1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: after the United States. It's this Germany and the UK 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: that are delivering the most weapons to Ukraine, and we 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: will continue to do to go. This is not a plan, 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: it is a recipe for economic catastrophe. Floomberg sound On Politics, 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: Policy and perspective from DC's top names. I don't know 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: about his resume or not, but I always had a 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: few questions. So this inflection point, we know there's a 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: lot of work you have to continue on economic justice, 10 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: civil rights, voting rights, protecting our democracy. Bloomberg Sound On 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Corporations are trusted more 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: than government, according to new research, But will they dance 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: again with Republicans? Welcome to the fastest hour in politics. 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: As business and government collide in Davos, we consider what 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: political parties can learn from corporate boardrooms and whether the 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: GOP's public feud with corporate messaging will end. We're joined 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: by Lester Months in of Government Relations firm b g 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: R Group. In just a moment, is Germany about to 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: step up military support for Ukraine? Bloomberg News speaking exclusively 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: with Chancellor Olaf Schalz will have more with the head 21 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: of our national security team, Nick Wadham's and analysis from 22 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: our signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeannie 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: Schanzano back with us for the hour. Governor Rhonda Santis 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: may have made best use of republicans perceived divorce with 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: corporate America when he went after Walt Disney over the 26 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: States Don't Say Gay law. In fact, he's still talking 27 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: about it. Here's the Santis after a federal judge ruled 28 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: in favor of the administration over the so called Stop 29 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: Woke Act. Listen, the bill that we're signing is called 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: the Stop Woke Act, and the reason what it stands 31 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: for Woke is Stop Wrongs against our kids and Employees Act, 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: because unfortunately, you've seen employees mostly working for major Fortune 33 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: five companies that get subjected to this same type of videology. 34 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: Remembering the amount of news coverage and money that Rhodes 35 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: Santa's got over his war with Disney, it was a 36 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: political win. But we turned to the latest Edelman Trust Barometer, 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: put out annually by Public Relations from Edlement. It finds 38 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: employers are better trusted than government or elected officials, and 39 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: by a lot. It was released to coincide with Davos, 40 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: and it got me thinking how many times we have 41 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: noted business stepping in to do what government could not 42 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: over the past year, past couple of years. Just considered, 43 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: consider what's happened with space travel. So is there a 44 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: limit to the De Santis approach or does this public 45 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: split continue? The newsletter Popular Information questions whether the so 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: called divorce of Republicans in corporate America was ever actually real, 47 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: And it makes the point quite effectively by picking through 48 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: the guest list for a major fundraiser next month for 49 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy also looks inside his inner circle looks pretty 50 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: old school corporate America. And so we start our conversation 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: with Lester months in principle like government relations from b 52 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: g R Group. He's former staff director of the Senate 53 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: Foreign Relations Committee and no stranger here to sound on Lester. 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us. There's a lot to learn 55 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: here in this Edelman report. I wonder if you see 56 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: de Santis and those like him, those with the populist 57 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: agenda who are getting a lot of news coverage as 58 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: part of this conversation, or do people not see him 59 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: as a so called elected official because he's some sort 60 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: of rogue. Well, I think we need to distinguish between 61 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: kind of specific episodes and then more general attitudes. So 62 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: in the in the Florida case, you know, it was 63 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: actually Disney that's start that kind of dove in and 64 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: decided they were going to get involved in the public 65 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: policy debate over this the state government initiative, and de 66 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: Santis pushed back, so he was kind of reacting to 67 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: their intervention. You've you've seen other times when politicians, particularly Republicans, 68 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: it seems like lately, have have kind of gone after 69 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: the business community without being provoked necessarily by the way 70 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: Democrats do this also, and I think back to the 71 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: example of Major League Baseball pulling the All Star Game 72 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: out of Atlanta when voting rights was was the big conversation. 73 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: But and then more noteworthy for Republicans because of the 74 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: party's long standing relationship, very close relationship with corporate America. Right, 75 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: it was typically the Democrats who are trying to shame 76 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: companies and Republicans who were back in them up. Well, 77 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: that's totally that's totally fair. And I and I as 78 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: a as a Republican, I do get concerned when we 79 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: start generalizing about big corporations or the Chamber of Commerce 80 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: or these kinds of things. I think, well, why why 81 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: are we doing that. We like companies, we like private enterprise, 82 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: we like uh, you know, the dynamism of the market 83 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: and those things, and let's let's not do anything to 84 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: to kind of degre aid that enthusiasm. I don't I 85 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: don't like that. But at the same time, you know, 86 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: Republicans have always been for lower taxes, less regulation, more 87 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: of a kind of a hothouse environment for business, and 88 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: let businesses go where they want to go. Now these 89 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: social issues pop up, and I'm not sure it's totally now, 90 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: it does seem to be more intense now where Republicans 91 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: are are complaining about about companies getting involved in these 92 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: social policy debates. Not totally new. But you know, the 93 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: thing that bothers me is when we get these generalities, Oh, well, 94 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: you're just a corporate You're just supporting corporate America. Like, well, 95 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: what's wrong with supporting corporate America. That's that's what our 96 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: economy is based on in large measures. So the whole 97 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: Romney moment as a company for the same thing as 98 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: a person. Uh but in this in this research, business 99 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: holds a fifty four point lead over government in terms 100 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: of competence, a thirty point lead in terms of ethics. 