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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, this is Lee Clasgow and we're Talking Transports.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Lee Clascow, senior Freight, transportation and logistics analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's end house research arm of almost five hundred analysts

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Speaker 1: and strategists around the globe. Before diving in a little

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Speaker 1: public service announcement, your support is instrumental to keep bringing

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Speaker 1: great guests and conversations to you, our listeners, and we

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Speaker 1: need your support. So please, if you enjoy this podcast,

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Speaker 1: share it, like it and leave a comment. Also, if

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Speaker 1: you have any ideas for future episodes or just want

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Speaker 1: to talk transports, please hit me up on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: terminal or on LinkedIn or Twitter at Logistics.

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Speaker 2: Lee.

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Speaker 1: Now onto our episode We're delighted to have with us

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Speaker 1: today and Ranky the CEO and President of the Intermodal

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Speaker 1: Association of North America or AYANA, position she's held since

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Speaker 1: September of twenty twenty four, and join Diana following four

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Speaker 1: years as President and CEO of the Transportation Intermediaries Association

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Speaker 1: or TIA, the leading advocate for three pls prior to

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Speaker 1: her tenure at TIA. She spent two years as Deputy

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Speaker 1: Assistant Secretary with the US Department of Transportation and sixteen

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Speaker 1: years with CSX.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Talking Transports.

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Speaker 3: And thank you Lee, so happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: Great. So Diana is a trade organization.

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Speaker 1: Can you give us some details about your members and

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Speaker 1: you know kind of what your mission is?

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Speaker 3: Sure? So the mission is to grow the intermodal market

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Speaker 3: share and to advocate on and educate and provide any

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Speaker 3: kind of resources to our intermodal members. And so those

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Speaker 3: in the audience who don't know what intermodal means, because

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Speaker 3: I found that much of America does not that the

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Speaker 3: is the transfer of cargo freight in a container from

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Speaker 3: a vessel to a truck to a train. And so

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Speaker 3: our members are those ocean going vessels, those drayage trucks,

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Speaker 3: those Class one and short line railroads. Uh. And we

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Speaker 3: have the chassis providers, we have the third party logistics folks,

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Speaker 3: and all the other vendors and such who are in

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Speaker 3: the intermodal ecosystem as they.

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Speaker 1: Say, right, And for those that want to learn more,

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Speaker 1: we've had a lot of those ecosystem companies and managers

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. So go back and be sure to

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Speaker 1: check out some of that if you want, if you

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Speaker 1: want to learn more. And you know, also there's two

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Speaker 1: types of intermodal, just for since we're educating the folks

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Speaker 1: out there.

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Speaker 2: There's international and there's domestic.

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Speaker 1: Domestic is it originates on a truck and then it

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Speaker 1: ends on a truck in the middle parts of the

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Speaker 1: railroad and international, as an mentioned, you know, starts on

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Speaker 1: a ship and comes to a port and then moves

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Speaker 1: across into the supply chains either directly onto a rail

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Speaker 1: than a.

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Speaker 2: Truck or a truck rail truck. So intermodal. That is

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Speaker 2: intermodal in a nutshell.

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Speaker 3: So there it is. We educated everybody. Now we can

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Speaker 3: just say goodbye.

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Speaker 2: I don't want you to go yet. Yeah, yeah, not yet.

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Speaker 2: Le no no.

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Speaker 1: And so this is a relatively new role for you,

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Speaker 1: is it? What's the biggest thing I guess you've learned

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Speaker 1: in the role since starting Aana.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is maybe a commonality between my time at

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Speaker 3: TIA and my time at DIANA. I am succeeding at

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Speaker 3: Ayana a woman, Jony Casey, who was there for twenty

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Speaker 3: seven years. The organization is thirty four years old. At TIA,

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Speaker 3: I succeeded a gentleman, Bob Woltman, who had been there

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Speaker 3: for twenty years, and that organization was a little bit older.

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Speaker 3: I think we celebrated our forty fifth anniversary of five

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Speaker 3: recall while I was there. So AnyWho, what does this

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Speaker 3: say about me? I am here to provide a new

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Speaker 3: perspective and I'm delighted to do so. What I have

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Speaker 3: found is our members are very very good about knowing

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Speaker 3: each other and knowing the business. And what my challenge

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Speaker 3: will be is to grow it by being more externally facing.

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Speaker 3: So whether that's on Capitol Hill, or whether that's through

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Speaker 3: public relations, or whether that's through new and mainstream media.

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Speaker 3: That is where we sort of feel like we need

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Speaker 3: to take the organization.

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Speaker 2: Or going onto award winning podcast like Talking.

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Speaker 3: Transports or exactly, this is where it all starts.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic. So you mentioned Washington. So you're a trade group,

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Speaker 1: so obviously you do some lobbying. What are the big

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Speaker 1: priorities for AANA and Washington right now?

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Speaker 3: Well, you're going to be shocked about this lead, but

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Speaker 3: the organization did not actually do much lobbying until two

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Speaker 3: years ago. And we have an outside lobbyist who just

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Speaker 3: registered this year. Because the board at that time. Our

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Speaker 3: chair is Trevor Ash you may know him. He is

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Speaker 3: currently the chair. Heath that he and the board members

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Speaker 3: decided we needed to do a better job of advocating

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Speaker 3: for ourselves on Capitol Hill and letting that world know

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Speaker 3: us better, because how do you get into the conversation

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Speaker 3: if you're not at the dinner table, as they say, so,

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Speaker 3: we now have started lobbying. We do have congressional priorities.

