's be realistic, Okay. In there,

1347
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 1: there's some managers. They come in the building, they work

1348
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 1: the halls. Some people are nice, some people yell. In addition,

1349
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:25,600
Speaker 1: some people represent more commercially successful acts than others. So

1350
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 1: in addition to that, there are people who you know,

1351
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: you want to get off your back and therefore you

1352
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 1: do the work for them. So tell me about managers.

1353
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 2: Everybody has their own style for me, and I would say,

1354
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 2: having worked with so many managers, that I think the

1355
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 2: ones that actually get the most out of people. And

1356
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 2: I would say that Irving Azof is the exception, because

1357
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 2: I was, you know, a notorious yeller screamer. But IRV

1358
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 2: was also You could talk to him, but it was

1359
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:08,840
Speaker 2: just his style, you know. I mean, I already wound

1360
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 2: up doing some really great things for me and I

1361
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 2: have the big respect for him. But you know, early

1362
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 2: on him, he called me up. Yeah, it's in my book, right,

1363
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 2: I want klos and I want to know, right, that's

1364
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:20,080
Speaker 2: all he said. That's five times lear up the fun,

1365
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 2: you know. But I understood his His MO was he's

1366
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 2: going to just get everything he can out out of you,

1367
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 2: and he can go back to his artists and say,

1368
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 2: look I got everything at him. But you don't have

1369
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 2: to be that way. But I would say that the

1370
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 2: best managers were the managers that brought you into their world,

1371
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 2: made you a part of their family, made you a

1372
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:45,200
Speaker 2: part of the gang. Okay, Herbie Herbert, whenever you went

1373
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 2: me and the guys are doing this. You come here,

1374
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 2: we're in Hawaii at a convention. Come to our house.

1375
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:55,680
Speaker 2: Steve Ororke, Pink Floyd made me feel like part of

1376
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 2: the family. And I got to know David Gilmour and

1377
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 2: Nick Mason and Roger Waters in intimate ways. Right. That

1378
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 2: wouldn't happen if they didn't open the door. And I'm

1379
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 2: sure he told him, this is going to be good

1380
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:12,719
Speaker 2: for you to get to know this guy, right, Bruce Allen,

1381
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 2: tough guy, but but great guy, right. Great makes you

1382
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:22,320
Speaker 2: a part of that, makes you a part of his team,

1383
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:24,800
Speaker 2: makes you want to kill for him because he's just

1384
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 2: a great fucking guy. Right. If you're a manager that

1385
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 2: would come into my office, and I had some big

1386
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:36,080
Speaker 2: time managers who didn't have the gravitas of IRV as

1387
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 2: off or the respect from me because I saw they

1388
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,479
Speaker 2: stepped in shit or whatever that you know, you know,

1389
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:46,640
Speaker 2: IRV has always had my biggest respect. So yeah, ever

1390
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 2: you want to call up and let's go at it, fine,

1391
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 2: I don't care, because you know I have respect. But

1392
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:53,599
Speaker 2: these people would come into my office and we'd come

1393
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 2: out of a meeting and you know, everybody said, we're

1394
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 2: did this, this and this, and I'll never forget this.

1395
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 2: One guy in particular, big, big, big uh, you know,

1396
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 2: English man came into my office and said, so you

1397
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:08,679
Speaker 2: wanted to pin me, so you're gonna do all this right?

1398
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:11,680
Speaker 2: Like got it? It's like this is what you have

1399
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 2: to do. You got it right? And then he walked

1400
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 2: out of my office and literally out loud, I said

1401
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 2: to the walls because I knew he was walking by.

1402
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 2: Fuck you see you in my rearview mirror. Lose you know,

1403
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 2: I don't even want to talk to you again. And

1404
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:30,600
Speaker 2: I did the minimal, minimal amount because that guy was

1405
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 2: such a fucking asshole. I was like, yeah, okay, well

1406
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 2: you're not a race off, so guess what. You don't

1407
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 2: get to talk to me like that. So h But

1408
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:43,000
Speaker 2: I think that the best ones were the ones because Bob,

1409
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:45,639
Speaker 2: you know, one of the reasons I wrote the book

1410
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 2: I want I wanted people to know the family. We

1411
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 2: were all a family. Oh yeah, we have fights, you know,

1412
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:54,640
Speaker 2: like a family has fights. We'd all get along, but

1413
01:16:54,720 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 2: this is a family, Okay, you got I'm trying to

1414
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:04,559
Speaker 2: think this is Herbie. I mean, my favorite managers are Herbie, Herbert,

1415
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:10,519
Speaker 2: Bruce Allen, Steve O'Rourke. They're interchangeable in different ways, but

1416
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 2: they all made me feel like, you know, like like okay,

1417
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 2: it's this give and take right. The guys in Pink Floyd.

1418
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 2: By the time I'm working with them, they're elite. They

1419
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:25,599
Speaker 2: don't need to do anything, they don't want to do anything.

1420
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 2: They don't want to do interviews, they don't have to

1421
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:29,400
Speaker 2: do anything. And I'm telling them, guys, listen to me.

1422
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 2: You could be bigger. Believe it or not. You can

1423
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 2: do more, we can reach more people. I'm going to

1424
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 2: ask you to do some things. I know you're not

1425
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 2: gonna want to do them, but I'm just tell just

1426
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 2: take a step my way, you know. Go meet Jim Ladd,

1427
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:44,840
Speaker 2: do an interview, Meet some radio people. They're gonna love you.

1428
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 2: They've been playing your records their whole life. I want

1429
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 2: to borrow you know, your your giant pig and flight

1430
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 2: over radio stations. I want to do these things for

1431
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 2: you because I love your music. I mean, I'm a

1432
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 2: guitar guy. I mean me and Gilmour would spend all

1433
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 2: kinds of hours just talking about guitars. It's a family, right, Okay.

1434
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 2: You tell me you get close to a band like that,

1435
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:10,639
Speaker 2: they know that you're killing for them, right, they know it? Okay? Oh,

1436
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 2: well and you read about it my book. Oh we

1437
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 2: have a Christmas present for you. It's a thank you

1438
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 2: for all you did you know on Momentary Labs or

1439
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 2: a reason and frankly for all the things you've done

1440
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:22,680
Speaker 2: for us over the years. We have a you know,

1441
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 2: a thank you President. You know what's that? Oh, you

1442
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:30,639
Speaker 2: come and play with us one song live with Pink

1443
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 2: Floyd And I'm like, oh, a rehearsal right, that'd be great.

1444
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 2: They go, no, no, proper gig. I'm like, what in front

1445
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 2: of people? Oh yeah, I know in London, proper gig,

1446
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 2: London arena. I'm going to play a song, like you know,

1447
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:45,679
Speaker 2: and I talk to the manager because you know, God,

1448
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 2: don't talking to Gilmore talking to Magic Steve, you know, Like,

1449
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 2: I'm a real guitar player, Like, I'm not going to

1450
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 2: go I'm not a poser. I don't want to go

1451
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 2: up there and pose. It's not that's not my you know, No, no,

1452
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 2: he goes rap. Don't you get it? Yes, Gilmore knows you.

1453
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 2: You guys can talk abot guitars all the time. That's

1454
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 2: the gift, don't you get it? Like, yes, you play

1455
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 2: You're in ping Floyd for seven fucking minutes, don't you

1456
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:12,640
Speaker 2: get it. I'm like, holy shit, Okay, Bob, who does that? Well,

1457
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 2: how's that going to happen? Who does that? Okay, it

1458
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 2: happens because of of the band and the management and

1459
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,599
Speaker 2: you know that whole family of people who you get

1460
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,480
Speaker 2: to know. You get to know Storm Thorguson the Great

1461
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 2: Graphic Designer, you get to know the roadies, you get

1462
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:33,560
Speaker 2: to know the guitar tech, Phil Taylor, you know everybody.

1463
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 2: You that kind of management. How do you think I

1464
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 2: promoted them after that? I just traded like so with

1465
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:44,720
Speaker 2: David Gilmore in the London Arena. Are you fucking kidding me?

1466
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 2: Come on? You know that's the best kind of manager

1467
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 2: because you're taking the hill. You know, John Landell, Bruce

1468
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 2: Springsteen Okay, okay, in my top five. Okay, he's in

1469
01:19:56,360 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 2: my top five. Same thing. Now you're part of Bruce's camp.

1470
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:03,679
Speaker 2: You're taking the hill together. You know, it's beyond celebrity.

1471
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 2: It's it's not about rock star. It's about it's eye

1472
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 2: to eye. It's guys, guys, we're working together, take the hill.

1473
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 2: We're all trying to do the same thing. You know.

1474
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 2: It's it's it's uh, that's that was the most fulfilling

1475
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 2: part of it, right. These people make you a part

1476
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:26,719
Speaker 2: of the gang. You just you feel like you belong.

1477
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, you're going to kill for those people, Bob.

1478
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 1: Okay, they do call it show business, not show friends.

1479
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:46,760
Speaker 1: So there are bands that are no longer on the

1480
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 1: label for whatever reason. So then do you maintain any contact?

1481
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:57,280
Speaker 2: You know, I do. It's off and on. I'm so

1482
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:02,800
Speaker 2: used to contacting people, you know, when there's a when

1483
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,000
Speaker 2: there's a project, we would see you know, we would

1484
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 2: rekindle a friendship every three years or whenever a record

1485
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:10,599
Speaker 2: would come out. It's not, you know. I mean I

1486
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:13,840
Speaker 2: used to be closer to Gilmore, he used to send

1487
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:18,599
Speaker 2: me Christmas card every year. Elvis Costello, but over the years,

1488
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 2: I didn't want to push it. You know, it's not

1489
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 2: you know, like, if you want to be friends, great,

1490
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 2: I don't you know, I didn't like need to be friends.

1491
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 2: I enjoyed our friendships. One guy who I'm believing or not,

1492
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 2: who I'm probably the closest with right now is Bob Geldolf.

1493
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 2: We remain friends over the years. I don't know why.

1494
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 2: We just would see each other or you know, he

1495
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 2: had some legal stuff then you needed help on and

1496
01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 2: we just remained buddies. Got invited to his wedding south

1497
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 2: of France, you know a few years ago. I mean,

1498
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:54,960
Speaker 2: he's he's a he's a he's a he's a crack up,

1499
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 2: you know, but you know the other people. Let me

1500
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 2: just say this because I just want to say this

1501
01:21:59,880 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 2: about certain artists. Okay, Oh, the Bloyster called guys are

1502
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 2: very close friends of mine. For a year, I live

1503
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,320
Speaker 2: in this town because of the lead singer lives here

1504
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 2: and he kept me coming out for barbecue. So I

1505
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:12,360
Speaker 2: live in you know, Port Washington, New York. Okay, so,

1506
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 2: but but I just want to make one point. Okay,

1507
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:17,880
Speaker 2: I write this book, you start to reach out for quotes.

1508
01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know if I'm going to

1509
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 2: get quotes. Okay, here, Hero, I'll write you, you know,

1510
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 2: if you want, I'll write you what I wrote about you, Like,

1511
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:29,760
Speaker 2: what what do you need? Right? Nothing? Nick Mason two

1512
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,760
Speaker 2: days give me the best, most beautiful quote was the

1513
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 2: first one I got. It was like if I stopped

1514
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:38,559
Speaker 2: right there right Elvis Costello, Hey, do you want me

1515
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 2: to send you the book? Do you want me to

1516
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 2: to you know, to to do you need to see

1517
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 2: what I wrote about you? Nothing? Next day quote, Bloyster,

1518
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 2: call it next day quote. You know it's not even

1519
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 2: if we're not friends. There's so much. There's so much,

1520
01:22:57,160 --> 01:23:00,719
Speaker 2: you know, brotherhood and sisterhood in all of the stuff

1521
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 2: that we did together. They're there immediately there, you know.

1522
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:11,200
Speaker 2: And for whatever reason, Bob, you know, well.

1523
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:12,639
Speaker 1: I want to talk a big than I know, Bob,

1524
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 1: but that's not the point of my story. Okay, you

1525
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:21,080
Speaker 1: tell the famous story of Bob dissing the radio guys

1526
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 1: when they're in the building the way the story was

1527
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 1: told to me, which was not by you. Was this

1528
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:35,640
Speaker 1: permanently negatively affected the band Boomtown Rat success in America?

1529
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 1: In the book? You say, well, they ended up having

1530
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: a hit. Give me your take.

1531
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 2: No, I don't think I wasn't permanent at all. I mean,

1532
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 2: if it was permanent, we wouldn't have had They wouldn't

1533
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:50,479
Speaker 2: nobody would have played. I don't like money. It would

1534
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 2: have never happened if it was permanent. No, it wasn't permanent.

1535
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:57,720
Speaker 2: It's just Bob is full of pisson vinegar, and he

1536
01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 2: has a way of shooting himself in the foot. I mean,

1537
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 2: he's very you know, he has no filter. If you

1538
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:10,439
Speaker 2: know him, you know he's he's you know, hey, look,

1539
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 2: you guys are a lot alike. You have no filter,

1540
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:17,240
Speaker 2: right right, right, So Bob is the same way, and

1541
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 2: and look Elvis Costello. I would have to pull out

1542
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:23,880
Speaker 2: sometimes say, oh, look, you're not helping yourself if you

1543
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 2: have certain feelings about certain bands, tell me, don't say

1544
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:29,559
Speaker 2: this on the radio. Is not helping your career, okay.

1545
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 2: And I would have the same conversation with Bob Geldoff.

1546
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 2: Talk to me, do not say this ship on the radio.

1547
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 2: But Bob is a rebel, right, and Bob likes to

1548
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:47,519
Speaker 2: push buttons, and I think in his mind, excuse me,

1549
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 2: he was just giving them a head butt, right, Okay.

1550
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 2: So for those who don't know, there was a big

1551
01:24:55,560 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 2: consultancy run by Lee Abrams. It was called Superstars. Lee

1552
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:03,599
Speaker 2: Everyone's in charge of sixty rock stations, and he had

1553
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:07,719
Speaker 2: a convention, and you know, we thought, as we usually do, Hey,

1554
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:10,000
Speaker 2: first of all, the Boomtown Rats are amazing band live.

1555
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:11,680
Speaker 2: We said, man, all we got to do is have

1556
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:14,040
Speaker 2: these guys play in front of you know, these programmers

1557
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:15,560
Speaker 2: that they're going to go, holy shit, this band's a

1558
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 2: real band. Let's let's go easy peasy. It was the

1559
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 2: days of the satin jackets. Everybody had satin jackets for

1560
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:28,799
Speaker 2: bands and whatever. Bob's playing a great set, and Bob's

1561
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:31,640
Speaker 2: playing a great set, and he looks out and he

1562
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 2: sees he knows why he's there. He sees all the

1563
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,920
Speaker 2: radio people. But Bob's you know, I mean, you're talking

1564
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:38,680
Speaker 2: about a guy, you know, who got in a fight

1565
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 2: with fifty thousand people at you know that, you know,

1566
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:45,720
Speaker 2: the World Music Festival was Like Bob, it's like you

1567
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 2: read about it, write in my books, like so he

1568
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 2: once again in my head butt, Hey, what do you

1569
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:53,640
Speaker 2: think of radio today? Where he goes the audience, what

1570
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 2: do you think of rock radio today? Well, what do

1571
01:25:55,439 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 2: you when a guy like Bob Geldoff, you know, the

1572
01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 2: rebel punk guy is saying, what do you think the

1573
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 2: audience is going to go? Yeah, Well, if you have

1574
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:05,040
Speaker 2: a problem with that, all those guys in the back,

1575
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 2: they're the guys that are running your rock stations today.

1576
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:09,679
Speaker 2: And if you want to change it, you go talk

1577
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:11,840
Speaker 2: to him. Well, Bob's always trying to make the world

1578
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 2: a better place, you know, repair the world. Takun alam great, Bob.

1579
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 2: I like it, you know, But I think he just

1580
01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:21,400
Speaker 2: thought he was giving him a head butt. I don't

1581
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:23,599
Speaker 2: think he realized what he had done, because he did

1582
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:26,679
Speaker 2: do some damage that night. Because those guys have egos

1583
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, really, you know, we're in charge

1584
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:32,839
Speaker 2: of your career. And there were guys that were grumbling

1585
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 2: as they left, you know, and Lee Abrams himself, you know,

1586
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:40,280
Speaker 2: came up to me and Jonathan Caffino, who's the boomtown

1587
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 2: Rats marketing guy, and going really, and I'm like, Lee,

1588
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 2: you know, it's Bob. It's like, you know, come on,

1589
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 2: you got to expect he's just giving you guys a

1590
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 2: head butt. You know, Lee, smart guy like Lee knows

1591
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:54,760
Speaker 2: what's up. So he goes, I know, but not the

1592
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:56,400
Speaker 2: greatest thing you could have done. I said, I know,

1593
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:01,439
Speaker 2: you know, but I said it'll be okay. And it was.

1594
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:05,960
Speaker 2: And I know, Jonathan, our next stop was in Seattle.

1595
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:07,760
Speaker 2: Never forget it keme to we got to do a

1596
01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:09,600
Speaker 2: live broadcast right now. We got to we have to

1597
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 2: counteract what just happened. I said, no, no, no, I said, John,

1598
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,800
Speaker 2: just just leave it alone. You know, these guys, I know,

1599
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:17,479
Speaker 2: these guys. Just let some space happen, just let the

1600
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 2: air out. I'll talk to these guys one by one,

1601
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:23,680
Speaker 2: you know, and it'll be okay. And it was. I mean,

1602
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:27,160
Speaker 2: by the time, you know, artist Surfacing came out, It's

1603
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 2: huge so it wasn't you know, it wasn't that. It

1604
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 2: was it was just more or less not having you know,

1605
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 2: the records after that or whatever else was happening with

1606
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 2: them on the road or whatever. No, no, there's no permanent.