101 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 1: That's both parties here, Lester, What are what does Washington 102 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: need to learn from the corporate boardroom on both of 103 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: these issues? Well, I think not. Companies aren't not to 104 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: make money, that's what they're here for. Yeah, well, but 105 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: you highlighted a recent success, right, SpaceX and these other 106 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: private companies are showing you can you can launch stuff 107 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: into space, including people, relatively cheaply, efficiently, safely. Uh. And 108 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: it's terrific and they're they're doing better than when the 109 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: government tries to do it itself. Same thing with vaccines. 110 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: Trump administration had Operation Work Speed. We unleashed private pharmaceutical 111 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: companies to go produce vaccines and they didn't less than 112 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: a year. It was amazing, probably saved millions or hundreds 113 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: of thousands of lives. Really incredible stuff. So there's there's 114 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: recent examples of companies doing things that government maybe not 115 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: maybe isn't in a good position to do. Ethics though, 116 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: is another matter here. Right, Competence is one thing, ethics 117 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: is another. When we're talking about people in charge of 118 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: public policy or the institutions themselves. That's a real problem 119 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: that this report UH found that people trust what they 120 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: see in their company's newsletter more than what they're hearing 121 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: from the government, which brings us back to the pandemic 122 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: for instance. I don't know how. I don't know how 123 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: you govern under conditions like that, particularly if it keeps 124 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: getting worse. It's hard. We're really an evenly divided country politically. 125 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: Everything seems to be politicized now, from where the baseball 126 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: game is to what you think about vaccines, to you know, 127 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: you name it, the issue is going to become politicized. 128 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: It's almost it doesn't take more than a couple of 129 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: hours for something to turn into a debate on Twitter 130 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: and then on other social media platforms and then even 131 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: in the newspaper. So I think I think people get 132 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: a little little tired of that, and they see kind 133 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: of our politicians, you know, up close and personal, you know, 134 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: multiple times a day, not necessarily doing their best. You know, 135 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: we had some fumbles on the COVID response, UH, kind 136 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: of across the board that could have been utter from government. 137 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: So there have been episodes of concern lately, So I 138 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: don't think it's totally irrational that Americans are turning to 139 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: business where you know, if you don't like the company, 140 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: you don't have to buy the product anymore, or you 141 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: don't have you can sell the stock. I mean, there's 142 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: there's a way to show how you feel about it. 143 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: There's a little bit harder, but democracy, you gotta wait 144 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: for the election. Don't People trust companies as well though, 145 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: because they have to make money from from all people. 146 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: They can't pick favorites when they're in the business of 147 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: of making a profit. They can't tell what motivations are 148 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: behind most politicians. Well, I I I always recall the 149 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: stage business guru Michael Jordan's who said back in when 150 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: people were asking him why didn't get more involved in politics, 151 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: he said, well, Republicans buy sneakers to Uh, you know, 152 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: at the end, at the end of the day, business 153 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: has got our would be marketing to everyone, try to 154 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: stay out of the political fights. I think that's a 155 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: smart move for business. Uh some of them needed to 156 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: be reminded of that lately. But by and large, you know, 157 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: businesses want to sell stuff, they want to make money 158 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: good for them. Fascinating, great to talk to you. Lester 159 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: Monson with his view from the government relations from BG 160 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: our Group, as we get things started on Bloomberg sound 161 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: On earlier today on Bloomberg from Davlas, I mentioned this 162 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: research was put out to coincide with the Economic Forum. UH. 163 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: The head of of the in the namesake of the firm, 164 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: Ric Edelman, was on with Tim and Carroll listened to 165 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: his point on this conclusion that they found people really 166 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: want CEOs to continue to speak up on societal issues. 167 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: I know that there's been pushedback on c e o 168 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: s since Governor to Santis on Disney and also um, 169 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: you know, the Texas pension funds in West Virginia. But 170 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: our study is very clear we want CEO to speak 171 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: up my sustainability, diversity inclusion, also on wages and reskilling, 172 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: and on geopolitics like Russia. Other issues. You can leave 173 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: Edelman CEO Richard Edelman from Davos on Bloomberg Business Week earlier. 174 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: Let's just sell the panel. Curious to hear from both 175 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano as ever Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick, 176 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: you've straddled politics and business. I don't know if that's 177 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: the right word. I should say you've worked in both, 178 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: because I think they were two different chapters in your career, 179 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: so you really understand the way they coincide. You've seen 180 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 1: it from both sides here. I wonder your thoughts on 181 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: what politicians can learn from executives now. Remember it was 182 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: fat cats and suits. We weren't supposed to trust, although 183 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: maybe that played for politicians as well. But it seems 184 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,239 Speaker 1: like a turning of the tide here, uh that politicians 185 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: might be able to still get their arms around Joey right. 