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Speaker 3: Much of that is your sort of kind of bread

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Speaker 3: and butter stuff, for example, preserving the independent contractor model, which,

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Speaker 3: as you may or may not know, eighty percent of

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Speaker 3: the draage drivers are independent contractors, meaning they do not

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Speaker 3: have an employer. So we were delighted to see last

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Speaker 3: week that the Trump administration had decided to pause enforcement

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Speaker 3: of the Biden era rule, which we believed may it

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Speaker 3: much easier to be declared an employee as opposed to

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Speaker 3: an independent contractor, and that has a negative impact on

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Speaker 3: that workforce who honestly don't want to have an employer.

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Speaker 3: They want to work for themselves. So we'll see where

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Speaker 3: that goes, but that was a positive sign last week.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you want me to pause there

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Speaker 3: and then before I launch into the other things we're

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Speaker 3: working on.

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Speaker 1: No, Actually, I was very surprised the fact that you

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Speaker 1: said you guys didn't do much lobbying two years, because

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know what trade organizations did outside of,

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Speaker 1: you know, advocating for themselves on Washington.

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Speaker 2: So that's pretty pretty interesting.

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Speaker 1: And just also for anyone that's listening that's a Bloomberg customer,

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Speaker 1: we actually have AANA data on the terminal.

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Speaker 2: It's monthly volume data.

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Speaker 1: You can see that at BI space r AI L

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Speaker 1: for birail. Anyway, that's that's the commercial that we'll add

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: So and so, yeah, please tell us what is it?

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Speaker 2: What are the other things that you guys are looking at.

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Speaker 3: You have had a number of folks on lead talking

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Speaker 3: about cargo theft that has affected the intermodal community dramatically,

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Speaker 3: specifically on the railroad. But also you know, we have

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Speaker 3: three pails and imcs who you've had on before, who

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Speaker 3: are talking a lot about fraud and the sort of

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Speaker 3: spoofing and fishing that have afforded a lot of criminals

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Speaker 3: and opportunity to steal, you know, under false pretenses. So

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Speaker 3: we are supportive of legislation that would seek to a

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Speaker 3: penalize those criminals by providing more resources at the federal

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Speaker 3: level or just providing, for example, the FMCSA the kind

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Speaker 3: of stick to to really penalize those folks who are

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Speaker 3: fraudulent actors, and also creating a multi modal federal you know,

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Speaker 3: private sector intelligence gathering task force, a fraud task force.

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Speaker 3: Because you know, I like I've said this a couple

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Speaker 3: of times, I liken it too. After nine to eleven,

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Speaker 3: when the railroads developed the Transportation Security Ops Center the TSOC,

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Speaker 3: which is now housed within USDOT, that was the first

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Speaker 3: example of a private sector taking sort of you know,

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Speaker 3: something that would be helpful, having intelligence from the public sector,

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Speaker 3: whatever the threat level was, whatever the assessment level was,

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Speaker 3: and you know, providing the private sector actors to help that.

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Speaker 3: We think that could be an excellent analog to what

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Speaker 3: we do today as a release to cargo theft, because

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Speaker 3: it's not just one entity that can solve for this. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: it's a lot of collaboration, both private and public. So

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Speaker 3: we're we're hopeful that those two bills could progress their

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Speaker 3: bipartisan which is unusual these days. So we're hopeful about that.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I'm just curious.

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Speaker 1: So you know, if you guys create this task force,

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Speaker 1: obviously your members have are various types of companies with

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Speaker 1: different balance sheets and financial situation.

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Speaker 2: So like, I guess who pays for that?

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Speaker 1: Is something that your members would pay for and then

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Speaker 1: the federal government would help subsidize.

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Speaker 3: Is that well, so in this particular case, it would

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Speaker 3: actually be paid for by federal tax dollars because it

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Speaker 3: would be operated by the Feds. We would just be

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Speaker 3: able to contribute to it in terms of our own

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Speaker 3: intelligence and our own information. We have at Ayana a

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Speaker 3: Cargo Theft Task Force obviously a volunteer position where we

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Speaker 3: are developing our own best practices as well as intelligence

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Speaker 3: gathering and education. That itself is something that our members

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Speaker 3: have been clamoring for for the past two years. Again, Lee,

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Speaker 3: this has been sort of gripped from the headlines, as

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Speaker 3: you know, for a couple of years, and so we

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Speaker 3: were able to establish that this year to provide at

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Speaker 3: least a forum for our folks to get together and

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Speaker 3: talk about, well, how can we improve this and what

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Speaker 3: are be seeing? So, you know, are we going to

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Speaker 3: solve for it this year? No? But as my old

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Speaker 3: Boss said, if we can provide a lot of heat,

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Speaker 3: light and thunder towards those bad actors who are stealing

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Speaker 3: and you know, have absolutely no remorse and are looking

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Speaker 3: to gather as much as twenty five thousand dollars a

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Speaker 3: week just by pilfridge and ripping open container doors and

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Speaker 3: taking out packages. If we can solve you know, a

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Speaker 3: little bit of heat, light and thunder so that people

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Speaker 3: feel deterred, that's a great first step.

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Speaker 2: Right, that makes perfect sense, you know.

