1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Bonnie got up, smiled, and went out. The elegant woman 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: stretched out her hand for me to shake. We will 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: notify your school. 4 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 2: In a few weeks. It was very nice to meet you. 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: I shook hands all around and backed out of the 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: room in a fog, silent, as if pantomime had. 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: Taken my voice and the urge to speak. 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: On the way home, Mommy kept asking me what happened, 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: and I kept. 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: Mumming nothing, nothing, nothing happened. 11 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: Ashamed that after all those hours of practice with missus Johnson, 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: mister Barone and mister Gaddie, after the expense of new clothes, shoes, 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: and after Mommy had to take a day off from 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: work to take me to Manhattan, after all of that, 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: I had failed the audition and would never ever get 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: out of Brooklyn. 17 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 3: That was Tonya Wardwinnie. Actress Priscilla Lopez reading from Esberlda 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: Santiago's book When I Was Puerto Rican at our live 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 3: event at the ninety second Street Why in twenty eighteen, 20 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 3: Latino USA interviewed the iconic writer about her life and work, 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 3: and today we're bringing that conversation back from our archives 22 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 3: from Futro Media and PRX. It's Latino Usay. I'm Maria 23 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: Ino Posa. Today a conversation with writer Esberralda Santiago live 24 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 3: from the ninety second Street Why in New York City. 25 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 3: Producer Antonia Sereejido is going to take it from here. 26 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 4: This is Tony Award winning actor Priscilla Lopez reading from 27 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 4: Esmeralda Santeo's book When I Was Puerto Rican at our 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 4: live event at the ninety second Street Why. I interviewed 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 4: the iconic writer back in December about her life and work. 30 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 4: Today we are bringing that conversation with Esmeralda to you. 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 4: Esmerldo Santiago moved to Brooklyn, New York from Puerto Rico 32 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 4: at the age of thirteen, and her writing touches on 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 4: the two worlds she inhabited growing up. In her first book, 34 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 4: When I Was Puerto Rican, as one of the recounts 35 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 4: her life as a young, intelligent, and curious Puerto Rican 36 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 4: girl who suddenly finds her world upended when she moves 37 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 4: to New York. I sat down with Esmerda for a 38 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 4: live interview at the ninety second Street Y on the 39 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 4: twenty fifth anniversary of the publishing of When I Was 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 4: Puerto Rican. We kicked off the event with Esmeralda with 41 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 4: the reading you heard at the top of the show. 42 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 4: In the passage, it describes how Aesmeralda felt when she 43 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 4: bombed an audition to get into LaGuardia High School, a 44 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 4: famed arts high school in Manhattan, but she actually got in, 45 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 4: and in this next part, she returns to her high 46 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 4: school years after graduating and runs into one of her 47 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 4: old teachers, who was also one of the judges at 48 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 4: the infamous audition. 49 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: She told me that the panel had ended me to 50 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: leave that day so they could laugh because it was 51 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: so funny to see a fourteen year old Puerto Rican 52 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: girl jabbering out a monologue about a possessive mother in 53 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: law at the turn of the century. The words incomprehensible 54 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: because she went by so fast. We admired, She said, 55 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: the courage it took to stand in front of us 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: and do that and do what you did. So you 57 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: mean I didn't get into the school because of my talent, 58 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: but because I had hutspa. We both laughed. Are any 59 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: of your sisters and brothers in college? 60 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: No, I'm the only one so far. How many of 61 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: you are there? 62 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: By the time I graduated from high school, there were 63 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: eleven of us. 64 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: Eleven. 65 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: She looked at me for a long time, until I 66 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: had to look down. Do you ever think about how 67 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: far you've come? She asked, No, I answered, I never 68 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: stopped to think about it. It might jinx the momentum. 69 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: Let me tell you another story, then, she said. The 70 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: first day of your first year, you were absent. We 71 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: called your house. You said you couldn't come to school 72 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: because you had nothing to wear. I wasn't sure if 73 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: you were joking. I asked to speak to your mother, 74 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: and you translated what she said. She needed you to 75 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: go somewhere with her to interpret. At first, you wouldn't 76 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: tell me where, but then you admitted that you were 77 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: going to the welfare office. You were crying, and I 78 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: had to assure you that you were not the only 79 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: student in the school whose family received public assistance. The 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: next day you were here, bright and eager, and now 81 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: here you are, about to graduate Harvard. I'm glad that 82 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: you made that call, I said, And I'm glad that 83 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: you came to see me, But right now I have 84 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: to teach a class. She stood up, as graceful as 85 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: I remember. 