186 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: I mean, for most of my career I would tell 187 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: lots of bankers there's no way for a banker to 188 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: get elected into politics. I mean, you guys are images 189 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: so bad? Um and and and now I think it's 190 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: it's the arc of change, right, I mean, you know, 191 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: throughout most of the first half of the century so far, 192 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: it's been advantage government, right. And and it's not that 193 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: they're popular, but they were seen I think by most 194 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: people as problem solvers, people who could get things done. 195 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: That has changed over the last twenty years, maybe twenty 196 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: five years. And and where politicians are now an obstruction 197 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: to getting anything done. And and and the flip side 198 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: of that is, um, corporate America has sort of gotten 199 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: in touch with its roots. I mean, you know, when 200 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: you're in the sales business, you're selling to people, and 201 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: people's views matter on the host of these issues. Uh. 202 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: And you operate in a world that is challenged by 203 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: climate issues, and and you have a stake in that, 204 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: if not just to manage your risk. And so all 205 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: of a sudden, the people who look like they're solving 206 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: problems are the business community and not the political community. 207 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: And you can see it happening over time. I see 208 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: nothing changing that in the near term. Uh. In fact, 209 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: you've seen many more people from the business commun they 210 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 1: start to go into politics than ever before. Uh And 211 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: and because they they I think want to be able 212 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: to transition the experience they've had in the in the 213 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: C suite to trying to get Washington back on track. Well, 214 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: and that's of course what they say. I suppose Donald 215 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: trust the Donald Trump is the ultimate example of that genie. 216 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: People said, at least they did something other than just 217 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: sit around in in Washington. But but that's that's also 218 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: more than a competence issue or an ethical issue. That 219 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: the way that that we're looking at corporations. Uh is 220 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: probably better than ever. As as Rick just articulated pretty well, 221 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: politicians may be worse. Think of what people just watched 222 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: on the House floor with Kevin McCarthy. Yeah, but I'm 223 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: going to take an opposite view in defense of our 224 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: politics and politicians and take a historical context here. You know, 225 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: our system was built on distrust of government. James Madison 226 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: saw government as a necessary evil. So to me, the 227 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: results of the Edelman survey, even going back several years, 228 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: are not at all a surprise. This is how in 229 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: the United States, at least in most democracies, the system 230 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: is built. A commitment to liberty is a commitment to 231 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: small government, because government is best that does the least, 232 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: and that is true across the board, Republicans and Democrats. 233 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: So I am not at all surprised that people are 234 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: distrustful of government because that was the way our system 235 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: was designed and has operated for over two hundred years. Now. Yeah, sure, 236 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: you can have ebbs and flows in that, and we 237 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: have seen some of that, but I don't see this 238 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: as remarkably different than the way our system was constructed 239 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: to begin with. And government is necessary and it does 240 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: not always operate the way we hope, But it is 241 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: something that I think we have to give some historical 242 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: context to because this is the way our founding fathers 243 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: and mothers created the system to distrust government. These results 244 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: weren't always the case, though, right, I mean to be trusting, 245 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: uh someone who is there to make a profit as 246 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: opposed to serving the public. Uh. That that is a 247 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: shift here, and and not in favor of Washington. Yeah, 248 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, it is a shift. You do see some 249 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: shifts in these numbers. But the reality is is, what 250 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: did our framers commit to most liberty to own property. 251 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: It was a commitment to liberty of economic liberty above 252 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: all other liberties. They wanted people to believe in the 253 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: private sector. They wanted people to believe in business and corporations. 254 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: So you know, to me, this is not wildly out 255 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: of keeping with what our framers feels American to you. 256 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: It feels incredibly American to me. Now, do I want 257 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: people to trust government? I wish we had more faith 258 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: in it, but our framers didn't. So it doesn't surprise 259 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: me that we remain suspicious today. Well, it's strounding pretty 260 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: well for corporate America here, uh Rick, When we consider 261 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: the Rhonda Santis sort of war on at least several corporations. 262 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: You can you can pick one if you want, whether 263 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: it's over E. S. G. Or what he considers woke policy, 264 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: Black Rock, Disney. It's a pretty interesting collection here. Uh 265 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: does that continue in a fundraising sees and does that 266 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: continue on on his behalf because he just does it 267 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: well or does it? Does it kind of depend on 268 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: which politician we're talking about. Well, I would certainly think 269 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: it lasts through the primaries. If he runs for president, 270 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: he's going to need to energize the Trump base and 271 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: and they've been drinking from this fire hose for four 272 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: or five years, right, And so you know, when you 273 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: look at the demographics of rural white males without college 274 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: educations who have a suspicion for anything institutional, they hate 275 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: government and they hate corporations, and and so sure he's 276 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: going to use these uh culture wars to fuel a 277 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: primary campaign. Whether he can then pivot from that and 278 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: sound more mainstream because certainly that you know, some of 279 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: these culture were scared the but Jesus out of you know, 280 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: suburban voters who he'll need morporate money by dumping up 281 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: on corporate America. Oh yeah, he's gonna raise a lot 282 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: of money for that, because again, a lot of that 283 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: money is small donor. Uh, it's not the big donors. 