1607
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:43,960
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to rock stars in general, a

1608
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 1: right personal experiences. If you say how great they are

1609
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 1: and how much you love their music, they shut down.

1610
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 1: Whereas like Joe Walsh I used class example, you want

1611
01:27:56,479 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 1: to talk cam radio with him, you have a regular conversation.

1612
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 1: You have to treat these people as people. But at

1613
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 1: the end of the day, can we say this is

1614
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 1: business or would you consider some of these people real friends?

1615
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:19,880
Speaker 2: Oh, real friends without a doubt. No, it's no real

1616
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:22,519
Speaker 2: friends without a doubt, because the business is the business,

1617
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 2: and the celebrity is the celebrity. And as you say,

1618
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 2: you can have real conversations with people. Now, I will

1619
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:30,360
Speaker 2: admit that it took me a second when it when

1620
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 2: it was bands that were ahead of me, you know,

1621
01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:36,360
Speaker 2: like the Floyd guys, and you know, Mick and Keith

1622
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:39,680
Speaker 2: and Bob Dylan. I mean because since I'm seventeen years old,

1623
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 2: mean those guys are deep inside me. I'm you know,

1624
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 2: I will admit to being starstruck. I mean, I don't

1625
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 2: know how you couldn't be. It's you know, But once

1626
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:49,679
Speaker 2: I would get used to it, then you'd have real conversation.

1627
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 2: I mean I used to have love talking to Bob Dylan.

1628
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 2: I mean we we'd have conversations about just being dads.

1629
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:56,160
Speaker 2: You know, how is it being a dad? You know,

1630
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:58,840
Speaker 2: I'm like Bob, and I don't know what to tell

1631
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 2: my kids, Like, you know, guy, I have this whole history,

1632
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:03,559
Speaker 2: you know. And he was like, well, you know, you're lucky,

1633
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:06,880
Speaker 2: you know you can, you know, just don't don't you know,

1634
01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:09,080
Speaker 2: you don't have to tell them everything rap, just you know,

1635
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:11,200
Speaker 2: just just tell them some stuff. He goes, look at me, man,

1636
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:14,000
Speaker 2: he goes, My whole life's in the press. Man, my

1637
01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:17,040
Speaker 2: the you know, the you know, the women, the drugs.

1638
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:20,200
Speaker 2: I'm busted, you know, like but you you know, and

1639
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:22,760
Speaker 2: we'd have these great conversations. I would love to have

1640
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:26,439
Speaker 2: conversations with Keith Richards and David Gilmore about guitars, because

1641
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:30,679
Speaker 2: these guys are guitar guys. They're rock stars. Second, okay,

1642
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:34,559
Speaker 2: they are guitar players. They love the guitar. It's their friend.

1643
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:37,720
Speaker 2: It's their lover used to talk to guitar guys. It's we're

1644
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:41,000
Speaker 2: like this giant family of people. No, you know, Keith

1645
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:44,760
Speaker 2: Richards is a really cool guy. Okay. I have a

1646
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:46,360
Speaker 2: picture of my book of me and Keith, and I

1647
01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:49,320
Speaker 2: took out him when he was you know, however, he

1648
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:52,559
Speaker 2: was eight years old or somebody to see the rolling Stones.

1649
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 2: Right backstage, we're meeting the guys who wanted them to

1650
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 2: meet Keith Richards, and I'm like, I need you to

1651
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 2: meet this guy. This is like my all time favorite.

1652
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 2: Like I learned how to play guitar. List into this guy, right,

1653
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 2: So introduce him to Keith. I'm going, this is the

1654
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:08,120
Speaker 2: greatest rock and roll guitar player in the world. And

1655
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:10,439
Speaker 2: he's like going, ah, don't listen, dear old man. Don't

1656
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 2: believe everything he says. So we're gonna take a picture.

1657
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:15,840
Speaker 2: Keith looks over to me, he goes, hey, we should

1658
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:19,400
Speaker 2: kneel down. Your son's like little right, you know, like

1659
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 2: we should kneel down. The reason we're kneeling in that

1660
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:25,519
Speaker 2: picture isn't because of me. It's cause of Keith, because

1661
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 2: he's a sensitive person. Because he knew it meant a

1662
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 2: lot and he you know, we should kneel down to

1663
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:33,559
Speaker 2: take a picture with your son. So you know, not

1664
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:37,559
Speaker 2: everybody is the same, but these people are people, and

1665
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:42,400
Speaker 2: you can have real conversations with them, you know, after

1666
01:30:42,439 --> 01:30:49,840
Speaker 2: you get over that starstruck part. And then yeah, because

1667
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:51,320
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you know, it's it's

1668
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 2: so it's they're overwhelmed with that stuff. You know, it's

1669
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:54,799
Speaker 2: it's okay.

1670
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:59,599
Speaker 1: No one likes to work with an asshole. Did you

1671
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:03,320
Speaker 1: find and some of these musicians were assholes or did

1672
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:05,960
Speaker 1: they get the memo or did the manager keep him

1673
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:08,799
Speaker 1: at the distance because they know where they were difficult people?

1674
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 2: There were I can only remember one guy that I

1675
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:20,800
Speaker 2: thought was a total asshole, and then other people would

1676
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:23,200
Speaker 2: be frustrating. So like, I don't need to say the

1677
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 2: guy's name, but he was a slide guitar player. Was

1678
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:30,120
Speaker 2: in the mid seventies. This guy was terrible. All this

1679
01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:32,640
Speaker 2: guy did was give me shit everywhere we went. I

1680
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 2: was I couldn't believe it. I didn't know why I

1681
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:37,680
Speaker 2: introduced him to a friend of mine. Why is this

1682
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 2: guy here? Well, because he runs San Francisco, you should

1683
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:44,280
Speaker 2: know him. Yeah, blah blah blah blah, I'll never forget this.

1684
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:46,800
Speaker 2: I was pouring some wine and we're all learning how to,

1685
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:48,840
Speaker 2: you know, drink fine wine. Then got on an expense

1686
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 2: account and I was pouring some wine and I guess

1687
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:53,439
Speaker 2: I part a little too much, you know, because you

1688
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:55,360
Speaker 2: have to be careful. There's like dregs, you know, and

1689
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 2: you know, what are you doing? What are you doing?

1690
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:01,559
Speaker 2: You're letting the drags out. I mean, when I was

1691
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 2: done with the promo tour with this guy, was like,

1692
01:32:03,080 --> 01:32:05,320
Speaker 2: I never want to talk to this guy again. You know,

1693
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:08,800
Speaker 2: it's like, just get me out of his life. But

1694
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:12,439
Speaker 2: most people who are trying to get somewhere, if some

1695
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:18,639
Speaker 2: of them are more stubborn, you know, some are could

1696
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 2: be frustrating, but most of them would listen. They could

1697
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:26,960
Speaker 2: be stubborn, but they would listen. If I was strong

1698
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:29,360
Speaker 2: and said, listen, you can get away with this, but

1699
01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:31,840
Speaker 2: this is not going to be good for you, right,

1700
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:35,960
Speaker 2: you know, just please listen to me. So I never

1701
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:42,600
Speaker 2: really I worked with cerebral people that would drive you

1702
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:47,479
Speaker 2: out of your fucking mind, but you it was okay

1703
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:51,000
Speaker 2: because it was like you, they're not us, they think different,

1704
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:58,160
Speaker 2: They're not if they wouldn't be them, right, if if

1705
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:00,160
Speaker 2: they if they saw things like we see things, but

1706
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:03,639
Speaker 2: they don't see things like we see things because it's

1707
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:07,519
Speaker 2: imagine the universe and it's the Sun and all the planets, right,

1708
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:09,559
Speaker 2: so we're the planet's going around the universe, and we

1709
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:11,640
Speaker 2: see the Sun. We have great perspective. We can watch it.

1710
01:33:11,720 --> 01:33:14,600
Speaker 2: We can see when there's you know, you know, explosions

1711
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:17,360
Speaker 2: on the Sun and everything. They can't see it because

1712
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:21,120
Speaker 2: they're the Sun. They can't see it. And so if

1713
01:33:21,160 --> 01:33:23,599
Speaker 2: they're smart, they listen to people like me, like you,

1714
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 2: like any of us who could help them through certain parts.

1715
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 2: You know, in my book, you know, there's things. You know,

1716
01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:34,559
Speaker 2: there's a Roger water story where I had to just say, look, Roger,

1717
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 2: you need to listen to me on this, right, And

1718
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:44,280
Speaker 2: he did. You know, Bob, don't. It's funny, Bob. He

1719
01:33:44,320 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 2: has no idea about promotion, right, it's not. He's like Percasso.

1720
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:50,800
Speaker 2: He just paints and he would see me from time

1721
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:53,439
Speaker 2: to time and he say, rap. When I started doing marketing.

1722
01:33:53,439 --> 01:33:55,360
Speaker 2: After I did the promotion thing, I was doing creative

1723
01:33:55,400 --> 01:33:57,439
Speaker 2: marketing stuff, had a radio series, at a TV showt

1724
01:33:57,439 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 2: all this kind of stuff. He goes man man, he goes,

1725
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 2: you have all this great stuff. Why don't you and

1726
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:04,640
Speaker 2: I ever do anything? He goes, you do all this

1727
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:07,519
Speaker 2: great stuff. I was like, Bob, you know I'm your

1728
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:10,000
Speaker 2: biggest fan. You're this yeah, I mean, you know a guy,

1729
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:12,639
Speaker 2: you're like the Shakespeare of our time. You're fucking Bob Dylan?

1730
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:14,840
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Every time you put a record out,

1731
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:16,840
Speaker 2: I tell you twenty things you don't want to do him.

1732
01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 2: He doesn't like to promote himself that way. He's just

1733
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:21,360
Speaker 2: not that's not him. He just you know, you can

1734
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 2: tell him twenty things and he'll say, Okay, I'll do

1735
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:25,880
Speaker 2: this one, you know, and I admire it. I mean,

1736
01:34:25,880 --> 01:34:27,840
Speaker 2: here's a guy from the old school, right. How's this

1737
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:32,120
Speaker 2: quote unquote Paul I don't like to push my music

1738
01:34:32,280 --> 01:34:37,679
Speaker 2: that way, Bob Dylan, Okay, big respect even for little

1739
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:40,720
Speaker 2: things look unannounced. I'll just take you to Scott Muni

1740
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:43,799
Speaker 2: show at night on n ADW. Just show up. Nah,

1741
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:48,559
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it. How's this. Here's a great one,

1742
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 2: mid mid eighties. He's huge, early eighties right, he's on fire, right, Bob.

1743
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:59,440
Speaker 2: I just got a call from CBS two hour primetime television.

1744
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:03,280
Speaker 2: Oh your show? Do whatever? You want. They're not gonna

1745
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:05,280
Speaker 2: tell you what to play. Which Bob had bad experiences

1746
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 2: in the past with censers and all this shit. Right

1747
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:11,720
Speaker 2: sures done two hours prime time. It's your show. I

1748
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:15,800
Speaker 2: ain't doing that, man, Like, what are you talking about? No? No, no, man,

1749
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:19,439
Speaker 2: you know you nobody's gonna watch that. You know you

1750
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:21,880
Speaker 2: need you need a hook, man, you need like live

1751
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 2: it or farm it. You know nobody nobody's gonna watch it.

1752
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 2: You need a hook. No, no, Bob Dylan, No, I

1753
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:31,479
Speaker 2: go Bob. You're Bob Dylan. You know you're the event.

1754
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:33,640
Speaker 2: You get it. You don't need Live It or farm It.

1755
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:37,280
Speaker 2: You're fucking Bob Dylan. It's like it's not what you think.

1756
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 2: It's like you're it. No no, man, I'm not doing that.

1757
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:44,439
Speaker 2: Nobody's gonna watch that. So he doesn't some things he

1758
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 2: knows some said, but you know what he has done? Great?

1759
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:49,360
Speaker 2: All right? What are you gonna say, Oh, big mistake,

1760
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:51,760
Speaker 2: you didn't do the television special. Come on, tell me

1761
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:55,840
Speaker 2: you tell me who in their latest years could put

1762
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:58,320
Speaker 2: out Time out of Mind and rough and rowdy ways

1763
01:35:58,520 --> 01:35:59,320
Speaker 2: and they still.

1764
01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:02,200
Speaker 3: Be really really really great records. Tell me name me

1765
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:06,360
Speaker 3: one artist, name anybody. You can't you can think about it.

1766
01:36:06,439 --> 01:36:10,160
Speaker 3: We can't name anyone. And that's how many artists do

1767
01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:11,800
Speaker 3: we know. I don't even want to say their names

1768
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:14,920
Speaker 3: because I don't want to miss them. But we can't

1769
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 3: name them. He's the one and only, but him legend dearly.

1770
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:24,280
Speaker 3: He tracked sales and was aware of his business. Was

1771
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:28,000
Speaker 3: he aware of what radio stations were playing his records?

1772
01:36:28,479 --> 01:36:31,680
Speaker 3: And even though we wouldn't do stuff. Was he completely

1773
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:35,879
Speaker 3: removed or was he involved in the process?

1774
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:40,439
Speaker 2: I got it. I don't know. I'd say fifty to fifty.

1775
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 2: He wanted to know. Look, he's like any artist, right,

1776
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:49,840
Speaker 2: he wanted to know what was going on. I only

1777
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:54,280
Speaker 2: say fifty to fifty because Bob doesn't make music for radio. Right.

1778
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:58,559
Speaker 2: He once had a writing session with Michael Bolton, which

1779
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:01,240
Speaker 2: I find fascinating. And anyway, they're writing a song together

1780
01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:03,680
Speaker 2: and Michael adds something and Bob goes, well, why are

1781
01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:05,840
Speaker 2: you doing that man? And Michael goes, well, that's for

1782
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:07,519
Speaker 2: the radio. You know. It's just like a hook they'll

1783
01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:10,840
Speaker 2: keep going around. Bob goes, I'm not writing it. I'm

1784
01:37:10,840 --> 01:37:13,800
Speaker 2: not I'm not writing the song for the radio man, Like,

1785
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:15,439
Speaker 2: what are you doing, like what you're like, what are

1786
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 2: you talking about? Bob just paints, right, Bob's Picasso. He

1787
01:37:21,080 --> 01:37:23,519
Speaker 2: could care less. That's why he's one of the greatest

1788
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:25,800
Speaker 2: artists they'll ever be. He's just Bob, right, he just

1789
01:37:25,880 --> 01:37:28,800
Speaker 2: paints right. But he did ask me once, you know

1790
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:30,639
Speaker 2: I wrote I wrote this in my book. He wanted

1791
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:33,439
Speaker 2: to know. He goes, Look, you got to tell me something, man,

1792
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:37,120
Speaker 2: Why is it no matter what I do, I can

1793
01:37:37,160 --> 01:37:40,600
Speaker 2: only sell a million records. Fleetwood Mac they sell like

1794
01:37:40,640 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 2: six million records, right, No matter what I do, I

1795
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:47,559
Speaker 2: can't only sell a million. And at the time it

1796
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:49,559
Speaker 2: was similar for Bruce Springsteen. He was like known as

1797
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 2: the biggest cult right he could sell a million of

1798
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:56,760
Speaker 2: records on rock radio, but without a hit single. Not right,

1799
01:37:56,800 --> 01:37:58,400
Speaker 2: It's just it's it's just the way it is. So

1800
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:03,679
Speaker 2: I would try to explain it to him. I'd say, Bob, look,

1801
01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:08,479
Speaker 2: Fleet went back. They go into the craft hit singles.

1802
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 2: They go into a studio for six months, they overdub

1803
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:15,880
Speaker 2: and overdub, and they produce and they edit and their

1804
01:38:15,920 --> 01:38:20,080
Speaker 2: crafting hit singles. This is their craft. Okay, you go

1805
01:38:20,160 --> 01:38:23,080
Speaker 2: into a dentist office and you pull up you know,

1806
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:25,840
Speaker 2: a remote truck and two weeks later it's roll at

1807
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:30,360
Speaker 2: Bob and that's your album. It's fucking brilliant because it's

1808
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:35,320
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan record. But you see the difference, right, And

1809
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:38,880
Speaker 2: he looks at me and he goes, well, I must

1810
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:42,920
Speaker 2: admit we're off the beaten path. I was like, Bob,

1811
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:46,920
Speaker 2: off the beating fucking path. It's like, you know you're

1812
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:49,920
Speaker 2: in the darkest chungles of Africa, but it's like, you

1813
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:52,920
Speaker 2: know it's nine Days of a Bob. But Bob, you're

1814
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:56,600
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan. It doesn't matter. Because I wanted him to

1815
01:38:56,680 --> 01:39:00,640
Speaker 2: understand they can no matter what they do. Don't be

1816
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:04,800
Speaker 2: a numbers guy. You can You're Bob Dylan. You'll they

1817
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:08,160
Speaker 2: can never be Bob Dylan. Saw all the artists I

1818
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:11,759
Speaker 2: work with, they wish they could write one song like you.