86 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 5: Take care. 87 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: One of these days. 88 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 4: As we just heard, you studied performing arts, but now 89 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 4: you're a writer. So when did you become a writer? 90 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 4: We now know about the beginnings of your performing career. 91 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 6: Well, I've had so many jobs that I you know, 92 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 6: I was constantly trying to make a living, But I 93 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 6: never thought that I would be a writer. I just 94 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 6: I think I became a writer in the process of 95 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 6: the many jobs that I had, so many people that 96 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 6: I met, the many experiences that I lived through, and 97 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 6: began to write really when I realized that stories like 98 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 6: mine were hard to find in the litter in the 99 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 6: United States, and I decided I was tired of being invisible. 100 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 5: In this culture. So I started to write for that reason. 101 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 6: In high school or already no, no, I was already 102 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 6: an adult, I already had children. You know, I've always 103 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 6: been a reader, but I was always aware that I 104 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 6: didn't exist in the literature of the United States. And 105 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 6: I found Nicolassa Moore, I found Peritomas, but that was pretty. 106 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 5: Much that you can find at that time. 107 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 6: And then when I had children, I realized, hmm, my 108 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 6: children are going to have the same kind of questions 109 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 6: about why aren't people who identify with Puerto Rico. Why 110 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 6: are we not visible in this country? And I began 111 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 6: to write about my experience as a Puerto Rican in 112 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 6: the United States as a way of fixing that which 113 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 6: I thought was broken. 114 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 4: You've lived on the US mainland for a long time, 115 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 4: for decades now, and you continue to write about Puerto Rico, 116 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 4: including history, and if you wrote like Concutoa and if 117 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 4: I'm not mistaken, one, if not both of the books 118 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 4: you're writing now are history books. Why continue to write 119 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 4: about Puerto Rico not the US mainland? And what about 120 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 4: history excites you? Well? 121 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 6: I write about Puerto Rico because we all know what's 122 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 6: going on here. 123 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true. So I want to tell a story 124 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 5: that hasn't been told. 125 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 6: And I think everything that I write is history because 126 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 6: everything's in the past. I'm not writing about what's happening 127 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 6: right now in my life. So I'm fascinated by it. 128 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 6: I'm fascinated by how people think history is something that people. 129 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 5: Make or do or make up. 130 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,559 Speaker 6: We make history by existing and moving and doing things 131 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 6: and making choices and making demands or ordering or decisions. 132 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 6: So I think that if because I feel myself as 133 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 6: a person who's creating history, just by existing. That's what 134 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 6: I write about it. I write about existence and about 135 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 6: what happens. And I'm fascinated by the people who are 136 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 6: not in the histories and like my family. 137 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 5: You know, you. 138 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 6: If you look the literature of Puerto Rico, it mostly 139 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 6: was written by white, literate, educated spain descended people. 140 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 5: You know, very very few. 141 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 6: Stories were written like me, like my family, like my 142 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 6: parents and grandparents. You know. 143 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 5: Number one, most of them were. 144 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 6: Illiterate, because the illiteracy was very high in that in 145 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 6: that part of the world. 146 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 5: But also nobody asked them about their lives. You know. 147 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 6: You are Louis Munos Rivera, sitting with your nice suit, 148 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 6: looking at the window at Ahva over there, and you're 149 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 6: writing some romantic ode to Ahivada walking across and how 150 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 6: her hips are moving and all. 151 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 5: That, you know, And I am that hivarita, you know. 152 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 6: And I don't want that guy looking at me that way. 153 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 6: I want him to see how hard it is to 154 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 6: be out on that plowing field with the sun and 155 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 6: you haven't eaten anything. That's the people I want to 156 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 6: write about. And those people didn't exist in our literature, 157 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 6: and it certainly is not in the literature in English 158 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 6: and the United States about Puerto Rican. So I'm that 159 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 6: generation that wanted to fix things, you know. So I 160 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 6: want to fix that too. 161 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 4: Coming up on that, you know, Usa. My conversation with 162 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 4: Israel La San Diego continues. 163 00:09:42,120 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 7: Stay with us, Hey, we're back Esbralda Santiago joined producer 164 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 7: Antonia Serihuido on stage in twenty eighteen for a live 165 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 7: interview about her life. 166 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 3: We returned to that conversation with Antonia s Arihuido now. 167 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 4: As Brada Santiago joined me on stage last year for 168 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 4: a live interview about her life and her work. In 169 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 4: addition to her most famous debut novel, When I Was 170 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 4: Puerto Rican, she also writes historic nonfiction and about her 171 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 4: romantic life, such as in her book The Turkish Lover. 