Speaker 1: We've got a new cook and the Biden Administration's climate
Speaker 1: policy kitchen. His name is Ali Zad, and we'll be
Speaker 1: talking about him and about whether this kitchen has a
Speaker 1: few too many cooks. Stay tuned, Hello, and welcome back
Speaker 1: once again to Parts Pavilion, the environmental podcast from Bloomberg Law.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, David Schultz. So, in my opinion, one
Speaker 1: of the more tired cliches and government these days is
Speaker 1: the czar. The way it usually goes, there's an issue
Speaker 1: with a lot of urgency behind it, and the president
Speaker 1: appoints one person to oversee all actions on that issue.
Speaker 1: I think the drugs are, the covids are. Of course,
Speaker 1: those with even a passing familiarity with Russian history will
Speaker 1: know that calling someone a czar really isn't, really shouldn't
Speaker 1: be a compliment. But with all that being said, we
Speaker 1: have a new climate czar in this country. His name
Speaker 1: is Ali Zad, and his official title, as of about
Speaker 1: a month ago is White House National Climate Advisor. If
Speaker 1: you haven't heard of Zadi, you probably have heard of
Speaker 1: his predecessor in this role, former EP administrator Gina McCarthy.
Speaker 1: She now she'd be stepping down shortly after the passage
Speaker 1: of the Inflation Reduction Act and it's billions in funding
Speaker 1: for climate projects, and know that timing was not a coincidence.
Speaker 1: To learn more about why McCarthy stepped down, why Zad
Speaker 1: is taking your place, and what exactly it is he'll
Speaker 1: be doing, I bring up Bloomberg Law Reporter and parts
Speaker 1: for a billion regular Stephen Lee. He said, Dad was
Speaker 1: chosen as a post legislation leader, not a pre legislation leader.
Speaker 1: And we'll get into what that means in a bit,
Speaker 1: But first I as Stephen to tell me WHO'SE. A.
Speaker 1: D actually is? Okay, So Alex A. D Is. He's
Speaker 1: one of these DC people that you sometimes meet who's
Speaker 1: just has kind of a glittering resume. He's um. He
Speaker 1: went to Harvard and Georgetown. He has a law degree.
Speaker 1: He at a pretty young age went to work in
Speaker 1: the Obama administration. He was a pretty high ranking aid
Speaker 1: to Stephen Chew at Energy and he was also the
Speaker 1: energy guy at omb under President Obama. He is the
Speaker 1: former Chairman of Climate Policy in New York State, so
Speaker 1: he was leading that state's efforts on clean energy. He's
Speaker 1: also a former adjunct professor at Stanford, and he's worked
Speaker 1: at a couple of white shoe law firms, and he's
Speaker 1: been at part of the White House's climate team since
Speaker 1: Biden got started. So he's done a lot, especially for
Speaker 1: a young guy. So he's a real insider, real government insider.
Speaker 1: And I think you drew a nice contrast um in
Speaker 1: your story between him and his predecessor, Gena McCarthy, who
Speaker 1: was the head of the e p A of course,
Speaker 1: and she, you know, was very used to being out
Speaker 1: in the public going, you know, talking to the media.
Speaker 1: Um kind of mixing it up. It sounds like he's
Speaker 1: more of someone who is more comfortable behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: Is that fair to fair characterization? Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that Gina McCarthy, as we
Speaker 1: all know, I mean, she had this huge personality and
Speaker 1: she was very charismatic, and you know, in the climate world,
Speaker 1: she's a superstar. Everyone knows Gena McCarthy. And what we've
Speaker 1: heard is that that was really important during the kind
Speaker 1: of first two years of Biden. You needed to have
Speaker 1: someone who could be a really effective salesperson, you know,
Speaker 1: selling the Biden climate agenda and rallying support and getting
Speaker 1: people excited and getting voters excited, and getting folks on
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill excited, just building support for the for the
Speaker 1: sort of ideas that that we're coming out of the
Speaker 1: White House. And and now that the Infrastructure Bill and
Speaker 1: the Climate Bill have passed, we're now moving into the
Speaker 1: implement implementation stage. And so what you want is someone
Speaker 1: who is a real technocrat, someone who has very deep
Speaker 1: experience with the technology and with the policy and with
Speaker 1: the economy. It's not that Gina McCarthy isn't also skilled
Speaker 1: in those areas, but I think people seem to feel
Speaker 1: as though Ali's ad is a guy whose skills just
Speaker 1: match up really very well with the task at hand. Uh.