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Speaker 1: So at the time of recording this, we just had

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Speaker 1: some good news when it comes to tariffs, a de

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Speaker 1: escalation between the US and China. We'll see where that

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Speaker 1: goes in a ninety day pause. Obviously tarifs are not

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Speaker 1: good for intermodal whatsoever. What has been Iada's position on

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Speaker 1: the Trump's trade policies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's funny because we just had our business

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Speaker 3: meeting Lee out in Kansas City and Larry Gross, who

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Speaker 3: you mentioned, you know, does our data analysis for intermodal data,

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Speaker 3: was out there and he said, I love Larry Gross.

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Speaker 3: How can you not love Larry Gross? He said, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was really optimistic until April second. Everything was looking

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Speaker 3: great until April second, So yeah, there has been an impact.

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Speaker 3: What we have been outwardly, you know, outspoken about, in particular,

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Speaker 3: was that section three on one China shipbuilding proposal, which

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Speaker 3: would have you know, levy a fee against a Chinese

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Speaker 3: vessel for every port of call. Now obviously you know

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Speaker 3: that's been amended, and now there's comments on the docket

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Speaker 3: for you know, a twenty to tariff on containers made

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Speaker 3: in China. And as you may or may not know,

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Speaker 3: you do know Glee because you know everything. The domestic

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Speaker 3: intermodal containers, the fifty three footers are only made in China.

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Speaker 3: There there are no dem stick manufacturers that those containers. Now,

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Speaker 3: the problem, of course is that because freight volumes have

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Speaker 3: been in a slump for two years, they're not a

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Speaker 3: whole lot of people buying containers right now, right, So

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Speaker 3: that will depend if we are more outwardly spoken on that.

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Speaker 3: But we were part of this National Retail Federation, you know,

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Speaker 3: conglomeration who spoke out against Section three oh one ship building.

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Speaker 3: We have information on our website that would lead you

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Speaker 3: to believe that we're very, very concerned about the uncertainty

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Speaker 3: that tariffs render our businesses At this point, will we

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Speaker 3: be more outspoken than that? You know, I think if

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Speaker 3: we're continuing to have a pause as we are with

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Speaker 3: most of the countries and now announced as you said

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Speaker 3: with China, I think we can work perhaps not as

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Speaker 3: outwardly critical and perhaps just behind the scenes. But we'll

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Speaker 3: see how that goes.

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Speaker 1: Right understood, And it's interesting with the Chinese built chips

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Speaker 1: from the US trade representatives that those those those.

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Speaker 2: Fees that they want to enact. It's very interesting.

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Speaker 1: So like Maris said on their earnings call, that they

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Speaker 1: pretty much can swap out their their fleet, so the

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Speaker 1: Chinese made ships that they do own or operate just

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Speaker 1: won't come to the US, so go in other trades.

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Speaker 1: And the podcast that we have out recently with Norton Hamish,

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Speaker 1: who is the president of a Starbuck, a major dryball carrier,

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Speaker 1: he didn't think it was a big deal either, just

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Speaker 1: they could just swap their ships out. I guess it's

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Speaker 1: really going to be impactful for those large fleets that

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Speaker 1: have predominantly their fleets Chinese, Chinese made, which is the

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Speaker 1: majority of I mean those shipyards, Chinese shipyards are the

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Speaker 1: majority of it's where the majority of ships come from.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, just interesting times.

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Speaker 3: And that's why I think we see so many companies

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Speaker 3: who've had three sets of outlooks or two sets of

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Speaker 3: outlooks as to how the rest of the year is

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Speaker 3: going to go, because it really is so dependent on

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Speaker 3: our trade profile and what we're what the administration, this

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Speaker 3: administration is planning to do. I mean, the fact that

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Speaker 3: we have a deal with UK, the fact that we

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Speaker 3: paused with China. These are all good things because right

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Speaker 3: now you probably already saw there's there are thirty percent

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Speaker 3: down in the Port of La Long Beach, so there

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Speaker 3: will be it will be tough times for the US market.

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Speaker 3: So I hope that there's a gradual awakening and recognition.

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Speaker 1: Of that, Yeah, we're giving ourselves some medicine for a

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Speaker 1: self inflicted wound.

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Speaker 2: It's very very interesting times.

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Speaker 1: Are there any other adding, other regulatory priorities that you

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Speaker 1: know you're focused on. And I'm just curious because the TIA,

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Speaker 1: that's it's it's mostly freight brokers, right, the TIA, Right,

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Speaker 1: And I know you're not there anymore, you don't speak

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Speaker 1: for them, but is there was there much? Is there

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Speaker 1: much overlap in terms of priorities in Washington? Between the

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Speaker 1: two organizations. Yeah, I would say what's important to you,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily working together, but what's import sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so there obviously have been leaders on cargo theft

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Speaker 3: and continue to do so. Their membership is eighty percent

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Speaker 3: truck facing, so they have a little bit more interest

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Speaker 3: in the goings on at the FMCSA compared to our membership.

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Speaker 3: But we do care about what happens at the FMCSA.

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Speaker 3: We wrote comments against this broker transparency stuff which they

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Speaker 3: reopened and now who knows what is going to end

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Speaker 3: up happening what the disposition of that is. But one

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Speaker 3: of the last things I'll mention is that we also

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Speaker 3: are are we're asked for our commentary and priorities on

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Speaker 3: surface transportation reauthorization and as you know, the Highway Bill

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Speaker 3: as they used to call it, is reauthorized every six years,

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Speaker 3: and there's an opportunity for a feeding frenzy for all

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Speaker 3: kinds of transportation stakeholders. For us, we want there to

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Speaker 3: be permitting reform because it just takes too long for

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Speaker 3: a project to get developed. As you know, would love

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Speaker 3: to have project delivery reform so that they're you know,

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Speaker 3: the applications themselves weren't two hundred pages and didn't lead

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Speaker 3: to a six hundred app you know, six hundred page

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Speaker 3: application from from the actual applying party. And we would

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Speaker 3: love to see intermodal projects receives some of the grant funding.