172 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 4: We returned to that conversation. Now, I was rereading Turkish Lover, 173 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 4: and there was a sentence that I really loved. That 174 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 4: was Loss was a Puerto Rican afternoon humming with bees, 175 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 4: the proud cackle of a hen with chicks, the sudden, 176 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 4: loud thunder and pounding rain. 177 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 5: Of a tropical squall. 178 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 4: Loss was not feeling safe even in our own apartments. 179 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 4: Your childhood was marked by hurricane season. You remember big hurricanes. 180 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 4: You recently went back to Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria. 181 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 4: What was it like to grow up with hurricanes and 182 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 4: how did you see the island now when you were 183 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 4: just there? 184 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 6: Well, you know, as a child, the hurricanes, of course 185 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 6: are terrifying when it's happening, not really because you're scared, 186 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 6: but because. 187 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 5: The adults are freaking out, and so you don't know 188 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 5: when you're a kid. 189 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 6: And then of course the very big one that I 190 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 6: remember was Santa Clara. My brother was my young brother 191 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 6: was like forty days old, so I remember it very particularly. 192 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 6: I remember when we came out of our neighbor's home 193 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 6: that there was nothing left. I mean there was nothing left, 194 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 6: and you just can't even as. 195 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 4: A child, like not even trees, right, yeah, you know. 196 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 5: Like or they're stunted. 197 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 6: You know, it's like there were used to be branches 198 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 6: and there's no leaves and. 199 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 5: You can't understand what happened. And then I think. 200 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 6: The fear comes in because you're used to I mean 201 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 6: I remember, you know, you just you're hungry, You go 202 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 6: get a mango or an avocado or a banana, you know, 203 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 6: and all of a sudden, those kinds of things were 204 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 6: not available, but also just how nervous and scared the 205 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 6: adults were because they were supposed to take care of 206 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 6: the children, and we all of a sudden were very 207 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 6: aware of the fact that they couldn't take care of us. 208 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 6: That was something that I've never forgotten and how difficult 209 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 6: it was for them. But you know that climate, within 210 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 6: a week, things begin to flower. It's just the land 211 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 6: was so fertile that very quickly, as a child, I 212 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 6: forgot that this had happened. But of course the parents 213 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 6: are still dealing with this for months, you know, trying 214 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 6: to recover, build a house, get fresh water, get food, 215 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 6: all those kinds of things that as a child you 216 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 6: don't really think about. It just kind of appears, or 217 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 6: you can just pick it off the tree. And so 218 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 6: it's just in Puerto Rico in October. And now, of 219 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 6: course I go there as an adult, having a real 220 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 6: sense of what happened there, having spoken to many of 221 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 6: my friends, and it's a completely different way of looking 222 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 6: at the devastation. Because when you're a little kid, you 223 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 6: don't think, oh, I can't get mangos anymore. But then 224 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 6: when you're an adult and you realize the ecology has 225 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 6: been devastated. You know, I'm as afraid as my parents 226 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 6: and the adults around me were. 227 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 5: Because they knew what was happening in a way that 228 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 5: I didn't. 229 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 4: So you read a lot about the intimate relationships of 230 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 4: your life, and so inevitably you talk about the tower 231 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 4: dynamics between men and women. I remember, in when I 232 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 4: was Puerto Rican, the time where your piano teacher is 233 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 4: inappropriate with you than when your great uncle pinches your 234 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 4: breast and then gives you a dollar. Uh what the 235 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 4: Turkish lever? What the entire book is about a relationship 236 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 4: with a very controlling man. We're living right now through 237 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 4: a moment in which women are demanding that men take 238 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 4: greater responsibilities for their actions. I'm curious what you think 239 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 4: about the me too movement and if it's impacted the 240 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 4: way that you look at your own work. 241 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 6: Well, I think the me too movement is great, not 242 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 6: a moment too soon, you know, I think that it's 243 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:56,479 Speaker 6: really important to be able to be open about these experiences, 244 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 6: because you know, if you are a woman who has 245 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 6: who has been in in some way approached in that 246 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 6: way by a predatory man, you need to be able 247 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 6: to acknowledge that that happened in your life, because otherwise 248 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 6: you carry it as a burden for the rest of 249 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 6: your life with no understanding. So I think it's really 250 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 6: great that women are coming forward and they're talking about 251 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 6: this and they're giving up the shame of that experience, 252 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 6: and that's really important. 