284 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: Those are the guys in the sweet seat c suites. 285 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: And and yet you look at how the Republican Party 286 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: has shifted how it raises money. It's from the dollars 287 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: a week subscriptions that Donald Trump made incredibly popular and 288 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: have fueled the growth of the party since then. It's 289 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: not the big donor. Uh, it's it's really the small donor. 290 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: And you know, it's kind of one of these cases 291 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: where be careful what you asked for. Everybody's been saying 292 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: for years, oh my god, we really ought to have 293 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: a broader base of fundraising support, you know. But the 294 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: net effect of that is, you know, we take a 295 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: constituency like corporate American, we say, hey, we're gonna flush 296 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: it down the toilet because you know, we can find 297 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: money from somewhere else. It's not just all about money. 298 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: There is a culture war going on in the United States. 299 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: But I would say, just one short note, the reason 300 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: you have government regulation is because corporations weren't trusted well there. 301 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: It is from Rick Davis and Jeanie Chanzano. I don't 302 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: know how much further they can push it. We'll find 303 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: out together here advantage business until further notice. We turn 304 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: to Ukraine next, the promise of new armor. This is Bloomberg. 305 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 306 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: But will they send the tanks? The big question for 307 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: Germany right now, specifically Chancellor all Off Schultz, who spoke 308 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: exclusively today with Bloomberg News. In talks, he says with 309 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: allies over potentially supplying heavy tanks to Ukraine. They're called 310 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: Leopard tanks, battle tanks that would go to Kiev in 311 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: the event that fighting intensifies in the spring, but there's 312 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: no real commitment. Our editor in chief, John Michael Thwaite 313 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: asked him directly today on Bloomberg. Here's here's Chancellor Schultz. 314 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: It is that we are discussing with our friends, with 315 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: our allies, with United States, what is the right thing 316 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: to do. And it is nothing for public debate. I 317 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: think it's something where we have to work on and 318 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: so far we did a lot as all our realizing 319 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: and what we are doing is on the forefront of 320 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: support of Ukraine. And let's be this the basis for 321 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: the decisions that we will have to take in the 322 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: next weeks and months. Okay, so we're not sure yet, 323 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: we're in talks. Think of that answer, and and the 324 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: contrast here with the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, the 325 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: Dutch step up to support Ukraine. Prime Minister Mark Ruta 326 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: in Washington today where he met with President Biden. They 327 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: sat down on the Oval and there were some questions 328 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: about whether they would in fact commit to sending patriot 329 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: defense systems or a defense system to Ukraine. The answer 330 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: is yes, here's the Prime Minister in the Oval Office. 331 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: I'm consince that history or judge that in two if 332 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,239 Speaker 1: the United States would not have stepped up like you did, 333 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: that's things would have been very different. At the moment. 334 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: The US and Germany in recent weeks each pledge to 335 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: send the patriots, which go a long way to what 336 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: President Zelinski called is closing the skies, joining us to 337 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: talk about where we stand here and what might come 338 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: from Germany. Is Nick Wadhams, the head of Bloomberg's National 339 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: security team, fascinating conversation uh today Nick looking at the 340 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: Chancellor of Germany and thinking of him as a wartime leader. Uh, 341 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: but tough to get answers on some very specific issues 342 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: like this one. Do you think they eventually send that armor. Uh, 343 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: it's a great question. I think there that it is 344 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: definitely headed that way. I mean, there's so much pressure 345 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: on Western nations to get over their reticence about supplying tanks. Um, 346 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: the US, I think is much farther off, given that 347 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: the Abrams tank, which is its main battle tank, is 348 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: just crazy expensive. It burns three gallons of fuel per mile, 349 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: so we're not talking about miles per gallon, we're talking 350 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: about gallons per mile. That's basically, as one analyst told me, 351 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: essentially a jet engine strapped into a huge bunch of armors. 352 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: So there would be real logistical and maintenance and supply 353 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: challenges for the US tanks, but it's not quite as 354 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: bad for the Leopard, the German tank. I mean should 355 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: be noted that Germany, like the US, has really pushed 356 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: the envelope on weapons so far. The last week we 357 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: we heard they would supply armored vehicles the Murdyr, just 358 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: as the US is supplying Bradley. So you've really seen 359 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: a fundamental shift in the way that Western nations think 360 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: about supplying Ukraine and being willing to provide them with 361 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: much more offensive weaponry. You can almost see Shultz sort 362 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: of grinding through this, you know, as he's thinking about 363 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: how I'm going to answer this question and and what 364 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: is there a real challenge for him, uh right now. 365 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: But but to your point, you can kind of see 366 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: how this ends. Why is there so much reluctance each 367 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: time another level is requested? Well, I mean you have 368 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: to remember how far things have gone from the beginning, 369 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: which was you know, initially there was fear about providing 370 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: shoulder fired missiles because there was there was worry that 371 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: if you if a Ukrainian soldiers shot a US supplied 372 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: Stinger at a Russian jet, than that could potentially escalate 373 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 1: into a conflict that pulled in NATO. So what you've 374 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: seen is the progressive willingness to supply more and more 375 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: amid the recognition that I think what they're saying is 376 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: that Ukraine now does have the capability to take back 377 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: the territory at lost from February. Russia's actions, they say, 378 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: are so egregious against civilians, against Ukrainian infrastructure, and the 379 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: floodgates are basically open. They do not believe there's going 380 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: to be a wider war between NATO and Russia, and 381 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: they are just going to give Ukraine everything it needs. 