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Speaker 3: Now what happens to those grants is an open question

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Speaker 3: because there's not a lot of money and the Trump

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Speaker 3: administration has not indicated they want to spend a lot

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Speaker 3: of money.

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Speaker 2: But we'll see, gotcha. So I guess you know.

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Speaker 1: So you said you guys were coming up your business

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Speaker 1: planning meeting. What do you guys do during that besides

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Speaker 1: you know, eat, eat, and drink too much? What what do

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Speaker 1: you guys do during this time?

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Speaker 3: You can drink too much? I am a very disciplined individual.

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Speaker 3: We have This is where our committee structure really is showcased.

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Speaker 3: So we have, just like many a trade associations, you

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Speaker 3: have committees of like minded, interested people who are working

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Speaker 3: on the kind of sticky, thorny weedy issues. So those

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Speaker 3: things that don't make the headlines, but are you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of nagging problems are of interest to the bulk

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Speaker 3: of our membership. So for example, we have our Operations committee.

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Speaker 3: They get together, they talk about things that could improve

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Speaker 3: our efficiencies. For example, we have our maintenance or repair

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Speaker 3: committee and they talk about how, you know, rotability issues

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Speaker 3: like the responsibility for who you know, inspecting the chassis

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Speaker 3: and how to make that process better and that kind

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Speaker 3: of thing. And so those folks get together, they talk

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Speaker 3: to each other, and so really it's an education session

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Speaker 3: for those folks who are not on the committee. They

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Speaker 3: can listen in and hear how these committees are talking

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Speaker 3: about the kind of things that matter to them. But

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Speaker 3: it's also an opportunity for everyone to get together in network.

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Speaker 3: And as far as I could tell, maybe they're just

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Speaker 3: blowing smoke, but I think they had a really positive

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Speaker 3: time because sometimes you feel like you're acting alone. And

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Speaker 3: so when you have people who are brought together and

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Speaker 3: you think, oh wait, my problems are not just my problems.

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Speaker 3: My problems are shared and there is a solution, that's

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Speaker 3: an important thing that a trade association can provide.

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Speaker 1: So coming off these meetings, you know, what is the

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Speaker 1: state of the North America intermodial market.

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Speaker 3: Well, we're concerned how about that. As you know this,

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Speaker 3: truck spot rates were pretty flat to sluggish. And so

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Speaker 3: when truck spot rates are flat to sluggish, that has

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Speaker 3: a negative impact on intermodal. Whether that will change, Lee,

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Speaker 3: you may know better than I. Right now, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: look like it will just because of this, you know,

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Speaker 3: thirty percent decrease in volumes coming in from the ports,

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Speaker 3: for example, but that has an impact on intermodial. So

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Speaker 3: you know, when we talk about growing the intermodal mission,

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Speaker 3: growing the innomoential market market share, we have to do

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Speaker 3: it in a couple of ways. One is to persuade

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Speaker 3: those who only truck load that intermodal is a competitive,

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Speaker 3: you know, competitive alternative. And two is to educate people

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Speaker 3: who've never even heard of intermodal. And so that's it

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Speaker 3: can be challenging if this is anecdotal. If people have

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Speaker 3: a negative experience with intermodal, they'll say I'll never use

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Speaker 3: intermodal again, Whereas if they have a negative experience with

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Speaker 3: the truck, they'll say, I'll just pick another truck. Right,

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Speaker 3: So it's not exactly a fair distinction. But what we

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Speaker 3: need to prove is that we have equally as good

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Speaker 3: service better rates. I can't really talk about rates, as

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Speaker 3: you know, because of anti trust concern but but you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, we have to show that we

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Speaker 3: have a competitive product, and so that is incumbent on

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Speaker 3: us to do. We have to educate people about it,

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Speaker 3: and we have to show that we're you know, we're

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Speaker 3: a really good alternative.

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Speaker 2: Right and you mentioned, you know, spot rates.

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Speaker 1: You know, my crystal brawl right now is cracked and foggy,

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Speaker 1: and so like you know, it's it's pretty pretty tough

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Speaker 1: to tell in the beginning of the ear is extremely

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Speaker 1: bullish in the contractual mark in the spot market. You know,

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Speaker 1: you just don't know what's going to happen from the

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Speaker 1: day to day with what's coming out of Washington, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, but.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you mentioned spot rates, So like I guess,

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Speaker 1: also fuel prices come into play, you know when you're

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Speaker 1: looking at intermodal versus trucking. Because in a lower fuel environment,

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Speaker 1: which we're currently heading down with oil where it is today,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's not necessarily good for intermodal, correct, No, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, if you think about railroads, they used to say

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Speaker 3: they get four hundred and eighty five miles per gallon

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Speaker 3: or some such stat And so if there's a high

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Speaker 3: fuel priced environment, then that benefits intermodal for sure. But

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Speaker 3: if we're in a lower environment, no, I mean, so again,

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Speaker 3: you have flat spot rates and then you have a

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Speaker 3: lower fuel prices. That makes certainly international intermodal dicey. Larry.