1819
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:14,120
Speaker 2: One blown in the Wind, one times they were changing

1820
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:17,720
Speaker 2: one subterranean home, six blues, one hurricane. They all wish

1821
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:22,360
Speaker 2: I could just write one, And you've written hundreds. But Bob,

1822
01:39:23,320 --> 01:39:25,920
Speaker 2: you know, it's like it's you're a poet. It's an

1823
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:30,800
Speaker 2: acquired taste. Right, This isn't this isn't you know jingles? Right,

1824
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:34,960
Speaker 2: this is poetry. Same with Springsteen. You know, he wasn't

1825
01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 2: a fan of it at the time, but you know,

1826
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:39,760
Speaker 2: but I said, Bob, you know, it's just how it is.

1827
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:41,559
Speaker 2: But but and you know, and he walked away and

1828
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:44,679
Speaker 2: he understood it. I don't think it made him really

1829
01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:48,439
Speaker 2: happy because he's thinking, well, if I'm Bob Dylan and

1830
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:52,639
Speaker 2: I'm so great, can't I sell you know, one million,

1831
01:39:52,720 --> 01:39:56,200
Speaker 2: five hundred thousand, you know, you know, records at least once.

1832
01:39:57,640 --> 01:39:59,679
Speaker 2: But look, it's like the Velvet Underground. How many records

1833
01:39:59,680 --> 01:40:02,719
Speaker 2: you think the An Underground sold? Right? Not that many?

1834
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:07,040
Speaker 2: Seminal lou Reed, Are you kidding me? These guys change

1835
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:09,719
Speaker 2: the face of rock. Well, who are the important people?

1836
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:14,479
Speaker 2: You know? People? That's part of the eighties downside was

1837
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:17,640
Speaker 2: everybody became numbers people and then in the end of

1838
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:20,839
Speaker 2: the day, that's what ruined our business. The music business

1839
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:26,160
Speaker 2: became the money business, and that's what ruined the record business. Right.

1840
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:29,479
Speaker 2: But you know, you want to talk about art and

1841
01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:32,880
Speaker 2: things that matter, things that move the needle. A guy

1842
01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:35,600
Speaker 2: that changes a generation, which I know he doesn't like

1843
01:40:35,680 --> 01:40:38,479
Speaker 2: that handle. Sorry Bob, but not sorry. You know Bob

1844
01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 2: is and Bob Dylan, you changed my life you did

1845
01:40:42,720 --> 01:40:44,040
Speaker 2: because I listened to you and I was like, oh

1846
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:46,360
Speaker 2: my god, this guy's telling me there's a new thing

1847
01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:47,720
Speaker 2: I can be this. I don't have to live in

1848
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:49,799
Speaker 2: this square world that I'm growing up in the fifties

1849
01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:51,479
Speaker 2: because I can't relate and I don't know if I'm

1850
01:40:51,479 --> 01:40:54,080
Speaker 2: going to make it. But this guy's coming along and

1851
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:57,720
Speaker 2: he's making it different, and he's changing my life and

1852
01:40:57,760 --> 01:41:01,120
Speaker 2: a whole generation's life. And it just happened, you know,

1853
01:41:01,120 --> 01:41:03,320
Speaker 2: because you know, the times helped make the man. But

1854
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 2: you know what are you know, civilis rights movement, you know,

1855
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:09,800
Speaker 2: civil civil rights movement, and you know Vietnam and everything else.

1856
01:41:10,080 --> 01:41:12,120
Speaker 2: The times do help make the man, but it doesn't

1857
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:17,560
Speaker 2: matter Bob Dylan, you know Bob Dylan. So you know,

1858
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:20,360
Speaker 2: I mean, let's you talk about things that are important

1859
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:22,880
Speaker 2: and the important things. This is what's fucked up with

1860
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 2: the music business now. The important things aren't always about

1861
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:29,599
Speaker 2: the money. It's like Willie, you know, some people, somebody's

1862
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:33,080
Speaker 2: got to figure this out eventually. The important things that

1863
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:36,679
Speaker 2: things that move the needle aren't always about the money,

1864
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:38,640
Speaker 2: and it's not always about the units, and it's not

1865
01:41:38,640 --> 01:41:41,559
Speaker 2: always about oh we sold you know five million, And

1866
01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:43,840
Speaker 2: it's not always about that. If the art's good, yeah,

1867
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 2: you can sell that. But that's but the money is

1868
01:41:46,479 --> 01:41:50,160
Speaker 2: not where it's at. It's the messages. You know, what

1869
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:52,200
Speaker 2: do you have to say to me as an artist?

1870
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:54,839
Speaker 2: I got the young bands talking to me all the time. Okay,

1871
01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:57,360
Speaker 2: oh Paul, you did this all your life. Tell us,

1872
01:41:57,520 --> 01:41:59,519
Speaker 2: tell us the secrets. Well, how do you do it today?

1873
01:41:59,720 --> 01:42:02,280
Speaker 2: Is it TikTok? Is it schmick talk? Is it this?

1874
01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:06,880
Speaker 2: Is it that? No, it's you. Look at yourself. Why

1875
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:08,880
Speaker 2: didn't you get an Encore? I just saw you play.

1876
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:09,960
Speaker 2: Do you ever think about that?

1877
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:10,800
Speaker 1: No?

1878
01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:15,559
Speaker 2: Well, that's your job, right, It's like it's like your

1879
01:42:15,760 --> 01:42:18,920
Speaker 2: job is to make sure that you have messages that

1880
01:42:19,040 --> 01:42:22,160
Speaker 2: talk to me, that they're so important that when you

1881
01:42:22,200 --> 01:42:24,320
Speaker 2: come and play again in a month, I need to

1882
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:26,680
Speaker 2: come and hear you because I want to make you

1883
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:30,439
Speaker 2: part of my life. If your people aren't jumping up

1884
01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 2: and screaming at the end of your set and demanding

1885
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:40,760
Speaker 2: another song, you've failed. Do you understand they're not here

1886
01:42:41,680 --> 01:42:43,439
Speaker 2: so you know it's not you. Oh I'm gonna play

1887
01:42:43,439 --> 01:42:45,120
Speaker 2: my songs and they're gonna listen to me. How cool

1888
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:49,120
Speaker 2: I am? No? No, they're not there for you. You

1889
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:52,280
Speaker 2: you have to be there for them. I'm shocked at

1890
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:54,680
Speaker 2: how many people don't understand this.

1891
01:42:54,880 --> 01:42:55,040
Speaker 1: Right.

1892
01:42:55,120 --> 01:42:57,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, if you can do that and you have

1893
01:42:58,040 --> 01:43:01,000
Speaker 2: something real to say, people will want to hear you

1894
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:02,840
Speaker 2: and they want to hear you again, and it's all right,

1895
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:05,200
Speaker 2: then you'll get on TikTok and that's a big amplifier

1896
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:09,800
Speaker 2: for you. But that isn't that is that's not it right,

1897
01:43:09,880 --> 01:43:14,280
Speaker 2: that's not the secret sauce. It's you, you know, and

1898
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:17,479
Speaker 2: and it's okay. If you don't get an encore, go

1899
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:20,000
Speaker 2: back and talk about it. Why didn't we get an encore?

1900
01:43:20,280 --> 01:43:22,479
Speaker 2: Work on it? Maybe my songs have to be better.

1901
01:43:22,680 --> 01:43:25,719
Speaker 2: Work on your songs, work on your material. Your job

1902
01:43:26,160 --> 01:43:29,040
Speaker 2: is to be great, and don't stop until you're great,

1903
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:30,559
Speaker 2: otherwise you ain't gonna get there.

1904
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:43,599
Speaker 1: Okay. You work literally with household names. Their music is different.

1905
01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:49,320
Speaker 1: Billy Joel, Pink, Floyd, The Stones, Mick Jagger solo, Paul McCartney,

1906
01:43:49,720 --> 01:43:53,640
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan. Is there a thread through these people? You

1907
01:43:53,800 --> 01:43:57,639
Speaker 1: talked about them being myopic, being the sun and can't

1908
01:43:57,680 --> 01:44:00,800
Speaker 1: being able to see the universe, But is there's some

1909
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:03,599
Speaker 1: other thread that goes through all these people.

1910
01:44:06,479 --> 01:44:09,120
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, there is a thread that goes through all

1911
01:44:09,160 --> 01:44:14,679
Speaker 2: of them, and it's called work ethic. Gilmour was once

1912
01:44:14,720 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 2: talking to we're driving around. He goes, you know what,

1913
01:44:17,040 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 2: because people think we like to just smoke a fat

1914
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:22,000
Speaker 2: one and play, because they have no idea what we do.

1915
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:23,960
Speaker 2: He goes, I go to the office every day, just

1916
01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:25,240
Speaker 2: like rap, just like you go to the office with

1917
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 2: your briefcase. My briefcase is my guitar case. I know

1918
01:44:28,439 --> 01:44:30,840
Speaker 2: what Pink Floyd is. I have to be the best

1919
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:35,280
Speaker 2: Pink Floyd I can be. Right. Keith Richards rehearses the

1920
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:36,800
Speaker 2: hell out of Rolling Stones. How do you think they're

1921
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:41,760
Speaker 2: so good? They just don't do that right? Bob Dylan's

1922
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:46,400
Speaker 2: touring endlessly. They're driven. These people are driven to do this.

1923
01:44:46,479 --> 01:44:48,800
Speaker 2: Bruce Springsteen, you read in my book, I've never seen

1924
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:50,559
Speaker 2: a guy work as hard as that guy. I have

1925
01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:53,360
Speaker 2: never seen anything like it. You go to a rehearsal.

1926
01:44:54,120 --> 01:44:57,000
Speaker 2: The guy's got a wire down the center of the arena.

1927
01:44:57,120 --> 01:45:00,599
Speaker 2: He's playing his guitar at the sound bowl while he's

1928
01:45:00,640 --> 01:45:04,120
Speaker 2: rehearsing the band for two hours and most soundchecks are

1929
01:45:04,120 --> 01:45:06,559
Speaker 2: twenty minutes. Does it sound good? Yeah, we're done. He's

1930
01:45:06,600 --> 01:45:09,880
Speaker 2: doing he's rehearsing the band endless rehearse, rehearse soundcheck. He's

1931
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:12,360
Speaker 2: twisting the knobs so he gets the best sound that

1932
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:15,280
Speaker 2: he can get. That he wants to know about that, Right.

1933
01:45:16,240 --> 01:45:19,240
Speaker 2: I once saw soundcheck that lasted three hours. Then they

1934
01:45:19,240 --> 01:45:20,960
Speaker 2: take a break, then they come out, they do a

1935
01:45:20,960 --> 01:45:23,920
Speaker 2: four hour show. Then after the four hour show, Bruce

1936
01:45:24,000 --> 01:45:25,880
Speaker 2: days and talks to everybody that wants to meet him.

1937
01:45:25,880 --> 01:45:27,920
Speaker 2: And he doesn't rush you, he'll talk to you. So

1938
01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:29,160
Speaker 2: if you're going to meet him, talk to him. You're

1939
01:45:29,160 --> 01:45:30,439
Speaker 2: going to wait in a long line because he's gonna

1940
01:45:30,439 --> 01:45:33,519
Speaker 2: take a second. Okay, guy goes home one o'clock, you know,

1941
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:37,000
Speaker 2: not home, but back, you know, back to his hotel room,

1942
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:39,880
Speaker 2: gets up the next day, does the same thing, the

1943
01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:45,160
Speaker 2: exact same thing, every single day. Right the work ethic.

1944
01:45:45,439 --> 01:45:50,720
Speaker 2: You can't get there and you can't stay there. I

1945
01:45:50,760 --> 01:45:55,560
Speaker 2: loved reading Keith's book. My favorite Rolling Stones record is

1946
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:58,400
Speaker 2: Exile on Main Street, and he writes about rip this Joint,

1947
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:01,320
Speaker 2: which is one of my all time favorite songs, and

1948
01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:03,639
Speaker 2: he writes about how hard it was to get it.

1949
01:46:04,240 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 2: You know, it's very fast and he had to it

1950
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:10,120
Speaker 2: was really hard to just get it. But I loved

1951
01:46:10,160 --> 01:46:13,920
Speaker 2: it because it was like, yeah, it's not easy. If

1952
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:17,599
Speaker 2: it was easy, everyone would do right. This is a

1953
01:46:17,640 --> 01:46:21,000
Speaker 2: work ethic, This is a love for the instrument. Right,

1954
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:23,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to take this instrument to another place. So

1955
01:46:23,840 --> 01:46:28,280
Speaker 2: I would say that the thread is being driven and

1956
01:46:28,360 --> 01:46:30,960
Speaker 2: the work ethic to be great.

1957
01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:36,839
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about choosing singles. Traditionally bands are worst

1958
01:46:37,080 --> 01:46:39,519
Speaker 1: or act or worst at choosing the singles. Tell me,

1959
01:46:39,560 --> 01:46:41,960
Speaker 1: since you did it for so long about choosing singles.

1960
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:51,679
Speaker 2: I think you know, after if you do this enough

1961
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:56,160
Speaker 2: and you love music enough, you get a you just

1962
01:46:56,200 --> 01:46:58,200
Speaker 2: get a sense of it. You just no, no, not

1963
01:46:58,240 --> 01:47:00,200
Speaker 2: everybody knows for sure. There's singles that we put out

1964
01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:02,000
Speaker 2: there we thought we're going to be hits, and they weren't.

1965
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:03,880
Speaker 2: There's album tracks that I picked that I thought we're

1966
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:05,880
Speaker 2: gonna you know, they would they would run out there,

1967
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:07,360
Speaker 2: you know, it would get airplane, they'd do great, but

1968
01:47:07,400 --> 01:47:10,479
Speaker 2: they wouldn't sell any records, so they don't do what

1969
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:13,280
Speaker 2: they're supposed to do. But you have ears like you're

1970
01:47:13,360 --> 01:47:16,160
Speaker 2: used to it, right, So I mean you can tell

1971
01:47:17,479 --> 01:47:19,840
Speaker 2: you can tell him thirty seconds, I can put any

1972
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:21,880
Speaker 2: music on right now. In thirty seconds, I can tell

1973
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:25,559
Speaker 2: you, you know, and maybe maybe I have to listen to

1974
01:47:25,560 --> 01:47:28,880
Speaker 2: thirty seconds more, just if it's something different. But you

1975
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:31,439
Speaker 2: can tell in thirty seconds. There are people who know.

1976
01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:33,760
Speaker 2: There are people who smart enough when they don't know

1977
01:47:34,120 --> 01:47:36,760
Speaker 2: tell you a great story. It's not in my book, Walter,

1978
01:47:36,760 --> 01:47:39,360
Speaker 2: you're getting the cough. Great president, right, he had to

1979
01:47:39,360 --> 01:47:41,960
Speaker 2: walk the line between being cool with the artists and

1980
01:47:42,400 --> 01:47:47,200
Speaker 2: talking to the CBS, you know, corporate people. Okay, get

1981
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:50,479
Speaker 2: a call from him from his office, Walter, Actually I

1982
01:47:50,479 --> 01:47:52,880
Speaker 2: think it was him. No, he called me. He goes listen,

1983
01:47:53,280 --> 01:47:55,280
Speaker 2: he goes, rap, I need you. I think it was

1984
01:47:55,360 --> 01:47:57,559
Speaker 2: John Faggot at the time. Great promotion man. So I

1985
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:00,120
Speaker 2: need you and John to come up here because Mick

1986
01:48:00,240 --> 01:48:01,960
Speaker 2: Jagger's up here and we have to pick a single.

1987
01:48:02,360 --> 01:48:04,479
Speaker 2: I'm not good at it. He's the president of a

1988
01:48:04,479 --> 01:48:06,960
Speaker 2: whole giant CBS. I'm not good at that stuff. But

1989
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:09,559
Speaker 2: you guys are so come up right. I thought that

1990
01:48:09,720 --> 01:48:11,360
Speaker 2: was one of the greatest phone calls I ever got.

1991
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:14,880
Speaker 2: This guy is Mega. Okay, this guy is CBS. This

1992
01:48:14,960 --> 01:48:18,519
Speaker 2: guy is pick anybody on CBS. He's Michael Jackson. I mean,

1993
01:48:18,520 --> 01:48:21,040
Speaker 2: this guy's barbarous straw just like everything. I'm not good

1994
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:23,120
Speaker 2: at picking singles. He knows he's not good at that.

1995
01:48:23,360 --> 01:48:25,840
Speaker 2: He knows he's good at negotiating for artists and being

1996
01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:28,160
Speaker 2: their buddy and making it right. Fine, Me and John

1997
01:48:28,200 --> 01:48:30,360
Speaker 2: go up with Mick. Hey, Mick, how you doing. We

1998
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:33,200
Speaker 2: listen to a few things and we go I think

1999
01:48:33,200 --> 01:48:34,840
Speaker 2: it's this one, and Mick goes, yeah, yeah, I think

2000
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:36,320
Speaker 2: so too. I think that's the I think we have

2001
01:48:36,360 --> 01:48:39,639
Speaker 2: a chance with that. And notice, Mick Jagger, you want

2002
01:48:39,640 --> 01:48:43,400
Speaker 2: to talk about a guy who knows the business. Mick Jagger. Yes,

2003
01:48:43,720 --> 01:48:46,759
Speaker 2: I think we have a chance with that quote Mick Jagger,

2004
01:48:46,760 --> 01:48:49,120
Speaker 2: I think we have a chance with that because he knows.