382 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: But it does feel like every time we come to 383 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: this thing, is it gonna be patriots? No, wh never 384 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: provides you? Oh no, now we're gonna provide patriots? Is 385 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: it tanks? And I suspect what what Schultz is doing 386 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: there is basically those discussions are really happening, and they're 387 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: probably at a very delicate stage. He doesn't want to 388 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: get ahead of that um, but it does seem very 389 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: much like Germany is headed in that direction. Nick Wadhams 390 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: runs Bloomberg's now fational Security team to thank you. It's 391 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: great to have you back with us on sound On. 392 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: As always the panels thoughts on this. We've talked about 393 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: every stage of this. Now we're at the point of 394 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: of committing tanks. Rick Davis and Jeannie Schanzano are here, 395 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: and by the way, Rick, we're talking about dozens of 396 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: German made Leopard tanks. If they decide to do this, 397 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: would that be a game changer? It certainly would um 398 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: from the perspective of the new War right. I mean 399 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: like it wasn't a few months ago when we say, oh, 400 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: winner is gonna hit, it's gonna be too cold to fight. 401 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: You know, nobody's gonna be out there. And that was 402 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: exactly wrong. Right. You could almost make an argument that 403 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: every major stage of this war, the public scrutiny on 404 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: it has been absolutely wrong. And and so we see 405 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: this ravaging fighting, uh, you know between Ukraine and Russian forces, 406 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: and absolutely these tanks, when you're in this inclose kind 407 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: of combat, are really a necessary item. And and I 408 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: would point out the bridges are sent in tanks. I mean, 409 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: they made it really clear after all offs conversation to hey, 410 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: we're we're sending tanks. Why aren't those guys sending tanks? 411 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: And and and I just think that that we've talked 412 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: about this so many times of the course of almost 413 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: one year anniversary of this war. Is that that that 414 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: I think we got to listen to the Ukrainians. If 415 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: the Ukrainians need certain kinds of material, then we should 416 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: supply them for it instead of doing this drip drip drip, 417 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: exactly what Nick was just talking about. Right, Oh, well, 418 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,479 Speaker 1: you know we're not going to give them shoulder fired stuff. Well, 419 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: now we're giving them, you know, sophisticated weaponry. I mean, like, 420 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: let's just give them what they need to win. And 421 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: I think that would tell us where you need to 422 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: go on things like uh, tanks and and you know, 423 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: uh and and frankly, you know, let's get back to 424 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: the skies. Where's that F sixteen? I mean we talked 425 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: about that every month, and every month it's like, oh, no, 426 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: that would be an escalation. Who's escalating this fight? Us? 427 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: Are that pretty hard to escalate it from here? Genie, 428 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: There were a lot of questions today at the White House. 429 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: The Press secretary got a few about whether the president 430 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: would be directly involved here, whether he needs to start 431 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: twisting arms, namely a guy named Schultz uh to send 432 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: the tanks. But he's gotten a lot of credit for 433 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: actually not taking that approach so far. How does he 434 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: balance this? Yeah, I think he is probably going to 435 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: have to engage in that behind the scenes. Certainly you 436 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to do that publicly, But the reality is 437 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: is that this does need to be decided and the 438 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: impast broken by the Brits is critically important in this regard, 439 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: and Germany and others have to follow suit because the 440 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: reality is this war cannot continue like this in the spring. 441 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: There's got to be a break. The Ukrainians are telling 442 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: us how they can break this, and that is going 443 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: to require action. And so I think behind the scenes, 444 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: the Biden administration is certainly working towards this, although I'm 445 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: not sure it's something they should be talking about negotiating publicly. 446 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: There's a new defense minister that's coming in in Germany, UH, 447 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: which is important following a high profile resignation. You wonder 448 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 1: Rick if that gets the gears turning as well. He's 449 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: going to be meeting later this week, an important meeting 450 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: on Friday with our own Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin. Yeah, 451 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: this is UH. We're running up to a big NATO meeting. 452 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: And so you see the positioning that all these governments 453 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: are taking UH. And this is really critical because, as 454 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: Genie points out, you know, this could be an inflection 455 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: point in the war in Ukraine and and and you 456 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: can tell just by the public comments by these world leaders, 457 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: both defense ministers and and and UH presidents and prime 458 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: ministers that UH, they see this as a critical juncture. 