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Speaker 3: I will not try to speak for Larry's wisdom because

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Speaker 3: Larry's the wisest. But Larry has a little bit more

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Speaker 3: confidence in domestic intermodal this year. He doesn't think it

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Speaker 3: will be impacted. But you know, we have to see.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and so you know, just you can't talk rates,

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Speaker 2: I can talk rates. So like just for.

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Speaker 1: Those listening out there, intermodal tends to be cheaper than truckload,

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Speaker 1: you know, at the discount you know, our rule of thumb.

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Speaker 1: Whether it's right or wrong, I'm really not sure, but

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Speaker 1: it's usually like anywhere between five to thirty percent cheaper

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Speaker 1: than trucking alone. And the trade off is that you know,

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Speaker 1: truck can go from point A to point B, they

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Speaker 1: can go to door to door, so quote unquote it

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Speaker 1: might provide a little service. So service on intermodal is

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Speaker 1: really tied to rail fluidity, right, And I don't know,

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Speaker 1: can you talk about what your rail partners are doing

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Speaker 1: or your rail members are doing to you know, improve

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Speaker 1: their service. So the intermodial products of better product.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you you saw the twenty twenty one was

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Speaker 3: a bad year for the railroads and it was a

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Speaker 3: lot of combinations of things. You know, they furload a

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Speaker 3: lot of people and then just as the surge started

387
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Speaker 3: happening with freight, there is this precision scheduled railroading, which

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Speaker 3: we don't need to comment on exhaustively, but it does

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Speaker 3: impact the operations and certainly it can become snarled while

390
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Speaker 3: they tried to implement PSR. So that was that was very,

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Speaker 3: very challenging for the railroads. The service metrics now are

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Speaker 3: dramatically improved, and to a railroad, I would say, you know,

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Speaker 3: CSX has acknowledged in their earnings releases that they have

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Speaker 3: the challenge of the Baltimore the Key Bridge, and then

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Speaker 3: the Howard Street tunnel work and the Hurricane Helen in

396
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Speaker 3: North Carolina. So yeah, there's still some operational challenges, but

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Speaker 3: by and large work the product is enormously improved. And

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Speaker 3: so if they are continuing to put in an investment,

399
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Speaker 3: if they are continuing to scrutinize their operations, then that

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Speaker 3: helps us dramatically.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: We've seen bidly speaking network fluidity, so we measure it

403
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Speaker 1: by train speeds and dwell times both both improving, you know,

404
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Speaker 1: and that actually data is available in the Bloomberg turtable

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: B I Rail, I'd be sure to tune in. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, you talked about winning share.

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Speaker 1: Are there parts of the market that you have more

409
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Speaker 1: of an opportunity? Is it really domestic intermodial, is it

410
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Speaker 1: cross border intermodial, whether it's between US and Mexico, US

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Speaker 1: and Canada, maybe even Canada to Mexico. So are there

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Speaker 1: pockets of opportunity that are more than others?

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Speaker 3: Well, I will say this, we're really really excited about

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Speaker 3: what's going on cross border with Mexico. It's become and

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Speaker 3: you know this from all all kinds of logistics providers.

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Speaker 3: They're looking at Mexico for any number of reasons. But

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Speaker 3: we're excited about that because we've seen a really the

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Speaker 3: first quarter of this year, we've seen I think it

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Speaker 3: was something like eighteen percent growth in cross border traffic

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Speaker 3: and that's a potential resource for the future. Obviously, tariffs,

421
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Speaker 3: you know, continue to be a question mark there, but

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Speaker 3: that is a great potential potential future growth opportunity for

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Speaker 3: intermodal that we look at in terms of other pockets

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Speaker 3: of growth you know, I think for US, it's really

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Speaker 3: how do we how do we convert those folks who

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Speaker 3: are convinced that truck is the only way to go

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Speaker 3: with providing a truck like service.

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Speaker 1: And your members it's Canada, US and Mexico or just Canada.

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Speaker 3: US, Canada, US and Mexico.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And so you know, are there regions that

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Speaker 1: are have I guess more opportunities, whether it's Canada, US

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Speaker 1: Mexico or you know, in the east of the US,

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Speaker 1: west of the US, or are there certain areas that

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Speaker 1: just have more opportunities for whatever the reason is.

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Speaker 3: Well, so the East gets challenged when.

436
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: Eastern US, yes.

437
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 3: The East, sorry, not the east of the world. The

438
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 3: East gets gets challenged when truck rates are low because

439
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 3: it's very, very hard to compete with truck on the

440
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 3: East Coast because you just don't have those long distances.

441
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 3: As you know, they are a little less affected by

442
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: the Chinese traffic, the you know, the the like Long

443
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 3: Beach and La Long Beach is but they are they

444
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 3: are impacted if truck rates are low. So on the

445
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 3: West Coast, they're highly impacted by imports going down, but

446
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 3: can be more competitive to truck because they're going to

447
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 3: be longer distances. So in terms of the future, look

448
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 3: we got to go. We can't just look at one

449
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: particular marketplace. I think we have to improve it all large,

450
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 3: which is the whole point of having a public relations

451
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 3: campaign is to really educate those folks who don't know

452
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 3: enough about intermodal as an option to recognize why it matters.