2005
01:48:49,240 --> 01:48:51,559
Speaker 2: It's all a chance. He knows because he's been doing

2006
01:48:51,600 --> 01:48:54,840
Speaker 2: it his whole life. Right. Yeah, you hang around guys

2007
01:48:54,880 --> 01:48:58,280
Speaker 2: like that, you'll learn stuff from guys like that. Tony Bennett.

2008
01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:01,160
Speaker 2: I learned so much from Tony Bennett. They'll teach you

2009
01:49:01,280 --> 01:49:03,720
Speaker 2: things that you don't know because they're older than you,

2010
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:06,280
Speaker 2: and they got there before you, and they've been around

2011
01:49:06,280 --> 01:49:09,519
Speaker 2: the block, you know, and you learn from listening to them.

2012
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:15,680
Speaker 1: Okay, some of these acts were already stars before you

2013
01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:19,800
Speaker 1: got there, Like Bob Dylan, there are other acts that

2014
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:24,720
Speaker 1: you live through it. Okay, Aerosmith, Billy Joel. If you

2015
01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:28,559
Speaker 1: look at Billy Joey, forget the album before starts off

2016
01:49:28,600 --> 01:49:33,080
Speaker 1: the piano man, Gigantic Kit kind of goes into the wilderness.

2017
01:49:33,400 --> 01:49:39,759
Speaker 1: Worked with Phil Ramone, Gigantic Okay. Bruce Springsteen second album.

2018
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:44,200
Speaker 1: They get the recording right, he's working everywhere. Hasn't quite

2019
01:49:44,240 --> 01:49:48,120
Speaker 1: broken through from the inside. Did you just know they

2020
01:49:48,120 --> 01:49:49,880
Speaker 1: were going to hit a certain level or do you

2021
01:49:49,920 --> 01:49:50,680
Speaker 1: really never know?

2022
01:49:53,560 --> 01:49:56,880
Speaker 2: Some you don't know and some you have a feeling for.

2023
01:49:57,720 --> 01:50:01,639
Speaker 2: And I think for me, it's always when you see

2024
01:50:01,640 --> 01:50:06,479
Speaker 2: the band live. When you see that artist or band live,

2025
01:50:07,439 --> 01:50:12,720
Speaker 2: you'll know it's a knowing. I heard Bruce's first record,

2026
01:50:13,080 --> 01:50:14,920
Speaker 2: it was I really liked it. I went, hey, this

2027
01:50:14,920 --> 01:50:17,160
Speaker 2: guy's really good. He's got something to say. It's a

2028
01:50:17,160 --> 01:50:19,599
Speaker 2: little Dylan s but that's okay. He's you know, he's

2029
01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:22,200
Speaker 2: not copying Bob, He's I can just tell he's an influence.

2030
01:50:22,720 --> 01:50:25,240
Speaker 2: But until I saw Bruce live, I didn't know. When

2031
01:50:25,280 --> 01:50:27,479
Speaker 2: I saw Bruce live at the Troubadour, I was like,

2032
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:30,840
Speaker 2: holy fuck, it's the next big thing. When I saw

2033
01:50:30,840 --> 01:50:33,040
Speaker 2: Elton John. It's not even on my act or not

2034
01:50:33,080 --> 01:50:35,599
Speaker 2: even on my label, right, I saw Elton John. Somebody

2035
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:36,960
Speaker 2: told me this is going to be the next big thing.

2036
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:43,320
Speaker 2: They were right. I went, holy shit. Psychedelic Furs got

2037
01:50:43,360 --> 01:50:45,040
Speaker 2: their record. I love their record, But when I saw

2038
01:50:45,120 --> 01:50:47,960
Speaker 2: him live, I was like, oh my god. And the

2039
01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:50,559
Speaker 2: biggest one was Alis in Chains. Because, as I write

2040
01:50:50,560 --> 01:50:54,440
Speaker 2: in the book, that music for me didn't I was discordant.

2041
01:50:54,439 --> 01:50:56,240
Speaker 2: I did. I didn't, you know, I'm not ashamed to

2042
01:50:56,280 --> 01:50:58,280
Speaker 2: say I just didn't understand it. I mean, I'm used

2043
01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:01,040
Speaker 2: to Van Halen, right, I'm used to you know, Eric Clapton.

2044
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:04,639
Speaker 2: I'm you know, these are the records I'm promoting Rolling Stones.

2045
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:08,760
Speaker 2: This is music is so different sounding. But I saw

2046
01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:13,840
Speaker 2: him live in New York, Bob. I saw the next

2047
01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:17,479
Speaker 2: led Zeppelin, the future, you know. I saw that everything

2048
01:51:17,479 --> 01:51:19,960
Speaker 2: that came after them, which is now called grunge. Who

2049
01:51:20,000 --> 01:51:21,719
Speaker 2: cares what you call it, but you know you're talking,

2050
01:51:21,760 --> 01:51:25,160
Speaker 2: you're talking pearl Jam. Nirvana Alice was the first one

2051
01:51:25,240 --> 01:51:28,439
Speaker 2: out of the gate. Not the first one out of

2052
01:51:28,439 --> 01:51:29,880
Speaker 2: the gate, because there was the BlimE. There's some other

2053
01:51:29,920 --> 01:51:33,160
Speaker 2: really great Seattle bands, but they were the first band,

2054
01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:36,680
Speaker 2: you know, you know, with my help to get to

2055
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:39,400
Speaker 2: the main stream, Okay, to to really be to be

2056
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:45,320
Speaker 2: heard by the mainstream public. Okay. I saw them, and

2057
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:49,680
Speaker 2: I mean it rocked me to my core. And as

2058
01:51:49,680 --> 01:51:51,360
Speaker 2: you read in the book, I was having a tough

2059
01:51:51,400 --> 01:51:53,800
Speaker 2: time because we had some music that just wasn't made

2060
01:51:53,800 --> 01:51:55,880
Speaker 2: for rock radio, and I thought I was losing my touch.

2061
01:51:56,520 --> 01:51:58,479
Speaker 2: I was. I couldn't sleep all night. I was like,

2062
01:51:58,479 --> 01:52:00,800
Speaker 2: oh my god, I just saw it and it's ours,

2063
01:52:00,840 --> 01:52:03,559
Speaker 2: like we have Alice in chains. I'm going to go

2064
01:52:03,600 --> 01:52:05,800
Speaker 2: out and I'm going to do this and I'm going

2065
01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:08,400
Speaker 2: to make this happen, and it's going to fucking blow

2066
01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:11,799
Speaker 2: people's minds, you know. But from the from the record,

2067
01:52:12,680 --> 01:52:14,960
Speaker 2: not because it was new to me, which you read

2068
01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:16,519
Speaker 2: in the book, it was new to radio that nobody

2069
01:52:16,560 --> 01:52:18,679
Speaker 2: wanted to play it because they didn't it was odd.

2070
01:52:19,080 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 2: It's an odd sound. The Seattle sound is completely different.

2071
01:52:21,920 --> 01:52:24,000
Speaker 2: They didn't want to know about it. So it took

2072
01:52:24,040 --> 01:52:27,439
Speaker 2: some really strong effort, you know, to get that off.

2073
01:52:27,479 --> 01:52:31,240
Speaker 2: But I think if you see someone live, you'll know,

2074
01:52:32,040 --> 01:52:36,559
Speaker 2: you just know, you know, And sometimes you think you

2075
01:52:36,600 --> 01:52:38,880
Speaker 2: got one by the tail and it just doesn't happen,

2076
01:52:39,000 --> 01:52:42,280
Speaker 2: and you I don't know why. I had a I

2077
01:52:42,280 --> 01:52:45,439
Speaker 2: had a band called Human Radio Man. I thought they

2078
01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:48,360
Speaker 2: were fantastic, they made a fantastic album. I saw them live.

2079
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:52,839
Speaker 2: Just didn't resonate, just just you know, just just didn't resonate.

2080
01:52:53,439 --> 01:52:57,120
Speaker 2: Lover boy. Okay, you're reading the book. I promoted it

2081
01:52:57,320 --> 01:52:59,559
Speaker 2: and then as soon as I you know, Galla calms,

2082
01:52:59,600 --> 01:53:01,720
Speaker 2: you got to hear it like I'm on fire, you know,

2083
01:53:01,880 --> 01:53:05,320
Speaker 2: to make this thing happen. I go see them live,

2084
01:53:05,720 --> 01:53:09,559
Speaker 2: same thing, Holy fuck. And you know, I know they're

2085
01:53:09,600 --> 01:53:13,599
Speaker 2: like a sort of rock pop act. Doesn't matter their

2086
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:17,880
Speaker 2: rhythm section, okay, their drummer, they're bass player, like you know,

2087
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:21,920
Speaker 2: they were you know, Reno's a great front man and

2088
01:53:22,280 --> 01:53:24,759
Speaker 2: you know, you know, and Pauldine's a great guitar players.

2089
01:53:24,760 --> 01:53:27,000
Speaker 2: But this was a real band. This was a band

2090
01:53:27,000 --> 01:53:31,120
Speaker 2: that was gonna go go long right. It was like,

2091
01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:33,960
Speaker 2: oh no, it's the whole band, It's Matt Fornett. It's

2092
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:37,439
Speaker 2: like these guys, like, these guys are making this thing work.

2093
01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:40,519
Speaker 2: And then when we saw that, we were like, holy shit,

2094
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:42,360
Speaker 2: we have a tiger by the tail. Okay.

2095
01:53:42,479 --> 01:53:47,879
Speaker 1: Historically, the Australian bands are the best live bands. Because

2096
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:50,880
Speaker 1: there's a limited amount of money in the marketplace, they

2097
01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:53,439
Speaker 1: have to, you know, hit the same places again and again.

2098
01:53:54,280 --> 01:53:58,280
Speaker 1: Midnight Oil was on Columbia. What was your experience with

2099
01:53:58,360 --> 01:53:59,080
Speaker 1: Midnight Oil?

2100
01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:03,360
Speaker 2: Fantastic? Let me ask you a question, do you really

2101
01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:05,840
Speaker 2: think that's true? You think Australian bounds are the best

2102
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:06,240
Speaker 2: life bounds?

2103
01:54:06,240 --> 01:54:11,919
Speaker 1: Because this is like we're talking old stories. I remember

2104
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:15,320
Speaker 1: I went to the Troubadour for an underplay within Excess

2105
01:54:16,160 --> 01:54:19,080
Speaker 1: and Sean Coakley said that he was working at Arista. No,

2106
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:21,920
Speaker 1: that was before he's working at arist or whatever, and

2107
01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:26,599
Speaker 1: I thought about it, ac DC, et cetera. Listen, if

2108
01:54:26,640 --> 01:54:30,360
Speaker 1: you've been to Australia, first and foremost, there's only so

2109
01:54:30,400 --> 01:54:33,360
Speaker 1: many people there, so you can't make an incredible amount

2110
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:36,120
Speaker 1: of money living in Australia. And then there are people

2111
01:54:36,280 --> 01:54:38,000
Speaker 1: who say, well, you know, I like being a big

2112
01:54:38,040 --> 01:54:42,280
Speaker 1: fish in a small pond. And there are a certain

2113
01:54:42,480 --> 01:54:45,640
Speaker 1: number of cities there's just we could probably name them

2114
01:54:45,680 --> 01:54:48,440
Speaker 1: and we don't even live there. So to stay alive

2115
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:50,400
Speaker 1: you have to play.

2116
01:54:50,640 --> 01:54:54,360
Speaker 2: No you speak. But I wonder if it's more like

2117
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:57,400
Speaker 2: the working class thing, like to take Judus priest when

2118
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:00,280
Speaker 2: I met them. Remember talking to Glenn Tipton. He was

2119
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:03,240
Speaker 2: an okay guitar player in the beginning with they're just

2120
01:55:03,280 --> 01:55:07,160
Speaker 2: starting out and he got great, right. But I remember

2121
01:55:07,240 --> 01:55:09,440
Speaker 2: him talking to me. He said, you know, I think

2122
01:55:09,480 --> 01:55:12,280
Speaker 2: it was from Birmingham, so you know, I'm from this

2123
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:16,200
Speaker 2: industrial how's this. I'm from this industrial part of England

2124
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:20,280
Speaker 2: and I'm trying this to see if this works to

2125
01:55:20,360 --> 01:55:23,000
Speaker 2: get me out of there. Okay. He was in judis

2126
01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:26,520
Speaker 2: Priest by necessity, and I wonder if it's because it

2127
01:55:26,640 --> 01:55:31,400
Speaker 2: takes them a hard long time. I don't know. Maybe

2128
01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:33,800
Speaker 2: it's Bruce Springsteen's worth taking because he's a blue collar

2129
01:55:33,880 --> 01:55:37,400
Speaker 2: kid from like I don't know. I don't know.

2130
01:55:37,600 --> 01:55:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm Malcolm Gladwell because he's at certain things he has said.

2131
01:55:42,520 --> 01:55:45,240
Speaker 1: But if you go back to the ten thousand hour rule,

2132
01:55:45,280 --> 01:55:51,040
Speaker 1: if people don't understand, it's ten thousand hours of hard practice.

2133
01:55:51,120 --> 01:55:53,600
Speaker 1: I always using the example he's sky ten thousand hours

2134
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:55,280
Speaker 1: on the bunny slope. You're not going to be a

2135
01:55:55,320 --> 01:55:58,600
Speaker 1: world class gear. But one of the examples he uses

2136
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:01,640
Speaker 1: the Beatles in Hamburg. I had not discussed that with

2137
01:56:01,640 --> 01:56:04,960
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney, not that he's my best friend, but I

2138
01:56:05,160 --> 01:56:10,680
Speaker 1: did discuss Geezer, Butler playing in Switzerland, etc. There was

2139
01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:14,040
Speaker 1: no money. They were playing night after night. No one

2140
01:56:14,200 --> 01:56:18,120
Speaker 1: was listening. You really learn your chops. I mean, this

2141
01:56:18,240 --> 01:56:22,440
Speaker 1: is let's go somewhere else, Sam Smith, Okay, this is

2142
01:56:22,440 --> 01:56:26,280
Speaker 1: something we never saw in our business. You're playing arenas

2143
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:30,680
Speaker 1: on the first tour. You know, used to be at

2144
01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:34,400
Speaker 1: the record company had a subsidized club tour. Then maybe

2145
01:56:34,440 --> 01:56:36,959
Speaker 1: open up for somebody in theaters. Then maybe you headlined

2146
01:56:37,000 --> 01:56:41,240
Speaker 1: in theaters. So everybody is so hungry. A lot of

2147
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:43,760
Speaker 1: these bands, you say, they look like he came from nowhere,

2148
01:56:43,800 --> 01:56:45,640
Speaker 1: but you went to see him and you're, holy fuck,

2149
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:46,920
Speaker 1: these guys are incredible.

2150
01:56:48,440 --> 01:56:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well because of that work ethic, they had to

2151
01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:55,880
Speaker 2: play clubs and if it didn't happen, I mean, look

2152
01:56:56,480 --> 01:56:59,040
Speaker 2: look at the early Rolling Stones reels and you see

2153
01:56:59,080 --> 01:57:03,120
Speaker 2: Mick he's today he's just holding a mic like this, right,

2154
01:57:03,160 --> 01:57:05,840
Speaker 2: He's he's not even looking left, he's not even looking right.

2155
01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:08,120
Speaker 2: He had to learn how to be a front man.

2156
01:57:09,120 --> 01:57:12,480
Speaker 2: He studied, Bruce Springsteen studied who do you think, they

2157
01:57:12,480 --> 01:57:16,960
Speaker 2: studied James Brown? Right like they they realized they had

2158
01:57:16,960 --> 01:57:21,280
Speaker 2: to be the work to get there. Is is How

2159
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:23,280
Speaker 2: do I be better at this? How can I make

2160
01:57:23,360 --> 01:57:25,919
Speaker 2: this happen? This is like this work ethic that I'm

2161
01:57:26,000 --> 01:57:30,440
Speaker 2: talking about. You know, look, you know Midnight Oil they

2162
01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:33,960
Speaker 2: come from that cloth. I loved min On Oil. We

2163
01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:38,200
Speaker 2: were great friends. I'm a surfer right there, surf you

2164
01:57:38,240 --> 01:57:40,600
Speaker 2: know rap combed dolls. You know you've got to come.

2165
01:57:40,840 --> 01:57:43,280
Speaker 2: You know, don underlon have a surf right They would

2166
01:57:43,320 --> 01:57:46,680
Speaker 2: send me wetsuits. I had Midnight Oil wetsuits. They were

2167
01:57:46,760 --> 01:57:52,640
Speaker 2: purple with shars whose green Midnight Oil. They're great people.

2168
01:57:52,920 --> 01:57:56,200
Speaker 2: I'll tell you about the Australian bands. There's no ego.

2169
01:57:57,680 --> 01:58:00,000
Speaker 2: Men at work, there's no ego. Doesn't matter how big

2170
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:03,200
Speaker 2: they get. I don't know why. They just don't have

2171
01:58:03,280 --> 01:58:08,120
Speaker 2: an ego. They just are thankful. I you know nothing,

2172
01:58:08,480 --> 01:58:10,960
Speaker 2: just hey, tell me where to be. We're working hard.

2173
01:58:12,360 --> 01:58:14,760
Speaker 2: And the Midnight Oil guys, oh my god, one of

2174
01:58:14,760 --> 01:58:17,440
Speaker 2: the greatest, greatest drummers in the world. I mean, what

2175
01:58:17,560 --> 01:58:22,760
Speaker 2: a band, you know, and they were great. I had

2176
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:24,000
Speaker 2: so much fun with those guys.