253 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 5: And I mean. 254 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 6: For me, when you talk about I write a lot 255 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 6: about my intimate life, do I really I don't know. 256 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 5: I guess I do know I read yourself. 257 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 4: I'm like, I can't look at an excess Facebook page, 258 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 4: let alone like dwell on a moment that I was 259 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 4: like uncomfortable. I'm like, when did she find the strength 260 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 4: to write this? 261 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 6: Well, you know, sometimes I think there was a point 262 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 6: in my life. I don't know when it happened, to 263 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 6: tell you the truth, but there was a moment in 264 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 6: my life when I just gave up shame for a 265 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 6: lot of things that I had no control of. Got 266 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 6: how do we get there? 267 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 5: I don't know what happened. I really I think it's maturity. 268 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 5: I think it's age. 269 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 6: I think it's also realizing that well, you know, as 270 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 6: an example, I have an a twenty year old niece 271 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 6: who's very much a young woman, and she's very very 272 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 6: concerned about what her cohorts think about her, about what 273 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 6: she wears or how she behaves or whatever. And with her, 274 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 6: You're not going to know these people in a few years, 275 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 6: You're not even gonna be around. Why are you worrying 276 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 6: about them? They are not going to be in your life. 277 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 6: I can say that now, you know. But of course 278 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 6: when I was her age, I was freaking out over 279 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 6: wearing the right thing. 280 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 5: And all that kind of thing. 281 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 6: But when you get to a certain point in your life, 282 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 6: you realize, you know, those things are really not that important, 283 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 6: and that there are people who are going to be 284 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 6: in your life for the rest of your life, and 285 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 6: those people you treasure, you value, you respect, and you 286 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 6: you're with right and then there's a lot of people 287 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 6: that who cares what they think, you know, And so 288 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 6: I got to that point where I don't care. I 289 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 6: think a lot of the humiliations that I had when 290 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 6: I first came to the United States it was because 291 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 6: I was ashamed of the way that people were responding 292 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 6: to me, and I wasn't realizing that, wait a second, 293 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 6: the thing that I'm doing are really good. 294 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 5: You know, I'm working really hard. 295 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 6: To learn English, to have a job, to be educated, 296 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 6: to do all these positive things, and all these people 297 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 6: are saying nasty things about me. 298 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 5: This is not about me. This is about them. This 299 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 5: is their problem. I'm not gonna worry about them. 300 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 6: But you know, it's a process of reaching that point. 301 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 6: And I wish I had a I could do that 302 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 6: and say dah, But you have to find that place 303 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 6: in your own life and make that decision. And it 304 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 6: really is a decision, I think, because when you give 305 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 6: up shame, you also give up a lot of people 306 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 6: because they make you feel bad. But you get used 307 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 6: to feeling bad from that person, and so after a 308 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 6: while you're just going like, why am I spending my 309 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 6: time with this person? 310 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 5: Doesn't make no sense, you know. 311 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 4: I don't think anyone has learned to read as many 312 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 4: times as you have. First you learned to read Spanish 313 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 4: in Puerto Rico and you're a child. Then you came 314 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 4: to the United States and you learned to read in English. 315 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 4: And then nearly ten years ago, you had a stroke 316 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 4: and you lost the ability to read and write, and 317 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 4: then you regained it. I'm curious for those who don't 318 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 4: know the story of what happened with your stroke. If 319 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 4: you could talk a little bit about that, and then 320 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 4: what have you learned about learning through this process? 321 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, well, you know, I just woke up one day 322 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 6: and I couldn't understand anything that was that I've tried 323 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 6: to read. It's one of the first things I do 324 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 6: in the morning is I read the paper. And I realized, 325 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 6: I have. 326 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 5: No idea this is written in? What language? 