453
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 3: And so we have to talk to the shippers who

454
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 3: are currently either have used it before and don't use

455
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: it any longer, or the shippers who've never used it

456
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 3: and don't even think to use it, And so that

457
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 3: is it is a challenge as to what is the

458
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 3: message that resonates the most. We had a kind of

459
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: tentative or not tentative, what's the word I'm looking for whatever,

460
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 3: the kind of initial there we go, initial analysis that

461
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 3: said that they're looking for reliability, and of course they are,

462
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 3: of course they're looking for reliability. Obviously price matters too,

463
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 3: but you really want reliability. I mean, this is what

464
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 3: we found after COVID. People just want things when they

465
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 3: want things, and there's a greater expectation that if you

466
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: order it today, you'll get it tomorrow or in the

467
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: next couple of days. It just is we've changed forever

468
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 3: how we anticipate what we order, how we anticipate what,

469
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 3: you know, what comes to us. And so if railroads

470
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 3: are going to be part of that, then we also

471
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 3: have intermodals can be part of that. Then we have

472
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 3: to change those expectations on our end.

473
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: Too, right. And you know, so you guys, do you

474
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 2: know you're doing lobbying, you do other trade group stuff.

475
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: You also you have a like a couple of conferences

476
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: or a major conference every year.

477
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 2: Do you want to talk about that?

478
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 3: We do lead? Haven't you spoken it before?

479
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: A long time? A long time ago. I wasn't asked

480
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: back for quite some time.

481
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: What you do do you think?

482
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: I thought I did an okay job, Chris?

483
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: You know what because Larry Gross is there and like

484
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: I just yet, I can't I can't outshine him.

485
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 3: So he took all the limelight. Well, yes, we have

486
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: a big annual conference in September in Long Beach. It's

487
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 3: in Long Beach till twenty thirty one, So book your

488
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 3: hotel rooms now. But it wolf see if we can

489
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: get you back lead. But that's that is about everything

490
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: that anybody is interested in terms of intermodal all the

491
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: all the bodies are there. They're all there. Everybody in

492
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 3: the intermodal marketplace is at that conference, and they're doing

493
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: deals and they're you know, getting business, and we try

494
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 3: to provide a compelling forum so that they can actually

495
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 3: learn more and you know, get educated. So that's our responsibility,

496
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 3: but also just providing them networking opportunities as well, and

497
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: then we have this expo hall where they can see

498
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: the kind of the new stuff. One of the things

499
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: you know about TIA Lead that they've done very well

500
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 3: is that they have a technology conference called Technovations. It's like,

501
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: should I call TIA and say you should pay me

502
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 3: for all the stuff I've said about you. But one

503
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 3: of the things that I think is going to be

504
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 3: incumbent on us, just going back to what I was

505
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: just saying, how we have to convince shippers of choice

506
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 3: that we are an alternative. I think embracing technology even

507
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 3: more so than we are today is going to be

508
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: a critical need. And part of it is because of

509
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 3: you know, there's demand for visibility like we just talked about,

510
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 3: and part of it is because of cargo theft, meaning

511
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 3: you have to know where everything is at all times.

512
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: But I think that there's a person option that railroads

513
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: are old right, because they are. They've been around a

514
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: long time. But you know, if we can continue to

515
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: focus on bringing it into the technological age, I think

516
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: that will be important. And when we'll have young cool

517
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: people at our conferences the expo and who doesn't want

518
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 3: young cool people at their conferences? I can't think of anybody,

519
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 3: So that's that's going to be something that will work

520
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: on as well. I mean, you're young and Koli, so obviously.

521
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 2: I'm young for a fifty five year old man.

522
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: Yes, it's all relatives who are speaking before the recording.

523
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: So I'm glad you mentioned technology.

524
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: You know what Ziada's position on autonomous truck game, because

525
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: obviously it will impact it could impact your your drage

526
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: members do do you guys have a position on it

527
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: at all?

528
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: We're yeah, we're neutral on it. Here's here's an Ranky's

529
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 3: position on it is that the technology happens whether or

530
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,239
Speaker 3: not you take a position on it. And I mean, right, like,

531
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: if you think back to any development that's ever happened

532
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 3: in technology there I just read The Box. I'm almost

533
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 3: finished with that book. It's all about the container industry.

534
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 3: And if you recall, it used to be these guys

535
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: who would take sacks of flower and they would take

536
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: it off the boat and they'd stick it out of

537
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 3: like all that stuff. That doesn't happen anymore. Did they

538
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 3: want that to happen. No, of course they didn't want

539
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 3: that to happen, but it happened. I mean, it's sort

540
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: of like, if we can improve autonomous trucking to the

541
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 3: point where it's equally as safe as a truck being driven,

542
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 3: you know, by a driver, then it's very hard to

543
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: refute that. I mean the same thing with cruise sides

544
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 3: on the railroad. I don't know if anyone was going

545
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 3: to accept having a pilotless plane. Probably not. But if

546
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 3: you're this sort of technological improvement happens whether we like

547
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 3: it or not. It's just sort of the future of

548
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 3: how we do it. However we you know, get our

549
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 3: minds to accept.

550
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: Gotcha.

551
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: Okay, are there any other technologies that Diana is excited

552
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: about outside of you know, you mentioned fraud again for

553
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: those listening, not to keep on plugging my own podcast,

554
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: but you know, we did one with the Chief Commercial

555
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: Officer of Highway, which is a platform that fights trucking frauds,

556
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: So you might, if you're interested in fraud and learning

557
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: more about that, you might want to go back to

558
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: listen to that from a couple of weeks ago.

559
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: But all that being said, are there any other.

560
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: Technological advances or developments that are really of interest to

561
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: Iana and your members?