2177
01:58:24,320 --> 01:58:27,400
Speaker 1: Let's talk about surfing. We've talked surfing for thirty years.

2178
01:58:28,080 --> 01:58:29,920
Speaker 2: You want to talk about something good.

2179
01:58:29,960 --> 01:58:32,320
Speaker 1: A surfer? Are you and how often do you go.

2180
01:58:36,760 --> 01:58:39,360
Speaker 2: There is a saying and surfing and a lot of

2181
01:58:39,360 --> 01:58:43,520
Speaker 2: people take credit for it. And the saying is that

2182
01:58:43,640 --> 01:58:49,360
Speaker 2: the best surfer is the person who's having the most fun. Okay,

2183
01:58:49,680 --> 01:58:54,600
Speaker 2: because it is. It's a spiritual thing. But people don't

2184
01:58:54,640 --> 01:58:58,480
Speaker 2: understand it's not just a sport. Okay, when you ride

2185
01:58:58,520 --> 01:59:01,040
Speaker 2: a wave, you because I'm part of I'm just gonna

2186
01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:03,960
Speaker 2: sound hipie tipity, but here's it's the truth. When you

2187
01:59:04,080 --> 01:59:08,160
Speaker 2: ride a wave, unlike skiing, like you're a big time skier. Okay,

2188
01:59:08,200 --> 01:59:10,920
Speaker 2: so you're well, I'm gonna ask you a question. I'm

2189
01:59:10,920 --> 01:59:12,320
Speaker 2: gonna tell you what I feel, and you tell me

2190
01:59:12,320 --> 01:59:15,040
Speaker 2: what you feel, Okay, because I because I tried skiing

2191
01:59:15,080 --> 01:59:19,880
Speaker 2: once and I almost killed myself. Okay, So so okay.

2192
01:59:20,080 --> 01:59:24,440
Speaker 2: So when you're surfing, you are riding a wave, and

2193
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:27,280
Speaker 2: so you begin to feel part of the Earth's energy.

2194
01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:32,440
Speaker 2: You you feel part of the planet. Every wave is different,

2195
01:59:32,800 --> 01:59:35,680
Speaker 2: it's a dance. You're looking at the wave. How is

2196
01:59:35,720 --> 01:59:38,080
Speaker 2: it gonna? Is it gonna hike up? Am I gonna

2197
01:59:38,080 --> 01:59:39,800
Speaker 2: have to couple take take a couple of steps on

2198
01:59:39,840 --> 01:59:41,920
Speaker 2: the board to gain speed? Am I gonna have to

2199
01:59:41,920 --> 01:59:44,080
Speaker 2: do a cutback and do a turn? Left to get around?

2200
01:59:44,240 --> 01:59:48,800
Speaker 2: How am I negotiating my dance partner? Okay, if you

2201
01:59:49,040 --> 01:59:51,480
Speaker 2: do this for an hour, an hour and a half,

2202
01:59:51,560 --> 01:59:55,280
Speaker 2: which is your general surf sessions an hour and a half. Right, Uh,

2203
01:59:55,320 --> 01:59:57,760
Speaker 2: when you come in to the beach, you are zend out.

2204
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:00,280
Speaker 2: You are totally zend out. I don't don't know if

2205
02:00:00,320 --> 02:00:02,320
Speaker 2: it's from the swoop and glide. I don't know if

2206
02:00:02,360 --> 02:00:05,280
Speaker 2: it's from all the negative ions because you're in the ocean.

2207
02:00:06,200 --> 02:00:07,160
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the sun.

2208
02:00:07,200 --> 02:00:07,640
Speaker 1: I don't know.

2209
02:00:08,600 --> 02:00:10,840
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is just sitting on

2210
02:00:10,880 --> 02:00:14,400
Speaker 2: the board bob bobbing with the planet, like you're in

2211
02:00:14,520 --> 02:00:19,680
Speaker 2: tune to the planet. I was never the greatest surfer

2212
02:00:19,680 --> 02:00:23,480
Speaker 2: in the world. I would say, I'm good. I can

2213
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:25,760
Speaker 2: do a cutback, I can walk up the board. I

2214
02:00:25,800 --> 02:00:28,440
Speaker 2: can do this. You know. Can I hang ten? No?

2215
02:00:29,200 --> 02:00:31,600
Speaker 2: I can hang five. Cheater five. You walk up and

2216
02:00:31,640 --> 02:00:34,160
Speaker 2: you I ride longboards. I have to tell people there's

2217
02:00:34,160 --> 02:00:36,080
Speaker 2: two kinds of surfboards. There's long boards, which I grew

2218
02:00:36,160 --> 02:00:38,280
Speaker 2: up with, and short boards, which is like a little

2219
02:00:38,280 --> 02:00:40,920
Speaker 2: potato chip. And those guys are doing aerials right, they're

2220
02:00:40,960 --> 02:00:42,480
Speaker 2: doing you shoot out of the way. If you do

2221
02:00:42,520 --> 02:00:44,800
Speaker 2: an aerial of three sixty you come back down. It's

2222
02:00:44,840 --> 02:00:47,920
Speaker 2: like circus tricks. I tried it. I didn't like it

2223
02:00:47,960 --> 02:00:50,880
Speaker 2: wasn't It wasn't for me. So I'm still a longboard writer.

2224
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:53,200
Speaker 2: It's elegant. It's a swoop and glide. I'm a swooping

2225
02:00:53,200 --> 02:00:56,240
Speaker 2: glide guy. You know what. I've surfed big waves not

2226
02:00:56,360 --> 02:00:59,120
Speaker 2: my thing. Mickey Door one of the greatest surfers in

2227
02:00:59,160 --> 02:01:02,560
Speaker 2: the world. In his book, he says, I'm I can.

2228
02:01:02,600 --> 02:01:06,120
Speaker 2: I'm a confessed three to four foot swoop and glide guy.

2229
02:01:06,680 --> 02:01:08,600
Speaker 2: I surf those big waves in a way because I

2230
02:01:08,640 --> 02:01:11,560
Speaker 2: had to turn my stripes. I don't like it, you know.

2231
02:01:13,480 --> 02:01:15,640
Speaker 2: You know it's a different kind of thrill ride. You

2232
02:01:15,680 --> 02:01:18,120
Speaker 2: ride a twenty foot wave, twenty five foot wave. You

2233
02:01:18,160 --> 02:01:19,880
Speaker 2: got to get to point A to point B without

2234
02:01:19,880 --> 02:01:23,280
Speaker 2: getting killed. Okay, that's that's it. And it's yeah, it's

2235
02:01:23,280 --> 02:01:27,200
Speaker 2: exhilarating your heart's and your chest. I've done it. That's

2236
02:01:27,240 --> 02:01:32,800
Speaker 2: not fun for me. Swoop and glide, you know, it's

2237
02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:34,200
Speaker 2: it's like you're in a jam session.

2238
02:01:34,200 --> 02:01:34,320
Speaker 1: Man.

2239
02:01:34,440 --> 02:01:38,680
Speaker 2: You just think you're lost. You just lost. And I

2240
02:01:38,800 --> 02:01:41,560
Speaker 2: go as often as I can. I live on the

2241
02:01:41,600 --> 02:01:42,960
Speaker 2: East Coast, so I'm not one of these guys that

2242
02:01:43,000 --> 02:01:44,560
Speaker 2: serves in the winter. There are people that put on

2243
02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:47,640
Speaker 2: seven mil wet suits and gloves, and I'm not that guy.

2244
02:01:47,720 --> 02:01:49,920
Speaker 2: You know, that's not fun. You know I tried it once.

2245
02:01:49,960 --> 02:01:52,040
Speaker 2: It's like, why am I doing this? I can't even

2246
02:01:52,040 --> 02:01:54,040
Speaker 2: feel the ocean. I feel like I'm riding on ball bearings.

2247
02:01:54,080 --> 02:01:56,960
Speaker 2: Might as well be on a skateboard, right. But I

2248
02:01:57,080 --> 02:02:00,160
Speaker 2: but in the summer, I surf on Long Island, Live

2249
02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:02,320
Speaker 2: on Long Island. I surf in Long Beach, go to Montauk,

2250
02:02:03,240 --> 02:02:04,880
Speaker 2: which is a reef break, which is kind of like

2251
02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:07,720
Speaker 2: a California wave. And I make sure that I go

2252
02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:10,400
Speaker 2: to California at least once or twice a year because

2253
02:02:10,400 --> 02:02:12,160
Speaker 2: that's where the best surf is. And I have boards

2254
02:02:12,200 --> 02:02:17,920
Speaker 2: in California, so that's heaven because those surf breaks. Like

2255
02:02:17,960 --> 02:02:20,040
Speaker 2: people always want to talk about Hawaii in this place

2256
02:02:20,080 --> 02:02:22,080
Speaker 2: and that I have a friendly traveling well, I'm going

2257
02:02:22,080 --> 02:02:24,880
Speaker 2: to Costa Rica. Fine, go to Costa Rica. You ain't

2258
02:02:24,880 --> 02:02:27,680
Speaker 2: gonna find better waves than in California. It's the Disneyland

2259
02:02:27,680 --> 02:02:30,200
Speaker 2: of surf, and it's every kind of break you want,

2260
02:02:30,440 --> 02:02:35,000
Speaker 2: you know, from from up north to down south. Ventura

2261
02:02:35,080 --> 02:02:39,520
Speaker 2: County Line, long green, beautiful waves, glassy because there's all

2262
02:02:39,520 --> 02:02:42,520
Speaker 2: these culp beds. You're like riding on a mirror Malibu

2263
02:02:42,600 --> 02:02:48,400
Speaker 2: Point Break. Go down South Huntington. Forget Huntington, go you know,

2264
02:02:48,480 --> 02:02:52,560
Speaker 2: to past Lagoon to beach. I love down South Encinitas.

2265
02:02:52,760 --> 02:02:55,840
Speaker 2: There's a place called Swami's Pipes is my favorite break.

2266
02:02:55,880 --> 02:03:00,440
Speaker 2: Right below Swami's. You're sitting out in pristine, beautiful water

2267
02:03:00,520 --> 02:03:02,600
Speaker 2: and the waves because there's like reefs out there's like

2268
02:03:02,680 --> 02:03:05,520
Speaker 2: rock reefs right, so the waves are perfectly shaped so

2269
02:03:05,560 --> 02:03:08,360
Speaker 2: they're breaking behind you so you can ride the wave

2270
02:03:08,400 --> 02:03:10,640
Speaker 2: and not worry about the waves, like you know, breaking

2271
02:03:10,720 --> 02:03:12,840
Speaker 2: in front of you. And all the way up and

2272
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:16,240
Speaker 2: down the coast of California. It's the best surf there is.

2273
02:03:16,320 --> 02:03:20,920
Speaker 2: So I plan every year to at least plan a

2274
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:25,040
Speaker 2: surf trip in July, you know, or August. Both of

2275
02:03:25,080 --> 02:03:28,120
Speaker 2: my sons surf. I have a granddaughter who surfs. Now

2276
02:03:29,040 --> 02:03:31,480
Speaker 2: you want to talk about mind blowing, Bob, I tell

2277
02:03:31,520 --> 02:03:36,680
Speaker 2: my kids to surf. I surf this place Swamis when

2278
02:03:36,680 --> 02:03:39,400
Speaker 2: I was eighteen. I remember, I'm eighteen years old and

2279
02:03:39,400 --> 02:03:42,040
Speaker 2: I'm sitting out at Swami's. I'm going I wonder if

2280
02:03:42,040 --> 02:03:44,240
Speaker 2: I'll ever get married. I wonder if I ever get

2281
02:03:44,240 --> 02:03:46,160
Speaker 2: married with five kids, And I wonder if I have kids,

2282
02:03:46,480 --> 02:03:49,840
Speaker 2: would they ever serf? And so when my kids got

2283
02:03:49,840 --> 02:03:51,000
Speaker 2: older and I wanted to take them to all my

2284
02:03:51,040 --> 02:03:54,000
Speaker 2: favorite surf breaks, I took them to Swamis Paddle Out.

2285
02:03:54,240 --> 02:03:57,320
Speaker 2: I'm sitting in the exact same spot. I'm flashed back

2286
02:03:57,320 --> 02:04:01,680
Speaker 2: to eighteen years old. Same cliffs, same waves, same palm trees,

2287
02:04:01,880 --> 02:04:04,280
Speaker 2: clientele has changed, but it's all the same. And I'm

2288
02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:07,840
Speaker 2: thinking about, man, I was just sitting here and it

2289
02:04:07,880 --> 02:04:11,680
Speaker 2: wasn't that long ago, and I wondered, you know, if

2290
02:04:11,720 --> 02:04:13,920
Speaker 2: any of this would happen. And as I'm thinking this,

2291
02:04:14,800 --> 02:04:17,800
Speaker 2: my oldest son paddles by, Hey Dad, how you doing?

2292
02:04:18,480 --> 02:04:21,160
Speaker 2: And then my other son to my right paddles by, Hey, pops,

2293
02:04:21,160 --> 02:04:24,520
Speaker 2: what's going on? And I'm having one of those moments,

2294
02:04:24,760 --> 02:04:27,080
Speaker 2: you know, like like like like the Field of Dreams moments,

2295
02:04:27,120 --> 02:04:28,600
Speaker 2: like the fuck you want to have a cat Like

2296
02:04:28,640 --> 02:04:30,760
Speaker 2: every time I watched that movie, I tell myself, you're

2297
02:04:30,760 --> 02:04:32,960
Speaker 2: not gonna cry, You're not gonna cry, don't cry, And

2298
02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:34,840
Speaker 2: every time I see that scene, I fucking lose it.

2299
02:04:35,440 --> 02:04:37,640
Speaker 2: And I was having one of those moments, right, and

2300
02:04:37,680 --> 02:04:40,200
Speaker 2: I just looked up. I'm pretty spiritual gym me. I

2301
02:04:40,240 --> 02:04:42,880
Speaker 2: just looked up and said thanks, because you know how

2302
02:04:42,920 --> 02:04:44,840
Speaker 2: much fun is this with my kids? Okay, Now I

2303
02:04:44,880 --> 02:04:49,040
Speaker 2: have a fourteen year old granddaughter and last summer, I'm

2304
02:04:49,080 --> 02:04:51,200
Speaker 2: out at my favorite break which is just south of

2305
02:04:51,200 --> 02:04:54,560
Speaker 2: Swambia's with just pipes. It's a great wave and she

2306
02:04:54,720 --> 02:04:57,440
Speaker 2: and she calls me, well, I'm Jeep. I'm Grandpa Paul,

2307
02:04:57,480 --> 02:05:02,480
Speaker 2: so I'm GP, and Jeeps for short, Hey jeeves, start paddling.

2308
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:06,440
Speaker 2: We're taking this one in together and im and I'm going,

2309
02:05:07,600 --> 02:05:11,440
Speaker 2: oh my god. Now there's a granddaughter. And she gets it,

2310
02:05:11,480 --> 02:05:14,040
Speaker 2: like she gets it's in her, like the surfing thing,

2311
02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:17,040
Speaker 2: like it's in her right, and I start paddling, and

2312
02:05:17,080 --> 02:05:19,680
Speaker 2: again I look up and I'm just like overwhelmed. I'm

2313
02:05:19,760 --> 02:05:23,040
Speaker 2: just like thanks, you know, thanks for her, and thanks

2314
02:05:23,400 --> 02:05:27,720
Speaker 2: for letting her understand what surfing is. So I go

2315
02:05:27,800 --> 02:05:29,600
Speaker 2: as often, honestly, I go as often as I can.

2316
02:05:29,640 --> 02:05:32,440
Speaker 2: And look, Bob, I'm getting older. Every summer I go out,

2317
02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:35,120
Speaker 2: I paddle out, see if I can do it, and

2318
02:05:35,160 --> 02:05:36,720
Speaker 2: I do it, and I step up, you know, and

2319
02:05:36,960 --> 02:05:39,560
Speaker 2: then when I get into the beach. I look up

2320
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:42,680
Speaker 2: to the Evans and I thank the man above. Thanks,

2321
02:05:43,160 --> 02:05:45,400
Speaker 2: I got another year. I'm going to do this another year.

2322
02:05:46,440 --> 02:05:50,160
Speaker 2: My dream, well, my dream was to surf until eighty

2323
02:05:50,760 --> 02:05:52,240
Speaker 2: only because I met a guy who was eighty one

2324
02:05:52,240 --> 02:05:53,560
Speaker 2: and he was surfing and he said, you can do it.

2325
02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:57,120
Speaker 2: You can do it. But now I have a new grandson.

2326
02:05:57,360 --> 02:05:59,240
Speaker 2: He's only a year old, and I'm like, oh shit,

2327
02:05:59,400 --> 02:06:01,800
Speaker 2: now I got to push the Now, I gotta push

2328
02:06:01,800 --> 02:06:03,520
Speaker 2: the envelope. I need to be there for him, like

2329
02:06:03,520 --> 02:06:05,520
Speaker 2: when he's like at least five or six. I just

2330
02:06:05,520 --> 02:06:07,800
Speaker 2: want to paddle out with his little dude. Right, So

2331
02:06:08,320 --> 02:06:10,360
Speaker 2: I go as often as I can. But let me

2332
02:06:10,440 --> 02:06:12,600
Speaker 2: ask you a question. And this because I want to

2333
02:06:12,640 --> 02:06:15,480
Speaker 2: know you're an avid skier. I'm always reading about your

2334
02:06:15,480 --> 02:06:18,720
Speaker 2: ski trips. When you ski, is it like, okay? I

2335
02:06:18,800 --> 02:06:20,400
Speaker 2: just talked to you about like what surfing feels like.