459 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean even um uh, you know, 460 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: major Milly, who are General Milly who um you know, 461 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: actually met with his counterpart just you know, uh this 462 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: week to um to talk about his counterpart from the Ukraine, 463 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: to talk about what their needs are on the battle 464 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: ground itself is just a lead up to big decisions 465 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: being made. And I do think the Germans are probably 466 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: gonna hold their fire literally, uh and until the NATO 467 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: meeting and make their splash if they do make a 468 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: decision to to put more equipment to work. So I 469 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: think all these European countries have bandoned together. I mean, 470 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: kudos to them, right, and we never thought that NATO 471 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: would respond in the way it has, uh increase in 472 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: in military spending like Germany has done, uh, Britain, um, 473 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, uh new members in NATO. It's it actually 474 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: really does give you confidence that big bullies like Russia 475 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: can't get away with their tactics. Well that's right then again, Uh, 476 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: we are coming up on a year. We're gonna be 477 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: marking the first anniversary of this war. Genie in the Boy. 478 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: The conversation that we're having here does not make it 479 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: sound like it's gonna end anytime soon. Yeah, And I 480 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: think that is one of the critical reasons why they 481 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: really need to move forward in terms of getting Ukraine 482 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: what it needs. I mean, we have been having this 483 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: conversation has so many people for so long now, and 484 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: the reality is a stalemate. Come the spring is in 485 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: nobody's interest, and so they've got to give Ukraine what 486 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: it needs. Ukraine has proven that it can take this 487 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: fight to Russia if it has the proper equipment, and 488 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: that is what we have an obligation to supply to it, 489 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: so that a year from now we're not sitting here 490 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: in the same position, or more importantly, Ukraine is not 491 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: sitting there in the same position, and this could move 492 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: to a some kind of conclusion. Fascinating conversation. As always, 493 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: Rick and Genie, thank you, and Nick Wadhams as well 494 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: from our Washington d C Bureau. This is Bloomberg so 495 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: long with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. We still do 496 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: not know exactly what deals, all the deals struck behind 497 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: the scenes when Kevin McCarthy was working to become speaker, 498 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 1: but we did learn of one over the weekend over 499 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: the debt limit, not how to raise it, but a 500 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: contingency plan in case we actually hit the ceiling. The 501 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: Washington Post reports the plan still preliminary in terms of 502 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: it's being drafted and detailed. Almost certain. McCall on the 503 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: Treasury Department to keep making interest paiments on debt, but 504 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: would call on the Biden administration to make only the 505 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: most critical federal payments if in fact we got to 506 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: this point. Prioritizing spending, something that Karine Jean Pierre, the 507 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: Press secretary at the White House, uh did not need 508 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: to be asked about today, was part of her opening remarks. Listen, 509 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: the so called prioritization scheme makes Republicans priorities pretty clear, 510 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: crystal clear, if I may add, they want to put 511 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: wealthy bond holders over ordinary Americans who want safe foods, 512 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: safe skies, safe communities, and secure borders. And it does not. 513 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: It does nothing, absolutely nothing to change the fact that 514 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: failing to deal with the debt limit would cause economic catastrophe. 515 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: A prioritization scheme, she calls it. Let's reassemble the panels. 516 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: Jeannie Chanzano and Rick Davis are here. Uh, this is 517 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: a new wrinkle on the whole debt ceiling conversation. Uh here, Genie, 518 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's if it's an if it's 519 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: something that could become law, they would have to pass 520 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: this uh in the House. I don't know that would 521 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: ever go anywhere, but it certainly is giving the White 522 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: House fodder UH as they try to stare down Republicans 523 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: on this issue. It is and and you know, to 524 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: your point, it is, there are so many questions about 525 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: whether this can actually even be done. We're hearing that 526 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: there was, you know, talk of doing it. But can 527 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: the Treasury actually prioritize and pay only some bills that 528 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: you know, some of your bills versus others, And then 529 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: how would they do that and which ones would be paid? 530 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: And of course, to your point and the reason the 531 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: Press Secretary was talking about it today, it raises real challenges. 532 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is the debt ceiling needs to 533 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: either be suspended or lifted, or we need to get 534 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: rid of it all together. You simply cannot default on 535 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: the debt or say we're only going to pay certain parts, 536 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: you know, certain bills. And Kevin McCarthy has to take 537 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: responsibility for that, and he's going to keep seeing this 538 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: push from the White House on this untiling unless he does. 539 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: House Republicans, according to the post Rick uh may also 540 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: stipulate the Treasury Department continue making payments on Social Security, Medicare, 541 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: and veterans benefits. It's it's the agencies she's talking about. 542 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: The f A A you know, take grab, grab one 543 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: if you want. That apparently would not be part of 544 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: this plan. Is this real or is just just to 545 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: get people like us talking? And I think it's really gamesmanship. 546 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: I mean, could you imagine to fall out if the 547 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: government makes a uniladder decision before the debt ceiling does hit, 548 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: that they're gonna just stop writing checks. Um, they're assuming 549 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: that the debt ceiling is not going to be done, 550 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, in time, and that we go into a default. So, 551 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a game. I think they're they're 552 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: they're sounding a little bit desperate over at the White House. 