Speaker 1: I should also say that, you know, there is a
Speaker 1: part of being the White House climates are that I
Speaker 1: think is a it's a political job, it's a sort
Speaker 1: of a sales job. And and Za has been out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, he makes a lot of appearances, and he's
Speaker 1: you know, got his his own powers of persuasion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to make him seem like
Speaker 1: a you know, a shrinking violet, like he's you know,
Speaker 1: he's a pretty uh sort of dynamic, powerful guy in
Speaker 1: his own right. Yeah, I think he's I think he's
Speaker 1: been pretty effective at making the sales pitch, and I
Speaker 1: think the White House is um that they seem to
Speaker 1: be pretty satisfied with the job that he's doing there. Um, well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about not the job that he has done,
Speaker 1: but the job that he will be doing now as
Speaker 1: the new climates are as you mentioned, he's going to
Speaker 1: be responsible for implementing a lot of the climate provisions
Speaker 1: that were in the I R. A. Um, what are
Speaker 1: some of the traps that he could fall into and
Speaker 1: what are the states here for him? I think there's
Speaker 1: really two challenges here. One is just the sheer size
Speaker 1: of both the Climate bill and the Infrastructure bill. I mean,
Speaker 1: the Climate bill has three billion dollars. There's billions more
Speaker 1: in the infrastructure bill. So we're talking about roads and
Speaker 1: bridges and renewable power all across the country. It's just
Speaker 1: hard to keep track of all that money. It's hard
Speaker 1: to make sure that it's all spent, you know, the
Speaker 1: way it's supposed to be spent, and and and to
Speaker 1: make sure that every project goes smoothly. We know that
Speaker 1: there are Republican lawmakers who are going to be watching
Speaker 1: very closely, you know, looking for the next Cylindra that
Speaker 1: they can make up political hay out of right, And
Speaker 1: let's let's remind our listeners what that was. That was
Speaker 1: a solar energy company that went belly up and was very,
Speaker 1: very controversial in the Obama administration. That's exactly right. And
Speaker 1: Democrats have made the argument that you know, when you
Speaker 1: are funding all these different projects, some of them they
Speaker 1: don't you know, pan out in the way that you
Speaker 1: expect or that they expect, and that's just part of
Speaker 1: the bargain, right, Like, not everything is going to be
Speaker 1: a home run. So so that is a challenge. So frankly,
Speaker 1: I mean it's impossible. I would think that there's not
Speaker 1: going to be some hiccups here and there when there's
Speaker 1: this kind of money going out the door. Well, well,
Speaker 1: it seems it seems like he has he has to
Speaker 1: balance two priorities that are basically incompatible with each other.
Speaker 1: He has to get the money out quickly, but he
Speaker 1: also has to make sure that it's spent correctly. And
Speaker 1: I don't think you can totally accomplish both of those things.
Speaker 1: The getting it out quickly is the second challenge that
Speaker 1: I think he faces. You know we we This is
Speaker 1: where we run into issues of permitting investment supply chains.
Speaker 1: You know, can you get all the materials and the
Speaker 1: workers you know, in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1: It has to be you know, made in America and um.
Speaker 1: And then we run into this political challenge too, because
Speaker 1: he's got to get all these states to play ball,
Speaker 1: and it's not going to be easy in in in
Speaker 1: some parts of the country that fundamentally opposed the Biden agenda. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great point. Let's talk about another potential obstacle
Speaker 1: for zad Um, which is that there are a lot
Speaker 1: of other officials in the Biden administration who have a
Speaker 1: piece of this. Uh and I made some notes here.