2336
02:06:20,360 --> 02:06:21,320
Speaker 3: Okay, the same.

2337
02:06:21,640 --> 02:06:24,160
Speaker 1: Let's start from the beginning. You were talking about being

2338
02:06:24,280 --> 02:06:28,120
Speaker 1: zen'd out the water wears you out. I remember playing

2339
02:06:28,160 --> 02:06:30,440
Speaker 1: Little League and the guy said you can't go swimming

2340
02:06:30,560 --> 02:06:33,520
Speaker 1: that day. I remember just running around in like a

2341
02:06:33,960 --> 02:06:38,400
Speaker 1: you know, twelve inches of water and it made a difference, okay,

2342
02:06:39,000 --> 02:06:44,320
Speaker 1: And there is the zen aspect in terms of skiing.

2343
02:06:44,400 --> 02:06:46,200
Speaker 1: The way I put it is, I don't know if

2344
02:06:46,240 --> 02:06:51,400
Speaker 1: you know this, saw my bad company, simple man. It's

2345
02:06:51,480 --> 02:06:54,400
Speaker 1: running with the pack and it's great, and you know it.

2346
02:06:55,120 --> 02:06:58,080
Speaker 1: Freedom is the only thing that means a damn to me.

2347
02:06:58,240 --> 02:07:01,880
Speaker 1: It's relatively slow swall and I remember standing at when

2348
02:07:01,880 --> 02:07:04,640
Speaker 1: I used to live in Utah, standing in snowbird. You're

2349
02:07:04,720 --> 02:07:08,880
Speaker 1: there in the elements. It's just you in the elements.

2350
02:07:09,120 --> 02:07:16,000
Speaker 1: In addition, the terrain is always different, so I ski

2351
02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:22,280
Speaker 1: for the sensation. And let's be clear, I skied so

2352
02:07:22,360 --> 02:07:24,360
Speaker 1: much this year. I'm almost embarrassed tell you how much.

2353
02:07:24,840 --> 02:07:27,440
Speaker 1: There are days I don't want to go out, but

2354
02:07:28,680 --> 02:07:31,240
Speaker 1: because you just burnt. Yeah, I mean, how many stays

2355
02:07:31,280 --> 02:07:32,640
Speaker 1: in a row of ice skied?

2356
02:07:32,720 --> 02:07:38,000
Speaker 2: Now? Oh, I'm surprised you can.

2357
02:07:38,600 --> 02:07:40,920
Speaker 1: I think it's sixty eight days in a row right now,

2358
02:07:41,560 --> 02:07:44,520
Speaker 1: So there are days Wait wait.

2359
02:07:44,440 --> 02:07:47,600
Speaker 2: Wait, wait, you skied sixty eight days in a row.

2360
02:07:48,760 --> 02:07:52,240
Speaker 1: I'm at ninety eight days days over the year.

2361
02:07:52,720 --> 02:07:55,600
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, wait a minute. You got to give

2362
02:07:55,640 --> 02:08:01,760
Speaker 2: me a second to take that in. Okay, let's be honest, Okay,

2363
02:08:02,080 --> 02:08:03,680
Speaker 2: I can serve two days in a row, and then

2364
02:08:03,720 --> 02:08:06,400
Speaker 2: I got to take a day off. Tell me how

2365
02:08:06,400 --> 02:08:08,520
Speaker 2: you ski sixty eight days? I view it as a job,

2366
02:08:09,760 --> 02:08:12,000
Speaker 2: and I don't care if it's a job. It's sixty

2367
02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:15,320
Speaker 2: eight days. How do you three days row?

2368
02:08:15,800 --> 02:08:16,920
Speaker 1: Happen to be tired today?

2369
02:08:16,960 --> 02:08:20,800
Speaker 2: But let me really, let me you're tired, Bob.

2370
02:08:21,040 --> 02:08:23,120
Speaker 1: The list run two and a half times faster than

2371
02:08:23,160 --> 02:08:24,880
Speaker 1: they used to, so you get a lot of skiing

2372
02:08:25,000 --> 02:08:29,960
Speaker 1: in okay. But the key is to go out there

2373
02:08:30,560 --> 02:08:34,920
Speaker 1: till it clicks, till you're in the zone. It always happens.

2374
02:08:35,320 --> 02:08:38,360
Speaker 1: You don't want to leave the house. You're out there.

2375
02:08:38,440 --> 02:08:40,400
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I ski so much. I'm never going

2376
02:08:40,440 --> 02:08:43,760
Speaker 1: to ski badly. That's not the point. The point is,

2377
02:08:43,840 --> 02:08:46,600
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it clicks, you make that specific

2378
02:08:46,800 --> 02:08:51,640
Speaker 1: turn and goes this is the greatest sensation of all time.

2379
02:08:51,760 --> 02:08:54,880
Speaker 3: And you're out that. I understand. I understand that.

2380
02:08:54,960 --> 02:08:58,880
Speaker 2: But what I'm asking is about your stamina, like muscles ache.

2381
02:08:58,920 --> 02:09:01,840
Speaker 2: I mean you you you have to rest some time.

2382
02:09:01,920 --> 02:09:02,600
Speaker 3: I don't believe.

2383
02:09:02,760 --> 02:09:06,000
Speaker 1: I don't believe in it. I mean, wow, So today

2384
02:09:06,360 --> 02:09:12,400
Speaker 1: is wow. Today's day ninety eight. So barring anything untoward,

2385
02:09:12,440 --> 02:09:18,840
Speaker 1: I'll break one hundred days. Listen, you get older, everything

2386
02:09:19,000 --> 02:09:24,800
Speaker 1: becomes meaningless and it's only these core things that Okay.

2387
02:09:24,840 --> 02:09:27,800
Speaker 1: I was listening to the new Elton John Brandy Carlisle

2388
02:09:27,840 --> 02:09:32,120
Speaker 1: record today and the first song is about Laura and Nero,

2389
02:09:33,040 --> 02:09:36,600
Speaker 1: and that really set my mind going. I saw a

2390
02:09:36,920 --> 02:09:40,760
Speaker 1: Nero number of times, big fan, et cetera. Forgetting when

2391
02:09:40,800 --> 02:09:42,960
Speaker 1: she came back with Donnie. I know Donnie's story. She

2392
02:09:42,960 --> 02:09:46,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't be on SDL because of her weight, forget all that.

2393
02:09:47,080 --> 02:09:52,560
Speaker 1: But it unclicked me in that this crazy political era.

2394
02:09:53,080 --> 02:09:56,440
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, the door opened and I felt

2395
02:09:56,480 --> 02:09:58,760
Speaker 1: like myself and I could see where I'm doing. I mean,

2396
02:09:58,760 --> 02:10:02,080
Speaker 1: we all have obligation, so you can't always do what

2397
02:10:02,120 --> 02:10:04,480
Speaker 1: you want to do. I mean, listen, I could go

2398
02:10:04,560 --> 02:10:08,000
Speaker 1: on about this forever. So what are the important things?

2399
02:10:08,040 --> 02:10:12,560
Speaker 1: I don't have any children, You have children, family, whatever, Okay,

2400
02:10:13,200 --> 02:10:18,400
Speaker 1: eating sex, that's and reproducing that That's just about it.

2401
02:10:18,680 --> 02:10:21,880
Speaker 1: So anything you put on top, I mean, okay, let

2402
02:10:21,920 --> 02:10:24,800
Speaker 1: me switch throw it back to you. You take the

2403
02:10:24,840 --> 02:10:29,960
Speaker 1: buyout from Columbia, how long does it take you to

2404
02:10:30,080 --> 02:10:35,480
Speaker 1: emotionally adjust?

2405
02:10:38,160 --> 02:10:46,080
Speaker 2: Honestly, no time, because when I left, I left in

2406
02:10:46,120 --> 02:10:49,000
Speaker 2: two thousand and three, the business that I knew was gone,

2407
02:10:50,160 --> 02:10:54,240
Speaker 2: and so I wasn't leaving. People kept saying, but you're leaving,

2408
02:10:55,280 --> 02:10:57,760
Speaker 2: you know this great business, And I said, I'm leaving

2409
02:10:58,320 --> 02:11:02,160
Speaker 2: a family of people. And I've and I've got decades,

2410
02:11:02,200 --> 02:11:04,440
Speaker 2: like because I've I've stayed there so long. I knew

2411
02:11:04,440 --> 02:11:07,240
Speaker 2: people from the seventies, from the eighties, from the nineties,

2412
02:11:07,520 --> 02:11:11,600
Speaker 2: from the two thousands, I said. But I said, I

2413
02:11:12,520 --> 02:11:16,280
Speaker 2: just had the rock and roll adventure of a lifetime

2414
02:11:16,920 --> 02:11:20,520
Speaker 2: and it's gone. The priorities are different. I had to

2415
02:11:20,520 --> 02:11:23,240
Speaker 2: produce three DVDs for this TV show I had live

2416
02:11:23,280 --> 02:11:26,840
Speaker 2: by request. They just wanted to get them out. I said, no,

2417
02:11:27,080 --> 02:11:30,040
Speaker 2: they these have to be special. They have to have

2418
02:11:30,200 --> 02:11:32,760
Speaker 2: they have to have extras. I was tell you know,

2419
02:11:32,760 --> 02:11:36,480
Speaker 2: I was taking, you know, cues from watching movie DVDs.

2420
02:11:37,200 --> 02:11:38,600
Speaker 2: I know, we have to have extras. I want to

2421
02:11:38,640 --> 02:11:40,760
Speaker 2: do an interview with the band, or I want to

2422
02:11:40,760 --> 02:11:44,640
Speaker 2: do something special. These DVDs have to have extras. And

2423
02:11:44,680 --> 02:11:47,320
Speaker 2: they were like, I don't care what you do. Make

2424
02:11:47,360 --> 02:11:49,520
Speaker 2: sure you get them out by Christmas. That's what I

2425
02:11:49,560 --> 02:11:52,840
Speaker 2: need you to do. It was changing. It was like

2426
02:11:52,960 --> 02:11:58,160
Speaker 2: that's I can't like, so no, I I it you know,

2427
02:11:58,240 --> 02:12:00,520
Speaker 2: hey man, thanks for thirty three and at theirs years,

2428
02:12:00,960 --> 02:12:04,240
Speaker 2: you know, like I did it, I didn't miss it.

2429
02:12:12,280 --> 02:12:15,960
Speaker 1: All of us who were around then when you walked

2430
02:12:15,960 --> 02:12:19,760
Speaker 1: out the building, it was no longer fun. But let's

2431
02:12:19,800 --> 02:12:23,000
Speaker 1: talk about you. So you have a twenty four to

2432
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:26,160
Speaker 1: seven job. How do you adjust after that?

2433
02:12:28,680 --> 02:12:32,760
Speaker 2: Well, I think you do. I think you just adjust

2434
02:12:32,840 --> 02:12:39,640
Speaker 2: as life, you know, you know, as life demands. Okay,

2435
02:12:39,680 --> 02:12:44,200
Speaker 2: the twenty four to seven job changed. I will say

2436
02:12:44,200 --> 02:12:50,040
Speaker 2: that changed dramatically in nineteen ninety because when I the

2437
02:12:50,120 --> 02:12:54,920
Speaker 2: last thing I did in promotion was Alice in Chains

2438
02:12:54,960 --> 02:12:57,280
Speaker 2: and I went to Donnie Heiner and I said, listen,

2439
02:12:58,120 --> 02:12:59,920
Speaker 2: I think I'm repeating myself now that I'm been doing

2440
02:13:00,000 --> 02:13:02,720
Speaker 2: promotion for twenty two years, I have a lot of

2441
02:13:02,800 --> 02:13:06,800
Speaker 2: ideas of how to help artists and promote artists and

2442
02:13:06,960 --> 02:13:11,400
Speaker 2: and and you know, breakthrough. Other than just getting records

2443
02:13:11,440 --> 02:13:13,560
Speaker 2: played on radio and doing big promotions. I have some

2444
02:13:13,600 --> 02:13:18,640
Speaker 2: other ideas. And he was great about it. You know,

2445
02:13:18,640 --> 02:13:20,840
Speaker 2: most people would just say, hey, wrap twenty two years. Great,

2446
02:13:21,200 --> 02:13:24,320
Speaker 2: you know, here's your out, you know, check and thank you.

2447
02:13:25,360 --> 02:13:29,480
Speaker 2: He was wonderful. He knew I had vision, he said.

2448
02:13:29,760 --> 02:13:31,600
Speaker 2: I told him about some of my ideas. He said,

2449
02:13:31,640 --> 02:13:34,000
Speaker 2: if you think you can do this, make up a

2450
02:13:34,040 --> 02:13:37,560
Speaker 2: title for yourself. How's this, Bob, make up a title

2451
02:13:37,560 --> 02:13:40,640
Speaker 2: for yourself. I'm going to give you three hundred thousand

2452
02:13:40,680 --> 02:13:43,440
Speaker 2: dollars budget, give you a year. See what you can do.

2453
02:13:44,320 --> 02:13:46,360
Speaker 2: Who does that, Bob? You're any record company presidents that

2454
02:13:46,480 --> 02:13:48,360
Speaker 2: do that? Most of them just write you off.

2455
02:13:48,440 --> 02:13:48,640
Speaker 3: Right.

2456
02:13:49,000 --> 02:13:50,520
Speaker 2: But he knew me, and he's seen what I did.

2457
02:13:52,600 --> 02:14:01,160
Speaker 2: I said, thanks. Then my job changed and I still

2458
02:14:01,160 --> 02:14:04,200
Speaker 2: had sleepless nights, but not as many because I just

2459
02:14:04,240 --> 02:14:07,160
Speaker 2: get amped. I do big, as you read in the book,

2460
02:14:07,200 --> 02:14:09,840
Speaker 2: I'm the guy that shoots laser beams off mountain sides

2461
02:14:09,880 --> 02:14:13,560
Speaker 2: and fucking makes airships, and you know, when it's big,

2462
02:14:13,600 --> 02:14:15,640
Speaker 2: it's a lot of pressure. But I would have but

2463
02:14:15,640 --> 02:14:19,720
Speaker 2: but it wasn't the same. It wasn't because I didn't

2464
02:14:19,760 --> 02:14:22,280
Speaker 2: have to go to every show then because I'm not

2465
02:14:22,520 --> 02:14:25,480
Speaker 2: on the front lines now. I'm doing behind the scenes

2466
02:14:25,480 --> 02:14:29,360
Speaker 2: of marketing. So things did change for me in nineteen

2467
02:14:29,440 --> 02:14:32,640
Speaker 2: ninety and I could be home to see the kids

2468
02:14:32,800 --> 02:14:35,440
Speaker 2: at certain times. It didn't have to be out every night,

2469
02:14:36,000 --> 02:14:38,960
Speaker 2: and that was a pleasant change. You know, you know,

2470
02:14:39,000 --> 02:14:42,800
Speaker 2: I had my fun, Believe me, but that you know,

2471
02:14:43,040 --> 02:14:45,800
Speaker 2: that was good and and everything I did past that

2472
02:14:48,080 --> 02:14:52,480
Speaker 2: is still if you're in the music business. It's still

2473
02:14:52,680 --> 02:14:55,200
Speaker 2: a lifestyle. Even in today's music business. I mean, it's

2474
02:14:55,240 --> 02:14:58,360
Speaker 2: still a lifestyle. So it never ceased to become a lifestyle.

2475
02:14:59,240 --> 02:15:04,680
Speaker 2: But but the idea of you know that this constant

2476
02:15:04,720 --> 02:15:07,680
Speaker 2: you know, Sunday night pressure, this Monday night pressure, this

2477
02:15:07,840 --> 02:15:11,560
Speaker 2: every week pressure. That kind of pressure was lifted and

2478
02:15:11,600 --> 02:15:14,400
Speaker 2: I would only have pressure like before this next radio show,

2479
02:15:14,520 --> 02:15:16,880
Speaker 2: before this next television show. What you know, you do

2480
02:15:16,920 --> 02:15:19,800
Speaker 2: a life television show. There's a lot of pressure live

2481
02:15:19,840 --> 02:15:22,520
Speaker 2: without a net, right, But it's different because it would

2482
02:15:22,520 --> 02:15:24,560
Speaker 2: only last for that project and then it would go

2483
02:15:24,600 --> 02:15:27,480
Speaker 2: away and then you'd have like a vacation for a

2484
02:15:27,480 --> 02:15:28,720
Speaker 2: few weeks. So my life did change.

2485
02:15:28,760 --> 02:15:31,960
Speaker 1: Let me let me put it a different way. Donnie

2486
02:15:32,120 --> 02:15:36,120
Speaker 1: worked at Arista. Then he was president of Columbia, had

2487
02:15:36,120 --> 02:15:41,360
Speaker 1: a great run. It ended then that was you know,

2488
02:15:41,520 --> 02:15:45,320
Speaker 1: the dot com era. He would come to Los Angeles.

2489
02:15:45,440 --> 02:15:47,680
Speaker 1: I would go to see some company he was involved,

2490
02:15:47,680 --> 02:15:53,680
Speaker 1: We sign an NDA whatever. Eventually he said I'm done. Okay.