562
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 3: All those technologies that ensure the safety and security of

563
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 3: the container are of interest, and those, as you know,

564
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: are getting more and more sophisticated. Whether it's a smart

565
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 3: container some of our members have invested in smart containers,

566
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: whether it's having temperature detection so that you ensure that

567
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 3: the if it's you know, durated freight, that it doesn't

568
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: exceed or go below its desired temperature. Whether it's those

569
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 3: detectors that you can stick on a container door so

570
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 3: that can sense when a container a door is opening

571
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 3: and whether it should or should not and can cause

572
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 3: an alert. All of those things I think are kind

573
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: of exciting, and I think we're just getting towards like that.

574
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 3: To me is where we have so much runway in that,

575
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: and it's kind of exciting to think about. And one

576
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: other thing that I haven't mentioned about Diana, which is

577
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: pretty neat and this is so weedy, you're going to

578
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 3: love it, Lee, But we administer the UIIA. Do you

579
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: know what that is? No, stop the stars, Stop the stars.

580
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: It's a uniform intermtal interchange agreement. And what that does

581
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 3: is it provides a rules of the road when our

582
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: members are handling containers. And so you have chassis providers

583
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 3: who are members of the UIIA, you have railroads, you

584
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 3: have the ocean going vessels, you have the drayage companies,

585
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 3: and they all are part of this agreement that essentially

586
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: then they know how to operate. I think that's enormously

587
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 3: helpful for our efficiency. But I think it's also helpful.

588
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 3: We haven't even begun to really scope out what we

589
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 3: could use the UIIA beyond what it's being used for.

590
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 3: I mean, we've already our really smart team at Ayana

591
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 3: have developed a number of different things that connect with UIIA.

592
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: For example, the driver database. The driver database means that

593
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 3: if you are a draage driver and you're in the

594
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 3: driver database, you the railroad or you the chass provider,

595
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 3: you the vessel guys can check that database to make

596
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: sure that draage driver is already registered and has you know,

597
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 3: insurance and has the CDL and is who he says

598
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 3: he is. Well, that's really enormously helpful too in terms

599
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: of staving off fraud. It wasn't the reason to do it,

600
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 3: but that's sort of something that we did and so

601
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 3: our it folks and the guys and gals who work

602
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: on uii A every day are thinking constantly of how

603
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 3: better things, you know, even better and more improvements. For example,

604
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 3: they're testing out the equipment return location, so where equipment

605
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 3: gets returned to. That's helpful for folks who own the

606
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 3: equipment or need the equipment, having some sort of GPS

607
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 3: positioning system where you know where that equipment has been

608
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 3: returned to. But that's pretty great. So they're testing that

609
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: out and that's something that we're excited about as well.

610
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: Awesome and thanks for educating me on the uii A.

611
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can go to the intermodal dot org website

612
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: lead and click on UIA and you're going to learn.

613
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: So much, so much stuff.

614
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 3: I'm still learning. I'm still learning. I've only been on

615
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 3: the job since December. I've still got a lot to learn.

616
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: This episode might have the most self promoting content on

617
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: it so so, speaking of which, are there any other

618
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: issues that the is focused on as it relates to

619
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: freight transportation logistics. You know, is there anything that's top

620
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: of uh.

621
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: Or on your radar.

622
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 3: Well, you know, we just saw that executive order about

623
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 3: English proficiency, and you know that's that's existing law. They're

624
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 3: just going to enforce it. Right. I don't know what

625
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 3: the impact will be for our community. I think we

626
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 3: need to understand that a little bit better. Obviously we

627
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 3: have as I've just went on and on about we

628
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: have cross border traffic. So that to me is going

629
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 3: to be you know, talk with me laterly and we'll

630
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: see exactly what the impacts are. I do know I

631
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 3: talked to a WAIDA, the Owner Operators Independent Driver Association

632
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 3: last week, and they're so delighted that this has happened

633
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 3: so to the extent, you know, the owner operators feel

634
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: great about it. Good for them. I just don't know

635
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 3: exactly what the impacts will be on our intermodal folk

636
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 3: and you know other things. We have to see what's

637
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 3: going to happen with rail regulation. The railroads will tell

638
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: us when and if we need to get engaged on

639
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 3: for example, crew size, whether or not they want. I

640
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 3: know that's litigation still pending on the crew size, two

641
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 3: person crew versus ultimately you know whether or not there

642
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: will be one person crew. And so again we're not

643
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 3: engaged on that right now, but may well be if

644
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 3: we were asked to provide support. And then any kind

645
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 3: of economic regulatory stuff is obviously of concern to us

646
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 3: because anything that impedes traffic flows is detrimental to our membership.

647
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:36,479
Speaker 2: Sure.

648
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: And on the English proficiency proficiency topic, you know, Derek

649
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: Leathers from Warner on their earnings call, he kind of said,

650
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: I think it was more of an estimate that he

651
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: thought ten to fifteen percent of the truckers out there

652
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: would fail those.

653
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 2: Sort of tests.

654
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: And it's interesting from what I understand, and you can

655
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm totally talking out a line, but

656
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: it tends to be dra age where more of that

657
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: might might happen. And that's just the the impression that

658
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: I was under.

659
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know this about draage, operators are

660
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 3: typically lower barriers to entry, right, It's just a little

661
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 3: bit easier. And so yeah, there's a larger immigrant population

662
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 3: that gets involved in draage. So but not just you know,

663
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 3: not just Hispanic orientation of all kinds, all nations. So yeah,

664
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 3: it's very interesting.