Speaker 1: So we have John Kerry, a pretty big name, who
Speaker 1: is the Special Envoy for Climate. You also have John Podesta,
Speaker 1: who was hired around the same time as a d
Speaker 1: who is a senior clean energy advisor. He's of course
Speaker 1: been a very very large figure within the Democratic Party
Speaker 1: for a long time. Oh and let's not forget Michael
Speaker 1: Reagan and Jennifer Granholm, UH, cabinet secretaries at the e
Speaker 1: p A and d OE respectively. You know how much
Speaker 1: authority does z d really have given that these other
Speaker 1: big names are also you know, have their have their
Speaker 1: fingers in the pipe, so to speak. Well, here's what
Speaker 1: we know. So John Kerry is the international guy. Okay,
Speaker 1: so pretty clear division of labor there. He's the guy
Speaker 1: that goes to these u N events and that kind
Speaker 1: of thing UM Reagan and Grandholm you mentioned, uh, primarily
Speaker 1: regulators and rule writers z D. We imagine is going
Speaker 1: to be playing a sort of a coordinating role, so
Speaker 1: bringing together all of the agencies convening in our agency
Speaker 1: working groups UM and and And he also has a
Speaker 1: direct line to the President, so he's going to be
Speaker 1: influential in shaping top down policy on a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of things like land conservation and public health and environmental justice,
Speaker 1: and of course economic growth and green jobs. So when
Speaker 1: you hear a Biden talking about that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: there's a pretty good chance it'll either have come from
Speaker 1: or being vetted by Ali's eight. So I see him
Speaker 1: as more of a sort of top down type of person.
Speaker 1: I see. Maybe it's just that what was tripping me
Speaker 1: up is the title, you know, climates Are, which is
Speaker 1: of course not his official title. That's just an informal
Speaker 1: you know nickname. When I think of his are, you know,
Speaker 1: I think of someone with kind of absolute authority, and
Speaker 1: it sounds like, you know, climate coordinator, climate wrangler. I
Speaker 1: guess it would be maybe a more appropriate title than
Speaker 1: climates are. You know, this is where Republican lawmakers um
Speaker 1: start to push back because they don't like the idea
Speaker 1: of czars either, and they want to know who's in charge,
Speaker 1: who's calling the shots, who's responsible for what? You've got
Speaker 1: all these different people, um, you know, how how many
Speaker 1: different decision makers do we need to have? I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously it's a huge job that affects the entire economy,
Speaker 1: but there is definitely this sense among Republicans that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of unelected bureaucrats running around making all kinds
Speaker 1: of important decisions that affect people's lives in a very
Speaker 1: tangable way, and who's doing what. Yeah. In fact, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you brought that up because you actually quoted Senator
Speaker 1: Shelley Moore, capital of West Virginia, you know, who's a
Speaker 1: big critic of the Biden administration's environmental policy, and she
Speaker 1: said that she said exactly what you just said, but
Speaker 1: added on she thinks this is on purpose. She thinks
Speaker 1: that the Biden administration is bringing on all of these
Speaker 1: sort of bureaucrats as a way to obvious skate what
Speaker 1: it's actually doing. Can you talk a little bit more
Speaker 1: about that. Do you think that that is a valid
Speaker 1: criticism that Senator Capital is leveling. It's a criticism that
Speaker 1: she's been making for a long time. So I've not
Speaker 1: heard any criticism really of Ali's ad as a person. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, he's clearly a pretty legit guy. I think
Speaker 1: everyone sees that, and he's also so new in the
Speaker 1: job and not a whole lot is known about him.