2491
02:15:54,440 --> 02:15:57,080
Speaker 1: So after you walked out of the building in two

2492
02:15:57,080 --> 02:16:00,960
Speaker 1: thousand and three, were you saying you're done then, or

2493
02:16:01,080 --> 02:16:04,440
Speaker 1: did you want to have certain business enterprises? How did

2494
02:16:04,480 --> 02:16:06,960
Speaker 1: you segue to where you are now? Oh?

2495
02:16:07,000 --> 02:16:09,600
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. I wasn't done with the music business.

2496
02:16:09,640 --> 02:16:12,400
Speaker 2: I was just you know, they were offering these big

2497
02:16:12,440 --> 02:16:13,680
Speaker 2: time retirement packages.

2498
02:16:13,720 --> 02:16:16,600
Speaker 1: They were yeah, yeah, we covered that. But now you

2499
02:16:16,760 --> 02:16:18,800
Speaker 1: get your check and you're totally free.

2500
02:16:19,200 --> 02:16:21,200
Speaker 2: Right. No, no, no, But the point I want to

2501
02:16:21,240 --> 02:16:25,680
Speaker 2: make is you need to understand this. The year before

2502
02:16:25,720 --> 02:16:30,320
Speaker 2: I left, they said, this is what's going to happen.

2503
02:16:31,480 --> 02:16:36,000
Speaker 2: We're going to pay you for the next year. You

2504
02:16:36,000 --> 02:16:40,520
Speaker 2: don't need to do anything. You can just retire. And

2505
02:16:40,560 --> 02:16:43,600
Speaker 2: a friend of mine, who was the controller in the

2506
02:16:43,879 --> 02:16:46,040
Speaker 2: controller at the time, said, but if I were you,

2507
02:16:46,080 --> 02:16:49,040
Speaker 2: because I know you and you want to start another business,

2508
02:16:49,959 --> 02:16:52,520
Speaker 2: you got a free ride because we're going to pay

2509
02:16:52,560 --> 02:16:55,440
Speaker 2: you for this entire year. And I had another friend

2510
02:16:55,480 --> 02:17:00,120
Speaker 2: of mine, Ron Hartenbaum, who's ran Media America and you

2511
02:17:00,160 --> 02:17:03,720
Speaker 2: know it's in the communications industry. He said, rap, you're

2512
02:17:03,720 --> 02:17:06,440
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, somebo are you talking about because all these

2513
02:17:06,440 --> 02:17:08,520
Speaker 2: things you do, you're an entrepreneur. I never thought of

2514
02:17:08,560 --> 02:17:10,680
Speaker 2: myself as that. He goes, No, you do all these things.

2515
02:17:11,280 --> 02:17:12,640
Speaker 2: You come to my office I'm going to give you

2516
02:17:12,640 --> 02:17:16,120
Speaker 2: a free office and a telephone. See what you can do.

2517
02:17:16,160 --> 02:17:19,000
Speaker 2: Just I know your mind. He goes, just come over here,

2518
02:17:19,560 --> 02:17:22,080
Speaker 2: and I began to think, well, maybe Ron is right,

2519
02:17:22,080 --> 02:17:24,240
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, what can I do now? I

2520
02:17:24,280 --> 02:17:27,879
Speaker 2: had done a radio series for Columbia called the Columbia

2521
02:17:27,879 --> 02:17:30,360
Speaker 2: Records Radio Hour, which is I'm really proud of it.

2522
02:17:30,360 --> 02:17:32,960
Speaker 2: You go find it online. There's some great music on there.

2523
02:17:33,840 --> 02:17:36,600
Speaker 2: And I had created a radio series. I'm not the

2524
02:17:36,640 --> 02:17:38,600
Speaker 2: retiring kind. I mean, Bob, I wrote this book, but

2525
02:17:39,160 --> 02:17:41,040
Speaker 2: after I promote this book, I'll do something else. I'm not.

2526
02:17:41,320 --> 02:17:44,119
Speaker 2: I'll never retire. I can't. I need to do stuff.

2527
02:17:44,120 --> 02:17:49,800
Speaker 2: I'm just built that way. So so I started immediately.

2528
02:17:49,879 --> 02:17:51,720
Speaker 2: I didn't take a break. It was just like, I'm

2529
02:17:51,720 --> 02:17:54,480
Speaker 2: not doing this anymore. What can I do? Okay, well,

2530
02:17:54,560 --> 02:17:57,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to let's I'll do with the Columbia Records

2531
02:17:57,120 --> 02:18:00,080
Speaker 2: Radio Hour, but I'll just do a different name. And

2532
02:18:00,120 --> 02:18:01,960
Speaker 2: I called all my friends in radio and said, hey, hey,

2533
02:18:02,480 --> 02:18:07,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to do this, and they said, we're kind

2534
02:18:07,720 --> 02:18:11,240
Speaker 2: of over that thing now and we don't want it

2535
02:18:11,280 --> 02:18:13,600
Speaker 2: to be at an exact same time. Because I was

2536
02:18:13,600 --> 02:18:15,400
Speaker 2: doing live radio that was a live radio show on

2537
02:18:15,440 --> 02:18:17,440
Speaker 2: Sunday mornings, a singer song of radio show. You tune

2538
02:18:17,480 --> 02:18:19,800
Speaker 2: in live. They said, but if you want to create

2539
02:18:19,879 --> 02:18:23,320
Speaker 2: radio specials, we're all about that. And I went, okay,

2540
02:18:23,680 --> 02:18:28,800
Speaker 2: I'll create radio specials. And I I took this friend

2541
02:18:28,800 --> 02:18:30,600
Speaker 2: of mine who had helped me do all the stuff

2542
02:18:30,640 --> 02:18:34,560
Speaker 2: at Columbia, the radio show and the television shows, fabulous engineer,

2543
02:18:34,600 --> 02:18:39,279
Speaker 2: producer guy named Mitch Mcatanski, and another friend of mine

2544
02:18:39,720 --> 02:18:44,200
Speaker 2: who was a scriptwriter, and I said, we're going to

2545
02:18:44,360 --> 02:18:46,600
Speaker 2: We're gonna do radio shows. And I have all these connections,

2546
02:18:46,600 --> 02:18:48,200
Speaker 2: so I just go to the record companies and go, hey,

2547
02:18:48,440 --> 02:18:50,600
Speaker 2: you want a radio show for a new album coming out?

2548
02:18:51,080 --> 02:18:56,039
Speaker 2: And we produced radio shows for three years. The company

2549
02:18:56,120 --> 02:18:58,640
Speaker 2: name was Trey Sombres because I'm a big Zzy Top fan.

2550
02:18:59,000 --> 02:19:01,080
Speaker 2: And there were three of us and our company was

2551
02:19:01,120 --> 02:19:05,480
Speaker 2: Treys Onmbres and we produced radio shows god at least

2552
02:19:05,800 --> 02:19:11,720
Speaker 2: six years, if not longer, and it was lucrative enough

2553
02:19:11,760 --> 02:19:15,040
Speaker 2: for the three of us to do it. Mitch also

2554
02:19:15,440 --> 02:19:19,920
Speaker 2: ran a business. He's like the mobile truck guy. Now,

2555
02:19:19,920 --> 02:19:21,480
Speaker 2: if you want a mobile truck, you call three M

2556
02:19:21,480 --> 02:19:23,840
Speaker 2: that's him, and he was doing that. But that was

2557
02:19:23,920 --> 02:19:27,200
Speaker 2: lucrative enough. And then when that tailed out, I got

2558
02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:30,199
Speaker 2: a call from Judy Lebau, who you knows ex Atlantic.

2559
02:19:30,440 --> 02:19:35,880
Speaker 2: She wanted to do independent promotion for classic rock. Right.

2560
02:19:36,240 --> 02:19:37,840
Speaker 2: There was a guy, Paul Yeskell used to do it.

2561
02:19:37,840 --> 02:19:40,400
Speaker 2: He passed away. She bought his business. She said, do

2562
02:19:40,440 --> 02:19:43,400
Speaker 2: you want to do this again? I said, I don't

2563
02:19:43,440 --> 02:19:45,480
Speaker 2: really know because I'm kind of tapped out, like I

2564
02:19:45,480 --> 02:19:48,080
Speaker 2: feel like I did it right. And she says, well,

2565
02:19:48,120 --> 02:19:50,920
Speaker 2: just try it with me. We had a really good time.

2566
02:19:51,040 --> 02:19:53,560
Speaker 2: First of all, I saw re I got to work

2567
02:19:53,560 --> 02:19:55,800
Speaker 2: with all these characters I worked with the first time.

2568
02:19:56,120 --> 02:19:58,000
Speaker 2: I'd be on the phone with Journey. Have you on

2569
02:19:58,000 --> 02:20:00,840
Speaker 2: the phone with Neil Sean's like rap is that you?

2570
02:20:01,480 --> 02:20:05,120
Speaker 2: I go yeah, I go yeah. He was like holy shit, really,

2571
02:20:05,160 --> 02:20:07,959
Speaker 2: I go yeah, you know, And so I would, you know,

2572
02:20:08,000 --> 02:20:09,959
Speaker 2: and I and I so and again I would. I

2573
02:20:09,959 --> 02:20:13,320
Speaker 2: worked really close with David Gilmore and Nick you know,

2574
02:20:13,400 --> 02:20:16,800
Speaker 2: for any Pink Floyd box sets, I would go over

2575
02:20:16,840 --> 02:20:20,240
Speaker 2: and interview David. I mean again, you go back to

2576
02:20:20,280 --> 02:20:23,760
Speaker 2: the family for a second. Right, new manager Steve o'rourck

2577
02:20:23,800 --> 02:20:26,160
Speaker 2: passed away, sadly, new manager Apollo's but you got to

2578
02:20:26,160 --> 02:20:29,240
Speaker 2: come over here and interview Gilmore for this box set.

2579
02:20:29,320 --> 02:20:33,000
Speaker 2: I go, I'm not an interviewer, Like, that's not what

2580
02:20:33,040 --> 02:20:35,720
Speaker 2: I do. Like I'm behind the scenes guy. No, no,

2581
02:20:36,320 --> 02:20:38,800
Speaker 2: we need you. He is the only guy who wants

2582
02:20:38,840 --> 02:20:42,920
Speaker 2: to talk to right, He's just you know, just do it,

2583
02:20:43,360 --> 02:20:46,000
Speaker 2: you know, I said, okay, you know, so I did

2584
02:20:46,000 --> 02:20:48,920
Speaker 2: the best I could. There's interviews with me on YouTube

2585
02:20:48,959 --> 02:20:50,680
Speaker 2: interviewing Dave Gilmore. By the time you get to the

2586
02:20:50,720 --> 02:20:53,280
Speaker 2: third one, I'm actually okay, right, but it's not what

2587
02:20:53,320 --> 02:20:57,160
Speaker 2: I do. But so these things would happen for me

2588
02:20:57,280 --> 02:21:02,000
Speaker 2: just just by reputation, right, And I would do, you know,

2589
02:21:02,520 --> 02:21:05,760
Speaker 2: guitar things for you know, the guitars or whatever. So

2590
02:21:05,800 --> 02:21:08,160
Speaker 2: I did, Judy, and I did that for ten years.

2591
02:21:08,520 --> 02:21:10,760
Speaker 2: And I wrote a blog which I had a blast writing.

2592
02:21:10,800 --> 02:21:13,560
Speaker 2: I'd talk about new music. I got to be you man,

2593
02:21:13,600 --> 02:21:17,000
Speaker 2: I was dissing everybody. I was like, I didn't care.

2594
02:21:17,480 --> 02:21:19,320
Speaker 2: You know, I don't care anymore. It's like, what the

2595
02:21:19,400 --> 02:21:21,720
Speaker 2: fuck is this shit? Right? Are you telling me? This

2596
02:21:21,800 --> 02:21:24,160
Speaker 2: is you know? I mean, i'd get hate mail, right,

2597
02:21:24,320 --> 02:21:27,160
Speaker 2: this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Right, Wait, wait, Bob,

2598
02:21:27,160 --> 02:21:30,400
Speaker 2: how's this? I interviewed Gill okay, if we're on YouTube.

2599
02:21:30,920 --> 02:21:36,320
Speaker 2: Oh shit, people fucking comment. Right I interview Gilmore. I

2600
02:21:36,400 --> 02:21:38,720
Speaker 2: get one comment, Oh god, this guy rap Ward's great.

2601
02:21:38,800 --> 02:21:41,240
Speaker 2: He's asking him every question I ever wanted to ask him. Well,

2602
02:21:41,280 --> 02:21:43,560
Speaker 2: of course I'm a fan. I'm asking him those questions. Right,

2603
02:21:43,760 --> 02:21:47,440
Speaker 2: next comment, this guy rapping Board is a fucking idiot, Like,

2604
02:21:47,600 --> 02:21:51,959
Speaker 2: doesn't he know that Comfortably Numb has been played millions

2605
02:21:51,959 --> 02:21:54,640
Speaker 2: of times on radio. It's not three hundred and you know,

2606
02:21:54,640 --> 02:21:57,840
Speaker 2: fifty six thousand or whatever. I happen to research, you

2607
02:21:57,959 --> 02:22:00,040
Speaker 2: fucking idiot. You know, it's like, do you think I

2608
02:22:00,360 --> 02:22:02,520
Speaker 2: come in to interview David gilmert, I don't know what

2609
02:22:02,600 --> 02:22:06,039
Speaker 2: I'm talking about, you know, so you know, so you

2610
02:22:06,080 --> 02:22:08,520
Speaker 2: know it's you know, so I did that for ten

2611
02:22:08,640 --> 02:22:11,640
Speaker 2: years and then and then six years ago I told Judy,

2612
02:22:11,680 --> 02:22:13,560
Speaker 2: I said, you know that this book has just been

2613
02:22:13,640 --> 02:22:16,480
Speaker 2: it's calling out to me, Judy. It's like someone, someone

2614
02:22:16,560 --> 02:22:22,160
Speaker 2: has to document this, someone has to talk about these characters,

2615
02:22:22,200 --> 02:22:26,800
Speaker 2: the Herbie Herbert's, the fucking Sandy Pearlman's of you know,

2616
02:22:26,879 --> 02:22:30,000
Speaker 2: Bloyster called when the fucking flash plots go off with

2617
02:22:30,040 --> 02:22:32,160
Speaker 2: too much powder, and I thought we killed the fucking

2618
02:22:32,360 --> 02:22:34,920
Speaker 2: band and took out the first three rows of audience,

2619
02:22:35,120 --> 02:22:39,160
Speaker 2: and all Sandy's like fucking mister Peabody and Peabody and Sherman,

2620
02:22:39,560 --> 02:22:45,280
Speaker 2: and all he does is look out and go positively nuclear. Right,

2621
02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:48,360
Speaker 2: I'm Sandy, and we might have killed people. He's, you know,

2622
02:22:48,440 --> 02:22:53,440
Speaker 2: like the Bob you know you're talking about. Someone had

2623
02:22:53,440 --> 02:22:57,640
Speaker 2: to capture this bob you're talking about, you know, bowling

2624
02:22:57,640 --> 02:23:00,560
Speaker 2: in the hallways in the afternoon water gun fire. I

2625
02:23:00,560 --> 02:23:04,000
Speaker 2: had a fun fucking fencing duel with with Bruce Dickinson

2626
02:23:04,080 --> 02:23:07,440
Speaker 2: from Iron Maiden down the halls of Columbia, you know,

2627
02:23:08,680 --> 02:23:11,360
Speaker 2: businest meetings about how we can't set our table on

2628
02:23:11,440 --> 02:23:15,200
Speaker 2: fire anymore. Someone had to fucking put this down. Because

2629
02:23:15,240 --> 02:23:17,520
Speaker 2: you want to know something, Bob, we are getting older

2630
02:23:17,560 --> 02:23:20,240
Speaker 2: and when we're gone, if nobody writes it, it's gonna

2631
02:23:20,240 --> 02:23:23,800
Speaker 2: be gone. And you were there, Come on, man, it's

2632
02:23:23,840 --> 02:23:26,400
Speaker 2: guys and dolls only it's the record business and we

2633
02:23:26,440 --> 02:23:29,000
Speaker 2: have all we have, all these fucking characters. Somebody's got

2634
02:23:29,000 --> 02:23:32,560
Speaker 2: to write about these fucking people. Forget the artists. What

2635
02:23:32,600 --> 02:23:36,760
Speaker 2: about fucking what Johnny Baggs, right, John Babcock. All this

2636
02:23:36,800 --> 02:23:39,760
Speaker 2: guy ever says is get down Hey, John, will you

2637
02:23:39,760 --> 02:23:42,600
Speaker 2: approve this? Get down? Okay? Do you smoked a lot

2638
02:23:42,600 --> 02:23:45,840
Speaker 2: of dope? Needs to say quaylas, But everybody loved him. Okay,

2639
02:23:45,840 --> 02:23:48,440
Speaker 2: it used to be out in John's road manager. Then right,

2640
02:23:48,800 --> 02:23:51,800
Speaker 2: if he really wanted to make a point, get down,

2641
02:23:52,600 --> 02:23:57,400
Speaker 2: and then oh no, then this one. Get fucking down.

2642
02:23:58,040 --> 02:24:01,360
Speaker 2: Somebody asked her, this guy's real. Okay when this book.

2643
02:24:01,400 --> 02:24:04,400
Speaker 2: After I promote this book, I'm going to TV Bob

2644
02:24:04,800 --> 02:24:08,840
Speaker 2: forget Vinyl. What a horrible show. It's not a fucking documentary.