665
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: So when I did the intro, mentioned that, you know,

666
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: you started at your career at CSX. I don't know

667
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: if that maybe that was your first foray into transports.

668
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: How did you get into transportation? Because I find either

669
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: you're born into it or you kind of like fall

670
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: into it. So how did you get into transports?

671
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 3: Yeah? I definitely fell into it. I am a lawyer

672
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: who did not like practicing law. How many lawyers do

673
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 3: you know? Like that many? I was one of them,

674
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 3: and so I started. I was working in a law firm.

675
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 3: I felt stultified. I did not feel like I was growing,

676
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 3: so I looked around at other opportunities. There is this

677
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: little association called the High Speed Ground Transportation Association. There

678
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 3: were you know, high speed trains, and I essentially said,

679
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 3: do you need anyone to help you? And my boss,

680
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 3: he was one of those guys who like takes on,

681
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 3: you know, projects, He liked to take on projects, so sure,

682
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 3: oh are you? So from there I got into railroads really,

683
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 3: so I was there for a little bit. Then I

684
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 3: went to the AAR of the Association American Railroad CSX

685
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 3: hired me from there and I was at CSX for

686
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 3: sixteen years, and I loved it. It was never a

687
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 3: dull day. I mean, sometimes there is a horrible day

688
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 3: because you have derailments where people get hurt or killed,

689
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 3: but it's you always doing something you feel as vitally

690
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 3: important to American commerce, to the American population, to the

691
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 3: American economy. And you know, I was there for a

692
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 3: long time until obviously we know what happened in twenty

693
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: seven and teen with all the stuff which I'm sure

694
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 3: you've all covered up a covered at nauseum about how

695
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 3: the management change and so on and so forth. But

696
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 3: you know, being part of transportation, once you start, it's

697
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 3: very hard to want to stop. It's so interesting to me.

698
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 3: By and large, it's politically neutral. It's not something where

699
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 3: people feel it's not polarizing necessarily. I mean, yeah, they're

700
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 3: always going to be the truck versus railroad fight, or

701
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 3: the shipper versus you know, railroad truck fight or those

702
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 3: kinds of things, but usually everyone needs to get along

703
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 3: because it's so critical to the economy. So I like it.

704
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 3: I'm glad I'm here right.

705
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 2: I think we should settle those fights in a steel

706
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 2: cage match.

707
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 3: That's yeah, finally get it out for once.

708
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,959
Speaker 1: And you know, you mentioned the box, and a couple

709
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: of guests mentioned that book, So if you're interested to

710
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: learn more about transportation, you definitely should check that out.

711
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: Were there any other books that you might have read

712
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: in the past, whether about transportation, you know, management leadership

713
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: that is kind of close to your heart.

714
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:09,479
Speaker 2: Yes.

715
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 3: So the other book I read that has touched was

716
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 3: I have tried to implement with every job is called

717
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 3: Humble Leadership, and it talks about how humble leadership is

718
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 3: essentially knowing you don't have all the answers, nor should

719
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 3: you as a leader, so you need to surround yourself

720
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 3: with people who can assist, who are experts in their

721
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 3: particular realm, and so having the humility to know that

722
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 3: you cannot solve the problem by yourself or figure out

723
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 3: the issue by yourself. Gosh, I find that enormously freeing

724
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 3: as a leader because it means that you don't just

725
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 3: have to rely on yourself, but you also have a

726
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: community of folks who want to assist and want to

727
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 3: help you. And by and large, if you have good

728
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 3: people who work for you, they want to help you

729
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 3: and they want to be you know, talk to if

730
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 3: they have an expertise. So that to me is one

731
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 3: of the most important books. I hope everyone reads it. Really,

732
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of leaders out there.

733
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 3: It's called Humble Leadership. If I had it in front

734
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 3: of me, I would remember who wrote it, but I don't. Uh.

735
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: And there's other parts of the book which you know

736
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 3: memory fads, but that was the most That was the

737
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 3: one that resonated with me the most. But I was

738
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 3: going to say, there are a lot of leaders out

739
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 3: there who they think they have to show like they're

740
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: the boss and that they know all the stuff. It

741
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 3: just it can be really demoralizing to your team who

742
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 3: if you don't listen to them.

743
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 2: And the bad thing about this podcast is it's only audio.

744
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: You should have seen and kind of move around when

745
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: she was talking about those those leaders that think they.

746
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: Need to.

747
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 3: Like HR puff and stuff, they're HR puffing group show.

748
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: That was such a great show.

749
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: Well on the puff and stuff note, and I really

750
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: want to thank you for your time and your insights

751
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: and you know, and it was definitely educational learn more

752
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: about Iyana and all the things that you're doing for

753
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: the intermodal industry.

754
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 3: Thank you, Lee. Thanks for having me on. I'm very

755
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 3: glad to see you and maybe we'll get an invitation.

756
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 3: I can't promise anything.

757
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: Maybe you'll get into maybe fingers crossed, all right, and

758
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for tuning in. If you

759
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,879
Speaker 1: like the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. We've

760
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: lined up a number of great guests for the podcast,

761
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: so please check back to her conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators,

762
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets. Also, if you

763
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: want to learn more about the freight transportation markets, check

764
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: out our work on the Bloomberg Terminal, at b I.

765
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: Go and on social media.

766
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: This is logistically signing off and thanks for talking transports

767
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: with me today.

768
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 2: Take care bye,