Speaker 1: But as you say, there is definitely skepticism about, as
Speaker 1: Republicans like to say, unelected bureaucrats and this question of,
Speaker 1: you know, should these decisions be more transparent and should
Speaker 1: they you know, go through Congress. Obviously it depends on
Speaker 1: the issue that we're talking about, but they have made
Speaker 1: this argument repeatedly as a way of kind of undermining
Speaker 1: all these actions that Biden has been undertaking. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then finally, you know, speaking of the sort of the
Speaker 1: response from the right side of the aisle um, you
Speaker 1: also quoted somebody in your story who is a conservative,
Speaker 1: Alex Flint, who was pretty happy about this, who who
Speaker 1: was glad that uh, you know, zd was was promoted
Speaker 1: to this position. Can you talk about him and the
Speaker 1: viewpoint that he represents. You know, I think there is
Speaker 1: a view among kind of Democrats and centrists and certainly
Speaker 1: at the White House, that we do need to build
Speaker 1: stuff quickly if we're going to reach these climate goals
Speaker 1: that the President has set out. There is definitely a
Speaker 1: need to go faster and to build stuff faster. And
Speaker 1: that's why you hear the President saying that we need
Speaker 1: to reform the permitting process. I mean, it's interesting, it
Speaker 1: will be interesting to see how the administration, you know,
Speaker 1: handles this issue because there are there are lots of
Speaker 1: places where the desire to get stuff built quickly and
Speaker 1: the desire to protect the environment they don't really match
Speaker 1: up perfectly. And so it just seems like that's a
Speaker 1: really good that's a tough one for the White House. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's where someone like Flint comes in. He's, uh
Speaker 1: leads a group that's pushing for a carbon tax or
Speaker 1: for some sort of market based solution to climate change,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like he's happy um, that z D
Speaker 1: is in there because he thinks that, you know, this
Speaker 1: would be someone who might be able to, if not
Speaker 1: get it that done, then get the government a little
Speaker 1: bit closer to that, right, Do I have that right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And and that's also that was a big part of
Speaker 1: the Climate Bill. A lot of that stuff is tax incentives.
Speaker 1: So let's see if we can, you know, create incentives
Speaker 1: for the private industry to do this stuff. And if
Speaker 1: we can get to that place, then maybe there doesn't
Speaker 1: need to be as much federal intervention, our federal investment.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's that's that's definitely something that I
Speaker 1: think the White House is hoping takes hold and and
Speaker 1: and takes off. Alright, strange bedfellows, as they say. That
Speaker 1: was Stephen Lee, reporter with Bloomberg Laws, speaking about Ali's eighty.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Steven, Thanks David, and now I'll
Speaker 1: do it for today's episode of Parts Brivilion. If you
Speaker 1: want more environmental news, check us out on Twitter. We
Speaker 1: use the handle at environment just that environment. I'm at
Speaker 1: David B. Schultz if you want to talk to me
Speaker 1: about anything. Today's episode of Parts for Billion was produced
Speaker 1: by myself, David Schultz. Parts of Really was created by
Speaker 1: Jessica Combs and Rachel Dagle and is edited by Zach
Speaker 1: Sherwood and Chuck Percutcheon. Our executive producer is Josh Block.
Speaker 1: Thanks everyone for listening. An individual's race should not be
Speaker 1: used to help him or harm him in his life's endeavors.
Speaker 1: A pair of lawsuits has made its way to the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, and the decision could dramatically change just who
Speaker 1: gets into which college. Bloom is effectively using the Asian
Speaker 1: community as pawns. Every lawsuit needs a villain to mask
Speaker 1: an anti black and anti Latino agenda. Does this demoralize me? No,
Speaker 1: it doesn't demoralize me. This season on Uncommon Law will
Speaker 1: explore the arguments and the people driving this latest battle
Speaker 1: over affirmative action. Can the Constitution be used to remedy
Speaker 1: society's ills. I'm the only person in class, must raise
Speaker 1: my hand and say, okay, well, actually, here's how this
Speaker 1: affects people that look like me. Does the Fourteenth Amendments
Speaker 1: Equal Protection Clause prohibit all discrimination based on race. You
Speaker 1: let somebody in because of their race, You're keeping somebody
Speaker 1: else out because of their race. There might have been
Speaker 1: two or three Latinos, including me, and so somehow that's
Speaker 1: too much, somehow that goes too far. It's hard not
Speaker 1: to take that very personally. Coming October, part one of
Speaker 1: a three part series on affirmative action, what's being decided
Speaker 1: is whether black and brown people are going to be
Speaker 1: excluded in significant numbers only an uncommon law from Bloomberg
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