2645
02:24:08,920 --> 02:24:11,960
Speaker 2: This is a fucking sitcom. This book is a sitcom

2646
02:24:12,120 --> 02:24:15,200
Speaker 2: and all the characters are already written. They're written. It's

2647
02:24:15,200 --> 02:24:17,880
Speaker 2: a great jumping off point for any Hollywood writer. You

2648
02:24:17,959 --> 02:24:21,280
Speaker 2: couldn't make this shit up in your wildest dreams. These

2649
02:24:21,320 --> 02:24:23,800
Speaker 2: are real people and this is how they really were.

2650
02:24:24,120 --> 02:24:26,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, So six years ago I said I gotta

2651
02:24:26,320 --> 02:24:27,920
Speaker 2: do this and I just started.

2652
02:24:28,000 --> 02:24:30,920
Speaker 1: I just remember you talk about these pag We was

2653
02:24:31,000 --> 02:24:37,760
Speaker 1: a a Pollock convention and it was at the Century Plaza.

2654
02:24:37,800 --> 02:24:38,720
Speaker 2: Huh.

2655
02:24:38,800 --> 02:24:41,400
Speaker 1: There were a lot of crazy things. You Australians drank

2656
02:24:41,480 --> 02:24:43,560
Speaker 1: through the bottles into the pool. They had to drain

2657
02:24:43,640 --> 02:24:48,480
Speaker 1: the pool big But I was in the Atlantic suite.

2658
02:24:49,280 --> 02:24:52,520
Speaker 1: It's six in the morning, and who shows up at

2659
02:24:52,520 --> 02:24:56,039
Speaker 1: a suit and tie ricks glore. He goes, I'm on

2660
02:24:56,120 --> 02:25:00,959
Speaker 1: New York time. Wow. And then he died within the year,

2661
02:25:01,720 --> 02:25:06,040
Speaker 1: which was so weird. But there are many more stories

2662
02:25:06,040 --> 02:25:08,680
Speaker 1: in the book. It's a great read. But before you go,

2663
02:25:08,920 --> 02:25:12,480
Speaker 1: I have one more subject. I want to discuss Mogan

2664
02:25:12,680 --> 02:25:16,960
Speaker 1: David in the Winos. I heard from Harold just before

2665
02:25:17,040 --> 02:25:19,160
Speaker 1: we started it. So, okay, in case you don't know,

2666
02:25:19,800 --> 02:25:23,680
Speaker 1: Harold Bronson one of the Rhino Brothers, known to a

2667
02:25:23,720 --> 02:25:29,439
Speaker 1: great degree for musical comedy and a lot of innovative ideas.

2668
02:25:29,760 --> 02:25:33,760
Speaker 1: By time I became friends with Harold, Mogan David and

2669
02:25:33,800 --> 02:25:36,160
Speaker 1: the Winos was in the rear view, Mirriort. Not that

2670
02:25:36,200 --> 02:25:39,320
Speaker 1: Harold did not talk about it and talk about you.

2671
02:25:40,520 --> 02:25:43,320
Speaker 1: I always though it as more of a lark. I mean,

2672
02:25:43,520 --> 02:25:46,280
Speaker 1: Harold's got his own sense of humor. But in the

2673
02:25:46,320 --> 02:25:51,120
Speaker 1: book you said when the Ramones hit, we could have

2674
02:25:51,160 --> 02:25:54,360
Speaker 1: had that slot. So tell me about Mogen David and

2675
02:25:54,440 --> 02:25:55,120
Speaker 1: the Winos.

2676
02:25:55,320 --> 02:25:59,240
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, to be clear, that's what Harold said. Okay,

2677
02:25:59,640 --> 02:26:02,800
Speaker 2: Because I thought it was a lark. When I was

2678
02:26:02,800 --> 02:26:05,400
Speaker 2: in the band, we had a lot of fun Harold's

2679
02:26:05,680 --> 02:26:08,480
Speaker 2: very you know, got a big imagination. He wrote really

2680
02:26:08,520 --> 02:26:11,680
Speaker 2: fun songs. We made our own record. We didn't know

2681
02:26:11,680 --> 02:26:13,320
Speaker 2: what the hell we were doing. We went to We're

2682
02:26:13,360 --> 02:26:15,080
Speaker 2: snugging a recording studio in the middle of the night.

2683
02:26:15,160 --> 02:26:19,959
Speaker 2: Look e Q, what does that mean? Like? We didn't know. Consequently,

2684
02:26:20,000 --> 02:26:23,200
Speaker 2: the record sounds like it sounds I don't know if

2685
02:26:23,200 --> 02:26:30,360
Speaker 2: you write record, but okay, sorry, But we were creative,

2686
02:26:32,320 --> 02:26:36,360
Speaker 2: I'll give us that, and we were rehearsed, but we

2687
02:26:36,400 --> 02:26:41,280
Speaker 2: did wild shit. He wrote a song for Stan Berkowitz,

2688
02:26:41,280 --> 02:26:43,600
Speaker 2: who was the editor of The Daily Bruin. We were

2689
02:26:43,640 --> 02:26:46,199
Speaker 2: going to college together at UCLA. It's a blue song.

2690
02:26:46,240 --> 02:26:49,640
Speaker 2: It's called the Burkowitz Blues. So instead of me playing

2691
02:26:49,640 --> 02:26:53,120
Speaker 2: a pentatonic blue scale on guitar, I said, Harold, I'm

2692
02:26:53,120 --> 02:26:56,240
Speaker 2: going to play a typewriter. So when you hear the solo,

2693
02:26:56,360 --> 02:27:00,840
Speaker 2: you hear like a blues thing, like you hear click

2694
02:27:01,120 --> 02:27:04,000
Speaker 2: click click click click click click click, like talking with

2695
02:27:04,040 --> 02:27:07,440
Speaker 2: the blues guitar. But it's a typewriter, right. We had

2696
02:27:07,520 --> 02:27:11,920
Speaker 2: inserts because we saw our whole album cover is a

2697
02:27:12,320 --> 02:27:15,360
Speaker 2: takeoff on Savage Young Winos. It's a takeoff on the

2698
02:27:15,360 --> 02:27:18,720
Speaker 2: Savage Young Beatles. The album cover is a knockoff of

2699
02:27:18,760 --> 02:27:22,160
Speaker 2: their cover. We had inserts because we saw Who's Live

2700
02:27:22,200 --> 02:27:23,880
Speaker 2: at Leads. We loved it the fold out right, so

2701
02:27:23,920 --> 02:27:28,040
Speaker 2: we made we copied it full down. There's there's there's

2702
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:32,080
Speaker 2: nine inserts right that you get. Okay, you get my

2703
02:27:32,320 --> 02:27:36,240
Speaker 2: flunked music final. I flunked music one at UCLA. Okay,

2704
02:27:36,760 --> 02:27:38,960
Speaker 2: because I'm not a math guy. Math and I don't

2705
02:27:38,959 --> 02:27:42,280
Speaker 2: get along theory is all math. I fucking flunked music one.

2706
02:27:42,440 --> 02:27:45,000
Speaker 2: I almost didn't graduate because I didn't realize I didn't

2707
02:27:45,040 --> 02:27:46,960
Speaker 2: have enough credits and they said you don't have enough

2708
02:27:47,000 --> 02:27:49,800
Speaker 2: credits and I said, no, I I only have one

2709
02:27:49,879 --> 02:27:52,080
Speaker 2: D and that was in logic, and you know, was

2710
02:27:52,120 --> 02:27:54,480
Speaker 2: that prepared me for the music business? But you know,

2711
02:27:54,520 --> 02:27:56,440
Speaker 2: I said, they said, no, you flund a class. I

2712
02:27:56,440 --> 02:27:58,160
Speaker 2: didn't flun the click. I said, you flucked music one.

2713
02:27:58,200 --> 02:28:00,600
Speaker 2: I go, no, that was a joke. Well you might

2714
02:28:00,600 --> 02:28:02,240
Speaker 2: think as a joke, but you need the X amount

2715
02:28:02,280 --> 02:28:04,720
Speaker 2: of credits, right, So you get my f one. You know,

2716
02:28:04,920 --> 02:28:07,160
Speaker 2: my flunk music. Finally you get a cartoon. You get

2717
02:28:07,160 --> 02:28:10,200
Speaker 2: all these kind of things. The liner notes are hysterical.

2718
02:28:10,320 --> 02:28:12,280
Speaker 2: Forget listening to the record. We the liner notes, Harold's

2719
02:28:12,320 --> 02:28:15,920
Speaker 2: fucking great writer. Right, So I thought it was fun

2720
02:28:17,640 --> 02:28:19,520
Speaker 2: and I but I didn't think we were that good.

2721
02:28:19,560 --> 02:28:23,560
Speaker 2: Now here's an important point. Okay, what did we not

2722
02:28:23,879 --> 02:28:27,760
Speaker 2: know in the early seventies, Bob, We did not know

2723
02:28:27,920 --> 02:28:31,440
Speaker 2: that there was something called the Wrecking Crew? And so

2724
02:28:31,480 --> 02:28:33,600
Speaker 2: what I would listen to records and go, Beryld, We're

2725
02:28:33,640 --> 02:28:36,040
Speaker 2: just not good in it. We're not good enough. We're

2726
02:28:36,040 --> 02:28:40,440
Speaker 2: not those people. Well guess what, Bob. Neither were they.

2727
02:28:40,520 --> 02:28:42,080
Speaker 2: You know, they were making it up as they went along.

2728
02:28:42,080 --> 02:28:45,000
Speaker 2: But we didn't know. If we would have gotten signed,

2729
02:28:45,040 --> 02:28:47,600
Speaker 2: we might have been something because somebody has said, hey,

2730
02:28:47,720 --> 02:28:49,760
Speaker 2: rap play it this way, or if you can't, I'll

2731
02:28:49,760 --> 02:28:52,840
Speaker 2: get somebody to play it. We didn't know. So I

2732
02:28:52,879 --> 02:28:57,800
Speaker 2: told Harold and I'm you know, I'm I'm an adventurer,

2733
02:28:58,000 --> 02:28:59,840
Speaker 2: but I like to come home at the end. I mean,

2734
02:28:59,879 --> 02:29:01,560
Speaker 2: I knew wouldn't I wouldn't make it on the road.

2735
02:29:01,560 --> 02:29:03,600
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to survive. I'd be a road casualty.

2736
02:29:03,760 --> 02:29:05,920
Speaker 2: I know me, I couldn't do it, couldn't live on

2737
02:29:05,959 --> 02:29:08,039
Speaker 2: the road. So I knew it early on. As much

2738
02:29:08,040 --> 02:29:10,440
Speaker 2: as I would like to be a rock star, this

2739
02:29:10,520 --> 02:29:12,120
Speaker 2: can't be a vocation for me. But I'm just going

2740
02:29:12,160 --> 02:29:13,720
Speaker 2: to keep playing guitar because I love it. But I

2741
02:29:13,920 --> 02:29:17,600
Speaker 2: you know, the Columbia job came up. Harold was the

2742
02:29:17,680 --> 02:29:19,760
Speaker 2: college rep. I'd hired him when I got the real

2743
02:29:19,840 --> 02:29:22,520
Speaker 2: job at Columbia to follow me, and he wanted to

2744
02:29:22,520 --> 02:29:24,039
Speaker 2: take the band on the road. And I said, Harold,

2745
02:29:24,040 --> 02:29:27,760
Speaker 2: you know, we're having fun. We made a record, we

2746
02:29:27,800 --> 02:29:30,000
Speaker 2: made a thousand records, we sold a thousand records. We

2747
02:29:30,000 --> 02:29:37,360
Speaker 2: sold records world over. I have reviews from Japan and

2748
02:29:37,400 --> 02:29:41,320
Speaker 2: from France. I don't know what they say because I

2749
02:29:41,320 --> 02:29:43,280
Speaker 2: don't know if they liked it or not. But Harold

2750
02:29:43,320 --> 02:29:45,440
Speaker 2: made a little folder for us. I have reviews from

2751
02:29:45,440 --> 02:29:48,520
Speaker 2: all over and we had friends in the press right

2752
02:29:48,640 --> 02:29:51,000
Speaker 2: They loved us in La. You know, I got a

2753
02:29:51,000 --> 02:29:54,000
Speaker 2: great compliment from you know, Harvey Kopernick about my solo

2754
02:29:54,080 --> 02:29:56,760
Speaker 2: and you know, communication breakdown, all this kind of stuff.

2755
02:29:57,080 --> 02:29:59,400
Speaker 2: So but I did not think it could go past

2756
02:29:59,480 --> 02:30:02,800
Speaker 2: that now did Okay? But then he said to me, well,

2757
02:30:02,800 --> 02:30:04,800
Speaker 2: if you're going to get a real job at Columbia,

2758
02:30:05,120 --> 02:30:07,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to go work with Richard Foz. He wants

2759
02:30:07,040 --> 02:30:10,400
Speaker 2: to start a label, which was Rhino right, which he did,

2760
02:30:11,320 --> 02:30:15,160
Speaker 2: and he did fine. Right, he's not complaining and I

2761
02:30:15,200 --> 02:30:19,080
Speaker 2: did fine, So neither of us are complaining. But then

2762
02:30:19,120 --> 02:30:21,760
Speaker 2: when the ramones hit, because Harold and I have been

2763
02:30:21,800 --> 02:30:24,600
Speaker 2: friends for years, he called me and he goes, you see,

2764
02:30:24,840 --> 02:30:28,240
Speaker 2: he goes, this could have been us, and Bob will

2765
02:30:28,280 --> 02:30:31,520
Speaker 2: never know because it could have been We will never

2766
02:30:31,640 --> 02:30:33,760
Speaker 2: know because it's not like we didn't have talent, and

2767
02:30:33,800 --> 02:30:36,039
Speaker 2: it was not like Harold wasn't writing really good songs.

2768
02:30:36,480 --> 02:30:39,720
Speaker 2: He wrote teenage tanks. I mean, this guy's you know,

2769
02:30:39,800 --> 02:30:41,360
Speaker 2: he's got it. So I don't know but that. But

2770
02:30:41,520 --> 02:30:42,879
Speaker 2: we had a lot of fun, and I just didn't

2771
02:30:42,920 --> 02:30:45,200
Speaker 2: think it was going to go that far. And so

2772
02:30:45,240 --> 02:30:47,000
Speaker 2: I did what I did, and he went to Rhino.

2773
02:30:46,800 --> 02:30:50,120
Speaker 1: And Okay, I think that we've come to the end

2774
02:30:50,160 --> 02:30:51,880
Speaker 1: of the feeling we've known. I could talk to you

2775
02:30:52,040 --> 02:30:55,360
Speaker 1: all night, you know, about all these things.

2776
02:30:55,400 --> 02:30:58,360
Speaker 2: But rap, well, when you stop skiing and I come

2777
02:30:58,440 --> 02:31:00,959
Speaker 2: to LA, I'll take you to that. It would be

2778
02:31:01,040 --> 02:31:04,039
Speaker 2: my pleasure. I'm one of your biggest fans. I look

2779
02:31:04,120 --> 02:31:07,120
Speaker 2: for it. You got to understand, left, that's they don't

2780
02:31:07,160 --> 02:31:11,360
Speaker 2: make guys like you anymore. Right, It's a fucking treasure.

2781
02:31:11,680 --> 02:31:14,720
Speaker 2: Like the Left Sad's letter is a treasure, the podcasts

2782
02:31:14,720 --> 02:31:17,920
Speaker 2: are a treasure. I can't thank you enough for having

2783
02:31:17,959 --> 02:31:19,000
Speaker 2: me on really well.

2784
02:31:19,040 --> 02:31:22,640
Speaker 1: Just to let it on that note. The book and

2785
02:31:22,680 --> 02:31:25,800
Speaker 1: I'm not blowing smoke up your ass does exactly what

2786
02:31:25,840 --> 02:31:30,039
Speaker 1: you set out to do. Literally captures an era. Not

2787
02:31:30,080 --> 02:31:33,959
Speaker 1: only does it capture an era no one else has.

2788
02:31:34,640 --> 02:31:37,680
Speaker 1: You know, you talk about all these movies like Almost Famous.

2789
02:31:37,840 --> 02:31:40,959
Speaker 1: That's a fantasy. That's not the way it worked. Because

2790
02:31:41,000 --> 02:31:44,240
Speaker 1: there was darkness along with the light, and you know

2791
02:31:44,400 --> 02:31:47,800
Speaker 1: people who burned out, and there was it was, you know,

2792
02:31:47,920 --> 02:31:50,720
Speaker 1: a free flowing circus. It was great.

2793
02:31:51,680 --> 02:31:54,720
Speaker 2: Yes, there was a free I say that five times fast.

2794
02:31:54,760 --> 02:31:59,360
Speaker 2: It was a free flowing circus. That's exactly what it was.

2795
02:32:00,280 --> 02:32:03,640
Speaker 1: Okay, by Rap's book, you're gonna love it. And I

2796
02:32:03,680 --> 02:32:07,360
Speaker 1: don't you know, usually boost things, but you know, this

2797
02:32:07,480 --> 02:32:09,120
Speaker 1: is what you're looking for. You want to know the

2798
02:32:09,160 --> 02:32:12,800
Speaker 1: way it was until next time. This is Bob left

2799
02:32:12,879 --> 02:32:13,199
Speaker 1: stets