553 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Kevin McCarthy walks into a press 554 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: conference and says, hey, I want to have a conversation 555 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: with the President and the other Senate leaders about how 556 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: we solve this problem before it happens. Well, most normal 557 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: people think, oh, that sounds reasonable, and then the President's responses, 558 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: I'm not meeting with that guy. Um, that doesn't sound 559 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: like a productive outcome for the White House this week, 560 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: and then they come up with this gimmick, which would 561 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: be to try and force the events of a default 562 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: onto Congress months before there actually is one. Um. You know, 563 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: I gotta believe this is advantage McCarthy. I mean, the 564 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: idea that that somehow nobody wants to talk about this 565 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: until the last minute makes no sense. And you wonder why. 566 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: The Aidelman Trust Barometer says that the government officials are 567 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: so you know, much in disdain, held in disdain because 568 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: these are the kind of games that people they will 569 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: see some of this in their their living rooms tonight, 570 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: in the news, they'll talk about it, you know, and 571 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: at work tomorrow, and and and and every business, every 572 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: family has to figure out ways of paying their bills, 573 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: and and they can't figure out the people of America 574 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: why Congress can't do the same thing. It's really not 575 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: as hard as everybody's making it out to be. I 576 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: would say, the real question, McCarthy is is he just 577 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: posturing or is he really, you know, prepared to sit 578 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: down and talk, And if so, why doesn't he present 579 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: a plan that he would like to get done. I 580 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: know he's got a few members who prefer that he 581 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: not even get into this with the Biden administration. But 582 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: the White House lion, Genie is We've played for you 583 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: repeatedly from Karine and Jean Pierre, even in the last week. 584 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: No negotiating, We are not negotiating. She said it more 585 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: times than I could count again in today's briefing, And 586 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: and it's only January. Is that the right line for 587 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: the White House to take? You know, it's I don't 588 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: think it's the right line for them to take that 589 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: they're not going to negotiate. What I would suggest that 590 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: they say, not that they care, is that we will 591 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: not let the United States go into default. So we 592 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: will address this issue however we can. We will work 593 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: across the aisle. I mean that was after all, Joe 594 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: Biden's selling point at through all these campaigns has been 595 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: he can work across the aisle. That said, politically, they 596 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: do believe this works for them, because let's not forget. 597 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: If Republicans decide that they're going to cap or freeze, 598 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: they are going to be responsible for dramatic cuts to 599 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: defense and or discretionary spending of things like Social Security 600 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: and medicaid, and Democrats want them to go there politically 601 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: because they feel that's going to help them in twenty four. 602 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of gamesmanship on both sides of this. 603 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: The problem is they're playing with all of our fiscal 604 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: and economic lives. And I am not as confident as 605 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: some people seem to be that this is going to 606 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: be resolved, Nor do I believe that Kevin McCarthy can 607 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: do it unilaterally on behalf of Republicans who are very 608 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: clearly saying that they don't want him working with Democrats. 609 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: They apparently, according to this report, left details of the 610 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: plan unsettled in the initial agreement. Rick, reality check here, 611 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: is there any chance this actually becomes law? And if not, 612 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: this is a non factor? Right? Yeah, I can't imagine 613 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: this becoming law, making it a non factor. It's a 614 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: negotiating emloy early on, I would say the bright scene, 615 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: the bright spot in in in today's discussions is people 616 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: like Brian Fitzpatrick, you know, a reasonable problem solving Caucus 617 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: member uh said, look, I'm committed to there being no default. 618 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: If we have to work out a deal with Democrats, 619 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: will figure out a way to do that. And so 620 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: even though it looks like a stronghand by Kevin McCarthy, 621 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: he's got a caucus you know, that's behind him to 622 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: try and get something for this um. If it doesn't 623 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: look like something like that's going to happen, it wouldn't 624 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: surprise me that a coalition of Republicans and the Democrats, 625 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: you know, can pass the debt limit and then McCarthy 626 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: has left hanging out there with nothing. So it's it's 627 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: it's dangerous game. It's all posturing right now. As you 628 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: pointed out, Joe, it's it's relatively or at least only January, 629 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: but we're gonna see this every single day between now 630 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: and June. Yeah, worked, we got what we've got nine 631 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: months of talking about this. What are we gonna hit 632 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: this thing in September, Gennie. One thing that Kevin McCarthy 633 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: also said, and he said it very quickly and kind 634 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: of uh quietly, kind of mumble, the words that he's 635 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: going to be giving George Santos or his party will 636 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: a committee assignment. He will be in fact allowed to 637 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: serve on committees. Are you surprised to hear it? I 638 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: am not surprised to hear it, but you know, I 639 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: don't think Kevin McCarthy feels like he has much of 640 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: a choice at this point. But boy, you know, this 641 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: is somebody who is going to have access to top 642 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,479 Speaker 1: secret information as a member of Congress and a member 643 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: of a committee. I think it is a dangerous game 644 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: given what we're hearing. And just to follow up on 645 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: Rick's point, watch for a discharge petition to come from 646 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: Democrats and moderate Republicans on this debt ceiling if they 647 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: can figure out a way to work together and get 648 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: that to the floor. And I think that would be 649 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: a gift, by the way, to Kevin McCarthy, because he 650 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: wouldn't just be able to tell Republicans, Hey, I tried 651 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 1: my best, but they got around me. You know, a 652 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: committee on small business? Rick, what do you think plump 653 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: spot Yeah, maybe even in the affairs even though there 654 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,479 Speaker 1: are no tribes in his district. But uh, you know, yeah, 655 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's a I think it's a 656 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: legitimate thing to say you gotta put him on a 657 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: committee until other is the Ethics Committee says he can't serve. 