327 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 7: Is this? 328 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 5: You know? 329 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 6: And I called my doctor, of course, and they discovered 330 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 6: that I had a very signe of a head of 331 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 6: a pin stroke and it affected only the reading and 332 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 6: writing comprehension. So I could write anything. I had no 333 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 6: problems writing, but I didn't know I couldn't read it. 334 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 6: And I didn't know that what I was writing made 335 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 6: any sense because I couldn't understand it. But I did 336 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 6: at a very early stage, I realized I could understand 337 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 6: everything that was said to me. So I said, well, 338 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 6: you know, I started listening to audiobooks and because I 339 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 6: have to read otherwise I would die. 340 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 5: And so I. 341 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 6: Realized at one point, I like, you know, the same 342 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 6: thing happened to me when I came to the United States. 343 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 5: I could look at a book and I didn't understand 344 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 5: what it said. 345 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 6: You know, I have to do the same thing, And 346 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 6: my doctors told me, you know, the brain is elastic 347 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 6: and it can find other ways to do the same thing. 348 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 6: So that's I basically started to learn how to read 349 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 6: and write again the way I would have when I 350 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 6: was a little kid, writing, you know, with a primer 351 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 6: and just little by little until I was a to 352 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 6: understand simple concepts, and then went on until I was 353 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 6: able to do the whole thing. But it was a process. 354 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 6: You know. 355 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 4: One of my favorite aspects of the story. You did 356 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 4: a piece on Latin Know USA about this that you 357 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 4: had a friend who brought you a stack of newspapers. 358 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, he so this friend, Yeah, when I told 359 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 6: him what had happened, he called me and I told 360 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 6: him a bit happening, and so he said, well, I'm 361 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 6: coming over, you know, And so he showed up with 362 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 6: a stack of magazines like this, and at the very 363 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 6: top it's something like you know, children's books or children's stories, 364 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 6: and then Tiger Beat, and then People Magazine, and then 365 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 6: Good Housekeeping. 366 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 5: At the very bottom was the New Yorker. 367 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 6: So he said, you just start at the top and 368 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 6: when you get down there you know that you are okay. 369 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 5: And I thought it was so wonderful, you know, And 370 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 5: there was a point in. 371 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 6: My life when I know way too much about Britney 372 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 6: Spears and Justice Beat. 373 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 5: You know, It's like I had I really. 374 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 6: Knew the culture everything. I knew all the affairs, I 375 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 6: had read all that stuff. But it was a wonderful 376 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 6: It was a wonderful idea. And he was an educator 377 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 6: and it was very smart. But he did that, and 378 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 6: I'm a good student, so I did that. 379 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 5: And you know what did I learn about learning? I 380 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 5: learned that. 381 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 6: You can learn anything at any point if you apply 382 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 6: yourself and if you believe that you can do it. 383 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 5: I think I was very fortunate. 384 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 6: I didn't have massive muscular issues with my stroke, so 385 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 6: I could really concentrate how do I understand things? And 386 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,719 Speaker 6: I did it. 387 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 4: Thank you to Esma La Santio for joining us for 388 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 4: our live event, which marked the twenty fifth anniversary of 389 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 4: the publication of her book When I Was Puerto Rican. 390 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 3: This episode was produced by Sejer Quevedo and Antonia Serejido. 391 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 3: It was edited by Sophia Parisa car. 392 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 5: The La Tido USA team includes. 393 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 3: Andrea Lopez Russlo, Marta Martinez, Daisy Contreras, Mike Sargent, Victoria Strada, 394 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 3: Rinaldo Leanos, Junior Alejandra Salasar, Patricia Ubaran and Julia Rocha, 395 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 3: with help from Raoul Berez. Our editorial director is Fernande Santos. 396 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 3: Our director of Engineering is Stephanie lebou. Our senior engineer 397 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 3: is Julia Caruso. Our associate engineers are Gabriel Abiaz and 398 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 3: j J Carubin. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our 399 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 3: New York Women's Foundation fellow is Elizabeth Lowenthal Torres. Our 400 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 3: theme music was composed by Zania Ruinos. I'm your host 401 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 3: and executive producer Marguino Posa. Join us again on our 402 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 3: next episode. In the meantime, look for us on social 403 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 3: media at Latino USA and remember l Devay Yes, don't 404 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 3: go anywhere. 405 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 5: A stell approximate Joe. 406 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 8: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Annie E. 407 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 8: Casey Foundation creates a brighter future for the nation's children 408 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 8: by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, and transforming communities. 409 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 8: The New York Women's Foundation funding women leaders that build 410 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 8: solutions in their communities. And celebrating thirty years of radical 411 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 8: generosity and funding for Latino usa is Coverage of a 412 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 8: culture of health is made possible, in part by a 413 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 8: grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. 414 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 4: How many New Yorkers are in the audience.