658 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: President Biden may have given us a glimpse of his 659 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: re election speech. It's next on Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg, 660 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: So long with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden 661 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: delivered the sermon that Ebany'ser Baptist Church Sunday in Atlanta 662 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: and spoke again yesterday the National Action Networks Martin Luther 663 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: King Day breakfast here in Washington. While the two speeches 664 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: had very different tones are different kind of environment, different audience, 665 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: they carried similar themes, many of which we have been 666 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: hearing from Biden this past year around the country. That 667 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: sound a lot like the foundation for what maybe his 668 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: re election campaign. Listen at this inflection point, we know 669 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: there's a lot of work he has to continue on 670 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: economic justice, civil rights, voting rights. I'm protecting our democracy 671 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: and I remember and our job is to redeem the 672 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: soul of America. The soul of America. It's in all 673 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: of his speeches, right. That was that Ebeneezer on Sunday. 674 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: He was more animated, uh in the speech on MLK 675 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: Day at the breakfast. Let's reassemble the panel for a 676 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,760 Speaker 1: couple of thoughts on this. Genie Schanzano and Rick Davis 677 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: or whe us Genie. Some folks have suggested that we 678 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: might be talking about a re election campaign in the 679 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: near future if it were not for this this classified 680 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: documents mess, which amazingly we have not mentioned yet in 681 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: fifty six minutes. I don't think. But here we are now, 682 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: and you wonder if if this is a president who's 683 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: who's going through the motions here, working through his thoughts, 684 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: that will in fact be the foundation of a re 685 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: election campaign, maybe just a little bit later than some thought. Yeah, 686 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, I think you're right. I was listening to 687 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: both of the speeches, and you know, he was taking 688 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 1: a victory lap on what he's accomplished. He was attacking 689 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,839 Speaker 1: the Republican into your point, This whole sort of theme 690 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: of redeem the soul of America seems to be sort 691 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: of the you know, early stages of a campaign. So 692 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: you know, we we expect he will announce, and I 693 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: I do think that the scandal has, you know, maybe 694 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: put that off a bit longer than they wanted. But 695 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: I'll tell you, I wish he would come to New 696 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: York and listen to Democrats in New York where Democrats 697 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: did very badly in the mid term, because one thing 698 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: I think he needs to add is crime. Democrats are 699 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: on defense on crime. It hurt him badly in New 700 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: York and across other parts of this country. He's got 701 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: to wrap his head around crime. And I was disappointed 702 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: not to hear more about it in either speech. And 703 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: that's something that New York Democrats at least have had 704 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 1: to wake up to after the big losses in the 705 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: mid term. Is that something that works its way into 706 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: this speech, Rick, because it looks like he's got some 707 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: time to think about it. Yeah, I mean, you know, look, 708 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 1: his last State of the Union had a big pitch 709 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: on crime. I think he gets it, probably better than 710 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: the New York Democrats have clearly. But um, but I 711 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: do think it's a order. You know, you point out 712 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: a much broader overarching theme. You know, this idea that 713 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: America's democracy is at risk. Right, We've just gotten through 714 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,839 Speaker 1: two successful elections, and yet our democracy is still at risk. 715 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: Um and and and we know the reasons why. But 716 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: it is interesting that will this play as well in 717 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: as it did potentially in two which no question uh 718 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: democracy issues were on the ballot and Democrats successfully navigated them. Um. 719 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 1: That being said, he has a host of economic challenges 720 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: ahead of him. I don't think anybody's underestimating the importance 721 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 1: of those two voters, and yet his speeches are almost 722 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: void of meeting those economic challenges for working class Americans. 723 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 1: And that's the part that I'm actually a little bit 724 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:56,320 Speaker 1: surprised about, because nobody's in the clear. There's still high inflation, 725 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: recessions are still being expected. Um uh. Everybody around the 726 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 1: world is bracing for this year's economic turmoil, and he's 727 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: not having that conversation with American people, nor has he 728 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: pretty much for the most to last year either. Uh. 729 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: And so I'm not sure elections are still primarily the 730 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: economy stupid, right, And and I'll be interested to see 731 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: when he starts to walk out an economic plan for 732 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: this year. So clearly neither of our panelists here on 733 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 1: sound On think that democracy versus autocracy is at least 734 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: in itself a winning formula. We'll continue this conversation tomorrow. 735 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: Sound On brought to you by Innovation Refunds. This is 736 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: your daily reminder from Innovation Refunds. It's time to take 737 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: advantage of the newly extended employee retention credit. Innovation Refunds 738 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: has helped small and medium sized business has impacted by 739 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: COVID claim over two billion dollars in refunds standing by 740 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: to help your business get back the money it may 741 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: be eligible to receive. Get refunds dot com